Guest guest Posted September 21, 2009 Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 Dear Group Leaders,Kindly suggest me about the subject matter. Which Coordinates are to be used for casting the Horoscope and why?As i feel the Placidus system is based on Geographic Coordinates.Regards Dushyant Gautam India has a new look. Take a sneak peek. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 Hello Gautam, All the planets positions are calculated with respect to earth geocentric point & all the cusp also must be calculated based on the same earth Geocentric point only. The only change happens here is geocentric latitude due to earth shape & longitude remains same. Most of the house division including Placidus is based on earth Geocentric only.This topic was discussed many times in the forum please browse the old messages for more details. Hope the above clarifies your points. GOOD LUCK! D.Senthil--- On Sun, 9/20/09, dushyant gautam <dushyantgautam wrote: dushyant gautam <dushyantgautam Geographic or Geocentric Date: Sunday, September 20, 2009, 11:43 PM Dear Group Leaders, Kindly suggest me about the subject matter. Which Coordinates are to be used for casting the Horoscope and why? As i feel the Placidus system is based on Geographic Coordinates.RegardsDushyant Gautam India has a new look. Take a sneak peek. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 Abstracts from GEOGRAPHIC OR GEOCENTRIC.doc in the File section One may wonder if the Geocentric positions of all planets are used, why to use the Geographic latitude of birth place? The difference is that all planets are moving in the sky to measure from the center of earth but the birth place is located on earth at different levels from sea. Also N Blunsdon points out in " Low Thoughts on High Latitudes " that the angle, which determines the Ascendant, is much more accurately given by Geographic latitude than by Geocentric latitude. (Geoffrey Dean: Recent Advances in Natal Astrology) The maximum difference between Geocentric and Geographic latitudes is only about 11 minutes, not so much like in the case of Ayanamsa that it may not change the sub-lords and results of KP analysis, except in the border line case. I use and prefer the Geographic latitude as it is commonly used and well tested but I keep my mind open to experiment with the application of Geocentric latitude correction. , Senthil <athi_ram wrote: > > > Hello Gautam, > > All the planets positions are calculated with respect to earth geocentric point & all the cusp also must be calculated based on the same earth Geocentric point only. The only change happens here is geocentric latitude due to earth shape & longitude remains same. > > Most of the house division including Placidus is based on earth Geocentric only.This topic was discussed many times in the forum please browse the old messages for more details. > > Hope the above clarifies your points. > > > GOOD LUCK! > > D.Senthil > > --- On Sun, 9/20/09, dushyant gautam <dushyantgautam wrote: > > > dushyant gautam <dushyantgautam > Geographic or Geocentric > > Sunday, September 20, 2009, 11:43 PM > > > > Dear Group Leaders, > > > Kindly suggest me about the subject matter. Which Coordinates are to be used for casting the Horoscope and why? > > > As i feel the Placidus system is based on Geographic Coordinates. > > Regards > > Dushyant Gautam > > > > > India has a new look. Take a sneak peek. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 Dear Friends, 1. How could we understand the statements below? 1) " Most of the house division including Placidus is based on earth Geocentric only. " 2) " Geocentric Latitude is followed by all makers of TABLES OF HOUSES. " (Msg no. is available if necessary.) 2. Because in calculation of the Ascendant by any of the following Tables of Houses, 1) if the Geographic Latitude of place of birth from the atlas is used, it will give the Geographic Ascendant position; 2) if the Geocentric Latitude (converted from Geographic Latitude) is used, it will give the Geocentric Ascendant position. 3) the Ascendant position is the same by any house system. Raphael's Tables of Houses for Northern Latitudes from the equator to 50…by Raphael (First published in 1821) Dalton's Tables of Houses by Joseph Dalton (First published in 1893) Rosicrucian Tables of Houses (Placidus) by Rosicrucian Fellowship The Betz Placidus Tables of Houses by Martha & Keith Betz The Occidental Table of Houses: Campanus, Placidus, Regiomantanus (1976) Tables of Houses, Placidus System by Astro Numeric/AFA (1977) The Michelsen Book of Tables, Koch & Placidus by Neil F. Michelsen (1977) The Universal Tables of Houses by S. Balasundaram & A.R. Raichur (1985) Krishman Tables of Houses by K. Subramaniam (1986) Lahiri's Tables of Ascendants on Niryana Basis by NC Lahiri The Nirayana Tables of Houses by BV Raman & RV Vaidya 3. Almost the whole astrological world, East and West, has used the Geographic Latitude of place of birth. All astrological SWs except one are put on default setting of the Geographic Latitude. In none of Tables of Houses except one, it is not said to convert the Geographic Latitude of place of birth into the Geocentric Latitude in using them. The natives and most astrologers know only the Geographic Latitude of place of birth from the geographical atlas. In any of examples how to cast a natal chart from Leo Allen, Llewellyn George, Robert Hand, BV Raman, KS Krishnamurti, KS Charak, Umang Taneja etc it is not mentioned to convert the Geographic Latitude of place of birth into the Geocentric Latitude. 4. The application of he Geocentric Latitude of the place of birth is just a new interest of some astrologers. Thanks and regrds, TW , Senthil <athi_ram wrote: > > > Hello Gautam, > > All the planets positions are calculated with respect to earth geocentric point & all the cusp also must be calculated based on the same earth Geocentric point only. The only change happens here is geocentric latitude due to earth shape & longitude remains same. > > Most of the house division including Placidus is based on earth Geocentric only.This topic was discussed many times in the forum please browse the old messages for more details. > > Hope the above clarifies your points. > > > GOOD LUCK! > > D.Senthil > > --- On Sun, 9/20/09, dushyant gautam <dushyantgautam wrote: > > > dushyant gautam <dushyantgautam > Geographic or Geocentric > > Sunday, September 20, 2009, 11:43 PM > > > > Dear Group Leaders, > > > Kindly suggest me about the subject matter. Which Coordinates are to be used for casting the Horoscope and why? > > > As i feel the Placidus system is based on Geographic Coordinates. > > Regards > > Dushyant Gautam > > > > > India has a new look. Take a sneak peek. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 Dear TW, First scientifically (astronomically) we have to accept the concept of adopting which latitude is correct? I don't accept for use of Geographic latitude is accurate than Geocentric latitude though the difference is 11 min. Before we go into the sub lords we have to see how much is the variation in cupal degree. Whatever may be the value it will change the cusp degree position and sub lords for border case(so there is a change!!).If you have compared the cuspal degree any time by changing the Geocentric Vs Geographic latitudes of the place (particularly higher latitude say 50-66 deg.) may be presented to the forum for discussion. If not, request any of our forum members may to do the exercise (for range of latitude 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60) and submit it for discussion. Thanks D.Senthil --- On Tue, 9/22/09, TW <tw853 wrote: TW <tw853 Re: Geographic or Geocentric Tuesday, September 22, 2009, 11:24 AM Abstracts from GEOGRAPHIC OR GEOCENTRIC.doc in the File section One may wonder if the Geocentric positions of all planets are used, why to use the Geographic latitude of birth place? The difference is that all planets are moving in the sky to measure from the center of earth but the birth place is located on earth at different levels from sea. Also N Blunsdon points out in " Low Thoughts on High Latitudes " that the angle, which determines the Ascendant, is much more accurately given by Geographic latitude than by Geocentric latitude. (Geoffrey Dean: Recent Advances in Natal Astrology) The maximum difference between Geocentric and Geographic latitudes is only about 11 minutes, not so much like in the case of Ayanamsa that it may not change the sub-lords and results of KP analysis, except in the border line case. I use and prefer the Geographic latitude as it is commonly used and well tested but I keep my mind open to experiment with the application of Geocentric latitude correction. @gro ups.com, Senthil <athi_ram@.. .> wrote: > > > Hello Gautam, > > All the planets positions are calculated with respect to earth geocentric point & all the cusp also must be calculated based on the same earth Geocentric point only. The only change happens here is geocentric latitude due to earth shape & longitude remains same. > > Most of the house division including Placidus is based on earth Geocentric only.This topic was discussed many times in the forum please browse the old messages for more details. > > Hope the above clarifies your points. > > > GOOD LUCK! > > D.Senthil > > --- On Sun, 9/20/09, dushyant gautam <dushyantgautam@ ...> wrote: > > > dushyant gautam <dushyantgautam@ ...> > Geographic or Geocentric > @gro ups.com > Sunday, September 20, 2009, 11:43 PM > > > > Dear Group Leaders, > > > Kindly suggest me about the subject matter. Which Coordinates are to be used for casting the Horoscope and why? > > > As i feel the Placidus system is based on Geographic Coordinates. > > Regards > > Dushyant Gautam > > > > > India has a new look. Take a sneak peek. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 Dear TW, My point wise reply is given below. 1) if the Geographic Latitude of place of birth from the atlas is used, it will give the Geographic Ascendant position; REPLY: YES. You are correct. 2) if the Geocentric Latitude (converted from Geographic Latitude) is used, it will give the Geocentric Ascendant position. REPLY: YES. You are correct. 3) the Ascendant position is the same by any house system. Raphael's Tables of Houses for Northern Latitudes from the equator to 50…by Raphael (First published in 1821) Dalton's Tables of Houses by Joseph Dalton (First published in 1893) Rosicrucian Tables of Houses (Placidus) by Rosicrucian Fellowship The Betz Placidus Tables of Houses by Martha & Keith Betz The Occidental Table of Houses: Campanus, Placidus, Regiomantanus (1976) Tables of Houses, Placidus System by Astro Numeric/AFA (1977) The Michelsen Book of Tables, Koch & Placidus by Neil F. Michelsen (1977) The Universal Tables of Houses by S. Balasundaram & A.R. Raichur (1985) Krishman Tables of Houses by K. Subramaniam (1986) Lahiri's Tables of Ascendants on Niryana Basis by NC Lahiri The Nirayana Tables of Houses by BV Raman & RV Vaidya REPLY: NO. There is some house system which does not use SUN transit in the HORIZON (for example placidus system will not work for latitude beyond 66Deg 30min So one must use other house division method such as horizontal system etc ). For the systems which are using the sun Transit (Rise/set etc) as the base will give same result but not all the house division. I have done this exercise in the year 1999 and given to Late Prof.Balasundram (KSK’s son-in-law) for his review and he explained the same. 3. Almost the whole astrological world, East and West, has used the Geographic Latitude of place of birth. All astrological SWs except one are put on default setting of the Geographic Latitude. In none of Tables of Houses except one, it is not said to convert the Geographic Latitude of place of birth into the Geocentric Latitude in using them. The natives and most astrologers know only the Geographic Latitude of place of birth from the geographical atlas. In any of examples how to cast a natal chart from Leo Allen, Llewellyn George, Robert Hand, BV Raman, KS Krishnamurti, KS Charak, Umang Taneja etc it is not mentioned to convert the Geographic Latitude of place of birth into the Geocentric Latitude. REPLY: The astrologers who don’t know about the Geocentric Latitude are their ignorance or may be knowingly neglecting this small variation. Let us talk about scientifically/Astronomically. First scientifically (astronomically) we have to accept the concept of adopting which latitude is correct? As the planet positions are calculated based on earth Geocentric point, to have constancy the cusps must be calculated based on earth geocentric point. For this centre point obviously the Latitude will be geocentric only. 4. The application of he Geocentric Latitude of the place of birth is just a new interest of some astrologers. REPLY: NO. It is not the interest of astrologer. It is the development/knowledge of science only. Those days all the calculations are done manually and it is a time consuming activity. For example in those days (10 years ago) most time the astrologer may put latitude value for the places in TAMILNADU like TIRUPUR, AVANASI, POLLACHI,METTUPALAYAM as COIMBATORE only (which is 11deg and it is a round figure). Even if we refer our KP 6th reader most example chart uses only up to Degree, minute and seconds are missing. (But still by divine grace Prof. KSK was able to predict the events with that approximation itself. This is a different issue let us keep it aside.) Hence in those days most astrologers do manual calculation and they don’t go for this sort of rigorous calculation. But now a day we have computer/Google earth to calculate/locate the exact place for the horoscope. Hence I strongly believe that it is the development/knowledge of science only. Thanks and regards, D.Senthil --- On Tue, 9/22/09, TW <tw853 wrote: TW <tw853 Re: Geographic or Geocentric Date: Tuesday, September 22, 2009, 11:25 AM Dear Friends,1. How could we understand the statements below?1) "Most of the house division including Placidus is based on earth Geocentric only."2) "Geocentric Latitude is followed by all makers of TABLES OF HOUSES." (Msg no. is available if necessary.) 2. Because in calculation of the Ascendant by any of the following Tables of Houses, 1) if the Geographic Latitude of place of birth from the atlas is used, it will give the Geographic Ascendant position;2) if the Geocentric Latitude (converted from Geographic Latitude) is used, it will give the Geocentric Ascendant position.3) the Ascendant position is the same by any house system.Raphael's Tables of Houses for Northern Latitudes from the equator to 50…by Raphael (First published in 1821)Dalton's Tables of Houses by Joseph Dalton (First published in 1893) Rosicrucian Tables of Houses (Placidus) by Rosicrucian Fellowship The Betz Placidus Tables of Houses by Martha & Keith BetzThe Occidental Table of Houses: Campanus, Placidus, Regiomantanus (1976)Tables of Houses, Placidus System by Astro Numeric/AFA (1977)The Michelsen Book of Tables, Koch & Placidus by Neil F. Michelsen (1977)The Universal Tables of Houses by S. Balasundaram & A.R. Raichur (1985)Krishman Tables of Houses by K. Subramaniam (1986)Lahiri's Tables of Ascendants on Niryana Basis by NC LahiriThe Nirayana Tables of Houses by BV Raman & RV Vaidya3. Almost the whole astrological world, East and West, has used the Geographic Latitude of place of birth. All astrological SWs except one are put on default setting of the Geographic Latitude. In none of Tables of Houses except one, it is not said to convert the Geographic Latitude of place of birth into the Geocentric Latitude in using them. The natives and most astrologers know only the Geographic Latitude of place of birth from the geographical atlas. In any of examples how to cast a natal chart from Leo Allen, Llewellyn George, Robert Hand, BV Raman, KS Krishnamurti, KS Charak, Umang Taneja etc it is not mentioned to convert the Geographic Latitude of place of birth into the Geocentric Latitude.4. The application of he Geocentric Latitude of the place of birth is just a new interest of some astrologers.Thanks and regrds,TW@gro ups.com, Senthil <athi_ram@.. .> wrote:>> > Hello Gautam,> > All the planets positions are calculated with respect to earth geocentric point & all the cusp also must be calculated based on the same earth Geocentric point only. The only change happens here is geocentric latitude due to earth shape & longitude remains same.> > Most of the house division including Placidus is based on earth Geocentric only.This topic was discussed many times in the forum please browse the old messages for more details.> > Hope the above clarifies your points.> > > GOOD LUCK!> > D.Senthil> > --- On Sun, 9/20/09, dushyant gautam <dushyantgautam@ ...> wrote:> > > dushyant gautam <dushyantgautam@ ...>> Geographic or Geocentric> @gro ups.com> Sunday, September 20, 2009, 11:43 PM> > > > > > > > > > > Dear Group Leaders,> > > Kindly suggest me about the subject matter. Which Coordinates are to be used for casting the Horoscope and why?> > > As i feel the Placidus system is based on Geographic Coordinates.> > Regards> > Dushyant Gautam> > > > > India has a new look. Take a sneak peek.> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 Hello All, Conversion of geographic latitude is very simple, just multiply it by 0.99330546 For example: Geographic latitude of Chennai = 13 degree 04 minute Geocentric latitude of Chennai = (13 degree 04 minute) x 0.99330546 = 12 degree 59 minute Thanks,D K BhaskarMob.: 91-9910048040 "Only GOOD is not Enough, When you Dream of being GREAT."--- On Wed, 23/9/09, Senthil <athi_ram wrote: Senthil <athi_ramRe: Re: Geographic or Geocentric Cc: tw853, pandeypunitDate: Wednesday, 23 September, 2009, 7:35 AM Dear TW, My point wise reply is given below. 1) if the Geographic Latitude of place of birth from the atlas is used, it will give the Geographic Ascendant position; REPLY: YES. You are correct. 2) if the Geocentric Latitude (converted from Geographic Latitude) is used, it will give the Geocentric Ascendant position. REPLY: YES. You are correct. 3) the Ascendant position is the same by any house system. Raphael's Tables of Houses for Northern Latitudes from the equator to 50…by Raphael (First published in 1821) Dalton's Tables of Houses by Joseph Dalton (First published in 1893) Rosicrucian Tables of Houses (Placidus) by Rosicrucian Fellowship The Betz Placidus Tables of Houses by Martha & Keith Betz The Occidental Table of Houses: Campanus, Placidus, Regiomantanus (1976) Tables of Houses, Placidus System by Astro Numeric/AFA (1977) The Michelsen Book of Tables, Koch & Placidus by Neil F. Michelsen (1977) The Universal Tables of Houses by S. Balasundaram & A.R. Raichur (1985) Krishman Tables of Houses by K. Subramaniam (1986) Lahiri's Tables of Ascendants on Niryana Basis by NC Lahiri The Nirayana Tables of Houses by BV Raman & RV Vaidya REPLY: NO. There is some house system which does not use SUN transit in the HORIZON (for example placidus system will not work for latitude beyond 66Deg 30min So one must use other house division method such as horizontal system etc ). For the systems which are using the sun Transit (Rise/set etc) as the base will give same result but not all the house division. I have done this exercise in the year 1999 and given to Late Prof.Balasundram (KSK’s son-in-law) for his review and he explained the same. 3. Almost the whole astrological world, East and West, has used the Geographic Latitude of place of birth. All astrological SWs except one are put on default setting of the Geographic Latitude. In none of Tables of Houses except one, it is not said to convert the Geographic Latitude of place of birth into the Geocentric Latitude in using them. The natives and most astrologers know only the Geographic Latitude of place of birth from the geographical atlas. In any of examples how to cast a natal chart from Leo Allen, Llewellyn George, Robert Hand, BV Raman, KS Krishnamurti, KS Charak, Umang Taneja etc it is not mentioned to convert the Geographic Latitude of place of birth into the Geocentric Latitude. REPLY: The astrologers who don’t know about the Geocentric Latitude are their ignorance or may be knowingly neglecting this small variation. Let us talk about scientifically/ Astronomically. First scientifically (astronomically) we have to accept the concept of adopting which latitude is correct? As the planet positions are calculated based on earth Geocentric point, to have constancy the cusps must be calculated based on earth geocentric point. For this centre point obviously the Latitude will be geocentric only. 4. The application of he Geocentric Latitude of the place of birth is just a new interest of some astrologers. REPLY: NO. It is not the interest of astrologer. It is the development/ knowledge of science only. Those days all the calculations are done manually and it is a time consuming activity. For example in those days (10 years ago) most time the astrologer may put latitude value for the places in TAMILNADU like TIRUPUR, AVANASI, POLLACHI,METTUPALAY AM as COIMBATORE only (which is 11deg and it is a round figure). Even if we refer our KP 6th reader most example chart uses only up to Degree, minute and seconds are missing. (But still by divine grace Prof. KSK was able to predict the events with that approximation itself. This is a different issue let us keep it aside.) Hence in those days most astrologers do manual calculation and they don’t go for this sort of rigorous calculation. But now a day we have computer/Google earth to calculate/locate the exact place for the horoscope. Hence I strongly believe that it is the development/ knowledge of science only. Thanks and regards, D.Senthil --- On Tue, 9/22/09, TW <tw853 > wrote: TW <tw853 > Re: Geographic or Geocentric@gro ups.comTuesday, September 22, 2009, 11:25 AM Dear Friends,1. How could we understand the statements below?1) "Most of the house division including Placidus is based on earth Geocentric only."2) "Geocentric Latitude is followed by all makers of TABLES OF HOUSES." (Msg no. is available if necessary.) 2. Because in calculation of the Ascendant by any of the following Tables of Houses, 1) if the Geographic Latitude of place of birth from the atlas is used, it will give the Geographic Ascendant position;2) if the Geocentric Latitude (converted from Geographic Latitude) is used, it will give the Geocentric Ascendant position.3) the Ascendant position is the same by any house system.Raphael's Tables of Houses for Northern Latitudes from the equator to 50…by Raphael (First published in 1821)Dalton's Tables of Houses by Joseph Dalton (First published in 1893) Rosicrucian Tables of Houses (Placidus) by Rosicrucian Fellowship The Betz Placidus Tables of Houses by Martha & Keith BetzThe Occidental Table of Houses: Campanus, Placidus, Regiomantanus (1976)Tables of Houses, Placidus System by Astro Numeric/AFA (1977)The Michelsen Book of Tables, Koch & Placidus by Neil F. Michelsen (1977)The Universal Tables of Houses by S. Balasundaram & A.R. Raichur (1985)Krishman Tables of Houses by K. Subramaniam (1986)Lahiri's Tables of Ascendants on Niryana Basis by NC LahiriThe Nirayana Tables of Houses by BV Raman & RV Vaidya3. Almost the whole astrological world, East and West, has used the Geographic Latitude of place of birth. All astrological SWs except one are put on default setting of the Geographic Latitude. In none of Tables of Houses except one, it is not said to convert the Geographic Latitude of place of birth into the Geocentric Latitude in using them. The natives and most astrologers know only the Geographic Latitude of place of birth from the geographical atlas. In any of examples how to cast a natal chart from Leo Allen, Llewellyn George, Robert Hand, BV Raman, KS Krishnamurti, KS Charak, Umang Taneja etc it is not mentioned to convert the Geographic Latitude of place of birth into the Geocentric Latitude.4. The application of he Geocentric Latitude of the place of birth is just a new interest of some astrologers.Thanks and regrds,TW@gro ups.com, Senthil <athi_ram@.. .> wrote:>> > Hello Gautam,> > All the planets positions are calculated with respect to earth geocentric point & all the cusp also must be calculated based on the same earth Geocentric point only. The only change happens here is geocentric latitude due to earth shape & longitude remains same.> > Most of the house division including Placidus is based on earth Geocentric only.This topic was discussed many times in the forum please browse the old messages for more details.> > Hope the above clarifies your points.> > > GOOD LUCK!> > D.Senthil> > --- On Sun, 9/20/09, dushyant gautam <dushyantgautam@ ...> wrote:> > > dushyant gautam <dushyantgautam@ ....>> Geographic or Geocentric> @gro ups.com> Sunday, September 20, 2009, 11:43 PM> > > > > > > > > > > Dear Group Leaders,> > > Kindly suggest me about the subject matter. Which Coordinates are to be used for casting the Horoscope and why?> > > As i feel the Placidus system is based on Geographic Coordinates.> > Regards> > Dushyant Gautam> > > > > India has a new look. Take a sneak peek.> Love Cricket? Check out live scores, photos, video highlights and more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 Dear learned members, If we use Google earth to pin point the Building ,even room can be,of birth place than we are on right track ? Thanks, M.S.Bohra , Senthil <athi_ram wrote: > > Dear TW, > My point wise reply is given below. > 1) if the Geographic Latitude of place of birth from the atlas is used, it will give the Geographic Ascendant position; > REPLY: YES. You are correct. > 2) if the Geocentric Latitude (converted from Geographic Latitude) is used, it will give the Geocentric Ascendant position. > REPLY: YES. You are correct. > 3) the Ascendant position is the same by any house system. > Raphael's Tables of Houses for Northern Latitudes from the equator to 50…by Raphael (First published in 1821) > Dalton's Tables of Houses by Joseph Dalton (First published in 1893) > Rosicrucian Tables of Houses (Placidus) by Rosicrucian Fellowship > The Betz Placidus Tables of Houses by Martha & Keith Betz > The Occidental Table of Houses: Campanus, Placidus, Regiomantanus (1976) > Tables of Houses, Placidus System by Astro Numeric/AFA (1977) > The Michelsen Book of Tables, Koch & Placidus by Neil F. Michelsen (1977) > The Universal Tables of Houses by S. Balasundaram & A.R. Raichur (1985) > Krishman Tables of Houses by K. Subramaniam (1986) > Lahiri's Tables of Ascendants on Niryana Basis by NC Lahiri > The Nirayana Tables of Houses by BV Raman & RV Vaidya >  > REPLY: NO. There is some house system which does not use SUN transit in the HORIZON (for example placidus system will not work for latitude beyond 66Deg 30min So one must use other  house division method such as horizontal system etc ). For the systems which are using the sun Transit (Rise/set etc) as the base will give same result but not all the house division. I have done this exercise in the year 1999 and given to Late Prof.Balasundram (KSK’s son-in-law) for his review and he explained the same. >  > 3. Almost the whole astrological world, East and West, has used the Geographic Latitude of place of birth. All astrological SWs except one are put on default setting of the Geographic Latitude. In none of Tables of Houses except one, it is not said to convert the Geographic Latitude of place of birth into the Geocentric Latitude in using them. The natives and most astrologers know only the Geographic Latitude of place of birth from the geographical atlas. In any of examples how to cast a natal chart from Leo Allen, Llewellyn George, Robert Hand, BV Raman, KS Krishnamurti, KS Charak, Umang Taneja etc it is not mentioned to convert the Geographic Latitude of place of birth into the Geocentric Latitude. > REPLY: > The astrologers who don’t know about the Geocentric Latitude are their ignorance or may be knowingly neglecting this small variation. Let us talk about scientifically/Astronomically. First scientifically (astronomically) we have to accept the concept of adopting which latitude is correct? > As the planet positions are calculated based on earth Geocentric point, to have constancy the cusps must be calculated based on earth geocentric point. For this centre point obviously the Latitude will be geocentric only. > 4. The application of he Geocentric Latitude of the place of birth is just a new interest of some astrologers. > REPLY: > NO. It is not the interest of astrologer. It is the development/knowledge of science only. Those days all the calculations are done manually and it is a time consuming activity. > For example in those days (10 years ago) most time the astrologer may put latitude value for the places in TAMILNADU like TIRUPUR, AVANASI, POLLACHI,METTUPALAYAM  as COIMBATORE only (which is  11deg and it is a round figure). Even if we refer our KP 6th reader most example chart uses only up to Degree, minute and seconds are missing.  (But still by divine grace Prof. KSK was able to predict the events with that approximation itself. This is a different issue let us keep it aside.) > Hence in those days most astrologers do manual calculation and they don’t go for this sort of rigorous calculation. But now a day we have computer/Google earth to calculate/locate the exact place for the horoscope. Hence I strongly believe that it is the development/knowledge of science only. > Thanks and regards, > D.Senthil >  > > --- On Tue, 9/22/09, TW <tw853 wrote: > > > TW <tw853 > Re: Geographic or Geocentric > > Tuesday, September 22, 2009, 11:25 AM > > >  > > > > Dear Friends, > > 1. How could we understand the statements below? > > 1) " Most of the house division including Placidus is based on earth Geocentric only. " > 2) " Geocentric Latitude is followed by all makers of TABLES OF HOUSES. " (Msg no. is available if necessary.) > > 2. Because in calculation of the Ascendant by any of the following Tables of Houses, > > 1) if the Geographic Latitude of place of birth from the atlas is used, it will give the Geographic Ascendant position; > 2) if the Geocentric Latitude (converted from Geographic Latitude) is used, it will give the Geocentric Ascendant position. > 3) the Ascendant position is the same by any house system. > > Raphael's Tables of Houses for Northern Latitudes from the equator to 50…by Raphael (First published in 1821) > Dalton's Tables of Houses by Joseph Dalton (First published in 1893) > Rosicrucian Tables of Houses (Placidus) by Rosicrucian Fellowship > The Betz Placidus Tables of Houses by Martha & Keith Betz > The Occidental Table of Houses: Campanus, Placidus, Regiomantanus (1976) > Tables of Houses, Placidus System by Astro Numeric/AFA (1977) > The Michelsen Book of Tables, Koch & Placidus by Neil F. Michelsen (1977) > The Universal Tables of Houses by S. Balasundaram & A.R. Raichur (1985) > Krishman Tables of Houses by K. Subramaniam (1986) > Lahiri's Tables of Ascendants on Niryana Basis by NC Lahiri > The Nirayana Tables of Houses by BV Raman & RV Vaidya > > 3. Almost the whole astrological world, East and West, has used the Geographic Latitude of place of birth. All astrological SWs except one are put on default setting of the Geographic Latitude. In none of Tables of Houses except one, it is not said to convert the Geographic Latitude of place of birth into the Geocentric Latitude in using them. The natives and most astrologers know only the Geographic Latitude of place of birth from the geographical atlas. In any of examples how to cast a natal chart from Leo Allen, Llewellyn George, Robert Hand, BV Raman, KS Krishnamurti, KS Charak, Umang Taneja etc it is not mentioned to convert the Geographic Latitude of place of birth into the Geocentric Latitude. > > 4. The application of he Geocentric Latitude of the place of birth is just a new interest of some astrologers. > > Thanks and regrds, > TW > > @gro ups.com, Senthil <athi_ram@ .> wrote: > > > > > > Hello Gautam, > >  > > All the planets positions are calculated with respect to earth geocentric point & all the cusp also must be calculated based on the same earth Geocentric point only. The only change happens here is geocentric latitude due to earth shape & longitude remains same. > >  > > Most of the house division including Placidus is based on earth Geocentric only.This topic was discussed many times in the forum please browse the old messages for more details. > >  > > Hope the above clarifies your points. > > > >  > > GOOD LUCK! > >  > > D.Senthil > > > > --- On Sun, 9/20/09, dushyant gautam <dushyantgautam@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > dushyant gautam <dushyantgautam@ ...> > > Geographic or Geocentric > > @gro ups.com > > Sunday, September 20, 2009, 11:43 PM > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Group Leaders, > > > > > > Kindly suggest me about the subject matter. Which Coordinates are to be used for casting the Horoscope and why? > > > > > > As i feel the Placidus system is based on Geographic Coordinates. > > > > Regards > > > > Dushyant Gautam > > > > > > > > > > India has a new look. Take a sneak peek. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 Dear Senthil, 1. Let us say practically without the big words, scientifically (astronomically), without knowing how they are correctly applicable in this issue. 2. The issue is whether to use Geocentiric Latitude or not. 3. Accept or not accept is up to one's choice. 4. The fact is that almost the whole astrological world, East and West, has used the Geocentric Latitude and almost all astrological SWs are set to default for Geocentric Latitude. Is there any Vedic SW with Geocentric Latitude adjustment? How many SWs are set to default for Geocentric Latitude?. 5. The difference between the Geographic and Geocentric Latitudes can be seen easily from the Table: Geocentric Latitude Conversion Table.doc in the File section. Regards, TW , Senthil <athi_ram wrote: > > Dear TW, > > First scientifically (astronomically) we have to accept the concept of adopting which latitude is correct? I don't accept for use of Geographic latitude is accurate than Geocentric latitude though the difference is 11 min. Before we go into the sub lords we have to see how much is the variation in cupal degree. Whatever may be the value it will change the cusp degree position and sub lords for border case(so there is a change!!).If you have compared the cuspal degree any time by changing the Geocentric Vs Geographic latitudes of the place (particularly higher latitude say 50-66 deg.) may be presented to the forum for discussion. If not, request any of our forum members may to do the exercise (for range of latitude 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60) and submit it for discussion. > > Thanks > > D.Senthil > > > --- On Tue, 9/22/09, TW <tw853 wrote: > > > TW <tw853 > Re: Geographic or Geocentric > > Tuesday, September 22, 2009, 11:24 AM > > > > > > > Abstracts from GEOGRAPHIC OR GEOCENTRIC.doc in the File section > > One may wonder if the Geocentric positions of all planets are used, why to use the Geographic latitude of birth place? The difference is that all planets are moving in the sky to measure from the center of earth but the birth place is located on earth at different levels from sea. Also N Blunsdon points out in " Low Thoughts on High Latitudes " that the angle, which determines the Ascendant, is much more accurately given by Geographic latitude than by Geocentric latitude. (Geoffrey Dean: Recent Advances in Natal Astrology) > > The maximum difference between Geocentric and Geographic latitudes is only about 11 minutes, not so much like in the case of Ayanamsa that it may not change the sub-lords and results of KP analysis, except in the border line case. I use and prefer the Geographic latitude as it is commonly used and well tested but I keep my mind open to experiment with the > application of Geocentric latitude correction. > > @gro ups.com, Senthil <athi_ram@ .> wrote: > > > > > > Hello Gautam, > > > > All the planets positions are calculated with respect to earth geocentric point & all the cusp also must be calculated based on the same earth Geocentric point only. The only change happens here is geocentric latitude due to earth shape & longitude remains same. > > > > Most of the house division including Placidus is based on earth Geocentric only.This topic was discussed many times in the forum please browse the old messages for more details. > > > > Hope the above clarifies your points. > > > > > > GOOD LUCK! > > > > > D.Senthil > > > > --- On Sun, 9/20/09, dushyant gautam <dushyantgautam@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > dushyant gautam <dushyantgautam@ ...> > > Geographic or Geocentric > > @gro ups.com > > Sunday, September 20, 2009, 11:43 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Group Leaders, > > > > > > Kindly suggest me about the subject matter. Which Coordinates are to be used for casting the Horoscope and why? > > > > > > As i feel the Placidus system is based on Geographic Coordinates. > > > > Regards > > > > Dushyant Gautam > > > > > > > > > > India > has a new look. Take a sneak peek. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 Dear Senthil, 1. If the Placidus TOB gives the Geographic Asc position for Geographic Latitude of place of birth, the Geocentric Asc position for Geocentric Latitude, the following statements do not seem making sense. > 1) " Most of the house division including Placidus is based on earth Geocentric only. " > 2) " Geocentric Latitude is followed by all makers of TABLES OF HOUSES. " 2. For the Indira Gandhi's birth details given below any of 14 commonly used house system in the Astrodienst (http://www.astro.com/) gives the Tropical Asc Le 20:05:15 and the same by any of 11 commonly used house system in J Hora. http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Gandhi%2C_Indira 3. A common practice in the astrological world, East and West, is that the planets flying in the sky are calculated from the center of earth (Geocentric) and the POB on earth ( not flying in the sky) is calculated from the surface of the earth (Geographic). 4. Advocating the Geocentric Latitude does not appear to be related to the development of computer science since it is very easy to make adjustment and already well known long ago. 5. I am sorry to say that only some KP astrologers are found actively advocating the Geocentric Latitude but not in the West or Vedic fields. 6. The KP Reader VI is a different story, which is Guruji KSK's brain child. There horary Asc is set by 1-249 subs and the Geocentric Latitude is nothing to do. Thanks and regards, TW , Senthil <athi_ram wrote: > > Dear TW, > My point wise reply is given below. > 1) if the Geographic Latitude of place of birth from the atlas is used, it will give the Geographic Ascendant position; > REPLY: YES. You are correct. > 2) if the Geocentric Latitude (converted from Geographic Latitude) is used, it will give the Geocentric Ascendant position. > REPLY: YES. You are correct. > 3) the Ascendant position is the same by any house system. > Raphael's Tables of Houses for Northern Latitudes from the equator to 50…by Raphael (First published in 1821) > Dalton's Tables of Houses by Joseph Dalton (First published in 1893) > Rosicrucian Tables of Houses (Placidus) by Rosicrucian Fellowship > The Betz Placidus Tables of Houses by Martha & Keith Betz > The Occidental Table of Houses: Campanus, Placidus, Regiomantanus (1976) > Tables of Houses, Placidus System by Astro Numeric/AFA (1977) > The Michelsen Book of Tables, Koch & Placidus by Neil F. Michelsen (1977) > The Universal Tables of Houses by S. Balasundaram & A.R. Raichur (1985) > Krishman Tables of Houses by K. Subramaniam (1986) > Lahiri's Tables of Ascendants on Niryana Basis by NC Lahiri > The Nirayana Tables of Houses by BV Raman & RV Vaidya >  > REPLY: NO. There is some house system which does not use SUN transit in the HORIZON (for example placidus system will not work for latitude beyond 66Deg 30min So one must use other  house division method such as horizontal system etc ). For the systems which are using the sun Transit (Rise/set etc) as the base will give same result but not all the house division. I have done this exercise in the year 1999 and given to Late Prof.Balasundram (KSK’s son-in-law) for his review and he explained the same. >  > 3. Almost the whole astrological world, East and West, has used the Geographic Latitude of place of birth. All astrological SWs except one are put on default setting of the Geographic Latitude. In none of Tables of Houses except one, it is not said to convert the Geographic Latitude of place of birth into the Geocentric Latitude in using them. The natives and most astrologers know only the Geographic Latitude of place of birth from the geographical atlas. In any of examples how to cast a natal chart from Leo Allen, Llewellyn George, Robert Hand, BV Raman, KS Krishnamurti, KS Charak, Umang Taneja etc it is not mentioned to convert the Geographic Latitude of place of birth into the Geocentric Latitude. > REPLY: > The astrologers who don’t know about the Geocentric Latitude are their ignorance or may be knowingly neglecting this small variation. Let us talk about scientifically/Astronomically. First scientifically (astronomically) we have to accept the concept of adopting which latitude is correct? > As the planet positions are calculated based on earth Geocentric point, to have constancy the cusps must be calculated based on earth geocentric point. For this centre point obviously the Latitude will be geocentric only. > 4. The application of he Geocentric Latitude of the place of birth is just a new interest of some astrologers. > REPLY: > NO. It is not the interest of astrologer. It is the development/knowledge of science only. Those days all the calculations are done manually and it is a time consuming activity. > For example in those days (10 years ago) most time the astrologer may put latitude value for the places in TAMILNADU like TIRUPUR, AVANASI, POLLACHI,METTUPALAYAM  as COIMBATORE only (which is  11deg and it is a round figure). Even if we refer our KP 6th reader most example chart uses only up to Degree, minute and seconds are missing.  (But still by divine grace Prof. KSK was able to predict the events with that approximation itself. This is a different issue let us keep it aside.) > Hence in those days most astrologers do manual calculation and they don’t go for this sort of rigorous calculation. But now a day we have computer/Google earth to calculate/locate the exact place for the horoscope. Hence I strongly believe that it is the development/knowledge of science only. > Thanks and regards, > D.Senthil >  > > --- On Tue, 9/22/09, TW <tw853 wrote: > > > TW <tw853 > Re: Geographic or Geocentric > > Tuesday, September 22, 2009, 11:25 AM > > >  > > > > Dear Friends, > > 1. How could we understand the statements below? > > 1) " Most of the house division including Placidus is based on earth Geocentric only. " > 2) " Geocentric Latitude is followed by all makers of TABLES OF HOUSES. " (Msg no. is available if necessary.) > > 2. Because in calculation of the Ascendant by any of the following Tables of Houses, > > 1) if the Geographic Latitude of place of birth from the atlas is used, it will give the Geographic Ascendant position; > 2) if the Geocentric Latitude (converted from Geographic Latitude) is used, it will give the Geocentric Ascendant position. > 3) the Ascendant position is the same by any house system. > > Raphael's Tables of Houses for Northern Latitudes from the equator to 50…by Raphael (First published in 1821) > Dalton's Tables of Houses by Joseph Dalton (First published in 1893) > Rosicrucian Tables of Houses (Placidus) by Rosicrucian Fellowship > The Betz Placidus Tables of Houses by Martha & Keith Betz > The Occidental Table of Houses: Campanus, Placidus, Regiomantanus (1976) > Tables of Houses, Placidus System by Astro Numeric/AFA (1977) > The Michelsen Book of Tables, Koch & Placidus by Neil F. Michelsen (1977) > The Universal Tables of Houses by S. Balasundaram & A.R. Raichur (1985) > Krishman Tables of Houses by K. Subramaniam (1986) > Lahiri's Tables of Ascendants on Niryana Basis by NC Lahiri > The Nirayana Tables of Houses by BV Raman & RV Vaidya > > 3. Almost the whole astrological world, East and West, has used the Geographic Latitude of place of birth. All astrological SWs except one are put on default setting of the Geographic Latitude. In none of Tables of Houses except one, it is not said to convert the Geographic Latitude of place of birth into the Geocentric Latitude in using them. The natives and most astrologers know only the Geographic Latitude of place of birth from the geographical atlas. In any of examples how to cast a natal chart from Leo Allen, Llewellyn George, Robert Hand, BV Raman, KS Krishnamurti, KS Charak, Umang Taneja etc it is not mentioned to convert the Geographic Latitude of place of birth into the Geocentric Latitude. > > 4. The application of he Geocentric Latitude of the place of birth is just a new interest of some astrologers. > > Thanks and regrds, > TW > > @gro ups.com, Senthil <athi_ram@ .> wrote: > > > > > > Hello Gautam, > >  > > All the planets positions are calculated with respect to earth geocentric point & all the cusp also must be calculated based on the same earth Geocentric point only. The only change happens here is geocentric latitude due to earth shape & longitude remains same. > >  > > Most of the house division including Placidus is based on earth Geocentric only.This topic was discussed many times in the forum please browse the old messages for more details. > >  > > Hope the above clarifies your points. > > > >  > > GOOD LUCK! > >  > > D.Senthil > > > > --- On Sun, 9/20/09, dushyant gautam <dushyantgautam@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > dushyant gautam <dushyantgautam@ ...> > > Geographic or Geocentric > > @gro ups.com > > Sunday, September 20, 2009, 11:43 PM > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Group Leaders, > > > > > > Kindly suggest me about the subject matter. Which Coordinates are to be used for casting the Horoscope and why? > > > > > > As i feel the Placidus system is based on Geographic Coordinates. > > > > Regards > > > > Dushyant Gautam > > > > > > > > > > India has a new look. Take a sneak peek. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 Dear Bora, I have given the latest technology available at present. It is up to you to choose the required information. Thanks D.Senthil--- On Wed, 9/23/09, Sudan <msbohra62 wrote: Sudan <msbohra62 Re: Geographic or Geocentric Date: Wednesday, September 23, 2009, 1:58 AM Dear learned members,If we use Google earth to pin point the Building ,even room can be,of birth place than we are on right track ?Thanks,M.S.Bohra@gro ups.com, Senthil <athi_ram@.. .> wrote:>> Dear TW,> My point wise reply is given below.> 1) if the Geographic Latitude of place of birth from the atlas is used, it will give the Geographic Ascendant position;> REPLY: YES. You are correct.> 2) if the Geocentric Latitude (converted from Geographic Latitude) is used, it will give the Geocentric Ascendant position.> REPLY: YES. You are correct.> 3) the Ascendant position is the same by any house system.> Raphael's Tables of Houses for Northern Latitudes from the equator to 50…by Raphael (First published in 1821)> Dalton's Tables of Houses by Joseph Dalton (First published in 1893) > Rosicrucian Tables of Houses (Placidus) by Rosicrucian Fellowship > The Betz Placidus Tables of Houses by Martha & Keith Betz> The Occidental Table of Houses: Campanus, Placidus, Regiomantanus (1976)> Tables of Houses, Placidus System by Astro Numeric/AFA (1977)> The Michelsen Book of Tables, Koch & Placidus by Neil F. Michelsen (1977)> The Universal Tables of Houses by S. Balasundaram & A.R. Raichur (1985)> Krishman Tables of Houses by K. Subramaniam (1986)> Lahiri's Tables of Ascendants on Niryana Basis by NC Lahiri> The Nirayana Tables of Houses by BV Raman & RV Vaidya>  > REPLY: NO. There is some house system which does not use SUN transit in the HORIZON (for example placidus system will not work for latitude beyond 66Deg 30min So one must use other  house division method such as horizontal system etc ). For the systems which are using the sun Transit (Rise/set etc) as the base will give same result but not all the house division. I have done this exercise in the year 1999 and given to Late Prof.Balasundram (KSK’s son-in-law) for his review and he explained the same.>  > 3. Almost the whole astrological world, East and West, has used the Geographic Latitude of place of birth. All astrological SWs except one are put on default setting of the Geographic Latitude. In none of Tables of Houses except one, it is not said to convert the Geographic Latitude of place of birth into the Geocentric Latitude in using them. The natives and most astrologers know only the Geographic Latitude of place of birth from the geographical atlas. In any of examples how to cast a natal chart from Leo Allen, Llewellyn George, Robert Hand, BV Raman, KS Krishnamurti, KS Charak, Umang Taneja etc it is not mentioned to convert the Geographic Latitude of place of birth into the Geocentric Latitude.> REPLY:> The astrologers who don’t know about the Geocentric Latitude are their ignorance or may be knowingly neglecting this small variation. Let us talk about scientifically/ Astronomically. First scientifically (astronomically) we have to accept the concept of adopting which latitude is correct? > As the planet positions are calculated based on earth Geocentric point, to have constancy the cusps must be calculated based on earth geocentric point. For this centre point obviously the Latitude will be geocentric only.> 4. The application of he Geocentric Latitude of the place of birth is just a new interest of some astrologers.> REPLY:> NO. It is not the interest of astrologer. It is the development/ knowledge of science only. Those days all the calculations are done manually and it is a time consuming activity. > For example in those days (10 years ago) most time the astrologer may put latitude value for the places in TAMILNADU like TIRUPUR, AVANASI, POLLACHI,METTUPALAY AM  as COIMBATORE only (which is  11deg and it is a round figure). Even if we refer our KP 6th reader most example chart uses only up to Degree, minute and seconds are missing.  (But still by divine grace Prof. KSK was able to predict the events with that approximation itself. This is a different issue let us keep it aside.)> Hence in those days most astrologers do manual calculation and they don’t go for this sort of rigorous calculation. But now a day we have computer/Google earth to calculate/locate the exact place for the horoscope. Hence I strongly believe that it is the development/ knowledge of science only.> Thanks and regards,> D.Senthil>  > > --- On Tue, 9/22/09, TW <tw853 wrote:> > > TW <tw853> Re: Geographic or Geocentric> @gro ups.com> Tuesday, September 22, 2009, 11:25 AM> > >  > > > > Dear Friends,> > 1. How could we understand the statements below?> > 1) "Most of the house division including Placidus is based on earth Geocentric only."> 2) "Geocentric Latitude is followed by all makers of TABLES OF HOUSES." (Msg no. is available if necessary.) > > 2. Because in calculation of the Ascendant by any of the following Tables of Houses, > > 1) if the Geographic Latitude of place of birth from the atlas is used, it will give the Geographic Ascendant position;> 2) if the Geocentric Latitude (converted from Geographic Latitude) is used, it will give the Geocentric Ascendant position.> 3) the Ascendant position is the same by any house system.> > Raphael's Tables of Houses for Northern Latitudes from the equator to 50…by Raphael (First published in 1821)> Dalton's Tables of Houses by Joseph Dalton (First published in 1893) > Rosicrucian Tables of Houses (Placidus) by Rosicrucian Fellowship > The Betz Placidus Tables of Houses by Martha & Keith Betz> The Occidental Table of Houses: Campanus, Placidus, Regiomantanus (1976)> Tables of Houses, Placidus System by Astro Numeric/AFA (1977)> The Michelsen Book of Tables, Koch & Placidus by Neil F. Michelsen (1977)> The Universal Tables of Houses by S. Balasundaram & A.R. Raichur (1985)> Krishman Tables of Houses by K. Subramaniam (1986)> Lahiri's Tables of Ascendants on Niryana Basis by NC Lahiri> The Nirayana Tables of Houses by BV Raman & RV Vaidya> > 3. Almost the whole astrological world, East and West, has used the Geographic Latitude of place of birth. All astrological SWs except one are put on default setting of the Geographic Latitude. In none of Tables of Houses except one, it is not said to convert the Geographic Latitude of place of birth into the Geocentric Latitude in using them. The natives and most astrologers know only the Geographic Latitude of place of birth from the geographical atlas. In any of examples how to cast a natal chart from Leo Allen, Llewellyn George, Robert Hand, BV Raman, KS Krishnamurti, KS Charak, Umang Taneja etc it is not mentioned to convert the Geographic Latitude of place of birth into the Geocentric Latitude.> > 4. The application of he Geocentric Latitude of the place of birth is just a new interest of some astrologers.> > Thanks and regrds,> TW> > @gro ups.com, Senthil <athi_ram@ .> wrote:> >> > > > Hello Gautam,> >  > > All the planets positions are calculated with respect to earth geocentric point & all the cusp also must be calculated based on the same earth Geocentric point only. The only change happens here is geocentric latitude due to earth shape & longitude remains same.> >  > > Most of the house division including Placidus is based on earth Geocentric only.This topic was discussed many times in the forum please browse the old messages for more details.> >  > > Hope the above clarifies your points.> > > >  > > GOOD LUCK!> >  > > D.Senthil> > > > --- On Sun, 9/20/09, dushyant gautam <dushyantgautam@ ...> wrote:> > > > > > dushyant gautam <dushyantgautam@ ...>> > Geographic or Geocentric> > @gro ups.com> > Sunday, September 20, 2009, 11:43 PM> > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Group Leaders,> > > > > > Kindly suggest me about the subject matter. Which Coordinates are to be used for casting the Horoscope and why?> > > > > > As i feel the Placidus system is based on Geographic Coordinates.> > > > Regards> > > > Dushyant Gautam> > > > > > > > > > India has a new look. Take a sneak peek.> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 Dear Tin Win, I have given the reply(in RED color)/reason for your second message on the subject topic. Mr. Patil also has given the reason. It is upto you/members to accept/follow or reject it. Let us close this topic and there is no end to it. GOOD LUCK! D.Senthil --- On Wed, 9/23/09, TW <tw853 wrote: TW <tw853 Re: Geographic or Geocentric Date: Wednesday, September 23, 2009, 3:49 AM Dear Senthil,1. Let us say practically without the big words, scientifically (astronomically) , without knowing how they are correctly applicable in this issue. 2. The issue is whether to use Geocentiric Latitude or not. 3. Accept or not accept is up to one's choice. 4. The fact is that almost the whole astrological world, East and West, has used the Geocentric Latitude and almost all astrological SWs are set to default for Geocentric Latitude. Is there any Vedic SW with Geocentric Latitude adjustment? How many SWs are set to default for Geocentric Latitude?. 5. The difference between the Geographic and Geocentric Latitudes can be seen easily from the Table:Geocentric Latitude Conversion Table.doc in the File section.Regards,TW@gro ups.com, Senthil <athi_ram@.. .> wrote:>> Dear TW,> > First scientifically (astronomically) we have to accept the concept of adopting which latitude is correct? I don't accept for use of Geographic latitude is accurate than Geocentric latitude though the difference is 11 min. Before we go into the sub lords we have to see how much is the variation in cupal degree. Whatever may be the value it will change the cusp degree position and sub lords for border case(so there is a change!!).If you have compared the cuspal degree any time by changing the Geocentric Vs Geographic latitudes of the place (particularly higher latitude say 50-66 deg.) may be presented to the forum for discussion. If not, request any of our forum members may to do the exercise (for range of latitude 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60) and submit it for discussion.> > Thanks> > D.Senthil> > > --- On Tue, 9/22/09, TW <tw853 wrote:> > > TW <tw853> Re: Geographic or Geocentric> @gro ups.com> Tuesday, September 22, 2009, 11:24 AM> > > > > > > Abstracts from GEOGRAPHIC OR GEOCENTRIC.doc in the File section> > One may wonder if the Geocentric positions of all planets are used, why to use the Geographic latitude of birth place? The difference is that all planets are moving in the sky to measure from the center of earth but the birth place is located on earth at different levels from sea. Also N Blunsdon points out in "Low Thoughts on High Latitudes" that the angle, which determines the Ascendant, is much more accurately given by Geographic latitude than by Geocentric latitude. (Geoffrey Dean: Recent Advances in Natal Astrology)> > The maximum difference between Geocentric and Geographic latitudes is only about 11 minutes, not so much like in the case of Ayanamsa that it may not change the sub-lords and results of KP analysis, except in the border line case. I use and prefer the Geographic latitude as it is commonly used and well tested but I keep my mind open to experiment with the> application of Geocentric latitude correction.> > @gro ups.com, Senthil <athi_ram@ .> wrote:> >> > > > Hello Gautam,> > > > All the planets positions are calculated with respect to earth geocentric point & all the cusp also must be calculated based on the same earth Geocentric point only. The only change happens here is geocentric latitude due to earth shape & longitude remains same.> > > > Most of the house division including Placidus is based on earth Geocentric only.This topic was discussed many times in the forum please browse the old messages for more details.> > > > Hope the above clarifies your points.> > > > > > GOOD LUCK!> >> > > D.Senthil> > > > --- On Sun, 9/20/09, dushyant gautam <dushyantgautam@ ...> wrote:> > > > > > dushyant gautam <dushyantgautam@ ...>> > Geographic or Geocentric> > @gro ups.com> > Sunday, September 20, 2009, 11:43 PM> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Group Leaders,> > > > > > Kindly suggest me about the subject matter. Which Coordinates are to be used for casting the Horoscope and why?> > > > > > As i feel the Placidus system is based on Geographic Coordinates.> > > > Regards> > > > Dushyant Gautam> > > > > > > > > > India> has a new look. Take a sneak peek.> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 Dear Tin Win, I agree for the first point that the statement "Most of the house division including Placidus is based on earth geocentric only." is not correct. It is basically derived from spherical trigonometry only. Hence strictly speaking it is the sphere centre. This center is adjusted to account for the actual earth shape which is geocentric point. All your other points are noted and the let us close this topic. Thanks D.Senthil --- On Wed, 9/23/09, TW <tw853 wrote: TW <tw853 Re: Geographic or Geocentric Date: Wednesday, September 23, 2009, 5:24 AM Dear Senthil,1. If the Placidus TOB gives the Geographic Asc position for Geographic Latitude of place of birth, the Geocentric Asc position for Geocentric Latitude, the following statements do not seem making sense.> 1) "Most of the house division including Placidus is based on earth Geocentric only."> 2) "Geocentric Latitude is followed by all makers of TABLES OF HOUSES."2. For the Indira Gandhi's birth details given below any of 14 commonly used house system in the Astrodienst (http://www.astro. com/)gives the Tropical Asc Le 20:05:15 and the same by any of 11 commonly used house system in J Hora.http://www.astro. com/astro- databank/ Gandhi%2C_ Indira3. A common practice in the astrological world, East and West, is that the planets flying in the sky are calculated from the center of earth (Geocentric) and the POB on earth ( not flying in the sky) is calculated from the surface of the earth (Geographic) .4. Advocating the Geocentric Latitude does not appear to be related to the development of computer science since it is very easy to make adjustment and already well known long ago.5. I am sorry to say that only some KP astrologers are found actively advocating the Geocentric Latitude but not in the West or Vedic fields.6. The KP Reader VI is a different story, which is Guruji KSK's brain child. There horary Asc is set by 1-249 subs and the Geocentric Latitude is nothing to do. Thanks and regards,TW@gro ups.com, Senthil <athi_ram@.. .> wrote:>> Dear TW,> My point wise reply is given below.> 1) if the Geographic Latitude of place of birth from the atlas is used, it will give the Geographic Ascendant position;> REPLY: YES. You are correct.> 2) if the Geocentric Latitude (converted from Geographic Latitude) is used, it will give the Geocentric Ascendant position.> REPLY: YES. You are correct.> 3) the Ascendant position is the same by any house system.> Raphael's Tables of Houses for Northern Latitudes from the equator to 50…by Raphael (First published in 1821)> Dalton's Tables of Houses by Joseph Dalton (First published in 1893) > Rosicrucian Tables of Houses (Placidus) by Rosicrucian Fellowship > The Betz Placidus Tables of Houses by Martha & Keith Betz> The Occidental Table of Houses: Campanus, Placidus, Regiomantanus (1976)> Tables of Houses, Placidus System by Astro Numeric/AFA (1977)> The Michelsen Book of Tables, Koch & Placidus by Neil F. Michelsen (1977)> The Universal Tables of Houses by S. Balasundaram & A.R. Raichur (1985)> Krishman Tables of Houses by K. Subramaniam (1986)> Lahiri's Tables of Ascendants on Niryana Basis by NC Lahiri> The Nirayana Tables of Houses by BV Raman & RV Vaidya>  > REPLY: NO. There is some house system which does not use SUN transit in the HORIZON (for example placidus system will not work for latitude beyond 66Deg 30min So one must use other  house division method such as horizontal system etc ). For the systems which are using the sun Transit (Rise/set etc) as the base will give same result but not all the house division. I have done this exercise in the year 1999 and given to Late Prof.Balasundram (KSK’s son-in-law) for his review and he explained the same.>  > 3. Almost the whole astrological world, East and West, has used the Geographic Latitude of place of birth. All astrological SWs except one are put on default setting of the Geographic Latitude. In none of Tables of Houses except one, it is not said to convert the Geographic Latitude of place of birth into the Geocentric Latitude in using them. The natives and most astrologers know only the Geographic Latitude of place of birth from the geographical atlas. In any of examples how to cast a natal chart from Leo Allen, Llewellyn George, Robert Hand, BV Raman, KS Krishnamurti, KS Charak, Umang Taneja etc it is not mentioned to convert the Geographic Latitude of place of birth into the Geocentric Latitude.> REPLY:> The astrologers who don’t know about the Geocentric Latitude are their ignorance or may be knowingly neglecting this small variation. Let us talk about scientifically/ Astronomically. First scientifically (astronomically) we have to accept the concept of adopting which latitude is correct? > As the planet positions are calculated based on earth Geocentric point, to have constancy the cusps must be calculated based on earth geocentric point. For this centre point obviously the Latitude will be geocentric only.> 4. The application of he Geocentric Latitude of the place of birth is just a new interest of some astrologers.> REPLY:> NO. It is not the interest of astrologer. It is the development/ knowledge of science only. Those days all the calculations are done manually and it is a time consuming activity. > For example in those days (10 years ago) most time the astrologer may put latitude value for the places in TAMILNADU like TIRUPUR, AVANASI, POLLACHI,METTUPALAY AM  as COIMBATORE only (which is  11deg and it is a round figure). Even if we refer our KP 6th reader most example chart uses only up to Degree, minute and seconds are missing.  (But still by divine grace Prof. KSK was able to predict the events with that approximation itself. This is a different issue let us keep it aside.)> Hence in those days most astrologers do manual calculation and they don’t go for this sort of rigorous calculation. But now a day we have computer/Google earth to calculate/locate the exact place for the horoscope. Hence I strongly believe that it is the development/ knowledge of science only.> Thanks and regards,> D.Senthil>  > > --- On Tue, 9/22/09, TW <tw853 wrote:> > > TW <tw853> Re: Geographic or Geocentric> @gro ups.com> Tuesday, September 22, 2009, 11:25 AM> > >  > > > > Dear Friends,> > 1. How could we understand the statements below?> > 1) "Most of the house division including Placidus is based on earth Geocentric only."> 2) "Geocentric Latitude is followed by all makers of TABLES OF HOUSES." (Msg no. is available if necessary.) > > 2. Because in calculation of the Ascendant by any of the following Tables of Houses, > > 1) if the Geographic Latitude of place of birth from the atlas is used, it will give the Geographic Ascendant position;> 2) if the Geocentric Latitude (converted from Geographic Latitude) is used, it will give the Geocentric Ascendant position.> 3) the Ascendant position is the same by any house system.> > Raphael's Tables of Houses for Northern Latitudes from the equator to 50…by Raphael (First published in 1821)> Dalton's Tables of Houses by Joseph Dalton (First published in 1893) > Rosicrucian Tables of Houses (Placidus) by Rosicrucian Fellowship > The Betz Placidus Tables of Houses by Martha & Keith Betz> The Occidental Table of Houses: Campanus, Placidus, Regiomantanus (1976)> Tables of Houses, Placidus System by Astro Numeric/AFA (1977)> The Michelsen Book of Tables, Koch & Placidus by Neil F. Michelsen (1977)> The Universal Tables of Houses by S. Balasundaram & A.R. Raichur (1985)> Krishman Tables of Houses by K. Subramaniam (1986)> Lahiri's Tables of Ascendants on Niryana Basis by NC Lahiri> The Nirayana Tables of Houses by BV Raman & RV Vaidya> > 3. Almost the whole astrological world, East and West, has used the Geographic Latitude of place of birth. All astrological SWs except one are put on default setting of the Geographic Latitude. In none of Tables of Houses except one, it is not said to convert the Geographic Latitude of place of birth into the Geocentric Latitude in using them. The natives and most astrologers know only the Geographic Latitude of place of birth from the geographical atlas. In any of examples how to cast a natal chart from Leo Allen, Llewellyn George, Robert Hand, BV Raman, KS Krishnamurti, KS Charak, Umang Taneja etc it is not mentioned to convert the Geographic Latitude of place of birth into the Geocentric Latitude.> > 4. The application of he Geocentric Latitude of the place of birth is just a new interest of some astrologers.> > Thanks and regrds,> TW> > @gro ups.com, Senthil <athi_ram@ .> wrote:> >> > > > Hello Gautam,> >  > > All the planets positions are calculated with respect to earth geocentric point & all the cusp also must be calculated based on the same earth Geocentric point only. The only change happens here is geocentric latitude due to earth shape & longitude remains same.> >  > > Most of the house division including Placidus is based on earth Geocentric only.This topic was discussed many times in the forum please browse the old messages for more details.> >  > > Hope the above clarifies your points.> > > >  > > GOOD LUCK!> >  > > D.Senthil> > > > --- On Sun, 9/20/09, dushyant gautam <dushyantgautam@ ...> wrote:> > > > > > dushyant gautam <dushyantgautam@ ...>> > Geographic or Geocentric> > @gro ups.com> > Sunday, September 20, 2009, 11:43 PM> > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Group Leaders,> > > > > > Kindly suggest me about the subject matter. Which Coordinates are to be used for casting the Horoscope and why?> > > > > > As i feel the Placidus system is based on Geographic Coordinates.> > > > Regards> > > > Dushyant Gautam> > > > > > > > > > India has a new look. Take a sneak peek.> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 Dear Senthil, 1. Thank you for clearing my doubt. 2. So for Geographic cusp positions, it is to use the Geographic Latitude of POB from atlas in the calcutaion of cusps by using the Placidus Tables of Houses. 3. Only if Geocentric cusp positions are preferred, it is to use the Geocentric Latitude of POB converted from the Geographic Latitude of POB. 4. But it is not to use the converted Geocentric Latitude of POB every time as said in one of the Placidus Tables of Houses. Thanks and regards, TW , Senthil <athi_ram wrote: > > Dear Tin Win, >  > I agree for the first point that the statement " Most of the house division including Placidus is based on earth geocentric only. " is not correct. It is basically derived from spherical trigonometry only. Hence strictly speaking it is the sphere centre. This center is adjusted to account for the actual earth shape which is geocentric point. > All your other points are noted and the let us close this topic. >  > Thanks >  > D.Senthil > > > --- On Wed, 9/23/09, TW <tw853 wrote: > > > TW <tw853 > Re: Geographic or Geocentric > > Wednesday, September 23, 2009, 5:24 AM > > >  > > > > Dear Senthil, > > 1. If the Placidus TOB gives the Geographic Asc position for Geographic Latitude of place of birth, the Geocentric Asc position for Geocentric Latitude, the following statements do not seem making sense. > > 1) " Most of the house division including Placidus is based on earth Geocentric only. " > > 2) " Geocentric Latitude is followed by all makers of TABLES OF HOUSES. " > > 2. For the Indira Gandhi's birth details given below any of 14 commonly used house system in the Astrodienst (http://www.astro. com/) > gives the Tropical Asc Le 20:05:15 and the same by any of 11 commonly used house system in J Hora. > http://www.astro. com/astro- databank/ Gandhi%2C_ Indira > > 3. A common practice in the astrological world, East and West, is that the planets flying in the sky are calculated from the center of earth (Geocentric) and the POB on earth ( not flying in the sky) is calculated from the surface of the earth (Geographic) . > > 4. Advocating the Geocentric Latitude does not appear to be related to the development of computer science since it is very easy to make > adjustment and already well known long ago. > > 5. I am sorry to say that only some KP astrologers are found actively advocating the Geocentric Latitude but not in the West or Vedic fields. > > 6. The KP Reader VI is a different story, which is Guruji KSK's brain child. There horary Asc is set by 1-249 subs and the Geocentric Latitude is nothing to do. > > Thanks and regards, > TW > > @gro ups.com, Senthil <athi_ram@ .> wrote: > > > > Dear TW, > > My point wise reply is given below. > > 1) if the Geographic Latitude of place of birth from the atlas is used, it will give the Geographic Ascendant position; > > REPLY: YES. You are correct. > > 2) if the Geocentric Latitude (converted from Geographic Latitude) is used, it will give the Geocentric Ascendant position. > > REPLY: YES. You are correct. > > 3) the Ascendant position is the same by any house system. > > Raphael's Tables of Houses for Northern Latitudes from the equator to 50…by Raphael (First published in 1821) > > Dalton's Tables of Houses by Joseph Dalton (First published in 1893) > > Rosicrucian Tables of Houses (Placidus) by Rosicrucian Fellowship > > The Betz Placidus Tables of Houses by Martha & Keith Betz > > The Occidental Table of Houses: Campanus, Placidus, Regiomantanus (1976) > > Tables of Houses, Placidus System by Astro Numeric/AFA (1977) > > The Michelsen Book of Tables, Koch & Placidus by Neil F. Michelsen (1977) > > The Universal Tables of Houses by S. Balasundaram & A.R. Raichur (1985) > > Krishman Tables of Houses by K. Subramaniam (1986) > > Lahiri's Tables of Ascendants on Niryana Basis by NC Lahiri > > The Nirayana Tables of Houses by BV Raman & RV Vaidya > >  > > REPLY: NO. There is some house system which does not use SUN transit in the HORIZON (for example placidus system will not work for latitude beyond 66Deg 30min So one must use other  house division method such as horizontal system etc ). For the systems which are using the sun Transit (Rise/set etc) as the base will give same result but not all the house division. I have done this exercise in the year 1999 and given to Late Prof.Balasundram (KSK’s son-in-law) for his review and he explained the same. > >  > > 3. Almost the whole astrological world, East and West, has used the Geographic Latitude of place of birth. All astrological SWs except one are put on default setting of the Geographic Latitude. In none of Tables of Houses except one, it is not said to convert the Geographic Latitude of place of birth into the Geocentric Latitude in using them. The natives and most astrologers know only the Geographic Latitude of place of birth from the geographical atlas. In any of examples how to cast a natal chart from Leo Allen, Llewellyn George, Robert Hand, BV Raman, KS Krishnamurti, KS Charak, Umang Taneja etc it is not mentioned to convert the Geographic Latitude of place of birth into the Geocentric Latitude. > > REPLY: > > The astrologers who don’t know about the Geocentric Latitude are their ignorance or may be knowingly neglecting this small variation. Let us talk about scientifically/ Astronomically. First scientifically (astronomically) we have to accept the concept of adopting which latitude is correct? > > As the planet positions are calculated based on earth Geocentric point, to have constancy the cusps must be calculated based on earth geocentric point. For this centre point obviously the Latitude will be geocentric only. > > 4. The application of he Geocentric Latitude of the place of birth is just a new interest of some astrologers. > > REPLY: > > NO. It is not the interest of astrologer. It is the development/ knowledge of science only. Those days all the calculations are done manually and it is a time consuming activity. > > For example in those days (10 years ago) most time the astrologer may put latitude value for the places in TAMILNADU like TIRUPUR, AVANASI, POLLACHI,METTUPALAY AM  as COIMBATORE only (which is  11deg and it is a round figure). Even if we refer our KP 6th reader most example chart uses only up to Degree, minute and seconds are missing.  (But still by divine grace Prof. KSK was able to predict the events with that approximation itself. This is a different issue let us keep it aside.) > > Hence in those days most astrologers do manual calculation and they don’t go for this sort of rigorous calculation. But now a day we have computer/Google earth to calculate/locate the exact place for the horoscope. Hence I strongly believe that it is the development/ knowledge of science only. > > Thanks and regards, > > D.Senthil > >  > > > > --- On Tue, 9/22/09, TW <tw853@> wrote: > > > > > > TW <tw853@> > > Re: Geographic or Geocentric > > @gro ups.com > > Tuesday, September 22, 2009, 11:25 AM > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > Dear Friends, > > > > 1. How could we understand the statements below? > > > > 1) " Most of the house division including Placidus is based on earth Geocentric only. " > > 2) " Geocentric Latitude is followed by all makers of TABLES OF HOUSES. " (Msg no. is available if necessary.) > > > > 2. Because in calculation of the Ascendant by any of the following Tables of Houses, > > > > 1) if the Geographic Latitude of place of birth from the atlas is used, it will give the Geographic Ascendant position; > > 2) if the Geocentric Latitude (converted from Geographic Latitude) is used, it will give the Geocentric Ascendant position. > > 3) the Ascendant position is the same by any house system. > > > > Raphael's Tables of Houses for Northern Latitudes from the equator to 50…by Raphael (First published in 1821) > > Dalton's Tables of Houses by Joseph Dalton (First published in 1893) > > Rosicrucian Tables of Houses (Placidus) by Rosicrucian Fellowship > > The Betz Placidus Tables of Houses by Martha & Keith Betz > > The Occidental Table of Houses: Campanus, Placidus, Regiomantanus (1976) > > Tables of Houses, Placidus System by Astro Numeric/AFA (1977) > > The Michelsen Book of Tables, Koch & Placidus by Neil F. Michelsen (1977) > > The Universal Tables of Houses by S. Balasundaram & A.R. Raichur (1985) > > Krishman Tables of Houses by K. Subramaniam (1986) > > Lahiri's Tables of Ascendants on Niryana Basis by NC Lahiri > > The Nirayana Tables of Houses by BV Raman & RV Vaidya > > > > 3. Almost the whole astrological world, East and West, has used the Geographic Latitude of place of birth. All astrological SWs except one are put on default setting of the Geographic Latitude. In none of Tables of Houses except one, it is not said to convert the Geographic Latitude of place of birth into the Geocentric Latitude in using them. The natives and most astrologers know only the Geographic Latitude of place of birth from the geographical atlas. In any of examples how to cast a natal chart from Leo Allen, Llewellyn George, Robert Hand, BV Raman, KS Krishnamurti, KS Charak, Umang Taneja etc it is not mentioned to convert the Geographic Latitude of place of birth into the Geocentric Latitude. > > > > 4. The application of he Geocentric Latitude of the place of birth is just a new interest of some astrologers. > > > > Thanks and regrds, > > TW > > > > @gro ups.com, Senthil <athi_ram@ .> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hello Gautam, > > >  > > > All the planets positions are calculated with respect to earth geocentric point & all the cusp also must be calculated based on the same earth Geocentric point only. The only change happens here is geocentric latitude due to earth shape & longitude remains same. > > >  > > > Most of the house division including Placidus is based on earth Geocentric only.This topic was discussed many times in the forum please browse the old messages for more details. > > >  > > > Hope the above clarifies your points. > > > > > >  > > > GOOD LUCK! > > >  > > > D.Senthil > > > > > > --- On Sun, 9/20/09, dushyant gautam <dushyantgautam@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > dushyant gautam <dushyantgautam@ ...> > > > Geographic or Geocentric > > > @gro ups.com > > > Sunday, September 20, 2009, 11:43 PM > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Group Leaders, > > > > > > > > > Kindly suggest me about the subject matter. Which Coordinates are to be used for casting the Horoscope and why? > > > > > > > > > As i feel the Placidus system is based on Geographic Coordinates. > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > Dushyant Gautam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > India has a new look. Take a sneak peek. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2009 Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 Dear Sagar ji, 1. Do you want the Raphael's Tables of Houses for Northern Latitudes, From the Equator to 50 N 0 and for Leningrad 59 N 56, 104 pages for record or practical use? 2. For practical use it is only the history as the results are not accurate due to rounding of the values in those tables. For instance, for Example Chart-1, May 15, 1963, 12:05 PM IST, (-5:30), Ahmedabad, 72E37, 23N02, KPNA 23:15:20, Asc 114-44-38 by Raphael, 114-41-40 by UTOH/Michelsen, and 114-41-33 by KPAstro 3.1. (KP for Beginners: Part 1, KPE-zine Apr 2008) 3. If you want it seriously for record, let me try to send it to you as present, if I can make it within 20-25b. Regards, TW -- In , Sagar S <ssagar86 wrote: > > Hi > I am residing at Bangalore, i have tried to get Raphales Tables of Houses but in vain. > Where i will get it, if anybody have extra copy , can thery send it to me by VPP, i will pay the vpp and Book amount. > Thanks and Regards > Sahhasra Saagara > # 2940/A, First Cross, 2nd Stage, > " D " Block,Rajaji Nagara, Bangalore - 560 010 > Mobile_ 98440 07883 > > > > ________________________________ > VIJAYANAND PATIL <guide_vijayanand > > Cc: kdbhaskar7 > Wednesday, 23 September, 2009 4:29:34 PM > Re: Re: Re: Geographic or Geocentric > >  > Dear Dharmendra Kumarji, > Thanks for advising very simple method of conversion of geographic lat. to geocentric lat. Your method will be remembered forever and credit will goes to you only. Astrologers who may or may not follow the principle of conversion of geographic lat to geocentric lat, but it definately difers. The astrologers who use to use geocentric lat. will have definately better results. and though there may not be availbility of data of correctness of correct lat. it will not change the use of conversion of geographic lat to geocentric lat. > Thanks again > Vijayanand Patil, President, Astrovision, The Scientific Socy. for Research and Devt.in Astrology, Kolhapur,Maharashtr a, India > Cell NO. +91 9422582853/+ 91 9673746303 > write me to: guide_ vijayanand@ rediffmail. com > > On Wed, 23 Sep 2009 15:12:16 +0530 wrote > > Hello All,Conversion of geographic latitude is very simple, just multiply it by 0.99330546For example:Geographic latitude of Chennai = 13 degree 04 minuteGeocentric latitude of Chennai = (13 degree 04 minute) x 0.99330546 = 12 degree 59 minuteThanks, > >D K Bhaskar > >Mob.: 91-9910048040 > > > > " Only GOOD is not Enough, When you Dream of being GREAT. " > > > >--- On Wed, 23/9/09, Senthil wrote: > > > >Senthil > >Re: Re: Geographic or Geocentric > >@gro ups..com > >Cc: tw853 , pandeypunit@ > >Wednesday, 23 September, 2009, 7:35 AM > > > > Dear TW, My point wise reply is given below. 1) if the Geographic Latitude of place of birth from the atlas is used, it will give the Geographic Ascendant position; REPLY: YES. You are correct. 2) if the Geocentric Latitude (converted from Geographic Latitude) is used, it will give the Geocentric Ascendant position. REPLY: YES. You are correct. 3) the Ascendant position is the same by any house system. Raphael's Tables of Houses for Northern Latitudes from the equator to 50…by Raphael (First published in 1821) Dalton's Tables of Houses by Joseph Dalton (First published in 1893) Rosicrucian Tables of Houses (Placidus) by Rosicrucian Fellowship The Betz Placidus Tables of Houses by Martha Keith Betz The Occidental Table of Houses: Campanus, Placidus, Regiomantanus (1976) Tables of Houses, Placidus System by Astro Numeric/AFA (1977) The Michelsen Book of Tables, Koch Placidus by Neil F. Michelsen (1977) The Universal Tables of Houses by S. Balasundaram > A.R. Raichur (1985) Krishman Tables of Houses by K. Subramaniam (1986) Lahiri's Tables of Ascendants on Niryana Basis by NC Lahiri The Nirayana Tables of Houses by BV Raman RV Vaidya REPLY: NO. There is some house system which does not use SUN transit in the HORIZON (for example placidus system will not work for latitude beyond 66Deg 30min So one must use other house division method such as horizontal system etc ). For the systems which are using the sun Transit (Rise/set etc) as the base will give same result but not all the house division. I have done this exercise in the year 1999 and given to Late Prof.Balasundram (KSK’s son-in-law) for his review and he explained the same. 3. Almost the whole astrological world, East and West, has used the Geographic Latitude of place of birth. All astrological SWs except one are put on default setting of the Geographic Latitude. In none of Tables of Houses except one, it is not said to convert the Geographic > Latitude of place of birth into the Geocentric Latitude in using them. The natives and most astrologers know only the Geographic Latitude of place of birth from the geographical atlas. In any of examples how to cast a natal chart from Leo Allen, Llewellyn George, Robert Hand, BV Raman, KS Krishnamurti, KS Charak, Umang Taneja etc it is not mentioned to convert the Geographic Latitude of place of birth into the Geocentric Latitude. REPLY: The astrologers who don’t know about the Geocentric Latitude are their ignorance or may be knowingly neglecting this small variation. Let us talk about scientifically/ Astronomically. First scientifically (astronomically) we have to accept the concept of adopting which latitude is correct? As the planet positions are calculated based on earth Geocentric point, to have constancy the cusps must be calculated based on earth geocentric point. For this centre point obviously the Latitude will be geocentric only. 4. The > application of he Geocentric Latitude of the place of birth is just a new interest of some astrologers. REPLY: NO. It is not the interest of astrologer. It is the development/ knowledge of science only. Those days all the calculations are done manually and it is a time consuming activity. For example in those days (10 years ago) most time the astrologer may put latitude value for the places in TAMILNADU like TIRUPUR, AVANASI, POLLACHI,METTUPALAY AM as COIMBATORE only (which is 11deg and it is a round figure). Even if we refer our KP 6th reader most example chart uses only up to Degree, minute and seconds are missing. (But still by divine grace Prof. KSK was able to predict the events with that approximation itself. This is a different issue let us keep it aside.) Hence in those days most astrologers do manual calculation and they don’t go for this sort of rigorous calculation. But now a day we have computer/Google earth to calculate/locate the exact > place for the horoscope. Hence I strongly believe that it is the development/ knowledge of science only. Thanks and regards, D.Senthil > > > >--- On Tue, 9/22/09, TW wrote: > > > >TW > > Re: Geographic or Geocentric > >@gro ups.com > >Tuesday, September 22, 2009, 11:25 AM > > > > Dear Friends, > > > >1. How could we understand the statements below? > > > >1) " Most of the house division including Placidus is based on earth Geocentric only. " > >2) " Geocentric Latitude is followed by all makers of TABLES OF HOUSES. " (Msg no. is available if necessary.) > > > >2. Because in calculation of the Ascendant by any of the following Tables of Houses, > > > >1) if the Geographic Latitude of place of birth from the atlas is used, it will give the Geographic Ascendant position; > >2) if the Geocentric Latitude (converted from Geographic Latitude) is used, it will give the Geocentric Ascendant position. > >3) the Ascendant position is the same by any house system. > > > >Raphael's Tables of Houses for Northern Latitudes from the equator to 50…by Raphael (First published in 1821) > >Dalton's Tables of Houses by Joseph Dalton (First published in 1893) > >Rosicrucian Tables of Houses (Placidus) by Rosicrucian Fellowship > >The Betz Placidus Tables of Houses by Martha Keith Betz > >The Occidental Table of Houses: Campanus, Placidus, Regiomantanus (1976) > >Tables of Houses, Placidus System by Astro Numeric/AFA (1977) > >The Michelsen Book of Tables, Koch Placidus by Neil F. Michelsen (1977) > >The Universal Tables of Houses by S. Balasundaram A.R. Raichur (1985) > >Krishman Tables of Houses by K. Subramaniam (1986) > >Lahiri's Tables of Ascendants on Niryana Basis by NC Lahiri > >The Nirayana Tables of Houses by BV Raman RV Vaidya > > > >3. Almost the whole astrological world, East and West, has used the Geographic Latitude of place of birth. All astrological SWs except one are put on default setting of the Geographic Latitude. In none of Tables of Houses except one, it is not said to convert the Geographic Latitude of place of birth into the Geocentric Latitude in using them. The natives and most astrologers know only the Geographic Latitude of place of birth from the geographical atlas. In any of examples how to cast a natal chart from Leo Allen, Llewellyn George, Robert Hand, BV Raman, KS Krishnamurti, KS Charak, Umang Taneja etc it is not mentioned to convert the Geographic Latitude of place of birth into the Geocentric Latitude. > > > >4. The application of he Geocentric Latitude of the place of birth is just a new interest of some astrologers. > > > >Thanks and regrds, > >TW > > > >@gro ups.com, Senthil wrote: > >> > >> > >> Hello Gautam, > >> > >> All the planets positions are calculated with respect to earthgeocentric point all the cusp also must be calculatedbased onthe same earthGeocentric point only. The only change happens here is geocentric latitude due to earth shape longitude remains same. > >> > >> Most of the house division including Placidusis based on earth Geocentric only.This topic was discussed many times in the forum please browse the old messages for more details. > >> > >> Hope the above clarifies your points. > >> > >> > >> GOOD LUCK! > >> > >> D.Senthil > >> > >> --- On Sun, 9/20/09, dushyant gautam wrote: > >> > >> > >> dushyant gautam > >> Geographic or Geocentric > >> @gro ups.com > >> Sunday, September 20, 2009, 11:43 PM > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Dear Group Leaders, > >> > >> > >> Kindly suggest me about the subject matter. Which Coordinates are to be used for casting the Horoscope and why? > >> > >> > >> As i feel the Placidus system is based on Geographic Coordinates. > >> > >> Regards > >> > >> Dushyant Gautam > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> India has a new look. Take a sneak peek. > >> > > > > > > Love Cricket? Check out live scores, photos, video highlights and more. > > > > > Love Cricket? Check out live scores, photos, video highlights and more. Click here http://cricket. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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