Forgive 'em, Mother! (Sanjay Rath Vs Narsimha on Mantra Shastra)

[Guest guest]

RK Daa,

 

Will genius like you lament ? they are giving you opportunity to write

ur book.

 

regards,

Lalit.

 

Vedic Astrologyandhealing , " arkaydash "

<arkaydash wrote:

>

>

> Lalit,

>

> As I have often lamented the emergence of such fatuous worthies as

> 21st-century scholars of Indian astrology, who have spread their

> tentacles in India and abroad, this is unsurprising.

>

> Sample:

>

> " ...Well, you once taught that houses represent Sun/Shiva/truth and

> arudhas

> represent Moon/Gouri/perception. That was meaningful. Now, you

> associated UL, an

> arudha, with Sun and fire and 12th, a house, with Gouri and water. I

> question

> whether the new theory on fasting is really in line with everything

you

> have

> learnt (and taught)... "

>

>

> What learning and what teaching?

>

> Such theoreticl filibustering has filled pages after hundreds of

pages

> brought out by publisher Sagar, bought once in a while by you, me

and

> many credulous astro-enthusiasts. There is no stopping the accretion

of

> dubious discourse that hits the eye here, there and almost

everywhere:

> from Sagar Publication to Saggitarius, from Vaani to Nishkam Peeth.

>

> After 'Crux... Timing Events' we have another frumpy opus by way of

> 'Nakshatra' by Sanjay published by his own publication. Uh, what

cheek,

> and what chaos he has stacked diligently in that latest of nescience

> tome.

>

> May Sharada forgive her wayward children.

>

> RK

>

>

>

>

> Vedic Astrologyandhealing , " litsol "

> <mishra.lalit@> wrote:

> >

> >

> > Group,

> >

> > Read following and following, Sanjay Rath is no where in Mantra

> Sadhana,

> > only bookish knolwdge and Narsimha who also has very limited basic

> > exposure to sacred flames of mantras, but see the degree of

arguments,

> > No body immersed in sadhana but runs towards book stores or safrom

> clad

> > well settled guruji's to find their own versions of this divine

> > shastra.

> >

> > regards,

> > Lalit.

> >

> >

> --

----\

> \

> > ------------

> >

> > Dear Sanjay,

> >

> > > Since you do not have any real definition of Gandanta, I am

dropping

> > that

> >

> > I do have a definition of gandanta, which is Parasara's definition

in

> > BPHS.

> >

> > Since some of you are extrapolating it based on the fire embodied

in

> UL

> > and

> > water embodied in tithis, the onus is on you to outline and

justify

> your

> > definition. I got into this thread because statements were made

that

> > fasting on

> > particular weekdays or tithis in a chart can cause " insult to

Vishnu " ,

> > " serious

> > doshas " and " danger to spouse " , based on these far-fetched

> > extrapolations of

> > gandanta.

> >

> > > Which is perfectly in line with everything I have learnt.

> >

> > Well, you once taught that houses represent Sun/Shiva/truth and

> arudhas

> > represent Moon/Gouri/perception. That was meaningful. Now, you

> > associated UL, an

> > arudha, with Sun and fire and 12th, a house, with Gouri and water.

I

> > question

> > whether the new theory on fasting is really in line with

everything

> you

> > have

> > learnt (and taught).

> >

> > BTW, I specifically asked for a clarification on whether this was

> based

> > on your

> > own thinking or from classics/parampara (see quoted mail below for

the

> > full

> > context). Like so many times with similar questions I asked

privately

> > and

> > recently publicly, you did not respond.

> >

> > * * *

> >

> > > Statement 1 is an arrogance that the entire Jyotisha shastra is

> bogus

> > > and has no relevance as the remedial measures prescribed by

> > > Parasara and others to be done on specific days are irrlevant

and

> > > not of much consequence.

> >

> > First of all, Parasara did *not* prescribe fasting on specific

> weekdays

> > or

> > tithis based on any arudhas or houses in a chart.

> >

> > For doshas in birth chart or to get relief from planetary

afflictions

> or

> > to get

> > the blessings of planets, he suggested various *homas* (fire

rituals)

> > and

> > described how to perform them. His section on remedial measures is

> full

> > of

> > various homas. I am not dismissing those remedies taught by

Parasara

> > himself and

> > I am in fact slowly preparing manuals on them so that anybody can

do

> > them by

> > themselves.

> >

> > Parasara did *not* specify the weekday or tithi for most of these

> homas

> > (e.g.

> > planetary homas). Only for homas for specific birth doshas (e.g.

> > Amavasya dosha

> > or Moola dosha), he fixed the tithi or nakshatra based on the

dosha

> and

> > the

> > deity. But the days are not based on any house or arudha in the

chart.

> >

> > Thus, the principles I am questioning are *not* from Parasara.

> >

> > Second, I said what I said in a *context*. People are mentioning

> > complicated

> > principles that are not found in classics or works of rishis and

> scaring

> > people

> > that performing austerities such as fasting on certain days cause

> > " danger to

> > spouse " or " serious doshas " or " insult to Vishnu " , based on

horoscope.

> I

> > find

> > these principles illogical and based on hasty thinking. There may

be a

> > little

> > difference between doing an austerity on different days, but my

point

> is

> > that it

> > is smaller compared to the difference between doing and not doing

at

> all

> > and

> > that doing it on a " wrong day " does not cause danger as being

> suggested.

> >

> > Third, our shastras primarily talk about worshipping various

deities

> on

> > various

> > days, based on the energy of the *deity*. For worshipping a

certain

> > deity,

> > certain tithi or weekday or nakshatra is better than others. This

is

> > based on

> > the deity and irrespective of the person worshipping. Let me give

an

> > analogy. If

> > a rich man comes out with more money to give to beggars on a

specific

> > day, a

> > beggar is better off going and begging on that day. Schedule and

mood

> of

> > the

> > giver is more important.

> >

> > Choosing the day of a remedy based on the deity is more important

and

> > the

> > variations based on individual horoscope are less important. I am

not

> > saying

> > there are no horoscopic variations. But they are smaller and, more

> > importantly,

> > I question if they are actually well-understood by astrologers

today

> to

> > apply

> > *reliably*. I question over-emphasizing and over-selling

unreliable

> > principles

> > of questionable origin and scaring people on that basis.

> >

> > * * *

> >

> > > Statement 2 is an arrogance that the entire mantra shastra is

> useless

> > > and the Rishi’s were wasting time in giving so many

> > mantras for

> > > the same devata, like say thousands of mantras for Vishnu or

Hanuman

> > > when any one mantra would suffice. OR it is like saying that we

can

> > > take paracetamol and pray that cancer is cured. I think I may

have

> to

> > > write a book on Mantra Shastra to validate the teachings of the

> vedic

> > > seers.

> >

> > I did not say it is " useless " . Instead, I suggest that our ability

to

> > use it is

> > limited and we should take our limitations into consideration.

> >

> > The universe has many lokas (planes of consciousness), many beings

and

> > many

> > objects. There are infinite karmic interactions possible between

them.

> > Accordingly, there are infinite possible mantras. When one is able

to

> > perfectly

> > control the mind and *fill it* with a mantra (i.e. no thoughts but

the

> > mantra

> > reverberating in the mind constantly), then one experiences the

> mantra.

> > This

> > perfect absorption of self-awareness in the mantra then causes

> internal

> > changes

> > by the flow of energy internally in specific ways (specific to the

> > mantra) and

> > that causes corresponding external changes in the universe and

> > corresponding

> > karmic interactions between various objects.

> >

> > However, this variety of mantras, experiences and results is

> irrelevant

> > to one

> > who does not have such perfect control over the mind to absorb the

> mind

> > fully in

> > a mantra. It is relevant only to a seer whose self-awareness is

quite

> > evolved

> > and hence control over mind impeccable. Such seers are extremely

> > extremely rare

> > today. Most people are unable to experience any mantra and mantras

do

> > not work

> > for them as they are supposed to.

> >

> > * * *

> >

> > Just repeating a combination of sounds does not guarantee

anything.

> Some

> > people

> > may think that certain results come when they repeat a mantra

certain

> > number of

> > times. That is an incorrect notion. A mantra may work for one

person

> > quickly and

> > another may spend the whole life chanting it and nothing may

happen.

> > Absorption

> > of the entire mind into a mantra is needed for a mantra to really

work

> > and it is

> > much more difficult than one may think.

> >

> > * * *

> >

> > A highly learned scholar in the court of a king may be able to

command

> > the king

> > and get whatever he wants from king. An incapable one is better

off

> > begging the

> > king, rather than trying to command (and failing for sure).

> >

> > Similarly, most people are better off begging god for what they

want

> > rather than

> > trying to use the right mantra to command what they want. A beggar

> does

> > not need

> > a huge vocabulary or great scholarship or knowledge. Feeling of

> humility

> > and

> > helplessness, surrender, patience and persistence are what help a

> beggar

> > succeed. A beggar needs the right attitude rather than knowledge.

In

> > this age

> > and time, best bet for most people is to learn to be a good beggar

at

> > god's

> > door.

> >

> > What people today need for material and spiritual progress through

> > remedial

> > measures is a better attitude in begging god rather than a better

> choice

> > of

> > tools such as mantras and other specifics such as weekday, tithi

etc

> to

> > command

> > a specific result from god.

> >

> > It is worth noting that so many great spiritual teachers who came

in

> the

> > last

> > century or two did not emphasize picking the right mantra based on

> > horoscope

> > etc. Instead, they emphasized having the correct attitude -

surrender,

> > submission, devotion, patience, persistence, discipline, humility

etc.

> > *That* is

> > a lot more important and useful than trying to be oversmart with

the

> > choice of

> > mantra, day etc and impress god.

> >

> > * * *

> >

> > One more thing. We have many mantras given by rishis, but the

> guidelines

> > from

> > rishis like Parasara on how to pick a mantra based on the

horoscope

> are

> > very

> > limited. Astrologers today do not operate solely based on them.

They

> use

> > all

> > kinds of other rules coming from various traditions. They are not

free

> > from

> > corruption and imperfection. Most scriptures associate various

mantras

> > with

> > various results, irrespective of horoscope. For example,

irrespective

> of

> > who is

> > the 6th lord and 8th lord and lord of A6 and A8, Rina Vimochaka

> Angaraka

> > mantra

> > is good for debt control. And so on. Linking of horoscope is

> overplayed

> > by

> > today's astrologers, way beyond the scope of Parasara's

guidelines.

> >

> > If one has a sadguru, I recommend following the word of sadguru

rather

> > than that

> > of an astrology theoretician.

> >

> > If not, there is no foolproof way to know the right path. Pick any

> path

> > (given

> > by an astrologer or one that you feel attracted to) instead of

wasting

> > time and

> > then keep working on your attitude. The latter is the key. As I

said

> > earlier,

> > learn to be a humble beggar at god's door. Choice of Mantra is

> secondary

> > and

> > attitude is primary. If you succeed in being a really humble

beggar,

> you

> > stand a

> > better chance of success than great scholars.

> >

> > Any prasiddha mantra (e.g. ashtakshari, panchakshari,

dwadasakshari,

> > navakshari,

> > vishnu sahasranaam, rudram, hare krishna maha mantra, chandipath,

> > ganapati

> > atharva seersham, mrityunjaya mantra etc) can help one make

progress

> if

> > one

> > develops the right attitude. Without the right attitude, even an

> > impeaccably

> > picked mantra will do nothing.

> >

> > * * *

> >

> > I hope this sufficiently clarifies my stand. I discuss these

matters

> > related to

> > spiritual sadhana more on the . Some

writings

> are

> > sampled

> > at http://www.vedicastrologer.org/homam/writings.htm.

> > <http://www.vedicastrologer.org/homam/writings.htm.>

> >

> > Best regards,

> > Narasimha

> >

> > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam

> > <http://www.vedicastrologer.org/homam>

> > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana

> > <http://www.vedicastrologer.org/tarpana>

> > Spirituality:

> > <>

> > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

> > <http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net/>

> > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> > <http://www.vedicastrologer.org/>

> > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

> > <http://www..org/>

> >

> >

> > om paramesthi gurave namah

> >

> > Dear Narasimha,

> >

> > Since you do not have any real definition of Gandanta, I am

dropping

> > that and

> > continue with my belief of the junction between Agni and Jala rasi

as

> > the case

> > of gandanta and the loka junctions. Which is perfectly in line

with

> > everything I

> > have learnt.

> >

> > Two statements you have made contradict standard texts on Jyotish

and

> > Mantra

> > Shastra. Please correct me if I am not understanding you well out

here

> -

> >

> > 1. Statement 1: *fasting on any day or any tithi* is good so long

as

> the

> > sankalpa has been made for the devata you intend to pray to.

Results

> > maybe a bit

> > delayed but will be there.

> > 2. Statement 2: *reciting any prayer* will give the desired

effects

> for

> > any

> > ailment we wish to remedy

> >

> > Is this what you intended to say or did I get this wrong?

> >

> > Statement 1 is an arrogance that the entire Jyotisha shastra is

bogus

> > and has

> > no relevance as the remedial measures prescribed by Parasara and

> others

> > to be

> > done on specific days are irrlevant and not of much consequence.

This

> > sounds

> > like another astrologer I had known some time back whose

statements

> like

> > this

> > coerced me to write Vedic Remedies in Astrology so that people are

not

> > misled

> > but such pretexts to knowledge.

> >

> > Statement 2 is an arrogance that the entire mantra shastra is

useless

> > and the

> > Rishi’s were wasting time in giving so many mantras for

> the

> > same devata,

> > like say thousands of mantras for Vishnu or Hanuman when any one

> mantra

> > would

> > suffice. OR it is like saying that we can take paracetamol and

pray

> that

> > cancer

> > is cured. I think I may have to write a book on Mantra Shastra to

> > validate the

> > teachings of the vedic seers.

> >

> > I think there is something wrong in the way you are saying what

you

> want

> > to

> > say. Please rethink and correct your statements for the sake of

good

> > record in

> > this list.

> >

> > With Warm Regards

> > Sanjay Rath

> > http://srath.com <http://srath.com/> http://sohamsa.com

> > <http://sohamsa.com/> http://.org

> > <http://.org/>

> > 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi, 110060, India

> >

>