Rectifying an authentic chart for Russia

August 24, 2008

Dear friends,

My investigations are continuing into the authentic chart for Russia.

As noted earlier, the chart for the Union of Russia and Belarus offers a rather benign view of the country. That said, due to fewer functional malefics of a Gemini ascendant it is more demanding to find a match for all significant events. But this is the requirement of SA and if any chart does not explain a single significant event, it should raise serious questions about its authenticity. The final arbiter is the predictive efficacy of the chart. Does it serve as a basis for repeat accurate predictions? As noted earlier, we have a major prediction coming up for the Union chart in mid September. More about this below.

First, let me mention another chart, I have been studying. It is the event when Boris Yeltsin made the declaration of the Minsk Agreement at 7:45 pm on December 8, 1991 in Minsk. Using the Moscow as location, we obtain a very different chart with Cancer rising. This event has been equated with Russian independence. At that time, it is clear the Russian government had full sovereign powers at its disposal.

In my blog on the Union of Russia and Belarus, I suggest that "While this date may have had relevance it is possible its significance has been usurped by latter developments." Only a successful test of the Union chart with accurate predictions can verify this claim.

Alternatively, as we know, the Cancer ascendant has, in addition to the nodes as functional malefics, the slow moving planets SATURN and JUPITER, which can result if many significant events if natally afflicting. As such, it is much easier to explain past events with a Cancer rising sign than that of Gemini. This is one reason some mundane astrologers have found many more charts with functional malefics when testing with respect to transit hits involving FMs.

In any event, the 10° 28' Cancer rising chart for this event has 8th lord SATURN at 9° 42' Capricorn and in the MEP of the 7th house, afflicting the 9th house, 1st house and 4th house as well as 4th lord VENUS at 9° 01' Libra and 4th house. This is a major affliction, with obstacles and endings likely to be prominent in the early history. 1st lord MOON is also badly placed at 20° 10 Sagittarius and 6th house receiving the aspect of 6th lord JUPITER at 20° 06 Leo and 2nd house. This would make Russia exceptional inflexible and likely to engage in conflict. As that were not enough, the MOON is also conjunct RAHU at 16° 07 Sagittarius, further adding to the difficulty, by giving the country a tendency for self-delusion. With RAHU also in mutual aspect with 6th lord JUPITER, crises are likely associated with conflict and violence. The Minsk Agreement chart thus gives a completely different view of RUSSIA

from that of the Union chart. It suggests there will be a significant tendency for Russia to get involved in conflict and that it may bring harm to others through such actions, especially its foreign policy, which will eventually bring harm to itself. The foreign policy and conflict will also be very upsetting for the communal harmony. A bright spot is the placement of 10th lord MARS at 13° 06' Scorpio and 5th house, albeit slightly blemished by combustion. Mars aspects the 5th house, 8th house, 11th house and 12th house. Even more important, is the supremely favourable conjunction of 3rd lord MERCURY and 2nd lord SUN at 22° Scorpio in the 5th house. The planets, so combined, would give Russia a ruling disposition, characterised by creative approaches to problems. These positives need to be evaluated in terms of the challenging aspects noted earlier.

There are two recent wars in Chechnya that warrant examination in this regard, the First Checen War from 1994 to 1996 and the Second Checen War from 1999 to 2000. Both wars suggest two things. The Russians applied brutal force but the harm was then rediriected to the Russian population through a series of bloody terrorist attacks. International condemnation of the brutal war also developed. As a result, the Russians got fed up with the first war and sued for peace. Putin then resumed the effort to control the region and unleashed another brutal result and reclaimed the main cities of Chechnya. In August 7, Russia then invaded another country, Georgia, to assert control of two break-away regions, South Ossetia and Abkhazia. It still maintains control of these and other areas of Georgia.

FIRST CHECHEN WAR

The First Chechen War also known as the War in Chechnya was fought between Russia and Chechnya from 1994 to 1996 and resulted in Chechnya's de facto independence from Russia as the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria.

After the initial campaign of 1994–1995, culminating in the devastating Battle of Grozny, Russian federal forces attempted to control the mountainous area of Chechnya but were set back by Chechen guerrilla warfare and raids on the flatlands in spite of Russia's overwhelming manpower, weaponry, and air support. The resulting widespread demoralization of federal forces, and the almost universal opposition of the Russian public to the brutal conflict, led Boris Yeltsin's government to declare a ceasefire in 1996 and sign a peace treaty a year later.

The official figure for Russian military losses is 5,500, while most estimates put the number between 3,500 and 7,500, one as high as 14,000. Although there are no accurate figures for the number of Chechen militants killed, the official Russian estimate puts the number at about 15,000. Chechen separatists claim no more than 3,000. Various figures estimate the number of civilian deaths between 50,000 - 100,000, and over 200,000 injured. More than 500,000 persons were displaced by the conflict,[5] as cities and villages across the republic were left in ruins.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Chechen_War

http://www.russiansabroad.com/russian_history_330.html

Astrological influences: Venus - SATURN period was operating. Transit KETU at 20° Aries in aspect to natal JUPITER at 20° Leo and MOON at 20° Sagittarius. Transit 6th lord JUPITER at 6° Scorpio, thus aspecting the 5th, 9th, 11th and 1st houses. Transit 8th lord SATURN at 12° 46' Aquarius and 8th house under aspect from natal KETU at 16° Gemini in 12th house. Transit SATURN aspecting 10th, 2nd and 5th houses.

SECOND CHECHEN WAR

The Second Chechen War, in a later phase better known as the War in the North Caucasus, was launched by the Russian Federation starting August 26, 1999 (under the brand new President Putin), in which Russian federal forces largely re-took control of the separatist region of Chechnya.

The Second Chechen War was started in response to the Invasion of Dagestan by the IIPB, and the Russian apartment bombings which Russia blamed on Chechen separatists, although no evidence linking Chechens with the bombings has been released to the public. The campaign largely reversed the outcome of the First Chechen War, in which the region gained de facto independence as the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria. Although it is regarded by many as an internal conflict within the Russian Federation, the war attracted a large number of Jihadist foreign fighters.

During the initial campaign, Russian military and pro-Russian Chechen paramilitary faced Chechen separatists in open combat, and seized the Chechen capital Grozny after a winter siege that lasted from late 1999 to the following February. Russia established direct rule of Chechnya in May 2000 and after the full-scale offensive, Chechen guerrilla resistance throughout the North Caucasus region continued to inflict heavy Russian casualties and challenge Russian political control over Chechnya for several more years. Some Chechen rebels also carried out terrorist attacks against civilians in Russia. These terrorist

attacks, as well as widespread human rights violations by Russian and rebel forces, drew international condemnation.

Russia has severely disabled the Chechen rebel movement, although violence still occurs throughout the North Caucasus. Large-scale fighting has been replaced by guerrilla warfare and bombings targeting federal troops and forces of the regional government, with the violence more often spilling over into adjacent regions since 2005. The exact death toll from this conflict is unknown. Unofficial estimates range from 25,000 - 50,000 dead or missing, mostly civilians in Chechnya. No clear figures for Russian losses are known to the public. Both Chechen wars remain largely unpublicized abroad.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Chechen_War

Astrological influences: Venus-MERCURY is operating on August 26, 1999. Transit RAHU at 19° Cancer and 1st house is afflicting natal 3rd lord MERCURY and natal 2nd lord SUN at 22° Scorpio and 5th house. Transit 6th lord JUPITER is conjunct 10th house MEP and aspects, 2nd, 4th and 6th houses. Transit 8th lord SATURN at 23° Aries is in wide 10th house aspect to transit KETU at 19° Capricorn and 7th house. Transit 8th lord SATURN also receives an aspect from natal 6th lord JUPITER at 20° Leo and 2nd house.

RUSSIA INVADES GEORGIA

The 2008 South Ossetia War was a land, sea and air war fought between the Republic of Georgia, on one side, and the separatist regions, South Ossetia and Abkhazia, and the Russian Federation, on the other. It began on August 7, 2008 with a surprise attack by Georgia into its break-away province of South Ossetia that followed a series of clashes between Georgian and South Ossetian forces.

A preliminary ceasefire was signed by Georgia and Russia on 15 August 2008. The Russian military has announced a ten-day withdrawal from advance positions, while Georgian authorities have expressed discontent with the rate and extent of the pull-back, and with the continuing Russian presence in port of Poti.

The number of refugees from South Ossetia fleeing into Russia reached an estimated 30,000 of the 70,000 overall population. Meanwhile by 18 August, about 68,000 ethnic Georgians had fled their homes due to the conflict,[21].

Some western governments have to varying degrees condemned Russian involvement, while Russia has accused the West of double standards in the light of recent Balkan politics and NATO expansion in Eastern Europe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_South_Ossetia_war

Astrological influences: Moon/Mars period is operating on August 7, 2008. The transits in the 10° Cancer chart show transit 6th lord JUPITER exactly conjunct natal MOON. Transit stationary KETU at 24° 34' Cancer and 1st house afflicts closely natal 3rd lord MERCURY and 2nd lord SUN at 22° Scorpio and 5th house. as well as transit SUN at 21° Cancer. Meanwhile, transit 8th lord SATURN at 14° Leo and 2nd house is closely afflicted by natal RAHU at 16° Sagittarius and 6th house. Sub-period lord, 10th lord Mars, was in old age in the sign of Leo and 2nd house, with its dispositor both afflicted natally and in transit. This is a rather strong match with the events and natal potential.

Looking forward, with an eye to making a prediction, this chart suggests that we could expect more violence in September, when transit 6th lord JUPITER at 18° 39' Sagittarius continues closely conjunct natal 1st lord MOON at 20° 10' and FM RAHU at 16° 07' Sagittarius. It will then also aspect transit 8th lord SATURN at 19° 24' Leo. To add to the tension, transit SATURN will have become exactly conjunct natal JUPITER at 20° Leo at that time. Meanwhile, MARS, MERCURY and VENUS will have moved into the aspect of transit stationary RAHU at 24° Capricorn and 7th house.

In short, this chart is as bad as the Gemini chart is good. The view of RUSSIA is completely changed. However, this chart speaks of more violence ahead, while the Gemini chart suggests severe problems in the area of communal harmony in mid September 2008. It will be interesting to see which chart does a better job of explaining the events. I certainly hope the Union chart wins, but that is by no means certain, given the easy fit this chart offers with historical events.

Best wishes,

Thor

August 24, 2008

Dear members,

I'm sure that the chart for the Union of Russia and Belarus should

not be used for any prognoses. Russia is an independent country

created on 12/06/1990 and it is not " an union " . All political

relations with Belarus are formal and these relations have not

transformed to something more...

Kind regards,

Ananta

August 24, 2008

Dear Ananta,

Thank you for the information and advice. It is good to have feedback

from a Russian (?) list members on this question.

As far as I have been able to tell, this issue is not straight

forward, at least when considering the information cited in

the blog. That said, the issue of an authentic chart for Russia has

not been settled on this list in terms of SA and I would be happy to

explore further other dates, including the one proposed by you. So

far, I have considered the dates in August 1991 and have not found

them to offer a convincing match. In addition to the Union chart,

whose legitemacy is doubted by you, we have considered also the

declaration of the Minsk Agreement in December 1991. As for the event

suggested by you, the following is written in Campion's " The Book of

World Horoscopes "

RUSSIAN SOVEREIGNITY

" The Russian parliament declared the sovereignity of the Russian

Federative Republic within the USSR on 12 June 1990, at approximately

9:45 [am] GMT. This is a critical moment on the path to Russian

independence and the breakup of the Soviet Union, marking the

assertion of the Russian Republic's right to control its own internal

affairs independently of the Soviet government. "

In footnote 1166 which accompanies this entry it is noted that the

time is an estimate. The chart that results has 2° Virgo rising and

is not credible. An earlier time is therefore more likely, say 9:30

or earlier, giving late Leo rising. Such an ascendant would appear

more fitting than a Virgo ascendant for Russia. That said, much work

remains to examine this time in terms of SA and then, given an

acceptable match for natal potential and history, some predictions

could be made. As I do not have the time to devote to this until

later, I encourage interested list members to make the effort,

especially list members from Russia, who have most to gain from the

discovery of an authentic chart for this country.

Best wishes,

Thor

SAMVA , " anantavijnyana " <non-dual wrote:

>

> Dear members,

>

> I'm sure that the chart for the Union of Russia and Belarus should

> not be used for any prognoses. Russia is an independent country

> created on 12/06/1990 and it is not " an union " . All political

> relations with Belarus are formal and these relations have not

> transformed to something more...

>

> Kind regards,

>

> Ananta

>

August 24, 2008

Dear Thor,

It seems to me that the time 13:45 is working quite reasonably in the

12/06/1990 chart. Personally I've used it for many years and all events of

modern history of Russia are there...

Regards,

Ananta

SAMVA , " cosmologer " <cosmologer wrote:

>

> Dear Ananta,

>

> Thank you for the information and advice. It is good to have feedback

> from a Russian (?) list members on this question.

>

> As far as I have been able to tell, this issue is not straight

> forward, at least when considering the information cited in

> the blog. That said, the issue of an authentic chart for Russia has

> not been settled on this list in terms of SA and I would be happy to

> explore further other dates, including the one proposed by you. So

> far, I have considered the dates in August 1991 and have not found

> them to offer a convincing match. In addition to the Union chart,

> whose legitemacy is doubted by you, we have considered also the

> declaration of the Minsk Agreement in December 1991. As for the event

> suggested by you, the following is written in Campion's " The Book of

> World Horoscopes "

>

> RUSSIAN SOVEREIGNITY

> " The Russian parliament declared the sovereignity of the Russian

> Federative Republic within the USSR on 12 June 1990, at approximately

> 9:45 [am] GMT. This is a critical moment on the path to Russian

> independence and the breakup of the Soviet Union, marking the

> assertion of the Russian Republic's right to control its own internal

> affairs independently of the Soviet government. "

>

> In footnote 1166 which accompanies this entry it is noted that the

> time is an estimate. The chart that results has 2° Virgo rising and

> is not credible. An earlier time is therefore more likely, say 9:30

> or earlier, giving late Leo rising. Such an ascendant would appear

> more fitting than a Virgo ascendant for Russia. That said, much work

> remains to examine this time in terms of SA and then, given an

> acceptable match for natal potential and history, some predictions

> could be made. As I do not have the time to devote to this until

> later, I encourage interested list members to make the effort,

> especially list members from Russia, who have most to gain from the

> discovery of an authentic chart for this country.

>

> Best wishes,

>

> Thor

>

> SAMVA , " anantavijnyana " <non-dual@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear members,

> >

> > I'm sure that the chart for the Union of Russia and Belarus should

> > not be used for any prognoses. Russia is an independent country

> > created on 12/06/1990 and it is not " an union " . All political

> > relations with Belarus are formal and these relations have not

> > transformed to something more...

> >

> > Kind regards,

> >

> > Ananta

> >

>

August 24, 2008

Dear friends,

As follow up to my last message - here is the information on the event/date suggested by Ananta - with a provisional adjustment of this time to give Leo ascendant. Please note that 1st lord SUN at 27° 25' Taurus is in MEP of 10th house. 5th lord JUPITER at 21° 29' Gemini is in MEP of 11th house and 3rd lord VENUS at 21° 22' Aries is in MEP of 9th house. The nodes are in 6th and 12th houses, which is not helpful but away from the MEP. However, 12th lord MOON at 11° 22' Capricorn and 6th house is conjunct FM RAHU 14° 20' Capricorn, suggesting crisis from conflict. FM KETU in 12th house closely afflicts 9th lord MARS at 15° 03 Pisces in the 8th house, which would undermine the position of VENUS.

The chart has good and bad points and in terms of natal potential appears to fall somewhere in between the Union chart and the Minsk Agreement chart in terms of bene-/maleficience. However, a more detailed study awaits....

Best wishes,

Thor

Russia Sovereignity

Jun 12, 1990 1:00 PM -04:00 R3T

Moscow, USSR Longitude: 37E35 Latitude: 55N45

Lahiri Ayanamsha: 23:43 Current Period: RA/RA/SU

Planet Deg Sign Speed SA Nakshatra Lord

================================================

Asc 24:58 Leo P.Phalguni Ve

Sun 27:25 Tau +00:57:20 WK Mrigsira Ma

Moon 11:22 Cap +12:28:36 FM Shravana Mo

Mars 15:03 Pis +00:43:20 WK U.Bhadra Sa

Merc 06:49 Tau +01:34:11 WK Krittika Su

Jupt 21:29 Gem +00:12:53 ST Punarvasu Ju

Ven 21:22 Ari +01:10:23 WK Bharani Ve

Sat R 00:29 Cap -00:03:18 WK U.Shadya Su

Rahu 14:20 Cap -00:00:21 FM Shravana Mo

Ketu 14:20 Can -00:00:21 FM Pushya Sa

True Node 365.25 Day Year - Internet Time: 417 beats

Day: Tuesday Sunrise: 4:46 AM

Tithi: Krishna Chaturthi

Yoga Pt: 12:07 Ge Yogi:Ra AviYogi:Ve Dup Yogi: Me

Dagha Rashis: Tau Aqu

Sytems Approach Analysis

========================

Sun Good Placement, In Old Age: 48%,

Moon Bad Placement, Bright,

Mars Bad Placement,

Mercury Good Placement, Debilitated in Navamsha,

Jupiter Good Placement,

Venus Good Placement, Weak Dispositor,

Saturn Bad Placement, In Infancy: 90%,

Rahu Bad Placement,

Ketu Bad Placement, Weak Dispositor,

Rashi Chart

*******************************************************

** 6 * * 4 **

*7 * * * * *

* * * * * *

* * * KE 14:20* *

* * * * * *

* * 5 AS 24:58 * 3 JU 21:29*

* * * * * *

** * * ME 06:49 **

*8 * 2 SU 27:25 *

** * * **

*9 * * * * *

* * * * * *

* * 11 * 1 VE 21:22*

* * * * * *

* SAR00:29* * * *

* * MO 11:22 * * MA 15:03 * *

* * RA 14:20 * * * *

* * * * * *

** 10 * * 12 **

*******************************************************

Navamsha

*******************************************************

** 9 * * 7 **

*10* * * * *

* * * * * *

* * * VE * *

* * * AS * * *

*SAR * 8 MA * 6 SU *

* * * KE * * *

* * * * * *

** * * **

*11 * 5 *

** * * **

*12* * * * *

* * * * * *

*ME * 2 RA * 4 *

* * * * * *

* MO * * * *

* * JU * * * *

* * * * * *

** 1 * * 3 **

*******************************************************

Vimshottari Dasha/Buktis

========================

Mo/Ma 31.3.1990

Mo/Ra 30.10.1990

Mo/Ju 30.4.1992

Mo/Sa 30.8.1993

Mo/Me 1.4.1995

Mo/Ke 30.8.1996

Mo/Ve 31.3.1997

Mo/Su 30.11.1998

Ma/Ma 1.6.1999

Ma/Ra 28.10.1999

Ma/Ju 14.11.2000

Ma/Sa 21.10.2001

Ma/Me 30.11.2002

Ma/Ke 27.11.2003

Ma/Ve 24.4.2004

Ma/Su 24.6.2005

Ma/Mo 30.10.2005

Ra/Ra 31.5.2006

Ra/Ju 10.2.2009

Ra/Sa 7.7.2011

Ra/Me 13.5.2014

Ra/Ke 29.11.2016

Ra/Ve 18.12.2017

Ra/Su 18.12.2020

Ra/Mo 11.11.2021

Ra/Ma 13.5.2023

Ju/Ju 31.5.2024

Ju/Sa 19.7.2026

Ju/Me 29.1.2029

Ju/Ke 7.5.2031

Ju/Ve 12.4.2032

Ju/Su 12.12.2034

Ju/Mo 30.9.2035

Ju/Ma 29.1.2037

Ju/Ra 5.1.2038

Sa/Sa 31.5.2040

Sa/Me 4.6.2043

Sa/Ke 11.2.2046

Sa/Ve 22.3.2047

Sa/Su 22.5.2050

Sa/Mo 4.5.2051

Sa/Ma 2.12.2052

Sa/Ra 11.1.2054

Sa/Ju 17.11.2056

Me/Me 31.5.2059

Me/Ke 27.10.2061

Me/Ve 24.10.2062

Me/Su 24.8.2065

Me/Mo 1.7.2066

Me/Ma 30.11.2067

Me/Ra 26.11.2068

Me/Ju 16.6.2071

Me/Sa 21.9.2073

Ke/Ke 31.5.2076

Ke/Ve 27.10.2076

Ke/Su 27.12.2077

Ke/Mo 4.5.2078

Ke/Ma 3.12.2078

Ke/Ra 1.5.2079

Ke/Ju 19.5.2080

Ke/Sa 24.4.2081

Ke/Me 3.6.2082

Ve/Ve 1.6.2083

Ve/Su 30.9.2086

Ve/Mo 30.9.2087

Ve/Ma 31.5.2089

Ve/Ra 31.7.2090

Ve/Ju 31.7.2093

Ve/Sa 31.3.2096

Ve/Me 1.6.2099

Ve/Ke 1.4.2102

Su/Su 2.6.2103

Su/Mo 19.9.2103

Su/Ma 20.3.2104

Su/Ra 26.7.2104

Su/Ju 19.6.2105

Su/Sa 7.4.2106

Su/Me 20.3.2107

Su/Ke 25.1.2108

Su/Ve 1.6.2108

cosmologer <cosmologerSAMVA Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2008 9:14:26 PM Re: Rectifying an authentic chart for RussiaDear Ananta,Thank you for the information and advice. It is good to have feedback from a Russian (?) list members on this question.As far as I have been able to tell, this issue is not straight forward, at least when considering the information cited in the blog. That said, the issue of an authentic chart for Russia has not been settled on this list in terms of SA and I would be happy to explore further other dates, including the one proposed by you. So far, I have considered the dates in August 1991 and have not found them to offer a convincing match. In addition to the Union chart, whose legitemacy is doubted by you,

we have considered also the declaration of the Minsk Agreement in December 1991. As for the event suggested by you, the following is written in Campion's "The Book of World Horoscopes" RUSSIAN SOVEREIGNITY"The Russian parliament declared the sovereignity of the Russian Federative Republic within the USSR on 12 June 1990, at approximately 9:45 [am] GMT. This is a critical moment on the path to Russian independence and the breakup of the Soviet Union, marking the assertion of the Russian Republic's right to control its own internal affairs independently of the Soviet government."In footnote 1166 which accompanies this entry it is noted that the time is an estimate. The chart that results has 2° Virgo rising and is not credible. An earlier time is therefore more likely, say 9:30 or earlier, giving late Leo rising. Such an ascendant would appear more fitting than a Virgo ascendant for

Russia. That said, much work remains to examine this time in terms of SA and then, given an acceptable match for natal potential and history, some predictions could be made. As I do not have the time to devote to this until later, I encourage interested list members to make the effort, especially list members from Russia, who have most to gain from the discovery of an authentic chart for this country.Best wishes,ThorSAMVA , "anantavijnyana" <non-dual wrote:>> Dear members,> > I'm sure that the chart for the Union of Russia and Belarus should > not be used for any prognoses. Russia is an independent country > created on 12/06/1990 and it is not "an union". All political > relations with Belarus are formal and these relations have not >

transformed to something more...> > Kind regards,> > Ananta>---

August 25, 2008

Dear Ananta,

Good to hear.

I have two questions related to your work with this chart on basis of Virgo ascendant: Have you analysed the natal potential of this chart in terms of SA? Have you made predictions against it?

When I find the time, I will look into what these charts (Leo and Virgo) imply for mid September 2008 - so that we may have a more objective basis by which to evaluate them. Meanwhile, if you or other list members have time to venture an oppinion, that would be helpful.

Best wishes,

Thor

anantavijnyana <non-dualSAMVA Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2008 9:28:39 PM Re: Rectifying an authentic chart for RussiaDear Thor,It seems to me that the time 13:45 is working quite reasonably in the 12/06/1990 chart. Personally I've used it for many years and all events of modern history of Russia are there...Regards,AnantaSAMVA , "cosmologer" <cosmologer wrote:>> Dear Ananta,> > Thank you for the information and advice. It is good to have feedback > from a Russian (?) list members on this question.> > As far as I have been able to tell, this issue is not straight >

forward, at least when considering the information cited in > the blog. That said, the issue of an authentic chart for Russia has > not been settled on this list in terms of SA and I would be happy to > explore further other dates, including the one proposed by you. So > far, I have considered the dates in August 1991 and have not found > them to offer a convincing match. In addition to the Union chart, > whose legitemacy is doubted by you, we have considered also the > declaration of the Minsk Agreement in December 1991. As for the event > suggested by you, the following is written in Campion's "The Book of > World Horoscopes" > > RUSSIAN SOVEREIGNITY> "The Russian parliament declared the sovereignity of the Russian > Federative Republic within the USSR on 12 June 1990, at approximately > 9:45 [am] GMT. This is a critical moment on the path to Russian

> independence and the breakup of the Soviet Union, marking the > assertion of the Russian Republic's right to control its own internal > affairs independently of the Soviet government."> > In footnote 1166 which accompanies this entry it is noted that the > time is an estimate. The chart that results has 2° Virgo rising and > is not credible. An earlier time is therefore more likely, say 9:30 > or earlier, giving late Leo rising. Such an ascendant would appear > more fitting than a Virgo ascendant for Russia. That said, much work > remains to examine this time in terms of SA and then, given an > acceptable match for natal potential and history, some predictions > could be made. As I do not have the time to devote to this until > later, I encourage interested list members to make the effort, > especially list members from Russia, who have most to gain from

the > discovery of an authentic chart for this country.> > Best wishes,> > Thor> > > SAMVA , "anantavijnyana" <non-dual@> wrote:> >> > Dear members,> > > > I'm sure that the chart for the Union of Russia and Belarus should > > not be used for any prognoses. Russia is an independent country > > created on 12/06/1990 and it is not "an union". All political > > relations with Belarus are formal and these relations have not > > transformed to something more...> > > > Kind regards,> > > > Ananta> >>---

August 25, 2008

Dear SAMVA listers:Two points:I agree with Ananta's interpretation, on the question of the significance of the event of June 12, 1990 for the sovereign birth of post-Soviet Russia.The source of the time moment of 13:45 hrs is Campion. It is an 'estimated' TOB; not the actual reported moment. The actual time may be as much as 30 (clock) minutes earlier.John--- On Sun, 8/24/08, Cosmologer <cosmologer wrote:Cosmologer <cosmologerRe: Re: Rectifying an authentic chart for RussiaSAMVA Date: Sunday, August 24, 2008, 6:49 PM

Dear Ananta,

Good to hear.

I have two questions related to your work with this chart on basis of Virgo ascendant: Have you analysed the natal potential of this chart in terms of SA? Have you made predictions against it?

When I find the time, I will look into what these charts (Leo and Virgo) imply for mid September 2008 - so that we may have a more objective basis by which to evaluate them. Meanwhile, if you or other list members have time to venture an oppinion, that would be helpful.

Best wishes,

Thor

anantavijnyana <non-dual (AT) ya (DOT) ru>SAMVA Sunday, August 24, 2008 9:28:39 PM Re: Rectifying an authentic chart for RussiaDear Thor,It seems to me that the time 13:45 is working quite reasonably in the 12/06/1990 chart. Personally I've used it for many years and all events of modern history of Russia are there...Regards,AnantaSAMVA , "cosmologer" <cosmologer@. ..> wrote:>> Dear Ananta,> > Thank you for the information and advice. It is good to have feedback > from a Russian (?) list members on this question.> > As far as I have been able to tell, this issue is not straight >

forward, at least when considering the information cited in > the blog. That said, the issue of an authentic chart for Russia has > not been settled on this list in terms of SA and I would be happy to > explore further other dates, including the one proposed by you. So > far, I have considered the dates in August 1991 and have not found > them to offer a convincing match. In addition to the Union chart, > whose legitemacy is doubted by you, we have considered also the > declaration of the Minsk Agreement in December 1991. As for the event > suggested by you, the following is written in Campion's "The Book of > World Horoscopes" > > RUSSIAN SOVEREIGNITY> "The Russian parliament declared the sovereignity of the Russian > Federative Republic within the USSR on 12 June 1990, at approximately > 9:45 [am] GMT. This is a critical moment on the path to Russian

> independence and the breakup of the Soviet Union, marking the > assertion of the Russian Republic's right to control its own internal > affairs independently of the Soviet government."> > In footnote 1166 which accompanies this entry it is noted that the > time is an estimate. The chart that results has 2° Virgo rising and > is not credible. An earlier time is therefore more likely, say 9:30 > or earlier, giving late Leo rising. Such an ascendant would appear > more fitting than a Virgo ascendant for Russia. That said, much work > remains to examine this time in terms of SA and then, given an > acceptable match for natal potential and history, some predictions > could be made. As I do not have the time to devote to this until > later, I encourage interested list members to make the effort, > especially list members from Russia, who have most to gain from

the > discovery of an authentic chart for this country.> > Best wishes,> > Thor> > > SAMVA , "anantavijnyana" <non-dual@> wrote:> >> > Dear members,> > > > I'm sure that the chart for the Union of Russia and Belarus should > > not be used for any prognoses. Russia is an independent country > > created on 12/06/1990 and it is not "an union". All political > > relations with Belarus are formal and these relations have not > > transformed to something more...> > > > Kind regards,> > > > Ananta> >>------------ --------- --------- ------

August 25, 2008

Dear Thor,

My approch is totally based on traditional Indian astrology (including

Jamini astrology) and I do not think in terms of SA. As I said I've

used this Russian chart for many times, but of course I do not

guarantee that 13:45 is 100% correct. At the same time, the Lagna in

Virgo works much better then Leo.

Kind regards,

Ananta

SAMVA , JohnTWB <blazingstar1776 wrote:

>

> Dear SAMVA listers:

>

> Two points:

>

> I agree with Ananta's interpretation, on the question of the

significance of the event of June 12, 1990 for the sovereign birth of

post-Soviet Russia.

>

> The source of the time moment of 13:45 hrs is Campion. It is an

'estimated' TOB; not the actual reported moment. The actual time may

be as much as 30 (clock) minutes earlier.

>

> John

>

> --- On Sun, 8/24/08, Cosmologer <cosmologer wrote:

> Cosmologer <cosmologer

> Re: Re: Rectifying an authentic chart for Russia

> SAMVA

> Sunday, August 24, 2008, 6:49 PM

>

Dear Ananta,

>

> Good to hear.

>

> I have two questions related to your work with this chart on basis

of Virgo ascendant: Have you analysed the natal potential of

this chart in terms of SA? Have you made predictions against it?

>

> When I find the time, I will look into what these charts (Leo and

Virgo) imply for mid September 2008 - so that we may have a more

objective basis by which to evaluate them. Meanwhile, if you or other

list members have time to venture an oppinion, that would be helpful.

>

> Best wishes,

>

> Thor

>

> anantavijnyana <non-dual (AT) ya (DOT) ru>

> SAMVA

> Sunday, August 24, 2008 9:28:39 PM

> Re: Rectifying an authentic chart for Russia

>

> Dear Thor,

>

> It seems to me that the time 13:45 is working quite reasonably in

the

> 12/06/1990 chart. Personally I've used it for many years and all

events of

> modern history of Russia are there...

>

> Regards,

>

> Ananta

>

> SAMVA , " cosmologer " <cosmologer@ ..> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Ananta,

> >

> > Thank you for the information and advice. It is good to have

feedback

> > from a Russian (?) list members on this question.

> >

> > As far as I have been able to tell, this issue is not straight

> >

> forward, at least when considering the information cited in

> > the blog. That said, the issue of an authentic chart for Russia

has

> > not been settled on this list in terms of SA and I would be happy

to

> > explore further other dates, including the one proposed by you. So

> > far, I have considered the dates in August 1991 and have not found

> > them to offer a convincing match. In addition to the Union chart,

> > whose legitemacy is doubted by you, we have considered also the

> > declaration of the Minsk Agreement in December 1991. As for the

event

> > suggested by you, the following is written in Campion's " The Book

of

> > World Horoscopes "

> >

> > RUSSIAN SOVEREIGNITY

> > " The Russian parliament declared the sovereignity of the Russian

> > Federative Republic within the USSR on 12 June 1990, at

approximately

> > 9:45 [am] GMT. This is a critical moment on the path to Russian

>

> > independence and the breakup of the Soviet Union, marking the

> > assertion of the Russian Republic's right to control its own

internal

> > affairs independently of the Soviet government. "

> >

> > In footnote 1166 which accompanies this entry it is noted that the

> > time is an estimate. The chart that results has 2° Virgo rising

and

> > is not credible. An earlier time is therefore more likely, say

9:30

> > or earlier, giving late Leo rising. Such an ascendant would appear

> > more fitting than a Virgo ascendant for Russia. That said, much

work

> > remains to examine this time in terms of SA and then, given an

> > acceptable match for natal potential and history, some predictions

> > could be made. As I do not have the time to devote to this until

> > later, I encourage interested list members to make the effort,

> > especially list members from Russia, who have most to gain from

> the

> > discovery of an authentic chart for this country.

> >

> > Best wishes,

> >

> > Thor

> >

> > SAMVA , " anantavijnyana " <non-dual@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear members,

> > >

> > > I'm sure that the chart for the Union of Russia and Belarus

should

> > > not be used for any prognoses. Russia is an independent country

> > > created on 12/06/1990 and it is not " an union " . All political

> > > relations with Belarus are formal and these relations have not

> > > transformed to something more...

> > >

> > > Kind regards,

> > >

> > > Ananta

> > >

> >

>

> ------------ --------- --------- ------

>

August 25, 2008

Dear John,

Thanks for your considered oppinion on the nature of the June 12,

1990 event and the scope for moving the time earlier.

As far as I can read the facts, the sovereignity of Russia was being

established at that time within the context of the Soviet Union.

Still the Soviet Union continued to exist until they were formally

abolished in December 1991. It would therefore seem doubtful that

this event mertis being considered a " post-Soviet birth " of Russia.

However, it is surely one of the events of importance in the birth of

Russia as Ananta, you and Campion suggest. However, it is one of

several possible events. From the scientific point of view I prefer

to let the astrological inquiry establish the authenticity but

assuredly on the basis of a credible rationale for historical

legitimacy.

So far, we have three dates that merit further astrological

investigation:

1. Russian Sovereignity on June 12, 1990, at 13:15-13:45 am, Moscow

with late Leo or early Virgo rising.

2. Russian Independence declared on December 8, 1991 at 7:45 pm,

Mosocow with 10° Cancer rising (note: Minsk Agreement signed on

December 8, 1991 at 2:17 pm, Minsk). Difficult chart, good fit with

major significant historical events. September 2008 may see suddent

setbacks to government and further conflict and violence.

3. Treaty of Union of Russia and Belarus signed on April 2, 1996 at

11:18 am, Moscow, with 20° Gemini rising. Benign chart, good

fit with some significant historical events but some events require a

complicated explanation. Mid September 2008 may see significant

setback for domestic peace and fixed assets.

Thanks for your input.

Best wishes,

Thor

SAMVA , JohnTWB <blazingstar1776 wrote:

>

> Dear SAMVA listers:

>

> Two points:

>

> I agree with Ananta's interpretation, on the question of the

significance of the event of June 12, 1990 for the sovereign birth of

post-Soviet Russia.

>

> The source of the time moment of 13:45 hrs is Campion. It is

an 'estimated' TOB; not the actual reported moment. The actual time

may be as much as 30 (clock) minutes earlier.

>

> John

>

> --- On Sun, 8/24/08, Cosmologer <cosmologer wrote:

> Cosmologer <cosmologer

> Re: Re: Rectifying an authentic chart for Russia

> SAMVA

> Sunday, August 24, 2008, 6:49 PM

>

Dear Ananta,

>

> Good to hear.

>

> I have two questions related to your work with this chart on basis

of Virgo ascendant: Have you analysed the natal potential of

this chart in terms of SA? Have you made predictions against it?

>

> When I find the time, I will look into what these charts (Leo and

Virgo) imply for mid September 2008 - so that we may have a more

objective basis by which to evaluate them. Meanwhile, if you or other

list members have time to venture an oppinion, that would be helpful.

>

> Best wishes,

>

> Thor

>

> anantavijnyana <non-dual (AT) ya (DOT) ru>

> SAMVA

> Sunday, August 24, 2008 9:28:39 PM

> Re: Rectifying an authentic chart for Russia

>

> Dear Thor,

>

> It seems to me that the time 13:45 is working quite reasonably in

the

> 12/06/1990 chart. Personally I've used it for many years and all

events of

> modern history of Russia are there...

>

> Regards,

>

> Ananta

>

> SAMVA , " cosmologer " <cosmologer@ ..> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Ananta,

> >

> > Thank you for the information and advice. It is good to have

feedback

> > from a Russian (?) list members on this question.

> >

> > As far as I have been able to tell, this issue is not straight

> >

> forward, at least when considering the information cited in

> > the blog. That said, the issue of an authentic chart for Russia

has

> > not been settled on this list in terms of SA and I would be happy

to

> > explore further other dates, including the one proposed by you.

So

> > far, I have considered the dates in August 1991 and have not

found

> > them to offer a convincing match. In addition to the Union chart,

> > whose legitemacy is doubted by you, we have considered also the

> > declaration of the Minsk Agreement in December 1991. As for the

event

> > suggested by you, the following is written in Campion's " The Book

of

> > World Horoscopes "

> >

> > RUSSIAN SOVEREIGNITY

> > " The Russian parliament declared the sovereignity of the Russian

> > Federative Republic within the USSR on 12 June 1990, at

approximately

> > 9:45 [am] GMT. This is a critical moment on the path to Russian

>

> > independence and the breakup of the Soviet Union, marking the

> > assertion of the Russian Republic's right to control its own

internal

> > affairs independently of the Soviet government. "

> >

> > In footnote 1166 which accompanies this entry it is noted that

the

> > time is an estimate. The chart that results has 2° Virgo rising

and

> > is not credible. An earlier time is therefore more likely, say

9:30

> > or earlier, giving late Leo rising. Such an ascendant would

appear

> > more fitting than a Virgo ascendant for Russia. That said, much

work

> > remains to examine this time in terms of SA and then, given an

> > acceptable match for natal potential and history, some

predictions

> > could be made. As I do not have the time to devote to this until

> > later, I encourage interested list members to make the effort,

> > especially list members from Russia, who have most to gain from

> the

> > discovery of an authentic chart for this country.

> >

> > Best wishes,

> >

> > Thor

> >

> > SAMVA , " anantavijnyana " <non-dual@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear members,

> > >

> > > I'm sure that the chart for the Union of Russia and Belarus

should

> > > not be used for any prognoses. Russia is an independent country

> > > created on 12/06/1990 and it is not " an union " . All political

> > > relations with Belarus are formal and these relations have not

> > > transformed to something more...

> > >

> > > Kind regards,

> > >

> > > Ananta

> > >

> >

>

> ------------ --------- --------- ------

>

August 25, 2008

Dear Ananta,

Thank you for the clarification on your approach.

In what way do you find that the Virgo chart works much better? Is it

better

a) to explain historical events or recent events or

b) for making accurate predictions?

Best wishes,

Thor

SAMVA , " anantavijnyana " <non-dual wrote:

>

> Dear Thor,

>

> My approch is totally based on traditional Indian astrology

(including

> Jamini astrology) and I do not think in terms of SA. As I said I've

> used this Russian chart for many times, but of course I do not

> guarantee that 13:45 is 100% correct. At the same time, the Lagna

in

> Virgo works much better then Leo.

>

> Kind regards,

>

> Ananta

>

> SAMVA , JohnTWB <blazingstar1776@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear SAMVA listers:

> >

> > Two points:

> >

> > I agree with Ananta's interpretation, on the question of the

> significance of the event of June 12, 1990 for the sovereign birth

of

> post-Soviet Russia.

> >

> > The source of the time moment of 13:45 hrs is Campion. It is an

> 'estimated' TOB; not the actual reported moment. The actual time

may

> be as much as 30 (clock) minutes earlier.

> >

> > John

> >

> > --- On Sun, 8/24/08, Cosmologer <cosmologer@> wrote:

> > Cosmologer <cosmologer@>

> > Re: Re: Rectifying an authentic chart for Russia

> > SAMVA

> > Sunday, August 24, 2008, 6:49 PM

> >

> > Dear Ananta,

> >

> > Good to hear.

> >

> > I have two questions related to your work with this chart on

basis

> of Virgo ascendant: Have you analysed the natal potential of

> this chart in terms of SA? Have you made predictions against it?

> >

> > When I find the time, I will look into what these charts (Leo and

> Virgo) imply for mid September 2008 - so that we may have a more

> objective basis by which to evaluate them. Meanwhile, if you or

other

> list members have time to venture an oppinion, that would be

helpful.

> >

> > Best wishes,

> >

> > Thor

> >

> > anantavijnyana <non-dual (AT) ya (DOT) ru>

> > SAMVA

> > Sunday, August 24, 2008 9:28:39 PM

> > Re: Rectifying an authentic chart for Russia

> >

> > Dear Thor,

> >

> > It seems to me that the time 13:45 is working quite reasonably in

> the

> > 12/06/1990 chart. Personally I've used it for many years and all

> events of

> > modern history of Russia are there...

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> > Ananta

> >

> > SAMVA , " cosmologer " <cosmologer@ ..>

wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Ananta,

> > >

> > > Thank you for the information and advice. It is good to have

> feedback

> > > from a Russian (?) list members on this question.

> > >

> > > As far as I have been able to tell, this issue is not straight

> > >

> > forward, at least when considering the information cited in

> > > the blog. That said, the issue of an authentic chart for Russia

> has

> > > not been settled on this list in terms of SA and I would be

happy

> to

> > > explore further other dates, including the one proposed by you.

So

> > > far, I have considered the dates in August 1991 and have not

found

> > > them to offer a convincing match. In addition to the Union

chart,

> > > whose legitemacy is doubted by you, we have considered also the

> > > declaration of the Minsk Agreement in December 1991. As for the

> event

> > > suggested by you, the following is written in Campion's " The

Book

> of

> > > World Horoscopes "

> > >

> > > RUSSIAN SOVEREIGNITY

> > > " The Russian parliament declared the sovereignity of the

Russian

> > > Federative Republic within the USSR on 12 June 1990, at

> approximately

> > > 9:45 [am] GMT. This is a critical moment on the path to Russian

> >

> > > independence and the breakup of the Soviet Union, marking the

> > > assertion of the Russian Republic's right to control its own

> internal

> > > affairs independently of the Soviet government. "

> > >

> > > In footnote 1166 which accompanies this entry it is noted that

the

> > > time is an estimate. The chart that results has 2° Virgo rising

> and

> > > is not credible. An earlier time is therefore more likely, say

> 9:30

> > > or earlier, giving late Leo rising. Such an ascendant would

appear

> > > more fitting than a Virgo ascendant for Russia. That said, much

> work

> > > remains to examine this time in terms of SA and then, given an

> > > acceptable match for natal potential and history, some

predictions

> > > could be made. As I do not have the time to devote to this

until

> > > later, I encourage interested list members to make the effort,

> > > especially list members from Russia, who have most to gain from

> > the

> > > discovery of an authentic chart for this country.

> > >

> > > Best wishes,

> > >

> > > Thor

> > >

> > > SAMVA , " anantavijnyana " <non-dual@>

wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear members,

> > > >

> > > > I'm sure that the chart for the Union of Russia and Belarus

> should

> > > > not be used for any prognoses. Russia is an independent

country

> > > > created on 12/06/1990 and it is not " an union " . All political

> > > > relations with Belarus are formal and these relations have

not

> > > > transformed to something more...

> > > >

> > > > Kind regards,

> > > >

> > > > Ananta

> > > >

> > >

> >

> > ------------ --------- --------- ------

> >

August 25, 2008

Dear SAMVA listers:

The RUSSIA sovereignty rectified chart is:

Please check SAMVA messages # 7404, Oct 12, 2004, and # 9783, Dec 9, 2005.

On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 5:10 AM, JohnTWB <blazingstar1776 wrote:

Dear SAMVA listers:Two points:I agree with Ananta's interpretation, on the question of the significance of the event of June 12, 1990 for the sovereign birth of post-Soviet Russia.

The source of the time moment of 13:45 hrs is Campion. It is an 'estimated' TOB; not the actual reported moment. The actual time may be as much as 30 (clock) minutes earlier.John--- On Sun, 8/24/08, Cosmologer <cosmologer wrote:

Cosmologer <cosmologerRe: Re: Rectifying an authentic chart for Russia

SAMVA Date: Sunday, August 24, 2008, 6:49 PM

Dear Ananta,

Good to hear.

I have two questions related to your work with this chart on basis of Virgo ascendant: Have you analysed the natal potential of this chart in terms of SA? Have you made predictions against it?

When I find the time, I will look into what these charts (Leo and Virgo) imply for mid September 2008 - so that we may have a more objective basis by which to evaluate them. Meanwhile, if you or other list members have time to venture an oppinion, that would be helpful.

Best wishes,

Thor

anantavijnyana <non-dual (AT) ya (DOT) ru>SAMVA Sunday, August 24, 2008 9:28:39 PM

Re: Rectifying an authentic chart for RussiaDear Thor,It seems to me that the time 13:45 is working quite reasonably in the 12/06/1990 chart. Personally I've used it for many years and all events of

modern history of Russia are there...Regards,AnantaSAMVA , " cosmologer " <cosmologer@. ..> wrote:

>> Dear Ananta,> > Thank you for the information and advice. It is good to have feedback > from a Russian (?) list members on this question.> > As far as I have been able to tell, this issue is not straight

> forward, at least when considering the information cited in > the blog. That said, the issue of an authentic chart for Russia has > not been settled on this list in terms of SA and I would be happy to

> explore further other dates, including the one proposed by you. So > far, I have considered the dates in August 1991 and have not found > them to offer a convincing match. In addition to the Union chart,

> whose legitemacy is doubted by you, we have considered also the > declaration of the Minsk Agreement in December 1991. As for the event > suggested by you, the following is written in Campion's " The Book of

> World Horoscopes " > > RUSSIAN SOVEREIGNITY> " The Russian parliament declared the sovereignity of the Russian > Federative Republic within the USSR on 12 June 1990, at approximately

> 9:45 [am] GMT. This is a critical moment on the path to Russian > independence and the breakup of the Soviet Union, marking the > assertion of the Russian Republic's right to control its own internal

> affairs independently of the Soviet government. " > > In footnote 1166 which accompanies this entry it is noted that the > time is an estimate. The chart that results has 2Â° Virgo rising and

> is not credible. An earlier time is therefore more likely, say 9:30 > or earlier, giving late Leo rising. Such an ascendant would appear > more fitting than a Virgo ascendant for Russia. That said, much work

> remains to examine this time in terms of SA and then, given an > acceptable match for natal potential and history, some predictions > could be made. As I do not have the time to devote to this until

> later, I encourage interested list members to make the effort, > especially list members from Russia, who have most to gain from the > discovery of an authentic chart for this country.> > Best wishes,

> > Thor> > > SAMVA , " anantavijnyana " <non-dual@> wrote:> >> > Dear members,

> > > > I'm sure that the chart for the Union of Russia and Belarus should > > not be used for any prognoses. Russia is an independent country > > created on 12/06/1990 and it is not " an union " . All political

> > relations with Belarus are formal and these relations have not > > transformed to something more...> > > > Kind regards,> > > > Ananta> >>

------------ --------- --------- ------

August 25, 2008

Dear Thor,

I think that a correct lagna allows both to clarify historical events

and make accurate predictions. Anyway Moon in the chart of Russia is

in Capricorn with Rahu and retrograde Saturn and you can analyze all

events from that point of view. If you wish to look at Virgo lagna

more in details you can, for instance, consider the Mahadasha of Mars

(16.02.1999 & #8211; 15.02.2006) when all serious terrorist acts occurred.

All events will be correctly explained astrologicaly. You can also look

at the Mahadasha of Moon (Moon-Sun in 17.08.1998) when the hard

economic crisis destroyed Russian financial system & #8230;

Kind regards,

Ananta

SAMVA , " cosmologer " <cosmologer wrote:

>

> Dear Ananta,

>

> Thank you for the clarification on your approach.

>

> In what way do you find that the Virgo chart works much better? Is

it

> better

>

> a) to explain historical events or recent events or

> b) for making accurate predictions?

>

> Best wishes,

>

> Thor

>

> SAMVA , " anantavijnyana " <non-dual@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Thor,

> >

> > My approch is totally based on traditional Indian astrology

> (including

> > Jamini astrology) and I do not think in terms of SA. As I said

I've

> > used this Russian chart for many times, but of course I do not

> > guarantee that 13:45 is 100% correct. At the same time, the Lagna

> in

> > Virgo works much better then Leo.

> >

> > Kind regards,

> >

> > Ananta

> >

> > SAMVA , JohnTWB <blazingstar1776@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear SAMVA listers:

> > >

> > > Two points:

> > >

> > > I agree with Ananta's interpretation, on the question of the

> > significance of the event of June 12, 1990 for the sovereign birth

> of

> > post-Soviet Russia.

> > >

> > > The source of the time moment of 13:45 hrs is Campion. It is an

> > 'estimated' TOB; not the actual reported moment. The actual time

> may

> > be as much as 30 (clock) minutes earlier.

> > >

> > > John

> > >

> > > --- On Sun, 8/24/08, Cosmologer <cosmologer@> wrote:

> > > Cosmologer <cosmologer@>

> > > Re: Re: Rectifying an authentic chart for Russia

> > > SAMVA

> > > Sunday, August 24, 2008, 6:49 PM

> > >

> > > Dear Ananta,

> > >

> > > Good to hear.

> > >

> > > I have two questions related to your work with this chart on

> basis

> > of Virgo ascendant: Have you analysed the natal potential of

> > this chart in terms of SA? Have you made predictions against it?

> > >

> > > When I find the time, I will look into what these charts (Leo

and

> > Virgo) imply for mid September 2008 - so that we may have a more

> > objective basis by which to evaluate them. Meanwhile, if you or

> other

> > list members have time to venture an oppinion, that would be

> helpful.

> > >

> > > Best wishes,

> > >

> > > Thor

> > >

> > > anantavijnyana <non-dual (AT) ya (DOT) ru>

> > > SAMVA

> > > Sunday, August 24, 2008 9:28:39 PM

> > > Re: Rectifying an authentic chart for Russia

> > >

> > > Dear Thor,

> > >

> > > It seems to me that the time 13:45 is working quite reasonably

in

> > the

> > > 12/06/1990 chart. Personally I've used it for many years and all

> > events of

> > > modern history of Russia are there...

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > >

> > > Ananta

> > >

> > > SAMVA , " cosmologer " <cosmologer@ ..>

> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Ananta,

> > > >

> > > > Thank you for the information and advice. It is good to have

> > feedback

> > > > from a Russian (?) list members on this question.

> > > >

> > > > As far as I have been able to tell, this issue is not straight

> > > >

> > > forward, at least when considering the information cited in

> > > > the blog. That said, the issue of an authentic chart for

Russia

> > has

> > > > not been settled on this list in terms of SA and I would be

> happy

> > to

> > > > explore further other dates, including the one proposed by

you.

> So

> > > > far, I have considered the dates in August 1991 and have not

> found

> > > > them to offer a convincing match. In addition to the Union

> chart,

> > > > whose legitemacy is doubted by you, we have considered also

the

> > > > declaration of the Minsk Agreement in December 1991. As for

the

> > event

> > > > suggested by you, the following is written in Campion's " The

> Book

> > of

> > > > World Horoscopes "

> > > >

> > > > RUSSIAN SOVEREIGNITY

> > > > " The Russian parliament declared the sovereignity of the

> Russian

> > > > Federative Republic within the USSR on 12 June 1990, at

> > approximately

> > > > 9:45 [am] GMT. This is a critical moment on the path to Russian

> > >

> > > > independence and the breakup of the Soviet Union, marking the

> > > > assertion of the Russian Republic's right to control its own

> > internal

> > > > affairs independently of the Soviet government. "

> > > >

> > > > In footnote 1166 which accompanies this entry it is noted that

> the

> > > > time is an estimate. The chart that results has 2° Virgo

rising

> > and

> > > > is not credible. An earlier time is therefore more likely, say

> > 9:30

> > > > or earlier, giving late Leo rising. Such an ascendant would

> appear

> > > > more fitting than a Virgo ascendant for Russia. That said,

much

> > work

> > > > remains to examine this time in terms of SA and then, given an

> > > > acceptable match for natal potential and history, some

> predictions

> > > > could be made. As I do not have the time to devote to this

> until

> > > > later, I encourage interested list members to make the effort,

> > > > especially list members from Russia, who have most to gain from

> > > the

> > > > discovery of an authentic chart for this country.

> > > >

> > > > Best wishes,

> > > >

> > > > Thor

> > > >

> > > > SAMVA , " anantavijnyana " <non-dual@>

> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear members,

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm sure that the chart for the Union of Russia and Belarus

> > should

> > > > > not be used for any prognoses. Russia is an independent

> country

> > > > > created on 12/06/1990 and it is not " an union " . All

political

> > > > > relations with Belarus are formal and these relations have

> not

> > > > > transformed to something more...

> > > > >

> > > > > Kind regards,

> > > > >

> > > > > Ananta

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > ------------ --------- --------- ------

> > >

August 25, 2008

Dear Ananta,

In SAMVA we certainly emphasise that any rectification be based on three steps:

1. A reading of the natal potential as per SA

2. That transit and period influences as per 1. are able to explain all significant historical events

3. That the chart be tested with predictions. Only once there have been repeat successful predictions may the chart be considered authentic.

As for the issue of a Virgo ascendant based on the events in the early afternoon of June 12, 1990, we can make the following observation with regard to the natal potential of the ca. 0-2° 28' Virgo rising chart:

A. the 2nd lord VENUS at 21° Aries is placed in the 8th house while 8th lord MARS at 15° Pisces is placed in the 7th house under the aspect of FM KETU at 14° Cancer in the 11th house.

Reading: Russia would not have much status internationally. The 2nd house indications of a) wealth, b) status and c) relations with neighboring countries are shown to be under considerable strain and vulnerable to repeat setbacks.

B. 6th lord SATURN at 0° 29' Capircorn and in MEP of 5th house (speculation), from where it aspects the 7th house (foreign affairs), the 11th house (income and goals) and 2nd house (wealth, relations with neighbors).

Reading: This placement would make Russia liable to conflict concerning the indications of these houses.

C. If the time were closer to 1:30 pm, with the Virgo rising degree closer to 0° or even 1° this would place 12th lord SUN at 27° 28' Taurus into the MEP of the 10th house.

Reading: This placement would make Russia liable to losses in foreign trade and the excecutive part of government.

D. 1st lord MERCURY at 6° 57' Taurus and in the MEP of the 9th house, thereby aspecting the 3rd house.

Reading: This placement would give Russia luck during the periods of Mercury, a sense of pride in its own history and a willingness to rule.

E. 4th lord JUPITER at 21° Gemini and 10th house.

Reading: This placement would give Russia was lands and generally domestic harmony.

F. 11th lord MOON at 11° 45' Capricorn and 5th house conjunct FM RAHU at 14° 20'.

Reading: This placement would give Russia a tendency for manipulation when it comes to income and goals. There could be setbacks during transit afflictions to income or goals.

Certainly, A. and B. are suggestive of the wars in Chechnya and Georgia - as well as the tense relations with pro-western Ukraine, Czech Republic and Poland.

D. and E. would be helpful for domestic peace and luck and explain willingness to rule.

F. is likely also consistent with a lot of manipulation in regard to the oil revenues and tussle with the oligarchs.

Overall, there is some support for Russia in this chart, but the plaement of Venus appears questionable.

It will have to wait to examine this chart in terms of 2. and then make predictions (3.).

Best wishes,

Thor

anantavijnyana <non-dualSAMVA Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 10:39:43 AM Re: Rectifying an authentic chart for RussiaDear Thor,I think that a correct lagna allows both to clarify historical events and make accurate predictions. Anyway Moon in the chart of Russia is in Capricorn with Rahu and retrograde Saturn and you can analyze all events from that point of view. If you wish to look at Virgo lagna more in details you can, for instance, consider the Mahadasha of Mars (16.02.1999 – 15.02.2006) when all serious terrorist acts occurred. All events will be correctly explained astrologicaly. You can also look at the Mahadasha of Moon (Moon-Sun in 17.08.1998) when the hard economic crisis destroyed Russian financial system…Kind

regards,AnantaSAMVA , "cosmologer" <cosmologer wrote:>> Dear Ananta,> > Thank you for the clarification on your approach. > > In what way do you find that the Virgo chart works much better? Is it > better > > a) to explain historical events or recent events or > b) for making accurate predictions?> > Best wishes,> > Thor> > SAMVA , "anantavijnyana" <non-dual@> wrote:> >> > Dear Thor,> > > > My approch is totally based on traditional Indian astrology > (including > > Jamini astrology) and I do not think in terms of SA. As I said I've

> > used this Russian chart for many times, but of course I do not > > guarantee that 13:45 is 100% correct. At the same time, the Lagna > in > > Virgo works much better then Leo.> > > > Kind regards,> > > > Ananta> > > > > > > > > > SAMVA , JohnTWB <blazingstar1776@> wrote:> > >> > > Dear SAMVA listers:> > > > > > Two points:> > > > > > I agree with Ananta's interpretation, on the question of the > > significance of the event of June 12, 1990 for the sovereign birth > of > > post-Soviet Russia.> > > > > > The source of the time moment of 13:45 hrs is Campion. It is an > >

'estimated' TOB; not the actual reported moment. The actual time > may > > be as much as 30 (clock) minutes earlier.> > > > > > John> > > > > > --- On Sun, 8/24/08, Cosmologer <cosmologer@> wrote:> > > Cosmologer <cosmologer@>> > > Re: Re: Rectifying an authentic chart for Russia> > > SAMVA > > > Sunday, August 24, 2008, 6:49 PM> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Ananta,> > > > > > Good to hear. > > >

> > > I have two questions related to your work with this chart on > basis > > of Virgo ascendant: Have you analysed the natal potential of > > this chart in terms of SA? Have you made predictions against it? > > > > > > When I find the time, I will look into what these charts (Leo and > > Virgo) imply for mid September 2008 - so that we may have a more > > objective basis by which to evaluate them. Meanwhile, if you or > other > > list members have time to venture an oppinion, that would be > helpful.> > > > > > Best wishes,> > > > > > Thor> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > anantavijnyana <non-dual (AT) ya (DOT) ru>> > > To:

SAMVA > > > Sunday, August 24, 2008 9:28:39 PM> > > Re: Rectifying an authentic chart for Russia> > > > > > Dear Thor,> > > > > > It seems to me that the time 13:45 is working quite reasonably in > > the > > > 12/06/1990 chart. Personally I've used it for many years and all > > events of > > > modern history of Russia are there...> > > > > > Regards,> > > > > > Ananta> > > > > > > > > SAMVA , "cosmologer" <cosmologer@ ..> > wrote:> > > >> > > > Dear Ananta,> > > > > > > > Thank you for the information and advice. It is good to have > > feedback > > > > from a Russian (?) list

members on this question.> > > > > > > > As far as I have been able to tell, this issue is not straight > > > >> > > forward, at least when considering the information cited in > > > > the blog. That said, the issue of an authentic chart for Russia > > has > > > > not been settled on this list in terms of SA and I would be > happy > > to > > > > explore further other dates, including the one proposed by you. > So > > > > far, I have considered the dates in August 1991 and have not > found > > > > them to offer a convincing match. In addition to the Union > chart, > > > > whose legitemacy is doubted by you, we have considered also the > > > > declaration of the Minsk Agreement in December 1991. As for the >

> event > > > > suggested by you, the following is written in Campion's "The > Book > > of > > > > World Horoscopes" > > > > > > > > RUSSIAN SOVEREIGNITY> > > > "The Russian parliament declared the sovereignity of the > Russian > > > > Federative Republic within the USSR on 12 June 1990, at > > approximately > > > > 9:45 [am] GMT. This is a critical moment on the path to Russian> > > > > > > independence and the breakup of the Soviet Union, marking the > > > > assertion of the Russian Republic's right to control its own > > internal > > > > affairs independently of the Soviet government."> > > > > > > > In footnote 1166 which accompanies this entry it is noted that > the > > >

> time is an estimate. The chart that results has 2° Virgo rising > > and > > > > is not credible. An earlier time is therefore more likely, say > > 9:30 > > > > or earlier, giving late Leo rising. Such an ascendant would > appear > > > > more fitting than a Virgo ascendant for Russia. That said, much > > work > > > > remains to examine this time in terms of SA and then, given an > > > > acceptable match for natal potential and history, some > predictions > > > > could be made. As I do not have the time to devote to this > until > > > > later, I encourage interested list members to make the effort, > > > > especially list members from Russia, who have most to gain from> > > the > > > > discovery of an authentic chart for this

country.> > > > > > > > Best wishes,> > > > > > > > Thor> > > > > > > > > > > > SAMVA , "anantavijnyana" <non-dual@> > wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Dear members,> > > > > > > > > > I'm sure that the chart for the Union of Russia and Belarus > > should > > > > > not be used for any prognoses. Russia is an independent > country > > > > > created on 12/06/1990 and it is not "an union". All political > > > > > relations with Belarus are formal and these relations have > not > > > > > transformed to something more...> > > > > > > > > > Kind regards,> > > > > > > > >

> Ananta> > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------> > > > > >

August 26, 2008

Dear list members,

In the early Virgo chart for Russian Sovereignity, it is easy to explain with transit and period influences the financial crisis which peaked around 17-19 August 1998 (in Mo/Su period) and the terrorist attacks on 16 February 1999 (in Ma/Ma period) and 15 February 2006 (in Ra/Ra period).

This chart suggests some difficulty in early September, when transit 8th lord MARS in Virgo and 1st house becomes natal MARS in Capricorn and 7th house and comes under aspect of major- and sub-period lord RAHU in the 5th house.

Nothing of note is seen to occur for the rest of the month.

Best wishes,

Thor

Cosmologer <cosmologerSAMVA Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 1:24:17 PMRe: Re: Rectifying an authentic chart for Russia