Great Britain's Debate

[Guest guest]

Dear Shayn,

 

Thanks for the excellent input. Indeed, the UK 16° Virgo rising chart

shows the situation is not a very easy one for the country or the

government of Tony Blair. This chart has shown good results in recent

years to explain events in Britain and served as the basis of some

accurate predictions. This particular issue, upgrading submarines

carrying the Trident nuclear missiles, seems to have been one of

national interest concerning a defense related matter, with most party

members voting against party lines.

 

I add some elements for discussion.

 

Ma/Ra period is operating

* Transit L1 Mercury in H6 is now opposite natal L6 Saturn in H12,

indicating the propensity for conflict

 

* Transit L12 Sun was in H6 but today passed into H7, coincident with

the settling of this particular conflictual matter

* Transit Ketu in H12 aspects natal L12 Sun in H12 explaining the

difficulty for the government

 

* Natal Rahu in H7 aspects transit L6 Saturn in H11

* Natal Rahu in H7 aspects transit L4 Jupiter in H3

This could explain manipulations involving the political opposition,

to secure the votes

 

* Transit Ketu in H12 aspect natal L8 Mars in H8

* Transit L8 Mars in H5 aspects transit Ketu in H12

* Transit L8 Mars in H5 aspects natal L8 Mars in H8

The last three aspects may explain the importance of nuclear energy or

explosives and submarines in the debate.

 

Best wishes,

 

Thor

 

Trident plan wins Commons support

BBC - Wednesday, 14 March 2007, 21:43 GMT

The government has won Commons support for plans to renew the UK's

nuclear submarine system, despite a large rebellion by Labour MPs.

Tony Blair had said it was " essential " the UK began the £20bn plan to

renew Trident as soon as possible. After six hours of debate, 409 MPs

supported the proposals, and 161 were against - a majority of 248.

Earlier 413 MPs had rejected a bid to delay the decision, with 95

Labour rebels among 167 MPs wanting a delay. There were 16 former

ministers, including four ex-Cabinet members. On the government's

motion to proceed with renewal there were 88 Labour rebels. Between

£15bn and £20bn would be spent on new submarines to carry the Trident

missiles. The fleet would take 17 years to develop and build, and

would then last until about 2050. Defence minister Adam Ingram,

speaking after the vote, said he had heard some " disgraceful " speeches

from Labour rebels, but it had been a " strong and healthy " debate. It

was about us doing what we believed to be the right thing, rather than

supporting the government. He dismissed any suggestion that the party

was lacking unity, saying " this is a debate for the nation, not the

Labour party " . Conservative defence spokesman Liam Fox said the plan

was a " sound, sensible " policy that would ensure the UK would not be

subject to " nuclear blackmail " from other states. " It was about us

doing what we believed to be the right thing, rather than supporting

the government, " Mr Fox said. Liberal Democrat leader Sir Menzies

Campbell, who voted for the amendment, said: " The government's got its

way, but it's a humiliation for the prime minister that on a policy to

which he has attached his own personal reputation he is unable to

carry the House of Commons without the votes of the Conservative Party.

 

Few issues can divide Labour so instantly or comprehensively as this

one. SNP leader Alex Salmond said he believed most Scottish MPs, from

all parties, had opposed the plans - and he thought the vote would

damage Labour's chances in the upcoming Scottish elections. He said

ministers were " trying to impose on an unwilling country, nuclear

weapons of mass destruction for the next 50 years - it's just not on. "

He added: " The government have had to rely on the Conservative Party,

once again, to get an unpopular policy through. "

 

Speaking during prime minister's questions before the nuclear weapons

debate got under way, Mr Blair said: " I think it's right we take the

decision now to begin work on replacing the Trident nuclear

submarines. " I think that is essential for our security in an

uncertain world. " I believe it is important that we recognise that,

although it is impossible to predict the future, the one thing... that

is certain, is the unpredictability of it. " Conservative leader David

Cameron agreed, saying: " Replacing Britain's independent nuclear

deterrent is clearly in the national interest. The decision needs to

be taken now. " Some Labour MPs wanted an assurance that Parliament

would be able to revisit the Trident issue in the future. Mr Blair

said that was always a possibility. Back in December he told

Parliament that submarine numbers could be cut from four to three,

while the number of nuclear warheads would be cut by 20%.

 

Opening the Commons debate, Foreign Secretary Margaret Beckett said

large nuclear arsenals still existed around the world and some

countries in " unstable " regions were looking to create their own

weapons. She said: " There's the potential for a new nuclear threat to

emerge or to re-emerge. " Maintaining a nuclear deterrent remains a

premium worth paying on an insurance policy for this nation. "

 

SAMVA , " Shayn Smith " <mactunesmith wrote:

>

> Dear list members,

>

> Many lawmakers in Tony Blair's own Labour party plan to vote against

> his proposal to renew Great Britain's nuclear Trident missile program.

> However, news reports indicate that Blair will have enough support from

> the opposition Conservative Party to stave off defeat.

>

> If the UK chart of 1/1/1801 London midnight chart is correct, the

> weapons program, signified by a strong natal Mars in the 8th house, is

> under the close 70% affliction of the stationary transiting Ketu from

> the 12th house which also closely aspects leadership itself, natal

> Sun. Sun in transit is extremely weak but gains strength after March

> 20. The current subperiod is Rahu which natally aspects transiting

> Saturn, ruler of the house of disputes. I suspect the people, indicated

> by the 1st house, will join the dispute as its ruler, Mercury, passes

> through the 6th house and into its sign of debilitation these next 6

> weeks.

>

> Warm regards,

> Shayn

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Thor,

 

Good sum-up of the various factors.

 

Two points -

 

>>> Transit Ketu in H12 aspects natal L12 Sun in H12 explaining the difficulty for the government <<<

 

I think you mean Natal Sun in 4th House (not 12th).

 

>>> Transit L8 Mars in H5 aspects natal L8 Mars in H8 <<<

 

If a FM is Natally in its MT sign (e.g. Natal Mars is in Aries in this chart), then the TR FM will not harm its Natal self (i.e. TR Mars won't harm Natal Mars).

 

Best - Sateesh.

 

========

 

 

- cosmologer SAMVA Wednesday, March 14, 2007 11:15 PM Re: Great Britain's Debate

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Sateesh,

 

Thanks for the catching the typo on H4 for the natal Sun.

 

As for the impact of the FM in transit to its own placement it is my

understanding it always produces strain. However, the good sign

placement helps its own house indications.

 

Finally, could perhaps advice what is the correct

interpretation of the above matter.

 

Best wishes,

 

Thor

 

SAMVA , " Sateesh Batas " <makaras wrote:

>

> Dear Thor,

>

> Good sum-up of the various factors.

>

> Two points -

>

> >>> Transit Ketu in H12 aspects natal L12 Sun in H12 explaining the

difficulty for the government <<<

>

> I think you mean Natal Sun in 4th House (not 12th).

>

> >>> Transit L8 Mars in H5 aspects natal L8 Mars in H8 <<<

>

> If a FM is Natally in its MT sign (e.g. Natal Mars is in Aries in

this chart), then the TR FM will not harm its Natal self (i.e. TR Mars

won't harm Natal Mars).

>

> Best - Sateesh.

>

> ========

>

>

>

> -

> cosmologer

> SAMVA

> Wednesday, March 14, 2007 11:15 PM

> Re: Great Britain's Debate

>

[Guest guest]

Hello my dear Thor,

 

Strain can be due to many reasons, but in general the principle is if a FM

is Natally in its MT sign then the TR FM will not harm its Natal self.

 

Best wishes.

 

 

 

 

 

-

" cosmologer " <cosmologer

<SAMVA >

Thursday, March 15, 2007 4:57 AM

Re: Great Britain's Debate

 

 

| Dear Sateesh,

|

| Thanks for the catching the typo on H4 for the natal Sun.

|

| As for the impact of the FM in transit to its own placement it is my

| understanding it always produces strain. However, the good sign

| placement helps its own house indications.

|

| Finally, could perhaps advice what is the correct

| interpretation of the above matter.

|

| Best wishes,

|

| Thor

|

| SAMVA , " Sateesh Batas " <makaras wrote:

| >

| > Dear Thor,

| >

| > Good sum-up of the various factors.

| >

| > Two points -

| >

| > >>> Transit Ketu in H12 aspects natal L12 Sun in H12 explaining the

| difficulty for the government <<<

| >

| > I think you mean Natal Sun in 4th House (not 12th).

| >

| > >>> Transit L8 Mars in H5 aspects natal L8 Mars in H8 <<<

| >

| > If a FM is Natally in its MT sign (e.g. Natal Mars is in Aries in

| this chart), then the TR FM will not harm its Natal self (i.e. TR Mars

| won't harm Natal Mars).

| >

| > Best - Sateesh.

| >

| > ========

| >

| >

| >

| > -

| > cosmologer

| > SAMVA

| > Wednesday, March 14, 2007 11:15 PM

| > Re: Great Britain's Debate

| >

|

|

|

|

|

|

|

[Guest guest]

Dear Thor,

 

From some past discussions a couple of years back with the Professor on Satva, I clearly remember this point as coming up from him several times.

 

In the meantime, I will (try to) have a look at the SA books, as some hacker removed those old Satva posts a while back.

 

Best - Sateesh.

 

========

 

- cosmologer

SAMVA

Wednesday, March 14, 2007 11:27 PM

Re: Great Britain's Debate

 

 

Dear Sateesh,As for the impact of the FM in transit to its own placement it is myunderstanding it always produces strain. However, the good signplacement helps its own house indications. Finally, could perhaps advice what is the correctinterpretation of the above matter.

..

[Guest guest]

Dear Professor,

 

If the example situation was - that Natal Mars (in Aries) is casting say its 4th or 8th aspect (i.e. non-mutual) on to TR Mars (who would not be in Aries) -

 

- would Natal Mars in that case harm the TR Mars?

 

As TR Mars would NOT be in its MT sign, even though Natal Mars would be.

 

Many thanks - Sateesh.

 

=========

 

 

- siha

SAMVA

Wednesday, March 14, 2007 11:33 PM

Re: Re: Great Britain's Debate

 

 

Hello my dear Thor,Strain can be due to many reasons, but in general the principle is if a FM is Natally in its MT sign then the TR FM will not harm its Natal self.Best wishes.- "cosmologer" <cosmologer ><SAMVA >Thursday, March 15, 2007 4:57 AM Re: Great Britain's Debate| Dear Sateesh,|| Thanks for the catching the typo on H4 for the natal Sun.|| As for the impact of the FM in transit to its own placement it is my| understanding it always produces strain. However, the good sign| placement helps its own house indications.|| Finally, could perhaps advice what is the correct| interpretation of the above matter.|| Best wishes,|| Thor|| SAMVA , "Sateesh Batas" <makaras wrote:| >| > Dear Thor,| >| > Good sum-up of the various factors.| >| > Two points -| >| > >>> Transit Ketu in H12 aspects natal L12 Sun in H12 explaining the| difficulty for the government <<<| >| > I think you mean Natal Sun in 4th House (not 12th).| >| > >>> Transit L8 Mars in H5 aspects natal L8 Mars in H8 <<<| >| > If a FM is Natally in its MT sign (e.g. Natal Mars is in Aries in| this chart), then the TR FM will not harm its Natal self (i.e. TR Mars| won't harm Natal Mars).| >| > Best - Sateesh.| >| > ========| >| >| >| > - | > cosmologer| > SAMVA | > Wednesday, March 14, 2007 11:15 PM| > Re: Great Britain's Debate| >|||||||

[Guest guest]

Dear Thor,

 

An additional point to your two very valid remarks -

 

* Transit Ketu in H12 aspect natal L8 Mars in H8 * Transit L8 Mars in H5 aspects transit Ketu in H12

is the 5th-aspect of Natal Ketu (at 22* Virgo in Lagna) to TR Mars (at 18* Capricorn in 5th).

 

Further (although not yet for a few days), 8th Lord TR Mars is soon going to come into a 5* opposition with 6th Lord RX Saturn (in Cancer).

 

Best - Sateesh.

 

========

 

- cosmologer

SAMVA

Wednesday, March 14, 2007 11:15 PM

Re: Great Britain's Debate

 

 

Dear Shayn,Thanks for the excellent input. Indeed, the UK 16° Virgo rising chartshows the situation is not a very easy one for the country or thegovernment of Tony Blair. This chart has shown good results in recentyears to explain events in Britain and served as the basis of someaccurate predictions. This particular issue, upgrading submarinescarrying the Trident nuclear missiles, seems to have been one ofnational interest concerning a defense related matter, with most partymembers voting against party lines. I add some elements for discussion.Ma/Ra period is operating* Transit L1 Mercury in H6 is now opposite natal L6 Saturn in H12,indicating the propensity for conflict* Transit L12 Sun was in H6 but today passed into H7, coincident withthe settling of this particular conflictual matter* Transit Ketu in H12 aspects natal L12 Sun in H12 explaining thedifficulty for the government* Natal Rahu in H7 aspects transit L6 Saturn in H11* Natal Rahu in H7 aspects transit L4 Jupiter in H3This could explain manipulations involving the political opposition,to secure the votes* Transit Ketu in H12 aspect natal L8 Mars in H8 * Transit L8 Mars in H5 aspects transit Ketu in H12* Transit L8 Mars in H5 aspects natal L8 Mars in H8The last three aspects may explain the importance of nuclear energy orexplosives and submarines in the debate.Best wishes,Thor Trident plan wins Commons supportBBC - Wednesday, 14 March 2007, 21:43 GMTThe government has won Commons support for plans to renew the UK'snuclear submarine system, despite a large rebellion by Labour MPs.Tony Blair had said it was "essential" the UK began the £20bn plan torenew Trident as soon as possible. After six hours of debate, 409 MPssupported the proposals, and 161 were against - a majority of 248.Earlier 413 MPs had rejected a bid to delay the decision, with 95Labour rebels among 167 MPs wanting a delay. There were 16 formerministers, including four ex-Cabinet members. On the government'smotion to proceed with renewal there were 88 Labour rebels. Between£15bn and £20bn would be spent on new submarines to carry the Tridentmissiles. The fleet would take 17 years to develop and build, andwould then last until about 2050. Defence minister Adam Ingram,speaking after the vote, said he had heard some "disgraceful" speechesfrom Labour rebels, but it had been a "strong and healthy" debate. Itwas about us doing what we believed to be the right thing, rather thansupporting the government. He dismissed any suggestion that the partywas lacking unity, saying "this is a debate for the nation, not theLabour party". Conservative defence spokesman Liam Fox said the planwas a "sound, sensible" policy that would ensure the UK would not besubject to "nuclear blackmail" from other states. "It was about usdoing what we believed to be the right thing, rather than supportingthe government," Mr Fox said. Liberal Democrat leader Sir MenziesCampbell, who voted for the amendment, said: "The government's got itsway, but it's a humiliation for the prime minister that on a policy towhich he has attached his own personal reputation he is unable tocarry the House of Commons without the votes of the Conservative Party. Few issues can divide Labour so instantly or comprehensively as thisone. SNP leader Alex Salmond said he believed most Scottish MPs, fromall parties, had opposed the plans - and he thought the vote woulddamage Labour's chances in the upcoming Scottish elections. He saidministers were "trying to impose on an unwilling country, nuclearweapons of mass destruction for the next 50 years - it's just not on."He added: "The government have had to rely on the Conservative Party,once again, to get an unpopular policy through."Speaking during prime minister's questions before the nuclear weaponsdebate got under way, Mr Blair said: "I think it's right we take thedecision now to begin work on replacing the Trident nuclearsubmarines. "I think that is essential for our security in anuncertain world. "I believe it is important that we recognise that,although it is impossible to predict the future, the one thing... thatis certain, is the unpredictability of it." Conservative leader DavidCameron agreed, saying: "Replacing Britain's independent nucleardeterrent is clearly in the national interest. The decision needs tobe taken now." Some Labour MPs wanted an assurance that Parliamentwould be able to revisit the Trident issue in the future. Mr Blairsaid that was always a possibility. Back in December he toldParliament that submarine numbers could be cut from four to three,while the number of nuclear warheads would be cut by 20%.Opening the Commons debate, Foreign Secretary Margaret Beckett saidlarge nuclear arsenals still existed around the world and somecountries in "unstable" regions were looking to create their ownweapons. She said: "There's the potential for a new nuclear threat toemerge or to re-emerge. "Maintaining a nuclear deterrent remains apremium worth paying on an insurance policy for this nation." SAMVA , "Shayn Smith" <mactunesmith wrote:>> Dear list members,> > Many lawmakers in Tony Blair's own Labour party plan to vote against > his proposal to renew Great Britain's nuclear Trident missile program. > However, news reports indicate that Blair will have enough support from > the opposition Conservative Party to stave off defeat.> > If the UK chart of 1/1/1801 London midnight chart is correct, the > weapons program, signified by a strong natal Mars in the 8th house, is > under the close 70% affliction of the stationary transiting Ketu from > the 12th house which also closely aspects leadership itself, natal > Sun. Sun in transit is extremely weak but gains strength after March > 20. The current subperiod is Rahu which natally aspects transiting > Saturn, ruler of the house of disputes. I suspect the people, indicated > by the 1st house, will join the dispute as its ruler, Mercury, passes > through the 6th house and into its sign of debilitation these next 6 > weeks.> > Warm regards,> Shayn>

[Guest guest]

Hello dear Sateesh, Yes. Best wishes.

 

-

Sateesh Batas

SAMVA

Thursday, March 15, 2007 5:08 AM

Re: Re: Great Britain's Debate

 

 

Dear Professor,

 

If the example situation was - that Natal Mars (in Aries) is casting say its 4th or 8th aspect (i.e. non-mutual) on to TR Mars (who would not be in Aries) -

 

- would Natal Mars in that case harm the TR Mars?

 

As TR Mars would NOT be in its MT sign, even though Natal Mars would be.

 

Many thanks - Sateesh.

 

=========

 

 

- siha

SAMVA

Wednesday, March 14, 2007 11:33 PM

Re: Re: Great Britain's Debate

 

 

Hello my dear Thor,Strain can be due to many reasons, but in general the principle is if a FM is Natally in its MT sign then the TR FM will not harm its Natal self.Best wishes.- "cosmologer" <cosmologer ><SAMVA >Thursday, March 15, 2007 4:57 AM Re: Great Britain's Debate| Dear Sateesh,|| Thanks for the catching the typo on H4 for the natal Sun.|| As for the impact of the FM in transit to its own placement it is my| understanding it always produces strain. However, the good sign| placement helps its own house indications.|| Finally, could perhaps advice what is the correct| interpretation of the above matter.|| Best wishes,|| Thor|| SAMVA , "Sateesh Batas" <makaras wrote:| >| > Dear Thor,| >| > Good sum-up of the various factors.| >| > Two points -| >| > >>> Transit Ketu in H12 aspects natal L12 Sun in H12 explaining the| difficulty for the government <<<| >| > I think you mean Natal Sun in 4th House (not 12th).| >| > >>> Transit L8 Mars in H5 aspects natal L8 Mars in H8 <<<| >| > If a FM is Natally in its MT sign (e.g. Natal Mars is in Aries in| this chart), then the TR FM will not harm its Natal self (i.e. TR Mars| won't harm Natal Mars).| >| > Best - Sateesh.| >| > ========| >| >| >| > - | > cosmologer| > SAMVA | > Wednesday, March 14, 2007 11:15 PM| > Re: Great Britain's Debate| >|||||||