Update on US financial market, and more

[Guest guest]

Dear John,

I can't say for sure that the 2008 elections will be canceled or called off, but I do see similarities in the presidential election day charts for 2000, 2004, and 2008. As you recall, 2000's election hinged on a Florida recount and a U.S. Supreme Court decision. Bush won even though he didn't have the majority of popular votes that Gore had. 2004's election hinged on charges of voting irregularities in Ohio which eventually was conceded by Kerry to Bush.

 

In all three elections years, 2000, 2004, and 2008:

-transiting L6 Jupiter afflicts natal L3 Mercury causing communication issues and controversial charges

-natal Jupiter afflicts transiting L8 Saturn causing delays and obstacles

-natal or transiting L4 Venus is afflicted causing domestic unrest

-transiting L2 Sun is afflicted causing problems surrounding the head of state and status

 

Jupiter is the subperiod lord for the 2008 year making its involvement a bit more ominous...

Warm regards,Shayn

 

Dr. John D. Andre <DrJDAndreSAMVA Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 12:39:58 PM Update on US financial market, and more

 

Hello Professor & Group:Using this technique and this chart for the USA, I am wondering if anyone sees the possibility of the USA Nov. 2008 elections being canceled or called off for any reason? Warm Regards, John============ ========= ========= ========= ========= =======Cosmologer wrote:

 

 

Dear Shayn,

 

Thanks for adding that interesting information about the important Presidential elections that will take place on 4 November 2008. It is interesting the transit connections to the SAMVA USA chart are pinpointing the time of the national conventions around labour day weekend as a peak of tension. There are other points of tension to note that fall, notably:

 

- transit L8 Saturn becomes exactly conjunct H2 MEP on 21 September- the transit nodes finally pass over the exact conjunction of natal Sun on 30 September - transit L6 Jupiter becomes exactly conjunct H6 MEP on 9 October- the nodes become exactly conjunct H7 and H1 MEPs on 2 November- transit L6 Jupiter becomes exactly conjunct L4 Venus in H6 on 8 November

 

Moreover, the chart for election day, 4 November 2008, shows that many of the above influences will be felt on that day. Interestingly, L4 Venus will be afflicted both natally and in transit on that day, when also transit L2 Sun is conjunct natal Ketu in H4. This suggests the election will be strongly contested and disturbing of the collective harmony.

 

Best wishes,

 

Thor

[Guest guest]

Dear John,

 

You ask a rather provocative question. In my view, there is scant natal promise in the SAMVA USA chart for a cancellation of a Presidential election if it presumes a change in the political structure of the USA. This assessment owes to the strong L1 Moon, L2 Sun and L10 Mars in the chart. They suggest forms of government that are both robust and benign. The affliction of L6 Jupiter to L1 Moon gives some contentiousness and the affliction of L8 Saturn to L2 Sun gives obstacles or endings to the leader of the country or the wealth and status of the country. It could also suggest some misuse of power.

 

However, if some special event were to occur it is not inconceivable to imagine that it could have repercussions such as a delay in the vote. For instance, if harm were to befall the Head of State or an important political figure on the eve of elections, it could result in some disruption, although history shows the political structure is efficient in dealing with such events. To shed light on this question, I examined earlier incidences of a STATIONARY nodal affliction to the natal L2 Sun as will be the case during the summer of 2008.

 

Interestingly, I discovered a similar astrological configuration present during the election year of 1968 when civil rights leader Martin Luther King and Robert Francis Kennedy, who was then actively seeking the nomination of the Democratic Party to be the candidate of the Party for the Presidency were killed on 4 April 1969 and 5 June 1968, respectively. Sa/Ra/Me period was operating. Transit Ketu at 25°-23° Virgo H3 was stationary aspecting natal L2 Sun at 23° 45' Capricorn H7. Natally, L8 Saturn aspects L2 Sun, the signature of the many assassinations and assassination attempts of US political leaders. Transit L8 Saturn was conjunct transit Rahu in Pisces H9 and transit Rahu was aspecting natal L8 Saturn. These murders had no effect on the election schedule.

 

During the assassination of President John Fitzgerald Kennedy on 22 November 1963 the Sa/Su period was operating. At that time, transit L8 Saturn was exactly conjunct the natal L2 Sun in the chart. Also, transit Rahu at 18° Gemini H12 was under the close aspect of natal Ketu in Libra H4. This configuration is similar to the configuration that takes place in the summer of 2008, although it does not imply a similar event. The assassination had no impact on the Office of the President, with the Vice President Lyndon Baines Johnson being sworn in within an hour of the announcement of President Kennedy having died from his wounds.

 

Interestingly, when Richard Nixon resigned on 8 August 1974 transit Ketu at 23° Taurus H11 was aspecting natal L2 Sun. In the months leading up to the resigination, the nodes had been stationary on top of natal L8 Saturn, thus activating the karma for obstacles and endings influencing the leader of the country! Vice President Gerald Ford was then sworn in as 40th President of the USA.

 

In looking at the transits and periods at work in the SAMVA USA chart when assassination attempts of US Presidents, which did not lead to injury or death, took place, the above natal signatures were not prominent. Rather, transit-to-transit contacts among FMs and/or other natal planets in the chart than L2 Sun were in evidience.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Presidential_assassination_attempts

 

In short, in my view, while some event may occur next year it is not likely to lead to a cancellation of the election.

 

Best wishes,

 

Thor

Dr. John D. Andre <DrJDAndreSAMVA Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 7:39:58 PM Update on US financial market, and moreHello Professor & Group:Using this technique and this chart for the USA, I am wondering if anyone sees the possibility of the USA Nov. 2008 elections being canceled or called off for any reason? Warm Regards, John=======================================================Cosmologer wrote:

 

 

Dear Shayn,

 

Thanks for adding that interesting information about the important Presidential elections that will take place on 4 November 2008. It is interesting the transit connections to the SAMVA USA chart are pinpointing the time of the national conventions around labour day weekend as a peak of tension. There are other points of tension to note that fall, notably:

 

- transit L8 Saturn becomes exactly conjunct H2 MEP on 21 September- the transit nodes finally pass over the exact conjunction of natal Sun on 30 September - transit L6 Jupiter becomes exactly conjunct H6 MEP on 9 October- the nodes become exactly conjunct H7 and H1 MEPs on 2 November- transit L6 Jupiter becomes exactly conjunct L4 Venus in H6 on 8 November

 

Moreover, the chart for election day, 4 November 2008, shows that many of the above influences will be felt on that day. Interestingly, L4 Venus will be afflicted both natally and in transit on that day, when also transit L2 Sun is conjunct natal Ketu in H4. This suggests the election will be strongly contested and disturbing of the collective harmony.

 

Best wishes,

 

Thor

 

Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

[Guest guest]

Hello Thor & Shayn:

 

My sincere thanks to you both for sharing your knowledge and insight on

this subject. Personally, I really hope you are both correct. The

changes which have been enacted into law since 11 Sept. 2001 are

sweeping and ominous, to say the least. I've watched these changes

closely, and am of the opinion that the USA may be only one event away

from martial law, which could easily evolve into a dictatorship. It

hurts the heart.

 

Warm Regards, John

===================================================

Cosmologer wrote:

 

 

 

 

Dear

John,

 

You

ask a rather provocative question. In my view, there is scant natal

promise in the SAMVA USA chart for a cancellation of a Presidential

election if it presumes a change in the political structure

of the USA. This assessment owes to the strong L1 Moon, L2 Sun and L10

Mars in the chart. They suggest forms of government that are both

robust and benign. The affliction of L6 Jupiter to L1 Moon gives some

contentiousness and the affliction of L8 Saturn to L2 Sun

gives obstacles or endings to the leader of the country or the wealth

and status of the country. It could also suggest some misuse of power.

 

However, if

some special event were to occur it is not inconceivable to

imagine that it could have repercussions such as a delay in the vote.

For instance, if harm were to befall the Head of State or an

important political figure on the eve of elections, it could result in

some disruption, although history shows the political structure is

efficient in dealing with such events. To shed light on this question,

I examined earlier incidences of a STATIONARY nodal affliction to the

natal L2 Sun as will be the case during the summer of 2008.

 

Interestingly,

I discovered a similar astrological configuration present during the

election year of 1968 when civil rights leader Martin Luther King and

Robert Francis Kennedy, who was then actively seeking the nomination of

the Democratic Party to be the candidate of the Party

for the Presidency were killed on 4 April 1969 and 5 June 1968,

respectively. Sa/Ra/Me period was operating. Transit Ketu at 25°-23°

Virgo H3 was stationary aspecting natal L2 Sun at 23° 45' Capricorn

H7. Natally, L8 Saturn aspects L2 Sun, the signature of the many

assassinations and assassination attempts of US political leaders.

Transit L8 Saturn was conjunct transit Rahu in Pisces H9 and transit

Rahu was aspecting natal L8 Saturn. These murders had no effect on the

election schedule.

 

During

the assassination of President John Fitzgerald Kennedy on 22 November

1963 the Sa/Su period was operating. At that time, transit L8 Saturn

was exactly conjunct the natal L2 Sun in the chart. Also, transit Rahu

at 18° Gemini H12 was under the close aspect of natal Ketu in Libra H4.

This configuration is similar to the configuration that takes place in

the summer of 2008, although it does not imply a similar event. The

assassination had no impact on the Office of the President, with the

Vice President Lyndon Baines Johnson being sworn in within an hour of

the announcement of President Kennedy having died from his wounds.

 

Interestingly,

when Richard Nixon resigned on 8 August 1974 transit Ketu at 23° Taurus

H11 was aspecting natal L2 Sun. In the months leading up to the

resigination, the nodes had been stationary on top of natal L8 Saturn,

thus activating the karma for obstacles and endings influencing the

leader of the country! Vice President Gerald Ford was then sworn in as

40th President of the USA.

 

In

looking at the transits and periods at work in the SAMVA USA chart when

assassination attempts of US Presidents, which did not lead to injury

or death, took place, the above natal signatures were not

prominent. Rather, transit-to-transit contacts among FMs and/or other

natal planets in the chart than L2 Sun were in evidience.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Presidential_assassination_attempts

 

In

short, in my view, while some event may occur next year it is not

likely to lead to a cancellation of the election.

 

Best

wishes,

 

Thor

[Guest guest]

Hello Dr. Andre, The planetary position in November 2008 is quite difficult for US but the elections may not be cancelled or postponed.

 

US Presidential candidates with Cancer or Taurus or Capricorn rising will have almost no chance of winning the elections. One with Leo, Libra or Saggitarius rising stands a better chance. Best wishes.

 

 

 

 

-

Dr. John D. Andre

SAMVA

Sunday, November 25, 2007 1:09 AM

Update on US financial market, and more

Hello Professor & Group:Using this technique and this chart for the USA, I am wondering if anyone sees the possibility of the USA Nov. 2008 elections being canceled or called off for any reason? Warm Regards, John=======================================================Cosmologer wrote:

 

Dear Shayn,

 

Thanks for adding that interesting information about the important Presidential elections that will take place on 4 November 2008. It is interesting the transit connections to the SAMVA USA chart are pinpointing the time of the national conventions around labour day weekend as a peak of tension. There are other points of tension to note that fall, notably:

 

- transit L8 Saturn becomes exactly conjunct H2 MEP on 21 September- the transit nodes finally pass over the exact conjunction of natal Sun on 30 September - transit L6 Jupiter becomes exactly conjunct H6 MEP on 9 October- the nodes become exactly conjunct H7 and H1 MEPs on 2 November- transit L6 Jupiter becomes exactly conjunct L4 Venus in H6 on 8 November

 

Moreover, the chart for election day, 4 November 2008, shows that many of the above influences will be felt on that day. Interestingly, L4 Venus will be afflicted both natally and in transit on that day, when also transit L2 Sun is conjunct natal Ketu in H4. This suggests the election will be strongly contested and disturbing of the collective harmony.

 

Best wishes,

 

Thor

[Guest guest]

Hello :

 

Many thanks for your kind and encouraging reply.

 

Warm Regards, John

============================================

 

siha wrote:

 

 

 

Hello Dr. Andre,

 

The planetary position in November 2008 is quite difficult for US

but the elections may not be cancelled or postponed.

 

US Presidential candidates with Cancer or Taurus or Capricorn

rising will have almost no chance of winning the elections. One with

Leo, Libra or Saggitarius rising stands a better chance.

 

Best wishes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-----

Original Message -----

 

Dr. John D. Andre

To:

SAMVA

Sent:

Sunday, November 25, 2007 1:09 AM

Subject:

Update on US financial market, and more

 

 

Hello Professor &

Group:

 

Using this technique and this chart for the USA, I am wondering if

anyone sees the possibility of the USA Nov. 2008 elections being

canceled or called off for any reason?

 

Warm Regards, John

=======================================================

Cosmologer wrote:

 

 

 

Dear

Shayn,

 

Thanks

for adding that interesting information about the important

Presidential elections that will take place on 4 November 2008. It is

interesting the transit connections to the SAMVA USA chart are

pinpointing the time of the national conventions around labour day

weekend as a peak of tension. There are other points of tension to note

that fall, notably:

 

-

transit L8 Saturn becomes exactly conjunct H2 MEP on 21 September

- the transit nodes finally pass over the exact conjunction of natal

Sun on 30 September

- transit L6 Jupiter becomes exactly conjunct H6 MEP on 9 October

- the nodes become exactly conjunct H7 and H1 MEPs on 2 November

- transit L6 Jupiter becomes exactly conjunct L4 Venus in H6 on 8

November

 

Moreover,

the chart for election day, 4 November 2008, shows that many of the

above influences will be felt on that day. Interestingly, L4 Venus will

be afflicted both natally and in transit on that day, when also transit

L2 Sun is conjunct natal Ketu in H4. This suggests the election will be

strongly contested and disturbing of the collective harmony.

 

Best

wishes,

 

Thor

[Guest guest]

Dear ,

I understand your reasoning. Ones with Cancer, Taurus, or Capricorn rising would have transiting FM Jupiter aspecting transiting Saturn. This would affect Mitt Romney and Bill Richardson.

 

Leo, Libra, and Sagittarius ascendants would have a strong transiting FB Jupiter. They include Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, Chrostopher Dodd, and Rudy Giuliani. Of course, this is all dependent on accurate birth times (see Thor's post of Sept 6, 2007). For some candidates, no birth times are available.

 

One correction to my post from yesterday...Election day 2008 doesn't share a tr. Jupiter aspect to n. Mercury, but Mercury's house will be afflicted.

 

Warm regards,Shayn

 

"siha" <sihaSAMVA Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 9:44:34 PMRe: Update on US financial market, and more

 

 

Hello Dr. Andre, The planetary position in November 2008 is quite difficult for US but the elections may not be cancelled or postponed.

 

US Presidential candidates with Cancer or Taurus or Capricorn rising will have almost no chance of winning the elections. One with Leo, Libra or Saggitarius rising stands a better chance. Best wishes.

 

 

 

 

-

Dr. John D. Andre

SAMVA

Sunday, November 25, 2007 1:09 AM

Update on US financial market, and more

Hello Professor & Group:Using this technique and this chart for the USA, I am wondering if anyone sees the possibility of the USA Nov. 2008 elections being canceled or called off for any reason? Warm Regards, John============ ========= ========= ========= ========= =======Cosmologer wrote:

 

 

Dear Shayn,

 

Thanks for adding that interesting information about the important Presidential elections that will take place on 4 November 2008. It is interesting the transit connections to the SAMVA USA chart are pinpointing the time of the national conventions around labour day weekend as a peak of tension. There are other points of tension to note that fall, notably:

 

- transit L8 Saturn becomes exactly conjunct H2 MEP on 21 September- the transit nodes finally pass over the exact conjunction of natal Sun on 30 September - transit L6 Jupiter becomes exactly conjunct H6 MEP on 9 October- the nodes become exactly conjunct H7 and H1 MEPs on 2 November- transit L6 Jupiter becomes exactly conjunct L4 Venus in H6 on 8 November

 

Moreover, the chart for election day, 4 November 2008, shows that many of the above influences will be felt on that day. Interestingly, L4 Venus will be afflicted both natally and in transit on that day, when also transit L2 Sun is conjunct natal Ketu in H4. This suggests the election will be strongly contested and disturbing of the collective harmony.

 

Best wishes,

 

Thor

[Guest guest]

Hi Shayn, I use Juneau, Alaska @ 8:00 p.m. on November 4, 2008 for the close of the "popular" voting in the 50 States. [Honolulu, Hawaii, further west, closes at 6:00 p.m.] However, the quadrennial U.S. presidential election isn't over until it's over, which is on the Constitutional election day, the day of the Electoral College, which falls "on the first Monday after the second Tuesday" in December. For the election of 2008, that falls on December 15 @ 12:00 noon in each of the 50 state capitals. Given the time zone spread, Hawaii is the 50th State to cast ballots on that day at noon. The Electoral College votes are counted during a joint session of the U.S. Congress, held in early January 2009. As I suspect you already know, a small number of candidates in the 19th and 20th centuries has won in November and lost in

December. Only the December votes are counted at the finish line. Cheers, JohnTWBShayn Smith <mactunesmith wrote: Dear , I understand your reasoning. Ones with Cancer, Taurus, or Capricorn rising would have transiting FM Jupiter aspecting transiting Saturn. This would affect Mitt Romney and Bill Richardson. Leo, Libra, and Sagittarius ascendants would have a strong transiting FB Jupiter. They include Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, Chrostopher Dodd, and Rudy Giuliani. Of course, this is all dependent on accurate birth times (see Thor's post of Sept 6, 2007). For some candidates, no birth times are available. One correction to my post from yesterday...Election day 2008 doesn't share a tr. Jupiter aspect to n. Mercury, but Mercury's house will be afflicted. Warm regards,Shayn "siha (AT) yournetastrologer (DOT) com" <siha (AT) yournetastrologer (DOT) com>SAMVA Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 9:44:34 PMRe:

Update on US financial market, and more Hello Dr. Andre, The planetary position in November 2008 is quite difficult for US but the elections may not be cancelled or postponed. US Presidential candidates with Cancer or Taurus or Capricorn rising will have almost no chance of winning the elections. One with Leo, Libra or Saggitarius rising stands a better chance. Best wishes. - Dr. John D. Andre SAMVA Sunday, November 25, 2007 1:09 AM Update on US financial market, and more Hello Professor & Group:Using this technique and this chart for the USA, I am wondering if anyone sees the possibility of the USA Nov. 2008 elections being canceled or called off for any reason? Warm Regards, John============ ========= ========= ========= ========= =======Cosmologer wrote: Dear Shayn, Thanks for adding that interesting information about the important Presidential elections that will take place on 4 November 2008. It is interesting the transit connections to the SAMVA USA chart are pinpointing the time of the national conventions around labour day weekend as a peak of tension. There are other points of tension to note that fall, notably: - transit L8 Saturn becomes exactly conjunct H2 MEP on 21 September- the transit nodes finally pass over the exact conjunction

of natal Sun on 30 September - transit L6 Jupiter becomes exactly conjunct H6 MEP on 9 October- the nodes become exactly conjunct H7 and H1 MEPs on 2 November- transit L6 Jupiter becomes exactly conjunct L4 Venus in H6 on 8 November Moreover, the chart for election day, 4 November 2008, shows that many of the above influences will be felt on that day. Interestingly, L4 Venus will be afflicted both natally and in transit on that day, when also transit L2 Sun is conjunct natal Ketu in H4. This suggests the election will be strongly contested and disturbing of the collective harmony. Best wishes, Thor & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & "You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the

ones you want to concentrate on."--- U.S. President George W. Bush, speaking at a Gridiron Club dinner, Washington, D.C., March 2001 "Time and the Ocean, and some guiding star and High Cabal have made us what we are." U.K. Prime Minister Winston Churchill, 3 October 1941"For nothing is hid that shall not be made manifest, nor anything secret that shall not be known and come to light... take heed then how you hear..." Luke 8:1718 "1913 was the final year of America's golden age: After indoor plumbing, but before the central bank and the income tax."R. J. Rushdoony"Paper is poverty, .... it is only the ghost of money, and not money itself." -- Thomas Jefferson, 1788"'Honest Abe' was the moniker given to Abraham Lincoln by his early associates and later political enemies, for the same reason that the biggest boy in a class is called 'Tiny'."

Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you with Mobile. Try it now.

[Guest guest]

Dear Shayn,

 

In addition to the aspect of FM Jupiter to Saturn we could note of

the fact that for

 

- Capricorn: the transit of L2 Saturn in Leo H8

- Cancer: the transit of L8 Saturn in Leo H2

 

would not be helpful for the progress of the career of these natives.

 

Best wishes,

 

Thor

 

SAMVA , Shayn Smith <mactunesmith wrote:

>

> Dear ,

> I understand your reasoning. Ones with Cancer, Taurus, or Capricorn

rising would have transiting FM Jupiter aspecting transiting Saturn.

This would affect Mitt Romney and Bill Richardson.

>

> Leo, Libra, and Sagittarius ascendants would have a strong

transiting FB Jupiter. They include Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton,

Chrostopher Dodd, and Rudy Giuliani. Of course, this is all dependent

on accurate birth times (see Thor's post of Sept 6, 2007). For some

candidates, no birth times are available.

>

> One correction to my post from yesterday...Election day 2008

doesn't share a tr. Jupiter aspect to n. Mercury, but Mercury's house

will be afflicted.

>

> Warm regards,

> Shayn

>

>

>

>

> " siha " <siha

> SAMVA

> Saturday, November 24, 2007 9:44:34 PM

> Re: Update on US financial market, and more

>

> Hello Dr. Andre,

>

> The planetary position in November 2008 is quite difficult for US

but the elections may not be cancelled or postponed.

>

> US Presidential candidates with Cancer or Taurus or Capricorn

rising will have almost no chance of winning the elections. One with

Leo, Libra or Saggitarius rising stands a better chance.

>

> Best wishes.

>

>

>

>

>

>

> -

> Dr. John D. Andre

> SAMVA

> Sunday, November 25, 2007 1:09 AM

> Update on US financial market, and more

>

>

> Hello Professor & Group:

>

> Using this technique and this chart for the USA, I am wondering if

anyone sees the possibility of the USA Nov. 2008 elections being

canceled or called off for any reason?

>

> Warm Regards, John

> ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= =======

> Cosmologer wrote:

> Dear Shayn,

>

> Thanks for adding that interesting information about the important

Presidential elections that will take place on 4 November 2008. It is

interesting the transit connections to the SAMVA USA chart are

pinpointing the time of the national conventions around labour day

weekend as a peak of tension. There are other points of tension to

note that fall, notably:

>

> - transit L8 Saturn becomes exactly conjunct H2 MEP on 21 September

> - the transit nodes finally pass over the exact conjunction of

natal Sun on 30 September

> - transit L6 Jupiter becomes exactly conjunct H6 MEP on 9 October

> - the nodes become exactly conjunct H7 and H1 MEPs on 2 November

> - transit L6 Jupiter becomes exactly conjunct L4 Venus in H6 on 8

November

>

> Moreover, the chart for election day, 4 November 2008, shows that

many of the above influences will be felt on that day. Interestingly,

L4 Venus will be afflicted both natally and in transit on that day,

when also transit L2 Sun is conjunct natal Ketu in H4. This suggests

the election will be strongly contested and disturbing of the

collective harmony.

>

> Best wishes,

>

> Thor

>

[Guest guest]

Hello John & Group:

 

May I suggest an additional chart for your consideration?

 

My logic is this: The race for the White House (etc.) is just that, a

race. In charting we like to look at beginnings. A race begins when

the starting gun goes off. IMO, in this case, that would be "at the

closing of filings" (which is the legal declaration of who is in the

race). As I see it, that is the starting gun - from that moment the

field is set and the race is on: March 1st, 2008 @ 5:00 PM, Washington,

D.C. I find this chart to be helpful.

 

Warmly, John

========================================================

JohnTWB wrote:

 

 

Hi Shayn,

 

I use Juneau, Alaska @ 8:00 p.m. on November 4, 2008 for the

close of the "popular" voting in the 50 States. [Honolulu, Hawaii,

further west, closes at 6:00 p.m.]

 

However, the quadrennial U.S. presidential election isn't over

until it's over, which is on the Constitutional election day, the day

of the Electoral College, which falls "on the first Monday after the

second Tuesday" in December. For the election of 2008, that falls on

December 15 @ 12:00 noon in each of the 50 state capitals. Given the

time zone spread, Hawaii is the 50th State to cast ballots on that day

at noon.

 

The Electoral College votes are counted during a joint session

of the U.S. Congress, held in early January 2009.

 

As I suspect you already know, a small number of candidates in

the 19th and 20th centuries has won in November and lost in December.

Only the December votes are counted at the finish line.

 

Cheers,

 

JohnTWB

[Guest guest]

Dear Thor,

Exactly! Not to mention that for Taurus, it's L10 (profession) would be afflicted in transit.

Warm regards,Shayn

 

cosmologer <cosmologerSAMVA Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 9:56:49 AM Re: Update on US financial market, and more

 

Dear Shayn,In addition to the aspect of FM Jupiter to Saturn we could note of the fact that for - Capricorn: the transit of L2 Saturn in Leo H8 - Cancer: the transit of L8 Saturn in Leo H2would not be helpful for the progress of the career of these natives.Best wishes,ThorSAMVA , Shayn Smith <mactunesmith@ ...> wrote:>> Dear ,> I understand your reasoning. Ones with Cancer, Taurus, or Capricorn rising would have transiting FM Jupiter aspecting transiting Saturn. This would affect Mitt Romney and Bill Richardson. > > Leo, Libra, and Sagittarius ascendants would have a strong transiting FB Jupiter. They include Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, Chrostopher Dodd, and Rudy Giuliani. Of course,

this is all dependent on accurate birth times (see Thor's post of Sept 6, 2007). For some candidates, no birth times are available.> > One correction to my post from yesterday... Election day 2008 doesn't share a tr. Jupiter aspect to n. Mercury, but Mercury's house will be afflicted.> > Warm regards,> Shayn> > > > > "siha" <siha> SAMVA > Saturday, November 24, 2007 9:44:34 PM> Re: Update on US financial market, and more> > Hello Dr. Andre,> > The planetary position in November 2008 is quite difficult for US but the elections may not be cancelled or postponed. > > US Presidential candidates with Cancer

or Taurus or Capricorn rising will have almost no chance of winning the elections. One with Leo, Libra or Saggitarius rising stands a better chance. > > Best wishes.> > > > > > > - > Dr. John D. Andre > SAMVA > Sunday, November 25, 2007 1:09 AM> Update on US financial market, and more> > > Hello Professor & Group:> > Using this technique and this chart for the USA, I am wondering if anyone sees the possibility of the USA Nov. 2008 elections being canceled or called off for any reason? > > Warm Regards, John> ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= =======> Cosmologer wrote: > Dear Shayn,> > Thanks for adding that interesting information about the important

Presidential elections that will take place on 4 November 2008. It is interesting the transit connections to the SAMVA USA chart are pinpointing the time of the national conventions around labour day weekend as a peak of tension. There are other points of tension to note that fall, notably:> > - transit L8 Saturn becomes exactly conjunct H2 MEP on 21 September> - the transit nodes finally pass over the exact conjunction of natal Sun on 30 September > - transit L6 Jupiter becomes exactly conjunct H6 MEP on 9 October> - the nodes become exactly conjunct H7 and H1 MEPs on 2 November> - transit L6 Jupiter becomes exactly conjunct L4 Venus in H6 on 8 November> > Moreover, the chart for election day, 4 November 2008, shows that many of the above influences will be felt on that day. Interestingly, L4 Venus will be afflicted both natally and in transit on that day,

when also transit L2 Sun is conjunct natal Ketu in H4. This suggests the election will be strongly contested and disturbing of the collective harmony.> > Best wishes,> > Thor>

[Guest guest]

Dear JohnTWB,

This is great information! I am wondering how it is used in chart construction? Do you also use the official start of voting which I have seen as Nov. 4, 2008, midnight, in Dixville Notch, New Hampshire?

 

Thanks...

Warm regards,Shayn

 

JohnTWB <blazingstar1776SAMVA Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 9:04:32 AMRe: Update on US financial market, and more

 

 

Hi Shayn,

 

I use Juneau, Alaska @ 8:00 p.m. on November 4, 2008 for the close of the "popular" voting in the 50 States. [Honolulu, Hawaii, further west, closes at 6:00 p.m.]

 

However, the quadrennial U.S. presidential election isn't over until it's over, which is on the Constitutional election day, the day of the Electoral College, which falls "on the first Monday after the second Tuesday" in December. For the election of 2008, that falls on December 15 @ 12:00 noon in each of the 50 state capitals. Given the time zone spread, Hawaii is the 50th State to cast ballots on that day at noon.

 

The Electoral College votes are counted during a joint session of the U.S. Congress, held in early January 2009.

 

As I suspect you already know, a small number of candidates in the 19th and 20th centuries has won in November and lost in December. Only the December votes are counted at the finish line.

 

Cheers,

 

JohnTWBShayn Smith <mactunesmith@ > wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

Dear ,

I understand your reasoning. Ones with Cancer, Taurus, or Capricorn rising would have transiting FM Jupiter aspecting transiting Saturn. This would affect Mitt Romney and Bill Richardson.

 

Leo, Libra, and Sagittarius ascendants would have a strong transiting FB Jupiter. They include Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, Chrostopher Dodd, and Rudy Giuliani. Of course, this is all dependent on accurate birth times (see Thor's post of Sept 6, 2007). For some candidates, no birth times are available.

 

One correction to my post from yesterday... Election day 2008 doesn't share a tr. Jupiter aspect to n. Mercury, but Mercury's house will be afflicted.

 

Warm regards,Shayn

 

"siha@yournetastrol oger.com" <siha@yournetastrolo ger.com>SAMVA Saturday, November 24, 2007 9:44:34 PMRe: Update on US financial market, and more

 

 

Hello Dr. Andre, The planetary position in November 2008 is quite difficult for US but the elections may not be cancelled or postponed.

 

US Presidential candidates with Cancer or Taurus or Capricorn rising will have almost no chance of winning the elections. One with Leo, Libra or Saggitarius rising stands a better chance. Best wishes.

 

 

 

 

-

Dr. John D. Andre

SAMVA

Sunday, November 25, 2007 1:09 AM

Update on US financial market, and more

Hello Professor & Group:Using this technique and this chart for the USA, I am wondering if anyone sees the possibility of the USA Nov. 2008 elections being canceled or called off for any reason? Warm Regards, John============ ========= ========= ========= ========= =======Cosmologer wrote:

 

 

Dear Shayn,

 

Thanks for adding that interesting information about the important Presidential elections that will take place on 4 November 2008. It is interesting the transit connections to the SAMVA USA chart are pinpointing the time of the national conventions around labour day weekend as a peak of tension. There are other points of tension to note that fall, notably:

 

- transit L8 Saturn becomes exactly conjunct H2 MEP on 21 September- the transit nodes finally pass over the exact conjunction of natal Sun on 30 September - transit L6 Jupiter becomes exactly conjunct H6 MEP on 9 October- the nodes become exactly conjunct H7 and H1 MEPs on 2 November- transit L6 Jupiter becomes exactly conjunct L4 Venus in H6 on 8 November

 

Moreover, the chart for election day, 4 November 2008, shows that many of the above influences will be felt on that day. Interestingly, L4 Venus will be afflicted both natally and in transit on that day, when also transit L2 Sun is conjunct natal Ketu in H4. This suggests the election will be strongly contested and disturbing of the collective harmony.

 

Best wishes,

 

Thor

 

 

& & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & "You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on."--- U.S. President George W. Bush, speaking at a Gridiron Club dinner, Washington, D.C., March 2001 "Time and the Ocean, and some guiding star and High Cabal have made us what we are." U.K. Prime Minister Winston Churchill, 3 October 1941"For nothing is hid that shall not be made manifest, nor anything secret that shall not be known and come to light... take heed then how you hear..." Luke 8:1718 "1913 was the final year of America's golden age: After indoor plumbing, but before the central bank and

the income tax."R. J. Rushdoony"Paper is poverty, .... it is only the ghost of money, and not money itself." -- Thomas Jefferson, 1788"'Honest Abe' was the moniker given to Abraham Lincoln by his early associates and later political enemies, for the same reason that the biggest boy in a class is called 'Tiny'."

 

 

Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you with Mobile. Try it now.

[Guest guest]

Dear Shayn, I'd use Honolulu, 12:00 noon, 15 December, in order to predict the "out-come", not the Nov 4 "in-go". The REAL election day is DECEMBER FIFTEEN 2008, just as it was in 1828, the first presidential election with popular (direct) voting [in October and November] throughout the states, before the Electoral College met on December 3 to decide the outcome. It's the OUTCOME in DECEMBER that counts; not the IN-GO in NOVEMBER. Just ask Al Gore; I think even he understands that now. Cheers, JOHN

Shayn Smith <mactunesmith wrote: Dear JohnTWB, This is great information! I am wondering how it is used in chart construction? Do you also use the official start of voting which I have seen as Nov. 4, 2008, midnight, in Dixville Notch, New Hampshire? Thanks... Warm regards,Shayn JohnTWB <blazingstar1776 >SAMVA Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 9:04:32 AMRe: Update on US financial market, and more Hi Shayn, I use Juneau, Alaska @ 8:00 p.m. on November 4, 2008 for the close of the "popular" voting in the 50 States. [Honolulu, Hawaii, further west, closes at 6:00 p.m.] However, the quadrennial U.S. presidential election isn't over until it's over, which is on the Constitutional election day, the day of the Electoral College, which falls "on the first Monday after the second Tuesday" in December. For the election of 2008, that falls on December 15 @ 12:00

noon in each of the 50 state capitals. Given the time zone spread, Hawaii is the 50th State to cast ballots on that day at noon. The Electoral College votes are counted during a joint session of the U.S. Congress, held in early January 2009. As I suspect you already know, a small number of candidates in the 19th and 20th centuries has won in November and lost in December. Only the December votes are counted at the finish line. Cheers, JohnTWBShayn Smith <mactunesmith@ > wrote: Dear , I understand your reasoning. Ones with

Cancer, Taurus, or Capricorn rising would have transiting FM Jupiter aspecting transiting Saturn. This would affect Mitt Romney and Bill Richardson. Leo, Libra, and Sagittarius ascendants would have a strong transiting FB Jupiter. They include Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, Chrostopher Dodd, and Rudy Giuliani. Of course, this is all dependent on accurate birth times (see Thor's post of Sept 6, 2007). For some candidates, no birth times are available. One correction to my post from yesterday... Election day 2008 doesn't share a tr. Jupiter aspect to n. Mercury, but Mercury's house will be afflicted. Warm regards,Shayn

"siha@yournetastrol oger.com" <siha@yournetastrolo ger.com>SAMVA Saturday, November 24, 2007 9:44:34 PMRe: Update on US financial market, and more Hello Dr. Andre, The planetary position in November 2008 is quite difficult for US but the elections may not be cancelled or postponed. US Presidential candidates with Cancer or Taurus or Capricorn rising will have almost no chance of winning the elections. One with Leo, Libra or Saggitarius rising stands a better chance. Best wishes. - Dr. John D. Andre SAMVA Sunday, November 25, 2007 1:09 AM Update on US financial market, and more Hello Professor & Group:Using this technique and this chart for the USA, I am wondering if anyone sees the possibility of the USA Nov. 2008 elections being canceled or called off for any reason?

Warm Regards, John============ ========= ========= ========= ========= =======Cosmologer wrote: Dear Shayn, Thanks for adding that interesting information about the important Presidential elections that will take place on 4 November 2008. It is interesting the transit connections to the SAMVA USA chart are pinpointing the time of the national conventions around labour day weekend as a peak of tension. There are other points of tension to note that fall, notably: - transit L8 Saturn becomes exactly conjunct H2 MEP on 21 September- the transit nodes finally pass over the exact conjunction of natal Sun on 30 September - transit L6 Jupiter becomes exactly conjunct H6 MEP on 9 October- the nodes become exactly conjunct H7 and H1 MEPs on 2 November- transit L6 Jupiter becomes exactly conjunct L4 Venus in H6 on 8 November Moreover, the chart for election day, 4 November 2008, shows that many of the above influences will be felt on that day. Interestingly, L4 Venus will be afflicted both natally and in transit on that day, when also transit L2 Sun is conjunct natal Ketu in H4. This

suggests the election will be strongly contested and disturbing of the collective harmony. Best wishes, Thor & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & "You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those

are the ones you want to concentrate on."--- U.S. President George W. Bush, speaking at a Gridiron Club dinner, Washington, D.C., March 2001 "Time and the Ocean, and some guiding star and High Cabal have made us what we are." U.K. Prime Minister Winston Churchill, 3 October 1941"For nothing is hid that shall not be made manifest, nor anything secret that shall not be known and come to light... take heed then how you hear..." Luke 8:1718 "1913 was the final year of America's golden age: After indoor plumbing, but before the central bank and the income tax."R. J. Rushdoony"Paper is poverty, .... it is only the ghost of money, and not money itself." -- Thomas Jefferson, 1788"'Honest Abe' was the moniker given to Abraham Lincoln by his early associates and later political enemies, for the same reason that the biggest boy in a class is called 'Tiny'." Be a better sports nut!

Let your teams follow you with Mobile. Try it now. & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & "You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on."--- U.S. President George W. Bush, speaking at a Gridiron Club dinner, Washington, D.C., March 2001 "Time and the Ocean, and some guiding star and High Cabal have made us what we are." U.K. Prime Minister Winston Churchill, 3 October

1941"For nothing is hid that shall not be made manifest, nor anything secret that shall not be known and come to light... take heed then how you hear..." Luke 8:1718 "1913 was the final year of America's golden age: After indoor plumbing, but before the central bank and the income tax."R. J. Rushdoony"Paper is poverty, .... it is only the ghost of money, and not money itself." -- Thomas Jefferson, 1788"'Honest Abe' was the moniker given to Abraham Lincoln by his early associates and later political enemies, for the same reason that the biggest boy in a class is called 'Tiny'."

Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you with Mobile. Try it now.

[Guest guest]

Dear Dr. John, When I replied earlier to Shayn I had not yet scrolled further along to your post (here, below) wherein the suggestive alternative of March 1 you have proposed. Admittedly, I've taken a literal-minded approach [December 15] to predicting the election. Btw, my choice of Hawaii, not New Hampshire, not Washington D.C., assumes that the voting could be close, and certainty of the result first arrives when all the Constitutionally determined votes are submitted. History shows that, for most presidential elections, by the midnight hour of the November election day the results are certain; however, by noontime on the December election day the results are definitive. [The Exception: Dead heats thrown into the House of Representatives to resolve, e.g. 1800 & 1824.] Cheers, JohnTWB"Dr. John D. Andre" <DrJDAndre wrote: Hello John & Group:May I suggest an additional chart for your consideration?My logic is this: The race for the White House (etc.) is just that, a race. In charting we like to look at beginnings. A race begins when the starting gun goes off. IMO, in this case, that would be "at the closing of filings" (which is the legal declaration of who is in the race).

As I see it, that is the starting gun - from that moment the field is set and the race is on: March 1st, 2008 @ 5:00 PM, Washington, D.C. I find this chart to be helpful. Warmly, John ========================================================JohnTWB wrote: Hi Shayn, I use Juneau, Alaska @ 8:00 p.m. on November 4, 2008 for the close of the "popular" voting in the 50 States. [Honolulu, Hawaii, further west, closes at 6:00 p.m.] However, the quadrennial U.S. presidential election isn't over until it's over, which is on the Constitutional election day, the day of the Electoral College, which falls "on the first Monday after the second Tuesday" in December. For the election of 2008, that falls on December 15 @ 12:00 noon in each of the 50 state

capitals. Given the time zone spread, Hawaii is the 50th State to cast ballots on that day at noon. The Electoral College votes are counted during a joint session of the U.S. Congress, held in early January 2009. As I suspect you already know, a small number of candidates in the 19th and 20th centuries has won in November and lost in December. Only the December votes are counted at the finish line. Cheers, JohnTWB & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & "You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on."--- U.S. President George W. Bush, speaking at a Gridiron Club dinner, Washington, D.C., March 2001 "Time and the Ocean, and some guiding star and High Cabal have made us what we are." U.K. Prime Minister Winston Churchill, 3 October 1941"For nothing is hid that shall not be made manifest, nor anything secret that shall not be known and come to light... take heed then how you hear..." Luke 8:1718 "1913 was the final year of America's golden age: After indoor plumbing, but before the

central bank and the income tax."R. J. Rushdoony"Paper is poverty, .... it is only the ghost of money, and not money itself." -- Thomas Jefferson, 1788"'Honest Abe' was the moniker given to Abraham Lincoln by his early associates and later political enemies, for the same reason that the biggest boy in a class is called 'Tiny'."

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[Guest guest]

Thanks, John. I appreciate

your kind reply (as well as all your amazing work on behalf of the

thinking community).

 

Warmly, John

=========================================

 

JohnTWB wrote:

 

 

Dear Dr. John,

 

When I replied earlier to Shayn I had not yet scrolled further

along to your post (here, below) wherein the suggestive alternative of

March 1 you have proposed.

 

Admittedly, I've taken a literal-minded approach [December

15] to predicting the election.

 

Btw, my choice of Hawaii, not New Hampshire, not Washington

D.C., assumes that the voting could be close, and certainty of the

result first arrives when all the Constitutionally determined votes are

submitted.

 

History shows that, for most presidential elections, by the

midnight hour of the November election day the results are certain;

however, by noontime on the December election day the results are

definitive. [The Exception: Dead heats thrown into the House of

Representatives to resolve, e.g. 1800 & 1824.]

 

Cheers,

 

JohnTWB