Forgive 'em, Mother! (Sanjay Rath Vs Narsimha on Mantra Shastra)

[Guest guest]

Lalit,

 

As I have often lamented the emergence of such fatuous worthies as

21st-century scholars of Indian astrology, who have spread their

tentacles in India and abroad, this is unsurprising.

 

Sample:

 

" ...Well, you once taught that houses represent Sun/Shiva/truth and

arudhas

represent Moon/Gouri/perception. That was meaningful. Now, you

associated UL, an

arudha, with Sun and fire and 12th, a house, with Gouri and water. I

question

whether the new theory on fasting is really in line with everything you

have

learnt (and taught)... "

 

 

What learning and what teaching?

 

Such theoreticl filibustering has filled pages after hundreds of pages

brought out by publisher Sagar, bought once in a while by you, me and

many credulous astro-enthusiasts. There is no stopping the accretion of

dubious discourse that hits the eye here, there and almost everywhere:

from Sagar Publication to Saggitarius, from Vaani to Nishkam Peeth.

 

After 'Crux... Timing Events' we have another frumpy opus by way of

'Nakshatra' by Sanjay published by his own publication. Uh, what cheek,

and what chaos he has stacked diligently in that latest of nescience

tome.

 

May Sharada forgive her wayward children.

 

RK

 

 

 

 

Vedic Astrologyandhealing , " litsol "

<mishra.lalit wrote:

>

>

> Group,

>

> Read following and following, Sanjay Rath is no where in Mantra

Sadhana,

> only bookish knolwdge and Narsimha who also has very limited basic

> exposure to sacred flames of mantras, but see the degree of arguments,

> No body immersed in sadhana but runs towards book stores or safrom

clad

> well settled guruji's to find their own versions of this divine

> shastra.

>

> regards,

> Lalit.

>

>

------\

\

> ------------

>

> Dear Sanjay,

>

> > Since you do not have any real definition of Gandanta, I am dropping

> that

>

> I do have a definition of gandanta, which is Parasara's definition in

> BPHS.

>

> Since some of you are extrapolating it based on the fire embodied in

UL

> and

> water embodied in tithis, the onus is on you to outline and justify

your

> definition. I got into this thread because statements were made that

> fasting on

> particular weekdays or tithis in a chart can cause " insult to Vishnu " ,

> " serious

> doshas " and " danger to spouse " , based on these far-fetched

> extrapolations of

> gandanta.

>

> > Which is perfectly in line with everything I have learnt.

>

> Well, you once taught that houses represent Sun/Shiva/truth and

arudhas

> represent Moon/Gouri/perception. That was meaningful. Now, you

> associated UL, an

> arudha, with Sun and fire and 12th, a house, with Gouri and water. I

> question

> whether the new theory on fasting is really in line with everything

you

> have

> learnt (and taught).

>

> BTW, I specifically asked for a clarification on whether this was

based

> on your

> own thinking or from classics/parampara (see quoted mail below for the

> full

> context). Like so many times with similar questions I asked privately

> and

> recently publicly, you did not respond.

>

> * * *

>

> > Statement 1 is an arrogance that the entire Jyotisha shastra is

bogus

> > and has no relevance as the remedial measures prescribed by

> > Parasara and others to be done on specific days are irrlevant and

> > not of much consequence.

>

> First of all, Parasara did *not* prescribe fasting on specific

weekdays

> or

> tithis based on any arudhas or houses in a chart.

>

> For doshas in birth chart or to get relief from planetary afflictions

or

> to get

> the blessings of planets, he suggested various *homas* (fire rituals)

> and

> described how to perform them. His section on remedial measures is

full

> of

> various homas. I am not dismissing those remedies taught by Parasara

> himself and

> I am in fact slowly preparing manuals on them so that anybody can do

> them by

> themselves.

>

> Parasara did *not* specify the weekday or tithi for most of these

homas

> (e.g.

> planetary homas). Only for homas for specific birth doshas (e.g.

> Amavasya dosha

> or Moola dosha), he fixed the tithi or nakshatra based on the dosha

and

> the

> deity. But the days are not based on any house or arudha in the chart.

>

> Thus, the principles I am questioning are *not* from Parasara.

>

> Second, I said what I said in a *context*. People are mentioning

> complicated

> principles that are not found in classics or works of rishis and

scaring

> people

> that performing austerities such as fasting on certain days cause

> " danger to

> spouse " or " serious doshas " or " insult to Vishnu " , based on horoscope.

I

> find

> these principles illogical and based on hasty thinking. There may be a

> little

> difference between doing an austerity on different days, but my point

is

> that it

> is smaller compared to the difference between doing and not doing at

all

> and

> that doing it on a " wrong day " does not cause danger as being

suggested.

>

> Third, our shastras primarily talk about worshipping various deities

on

> various

> days, based on the energy of the *deity*. For worshipping a certain

> deity,

> certain tithi or weekday or nakshatra is better than others. This is

> based on

> the deity and irrespective of the person worshipping. Let me give an

> analogy. If

> a rich man comes out with more money to give to beggars on a specific

> day, a

> beggar is better off going and begging on that day. Schedule and mood

of

> the

> giver is more important.

>

> Choosing the day of a remedy based on the deity is more important and

> the

> variations based on individual horoscope are less important. I am not

> saying

> there are no horoscopic variations. But they are smaller and, more

> importantly,

> I question if they are actually well-understood by astrologers today

to

> apply

> *reliably*. I question over-emphasizing and over-selling unreliable

> principles

> of questionable origin and scaring people on that basis.

>

> * * *

>

> > Statement 2 is an arrogance that the entire mantra shastra is

useless

> > and the Rishi’s were wasting time in giving so many

> mantras for

> > the same devata, like say thousands of mantras for Vishnu or Hanuman

> > when any one mantra would suffice. OR it is like saying that we can

> > take paracetamol and pray that cancer is cured. I think I may have

to

> > write a book on Mantra Shastra to validate the teachings of the

vedic

> > seers.

>

> I did not say it is " useless " . Instead, I suggest that our ability to

> use it is

> limited and we should take our limitations into consideration.

>

> The universe has many lokas (planes of consciousness), many beings and

> many

> objects. There are infinite karmic interactions possible between them.

> Accordingly, there are infinite possible mantras. When one is able to

> perfectly

> control the mind and *fill it* with a mantra (i.e. no thoughts but the

> mantra

> reverberating in the mind constantly), then one experiences the

mantra.

> This

> perfect absorption of self-awareness in the mantra then causes

internal

> changes

> by the flow of energy internally in specific ways (specific to the

> mantra) and

> that causes corresponding external changes in the universe and

> corresponding

> karmic interactions between various objects.

>

> However, this variety of mantras, experiences and results is

irrelevant

> to one

> who does not have such perfect control over the mind to absorb the

mind

> fully in

> a mantra. It is relevant only to a seer whose self-awareness is quite

> evolved

> and hence control over mind impeccable. Such seers are extremely

> extremely rare

> today. Most people are unable to experience any mantra and mantras do

> not work

> for them as they are supposed to.

>

> * * *

>

> Just repeating a combination of sounds does not guarantee anything.

Some

> people

> may think that certain results come when they repeat a mantra certain

> number of

> times. That is an incorrect notion. A mantra may work for one person

> quickly and

> another may spend the whole life chanting it and nothing may happen.

> Absorption

> of the entire mind into a mantra is needed for a mantra to really work

> and it is

> much more difficult than one may think.

>

> * * *

>

> A highly learned scholar in the court of a king may be able to command

> the king

> and get whatever he wants from king. An incapable one is better off

> begging the

> king, rather than trying to command (and failing for sure).

>

> Similarly, most people are better off begging god for what they want

> rather than

> trying to use the right mantra to command what they want. A beggar

does

> not need

> a huge vocabulary or great scholarship or knowledge. Feeling of

humility

> and

> helplessness, surrender, patience and persistence are what help a

beggar

> succeed. A beggar needs the right attitude rather than knowledge. In

> this age

> and time, best bet for most people is to learn to be a good beggar at

> god's

> door.

>

> What people today need for material and spiritual progress through

> remedial

> measures is a better attitude in begging god rather than a better

choice

> of

> tools such as mantras and other specifics such as weekday, tithi etc

to

> command

> a specific result from god.

>

> It is worth noting that so many great spiritual teachers who came in

the

> last

> century or two did not emphasize picking the right mantra based on

> horoscope

> etc. Instead, they emphasized having the correct attitude - surrender,

> submission, devotion, patience, persistence, discipline, humility etc.

> *That* is

> a lot more important and useful than trying to be oversmart with the

> choice of

> mantra, day etc and impress god.

>

> * * *

>

> One more thing. We have many mantras given by rishis, but the

guidelines

> from

> rishis like Parasara on how to pick a mantra based on the horoscope

are

> very

> limited. Astrologers today do not operate solely based on them. They

use

> all

> kinds of other rules coming from various traditions. They are not free

> from

> corruption and imperfection. Most scriptures associate various mantras

> with

> various results, irrespective of horoscope. For example, irrespective

of

> who is

> the 6th lord and 8th lord and lord of A6 and A8, Rina Vimochaka

Angaraka

> mantra

> is good for debt control. And so on. Linking of horoscope is

overplayed

> by

> today's astrologers, way beyond the scope of Parasara's guidelines.

>

> If one has a sadguru, I recommend following the word of sadguru rather

> than that

> of an astrology theoretician.

>

> If not, there is no foolproof way to know the right path. Pick any

path

> (given

> by an astrologer or one that you feel attracted to) instead of wasting

> time and

> then keep working on your attitude. The latter is the key. As I said

> earlier,

> learn to be a humble beggar at god's door. Choice of Mantra is

secondary

> and

> attitude is primary. If you succeed in being a really humble beggar,

you

> stand a

> better chance of success than great scholars.

>

> Any prasiddha mantra (e.g. ashtakshari, panchakshari, dwadasakshari,

> navakshari,

> vishnu sahasranaam, rudram, hare krishna maha mantra, chandipath,

> ganapati

> atharva seersham, mrityunjaya mantra etc) can help one make progress

if

> one

> develops the right attitude. Without the right attitude, even an

> impeaccably

> picked mantra will do nothing.

>

> * * *

>

> I hope this sufficiently clarifies my stand. I discuss these matters

> related to

> spiritual sadhana more on the . Some writings

are

> sampled

> at http://www.vedicastrologer.org/homam/writings.htm.

> <http://www.vedicastrologer.org/homam/writings.htm.>

>

> Best regards,

> Narasimha

>

> Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam

> <http://www.vedicastrologer.org/homam>

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> <http://www.vedicastrologer.org/tarpana>

> Spirituality:

> <>

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> <http://www.vedicastrologer.org/>

> Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

> <http://www..org/>

>

>

> om paramesthi gurave namah

>

> Dear Narasimha,

>

> Since you do not have any real definition of Gandanta, I am dropping

> that and

> continue with my belief of the junction between Agni and Jala rasi as

> the case

> of gandanta and the loka junctions. Which is perfectly in line with

> everything I

> have learnt.

>

> Two statements you have made contradict standard texts on Jyotish and

> Mantra

> Shastra. Please correct me if I am not understanding you well out here

-

>

> 1. Statement 1: *fasting on any day or any tithi* is good so long as

the

> sankalpa has been made for the devata you intend to pray to. Results

> maybe a bit

> delayed but will be there.

> 2. Statement 2: *reciting any prayer* will give the desired effects

for

> any

> ailment we wish to remedy

>

> Is this what you intended to say or did I get this wrong?

>

> Statement 1 is an arrogance that the entire Jyotisha shastra is bogus

> and has

> no relevance as the remedial measures prescribed by Parasara and

others

> to be

> done on specific days are irrlevant and not of much consequence. This

> sounds

> like another astrologer I had known some time back whose statements

like

> this

> coerced me to write Vedic Remedies in Astrology so that people are not

> misled

> but such pretexts to knowledge.

>

> Statement 2 is an arrogance that the entire mantra shastra is useless

> and the

> Rishi’s were wasting time in giving so many mantras for

the

> same devata,

> like say thousands of mantras for Vishnu or Hanuman when any one

mantra

> would

> suffice. OR it is like saying that we can take paracetamol and pray

that

> cancer

> is cured. I think I may have to write a book on Mantra Shastra to

> validate the

> teachings of the vedic seers.

>

> I think there is something wrong in the way you are saying what you

want

> to

> say. Please rethink and correct your statements for the sake of good

> record in

> this list.

>

> With Warm Regards

> Sanjay Rath

> http://srath.com <http://srath.com/> http://sohamsa.com

> <http://sohamsa.com/> http://.org

> <http://.org/>

> 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi, 110060, India

>