Shree Sanat Jain Astrology a science or myth

December 6, 2007

Dear Prabodh,

Namaskar,

I really appreciate your patience to read my blog and answer it.

Let us continue pointwise (with some further narration)

===========

(((((((((((((((>But unfortunately you are standing in support of it

like a lawyer

>only due to faith (which has

>been infused) and want to conclude like a judge that astrology is a

>science without knowing the

>story of other side.

Who are you Lawyer or a Judge? ))))))))))

Initially I was also like many reader / astrologer. Hence I was

just lawyer who supports his stand. But after digging the principle.

Whatever I have found and judged has already been mentioned in the

Book. In nutshell I can say that astrologicai principels were founded

on Primitive knowledge. Hence it is not supportable with modern

concept of Univerese. I am not pushing my idea that¡¦s why I just put

some questions so that some one may answer if I am wrong. Though I

have given some hints in support of my stand. So I have judged and

intimating you to judge yourself.

(((((((((>I can understand the problem of astrologer that they will

loose

>their business but if you are a

>client then you must have right to know the truth or call an

>astrologer in the consumer forum.

If you can get any astrloger in consumer forum it will surly help

Vedic Jyotish!)))))))))

I am not asking for any prediction. And general public is not even

aware with their right then how they can take an astrologer over whom

they have immense faith. Secondly not a single astrologer is giving

prediction with guarantte. If it fails even then they take shelter

that horoscope / time is not correct.

Hence It is good the check the principle as to whether they have any

scientific or otherwise some logic or not., which I have done.

===========

((((((((> > >

> > > At the time of formulating the astrological principles in early

> > > Primitive age, it was the concept that every living being has

> > > capacity to move, whereas lifeless thing cannot move. This

> religious

> > > philosophy leads sages to classify all so-called planet (Sun,

> Moon,

> > > Mars etc.) as super living being (Deities).

Now,I think it is just your opinion and not a statement of

fact! )))))))))

It is not my contention, but it is a simple definition which can be

found in any scripture dealing with life (atma) and matter. Sun,

Moon was treated as deities even in Ved and they are worshiped for

providing every requirement of life (agriculture , health etc.)

=========================

((((((((> > > solar and lunar eclipse, which was the result of so-

called

> grabbing

> > > the Sun and Moon by imaginary shadow planets Rahu and Ketu.

This is again your opinion. Purpose of Rahu/Ketu is more than

this.)))))))

This is not my opinion. But Rahu ketu was only devised as a result

of eclipse. Though subsequently they were linked with the story of

samudra manthan in which one demon want to sip nector and he was seen

by deities and killed since then Rahu ketu are after sun and Moon

and they grab them which is seen as a eclipse. Donation etc. was the

remedy for freeing the Sun and so on¡K¡K¡K¡K

So initially they were so but subsequently they were used in

prediction with a fixed retrograde motion of 3-11 worked out on the

basis of eclipse. But in modern days it is claimed by astrological

books that they are intersection point of orbit of the Sun and

Moon. But it is even not so which I have explained through the

data of eclipse.

=\===========

(((((((((> > > King and so on. Thus procedure was devised to

formulate various

> > > astrological principles on the basis of the then knowledge of

> sages

> > > based on scriptures and their celestial observation. These

> principles

> > > were the key factors for deciding the fate.

This is again not correct. In a way you are trying to suggest that

since sages were able to predict grahana and that way Bhavishya of

the Sun, they were assigned to predict about mortal beings! I am

sorry,this is not the way Jyotisha came into being. On the other

hand, there is ample scope to think that the entire Chaturvarna

system and Hindu way of life revolved( and still continue to be)

around Jyotish.)))))))))))))

Our Vedic tradition was limited to worship of God in the form of

Sun, Moon ¡K¡K. And our sages like Lagadh and so on were only busy in

working out the auspicious time for worship (Yagya etc), that¡¦s why

they devised the concept of constellation (28) and not 27 like today

attached with a deity. Thus there was only concept of good and bad

time (for worship and not for prediction). Till the time of Gautam

Buddha sages were turned to claim that any work may be done at

auspicious time (position of planet, tithi etc) for good result

(actually this was slightly turn from initially concept). Gautam

Buddha was not in support of such practice. Thereafter due to

business links with Babilonia, Greek our sages came to know about the

concept of Sign and their concept by which they (Babylonian) think

that Sirius stat was the main reason of flood in Nile river and so

on¡K¡K¡K¡K¡K..after which the concept of formulation of some prediction

about the human beings (which was not in babylonia) but our sages who

were deciding the fate of Sun, moon in the form of eclipse easily

turned to the prediction of Kings. ¡K¡K¡K¡K. And so on

Thus our life which revolove around the astrology was actually

astronomy and not predictive astrology¡K¡K¡K.

((((((> > > spread to other civilisation and later on developed as

Western

> system.

At least you agree that Western world got it from here.)))))))))))

No dispute but westernerss are not prepared to accept this concept.

Let them because they have no devise to link the planets with sign

which was the work of our sages on the basis of the then concept of

Universe.

((((((((> astrological

> > > principles lead to diverse predictions and that too diabolical

> > > opposite to each other.

This is not true. You may like to think again about it.

If by chance a prediction (in fluke)

may

> come

> > > true then they start to harp on the same prediction and start

self

> > > praising instead of applying the same socalled principle on

other

> > > horoscopes to see their failure.

Here Astrologers are at fault, not Astrology I uppose!)))))))))))

There are many contradiction points (even included in my book) and

you can also find if you apply astrological principles then every

principle will lead you to new direction which may be refuted by

another principle (though it may located by astrologer or not), which

give ample scope to astrologer to predict according to his own whim.

As there is no set of principle that so and so principle will be

cancelled by so and so principles.

In this situation it is not the fault of the astrologer ( what he

can do if some prediction is not true) at the most he can apply

principles if 5 principls are + and other five are -ve then what

he can do. So actually it is the fault of astrological principles

that¡¦s why none of the astrologer is expert even after 2000 years.

========================

(((((((((>Thus astrologer can only

>mislead,

> > > create confusion, try to cure `planets' and so on.

Yes they can but not all are alike. There are really some good

astrologers.)))))))

If in India we would have any single astrologer who can predict on

the basis of astrological principles then every problem of Indian

public would have been solved.

==========

((((((((((>and what procedure was

> > > adopted to formulate various principles relating to Lordship,

> > > Friendship-enmity, Exalted-debilitated, Aspect, Vinshottary

> > > periodicity etc.

If you understand you will possibly appriciate Vedic Jyotish!)))))

Yes I appreciate that our sages have tried so hard to learn it but

what can be done if any experiment is not workable. Secondly don¡¦t

say then Vedic astrologer, Because Vedic astrologer were actually

astronomers (in modern terminology) where as predictive astrology was

not vedic but subsequent branch which turned to be a business source

since long¡K¡K¡K.

You are refusing my contention (about 10 question which I have

raised), given in short because it is not possible to include the

matter of 350 pages, as to how these principles were formulated with

the then knowledge. OK I am willing to drop if you or any one else

can provide me the logical answer by which all principles were

formulated, in view of the then level of knowledge.

=====================

((((((((((((One of them is Shree Sanjay Rath. Try to contact him

first and

request him to listen to you seriously. In case you fail with Sanjay,

¡K¡K¡K¡K¡K..))))))))

I have gone thorough lot of books and interacted with lot of

astrologers but none of them is able to answer my queries because

they are not willing to come out from the tunnel of faith. As we can

see that who religious preacher will admit that Earth is not

stationery and flat because it was the contention of our sages. So

no body is willing to come out from their mindset. Yes they are

willing to define old scripture in such a way so that they may prove

that it is well mentioned in the scripture. As we seen in the case

of Rahu ketu or I have seen in many matter. Because admitting that

Uranus, Neptune could not be seen by sages will undermine the whole

set up and which in turn will disturb their own standing. ¡K¡K¡K..

=================

(((((((((Where has Parashara said that earth is in the center of

universe and stationary? Please,Quote the original shloka.)))))))

You may read Vishnu Puran, which was written by him. Hence while

formulating the principles he take help of that concept. Even in old

Tettariy Brahmin (3-11-1) you may read the same concept. In Moksh

Shastra you may read same story¡K¡K¡K..

========================================

(((((((I my-self studying > astrology Self-study of any subject is

very bad. Eklavya had to pay for it

heavily.)))))))))

It is not so. In 35 years I have learned many thing from many

astrologers.

==========================

(((((((Correct predictions using software??? You mean you developed

s/w with AI? I will be interested in knowing the algorithm/strategy

adopted? Please do answer this question as I know little bit of

computer algorithms having done B.E in computer science.))))))))))

Yes, even you can do it, If you have time and patience to find

the truth. I myself developed the software in 1987. and you can do

it. You have to break any principle in command so that with same

position, combination, period, exalted etc. etc.. some defined

prediction may come out. Then you have no discreation to manipulate

any output. Even if you want some manipulation (correction) you can

do it in the SW itself so next time you will get socalled correct

output. By this you can see that not a single principle or set of

principle is able to give correct result.

I have even prepared a horoscope by which you can see application

of every principle in detail. Even then there is no correct

prediction.

((((((((((((> > > modern scientific astronomy, according to which

primitive

concept > of > > > Universe (basis of astrology) was totally changed.

We differ in the first place as to what is to be considered as

Primitive.)))))))))

No difference as it is relative term. But in time scale we used to

say it as a period between 500 BC to 500 AD. If any concept is still

valid then well and good like the concept of archmidies about the

density and so on but if that concept is false in view of modern

concept then it will be called primitive concept (like Earth is

stationary and Sun is near in comparison to the Moon and so on). And

principles based on such primitive concept can only be pushed on

the shoulder of faith

(((((((WHy are you calling it as Original? Say simply a book! I¡K¡K¡K¡K¡K)

Because it is original and not copied from some books as is being

done during writing of astrological books.

((((((((((((nor

> they> > > were aware that solar and lunar eclipses occurred due to

presence> of

> > > Moon and shadow of Earth.

Are you asking this or telling? i.e. Puch rahe ho ki bata rahe ho? If

is later,where is a proof? and if it is former then you are

excercising your right to express your view.That's why they have

developed the

„« concept

> > > of Rahu and Ketu with retrograde motion of 3'11 " . It

was))))))))))))))))

I think you have a misconcept that our sages were well aware with the

correct reason of eclipse ie shadow of Moon/ Earth. You may read

Grahlaghave though it was quite new and written in 16th century.

Even at that time there was no concept of shadow of Moon and Earth

at the time of eclipse. Remember that concept of solar system was

supported by Galileo in 17th century. Hence how a concept which was

discovered in 17th century and that too which was not accepted even

in Europe because it was against the concept of Bible then how you

can even think of such concept in Indian culture who was never free

from foreign attackers and when reading was only permitted to

Brahmins.

„« =============

((((((((((Once we read original shlokas from Grahlaghava,we will

solve this riddle as well!

¡K¡K¡K¡K.> > > eclipse and position of Sun/Moon were at 206 and 166 degree

> > > respectively.

Are you sure about the Sun and the Moon deg?))))))

Even after that you will not be able to solve the mistake because

panchag are made on the principles narrated in Grahlaghav, which is

latest after aryabhattiy, Bhaskaracharya and so on¡K¡K. And why I will

give you wrong data. It is a different thing that none of the

astrologer has detected it. So it is not my fault. Even astrologer

when detected the source of formulation of predictive principles.

Because earlier this knowledge was limited to sages then Brahmins and

then businessmen astrologer and now computer astrologer. So every one

was busy in their business (or say popularity) interest.So it is not

my fault.

((((((((> then I

> > > can give many more examples and very simple method of detecting

> them.

Taht will be very good. Please do it as and when you get

time.)))))))))

Why worry take the data of any latest full eclipse and compare it .

(((((((((> > > I fully support that astrology (predictive) is not a

science

If this is logic then I am afraid, you are jumping to

conclusions.))))))))))))

I am not jumping to the conclusion. I have come to the conclusion

that predictive astrology is not a science because initial

data/information on the basis of which all these principles were

formulated are wrong. But our vedic tradition was limited to the

study of movement of Sun and Moon, which is astronomy (in ancient

time it was known as astrology). Hence I say that astrology is bogus

whereas astronomy is science.

(((((((((((that it has a attribute of being 'Nitya Nutan'. It

contradicts its own principle over the period of time. SO whatever is

truth according to science may not be thruth tomorrow. But so far as

it is not proved untruth,we have to accept it as truth. In a way

science makes us to accept untruth as truth and very same truth as

untruth. )))))))))

Yes in astronomy we are learning lot new things but astrological

principles which were once formulated on the basis of wrong data has

not been modified, tested. Except providing new statistical data of

planets (borrowed from NASA) in astrological (predictive) books to

confuse general public so that they may think that it was the concept

of our sages and so on¡K¡K¡K.

==================

(((((((WHy psychology? Usually Jyotish can solve and should only

solve those problems where Human efforts dont work. ¡K¡K.Follow those

rules in your test conditions.)))))))

It is only your faith. If it would have been possible to change our

future (as predicted by astrologer) then there would have not been

a single problem.

=============================

(((((Jyotish is all about making the quality of life good. Some times

by knowing future sometimes by doing remedy. ))))))

If some thing is fixed only then it can be worked out. And if

we modify, change that event then how you can say that it was

fixed according to the movement of planet which is fixed. If a

single event may be changed (remedy) then all connecting events will

also be changed creating a cascading effect. Thus future of other

person will also be changed with your remedy. Hence if every thing

is changing due to remedy than where is the prediction, which is

fixed on the basis of fixed horoscope / transit of planets.

((((((((((Now look who is talking? How can you uuse a word

like 'FATE'? )))))))))

Fate, destiny is same and when it is disclosed it is prediction.

((((((((. That is why there are remedial measures in

Vedic Jyotish¡K¡K¡K¡K¡K¡K. It may be rest assured that Vedic Astrology

makes your life more comfortable than science!)))))))))

There was no vedic Jyotish. There was only Vedic jyotish which

deals with the transit of Sun and Moon. There was not Vedic

principles. It is the word which has been coined by the astrologer

keeping in mind the faith towards Ved. There is not a single

predictive principle in Ved and not even the mention of sign. So how

you are saying that it is Vedic Jyotish.

==============

(((((((((((> Still if

> > > you have a faith on astrology then why don't you contact The

James

> > > Randi Educational Foundation who offeres a US $1000000 prize to

> > > anyone who can demonstrate that astrology works.

Once they learn to know how Vedic Astrlogy works, possibly they will

withdraw this offer.))))))))

They will learn only after paying one million dollar. Why

astrologers of the world including India do not try to grab this

much amount to teach them. Pl ask your astrologer.

=============================

((((((((Yours is certainly not logical approch. ))))))

If there is no logic then leave it. Because I only want to inform

you, not more then this. Thereafte it is you who may or may not

like to change. It is our history (humanbeing) that we like to be

governed by masses. But new horizon can only be opened by a

venture and not by following primitive concept.

(((((((((I will surly read your book but not by paying from my

pocket. You can arrange a one for me and send it to me.-¡K¡K¡K¡K¡K¡K¡K It is

more like Another Intellectual Damaging Society(AIDS)))))))))))

It is your discreation but I am not going to provide it. You have to

search it (if some one provide you in free).

It is not like Another Intellectual Damaging Society(AIDS) But it is

more like Another Intellectual Developing Society(AIDS)

=====================================

Thanks a lot for providing so much time in reading and writing such a

fine comments.

Yours truly,

Sanat

Sanatkumar_jain

6-12-2007

Vedic Astrologyandhealing , " Prabodh Vekhande "

<amolmandar wrote:

>

> Dear Shree Sanat Namaste

>

> My comments in your reply.

>

> ASTROLOGY A SCIENCE OR MYTH

> >Will you please like to ponder and instead of sticking to some

> misconcept regarding astrology on

> >which you have not studied in depth but you only have faith,

because

> >you have been informed like

> > this.

>

> I am ready to be well informed. Are you ready to inform me what is

> well?

>

> >So come out and think with open mind and decide yourself as to

> > whether astrology is scientific or is being given coverup of

> >science due to some vested interest.

>

> ok.

>

> > I do not want to hurt the sentiments of astrologers or who are in

> >support of astrology, but I only want to emphasise that if you

think

> >that it is a science then let us examine it and then

> >there will be no question of hurting, because you have not

> >formulated the principles.

>

> Yes correct. You should as well be equally open hearted.

>

> >But unfortunately you are standing in support of it like a lawyer

> >only due to faith (which has

> >been infused) and want to conclude like a judge that astrology is

a

> >science without knowing the

> >story of other side.

>

> Who are you Lawyer or a Judge?

>

> >I can understand the problem of astrologer that they will loose

> >their business but if you are a

> >client then you must have right to know the truth or call an

> >astrologer in the consumer forum.

>

> If you can get any astrloger in consumer forum it will surly help

> Vedic Jyotish!

>

> > > >

> > > > At the time of formulating the astrological principles in

early

> > > > Primitive age, it was the concept that every living being has

> > > > capacity to move, whereas lifeless thing cannot move. This

> > religious

> > > > philosophy leads sages to classify all so-called planet (Sun,

> > Moon,

> > > > Mars etc.) as super living being (Deities).

>

> Now,I think it is just your opinion and not a statement of fact!

>

> >>In those days only

> > sages

> > > > had social sanction to study religious scriptures. Thus after

> > > > prolonged observation of the sky they developed the skill to

> > predict

> > > > solar and lunar eclipse, which was the result of so-called

> > grabbing

> > > > the Sun and Moon by imaginary shadow planets Rahu and Ketu.

>

> This is again your opinion. Purpose of Rahu/Ketu is more than this.

>

> > > > They were also able to predict the timing of eclipse and its

> > > > duration. They have devised an ingenious way to offer

donations

> > etc.

> > > > to get them free from the clutches of Rahu and Ketu, which is

> > still

> > > > being followed.

>

> Now you have touched two different things! Finding duration of

> eclipse and offering donations(i.e remedy for it) is altogether

> different thing. Logic of each remedy can be seen if at all you are

> ready to put yourself for that.

>

> >It was also religious concept that fate of

> > everybody

> > > > is pre-decided according to their deeds. Thus in this

> situation,

> > it

> > > > was common wisdom as to when sages were able to predict the

> fate

> > of

> > > > deities like Sun and Moon then why they could not predict the

> > fate of

> > > > King and so on. Thus procedure was devised to formulate

various

> > > > astrological principles on the basis of the then knowledge of

> > sages

> > > > based on scriptures and their celestial observation. These

> > principles

> > > > were the key factors for deciding the fate.

>

> This is again not correct. In a way you are trying to suggest that

> since sages were able to predict grahana and that way Bhavishya of

> the Sun, they were assigned to predict about mortal beings! I am

> sorry,this is not the way Jyotisha came into being. On the other

> hand, there is ample scope to think that the entire Chaturvarna

> system and Hindu way of life revolved( and still continue to be)

> around Jyotish.

>

> > > >

> > > > Procedure adopted to formulate these principles was never

> > percolated

> > > > in the Indian society due to illiteracy and hard barrier to

> learn

> > > > such knowledge by other castes. Subsequently these principles

> were

> > > > spread to other civilisation and later on developed as Western

> > system.

>

> At least you agree that Western world got it from here.

>

> > > > What is happening nowadays that there are two groups. One

group

> > > > belongs to astrologers who always try to support astrology due

> to

> > > > their business considerations (these astrologers always try to

> fit

> > > > past event very precisely within some astrological principle

> > within a

> > > > capsule of ved, religion, astronomy (eclipse etc.) and faith

> etc.,

> > > > but they are unable to predict any future event.

>

> It indeed seems to be a very common!

>

> Because

> > astrological

> > > > principles lead to diverse predictions and that too diabolical

> > > > opposite to each other.

>

> This is not true. You may like to think again about it.

>

> If by chance a prediction (in fluke)

> may

> > come

> > > > true then they start to harp on the same prediction and start

> self

> > > > praising instead of applying the same socalled principle on

> other

> > > > horoscopes to see their failure.

>

> Here Astrologers are at fault, not Astrology I suppose!

>

> >Thus astrologer can only

> >mislead,

> > > > create confusion, try to cure `planets' and so on.

>

> Yes they can but not all are alike. There are really some good

> astrologers.

>

> >You can find

> > that

> > > > only this is going on in every forum), whereas other group

(say

> > > > scientist) try to raise some logical questions against

> >astrology.

>

> I suppose you are in both and hence finding your real position!

>

> > But

> > > > none of them have ever tried to investigate as to what was the

> > level

> > > > of information of sages about the Universe, who developed

> > > > astrological principles in primitive age

>

> Primitive age? In Hindu context we are now living in intellectual

> primitive age!

>

> >and what procedure was

> > > > adopted to formulate various principles relating to Lordship,

> > > > Friendship-enmity, Exalted-debilitated, Aspect, Vinshottary

> > > > periodicity etc.

>

> If you understand you will possibly appriciate Vedic Jyotish!

>

> >If we analyse whole set of principles then

> > following

> > > > questions may be raised (basis of formulation is given in

> > subpara).

>

> You seem to be doing that. Its really good.

>

> > > >

> > > > 1 What procedure was adopted to allot twelve signs among seven

> > > > planets (as Mars is lord of Aries, Scorpio etc.) ?

> > > >

> > > > It was based on the concept that Sun is just above the

> stationary

> > > > Earth and Moon is above the Sun and so on..........

>

> If it is your answer,then I feel it is not correct.

>

> > > >

> > > > 2 What procedure was adopted to decide that there is enmity

and

> > > > friendship between some planets (as Sun and Saturn are enemy

of

> > each

> > > > other) ?

> > > > Based on the Indian myth of fight between deities and demons

> over

> > > > nector after sea-churning...........

>

> If it is your answer,then I feel it is not correct.

>

> > > > 3 What procedure was adopted to decide various aspect (full,

> > quarter

> > > > to full, half and quarter), (as planets have full aspect on

> > seventh

> > > > house) ?

> > > > Based on the position of army in the battle field...........

>

> If it is your answer,then I feel it is not correct.

>

> > > >

> > > > 4 What procedure was adopted to decide that planets are

exalted

> > and

> > > > debilitated at some degree (as Sun is exalted at 10 deg. of

> Aries

> > > > sign) ?

>

> > > > Based on planetary situation linked with Sun, when duration of

> the

> > > > day is more in comparison to night......

>

> If it is your answer,then I feel it is not correct.

>

> > > > 5 What procedure was adopted to decide that most powerful and

> hub

> > of

> > > > our solar system, Sun has 6 years vinshottary dasha whereas

> Venus

> > (a

> > > > small planet) has 20 years ?

> > > > Based on two triangles derived after working out the effect of

> > > > Universe on the basis of lord and exalted.......

>

> If it is your answer,then I feel it is not correct.

>

> > > > 6 What procedure was adopted to allot various constellations

> > between

> > > > nine planets with different vinshottary dasha ?

> > > >

> > > > Kratica was first constellation in Indian scriptures..........

>

> If it is your answer,then I feel it is not correct.

>

> > > >

> > > > 7 What procedure was adopted to decide order of days of a week

> > > > (Sunday, Monday etc.) ?

> > > > Based on distribution of 60 Ghati (Ghat = pitcher) in the

> > structure

> > > > of Universe where Sun is nearer and Moon is far away.....

>

> If it is your answer,then I feel it is not correct.

>

> > > >

> > > > 8 What procedure was adopted to decide fixed retrograde motion

> of

> > > > Rahu Ketu (3-11 minute-second per day)?

> > > > On the basis of recurrence of eclipse.....

>

> If it is your answer,then I feel it is not correct.

>

> > > > 9 What procedure was adopted to decide that Rahu, Ketu are 180

> > deg.

> > > > apart?

> > > > On the basis of recurrence of eclipse...........

>

> If it is your answer,then I feel it is not correct.

>

> > > > 10 What procedure was adopted to decide timings of eclipse ?

> > > > Repetition of eclipse after fixed constellation

month..........

> > > >

> > > > Thus there may be endless questions, with a final question as

to

> > > > whether present form of astrology is correct? If some one gave

> > > > answers to these questions then he will realise that entire

> > > > astrological principles are totally based on wrong concept of

> > > > Universe.

>

> You have good set of questions but possibly have not met correct

> Jyotish. There are two persons who can answer all your question and

> possibly help you to change your perception about Vedic Astrology.

> One of them is Shree Sanjay Rath. Try to contact him first and

> request him to listen to you seriously. In case you fail with

Sanjay,

> (Sanjay refuses to yield to you. I know that he has all your

answers.

> Whether he will share his knowledge with you depends on your good

> luck.) contact me I will give address of the second one.

>

> > > >

> > > > Everybody may agree that every research is based on the then

> > > > knowledge. In the same way, when astrology was developed by

sage

> > > > Parashar etc. At that time it was believed that Earth is in

the

> > > > centre of the Universe and stationary (it is also believed in

> all

> > > > religions).

>

> Where has Parashara said that earth is in the center of universe

and

> stationary? Please,Quote the original shloka.

>

> >Beside this it was also believed (you may read any

> old

> > > > scriptures) that Sun is nearer from the Earth, whereas Moon is

> > beyond

> > > > Sun. All constellations are situated in between Mercury and

> Moon.

> > > > You may be surprised to know that all astrological principles

> are

> > > > actually fabricated around this concept.

>

> WHich old one are you refering here?

>

> I my-self studying

> > astrology

>

> Self-study of any subject is very bad. Eklavya had to pay for it

> heavily.

>

> > > > since last 35 years and developed softwares to conclude

correct

> > > > prediction.

>

> Correct predictions using software??? You mean you developed s/w

with

> AI? I will be interested in knowing the algorithm/strategy adopted?

> Please do answer this question as I know little bit of computer

> algorithms having done B.E in computer science.

>

> >But if it is true at one time then same combination

> is

> > > > not true in other case. It leads me to think afresh logically

> and

> > > > systematically over this subject and I find that Primitive

> concept

> > > > (when astrology was developed) requires full overhauling in

> view

> > of

> > > > modern scientific astronomy, according to which primitive

> concept

> > of

> > > > Universe (basis of astrology) was totally changed.

>

> We differ in the first place as to what is to be considered as

> Primitive.

>

> > > > After lot of research I wrote an original book on

> > astrology " Jyotish -

> > > > Kitna sahi kitna galat " in Hindi (330 pages).

>

> WHy are you calling it as Original? Say simply a book! I think you

> should have done this excercise of writting mails on verious fourms

> as part of your research and there by should have got some

authentic

> information about Vedic Jyotish,before writting your book. Since

you

> are doing this after your book is in market, there is ample chance

of

> doubting your intentions. Although, I personally feel that all your

> questions are unfeigned but you nerver know!

>

> >This book

> contains

> > the

> > > > detailed procedure adopted to formulate these principles on

the

> > basis

> > > > of the then knowledge about the Universe, which leads our

sages

> to

> > > > formulate these principles. This book was also published in

> > English

> > > > with the title " Astrology a science or myth " (450 pages). You

> can

> > > > realize that this is revolutionary book and will change the

> face

> > of

> > > > predictive astrology in due course.

>

> May be but face lift is in domain of Saptarishis! The astrology

> involved in Face and Saptarishi is what sages have written. Have

you

> ever gone for Saptarishi and their astrological relevance and face

> lift? This is where you require a teacher to unfold all this things

> for you.

>

> >If you interested to know

> >more

> > > > about the book or description of various chapters then you may

> > send

> > > > email to me. The book is being marketed in USA /UK etc.

> > > > Refer http://www.bokklubben.no/samboweb/produkt.do?

> > produktID=1759836

> > > > <http://www.bokklubben.no/samboweb/produkt.do?

produktID=1759836>

> > > >

> > > > http://www.thebookplace.com/bookplace/results-asp?AUB=sanat%

> > 20kumar%

> > > > <http://www.thebookplace.com/bookplace/results-asp?AUB=sanat%

> > 20kumar%>

> > > > 20jain & TAG= & CID=

> > > >

> > > > http://www.aggarwaloverseas.com/booksdetail.aspx?

> > > > <http://www.aggarwaloverseas.com/booksdetail.aspx?>

> > > > ProductID=64211 & catID=AGO010 & detail=t

>

> Marketing. So will not comment.

>

> > > >

> > > > At that time our sages were neither aware of Uranus, Neptune

> nor

> > they

> > > > were aware that solar and lunar eclipses occurred due to

> presence

> > of

> > > > Moon and shadow of Earth.

>

> Are you asking this or telling? i.e. Puch rahe ho ki bata rahe ho?

If

> is later,where is a proof? and if it is former then you are

> excercising your right to express your view.

>

> That's why they have developed the

> > concept

> > > > of Rahu and Ketu with retrograde motion of 3'11 " . It was

> > mentioned in

> > > > the Grahlaghav that eclipse occurred when Rahu/Ketu came

within

> 14

> > > > degree on Amavasya (dark night) or Puranmashi (full Moon).

>

> QUote the original shlokas in Sanskrit script and your understading

> of the shloka.

>

> >But

> > nobody

> > > > will be able to answer that why there was no lunar eclipse

when

> > Sun,

> > > > Moon and Rahu were at 203.01, 23.01 and 34.43 degree

> respectively

> > on

> > > > 08-11-1984 (Rahu was within 11.42 degree) or when Sun, Moon

and

> > Ketu

> > > > were at 319.74, 139.74 and 150.26 degree respectively on 03-

03-

> > 1988 (

> > > > Ketu was within 10.52 degree). Likewise I find that Solar

> eclipses

> > > > occurred even when difference between Moon and Rahu was more

> then

> > > > 14¢X. Sun and Moon were at 94.24 deg., whereas Rahu was at

79.04

> > deg.

> > > > on 21-07-1982 (Rahu was 15.20 deg. away). Sun and Moon were at

> > 76.49

> > > > deg., whereas Rahu was at 91.93 deg. on 02-07-2000 (Rahu was

> 15.14

> > > > deg. away).

>

> Once we read original shlokas from Grahlaghava,we will solve this

> riddle as well!

>

> > > > To give a modern scientific colour to the astrology, you will

> also

> > > > find in many modern astrological books that eclipse occurred

at

> > the

> > > > intersection point of orbit of the Sun and Moon (though it was

> not

> > > > known to our sages and Rahu Ketu were created on the basis of

> > myth).

> > > > Thus it is clear that at the time of full solar eclipse, when

> Moon

> > > > happens to be just over the Sun than Rahu must also be there.

> But

> > As

> > > > per almanac Ketu was shown at 194 and 177 degree on 12-11-1985

> > and 3-

> > > > 10-1986 (refer any almanac) respectively when there were full

> > solar

> > > > eclipse and position of Sun/Moon were at 206 and 166 degree

> > > > respectively.

>

> Are you sure about the Sun and the Moon deg?

>

> >You will agree that when there were full solar

> > eclipses

> > > > then on these dates either Rahu or Ketu must be at 206 and 166

> > degree

> > > > respectively, because only then full solar eclipse may

possible.

> > > > Whereas Ketu was being shown at 194 and 177 degrees in

almanac.

> > Thus

> > > > there was clear mistake of about 12 and 11 degrees

> respectively.

> > All

> > > > horoscopes are defective in this light and due to this

> fundamental

> > > > positional variation, prediction is also effected. If you want

> > then I

> > > > can give many more examples and very simple method of

detecting

> > them.

>

> Taht will be very good. Please do it as and when you get time.

>

> > > > I fully support that astrology (predictive) is not a science

>

> If this is logic then I am afraid, you are jumping to conclusions.

> Moreover, why are you comparing Science and Astrology? These are

two

> different subjects with their own merit and demerit. If you want to

> criticise Jyotish, do it as its own subject. By comparing it with

> other subject discussions go everywhere. When you try to prove that

> Jyotish is science,you possibly assuming that whatever science is

the

> only truth. It is indeed to some extent but beauty about science is

> that it has a attribute of being 'Nitya Nutan'. It contradicts its

> own principle over the period of time. SO whatever is truth

according

> to science may not be thruth tomorrow. But so far as it is not

proved

> untruth,we have to accept it as truth. In a way science makes us to

> accept untruth as truth and very same truth as untruth.

>

> but

> > in

> > > > primitive age predictive astrology was a mixture of astronomy

+

> > > > psychology + faith. Because astronomy is a science, psychology

> > > > (recently discovered and it was not known in primitive age)

> > played an

> > > > important role in handling a person by the astrologer due to

> > immense

> > > > faith over astrology+astrologer hence predictive astrology

> > appears to

> > > > be correct due to combined effect of all three.

>

> WHy psychology? Usually Jyotish can solve and should only solve

those

> problems where Human efforts dont work. Out of 33 cores devatas

which

> one is most required for your current problem and in which form one

> should propitiate it and with which instruments, is what is most

> important aspect of Vedic Jyotish. Future telling is just tiny part

> of that even that should be done under some conditions. Read BPHS

or

> Prashna Marga. Follow those rules in your test conditions.

>

> >You will also

> > agree

> > > > with the above observation after going through my original

> > > > revolutionary research.

>

> Revolutionary resereach with out meeting correct teachers?

>

> >Because if everything is pre-decided as

> > was

> > > > contention of sages

>

> Where and who said that everything is pre-decided? Sages have not

> said that. Sages have given enough freewill application in your

life!

>

> >then why we may take pains, why we may try

> to

> > do

> > > > some thing, because every thing will take place according to

> pre-

> > > > written destiny.

>

> WHo has written and where? This is not domain of Jyotish. Jyotish

is

> all about making the quality of life good. Some times by knowing

> future sometimes by doing remedy.

>

> >Secondly, there is no question of modifying

> that

> > pre-

> > > > written destiny, because if we try to change only our fate,

>

> Now look who is talking? How can you uuse a word like 'FATE'?

>

> even

> > then

> > > > all attached happening will automatically change creating a

> > cascading

> > > > effect, which in turn will change the pre-written fate of

every

> > > > person. In another case, if destiny is not pre-written or say

> pre-

> > > > defined than it is not possible to detect it. Because when

> every

> > Tom,

> > > > Dick and Harry are changing their destiny due to worship, good

> > deed

> > > > etc. then destiny of every one will continue remain under

> change.

>

> There are many examples in our Epics where it is said that one can

> change his course of life if such and such thing is done, Purans

are

> full of such stories. That is why there are remedial measures in

> Vedic Jyotish.

>

> > You

> > > > will agree that astrology is totally based on mathematical

> > > > calculation regarding planets, whose transit is fixed and can

> > never

> > > > and never be altered. Now when transit or birth chart cannot

be

> > > > altered it means result of calculation or say prediction is

also

> > > > fixed. Then how one may change his destiny (if it is ever

> > prewritten)

> > > > by adopting some means like offering, ring, vastu etc. because

> in

> > > > that case, if you like to say, then future events will be

> altered

> > but

> > > > how a calculation of planetary transit or linked prediction

can

> be

> > > > changed, which is fixed due to birth chart or fixed transit of

> > > > planets?

>

> You seemed to be confused here!(I may be wrong as well!) But truly

> speaking,it is not clear to me why same points are being raised

using

> different word combinition.

>

> > > >

> > > > Those who think that astrology is a science may be rest

assured

> > that

> > > > actually predictive astrology is not a science at all.

>

> Those who want to compare Astrology and Science,I request to keep

> them separate. It may be rest assured that Vedic Astrology makes

your

> life more comfortable than science!

>

> >Only

> > astronomy

> > > > and psychology (discovered only in last 200 years) were used

> > > > unknowingly by our sages for some prediction and it appears

> > correct.

>

> This is your conjucture. Is it not?

>

> > > > Hence predictive astrology is bogus and astrology is a myth.

>

> You can keep on saying this but you dont seem to be honest with

> yourself.

>

> > Still if

> > > > you have a faith on astrology then why don't you contact The

> James

> > > > Randi Educational Foundation who offeres a US $1000000 prize

to

> > > > anyone who can demonstrate that astrology works.

>

> Once they learn to know how Vedic Astrlogy works, possibly they

will

> withdraw this offer.

>

> >His e-mail and

> > > > website is jref@ <jref%40randi.org> and

> > > > http://www.randi.org <http://www.randi.org> Because modern

> > > > technologies like computer, TV, Newspaper etc. are being used

to

> > > > spread this myth in the cover up of science with vested

business

> > > > interest. Hence it requires a logical approach to fight this

> sort

> > of

> > > > ignorance.

>

> Yours is certainly not logical approch.

>

> My book has vital scientific information in this

> regard

> > > > and readers of the book are fully convinced that astrology

> > > > (predictive) is bogus, because procedure adopted to formulate

> > > > principles was neither logical nor based on correct

information

> of

> > > > Universe, solar system.

>

> I will surly read your book but not by paying from my pocket. You

can

> arrange a one for me and send it to me.

>

> > > >

> > > > I will like to have your critical comments for further

> > interaction on

> > > > my email sanatkumar_jain@

> > > > <sanatkumar_jain%40rediffmail.com> . It would be better

> to

> > know

> > > > the roots of astrology and facts, data behind it before

falling

> in

> > > > the trap and come forward to join hands because of AIDS

> > (Astrology Is

> > > > Damaging Society).

>

> It is more like Another Intellectual Damaging Society(AIDS)

>

> Thanks a lot for your Time and Space.

>

> Prabodh Vekhande

> Jai Jai Shankar

> Har Har Shankar

>

Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:31 pm

>

December 7, 2007

Dear Sanat Namaste

Lets go point wise. You have given reference of Vishnu Purana. I feel

first we should close this VP and Parashara issue. After that only

we can go for other points in your mail.

In the last mail,I asked you

>Where has Parashara said that earth is in the center of

>universe and stationary? Please,Quote the original shloka.

Your reply was

>You may read Vishnu Puran, which was written by him.

I was very clear in requesting original shloka given in Vishnu

Purana. But you avoided it. Now for your information I will give you

some of the Shlokas of Vishnu Purana that will change your view about

Parashara.

Lets see this shloka of Vishnu Purana

Naivastamanarkasya nodayaH sarvada sataH|

UdayastamanakhyaM hi darshanadarshanaM raveH||

Translation:

There is neither rising nor setting of the Sun as he is always there;

rising & setting simply imply his presence and his disappearance.

So it is clear that Parashara is indicating that rising and setting

of the Sun is illusion and the Sun is always visible. It means that

Parashara knew that the Sun is stationary and the earth moves around

it. It as well makes it clear that he knew that Earth is in round

shape.

Parashara has clearly said that

AhoratraVyavasthanakaranaM BhagawanNviH

Translation:

He causes the difference between day and night

Further Parashara says regarding Chandra

KshinaM Peetam suraiH Somamapyayati deeptiman|

Maitreyakakalam santam rashimnikena BhaskaraH||

Translation:

The radiant sun supplies the moon, when reduced by the draughts of

the gods to a single Kalá, with a single ray

So, it proves that Parashara knew that 1) Earth is not flat 2) The

Sun is always visible from the earth and he is not moving. But we

from earth get that illusion.

With this I have refuted your claim about Parashara. If you feel that

my translation is wrong, feel free to do it yourself and let us know.

Or if you have some other shlokas to support your claim,please

produce it. I will be more that happy to read it.

This makes it clear that without reading Vishnu Purana, just by

gathering information from sources like Internet, you have gone to

write a book to criticise Parashara!

Thanks a lot for your Time and Space.

Prabodh Vekhande

Jai Jai Shankar

Har Har Shankar

Vedic Astrologyandhealing , " sanat2221 "

<sanatkumar_jain wrote:

>

> Dear Prabodh,

> Namaskar,

> I really appreciate your patience to read my blog and answer it.

> Let us continue pointwise (with some further narration)

> ===========

> (((((((((((((((>But unfortunately you are standing in support of it

> like a lawyer

> >only due to faith (which has

> >been infused) and want to conclude like a judge that astrology is

a

> >science without knowing the

> >story of other side.

>

> Who are you Lawyer or a Judge? ))))))))))

> Initially I was also like many reader / astrologer. Hence I was

> just lawyer who supports his stand. But after digging the

principle.

> Whatever I have found and judged has already been mentioned in the

> Book. In nutshell I can say that astrologicai principels were

founded

> on Primitive knowledge. Hence it is not supportable with modern

> concept of Univerese. I am not pushing my idea that¡¦s why I just

put

> some questions so that some one may answer if I am wrong. Though

I

> have given some hints in support of my stand. So I have judged and

> intimating you to judge yourself.

> (((((((((>I can understand the problem of astrologer that they will

> loose

> >their business but if you are a

> >client then you must have right to know the truth or call an

> >astrologer in the consumer forum.

>

> If you can get any astrloger in consumer forum it will surly help

> Vedic Jyotish!)))))))))

>

> I am not asking for any prediction. And general public is not even

> aware with their right then how they can take an astrologer over

whom

> they have immense faith. Secondly not a single astrologer is

giving

> prediction with guarantte. If it fails even then they take

shelter

> that horoscope / time is not correct.

> Hence It is good the check the principle as to whether they have

any

> scientific or otherwise some logic or not., which I have done.

> ===========

> ((((((((> > >

> > > > At the time of formulating the astrological principles in

early

> > > > Primitive age, it was the concept that every living being has

> > > > capacity to move, whereas lifeless thing cannot move. This

> > religious

> > > > philosophy leads sages to classify all so-called planet (Sun,

> > Moon,

> > > > Mars etc.) as super living being (Deities).

>

> Now,I think it is just your opinion and not a statement of

> fact! )))))))))

> It is not my contention, but it is a simple definition which can be

> found in any scripture dealing with life (atma) and matter. Sun,

> Moon was treated as deities even in Ved and they are worshiped

for

> providing every requirement of life (agriculture , health etc.)

> =========================

> ((((((((> > > solar and lunar eclipse, which was the result of so-

> called

> > grabbing

> > > > the Sun and Moon by imaginary shadow planets Rahu and Ketu.

>

> This is again your opinion. Purpose of Rahu/Ketu is more than

> this.)))))))

> This is not my opinion. But Rahu ketu was only devised as a

result

> of eclipse. Though subsequently they were linked with the story of

> samudra manthan in which one demon want to sip nector and he was

seen

> by deities and killed since then Rahu ketu are after sun and Moon

> and they grab them which is seen as a eclipse. Donation etc. was

the

> remedy for freeing the Sun and so on¡K¡K¡K¡K

> So initially they were so but subsequently they were used in

> prediction with a fixed retrograde motion of 3-11 worked out on

the

> basis of eclipse. But in modern days it is claimed by

astrological

> books that they are intersection point of orbit of the Sun and

> Moon. But it is even not so which I have explained through the

> data of eclipse.

> =\===========

> (((((((((> > > King and so on. Thus procedure was devised to

> formulate various

> > > > astrological principles on the basis of the then knowledge of

> > sages

> > > > based on scriptures and their celestial observation. These

> > principles

> > > > were the key factors for deciding the fate.

>

> This is again not correct. In a way you are trying to suggest that

> since sages were able to predict grahana and that way Bhavishya of

> the Sun, they were assigned to predict about mortal beings! I am

> sorry,this is not the way Jyotisha came into being. On the other

> hand, there is ample scope to think that the entire Chaturvarna

> system and Hindu way of life revolved( and still continue to be)

> around Jyotish.)))))))))))))

>

> Our Vedic tradition was limited to worship of God in the form of

> Sun, Moon ¡K¡K. And our sages like Lagadh and so on were only busy

in

> working out the auspicious time for worship (Yagya etc), that¡¦s

why

> they devised the concept of constellation (28) and not 27 like

today

> attached with a deity. Thus there was only concept of good and bad

> time (for worship and not for prediction). Till the time of Gautam

> Buddha sages were turned to claim that any work may be done at

> auspicious time (position of planet, tithi etc) for good result

> (actually this was slightly turn from initially concept). Gautam

> Buddha was not in support of such practice. Thereafter due to

> business links with Babilonia, Greek our sages came to know about

the

> concept of Sign and their concept by which they (Babylonian) think

> that Sirius stat was the main reason of flood in Nile river and so

> on¡K¡K¡K¡K¡K..after which the concept of formulation of some

prediction

> about the human beings (which was not in babylonia) but our sages

who

> were deciding the fate of Sun, moon in the form of eclipse easily

> turned to the prediction of Kings. ¡K¡K¡K¡K. And so on

> Thus our life which revolove around the astrology was actually

> astronomy and not predictive astrology¡K¡K¡K.

>

> ((((((> > > spread to other civilisation and later on developed as

> Western

> > system.

>

> At least you agree that Western world got it from here.)))))))))))

>

> No dispute but westernerss are not prepared to accept this concept.

> Let them because they have no devise to link the planets with sign

> which was the work of our sages on the basis of the then concept

of

> Universe.

> ((((((((> astrological

> > > > principles lead to diverse predictions and that too diabolical

> > > > opposite to each other.

> This is not true. You may like to think again about it.

> If by chance a prediction (in fluke)

> may

> > come

> > > > true then they start to harp on the same prediction and start

> self

> > > > praising instead of applying the same socalled principle on

> other

> > > > horoscopes to see their failure.

> Here Astrologers are at fault, not Astrology I uppose!)))))))))))

> There are many contradiction points (even included in my book) and

> you can also find if you apply astrological principles then every

> principle will lead you to new direction which may be refuted by

> another principle (though it may located by astrologer or not),

which

> give ample scope to astrologer to predict according to his own

whim.

> As there is no set of principle that so and so principle will be

> cancelled by so and so principles.

> In this situation it is not the fault of the astrologer ( what he

> can do if some prediction is not true) at the most he can apply

> principles if 5 principls are + and other five are -ve then what

> he can do. So actually it is the fault of astrological principles

> that¡¦s why none of the astrologer is expert even after 2000

years.

>

> ========================

> (((((((((>Thus astrologer can only

> >mislead,

> > > > create confusion, try to cure `planets' and so on.

>

> Yes they can but not all are alike. There are really some good

> astrologers.)))))))

>

> If in India we would have any single astrologer who can predict on

> the basis of astrological principles then every problem of Indian

> public would have been solved.

> ==========

> ((((((((((>and what procedure was

> > > > adopted to formulate various principles relating to Lordship,

> > > > Friendship-enmity, Exalted-debilitated, Aspect, Vinshottary

> > > > periodicity etc.

>

> If you understand you will possibly appriciate Vedic Jyotish!)))))

> Yes I appreciate that our sages have tried so hard to learn it but

> what can be done if any experiment is not workable. Secondly

don¡¦t

> say then Vedic astrologer, Because Vedic astrologer were actually

> astronomers (in modern terminology) where as predictive astrology

was

> not vedic but subsequent branch which turned to be a business

source

> since long¡K¡K¡K.

>

> You are refusing my contention (about 10 question which I have

> raised), given in short because it is not possible to include the

> matter of 350 pages, as to how these principles were formulated

with

> the then knowledge. OK I am willing to drop if you or any one

else

> can provide me the logical answer by which all principles were

> formulated, in view of the then level of knowledge.

> =====================

> ((((((((((((One of them is Shree Sanjay Rath. Try to contact him

> first and

> request him to listen to you seriously. In case you fail with

Sanjay,

> ¡K¡K¡K¡K¡K..))))))))

>

> I have gone thorough lot of books and interacted with lot of

> astrologers but none of them is able to answer my queries because

> they are not willing to come out from the tunnel of faith. As we

can

> see that who religious preacher will admit that Earth is not

> stationery and flat because it was the contention of our sages.

So

> no body is willing to come out from their mindset. Yes they are

> willing to define old scripture in such a way so that they may

prove

> that it is well mentioned in the scripture. As we seen in the

case

> of Rahu ketu or I have seen in many matter. Because admitting that

> Uranus, Neptune could not be seen by sages will undermine the

whole

> set up and which in turn will disturb their own standing. ¡K¡K¡K..

> =================

> (((((((((Where has Parashara said that earth is in the center of

> universe and stationary? Please,Quote the original shloka.)))))))

> You may read Vishnu Puran, which was written by him. Hence while

> formulating the principles he take help of that concept. Even in

old

> Tettariy Brahmin (3-11-1) you may read the same concept. In Moksh

> Shastra you may read same story¡K¡K¡K..

> ========================================

> (((((((I my-self studying > astrology Self-study of any subject is

> very bad. Eklavya had to pay for it

> heavily.)))))))))

> It is not so. In 35 years I have learned many thing from many

> astrologers.

> ==========================

> (((((((Correct predictions using software??? You mean you developed

> s/w with AI? I will be interested in knowing the algorithm/strategy

> adopted? Please do answer this question as I know little bit of

> computer algorithms having done B.E in computer science.))))))))))

> Yes, even you can do it, If you have time and patience to find

> the truth. I myself developed the software in 1987. and you can do

> it. You have to break any principle in command so that with same

> position, combination, period, exalted etc. etc.. some defined

> prediction may come out. Then you have no discreation to manipulate

> any output. Even if you want some manipulation (correction) you

can

> do it in the SW itself so next time you will get socalled correct

> output. By this you can see that not a single principle or set of

> principle is able to give correct result.

> I have even prepared a horoscope by which you can see application

> of every principle in detail. Even then there is no correct

> prediction.

> ((((((((((((> > > modern scientific astronomy, according to which

> primitive

> concept > of > > > Universe (basis of astrology) was totally

changed.

>

> We differ in the first place as to what is to be considered as

> Primitive.)))))))))

> No difference as it is relative term. But in time scale we used to

> say it as a period between 500 BC to 500 AD. If any concept is

still

> valid then well and good like the concept of archmidies about the

> density and so on but if that concept is false in view of modern

> concept then it will be called primitive concept (like Earth is

> stationary and Sun is near in comparison to the Moon and so on).

And

> principles based on such primitive concept can only be pushed on

> the shoulder of faith

>

> (((((((WHy are you calling it as Original? Say simply a book!

I¡K¡K¡K¡K¡K)

> Because it is original and not copied from some books as is being

> done during writing of astrological books.

> ((((((((((((nor

> > they> > > were aware that solar and lunar eclipses occurred due to

> presence> of

> > > > Moon and shadow of Earth.

>

> Are you asking this or telling? i.e. Puch rahe ho ki bata rahe ho?

If

> is later,where is a proof? and if it is former then you are

> excercising your right to express your view.That's why they have

> developed the

> „« concept

> > > > of Rahu and Ketu with retrograde motion of 3'11 " . It

> was))))))))))))))))

> I think you have a misconcept that our sages were well aware with

the

> correct reason of eclipse ie shadow of Moon/ Earth. You may read

> Grahlaghave though it was quite new and written in 16th century.

> Even at that time there was no concept of shadow of Moon and Earth

> at the time of eclipse. Remember that concept of solar system was

> supported by Galileo in 17th century. Hence how a concept which was

> discovered in 17th century and that too which was not accepted

even

> in Europe because it was against the concept of Bible then how you

> can even think of such concept in Indian culture who was never free

> from foreign attackers and when reading was only permitted to

> Brahmins.

> „« =============

> ((((((((((Once we read original shlokas from Grahlaghava,we will

> solve this riddle as well!

> ¡K¡K¡K¡K.> > > eclipse and position of Sun/Moon were at 206 and 166

degree

> > > > respectively.

> Are you sure about the Sun and the Moon deg?))))))

>

> Even after that you will not be able to solve the mistake because

> panchag are made on the principles narrated in Grahlaghav, which

is

> latest after aryabhattiy, Bhaskaracharya and so on¡K¡K. And why I

will

> give you wrong data. It is a different thing that none of the

> astrologer has detected it. So it is not my fault. Even astrologer

> when detected the source of formulation of predictive principles.

> Because earlier this knowledge was limited to sages then Brahmins

and

> then businessmen astrologer and now computer astrologer. So every

one

> was busy in their business (or say popularity) interest.So it is

not

> my fault.

> ((((((((> then I

> > > > can give many more examples and very simple method of

detecting

> > them.

> Taht will be very good. Please do it as and when you get

> time.)))))))))

> Why worry take the data of any latest full eclipse and compare it .

>

> (((((((((> > > I fully support that astrology (predictive) is not a

> science

>

> If this is logic then I am afraid, you are jumping to

> conclusions.))))))))))))

> I am not jumping to the conclusion. I have come to the conclusion

> that predictive astrology is not a science because initial

> data/information on the basis of which all these principles were

> formulated are wrong. But our vedic tradition was limited to the

> study of movement of Sun and Moon, which is astronomy (in ancient

> time it was known as astrology). Hence I say that astrology is

bogus

> whereas astronomy is science.

> (((((((((((that it has a attribute of being 'Nitya Nutan'. It

> contradicts its own principle over the period of time. SO whatever

is

> truth according to science may not be thruth tomorrow. But so far

as

> it is not proved untruth,we have to accept it as truth. In a way

> science makes us to accept untruth as truth and very same truth as

> untruth. )))))))))

> Yes in astronomy we are learning lot new things but astrological

> principles which were once formulated on the basis of wrong data

has

> not been modified, tested. Except providing new statistical data of

> planets (borrowed from NASA) in astrological (predictive) books

to

> confuse general public so that they may think that it was the

concept

> of our sages and so on¡K¡K¡K.

> ==================

> (((((((WHy psychology? Usually Jyotish can solve and should only

> solve those problems where Human efforts dont work. ¡K¡K.Follow

those

> rules in your test conditions.)))))))

> It is only your faith. If it would have been possible to change

our

> future (as predicted by astrologer) then there would have not

been

> a single problem.

> =============================

> (((((Jyotish is all about making the quality of life good. Some

times

> by knowing future sometimes by doing remedy. ))))))

> If some thing is fixed only then it can be worked out. And if

> we modify, change that event then how you can say that it was

> fixed according to the movement of planet which is fixed. If a

> single event may be changed (remedy) then all connecting events

will

> also be changed creating a cascading effect. Thus future of other

> person will also be changed with your remedy. Hence if every thing

> is changing due to remedy than where is the prediction, which is

> fixed on the basis of fixed horoscope / transit of planets.

> ((((((((((Now look who is talking? How can you uuse a word

> like 'FATE'? )))))))))

> Fate, destiny is same and when it is disclosed it is prediction.

> ((((((((. That is why there are remedial measures in

> Vedic Jyotish¡K¡K¡K¡K¡K¡K. It may be rest assured that Vedic

Astrology

> makes your life more comfortable than science!)))))))))

> There was no vedic Jyotish. There was only Vedic jyotish which

> deals with the transit of Sun and Moon. There was not Vedic

> principles. It is the word which has been coined by the

astrologer

> keeping in mind the faith towards Ved. There is not a single

> predictive principle in Ved and not even the mention of sign. So

how

> you are saying that it is Vedic Jyotish.

> ==============

> (((((((((((> Still if

> > > > you have a faith on astrology then why don't you contact The

> James

> > > > Randi Educational Foundation who offeres a US $1000000 prize

to

> > > > anyone who can demonstrate that astrology works.

>

> Once they learn to know how Vedic Astrlogy works, possibly they

will

> withdraw this offer.))))))))

> They will learn only after paying one million dollar. Why

> astrologers of the world including India do not try to grab this

> much amount to teach them. Pl ask your astrologer.

> =============================

>

> ((((((((Yours is certainly not logical approch. ))))))

> If there is no logic then leave it. Because I only want to inform

> you, not more then this. Thereafte it is you who may or may not

> like to change. It is our history (humanbeing) that we like to

be

> governed by masses. But new horizon can only be opened by a

> venture and not by following primitive concept.

> (((((((((I will surly read your book but not by paying from my

> pocket. You can arrange a one for me and send it to me.-

¡K¡K¡K¡K¡K¡K¡K It is

> more like Another Intellectual Damaging Society(AIDS)))))))))))

>

> It is your discreation but I am not going to provide it. You have

to

> search it (if some one provide you in free).

> It is not like Another Intellectual Damaging Society(AIDS) But it

is

> more like Another Intellectual Developing Society(AIDS)

> =====================================

> Thanks a lot for providing so much time in reading and writing such

a

> fine comments.

> Yours truly,

>

> Sanat

> Sanatkumar_jain

> 6-12-2007

Vedic Astrologyandhealing , " Prabodh Vekhande "

> <amolmandar@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Shree Sanat Namaste

> >

> > My comments in your reply.

> >

> > ASTROLOGY A SCIENCE OR MYTH

> > >Will you please like to ponder and instead of sticking to some

> > misconcept regarding astrology on

> > >which you have not studied in depth but you only have faith,

> because

> > >you have been informed like

> > > this.

> >

> > I am ready to be well informed. Are you ready to inform me what

is

> > well?

> >

> > >So come out and think with open mind and decide yourself as to

> > > whether astrology is scientific or is being given coverup of

> > >science due to some vested interest.

> >

> > ok.

> >

> > > I do not want to hurt the sentiments of astrologers or who are

in

> > >support of astrology, but I only want to emphasise that if you

> think

> > >that it is a science then let us examine it and then

> > >there will be no question of hurting, because you have not

> > >formulated the principles.

> >

> > Yes correct. You should as well be equally open hearted.

> >

> > >But unfortunately you are standing in support of it like a

lawyer

> > >only due to faith (which has

> > >been infused) and want to conclude like a judge that astrology

is

> a

> > >science without knowing the

> > >story of other side.

> >

> > Who are you Lawyer or a Judge?

> >

> > >I can understand the problem of astrologer that they will loose

> > >their business but if you are a

> > >client then you must have right to know the truth or call an

> > >astrologer in the consumer forum.

> >

> > If you can get any astrloger in consumer forum it will surly help

> > Vedic Jyotish!

> >

> > > > >

> > > > > At the time of formulating the astrological principles in

> early

> > > > > Primitive age, it was the concept that every living being

has

> > > > > capacity to move, whereas lifeless thing cannot move. This

> > > religious

> > > > > philosophy leads sages to classify all so-called planet

(Sun,

> > > Moon,

> > > > > Mars etc.) as super living being (Deities).

> >

> > Now,I think it is just your opinion and not a statement of fact!

> >

> > >>In those days only

> > > sages

> > > > > had social sanction to study religious scriptures. Thus

after

> > > > > prolonged observation of the sky they developed the skill to

> > > predict

> > > > > solar and lunar eclipse, which was the result of so-called

> > > grabbing

> > > > > the Sun and Moon by imaginary shadow planets Rahu and Ketu.

> >

> > This is again your opinion. Purpose of Rahu/Ketu is more than

this.

> >

> > > > > They were also able to predict the timing of eclipse and its

> > > > > duration. They have devised an ingenious way to offer

> donations

> > > etc.

> > > > > to get them free from the clutches of Rahu and Ketu, which

is

> > > still

> > > > > being followed.

> >

> > Now you have touched two different things! Finding duration of

> > eclipse and offering donations(i.e remedy for it) is altogether

> > different thing. Logic of each remedy can be seen if at all you

are

> > ready to put yourself for that.

> >

> > >It was also religious concept that fate of

> > > everybody

> > > > > is pre-decided according to their deeds. Thus in this

> > situation,

> > > it

> > > > > was common wisdom as to when sages were able to predict the

> > fate

> > > of

> > > > > deities like Sun and Moon then why they could not predict

the

> > > fate of

> > > > > King and so on. Thus procedure was devised to formulate

> various

> > > > > astrological principles on the basis of the then knowledge

of

> > > sages

> > > > > based on scriptures and their celestial observation. These

> > > principles

> > > > > were the key factors for deciding the fate.

> >

> > This is again not correct. In a way you are trying to suggest

that

> > since sages were able to predict grahana and that way Bhavishya

of

> > the Sun, they were assigned to predict about mortal beings! I am

> > sorry,this is not the way Jyotisha came into being. On the other

> > hand, there is ample scope to think that the entire Chaturvarna

> > system and Hindu way of life revolved( and still continue to be)

> > around Jyotish.

> >

> > > > >

> > > > > Procedure adopted to formulate these principles was never

> > > percolated

> > > > > in the Indian society due to illiteracy and hard barrier to

> > learn

> > > > > such knowledge by other castes. Subsequently these

principles

> > were

> > > > > spread to other civilisation and later on developed as

Western

> > > system.

> >

> > At least you agree that Western world got it from here.

> >

> > > > > What is happening nowadays that there are two groups. One

> group

> > > > > belongs to astrologers who always try to support astrology

due

> > to

> > > > > their business considerations (these astrologers always try

to

> > fit

> > > > > past event very precisely within some astrological principle

> > > within a

> > > > > capsule of ved, religion, astronomy (eclipse etc.) and faith

> > etc.,

> > > > > but they are unable to predict any future event.

> >

> > It indeed seems to be a very common!

> >

> > Because

> > > astrological

> > > > > principles lead to diverse predictions and that too

diabolical

> > > > > opposite to each other.

> >

> > This is not true. You may like to think again about it.

> >

> > If by chance a prediction (in fluke)

> > may

> > > come

> > > > > true then they start to harp on the same prediction and

start

> > self

> > > > > praising instead of applying the same socalled principle on

> > other

> > > > > horoscopes to see their failure.

> >

> > Here Astrologers are at fault, not Astrology I suppose!

> >

> > >Thus astrologer can only

> > >mislead,

> > > > > create confusion, try to cure `planets' and so on.

> >

> > Yes they can but not all are alike. There are really some good

> > astrologers.

> >

> > >You can find

> > > that

> > > > > only this is going on in every forum), whereas other group

> (say

> > > > > scientist) try to raise some logical questions against

> > >astrology.

> >

> > I suppose you are in both and hence finding your real position!

> >

> > > But

> > > > > none of them have ever tried to investigate as to what was

the

> > > level

> > > > > of information of sages about the Universe, who developed

> > > > > astrological principles in primitive age

> >

> > Primitive age? In Hindu context we are now living in intellectual

> > primitive age!

> >

> > >and what procedure was

> > > > > adopted to formulate various principles relating to

Lordship,

> > > > > Friendship-enmity, Exalted-debilitated, Aspect, Vinshottary

> > > > > periodicity etc.

> >

> > If you understand you will possibly appriciate Vedic Jyotish!

> >

> > >If we analyse whole set of principles then

> > > following

> > > > > questions may be raised (basis of formulation is given in

> > > subpara).

> >

> > You seem to be doing that. Its really good.

> >

> > > > >

> > > > > 1 What procedure was adopted to allot twelve signs among

seven

> > > > > planets (as Mars is lord of Aries, Scorpio etc.) ?

> > > > >

> > > > > It was based on the concept that Sun is just above the

> > stationary

> > > > > Earth and Moon is above the Sun and so on..........

> >

> > If it is your answer,then I feel it is not correct.

> >

> > > > >

> > > > > 2 What procedure was adopted to decide that there is enmity

> and

> > > > > friendship between some planets (as Sun and Saturn are

enemy

> of

> > > each

> > > > > other) ?

> > > > > Based on the Indian myth of fight between deities and demons

> > over

> > > > > nector after sea-churning...........

> >

> > If it is your answer,then I feel it is not correct.

> >

> > > > > 3 What procedure was adopted to decide various aspect (full,

> > > quarter

> > > > > to full, half and quarter), (as planets have full aspect on

> > > seventh

> > > > > house) ?

> > > > > Based on the position of army in the battle field...........

> >

> > If it is your answer,then I feel it is not correct.

> >

> > > > >

> > > > > 4 What procedure was adopted to decide that planets are

> exalted

> > > and

> > > > > debilitated at some degree (as Sun is exalted at 10 deg. of

> > Aries

> > > > > sign) ?

> >

> > > > > Based on planetary situation linked with Sun, when duration

of

> > the

> > > > > day is more in comparison to night......

> >

> > If it is your answer,then I feel it is not correct.

> >

> > > > > 5 What procedure was adopted to decide that most powerful

and

> > hub

> > > of

> > > > > our solar system, Sun has 6 years vinshottary dasha whereas

> > Venus

> > > (a

> > > > > small planet) has 20 years ?

> > > > > Based on two triangles derived after working out the effect

of

> > > > > Universe on the basis of lord and exalted.......

> >

> > If it is your answer,then I feel it is not correct.

> >

> > > > > 6 What procedure was adopted to allot various constellations

> > > between

> > > > > nine planets with different vinshottary dasha ?

> > > > >

> > > > > Kratica was first constellation in Indian

scriptures..........

> >

> > If it is your answer,then I feel it is not correct.

> >

> > > > >

> > > > > 7 What procedure was adopted to decide order of days of a

week

> > > > > (Sunday, Monday etc.) ?

> > > > > Based on distribution of 60 Ghati (Ghat = pitcher) in the

> > > structure

> > > > > of Universe where Sun is nearer and Moon is far away.....

> >

> > If it is your answer,then I feel it is not correct.

> >

> > > > >

> > > > > 8 What procedure was adopted to decide fixed retrograde

motion

> > of

> > > > > Rahu Ketu (3-11 minute-second per day)?

> > > > > On the basis of recurrence of eclipse.....

> >

> > If it is your answer,then I feel it is not correct.

> >

> > > > > 9 What procedure was adopted to decide that Rahu, Ketu are

180

> > > deg.

> > > > > apart?

> > > > > On the basis of recurrence of eclipse...........

> >

> > If it is your answer,then I feel it is not correct.

> >

> > > > > 10 What procedure was adopted to decide timings of eclipse ?

> > > > > Repetition of eclipse after fixed constellation

> month..........

> > > > >

> > > > > Thus there may be endless questions, with a final question

as

> to

> > > > > whether present form of astrology is correct? If some one

gave

> > > > > answers to these questions then he will realise that entire

> > > > > astrological principles are totally based on wrong concept

of

> > > > > Universe.

> >

> > You have good set of questions but possibly have not met correct

> > Jyotish. There are two persons who can answer all your question

and

> > possibly help you to change your perception about Vedic

Astrology.

> > One of them is Shree Sanjay Rath. Try to contact him first and

> > request him to listen to you seriously. In case you fail with

> Sanjay,

> > (Sanjay refuses to yield to you. I know that he has all your

> answers.

> > Whether he will share his knowledge with you depends on your good

> > luck.) contact me I will give address of the second one.

> >

> > > > >

> > > > > Everybody may agree that every research is based on the then

> > > > > knowledge. In the same way, when astrology was developed by

> sage

> > > > > Parashar etc. At that time it was believed that Earth is in

> the

> > > > > centre of the Universe and stationary (it is also believed

in

> > all

> > > > > religions).

> >

> > Where has Parashara said that earth is in the center of universe

> and

> > stationary? Please,Quote the original shloka.

> >

> > >Beside this it was also believed (you may read any

> > old

> > > > > scriptures) that Sun is nearer from the Earth, whereas Moon

is

> > > beyond

> > > > > Sun. All constellations are situated in between Mercury and

> > Moon.

> > > > > You may be surprised to know that all astrological

principles

> > are

> > > > > actually fabricated around this concept.

> >

> > WHich old one are you refering here?

> >

> > I my-self studying

> > > astrology

> >

> > Self-study of any subject is very bad. Eklavya had to pay for it

> > heavily.

> >

> > > > > since last 35 years and developed softwares to conclude

> correct

> > > > > prediction.

> >

> > Correct predictions using software??? You mean you developed s/w

> with

> > AI? I will be interested in knowing the algorithm/strategy

adopted?

> > Please do answer this question as I know little bit of computer

> > algorithms having done B.E in computer science.

> >

> > >But if it is true at one time then same combination

> > is

> > > > > not true in other case. It leads me to think afresh

logically

> > and

> > > > > systematically over this subject and I find that Primitive

> > concept

> > > > > (when astrology was developed) requires full overhauling in

> > view

> > > of

> > > > > modern scientific astronomy, according to which primitive

> > concept

> > > of

> > > > > Universe (basis of astrology) was totally changed.

> >

> > We differ in the first place as to what is to be considered as

> > Primitive.

> >

> > > > > After lot of research I wrote an original book on

> > > astrology " Jyotish -

> > > > > Kitna sahi kitna galat " in Hindi (330 pages).

> >

> > WHy are you calling it as Original? Say simply a book! I think

you

> > should have done this excercise of writting mails on verious

fourms

> > as part of your research and there by should have got some

> authentic

> > information about Vedic Jyotish,before writting your book. Since

> you

> > are doing this after your book is in market, there is ample

chance

> of

> > doubting your intentions. Although, I personally feel that all

your

> > questions are unfeigned but you nerver know!

> >

> > >This book

> > contains

> > > the

> > > > > detailed procedure adopted to formulate these principles on

> the

> > > basis

> > > > > of the then knowledge about the Universe, which leads our

> sages

> > to

> > > > > formulate these principles. This book was also published in

> > > English

> > > > > with the title " Astrology a science or myth " (450 pages).

You

> > can

> > > > > realize that this is revolutionary book and will change the

> > face

> > > of

> > > > > predictive astrology in due course.

> >

> > May be but face lift is in domain of Saptarishis! The astrology

> > involved in Face and Saptarishi is what sages have written. Have

> you

> > ever gone for Saptarishi and their astrological relevance and

face

> > lift? This is where you require a teacher to unfold all this

things

> > for you.

> >

> > >If you interested to know

> > >more

> > > > > about the book or description of various chapters then you

may

> > > send

> > > > > email to me. The book is being marketed in USA /UK etc.

> > > > > Refer http://www.bokklubben.no/samboweb/produkt.do?

> > > produktID=1759836

> > > > > <http://www.bokklubben.no/samboweb/produkt.do?

> produktID=1759836>

> > > > >

> > > > > http://www.thebookplace.com/bookplace/results-asp?AUB=sanat%

> > > 20kumar%

> > > > > <http://www.thebookplace.com/bookplace/results-asp?

AUB=sanat%

> > > 20kumar%>

> > > > > 20jain & TAG= & CID=

> > > > >

> > > > > http://www.aggarwaloverseas.com/booksdetail.aspx?

> > > > > <http://www.aggarwaloverseas.com/booksdetail.aspx?>

> > > > > ProductID=64211 & catID=AGO010 & detail=t

> >

> > Marketing. So will not comment.

> >

> > > > >

> > > > > At that time our sages were neither aware of Uranus, Neptune

> > nor

> > > they

> > > > > were aware that solar and lunar eclipses occurred due to

> > presence

> > > of

> > > > > Moon and shadow of Earth.

> >

> > Are you asking this or telling? i.e. Puch rahe ho ki bata rahe

ho?

> If

> > is later,where is a proof? and if it is former then you are

> > excercising your right to express your view.

> >

> > That's why they have developed the

> > > concept

> > > > > of Rahu and Ketu with retrograde motion of 3'11 " . It was

> > > mentioned in

> > > > > the Grahlaghav that eclipse occurred when Rahu/Ketu came

> within

> > 14

> > > > > degree on Amavasya (dark night) or Puranmashi (full Moon).

> >

> > QUote the original shlokas in Sanskrit script and your

understading

> > of the shloka.

> >

> > >But

> > > nobody

> > > > > will be able to answer that why there was no lunar eclipse

> when

> > > Sun,

> > > > > Moon and Rahu were at 203.01, 23.01 and 34.43 degree

> > respectively

> > > on

> > > > > 08-11-1984 (Rahu was within 11.42 degree) or when Sun, Moon

> and

> > > Ketu

> > > > > were at 319.74, 139.74 and 150.26 degree respectively on 03-

> 03-

> > > 1988 (

> > > > > Ketu was within 10.52 degree). Likewise I find that Solar

> > eclipses

> > > > > occurred even when difference between Moon and Rahu was more

> > then

> > > > > 14¢X. Sun and Moon were at 94.24 deg., whereas Rahu was at

> 79.04

> > > deg.

> > > > > on 21-07-1982 (Rahu was 15.20 deg. away). Sun and Moon were

at

> > > 76.49

> > > > > deg., whereas Rahu was at 91.93 deg. on 02-07-2000 (Rahu was

> > 15.14

> > > > > deg. away).

> >

> > Once we read original shlokas from Grahlaghava,we will solve this

> > riddle as well!

> >

> > > > > To give a modern scientific colour to the astrology, you

will

> > also

> > > > > find in many modern astrological books that eclipse

occurred

> at

> > > the

> > > > > intersection point of orbit of the Sun and Moon (though it

was

> > not

> > > > > known to our sages and Rahu Ketu were created on the basis

of

> > > myth).

> > > > > Thus it is clear that at the time of full solar eclipse,

when

> > Moon

> > > > > happens to be just over the Sun than Rahu must also be

there.

> > But

> > > As

> > > > > per almanac Ketu was shown at 194 and 177 degree on 12-11-

1985

> > > and 3-

> > > > > 10-1986 (refer any almanac) respectively when there were

full

> > > solar

> > > > > eclipse and position of Sun/Moon were at 206 and 166 degree

> > > > > respectively.

> >

> > Are you sure about the Sun and the Moon deg?

> >

> > >You will agree that when there were full solar

> > > eclipses

> > > > > then on these dates either Rahu or Ketu must be at 206 and

166

> > > degree

> > > > > respectively, because only then full solar eclipse may

> possible.

> > > > > Whereas Ketu was being shown at 194 and 177 degrees in

> almanac.

> > > Thus

> > > > > there was clear mistake of about 12 and 11 degrees

> > respectively.

> > > All

> > > > > horoscopes are defective in this light and due to this

> > fundamental

> > > > > positional variation, prediction is also effected. If you

want

> > > then I

> > > > > can give many more examples and very simple method of

> detecting

> > > them.

> >

> > Taht will be very good. Please do it as and when you get time.

> >

> > > > > I fully support that astrology (predictive) is not a science

> >

> > If this is logic then I am afraid, you are jumping to

conclusions.

> > Moreover, why are you comparing Science and Astrology? These are

> two

> > different subjects with their own merit and demerit. If you want

to

> > criticise Jyotish, do it as its own subject. By comparing it with

> > other subject discussions go everywhere. When you try to prove

that

> > Jyotish is science,you possibly assuming that whatever science is

> the

> > only truth. It is indeed to some extent but beauty about science

is

> > that it has a attribute of being 'Nitya Nutan'. It contradicts

its

> > own principle over the period of time. SO whatever is truth

> according

> > to science may not be thruth tomorrow. But so far as it is not

> proved

> > untruth,we have to accept it as truth. In a way science makes us

to

> > accept untruth as truth and very same truth as untruth.

> >

> > but

> > > in

> > > > > primitive age predictive astrology was a mixture of

astronomy

> +

> > > > > psychology + faith. Because astronomy is a science,

psychology

> > > > > (recently discovered and it was not known in primitive age)

> > > played an

> > > > > important role in handling a person by the astrologer due to

> > > immense

> > > > > faith over astrology+astrologer hence predictive astrology

> > > appears to

> > > > > be correct due to combined effect of all three.

> >

> > WHy psychology? Usually Jyotish can solve and should only solve

> those

> > problems where Human efforts dont work. Out of 33 cores devatas

> which

> > one is most required for your current problem and in which form

one

> > should propitiate it and with which instruments, is what is most

> > important aspect of Vedic Jyotish. Future telling is just tiny

part

> > of that even that should be done under some conditions. Read BPHS

> or

> > Prashna Marga. Follow those rules in your test conditions.

> >

> > >You will also

> > > agree

> > > > > with the above observation after going through my original

> > > > > revolutionary research.

> >

> > Revolutionary resereach with out meeting correct teachers?

> >

> > >Because if everything is pre-decided as

> > > was

> > > > > contention of sages

> >

> > Where and who said that everything is pre-decided? Sages have not

> > said that. Sages have given enough freewill application in your

> life!

> >

> > >then why we may take pains, why we may try

> > to

> > > do

> > > > > some thing, because every thing will take place according to

> > pre-

> > > > > written destiny.

> >

> > WHo has written and where? This is not domain of Jyotish. Jyotish

> is

> > all about making the quality of life good. Some times by knowing

> > future sometimes by doing remedy.

> >

> > >Secondly, there is no question of modifying

> > that

> > > pre-

> > > > > written destiny, because if we try to change only our fate,

> >

> > Now look who is talking? How can you uuse a word like 'FATE'?

> >

> > even

> > > then

> > > > > all attached happening will automatically change creating a

> > > cascading

> > > > > effect, which in turn will change the pre-written fate of

> every

> > > > > person. In another case, if destiny is not pre-written or

say

> > pre-

> > > > > defined than it is not possible to detect it. Because when

> > every

> > > Tom,

> > > > > Dick and Harry are changing their destiny due to worship,

good

> > > deed

> > > > > etc. then destiny of every one will continue remain under

> > change.

> >

> > There are many examples in our Epics where it is said that one

can

> > change his course of life if such and such thing is done, Purans

> are

> > full of such stories. That is why there are remedial measures in

> > Vedic Jyotish.

> >

> > > You

> > > > > will agree that astrology is totally based on mathematical

> > > > > calculation regarding planets, whose transit is fixed and

can

> > > never

> > > > > and never be altered. Now when transit or birth chart

cannot

> be

> > > > > altered it means result of calculation or say prediction is

> also

> > > > > fixed. Then how one may change his destiny (if it is ever

> > > prewritten)

> > > > > by adopting some means like offering, ring, vastu etc.

because

> > in

> > > > > that case, if you like to say, then future events will be

> > altered

> > > but

> > > > > how a calculation of planetary transit or linked prediction

> can

> > be

> > > > > changed, which is fixed due to birth chart or fixed transit

of

> > > > > planets?

> >

> > You seemed to be confused here!(I may be wrong as well!) But

truly

> > speaking,it is not clear to me why same points are being raised

> using

> > different word combinition.

> >

> > > > >

> > > > > Those who think that astrology is a science may be rest

> assured

> > > that

> > > > > actually predictive astrology is not a science at all.

> >

> > Those who want to compare Astrology and Science,I request to keep

> > them separate. It may be rest assured that Vedic Astrology makes

> your

> > life more comfortable than science!

> >

> > >Only

> > > astronomy

> > > > > and psychology (discovered only in last 200 years) were used

> > > > > unknowingly by our sages for some prediction and it appears

> > > correct.

> >

> > This is your conjucture. Is it not?

> >

> > > > > Hence predictive astrology is bogus and astrology is a myth.

> >

> > You can keep on saying this but you dont seem to be honest with

> > yourself.

> >

> > > Still if

> > > > > you have a faith on astrology then why don't you contact The

> > James

> > > > > Randi Educational Foundation who offeres a US $1000000

prize

> to

> > > > > anyone who can demonstrate that astrology works.

> >

> > Once they learn to know how Vedic Astrlogy works, possibly they

> will

> > withdraw this offer.

> >

> > >His e-mail and

> > > > > website is jref@ <jref%40randi.org> and

> > > > > http://www.randi.org <http://www.randi.org> Because modern

> > > > > technologies like computer, TV, Newspaper etc. are being

used

> to

> > > > > spread this myth in the cover up of science with vested

> business

> > > > > interest. Hence it requires a logical approach to fight this

> > sort

> > > of

> > > > > ignorance.

> >

> > Yours is certainly not logical approch.

> >

> > My book has vital scientific information in this

> > regard

> > > > > and readers of the book are fully convinced that astrology

> > > > > (predictive) is bogus, because procedure adopted to

formulate

> > > > > principles was neither logical nor based on correct

> information

> > of

> > > > > Universe, solar system.

> >

> > I will surly read your book but not by paying from my pocket. You

> can

> > arrange a one for me and send it to me.

> >

> > > > >

> > > > > I will like to have your critical comments for further

> > > interaction on

> > > > > my email sanatkumar_jain@

> > > > > <sanatkumar_jain%40rediffmail.com> . It would be

better

> > to

> > > know

> > > > > the roots of astrology and facts, data behind it before

> falling

> > in

> > > > > the trap and come forward to join hands because of AIDS

> > > (Astrology Is

> > > > > Damaging Society).

> >

> > It is more like Another Intellectual Damaging Society(AIDS)

> >

> > Thanks a lot for your Time and Space.

> >

> > Prabodh Vekhande

> > Jai Jai Shankar

> > Har Har Shankar

> >

> > Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:31 pm

> >

>

December 11, 2007

Dear Prabodh,

Namaskar,

Thanks for your comments, Now I will try to reply your querries.

You have asked about the earth, daynight and setting of sun.

>>>>>>>>Naivastamanarkasya nodayaH sarvada sataH|

UdayastamanakhyaM hi darshanadarshanaM raveH||<<<<<<<<

Your sloks have taken out without related reference or you may have

only this slok that's why there is confusion.

2nd slok just after your slok says that Sun get hot till midday after

rising and then set with weak rays.

Refer slok 1-4-45, where it is mentioned that Varah put the Earth on

water and it floats like a big ship hence not sinking. He then

flatten the earth and created mountains here and there.

Refer 1-15-139, which says that deities continue to born like Sun is

rising and setting in the world (LOK).

Refer 2-2-5 which says about Jammu dweep and other dweep which are

surrounded by the juice of sugarcane, wine, Ghee, curd, milk, sweet

water beside salty water.

Jammudweep has sumeru parvat of 68 thousand yojan above the ground

with length of one lakh yojan (2-4-1).

Sun rotates around the sumeru parvat from a height of 1 lakh yojan

(14.4 lakh KM) and it went on the other side of the SParvat, thus it

is not visible. It is also stated by him that Sun left his fire in

water while setting and take back the fire from the water while

rising. It describe all other distance from the Earth like planets,

saptrishi, pole star, swarg, and so on.

2-9-2 says that Pole star rotates alongwith

Sun, Moon, planets, constalation like the wheel of Kumhar (pot

maker). There is no mention of earth.

Refer 1-5-31,32,33 which says that demons were born from

the `jangha' of Brahmaji and due to rise in `tamsik gun' he

(brahmaji) left the body thus night was created, likewise deities

were born from mouth and after leaving the body day was created.

Thus it has nothing to do with the presence of Sun.

Refer 1-9-113, which says that after samudra manthan sun and

constellation start to move on their path.

>>> KshinaM Peetam suraiH Somamapyayati deeptiman|

Maitreyakakalam santam rashimnikena BhaskaraH||<<

2nd slot Just before above slok says that rath (vehicle) of moon

whose one whell rest on Pole star rotate and it has a set order of

high and low rays like the Sun.

Thus your view that Earth rotates around the Sun and so on is not

based on factual position. How can our sages could imagine that Earth

is moving. It was even not think of in any other civilization. Even

Ptolemy has stated that Earth is stationery though the shape is

sphere in 200 AD.

Your translation can only be checked after hearing the reference of

slok.

>>>>This makes it clear that without reading Vishnu Purana, just by

gathering information from sources like Internet, you have gone to

write a book to criticise Parashara!<<<<<<<<<

I think above statement is more fitting to you because you are

referring a slok without reading the context of slok which is already

given at +_ 2 slok. But if you have the studied the VP as you want to

claim then you will find a full chapter against your stand and you

can check the counter slok.

I hope you will refer above sloks and can conclude your stand.

Yours

Sanat

11-12-2007

Vedic Astrologyandhealing , " Prabodh Vekhande "

<amolmandar wrote:

>

> Dear Sanat Namaste

>

> Lets go point wise. You have given reference of Vishnu Purana. I

feel

> first we should close this VP and Parashara issue. After that only

> we can go for other points in your mail.

>

> In the last mail,I asked you

>

> >Where has Parashara said that earth is in the center of

> >universe and stationary? Please,Quote the original shloka.

>

> Your reply was

>

> >You may read Vishnu Puran, which was written by him.

>

> I was very clear in requesting original shloka given in Vishnu

> Purana. But you avoided it. Now for your information I will give

you

> some of the Shlokas of Vishnu Purana that will change your view

about

> Parashara.

>

> Lets see this shloka of Vishnu Purana

>

> Naivastamanarkasya nodayaH sarvada sataH|

> UdayastamanakhyaM hi darshanadarshanaM raveH||

>

> Translation:

> There is neither rising nor setting of the Sun as he is always

there;

> rising & setting simply imply his presence and his disappearance.

>

> So it is clear that Parashara is indicating that rising and setting

> of the Sun is illusion and the Sun is always visible. It means that

> Parashara knew that the Sun is stationary and the earth moves

around

> it. It as well makes it clear that he knew that Earth is in round

> shape.

>

> Parashara has clearly said that

>

> AhoratraVyavasthanakaranaM BhagawanNviH

>

> Translation:

> He causes the difference between day and night

>

> Further Parashara says regarding Chandra

>

> KshinaM Peetam suraiH Somamapyayati deeptiman|

> Maitreyakakalam santam rashimnikena BhaskaraH||

>

> Translation:

> The radiant sun supplies the moon, when reduced by the draughts of

> the gods to a single Kalá, with a single ray

>

> So, it proves that Parashara knew that 1) Earth is not flat 2) The

> Sun is always visible from the earth and he is not moving. But we

> from earth get that illusion.

>

> With this I have refuted your claim about Parashara. If you feel

that

> my translation is wrong, feel free to do it yourself and let us

know.

> Or if you have some other shlokas to support your claim,please

> produce it. I will be more that happy to read it.

>

> This makes it clear that without reading Vishnu Purana, just by

> gathering information from sources like Internet, you have gone to

> write a book to criticise Parashara!

>

> Thanks a lot for your Time and Space.

>

> Prabodh Vekhande

> Jai Jai Shankar

> Har Har Shankar

>

> Vedic Astrologyandhealing , " sanat2221 "

> <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Prabodh,

> > Namaskar,

> > I really appreciate your patience to read my blog and answer it.

> > Let us continue pointwise (with some further narration)

> > ===========

> > (((((((((((((((>But unfortunately you are standing in support of

it

> > like a lawyer

> > >only due to faith (which has

> > >been infused) and want to conclude like a judge that astrology

is

> a

> > >science without knowing the

> > >story of other side.

> >

> > Who are you Lawyer or a Judge? ))))))))))

> > Initially I was also like many reader / astrologer. Hence I

was

> > just lawyer who supports his stand. But after digging the

> principle.

> > Whatever I have found and judged has already been mentioned in

the

> > Book. In nutshell I can say that astrologicai principels were

> founded

> > on Primitive knowledge. Hence it is not supportable with modern

> > concept of Univerese. I am not pushing my idea that¡¦s why I

just

> put

> > some questions so that some one may answer if I am wrong.

Though

> I

> > have given some hints in support of my stand. So I have judged

and

> > intimating you to judge yourself.

> > (((((((((>I can understand the problem of astrologer that they

will

> > loose

> > >their business but if you are a

> > >client then you must have right to know the truth or call an

> > >astrologer in the consumer forum.

> >

> > If you can get any astrloger in consumer forum it will surly help

> > Vedic Jyotish!)))))))))

> >

> > I am not asking for any prediction. And general public is not

even

> > aware with their right then how they can take an astrologer over

> whom

> > they have immense faith. Secondly not a single astrologer is

> giving

> > prediction with guarantte. If it fails even then they take

> shelter

> > that horoscope / time is not correct.

> > Hence It is good the check the principle as to whether they have

> any

> > scientific or otherwise some logic or not., which I have done.

> > ===========

> > ((((((((> > >

> > > > > At the time of formulating the astrological principles in

> early

> > > > > Primitive age, it was the concept that every living being

has

> > > > > capacity to move, whereas lifeless thing cannot move. This

> > > religious

> > > > > philosophy leads sages to classify all so-called planet

(Sun,

> > > Moon,

> > > > > Mars etc.) as super living being (Deities).

> >

> > Now,I think it is just your opinion and not a statement of

> > fact! )))))))))

> > It is not my contention, but it is a simple definition which can

be

> > found in any scripture dealing with life (atma) and matter. Sun,

> > Moon was treated as deities even in Ved and they are worshiped

> for

> > providing every requirement of life (agriculture , health etc.)

> > =========================

> > ((((((((> > > solar and lunar eclipse, which was the result of so-

> > called

> > > grabbing

> > > > > the Sun and Moon by imaginary shadow planets Rahu and Ketu.

> >

> > This is again your opinion. Purpose of Rahu/Ketu is more than

> > this.)))))))

> > This is not my opinion. But Rahu ketu was only devised as a

> result

> > of eclipse. Though subsequently they were linked with the story

of

> > samudra manthan in which one demon want to sip nector and he was

> seen

> > by deities and killed since then Rahu ketu are after sun and

Moon

> > and they grab them which is seen as a eclipse. Donation etc. was

> the

> > remedy for freeing the Sun and so on¡K¡K¡K¡K

> > So initially they were so but subsequently they were used in

> > prediction with a fixed retrograde motion of 3-11 worked out on

> the

> > basis of eclipse. But in modern days it is claimed by

> astrological

> > books that they are intersection point of orbit of the Sun and

> > Moon. But it is even not so which I have explained through the

> > data of eclipse.

> > =\===========

> > (((((((((> > > King and so on. Thus procedure was devised to

> > formulate various

> > > > > astrological principles on the basis of the then knowledge

of

> > > sages

> > > > > based on scriptures and their celestial observation. These

> > > principles

> > > > > were the key factors for deciding the fate.

> >

> > This is again not correct. In a way you are trying to suggest

that

> > since sages were able to predict grahana and that way Bhavishya

of

> > the Sun, they were assigned to predict about mortal beings! I am

> > sorry,this is not the way Jyotisha came into being. On the other

> > hand, there is ample scope to think that the entire Chaturvarna

> > system and Hindu way of life revolved( and still continue to be)

> > around Jyotish.)))))))))))))

> >

> > Our Vedic tradition was limited to worship of God in the form of

> > Sun, Moon ¡K¡K. And our sages like Lagadh and so on were only

busy

> in

> > working out the auspicious time for worship (Yagya etc), that¡¦s

> why

> > they devised the concept of constellation (28) and not 27 like

> today

> > attached with a deity. Thus there was only concept of good and

bad

> > time (for worship and not for prediction). Till the time of

Gautam

> > Buddha sages were turned to claim that any work may be done at

> > auspicious time (position of planet, tithi etc) for good result

> > (actually this was slightly turn from initially concept). Gautam

> > Buddha was not in support of such practice. Thereafter due to

> > business links with Babilonia, Greek our sages came to know about

> the

> > concept of Sign and their concept by which they (Babylonian)

think

> > that Sirius stat was the main reason of flood in Nile river and

so

> > on¡K¡K¡K¡K¡K..after which the concept of formulation of some

> prediction

> > about the human beings (which was not in babylonia) but our sages

> who

> > were deciding the fate of Sun, moon in the form of eclipse easily

> > turned to the prediction of Kings. ¡K¡K¡K¡K. And so on

> > Thus our life which revolove around the astrology was actually

> > astronomy and not predictive astrology¡K¡K¡K.

> >

> > ((((((> > > spread to other civilisation and later on developed

as

> > Western

> > > system.

> >

> > At least you agree that Western world got it from here.)))))))))))

> >

> > No dispute but westernerss are not prepared to accept this

concept.

> > Let them because they have no devise to link the planets with

sign

> > which was the work of our sages on the basis of the then

concept

> of

> > Universe.

> > ((((((((> astrological

> > > > > principles lead to diverse predictions and that too

diabolical

> > > > > opposite to each other.

> > This is not true. You may like to think again about it.

> > If by chance a prediction (in fluke)

> > may

> > > come

> > > > > true then they start to harp on the same prediction and

start

> > self

> > > > > praising instead of applying the same socalled principle on

> > other

> > > > > horoscopes to see their failure.

> > Here Astrologers are at fault, not Astrology I uppose!)))))))))))

> > There are many contradiction points (even included in my book)

and

> > you can also find if you apply astrological principles then every

> > principle will lead you to new direction which may be refuted

by

> > another principle (though it may located by astrologer or not),

> which

> > give ample scope to astrologer to predict according to his own

> whim.

> > As there is no set of principle that so and so principle will be

> > cancelled by so and so principles.

> > In this situation it is not the fault of the astrologer ( what

he

> > can do if some prediction is not true) at the most he can apply

> > principles if 5 principls are + and other five are -ve then

what

> > he can do. So actually it is the fault of astrological

principles

> > that¡¦s why none of the astrologer is expert even after 2000

> years.

> >

> > ========================

> > (((((((((>Thus astrologer can only

> > >mislead,

> > > > > create confusion, try to cure `planets' and so on.

> >

> > Yes they can but not all are alike. There are really some good

> > astrologers.)))))))

> >

> > If in India we would have any single astrologer who can predict

on

> > the basis of astrological principles then every problem of Indian

> > public would have been solved.

> > ==========

> > ((((((((((>and what procedure was

> > > > > adopted to formulate various principles relating to

Lordship,

> > > > > Friendship-enmity, Exalted-debilitated, Aspect, Vinshottary

> > > > > periodicity etc.

> >

> > If you understand you will possibly appriciate Vedic Jyotish!)))))

> > Yes I appreciate that our sages have tried so hard to learn it

but

> > what can be done if any experiment is not workable. Secondly

> don¡¦t

> > say then Vedic astrologer, Because Vedic astrologer were

actually

> > astronomers (in modern terminology) where as predictive astrology

> was

> > not vedic but subsequent branch which turned to be a business

> source

> > since long¡K¡K¡K.

> >

> > You are refusing my contention (about 10 question which I have

> > raised), given in short because it is not possible to include

the

> > matter of 350 pages, as to how these principles were formulated

> with

> > the then knowledge. OK I am willing to drop if you or any one

> else

> > can provide me the logical answer by which all principles were

> > formulated, in view of the then level of knowledge.

> > =====================

> > ((((((((((((One of them is Shree Sanjay Rath. Try to contact him

> > first and

> > request him to listen to you seriously. In case you fail with

> Sanjay,

> > ¡K¡K¡K¡K¡K..))))))))

> >

> > I have gone thorough lot of books and interacted with lot of

> > astrologers but none of them is able to answer my queries because

> > they are not willing to come out from the tunnel of faith. As we

> can

> > see that who religious preacher will admit that Earth is not

> > stationery and flat because it was the contention of our sages.

> So

> > no body is willing to come out from their mindset. Yes they are

> > willing to define old scripture in such a way so that they may

> prove

> > that it is well mentioned in the scripture. As we seen in the

> case

> > of Rahu ketu or I have seen in many matter. Because admitting

that

> > Uranus, Neptune could not be seen by sages will undermine the

> whole

> > set up and which in turn will disturb their own standing.

¡K¡K¡K..

> > =================

> > (((((((((Where has Parashara said that earth is in the center of

> > universe and stationary? Please,Quote the original shloka.)))))))

> > You may read Vishnu Puran, which was written by him. Hence while

> > formulating the principles he take help of that concept. Even in

> old

> > Tettariy Brahmin (3-11-1) you may read the same concept. In Moksh

> > Shastra you may read same story¡K¡K¡K..

> > ========================================

> > (((((((I my-self studying > astrology Self-study of any subject

is

> > very bad. Eklavya had to pay for it

> > heavily.)))))))))

> > It is not so. In 35 years I have learned many thing from many

> > astrologers.

> > ==========================

> > (((((((Correct predictions using software??? You mean you

developed

> > s/w with AI? I will be interested in knowing the

algorithm/strategy

> > adopted? Please do answer this question as I know little bit of

> > computer algorithms having done B.E in computer science.))))))))))

> > Yes, even you can do it, If you have time and patience to

find

> > the truth. I myself developed the software in 1987. and you can

do

> > it. You have to break any principle in command so that with

same

> > position, combination, period, exalted etc. etc.. some defined

> > prediction may come out. Then you have no discreation to

manipulate

> > any output. Even if you want some manipulation (correction) you

> can

> > do it in the SW itself so next time you will get socalled

correct

> > output. By this you can see that not a single principle or set of

> > principle is able to give correct result.

> > I have even prepared a horoscope by which you can see

application

> > of every principle in detail. Even then there is no correct

> > prediction.

> > ((((((((((((> > > modern scientific astronomy, according to which

> > primitive

> > concept > of > > > Universe (basis of astrology) was totally

> changed.

> >

> > We differ in the first place as to what is to be considered as

> > Primitive.)))))))))

> > No difference as it is relative term. But in time scale we used

to

> > say it as a period between 500 BC to 500 AD. If any concept is

> still

> > valid then well and good like the concept of archmidies about the

> > density and so on but if that concept is false in view of

modern

> > concept then it will be called primitive concept (like Earth is

> > stationary and Sun is near in comparison to the Moon and so on).

> And

> > principles based on such primitive concept can only be pushed on

> > the shoulder of faith

> >

> > (((((((WHy are you calling it as Original? Say simply a book!

> I¡K¡K¡K¡K¡K)

> > Because it is original and not copied from some books as is being

> > done during writing of astrological books.

> > ((((((((((((nor

> > > they> > > were aware that solar and lunar eclipses occurred due

to

> > presence> of

> > > > > Moon and shadow of Earth.

> >

> > Are you asking this or telling? i.e. Puch rahe ho ki bata rahe

ho?

> If

> > is later,where is a proof? and if it is former then you are

> > excercising your right to express your view.That's why they have

> > developed the

> > „« concept

> > > > > of Rahu and Ketu with retrograde motion of 3'11 " . It

> > was))))))))))))))))

> > I think you have a misconcept that our sages were well aware with

> the

> > correct reason of eclipse ie shadow of Moon/ Earth. You may read

> > Grahlaghave though it was quite new and written in 16th century.

> > Even at that time there was no concept of shadow of Moon and

Earth

> > at the time of eclipse. Remember that concept of solar system was

> > supported by Galileo in 17th century. Hence how a concept which

was

> > discovered in 17th century and that too which was not accepted

> even

> > in Europe because it was against the concept of Bible then how

you

> > can even think of such concept in Indian culture who was never

free

> > from foreign attackers and when reading was only permitted to

> > Brahmins.

> > „« =============

> > ((((((((((Once we read original shlokas from Grahlaghava,we will

> > solve this riddle as well!

> > ¡K¡K¡K¡K.> > > eclipse and position of Sun/Moon were at 206 and

166

> degree

> > > > > respectively.

> > Are you sure about the Sun and the Moon deg?))))))

> >

> > Even after that you will not be able to solve the mistake because

> > panchag are made on the principles narrated in Grahlaghav, which

> is

> > latest after aryabhattiy, Bhaskaracharya and so on¡K¡K. And why I

> will

> > give you wrong data. It is a different thing that none of the

> > astrologer has detected it. So it is not my fault. Even

astrologer

> > when detected the source of formulation of predictive principles.

> > Because earlier this knowledge was limited to sages then Brahmins

> and

> > then businessmen astrologer and now computer astrologer. So every

> one

> > was busy in their business (or say popularity) interest.So it is

> not

> > my fault.

> > ((((((((> then I

> > > > > can give many more examples and very simple method of

> detecting

> > > them.

> > Taht will be very good. Please do it as and when you get

> > time.)))))))))

> > Why worry take the data of any latest full eclipse and compare

it .

> >

> > (((((((((> > > I fully support that astrology (predictive) is not

a

> > science

> >

> > If this is logic then I am afraid, you are jumping to

> > conclusions.))))))))))))

> > I am not jumping to the conclusion. I have come to the conclusion

> > that predictive astrology is not a science because initial

> > data/information on the basis of which all these principles were

> > formulated are wrong. But our vedic tradition was limited to the

> > study of movement of Sun and Moon, which is astronomy (in ancient

> > time it was known as astrology). Hence I say that astrology is

> bogus

> > whereas astronomy is science.

> > (((((((((((that it has a attribute of being 'Nitya Nutan'. It

> > contradicts its own principle over the period of time. SO

whatever

> is

> > truth according to science may not be thruth tomorrow. But so far

> as

> > it is not proved untruth,we have to accept it as truth. In a way

> > science makes us to accept untruth as truth and very same truth

as

> > untruth. )))))))))

> > Yes in astronomy we are learning lot new things but

astrological

> > principles which were once formulated on the basis of wrong data

> has

> > not been modified, tested. Except providing new statistical data

of

> > planets (borrowed from NASA) in astrological (predictive) books

> to

> > confuse general public so that they may think that it was the

> concept

> > of our sages and so on¡K¡K¡K.

> > ==================

> > (((((((WHy psychology? Usually Jyotish can solve and should only

> > solve those problems where Human efforts dont work. ¡K¡K.Follow

> those

> > rules in your test conditions.)))))))

> > It is only your faith. If it would have been possible to change

> our

> > future (as predicted by astrologer) then there would have not

> been

> > a single problem.

> > =============================

> > (((((Jyotish is all about making the quality of life good. Some

> times

> > by knowing future sometimes by doing remedy. ))))))

> > If some thing is fixed only then it can be worked out. And

if

> > we modify, change that event then how you can say that it was

> > fixed according to the movement of planet which is fixed. If a

> > single event may be changed (remedy) then all connecting events

> will

> > also be changed creating a cascading effect. Thus future of

other

> > person will also be changed with your remedy. Hence if every

thing

> > is changing due to remedy than where is the prediction, which

is

> > fixed on the basis of fixed horoscope / transit of planets.

> > ((((((((((Now look who is talking? How can you uuse a word

> > like 'FATE'? )))))))))

> > Fate, destiny is same and when it is disclosed it is prediction.

> > ((((((((. That is why there are remedial measures in

> > Vedic Jyotish¡K¡K¡K¡K¡K¡K. It may be rest assured that Vedic

> Astrology

> > makes your life more comfortable than science!)))))))))

> > There was no vedic Jyotish. There was only Vedic jyotish which

> > deals with the transit of Sun and Moon. There was not Vedic

> > principles. It is the word which has been coined by the

> astrologer

> > keeping in mind the faith towards Ved. There is not a single

> > predictive principle in Ved and not even the mention of sign. So

> how

> > you are saying that it is Vedic Jyotish.

> > ==============

> > (((((((((((> Still if

> > > > > you have a faith on astrology then why don't you contact The

> > James

> > > > > Randi Educational Foundation who offeres a US $1000000

prize

> to

> > > > > anyone who can demonstrate that astrology works.

> >

> > Once they learn to know how Vedic Astrlogy works, possibly they

> will

> > withdraw this offer.))))))))

> > They will learn only after paying one million dollar. Why

> > astrologers of the world including India do not try to grab this

> > much amount to teach them. Pl ask your astrologer.

> > =============================

> >

> > ((((((((Yours is certainly not logical approch. ))))))

> > If there is no logic then leave it. Because I only want to

inform

> > you, not more then this. Thereafte it is you who may or may not

> > like to change. It is our history (humanbeing) that we like to

> be

> > governed by masses. But new horizon can only be opened by a

> > venture and not by following primitive concept.

> > (((((((((I will surly read your book but not by paying from my

> > pocket. You can arrange a one for me and send it to me.-

> ¡K¡K¡K¡K¡K¡K¡K It is

> > more like Another Intellectual Damaging Society(AIDS)))))))))))

> >

> > It is your discreation but I am not going to provide it. You

have

> to

> > search it (if some one provide you in free).

> > It is not like Another Intellectual Damaging Society(AIDS) But

it

> is

> > more like Another Intellectual Developing Society(AIDS)

> > =====================================

> > Thanks a lot for providing so much time in reading and writing

such

> a

> > fine comments.

> > Yours truly,

> >

> > Sanat

> > Sanatkumar_jain@

> > 6-12-2007

> >

> > Vedic Astrologyandhealing , " Prabodh

Vekhande "

> > <amolmandar@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Shree Sanat Namaste

> > >

> > > My comments in your reply.

> > >

> > > ASTROLOGY A SCIENCE OR MYTH

> > > >Will you please like to ponder and instead of sticking to some

> > > misconcept regarding astrology on

> > > >which you have not studied in depth but you only have faith,

> > because

> > > >you have been informed like

> > > > this.

> > >

> > > I am ready to be well informed. Are you ready to inform me what

> is

> > > well?

> > >

> > > >So come out and think with open mind and decide yourself as to

> > > > whether astrology is scientific or is being given coverup of

> > > >science due to some vested interest.

> > >

> > > ok.

> > >

> > > > I do not want to hurt the sentiments of astrologers or who

are

> in

> > > >support of astrology, but I only want to emphasise that if you

> > think

> > > >that it is a science then let us examine it and then

> > > >there will be no question of hurting, because you have not

> > > >formulated the principles.

> > >

> > > Yes correct. You should as well be equally open hearted.

> > >

> > > >But unfortunately you are standing in support of it like a

> lawyer

> > > >only due to faith (which has

> > > >been infused) and want to conclude like a judge that astrology

> is

> > a

> > > >science without knowing the

> > > >story of other side.

> > >

> > > Who are you Lawyer or a Judge?

> > >

> > > >I can understand the problem of astrologer that they will

loose

> > > >their business but if you are a

> > > >client then you must have right to know the truth or call an

> > > >astrologer in the consumer forum.

> > >

> > > If you can get any astrloger in consumer forum it will surly

help

> > > Vedic Jyotish!

> > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > At the time of formulating the astrological principles in

> > early

> > > > > > Primitive age, it was the concept that every living being

> has

> > > > > > capacity to move, whereas lifeless thing cannot move. This

> > > > religious

> > > > > > philosophy leads sages to classify all so-called planet

> (Sun,

> > > > Moon,

> > > > > > Mars etc.) as super living being (Deities).

> > >

> > > Now,I think it is just your opinion and not a statement of

fact!

> > >

> > > >>In those days only

> > > > sages

> > > > > > had social sanction to study religious scriptures. Thus

> after

> > > > > > prolonged observation of the sky they developed the skill

to

> > > > predict

> > > > > > solar and lunar eclipse, which was the result of so-called

> > > > grabbing

> > > > > > the Sun and Moon by imaginary shadow planets Rahu and

Ketu.

> > >

> > > This is again your opinion. Purpose of Rahu/Ketu is more than

> this.

> > >

> > > > > > They were also able to predict the timing of eclipse and

its

> > > > > > duration. They have devised an ingenious way to offer

> > donations

> > > > etc.

> > > > > > to get them free from the clutches of Rahu and Ketu,

which

> is

> > > > still

> > > > > > being followed.

> > >

> > > Now you have touched two different things! Finding duration of

> > > eclipse and offering donations(i.e remedy for it) is altogether

> > > different thing. Logic of each remedy can be seen if at all you

> are

> > > ready to put yourself for that.

> > >

> > > >It was also religious concept that fate of

> > > > everybody

> > > > > > is pre-decided according to their deeds. Thus in this

> > > situation,

> > > > it

> > > > > > was common wisdom as to when sages were able to predict

the

> > > fate

> > > > of

> > > > > > deities like Sun and Moon then why they could not predict

> the

> > > > fate of

> > > > > > King and so on. Thus procedure was devised to formulate

> > various

> > > > > > astrological principles on the basis of the then

knowledge

> of

> > > > sages

> > > > > > based on scriptures and their celestial observation. These

> > > > principles

> > > > > > were the key factors for deciding the fate.

> > >

> > > This is again not correct. In a way you are trying to suggest

> that

> > > since sages were able to predict grahana and that way Bhavishya

> of

> > > the Sun, they were assigned to predict about mortal beings! I

am

> > > sorry,this is not the way Jyotisha came into being. On the

other

> > > hand, there is ample scope to think that the entire Chaturvarna

> > > system and Hindu way of life revolved( and still continue to

be)

> > > around Jyotish.

> > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Procedure adopted to formulate these principles was never

> > > > percolated

> > > > > > in the Indian society due to illiteracy and hard barrier

to

> > > learn

> > > > > > such knowledge by other castes. Subsequently these

> principles

> > > were

> > > > > > spread to other civilisation and later on developed as

> Western

> > > > system.

> > >

> > > At least you agree that Western world got it from here.

> > >

> > > > > > What is happening nowadays that there are two groups. One

> > group

> > > > > > belongs to astrologers who always try to support

astrology

> due

> > > to

> > > > > > their business considerations (these astrologers always

try

> to

> > > fit

> > > > > > past event very precisely within some astrological

principle

> > > > within a

> > > > > > capsule of ved, religion, astronomy (eclipse etc.) and

faith

> > > etc.,

> > > > > > but they are unable to predict any future event.

> > >

> > > It indeed seems to be a very common!

> > >

> > > Because

> > > > astrological

> > > > > > principles lead to diverse predictions and that too

> diabolical

> > > > > > opposite to each other.

> > >

> > > This is not true. You may like to think again about it.

> > >

> > > If by chance a prediction (in fluke)

> > > may

> > > > come

> > > > > > true then they start to harp on the same prediction and

> start

> > > self

> > > > > > praising instead of applying the same socalled principle

on

> > > other

> > > > > > horoscopes to see their failure.

> > >

> > > Here Astrologers are at fault, not Astrology I suppose!

> > >

> > > >Thus astrologer can only

> > > >mislead,

> > > > > > create confusion, try to cure `planets' and so on.

> > >

> > > Yes they can but not all are alike. There are really some good

> > > astrologers.

> > >

> > > >You can find

> > > > that

> > > > > > only this is going on in every forum), whereas other

group

> > (say

> > > > > > scientist) try to raise some logical questions against

> > > >astrology.

> > >

> > > I suppose you are in both and hence finding your real position!

> > >

> > > > But

> > > > > > none of them have ever tried to investigate as to what

was

> the

> > > > level

> > > > > > of information of sages about the Universe, who developed

> > > > > > astrological principles in primitive age

> > >

> > > Primitive age? In Hindu context we are now living in

intellectual

> > > primitive age!

> > >

> > > >and what procedure was

> > > > > > adopted to formulate various principles relating to

> Lordship,

> > > > > > Friendship-enmity, Exalted-debilitated, Aspect,

Vinshottary

> > > > > > periodicity etc.

> > >

> > > If you understand you will possibly appriciate Vedic Jyotish!

> > >

> > > >If we analyse whole set of principles then

> > > > following

> > > > > > questions may be raised (basis of formulation is given in

> > > > subpara).

> > >

> > > You seem to be doing that. Its really good.

> > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 1 What procedure was adopted to allot twelve signs among

> seven

> > > > > > planets (as Mars is lord of Aries, Scorpio etc.) ?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It was based on the concept that Sun is just above the

> > > stationary

> > > > > > Earth and Moon is above the Sun and so on..........

> > >

> > > If it is your answer,then I feel it is not correct.

> > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 2 What procedure was adopted to decide that there is

enmity

> > and

> > > > > > friendship between some planets (as Sun and Saturn are

> enemy

> > of

> > > > each

> > > > > > other) ?

> > > > > > Based on the Indian myth of fight between deities and

demons

> > > over

> > > > > > nector after sea-churning...........

> > >

> > > If it is your answer,then I feel it is not correct.

> > >

> > > > > > 3 What procedure was adopted to decide various aspect

(full,

> > > > quarter

> > > > > > to full, half and quarter), (as planets have full aspect

on

> > > > seventh

> > > > > > house) ?

> > > > > > Based on the position of army in the battle

field...........

> > >

> > > If it is your answer,then I feel it is not correct.

> > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 4 What procedure was adopted to decide that planets are

> > exalted

> > > > and

> > > > > > debilitated at some degree (as Sun is exalted at 10 deg.

of

> > > Aries

> > > > > > sign) ?

> > >

> > > > > > Based on planetary situation linked with Sun, when

duration

> of

> > > the

> > > > > > day is more in comparison to night......

> > >

> > > If it is your answer,then I feel it is not correct.

> > >

> > > > > > 5 What procedure was adopted to decide that most powerful

> and

> > > hub

> > > > of

> > > > > > our solar system, Sun has 6 years vinshottary dasha

whereas

> > > Venus

> > > > (a

> > > > > > small planet) has 20 years ?

> > > > > > Based on two triangles derived after working out the

effect

> of

> > > > > > Universe on the basis of lord and exalted.......

> > >

> > > If it is your answer,then I feel it is not correct.

> > >

> > > > > > 6 What procedure was adopted to allot various

constellations

> > > > between

> > > > > > nine planets with different vinshottary dasha ?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Kratica was first constellation in Indian

> scriptures..........

> > >

> > > If it is your answer,then I feel it is not correct.

> > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 7 What procedure was adopted to decide order of days of a

> week

> > > > > > (Sunday, Monday etc.) ?

> > > > > > Based on distribution of 60 Ghati (Ghat = pitcher) in the

> > > > structure

> > > > > > of Universe where Sun is nearer and Moon is far away.....

> > >

> > > If it is your answer,then I feel it is not correct.

> > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 8 What procedure was adopted to decide fixed retrograde

> motion

> > > of

> > > > > > Rahu Ketu (3-11 minute-second per day)?

> > > > > > On the basis of recurrence of eclipse.....

> > >

> > > If it is your answer,then I feel it is not correct.

> > >

> > > > > > 9 What procedure was adopted to decide that Rahu, Ketu

are

> 180

> > > > deg.

> > > > > > apart?

> > > > > > On the basis of recurrence of eclipse...........

> > >

> > > If it is your answer,then I feel it is not correct.

> > >

> > > > > > 10 What procedure was adopted to decide timings of

eclipse ?

> > > > > > Repetition of eclipse after fixed constellation

> > month..........

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thus there may be endless questions, with a final

question

> as

> > to

> > > > > > whether present form of astrology is correct? If some one

> gave

> > > > > > answers to these questions then he will realise that

entire

> > > > > > astrological principles are totally based on wrong

concept

> of

> > > > > > Universe.

> > >

> > > You have good set of questions but possibly have not met

correct

> > > Jyotish. There are two persons who can answer all your question

> and

> > > possibly help you to change your perception about Vedic

> Astrology.

> > > One of them is Shree Sanjay Rath. Try to contact him first and

> > > request him to listen to you seriously. In case you fail with

> > Sanjay,

> > > (Sanjay refuses to yield to you. I know that he has all your

> > answers.

> > > Whether he will share his knowledge with you depends on your

good

> > > luck.) contact me I will give address of the second one.

> > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Everybody may agree that every research is based on the

then

> > > > > > knowledge. In the same way, when astrology was developed

by

> > sage

> > > > > > Parashar etc. At that time it was believed that Earth is

in

> > the

> > > > > > centre of the Universe and stationary (it is also

believed

> in

> > > all

> > > > > > religions).

> > >

> > > Where has Parashara said that earth is in the center of

universe

> > and

> > > stationary? Please,Quote the original shloka.

> > >

> > > >Beside this it was also believed (you may read any

> > > old

> > > > > > scriptures) that Sun is nearer from the Earth, whereas

Moon

> is

> > > > beyond

> > > > > > Sun. All constellations are situated in between Mercury

and

> > > Moon.

> > > > > > You may be surprised to know that all astrological

> principles

> > > are

> > > > > > actually fabricated around this concept.

> > >

> > > WHich old one are you refering here?

> > >

> > > I my-self studying

> > > > astrology

> > >

> > > Self-study of any subject is very bad. Eklavya had to pay for

it

> > > heavily.

> > >

> > > > > > since last 35 years and developed softwares to conclude

> > correct

> > > > > > prediction.

> > >

> > > Correct predictions using software??? You mean you developed

s/w

> > with

> > > AI? I will be interested in knowing the algorithm/strategy

> adopted?

> > > Please do answer this question as I know little bit of computer

> > > algorithms having done B.E in computer science.

> > >

> > > >But if it is true at one time then same combination

> > > is

> > > > > > not true in other case. It leads me to think afresh

> logically

> > > and

> > > > > > systematically over this subject and I find that Primitive

> > > concept

> > > > > > (when astrology was developed) requires full overhauling

in

> > > view

> > > > of

> > > > > > modern scientific astronomy, according to which primitive

> > > concept

> > > > of

> > > > > > Universe (basis of astrology) was totally changed.

> > >

> > > We differ in the first place as to what is to be considered as

> > > Primitive.

> > >

> > > > > > After lot of research I wrote an original book on

> > > > astrology " Jyotish -

> > > > > > Kitna sahi kitna galat " in Hindi (330 pages).

> > >

> > > WHy are you calling it as Original? Say simply a book! I think

> you

> > > should have done this excercise of writting mails on verious

> fourms

> > > as part of your research and there by should have got some

> > authentic

> > > information about Vedic Jyotish,before writting your book.

Since

> > you

> > > are doing this after your book is in market, there is ample

> chance

> > of

> > > doubting your intentions. Although, I personally feel that all

> your

> > > questions are unfeigned but you nerver know!

> > >

> > > >This book

> > > contains

> > > > the

> > > > > > detailed procedure adopted to formulate these principles

on

> > the

> > > > basis

> > > > > > of the then knowledge about the Universe, which leads our

> > sages

> > > to

> > > > > > formulate these principles. This book was also published

in

> > > > English

> > > > > > with the title " Astrology a science or myth " (450 pages).

> You

> > > can

> > > > > > realize that this is revolutionary book and will change

the

> > > face

> > > > of

> > > > > > predictive astrology in due course.

> > >

> > > May be but face lift is in domain of Saptarishis! The astrology

> > > involved in Face and Saptarishi is what sages have written.

Have

> > you

> > > ever gone for Saptarishi and their astrological relevance and

> face

> > > lift? This is where you require a teacher to unfold all this

> things

> > > for you.

> > >

> > > >If you interested to know

> > > >more

> > > > > > about the book or description of various chapters then

you

> may

> > > > send

> > > > > > email to me. The book is being marketed in USA /UK etc.

> > > > > > Refer http://www.bokklubben.no/samboweb/produkt.do?

> > > > produktID=1759836

> > > > > > <http://www.bokklubben.no/samboweb/produkt.do?

> > produktID=1759836>

> > > > > >

> > > > > > http://www.thebookplace.com/bookplace/results-asp?

AUB=sanat%

> > > > 20kumar%

> > > > > > <http://www.thebookplace.com/bookplace/results-asp?

> AUB=sanat%

> > > > 20kumar%>

> > > > > > 20jain & TAG= & CID=

> > > > > >

> > > > > > http://www.aggarwaloverseas.com/booksdetail.aspx?

> > > > > > <http://www.aggarwaloverseas.com/booksdetail.aspx?>

> > > > > > ProductID=64211 & catID=AGO010 & detail=t

> > >

> > > Marketing. So will not comment.

> > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > At that time our sages were neither aware of Uranus,

Neptune

> > > nor

> > > > they

> > > > > > were aware that solar and lunar eclipses occurred due to

> > > presence

> > > > of

> > > > > > Moon and shadow of Earth.

> > >

> > > Are you asking this or telling? i.e. Puch rahe ho ki bata rahe

> ho?

> > If

> > > is later,where is a proof? and if it is former then you are

> > > excercising your right to express your view.

> > >

> > > That's why they have developed the

> > > > concept

> > > > > > of Rahu and Ketu with retrograde motion of 3'11 " . It was

> > > > mentioned in

> > > > > > the Grahlaghav that eclipse occurred when Rahu/Ketu came

> > within

> > > 14

> > > > > > degree on Amavasya (dark night) or Puranmashi (full Moon).

> > >

> > > QUote the original shlokas in Sanskrit script and your

> understading

> > > of the shloka.

> > >

> > > >But

> > > > nobody

> > > > > > will be able to answer that why there was no lunar

eclipse

> > when

> > > > Sun,

> > > > > > Moon and Rahu were at 203.01, 23.01 and 34.43 degree

> > > respectively

> > > > on

> > > > > > 08-11-1984 (Rahu was within 11.42 degree) or when Sun,

Moon

> > and

> > > > Ketu

> > > > > > were at 319.74, 139.74 and 150.26 degree respectively on

03-

> > 03-

> > > > 1988 (

> > > > > > Ketu was within 10.52 degree). Likewise I find that Solar

> > > eclipses

> > > > > > occurred even when difference between Moon and Rahu was

more

> > > then

> > > > > > 14¢X. Sun and Moon were at 94.24 deg., whereas Rahu was

at

> > 79.04

> > > > deg.

> > > > > > on 21-07-1982 (Rahu was 15.20 deg. away). Sun and Moon

were

> at

> > > > 76.49

> > > > > > deg., whereas Rahu was at 91.93 deg. on 02-07-2000 (Rahu

was

> > > 15.14

> > > > > > deg. away).

> > >

> > > Once we read original shlokas from Grahlaghava,we will solve

this

> > > riddle as well!

> > >

> > > > > > To give a modern scientific colour to the astrology, you

> will

> > > also

> > > > > > find in many modern astrological books that eclipse

> occurred

> > at

> > > > the

> > > > > > intersection point of orbit of the Sun and Moon (though

it

> was

> > > not

> > > > > > known to our sages and Rahu Ketu were created on the

basis

> of

> > > > myth).

> > > > > > Thus it is clear that at the time of full solar eclipse,

> when

> > > Moon

> > > > > > happens to be just over the Sun than Rahu must also be

> there.

> > > But

> > > > As

> > > > > > per almanac Ketu was shown at 194 and 177 degree on 12-11-

> 1985

> > > > and 3-

> > > > > > 10-1986 (refer any almanac) respectively when there were

> full

> > > > solar

> > > > > > eclipse and position of Sun/Moon were at 206 and 166

degree

> > > > > > respectively.

> > >

> > > Are you sure about the Sun and the Moon deg?

> > >

> > > >You will agree that when there were full solar

> > > > eclipses

> > > > > > then on these dates either Rahu or Ketu must be at 206

and

> 166

> > > > degree

> > > > > > respectively, because only then full solar eclipse may

> > possible.

> > > > > > Whereas Ketu was being shown at 194 and 177 degrees in

> > almanac.

> > > > Thus

> > > > > > there was clear mistake of about 12 and 11 degrees

> > > respectively.

> > > > All

> > > > > > horoscopes are defective in this light and due to this

> > > fundamental

> > > > > > positional variation, prediction is also effected. If you

> want

> > > > then I

> > > > > > can give many more examples and very simple method of

> > detecting

> > > > them.

> > >

> > > Taht will be very good. Please do it as and when you get time.

> > >

> > > > > > I fully support that astrology (predictive) is not a

science

> > >

> > > If this is logic then I am afraid, you are jumping to

> conclusions.

> > > Moreover, why are you comparing Science and Astrology? These

are

> > two

> > > different subjects with their own merit and demerit. If you

want

> to

> > > criticise Jyotish, do it as its own subject. By comparing it

with

> > > other subject discussions go everywhere. When you try to prove

> that

> > > Jyotish is science,you possibly assuming that whatever science

is

> > the

> > > only truth. It is indeed to some extent but beauty about

science

> is

> > > that it has a attribute of being 'Nitya Nutan'. It contradicts

> its

> > > own principle over the period of time. SO whatever is truth

> > according

> > > to science may not be thruth tomorrow. But so far as it is not

> > proved

> > > untruth,we have to accept it as truth. In a way science makes

us

> to

> > > accept untruth as truth and very same truth as untruth.

> > >

> > > but

> > > > in

> > > > > > primitive age predictive astrology was a mixture of

> astronomy

> > +

> > > > > > psychology + faith. Because astronomy is a science,

> psychology

> > > > > > (recently discovered and it was not known in primitive

age)

> > > > played an

> > > > > > important role in handling a person by the astrologer due

to

> > > > immense

> > > > > > faith over astrology+astrologer hence predictive astrology

> > > > appears to

> > > > > > be correct due to combined effect of all three.

> > >

> > > WHy psychology? Usually Jyotish can solve and should only solve

> > those

> > > problems where Human efforts dont work. Out of 33 cores devatas

> > which

> > > one is most required for your current problem and in which form

> one

> > > should propitiate it and with which instruments, is what is

most

> > > important aspect of Vedic Jyotish. Future telling is just tiny

> part

> > > of that even that should be done under some conditions. Read

BPHS

> > or

> > > Prashna Marga. Follow those rules in your test conditions.

> > >

> > > >You will also

> > > > agree

> > > > > > with the above observation after going through my original

> > > > > > revolutionary research.

> > >

> > > Revolutionary resereach with out meeting correct teachers?

> > >

> > > >Because if everything is pre-decided as

> > > > was

> > > > > > contention of sages

> > >

> > > Where and who said that everything is pre-decided? Sages have

not

> > > said that. Sages have given enough freewill application in your

> > life!

> > >

> > > >then why we may take pains, why we may try

> > > to

> > > > do

> > > > > > some thing, because every thing will take place according

to

> > > pre-

> > > > > > written destiny.

> > >

> > > WHo has written and where? This is not domain of Jyotish.

Jyotish

> > is

> > > all about making the quality of life good. Some times by

knowing

> > > future sometimes by doing remedy.

> > >

> > > >Secondly, there is no question of modifying

> > > that

> > > > pre-

> > > > > > written destiny, because if we try to change only our

fate,

> > >

> > > Now look who is talking? How can you uuse a word like 'FATE'?

> > >

> > > even

> > > > then

> > > > > > all attached happening will automatically change creating

a

> > > > cascading

> > > > > > effect, which in turn will change the pre-written fate of

> > every

> > > > > > person. In another case, if destiny is not pre-written or

> say

> > > pre-

> > > > > > defined than it is not possible to detect it. Because when

> > > every

> > > > Tom,

> > > > > > Dick and Harry are changing their destiny due to worship,

> good

> > > > deed

> > > > > > etc. then destiny of every one will continue remain under

> > > change.

> > >

> > > There are many examples in our Epics where it is said that one

> can

> > > change his course of life if such and such thing is done,

Purans

> > are

> > > full of such stories. That is why there are remedial measures

in

> > > Vedic Jyotish.

> > >

> > > > You

> > > > > > will agree that astrology is totally based on mathematical

> > > > > > calculation regarding planets, whose transit is fixed and

> can

> > > > never

> > > > > > and never be altered. Now when transit or birth chart

> cannot

> > be

> > > > > > altered it means result of calculation or say prediction

is

> > also

> > > > > > fixed. Then how one may change his destiny (if it is ever

> > > > prewritten)

> > > > > > by adopting some means like offering, ring, vastu etc.

> because

> > > in

> > > > > > that case, if you like to say, then future events will be

> > > altered

> > > > but

> > > > > > how a calculation of planetary transit or linked

prediction

> > can

> > > be

> > > > > > changed, which is fixed due to birth chart or fixed

transit

> of

> > > > > > planets?

> > >

> > > You seemed to be confused here!(I may be wrong as well!) But

> truly

> > > speaking,it is not clear to me why same points are being raised

> > using

> > > different word combinition.

> > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Those who think that astrology is a science may be rest

> > assured

> > > > that

> > > > > > actually predictive astrology is not a science at all.

> > >

> > > Those who want to compare Astrology and Science,I request to

keep

> > > them separate. It may be rest assured that Vedic Astrology

makes

> > your

> > > life more comfortable than science!

> > >

> > > >Only

> > > > astronomy

> > > > > > and psychology (discovered only in last 200 years) were

used

> > > > > > unknowingly by our sages for some prediction and it

appears

> > > > correct.

> > >

> > > This is your conjucture. Is it not?

> > >

> > > > > > Hence predictive astrology is bogus and astrology is a

myth.

> > >

> > > You can keep on saying this but you dont seem to be honest with

> > > yourself.

> > >

> > > > Still if

> > > > > > you have a faith on astrology then why don't you contact

The

> > > James

> > > > > > Randi Educational Foundation who offeres a US $1000000

> prize

> > to

> > > > > > anyone who can demonstrate that astrology works.

> > >

> > > Once they learn to know how Vedic Astrlogy works, possibly they

> > will

> > > withdraw this offer.

> > >

> > > >His e-mail and

> > > > > > website is jref@ <jref%40randi.org> and

> > > > > > http://www.randi.org <http://www.randi.org> Because modern

> > > > > > technologies like computer, TV, Newspaper etc. are being

> used

> > to

> > > > > > spread this myth in the cover up of science with vested

> > business

> > > > > > interest. Hence it requires a logical approach to fight

this

> > > sort

> > > > of

> > > > > > ignorance.

> > >

> > > Yours is certainly not logical approch.

> > >

> > > My book has vital scientific information in this

> > > regard

> > > > > > and readers of the book are fully convinced that astrology

> > > > > > (predictive) is bogus, because procedure adopted to

> formulate

> > > > > > principles was neither logical nor based on correct

> > information

> > > of

> > > > > > Universe, solar system.

> > >

> > > I will surly read your book but not by paying from my pocket.

You

> > can

> > > arrange a one for me and send it to me.

> > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I will like to have your critical comments for further

> > > > interaction on

> > > > > > my email sanatkumar_jain@

> > > > > > <sanatkumar_jain%40rediffmail.com> . It would be

> better

> > > to

> > > > know

> > > > > > the roots of astrology and facts, data behind it before

> > falling

> > > in

> > > > > > the trap and come forward to join hands because of AIDS

> > > > (Astrology Is

> > > > > > Damaging Society).

> > >

> > > It is more like Another Intellectual Damaging Society(AIDS)

> > >

> > > Thanks a lot for your Time and Space.

> > >

> > > Prabodh Vekhande

> > > Jai Jai Shankar

> > > Har Har Shankar

> > >

> > > Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:31 pm

> > >

> >

>

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