Guest guest Posted December 10, 2007 Report Share Posted December 10, 2007 Dear Mr. Sanat, I will be happy, u if u begin a debate with me, I wonder why u have not replied to my mail in which i asked u one question - do u think, unavailability of library means the subject itself is not a scientific. People have fed up with ur selective replies and selective arguments. Let's entertain the members, I m just waiting for u. I m just waiting and challanging to u, i will find my points from the points that u w'd raise. regards, Lalit. Vedic Astrologyandhealing , " sanat2221 " <sanatkumar_jain wrote: > > > Respected Kiran Ji, > Namaskar, > Thanks for your msg regarding blind chart reading. > >>>>>>>>>Shall we have a series of blind chart reading contests. I > request all > to participate.<<<<<<<<<< > Yes you can go ahead with following four questions (again quoting > the para) or even you can intimate any principle or combination of > principles which you think is right. > > If principles are correct then can you just provide any foolproof > astrological principle by which you can decide about (very ordinary > questions) > > 1 Any horoscope belongs to a male or female. > 2 When he / she will be married. > 3 When he / she will be father / mother > 4 When he / she will die. > > Because answers to these questions are absolute and other predictive > answers are relative and they can be interpreted by both ways and > secondly these are the basic questions by which entire life is > governed and changed. > > Thanks > Yours > > Sanat > Sanatkumar_jain > (reader may write to me directly on my email.) > 9-12-2007 > Re: Astrology a science or myth > Posted by: " kiran.rama " kiran.rama kiran.rama > Tue Dec 4, 2007 9:54 am (PST) > Dear Sanatji, > > There are many astrologers who can predict correctly applying astro > principles to the charts. > > Shall we have a series of blind chart reading contests. I request all > to participate. > > Maybe that will convince Sanatji - > Regards > Kiran > > > > > > > > > Vedic Astrologyandhealing , " sanat2221 " > > > > <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote: > > > > > > ASTROLOGY A SCIENCE OR MYTH > > > Will you please like to ponder and instead of sticking to some > > > misconcept regarding astrology on which you have not studied in > depth > > > but you only have faith, because you have been informed like > this. So > > > come out and think with open mind and decide yourself as to > whether > > > astrology is scientific or is being given coverup of science due > to > > > some vested interest. I do not want to hurt the sentiments of > > > astrologers or who are in support of astrology, but I only want > to > > > emphasise that if you think that it is a science then let us > examine > > > it and then there will be no question of hurting, because you > have > > > not formulated the principles. But unfortunately you are standing > in > > > support of it like a lawyer only due to faith (which has been > > > infused) and want to conclude like a judge that astrology is a > > > science without knowing the story of other side. I can understand > the > > > problem of astrologer that they will loose their business but if > you > > > are a client then you must have right to know the truth or call > an > > > astrologer in the consumer forum. > > > > > > At the time of formulating the astrological principles in early > > > Primitive age, it was the concept that every living being has > > > capacity to move, whereas lifeless thing cannot move. This > religious > > > philosophy leads sages to classify all so-called planet (Sun, > Moon, > > > Mars etc.) as super living being (Deities). In those days only > sages > > > had social sanction to study religious scriptures. Thus after > > > prolonged observation of the sky they developed the skill to > predict > > > solar and lunar eclipse, which was the result of so-called > grabbing > > > the Sun and Moon by imaginary shadow planets Rahu and Ketu. > > > They were also able to predict the timing of eclipse and its > > > duration. They have devised an ingenious way to offer donations > etc. > > > to get them free from the clutches of Rahu and Ketu, which is > still > > > being followed. It was also religious concept that fate of > everybody > > > is pre-decided according to their deeds. Thus in this situation, > it > > > was common wisdom as to when sages were able to predict the fate > of > > > deities like Sun and Moon then why they could not predict the > fate of > > > King and so on. Thus procedure was devised to formulate various > > > astrological principles on the basis of the then knowledge of > sages > > > based on scriptures and their celestial observation. These > principles > > > were the key factors for deciding the fate. > > > > > > Procedure adopted to formulate these principles was never > percolated > > > in the Indian society due to illiteracy and hard barrier to learn > > > such knowledge by other castes. Subsequently these principles > were > > > spread to other civilisation and later on developed as Western > system. > > > What is happening nowadays that there are two groups. One group > > > belongs to astrologers who always try to support astrology due to > > > their business considerations (these astrologers always try to > fit > > > past event very precisely within some astrological principle > within a > > > capsule of ved, religion, astronomy (eclipse etc.) and faith > etc., > > > but they are unable to predict any future event. Because > astrological > > > principles lead to diverse predictions and that too diabolical > > > opposite to each other. If by chance a prediction (in fluke) may > come > > > true then they start to harp on the same prediction and start > self > > > praising instead of applying the same socalled principle on other > > > horoscopes to see their failure. Thus astrologer can only > mislead, > > > create confusion, try to cure `planets' and so on. You can find > that > > > only this is going on in every forum), whereas other group (say > > > scientist) try to raise some logical questions against astrology. > But > > > none of them have ever tried to investigate as to what was the > level > > > of information of sages about the Universe, who developed > > > astrological principles in primitive age and what procedure was > > > adopted to formulate various principles relating to Lordship, > > > Friendship-enmity, Exalted-debilitated, Aspect, Vinshottary > > > periodicity etc. If we analyse whole set of principles then > following > > > questions may be raised (basis of formulation is given in > subpara). > > > > > > 1 What procedure was adopted to allot twelve signs among seven > > > planets (as Mars is lord of Aries, Scorpio etc.) ? > > > > > > It was based on the concept that Sun is just above the stationary > > > Earth and Moon is above the Sun and so on………. > > > > > > 2 What procedure was adopted to decide that there is enmity and > > > friendship between some planets (as Sun and Saturn are enemy of > each > > > other) ? > > > Based on the Indian myth of fight between deities and demons over > > > nector after sea-churning……….. > > > 3 What procedure was adopted to decide various aspect (full, > quarter > > > to full, half and quarter), (as planets have full aspect on > seventh > > > house) ? > > > Based on the position of army in the battle field……….. > > > > > > 4 What procedure was adopted to decide that planets are exalted > and > > > debilitated at some degree (as Sun is exalted at 10 deg. of Aries > > > sign) ? > > > Based on planetary situation linked with Sun, when duration of > the > > > day is more in comparison to night…… > > > 5 What procedure was adopted to decide that most powerful and hub > of > > > our solar system, Sun has 6 years vinshottary dasha whereas Venus > (a > > > small planet) has 20 years ? > > > Based on two triangles derived after working out the effect of > > > Universe on the basis of lord and exalted……. > > > 6 What procedure was adopted to allot various constellations > between > > > nine planets with different vinshottary dasha ? > > > > > > Kratica was first constellation in Indian scriptures………. > > > > > > 7 What procedure was adopted to decide order of days of a week > > > (Sunday, Monday etc.) ? > > > Based on distribution of 60 Ghati (Ghat = pitcher) in the > structure > > > of Universe where Sun is nearer and Moon is far away….. > > > > > > 8 What procedure was adopted to decide fixed retrograde motion of > > > Rahu Ketu (3-11 minute-second per day)? > > > On the basis of recurrence of eclipse….. > > > 9 What procedure was adopted to decide that Rahu, Ketu are 180 > deg. > > > apart? > > > On the basis of recurrence of eclipse……….. > > > 10 What procedure was adopted to decide timings of eclipse ? > > > Repetition of eclipse after fixed constellation month………. > > > > > > Thus there may be endless questions, with a final question as to > > > whether present form of astrology is correct? If some one gave > > > answers to these questions then he will realise that entire > > > astrological principles are totally based on wrong concept of > > > Universe. > > > > > > Everybody may agree that every research is based on the then > > > knowledge. In the same way, when astrology was developed by sage > > > Parashar etc. At that time it was believed that Earth is in the > > > centre of the Universe and stationary (it is also believed in all > > > religions). Beside this it was also believed (you may read any > old > > > scriptures) that Sun is nearer from the Earth, whereas Moon is > beyond > > > Sun. All constellations are situated in between Mercury and Moon. > > > You may be surprised to know that all astrological principles are > > > actually fabricated around this concept. I my-self studying > astrology > > > since last 35 years and developed softwares to conclude correct > > > prediction. But if it is true at one time then same combination > is > > > not true in other case. It leads me to think afresh logically and > > > systematically over this subject and I find that Primitive > concept > > > (when astrology was developed) requires full overhauling in view > of > > > modern scientific astronomy, according to which primitive concept > of > > > Universe (basis of astrology) was totally changed. > > > After lot of research I wrote an original book on > astrology " Jyotish - > > > Kitna sahi kitna galat " in Hindi (330 pages). This book contains > the > > > detailed procedure adopted to formulate these principles on the > basis > > > of the then knowledge about the Universe, which leads our sages > to > > > formulate these principles. This book was also published in > English > > > with the title " Astrology a science or myth " (450 pages). You can > > > realize that this is revolutionary book and will change the face > of > > > predictive astrology in due course. If you interested to know > more > > > about the book or description of various chapters then you may > send > > > email to me. The book is being marketed in USA /UK etc. > > > Refer http://www.bokklubben.no/samboweb/produkt.do? > produktID=1759836 > > > > > > http://www.thebookplace.com/bookplace/results-asp?AUB=sanat% > 20kumar% > > > 20jain & TAG= & CID= > > > > > > http://www.aggarwaloverseas.com/booksdetail.aspx? > > > ProductID=64211 & catID=AGO010 & detail=t > > > > > > At that time our sages were neither aware of Uranus, Neptune nor > they > > > were aware that solar and lunar eclipses occurred due to presence > of > > > Moon and shadow of Earth. That's why they have developed the > concept > > > of Rahu and Ketu with retrograde motion of 3'11 " . It was > mentioned in > > > the Grahlaghav that eclipse occurred when Rahu/Ketu came within > 14 > > > degree on Amavasya (dark night) or Puranmashi (full Moon). But > nobody > > > will be able to answer that why there was no lunar eclipse when > Sun, > > > Moon and Rahu were at 203.01, 23.01 and 34.43 degree respectively > on > > > 08-11-1984 (Rahu was within 11.42 degree) or when Sun, Moon and > Ketu > > > were at 319.74, 139.74 and 150.26 degree respectively on 03-03- > 1988 ( > > > Ketu was within 10.52 degree). Likewise I find that Solar > eclipses > > > occurred even when difference between Moon and Rahu was more then > > > 14°. Sun and Moon were at 94.24 deg., whereas Rahu was at 79.04 > deg. > > > on 21-07-1982 (Rahu was 15.20 deg. away). Sun and Moon were at > 76.49 > > > deg., whereas Rahu was at 91.93 deg. on 02-07-2000 (Rahu was > 15.14 > > > deg. away). > > > To give a modern scientific colour to the astrology, you will > also > > > find in many modern astrological books that eclipse occurred at > the > > > intersection point of orbit of the Sun and Moon (though it was > not > > > known to our sages and Rahu Ketu were created on the basis of > myth). > > > Thus it is clear that at the time of full solar eclipse, when > Moon > > > happens to be just over the Sun than Rahu must also be there. But > As > > > per almanac Ketu was shown at 194 and 177 degree on 12-11-1985 > and 3- > > > 10-1986 (refer any almanac) respectively when there were full > solar > > > eclipse and position of Sun/Moon were at 206 and 166 degree > > > respectively. You will agree that when there were full solar > eclipses > > > then on these dates either Rahu or Ketu must be at 206 and 166 > degree > > > respectively, because only then full solar eclipse may possible. > > > Whereas Ketu was being shown at 194 and 177 degrees in almanac. > Thus > > > there was clear mistake of about 12 and 11 degrees respectively. > All > > > horoscopes are defective in this light and due to this > fundamental > > > positional variation, prediction is also effected. If you want > then I > > > can give many more examples and very simple method of detecting > them. > > > I fully support that astrology (predictive) is not a science but > in > > > primitive age predictive astrology was a mixture of astronomy + > > > psychology + faith. Because astronomy is a science, psychology > > > (recently discovered and it was not known in primitive age) > played an > > > important role in handling a person by the astrologer due to > immense > > > faith over astrology+astrologer hence predictive astrology > appears to > > > be correct due to combined effect of all three. You will also > agree > > > with the above observation after going through my original > > > revolutionary research. Because if everything is pre-decided as > was > > > contention of sages then why we may take pains, why we may try to > do > > > some thing, because every thing will take place according to pre- > > > written destiny. Secondly, there is no question of modifying that > pre- > > > written destiny, because if we try to change only our fate, even > then > > > all attached happening will automatically change creating a > cascading > > > effect, which in turn will change the pre-written fate of every > > > person. In another case, if destiny is not pre-written or say pre- > > > defined than it is not possible to detect it. Because when every > Tom, > > > Dick and Harry are changing their destiny due to worship, good > deed > > > etc. then destiny of every one will continue remain under change. > You > > > will agree that astrology is totally based on mathematical > > > calculation regarding planets, whose transit is fixed and can > never > > > and never be altered. Now when transit or birth chart cannot be > > > altered it means result of calculation or say prediction is also > > > fixed. Then how one may change his destiny (if it is ever > prewritten) > > > by adopting some means like offering, ring, vastu etc. because in > > > that case, if you like to say, then future events will be altered > but > > > how a calculation of planetary transit or linked prediction can > be > > > changed, which is fixed due to birth chart or fixed transit of > > > planets? > > > > > > Those who think that astrology is a science may be rest assured > that > > > actually predictive astrology is not a science at all. Only > astronomy > > > and psychology (discovered only in last 200 years) were used > > > unknowingly by our sages for some prediction and it appears > correct. > > > Hence predictive astrology is bogus and astrology is a myth. > Still if > > > you have a faith on astrology then why don't you contact The > James > > > Randi Educational Foundation who offeres a US $1000000 prize to > > > anyone who can demonstrate that astrology works. His e-mail and > > > website is jref@ and http://www.randi.org Because modern > > > technologies like computer, TV, Newspaper etc. are being used to > > > spread this myth in the cover up of science with vested business > > > interest. Hence it requires a logical approach to fight this sort > of > > > ignorance. My book has vital scientific information in this > regard > > > and readers of the book are fully convinced that astrology > > > (predictive) is bogus, because procedure adopted to formulate > > > principles was neither logical nor based on correct information > of > > > Universe, solar system. > > > > > > I will like to have your critical comments for further > interaction on > > > my email sanatkumar_jain@ . It would be better to know > > > the roots of astrology and facts, data behind it before falling > in > > > the trap and come forward to join hands because of AIDS > (Astrology Is > > > Damaging Society). > > > Sanat Kumar Jain > > > Gwalior > > > > > > Reader may directly write to me on my email instead of creating > > > problems to moderator > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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