a detour - 4'th/5'th and Education (Spare me the blackboard)

[Guest guest]

Dear Chandrashekharji, Lalit:

Lalit's efforts at understanding the concepts in this thread throw up one more side to the whole (re-)search (by Lalit). When he says: "What any good achievment in academic education", we have to take it as academic success/ grades and the likes.

These are time-bound, say up to 20-24 years of age in a person's life. Now even if houses like 4th, 5th, and 9th (as also 2nd and 3rd) are fortified/protected (by 'protected', I mean the aspect at least of a benefic, and I would include Venus too and/or guarded by its lord and/or karaka, including the aspect) a good run of time, say of about 8 years, has to be in operation towards the end of the aayu-khanda by way of dasa and major transits. Else, one may not register conspicuous success in academics.

Why 8 years?

The age of 16 to 24 years. Age of 15 or 16 when we first graduate from school, then 20 when we graduate from college and finally 22 or 24 when we enter univ or pursue specialisation etc. Thus from 15-16 to 23-24 is the crucial phase when a favourable period has to operate for one to shine. If a very good period is in progress during this ayu-khanda, someone may do very good, but his upper storey may still be as good as useless or filled with mere interior decorative pieces or ragged stuffing that doesn't enrich the rest of one's life after leaving college or univ.

The other picture, not exclusively other picture though, my dear Lalit, is vidya, learning, vidvattaa.

Now education. Getting an education is having a head start in the training in thinking, acquiring a certain degree of ability to make sense of the world and make the right choices in life. To the extent that it should serve as a passport to economic opportunity education is the stacking up of the levels of information and information use.

If someone has not shone on the marksheet, that does not mean their education was not distinguished or a good education was not received. Distinction is not within the purview of these houses per se (4th, 5th or 9th). For that 10th house linkages must be looked for. Lalit has not got his basic grasp of the reality right as yet. Academic achievement is chalk and vidya is cheese, (or vice versa depending on one's values). They look pretty alike. They needn't be divorced from each other though.

I can take up points from my horoscope if that will help him (Lalit) understand things. (I don't think it fit because I may not be the best judge.) A quick rundown of the houses I know to be relevant: 4th, 5th, 9th and 2nd, 3rd. My 2H is aspected by its lord, a benefic. 3H is aspected by Ju. 4H in its lord's charge, which as already known is Mc. 5H is in Jupiter's (karaka?) aspect. 9H is held by Jupiter. (There are positive interlinks among some of these houses too, and some of them have their share of reverses.) My Rahu dasa was in operation during this 8-year period. Rh is with a debilitated natural malefic. I don't know what the major transits were like in that period, as I was not into astrology then.

RK

Vedic Astrologyandhealing , Chandrashekhar <sharma.chandrashekhar wrote:>> Dear Lalit,> > I thought so. Anyway, Buddhi or Buddhi prabandhan can not be equated to > formal education, neither can Dhi. So the references tat you quote do > not seem to say that education is to be seen from the 5th. But if you > feel that you should take it as the house of formal education you are > free to do so. Only the sages do not seem to agree.> > I do not have chart of RK da to comment about his 4th bhava. But in case > of Vighnesh the 4th lord occupies the 8th bhava in both rasi and > Navamsha and Mercury is in Papakartari. So the 4th bhava is not as > strong as it should be. besides aspects of Jupiter and Mercury it also > receives the aspect of Mars and Jupiter the 4th lord itself is in aspect > of Saturn. However by not doing good education do you mean he had > obstacles in education or that he did not pursue post graduation (which > should be seen from the 5th as indicated by me) ?> > Take care,> Chandrashekhar.> > litsol wrote:> >> > Dear Sir,> >> > Like any science, astrology too evolved over the period and we see> > one concept after another for same thing till the establishment and> > maturity point.> >> > I have quoted shlokas from Bhava Kautuhalam, Shambu Hora, Phalit> > Martand.> >> > I m sorry for referring to two personal incidens but In RK Daa's> > chart, in the 4'th house, there is Mercury exalted, still he could> > not get any good achievment in academic education, in another group> > member, Vighnesh Ji's chart same Merc is exalted in 10'th thus> > aspecting 4'th prominantly still he could not do good in academic> > education.> >> > It's upto astrologer if they want to find right causes or not, even> > with wrong aproach and wrong concept sometimes one may get> > satisfactory justification but not always.> >> > If 4'th denotes education, I w'd have done very good in my Grad.> >> > It's vital to understand the potential and pattern of life through> > the chart. If 5'th is weak, there is no good potential, and during a> > bad dasha and transit, one can get obstacles and failures. This has> > no exception at all.> >> > regards,> > Lalit.> >> > Vedic Astrologyandhealing > > <Vedic Astrologyandhealing%40>, Chandrashekhar> > sharma.chandrashekhar@ wrote:> > >> > > Dear Lalit,> > >> > > I agree with RK da. Please give reference to the classic text from> > which> > > you give the shlokas. If one really wants o go to the classical> > > definitions verbatim, then only the 2nd is called Vidya bhava.> > Bhrigu> > > does refer to this being opinion of the learned and says that in> > his> > > opinion 4th is the house of academic education. Fifth he allots to> > > higher learning and wisdom, intelligence spiritual practices and> > so on.> > > Mantreshwar in Phaladeepika also indicates the 4th for education.> > So> > > many classics do mention the 4th being related to education.> > >> > > take care,> > > Chandrashekhar> > >> > >> > > litsol wrote:> > > >> > > > Dear RK Daa, Sri Chandrashekhar Ji, Nalini Ji and Group,> > > >> > > > I m surprised to see following is written by RK Daa, A conclusion> > > > which has no clear endorsement in a classics -> > > >> > > > A.) 5th can make for shrewdness even, when loaded, with strength> > > > from mixed kind (benefic and malefic). It gives ability to devise> > > > plans> > > >> > > > B.) The core vidya sthana is 4th house - Almost similar opinion> > is> > > > given by Sri Chandrashekhar Ji.> > > >> > > > I examined both the statements, Sorry, both needs serious review,> > > > however, It's true that confusion between 4'th with and 9'th with> > > > 10'th for some common significations is quite normal, Great BV> > Raman> > > > also could not reach any visible distinction, the answer lies in> > > > tradition, since cnturies such a tradition has been continued in> > > > several pockets of india, however, our classics are quite clear> > on> > > > primary and secondary kind of significations of the bhavas.> > > >> > > > To remove the doubt of members and to put an end to this> > confusion,> > > > which sometimes forces astrologer to stretch the basics to reach> > a> > > > justification, i m giving some shlokas of classics.> > > >> > > > 4'th is unaminously called "Turya Sthaana", "Mitra Alaya"> > or "Sukha> > > > Sthaana", The shloka is -> > > >> > > > Turyasthan Sanstham Phalam tat Vakscha-Sthaanam Purushanam> > Niruktam> > > > (Principles or Ethics expressed) !> > > > Amba (Mother) BandhuKchhoni Mitralayanam (Public Support by> > friends> > > > and relatives) Sarva Annanam (Food Grain, Yield of effort)GramYug> > > > Vahananaam (Land, Village, Vehicles).> > > >> > > > 5'th is unaminously called place for "Mati Prabandhaha" , "Budhi> > > > Prabandha" or Management of Mind and Intellect.> > > >> > > > The shloka goes -> > > >> > > > 1. Mati Prabandhaha Sutabhe Nijodaram (One's own Children),> > > > Vinaye(Modesty, Politeness)- Garbha-Sthiti, Mantra Sadhanam> > > > Modesty !!> > > >> > > > 2. Santan Garbha Sthitineeti Sanstha, Mantradi Siddhi Vinayash> > Vidya> > > > (Learning/Education), Buddhi Prabandhaha Sutabhe Vichintyam Etat> > annu> > > > JatakGyaha !!> > > >> > > > Now, where is the confusion, I think that was there because the> > 4'th> > > > denotes how u keep what u acquire, the immovables, so, the> > knowledge> > > > that you retain after studying a subject, is to be seen from the> > 4'th> > > > not the education, study or ur's learning itself.> > > >> > > > I w'd request RK Daa to review the 4'th house and education in> > his> > > > own case, Why this placement has not given you a bright academic> > > > education.> > > >> > > > Let's not misundersatand the primary and seconday significations.> > > >> > > > regards,> > > > Lalit.> > > >> > > > Vedic Astrologyandhealing > > <Vedic Astrologyandhealing%40>> > > > <Vedic Astrologyandhealing%40>, "arkaydash"> > > > <arkaydash@> wrote:> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Dear Nalini,> > > > >> > > > > Your 4th house is aspected by its lord. Strengthened. It is> > > > aspected by> > > > > Mercury, not by any other planet. Stenghtened and imbued with> > Mc,> > > > right?> > > > > Capable of quick learning. Mc in water sign. Intuitive.> > > > >> > > > > My understaning is that 4th speaks of how learned one is. If> > it is> > > > in> > > > > the care of its benefic lord and is by and large unsullied by> > > > malefic> > > > > impact, learning is assured. If the care is with Mc, have no> > doubt.> > > > Mc> > > > > as 4th lord ensures that the real wealth is his or her> > learning;> > > > other> > > > > tangible assets will gravitate in the goodness of time via> > Mercury's> > > > > prasaada (grants). As lagna lord in debility, Mc spells> > periods of> > > > > concern; when there is a bad run of dasa etc, health may not> > remain> > > > > unassailed. Your fluctuating academic performances have to be> > seen> > > > in> > > > > the context of the then operating dasa and transit. Transit of> > the> > > > Big> > > > > Two.> > > > >> > > > > Third house has to do with dexeterity, manual. The act of> > writing & > > > > > communication & retention (dhruti) thus also patience. Benefics> > > > there: a> > > > > person writes a good hand. His patience does not run out.> > > > >> > > > > The core vidya sthana is 4th house. With a strong, unalloyed> > 4th> > > > house,> > > > > one cannot command vidya. Neither 5th, nor 9th can compensate.> > 5th> > > > is> > > > > intelligence in the sense of discernement. 9th is the ability> > to> > > > process> > > > > ideas, abstaract systems. 5th can make for shrewdness even,> > when> > > > loaded> > > > > with strength from mixed kind (benefic and malefic). It gives> > > > ability to> > > > > devise plans.> > > > >> > > > > Well, 9th. Some other time.> > > > >> > > > > RK> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Vedic Astrologyandhealing > > <Vedic Astrologyandhealing%40>> > > > <Vedic Astrologyandhealing%40>, nalini swamy> > > > > <nalini2818@> wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > Respected Chandrasekhar ji, RK da,Lalit ji and others,> > > > > > Namaskar.> > > > > > When it comes to handwriting, a native's chart where Guru is> > in> > > > > makara, lagna with exalted Sukra and neecha Budha yuti in> > Meena.> > > > > > The native is left-handed when writing, eating with> > implements> > > > like> > > > > spoon, fork etc. Right-handed when it comes to using bare> > hands. The> > > > > handwriting is terrible too. Is it due to neecha 3rd lord? The> > 3rd> > > > house> > > > > here is not aspected by a malefic; Native dislikes writing,> > even> > > > > academic. Native has not done very well academically despite> > being> > > > very> > > > > intelligent as he does no like even to write the answers in> > full but> > > > > just enough to get him through.> > > > > > Now coming to academic excellence and grades, in my chart> > my 4th> > > > > bhava, Kanya, has Rahu. The LL and 4th lord are in Meena, deb,> > with> > > > Ketu> > > > > and enemy Chandra. In Navamnsha, Budha and Ketu occupy Karka,> > again> > > > to> > > > > do with Chandra in the 4th, and the lagna is Rishaba( yuti> > dwiguru).> > > > > > I have done extremely well in school, average in> > Intermediate and> > > > very> > > > > well in Graduation. Again average in Post-grad. I am now doing> > a> > > > > Bachelors and a post grad all over again... I am so> > facscinated by> > > > the> > > > > fact that the grades dont follow the pattern I mentioned> > earlier. I> > > > > started off very,very well and nose-dived in the 2nd year. A> > lot to> > > > do> > > > > with Gochara I suppose.> > > > > > I also do well in abstract concepts and writing, not very> > good in> > > > > science when it comes to grades. Even in Jyotish, I am helped> > more> > > > with> > > > > intuitive stuff rather than mere astro concepts which is also> > why I> > > > > hesitate to discuss charts (:> > > > > > Love to have your inputs,> > > > > > Nalini> > > > > >> > > > > > Â> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar sharma.chandrashekhar@> > > > > > Vedic Astrologyandhealing > > <Vedic Astrologyandhealing%40>> > > > <Vedic Astrologyandhealing%40>> > > > > > Friday, 13 June, 2008 5:50:13 AM> > > > > > Re: [Vedic Astrologyandhealing] Re: ShahJahan and> > > > AurangJeb -> > > > > AstroAnalysis (Related Q to Chandrashekarji)> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Dear Lalit,> > > > > >> > > > > > There is a difference between handwriting and Likhita vidya.> > It is> > > > > only in these days that even 3 year old are taught to write> > that> > > > too two> > > > > languages. Earlier till one attained 1st standard most of the> > > > teaching> > > > > was by making one memorize tables, shlokas and so on. With> > time the> > > > > definition of what is Maukhik, Likhita, learnt for getting> > Gyaan> > > > and so> > > > > on changes. I remember the times when those who had done> > > > Matriculation> > > > > were considered highly educated. These days it is not uncommon> > to> > > > see> > > > > even rickshaw-wallas being graduates or even post graduates.> > > > > >> > > > > > In your case did you notice that your 4th bhava is in> > Papakartari> > > > and> > > > > its lord Mercury is afflicted by Ketu occupying the rasi of its> > > > enemy> > > > > Moon and that of Jupiter in Navamsha?> > > > > >> > > > > > Think about this.> > > > > >> > > > > > Chandrashekhar.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > litsol wrote:> > > > > > Sri Chandrashekhar Ji and Our RK Da,> > > > > >> > > > > > I find it's important to mention that lekhan (writing) is> > more> > > > > > related to 3'rd house not the 4'th, I have seen dozens of the> > > > cases> > > > > > when 3rd is occupied by a malific (my own case) and if> > aspected> > > > by a> > > > > > malific (my 2 brother's case), one is not only poor in> > writing> > > > good> > > > > > stuff but his handwriting is also very very bad.> > > > > >> > > > > > Also exclusively 4'th can not be graduation, my 4'th house is> > > > > > occupied by Venus, aspected by Ju, I did very bad in my> > > > graduation,> > > > > > whereas in school and in my PG i did excellent.> > > > > >> > > > > > 5'th dominates in chart for the judgement of education.> > > > > >> > > > > > regards,> > > > > > Lalit> > > > > >> > > > > > Vedic Astrologyandhe aling@ s.com,> > Chandrashekhar> > > > > > <sharma.chandrashek har@ wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Dear RK da,> > > > > > >> > > > > > > I look to 2nd for education up to secondary level, 4th for> > > > > > graduation> > > > > > > and 5th for post graduation, 9th being the Doctoral or> > higher> > > > > > education.> > > > > > > Actually the 2nd is Maukhik (verbal) Vidya, 4th Likhita> > (written> > > > > > word)> > > > > > > vidya, 5th the Gyaan or acquired knowledge and 9th higher> > form> > > > of> > > > > > the> > > > > > > acquired knowledge. However we have to fit this in with the> > > > > > current> > > > > > > education pattern. May be if a person is doing Ph.D. only> > to get> > > > > > > University scales and not for any worthwhile research, we> > could> > > > > > look at> > > > > > > it in the 4th bhava.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Ketu does not become lord of the Bhavas, but in Vimshottari> > > > dashas> > > > > > he> > > > > > > does give results like that of Mars who in the instant case> > > > > > happens to> > > > > > > be Maraka, being 2nd and 7th lord. Since it also gives> > results> > > > of> > > > > > > Saturn, depending on transits, it can also give> > education , or> > > > > > progeny> > > > > > > depending on the person's age.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Regards,> > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > arkaydash wrote:> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekharji,> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Thanks. I would like to know how you read the graduation> > slab,> > > > > > which is> > > > > > > > neither higher education nor early education. Please> > tell.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Ketu giving Mars-like results is understandable but to my> > > > mind,> > > > > > not to> > > > > > > > the extent of replicating the lordship. Besides, it is> > not> > > > Aries> > > > > > and> > > > > > > > Scorpio assigned secondarily to Ketu that we can deduce> > that,> > > > is> > > > > > it? The> > > > > > > > reading on mother and domicile front may stick.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Maybe we can examine the 2nd and 7th lordship result of> > Ketu> > > > as> > > > > > its> > > > > > > > kuja-tulya phala after a look at the overall chart. I> > will> > > > post> > > > > > the> > > > > > > > chart soon.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > RK> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Vedic Astrologyandhe aling@ s.com> > > > > > > > <vedicastrol ogyandhealing% 40. com>,> > > > > > Chandrashekhar> > > > > > > > <sharma.chandrashek har@> wrote:> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Dear RK Da,> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > I could also indicate harm to mother or giving up> > > > motherland.> > > > > > It could> > > > > > > > > also indicate problems in graduation slab of education> > and> > > > > > even giving> > > > > > > > > up education at that time. Ketu would also give> > results of> > > > > > Saturn in> > > > > > > > its> > > > > > > > > dasha and being like Mars the 2nd and 7th lord could> > > > indicate> > > > > > problems> > > > > > > > > on marital front.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > arkaydash wrote:> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Chandrasekharji,> > > > > > > > > > What if Saturn and Ketu are in 4th hse? You have> > alluded> > > > to> > > > > > Kapata> > > > > > > > Yoga> > > > > > > > > > under Sat+Moon in 4th. Saturn+Ketu ipso facto> > constitutes> > > > > > saintly> > > > > > > > > > disposition if I correctly remember your observation> > at> > > > this> > > > > > forum.> > > > > > > > The> > > > > > > > > > sign in this case is Makara.> > > > > > > > > > RK> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Vedic Astrologyandhe aling@ s.com> > > > > > > > <vedicastrol ogyandhealing% 40. com>> > > > > > > > > > <vedicastrol ogyandhealing% 40.> > com>,> > > > > > Chandrashekhar> > > > > > > > > > sharma.chandrashekh ar@ wrote:> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lalit,> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Saturn- Moon in 4th could indicate an old large> > house> > > > and> > > > > > also the> > > > > > > > > > > possibility of a tendency of not speaking truth,> > > > > > necessarily. It> > > > > > > > could> > > > > > > > > > > also indicate a long lived mother. Saturn or Moon> > not> > > > > > aspecting> > > > > > > > the th> > > > > > > > > > > or 9th I do not think this could mean fanaticism.> > It is> > > > > > more the> > > > > > > > > > > Sun+mars combination that could sometimes indicate> > this> > > > > > tendency> > > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > > > > showing off his religion.> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > take care,> > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > litsol wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sir,> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Jupitor's presence has confused me too but Sat +> > Moon> > > > in> > > > > > 4'th> > > > > > > > house,> > > > > > > > > > > > and Jup affliction by Saturn's aspect on it, as> > well> > > > as> > > > > > Mars> > > > > > > > aspect> > > > > > > > > > > > on lagna gave me thoughts to put the chart in the> > > > group> > > > > > for a> > > > > > > > > > serious> > > > > > > > > > > > discussion.> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Will Sat + Moon combo in 4'th house make a person> > > > > > fanatic and> > > > > > > > > > > > barberic ?> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > regards,> > > > > > > > > > > > Lalit.> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Vedic Astrologyandhe aling@ s.com> > > > > > > > <vedicastrol ogyandhealing% 40. com>> > > > > > > > > > <vedicastrol ogyandhealing% 40.> > com>> > > > > > > > > > > > <vedicastrol ogyandhealing% 40.> > > > com>,> > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar> > > > > > > > > > > > sharma.chandrashekh ar@ wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lalit,> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Check your source. With Aquarius and Jupiter> > in the> > > > > > Lagna his> > > > > > > > > > > > history> > > > > > > > > > > > > does not suit the chart.> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > litsol wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Group and Elders,> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Shahjahanama, author Mulla Abdul Hamid> > Lahori> > > > has> > > > > > given> > > > > > > > some> > > > > > > > > > > > > > unorganised astro contents, they tell u> > planetary> > > > > > position> > > > > > > > at> > > > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > > > > > time of various events. Presenting Shahjahan> > and> > > > his> > > > > > bad son> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aurangjeb's available horoscopic details to> > have> > > > an> > > > > > > > > > > > > > study of their horoscopes, focusing on -> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. massive killing and oppression of> > siblings.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. enimical behavior with their fathers.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. barbaric nature (more in case of> > Aurangjeb)> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4. exploitation of women ( keeping hundreds> > of> > > > women> > > > > > in the> > > > > > > > > > fort)> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5. Aurangjeb's hate for music and dance> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6. religious fanatism> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > A ---> Aurangjeb> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dob : 03/11/1618> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tob : 20:05 (Acquarius Lagna, pls. check the> > > > time, m> > > > > > not> > > > > > > > sure)> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pob : somewhere in Gujrat.> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > The details i have are as follows -> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lagna : Aquarius - Jup> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4H : Sat + Moon> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6h : Ketu> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7H : Mars> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 9H : Sun + Merc> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 11H : Ven> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 12: Rahu> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > B.) And Shahjahan.> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh my god, i forgot to note down his birth> > > > details,> > > > > > any way> > > > > > > > > > > > reproducing> > > > > > > > > > > > > > his horoscope> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lagna : Aquarius> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2H : Mars> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4H: Sat + Rahu> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8H: Moon> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10H : Ju> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 11H : Sun + Ketu+Merc+Venus> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > He did a revolt against Father in> > Rahu/Moon/Mars> > > > but> > > > > > in> > > > > > > > > > Sani/Rahu> > > > > > > > > > > > All> > > > > > > > > > > > > > his sons were killed by Aurangjeb (another> > Son).> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Will give more details tomorrow.> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lalit> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends> > > > > http://au.messenger. <http://au.messenger.> > > <http://au.messenger. <http://au.messenger.>>> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> >> >>