Barack Obama Birth Certificate published

June 12, 2008

Dear friends,

Barack Obama's birth time is 7:24 PM - giving a rising degree of 24°

43' Capricorn - according to the following image of his birth

certificate:

http://images.dailykos.com/images/user/3/BO_Birth_Certificate.jpg

The BC was published on this site, which gives more information about

it:

http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/post/?

q=NWVjN2I1MjlhM2ZjZjRjYzBkODAxZjZkZGQyYWNkMDk=

Interestingly, the deviation from the earlier cited 7:11 PM time is

13 minutes. Only a few days ago, Ron Day and I were discussing this

ascendant in terms of SA and ended up considering two times:

a) +10 minutes, or 7:21 PM, giving 23° 51' Capricorn rising and

b) +21 minutes, or 7:31 PM, giving 27° 02' Capricorn.

So, we were quite close to the actual time - assuming the official

time is accurate.

In this case we can observe the following:

1) 8th lord SUN at 19° 13' Cancer is outside the MEP of the 7th

house, which is very good

2) 4th lord MARS at 29° 15' Leo is inside the MEP of the 8th house. I

could add, that as it is in Leo (equivalent of a Sun-like-house), the

power of the planet is increased, to 40%. So, its positive influence

on the 8th house, 11th house, 2nd house of status and 3rd house of

communication, is increased.

3) the nodal station this summer at 24° 30' Capricorn and Cancer will

be felt acutely by him.

Finally, CONGRATULATIONS to Ron Day for his accurate choice of a late

Capricorn ascendant for Barack Obama.

Best wishes,

Thor

SAMVA , " cosmologer " <cosmologer wrote:

>

> Dear Ron,

>

> It is good to keep in mind that the time 7:11 PM was cited as being

> based on the Birth Certificate. The plausibility of this ascendant,

> gives credibility to this information. In view of that, perhaps a

> small deviation from it would be justifiable, say up to 10 minutes.

> This would give 23° 51' Capricorn rising - with the Sun at the very

> edge of the MEP. The impact of the affliction would then be

expected

> to manifest in his life in coming few years. This rising degree

could

> also be tested in view of the nodal station this summer at 24° 30'.

> The closer the rising degree to the nodal station, the greater

would

> be the strain on him and his wife. This also sounds reasonable,

given

> the campaigning he will have to endure this summer. What do you

think?

>

> Best,

>

> Thor

> SAMVA , " cosmologer " <cosmologer@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Ron,

> >

> > You may very well be right. In particular, it is a good call to

> move

> > the Ascendant degree back. It will be interesting to study this

> > ascendant more closely for him.

> >

> > Best wishes,

> >

> > Thor

> >

> > SAMVA , RonDay <ronkar@> wrote:

> > >

> > > >C: 20° 57' Capricorn is rising

> > > Jupiter-Moon period is operating<

> > >

> > > Dear Thor,

> > > I have written before on the Capricorn rising chart. If

ascendant

> > is

> > > Capricorn the time should be much later IMO.

> > >

> > > Obama is running on a wave of popularity in the Mo sub period.

> > Exalted

> > > Mo is well placed in 5H (politics). It is also well placed in

> the

> > D10.

> > > This period can give wide recognition in his political career.

> > >

> > > >- 8th lord SUN is well placed at 19° 13' Cancer and 7th

house.

> > The

> > > most malefic planet (MMP), the Sun, is conjunct the most

> effective

> > point

> > > (MEP) of the 7th house, which would suggest endings or

obstacles

> > for 7th

> > > house indications, including the spouse. The affliction to 1st

> > house of

> > > self would also place him at risk of accidents. At the same

time,

> > it

> > > would give him or his wife a formidable presence and bring

wealth

> > > through e.g. inheritance. <

> > >

> > > This is quite an affliction. I think this orb should be

greater.

> > There

> > > is nothing to suggest that his recent Ju/Su period was

> unfavourable.

> > >

> > > >-10th lord VENUS is weak and badly placed in Gemini and 6th

> > house.

> > > This placement suggests conflict in career. Such a placement is

> > often

> > > seen in the charts of politicians who spend a long time

advancing

> > the

> > > cause of contentious matters. The 4 orb aspect from Ketu in the

> 2nd

> > > house would give periodic setbacks in career. <

> > >

> > > It is not a good placement for career but can show a career in

> > medicine

> > > or law.

> > > Obama went to law school and worked as an associate attorney

and

> > state

> > > legislator.

> > >

> > > >-9th lord MERCURY at 8° 59' in Cancer and the 7th house would

> be

> > good

> > > for foreign matters and give a spouse from a good family.

> However,

> > the

> > > aspect from Jupiter and the influence of the Sun could bring

> > > difficulties to married life. <

> > >

> > > Jupiter's aspect to Mercury shows the early loss of father.

> > >

> > > >The Leo ascendant or Capricorn ascendant with Sun aspecting

the

> > 1st

> > > house MEP could be consistent with taller height but the Libra

> > ascendant

> > > might make him closer to the average.<

> > >

> > > Saturn in the ascendant can give thin build?

> > >

> > > You didn't mention Mars but it is an interesting planet for

this

> > > ascendant. As the 4th lord in the 8H(research) it shows his

> desire

> > to

> > > trace his family origins in Africa (4H of ancestors and

heritage).

> > >

> > > This is also a placement for addictions and separation from the

> > place of

> > > birth.

> > > As a young adult he had to reconcile social perceptions of his

> > > multiracial heritage He wrote that he used alcohol, marijuana,

> and

> > > cocaine during his teenage years to " push questions of who I

was

> > out of

> > > my mind " .

> > >

> > > For the Capricorn ascendant this is an extremely problematic

> Mars.

> > He is

> > > in danger in the Ju/Ma period starting in February 2009. A

vedic

> > > astrologer would recommend remedial measures and have them

> carried

> > out.

> > >

> > > Obama's chart connects very well with the SAMVA USA chart so he

> > must

> > > resonate very well with the people of the country.

> > >

> > > There is a possibility that he may become president but due to

> > health

> > > /longevity issues or conspiracies, deception or intrigues he

may

> > have to

> > > step down. So even if he becomes president don't count Hillary

> > Clinton

> > > out. She has a strong chart for high office(I use Libra asc).

> This

> > may

> > > be vice president or president of some other organization ---

> still

> > > exceptional in itself. Notwithstanding, I think there is a

strong

> > > possibility that HC can become president but in a very strange

> and

> > > convoluted way.

> > >

> > > The interesting thing about this election is that it is

drilling

> at

> > > America's psyche. Is it the new unknown future or more

> conservative

> > > future? The next president will certainly have enormous

> challenges.

> > >

> > > Ron

> > >

> >

>

June 13, 2008

Hello dear list members,

With transit Rahu now in applying conjunction with the most effective point of his 7th house, Barack Obama is feeling a strain concerning his spoues:Obama campaign: Wife never used the word 'Whitey'WASHINGTON (AP) - Democrat Barack Obama's campaign said Thursday thatMichelle Obama never used the word "whitey" in a speech from thechurch pulpithttp://news./s/ap/20080612/ap_on_el_pr/obama_smears

Best,

Thor

cosmologer <cosmologerSAMVA Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2008 8:09:26 PM Barack Obama Birth Certificate publishedDear friends,Barack Obama's birth time is 7:24 PM - giving a rising degree of 24° 43' Capricorn - according to the following image of his birth certificate:http://images.dailykos.com/images/user/3/BO_Birth_Certificate.jpgThe BC was published on this site, which gives more information about it:http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/post/?q=NWVjN2I1MjlhM2ZjZjRjYzBkODAxZjZkZGQyYWNkMDk=Interestingly, the deviation from the earlier cited 7:11 PM time

is 13 minutes. Only a few days ago, Ron Day and I were discussing this ascendant in terms of SA and ended up considering two times:a) +10 minutes, or 7:21 PM, giving 23° 51' Capricorn rising andb) +21 minutes, or 7:31 PM, giving 27° 02' Capricorn. So, we were quite close to the actual time - assuming the official time is accurate.In this case we can observe the following:1) 8th lord SUN at 19° 13' Cancer is outside the MEP of the 7th house, which is very good2) 4th lord MARS at 29° 15' Leo is inside the MEP of the 8th house. I could add, that as it is in Leo (equivalent of a Sun-like-house), the power of the planet is increased, to 40%. So, its positive influence on the 8th house, 11th house, 2nd house of status and 3rd house of communication, is increased.3) the nodal station this summer at 24° 30' Capricorn and Cancer will be felt acutely by him.Finally,

CONGRATULATIONS to Ron Day for his accurate choice of a late Capricorn ascendant for Barack Obama.Best wishes,Thor SAMVA , "cosmologer" <cosmologer wrote:>> Dear Ron,> > It is good to keep in mind that the time 7:11 PM was cited as being > based on the Birth Certificate. The plausibility of this ascendant, > gives credibility to this information. In view of that, perhaps a > small deviation from it would be justifiable, say up to 10 minutes. > This would give 23° 51' Capricorn rising - with the Sun at the very > edge of the MEP. The impact of the affliction would then be expected > to manifest in his life in coming few years. This rising degree could > also be tested in view of the nodal station this summer at 24° 30'. >

The closer the rising degree to the nodal station, the greater would > be the strain on him and his wife. This also sounds reasonable, given > the campaigning he will have to endure this summer. What do you think?> > Best,> > Thor> SAMVA , "cosmologer" <cosmologer@> wrote:> >> > Dear Ron,> > > > You may very well be right. In particular, it is a good call to > move > > the Ascendant degree back. It will be interesting to study this > > ascendant more closely for him.> > > > Best wishes,> > > > Thor> > > > > > SAMVA , RonDay <ronkar@>

wrote:> > >> > > >C: 20° 57' Capricorn is rising> > > Jupiter-Moon period is operating<> > > > > > Dear Thor,> > > I have written before on the Capricorn rising chart. If ascendant > > is > > > Capricorn the time should be much later IMO.> > > > > > Obama is running on a wave of popularity in the Mo sub period. > > Exalted > > > Mo is well placed in 5H (politics). It is also well placed in > the > > D10. > > > This period can give wide recognition in his political career.> > > > > > > > > >- 8th lord SUN is well placed at 19° 13' Cancer and 7th house. > > The > > > most malefic planet (MMP), the Sun, is conjunct the most > effective > > point > > >

(MEP) of the 7th house, which would suggest endings or obstacles > > for 7th > > > house indications, including the spouse. The affliction to 1st > > house of > > > self would also place him at risk of accidents. At the same time, > > it > > > would give him or his wife a formidable presence and bring wealth > > > through e.g. inheritance. <> > > > > > This is quite an affliction. I think this orb should be greater. > > There > > > is nothing to suggest that his recent Ju/Su period was > unfavourable.> > > > > > > > > >-10th lord VENUS is weak and badly placed in Gemini and 6th > > house. > > > This placement suggests conflict in career. Such a placement is > > often > > > seen in the charts of politicians

who spend a long time advancing > > the > > > cause of contentious matters. The 4 orb aspect from Ketu in the > 2nd > > > house would give periodic setbacks in career. <> > > > > > It is not a good placement for career but can show a career in > > medicine > > > or law.> > > Obama went to law school and worked as an associate attorney and > > state > > > legislator.> > > > > > > > > >-9th lord MERCURY at 8° 59' in Cancer and the 7th house would > be > > good > > > for foreign matters and give a spouse from a good family. > However, > > the > > > aspect from Jupiter and the influence of the Sun could bring > > > difficulties to married life. <> > > > > > Jupiter's

aspect to Mercury shows the early loss of father.> > > > > > > > > >The Leo ascendant or Capricorn ascendant with Sun aspecting the > > 1st > > > house MEP could be consistent with taller height but the Libra > > ascendant > > > might make him closer to the average.<> > > > > > Saturn in the ascendant can give thin build?> > > > > > > > > You didn't mention Mars but it is an interesting planet for this > > > ascendant. As the 4th lord in the 8H(research) it shows his > desire > > to > > > trace his family origins in Africa (4H of ancestors and heritage).> > > > > > This is also a placement for addictions and separation from the > > place of > > > birth.> > > As a

young adult he had to reconcile social perceptions of his > > > multiracial heritage He wrote that he used alcohol, marijuana, > and > > > cocaine during his teenage years to "push questions of who I was > > out of > > > my mind".> > > > > > For the Capricorn ascendant this is an extremely problematic > Mars. > > He is > > > in danger in the Ju/Ma period starting in February 2009. A vedic > > > astrologer would recommend remedial measures and have them > carried > > out.> > > > > > Obama's chart connects very well with the SAMVA USA chart so he > > must > > > resonate very well with the people of the country.> > > > > > There is a possibility that he may become president but due to > > health > > > /longevity

issues or conspiracies, deception or intrigues he may > > have to > > > step down. So even if he becomes president don't count Hillary > > Clinton > > > out. She has a strong chart for high office(I use Libra asc). > This > > may > > > be vice president or president of some other organization --- > still > > > exceptional in itself. Notwithstanding, I think there is a strong > > > possibility that HC can become president but in a very strange > and > > > convoluted way.> > > > > > The interesting thing about this election is that it is drilling > at > > > America's psyche. Is it the new unknown future or more > conservative > > > future? The next president will certainly have enormous > challenges.> > > > > >

> > > Ron> > >> >>---

June 13, 2008

My dear ,

Would you have time to comment on the birth chart for Barack Obama,

assuming the correct birth time is close to the 7:24PM stated on the

birth certificate, giving around 24° 43' Capricorn rising?

Interestingly, the selection of a birth time for him creates a choice

with regard to two distinct influences in the chart:

a) NEGATIVE INFLUENCE: if the birth time is a couple of minutes

earlier than stated in the birth certificate, this gives e.g. 24° 08'

Capricorn rising. The MMP SUN at 19° 13' Capricorn will then be just

within the 5° orb of the 7th house MEP. This could result in some

adverse influences in his life in coming years

b) POSITIVE INFLUENCE: if the birth time is as stated in the birth

certificate or even slightly later, his 4th lord MARS at 29° 15' is

then conjunct his 8th house MEP and aspecting also his 11th house of

ideals, plans and wishes, 2nd house of wealth and status, 3rd house

of initiative, authorship and voice. A later degree could then

explain his increased status, success with books and giving a clear

message to the public regarding change, hope, etc.

Finally, assuming you find a likely ascendant degree for him in late

Capricorn, does that affect your assessment of his chances to be

elected President of the USA?

Best wishes,

Thor

Barack Obama

Aug 4, 1961 7:24 PM +10:00 HST

Honolulu, HI:USA Longitude: 157W52 Latitude: 21N18

Lahiri Ayanamsha: 23:19 Current Period: JU/MO/JU

Planet Deg Sign Speed SA Nakshatra Lord

================================================

Asc 24:43 Cap Dhanishtha Ma

Sun 19:13 Can +00:57:28 FM Aslesha Me

Moon 10:01 Tau +12:41:10 WK Rohini Mo

Mars 29:15 Leo +00:37:24 WK U.Phalguni Su

Merc 09:00 Can +02:00:15 CM Pushya Sa

JuptR 07:32 Cap -00:07:27 FM U.Shadya Su

Ven 08:28 Gem +01:08:02 WK Ardra Ra

Sat R 02:00 Cap -00:04:07 WK U.Shadya Su

Rahu 03:58 Leo -00:01:13 FM Magha Ke

Ketu 03:58 Aqu -00:01:13 FM Dhanishtha Ma

True Node 365.25 Day Year - Internet Time: 267 beats

Day: Friday Sunrise: 6:08 AM

Tithi: Krishna Dashami

Yoga Pt: 2:34 Sg Yogi:Ke AviYogi:Ra Dup Yogi: Ju

Dagha Rashis: Leo Sco

Sytems Approach Analysis

========================

Sun Good Placement, Weak Dispositor,

Moon Good Placement, Moon Not Bright 3%,

Mars Bad Placement, In Old Age: 85%, Weak Dispositor,

Mercury Good Placement, Combust 28%, Weak Dispositor,

Jupiter Good Placement, Debilitated,

Venus Bad Placement,

Saturn Good Placement, In Infancy: 60%,

Rahu Bad Placement, Weak Dispositor,

Ketu Good Placement, Weak Dispositor,

Rashi Chart

*******************************************************

** 11 * * 9 **

*12* * * * *

* * * * * *

* KE 03:58* * * *

* * * SAR02:00 * * *

* * 10 JUR07:32 * 8 *

* * * AS 24:43 * * *

* * * * * *

** * * **

*1 * 7 *

** * * **

*2 * * * * *

* * * * * *

* * * ME 09:00 * * *

*MO 10:01 * 4 SU 19:13 * 6 *

* * * * * *

* * * RA 03:58* *

* * VE 08:28 * * MA 29:15 * *

* * * * * *

** 3 * * 5 **

*******************************************************

Navamsha

*******************************************************

** 6 * * 4 **

*7 * * * * *

* * * * * *

* ME * * * *

* * * * * *

* * 5 AS * 3 *

* * * * * *

** * * **

*8 KE * 2 RA *

** * * **

*9 * * * * *

* * * * * *

*SU * * * * *

*MA * 11 * 1 MO *

*VE * * * * *

* * * * * *

* * SAR * * JUR * *

* * * * * *

** 10 * * 12 **

*******************************************************

Vimshottari Dasha/Buktis (Contemporary)

=======================================

Mo/Mo 27.7.1961

Mo/Ma 27.5.1962

Mo/Ra 26.12.1962

Mo/Ju 26.6.1964

Mo/Sa 26.10.1965

Mo/Me 28.5.1967

Mo/Ke 26.10.1968

Mo/Ve 27.5.1969

Mo/Su 26.1.1971

Ma/Ma 28.7.1971

Ma/Ra 24.12.1971

Ma/Ju 10.1.1973

Ma/Sa 17.12.1973

Ma/Me 26.1.1975

Ma/Ke 23.1.1976

Ma/Ve 20.6.1976

Ma/Su 20.8.1977

Ma/Mo 26.12.1977

Ra/Ra 27.7.1978

Ra/Ju 8.4.1981

Ra/Sa 2.9.1983

Ra/Me 9.7.1986

Ra/Ke 25.1.1989

Ra/Ve 13.2.1990

Ra/Su 13.2.1993

Ra/Mo 7.1.1994

Ra/Ma 9.7.1995

Ju/Ju 27.7.1996

Ju/Sa 14.9.1998

Ju/Me 27.3.2001

Ju/Ke 3.7.2003

Ju/Ve 8.6.2004

Ju/Su 7.2.2007

Ju/Mo 26.11.2007

Ju/Ma 27.3.2009

Ju/Ra 3.3.2010

Sa/Sa 27.7.2012

Sa/Me 31.7.2015

Sa/Ke 9.4.2018

Sa/Ve 18.5.2019

Sa/Su 18.7.2022

Sa/Mo 30.6.2023

Sa/Ma 28.1.2025

Sa/Ra 9.3.2026

Sa/Ju 13.1.2029

Me/Me 27.7.2031

Me/Ke 23.12.2033

Me/Ve 20.12.2034

Me/Su 20.10.2037

Me/Mo 27.8.2038

Me/Ma 26.1.2040

Me/Ra 22.1.2041

Me/Ju 12.8.2043

Me/Sa 17.11.2045

Ke/Ke 27.7.2048

Ke/Ve 23.12.2048

Ke/Su 22.2.2050

Ke/Mo 30.6.2050

Ke/Ma 29.1.2051

Ke/Ra 27.6.2051

Ke/Ju 15.7.2052

Ke/Sa 20.6.2053

Ke/Me 30.7.2054

Ve/Ve 28.7.2055

Ve/Su 26.11.2058

Ve/Mo 26.11.2059

Ve/Ma 27.7.2061

Ve/Ra 26.9.2062

Ve/Ju 26.9.2065

Ve/Sa 27.5.2068

Ve/Me 28.7.2071

Ve/Ke 27.5.2074

Su/Su 28.7.2075

Su/Mo 14.11.2075

Su/Ma 15.5.2076

Su/Ra 20.9.2076

Su/Ju 14.8.2077

Su/Sa 2.6.2078

Su/Me 15.5.2079

Su/Ke 21.3.2080

Su/Ve 27.7.2080

SAMVA , Cosmologer <cosmologer wrote:

>

> Hello dear list members,

> With transit Rahu now in applying conjunction with the most

effective point of his 7th house, Barack Obama is feeling a strain

concerning his spoues:

>

> Obama campaign: Wife never used the word 'Whitey'

> WASHINGTON (AP) - Democrat Barack Obama's campaign said Thursday

that

> Michelle Obama never used the word " whitey " in a speech from the

> church pulpit

> http://news./s/ap/20080612/ap_on_el_pr/obama_smears

>

> Best,

> Thor

>

> cosmologer <cosmologer

> SAMVA

> Thursday, June 12, 2008 8:09:26 PM

> Barack Obama Birth Certificate published

>

> Dear friends,

>

> Barack Obama's birth time is 7:24 PM - giving a rising degree of

24°

> 43' Capricorn - according to the following image of his birth

> certificate:

> http://images.dailykos.com/images/user/3/BO_Birth_Certificate.jpg

>

> The BC was published on this site, which gives more information

about

> it:

> http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/post/?

> q=NWVjN2I1MjlhM2ZjZjRjYzBkODAxZjZkZGQyYWNkMDk=

>

> Interestingly, the deviation from the earlier cited 7:11 PM time is

> 13 minutes. Only a few days ago, Ron Day and I were discussing this

> ascendant in terms of SA and ended up considering two times:

>

> a) +10 minutes, or 7:21 PM, giving 23° 51' Capricorn rising and

> b) +21 minutes, or 7:31 PM, giving 27° 02' Capricorn.

>

> So, we were quite close to the actual time - assuming the official

> time is accurate.

>

> In this case we can observe the following:

>

> 1) 8th lord SUN at 19° 13' Cancer is outside the MEP of the 7th

> house, which is very good

> 2) 4th lord MARS at 29° 15' Leo is inside the MEP of the 8th house.

I

> could add, that as it is in Leo (equivalent of a Sun-like-house),

the

> power of the planet is increased, to 40%. So, its positive

influence

> on the 8th house, 11th house, 2nd house of status and 3rd house of

> communication, is increased.

> 3) the nodal station this summer at 24° 30' Capricorn and Cancer

will

> be felt acutely by him.

>

> Finally, CONGRATULATIONS to Ron Day for his accurate choice of a

late

> Capricorn ascendant for Barack Obama.

>

> Best wishes,

>

> Thor

>

> SAMVA , " cosmologer " <cosmologer@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Ron,

> >

> > It is good to keep in mind that the time 7:11 PM was cited as

being

> > based on the Birth Certificate. The plausibility of this

ascendant,

> > gives credibility to this information. In view of that, perhaps a

> > small deviation from it would be justifiable, say up to 10

minutes.

> > This would give 23° 51' Capricorn rising - with the Sun at the

very

> > edge of the MEP. The impact of the affliction would then be

> expected

> > to manifest in his life in coming few years. This rising degree

> could

> > also be tested in view of the nodal station this summer at 24°

30'.

> > The closer the rising degree to the nodal station, the greater

> would

> > be the strain on him and his wife. This also sounds reasonable,

> given

> > the campaigning he will have to endure this summer. What do you

> think?

> >

> > Best,

> >

> > Thor

> > SAMVA , " cosmologer " <cosmologer@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Ron,

> > >

> > > You may very well be right. In particular, it is a good call to

> > move

> > > the Ascendant degree back. It will be interesting to study this

> > > ascendant more closely for him.

> > >

> > > Best wishes,

> > >

> > > Thor

> > >

> > > SAMVA , RonDay <ronkar@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > >C: 20° 57' Capricorn is rising

> > > > Jupiter-Moon period is operating<

> > > >

> > > > Dear Thor,

> > > > I have written before on the Capricorn rising chart. If

> ascendant

> > > is

> > > > Capricorn the time should be much later IMO.

> > > >

> > > > Obama is running on a wave of popularity in the Mo sub

period.

> > > Exalted

> > > > Mo is well placed in 5H (politics). It is also well placed

in

> > the

> > > D10.

> > > > This period can give wide recognition in his political career.

> > > >

> > > > >- 8th lord SUN is well placed at 19° 13' Cancer and 7th

> house.

> > > The

> > > > most malefic planet (MMP), the Sun, is conjunct the most

> > effective

> > > point

> > > > (MEP) of the 7th house, which would suggest endings or

> obstacles

> > > for 7th

> > > > house indications, including the spouse. The affliction to

1st

> > > house of

> > > > self would also place him at risk of accidents. At the same

> time,

> > > it

> > > > would give him or his wife a formidable presence and bring

> wealth

> > > > through e.g. inheritance. <

> > > >

> > > > This is quite an affliction. I think this orb should be

> greater.

> > > There

> > > > is nothing to suggest that his recent Ju/Su period was

> > unfavourable.

> > > >

> > > > >-10th lord VENUS is weak and badly placed in Gemini and 6th

> > > house.

> > > > This placement suggests conflict in career. Such a placement

is

> > > often

> > > > seen in the charts of politicians who spend a long time

> advancing

> > > the

> > > > cause of contentious matters. The 4 orb aspect from Ketu in

the

> > 2nd

> > > > house would give periodic setbacks in career. <

> > > >

> > > > It is not a good placement for career but can show a career

in

> > > medicine

> > > > or law.

> > > > Obama went to law school and worked as an associate attorney

> and

> > > state

> > > > legislator.

> > > >

> > > > >-9th lord MERCURY at 8° 59' in Cancer and the 7th house

would

> > be

> > > good

> > > > for foreign matters and give a spouse from a good family.

> > However,

> > > the

> > > > aspect from Jupiter and the influence of the Sun could bring

> > > > difficulties to married life. <

> > > >

> > > > Jupiter's aspect to Mercury shows the early loss of father.

> > > >

> > > > >The Leo ascendant or Capricorn ascendant with Sun aspecting

> the

> > > 1st

> > > > house MEP could be consistent with taller height but the

Libra

> > > ascendant

> > > > might make him closer to the average.<

> > > >

> > > > Saturn in the ascendant can give thin build?

> > > >

> > > > You didn't mention Mars but it is an interesting planet for

> this

> > > > ascendant. As the 4th lord in the 8H(research) it shows his

> > desire

> > > to

> > > > trace his family origins in Africa (4H of ancestors and

> heritage).

> > > >

> > > > This is also a placement for addictions and separation from

the

> > > place of

> > > > birth.

> > > > As a young adult he had to reconcile social perceptions of

his

> > > > multiracial heritage He wrote that he used alcohol,

marijuana,

> > and

> > > > cocaine during his teenage years to " push questions of who I

> was

> > > out of

> > > > my mind " .

> > > >

> > > > For the Capricorn ascendant this is an extremely problematic

> > Mars.

> > > He is

> > > > in danger in the Ju/Ma period starting in February 2009. A

> vedic

> > > > astrologer would recommend remedial measures and have them

> > carried

> > > out.

> > > >

> > > > Obama's chart connects very well with the SAMVA USA chart so

he

> > > must

> > > > resonate very well with the people of the country.

> > > >

> > > > There is a possibility that he may become president but due

to

> > > health

> > > > /longevity issues or conspiracies, deception or intrigues he

> may

> > > have to

> > > > step down. So even if he becomes president don't count

Hillary

> > > Clinton

> > > > out. She has a strong chart for high office(I use Libra asc).

> > This

> > > may

> > > > be vice president or president of some other organization ---

> > still

> > > > exceptional in itself. Notwithstanding, I think there is a

> strong

> > > > possibility that HC can become president but in a very

strange

> > and

> > > > convoluted way.

> > > >

> > > > The interesting thing about this election is that it is

> drilling

> > at

> > > > America's psyche. Is it the new unknown future or more

> > conservative

> > > > future? The next president will certainly have enormous

> > challenges.

> > > >

> > > > Ron

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

> ---

>

June 14, 2008

Hello my dear Thor, Assuming that this is his chart, I do not find any chance of his winning the election as President of USA.

Best wishes.

-

cosmologer

SAMVA

Saturday, June 14, 2008 12:11 AM

Re: Barack Obama Birth Certificate published

My dear ,Would you have time to comment on the birth chart for Barack Obama, assuming the correct birth time is close to the 7:24PM stated on the birth certificate, giving around 24° 43' Capricorn rising? Interestingly, the selection of a birth time for him creates a choice with regard to two distinct influences in the chart: a) NEGATIVE INFLUENCE: if the birth time is a couple of minutes earlier than stated in the birth certificate, this gives e.g. 24° 08' Capricorn rising. The MMP SUN at 19° 13' Capricorn will then be just within the 5° orb of the 7th house MEP. This could result in some adverse influences in his life in coming yearsb) POSITIVE INFLUENCE: if the birth time is as stated in the birth certificate or even slightly later, his 4th lord MARS at 29° 15' is then conjunct his 8th house MEP and aspecting also his 11th house of ideals, plans and wishes, 2nd house of wealth and status, 3rd house of initiative, authorship and voice. A later degree could then explain his increased status, success with books and giving a clear message to the public regarding change, hope, etc.Finally, assuming you find a likely ascendant degree for him in late Capricorn, does that affect your assessment of his chances to be elected President of the USA? Best wishes,ThorBarack ObamaAug 4, 1961 7:24 PM +10:00 HSTHonolulu, HI:USA Longitude: 157W52 Latitude: 21N18Lahiri Ayanamsha: 23:19 Current Period: JU/MO/JUPlanet Deg Sign Speed SA Nakshatra Lord================================================Asc 24:43 Cap Dhanishtha MaSun 19:13 Can +00:57:28 FM Aslesha MeMoon 10:01 Tau +12:41:10 WK Rohini MoMars 29:15 Leo +00:37:24 WK U.Phalguni SuMerc 09:00 Can +02:00:15 CM Pushya SaJuptR 07:32 Cap -00:07:27 FM U.Shadya SuVen 08:28 Gem +01:08:02 WK Ardra RaSat R 02:00 Cap -00:04:07 WK U.Shadya SuRahu 03:58 Leo -00:01:13 FM Magha KeKetu 03:58 Aqu -00:01:13 FM Dhanishtha MaTrue Node 365.25 Day Year - Internet Time: 267 beatsDay: Friday Sunrise: 6:08 AMTithi: Krishna DashamiYoga Pt: 2:34 Sg Yogi:Ke AviYogi:Ra Dup Yogi: JuDagha Rashis: Leo ScoSytems Approach Analysis========================Sun Good Placement, Weak Dispositor, Moon Good Placement, Moon Not Bright 3%, Mars Bad Placement, In Old Age: 85%, Weak Dispositor, Mercury Good Placement, Combust 28%, Weak Dispositor, Jupiter Good Placement, Debilitated, Venus Bad Placement, Saturn Good Placement, In Infancy: 60%, Rahu Bad Placement, Weak Dispositor, Ketu Good Placement, Weak Dispositor, Rashi Chart******************************************************* ** 11 * * 9 ** *12* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * KE 03:58* * * * * * * SAR02:00 * * * * * 10 JUR07:32 * 8 * * * * AS 24:43 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** * * ** *1 * 7 * ** * * ** *2 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ME 09:00 * * * *MO 10:01 * 4 SU 19:13 * 6 * * * * * * * * * * RA 03:58* * * * VE 08:28 * * MA 29:15 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** 3 * * 5 ** ******************************************************* Navamsha******************************************************* ** 6 * * 4 ** *7 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ME * * * * * * * * * * * * 5 AS * 3 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** * * ** *8 KE * 2 RA * ** * * ** *9 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *SU * * * * * *MA * 11 * 1 MO * *VE * * * * * * * * * * * * * SAR * * JUR * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** 10 * * 12 ** ******************************************************* Vimshottari Dasha/Buktis (Contemporary)=======================================Mo/Mo 27.7.1961Mo/Ma 27.5.1962Mo/Ra 26.12.1962Mo/Ju 26.6.1964Mo/Sa 26.10.1965Mo/Me 28.5.1967Mo/Ke 26.10.1968Mo/Ve 27.5.1969Mo/Su 26.1.1971Ma/Ma 28.7.1971Ma/Ra 24.12.1971Ma/Ju 10.1.1973Ma/Sa 17.12.1973Ma/Me 26.1.1975Ma/Ke 23.1.1976Ma/Ve 20.6.1976Ma/Su 20.8.1977Ma/Mo 26.12.1977Ra/Ra 27.7.1978Ra/Ju 8.4.1981Ra/Sa 2.9.1983Ra/Me 9.7.1986Ra/Ke 25.1.1989Ra/Ve 13.2.1990Ra/Su 13.2.1993Ra/Mo 7.1.1994Ra/Ma 9.7.1995Ju/Ju 27.7.1996Ju/Sa 14.9.1998Ju/Me 27.3.2001Ju/Ke 3.7.2003Ju/Ve 8.6.2004Ju/Su 7.2.2007Ju/Mo 26.11.2007Ju/Ma 27.3.2009Ju/Ra 3.3.2010Sa/Sa 27.7.2012Sa/Me 31.7.2015Sa/Ke 9.4.2018Sa/Ve 18.5.2019Sa/Su 18.7.2022Sa/Mo 30.6.2023Sa/Ma 28.1.2025Sa/Ra 9.3.2026Sa/Ju 13.1.2029Me/Me 27.7.2031Me/Ke 23.12.2033Me/Ve 20.12.2034Me/Su 20.10.2037Me/Mo 27.8.2038Me/Ma 26.1.2040Me/Ra 22.1.2041Me/Ju 12.8.2043Me/Sa 17.11.2045Ke/Ke 27.7.2048Ke/Ve 23.12.2048Ke/Su 22.2.2050Ke/Mo 30.6.2050Ke/Ma 29.1.2051Ke/Ra 27.6.2051Ke/Ju 15.7.2052Ke/Sa 20.6.2053Ke/Me 30.7.2054Ve/Ve 28.7.2055Ve/Su 26.11.2058Ve/Mo 26.11.2059Ve/Ma 27.7.2061Ve/Ra 26.9.2062Ve/Ju 26.9.2065Ve/Sa 27.5.2068Ve/Me 28.7.2071Ve/Ke 27.5.2074Su/Su 28.7.2075Su/Mo 14.11.2075Su/Ma 15.5.2076Su/Ra 20.9.2076Su/Ju 14.8.2077Su/Sa 2.6.2078Su/Me 15.5.2079Su/Ke 21.3.2080Su/Ve 27.7.2080SAMVA , Cosmologer <cosmologer wrote:>> Hello dear list members,> With transit Rahu now in applying conjunction with the most effective point of his 7th house, Barack Obama is feeling a strain concerning his spoues:> > Obama campaign: Wife never used the word 'Whitey'> WASHINGTON (AP) - Democrat Barack Obama's campaign said Thursday that> Michelle Obama never used the word "whitey" in a speech from the> church pulpit> http://news./s/ap/20080612/ap_on_el_pr/obama_smears> > Best,> Thor> > > > > cosmologer <cosmologer> SAMVA > Thursday, June 12, 2008 8:09:26 PM> Barack Obama Birth Certificate published> > Dear friends,> > Barack Obama's birth time is 7:24 PM - giving a rising degree of 24° > 43' Capricorn - according to the following image of his birth > certificate:> http://images.dailykos.com/images/user/3/BO_Birth_Certificate.jpg> > The BC was published on this site, which gives more information about > it:> http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/post/?> q=NWVjN2I1MjlhM2ZjZjRjYzBkODAxZjZkZGQyYWNkMDk=> > Interestingly, the deviation from the earlier cited 7:11 PM time is > 13 minutes. Only a few days ago, Ron Day and I were discussing this > ascendant in terms of SA and ended up considering two times:> > a) +10 minutes, or 7:21 PM, giving 23° 51' Capricorn rising and> b) +21 minutes, or 7:31 PM, giving 27° 02' Capricorn. > > So, we were quite close to the actual time - assuming the official > time is accurate.> > In this case we can observe the following:> > 1) 8th lord SUN at 19° 13' Cancer is outside the MEP of the 7th > house, which is very good> 2) 4th lord MARS at 29° 15' Leo is inside the MEP of the 8th house. I > could add, that as it is in Leo (equivalent of a Sun-like-house), the > power of the planet is increased, to 40%. So, its positive influence > on the 8th house, 11th house, 2nd house of status and 3rd house of > communication, is increased.> 3) the nodal station this summer at 24° 30' Capricorn and Cancer will > be felt acutely by him.> > Finally, CONGRATULATIONS to Ron Day for his accurate choice of a late > Capricorn ascendant for Barack Obama.> > Best wishes,> > Thor > > SAMVA , "cosmologer" <cosmologer@> wrote:> >> > Dear Ron,> > > > It is good to keep in mind that the time 7:11 PM was cited as being > > based on the Birth Certificate. The plausibility of this ascendant, > > gives credibility to this information. In view of that, perhaps a > > small deviation from it would be justifiable, say up to 10 minutes. > > This would give 23° 51' Capricorn rising - with the Sun at the very > > edge of the MEP. The impact of the affliction would then be > expected > > to manifest in his life in coming few years. This rising degree > could > > also be tested in view of the nodal station this summer at 24° 30'. > > The closer the rising degree to the nodal station, the greater > would > > be the strain on him and his wife. This also sounds reasonable, > given > > the campaigning he will have to endure this summer. What do you > think?> > > > Best,> > > > Thor> > SAMVA , "cosmologer" <cosmologer@> wrote:> > >> > > Dear Ron,> > > > > > You may very well be right. In particular, it is a good call to > > move > > > the Ascendant degree back. It will be interesting to study this > > > ascendant more closely for him.> > > > > > Best wishes,> > > > > > Thor> > > > > > > > > SAMVA , RonDay <ronkar@> wrote:> > > >> > > > >C: 20° 57' Capricorn is rising> > > > Jupiter-Moon period is operating<> > > > > > > > Dear Thor,> > > > I have written before on the Capricorn rising chart. If > ascendant > > > is > > > > Capricorn the time should be much later IMO.> > > > > > > > Obama is running on a wave of popularity in the Mo sub period. > > > Exalted > > > > Mo is well placed in 5H (politics). It is also well placed in > > the > > > D10. > > > > This period can give wide recognition in his political career.> > > > > > > > > > > > >- 8th lord SUN is well placed at 19° 13' Cancer and 7th > house. > > > The > > > > most malefic planet (MMP), the Sun, is conjunct the most > > effective > > > point > > > > (MEP) of the 7th house, which would suggest endings or > obstacles > > > for 7th > > > > house indications, including the spouse. The affliction to 1st > > > house of > > > > self would also place him at risk of accidents. At the same > time, > > > it > > > > would give him or his wife a formidable presence and bring > wealth > > > > through e.g. inheritance. <> > > > > > > > This is quite an affliction. I think this orb should be > greater. > > > There > > > > is nothing to suggest that his recent Ju/Su period was > > unfavourable.> > > > > > > > > > > > >-10th lord VENUS is weak and badly placed in Gemini and 6th > > > house. > > > > This placement suggests conflict in career. Such a placement is > > > often > > > > seen in the charts of politicians who spend a long time > advancing > > > the > > > > cause of contentious matters. The 4 orb aspect from Ketu in the > > 2nd > > > > house would give periodic setbacks in career. <> > > > > > > > It is not a good placement for career but can show a career in > > > medicine > > > > or law.> > > > Obama went to law school and worked as an associate attorney > and > > > state > > > > legislator.> > > > > > > > > > > > >-9th lord MERCURY at 8° 59' in Cancer and the 7th house would > > be > > > good > > > > for foreign matters and give a spouse from a good family. > > However, > > > the > > > > aspect from Jupiter and the influence of the Sun could bring > > > > difficulties to married life. <> > > > > > > > Jupiter's aspect to Mercury shows the early loss of father.> > > > > > > > > > > > >The Leo ascendant or Capricorn ascendant with Sun aspecting > the > > > 1st > > > > house MEP could be consistent with taller height but the Libra > > > ascendant > > > > might make him closer to the average.<> > > > > > > > Saturn in the ascendant can give thin build?> > > > > > > > > > > > You didn't mention Mars but it is an interesting planet for > this > > > > ascendant. As the 4th lord in the 8H(research) it shows his > > desire > > > to > > > > trace his family origins in Africa (4H of ancestors and > heritage).> > > > > > > > This is also a placement for addictions and separation from the > > > place of > > > > birth.> > > > As a young adult he had to reconcile social perceptions of his > > > > multiracial heritage He wrote that he used alcohol, marijuana, > > and > > > > cocaine during his teenage years to "push questions of who I > was > > > out of > > > > my mind".> > > > > > > > For the Capricorn ascendant this is an extremely problematic > > Mars. > > > He is > > > > in danger in the Ju/Ma period starting in February 2009. A > vedic > > > > astrologer would recommend remedial measures and have them > > carried > > > out.> > > > > > > > Obama's chart connects very well with the SAMVA USA chart so he > > > must > > > > resonate very well with the people of the country.> > > > > > > > There is a possibility that he may become president but due to > > > health > > > > /longevity issues or conspiracies, deception or intrigues he > may > > > have to > > > > step down. So even if he becomes president don't count Hillary > > > Clinton > > > > out. She has a strong chart for high office(I use Libra asc). > > This > > > may > > > > be vice president or president of some other organization --- > > still > > > > exceptional in itself. Notwithstanding, I think there is a > strong > > > > possibility that HC can become president but in a very strange > > and > > > > convoluted way.> > > > > > > > The interesting thing about this election is that it is > drilling > > at > > > > America's psyche. Is it the new unknown future or more > > conservative > > > > future? The next president will certainly have enormous > > challenges.> > > > > > > > > > > > Ron> > > >> > >> >> > > > ---> >

June 14, 2008

My dear ,

Thank you for the very helpful assessment.

I suppose the late Capricorn rising chart would also not be

consistent with him having won the majority of delegates for the

nomination in the first half of 2008, primarily due to transit 2nd

lord Saturn being in the 8th house of obstacles and endings since mid

2007.

Best wishes,

Thor

SAMVA , " SIHA " <vkchoudhry wrote:

>

> Hello my dear Thor,

>

> Assuming that this is his chart, I do not find any chance of his

winning the election as President of USA.

>

> Best wishes.

>

> -

> cosmologer

> SAMVA

> Saturday, June 14, 2008 12:11 AM

> Re: Barack Obama Birth Certificate published

>

> My dear ,

>

> Would you have time to comment on the birth chart for Barack

Obama,

> assuming the correct birth time is close to the 7:24PM stated on

the

> birth certificate, giving around 24° 43' Capricorn rising?

>

> Interestingly, the selection of a birth time for him creates a

choice

> with regard to two distinct influences in the chart:

>

> a) NEGATIVE INFLUENCE: if the birth time is a couple of minutes

> earlier than stated in the birth certificate, this gives e.g. 24°

08'

> Capricorn rising. The MMP SUN at 19° 13' Capricorn will then be

just

> within the 5° orb of the 7th house MEP. This could result in some

> adverse influences in his life in coming years

>

> b) POSITIVE INFLUENCE: if the birth time is as stated in the

birth

> certificate or even slightly later, his 4th lord MARS at 29° 15'

is

> then conjunct his 8th house MEP and aspecting also his 11th house

of

> ideals, plans and wishes, 2nd house of wealth and status, 3rd

house

> of initiative, authorship and voice. A later degree could then

> explain his increased status, success with books and giving a

clear

> message to the public regarding change, hope, etc.

>

> Finally, assuming you find a likely ascendant degree for him in

late

> Capricorn, does that affect your assessment of his chances to be

> elected President of the USA?

>

> Best wishes,

>

> Thor

>

> Barack Obama

> Aug 4, 1961 7:24 PM +10:00 HST

> Honolulu, HI:USA Longitude: 157W52 Latitude: 21N18

> Lahiri Ayanamsha: 23:19 Current Period: JU/MO/JU

>

> Planet Deg Sign Speed SA Nakshatra Lord

> ================================================

> Asc 24:43 Cap Dhanishtha Ma

> Sun 19:13 Can +00:57:28 FM Aslesha Me

> Moon 10:01 Tau +12:41:10 WK Rohini Mo

> Mars 29:15 Leo +00:37:24 WK U.Phalguni Su

> Merc 09:00 Can +02:00:15 CM Pushya Sa

> JuptR 07:32 Cap -00:07:27 FM U.Shadya Su

> Ven 08:28 Gem +01:08:02 WK Ardra Ra

> Sat R 02:00 Cap -00:04:07 WK U.Shadya Su

> Rahu 03:58 Leo -00:01:13 FM Magha Ke

> Ketu 03:58 Aqu -00:01:13 FM Dhanishtha Ma

>

> True Node 365.25 Day Year - Internet Time: 267 beats

> Day: Friday Sunrise: 6:08 AM

> Tithi: Krishna Dashami

> Yoga Pt: 2:34 Sg Yogi:Ke AviYogi:Ra Dup Yogi: Ju

> Dagha Rashis: Leo Sco

>

> Sytems Approach Analysis

> ========================

> Sun Good Placement, Weak Dispositor,

> Moon Good Placement, Moon Not Bright 3%,

> Mars Bad Placement, In Old Age: 85%, Weak Dispositor,

> Mercury Good Placement, Combust 28%, Weak Dispositor,

> Jupiter Good Placement, Debilitated,

> Venus Bad Placement,

> Saturn Good Placement, In Infancy: 60%,

> Rahu Bad Placement, Weak Dispositor,

> Ketu Good Placement, Weak Dispositor,

>

> Rashi Chart

> *******************************************************

> ** 11 * * 9 **

> *12* * * * *

> * * * * * *

> * KE 03:58* * * *

> * * * SAR02:00 * * *

> * * 10 JUR07:32 * 8 *

> * * * AS 24:43 * * *

> * * * * * *

> ** * * **

> *1 * 7 *

> ** * * **

> *2 * * * * *

> * * * * * *

> * * * ME 09:00 * * *

> *MO 10:01 * 4 SU 19:13 * 6 *

> * * * * * *

> * * * RA 03:58* *

> * * VE 08:28 * * MA 29:15 * *

> * * * * * *

> ** 3 * * 5 **

> *******************************************************

>

> Navamsha

> *******************************************************

> ** 6 * * 4 **

> *7 * * * * *

> * * * * * *

> * ME * * * *

> * * * * * *

> * * 5 AS * 3 *

> * * * * * *

> ** * * **

> *8 KE * 2 RA *

> ** * * **

> *9 * * * * *

> * * * * * *

> *SU * * * * *

> *MA * 11 * 1 MO *

> *VE * * * * *

> * * * * * *

> * * SAR * * JUR * *

> * * * * * *

> ** 10 * * 12 **

> *******************************************************

>

> Vimshottari Dasha/Buktis (Contemporary)

> =======================================

> Mo/Mo 27.7.1961

> Mo/Ma 27.5.1962

> Mo/Ra 26.12.1962

> Mo/Ju 26.6.1964

> Mo/Sa 26.10.1965

> Mo/Me 28.5.1967

> Mo/Ke 26.10.1968

> Mo/Ve 27.5.1969

> Mo/Su 26.1.1971

> Ma/Ma 28.7.1971

> Ma/Ra 24.12.1971

> Ma/Ju 10.1.1973

> Ma/Sa 17.12.1973

> Ma/Me 26.1.1975

> Ma/Ke 23.1.1976

> Ma/Ve 20.6.1976

> Ma/Su 20.8.1977

> Ma/Mo 26.12.1977

> Ra/Ra 27.7.1978

> Ra/Ju 8.4.1981

> Ra/Sa 2.9.1983

> Ra/Me 9.7.1986

> Ra/Ke 25.1.1989

> Ra/Ve 13.2.1990

> Ra/Su 13.2.1993

> Ra/Mo 7.1.1994

> Ra/Ma 9.7.1995

> Ju/Ju 27.7.1996

> Ju/Sa 14.9.1998

> Ju/Me 27.3.2001

> Ju/Ke 3.7.2003

> Ju/Ve 8.6.2004

> Ju/Su 7.2.2007

> Ju/Mo 26.11.2007

> Ju/Ma 27.3.2009

> Ju/Ra 3.3.2010

> Sa/Sa 27.7.2012

> Sa/Me 31.7.2015

> Sa/Ke 9.4.2018

> Sa/Ve 18.5.2019

> Sa/Su 18.7.2022

> Sa/Mo 30.6.2023

> Sa/Ma 28.1.2025

> Sa/Ra 9.3.2026

> Sa/Ju 13.1.2029

> Me/Me 27.7.2031

> Me/Ke 23.12.2033

> Me/Ve 20.12.2034

> Me/Su 20.10.2037

> Me/Mo 27.8.2038

> Me/Ma 26.1.2040

> Me/Ra 22.1.2041

> Me/Ju 12.8.2043

> Me/Sa 17.11.2045

> Ke/Ke 27.7.2048

> Ke/Ve 23.12.2048

> Ke/Su 22.2.2050

> Ke/Mo 30.6.2050

> Ke/Ma 29.1.2051

> Ke/Ra 27.6.2051

> Ke/Ju 15.7.2052

> Ke/Sa 20.6.2053

> Ke/Me 30.7.2054

> Ve/Ve 28.7.2055

> Ve/Su 26.11.2058

> Ve/Mo 26.11.2059

> Ve/Ma 27.7.2061

> Ve/Ra 26.9.2062

> Ve/Ju 26.9.2065

> Ve/Sa 27.5.2068

> Ve/Me 28.7.2071

> Ve/Ke 27.5.2074

> Su/Su 28.7.2075

> Su/Mo 14.11.2075

> Su/Ma 15.5.2076

> Su/Ra 20.9.2076

> Su/Ju 14.8.2077

> Su/Sa 2.6.2078

> Su/Me 15.5.2079

> Su/Ke 21.3.2080

> Su/Ve 27.7.2080

>

> SAMVA , Cosmologer <cosmologer@> wrote:

> >

> > Hello dear list members,

> > With transit Rahu now in applying conjunction with the most

> effective point of his 7th house, Barack Obama is feeling a

strain

> concerning his spoues:

> >

> > Obama campaign: Wife never used the word 'Whitey'

> > WASHINGTON (AP) - Democrat Barack Obama's campaign said

Thursday

> that

> > Michelle Obama never used the word " whitey " in a speech from the

> > church pulpit

> > http://news./s/ap/20080612/ap_on_el_pr/obama_smears

> >

> > Best,

> > Thor

> >

> > cosmologer <cosmologer@>

> > SAMVA

> > Thursday, June 12, 2008 8:09:26 PM

> > Barack Obama Birth Certificate published

> >

> > Dear friends,

> >

> > Barack Obama's birth time is 7:24 PM - giving a rising degree

of

> 24°

> > 43' Capricorn - according to the following image of his birth

> > certificate:

> >

http://images.dailykos.com/images/user/3/BO_Birth_Certificate.jpg

> >

> > The BC was published on this site, which gives more information

> about

> > it:

> > http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/post/?

> > q=NWVjN2I1MjlhM2ZjZjRjYzBkODAxZjZkZGQyYWNkMDk=

> >

> > Interestingly, the deviation from the earlier cited 7:11 PM

time is

> > 13 minutes. Only a few days ago, Ron Day and I were discussing

this

> > ascendant in terms of SA and ended up considering two times:

> >

> > a) +10 minutes, or 7:21 PM, giving 23° 51' Capricorn rising and

> > b) +21 minutes, or 7:31 PM, giving 27° 02' Capricorn.

> >

> > So, we were quite close to the actual time - assuming the

official

> > time is accurate.

> >

> > In this case we can observe the following:

> >

> > 1) 8th lord SUN at 19° 13' Cancer is outside the MEP of the 7th

> > house, which is very good

> > 2) 4th lord MARS at 29° 15' Leo is inside the MEP of the 8th

house.

> I

> > could add, that as it is in Leo (equivalent of a Sun-like-

house),

> the

> > power of the planet is increased, to 40%. So, its positive

> influence

> > on the 8th house, 11th house, 2nd house of status and 3rd house

of

> > communication, is increased.

> > 3) the nodal station this summer at 24° 30' Capricorn and

Cancer

> will

> > be felt acutely by him.

> >

> > Finally, CONGRATULATIONS to Ron Day for his accurate choice of

a

> late

> > Capricorn ascendant for Barack Obama.

> >

> > Best wishes,

> >

> > Thor

> >

> > SAMVA , " cosmologer " <cosmologer@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Ron,

> > >

> > > It is good to keep in mind that the time 7:11 PM was cited as

> being

> > > based on the Birth Certificate. The plausibility of this

> ascendant,

> > > gives credibility to this information. In view of that,

perhaps a

> > > small deviation from it would be justifiable, say up to 10

> minutes.

> > > This would give 23° 51' Capricorn rising - with the Sun at

the

> very

> > > edge of the MEP. The impact of the affliction would then be

> > expected

> > > to manifest in his life in coming few years. This rising

degree

> > could

> > > also be tested in view of the nodal station this summer at

24°

> 30'.

> > > The closer the rising degree to the nodal station, the

greater

> > would

> > > be the strain on him and his wife. This also sounds

reasonable,

> > given

> > > the campaigning he will have to endure this summer. What do

you

> > think?

> > >

> > > Best,

> > >

> > > Thor

> > > SAMVA , " cosmologer " <cosmologer@>

wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Ron,

> > > >

> > > > You may very well be right. In particular, it is a good

call to

> > > move

> > > > the Ascendant degree back. It will be interesting to study

this

> > > > ascendant more closely for him.

> > > >

> > > > Best wishes,

> > > >

> > > > Thor

> > > >

> > > > SAMVA , RonDay <ronkar@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > >C: 20° 57' Capricorn is rising

> > > > > Jupiter-Moon period is operating<

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Thor,

> > > > > I have written before on the Capricorn rising chart. If

> > ascendant

> > > > is

> > > > > Capricorn the time should be much later IMO.

> > > > >

> > > > > Obama is running on a wave of popularity in the Mo sub

> period.

> > > > Exalted

> > > > > Mo is well placed in 5H (politics). It is also well

placed

> in

> > > the

> > > > D10.

> > > > > This period can give wide recognition in his political

career.

> > > > >

> > > > > >- 8th lord SUN is well placed at 19° 13' Cancer and 7th

> > house.

> > > > The

> > > > > most malefic planet (MMP), the Sun, is conjunct the most

> > > effective

> > > > point

> > > > > (MEP) of the 7th house, which would suggest endings or

> > obstacles

> > > > for 7th

> > > > > house indications, including the spouse. The affliction

to

> 1st

> > > > house of

> > > > > self would also place him at risk of accidents. At the

same

> > time,

> > > > it

> > > > > would give him or his wife a formidable presence and

bring

> > wealth

> > > > > through e.g. inheritance. <

> > > > >

> > > > > This is quite an affliction. I think this orb should be

> > greater.

> > > > There

> > > > > is nothing to suggest that his recent Ju/Su period was

> > > unfavourable.

> > > > >

> > > > > >-10th lord VENUS is weak and badly placed in Gemini and

6th

> > > > house.

> > > > > This placement suggests conflict in career. Such a

placement

> is

> > > > often

> > > > > seen in the charts of politicians who spend a long time

> > advancing

> > > > the

> > > > > cause of contentious matters. The 4 orb aspect from Ketu

in

> the

> > > 2nd

> > > > > house would give periodic setbacks in career. <

> > > > >

> > > > > It is not a good placement for career but can show a

career

> in

> > > > medicine

> > > > > or law.

> > > > > Obama went to law school and worked as an associate

attorney

> > and

> > > > state

> > > > > legislator.

> > > > >

> > > > > >-9th lord MERCURY at 8° 59' in Cancer and the 7th house

> would

> > > be

> > > > good

> > > > > for foreign matters and give a spouse from a good family.

> > > However,

> > > > the

> > > > > aspect from Jupiter and the influence of the Sun could

bring

> > > > > difficulties to married life. <

> > > > >

> > > > > Jupiter's aspect to Mercury shows the early loss of

father.

> > > > >

> > > > > >The Leo ascendant or Capricorn ascendant with Sun

aspecting

> > the

> > > > 1st

> > > > > house MEP could be consistent with taller height but the

> Libra

> > > > ascendant

> > > > > might make him closer to the average.<

> > > > >

> > > > > Saturn in the ascendant can give thin build?

> > > > >

> > > > > You didn't mention Mars but it is an interesting planet

for

> > this

> > > > > ascendant. As the 4th lord in the 8H(research) it shows

his

> > > desire

> > > > to

> > > > > trace his family origins in Africa (4H of ancestors and

> > heritage).

> > > > >

> > > > > This is also a placement for addictions and separation

from

> the

> > > > place of

> > > > > birth.

> > > > > As a young adult he had to reconcile social perceptions

of

> his

> > > > > multiracial heritage He wrote that he used alcohol,

> marijuana,

> > > and

> > > > > cocaine during his teenage years to " push questions of

who I

> > was

> > > > out of

> > > > > my mind " .

> > > > >

> > > > > For the Capricorn ascendant this is an extremely

problematic

> > > Mars.

> > > > He is

> > > > > in danger in the Ju/Ma period starting in February 2009.

A

> > vedic

> > > > > astrologer would recommend remedial measures and have

them

> > > carried

> > > > out.

> > > > >

> > > > > Obama's chart connects very well with the SAMVA USA chart

so

> he

> > > > must

> > > > > resonate very well with the people of the country.

> > > > >

> > > > > There is a possibility that he may become president but

due

> to

> > > > health

> > > > > /longevity issues or conspiracies, deception or intrigues

he

> > may

> > > > have to

> > > > > step down. So even if he becomes president don't count

> Hillary

> > > > Clinton

> > > > > out. She has a strong chart for high office(I use Libra

asc).

> > > This

> > > > may

> > > > > be vice president or president of some other

organization ---

> > > still

> > > > > exceptional in itself. Notwithstanding, I think there is

a

> > strong

> > > > > possibility that HC can become president but in a very

> strange

> > > and

> > > > > convoluted way.

> > > > >

> > > > > The interesting thing about this election is that it is

> > drilling

> > > at

> > > > > America's psyche. Is it the new unknown future or more

> > > conservative

> > > > > future? The next president will certainly have enormous

> > > challenges.

> > > > >

> > > > > Ron

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> > ---

> >

June 14, 2008

Hi Thor,I appreciate the discussion. This chart, though, with a Saturn in the first and the Jupiter Moon period, looks like it could help with that. The presidency is another story, it seems to me.Best wishes,

SallyOn Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 10:17 PM, cosmologer <cosmologer wrote:

My dear ,

Thank you for the very helpful assessment.

I suppose the late Capricorn rising chart would also not be

consistent with him having won the majority of delegates for the

nomination in the first half of 2008, primarily due to transit 2nd

lord Saturn being in the 8th house of obstacles and endings since mid

2007.

Best wishes,

Thor

SAMVA , " SIHA " <vkchoudhry wrote:

>

> Hello my dear Thor,

>

> Assuming that this is his chart, I do not find any chance of his

winning the election as President of USA.

>

> Best wishes.

>

> -

> cosmologer

> SAMVA

> Saturday, June 14, 2008 12:11 AM

> Re: Barack Obama Birth Certificate published

>

> My dear ,

>

> Would you have time to comment on the birth chart for Barack

Obama,

> assuming the correct birth time is close to the 7:24PM stated on

the

> birth certificate, giving around 24° 43' Capricorn rising?

>

> Interestingly, the selection of a birth time for him creates a

choice

> with regard to two distinct influences in the chart:

>

> a) NEGATIVE INFLUENCE: if the birth time is a couple of minutes

> earlier than stated in the birth certificate, this gives e.g. 24°

08'

> Capricorn rising. The MMP SUN at 19° 13' Capricorn will then be

just

> within the 5° orb of the 7th house MEP. This could result in some

> adverse influences in his life in coming years

>

> b) POSITIVE INFLUENCE: if the birth time is as stated in the

birth

> certificate or even slightly later, his 4th lord MARS at 29° 15'

is

> then conjunct his 8th house MEP and aspecting also his 11th house

of

> ideals, plans and wishes, 2nd house of wealth and status, 3rd

house

> of initiative, authorship and voice. A later degree could then

> explain his increased status, success with books and giving a

clear

> message to the public regarding change, hope, etc.

>

> Finally, assuming you find a likely ascendant degree for him in

late

> Capricorn, does that affect your assessment of his chances to be

> elected President of the USA?

>

> Best wishes,

>

> Thor

>

> Barack Obama

> Aug 4, 1961 7:24 PM +10:00 HST

> Honolulu, HI:USA Longitude: 157W52 Latitude: 21N18

> Lahiri Ayanamsha: 23:19 Current Period: JU/MO/JU

>

> Planet Deg Sign Speed SA Nakshatra Lord

> ================================================

> Asc 24:43 Cap Dhanishtha Ma

> Sun 19:13 Can +00:57:28 FM Aslesha Me

> Moon 10:01 Tau +12:41:10 WK Rohini Mo

> Mars 29:15 Leo +00:37:24 WK U.Phalguni Su

> Merc 09:00 Can +02:00:15 CM Pushya Sa

> JuptR 07:32 Cap -00:07:27 FM U.Shadya Su

> Ven 08:28 Gem +01:08:02 WK Ardra Ra

> Sat R 02:00 Cap -00:04:07 WK U.Shadya Su

> Rahu 03:58 Leo -00:01:13 FM Magha Ke

> Ketu 03:58 Aqu -00:01:13 FM Dhanishtha Ma

>

> True Node 365.25 Day Year - Internet Time: 267 beats

> Day: Friday Sunrise: 6:08 AM

> Tithi: Krishna Dashami

> Yoga Pt: 2:34 Sg Yogi:Ke AviYogi:Ra Dup Yogi: Ju

> Dagha Rashis: Leo Sco

>

> Sytems Approach Analysis

> ========================

> Sun Good Placement, Weak Dispositor,

> Moon Good Placement, Moon Not Bright 3%,

> Mars Bad Placement, In Old Age: 85%, Weak Dispositor,

> Mercury Good Placement, Combust 28%, Weak Dispositor,

> Jupiter Good Placement, Debilitated,

> Venus Bad Placement,

> Saturn Good Placement, In Infancy: 60%,

> Rahu Bad Placement, Weak Dispositor,

> Ketu Good Placement, Weak Dispositor,

>

> Rashi Chart

> *******************************************************

> ** 11 * * 9 **

> *12* * * * *

> * * * * * *

> * KE 03:58* * * *

> * * * SAR02:00 * * *

> * * 10 JUR07:32 * 8 *

> * * * AS 24:43 * * *

> * * * * * *

> ** * * **

> *1 * 7 *

> ** * * **

> *2 * * * * *

> * * * * * *

> * * * ME 09:00 * * *

> *MO 10:01 * 4 SU 19:13 * 6 *

> * * * * * *

> * * * RA 03:58* *

> * * VE 08:28 * * MA 29:15 * *

> * * * * * *

> ** 3 * * 5 **

> *******************************************************

>

> Navamsha

> *******************************************************

> ** 6 * * 4 **

> *7 * * * * *

> * * * * * *

> * ME * * * *

> * * * * * *

> * * 5 AS * 3 *

> * * * * * *

> ** * * **

> *8 KE * 2 RA *

> ** * * **

> *9 * * * * *

> * * * * * *

> *SU * * * * *

> *MA * 11 * 1 MO *

> *VE * * * * *

> * * * * * *

> * * SAR * * JUR * *

> * * * * * *

> ** 10 * * 12 **

> *******************************************************

>

> Vimshottari Dasha/Buktis (Contemporary)

> =======================================

> Mo/Mo 27.7.1961

> Mo/Ma 27.5.1962

> Mo/Ra 26.12.1962

> Mo/Ju 26.6.1964

> Mo/Sa 26.10.1965

> Mo/Me 28.5.1967

> Mo/Ke 26.10.1968

> Mo/Ve 27.5.1969

> Mo/Su 26.1.1971

> Ma/Ma 28.7.1971

> Ma/Ra 24.12.1971

> Ma/Ju 10.1.1973

> Ma/Sa 17.12.1973

> Ma/Me 26.1.1975

> Ma/Ke 23.1.1976

> Ma/Ve 20.6.1976

> Ma/Su 20.8.1977

> Ma/Mo 26.12.1977

> Ra/Ra 27.7.1978

> Ra/Ju 8.4.1981

> Ra/Sa 2.9.1983

> Ra/Me 9.7.1986

> Ra/Ke 25.1.1989

> Ra/Ve 13.2.1990

> Ra/Su 13.2.1993

> Ra/Mo 7.1.1994

> Ra/Ma 9.7.1995

> Ju/Ju 27.7.1996

> Ju/Sa 14.9.1998

> Ju/Me 27.3.2001

> Ju/Ke 3.7.2003

> Ju/Ve 8.6.2004

> Ju/Su 7.2.2007

> Ju/Mo 26.11.2007

> Ju/Ma 27.3.2009

> Ju/Ra 3.3.2010

> Sa/Sa 27.7.2012

> Sa/Me 31.7.2015

> Sa/Ke 9.4.2018

> Sa/Ve 18.5.2019

> Sa/Su 18.7.2022

> Sa/Mo 30.6.2023

> Sa/Ma 28.1.2025

> Sa/Ra 9.3.2026

> Sa/Ju 13.1.2029

> Me/Me 27.7.2031

> Me/Ke 23.12.2033

> Me/Ve 20.12.2034

> Me/Su 20.10.2037

> Me/Mo 27.8.2038

> Me/Ma 26.1.2040

> Me/Ra 22.1.2041

> Me/Ju 12.8.2043

> Me/Sa 17.11.2045

> Ke/Ke 27.7.2048

> Ke/Ve 23.12.2048

> Ke/Su 22.2.2050

> Ke/Mo 30.6.2050

> Ke/Ma 29.1.2051

> Ke/Ra 27.6.2051

> Ke/Ju 15.7.2052

> Ke/Sa 20.6.2053

> Ke/Me 30.7.2054

> Ve/Ve 28.7.2055

> Ve/Su 26.11.2058

> Ve/Mo 26.11.2059

> Ve/Ma 27.7.2061

> Ve/Ra 26.9.2062

> Ve/Ju 26.9.2065

> Ve/Sa 27.5.2068

> Ve/Me 28.7.2071

> Ve/Ke 27.5.2074

> Su/Su 28.7.2075

> Su/Mo 14.11.2075

> Su/Ma 15.5.2076

> Su/Ra 20.9.2076

> Su/Ju 14.8.2077

> Su/Sa 2.6.2078

> Su/Me 15.5.2079

> Su/Ke 21.3.2080

> Su/Ve 27.7.2080

>

> SAMVA , Cosmologer <cosmologer@> wrote:

> >

> > Hello dear list members,

> > With transit Rahu now in applying conjunction with the most

> effective point of his 7th house, Barack Obama is feeling a

strain

> concerning his spoues:

> >

> > Obama campaign: Wife never used the word 'Whitey'

> > WASHINGTON (AP) - Democrat Barack Obama's campaign said

Thursday

> that

> > Michelle Obama never used the word " whitey " in a speech from the

> > church pulpit

> > http://news./s/ap/20080612/ap_on_el_pr/obama_smears

> >

> > Best,

> > Thor

> >

> > cosmologer <cosmologer@>

> > SAMVA

> > Thursday, June 12, 2008 8:09:26 PM

> > Barack Obama Birth Certificate published

> >

> > Dear friends,

> >

> > Barack Obama's birth time is 7:24 PM - giving a rising degree

of

> 24°

> > 43' Capricorn - according to the following image of his birth

> > certificate:

> >

http://images.dailykos.com/images/user/3/BO_Birth_Certificate.jpg

> >

> > The BC was published on this site, which gives more information

> about

> > it:

> > http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/post/?

> > q=NWVjN2I1MjlhM2ZjZjRjYzBkODAxZjZkZGQyYWNkMDk=

> >

> > Interestingly, the deviation from the earlier cited 7:11 PM

time is

> > 13 minutes. Only a few days ago, Ron Day and I were discussing

this

> > ascendant in terms of SA and ended up considering two times:

> >

> > a) +10 minutes, or 7:21 PM, giving 23° 51' Capricorn rising and

> > b) +21 minutes, or 7:31 PM, giving 27° 02' Capricorn.

> >

> > So, we were quite close to the actual time - assuming the

official

> > time is accurate.

> >

> > In this case we can observe the following:

> >

> > 1) 8th lord SUN at 19° 13' Cancer is outside the MEP of the 7th

> > house, which is very good

> > 2) 4th lord MARS at 29° 15' Leo is inside the MEP of the 8th

house.

> I

> > could add, that as it is in Leo (equivalent of a Sun-like-

house),

> the

> > power of the planet is increased, to 40%. So, its positive

> influence

> > on the 8th house, 11th house, 2nd house of status and 3rd house

of

> > communication, is increased.

> > 3) the nodal station this summer at 24° 30' Capricorn and

Cancer

> will

> > be felt acutely by him.

> >

> > Finally, CONGRATULATIONS to Ron Day for his accurate choice of

a

> late

> > Capricorn ascendant for Barack Obama.

> >

> > Best wishes,

> >

> > Thor

> >

> > SAMVA , " cosmologer " <cosmologer@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Ron,

> > >

> > > It is good to keep in mind that the time 7:11 PM was cited as

> being

> > > based on the Birth Certificate. The plausibility of this

> ascendant,

> > > gives credibility to this information. In view of that,

perhaps a

> > > small deviation from it would be justifiable, say up to 10

> minutes.

> > > This would give 23° 51' Capricorn rising - with the Sun at

the

> very

> > > edge of the MEP. The impact of the affliction would then be

> > expected

> > > to manifest in his life in coming few years. This rising

degree

> > could

> > > also be tested in view of the nodal station this summer at

24°

> 30'.

> > > The closer the rising degree to the nodal station, the

greater

> > would

> > > be the strain on him and his wife. This also sounds

reasonable,

> > given

> > > the campaigning he will have to endure this summer. What do

you

> > think?

> > >

> > > Best,

> > >

> > > Thor

> > > SAMVA , " cosmologer " <cosmologer@>

wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Ron,

> > > >

> > > > You may very well be right. In particular, it is a good

call to

> > > move

> > > > the Ascendant degree back. It will be interesting to study

this

> > > > ascendant more closely for him.

> > > >

> > > > Best wishes,

> > > >

> > > > Thor

> > > >

> > > > SAMVA , RonDay <ronkar@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > >C: 20° 57' Capricorn is rising

> > > > > Jupiter-Moon period is operating<

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Thor,

> > > > > I have written before on the Capricorn rising chart. If

> > ascendant

> > > > is

> > > > > Capricorn the time should be much later IMO.

> > > > >

> > > > > Obama is running on a wave of popularity in the Mo sub

> period.

> > > > Exalted

> > > > > Mo is well placed in 5H (politics). It is also well

placed

> in

> > > the

> > > > D10.

> > > > > This period can give wide recognition in his political

career.

> > > > >

> > > > > >- 8th lord SUN is well placed at 19° 13' Cancer and 7th

> > house.

> > > > The

> > > > > most malefic planet (MMP), the Sun, is conjunct the most

> > > effective

> > > > point

> > > > > (MEP) of the 7th house, which would suggest endings or

> > obstacles

> > > > for 7th

> > > > > house indications, including the spouse. The affliction

to

> 1st

> > > > house of

> > > > > self would also place him at risk of accidents. At the

same

> > time,

> > > > it

> > > > > would give him or his wife a formidable presence and

bring

> > wealth

> > > > > through e.g. inheritance. <

> > > > >

> > > > > This is quite an affliction. I think this orb should be

> > greater.

> > > > There

> > > > > is nothing to suggest that his recent Ju/Su period was

> > > unfavourable.

> > > > >

> > > > > >-10th lord VENUS is weak and badly placed in Gemini and

6th

> > > > house.

> > > > > This placement suggests conflict in career. Such a

placement

> is

> > > > often

> > > > > seen in the charts of politicians who spend a long time

> > advancing

> > > > the

> > > > > cause of contentious matters. The 4 orb aspect from Ketu

in

> the

> > > 2nd

> > > > > house would give periodic setbacks in career. <

> > > > >

> > > > > It is not a good placement for career but can show a

career

> in

> > > > medicine

> > > > > or law.

> > > > > Obama went to law school and worked as an associate

attorney

> > and

> > > > state

> > > > > legislator.

> > > > >

> > > > > >-9th lord MERCURY at 8° 59' in Cancer and the 7th house

> would

> > > be

> > > > good

> > > > > for foreign matters and give a spouse from a good family.

> > > However,

> > > > the

> > > > > aspect from Jupiter and the influence of the Sun could

bring

> > > > > difficulties to married life. <

> > > > >

> > > > > Jupiter's aspect to Mercury shows the early loss of

father.

> > > > >

> > > > > >The Leo ascendant or Capricorn ascendant with Sun

aspecting

> > the

> > > > 1st

> > > > > house MEP could be consistent with taller height but the

> Libra

> > > > ascendant

> > > > > might make him closer to the average.<

> > > > >

> > > > > Saturn in the ascendant can give thin build?

> > > > >

> > > > > You didn't mention Mars but it is an interesting planet

for

> > this

> > > > > ascendant. As the 4th lord in the 8H(research) it shows

his

> > > desire

> > > > to

> > > > > trace his family origins in Africa (4H of ancestors and

> > heritage).

> > > > >

> > > > > This is also a placement for addictions and separation

from

> the

> > > > place of

> > > > > birth.

> > > > > As a young adult he had to reconcile social perceptions

of

> his

> > > > > multiracial heritage He wrote that he used alcohol,

> marijuana,

> > > and

> > > > > cocaine during his teenage years to " push questions of

who I

> > was

> > > > out of

> > > > > my mind " .

> > > > >

> > > > > For the Capricorn ascendant this is an extremely

problematic

> > > Mars.

> > > > He is

> > > > > in danger in the Ju/Ma period starting in February 2009.

A

> > vedic

> > > > > astrologer would recommend remedial measures and have

them

> > > carried

> > > > out.

> > > > >

> > > > > Obama's chart connects very well with the SAMVA USA chart

so

> he

> > > > must

> > > > > resonate very well with the people of the country.

> > > > >

> > > > > There is a possibility that he may become president but

due

> to

> > > > health

> > > > > /longevity issues or conspiracies, deception or intrigues

he

> > may

> > > > have to

> > > > > step down. So even if he becomes president don't count

> Hillary

> > > > Clinton

> > > > > out. She has a strong chart for high office(I use Libra

asc).

> > > This

> > > > may

> > > > > be vice president or president of some other

organization ---

> > > still

> > > > > exceptional in itself. Notwithstanding, I think there is

a

> > strong

> > > > > possibility that HC can become president but in a very

> strange

> > > and

> > > > > convoluted way.

> > > > >

> > > > > The interesting thing about this election is that it is

> > drilling

> > > at

> > > > > America's psyche. Is it the new unknown future or more

> > > conservative

> > > > > future? The next president will certainly have enormous

> > > challenges.

> > > > >

> > > > > Ron

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> > ---

> >

June 14, 2008

Dear Sally,

Glad you appreciate the discussion. Indeed, these are interesting

times politically, not least when new birth information is appearing

for a leading candidate.

You raise a good point with regard to helpful natal placements and

periods in the late Capricorn rising chart for Obama, such that these

would explain his progress to date.

The reason I signalled this transit of Saturn as being of importance

is that I have seen its effect in a chart of a friend who has

Capricorn rising. Shortly after transit Saturn entered Leo his

political support was significantly reduced. Importantly, such an

outcome was predicted by our dear Professor.

In the case of Barack Obama, with 2nd lord Saturn at 2° Capricorn, it

would have 40% strength on account of degree plus 25% on account of

its lordshipof the 2nd house, or 65% in total strength. Morevoer, it

or its house MEP is not afflicted natally, even if Ketu's placement

in the 2nd house could produce some odd disturbances with regard to

his status, e.g. two recent episodes involving mentors in the clergy

creating controversy for him. Perhaps this natal strength of the

prime indicator of status was sufficient to enable him to eek out a

win in the primaries, despite the bad placement in transit of Saturn

and given the favourable sub-period of the Moon. To this we could add

that for most of the first part of 2008, 8th lord Sun, the dispositor

of transit Saturn, has been transiting good houses (H1-H5). Natally,

Sun is also well placed in the 7th house and not afflicting, at least

according to the recent birth information.

Best wishes,

Thor

SAMVA , " Sally Spencer " <sally234 wrote:

>

> Hi Thor,

>

> I appreciate the discussion. This chart, though, with a Saturn in

the first

> and the Jupiter Moon period, looks like it could help with that.

The

> presidency is another story, it seems to me.

>

> Best wishes,

> Sally

>

> On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 10:17 PM, cosmologer <cosmologer wrote:

>

> > My dear ,

> >

> > Thank you for the very helpful assessment.

> >

> > I suppose the late Capricorn rising chart would also not be

> > consistent with him having won the majority of delegates for the

> > nomination in the first half of 2008, primarily due to transit 2nd

> > lord Saturn being in the 8th house of obstacles and endings since

mid

> > 2007.

> >

> > Best wishes,

> >

> > Thor

> >

> > SAMVA , " SIHA " <vkchoudhry@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Hello my dear Thor,

> > >

> > > Assuming that this is his chart, I do not find any chance of his

> > winning the election as President of USA.

> > >

> > > Best wishes.

> > >

> > > -

> > > cosmologer

> > > SAMVA

> > > Saturday, June 14, 2008 12:11 AM

> > > Re: Barack Obama Birth Certificate published

> > >

> > > My dear ,

> > >

> > > Would you have time to comment on the birth chart for Barack

> > Obama,

> > > assuming the correct birth time is close to the 7:24PM stated

on

> > the

> > > birth certificate, giving around 24° 43' Capricorn rising?

> > >

> > > Interestingly, the selection of a birth time for him creates a

> > choice

> > > with regard to two distinct influences in the chart:

> > >

> > > a) NEGATIVE INFLUENCE: if the birth time is a couple of

minutes

> > > earlier than stated in the birth certificate, this gives e.g.

24°

> > 08'

> > > Capricorn rising. The MMP SUN at 19° 13' Capricorn will then

be

> > just

> > > within the 5° orb of the 7th house MEP. This could result in

some

> > > adverse influences in his life in coming years

> > >

> > > b) POSITIVE INFLUENCE: if the birth time is as stated in the

> > birth

> > > certificate or even slightly later, his 4th lord MARS at 29°

15'

> > is

> > > then conjunct his 8th house MEP and aspecting also his 11th

house

> > of

> > > ideals, plans and wishes, 2nd house of wealth and status, 3rd

> > house

> > > of initiative, authorship and voice. A later degree could then

> > > explain his increased status, success with books and giving a

> > clear

> > > message to the public regarding change, hope, etc.

> > >

> > > Finally, assuming you find a likely ascendant degree for him

in

> > late

> > > Capricorn, does that affect your assessment of his chances to

be

> > > elected President of the USA?

> > >

> > > Best wishes,

> > >

> > > Thor

> > >

> > > Barack Obama

> > > Aug 4, 1961 7:24 PM +10:00 HST

> > > Honolulu, HI:USA Longitude: 157W52 Latitude: 21N18

> > > Lahiri Ayanamsha: 23:19 Current Period: JU/MO/JU

> > >

> > > Planet Deg Sign Speed SA Nakshatra Lord

> > > ================================================

> > > Asc 24:43 Cap Dhanishtha Ma

> > > Sun 19:13 Can +00:57:28 FM Aslesha Me

> > > Moon 10:01 Tau +12:41:10 WK Rohini Mo

> > > Mars 29:15 Leo +00:37:24 WK U.Phalguni Su

> > > Merc 09:00 Can +02:00:15 CM Pushya Sa

> > > JuptR 07:32 Cap -00:07:27 FM U.Shadya Su

> > > Ven 08:28 Gem +01:08:02 WK Ardra Ra

> > > Sat R 02:00 Cap -00:04:07 WK U.Shadya Su

> > > Rahu 03:58 Leo -00:01:13 FM Magha Ke

> > > Ketu 03:58 Aqu -00:01:13 FM Dhanishtha Ma

> > >

> > > True Node 365.25 Day Year - Internet Time: 267 beats

> > > Day: Friday Sunrise: 6:08 AM

> > > Tithi: Krishna Dashami

> > > Yoga Pt: 2:34 Sg Yogi:Ke AviYogi:Ra Dup Yogi: Ju

> > > Dagha Rashis: Leo Sco

> > >

> > > Sytems Approach Analysis

> > > ========================

> > > Sun Good Placement, Weak Dispositor,

> > > Moon Good Placement, Moon Not Bright 3%,

> > > Mars Bad Placement, In Old Age: 85%, Weak Dispositor,

> > > Mercury Good Placement, Combust 28%, Weak Dispositor,

> > > Jupiter Good Placement, Debilitated,

> > > Venus Bad Placement,

> > > Saturn Good Placement, In Infancy: 60%,

> > > Rahu Bad Placement, Weak Dispositor,

> > > Ketu Good Placement, Weak Dispositor,

> > >

> > > Rashi Chart

> > > *******************************************************

> > > ** 11 * * 9 **

> > > *12* * * * *

> > > * * * * * *

> > > * KE 03:58* * * *

> > > * * * SAR02:00 * * *

> > > * * 10 JUR07:32 * 8 *

> > > * * * AS 24:43 * * *

> > > * * * * * *

> > > ** * * **

> > > *1 * 7 *

> > > ** * * **

> > > *2 * * * * *

> > > * * * * * *

> > > * * * ME 09:00 * * *

> > > *MO 10:01 * 4 SU 19:13 * 6 *

> > > * * * * * *

> > > * * * RA 03:58* *

> > > * * VE 08:28 * * MA 29:15 * *

> > > * * * * * *

> > > ** 3 * * 5 **

> > > *******************************************************

> > >

> > > Navamsha

> > > *******************************************************

> > > ** 6 * * 4 **

> > > *7 * * * * *

> > > * * * * * *

> > > * ME * * * *

> > > * * * * * *

> > > * * 5 AS * 3 *

> > > * * * * * *

> > > ** * * **

> > > *8 KE * 2 RA *

> > > ** * * **

> > > *9 * * * * *

> > > * * * * * *

> > > *SU * * * * *

> > > *MA * 11 * 1 MO *

> > > *VE * * * * *

> > > * * * * * *

> > > * * SAR * * JUR * *

> > > * * * * * *

> > > ** 10 * * 12 **

> > > *******************************************************

> > >

> > > Vimshottari Dasha/Buktis (Contemporary)

> > > =======================================

> > > Mo/Mo 27.7.1961

> > > Mo/Ma 27.5.1962

> > > Mo/Ra 26.12.1962

> > > Mo/Ju 26.6.1964

> > > Mo/Sa 26.10.1965

> > > Mo/Me 28.5.1967

> > > Mo/Ke 26.10.1968

> > > Mo/Ve 27.5.1969

> > > Mo/Su 26.1.1971

> > > Ma/Ma 28.7.1971

> > > Ma/Ra 24.12.1971

> > > Ma/Ju 10.1.1973

> > > Ma/Sa 17.12.1973

> > > Ma/Me 26.1.1975

> > > Ma/Ke 23.1.1976

> > > Ma/Ve 20.6.1976

> > > Ma/Su 20.8.1977

> > > Ma/Mo 26.12.1977

> > > Ra/Ra 27.7.1978

> > > Ra/Ju 8.4.1981

> > > Ra/Sa 2.9.1983

> > > Ra/Me 9.7.1986

> > > Ra/Ke 25.1.1989

> > > Ra/Ve 13.2.1990

> > > Ra/Su 13.2.1993

> > > Ra/Mo 7.1.1994

> > > Ra/Ma 9.7.1995

> > > Ju/Ju 27.7.1996

> > > Ju/Sa 14.9.1998

> > > Ju/Me 27.3.2001

> > > Ju/Ke 3.7.2003

> > > Ju/Ve 8.6.2004

> > > Ju/Su 7.2.2007

> > > Ju/Mo 26.11.2007

> > > Ju/Ma 27.3.2009

> > > Ju/Ra 3.3.2010

> > > Sa/Sa 27.7.2012

> > > Sa/Me 31.7.2015

> > > Sa/Ke 9.4.2018

> > > Sa/Ve 18.5.2019

> > > Sa/Su 18.7.2022

> > > Sa/Mo 30.6.2023

> > > Sa/Ma 28.1.2025

> > > Sa/Ra 9.3.2026

> > > Sa/Ju 13.1.2029

> > > Me/Me 27.7.2031

> > > Me/Ke 23.12.2033

> > > Me/Ve 20.12.2034

> > > Me/Su 20.10.2037

> > > Me/Mo 27.8.2038

> > > Me/Ma 26.1.2040

> > > Me/Ra 22.1.2041

> > > Me/Ju 12.8.2043

> > > Me/Sa 17.11.2045

> > > Ke/Ke 27.7.2048

> > > Ke/Ve 23.12.2048

> > > Ke/Su 22.2.2050

> > > Ke/Mo 30.6.2050

> > > Ke/Ma 29.1.2051

> > > Ke/Ra 27.6.2051

> > > Ke/Ju 15.7.2052

> > > Ke/Sa 20.6.2053

> > > Ke/Me 30.7.2054

> > > Ve/Ve 28.7.2055

> > > Ve/Su 26.11.2058

> > > Ve/Mo 26.11.2059

> > > Ve/Ma 27.7.2061

> > > Ve/Ra 26.9.2062

> > > Ve/Ju 26.9.2065

> > > Ve/Sa 27.5.2068

> > > Ve/Me 28.7.2071

> > > Ve/Ke 27.5.2074

> > > Su/Su 28.7.2075

> > > Su/Mo 14.11.2075

> > > Su/Ma 15.5.2076

> > > Su/Ra 20.9.2076

> > > Su/Ju 14.8.2077

> > > Su/Sa 2.6.2078

> > > Su/Me 15.5.2079

> > > Su/Ke 21.3.2080

> > > Su/Ve 27.7.2080

> > >

> > > SAMVA , Cosmologer <cosmologer@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Hello dear list members,

> > > > With transit Rahu now in applying conjunction with the most

> > > effective point of his 7th house, Barack Obama is feeling a

> > strain

> > > concerning his spoues:

> > > >

> > > > Obama campaign: Wife never used the word 'Whitey'

> > > > WASHINGTON (AP) - Democrat Barack Obama's campaign said

> > Thursday

> > > that

> > > > Michelle Obama never used the word " whitey " in a speech

from the

> > > > church pulpit

> > > > http://news./s/ap/20080612/ap_on_el_pr/obama_smears

> > > >

> > > > Best,

> > > > Thor

> > > >

> > > > cosmologer <cosmologer@>

> > > > SAMVA

> > > > Thursday, June 12, 2008 8:09:26 PM

> > > > Barack Obama Birth Certificate published

> > > >

> > > > Dear friends,

> > > >

> > > > Barack Obama's birth time is 7:24 PM - giving a rising

degree

> > of

> > > 24°

> > > > 43' Capricorn - according to the following image of his

birth

> > > > certificate:

> > > >

> > http://images.dailykos.com/images/user/3/BO_Birth_Certificate.jpg

> > > >

> > > > The BC was published on this site, which gives more

information

> > > about

> > > > it:

> > > > http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/post/?

> > > > q=NWVjN2I1MjlhM2ZjZjRjYzBkODAxZjZkZGQyYWNkMDk=

> > > >

> > > > Interestingly, the deviation from the earlier cited 7:11 PM

> > time is

> > > > 13 minutes. Only a few days ago, Ron Day and I were

discussing

> > this

> > > > ascendant in terms of SA and ended up considering two times:

> > > >

> > > > a) +10 minutes, or 7:21 PM, giving 23° 51' Capricorn rising

and

> > > > b) +21 minutes, or 7:31 PM, giving 27° 02' Capricorn.

> > > >

> > > > So, we were quite close to the actual time - assuming the

> > official

> > > > time is accurate.

> > > >

> > > > In this case we can observe the following:

> > > >

> > > > 1) 8th lord SUN at 19° 13' Cancer is outside the MEP of the

7th

> > > > house, which is very good

> > > > 2) 4th lord MARS at 29° 15' Leo is inside the MEP of the 8th

> > house.

> > > I

> > > > could add, that as it is in Leo (equivalent of a Sun-like-

> > house),

> > > the

> > > > power of the planet is increased, to 40%. So, its positive

> > > influence

> > > > on the 8th house, 11th house, 2nd house of status and 3rd

house

> > of

> > > > communication, is increased.

> > > > 3) the nodal station this summer at 24° 30' Capricorn and

> > Cancer

> > > will

> > > > be felt acutely by him.

> > > >

> > > > Finally, CONGRATULATIONS to Ron Day for his accurate choice

of

> > a

> > > late

> > > > Capricorn ascendant for Barack Obama.

> > > >

> > > > Best wishes,

> > > >

> > > > Thor

> > > >

> > > > SAMVA , " cosmologer " <cosmologer@>

wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Ron,

> > > > >

> > > > > It is good to keep in mind that the time 7:11 PM was

cited as

> > > being

> > > > > based on the Birth Certificate. The plausibility of this

> > > ascendant,

> > > > > gives credibility to this information. In view of that,

> > perhaps a

> > > > > small deviation from it would be justifiable, say up to 10

> > > minutes.

> > > > > This would give 23° 51' Capricorn rising - with the Sun at

> > the

> > > very

> > > > > edge of the MEP. The impact of the affliction would then

be

> > > > expected

> > > > > to manifest in his life in coming few years. This rising

> > degree

> > > > could

> > > > > also be tested in view of the nodal station this summer at

> > 24°

> > > 30'.

> > > > > The closer the rising degree to the nodal station, the

> > greater

> > > > would

> > > > > be the strain on him and his wife. This also sounds

> > reasonable,

> > > > given

> > > > > the campaigning he will have to endure this summer. What

do

> > you

> > > > think?

> > > > >

> > > > > Best,

> > > > >

> > > > > Thor

> > > > > SAMVA , " cosmologer " <cosmologer@>

> > wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Ron,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You may very well be right. In particular, it is a good

> > call to

> > > > > move

> > > > > > the Ascendant degree back. It will be interesting to

study

> > this

> > > > > > ascendant more closely for him.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Best wishes,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thor

> > > > > >

> > > > > > SAMVA , RonDay <ronkar@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >C: 20° 57' Capricorn is rising

> > > > > > > Jupiter-Moon period is operating<

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Thor,

> > > > > > > I have written before on the Capricorn rising chart.

If

> > > > ascendant

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > Capricorn the time should be much later IMO.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Obama is running on a wave of popularity in the Mo sub

> > > period.

> > > > > > Exalted

> > > > > > > Mo is well placed in 5H (politics). It is also well

> > placed

> > > in

> > > > > the

> > > > > > D10.

> > > > > > > This period can give wide recognition in his political

> > career.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >- 8th lord SUN is well placed at 19° 13' Cancer and

7th

> > > > house.

> > > > > > The

> > > > > > > most malefic planet (MMP), the Sun, is conjunct the

most

> > > > > effective

> > > > > > point

> > > > > > > (MEP) of the 7th house, which would suggest endings or

> > > > obstacles

> > > > > > for 7th

> > > > > > > house indications, including the spouse. The

affliction

> > to

> > > 1st

> > > > > > house of

> > > > > > > self would also place him at risk of accidents. At the

> > same

> > > > time,

> > > > > > it

> > > > > > > would give him or his wife a formidable presence and

> > bring

> > > > wealth

> > > > > > > through e.g. inheritance. <

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > This is quite an affliction. I think this orb should

be

> > > > greater.

> > > > > > There

> > > > > > > is nothing to suggest that his recent Ju/Su period was

> > > > > unfavourable.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >-10th lord VENUS is weak and badly placed in Gemini

and

> > 6th

> > > > > > house.

> > > > > > > This placement suggests conflict in career. Such a

> > placement

> > > is

> > > > > > often

> > > > > > > seen in the charts of politicians who spend a long

time

> > > > advancing

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > cause of contentious matters. The 4 orb aspect from

Ketu

> > in

> > > the

> > > > > 2nd

> > > > > > > house would give periodic setbacks in career. <

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > It is not a good placement for career but can show a

> > career

> > > in

> > > > > > medicine

> > > > > > > or law.

> > > > > > > Obama went to law school and worked as an associate

> > attorney

> > > > and

> > > > > > state

> > > > > > > legislator.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >-9th lord MERCURY at 8° 59' in Cancer and the 7th

house

> > > would

> > > > > be

> > > > > > good

> > > > > > > for foreign matters and give a spouse from a good

family.

> > > > > However,

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > aspect from Jupiter and the influence of the Sun could

> > bring

> > > > > > > difficulties to married life. <

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Jupiter's aspect to Mercury shows the early loss of

> > father.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >The Leo ascendant or Capricorn ascendant with Sun

> > aspecting

> > > > the

> > > > > > 1st

> > > > > > > house MEP could be consistent with taller height but

the

> > > Libra

> > > > > > ascendant

> > > > > > > might make him closer to the average.<

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Saturn in the ascendant can give thin build?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You didn't mention Mars but it is an interesting

planet

> > for

> > > > this

> > > > > > > ascendant. As the 4th lord in the 8H(research) it

shows

> > his

> > > > > desire

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > trace his family origins in Africa (4H of ancestors

and

> > > > heritage).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > This is also a placement for addictions and separation

> > from

> > > the

> > > > > > place of

> > > > > > > birth.

> > > > > > > As a young adult he had to reconcile social

perceptions

> > of

> > > his

> > > > > > > multiracial heritage He wrote that he used alcohol,

> > > marijuana,

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > cocaine during his teenage years to " push questions of

> > who I

> > > > was

> > > > > > out of

> > > > > > > my mind " .

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > For the Capricorn ascendant this is an extremely

> > problematic

> > > > > Mars.

> > > > > > He is

> > > > > > > in danger in the Ju/Ma period starting in February

2009.

> > A

> > > > vedic

> > > > > > > astrologer would recommend remedial measures and have

> > them

> > > > > carried

> > > > > > out.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Obama's chart connects very well with the SAMVA USA

chart

> > so

> > > he

> > > > > > must

> > > > > > > resonate very well with the people of the country.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > There is a possibility that he may become president

but

> > due

> > > to

> > > > > > health

> > > > > > > /longevity issues or conspiracies, deception or

intrigues

> > he

> > > > may

> > > > > > have to

> > > > > > > step down. So even if he becomes president don't count

> > > Hillary

> > > > > > Clinton

> > > > > > > out. She has a strong chart for high office(I use

Libra

> > asc).

> > > > > This

> > > > > > may

> > > > > > > be vice president or president of some other

> > organization ---

> > > > > still

> > > > > > > exceptional in itself. Notwithstanding, I think there

is

> > a

> > > > strong

> > > > > > > possibility that HC can become president but in a very

> > > strange

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > convoluted way.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The interesting thing about this election is that it

is

> > > > drilling

> > > > > at

> > > > > > > America's psyche. Is it the new unknown future or more

> > > > > conservative

> > > > > > > future? The next president will certainly have

enormous

> > > > > challenges.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Ron

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > ---

> > > >

June 15, 2008

Okay, well I'm glad we moved on to McCain, because he is the one that looks the most promising so far, with either chart.Thanks. SallyOh and let's not forget besides his Saturn status, we have his ninth lord in the seventh. And the exalted dispositor Moon, makes his wife equally attractive to the public.

On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 12:31 AM, cosmologer <cosmologer wrote: