Exceptions to 8'th House- Shri Chandrasekarji

[Guest guest]

Hare Rama krsnaHraum Namah AdityayaRespected Chandrasekhar ji,Namaskar.I am sorry for not replying earlier,I was busy with Vaikuntha Ekadesi. A very long mail and I request you to bear with me.My balance dasha at birth was Saturn Mahadasha. The Ketu AD of that dasha, 1962/03/29 - 1963/04/19,(PD of Budha)I was afflicted with small pox which wiped out the entire children's ward in the Quarantine Hospital, except me.In AD of Shukra 1963/04/19-1966/06/21, I excelled at school as from my class-room I heard and learnt the lessons of the adjacent class as well(there was no partition between the classes), one class higher and stood first in that examination too as my teachers wanted to test if I could do the next higher grade. I got a double promotion.In the Guru AD 1972/12/18 - 1975/06/30, I did very well at school, stood first in school in SSC, got a gold medal, and one for essay writing among school students in Andhra pradesh. I was in Hyderabad then.Budha MD, Mangala AD,Sani PD and the beginning of Budha sookshma AD 1984/05/09(10.20 P.M) I got married.During Budha MD and Sani AD, 1989/10/23 - 1992/06/30, made a lot of money through trading in shares, bought my first flat.I was away from my husband and children as they had relocated to Chennai (my place of birth) and I could not as my request for transfer did not materialise. I was also on leave for

about 7 months on and off, had lot of troubles professionally. I joined my family at the fag end of the dasa as despite getting transferred I was not relieved by my boss.Ketu MD and Sani AD- 1997/05/23 - 1998/07/03, my children again lived away for about an year( this time voluntarily- admitted them to a residential school), was very sick and almost had a surgery( hysterectomy). During( Rahu PAD) of this Sani AD was admitted to ICU(Cardiology) for palpitations, 170-200 heart beats per minute. Was again on leave for 6 months. Had a terrible time at work, extreme pressure from my immediate boss, Manager of my branch(I was his deputy). There was a lot of mud-slinging, complaints from him at the annual conference as he attributed his failure to me. He was rebuked and admonished in the meeting for being authoritative, bad mouthing. This happened in the beginning of AD. I did not report back and I was called by the top man at HR to

report to him directly at his office and offered to place me at any branch of my choice- I worked with him. I was given an independent charge of a branch that was defrauded by a Manager and some of the clients. I had to totally revamp the system(none were in place), clean up the mess and bring back the branch to normalcy( Budha AD, Rahu PD).During Sani PD on 1999/05/03,the day it started I was given another branch on the brink of closure, which I turned into a model branch and a profit centre.Shukra MD, AD and Sani PD 2001/08/21 -2002/02/27 was the most turbulent times when I had to weather frauds( 13th October) perpetrated by my subordinates in collusion with some clients. I had to deal with legal system, Police and CBIbut recovered the defrauded money(Dec 27 - Jan 7) for the bank. It took its toll and my health deteriorated. I resigned in Nov 2004.Shukra MD, Chandra AD, Shukra/Sani(Sookshma) my eldest son left home after

altercation with his father and has still not returned and is living independently( though both have reconciled).Shukra MD, Rahu AD, Sani PD(18/9/2007) I had a surgical procedure to correct the palpitations which was successful with the Grace of the Divine Mother.Chandrasekhar ji, I would think the results are mixed but veering on to the not so positive. But it involved both the grahas posited in 8th, their lord ships and also Rahu who aspects (5th) Makara from AL. The A5 also falls in Makara.As my whole Chart is somehow tangled in 4th 7th 8th 9th 10th houses with all the grahas working together so beautifully together, I marvel at the Divine Mother's leela (my own past karma)in creating the right circumstances for fructification. I also believe in self-will and constant presence of Divine Grace has helped me tide over extremely difficult times. This interplay of grahas woven so intricately has made my life one full of

learning and gave me an yearning to learn Jyotish, just so I can comprehend things otherwise difficult to.These are observations based on events during Sani MD, AD PD, PAD and SAD and some leading to them.I have churned the chart to the best of my abilities but sometimes tend to be subjective and need inputs from a learned Gurulike you.Kind regardsNaliniChandrashekhar <sharma.chandrashekharVedic Astrologyandhealing Sent: Thursday, 20 December, 2007 8:57:04 AMRe: [Vedic Astrologyandhealing] Re: Exceptions to 8'th House- lalit ji

 

 

Dear Nalini,

 

Let us know how the first half of your Saturn dasha/antar or Pratyantar

fared and we can come to some conclusion. This is so because your

Saturn dasha might not even run. So you could check effects of its

Antar or Pratyantar within the dashas already run. These should be good

periods if such a lord is functional benefic and not so if it is not. I

am saying the first half as the 8th lordship results will come through

at that time.

 

Chandrashekhar.

 

 

 

nalini swamy wrote:

 

 

Hare Rama Krsna

Hrau Namah Adityaya

 

Dear Lalit ji,

Namaskar.

 

Take my chart for example, my 8th lord is Sani Maharaj who is also the

9th lord. The 8th bhava has the 5 and 12 th lord, 6th and 11th

lord(exalted) .

BTW bhagyasthana is Kumbha occupied by Surya(uttamamsa) .

I have been always given two versions of it, one -bhagyasthana was

afflicted and another not.

For premise we could even leave the tenancy of the 9th house and focus

on the lordship alone.

I would love inputs from Gurus for learning..

I also understand it is a piecemeal observation for academic study, not

taking into account other factors.

Regards

Nalini

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-----

Original Message ----

litsol <litsol >

Vedic Astrologyandhe aling@ s.com

Wednesday, 19 December, 2007 5:58:21 PM

[Vedic Astrologyandh ealing] Re: Exceptions to 8'th House

 

 

Dear Prabodh Ji,

 

Let's check it with the help of couple of horoscopes. That will be a

great help to all of us from our Gurus like u.

 

regards,

Lalit.

 

Vedic Astrologyandhe

aling@ s.com, "Prabodh Vekhande"

<amolmandar@ ...> wrote:

>

> Chandrashekhar ji

>

> First it says

>

> "Bhagyavyayadhiptye na randresho na shubhaprada"

>

> Lord of the 8th is not auspicious, being 12th house lord to 9th

> house.

> then it goes on

>

> "lagnatrikonapavash at sa eva shubhado mataH"

>

> But if it(8th lord) is trikonesh as well,then it will become

benefic.

>

>

> It is in Choukhanba Sanskrit Sansthan BPHS by Devashandra Za.

Atleast

> in this edition,we dont get a condition of 8th lord placement.

Which

> one to read and follow?

>

> Thanks a lot for your Time and Space.

>

> Prabodh Vekhande

> Jai Jai Shankar

> Har Har Shankar

>

>

>

> Vedic Astrologyandhe

aling@ s.com, Chandrashekhar

> <sharma.chandrashek har@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Prabodh,

> >

> > Read what Parashara says carefully, again. He says that only

when

> such a

> > graha is lagnesha and is placed in Lagna or the 8th it is not

to

be

> > considered ashubha. He does not say about its being shubha

only

by

> being

> > the co-lord of the 9th or trine to it. I am pasting the

shloka,

> with its

> > approximate translation (as much is lost in English

translation)

> for

> > your ready reference.

> >

> > ÉaGyVyaixpTyen rNØezae n zuÉàd>,

> >

> > bhägyavyädhipatyena randhreço na çubhapradaù |

> >

> > s @v zuÉsNxata l¶axIzae=ip cet! Svym!.9.

> >

> > sa eva çubhasandhätä lagnädhéço'pi cet svayam ||9||

> >

> >

> >

> > _Lord of the 8^th is not auspicious, being 12^th house lord

to

9^th

> > house. However if he is also Lord of lagna and occupies Lagna

or

> 8^th

> > house he gives benefic results._

> >

> >

> > Of course if you are referring to any other shloka, please

let me

> know

> > which shloka you are referring to.

> >

> > Take care,

> > Chandrashekhar.

> >

> > Prabodh Vekhande wrote:

> > >

> > > Chandrashekhar ji Namaste

> > >

> > > As per Parashara, 8th lord if as well be trine lord

should be

> > > considerd as Shubha. As per Parashara, 8th house is

ashubha

since

> it

> > > is 12th to 9th the bhagya. So when 8th lord is colord of

9th or

> trine

> > > to it, it does not affect badly to bhgaya and hence

should be

> treated

> > > as Shubha.

> > >

> > > Thanks a lot for your Time and Space.

> > >

> > > Prabodh Vekhande

> > > Jai Jai Shankar

> > > Har Har Shankar

> > >

> > > Vedic Astrologyandhe

aling@ s.com

> > > <vedicastrol ogyandhealing% 40.

com>,

> Chandrashekhar

> > > <sharma.chandrashek har@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Lalit,

> > > >

> > > > They are yet not treated as functional benefics,

for dasha

> > > analysis. The

> > > > results are mixed as you rightly deduce. generally

if the

graha

> > > owns a

> > > > good house and another is the 6th or the 8th it is

not

> considered a

> > > > functional benefic.

> > > >

> > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > >

> > > > litsol wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Group/Elders,

> > > > >

> > > > > Pls. correct/enhance following , if required -

> > > > >

> > > > > a) If one and same planet is lord of 1st and

8'th , eg -

Mars

> for

> > > > > Aries Asc and Venus for Libra Asc, is not

considered bad.

> > > > >

> > > > > b) If one and same planet is lord of 5'th

*and* 8'th eg -

Jup

> > > for

> > > > > Leo Asc and Merc for Aquar Asc and placed in

5'th *or *8'th

> not

> > > > > considered bad.

> > > > >

> > > > > c) If on and same planet is lord of 8'th and

9'th eg - Sat

for

> > > Gemini

> > > > > Asc and placed in 9'th is not bad.

> > > > >

> > > > > My View : Though not bad, but should not be

fully good also,

> > > mixed

> > > > > results we should derive.

> > > > >

> > > > > I will be posting exceptions to other houeses

also.

> > > > >

> > > > > regards,

> > > > > Lalit.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger .

 

 

Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.

[Guest guest]

Dear Nalini,

 

It seems you are using something other than 360 days Savana year

definition for your dasha calculations so the dashas are off by a few

months.  having said that it appears that Saturn dashas were not very

shubha, generally. Transits of planets during the good results also

tend to explain some good periods too. But most importantly, Rahu-Shani

connected with health problems is a very clear indicator of how

Shani behaves for Mithuna lagna.

 

There is no doubt that depending on the views one holds, the results

could always be interpreted to suit one's pet theory. Please also

calculate according to the 360 Savana day parameter and let me know

what you think of Shani periods.

 

You do have a malayoga, besides a reduced Hamsa yoga, which you have

apparently missed out on while looking at your chart. That Shani being

exalted in Navamsha is also capable of giving results somewhat similar

to Shasha yoga also needs to be understood.

 

Venus the 5th lord in the 8th gave you the liking to delve deep into

ancient sciences and with Saturn and Jupiter together, I am sure you

are more comfortable with Dharma without external show.

 

Take care,

Chandrashekhar.

nalini swamy wrote:

 

 

 

 Hare Rama krsna

Hraum Namah Adityaya

 

Respected Chandrasekhar ji,

 

Namaskar.

I am sorry for not replying earlier,I was busy with Vaikuntha Ekadesi.

A very long mail and I request you to bear with me.

 

My balance dasha at birth was Saturn Mahadasha. The Ketu AD of that

dasha, 1962/03/29 - 1963/04/19,(PD of Budha)I was afflicted with

small pox which wiped out the entire children's ward in the Quarantine

Hospital, except me.

 

In AD of Shukra 1963/04/19-1966/06/21,

I excelled at school as from my class-room I heard and learnt the

lessons of the adjacent class as well(there was no partition between

the classes), one class higher and stood first in that examination too

as my teachers wanted to test if I could do the next higher grade. I

got a double promotion.

 

In the Guru AD 1972/12/18 - 1975/06/30, I did very well at school,

stood first in school in SSC, got a gold medal, and one for essay

writing among school students in Andhra pradesh. I was in Hyderabad

then.

 

Budha MD, Mangala AD,Sani PD and the beginning of Budha sookshma AD

1984/05/09(10.20 P.M) I got married.

 

During Budha MD and Sani AD, 1989/10/23 - 1992/06/30, made a lot of

money through trading in shares, bought my first  flat.

I was away from my husband and children as they had relocated to

Chennai (my place of birth) and I could not as my request for transfer

did not materialise. I was also on leave for about 7 months on and off,

had lot of troubles professionally. I joined my family at the fag end

of the dasa as despite getting transferred I was not relieved by my

boss.

 

Ketu MD and Sani AD- 1997/05/23 - 1998/07/03, my children again lived

away  for about an year( this time voluntarily- admitted them to a

residential school), was very sick and almost had a surgery(

hysterectomy).

 

During( Rahu PAD) of this Sani AD was admitted to ICU(Cardiology) for

palpitations, 170-200 heart beats per minute. Was again on leave for 6

months. Had a terrible time at work, extreme pressure from my immediate

boss, Manager of my branch(I was his deputy). There was a lot of

mud-slinging, complaints from him at the annual conference as he

attributed his failure to me. He was rebuked and admonished in the

meeting for being authoritative, bad mouthing. This happened in the

beginning of AD. I did not report back and I was called by the top man

at HR to report to him directly at his office and offered to place me

at any branch of my choice- I worked with him. I was given an

independent charge of a branch that was defrauded by a Manager and some

of the clients. I had to totally revamp the system(none were in place),

clean up the mess and bring back the branch to normalcy( Budha AD, Rahu

PD).

 

During Sani PD on 1999/05/03,the day it started I was given another

branch on the brink of closure, which I turned into a model branch and

a profit centre.

 

Shukra MD, AD and Sani PD 2001/08/21 -2002/02/27 was the most turbulent

times when I had to weather frauds( 13th October) perpetrated by my

subordinates in collusion with some clients. I had to deal with legal

system, Police and CBI

but recovered the defrauded money(Dec 27 - Jan 7) for the bank. It took

its toll and my health deteriorated. I resigned in Nov 2004.

 

Shukra MD, Chandra AD, Shukra/Sani(Sookshma) my eldest son left

home after altercation with his father and has still not returned and

is living independently( though both have reconciled).

 

Shukra MD, Rahu AD, Sani PD(18/9/2007)  I had a surgical procedure to

correct the palpitations which was successful with the Grace of the

Divine Mother.

 

Chandrasekhar ji, I would think the results are mixed but veering on to

the not so positive. But it involved both the grahas posited in 8th,

their lord ships and also Rahu who aspects (5th) Makara from AL. The A5

also falls in Makara.

 

As my whole Chart is somehow tangled in 4th 7th 8th 9th 10th houses

with all the grahas working together so beautifully together, I marvel

at the Divine Mother's leela (my own past karma)in creating the right

circumstances for fructification. I also believe in self-will and

constant presence of Divine Grace has helped me tide over extremely

difficult times. This interplay of grahas woven so intricately has made

my life one full of learning and gave me an yearning to learn Jyotish,

just so I can comprehend things otherwise difficult to.

These are observations based on events during Sani MD, AD PD, PAD and

SAD and some leading to them.

I have churned the chart to the best of my abilities but sometimes tend

to be subjective and need inputs from a learned Guru

like you.

 

Kind regards

Nalini

 

-----

Original Message ----

Chandrashekhar <sharma.chandrashekhar >

Vedic Astrologyandhealing

Thursday, 20 December, 2007 8:57:04 AM

Re: [Vedic Astrologyandhealing] Re: Exceptions to 8'th

House- lalit ji

 

 

Dear Nalini,

 

Let us know how the first half of your Saturn dasha/antar or Pratyantar

fared and we can come to some conclusion. This is so because your

Saturn dasha might not even run. So you could check effects of its

Antar or Pratyantar within the dashas already run. These should be good

periods if such a lord is functional benefic and not so if it is not. I

am saying the first half as the 8th lordship results will come through

at that time.

 

Chandrashekhar.

 

 

 

nalini swamy wrote:

 

 

 

Hare Rama Krsna

Hrau Namah Adityaya

 

Dear Lalit ji,

Namaskar.

 

Take my chart for example, my 8th lord is Sani Maharaj who is also the

9th lord. The 8th bhava has the 5 and 12 th lord, 6th and 11th

lord(exalted) .

BTW bhagyasthana is Kumbha occupied by Surya(uttamamsa) .

I have been always given two versions of it, one -bhagyasthana was

afflicted and another not.

For premise we could even leave the tenancy of the 9th house and focus

on the lordship alone.

I would love inputs from Gurus for learning..

I also understand it is a piecemeal observation for academic study, not

taking into account other factors.

Regards

Nalini

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-----

Original Message ----

litsol <litsol >

Vedic Astrologyandhe aling@ s.com

Wednesday, 19 December, 2007 5:58:21 PM

[Vedic Astrologyandh ealing] Re: Exceptions to 8'th House

 

 

Dear Prabodh Ji,

 

Let's check it with the help of couple of horoscopes. That will be a

great help to all of us from our Gurus like u.

 

regards,

Lalit.

 

Vedic Astrologyandhe

aling@ s.com, "Prabodh Vekhande"

<amolmandar@ ...> wrote:

>

> Chandrashekhar ji

>

> First it says

>

> "Bhagyavyayadhiptye na randresho na shubhaprada"

>

> Lord of the 8th is not auspicious, being 12th house lord to 9th

> house.

> then it goes on

>

> "lagnatrikonapavash at sa eva shubhado mataH"

>

> But if it(8th lord) is trikonesh as well,then it will become

benefic.

>

>

> It is in Choukhanba Sanskrit Sansthan BPHS by Devashandra Za.

Atleast

> in this edition,we dont get a condition of 8th lord placement.

Which

> one to read and follow?

>

> Thanks a lot for your Time and Space.

>

> Prabodh Vekhande

> Jai Jai Shankar

> Har Har Shankar

>

>

>

> Vedic Astrologyandhe

aling@ s.com, Chandrashekhar

> <sharma.chandrashek har@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Prabodh,

> >

> > Read what Parashara says carefully, again. He says that only

when

> such a

> > graha is lagnesha and is placed in Lagna or the 8th it is not

to

be

> > considered ashubha. He does not say about its being shubha

only

by

> being

> > the co-lord of the 9th or trine to it. I am pasting the

shloka,

> with its

> > approximate translation (as much is lost in English

translation)

> for

> > your ready reference.

> >

> > ÉaGyVyaixpTyen rNØezae n zuÉàd>,

> >

> > bhägyavyädhipatyena randhreço na çubhapradaù |

> >

> > s @v zuÉsNxata l¶axIzae=ip cet! Svym!.9.

> >

> > sa eva çubhasandhätä lagnädhéço'pi cet svayam ||9||

> >

> >

> >

> > _Lord of the 8^th is not auspicious, being 12^th house lord

to

9^th

> > house. However if he is also Lord of lagna and occupies Lagna

or

> 8^th

> > house he gives benefic results._

> >

> >

> > Of course if you are referring to any other shloka, please

let me

> know

> > which shloka you are referring to.

> >

> > Take care,

> > Chandrashekhar.

> >

> > Prabodh Vekhande wrote:

> > >

> > > Chandrashekhar ji Namaste

> > >

> > > As per Parashara, 8th lord if as well be trine lord

should be

> > > considerd as Shubha. As per Parashara, 8th house is

ashubha

since

> it

> > > is 12th to 9th the bhagya. So when 8th lord is colord of

9th or

> trine

> > > to it, it does not affect badly to bhgaya and hence

should be

> treated

> > > as Shubha.

> > >

> > > Thanks a lot for your Time and Space.

> > >

> > > Prabodh Vekhande

> > > Jai Jai Shankar

> > > Har Har Shankar

> > >

> > > Vedic Astrologyandhe

aling@ s.com

> > > <vedicastrol

ogyandhealing% 40.

com>,

> Chandrashekhar

> > > <sharma.chandrashek har@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Lalit,

> > > >

> > > > They are yet not treated as functional benefics,

for dasha

> > > analysis. The

> > > > results are mixed as you rightly deduce. generally

if the

graha

> > > owns a

> > > > good house and another is the 6th or the 8th it is

not

> considered a

> > > > functional benefic.

> > > >

> > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > >

> > > > litsol wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Group/Elders,

> > > > >

> > > > > Pls. correct/enhance following , if required -

> > > > >

> > > > > a) If one and same planet is lord of 1st and

8'th , eg -

Mars

> for

> > > > > Aries Asc and Venus for Libra Asc, is not

considered bad.

> > > > >

> > > > > b) If one and same planet is lord of 5'th

*and* 8'th eg -

Jup

> > > for

> > > > > Leo Asc and Merc for Aquar Asc and placed in

5'th *or *8'th

> not

> > > > > considered bad.

> > > > >

> > > > > c) If on and same planet is lord of 8'th and

9'th eg - Sat

for

> > > Gemini

> > > > > Asc and placed in 9'th is not bad.

> > > > >

> > > > > My View : Though not bad, but should not be

fully good also,

> > > mixed

> > > > > results we should derive.

> > > > >

> > > > > I will be posting exceptions to other houeses

also.

> > > > >

> > > > > regards,

> > > > > Lalit.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.

[Guest guest]

Hare Rama KrsnaHraum Namah AdityayRespected Chandrasekhar ji,NamaskarThank you for clearing 'unseen cobwebs'.I did not realise that I was not using the 360 days savana year. I dont recall changing it, however your observations are quite valid. I do think Sani Maharaj is not a functional benefic for my chart though he is also the 9th lord and I do believe that 'bhagya' is afflicted. Your observations further validated my belief.I have replied as under,Kind regardsNalini Chandrashekhar <sharma.chandrashekharVedic Astrologyandhealing Sent: Saturday, 22 December, 2007 9:11:27 AMRe: [Vedic Astrologyandhealing] Re: Exceptions to 8'th House- Shri Chandrasekarji

 

 

Dear Nalini,

 

It seems you are using something other than 360 days Savana year

definition for your dasha calculations so the dashas are off by a few

months. having said that it appears that Saturn dashas were not very

shubha, generally. Transits of planets during the good results also

tend to explain some good periods too. But most importantly, Rahu-Shani

connected with health problems is a very clear indicator of how

Shani behaves for Mithuna lagna.

I agree with you entirely. Having Roga adishtana in the 8th Rahu's aspect , (neecha lagnadipathi, even assuming having attained neechabhanga))also has given rise to health problems, immune related , not diagnosed in time. There is no doubt that depending on the views one holds, the results

could always be interpreted to suit one's pet theory. Please also

calculate according to the 360 Savana day parameter and let me know

what you think of Shani periods.As I said earlier, I understand your stand on pet theories, you could always justify an event after taking place, but I used it to advance my learning. According to the parameter I would think that Shani Maharaj is not entirely Shubha for me.

You do have a malayoga, besides a reduced Hamsa yoga, which you have

apparently missed out on while looking at your chart. That Shani being

exalted in Navamsha is also capable of giving results somewhat similar

to Shasha yoga also needs to be understood.I have not discussed them as I have limited myself to 8th and 9th lord, houses.. Reduced Hamsa mahapurusha yoga do you think because of yuti of Shani Maharaj and Guru in his Moolatrikona? or because of his lordship of 8th house? By malayoga do you mean Kalamrita yoga? I have also not taken into the fact of the yuti of 12th and 6th in the 8th and VRY as some observe the VRY as being defunct due to exalted 6th lord, can I have your opinion. But I think it exists as there has always been success after lot of pressure or someone's losses( though I would prefer the former as building over someone's loss is anathema to me, but it has been a fact).

Venus the 5th lord in the 8th gave you the liking to delve deep into

ancient sciences and with Saturn and Jupiter together, I am sure you

are more comfortable with Dharma without external show.Shukra I believe has also given me inordinate pleasure in aquiring knowledge about ancient literature- Greek , Roman and Egyptian and of course our own. I would think Dharma is so ingrained into me that I dont like or feel the necessity to toy with the external trappings, pomp, religiousity, rituals etc, thanks to my biological mother and the Universal Mother.Take care,

Chandrashekhar.

nalini swamy wrote:

 

 

 

Hare Rama krsna

Hraum Namah Adityaya

 

Respected Chandrasekhar ji,

 

Namaskar.

I am sorry for not replying earlier,I was busy with Vaikuntha Ekadesi.

A very long mail and I request you to bear with me.

 

My balance dasha at birth was Saturn Mahadasha. The Ketu AD of that

dasha, 1962/03/29 - 1963/04/19,( PD of Budha)I was afflicted with

small pox which wiped out the entire children's ward in the Quarantine

Hospital, except me.

 

In AD of Shukra 1963/04/19-1966/06/21,

I excelled at school as from my class-room I heard and learnt the

lessons of the adjacent class as well(there was no partition between

the classes), one class higher and stood first in that examination too

as my teachers wanted to test if I could do the next higher grade. I

got a double promotion.

 

In the Guru AD 1972/12/18 - 1975/06/30, I did very well at school,

stood first in school in SSC, got a gold medal, and one for essay

writing among school students in Andhra pradesh. I was in Hyderabad

then.

 

Budha MD, Mangala AD,Sani PD and the beginning of Budha sookshma AD

1984/05/09(10. 20 P.M) I got married.

 

During Budha MD and Sani AD, 1989/10/23 - 1992/06/30, made a lot of

money through trading in shares, bought my first flat.

I was away from my husband and children as they had relocated to

Chennai (my place of birth) and I could not as my request for transfer

did not materialise. I was also on leave for about 7 months on and off,

had lot of troubles professionally. I joined my family at the fag end

of the dasa as despite getting transferred I was not relieved by my

boss.

 

Ketu MD and Sani AD- 1997/05/23 - 1998/07/03, my children again lived

away for about an year( this time voluntarily- admitted them to a

residential school), was very sick and almost had a surgery(

hysterectomy) .

 

During( Rahu PAD) of this Sani AD was admitted to ICU(Cardiology) for

palpitations, 170-200 heart beats per minute. Was again on leave for 6

months. Had a terrible time at work, extreme pressure from my immediate

boss, Manager of my branch(I was his deputy). There was a lot of

mud-slinging, complaints from him at the annual conference as he

attributed his failure to me. He was rebuked and admonished in the

meeting for being authoritative, bad mouthing. This happened in the

beginning of AD. I did not report back and I was called by the top man

at HR to report to him directly at his office and offered to place me

at any branch of my choice- I worked with him. I was given an

independent charge of a branch that was defrauded by a Manager and some

of the clients. I had to totally revamp the system(none were in place),

clean up the mess and bring back the branch to normalcy( Budha AD, Rahu

PD).

 

During Sani PD on 1999/05/03,the day it started I was given another

branch on the brink of closure, which I turned into a model branch and

a profit centre.

 

Shukra MD, AD and Sani PD 2001/08/21 -2002/02/27 was the most turbulent

times when I had to weather frauds( 13th October) perpetrated by my

subordinates in collusion with some clients. I had to deal with legal

system, Police and CBI

but recovered the defrauded money(Dec 27 - Jan 7) for the bank. It took

its toll and my health deteriorated. I resigned in Nov 2004.

 

Shukra MD, Chandra AD, Shukra/Sani( Sookshma) my eldest son left

home after altercation with his father and has still not returned and

is living independently( though both have reconciled).

 

Shukra MD, Rahu AD, Sani PD(18/9/2007) I had a surgical procedure to

correct the palpitations which was successful with the Grace of the

Divine Mother.

 

Chandrasekhar ji, I would think the results are mixed but veering on to

the not so positive. But it involved both the grahas posited in 8th,

their lord ships and also Rahu who aspects (5th) Makara from AL. The A5

also falls in Makara.

 

As my whole Chart is somehow tangled in 4th 7th 8th 9th 10th houses

with all the grahas working together so beautifully together, I marvel

at the Divine Mother's leela (my own past karma)in creating the right

circumstances for fructification. I also believe in self-will and

constant presence of Divine Grace has helped me tide over extremely

difficult times. This interplay of grahas woven so intricately has made

my life one full of learning and gave me an yearning to learn Jyotish,

just so I can comprehend things otherwise difficult to.

These are observations based on events during Sani MD, AD PD, PAD and

SAD and some leading to them.

I have churned the chart to the best of my abilities but sometimes tend

to be subjective and need inputs from a learned Guru

like you.

 

Kind regards

Nalini

 

-----

Original Message ----

Chandrashekhar <sharma.chandrashekh ar (AT) gmail (DOT) com>

Vedic Astrologyandhe aling@ s.com

Thursday, 20 December, 2007 8:57:04 AM

Re: [Vedic Astrologyandh ealing] Re: Exceptions to 8'th

House- lalit ji

 

 

Dear Nalini,

 

Let us know how the first half of your Saturn dasha/antar or Pratyantar

fared and we can come to some conclusion. This is so because your

Saturn dasha might not even run. So you could check effects of its

Antar or Pratyantar within the dashas already run. These should be good

periods if such a lord is functional benefic and not so if it is not. I

am saying the first half as the 8th lordship results will come through

at that time.

 

Chandrashekhar.

 

 

 

nalini swamy wrote:

 

 

 

Hare Rama Krsna

Hrau Namah Adityaya

 

Dear Lalit ji,

Namaskar.

 

Take my chart for example, my 8th lord is Sani Maharaj who is also the

9th lord. The 8th bhava has the 5 and 12 th lord, 6th and 11th

lord(exalted) .

BTW bhagyasthana is Kumbha occupied by Surya(uttamamsa) .

I have been always given two versions of it, one -bhagyasthana was

afflicted and another not.

For premise we could even leave the tenancy of the 9th house and focus

on the lordship alone.

I would love inputs from Gurus for learning..

I also understand it is a piecemeal observation for academic study, not

taking into account other factors.

Regards

Nalini

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-----

Original Message ----

litsol <litsol >

Vedic Astrologyandhe aling@ s.com

Wednesday, 19 December, 2007 5:58:21 PM

[Vedic Astrologyandh ealing] Re: Exceptions to 8'th House

 

 

Dear Prabodh Ji,

 

Let's check it with the help of couple of horoscopes. That will be a

great help to all of us from our Gurus like u.

 

regards,

Lalit.

 

Vedic Astrologyandhe

aling@ s.com, "Prabodh Vekhande"

<amolmandar@ ...> wrote:

>

> Chandrashekhar ji

>

> First it says

>

> "Bhagyavyayadhiptye na randresho na shubhaprada"

>

> Lord of the 8th is not auspicious, being 12th house lord to 9th

> house.

> then it goes on

>

> "lagnatrikonapavash at sa eva shubhado mataH"

>

> But if it(8th lord) is trikonesh as well,then it will become

benefic.

>

>

> It is in Choukhanba Sanskrit Sansthan BPHS by Devashandra Za.

Atleast

> in this edition,we dont get a condition of 8th lord placement.

Which

> one to read and follow?

>

> Thanks a lot for your Time and Space.

>

> Prabodh Vekhande

> Jai Jai Shankar

> Har Har Shankar

>

>

>

> Vedic Astrologyandhe

aling@ s.com, Chandrashekhar

> <sharma.chandrashek har@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Prabodh,

> >

> > Read what Parashara says carefully, again. He says that only

when

> such a

> > graha is lagnesha and is placed in Lagna or the 8th it is not

to

be

> > considered ashubha. He does not say about its being shubha

only

by

> being

> > the co-lord of the 9th or trine to it. I am pasting the

shloka,

> with its

> > approximate translation (as much is lost in English

translation)

> for

> > your ready reference.

> >

> > ÉaGyVyaixpTyen rNØezae n zuÉàd>,

> >

> > bhägyavyädhipatyena randhreço na çubhapradaù |

> >

> > s @v zuÉsNxata l¶axIzae=ip cet! Svym!.9.

> >

> > sa eva çubhasandhätä lagnädhéço'pi cet svayam ||9||

> >

> >

> >

> > _Lord of the 8^th is not auspicious, being 12^th house lord

to

9^th

> > house. However if he is also Lord of lagna and occupies Lagna

or

> 8^th

> > house he gives benefic results._

> >

> >

> > Of course if you are referring to any other shloka, please

let me

> know

> > which shloka you are referring to.

> >

> > Take care,

> > Chandrashekhar.

> >

> > Prabodh Vekhande wrote:

> > >

> > > Chandrashekhar ji Namaste

> > >

> > > As per Parashara, 8th lord if as well be trine lord

should be

> > > considerd as Shubha. As per Parashara, 8th house is

ashubha

since

> it

> > > is 12th to 9th the bhagya. So when 8th lord is colord of

9th or

> trine

> > > to it, it does not affect badly to bhgaya and hence

should be

> treated

> > > as Shubha.

> > >

> > > Thanks a lot for your Time and Space.

> > >

> > > Prabodh Vekhande

> > > Jai Jai Shankar

> > > Har Har Shankar

> > >

> > > Vedic Astrologyandhe

aling@ s.com

> > > <vedicastrol

ogyandhealing% 40.

com>,

> Chandrashekhar

> > > <sharma.chandrashek har@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Lalit,

> > > >

> > > > They are yet not treated as functional benefics,

for dasha

> > > analysis. The

> > > > results are mixed as you rightly deduce. generally

if the

graha

> > > owns a

> > > > good house and another is the 6th or the 8th it is

not

> considered a

> > > > functional benefic.

> > > >

> > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > >

> > > > litsol wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Group/Elders,

> > > > >

> > > > > Pls. correct/enhance following , if required -

> > > > >

> > > > > a) If one and same planet is lord of 1st and

8'th , eg -

Mars

> for

> > > > > Aries Asc and Venus for Libra Asc, is not

considered bad.

> > > > >

> > > > > b) If one and same planet is lord of 5'th

*and* 8'th eg -

Jup

> > > for

> > > > > Leo Asc and Merc for Aquar Asc and placed in

5'th *or *8'th

> not

> > > > > considered bad.

> > > > >

> > > > > c) If on and same planet is lord of 8'th and

9'th eg - Sat

for

> > > Gemini

> > > > > Asc and placed in 9'th is not bad.

> > > > >

> > > > > My View : Though not bad, but should not be

fully good also,

> > > mixed

> > > > > results we should derive.

> > > > >

> > > > > I will be posting exceptions to other houeses

also.

> > > > >

> > > > > regards,

> > > > > Lalit.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger .

 

 

Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.

[Guest guest]

Dear Nalini,

 

These things happen. I remember my using the Usha-Shashi ayanamsha for

some research and forgetting to turn back to Lahiri, once. Fortunately

I discovered this before, I predicted for a person in distress and it

is really the Lord almighty who saved me a great embarrassment which

would certainly have been there had I used that chart and other data.

 

Your case, does seem to confirm the interpretation of Laghu Parashari

to be correct.

 

Take care,

Chandrashekhar,

 

 

nalini swamy wrote:

 

 

Hare Rama Krsna

Hraum Namah Adityay

 

Respected Chandrasekhar ji,

Namaskar

Thank you for clearing 'unseen cobwebs'.

I did not realise that I was not using the 360 days savana year. I dont

recall changing it, however your observations are quite valid. I do

think Sani Maharaj is not a functional benefic for  my chart though he

is also the 9th lord and I do believe that 'bhagya' is afflicted. Your

observations further validated  my belief.

I have replied as under,

Kind  regards

Nalini

 

 

-----

Original Message ----

Chandrashekhar <sharma.chandrashekhar >

Vedic Astrologyandhealing

Saturday, 22 December, 2007 9:11:27 AM

Re: [Vedic Astrologyandhealing] Re: Exceptions to 8'th

House- Shri Chandrasekarji

 

 

Dear Nalini,

 

It seems you are using something other than 360 days Savana year

definition for your dasha calculations so the dashas are off by a few

months.  having said that it appears that Saturn dashas were not very

shubha, generally. Transits of planets during the good results also

tend to explain some good periods too. But most importantly, Rahu-Shani

connected with health problems is a very clear indicator of how

Shani behaves for Mithuna lagna.

I agree with you entirely.

Having Roga adishtana in the 8th  Rahu's aspect , (neecha lagnadipathi,

even assuming having attained neechabhanga))also has given rise to

health problems, immune related , not diagnosed in time.

 

 There is no doubt that depending on the views one holds, the

results

could always be interpreted to suit one's pet theory. Please also

calculate according to the 360 Savana day parameter and let me know

what you think of Shani periods.

As  I said earlier, I

understand your stand on pet theories, you could always justify an

event after taking place, but I used it to advance my learning.

According to the parameter I would think that Shani Maharaj is not

entirely Shubha for me.

You do have a malayoga, besides a reduced Hamsa yoga, which you have

apparently missed out on while looking at your chart. That Shani being

exalted in Navamsha is also capable of giving results somewhat similar

to Shasha yoga also needs to be understood.

I have not discussed them as

I have limited myself to 8th  and 9th lord, houses.. Reduced Hamsa

mahapurusha yoga do you think because of yuti of Shani Maharaj and Guru

in his Moolatrikona? or because of his lordship of 8th house? By

malayoga do you mean Kalamrita yoga? I have also not taken into the

fact of the yuti of 12th and 6th in the 8th and VRY as some observe the

VRY as being defunct due to exalted 6th lord, can I have your opinion.

But I think it exists as there has always been success after lot of

pressure or someone's losses( though I would prefer the former as

building over someone's loss is anathema to me, but it has been a fact).

 

Venus the 5th lord in the 8th gave you the liking to delve deep into

ancient sciences and with Saturn and Jupiter together, I am sure you

are more comfortable with Dharma without external show.

Shukra I believe has also

given me inordinate pleasure in aquiring knowledge about ancient

literature- Greek , Roman and Egyptian and of course our own. I would

think Dharma is so ingrained into me that I dont like or feel the

necessity to toy with the external trappings, pomp, religiousity,

rituals etc, thanks to my biological mother and the Universal Mother.

Take care,

Chandrashekhar.

nalini swamy wrote:

 

 

 

 

 Hare Rama krsna

Hraum Namah Adityaya

 

Respected Chandrasekhar ji,

 

Namaskar.

I am sorry for not replying earlier,I was busy with Vaikuntha Ekadesi.

A very long mail and I request you to bear with me.

 

My balance dasha at birth was Saturn Mahadasha. The Ketu AD of that

dasha, 1962/03/29 - 1963/04/19,( PD of Budha)I was afflicted with

small pox which wiped out the entire children's ward in the Quarantine

Hospital, except me.

 

In AD of Shukra 1963/04/19-1966/06/21,

I excelled at school as from my class-room I heard and learnt the

lessons of the adjacent class as well(there was no partition between

the classes), one class higher and stood first in that examination too

as my teachers wanted to test if I could do the next higher grade. I

got a double promotion.

 

In the Guru AD 1972/12/18 - 1975/06/30, I did very well at school,

stood first in school in SSC, got a gold medal, and one for essay

writing among school students in Andhra pradesh. I was in Hyderabad

then.

 

Budha MD, Mangala AD,Sani PD and the beginning of Budha sookshma AD

1984/05/09(10. 20 P.M) I got married.

 

During Budha MD and Sani AD, 1989/10/23 - 1992/06/30, made a lot of

money through trading in shares, bought my first  flat.

I was away from my husband and children as they had relocated to

Chennai (my place of birth) and I could not as my request for transfer

did not materialise. I was also on leave for about 7 months on and off,

had lot of troubles professionally. I joined my family at the fag end

of the dasa as despite getting transferred I was not relieved by my

boss.

 

Ketu MD and Sani AD- 1997/05/23 - 1998/07/03, my children again lived

away  for about an year( this time voluntarily- admitted them to a

residential school), was very sick and almost had a surgery(

hysterectomy) .

 

During( Rahu PAD) of this Sani AD was admitted to ICU(Cardiology) for

palpitations, 170-200 heart beats per minute. Was again on leave for 6

months. Had a terrible time at work, extreme pressure from my immediate

boss, Manager of my branch(I was his deputy). There was a lot of

mud-slinging, complaints from him at the annual conference as he

attributed his failure to me. He was rebuked and admonished in the

meeting for being authoritative, bad mouthing. This happened in the

beginning of AD. I did not report back and I was called by the top man

at HR to report to him directly at his office and offered to place me

at any branch of my choice- I worked with him. I was given an

independent charge of a branch that was defrauded by a Manager and some

of the clients. I had to totally revamp the system(none were in place),

clean up the mess and bring back the branch to normalcy( Budha AD, Rahu

PD).

 

During Sani PD on 1999/05/03,the day it started I was given another

branch on the brink of closure, which I turned into a model branch and

a profit centre.

 

Shukra MD, AD and Sani PD 2001/08/21 -2002/02/27 was the most turbulent

times when I had to weather frauds( 13th October) perpetrated by my

subordinates in collusion with some clients. I had to deal with legal

system, Police and CBI

but recovered the defrauded money(Dec 27 - Jan 7) for the bank. It took

its toll and my health deteriorated. I resigned in Nov 2004.

 

Shukra MD, Chandra AD, Shukra/Sani( Sookshma) my eldest son left

home after altercation with his father and has still not returned and

is living independently( though both have reconciled).

 

Shukra MD, Rahu AD, Sani PD(18/9/2007)  I had a surgical procedure to

correct the palpitations which was successful with the Grace of the

Divine Mother.

 

Chandrasekhar ji, I would think the results are mixed but veering on to

the not so positive. But it involved both the grahas posited in 8th,

their lord ships and also Rahu who aspects (5th) Makara from AL. The A5

also falls in Makara.

 

As my whole Chart is somehow tangled in 4th 7th 8th 9th 10th houses

with all the grahas working together so beautifully together, I marvel

at the Divine Mother's leela (my own past karma)in creating the right

circumstances for fructification. I also believe in self-will and

constant presence of Divine Grace has helped me tide over extremely

difficult times. This interplay of grahas woven so intricately has made

my life one full of learning and gave me an yearning to learn Jyotish,

just so I can comprehend things otherwise difficult to.

These are observations based on events during Sani MD, AD PD, PAD and

SAD and some leading to them.

I have churned the chart to the best of my abilities but sometimes tend

to be subjective and need inputs from a learned Guru

like you.

 

Kind regards

Nalini

 

-----

Original Message ----

Chandrashekhar <sharma.chandrashekh ar (AT) gmail (DOT) com>

Vedic Astrologyandhe aling@ s.com

Thursday, 20 December, 2007 8:57:04 AM

Re: [Vedic Astrologyandh ealing] Re: Exceptions to 8'th

House- lalit ji

 

 

Dear Nalini,

 

Let us know how the first half of your Saturn dasha/antar or Pratyantar

fared and we can come to some conclusion. This is so because your

Saturn dasha might not even run. So you could check effects of its

Antar or Pratyantar within the dashas already run. These should be good

periods if such a lord is functional benefic and not so if it is not. I

am saying the first half as the 8th lordship results will come through

at that time.

 

Chandrashekhar.

 

 

 

nalini swamy wrote:

 

 

Hare Rama Krsna

Hrau Namah Adityaya

 

Dear Lalit ji,

Namaskar.

 

Take my chart for example, my 8th lord is Sani Maharaj who is also the

9th lord. The 8th bhava has the 5 and 12 th lord, 6th and 11th

lord(exalted) .

BTW bhagyasthana is Kumbha occupied by Surya(uttamamsa) .

I have been always given two versions of it, one -bhagyasthana was

afflicted and another not.

For premise we could even leave the tenancy of the 9th house and focus

on the lordship alone.

I would love inputs from Gurus for learning..

I also understand it is a piecemeal observation for academic study, not

taking into account other factors.

Regards

Nalini

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-----

Original Message ----

litsol <litsol (AT) (DOT)

com>

Vedic Astrologyandhe aling@ s.com

Wednesday, 19 December, 2007 5:58:21 PM

[Vedic Astrologyandh ealing] Re: Exceptions to 8'th House

 

 

Dear Prabodh Ji,

 

Let's check it with the help of couple of horoscopes. That will be a

great help to all of us from our Gurus like u.

 

regards,

Lalit.

 

Vedic Astrologyandhe

aling@ s.com, "Prabodh Vekhande"

<amolmandar@ ...> wrote:

>

> Chandrashekhar ji

>

> First it says

>

> "Bhagyavyayadhiptye na randresho na shubhaprada"

>

> Lord of the 8th is not auspicious, being 12th house lord to 9th

> house.

> then it goes on

>

> "lagnatrikonapavash at sa eva shubhado mataH"

>

> But if it(8th lord) is trikonesh as well,then it will become

benefic.

>

>

> It is in Choukhanba Sanskrit Sansthan BPHS by Devashandra Za.

Atleast

> in this edition,we dont get a condition of 8th lord placement.

Which

> one to read and follow?

>

> Thanks a lot for your Time and Space.

>

> Prabodh Vekhande

> Jai Jai Shankar

> Har Har Shankar

>

>

>

> Vedic Astrologyandhe

aling@ s.com, Chandrashekhar

> <sharma.chandrashek har@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Prabodh,

> >

> > Read what Parashara says carefully, again. He says that only

when

> such a

> > graha is lagnesha and is placed in Lagna or the 8th it is not

to

be

> > considered ashubha. He does not say about its being shubha

only

by

> being

> > the co-lord of the 9th or trine to it. I am pasting the

shloka,

> with its

> > approximate translation (as much is lost in English

translation)

> for

> > your ready reference.

> >

> > ÉaGyVyaixpTyen rNØezae n zuÉàd>,

> >

> > bhägyavyädhipatyena randhreço na çubhapradaù |

> >

> > s @v zuÉsNxata l¶axIzae=ip cet! Svym!.9.

> >

> > sa eva çubhasandhätä lagnädhéço'pi cet svayam ||9||

> >

> >

> >

> > _Lord of the 8^th is not auspicious, being 12^th house lord

to

9^th

> > house. However if he is also Lord of lagna and occupies Lagna

or

> 8^th

> > house he gives benefic results._

> >

> >

> > Of course if you are referring to any other shloka, please

let me

> know

> > which shloka you are referring to.

> >

> > Take care,

> > Chandrashekhar.

> >

> > Prabodh Vekhande wrote:

> > >

> > > Chandrashekhar ji Namaste

> > >

> > > As per Parashara, 8th lord if as well be trine lord

should be

> > > considerd as Shubha. As per Parashara, 8th house is

ashubha

since

> it

> > > is 12th to 9th the bhagya. So when 8th lord is colord of

9th or

> trine

> > > to it, it does not affect badly to bhgaya and hence

should be

> treated

> > > as Shubha.

> > >

> > > Thanks a lot for your Time and Space.

> > >

> > > Prabodh Vekhande

> > > Jai Jai Shankar

> > > Har Har Shankar

> > >

> > > Vedic Astrologyandhe

aling@ s.com

> > > <vedicastrol

ogyandhealing% 40.

com>,

> Chandrashekhar

> > > <sharma.chandrashek har@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Lalit,

> > > >

> > > > They are yet not treated as functional benefics,

for dasha

> > > analysis. The

> > > > results are mixed as you rightly deduce. generally

if the

graha

> > > owns a

> > > > good house and another is the 6th or the 8th it is

not

> considered a

> > > > functional benefic.

> > > >

> > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > >

> > > > litsol wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Group/Elders,

> > > > >

> > > > > Pls. correct/enhance following , if required -

> > > > >

> > > > > a) If one and same planet is lord of 1st and

8'th , eg -

Mars

> for

> > > > > Aries Asc and Venus for Libra Asc, is not

considered bad.

> > > > >

> > > > > b) If one and same planet is lord of 5'th

*and* 8'th eg -

Jup

> > > for

> > > > > Leo Asc and Merc for Aquar Asc and placed in

5'th *or *8'th

> not

> > > > > considered bad.

> > > > >

> > > > > c) If on and same planet is lord of 8'th and

9'th eg - Sat

for

> > > Gemini

> > > > > Asc and placed in 9'th is not bad.

> > > > >

> > > > > My View : Though not bad, but should not be

fully good also,

> > > mixed

> > > > > results we should derive.

> > > > >

> > > > > I will be posting exceptions to other houeses

also.

> > > > >

> > > > > regards,

> > > > > Lalit.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.