Guest guest Posted May 19, 2007 Report Share Posted May 19, 2007 Dear friends,As a background to understanding better the Saturn-Ketu conjunction this autumn, it is helpful to review the conjunction of Saturn and Ketu in 1962 and what the salient difference is.In 1962, Saturn and Ketu became conjunct three times, In mid May, mid July and late October. The July conjunction occurred while Ketu was stationary at 16° Capricorn. The station then began to unwind in early October. As the attached historical records show, the missile crises began in May, with the Soviet decision to place nuclear missiles in Cuba in retaliation for US missiles in Turkey. The situation reached a critical stage in July when the Soviets actually shipped the missiles by freight ships. However, the effort was soon exposed by the US and it reacted to the situation in gradual steps, which reached a threatening level in October. The situation was then defused in the waning days of October with the missiles returned to the Soviet Union, while the US missiles in Turkey were dismantled in the following month.The associated graph shows these contacts clearly. Interestingly, the natal Mercury in the SAMVA USA chart is at 12° 06' Capricorn. Importantly, the conjunction took place in the 7th house of foreign policy for the USA. The final conjunction of Saturn and Ketu took place at 11° 50' in Capricorn on 25 October 1962.As you know from my previous post, the conjunction of Saturn and Ketu takes place at 11° 45' Leo on 24 October 2007 - almost forty five years to the day from the so-called "Cuban missile crisis". That said, as the conjunction does not take place on a sensitive placement in the SAMVA USA chart, it should not be so noticeable there, although some modest influence may be felt for 2nd house matters. Also, the conjunction has not happened before this year, and comes after the station of Ketu at 13° Leo has begun to unwind. The impact is therefore likley to be less and not involve a gradual development into a full blown crisis as was the case in 1962, but perhaps the development of some sudden problem, as is also the nature of Ketu.For the history buffs, the following text highlights the evolution of the crisis in 1962.Best wishes,ThorOctober 28, 1959 Turkey and the United States agree to deploy fifteen nuclear-tipped Jupiter missiles in Turkey starting on June 1, 1961. Turkey is member of NATO and shares a border with the Soviet Union.Late April 1962 While vacationing in the Crimea, across the Black sea from Turkey, Khrushchev reflects on the Turkish missiles and reportedly conceives the idea of deploying similar weapons in Cuba.ay 1962 Deliberations regarding the possible installation of missiles in Cuba continue in Moscow. May 8, 1962 A multi-service military exercise designed to test contingency planning for Cuba begins.May 30, 1962 After conferring with Raul Castro, Che Guevara, Osvaldo Dorticos and Blas Roca, Fidel Castro informs the visiting Soviet officials that Cuba will accept the deployment of nuclear weapons.July 15, 1962 Around this time, Soviet cargo ships begin moving out of the Black Sea for Cuba with false declarations of their destinations and reporting tonnages well below their capacities.August 10, 1962 After examining CIA reports on the movement of cargo ships from the Black and Baltic seas to Cuba, CIA Director John McCone dictates a memorandum for the President expressing the belief that Soviet MRBMs are destined for Cuba.August 23, 1962 President Kennedy calls a meeting of the National Security Council (NSC) to air John McCone's concerns that Soviet missiles were in the process of being introduced into Cuba. August 29, 1962 A high-altitude U-2 surveillance flight provides conclusive evidence of the existence of SA-2 SAM missile sites at eight different locations in Cuba.September 20, 1962 A Senate resolution on Cuba sanctioning the use of force, if necessary, to curb Cuban aggression and subversion in the western hemisphere, passes the Senate by a vote of eighty-six to one. The resolution states that the United States is determined "to prevent the creation or use of an externally supported offensive military capability endangering the security of the U.S." and to "support the aspirations of the Cuban people for a return to self-determination."October 14, 1962 Early morning: A U-2 aircraft flies over western Cuba from south to north. The reconnaissance mission, piloted by Major Richard Heyser, is the first Strategic Air Command (SAC) mission after authority for the flights is transferred from the CIA to the Air Force. The photographs obtained by the mission provide the first hard evidence of MRBM sites in Cuba. ( Bundy , p. 301)October 17, 1962 Morning: Adlai Stevenson writes to President Kennedy that world opinion would equate the U.S. missiles stationed in Turkey with Soviet bases in Cuba.October 25, 1962 1:45A.M.: A message from President Kennedy for Premier Khrushchev is transmitted to the U.S. embassy in Moscow. Acknowledging Khrushchev 's letter of October 24, Kennedy writes, "I regret very much that you still do not appear to understand what it is that has moved us in this matter..." Kennedy notes that he had received "solemn assurances" that no missiles bases would be established in Cuba. When these assurances proved false, the deployment of missiles in Cuba "required the responses I have announced...I hope that your government will take the necessary action to permit a restoration of the earlier situation." (Document 39, President Kennedy 's Letter to Premier Khrushchev , 10/25/62)October 26, 1962 Nikita Khrushchev demands from the U.S. a removal of nuclear missiles in Turkey as well as a promise to not invade Cuba as preconditions for his removal of Soviet missiles on Cuba. President Kennedy replies that all work in Cuba must stop prior to any negotiations.October 27, 1962 Night: Fidel Castro meets with Soviet Ambassador Alekseyev for lengthy discussions in the Soviet embassy in Havana. Castro, Alekseyev later reports, had been briefed by him on each of the messages sent back and forth between Moscow and Washington during the crisis. Alekseyev recalls that despite Castro's "characteristic restraint, he [Castro] also evaluated the situation as highly alarming." (Alekseyev, p. 16) October 29, 1962 Morning: Soviet First Deputy Premier Vasily V. Kuznetsov meets with U Thant. Kuznetsov, sent by Premier Khrushchev to New York to work out the details of a settlement to the crisis, tells U Thant that the Soviet missiles are in the process of being dismantled and shipped out of Cuba. Kuznetsov proposes that when the dismantling is completed, the Soviet Union report to the Security Council, which would then authorize a U.N. team to visit Cuba for "on-site" verification. (The Soviet Bloc Armed Forces and the Cuban Crisis: A Chronology July-November 1962, 6/18/63, p. 78)The Soviet Union attempts to hammer out a formal agreement with the United States on the settlement of the missile crisis. Anatoly Dobrynin brings Robert Kennedy an unsigned letter from Premier Khrushchev explicitly spelling out the terms of the arrangement, including Robert Kennedy 's pledge that the Jupiter IRBMs will be removed from Turkey. The attorney general makes no immediate response but takes the letter with him to consider the proposal. When he meets Dobrynin the following day, Kennedy rejects the idea of a written agreement involving the Jupiter missiles. (Schlesinger, pp. 522-23)November 1962 The United States removes its nuclear missiles from Turkey.http://www.nuclearfiles.org/menu/key-issues/nuclear-weapons/history/cold-war/cuban-missile-crisis/timeline.htm Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Answers - Check it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2007 Report Share Posted May 19, 2007 Dear Thor, Very interesting post. Best regards, Vyas Munidas - " Cosmologer " <cosmologer <samva > Saturday, May 19, 2007 5:22 AM US-Soviet missile crisis in 1962 Dear friends, As a background to understanding better the Saturn-Ketu conjunction this autumn, it is helpful to review the conjunction of Saturn and Ketu in 1962 and what the salient difference is. In 1962, Saturn and Ketu became conjunct three times, In mid May, mid July and late October. The July conjunction occurred while Ketu was stationary at 16° Capricorn. The station then began to unwind in early October. As the attached historical records show, the missile crises began in May, with the Soviet decision to place nuclear missiles in Cuba in retaliation for US missiles in Turkey. The situation reached a critical stage in July when the Soviets actually shipped the missiles by freight ships. However, the effort was soon exposed by the US and it reacted to the situation in gradual steps, which reached a threatening level in October. The situation was then defused in the waning days of October with the missiles returned to the Soviet Union, while the US missiles in Turkey were dismantled in the following month. The associated graph shows these contacts clearly. Interestingly, the natal Mercury in the SAMVA USA chart is at 12° 06' Capricorn. Importantly, the conjunction took place in the 7th house of foreign policy for the USA. The final conjunction of Saturn and Ketu took place at 11° 50' in Capricorn on 25 October 1962. As you know from my previous post, the conjunction of Saturn and Ketu takes place at 11° 45' Leo on 24 October 2007 - almost forty five years to the day from the so-called " Cuban missile crisis " . That said, as the conjunction does not take place on a sensitive placement in the SAMVA USA chart, it should not be so noticeable there, although some modest influence may be felt for 2nd house matters. Also, the conjunction has not happened before this year, and comes after the station of Ketu at 13° Leo has begun to unwind. The impact is therefore likley to be less and not involve a gradual development into a full blown crisis as was the case in 1962, but perhaps the development of some sudden problem, as is also the nature of Ketu. For the history buffs, the following text highlights the evolution of the crisis in 1962. Best wishes, Thor October 28, 1959 Turkey and the United States agree to deploy fifteen nuclear-tipped Jupiter missiles in Turkey starting on June 1, 1961. Turkey is member of NATO and shares a border with the Soviet Union. Late April 1962 While vacationing in the Crimea, across the Black sea from Turkey, Khrushchev reflects on the Turkish missiles and reportedly conceives the idea of deploying similar weapons in Cuba. ay 1962 Deliberations regarding the possible installation of missiles in Cuba continue in Moscow. May 8, 1962 A multi-service military exercise designed to test contingency planning for Cuba begins. May 30, 1962 After conferring with Raul Castro, Che Guevara, Osvaldo Dorticos and Blas Roca, Fidel Castro informs the visiting Soviet officials that Cuba will accept the deployment of nuclear weapons. July 15, 1962 Around this time, Soviet cargo ships begin moving out of the Black Sea for Cuba with false declarations of their destinations and reporting tonnages well below their capacities. August 10, 1962 After examining CIA reports on the movement of cargo ships from the Black and Baltic seas to Cuba, CIA Director John McCone dictates a memorandum for the President expressing the belief that Soviet MRBMs are destined for Cuba. August 23, 1962 President Kennedy calls a meeting of the National Security Council (NSC) to air John McCone's concerns that Soviet missiles were in the process of being introduced into Cuba. August 29, 1962 A high-altitude U-2 surveillance flight provides conclusive evidence of the existence of SA-2 SAM missile sites at eight different locations in Cuba. September 20, 1962 A Senate resolution on Cuba sanctioning the use of force, if necessary, to curb Cuban aggression and subversion in the western hemisphere, passes the Senate by a vote of eighty-six to one. The resolution states that the United States is determined " to prevent the creation or use of an externally supported offensive military capability endangering the security of the U.S. " and to " support the aspirations of the Cuban people for a return to self-determination. " October 14, 1962 Early morning: A U-2 aircraft flies over western Cuba from south to north. The reconnaissance mission, piloted by Major Richard Heyser, is the first Strategic Air Command (SAC) mission after authority for the flights is transferred from the CIA to the Air Force. The photographs obtained by the mission provide the first hard evidence of MRBM sites in Cuba. ( Bundy , p. 301) October 17, 1962 Morning: Adlai Stevenson writes to President Kennedy that world opinion would equate the U.S. missiles stationed in Turkey with Soviet bases in Cuba. October 25, 1962 1:45A.M.: A message from President Kennedy for Premier Khrushchev is transmitted to the U.S. embassy in Moscow. Acknowledging Khrushchev 's letter of October 24, Kennedy writes, " I regret very much that you still do not appear to understand what it is that has moved us in this matter... " Kennedy notes that he had received " solemn assurances " that no missiles bases would be established in Cuba. When these assurances proved false, the deployment of missiles in Cuba " required the responses I have announced...I hope that your government will take the necessary action to permit a restoration of the earlier situation. " (Document 39, President Kennedy 's Letter to Premier Khrushchev , 10/25/62) October 26, 1962 Nikita Khrushchev demands from the U.S. a removal of nuclear missiles in Turkey as well as a promise to not invade Cuba as preconditions for his removal of Soviet missiles on Cuba. President Kennedy replies that all work in Cuba must stop prior to any negotiations. October 27, 1962 Night: Fidel Castro meets with Soviet Ambassador Alekseyev for lengthy discussions in the Soviet embassy in Havana. Castro, Alekseyev later reports, had been briefed by him on each of the messages sent back and forth between Moscow and Washington during the crisis. Alekseyev recalls that despite Castro's " characteristic restraint, he [Castro] also evaluated the situation as highly alarming. " (Alekseyev, p. 16) October 29, 1962 Morning: Soviet First Deputy Premier Vasily V. Kuznetsov meets with U Thant. Kuznetsov, sent by Premier Khrushchev to New York to work out the details of a settlement to the crisis, tells U Thant that the Soviet missiles are in the process of being dismantled and shipped out of Cuba. Kuznetsov proposes that when the dismantling is completed, the Soviet Union report to the Security Council, which would then authorize a U.N. team to visit Cuba for " on-site " verification. (The Soviet Bloc Armed Forces and the Cuban Crisis: A Chronology July-November 1962, 6/18/63, p. 78) The Soviet Union attempts to hammer out a formal agreement with the United States on the settlement of the missile crisis. Anatoly Dobrynin brings Robert Kennedy an unsigned letter from Premier Khrushchev explicitly spelling out the terms of the arrangement, including Robert Kennedy 's pledge that the Jupiter IRBMs will be removed from Turkey. The attorney general makes no immediate response but takes the letter with him to consider the proposal. When he meets Dobrynin the following day, Kennedy rejects the idea of a written agreement involving the Jupiter missiles. (Schlesinger, pp. 522-23) November 1962 The United States removes its nuclear missiles from Turkey. http://www.nuclearfiles.org/menu/key-issues/nuclear-weapons/history/cold-war/cub\ an-missile-crisis/timeline.htm Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Answers - Check it out. 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Guest guest Posted May 19, 2007 Report Share Posted May 19, 2007 Dear Vyas,The transits will be somewhat similar in 2019, when the conjunction of Saturn and Ketu takes place in Sagittarius and H6 of SAMVA USA chart - conjunct natal L4 Venus. That would likely be a stressful time with regard to the indications of H6 and those of Venus in the chart. See also attached gif file.Best wishes,Thor Vyas Munidas <muni> wrote: Dear Thor,Very interesting post.Best regards,Vyas Munidas- "Cosmologer" Saturday, May 19, 2007 5:22 AM US-Soviet missile crisis in 1962Dear friends,As a background to understanding better the Saturn-Ketu conjunction this autumn, it is helpful to review the conjunction of Saturn and Ketu in 1962 and what the salient difference is.In 1962, Saturn and Ketu became conjunct three times, In mid May, mid July and late October. The July conjunction occurred while Ketu was stationary at 16° Capricorn. The station then began to unwind in early October. As the attached historical records show, the missile crises began in May, with the Soviet decision to place nuclear missiles in Cuba in retaliation for US missiles in Turkey. The situation reached a critical stage in July when the Soviets actually shipped the missiles by freight ships. However, the effort was soon exposed by the US and it reacted to the situation in gradual steps, which reached a threatening level in October. The situation was then defused in the waning days of October with the missiles returned to the Soviet Union, while the US missiles in Turkey were dismantled in the following month.The associated graph shows these contacts clearly. Interestingly, the natal Mercury in the SAMVA USA chart is at 12° 06' Capricorn. Importantly, the conjunction took place in the 7th house of foreign policy for the USA. The final conjunction of Saturn and Ketu took place at 11° 50' in Capricorn on 25 October 1962.As you know from my previous post, the conjunction of Saturn and Ketu takes place at 11° 45' Leo on 24 October 2007 - almost forty five years to the day from the so-called "Cuban missile crisis". That said, as the conjunction does not take place on a sensitive placement in the SAMVA USA chart, it should not be so noticeable there, although some modest influence may be felt for 2nd house matters. Also, the conjunction has not happened before this year, and comes after the station of Ketu at 13° Leo has begun to unwind. The impact is therefore likley to be less and not involve a gradual development into a full blown crisis as was the case in 1962, but perhaps the development of some sudden problem, as is also the nature of Ketu.For the history buffs, the following text highlights the evolution of the crisis in 1962.Best wishes,ThorOctober 28, 1959 Turkey and the United States agree to deploy fifteen nuclear-tipped Jupiter missiles in Turkey starting on June 1, 1961. Turkey is member of NATO and shares a border with the Soviet Union.Late April 1962 While vacationing in the Crimea, across the Black sea from Turkey, Khrushchev reflects on the Turkish missiles and reportedly conceives the idea of deploying similar weapons in Cuba.ay 1962 Deliberations regarding the possible installation of missiles in Cuba continue in Moscow.May 8, 1962 A multi-service military exercise designed to test contingency planning for Cuba begins.May 30, 1962 After conferring with Raul Castro, Che Guevara, Osvaldo Dorticos and Blas Roca, Fidel Castro informs the visiting Soviet officials that Cuba will accept the deployment of nuclear weapons.July 15, 1962 Around this time, Soviet cargo ships begin moving out of the Black Sea for Cuba with false declarations of their destinations and reporting tonnages well below their capacities.August 10, 1962 After examining CIA reports on the movement of cargo ships from the Black and Baltic seas to Cuba, CIA Director John McCone dictates a memorandum for the President expressing the belief that Soviet MRBMs are destined for Cuba.August 23, 1962 President Kennedy calls a meeting of the National Security Council (NSC) to air John McCone's concerns that Soviet missiles were in the process of being introduced into Cuba.August 29, 1962 A high-altitude U-2 surveillance flight provides conclusive evidence of the existence of SA-2 SAM missile sites at eight different locations in Cuba.September 20, 1962 A Senate resolution on Cuba sanctioning the use of force, if necessary, to curb Cuban aggression and subversion in the western hemisphere, passes the Senate by a vote of eighty-six to one. The resolution states that the United States is determined "to prevent the creation or use of an externally supported offensive military capability endangering the security of the U.S." and to "support the aspirations of the Cuban people for a return to self-determination."October 14, 1962 Early morning: A U-2 aircraft flies over western Cuba from south to north. The reconnaissance mission, piloted by Major Richard Heyser, is the first Strategic Air Command (SAC) mission after authority for the flights is transferred from the CIA to the Air Force. The photographs obtained by the mission provide the first hard evidence of MRBM sites in Cuba. ( Bundy , p. 301)October 17, 1962 Morning: Adlai Stevenson writes to President Kennedy that world opinion would equate the U.S. missiles stationed in Turkey with Soviet bases in Cuba.October 25, 1962 1:45A.M.: A message from President Kennedy for Premier Khrushchev is transmitted to the U.S. embassy in Moscow. Acknowledging Khrushchev 's letter of October 24, Kennedy writes, "I regret very much that you still do not appear to understand what it is that has moved us in this matter..." Kennedy notes that he had received "solemn assurances" that no missiles bases would be established in Cuba. When these assurances proved false, the deployment of missiles in Cuba "required the responses I have announced...I hope that your government will take the necessary action to permit a restoration of the earlier situation." (Document 39, President Kennedy 's Letter to Premier Khrushchev , 10/25/62)October 26, 1962Nikita Khrushchev demands from the U.S. a removal of nuclear missiles in Turkey as well as a promise to not invade Cuba as preconditions for his removal of Soviet missiles on Cuba. President Kennedy replies that all work in Cuba must stop prior to any negotiations.October 27, 1962Night: Fidel Castro meets with Soviet Ambassador Alekseyev for lengthy discussions in the Soviet embassy in Havana. Castro, Alekseyev later reports, had been briefed by him on each of the messages sent back and forth between Moscow and Washington during the crisis. Alekseyev recalls that despite Castro's "characteristic restraint, he [Castro] also evaluated the situation as highly alarming." (Alekseyev, p. 16)October 29, 1962 Morning: Soviet First Deputy Premier Vasily V. Kuznetsov meets with U Thant. Kuznetsov, sent by Premier Khrushchev to New York to work out the details of a settlement to the crisis, tells U Thant that the Soviet missiles are in the process of being dismantled and shipped out of Cuba. Kuznetsov proposes that when the dismantling is completed, the Soviet Union report to the Security Council, which would then authorize a U.N. team to visit Cuba for "on-site" verification. (The Soviet Bloc Armed Forces and the Cuban Crisis: A Chronology July-November 1962, 6/18/63, p. 78)The Soviet Union attempts to hammer out a formal agreement with the United States on the settlement of the missile crisis. Anatoly Dobrynin brings Robert Kennedy an unsigned letter from Premier Khrushchev explicitly spelling out the terms of the arrangement, including Robert Kennedy 's pledge that the Jupiter IRBMs will be removed from Turkey. The attorney general makes no immediate response but takes the letter with him to consider the proposal. When he meets Dobrynin the following day, Kennedy rejects the idea of a written agreement involving the Jupiter missiles. (Schlesinger, pp. 522-23)November 1962 The United States removes its nuclear missiles from Turkey.http://www.nuclearfiles.org/menu/key-issues/nuclear-weapons/history/cold-war/cuban-missile-crisis/timeline.htmBe a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Answers - Check it out. 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Guest guest Posted May 19, 2007 Report Share Posted May 19, 2007 Dear Thor, Thanks for this heads-up. 2019 appears to be much heavier than 1962. How do we analyze if a war or attack takes place on the home soil? It would be affliction to H1/L1, and Sa/Aq right? Best regards, Vyas Munidas - " Cosmologer " <cosmologer <SAMVA > Saturday, May 19, 2007 2:21 PM Re: US-Soviet missile crisis in 1962 Dear Vyas, The transits will be somewhat similar in 2019, when the conjunction of Saturn and Ketu takes place in Sagittarius and H6 of SAMVA USA chart - conjunct natal L4 Venus. That would likely be a stressful time with regard to the indications of H6 and those of Venus in the chart. See also attached gif file. Best wishes, Thor Vyas Munidas <muni> wrote: Dear Thor, Very interesting post. Best regards, Vyas Munidas - " Cosmologer " To: Saturday, May 19, 2007 5:22 AM US-Soviet missile crisis in 1962 Dear friends, As a background to understanding better the Saturn-Ketu conjunction this autumn, it is helpful to review the conjunction of Saturn and Ketu in 1962 and what the salient difference is. In 1962, Saturn and Ketu became conjunct three times, In mid May, mid July and late October. The July conjunction occurred while Ketu was stationary at 16° Capricorn. The station then began to unwind in early October. As the attached historical records show, the missile crises began in May, with the Soviet decision to place nuclear missiles in Cuba in retaliation for US missiles in Turkey. The situation reached a critical stage in July when the Soviets actually shipped the missiles by freight ships. However, the effort was soon exposed by the US and it reacted to the situation in gradual steps, which reached a threatening level in October. The situation was then defused in the waning days of October with the missiles returned to the Soviet Union, while the US missiles in Turkey were dismantled in the following month. The associated graph shows these contacts clearly. Interestingly, the natal Mercury in the SAMVA USA chart is at 12° 06' Capricorn. Importantly, the conjunction took place in the 7th house of foreign policy for the USA. The final conjunction of Saturn and Ketu took place at 11° 50' in Capricorn on 25 October 1962. As you know from my previous post, the conjunction of Saturn and Ketu takes place at 11° 45' Leo on 24 October 2007 - almost forty five years to the day from the so-called " Cuban missile crisis " . That said, as the conjunction does not take place on a sensitive placement in the SAMVA USA chart, it should not be so noticeable there, although some modest influence may be felt for 2nd house matters. Also, the conjunction has not happened before this year, and comes after the station of Ketu at 13° Leo has begun to unwind. The impact is therefore likley to be less and not involve a gradual development into a full blown crisis as was the case in 1962, but perhaps the development of some sudden problem, as is also the nature of Ketu. For the history buffs, the following text highlights the evolution of the crisis in 1962. Best wishes, Thor October 28, 1959 Turkey and the United States agree to deploy fifteen nuclear-tipped Jupiter missiles in Turkey starting on June 1, 1961. Turkey is member of NATO and shares a border with the Soviet Union. Late April 1962 While vacationing in the Crimea, across the Black sea from Turkey, Khrushchev reflects on the Turkish missiles and reportedly conceives the idea of deploying similar weapons in Cuba. ay 1962 Deliberations regarding the possible installation of missiles in Cuba continue in Moscow. May 8, 1962 A multi-service military exercise designed to test contingency planning for Cuba begins. May 30, 1962 After conferring with Raul Castro, Che Guevara, Osvaldo Dorticos and Blas Roca, Fidel Castro informs the visiting Soviet officials that Cuba will accept the deployment of nuclear weapons. July 15, 1962 Around this time, Soviet cargo ships begin moving out of the Black Sea for Cuba with false declarations of their destinations and reporting tonnages well below their capacities. August 10, 1962 After examining CIA reports on the movement of cargo ships from the Black and Baltic seas to Cuba, CIA Director John McCone dictates a memorandum for the President expressing the belief that Soviet MRBMs are destined for Cuba. August 23, 1962 President Kennedy calls a meeting of the National Security Council (NSC) to air John McCone's concerns that Soviet missiles were in the process of being introduced into Cuba. August 29, 1962 A high-altitude U-2 surveillance flight provides conclusive evidence of the existence of SA-2 SAM missile sites at eight different locations in Cuba. September 20, 1962 A Senate resolution on Cuba sanctioning the use of force, if necessary, to curb Cuban aggression and subversion in the western hemisphere, passes the Senate by a vote of eighty-six to one. The resolution states that the United States is determined " to prevent the creation or use of an externally supported offensive military capability endangering the security of the U.S. " and to " support the aspirations of the Cuban people for a return to self-determination. " October 14, 1962 Early morning: A U-2 aircraft flies over western Cuba from south to north. The reconnaissance mission, piloted by Major Richard Heyser, is the first Strategic Air Command (SAC) mission after authority for the flights is transferred from the CIA to the Air Force. The photographs obtained by the mission provide the first hard evidence of MRBM sites in Cuba. ( Bundy , p. 301) October 17, 1962 Morning: Adlai Stevenson writes to President Kennedy that world opinion would equate the U.S. missiles stationed in Turkey with Soviet bases in Cuba. October 25, 1962 1:45A.M.: A message from President Kennedy for Premier Khrushchev is transmitted to the U.S. embassy in Moscow. Acknowledging Khrushchev 's letter of October 24, Kennedy writes, " I regret very much that you still do not appear to understand what it is that has moved us in this matter... " Kennedy notes that he had received " solemn assurances " that no missiles bases would be established in Cuba. When these assurances proved false, the deployment of missiles in Cuba " required the responses I have announced...I hope that your government will take the necessary action to permit a restoration of the earlier situation. " (Document 39, President Kennedy 's Letter to Premier Khrushchev , 10/25/62) October 26, 1962 Nikita Khrushchev demands from the U.S. a removal of nuclear missiles in Turkey as well as a promise to not invade Cuba as preconditions for his removal of Soviet missiles on Cuba. President Kennedy replies that all work in Cuba must stop prior to any negotiations. October 27, 1962 Night: Fidel Castro meets with Soviet Ambassador Alekseyev for lengthy discussions in the Soviet embassy in Havana. Castro, Alekseyev later reports, had been briefed by him on each of the messages sent back and forth between Moscow and Washington during the crisis. Alekseyev recalls that despite Castro's " characteristic restraint, he [Castro] also evaluated the situation as highly alarming. " (Alekseyev, p. 16) October 29, 1962 Morning: Soviet First Deputy Premier Vasily V. Kuznetsov meets with U Thant. Kuznetsov, sent by Premier Khrushchev to New York to work out the details of a settlement to the crisis, tells U Thant that the Soviet missiles are in the process of being dismantled and shipped out of Cuba. Kuznetsov proposes that when the dismantling is completed, the Soviet Union report to the Security Council, which would then authorize a U.N. team to visit Cuba for " on-site " verification. (The Soviet Bloc Armed Forces and the Cuban Crisis: A Chronology July-November 1962, 6/18/63, p. 78) The Soviet Union attempts to hammer out a formal agreement with the United States on the settlement of the missile crisis. Anatoly Dobrynin brings Robert Kennedy an unsigned letter from Premier Khrushchev explicitly spelling out the terms of the arrangement, including Robert Kennedy 's pledge that the Jupiter IRBMs will be removed from Turkey. The attorney general makes no immediate response but takes the letter with him to consider the proposal. When he meets Dobrynin the following day, Kennedy rejects the idea of a written agreement involving the Jupiter missiles. (Schlesinger, pp. 522-23) November 1962 The United States removes its nuclear missiles from Turkey. http://www.nuclearfiles.org/menu/key-issues/nuclear-weapons/history/cold-war/cub\ an-missile-crisis/timeline.htm Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Answers - Check it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2007 Report Share Posted May 19, 2007 Dear Vyas,I attach some charts and information to help you sort through that question.I would think the events to consider with respect to your question are the start of the Civil War, the attack on Pearl Harbour and "9/11". The period and transit combination needs to be studied carefully.Best wishes,ThorVyas Munidas <muni> wrote: Dear Thor,Thanks for this heads-up. 2019 appears to be much heavier than 1962.How do we analyze if a war or attack takes place on the home soil? It would be affliction to H1/L1, and Sa/Aq right?Best regards,Vyas Munidas- "Cosmologer" Saturday, May 19, 2007 2:21 PMRe: US-Soviet missile crisis in 1962Dear Vyas,The transits will be somewhat similar in 2019, when the conjunction of Saturn and Ketu takes place in Sagittarius and H6 of SAMVA USA chart - conjunct natal L4 Venus. That would likely be a stressful time with regard to the indications of H6 and those of Venus in the chart. See also attached gif file.Best wishes,ThorVyas Munidas wrote: Dear Thor,Very interesting post.Best regards,Vyas Munidas- "Cosmologer"To:Saturday, May 19, 2007 5:22 AM US-Soviet missile crisis in 1962Dear friends,As a background to understanding better the Saturn-Ketu conjunction thisautumn, it is helpful to review the conjunction of Saturn and Ketu in 1962and what the salient difference is.In 1962, Saturn and Ketu became conjunct three times, In mid May, mid Julyand late October. The July conjunction occurred while Ketu was stationary at16° Capricorn. The station then began to unwind in early October. As theattached historical records show, the missile crises began in May, with theSoviet decision to place nuclear missiles in Cuba in retaliation for USmissiles in Turkey. The situation reached a critical stage in July when theSoviets actually shipped the missiles by freight ships. However, the effortwas soon exposed by the US and it reacted to the situation in gradual steps,which reached a threatening level in October. The situation was then defusedin the waning days of October with the missiles returned to the SovietUnion, while the US missiles in Turkey were dismantled in the followingmonth.The associated graph shows these contacts clearly. Interestingly, the natalMercury in the SAMVA USA chart is at 12° 06' Capricorn. Importantly, theconjunction took place in the 7th house of foreign policy for the USA. Thefinal conjunction of Saturn and Ketu took place at 11° 50' in Capricorn on25 October 1962.As you know from my previous post, the conjunction of Saturn and Ketu takesplace at 11° 45' Leo on 24 October 2007 - almost forty five years to the dayfrom the so-called "Cuban missile crisis". That said, as the conjunctiondoes not take place on a sensitive placement in the SAMVA USA chart, itshould not be so noticeable there, although some modest influence may befelt for 2nd house matters. Also, the conjunction has not happened beforethis year, and comes after the station of Ketu at 13° Leo has begun tounwind. The impact is therefore likley to be less and not involve a gradualdevelopment into a full blown crisis as was the case in 1962, but perhapsthe development of some sudden problem, as is also the nature of Ketu.For the history buffs, the following text highlights the evolution of thecrisis in 1962.Best wishes,ThorOctober 28, 1959 Turkey and the United States agree to deploy fifteennuclear-tipped Jupiter missiles in Turkey starting on June 1, 1961. Turkeyis member of NATO and shares a border with the Soviet Union.Late April 1962 While vacationing in the Crimea, across the Black sea from Turkey,Khrushchev reflects on the Turkish missiles and reportedly conceives theidea of deploying similar weapons in Cuba.ay 1962 Deliberations regarding the possible installation of missiles in Cubacontinue in Moscow.May 8, 1962 A multi-service military exercise designed to test contingency planningfor Cuba begins.May 30, 1962 After conferring with Raul Castro, Che Guevara, Osvaldo Dorticos and BlasRoca, Fidel Castro informs the visiting Soviet officials that Cuba willaccept the deployment of nuclear weapons.July 15, 1962 Around this time, Soviet cargo ships begin moving out of the Black Sea forCuba with false declarations of their destinations and reporting tonnageswell below their capacities.August 10, 1962 After examining CIA reports on the movement of cargo ships from the Blackand Baltic seas to Cuba, CIA Director John McCone dictates a memorandum forthe President expressing the belief that Soviet MRBMs are destined for Cuba.August 23, 1962 President Kennedy calls a meeting of the National Security Council (NSC) toair John McCone's concerns that Soviet missiles were in the process of beingintroduced into Cuba.August 29, 1962 A high-altitude U-2 surveillance flight provides conclusive evidence of theexistence of SA-2 SAM missile sites at eight different locations in Cuba.September 20, 1962 A Senate resolution on Cuba sanctioning the use of force, if necessary, tocurb Cuban aggression and subversion in the western hemisphere, passes theSenate by a vote of eighty-six to one. The resolution states that the UnitedStates is determined "to prevent the creation or use of an externallysupported offensive military capability endangering the security of theU.S." and to "support the aspirations of the Cuban people for a return toself-determination."October 14, 1962 Early morning: A U-2 aircraft flies over western Cuba from south to north.The reconnaissance mission, piloted by Major Richard Heyser, is the firstStrategic Air Command (SAC) mission after authority for the flights istransferred from the CIA to the Air Force. The photographs obtained by themission provide the first hard evidence of MRBM sites in Cuba. ( Bundy , p.301)October 17, 1962 Morning: Adlai Stevenson writes to President Kennedy thatworld opinion would equate the U.S. missiles stationed in Turkey with Sovietbases in Cuba.October 25, 1962 1:45A.M.: A message from President Kennedy for Premier Khrushchev istransmitted to the U.S. embassy in Moscow. Acknowledging Khrushchev 'sletter of October 24, Kennedy writes, "I regret very much that you still donot appear to understand what it is that has moved us in this matter..."Kennedy notes that he had received "solemn assurances" that no missilesbases would be established in Cuba. When these assurances proved false, thedeployment of missiles in Cuba "required the responses I have announced...Ihope that your government will take the necessary action to permit arestoration of the earlier situation." (Document 39, President Kennedy 'sLetter to Premier Khrushchev , 10/25/62)October 26, 1962Nikita Khrushchev demands from the U.S. a removal of nuclear missiles inTurkey as well as a promise to not invade Cuba as preconditions for hisremoval of Soviet missiles on Cuba. President Kennedy replies that all work in Cuba must stop prior to anynegotiations.October 27, 1962Night: Fidel Castro meets with Soviet Ambassador Alekseyev for lengthydiscussions in the Soviet embassy in Havana. Castro, Alekseyev laterreports, had been briefed by him on each of the messages sent back and forthbetween Moscow and Washington during the crisis. Alekseyev recalls thatdespite Castro's "characteristic restraint, he [Castro] also evaluated thesituation as highly alarming." (Alekseyev, p. 16)October 29, 1962 Morning: Soviet First Deputy Premier Vasily V. Kuznetsov meets with UThant. Kuznetsov, sent by Premier Khrushchev to New York to work out thedetails of a settlement to the crisis, tells U Thant that the Sovietmissiles are in the process of being dismantled and shipped out of Cuba.Kuznetsov proposes that when the dismantling is completed, the Soviet Unionreport to the Security Council, which would then authorize a U.N. team tovisit Cuba for "on-site" verification. (The Soviet Bloc Armed Forces and theCuban Crisis: A Chronology July-November 1962, 6/18/63, p. 78)The Soviet Union attempts to hammer out a formal agreement with the UnitedStates on the settlement of the missile crisis. Anatoly Dobrynin bringsRobert Kennedy an unsigned letter from Premier Khrushchev explicitlyspelling out the terms of the arrangement, including Robert Kennedy 'spledge that the Jupiter IRBMs will be removed from Turkey. The attorneygeneral makes no immediate response but takes the letter with him toconsider the proposal. When he meets Dobrynin the following day, Kennedyrejects the idea of a written agreement involving the Jupiter missiles.(Schlesinger, pp. 522-23)November 1962 The United States removes its nuclear missiles from Turkey.http://www.nuclearfiles.org/menu/key-issues/nuclear-weapons/history/cold-war/cuban-missile-crisis/timeline.htmBe a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone whoknows. Answers - Check it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2007 Report Share Posted May 19, 2007 Dear Thor, Thanks Thor. Best regards, Vyas Munidas - " Cosmologer " <cosmologer <SAMVA > Saturday, May 19, 2007 5:57 PM Re: US-Soviet missile crisis in 1962 Dear Vyas, I attach some charts and information to help you sort through that question. I would think the events to consider with respect to your question are the start of the Civil War, the attack on Pearl Harbour and " 9/11 " . The period and transit combination needs to be studied carefully. Best wishes, Thor Vyas Munidas <muni> wrote: Dear Thor, Thanks for this heads-up. 2019 appears to be much heavier than 1962. How do we analyze if a war or attack takes place on the home soil? It would be affliction to H1/L1, and Sa/Aq right? Best regards, Vyas Munidas - " Cosmologer " To: Saturday, May 19, 2007 2:21 PM Re: US-Soviet missile crisis in 1962 Dear Vyas, The transits will be somewhat similar in 2019, when the conjunction of Saturn and Ketu takes place in Sagittarius and H6 of SAMVA USA chart - conjunct natal L4 Venus. That would likely be a stressful time with regard to the indications of H6 and those of Venus in the chart. See also attached gif file. Best wishes, Thor Vyas Munidas wrote: Dear Thor, Very interesting post. Best regards, Vyas Munidas - " Cosmologer " To: Saturday, May 19, 2007 5:22 AM US-Soviet missile crisis in 1962 Dear friends, As a background to understanding better the Saturn-Ketu conjunction this autumn, it is helpful to review the conjunction of Saturn and Ketu in 1962 and what the salient difference is. In 1962, Saturn and Ketu became conjunct three times, In mid May, mid July and late October. The July conjunction occurred while Ketu was stationary at 16° Capricorn. The station then began to unwind in early October. As the attached historical records show, the missile crises began in May, with the Soviet decision to place nuclear missiles in Cuba in retaliation for US missiles in Turkey. The situation reached a critical stage in July when the Soviets actually shipped the missiles by freight ships. However, the effort was soon exposed by the US and it reacted to the situation in gradual steps, which reached a threatening level in October. The situation was then defused in the waning days of October with the missiles returned to the Soviet Union, while the US missiles in Turkey were dismantled in the following month. The associated graph shows these contacts clearly. Interestingly, the natal Mercury in the SAMVA USA chart is at 12° 06' Capricorn. Importantly, the conjunction took place in the 7th house of foreign policy for the USA. The final conjunction of Saturn and Ketu took place at 11° 50' in Capricorn on 25 October 1962. As you know from my previous post, the conjunction of Saturn and Ketu takes place at 11° 45' Leo on 24 October 2007 - almost forty five years to the day from the so-called " Cuban missile crisis " . That said, as the conjunction does not take place on a sensitive placement in the SAMVA USA chart, it should not be so noticeable there, although some modest influence may be felt for 2nd house matters. Also, the conjunction has not happened before this year, and comes after the station of Ketu at 13° Leo has begun to unwind. The impact is therefore likley to be less and not involve a gradual development into a full blown crisis as was the case in 1962, but perhaps the development of some sudden problem, as is also the nature of Ketu. For the history buffs, the following text highlights the evolution of the crisis in 1962. Best wishes, Thor October 28, 1959 Turkey and the United States agree to deploy fifteen nuclear-tipped Jupiter missiles in Turkey starting on June 1, 1961. Turkey is member of NATO and shares a border with the Soviet Union. Late April 1962 While vacationing in the Crimea, across the Black sea from Turkey, Khrushchev reflects on the Turkish missiles and reportedly conceives the idea of deploying similar weapons in Cuba. ay 1962 Deliberations regarding the possible installation of missiles in Cuba continue in Moscow. May 8, 1962 A multi-service military exercise designed to test contingency planning for Cuba begins. May 30, 1962 After conferring with Raul Castro, Che Guevara, Osvaldo Dorticos and Blas Roca, Fidel Castro informs the visiting Soviet officials that Cuba will accept the deployment of nuclear weapons. July 15, 1962 Around this time, Soviet cargo ships begin moving out of the Black Sea for Cuba with false declarations of their destinations and reporting tonnages well below their capacities. August 10, 1962 After examining CIA reports on the movement of cargo ships from the Black and Baltic seas to Cuba, CIA Director John McCone dictates a memorandum for the President expressing the belief that Soviet MRBMs are destined for Cuba. August 23, 1962 President Kennedy calls a meeting of the National Security Council (NSC) to air John McCone's concerns that Soviet missiles were in the process of being introduced into Cuba. August 29, 1962 A high-altitude U-2 surveillance flight provides conclusive evidence of the existence of SA-2 SAM missile sites at eight different locations in Cuba. September 20, 1962 A Senate resolution on Cuba sanctioning the use of force, if necessary, to curb Cuban aggression and subversion in the western hemisphere, passes the Senate by a vote of eighty-six to one. The resolution states that the United States is determined " to prevent the creation or use of an externally supported offensive military capability endangering the security of the U.S. " and to " support the aspirations of the Cuban people for a return to self-determination. " October 14, 1962 Early morning: A U-2 aircraft flies over western Cuba from south to north. The reconnaissance mission, piloted by Major Richard Heyser, is the first Strategic Air Command (SAC) mission after authority for the flights is transferred from the CIA to the Air Force. The photographs obtained by the mission provide the first hard evidence of MRBM sites in Cuba. ( Bundy , p. 301) October 17, 1962 Morning: Adlai Stevenson writes to President Kennedy that world opinion would equate the U.S. missiles stationed in Turkey with Soviet bases in Cuba. October 25, 1962 1:45A.M.: A message from President Kennedy for Premier Khrushchev is transmitted to the U.S. embassy in Moscow. Acknowledging Khrushchev 's letter of October 24, Kennedy writes, " I regret very much that you still do not appear to understand what it is that has moved us in this matter... " Kennedy notes that he had received " solemn assurances " that no missiles bases would be established in Cuba. When these assurances proved false, the deployment of missiles in Cuba " required the responses I have announced...I hope that your government will take the necessary action to permit a restoration of the earlier situation. " (Document 39, President Kennedy 's Letter to Premier Khrushchev , 10/25/62) October 26, 1962 Nikita Khrushchev demands from the U.S. a removal of nuclear missiles in Turkey as well as a promise to not invade Cuba as preconditions for his removal of Soviet missiles on Cuba. President Kennedy replies that all work in Cuba must stop prior to any negotiations. October 27, 1962 Night: Fidel Castro meets with Soviet Ambassador Alekseyev for lengthy discussions in the Soviet embassy in Havana. Castro, Alekseyev later reports, had been briefed by him on each of the messages sent back and forth between Moscow and Washington during the crisis. Alekseyev recalls that despite Castro's " characteristic restraint, he [Castro] also evaluated the situation as highly alarming. " (Alekseyev, p. 16) October 29, 1962 Morning: Soviet First Deputy Premier Vasily V. Kuznetsov meets with U Thant. Kuznetsov, sent by Premier Khrushchev to New York to work out the details of a settlement to the crisis, tells U Thant that the Soviet missiles are in the process of being dismantled and shipped out of Cuba. Kuznetsov proposes that when the dismantling is completed, the Soviet Union report to the Security Council, which would then authorize a U.N. team to visit Cuba for " on-site " verification. (The Soviet Bloc Armed Forces and the Cuban Crisis: A Chronology July-November 1962, 6/18/63, p. 78) The Soviet Union attempts to hammer out a formal agreement with the United States on the settlement of the missile crisis. Anatoly Dobrynin brings Robert Kennedy an unsigned letter from Premier Khrushchev explicitly spelling out the terms of the arrangement, including Robert Kennedy 's pledge that the Jupiter IRBMs will be removed from Turkey. The attorney general makes no immediate response but takes the letter with him to consider the proposal. When he meets Dobrynin the following day, Kennedy rejects the idea of a written agreement involving the Jupiter missiles. (Schlesinger, pp. 522-23) November 1962 The United States removes its nuclear missiles from Turkey. http://www.nuclearfiles.org/menu/key-issues/nuclear-weapons/history/cold-war/cub\ an-missile-crisis/timeline.htm Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Answers - Check it out. 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