Guest guest Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 Dear Professor, Thor (and list), On the issue of large population, how do we examine it in a chart? Please use this Sc chart as an example. Best regards, Vyas Munidas - " cosmologer " <cosmologer <SAMVA > Tuesday, March 20, 2007 5:44 PM Re: China, Sc chart exploration Dear Vyas, You are welcome. Good to hear, the work to uncover the authentic chart for China is exciting. Best wishes, Thor SAMVA , " Vyas Munidas " <muni> wrote: > > Dear Thor, > > Thanks for the suggestions. Yes, the game plan has been to examine other > TSEs in this chart and then examine in the same fashion, the other > ascendants I have pointed to as probable. > > Previously, I have looked at all the major natural disasters in the Sc chart > (and other ascendants) and this is the main reason why I have started here. > What's left is to present it here in better detail; perhaps I will find > things that I have missed gaining a quick impression. > > > Best regards, > > Vyas Munidas > > > - > " cosmologer " <cosmologer > <SAMVA > > Tuesday, March 20, 2007 2:25 PM > Re: China, Sc chart exploration > > > Dear Vyas, > > The analysis by you could possibly explain the event. That said, I > offer some additional suggestions for your consideration. > > The first has to do with nature of the event. If the events from April > 15 to June 3 were unfolding in a disjointed or non-thematic fashion, > then it make sense to use a sequence of different afflictions to > explain the evolving tension. However, if a clear theme was present in > the unfolding events, it would seem logical to look for a salient > reason such as an affliction by a slow moving FM planet to a sensitive > placement in the chart. > > The second has to do with methodological approach to testing charts. > In order to get a feel for how plausible any chart is, a good > way forward is to check several important events. This gives a quick > feel for how significant events size up in the charts in terms of > period and transit dynamics. This approach proved very useful in > testing the SAMVA USA chart against historical events. Importantly, if > an event turns up that doesn't offer a good match with the transit and > period dynamics, it should be taken as evidence concerning the > validity of the chart. Several such pieces of evidence could be > helpful to rule out a given chart. If no such blemishes appear, deeper > analysis is warranted. > > Finally, when a chart passes such back-testing the next stage is to > make predictions. Only after a chart has successfully passed such > demanding tests, should it be considered authentic. > > Best wishes, > > Thor > > SAMVA , " Vyas Munidas " <munidas@> wrote: > > > > Dear Thor, > > > > That's a really good point. Wikipedia says protests started around > April > > 15th. > > > > Let's examine the period from start to end to see if there are other > > elements of transit > > - Ra/Ra period, natal Ra close to the MEP H5 > > - On that day, FM Mars was at 28 degrees H7 afflicting Ju and na Ju, > H1, H2 > > (where LO4 transits), Mo (natal dis of Ma and conj Sa) conj Ke > > - Su, FM Ve, Me in Aries, H6. Me exactly opposite natal Ve; Ke-Ve > begins > > aspect within 5 deg; Su, natal dis of LO4, Sa, in utter infancy. > > - by the 19th Apr Ve is also afflicting na Ve, Su is within 3 > degrees of Ke; > > LO6 is now badly placed in extreme infancy, still afflicting na Ju. > It also > > afflicts na Su. > > - May 4 Ve is affflicting H6/12; Ma in 8H is under the influence of Ra > > within 2 degrees, but separating. > > - by 14th May, Su transits into 7H, Ve has been afflicting Me for a > few days > > and is now exact; Ju receives the close aspect of natal Ke > > - by the 20th, Ve-Ju is within that 2 degree orb and na-Ke-Ju is > closer; Ma > > begins to afflict natal Ke within 5 degrees (Gov't declares martial law) > > - by 30th Ve is in extreme infancy in 8H now afflicted by Mars within 2 > > degrees. Ve receives the close asp of tr Ra. Ju is afflicted by na > Ke within > > 1 degree. > > - By the 3rd June the situation is as described and we must also add > the > > element of combustion experienced for some weeks prior. June 4, it > continued > > and ended abruptly. > > > > One more important point, na Ju is weak and won't exceed its natal > strength. > > So when slow moving LO4 transits H2 and there are adverse > combinations in > > succession, in such a subperiod, this does not surprise in the > least. Looks > > to me like one punch after the next ending in a knock-out vs the > constant > > squeeze till passing out. > > > > Your thoughts on this please? > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > Vyas Munidas > > > > > > - > > " cosmologer " <cosmologer@> > > <SAMVA > > > Tuesday, March 20, 2007 3:44 AM > > Re: China, Sc chart exploration > > > > > > Dear Vyas, > > > > Thanks for this contribution. It is promising. However, there is one > > observation. The transit configurations lack a stationary contact > > involving a slow moving planet. For instance, L2 Jupiter was moving at > > normal speed through the aspect of the natal nodes at the time. In my > > experience, an event that produces significant strain for a period of > > time and has deep impact needs such a contact in the chart. Further > > such tests may resolve the doubts. > > > > By comparison, Saturn was at 19° Sagittarius and had been stationary > > for some months at 20° prior to the event. In this chart, however, it > > is not making any natal significant contact. > > > > Best wishes, > > > > Thor > > > > > > SAMVA , " Vyas Munidas " <munidas@> wrote: > > > > > > Please ignore the last image, included here is one showing the > relevant > > > transits > > > > > > The chart data can be seen in the image file. It's also included > > here for > > > convenience: > > > 21/09/1949 13:00, Peking, China, Sc 27:51 > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > Vyas Munidas > > > > > > > > > - > > > " Vyas Munidas " <munidas@> > > > <SAMVA > > > > Tuesday, March 20, 2007 2:51 AM > > > China, Sc chart exploration > > > > > > > > > Dear List, > > > > > > Let's further the discussion on the China chart. First up is the Sc > > chart. > > > We'll first look at the natal potential and then examine a significant > > > event, more will follow. > > > > > > Natal potential: > > > > > > Let's re-iterate the Professor's opinion, " This merits trial. The > > weakness > > > of Jupiter and close affliction to Venus explains the poor status of > > people > > > for quite long. Influence of Mercury on the house of income indicates > > > success through commerce and trading. " > > > > > > (Earlier points on China traits) > > > > > > Strong and aggressive policies (6H influences) > > > Above average incidents of natural disasters (Ve, H4 issues) > > > Manufacturing based economy (Sa) > > > Largest account surplus in the world, 180 Bln > > > Largest resources for hydro power generation (4H, Mo) > > > Largest population in the world > > > Over one trillion USD in FX reserves (income houses) > > > Average person lives 72 years (around 1950 it was 32 years) (1, 8, > > 12, Sa) > > > Officially atheist (est 59%) (H9, Ju, tamasic influences of Sa and Ma) > > > Average annual 9.4% GDP for the last 25 years (however, with such a > > large > > > population, GDP/person is only 1/5th of the US) > > > World's second largest R & D budget > > > Secretive nation > > > > > > (Now, seen through the chart) > > > > > > - Close influence of income and initiatives 11H lord, Me in its MTH > > close to > > > the MEP gives success in commerce and trading > > > - LO2, Ju in old age explains the poor status of the people. As it > > makes a > > > close impact, improvement is gradual. > > > - Saturn rules manufacturing in general and is conj LO9, the Moon in > > H10. > > > China has a manufacturing based economy and they export their goods, > > > maintaining the largest surplus in the world > > > - Ve is important to weather and is located in its own MTH, 12H. > > Mars LO6 > > > aspects it closely. We can expect instances of violent weather. > > Importantly, > > > Mars sits in watery Cancer. This gives violent watery weather. > > > - Me is the final dispositor of Saturn (LO4, domestic happiness) > and the > > > Moon. Me has the close impact of Ke, which produces extremes in > weather. > > > China has an average of 5 typhoons per year and some random, extreme > > > occurences. These shall be pointed out at a later date. > > > - Atheism is to be seen through a weak Jupiter, H9 and the impact of a > > > strong Mars and Saturn. Here Ju is weak by extreme old age. > Debilitated > > > tamasic Mars closely impacts Venus, the significator of materialistic > > > pursuits. Saturn conj Mo in H10 gives the bent of mind towards > service. > > > LO10, the spiritual planet, the Sun is located in H11 as > described; this > > > gives initiative towards gains through hard work and service. As Ju > > closely > > > impacts the 8H (mystic knowledge, research) and 10H (Mo, and Sa > > located), > > > even though in old age, it is helpful. It accounts for the Chinese > > > involvement in subtle energy sciences, research and esoteric > > philisophies. I > > > believe that the 59% atheism is justified as this chart does show some > > > spirituallity. > > > - The life span seen in this chart is seen through Ve, Sa and > > influences on > > > the 1, 8, and 12Hs. Positives are close well placed Sa-Mo, Ju-H8 > > MEP, Ve; > > > negatives are close Ma-Ve, Ra-H1 MEP. Seen comprehensively, 72 > years is > > > inline. If anyone has a link that tells of the major cause of health > > > concerns in China, please forward. > > > - Ma-Ve close aspect, shows an unwelcoming attitude towards > > outsiders and > > > foreign influences and adhering to foreign policies. It can also > > contribute > > > to wealth through foreign sources as its not close. > > > - Close conj of LO4, Sa and the Mo accounts for the largest > > resources for > > > hydro power generation > > > - Additionally, Thor has assesed this chart quickly and commented > on the > > > present situation, " China with Scorpio rising would be reserved but > > prone > > > to explode in fury. Currently, both L2 Jupiter in H1 and > > > L4 Saturn in H9 are under the afflicting aspect of Rahu at 23° 33' > > in Pisces > > > and H5. This aspect will become even closer in coming weeks. > > Important as > > > China now in Ju/Ju period and Jupiter is well placed in own sign and > > H2 but > > > very weak in old age. The transit aspect of Jupiter to Saturn is not > > helpful > > > because of the natal weakness of Jupiter in the chart. It would > > signal weak > > > wealth and status for the country. This could bring the Taiwan issue > > to the > > > fore, as L2 indicates relations with neighboring countries and L4 > > rules the > > > territories. Interestingly, L4 Saturn is conjunct L9 Moon in H10 - > > not bad > > > for fortune with territories or expansive territories and great > > heritage. > > > Also, people would generally be content and communal harmony > preserved. " > > > > > > On the population issue, I kindly request guidance on how to > examine it. > > > > > > > > > First case study: > > > > > > A key event was the Tiananmen Square massacre. You may google this > > event to > > > find > > > the details. > > > > > > Here is the analysis of the TT and a screen shot is attached: > > > > > > 3 June 1989, 22::30 - the first shootings at the Tiananmen Square > > massacre. > > > Ra/Ra period > > > Natal Ra is situated in H5; the axis forms a close association with > > all odd > > > houses. H5 rules students, emotional stability, communal harmony, > > children, > > > population, morals and values of the people etc. Natal Ke exactly > > afflicts > > > tr Ju and Mo, and is close to tr Su; all these FB planets were in > H7. H7 > > > rules bond of relationships amongst masses and business > establishments, > > > foreign affairs and agreements. Mars LO6 (conflicts), significator of > > > executions and violence, afflicts H8 (death, endings) exactly on > > this date. > > > Natal Jupiter ruling status, is afflicted by this Mars. Venus LO12 > > natally > > > afflicted by Mars, was in the afflicted 8H on this day under the exact > > > affliction of tr Rahu from the 4H. Mars also afflicted natal > > Mercury. LO4 Sa > > > was located in afflicted H2 and its Lord, Ju afflicted by na Ra. > > Putting it > > > all together, trouble to the masses and students ending in violent > > > executions resulting in loss of status of the nation. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > Vyas Munidas > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 Dear Vyas, That is a good question and the answer does not immediately present itself when looking at the chart in terms of SA. However, there may be some indications. We had discussed earlier the 4th house and lord with respect to size of the country in terms of land or territory. Favourable influences on the 4th house or lord, could explain large territory, including through the expansive influence of Jupiter. As for the size of population, if it is any parallel to what Professor Choudhry has said about reading 'height' from a natal chart, we would look for strength of 1st or 3rd houses or their lords. Jupiter and Saturn could be important influences on these houses or their lords. Also, the sign Leo has been associated with above average height when Sun is also strong in the chart. In the 27° Scorpio rising chart, there is no MT sign in H1 or H3. Moreover, Jupiter and Saturn are not influencing the said houses. Hence, the 'height' rule does not suggest the population. What we are left with is that L2 Jupiter is in own sign and on MEP of H2. Would that be sufficient? As for territory, L4 Saturn is strong and well placed in H10 closely conjunct L9 Moon. Saturn also aspects L12 Venus in H12. L2 Jupiter then aspects H10, where L4 Saturn is placed. So, there are two expansive elements influencing L4 Saturn. This could be sufficient to exaplain the above average size of the territory. I would be interested in the view of on this issue. Best wishes, Thor SAMVA , " Vyas Munidas " <muni> wrote: > > Dear Professor, Thor (and list), > > On the issue of large population, how do we examine it in a chart? Please > use this Sc chart as an example. > > > Best regards, > > Vyas Munidas > > > - > " cosmologer " <cosmologer > <SAMVA > > Tuesday, March 20, 2007 5:44 PM > Re: China, Sc chart exploration > > > Dear Vyas, > > You are welcome. > > Good to hear, the work to uncover the authentic chart for China is > exciting. > > Best wishes, > > Thor > > SAMVA , " Vyas Munidas " <munidas@> wrote: > > > > Dear Thor, > > > > Thanks for the suggestions. Yes, the game plan has been to examine > other > > TSEs in this chart and then examine in the same fashion, the other > > ascendants I have pointed to as probable. > > > > Previously, I have looked at all the major natural disasters in the > Sc chart > > (and other ascendants) and this is the main reason why I have > started here. > > What's left is to present it here in better detail; perhaps I will find > > things that I have missed gaining a quick impression. > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > Vyas Munidas > > > > > > - > > " cosmologer " <cosmologer@> > > <SAMVA > > > Tuesday, March 20, 2007 2:25 PM > > Re: China, Sc chart exploration > > > > > > Dear Vyas, > > > > The analysis by you could possibly explain the event. That said, I > > offer some additional suggestions for your consideration. > > > > The first has to do with nature of the event. If the events from April > > 15 to June 3 were unfolding in a disjointed or non-thematic fashion, > > then it make sense to use a sequence of different afflictions to > > explain the evolving tension. However, if a clear theme was present in > > the unfolding events, it would seem logical to look for a salient > > reason such as an affliction by a slow moving FM planet to a sensitive > > placement in the chart. > > > > The second has to do with methodological approach to testing charts. > > In order to get a feel for how plausible any chart is, a good > > way forward is to check several important events. This gives a quick > > feel for how significant events size up in the charts in terms of > > period and transit dynamics. This approach proved very useful in > > testing the SAMVA USA chart against historical events. Importantly, if > > an event turns up that doesn't offer a good match with the transit and > > period dynamics, it should be taken as evidence concerning the > > validity of the chart. Several such pieces of evidence could be > > helpful to rule out a given chart. If no such blemishes appear, deeper > > analysis is warranted. > > > > Finally, when a chart passes such back-testing the next stage is to > > make predictions. Only after a chart has successfully passed such > > demanding tests, should it be considered authentic. > > > > Best wishes, > > > > Thor > > > > SAMVA , " Vyas Munidas " <munidas@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Thor, > > > > > > That's a really good point. Wikipedia says protests started around > > April > > > 15th. > > > > > > Let's examine the period from start to end to see if there are other > > > elements of transit > > > - Ra/Ra period, natal Ra close to the MEP H5 > > > - On that day, FM Mars was at 28 degrees H7 afflicting Ju and na Ju, > > H1, H2 > > > (where LO4 transits), Mo (natal dis of Ma and conj Sa) conj Ke > > > - Su, FM Ve, Me in Aries, H6. Me exactly opposite natal Ve; Ke-Ve > > begins > > > aspect within 5 deg; Su, natal dis of LO4, Sa, in utter infancy. > > > - by the 19th Apr Ve is also afflicting na Ve, Su is within 3 > > degrees of Ke; > > > LO6 is now badly placed in extreme infancy, still afflicting na Ju. > > It also > > > afflicts na Su. > > > - May 4 Ve is affflicting H6/12; Ma in 8H is under the influence of Ra > > > within 2 degrees, but separating. > > > - by 14th May, Su transits into 7H, Ve has been afflicting Me for a > > few days > > > and is now exact; Ju receives the close aspect of natal Ke > > > - by the 20th, Ve-Ju is within that 2 degree orb and na-Ke-Ju is > > closer; Ma > > > begins to afflict natal Ke within 5 degrees (Gov't declares > martial law) > > > - by 30th Ve is in extreme infancy in 8H now afflicted by Mars > within 2 > > > degrees. Ve receives the close asp of tr Ra. Ju is afflicted by na > > Ke within > > > 1 degree. > > > - By the 3rd June the situation is as described and we must also add > > the > > > element of combustion experienced for some weeks prior. June 4, it > > continued > > > and ended abruptly. > > > > > > One more important point, na Ju is weak and won't exceed its natal > > strength. > > > So when slow moving LO4 transits H2 and there are adverse > > combinations in > > > succession, in such a subperiod, this does not surprise in the > > least. Looks > > > to me like one punch after the next ending in a knock-out vs the > > constant > > > squeeze till passing out. > > > > > > Your thoughts on this please? > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > Vyas Munidas > > > > > > > > > - > > > " cosmologer " <cosmologer@> > > > <SAMVA > > > > Tuesday, March 20, 2007 3:44 AM > > > Re: China, Sc chart exploration > > > > > > > > > Dear Vyas, > > > > > > Thanks for this contribution. It is promising. However, there is one > > > observation. The transit configurations lack a stationary contact > > > involving a slow moving planet. For instance, L2 Jupiter was moving at > > > normal speed through the aspect of the natal nodes at the time. In my > > > experience, an event that produces significant strain for a period of > > > time and has deep impact needs such a contact in the chart. Further > > > such tests may resolve the doubts. > > > > > > By comparison, Saturn was at 19° Sagittarius and had been stationary > > > for some months at 20° prior to the event. In this chart, however, it > > > is not making any natal significant contact. > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > Thor > > > > > > > > > SAMVA , " Vyas Munidas " <munidas@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Please ignore the last image, included here is one showing the > > relevant > > > > transits > > > > > > > > The chart data can be seen in the image file. It's also included > > > here for > > > > convenience: > > > > 21/09/1949 13:00, Peking, China, Sc 27:51 > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > Vyas Munidas > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > " Vyas Munidas " <munidas@> > > > > <SAMVA > > > > > Tuesday, March 20, 2007 2:51 AM > > > > China, Sc chart exploration > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear List, > > > > > > > > Let's further the discussion on the China chart. First up is the Sc > > > chart. > > > > We'll first look at the natal potential and then examine a > significant > > > > event, more will follow. > > > > > > > > Natal potential: > > > > > > > > Let's re-iterate the Professor's opinion, " This merits trial. The > > > weakness > > > > of Jupiter and close affliction to Venus explains the poor status of > > > people > > > > for quite long. Influence of Mercury on the house of income > indicates > > > > success through commerce and trading. " > > > > > > > > (Earlier points on China traits) > > > > > > > > Strong and aggressive policies (6H influences) > > > > Above average incidents of natural disasters (Ve, H4 issues) > > > > Manufacturing based economy (Sa) > > > > Largest account surplus in the world, 180 Bln > > > > Largest resources for hydro power generation (4H, Mo) > > > > Largest population in the world > > > > Over one trillion USD in FX reserves (income houses) > > > > Average person lives 72 years (around 1950 it was 32 years) (1, 8, > > > 12, Sa) > > > > Officially atheist (est 59%) (H9, Ju, tamasic influences of Sa > and Ma) > > > > Average annual 9.4% GDP for the last 25 years (however, with such a > > > large > > > > population, GDP/person is only 1/5th of the US) > > > > World's second largest R & D budget > > > > Secretive nation > > > > > > > > (Now, seen through the chart) > > > > > > > > - Close influence of income and initiatives 11H lord, Me in its MTH > > > close to > > > > the MEP gives success in commerce and trading > > > > - LO2, Ju in old age explains the poor status of the people. As it > > > makes a > > > > close impact, improvement is gradual. > > > > - Saturn rules manufacturing in general and is conj LO9, the Moon in > > > H10. > > > > China has a manufacturing based economy and they export their goods, > > > > maintaining the largest surplus in the world > > > > - Ve is important to weather and is located in its own MTH, 12H. > > > Mars LO6 > > > > aspects it closely. We can expect instances of violent weather. > > > Importantly, > > > > Mars sits in watery Cancer. This gives violent watery weather. > > > > - Me is the final dispositor of Saturn (LO4, domestic happiness) > > and the > > > > Moon. Me has the close impact of Ke, which produces extremes in > > weather. > > > > China has an average of 5 typhoons per year and some random, extreme > > > > occurences. These shall be pointed out at a later date. > > > > - Atheism is to be seen through a weak Jupiter, H9 and the > impact of a > > > > strong Mars and Saturn. Here Ju is weak by extreme old age. > > Debilitated > > > > tamasic Mars closely impacts Venus, the significator of > materialistic > > > > pursuits. Saturn conj Mo in H10 gives the bent of mind towards > > service. > > > > LO10, the spiritual planet, the Sun is located in H11 as > > described; this > > > > gives initiative towards gains through hard work and service. As Ju > > > closely > > > > impacts the 8H (mystic knowledge, research) and 10H (Mo, and Sa > > > located), > > > > even though in old age, it is helpful. It accounts for the Chinese > > > > involvement in subtle energy sciences, research and esoteric > > > philisophies. I > > > > believe that the 59% atheism is justified as this chart does > show some > > > > spirituallity. > > > > - The life span seen in this chart is seen through Ve, Sa and > > > influences on > > > > the 1, 8, and 12Hs. Positives are close well placed Sa-Mo, Ju-H8 > > > MEP, Ve; > > > > negatives are close Ma-Ve, Ra-H1 MEP. Seen comprehensively, 72 > > years is > > > > inline. If anyone has a link that tells of the major cause of health > > > > concerns in China, please forward. > > > > - Ma-Ve close aspect, shows an unwelcoming attitude towards > > > outsiders and > > > > foreign influences and adhering to foreign policies. It can also > > > contribute > > > > to wealth through foreign sources as its not close. > > > > - Close conj of LO4, Sa and the Mo accounts for the largest > > > resources for > > > > hydro power generation > > > > - Additionally, Thor has assesed this chart quickly and commented > > on the > > > > present situation, " China with Scorpio rising would be reserved but > > > prone > > > > to explode in fury. Currently, both L2 Jupiter in H1 and > > > > L4 Saturn in H9 are under the afflicting aspect of Rahu at 23° 33' > > > in Pisces > > > > and H5. This aspect will become even closer in coming weeks. > > > Important as > > > > China now in Ju/Ju period and Jupiter is well placed in own sign and > > > H2 but > > > > very weak in old age. The transit aspect of Jupiter to Saturn is not > > > helpful > > > > because of the natal weakness of Jupiter in the chart. It would > > > signal weak > > > > wealth and status for the country. This could bring the Taiwan issue > > > to the > > > > fore, as L2 indicates relations with neighboring countries and L4 > > > rules the > > > > territories. Interestingly, L4 Saturn is conjunct L9 Moon in H10 - > > > not bad > > > > for fortune with territories or expansive territories and great > > > heritage. > > > > Also, people would generally be content and communal harmony > > preserved. " > > > > > > > > On the population issue, I kindly request guidance on how to > > examine it. > > > > > > > > > > > > First case study: > > > > > > > > A key event was the Tiananmen Square massacre. You may google this > > > event to > > > > find > > > > the details. > > > > > > > > Here is the analysis of the TT and a screen shot is attached: > > > > > > > > 3 June 1989, 22::30 - the first shootings at the Tiananmen Square > > > massacre. > > > > Ra/Ra period > > > > Natal Ra is situated in H5; the axis forms a close association with > > > all odd > > > > houses. H5 rules students, emotional stability, communal harmony, > > > children, > > > > population, morals and values of the people etc. Natal Ke exactly > > > afflicts > > > > tr Ju and Mo, and is close to tr Su; all these FB planets were in > > H7. H7 > > > > rules bond of relationships amongst masses and business > > establishments, > > > > foreign affairs and agreements. Mars LO6 (conflicts), > significator of > > > > executions and violence, afflicts H8 (death, endings) exactly on > > > this date. > > > > Natal Jupiter ruling status, is afflicted by this Mars. Venus LO12 > > > natally > > > > afflicted by Mars, was in the afflicted 8H on this day under the > exact > > > > affliction of tr Rahu from the 4H. Mars also afflicted natal > > > Mercury. LO4 Sa > > > > was located in afflicted H2 and its Lord, Ju afflicted by na Ra. > > > Putting it > > > > all together, trouble to the masses and students ending in violent > > > > executions resulting in loss of status of the nation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > Vyas Munidas > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 Hello Thor, Population aspect is one such aspect which cannot be said with reasonable certainity. There are other aspects which are helpful for greater confidence in the chart. Let us concentrate on those. Best wishes. - " cosmologer " <cosmologer <SAMVA > Wednesday, March 21, 2007 8:44 AM Re: Professor, Thor - China population Dear Vyas, That is a good question and the answer does not immediately present itself when looking at the chart in terms of SA. However, there may be some indications. We had discussed earlier the 4th house and lord with respect to size of the country in terms of land or territory. Favourable influences on the 4th house or lord, could explain large territory, including through the expansive influence of Jupiter. As for the size of population, if it is any parallel to what Professor Choudhry has said about reading 'height' from a natal chart, we would look for strength of 1st or 3rd houses or their lords. Jupiter and Saturn could be important influences on these houses or their lords. Also, the sign Leo has been associated with above average height when Sun is also strong in the chart. In the 27° Scorpio rising chart, there is no MT sign in H1 or H3. Moreover, Jupiter and Saturn are not influencing the said houses. Hence, the 'height' rule does not suggest the population. What we are left with is that L2 Jupiter is in own sign and on MEP of H2. Would that be sufficient? As for territory, L4 Saturn is strong and well placed in H10 closely conjunct L9 Moon. Saturn also aspects L12 Venus in H12. L2 Jupiter then aspects H10, where L4 Saturn is placed. So, there are two expansive elements influencing L4 Saturn. This could be sufficient to exaplain the above average size of the territory. I would be interested in the view of on this issue. Best wishes, Thor SAMVA , " Vyas Munidas " <muni> wrote: > > Dear Professor, Thor (and list), > > On the issue of large population, how do we examine it in a chart? Please > use this Sc chart as an example. > > > Best regards, > > Vyas Munidas > > > - > " cosmologer " <cosmologer > <SAMVA > > Tuesday, March 20, 2007 5:44 PM > Re: China, Sc chart exploration > > > Dear Vyas, > > You are welcome. > > Good to hear, the work to uncover the authentic chart for China is > exciting. > > Best wishes, > > Thor > > SAMVA , " Vyas Munidas " <munidas@> wrote: > > > > Dear Thor, > > > > Thanks for the suggestions. Yes, the game plan has been to examine > other > > TSEs in this chart and then examine in the same fashion, the other > > ascendants I have pointed to as probable. > > > > Previously, I have looked at all the major natural disasters in the > Sc chart > > (and other ascendants) and this is the main reason why I have > started here. > > What's left is to present it here in better detail; perhaps I will find > > things that I have missed gaining a quick impression. > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > Vyas Munidas > > > > > > - > > " cosmologer " <cosmologer@> > > <SAMVA > > > Tuesday, March 20, 2007 2:25 PM > > Re: China, Sc chart exploration > > > > > > Dear Vyas, > > > > The analysis by you could possibly explain the event. That said, I > > offer some additional suggestions for your consideration. > > > > The first has to do with nature of the event. If the events from April > > 15 to June 3 were unfolding in a disjointed or non-thematic fashion, > > then it make sense to use a sequence of different afflictions to > > explain the evolving tension. However, if a clear theme was present in > > the unfolding events, it would seem logical to look for a salient > > reason such as an affliction by a slow moving FM planet to a sensitive > > placement in the chart. > > > > The second has to do with methodological approach to testing charts. > > In order to get a feel for how plausible any chart is, a good > > way forward is to check several important events. This gives a quick > > feel for how significant events size up in the charts in terms of > > period and transit dynamics. This approach proved very useful in > > testing the SAMVA USA chart against historical events. Importantly, if > > an event turns up that doesn't offer a good match with the transit and > > period dynamics, it should be taken as evidence concerning the > > validity of the chart. Several such pieces of evidence could be > > helpful to rule out a given chart. If no such blemishes appear, deeper > > analysis is warranted. > > > > Finally, when a chart passes such back-testing the next stage is to > > make predictions. Only after a chart has successfully passed such > > demanding tests, should it be considered authentic. > > > > Best wishes, > > > > Thor > > > > SAMVA , " Vyas Munidas " <munidas@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Thor, > > > > > > That's a really good point. Wikipedia says protests started around > > April > > > 15th. > > > > > > Let's examine the period from start to end to see if there are other > > > elements of transit > > > - Ra/Ra period, natal Ra close to the MEP H5 > > > - On that day, FM Mars was at 28 degrees H7 afflicting Ju and na Ju, > > H1, H2 > > > (where LO4 transits), Mo (natal dis of Ma and conj Sa) conj Ke > > > - Su, FM Ve, Me in Aries, H6. Me exactly opposite natal Ve; Ke-Ve > > begins > > > aspect within 5 deg; Su, natal dis of LO4, Sa, in utter infancy. > > > - by the 19th Apr Ve is also afflicting na Ve, Su is within 3 > > degrees of Ke; > > > LO6 is now badly placed in extreme infancy, still afflicting na Ju. > > It also > > > afflicts na Su. > > > - May 4 Ve is affflicting H6/12; Ma in 8H is under the influence of Ra > > > within 2 degrees, but separating. > > > - by 14th May, Su transits into 7H, Ve has been afflicting Me for a > > few days > > > and is now exact; Ju receives the close aspect of natal Ke > > > - by the 20th, Ve-Ju is within that 2 degree orb and na-Ke-Ju is > > closer; Ma > > > begins to afflict natal Ke within 5 degrees (Gov't declares > martial law) > > > - by 30th Ve is in extreme infancy in 8H now afflicted by Mars > within 2 > > > degrees. Ve receives the close asp of tr Ra. Ju is afflicted by na > > Ke within > > > 1 degree. > > > - By the 3rd June the situation is as described and we must also add > > the > > > element of combustion experienced for some weeks prior. June 4, it > > continued > > > and ended abruptly. > > > > > > One more important point, na Ju is weak and won't exceed its natal > > strength. > > > So when slow moving LO4 transits H2 and there are adverse > > combinations in > > > succession, in such a subperiod, this does not surprise in the > > least. Looks > > > to me like one punch after the next ending in a knock-out vs the > > constant > > > squeeze till passing out. > > > > > > Your thoughts on this please? > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > Vyas Munidas > > > > > > > > > - > > > " cosmologer " <cosmologer@> > > > <SAMVA > > > > Tuesday, March 20, 2007 3:44 AM > > > Re: China, Sc chart exploration > > > > > > > > > Dear Vyas, > > > > > > Thanks for this contribution. It is promising. However, there is one > > > observation. The transit configurations lack a stationary contact > > > involving a slow moving planet. For instance, L2 Jupiter was moving at > > > normal speed through the aspect of the natal nodes at the time. In my > > > experience, an event that produces significant strain for a period of > > > time and has deep impact needs such a contact in the chart. Further > > > such tests may resolve the doubts. > > > > > > By comparison, Saturn was at 19° Sagittarius and had been stationary > > > for some months at 20° prior to the event. In this chart, however, it > > > is not making any natal significant contact. > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > Thor > > > > > > > > > SAMVA , " Vyas Munidas " <munidas@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Please ignore the last image, included here is one showing the > > relevant > > > > transits > > > > > > > > The chart data can be seen in the image file. It's also included > > > here for > > > > convenience: > > > > 21/09/1949 13:00, Peking, China, Sc 27:51 > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > Vyas Munidas > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > " Vyas Munidas " <munidas@> > > > > <SAMVA > > > > > Tuesday, March 20, 2007 2:51 AM > > > > China, Sc chart exploration > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear List, > > > > > > > > Let's further the discussion on the China chart. First up is the Sc > > > chart. > > > > We'll first look at the natal potential and then examine a > significant > > > > event, more will follow. > > > > > > > > Natal potential: > > > > > > > > Let's re-iterate the Professor's opinion, " This merits trial. The > > > weakness > > > > of Jupiter and close affliction to Venus explains the poor status of > > > people > > > > for quite long. Influence of Mercury on the house of income > indicates > > > > success through commerce and trading. " > > > > > > > > (Earlier points on China traits) > > > > > > > > Strong and aggressive policies (6H influences) > > > > Above average incidents of natural disasters (Ve, H4 issues) > > > > Manufacturing based economy (Sa) > > > > Largest account surplus in the world, 180 Bln > > > > Largest resources for hydro power generation (4H, Mo) > > > > Largest population in the world > > > > Over one trillion USD in FX reserves (income houses) > > > > Average person lives 72 years (around 1950 it was 32 years) (1, 8, > > > 12, Sa) > > > > Officially atheist (est 59%) (H9, Ju, tamasic influences of Sa > and Ma) > > > > Average annual 9.4% GDP for the last 25 years (however, with such a > > > large > > > > population, GDP/person is only 1/5th of the US) > > > > World's second largest R & D budget > > > > Secretive nation > > > > > > > > (Now, seen through the chart) > > > > > > > > - Close influence of income and initiatives 11H lord, Me in its MTH > > > close to > > > > the MEP gives success in commerce and trading > > > > - LO2, Ju in old age explains the poor status of the people. As it > > > makes a > > > > close impact, improvement is gradual. > > > > - Saturn rules manufacturing in general and is conj LO9, the Moon in > > > H10. > > > > China has a manufacturing based economy and they export their goods, > > > > maintaining the largest surplus in the world > > > > - Ve is important to weather and is located in its own MTH, 12H. > > > Mars LO6 > > > > aspects it closely. We can expect instances of violent weather. > > > Importantly, > > > > Mars sits in watery Cancer. This gives violent watery weather. > > > > - Me is the final dispositor of Saturn (LO4, domestic happiness) > > and the > > > > Moon. Me has the close impact of Ke, which produces extremes in > > weather. > > > > China has an average of 5 typhoons per year and some random, extreme > > > > occurences. These shall be pointed out at a later date. > > > > - Atheism is to be seen through a weak Jupiter, H9 and the > impact of a > > > > strong Mars and Saturn. Here Ju is weak by extreme old age. > > Debilitated > > > > tamasic Mars closely impacts Venus, the significator of > materialistic > > > > pursuits. Saturn conj Mo in H10 gives the bent of mind towards > > service. > > > > LO10, the spiritual planet, the Sun is located in H11 as > > described; this > > > > gives initiative towards gains through hard work and service. As Ju > > > closely > > > > impacts the 8H (mystic knowledge, research) and 10H (Mo, and Sa > > > located), > > > > even though in old age, it is helpful. It accounts for the Chinese > > > > involvement in subtle energy sciences, research and esoteric > > > philisophies. I > > > > believe that the 59% atheism is justified as this chart does > show some > > > > spirituallity. > > > > - The life span seen in this chart is seen through Ve, Sa and > > > influences on > > > > the 1, 8, and 12Hs. Positives are close well placed Sa-Mo, Ju-H8 > > > MEP, Ve; > > > > negatives are close Ma-Ve, Ra-H1 MEP. Seen comprehensively, 72 > > years is > > > > inline. If anyone has a link that tells of the major cause of health > > > > concerns in China, please forward. > > > > - Ma-Ve close aspect, shows an unwelcoming attitude towards > > > outsiders and > > > > foreign influences and adhering to foreign policies. It can also > > > contribute > > > > to wealth through foreign sources as its not close. > > > > - Close conj of LO4, Sa and the Mo accounts for the largest > > > resources for > > > > hydro power generation > > > > - Additionally, Thor has assesed this chart quickly and commented > > on the > > > > present situation, " China with Scorpio rising would be reserved but > > > prone > > > > to explode in fury. Currently, both L2 Jupiter in H1 and > > > > L4 Saturn in H9 are under the afflicting aspect of Rahu at 23° 33' > > > in Pisces > > > > and H5. This aspect will become even closer in coming weeks. > > > Important as > > > > China now in Ju/Ju period and Jupiter is well placed in own sign and > > > H2 but > > > > very weak in old age. The transit aspect of Jupiter to Saturn is not > > > helpful > > > > because of the natal weakness of Jupiter in the chart. It would > > > signal weak > > > > wealth and status for the country. This could bring the Taiwan issue > > > to the > > > > fore, as L2 indicates relations with neighboring countries and L4 > > > rules the > > > > territories. Interestingly, L4 Saturn is conjunct L9 Moon in H10 - > > > not bad > > > > for fortune with territories or expansive territories and great > > > heritage. > > > > Also, people would generally be content and communal harmony > > preserved. " > > > > > > > > On the population issue, I kindly request guidance on how to > > examine it. > > > > > > > > > > > > First case study: > > > > > > > > A key event was the Tiananmen Square massacre. You may google this > > > event to > > > > find > > > > the details. > > > > > > > > Here is the analysis of the TT and a screen shot is attached: > > > > > > > > 3 June 1989, 22::30 - the first shootings at the Tiananmen Square > > > massacre. > > > > Ra/Ra period > > > > Natal Ra is situated in H5; the axis forms a close association with > > > all odd > > > > houses. H5 rules students, emotional stability, communal harmony, > > > children, > > > > population, morals and values of the people etc. Natal Ke exactly > > > afflicts > > > > tr Ju and Mo, and is close to tr Su; all these FB planets were in > > H7. H7 > > > > rules bond of relationships amongst masses and business > > establishments, > > > > foreign affairs and agreements. Mars LO6 (conflicts), > significator of > > > > executions and violence, afflicts H8 (death, endings) exactly on > > > this date. > > > > Natal Jupiter ruling status, is afflicted by this Mars. Venus LO12 > > > natally > > > > afflicted by Mars, was in the afflicted 8H on this day under the > exact > > > > affliction of tr Rahu from the 4H. Mars also afflicted natal > > > Mercury. LO4 Sa > > > > was located in afflicted H2 and its Lord, Ju afflicted by na Ra. > > > Putting it > > > > all together, trouble to the masses and students ending in violent > > > > executions resulting in loss of status of the nation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > Vyas Munidas > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2007 Report Share Posted March 21, 2007 Dear , Thank you for the assessment of the usefulness of this line of inquiry. Indeed, there are many other issues and benchmarks to consider. Best wishes, Thor SAMVA , <siha wrote: > > > Hello Thor, > > Population aspect is one such aspect which cannot be said with reasonable > certainity. There are other aspects which are helpful for greater confidence > in the chart. Let us concentrate on those. > > Best wishes. > > > > > > - > " cosmologer " <cosmologer > <SAMVA > > Wednesday, March 21, 2007 8:44 AM > Re: Professor, Thor - China population > > > Dear Vyas, > > That is a good question and the answer does not immediately present > itself when looking at the chart in terms of SA. However, there may be > some indications. > > We had discussed earlier the 4th house and lord with respect to size > of the country in terms of land or territory. Favourable influences on > the 4th house or lord, could explain large territory, including > through the expansive influence of Jupiter. > > As for the size of population, if it is any parallel to what Professor > Choudhry has said about reading 'height' from a natal chart, we would > look for strength of 1st or 3rd houses or their lords. Jupiter and > Saturn could be important influences on these houses or their lords. > Also, the sign Leo has been associated with above average height when > Sun is also strong in the chart. > > In the 27° Scorpio rising chart, there is no MT sign in H1 or H3. > Moreover, Jupiter and Saturn are not influencing the said houses. > Hence, the 'height' rule does not suggest the population. What we are > left with is that L2 Jupiter is in own sign and on MEP of H2. Would > that be sufficient? > > As for territory, L4 Saturn is strong and well placed in H10 closely > conjunct L9 Moon. Saturn also aspects L12 Venus in H12. L2 Jupiter > then aspects H10, where L4 Saturn is placed. So, there are two > expansive elements influencing L4 Saturn. This could be > sufficient to exaplain the above average size of the territory. > > I would be interested in the view of on this issue. > > Best wishes, > > Thor > > SAMVA , " Vyas Munidas " <munidas@> wrote: > > > > Dear Professor, Thor (and list), > > > > On the issue of large population, how do we examine it in a chart? > Please > > use this Sc chart as an example. > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > Vyas Munidas > > > > > > - > > " cosmologer " <cosmologer@> > > <SAMVA > > > Tuesday, March 20, 2007 5:44 PM > > Re: China, Sc chart exploration > > > > > > Dear Vyas, > > > > You are welcome. > > > > Good to hear, the work to uncover the authentic chart for China is > > exciting. > > > > Best wishes, > > > > Thor > > > > SAMVA , " Vyas Munidas " <munidas@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Thor, > > > > > > Thanks for the suggestions. Yes, the game plan has been to examine > > other > > > TSEs in this chart and then examine in the same fashion, the other > > > ascendants I have pointed to as probable. > > > > > > Previously, I have looked at all the major natural disasters in the > > Sc chart > > > (and other ascendants) and this is the main reason why I have > > started here. > > > What's left is to present it here in better detail; perhaps I will > find > > > things that I have missed gaining a quick impression. > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > Vyas Munidas > > > > > > > > > - > > > " cosmologer " <cosmologer@> > > > <SAMVA > > > > Tuesday, March 20, 2007 2:25 PM > > > Re: China, Sc chart exploration > > > > > > > > > Dear Vyas, > > > > > > The analysis by you could possibly explain the event. That said, I > > > offer some additional suggestions for your consideration. > > > > > > The first has to do with nature of the event. If the events from April > > > 15 to June 3 were unfolding in a disjointed or non-thematic fashion, > > > then it make sense to use a sequence of different afflictions to > > > explain the evolving tension. However, if a clear theme was present in > > > the unfolding events, it would seem logical to look for a salient > > > reason such as an affliction by a slow moving FM planet to a sensitive > > > placement in the chart. > > > > > > The second has to do with methodological approach to testing charts. > > > In order to get a feel for how plausible any chart is, a good > > > way forward is to check several important events. This gives a quick > > > feel for how significant events size up in the charts in terms of > > > period and transit dynamics. This approach proved very useful in > > > testing the SAMVA USA chart against historical events. Importantly, if > > > an event turns up that doesn't offer a good match with the transit and > > > period dynamics, it should be taken as evidence concerning the > > > validity of the chart. Several such pieces of evidence could be > > > helpful to rule out a given chart. If no such blemishes appear, deeper > > > analysis is warranted. > > > > > > Finally, when a chart passes such back-testing the next stage is to > > > make predictions. Only after a chart has successfully passed such > > > demanding tests, should it be considered authentic. > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > Thor > > > > > > SAMVA , " Vyas Munidas " <munidas@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Thor, > > > > > > > > That's a really good point. Wikipedia says protests started around > > > April > > > > 15th. > > > > > > > > Let's examine the period from start to end to see if there are other > > > > elements of transit > > > > - Ra/Ra period, natal Ra close to the MEP H5 > > > > - On that day, FM Mars was at 28 degrees H7 afflicting Ju and na Ju, > > > H1, H2 > > > > (where LO4 transits), Mo (natal dis of Ma and conj Sa) conj Ke > > > > - Su, FM Ve, Me in Aries, H6. Me exactly opposite natal Ve; Ke-Ve > > > begins > > > > aspect within 5 deg; Su, natal dis of LO4, Sa, in utter infancy. > > > > - by the 19th Apr Ve is also afflicting na Ve, Su is within 3 > > > degrees of Ke; > > > > LO6 is now badly placed in extreme infancy, still afflicting na Ju. > > > It also > > > > afflicts na Su. > > > > - May 4 Ve is affflicting H6/12; Ma in 8H is under the influence > of Ra > > > > within 2 degrees, but separating. > > > > - by 14th May, Su transits into 7H, Ve has been afflicting Me for a > > > few days > > > > and is now exact; Ju receives the close aspect of natal Ke > > > > - by the 20th, Ve-Ju is within that 2 degree orb and na-Ke-Ju is > > > closer; Ma > > > > begins to afflict natal Ke within 5 degrees (Gov't declares > > martial law) > > > > - by 30th Ve is in extreme infancy in 8H now afflicted by Mars > > within 2 > > > > degrees. Ve receives the close asp of tr Ra. Ju is afflicted by na > > > Ke within > > > > 1 degree. > > > > - By the 3rd June the situation is as described and we must also add > > > the > > > > element of combustion experienced for some weeks prior. June 4, it > > > continued > > > > and ended abruptly. > > > > > > > > One more important point, na Ju is weak and won't exceed its natal > > > strength. > > > > So when slow moving LO4 transits H2 and there are adverse > > > combinations in > > > > succession, in such a subperiod, this does not surprise in the > > > least. Looks > > > > to me like one punch after the next ending in a knock-out vs the > > > constant > > > > squeeze till passing out. > > > > > > > > Your thoughts on this please? > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > Vyas Munidas > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > " cosmologer " <cosmologer@> > > > > <SAMVA > > > > > Tuesday, March 20, 2007 3:44 AM > > > > Re: China, Sc chart exploration > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Vyas, > > > > > > > > Thanks for this contribution. It is promising. However, there is one > > > > observation. The transit configurations lack a stationary contact > > > > involving a slow moving planet. For instance, L2 Jupiter was > moving at > > > > normal speed through the aspect of the natal nodes at the time. > In my > > > > experience, an event that produces significant strain for a > period of > > > > time and has deep impact needs such a contact in the chart. Further > > > > such tests may resolve the doubts. > > > > > > > > By comparison, Saturn was at 19° Sagittarius and had been stationary > > > > for some months at 20° prior to the event. In this chart, > however, it > > > > is not making any natal significant contact. > > > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > > > Thor > > > > > > > > > > > > SAMVA , " Vyas Munidas " <munidas@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Please ignore the last image, included here is one showing the > > > relevant > > > > > transits > > > > > > > > > > The chart data can be seen in the image file. It's also included > > > > here for > > > > > convenience: > > > > > 21/09/1949 13:00, Peking, China, Sc 27:51 > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > > > Vyas Munidas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > " Vyas Munidas " <munidas@> > > > > > <SAMVA > > > > > > Tuesday, March 20, 2007 2:51 AM > > > > > China, Sc chart exploration > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear List, > > > > > > > > > > Let's further the discussion on the China chart. First up is > the Sc > > > > chart. > > > > > We'll first look at the natal potential and then examine a > > significant > > > > > event, more will follow. > > > > > > > > > > Natal potential: > > > > > > > > > > Let's re-iterate the Professor's opinion, " This merits trial. The > > > > weakness > > > > > of Jupiter and close affliction to Venus explains the poor > status of > > > > people > > > > > for quite long. Influence of Mercury on the house of income > > indicates > > > > > success through commerce and trading. " > > > > > > > > > > (Earlier points on China traits) > > > > > > > > > > Strong and aggressive policies (6H influences) > > > > > Above average incidents of natural disasters (Ve, H4 issues) > > > > > Manufacturing based economy (Sa) > > > > > Largest account surplus in the world, 180 Bln > > > > > Largest resources for hydro power generation (4H, Mo) > > > > > Largest population in the world > > > > > Over one trillion USD in FX reserves (income houses) > > > > > Average person lives 72 years (around 1950 it was 32 years) (1, 8, > > > > 12, Sa) > > > > > Officially atheist (est 59%) (H9, Ju, tamasic influences of Sa > > and Ma) > > > > > Average annual 9.4% GDP for the last 25 years (however, with > such a > > > > large > > > > > population, GDP/person is only 1/5th of the US) > > > > > World's second largest R & D budget > > > > > Secretive nation > > > > > > > > > > (Now, seen through the chart) > > > > > > > > > > - Close influence of income and initiatives 11H lord, Me in > its MTH > > > > close to > > > > > the MEP gives success in commerce and trading > > > > > - LO2, Ju in old age explains the poor status of the people. As it > > > > makes a > > > > > close impact, improvement is gradual. > > > > > - Saturn rules manufacturing in general and is conj LO9, the > Moon in > > > > H10. > > > > > China has a manufacturing based economy and they export their > goods, > > > > > maintaining the largest surplus in the world > > > > > - Ve is important to weather and is located in its own MTH, 12H. > > > > Mars LO6 > > > > > aspects it closely. We can expect instances of violent weather. > > > > Importantly, > > > > > Mars sits in watery Cancer. This gives violent watery weather. > > > > > - Me is the final dispositor of Saturn (LO4, domestic happiness) > > > and the > > > > > Moon. Me has the close impact of Ke, which produces extremes in > > > weather. > > > > > China has an average of 5 typhoons per year and some random, > extreme > > > > > occurences. These shall be pointed out at a later date. > > > > > - Atheism is to be seen through a weak Jupiter, H9 and the > > impact of a > > > > > strong Mars and Saturn. Here Ju is weak by extreme old age. > > > Debilitated > > > > > tamasic Mars closely impacts Venus, the significator of > > materialistic > > > > > pursuits. Saturn conj Mo in H10 gives the bent of mind towards > > > service. > > > > > LO10, the spiritual planet, the Sun is located in H11 as > > > described; this > > > > > gives initiative towards gains through hard work and service. > As Ju > > > > closely > > > > > impacts the 8H (mystic knowledge, research) and 10H (Mo, and Sa > > > > located), > > > > > even though in old age, it is helpful. It accounts for the Chinese > > > > > involvement in subtle energy sciences, research and esoteric > > > > philisophies. I > > > > > believe that the 59% atheism is justified as this chart does > > show some > > > > > spirituallity. > > > > > - The life span seen in this chart is seen through Ve, Sa and > > > > influences on > > > > > the 1, 8, and 12Hs. Positives are close well placed Sa-Mo, Ju-H8 > > > > MEP, Ve; > > > > > negatives are close Ma-Ve, Ra-H1 MEP. Seen comprehensively, 72 > > > years is > > > > > inline. If anyone has a link that tells of the major cause of > health > > > > > concerns in China, please forward. > > > > > - Ma-Ve close aspect, shows an unwelcoming attitude towards > > > > outsiders and > > > > > foreign influences and adhering to foreign policies. It can also > > > > contribute > > > > > to wealth through foreign sources as its not close. > > > > > - Close conj of LO4, Sa and the Mo accounts for the largest > > > > resources for > > > > > hydro power generation > > > > > - Additionally, Thor has assesed this chart quickly and commented > > > on the > > > > > present situation, " China with Scorpio rising would be > reserved but > > > > prone > > > > > to explode in fury. Currently, both L2 Jupiter in H1 and > > > > > L4 Saturn in H9 are under the afflicting aspect of Rahu at 23° 33' > > > > in Pisces > > > > > and H5. This aspect will become even closer in coming weeks. > > > > Important as > > > > > China now in Ju/Ju period and Jupiter is well placed in own > sign and > > > > H2 but > > > > > very weak in old age. The transit aspect of Jupiter to Saturn > is not > > > > helpful > > > > > because of the natal weakness of Jupiter in the chart. It would > > > > signal weak > > > > > wealth and status for the country. This could bring the Taiwan > issue > > > > to the > > > > > fore, as L2 indicates relations with neighboring countries and L4 > > > > rules the > > > > > territories. Interestingly, L4 Saturn is conjunct L9 Moon in H10 - > > > > not bad > > > > > for fortune with territories or expansive territories and great > > > > heritage. > > > > > Also, people would generally be content and communal harmony > > > preserved. " > > > > > > > > > > On the population issue, I kindly request guidance on how to > > > examine it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First case study: > > > > > > > > > > A key event was the Tiananmen Square massacre. You may google this > > > > event to > > > > > find > > > > > the details. > > > > > > > > > > Here is the analysis of the TT and a screen shot is attached: > > > > > > > > > > 3 June 1989, 22::30 - the first shootings at the Tiananmen Square > > > > massacre. > > > > > Ra/Ra period > > > > > Natal Ra is situated in H5; the axis forms a close association > with > > > > all odd > > > > > houses. H5 rules students, emotional stability, communal harmony, > > > > children, > > > > > population, morals and values of the people etc. Natal Ke exactly > > > > afflicts > > > > > tr Ju and Mo, and is close to tr Su; all these FB planets were in > > > H7. H7 > > > > > rules bond of relationships amongst masses and business > > > establishments, > > > > > foreign affairs and agreements. Mars LO6 (conflicts), > > significator of > > > > > executions and violence, afflicts H8 (death, endings) exactly on > > > > this date. > > > > > Natal Jupiter ruling status, is afflicted by this Mars. Venus LO12 > > > > natally > > > > > afflicted by Mars, was in the afflicted 8H on this day under the > > exact > > > > > affliction of tr Rahu from the 4H. Mars also afflicted natal > > > > Mercury. LO4 Sa > > > > > was located in afflicted H2 and its Lord, Ju afflicted by na Ra. > > > > Putting it > > > > > all together, trouble to the masses and students ending in violent > > > > > executions resulting in loss of status of the nation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > > > Vyas Munidas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2007 Report Share Posted March 21, 2007 Thank you Professor and Thor. Best regards, Vyas Munidas - <siha <SAMVA > Tuesday, March 20, 2007 11:34 PM Re: Re: Professor, Thor - China population Hello Thor, Population aspect is one such aspect which cannot be said with reasonable certainity. There are other aspects which are helpful for greater confidence in the chart. Let us concentrate on those. Best wishes. - " cosmologer " <cosmologer <SAMVA > Wednesday, March 21, 2007 8:44 AM Re: Professor, Thor - China population Dear Vyas, That is a good question and the answer does not immediately present itself when looking at the chart in terms of SA. However, there may be some indications. We had discussed earlier the 4th house and lord with respect to size of the country in terms of land or territory. Favourable influences on the 4th house or lord, could explain large territory, including through the expansive influence of Jupiter. As for the size of population, if it is any parallel to what Professor Choudhry has said about reading 'height' from a natal chart, we would look for strength of 1st or 3rd houses or their lords. Jupiter and Saturn could be important influences on these houses or their lords. Also, the sign Leo has been associated with above average height when Sun is also strong in the chart. In the 27° Scorpio rising chart, there is no MT sign in H1 or H3. Moreover, Jupiter and Saturn are not influencing the said houses. Hence, the 'height' rule does not suggest the population. What we are left with is that L2 Jupiter is in own sign and on MEP of H2. Would that be sufficient? As for territory, L4 Saturn is strong and well placed in H10 closely conjunct L9 Moon. Saturn also aspects L12 Venus in H12. L2 Jupiter then aspects H10, where L4 Saturn is placed. So, there are two expansive elements influencing L4 Saturn. This could be sufficient to exaplain the above average size of the territory. I would be interested in the view of on this issue. Best wishes, Thor SAMVA , " Vyas Munidas " <muni> wrote: > > Dear Professor, Thor (and list), > > On the issue of large population, how do we examine it in a chart? Please > use this Sc chart as an example. > > > Best regards, > > Vyas Munidas > > > - > " cosmologer " <cosmologer > <SAMVA > > Tuesday, March 20, 2007 5:44 PM > Re: China, Sc chart exploration > > > Dear Vyas, > > You are welcome. > > Good to hear, the work to uncover the authentic chart for China is > exciting. > > Best wishes, > > Thor > > SAMVA , " Vyas Munidas " <munidas@> wrote: > > > > Dear Thor, > > > > Thanks for the suggestions. Yes, the game plan has been to examine > other > > TSEs in this chart and then examine in the same fashion, the other > > ascendants I have pointed to as probable. > > > > Previously, I have looked at all the major natural disasters in the > Sc chart > > (and other ascendants) and this is the main reason why I have > started here. > > What's left is to present it here in better detail; perhaps I will find > > things that I have missed gaining a quick impression. > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > Vyas Munidas > > > > > > - > > " cosmologer " <cosmologer@> > > <SAMVA > > > Tuesday, March 20, 2007 2:25 PM > > Re: China, Sc chart exploration > > > > > > Dear Vyas, > > > > The analysis by you could possibly explain the event. That said, I > > offer some additional suggestions for your consideration. > > > > The first has to do with nature of the event. If the events from April > > 15 to June 3 were unfolding in a disjointed or non-thematic fashion, > > then it make sense to use a sequence of different afflictions to > > explain the evolving tension. However, if a clear theme was present in > > the unfolding events, it would seem logical to look for a salient > > reason such as an affliction by a slow moving FM planet to a sensitive > > placement in the chart. > > > > The second has to do with methodological approach to testing charts. > > In order to get a feel for how plausible any chart is, a good > > way forward is to check several important events. This gives a quick > > feel for how significant events size up in the charts in terms of > > period and transit dynamics. This approach proved very useful in > > testing the SAMVA USA chart against historical events. Importantly, if > > an event turns up that doesn't offer a good match with the transit and > > period dynamics, it should be taken as evidence concerning the > > validity of the chart. Several such pieces of evidence could be > > helpful to rule out a given chart. If no such blemishes appear, deeper > > analysis is warranted. > > > > Finally, when a chart passes such back-testing the next stage is to > > make predictions. Only after a chart has successfully passed such > > demanding tests, should it be considered authentic. > > > > Best wishes, > > > > Thor > > > > SAMVA , " Vyas Munidas " <munidas@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Thor, > > > > > > That's a really good point. Wikipedia says protests started around > > April > > > 15th. > > > > > > Let's examine the period from start to end to see if there are other > > > elements of transit > > > - Ra/Ra period, natal Ra close to the MEP H5 > > > - On that day, FM Mars was at 28 degrees H7 afflicting Ju and na Ju, > > H1, H2 > > > (where LO4 transits), Mo (natal dis of Ma and conj Sa) conj Ke > > > - Su, FM Ve, Me in Aries, H6. Me exactly opposite natal Ve; Ke-Ve > > begins > > > aspect within 5 deg; Su, natal dis of LO4, Sa, in utter infancy. > > > - by the 19th Apr Ve is also afflicting na Ve, Su is within 3 > > degrees of Ke; > > > LO6 is now badly placed in extreme infancy, still afflicting na Ju. > > It also > > > afflicts na Su. > > > - May 4 Ve is affflicting H6/12; Ma in 8H is under the influence of Ra > > > within 2 degrees, but separating. > > > - by 14th May, Su transits into 7H, Ve has been afflicting Me for a > > few days > > > and is now exact; Ju receives the close aspect of natal Ke > > > - by the 20th, Ve-Ju is within that 2 degree orb and na-Ke-Ju is > > closer; Ma > > > begins to afflict natal Ke within 5 degrees (Gov't declares > martial law) > > > - by 30th Ve is in extreme infancy in 8H now afflicted by Mars > within 2 > > > degrees. Ve receives the close asp of tr Ra. Ju is afflicted by na > > Ke within > > > 1 degree. > > > - By the 3rd June the situation is as described and we must also add > > the > > > element of combustion experienced for some weeks prior. June 4, it > > continued > > > and ended abruptly. > > > > > > One more important point, na Ju is weak and won't exceed its natal > > strength. > > > So when slow moving LO4 transits H2 and there are adverse > > combinations in > > > succession, in such a subperiod, this does not surprise in the > > least. Looks > > > to me like one punch after the next ending in a knock-out vs the > > constant > > > squeeze till passing out. > > > > > > Your thoughts on this please? > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > Vyas Munidas > > > > > > > > > - > > > " cosmologer " <cosmologer@> > > > <SAMVA > > > > Tuesday, March 20, 2007 3:44 AM > > > Re: China, Sc chart exploration > > > > > > > > > Dear Vyas, > > > > > > Thanks for this contribution. It is promising. However, there is one > > > observation. The transit configurations lack a stationary contact > > > involving a slow moving planet. For instance, L2 Jupiter was moving at > > > normal speed through the aspect of the natal nodes at the time. In my > > > experience, an event that produces significant strain for a period of > > > time and has deep impact needs such a contact in the chart. Further > > > such tests may resolve the doubts. > > > > > > By comparison, Saturn was at 19° Sagittarius and had been stationary > > > for some months at 20° prior to the event. In this chart, however, it > > > is not making any natal significant contact. > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > Thor > > > > > > > > > SAMVA , " Vyas Munidas " <munidas@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Please ignore the last image, included here is one showing the > > relevant > > > > transits > > > > > > > > The chart data can be seen in the image file. It's also included > > > here for > > > > convenience: > > > > 21/09/1949 13:00, Peking, China, Sc 27:51 > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > Vyas Munidas > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > " Vyas Munidas " <munidas@> > > > > <SAMVA > > > > > Tuesday, March 20, 2007 2:51 AM > > > > China, Sc chart exploration > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear List, > > > > > > > > Let's further the discussion on the China chart. First up is the Sc > > > chart. > > > > We'll first look at the natal potential and then examine a > significant > > > > event, more will follow. > > > > > > > > Natal potential: > > > > > > > > Let's re-iterate the Professor's opinion, " This merits trial. The > > > weakness > > > > of Jupiter and close affliction to Venus explains the poor status of > > > people > > > > for quite long. Influence of Mercury on the house of income > indicates > > > > success through commerce and trading. " > > > > > > > > (Earlier points on China traits) > > > > > > > > Strong and aggressive policies (6H influences) > > > > Above average incidents of natural disasters (Ve, H4 issues) > > > > Manufacturing based economy (Sa) > > > > Largest account surplus in the world, 180 Bln > > > > Largest resources for hydro power generation (4H, Mo) > > > > Largest population in the world > > > > Over one trillion USD in FX reserves (income houses) > > > > Average person lives 72 years (around 1950 it was 32 years) (1, 8, > > > 12, Sa) > > > > Officially atheist (est 59%) (H9, Ju, tamasic influences of Sa > and Ma) > > > > Average annual 9.4% GDP for the last 25 years (however, with such a > > > large > > > > population, GDP/person is only 1/5th of the US) > > > > World's second largest R & D budget > > > > Secretive nation > > > > > > > > (Now, seen through the chart) > > > > > > > > - Close influence of income and initiatives 11H lord, Me in its MTH > > > close to > > > > the MEP gives success in commerce and trading > > > > - LO2, Ju in old age explains the poor status of the people. As it > > > makes a > > > > close impact, improvement is gradual. > > > > - Saturn rules manufacturing in general and is conj LO9, the Moon in > > > H10. > > > > China has a manufacturing based economy and they export their goods, > > > > maintaining the largest surplus in the world > > > > - Ve is important to weather and is located in its own MTH, 12H. > > > Mars LO6 > > > > aspects it closely. We can expect instances of violent weather. > > > Importantly, > > > > Mars sits in watery Cancer. This gives violent watery weather. > > > > - Me is the final dispositor of Saturn (LO4, domestic happiness) > > and the > > > > Moon. Me has the close impact of Ke, which produces extremes in > > weather. > > > > China has an average of 5 typhoons per year and some random, extreme > > > > occurences. These shall be pointed out at a later date. > > > > - Atheism is to be seen through a weak Jupiter, H9 and the > impact of a > > > > strong Mars and Saturn. Here Ju is weak by extreme old age. > > Debilitated > > > > tamasic Mars closely impacts Venus, the significator of > materialistic > > > > pursuits. Saturn conj Mo in H10 gives the bent of mind towards > > service. > > > > LO10, the spiritual planet, the Sun is located in H11 as > > described; this > > > > gives initiative towards gains through hard work and service. As Ju > > > closely > > > > impacts the 8H (mystic knowledge, research) and 10H (Mo, and Sa > > > located), > > > > even though in old age, it is helpful. It accounts for the Chinese > > > > involvement in subtle energy sciences, research and esoteric > > > philisophies. I > > > > believe that the 59% atheism is justified as this chart does > show some > > > > spirituallity. > > > > - The life span seen in this chart is seen through Ve, Sa and > > > influences on > > > > the 1, 8, and 12Hs. Positives are close well placed Sa-Mo, Ju-H8 > > > MEP, Ve; > > > > negatives are close Ma-Ve, Ra-H1 MEP. Seen comprehensively, 72 > > years is > > > > inline. If anyone has a link that tells of the major cause of health > > > > concerns in China, please forward. > > > > - Ma-Ve close aspect, shows an unwelcoming attitude towards > > > outsiders and > > > > foreign influences and adhering to foreign policies. It can also > > > contribute > > > > to wealth through foreign sources as its not close. > > > > - Close conj of LO4, Sa and the Mo accounts for the largest > > > resources for > > > > hydro power generation > > > > - Additionally, Thor has assesed this chart quickly and commented > > on the > > > > present situation, " China with Scorpio rising would be reserved but > > > prone > > > > to explode in fury. Currently, both L2 Jupiter in H1 and > > > > L4 Saturn in H9 are under the afflicting aspect of Rahu at 23° 33' > > > in Pisces > > > > and H5. This aspect will become even closer in coming weeks. > > > Important as > > > > China now in Ju/Ju period and Jupiter is well placed in own sign and > > > H2 but > > > > very weak in old age. The transit aspect of Jupiter to Saturn is not > > > helpful > > > > because of the natal weakness of Jupiter in the chart. It would > > > signal weak > > > > wealth and status for the country. This could bring the Taiwan issue > > > to the > > > > fore, as L2 indicates relations with neighboring countries and L4 > > > rules the > > > > territories. Interestingly, L4 Saturn is conjunct L9 Moon in H10 - > > > not bad > > > > for fortune with territories or expansive territories and great > > > heritage. > > > > Also, people would generally be content and communal harmony > > preserved. " > > > > > > > > On the population issue, I kindly request guidance on how to > > examine it. > > > > > > > > > > > > First case study: > > > > > > > > A key event was the Tiananmen Square massacre. You may google this > > > event to > > > > find > > > > the details. > > > > > > > > Here is the analysis of the TT and a screen shot is attached: > > > > > > > > 3 June 1989, 22::30 - the first shootings at the Tiananmen Square > > > massacre. > > > > Ra/Ra period > > > > Natal Ra is situated in H5; the axis forms a close association with > > > all odd > > > > houses. H5 rules students, emotional stability, communal harmony, > > > children, > > > > population, morals and values of the people etc. Natal Ke exactly > > > afflicts > > > > tr Ju and Mo, and is close to tr Su; all these FB planets were in > > H7. H7 > > > > rules bond of relationships amongst masses and business > > establishments, > > > > foreign affairs and agreements. Mars LO6 (conflicts), > significator of > > > > executions and violence, afflicts H8 (death, endings) exactly on > > > this date. > > > > Natal Jupiter ruling status, is afflicted by this Mars. Venus LO12 > > > natally > > > > afflicted by Mars, was in the afflicted 8H on this day under the > exact > > > > affliction of tr Rahu from the 4H. Mars also afflicted natal > > > Mercury. LO4 Sa > > > > was located in afflicted H2 and its Lord, Ju afflicted by na Ra. > > > Putting it > > > > all together, trouble to the masses and students ending in violent > > > > executions resulting in loss of status of the nation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > Vyas Munidas > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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