Guest guest Posted December 26, 2007 Report Share Posted December 26, 2007 Dear Aavesh, That is true. I have some copies of manuscripts from there, courtesy my astrologer friend Ravindra Bhagwat. Chandrashekhar. aavesh t wrote: Namaskar RKDa, Nice to get your thoughts on this important topic. Bhandarkar Oriental Research Institute in Pune (on Bhandarakar Road next to FTII) also has some rare manuscripts on Jyotish and Indology I have personally been there on one ocassion and can vouch for the vast amount of literature on view (Quite a bit was burnt in the fire which engulfed the institute about 4 years back) Lovers of Jyotish/Ayurveda would do well to pay a visit to this hallowed institution Regards, aavesh rk dash <arkaydash > wrote: Members, scholars: The thread has served a purpose, that of acquainting many of us with what was what by consolidating some of our vague impressions. While Shree Chandrshekhar has put things in perspective, Sunil Saab has done his bit of good by voicing the little biases here and there. I agree (with him) that the tradition can go on and on, any clime, anytime. North it was. South retains vibrancy. As much as it is touted to do? Sadly we haven't as many, perhaps hardly any, able astrology sooth-sayers as we should. Aavesh tells us something of immediacy: the bookstore in Gaya. Thank you, Aavesh, for taking us to Mannulal Pustakalaya. Will someone please confirm it still functions? RK On 25/12/2007, aavesh t <aavesh_s (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote: Namsakar Chandrashekarji, A very enlightening mail from you Sir. I beg your pardon for stepping into what is a dialogue between you and Sunliji.My two cents on the issue under discussion : I think what is being forgotten is that Varanasi was the most highly regarded seat of learning of hindu shastras for long. To establish one's authority on hindu shastras, one had to defeat the Pandits of Varanasi in discussions based on Tarka and Pramana. Jyotish being one of the main hindu shastras, saying that astrological tradition in north was not common is perhaps far from truth. You have made a very valid point Sir.Varanasi has indeed been a focal point for Jyotish studies.The contributions of Pundits like Sitaram Jha to Jyotish are really a benchmark. Incidentally the 'Mannulal Pustakalya' in Gaya is another place where Jyotish manuscripts are available (I am not sure whether it is currently open though) By the way, Varaha Mihira was with the King of Ujjain. Ujjain (Ujjayani) has been the other important city for Jyotish studies since the time of Varahamihira.Prithyuyashas (credited to be the son of Varahamihira) has also written a seminal work on Jyotish known as 'Hora Sara' (In my opinion the best classic in delieneting the effects of planets in various Bhavas) I do not think I have denied existence of families with long tradition of jyotish being in existence in South India. Incidentally, my family also comes from South India and we have our own long unbroken parampara in jyotish, coming through my maternal grandmother's side of family. But that does not mean there were no such families in north of India. Very True Sir.Even today Ujjain has got some very renowned Jyotish families who have a long tradition of practicing Jyotish I do not think we are doing the divine science any service by bringing the north south regional divide in to the discussions that began with Parashara being one of the Pravartakas. Very true Sir.This has been the bane of Jyotish and has occupied considerable time and space on various groups.The important thing is to treat Jyotish as a Vedanga and not get into too many controversies on origins which will just serve to waste valuable time and space Regards, aavesh sunil nair wrote: hare ramakrishna , respected chandrasekhar ji .. I think we r discussing some thing with imotional attachments and not willing to see the truth. u r willing to accept that astrology originated from sivaji and also many ppl ascribe to different gods or rishi kulas (sapta rishis). even vedas discuss some astrology where as parashara was no where during veda period . Also in parasari the dasavatar is discussed as planetary devatas where as the oldest worshipping god in india by all means siva is not mentioned .(Atleast my information ) then 18 pravarthakas like brahma ,narada is learned from parasara if u go by ur versions. also the astrological tradition in north and bphs was not very common in north also as may be various reason . from varahamihira tovenkitesha daivagna(marathi astrology families ) whose family migrated to varanasi ,after a long gap in astrology . oldest versions of bphs we got from south and also from many collectors in west and still some blv the compendium called available bphs its self is corrupted and incomplete . Also many dasas ,if u go by parasari itself ,not explained in it .where as avilable in many part of india in detail ,example yogini dasa . so if we can forget all this then ur argument is correct . even now long standing families in astro is in south except the claim or truth of pt sanjay raths orissa tradition. Yes kerala also during the hight of budhism ,as asoka and his dughter sangamitra came to kerala and sent budhistmonks all over world tru kerala ports and budhism s contribution to astro was almost meagre Then brahmins ( still in kerala sanskrit and all traditions are vibrant with all communities) learned astro from other communities and they started again more vibrant .But kerala has ppl from all castes as astrologers or u name anythings abt indian sciences and mutualy r gurus to each other .Here No caste system worked out ,even the sanskrit tradition was like that . And when king of travancore ,kerala started a sanskrit college under the chairman ship of his son krishnan nair ( as to re direct his anti british activites -he was funding irish republican army ) the OBC students got first ranks in schools and fianaly krishnan nair has given one of his palace as college in kerala as other college was in a tamil brahmin village known as agraharam and they objected it . so they r using more varahmihira ,aryabhatta and bhaskara traditions and parameshara s drigganita which corrected surya sidhnata and planetary positions. Also i find in jaimini the system of katapayadi which is only popular in kerala .sri vara ruchi was propounder of this system and any body authored any books we can understand its year of writing by katapayadi methods again i am yet to find any book in north in sanskrit using it . In parasari u find jaimini and jaimini some says differrent .Some says jaimini is sisya of parasara -then y he said jaimini sutra instead parasari?? who proceeds who ?? if we argue we can say both ,and jaimini uses the keralas prevalent katapayadi system .So many things we can co relate >and here i am not bringing anything religionalism or what ever .But in a debate every thing will spring up .That is the reason atleast with indians and hindus i avoid it as then they will start things imotionaly ..Showing the non maturity and dont know even how to participate in a discussions so so many unanswered questions are there . so we can agree to disagree here and let us close this tread which is no way contributing for the study . regrds sunil nair om shreem mahalaxmai namah. Vedic Astrologyandhealing , Chandrashekhar <sharma.chandrashekhar wrote: > > Dear Sunil, > > Beliefs and truth are sometimes at variance. Again many of the Kerala > astro texts give greater importance to Varaha Mihira than other and > earlier texts, as with Prashna Marga. So they are of apparently a later > date. Deva Keralam quotes liberally from many of the pravartakas. This > is but natural. > > I think that since the shastra originated with Lord Shiva as do all > shastras emanate from him, him being the Adya Guru, it is natural that > there would be more than one pravartaka to spread the knowledge in Jambu > Dvipa. > > BPHS is certainly a compendium of all that was attributed to Parashara. > But there were some manuscripts named Parashari that were also > discovered in north of India. So not all editions are based on shlokas > collected from those who remembered them. > > Take care, > Chandrashekhar. > > sunil nair wrote: > > > > > > > > Hare ramakrishna, > > > > respected chandrasekhar ji . > > > > even i dont think its skanda who wrote the skanda hora ,but that is > > the blv in south among some sects of ppl. > > > > Parasara tho now source commonly available ,but u know there is more > > explained texts still in circulation.Even u know deva kerala has more > > detailed descriptions . > > > > so all this make me blve parasari is a compendium of all astrological > > priciples waht ever avilable to him and got corrupted later to great > > extent . > > > > > > > > because as u said the variation and different apraoch available with > > even available resources make me think logicaly . > > > > also among the 18 paracharak s parasara stands last in the list .if > > one is propounder then why there is mentions abt 18 ones. > > > > > > > > > > > > regrds sunil nair > > > > om shreem mahalaxmai namah . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vedic Astrologyandhealing , Chandrashekhar > > sharma.chandrashekhar@ wrote: > > > > > > Dear Sunil, > > > > > > It is said that "laxam vyakaranam proktam chaturlaxam tu jyotisham" > > > indicating existence of many jyotish texts. It is difficult to date > > most > > > of the really ancient texts as they were never in the form of texts but > > > shlokas carried in the memory of the shishyas. So antiquity of a > > > manuscript and existence of a grantha through memory are two different > > > matters. That again is why it is difficult to establish the > > antiquity of > > > many Hindu texts. > > > > > > Anyway, it remains a fact that in the north India Sage Parashara is > > > treated as one of the principal source of astrological principles. I > > > have not yet seen Skanda hora and therefore can not comment on its > > > antiquity. However it is certainly not written by Lord Skanda. > > > > > > The dasha interpretation is available in text and manuscript form as > > > Laghu Parashari or Ududaaya Pradeep. Actually there is also one Madhya > > > Parashari. This generated in the interest in searching fro the > > Parashari > > > and that led to finding manuscripts which were named as Brihat > > Parashara > > > Hora Shastra. besides the manuscripts, an attempt was made to collect > > > the shlokas carried in memory by the astrologers of yore and these also > > > find place in some of the editions of BPHS. > > > > > > Take care, > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > sunil nair wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hare ramakrishna , > > > > > > > > respected chandra sekhar ji . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I never said parasaras contributions r nothing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again my guru told me the jyothishas first reference shows its rishi > > > > lagadha who we can say first mentiond name but his books or hora is > > > > not available ,but going by ref ,it shows may be bc 8000 or 10000 as > > > > he was mentioned in many literature > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But literature says 18 pravarthakas ,parasara is one .Even i think > > > > varahamihira says .Kerala books also mentiones so . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what i said is skanda hora is available oldest test pre dating > > > > parasara tho i dont see it . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and since i am far away from home my main library is there back home . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what i was pointing out is lot of literature on various technics r > > > > still scattered in different texts and even parampara , > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I heard some dasa parasara uses only 4 lines to describe ,but if u go > > > > to some part of india ,u can find its safely preserved as a full > > blown > > > > system with some families . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so from where they got it ,from BPHS or it was codyfied in BPHS > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks u for ur valuable advise > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regrds sunil nair > > > > > > > > om shreem mahalaxmai namah. > > > > > > > > > > > > Vedic Astrologyandhealing , Chandrashekhar > > > > sharma.chandrashekhar@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sunil, > > > > > > > > > > I think that is not strictly correct. If you read the chapter on > > > > > Ashtakavarga carefully you will understand why I say this. Skanda is > > > > > said to have created Samudrik shastra and only because there is > > a text > > > > > called Skanda Hora (as I think you wrote in one of your posts -"But > > > > > oldest hora available is skanda hora .") does not mean that it > > is the > > > > > original text from which all Pravartakas drew their knowledge. > > Actually > > > > > all shastras originated from Lord Shiva. > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > sunil nair wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dear lalit , > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parasara is not founder of any sistem ,he ammassed what ever > > > > > > available in the name of indian astrology and present it in > > book form > > > > > > .Even he also never said i am starting any new system. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there r so many rishis and paramparas b4 parasara into astrology > > > > > > .Every grp or geographical areas of old bharath may be very bigger > > > > > > than we can assume today may be contributed for astrology . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > parasara was one of the 18 jyothisha pravarthakas in astrology > > .The > > > > > > contribution from all quarters of society and total > > conscieceness of > > > > > > old indian or hindus is available in BPHS which later may be > > > > corrupted > > > > > > also . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now i hav one question can any body say by looking at the family > > > > > > horoscope how they r related to each other . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Going by years its possible . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i am saying i will giv one chart of a father and 4 other > > charts can > > > > > > any body find who is son of this father ?. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This method was used pre DNA testing period to find whether > > this boy > > > > > > is born to this father ,and mind it his child giving dasas may > > not be > > > > > > indicating as those days may be a king or rich persons has so many > > > > > > wifes or even keeps which was allowed by society .So his child may > > > > > > born any where .Think mahabharath and they hav childrens even > > among > > > > > > forest tribes and other communitties but only prathama patnis > > eldest > > > > > > son is eligible for kingdom or other titles. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also pls quote relevent sloka from parasari . > > > > > > > > > > > > Jyothish is not linited to major corner stones applicable > > these days > > > > > > of material life ,NOw a days no parents want to know whether > > my kid > > > > > > will become a budha or gandhi ,they r eger to know whther he will > > > > > > become doctor or some one who make money ( and whatever method is > > > > also > > > > > > unimportant ) . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > More in next . > > > > > > > > > > > > regrds sunil nair . > > > > > > > > > > > > om shreem mahalaxmai namah. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vedic Astrologyandhealing , "litsol" litsol@ > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I m sorry for this mistake. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > Lalit. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vedic Astrologyandhealing , aavesh t > > > > > > > aavesh_s@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lalit, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A small correction:The author of BPHS was Maharishi > > Parashar and > > > > > > > > not Bhrigu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maharishi Bhrigu wrote the Brighu Samhita > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > aavesh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > litsol litsol@ wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Anoop, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No one in astrology is greater than Bhrigu itself , when > > Bhrigu > > > > > > > > himself revealed his knowledge in BPHS, what these > > miniatures will > > > > > > > > have with them in so called parampara. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > See, it's ridiculous that in one's life other than his > > job, change > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > job, ups and downs, travels, love, marriage, failure of > > love or > > > > > > > > marriage, kids , kids life , diseases , property accumulation > > > > etc.. > > > > > > > > nothing happens, Vedic Astrology is capable of telling u > > all the > > > > > > > > details about this. what the hell so called parampara or > > so called > > > > > > > > secret knowledge will more tell u, because nothing more is > > > > > > > happening > > > > > > > > in ur life. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anoop, what more happens in life which needs hidden knowedge > > > > to get > > > > > > > > revealed ? Dont get trapped in such type of astrologers who > > > > > > > advocates > > > > > > > > secrets ... and secrets... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if somebody knows something exclusive, he should pay his > > debt to > > > > > > > > Bhrigu and other Sages by advancing his knowledge to next > > > > > > > generations. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do u think an ingrate person can do good in astrology ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry, Never !! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Advocating parampara is nothing but a tool to befool either > > > > > > > > financially or emotionally, a tool for self branding. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > Lalit. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vedic Astrologyandhealing , anoop singh > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Lalit Ji, Kiran Ji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lalit Ji, i pray for the good health of your father. > > > > > > > > > Its great to know that Lalit ji is remembering all the > > things > > > > > > > > which i told on telephonic conversation. But Lalit Ji now > > i don,t > > > > > > > > have any affair and i hope that my marriage will be > > arranged one. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kiran Ji, > > > > > > > > > I read your analysis and want to know you something. > > Between > > > > 2000- > > > > > > > > 2003, i was going through Rahu MD and Mercury AD, that > > period was > > > > > > > > very good to me and i was getting distinction in my > > education and > > > > > > > > doing even better that what i deserved. Mercury was giving > > me very > > > > > > > > good results. I don't know whether it was due to its > > placement in > > > > > > > 8th > > > > > > > > house(regarede as good placement for mercury in all astrology > > > > > > > books) > > > > > > > > or its parivartana with moon which gives unusual or unexpected > > > > > > > > results. > > > > > > > > > Even Rahu, Moon period is giving me better results > > > > professionally > > > > > > > > till date besides some minor problems. > > > > > > > > > I think dasa dependency and mere placement of planet doesn,t > > > > > > > > reveal all. Something more is to be find out through the > > composite > > > > > > > > study of chart with the hidden knowledge of astrology that is > > > > > > > > confined with some astrologers coming from the parampara. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks & regards, > > > > > > > > > Anoop. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "kiran.rama" wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dear Aveshji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I checked the horoscope of anoop > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He has dhanus ascendant > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10H Lord Mercury is in 8th house is not good placement > > > > > > > > > Mercury should give following results in his period: > > > > > > > > > * All efforts go waste > > > > > > > > > * Loss of name and fame - Disgrace > > > > > > > > > * Bad Life abroad - meaning staying in foreign land away > > > > from home > > > > > > > > > yearning to go home but job keeping one in foreign land > > > > > > > > > * Dangers etc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To make matters worse, Rahu is in 10H and malefic Ketu is > > > > > > > aspecting > > > > > > > > > 10H by way of graha drishti and these malefics toegether > > > > will give > > > > > > > > > following results in their periods: > > > > > > > > > * Obstruction to profession/job > > > > > > > > > * Servants/Followers forsaking native: Bad time in job > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Using True Ayanamsa of Chandrahari started from the > > Moon, native > > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > > Rahu MD till 2010 July. > > > > > > > > > Jupiter MD starting after this will be good but Mercury AD > > > > between > > > > > > > > > 2015 Mar and 2017 Jun is likely to bring bad results > > > > signified by > > > > > > > > > Mercury above. Ketu following it is also not good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am a learner in astrology and so forgive any gaps in my > > > > > > > > understanding > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > > Kiran > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vedic Astrologyandhealing , aavesh t > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lalit, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have recieved this request for consultation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you know this person ??.Could you give me a brief > > of his > > > > > > > > > background ?? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Based on your feedback I shall proceed in the matter > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > aavesh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > P.S:Pls give me your private email id (so that I can > > post such > > > > > > > > > messages directly to you) and not trouble the group members > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > anoop singh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Respected Aavesh Ji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I came to know you from Lalit working in HCL. > > > > > > > > > > As i am facing some problem i am writing you personally. > > > > > > > > > > I faced lot of problem in my career. And After 3 > > changes in > > > > > > > > > company i have recently joined a company and hope for good > > > > future > > > > > > > > here. > > > > > > > > > > I had to face a failed affair though it was a long and > > deep > > > > > > > > > association. > > > > > > > > > > Now I am concerned about my marriage and marital life. > > > > > > > > > > When will i get married and how would be my wife and > > marital > > > > > > > life? > > > > > > > > > Please guide me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DOB: 12- July - 1978. > > > > > > > > > > TOB: 17:14 > > > > > > > > > > POB: Gorakhpur(UP)(83 E 22, 26 N 45) > > > > > > > > > > Ascendant: Sagitarius(Dhanu)- Taurus Navamsa. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, Please consider my situation and guide me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks & regards, > > > > > > > > > > Anoop. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Never miss a thing. Make your homepage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With Best Wishes, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > aavesh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Forgot the famous last words? Access your message archive > > > > > > > online. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Never miss a thing. Make your homepage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 1, 2008 Report Share Posted January 1, 2008 Dear Chandrashekarji, WISH YOU A HAPPY NEW YEAR I am sorry for the delay in replying to this mail.I have been fortunate to meet some good Jyotishis in Pune during my stay there If I may ask: Is your friend Ravindra Bhagwat a Astroplamist ?? I am asking this as I recall meeting a Jyotishi with a similar name Regards, aavesh Chandrashekhar <sharma.chandrashekhar wrote: Dear Aavesh, That is true. I have some copies of manuscripts from there, courtesy my astrologer friend Ravindra Bhagwat.Chandrashekhar.aavesh t wrote: Namaskar RKDa, Nice to get your thoughts on this important topic. Bhandarkar Oriental Research Institute in Pune (on Bhandarakar Road next to FTII) also has some rare manuscripts on Jyotish and Indology I have personally been there on one ocassion and can vouch for the vast amount of literature on view (Quite a bit was burnt in the fire which engulfed the institute about 4 years back) Lovers of Jyotish/Ayurveda would do well to pay a visit to this hallowed institution Regards, aavesh rk dash <arkaydash > wrote: Members, scholars: The thread has served a purpose, that of acquainting many of us with what was what by consolidating some of our vague impressions. While Shree Chandrshekhar has put things in perspective, Sunil Saab has done his bit of good by voicing the little biases here and there. I agree (with him) that the tradition can go on and on, any clime, anytime. North it was. South retains vibrancy. As much as it is touted to do? Sadly we haven't as many, perhaps hardly any, able astrology sooth-sayers as we should. Aavesh tells us something of immediacy: the bookstore in Gaya. Thank you, Aavesh, for taking us to Mannulal Pustakalaya. Will someone please confirm it still functions? RK On 25/12/2007, aavesh t <aavesh_s (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote: Namsakar Chandrashekarji, A very enlightening mail from you Sir. I beg your pardon for stepping into what is a dialogue between you and Sunliji.My two cents on the issue under discussion : I think what is being forgotten is that Varanasi was the most highly regarded seat of learning of hindu shastras for long. To establish one's authority on hindu shastras, one had to defeat the Pandits of Varanasi in discussions based on Tarka and Pramana. Jyotish being one of the main hindu shastras, saying that astrological tradition in north was not common is perhaps far from truth. You have made a very valid point Sir.Varanasi has indeed been a focal point for Jyotish studies.The contributions of Pundits like Sitaram Jha to Jyotish are really a benchmark. Incidentally the 'Mannulal Pustakalya' in Gaya is another place where Jyotish manuscripts are available (I am not sure whether it is currently open though)By the way, Varaha Mihira was with the King of Ujjain. Ujjain (Ujjayani) has been the other important city for Jyotish studies since the time of Varahamihira.Prithyuyashas (credited to be the son of Varahamihira) has also written a seminal work on Jyotish known as 'Hora Sara' (In my opinion the best classic in delieneting the effects of planets in various Bhavas) I do not think I have denied existence of families with long tradition of jyotish being in existence in South India. Incidentally, my family also comes from South India and we have our own long unbroken parampara in jyotish, coming through my maternal grandmother's side of family. But that does not mean there were no such families in north of India. Very True Sir.Even today Ujjain has got some very renowned Jyotish families who have a long tradition of practicing Jyotish I do not think we are doing the divine science any service by bringing the north south regional divide in to the discussions that began with Parashara being one of the Pravartakas. Very true Sir.This has been the bane of Jyotish and has occupied considerable time and space on various groups.The important thing is to treat Jyotish as a Vedanga and not get into too many controversies on origins which will just serve to waste valuable time and space Regards, aaveshsunil nair wrote: hare ramakrishna , respected chandrasekhar ji . I think we r discussing some thing with imotional attachments and not willing to see the truth. u r willing to accept that astrology originated from sivaji and also many ppl ascribe to different gods or rishi kulas (sapta rishis). even vedas discuss some astrology where as parashara was no where during veda period . Also in parasari the dasavatar is discussed as planetary devatas where as the oldest worshipping god in india by all means siva is not mentioned .(Atleast my information ) then 18 pravarthakas like brahma ,narada is learned from parasara if u go by ur versions. also the astrological tradition in north and bphs was not very common in north also as may be various reason . from varahamihira tovenkitesha daivagna(marathi astrology families ) whose family migrated to varanasi ,after a long gap in astrology . oldest versions of bphs we got from south and also from many collectors in west and still some blv the compendium called available bphs its self is corrupted and incomplete . Also many dasas ,if u go by parasari itself ,not explained in it .where as avilable in many part of india in detail ,example yogini dasa . so if we can forget all this then ur argument is correct . even now long standing families in astro is in south except the claim or truth of pt sanjay raths orissa tradition. Yes kerala also during the hight of budhism ,as asoka and his dughter sangamitra came to kerala and sent budhistmonks all over world tru kerala ports and budhism s contribution to astro was almost meagre Then brahmins ( still in kerala sanskrit and all traditions are vibrant with all communities) learned astro from other communities and they started again more vibrant .But kerala has ppl from all castes as astrologers or u name anythings abt indian sciences and mutualy r gurus to each other .Here No caste system worked out ,even the sanskrit tradition was like that . And when king of travancore ,kerala started a sanskrit college under the chairman ship of his son krishnan nair ( as to re direct his anti british activites -he was funding irish republican army ) the OBC students got first ranks in schools and fianaly krishnan nair has given one of his palace as college in kerala as other college was in a tamil brahmin village known as agraharam and they objected it . so they r using more varahmihira ,aryabhatta and bhaskara traditions and parameshara s drigganita which corrected surya sidhnata and planetary positions. Also i find in jaimini the system of katapayadi which is only popular in kerala .sri vara ruchi was propounder of this system and any body authored any books we can understand its year of writing by katapayadi methods again i am yet to find any book in north in sanskrit using it . In parasari u find jaimini and jaimini some says differrent .Some says jaimini is sisya of parasara -then y he said jaimini sutra instead parasari?? who proceeds who ?? if we argue we can say both ,and jaimini uses the keralas prevalent katapayadi system .So many things we can co relate >and here i am not bringing anything religionalism or what ever .But in a debate every thing will spring up .That is the reason atleast with indians and hindus i avoid it as then they will start things imotionaly .Showing the non maturity and dont know even how to participate in a discussions so so many unanswered questions are there . so we can agree to disagree here and let us close this tread which is no way contributing for the study . regrds sunil nair om shreem mahalaxmai namah. Vedic Astrologyandhealing , Chandrashekhar <sharma.chandrashekhar wrote:>> Dear Sunil,> > Beliefs and truth are sometimes at variance. Again many of the Kerala > astro texts give greater importance to Varaha Mihira than other and > earlier texts, as with Prashna Marga. So they are of apparently a later > date. Deva Keralam quotes liberally from many of the pravartakas. This > is but natural.> > I think that since the shastra originated with Lord Shiva as do all > shastras emanate from him, him being the Adya Guru, it is natural that > there would be more than one pravartaka to spread the knowledge in Jambu > Dvipa.> > BPHS is certainly a compendium of all that was attributed to Parashara. > But there were some manuscripts named Parashari that were also > discovered in north of India. So not all editions are based on shlokas > collected from those who remembered them.> > Take care,> Chandrashekhar.> > sunil nair wrote:> >> > > >> > Hare ramakrishna,> >> > respected chandrasekhar ji .> >> > even i dont think its skanda who wrote the skanda hora ,but that is > > the blv in south among some sects of ppl.> >> > Parasara tho now source commonly available ,but u know there is more > > explained texts still in circulation.Even u know deva kerala has more > > detailed descriptions .> >> > so all this make me blve parasari is a compendium of all astrological > > priciples waht ever avilable to him and got corrupted later to great > > extent .> >> > > >> > because as u said the variation and different apraoch available with > > even available resources make me think logicaly .> >> > also among the 18 paracharak s parasara stands last in the list .if > > one is propounder then why there is mentions abt 18 ones.> >> > > >> > > >> > regrds sunil nair > >> > om shreem mahalaxmai namah .> >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >> > Vedic Astrologyandhealing , Chandrashekhar > > sharma.chandrashekhar@ wrote:> > >> > > Dear Sunil,> > >> > > It is said that "laxam vyakaranam proktam chaturlaxam tu jyotisham" > > > indicating existence of many jyotish texts. It is difficult to date > > most> > > of the really ancient texts as they were never in the form of texts but> > > shlokas carried in the memory of the shishyas. So antiquity of a > > > manuscript and existence of a grantha through memory are two different> > > matters. That again is why it is difficult to establish the > > antiquity of> > > many Hindu texts. > > >> > > Anyway, it remains a fact that in the north India Sage Parashara is> > > treated as one of the principal source of astrological principles. I> > > have not yet seen Skanda hora and therefore can not comment on its > > > antiquity. However it is certainly not written by Lord Skanda.> > >> > > The dasha interpretation is available in text and manuscript form as> > > Laghu Parashari or Ududaaya Pradeep. Actually there is also one Madhya > > > Parashari. This generated in the interest in searching fro the > > Parashari> > > and that led to finding manuscripts which were named as Brihat > > Parashara> > > Hora Shastra. besides the manuscripts, an attempt was made to collect > > > the shlokas carried in memory by the astrologers of yore and these also> > > find place in some of the editions of BPHS.> > >> > > Take care,> > > Chandrashekhar. > > >> > > sunil nair wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > hare ramakrishna ,> > > >> > > > respected chandra sekhar ji . > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > I never said parasaras contributions r nothing.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Again my guru told me the jyothishas first reference shows its rishi > > > > lagadha who we can say first mentiond name but his books or hora is> > > > not available ,but going by ref ,it shows may be bc 8000 or 10000 as> > > > he was mentioned in many literature > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > But literature says 18 pravarthakas ,parasara is one .Even i think> > > > varahamihira says .Kerala books also mentiones so . > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > what i said is skanda hora is available oldest test pre dating> > > > parasara tho i dont see it .> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > and since i am far away from home my main library is there back home .> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > what i was pointing out is lot of literature on various technics r > > > > still scattered in different texts and even parampara ,> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > I heard some dasa parasara uses only 4 lines to describe ,but if u go > > > > to some part of india ,u can find its safely preserved as a full > > blown> > > > system with some families .> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > so from where they got it ,from BPHS or it was codyfied in BPHS> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > thanks u for ur valuable advise > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > regrds sunil nair> > > >> > > > om shreem mahalaxmai namah.> > > >> > > > > > > > Vedic Astrologyandhealing , Chandrashekhar> > > > sharma.chandrashekhar@ wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Dear Sunil,> > > > >> > > > > I think that is not strictly correct. If you read the chapter on > > > > > Ashtakavarga carefully you will understand why I say this. Skanda is> > > > > said to have created Samudrik shastra and only because there is > > a text> > > > > called Skanda Hora (as I think you wrote in one of your posts -"But > > > > > oldest hora available is skanda hora .") does not mean that it > > is the> > > > > original text from which all Pravartakas drew their knowledge. > > Actually > > > > > all shastras originated from Lord Shiva.> > > > >> > > > > Chandrashekhar.> > > > >> > > > > sunil nair wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > dear lalit ,> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Parasara is not founder of any sistem ,he ammassed what ever > > > > > > available in the name of indian astrology and present it in > > book form> > > > > > .Even he also never said i am starting any new system.> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > there r so many rishis and paramparas b4 parasara into astrology> > > > > > .Every grp or geographical areas of old bharath may be very bigger > > > > > > than we can assume today may be contributed for astrology .> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > parasara was one of the 18 jyothisha pravarthakas in astrology > > .The> > > > > > contribution from all quarters of society and total > > conscieceness of> > > > > > old indian or hindus is available in BPHS which later may be > > > > corrupted> > > > > > also .> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Now i hav one question can any body say by looking at the family > > > > > > horoscope how they r related to each other .> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Going by years its possible . > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > i am saying i will giv one chart of a father and 4 other > > charts can> > > > > > any body find who is son of this father ?. > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > This method was used pre DNA testing period to find whether > > this boy> > > > > > is born to this father ,and mind it his child giving dasas may > > not be> > > > > > indicating as those days may be a king or rich persons has so many> > > > > > wifes or even keeps which was allowed by society .So his child may> > > > > > born any where .Think mahabharath and they hav childrens even > > among> > > > > > forest tribes and other communitties but only prathama patnis > > eldest > > > > > > son is eligible for kingdom or other titles.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > also pls quote relevent sloka from parasari . > > > > > >> > > > > > Jyothish is not linited to major corner stones applicable > > these days> > > > > > of material life ,NOw a days no parents want to know whether > > my kid> > > > > > will become a budha or gandhi ,they r eger to know whther he will> > > > > > become doctor or some one who make money ( and whatever method is> > > > also> > > > > > unimportant ) .> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > More in next .> > > > > >> > > > > > regrds sunil nair .> > > > > >> > > > > > om shreem mahalaxmai namah.> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Vedic Astrologyandhealing , "litsol" litsol@> > > > > > wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Sir,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I m sorry for this mistake.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > regards,> > > > > > > Lalit.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vedic Astrologyandhealing , aavesh t > > > > > > > aavesh_s@ wrote:> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Dear Lalit,> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > A small correction:The author of BPHS was Maharishi > > Parashar and> > > > > > > > not Bhrigu.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Maharishi Bhrigu wrote the Brighu Samhita> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > aavesh> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > litsol litsol@ wrote:> > > > > > > > Dear Anoop,> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > No one in astrology is greater than Bhrigu itself , when > > Bhrigu> > > > > > > > himself revealed his knowledge in BPHS, what these > > miniatures will> > > > > > > > have with them in so called parampara. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > See, it's ridiculous that in one's life other than his > > job, change> > > > > > > in> > > > > > > > job, ups and downs, travels, love, marriage, failure of > > love or> > > > > > > > marriage, kids , kids life , diseases , property accumulation> > > > etc..> > > > > > > > nothing happens, Vedic Astrology is capable of telling u > > all the> > > > > > > > details about this. what the hell so called parampara or > > so called> > > > > > > > secret knowledge will more tell u, because nothing more is > > > > > > > happening> > > > > > > > in ur life.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Anoop, what more happens in life which needs hidden knowedge > > > > to get> > > > > > > > revealed ? Dont get trapped in such type of astrologers who> > > > > > > advocates> > > > > > > > secrets ... and secrets... > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > if somebody knows something exclusive, he should pay his > > debt to> > > > > > > > Bhrigu and other Sages by advancing his knowledge to next > > > > > > > generations.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Do u think an ingrate person can do good in astrology ?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry, Never !!> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Advocating parampara is nothing but a tool to befool either> > > > > > > > financially or emotionally, a tool for self branding. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > regards,> > > > > > > > Lalit.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Vedic Astrologyandhealing , anoop singh> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Hi Lalit Ji, Kiran Ji> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Lalit Ji, i pray for the good health of your father. > > > > > > > > > Its great to know that Lalit ji is remembering all the > > things> > > > > > > > which i told on telephonic conversation. But Lalit Ji now > > i don,t> > > > > > > > have any affair and i hope that my marriage will be > > arranged one.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Kiran Ji, > > > > > > > > > I read your analysis and want to know you something. > > Between> > > > 2000-> > > > > > > > 2003, i was going through Rahu MD and Mercury AD, that > > period was> > > > > > > > very good to me and i was getting distinction in my > > education and> > > > > > > > doing even better that what i deserved. Mercury was giving > > me very> > > > > > > > good results. I don't know whether it was due to its > > placement in> > > > > > > 8th> > > > > > > > house(regarede as good placement for mercury in all astrology > > > > > > > books)> > > > > > > > or its parivartana with moon which gives unusual or unexpected> > > > > > > > results.> > > > > > > > > Even Rahu, Moon period is giving me better results > > > > professionally> > > > > > > > till date besides some minor problems.> > > > > > > > > I think dasa dependency and mere placement of planet doesn,t > > > > > > > > reveal all. Something more is to be find out through the > > composite> > > > > > > > study of chart with the hidden knowledge of astrology that is > > > > > > > > confined with some astrologers coming from the parampara.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Thanks & regards,> > > > > > > > > Anoop.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > "kiran.rama" wrote:> > > > > > > > > Dear Aveshji, > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > I checked the horoscope of anoop> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > He has dhanus ascendant > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > 10H Lord Mercury is in 8th house is not good placement> > > > > > > > > Mercury should give following results in his period: > > > > > > > > > * All efforts go waste> > > > > > > > > * Loss of name and fame - Disgrace> > > > > > > > > * Bad Life abroad - meaning staying in foreign land away > > > > from home> > > > > > > > > yearning to go home but job keeping one in foreign land> > > > > > > > > * Dangers etc> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To make matters worse, Rahu is in 10H and malefic Ketu is> > > > > > > aspecting> > > > > > > > > 10H by way of graha drishti and these malefics toegether > > > > will give> > > > > > > > > following results in their periods:> > > > > > > > > * Obstruction to profession/job> > > > > > > > > * Servants/Followers forsaking native: Bad time in job > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Using True Ayanamsa of Chandrahari started from the > > Moon, native> > > > > > > has> > > > > > > > > Rahu MD till 2010 July.> > > > > > > > > Jupiter MD starting after this will be good but Mercury AD> > > > between> > > > > > > > > 2015 Mar and 2017 Jun is likely to bring bad results > > > > signified by> > > > > > > > > Mercury above. Ketu following it is also not good> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > I am a learner in astrology and so forgive any gaps in my > > > > > > > > understanding> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Regards> > > > > > > > > Kiran> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vedic Astrologyandhealing , aavesh t> > > > > > > > > wrote:> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Dear Lalit,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have recieved this request for consultation.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Do you know this person ??.Could you give me a brief > > of his> > > > > > > > > background ??> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Based on your feedback I shall proceed in the matter > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Regards,> > > > > > > > > > aavesh> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > P.S:Pls give me your private email id (so that I can > > post such> > > > > > > > > messages directly to you) and not trouble the group members > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > anoop singh wrote:> > > > > > > > > > Respected Aavesh Ji > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > I came to know you from Lalit working in HCL.> > > > > > > > > > As i am facing some problem i am writing you personally. > > > > > > > > > > I faced lot of problem in my career. And After 3 > > changes in> > > > > > > > > company i have recently joined a company and hope for good > > > > future> > > > > > > > here.> > > > > > > > > > I had to face a failed affair though it was a long and > > deep> > > > > > > > > association. > > > > > > > > > > Now I am concerned about my marriage and marital life.> > > > > > > > > > When will i get married and how would be my wife and > > marital > > > > > > > life?> > > > > > > > > Please guide me.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > DOB: 12- July - 1978. > > > > > > > > > > TOB: 17:14> > > > > > > > > > POB: Gorakhpur(UP)(83 E 22, 26 N 45)> > > > > > > > > > Ascendant: Sagitarius(Dhanu)- Taurus Navamsa. > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Sir, Please consider my situation and guide me.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Thanks & regards, > > > > > > > > > > Anoop.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Never miss a thing. Make your homepage. > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > With Best Wishes,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > aavesh> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Forgot the famous last words? Access your message archive> > > > > > > online.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Never miss a thing. Make your homepage. > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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