Guest guest Posted March 14, 2008 Report Share Posted March 14, 2008 Dear Chandrashekarji and RKDa, Contributing my two cents to this serious discussion : The potential for Moksha in a chart is something which is a bit tricky. Ketu in the 12th in Meena Rasi indicates a native with such a potential as most Jyotish classics aver. The Karakamsha and placement of planets from Karakamsha provides vital clues to the potential of the soul and it's desires in this lifetime The strength of Surya and Chara Atmakarak and the yogas which the Chara Atmakaraka forms in the chart are also pointers to the level of attainment of the soul Regards, aavesh Chandrashekhar <sharma.chandrashekhar wrote: Dear R K da,I agree that pravrajya and Moksha trikona are certainly different and can not be mixed. One can take pravrajya and yet not attain moksha or one who does not take pravrajya can attain moksha. Again since every chart has all the 4 trikonas it is not necessary that everybody goes through the 4 Purusharthas. Whether they will or not will depend on the planetary configuration. I can see that as I was afraid, my too lengthy explanation did cause some confusion. My reference to visible to invisible half etc. relates to the fact that the moksha is attained only after one leaves this world and enters the invisible 1/8 part called Vasudeva or even the 3/4 part that is attainable to only a few, therefore this change from invisible to visible and vice-a-versa and also the soul's journey from the lokas where we reside, to when we are born on this earth, represented by 12th and 1st bhava becomes relevant to one's moksha.It is said that Ketu in 12th bhava, in Pisces in 12th bhava and /or in Pisces in 12th bhava of navamsha chart leads one to Moksha. However it is necessary to understand that the chart shows the potential of an individual due to his purva karma. Whether he will attain the full potential of the chart depends partially on his Kriyaman karma that he does in this life.I hope that this is somewhat clear now. These are difficult concepts to explain in written words and I trust that I have done the best that I can.Regards,Chandrashekhar.arkaydash wrote: Four Triads and a Fathom (To Shree Chandrashekhar) Dear Sir, Many such conceptual distinctions will have to be gone into as we try to understand the sage words of yore. And you have taken the pains to clear some of the fog around 4th. Happiness and delights are two separate things. I deliberately lumped them together to provke the sifting. May I add one crucial siginfication of 4th while we are at the mokshya triad. 4th denotes turya. You have already outlined some of the 'properties'. There may be more to fathom. The other point is that I feel like keeping the so-called pravajya yoga out of the purview of moksha discussion, because that doesn't help in understanding how men, unbeknown to the world, (many of them) hop from triad to triad (not necessarily one separate triad after another). These (few) men have their serious pursuit of what is held to be the last triad, without having four or more planetary clump in their chart, without leaving home and hearth, without becoming a dandi sanyasin or a kapali or an aghora. How, under what planetary situation in the chart, is moksha triggered? When are we to know the triad is active and not subsumed by the other triads, say, kama and artha trikonas -- which constitute the present-day accent on life. PutreshNa, lokeshNa, and bit of bhajan-kirtan in the evening of life. That is how the average 20th- and 21st-century man configures his life. So what do the planets do in the charts of the multitudes, what else do they do in the charts of the mumukshu? What gives man his mumuksha? Which planets, how? Such questions have to be taken up. Finally I would like you to tell me what you are driving at in this part of your post. Am I missing something? Can you please put it in some other ways so that I can get it. "... We should also understand that as we proceed from the 8th to the 7th bhava we leave the visible portion of the zodiac and enter the invisible half and as we leave the unrisen Lagna and proceed towards the 12th bhava we proceed from the invisible zodiac to the visible half. This is synonymous to our stages from the birth to death and death to birth and the connection with Moksha should be quite easy to see... " RK You are managing the Vedic Astrologyandhealing group through Grouply.You to individual emails for this group. | Update your Subscription settings2 messages in this conversation, including this one | Add a commentView this message on Grouply so you can rate, tag, bookmark, and see what others think about it. Finance It's Now Personal Guides, news, advice & more. Ads on Learn more now. Reach customers searching for you. Y! Messenger All together now Host a free online conference on IM. 5, 50, 500, 5000 - Store N number of mails in your inbox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 14, 2008 Report Share Posted March 14, 2008 Dear Aavesh, I know that there is a theory like this. The theory could also be right. My problem is ascribing a desire to Atma in that theory. Atma is unsullied by desire, it is the "Mana" (mind) that has desire. Assuming the Atma to have desire, and every Atma before birth has that desire according to scriptures, what is more important from an astrological point of view is whether there is the potential in the chart to support the attainment of this desire through Kriyaman karma in this life. At least this is how I would view the matter. Take care, Chandrashekhar. aavesh t wrote: Dear Chandrashekarji and RKDa, Contributing my two cents to this serious discussion : The potential for Moksha in a chart is something which is a bit tricky. Ketu in the 12th in Meena Rasi indicates a native with such a potential as most Jyotish classics aver. The Karakamsha and placement of planets from Karakamsha provides vital clues to the potential of the soul and it's desires in this lifetime The strength of Surya and Chara Atmakarak and the yogas which the Chara Atmakaraka forms in the chart are also pointers to the level of attainment of the soul Regards, aavesh Chandrashekhar <sharma.chandrashekhar > wrote: Dear R K da, I agree that pravrajya and Moksha trikona are certainly different and can not be mixed. One can take pravrajya and yet not attain moksha or one who does not take pravrajya can attain moksha. Again since every chart has all the 4 trikonas it is not necessary that everybody goes through the 4 Purusharthas. Whether they will or not will depend on the planetary configuration. I can see that as I was afraid, my too lengthy explanation did cause some confusion. My reference to visible to invisible half etc. relates to the fact that the moksha is attained only after one leaves this world and enters the invisible 1/8 part called Vasudeva or even the 3/4 part that is attainable to only a few, therefore this change from invisible to visible and vice-a-versa and also the soul's journey from the lokas where we reside, to when we are born on this earth, represented by 12th and 1st bhava becomes relevant to one's moksha. It is said that Ketu in 12th bhava, in Pisces in 12th bhava and /or in Pisces in 12th bhava of navamsha chart leads one to Moksha. However it is necessary to understand that the chart shows the potential of an individual due to his purva karma. Whether he will attain the full potential of the chart depends partially on his Kriyaman karma that he does in this life. I hope that this is somewhat clear now. These are difficult concepts to explain in written words and I trust that I have done the best that I can. Regards, Chandrashekhar. arkaydash wrote: Four Triads and a Fathom (To Shree Chandrashekhar) Dear Sir, Many such conceptual distinctions will have to be gone into as we try to understand the sage words of yore. And you have taken the pains to clear some of the fog around 4th. Happiness and delights are two separate things. I deliberately lumped them together to provke the sifting. May I add one crucial siginfication of 4th while we are at the mokshya triad. 4th denotes turya. You have already outlined some of the 'properties'. There may be more to fathom. The other point is that I feel like keeping the so-called pravajya yoga out of the purview of moksha discussion, because that doesn't help in understanding how men, unbeknown to the world, (many of them) hop from triad to triad (not necessarily one separate triad after another). These (few) men have their serious pursuit of what is held to be the last triad, without having four or more planetary clump in their chart, without leaving home and hearth, without becoming a dandi sanyasin or a kapali or an aghora. How, under what planetary situation in the chart, is moksha triggered? When are we to know the triad is active and not subsumed by the other triads, say, kama and artha trikonas -- which constitute the present-day accent on life. PutreshNa, lokeshNa, and bit of bhajan-kirtan in the evening of life. That is how the average 20th- and 21st-century man configures his life. So what do the planets do in the charts of the multitudes, what else do they do in the charts of the mumukshu? What gives man his mumuksha? Which planets, how? Such questions have to be taken up. Finally I would like you to tell me what you are driving at in this part of your post. Am I missing something? Can you please put it in some other ways so that I can get it. "... We should also understand that as we proceed from the 8th to the 7th bhava we leave the visible portion of the zodiac and enter the invisible half and as we leave the unrisen Lagna and proceed towards the 12th bhava we proceed from the invisible zodiac to the visible half. This is synonymous to our stages from the birth to death and death to birth and the connection with Moksha should be quite easy to see... " RK You are managing the Vedic Astrologyandhealing group through Grouply. You to individual emails for this group. | Update your Subscription settings 2 messages in this conversation, including this one | Add a comment View this message on Grouply so you can rate, tag, bookmark, and see what others think about it. Finance It's Now Personal Guides, news, advice & more. Ads on Learn more now. Reach customers searching for you. Y! Messenger All together now Host a free online conference on IM. 5, 50, 500, 5000 - Store N number of mails in your inbox. Click here. 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Guest guest Posted March 15, 2008 Report Share Posted March 15, 2008 Resp Chandrashekhar Ji and Gurus/Elders of the Group, Thanx a lot for pinpointing the Mokschha's potential in one's chart, most reverend astro personalities look only " Desire " in a chart, that one may have while taking the birth, they ignore the " karma " part of the chart that one is doing in this life to keep the mumukschha burning. keeping a mumukschha is so difficult, even when first time i tried to awaken myself for a mokschha, the beauty and business of the world started disappointing me for keeping such a desire. Having a desire can give one moksccha ? I m not sure coz, Mokschha means a state where no slavery of desires. So, where is the key, let's understand who doesn't have desires, the one who conquers the whole world, worldy affaires, that's why the sequence is - dharma, artha, kaama, mokschha. living by " dharma " will put his footseps in a path of life where he will earn " artha " in such a way that his kriyamaan karma will start giving him strength, he will be winner to relish all his kaamnas (Kaama), thus by achieving/winning all his desires when he finds himself on the top of the world, he can get his exit, the glorious exit " the mokschha " . I will tell what happened to me, I put my wish before the God and next moment i got afraid, I had some subtle wish to n'joy the illusions of the world, the Maya the Bhoga. God approved the wish, But i had no idea what's the real mokschha is, I knew only the term " Mokschha " and it's meaning, had no idea, no understanding, no insight what the Mokschha is, I knew Mokschha means leaving the world, the exilement, the 12'th house effect. I was a kid though had no great desire to entrap myself in the world, so, i thought a relaxing period of 1000 years are enough, a small mokschha for 1000 years, a short respite, HanumanJi approved that, He got ready to keep me along with him. Now, another twist of mind, why i want to get such a short respite, it's better to come to world on and off, when it's required to perform some " special tasks " . My mind still works, What special ? Why i think i will do special tasks, why nobody else will do such special tasks, Oh, this is a traping that most of the people in spirituality keeps within, so, u can see strong 11'th house, the house of gains, they relish different taste. And hathhaat, I get rid of it, the Special Taks is a task relevant to me in my individual world only, Being winner is being special, So, if I m a purusharthi, doing good karma, the 10'th house, i m making a base for my victories, and if there is a support from 9'th, 5'th and an inclination from 4'th and lagna is involved, I can conquer, I can reach the top of the world. Moksccha is exlusively for those who conquers, who are unbeatable by any storm. I have read somewhere if Rahu is placed next to a strong Jupitor, It helps getting all desires/ kaama fullfilled, gives detachment by cpontentment as one enjoyes everything, He is no more a slave of his kaamnaas. Jupitor will make him purushaarthi, the doer. So, I came back to Hanumanji, for the status of 1000 yrs, once in 1000 yrs, He is agreed... Who knows tomorrow i find myself on the top of the world, having momentum to get my exit, or not ? Let's see. regartds, Lalit. Vedic Astrologyandhealing , Chandrashekhar <sharma.chandrashekhar wrote: > > Dear Aavesh, > > I know that there is a theory like this. The theory could also be right. > > My problem is ascribing a desire to Atma in that theory. Atma is > unsullied by desire, it is the " Mana " (mind) that has desire. Assuming > the Atma to have desire, and every Atma before birth has that desire > according to scriptures, what is more important from an astrological > point of view is whether there is the potential in the chart to support > the attainment of this desire through Kriyaman karma in this life. At > least this is how I would view the matter. > > Take care, > Chandrashekhar. > > > > aavesh t wrote: > > Dear Chandrashekarji and RKDa, > > > > Contributing my two cents to this serious discussion : > > > > The potential for Moksha in a chart is something which is a bit tricky. > > Ketu in the 12th in Meena Rasi indicates a native with such a > > potential as most Jyotish classics aver. > > > > The Karakamsha and placement of planets from Karakamsha provides vital > > clues to the potential of the soul and it's desires in this lifetime > > > > The strength of Surya and Chara Atmakarak and the yogas which the > > Chara Atmakaraka forms in the chart are also pointers to the level of > > attainment of the soul > > > > Regards, > > > > aavesh > > > > > > > > > > */Chandrashekhar <sharma.chandrashekhar/* wrote: > > > > Dear R K da, > > > > I agree that pravrajya and Moksha trikona are certainly different > > and can not be mixed. One can take pravrajya and yet not attain > > moksha or one who does not take pravrajya can attain moksha. Again > > since every chart has all the 4 trikonas it is not necessary that > > everybody goes through the 4 Purusharthas. Whether they will or > > not will depend on the planetary configuration. > > > > I can see that as I was afraid, my too lengthy explanation did > > cause some confusion. My reference to visible to invisible half > > etc. relates to the fact that the moksha is attained only after > > one leaves this world and enters the invisible 1/8 part called > > Vasudeva or even the 3/4 part that is attainable to only a few, > > therefore this change from invisible to visible and vice-a- versa > > and also the soul's journey from the lokas where we reside, to > > when we are born on this earth, represented by 12th and 1st bhava > > becomes relevant to one's moksha. > > > > It is said that Ketu in 12th bhava, in Pisces in 12th bhava and > > /or in Pisces in 12th bhava of navamsha chart leads one to Moksha. > > However it is necessary to understand that the chart shows the > > potential of an individual due to his purva karma. Whether he will > > attain the full potential of the chart depends partially on his > > Kriyaman karma that he does in this life. > > > > I hope that this is somewhat clear now. These are difficult > > concepts to explain in written words and I trust that I have done > > the best that I can. > > > > Regards, > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > arkaydash wrote: > >> Four Triads and a Fathom > >> (To Shree Chandrashekhar) > >> Dear Sir, > >> Many such conceptual distinctions will have to be gone into as we > >> try to understand the sage words of yore. And you have taken the > >> pains to clear some of the fog around 4th. Happiness and delights > >> are two separate things. I deliberately lumped them together to > >> provke the sifting. > >> May I add one crucial siginfication of 4th while we are at the > >> /mokshya /triad. 4th denotes /turya/. You have already outlined > >> some of the 'properties'. There may be more to fathom. > >> The other point is that I feel like keeping the so-called > >> pravajya yoga out of the purview of moksha discussion, because > >> that doesn't help in understanding how men, unbeknown to the > >> world, (many of them) hop from triad to triad (not necessarily > >> one separate triad after another). These (few) men have their > >> serious pursuit of what is held to be the last triad, without > >> having four or more planetary clump in their chart, without > >> leaving home and hearth, without becoming a dandi sanyasin or a > >> kapali or an aghora. > >> How, under what planetary situation in the chart, is moksha > >> triggered? When are we to know the triad is active and not > >> subsumed by the other triads, say, kama and artha trikonas -- > >> which constitute the present-day accent on life. > >> PutreshNa, lokeshNa, and bit of bhajan-kirtan in the evening of > >> life. That is how the average 20th- and 21st-century man > >> configures his life. So what do the planets do in the charts of > >> the multitudes, what else do they do in the charts of the > >> mumukshu? What gives man his mumuksha? Which planets, how? Such > >> questions have to be taken up. > >> Finally I would like you to tell me what you are driving at in > >> this part of your post. Am I missing something? Can you please > >> put it in some other ways so that I can get it. > >> " ... We should also understand that as we proceed from the 8th to > >> the 7th bhava we leave the visible portion of the zodiac and > >> enter the invisible half and as we leave the unrisen Lagna and > >> proceed towards the 12th bhava we proceed from the invisible > >> zodiac to the visible half. This is synonymous to our stages from > >> the birth to death and death to birth and the connection with > >> Moksha should be quite easy to see... " > >> RK > > > > > > Grouply Groups <http://www.grouply.com/> > > You are managing the Vedic Astrologyandhealing group through Grouply. > > You to individual emails for this group. | Update your > > Subscription settings > > <http://www.grouply.com/settings.subscriptions.php> > > 2 messages in this conversation > > <http://www.grouply.com/ygroup.php/Vedic Astrologyandhealing/3729#3731> , > > including this one | Add a comment > > <http://www.grouply.com/ygroup.php/Vedic Astrologyandhealing/3729#AddCo mment> > > View this message on Grouply > > <http://www.grouply.com/ygroup.php/Vedic Astrologyandhealing/3731> > > so you can rate > > <http://www.grouply.com/ygroup.php/Vedic Astrologyandhealing/3731>, > > tag > > <http://www.grouply.com/bookmark.php/Vedic Astrologyandhealing/3731>, > > bookmark > > <http://www.gr% 20ouply.com/bookmark.php/Vedic Astrologyandhealing/3731>, > > and see what others think about it. > > Finance > > It's Now Personal > > <http://us.ard./SIG=13onmgpr1/M=493064.12016257.12445664.8674 578/D=groups/S=1705082690:NC/Y=/EXP=1205440829/L=/B=hwz.A0LaX.E- /J=1205433629370611/A=4507179/R=0/SIG=12de4rskk/*http://us.rd..co m/evt=50284/*http://finance./personal-finance> > > Guides, news, > > advice & more. > > Ads on > > Learn more now. > > <http://us.ard./SIG=13ob55orv/M=493064.12016308.12445700.8674 578/D=groups/S=1705082690:NC/Y=/EXP=1205440829/L=/B=iAz.A0LaX.E- /J=1205433629370611/A=3848643/R=0/SIG=131q47hek/*http://searchmarketin g./arp/srchv2.php? o=US2005 & cmp= & ctv=Groups4 & s=Y & s2= & s3= & b=50> > > Reach customers > > searching for you. > > Y! 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