Astrology a science or myth - Nalini

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Hare Rama Krsna

Dear Lalit ji,

Namaskar.

I did wonder when I read your mail. Was that mail intended for me or Mr.Sanat?

 

I am really confused, my intention was to try stop detractors of jyotish from endlessly 'spamming' and creating an atmosphere not very conducive for healthy astrological discussions.

 

Regards

Nalini

 

 

 

litsol <litsolVedic Astrologyandhealing Sent: Thursday, 29 November, 2007 8:23:47 PM[Vedic Astrologyandhealing] Re: Astrology a science or myth -> Nalini

 

Dear Nalini,In my mail - "You" means - "Mr. Sanat". not u.I m sorry, pls. dont take my mail wrongly.regards,Lalit.Vedic Astrologyandhe aling@ s.com, "litsol" <litsol wrote:>> Dear nalini,> > In this group, we few people have not taken astrology as our > profession, it's not our bread and butter. we are doing good in our > chosen domain of profession and few of us have done really good.> > And even if some one has chosen astrology as his profession, what's > wrong in that, he is getting results and helping people, he charges > something for his service, what's wrong in that ?> > both the things doesnt mean, we are biased, in fact, instead of >

putting ur logic/finding, pls. dont begin blaming, that w'd mean u > urself is biased, come for a honest discussion, we are exploring > astrology and want to make it more useful for the entire mankind.> > we will help u also if u want to know about urself provided u r > truthful.> > regards,> Lalit.> > Vedic Astrologyandhe aling@ s.com, nalini swamy > <nalini2818@ > wrote:> >> > Hare Rama krsna> > Respected Sanat ji,> > namaskar. > > I would understand that most of the group are ardent > believers/practitio ners-amateur and professional and being so are > convinced of what astrology is for them and what it offers. Don't you > think

you should try to 'convert' a totally different group, one that > is still hesitant,waiting at the threshold, trying to test waters?> > Please desist from trying to divert focus away from astrology > itself by this discussion as this group is working towards and ideal > of educating people and all of them have agreed towards working > towards it by joining the group. > > If your ideals are different, obviously so, why dont you try to > form one of your own and work towards it instead of trying to wean > away the 'infants from the mother' as you are now attempting to. > Because it is the 'infants' that are the most gullible and prone to > being led astray by extrinsic motivators as they are not very > competent to judge what is good for them.> > I apologise if I have hurt you which was unintentional,> > Apologies to the group for a non

astrological post,> > Regards > > Nalini> > > > > > > > > > sanat2221 <sanatkumar_ jain@>> > Vedic Astrologyandhe aling@ s.com> > Thursday, 29 November, 2007 6:46:49 AM> > [Vedic Astrologyandh ealing] Re: Astrology a science or myth> > > > Respected Kiran Ji,> > Namaskar,> > Thanks for your mail > > You said> > >>>>Astrology as taught by the> > sages is correct and near 100% accurate -<<<<> > > > If it is so then what was the need to find > > > > >>>>>original> > work of the sages

was lost. We should research this and reconstruct> > the original astrology by testing out various principles.< <<<<> > > > Actually astrologers are riding on two horses and they are neither > > following the Indian (sages) knowledge nor scientific logic. > Because > > If astrology is beneficial by the names of Indian sages then they > > take their shelter, whereas our sages has neither devised signs > > (Rashis) etc. nor they have concept of solar system. On the other > > hand when astrologer find it beneficial then they use modern > > scientific data in support of astrology to befool general public so > > that they may think that astrology is science. Whereas scientific > > data are quite against with the concept of our sages. Astrologers > are > > actually using psychology, modern scientific

data in the coverup of > > knowledge of sages, Ved etc.. Thus it appears that > > > > >>>>>In every group, you will see many people making close to 100% > > accurate> > predictions. <<<<> > > > But actually it is not so. Because you can realize that if one > > principle is right (socalled) in one horoscope then same principle > is > > not applicable in other horoscopes. Thus there is ample scope of > > manipulation according to the mindset of the client. It is > psychology > > which is the reason behind so called correct prediction or any > > prediction can be right upto 50% as a general rule of permutation > > combination. If prediction is principle based then principles would > > have been fed in the computer to know all those predictions and any

> > time correction can also be carried out within minutes.> > > > How you can be against > > > > >>>>> charlatan astrologers (sadly 99% of the folks today are), > > charlatan books etc -<<<<<> > > > when they are applying the same principles of sages. Or can you > > identify a single astrologer who is rightly applying the principle. > > Whereas actually astrological principles are based on primitive > > knowledge of solar system without any scientific base. But it was > > inquisitive of our sages who wants to know future events with some > > method and they experimented with many principles and still > > astrologers are experimenting with ageold principles without > knowing > > as to how they were formulated (which I asked through 10 questions > in

> > my blog) and procedure is included in my book.> > > > >>>>>astrology is a science and art and it is> > upto us and future generations in India to learn this great > > science<<<<<> > > > Actually astrology (predictive) is not a science but astronomy is > > science, which were studied by our sages and now it is being > > studied by NASA. Now our astrologers are busy in the business of > > prediction though they are not able to predict about themselves. > > Future generation is not going to learn astronomy but those > innocents > > who have lost their self confidence or those who wants some short > cut > > for success or they are being fed since childhood that astrology is > > correct and they have to trace a good astrologer (which they will > > never find)

for prediction; will be after astrologer without > knowing > > the actual fact.> > > > I will like to say that I am not against the knowledge of sages > > because during development process what best they could visualize > > they did but we are not that much devoted to learn some thing new. > > But we are only misguinding each other and thinking that we are > > praising our sages. Actually we must have proud on our heritage > > because it is our history, culture, civilization but at the same > > time we must remember that knowledge is not limited to our sages > but > > learning is a continuous process and we must learn.> > > > Waiting for your comments. Rest in next.> > Thanks> > > > Yours,> > > > Sanat> > Sanatkumar_jain@ rediffmail. com> >

> > Vedic Astrologyandhe aling@ s.com, "kiran.rama" > > <kiran.rama@ ...> wrote:> > >> > > Sanatji,> > > > > > there is nothing about sentiment here - Astrology as taught by the> > > sages is correct and near 100% accurate - However in the > intervening> > > period, there have been many things added/deleted and the original> > > work of the sages was lost. We should research this and > reconstruct> > > the original astrology by testing out various principles.> > > > > > In every group, you will see many people making close to 100% > > accurate> > > predictions.> > > > > > I am against charlatan astrologers (sadly 99% of the folks today > > are),> > > charlatan books etc - But astrology is

a science and art and it is> > > upto us and future generations in India to learn this great > science> > > > > > Regards> > > Kiran> > > > > > > > > Vedic Astrologyandhe aling@ s.com, "sanat2221" > > > > > > <sanatkumar_ jain@> wrote:> > > >> > > > ASTROLOGY A SCIENCE OR MYTH> > > > Will you please like to ponder and instead of sticking to some > > > > misconcept regarding astrology on which you have not studied in > > depth > > > > but you only have faith, because you have been informed like > > this. So > > > > come out and think with open mind and decide yourself as to > > whether > > > > astrology is scientific or is being given coverup of science

> due > > to > > > > some vested interest. I do not want to hurt the sentiments of > > > > astrologers or who are in support of astrology, but I only want > > to > > > > emphasise that if you think that it is a science then let us > > examine > > > > it and then there will be no question of hurting, because you > > have > > > > not formulated the principles. But unfortunately you are > standing > > in > > > > support of it like a lawyer only due to faith (which has been > > > > infused) and want to conclude like a judge that astrology is a > > > > science without knowing the story of other side. I can > understand > > the > > > > problem of astrologer that they will loose their business but > if > > you

> > > > are a client then you must have right to know the truth or call > > an > > > > astrologer in the consumer forum.> > > > > > > > At the time of formulating the astrological principles in early > > > > Primitive age, it was the concept that every living being has > > > > capacity to move, whereas lifeless thing cannot move. This > > religious > > > > philosophy leads sages to classify all so-called planet (Sun, > > Moon, > > > > Mars etc.) as super living being (Deities). In those days only > > sages > > > > had social sanction to study religious scriptures. Thus after > > > > prolonged observation of the sky they developed the skill to > > predict > > > > solar and lunar eclipse, which was the result of so-called

> > grabbing > > > > the Sun and Moon by imaginary shadow planets Rahu and Ketu.> > > > They were also able to predict the timing of eclipse and its > > > > duration. They have devised an ingenious way to offer donations > > etc. > > > > to get them free from the clutches of Rahu and Ketu, which is > > still > > > > being followed. It was also religious concept that fate of > > everybody > > > > is pre-decided according to their deeds. Thus in this > situation, > > it > > > > was common wisdom as to when sages were able to predict the > fate > > of > > > > deities like Sun and Moon then why they could not predict the > > fate of > > > > King and so on. Thus procedure was devised to formulate various > > >

> astrological principles on the basis of the then knowledge of > > sages > > > > based on scriptures and their celestial observation. These > > principles > > > > were the key factors for deciding the fate. > > > > > > > > Procedure adopted to formulate these principles was never > > percolated > > > > in the Indian society due to illiteracy and hard barrier to > learn > > > > such knowledge by other castes. Subsequently these principles > > were > > > > spread to other civilisation and later on developed as Western > > system.> > > > What is happening nowadays that there are two groups. One group > > > > belongs to astrologers who always try to support astrology due > to > > > > their business considerations (these

astrologers always try to > > fit > > > > past event very precisely within some astrological principle > > within a > > > > capsule of ved, religion, astronomy (eclipse etc.) and faith > > etc., > > > > but they are unable to predict any future event. Because > > astrological > > > > principles lead to diverse predictions and that too diabolical > > > > opposite to each other. If by chance a prediction (in fluke) > may > > come > > > > true then they start to harp on the same prediction and start > > self > > > > praising instead of applying the same socalled principle on > other > > > > horoscopes to see their failure. Thus astrologer can only > > mislead, > > > > create confusion, try to cure `planets' and so on. You

can find > > that > > > > only this is going on in every forum), whereas other group (say > > > > scientist) try to raise some logical questions against > astrology. > > But > > > > none of them have ever tried to investigate as to what was the > > level > > > > of information of sages about the Universe, who developed > > > > astrological principles in primitive age and what procedure was > > > > adopted to formulate various principles relating to Lordship, > > > > Friendship-enmity, Exalted-debilitated , Aspect, Vinshottary > > > > periodicity etc. If we analyse whole set of principles then > > following > > > > questions may be raised (basis of formulation is given in > > subpara).> > > > > > > > 1 What

procedure was adopted to allot twelve signs among seven > > > > planets (as Mars is lord of Aries, Scorpio etc.) ?> > > > > > > > It was based on the concept that Sun is just above the > stationary > > > > Earth and Moon is above the Sun and so on……….> > > > > > > > 2 What procedure was adopted to decide that there is enmity and > > > > friendship between some planets (as Sun and Saturn are enemy of > > each > > > > other) ?> > > > Based on the Indian myth of fight between deities and demons > over > > > > nector after sea-churning………..> > > > 3 What procedure was adopted to decide various aspect (full, > > quarter > > > > to full, half and quarter), (as planets have full aspect on

> > seventh > > > > house) ?> > > > Based on the position of army in the battle field………..> > > > > > > > 4 What procedure was adopted to decide that planets are exalted > > and > > > > debilitated at some degree (as Sun is exalted at 10 deg. of > Aries > > > > sign) ?> > > > Based on planetary situation linked with Sun, when duration of > > the > > > > day is more in comparison to night……> > > > 5 What procedure was adopted to decide that most powerful and > hub > > of > > > > our solar system, Sun has 6 years vinshottary dasha whereas > Venus > > (a > > > > small planet) has 20 years ?> > > > Based on two triangles derived after working out the effect

of > > > > Universe on the basis of lord and exalted…….> > > > 6 What procedure was adopted to allot various constellations > > between > > > > nine planets with different vinshottary dasha ?> > > > > > > > Kratica was first constellation in Indian scriptures……….> > > > > > > > 7 What procedure was adopted to decide order of days of a week > > > > (Sunday, Monday etc.) ?> > > > Based on distribution of 60 Ghati (Ghat = pitcher) in the > > structure > > > > of Universe where Sun is nearer and Moon is far away…..> > > > > > > > 8 What procedure was adopted to decide fixed retrograde motion > of > > > > Rahu Ketu (3-11 minute-second per day)?> > > > On the basis

of recurrence of eclipse…..> > > > 9 What procedure was adopted to decide that Rahu, Ketu are 180 > > deg. > > > > apart?> > > > On the basis of recurrence of eclipse………..> > > > 10 What procedure was adopted to decide timings of eclipse ?> > > > Repetition of eclipse after fixed constellation month……….> > > > > > > > Thus there may be endless questions, with a final question as > to > > > > whether present form of astrology is correct? If some one gave > > > > answers to these questions then he will realise that entire > > > > astrological principles are totally based on wrong concept of > > > > Universe.> > > > > > > > Everybody may agree that every research is based on the

then > > > > knowledge. In the same way, when astrology was developed by > sage > > > > Parashar etc. At that time it was believed that Earth is in the > > > > centre of the Universe and stationary (it is also believed in > all > > > > religions). Beside this it was also believed (you may read any > > old > > > > scriptures) that Sun is nearer from the Earth, whereas Moon is > > beyond > > > > Sun. All constellations are situated in between Mercury and > Moon. > > > > You may be surprised to know that all astrological principles > are > > > > actually fabricated around this concept. I my-self studying > > astrology > > > > since last 35 years and developed softwares to conclude correct > > > > prediction. But if it is true

at one time then same combination > > is > > > > not true in other case. It leads me to think afresh logically > and > > > > systematically over this subject and I find that Primitive > > concept > > > > (when astrology was developed) requires full overhauling in > view > > of > > > > modern scientific astronomy, according to which primitive > concept > > of > > > > Universe (basis of astrology) was totally changed.> > > > After lot of research I wrote an original book on > > astrology "Jyotish -> > > > Kitna sahi kitna galat" in Hindi (330 pages). This book > contains > > the > > > > detailed procedure adopted to formulate these principles on the > > basis > > > > of the then knowledge about the Universe,

which leads our sages > > to > > > > formulate these principles. This book was also published in > > English > > > > with the title "Astrology a science or myth" (450 pages). You > can > > > > realize that this is revolutionary book and will change the > face > > of > > > > predictive astrology in due course. If you interested to know > > more > > > > about the book or description of various chapters then you may > > send > > > > email to me. The book is being marketed in USA /UK etc. > > > > Refer http://www.bokklubb en.no/samboweb/ produkt.do?> > produktID=1759836> > > > > > > > http://www.thebookp lace.com/

bookplace/ results-asp? AUB=sanat%> > 20kumar%> > > > 20jain & TAG= & CID=> > > > > > > > http://www.aggarwal overseas. com/booksdetail. aspx?> > > > ProductID=64211 & catID=AGO010 & detail=t> > > > > > > > At that time our sages were neither aware of Uranus, Neptune > nor > > they > > > > were aware that solar and lunar eclipses occurred due to > presence > > of > > > > Moon and shadow of Earth. That's why they have developed the > > concept > > > > of Rahu and Ketu with retrograde motion of 3'11". It was > > mentioned in > > > > the Grahlaghav that eclipse occurred when Rahu/Ketu came within > > 14 > > > > degree on Amavasya

(dark night) or Puranmashi (full Moon). But > > nobody > > > > will be able to answer that why there was no lunar eclipse when > > Sun, > > > > Moon and Rahu were at 203.01, 23.01 and 34.43 degree > respectively > > on > > > > 08-11-1984 (Rahu was within 11.42 degree) or when Sun, Moon and > > Ketu > > > > were at 319.74, 139.74 and 150.26 degree respectively on 03-03-> > 1988 ( > > > > Ketu was within 10.52 degree). Likewise I find that Solar > > eclipses > > > > occurred even when difference between Moon and Rahu was more > then > > > > 14°. Sun and Moon were at 94.24 deg., whereas Rahu was at > 79.04 > > deg. > > > > on 21-07-1982 (Rahu was 15.20 deg. away). Sun and Moon were at > > 76.49 > >

> > deg., whereas Rahu was at 91.93 deg. on 02-07-2000 (Rahu was > > 15.14 > > > > deg. away).> > > > To give a modern scientific colour to the astrology, you will > > also > > > > find in many modern astrological books that eclipse occurred at > > the > > > > intersection point of orbit of the Sun and Moon (though it was > > not > > > > known to our sages and Rahu Ketu were created on the basis of > > myth). > > > > Thus it is clear that at the time of full solar eclipse, when > > Moon > > > > happens to be just over the Sun than Rahu must also be there. > But > > As > > > > per almanac Ketu was shown at 194 and 177 degree on 12-11-1985 > > and 3-> > > > 10-1986 (refer any almanac) respectively when there

were full > > solar > > > > eclipse and position of Sun/Moon were at 206 and 166 degree > > > > respectively. You will agree that when there were full solar > > eclipses > > > > then on these dates either Rahu or Ketu must be at 206 and 166 > > degree > > > > respectively, because only then full solar eclipse may > possible. > > > > Whereas Ketu was being shown at 194 and 177 degrees in almanac. > > Thus > > > > there was clear mistake of about 12 and 11 degrees > respectively. > > All > > > > horoscopes are defective in this light and due to this > > fundamental > > > > positional variation, prediction is also effected. If you want > > then I > > > > can give many more examples and very simple method of detecting

> > them.> > > > I fully support that astrology (predictive) is not a science > but > > in > > > > primitive age predictive astrology was a mixture of astronomy + > > > > psychology + faith. Because astronomy is a science, psychology > > > > (recently discovered and it was not known in primitive age) > > played an > > > > important role in handling a person by the astrologer due to > > immense > > > > faith over astrology+astrologe r hence predictive astrology > > appears to > > > > be correct due to combined effect of all three. You will also > > agree > > > > with the above observation after going through my original > > > > revolutionary research. Because if everything is pre-decided as > > was > > > >

contention of sages then why we may take pains, why we may try > to > > do > > > > some thing, because every thing will take place according to > pre-> > > > written destiny. Secondly, there is no question of modifying > that > > pre-> > > > written destiny, because if we try to change only our fate, > even > > then > > > > all attached happening will automatically change creating a > > cascading > > > > effect, which in turn will change the pre-written fate of every > > > > person. In another case, if destiny is not pre-written or say > pre-> > > > defined than it is not possible to detect it. Because when > every > > Tom, > > > > Dick and Harry are changing their destiny due to worship, good > > deed > >

> > etc. then destiny of every one will continue remain under > change. > > You > > > > will agree that astrology is totally based on mathematical > > > > calculation regarding planets, whose transit is fixed and can > > never > > > > and never be altered. Now when transit or birth chart cannot be > > > > altered it means result of calculation or say prediction is > also > > > > fixed. Then how one may change his destiny (if it is ever > > prewritten) > > > > by adopting some means like offering, ring, vastu etc. because > in > > > > that case, if you like to say, then future events will be > altered > > but > > > > how a calculation of planetary transit or linked prediction can > > be > > > > changed, which is fixed

due to birth chart or fixed transit of > > > > planets?> > > > > > > > Those who think that astrology is a science may be rest assured > > that > > > > actually predictive astrology is not a science at all. Only > > astronomy > > > > and psychology (discovered only in last 200 years) were used > > > > unknowingly by our sages for some prediction and it appears > > correct. > > > > Hence predictive astrology is bogus and astrology is a myth. > > Still if > > > > you have a faith on astrology then why don't you contact The > > James > > > > Randi Educational Foundation who offeres a US $1000000 prize to > > > > anyone who can demonstrate that astrology works. His e-mail and > > > > website is jref@ and http://www.randi. org Because modern > > > > technologies like computer, TV, Newspaper etc. are being used > to > > > > spread this myth in the cover up of science with vested > business > > > > interest. Hence it requires a logical approach to fight this > sort > > of > > > > ignorance. My book has vital scientific information in this > > regard > > > > and readers of the book are fully convinced that astrology > > > > (predictive) is bogus, because procedure adopted to formulate > > > > principles was neither logical nor based on correct information > > of > > > > Universe, solar system.> > > > > > > > I will like to have your critical comments for further > > interaction on

> > > > my email sanatkumar_jain@ . It would be better to know > > > > the roots of astrology and facts, data behind it before falling > > in > > > > the trap and come forward to join hands because of AIDS > > (Astrology Is > > > > Damaging Society).> > > > Sanat Kumar Jain> > > > Gwalior> > > > > > > > Reader may directly write to me on my email instead of creating > > > > problems to moderator> > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends > http://au.messenger .> >>Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.