Guest guest Posted August 31, 2008 Report Share Posted August 31, 2008 Dear friends, I have been looking at John McCain's early life experiences in an effort to rectify his chart. The times quoted for him, the source for both being his mother is 9.00 am (according to a McCain staffer) and 11.00 am, which she herself says is the time, "I think". In any event, she woke up and told her husband the baby was coming. The could have awoken early, but the transport to the hospital and preparation for the birth would have taken some more time. So, the time could be anywhere from 9.00 am to 11.00 (or even later). In any event, I am thinking that as he has Libra rising and has endured major trauma in his life there should be active afflictions in his chart and in transit at the time the traum was experienced. I find this by moving the natal FM Rahu and Ketu into the MEP range. With a birth time of 9:55 he obtains 8° 42' Libra rising. This is a tentative finding. See the attached graphs with information in the text box. July 29, 1967: is in his plane on the deck of the Forrestal airplane carrier when a fire breaks out. He narrowly escapes death, injured, while also trying to save another pilot. October 26, 1967: Is shot down, after diving to release his bomb on target even after hearing that his plane has been locked on. He is severely injured in the crash and also afterwards. Almost dies. August 1968: subject to systematic physical torture to sign a confession. Almost dies. March 14, 1973: released as POW. Becomes highly decorated upon his return. I find that Rahu-Ketu period was running in 1967, with nodes afflicting massively natally and also transit planets. He is in Rahu-Venus period when shot down and tortured, with other aspects at work. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McCain http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_life_and_military_career_of_John_McCain#Prisoner_of_war I´d be interested in other views on this issue of his rising degree. Best wishes, Thor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2008 Report Share Posted September 1, 2008 Dear Vyas, Your point is very good. However, let me explain my dilemma in making the selction. As RAHU and KETU are at 8°29' Sagittarius/H3 and Gemini/H9 and MERCURY is at 9° 20' Virgo/H12. The only affliction is an over 4° orb aspect from Rahu to a very strong 11th lord Sun in the 11th house. This is not enough to explain the phenomenal and multi year trauma that he suffered. To my mind, the only possible explanation would have to be that these FMs are somewhere with the MEPs. To the full extent, this would place the rising degree somewhere between 3° 30' to 13° 29'. However, when we also consider that his major trauma occurred in his 31st year, we could reduce the orb to 3°, giving a possible range of 5° 30' to 11° 30' for the rising degree. I worked with these degrees, and the closest fit I got with the periods was 8° 42'. That said, I am not sure of that finding, because as you point out, this would implies that some severe difficulty could have been experienced from birth. Logically, either 5° 30' (time 9:42 am) or 11° 30' (time 10:06 am) Libra could then be examined as the actual degree. You or someone else want to take another look? Best wishes, Thor SAMVA , " Vyas Munidas " <muni> wrote: > > Dear Thor, > > It appears to me that a short, rather than medium/long, lifespan would be > most likely with this degree. > > > Best regards, > > Vyas Munidas > > - > " Cosmologer " <cosmologer > <samva > > Sunday, August 31, 2008 5:02 PM > John McCain's Libra rising degree > > > Dear friends, > I have been looking at John McCain's early life experiences in an effort to > rectify his chart. The times quoted for him, the source for both being his > mother is 9.00 am (according to a McCain staffer) and 11.00 am, which she > herself says is the time, " I think " . In any event, she woke up and told her > husband the baby was coming. The could have awoken early, but the transport > to the hospital and preparation for the birth would have taken some more > time. So, the time could be anywhere from 9.00 am to 11.00 (or even later). > In any event, I am thinking that as he has Libra rising and has endured > major trauma in his life there should be active afflictions in his chart and > in transit at the time the traum was experienced. I find this by moving the > natal FM Rahu and Ketu into the MEP range. With a birth time of 9:55 he > obtains 8° 42' Libra rising. This is a tentative finding. See the attached > graphs with information in the text box. > July 29, 1967: is in his plane on the deck of the Forrestal airplane carrier > when a fire breaks out. He narrowly escapes death, injured, while also > trying to save another pilot. > October 26, 1967: Is shot down, after diving to release his bomb on target > even after hearing that his plane has been locked on. He is severely injured > in the crash and also afterwards. Almost dies. > August 1968: subject to systematic physical torture to sign a confession. > Almost dies. > March 14, 1973: released as POW. Becomes highly decorated upon his return. > I find that Rahu-Ketu period was running in 1967, with nodes afflicting > massively natally and also transit planets. He is in Rahu-Venus period when > shot down and tortured, with other aspects at work. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McCain > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_life_and_military_career_of_John_Mc Cain#Prisoner_of_war > I´d be interested in other views on this issue of his rising degree. > Best wishes, > Thor > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2008 Report Share Posted September 1, 2008 Dear Thor, On quick inspection, Libra 21 degrees holds some promise. There is no greatness or good luck at 8 degrees. Best regards, Vyas Munidas - " cosmologer " <cosmologer <SAMVA > Sunday, August 31, 2008 6:12 PM Re: John McCain's Libra rising degree Dear Vyas, Your point is very good. However, let me explain my dilemma in making the selction. As RAHU and KETU are at 8°29' Sagittarius/H3 and Gemini/H9 and MERCURY is at 9° 20' Virgo/H12. The only affliction is an over 4° orb aspect from Rahu to a very strong 11th lord Sun in the 11th house. This is not enough to explain the phenomenal and multi year trauma that he suffered. To my mind, the only possible explanation would have to be that these FMs are somewhere with the MEPs. To the full extent, this would place the rising degree somewhere between 3° 30' to 13° 29'. However, when we also consider that his major trauma occurred in his 31st year, we could reduce the orb to 3°, giving a possible range of 5° 30' to 11° 30' for the rising degree. I worked with these degrees, and the closest fit I got with the periods was 8° 42'. That said, I am not sure of that finding, because as you point out, this would implies that some severe difficulty could have been experienced from birth. Logically, either 5° 30' (time 9:42 am) or 11° 30' (time 10:06 am) Libra could then be examined as the actual degree. You or someone else want to take another look? Best wishes, Thor SAMVA , " Vyas Munidas " <muni> wrote: > > Dear Thor, > > It appears to me that a short, rather than medium/long, lifespan would be > most likely with this degree. > > > Best regards, > > Vyas Munidas > > - > " Cosmologer " <cosmologer > <samva > > Sunday, August 31, 2008 5:02 PM > John McCain's Libra rising degree > > > Dear friends, > I have been looking at John McCain's early life experiences in an effort to > rectify his chart. The times quoted for him, the source for both being his > mother is 9.00 am (according to a McCain staffer) and 11.00 am, which she > herself says is the time, " I think " . In any event, she woke up and told her > husband the baby was coming. The could have awoken early, but the transport > to the hospital and preparation for the birth would have taken some more > time. So, the time could be anywhere from 9.00 am to 11.00 (or even later). > In any event, I am thinking that as he has Libra rising and has endured > major trauma in his life there should be active afflictions in his chart and > in transit at the time the traum was experienced. I find this by moving the > natal FM Rahu and Ketu into the MEP range. With a birth time of 9:55 he > obtains 8° 42' Libra rising. This is a tentative finding. See the attached > graphs with information in the text box. > July 29, 1967: is in his plane on the deck of the Forrestal airplane carrier > when a fire breaks out. He narrowly escapes death, injured, while also > trying to save another pilot. > October 26, 1967: Is shot down, after diving to release his bomb on target > even after hearing that his plane has been locked on. He is severely injured > in the crash and also afterwards. Almost dies. > August 1968: subject to systematic physical torture to sign a confession. > Almost dies. > March 14, 1973: released as POW. Becomes highly decorated upon his return. > I find that Rahu-Ketu period was running in 1967, with nodes afflicting > massively natally and also transit planets. He is in Rahu-Venus period when > shot down and tortured, with other aspects at work. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McCain > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_life_and_military_career_of_John_Mc Cain#Prisoner_of_war > I´d be interested in other views on this issue of his rising degree. > Best wishes, > Thor > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2008 Report Share Posted September 1, 2008 Dear friends, Here is more on McCain's first marriage and the reason for the breakup: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_McCain According to this information, McCain later admitted that it was his immaturity that led him to push for a divorce. Best wishes, Thor SAMVA , " cosmologer " <cosmologer wrote: > > Dear Ron and Vyas, > > Thanks for weighing in on the issue. > > My concern is just to explain the trauma in his life and given their > severity. I had thought there needed to be some natal affliction, but > agree it is not straight forward. With the 27° Libra ascendant, it is > only the transits that explain the event. He is also in Venus sub- > period for both traumatic events in 1967. Granted, in the July 29 > incident, he was very lucky, both to survive and show bravery. But in > the shooting down of his jet he was not. He had a major trauma and > almost died from his wounds and maltreatment. It was only when the > captors learned his father was an Admiral that they decided to let > doctors save his life. We could also look at the experience as his > opportunity to invest in his position in life, as a war hero. It > could then be interpreted more favourably. You may very well > be right about a later degree. In this regard I could note that > Mercury was close to 21° when the bad accidents happened in 1967. > > However, we may also note that John McCain is divorced and remarried. > His former wife had a bad car accident that left her crippled. She > was 4 inches shorter, had gained weight and was on crutches when he > returned from the war. I don´t know anything more about the details > of the divorce, but assume it was also a difficult experience. This > would not, I think, be seen with Saturn on his 5th MEP aspecting his > 7th house. Perhaps the good karma for being remarried to a wealthy > woman is in the aspect of Saturn to Venus? > > Perhaps can weigh in on this issue. > > Best wishes, > > Thor > > SAMVA , RonDay <ronkar@> wrote: > > > > Dear Thor, > > > > This is a message I sent to the list some time back. Note that > Ra/Ke on > > MEPs will afflict Father and younger brother. > > > > Ron > > > > >As a follow up on my previous rectification attempt on J. McCain, > I > > have now decided on an ascendant of approx. 27 Libra. I previously > had > > the Ra/Ke axis on the MEP's of the 3H/9H. > > After reviewing some biographical data, I believe there is no > evidence > > to suggest that there should be a Ketu affliction on the 9H > (father) and > > having the RKA near the MEPs is a little harsh. > > The ascendant degree is now near the degree of Saturn, a benefic > for > > this ascendant. > > Sa now has benefic aspects to 2H, 7H, 11H. > > This better fits the time given by his mother and has Venus as well > as > > Saturn impacting the MEPs of the 5H/11H. It fits better all round.< > > > > > > > > Cosmologer wrote: > > > Dear friends, > > > I have been looking at John McCain's early life experiences in an > effort to rectify his chart. The times quoted for him, the source for > both being his mother is 9.00 am (according to a McCain staffer) and > 11.00 am, which she herself says is the time, " I think " . In any > event, she woke up and told her husband the baby was coming. The > could have awoken early, but the transport to the hospital and > preparation for the birth would have taken some more time. So, the > time could be anywhere from 9.00 am to 11.00 (or even later). > > > In any event, I am thinking that as he has Libra rising and has > endured major trauma in his life there should be active afflictions > in his chart and in transit at the time the traum was experienced. I > find this by moving the natal FM Rahu and Ketu into the MEP range. > With a birth time of 9:55 he obtains 8° 42' Libra rising. This is a > tentative finding. See the attached graphs with information in the > text box. > > > July 29, 1967: is in his plane on the deck of the Forrestal > airplane carrier when a fire breaks out. He narrowly escapes death, > injured, while also trying to save another pilot. > > > October 26, 1967: Is shot down, after diving to release his bomb > on target even after hearing that his plane has been locked on. He is > severely injured in the crash and also afterwards. Almost dies. > > > August 1968: subject to systematic physical torture to sign a > confession. Almost dies. > > > March 14, 1973: released as POW. Becomes highly decorated upon > his return. > > > I find that Rahu-Ketu period was running in 1967, with nodes > afflicting massively natally and also transit planets. He is in Rahu- > Venus period when shot down and tortured, with other aspects at work. > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McCain > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_life_and_military_career_of_John_Mc > Cain#Prisoner_of_war > > > I´d be interested in other views on this issue of his rising > degree. > > > Best wishes, > > > Thor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- -- > ------ > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- -- > ------ > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- -- > ------ > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- -- > ------ > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2008 Report Share Posted September 2, 2008 Dear David, We began with the Virgo rising sign. I never did examine it very closely. As you know, it is often much easier to explain adverse significant events with a Virgo chart due to the many FMs. Certainly, a late Virgo chart manages to offer a good explanation for his experiences in 1967 with Rahu/Ketu period and transit nodes stationary afflicting the natal nodes. In the Rahu/Venus period he was tortured in prison and his wife was crippled in the automobile accident. The real question has to be if the chart has the NATAL POTENTIAL to explain the broad picture of a life. It is the judgement of Professor Choudhry and others, with which I agree, that the Libra rising sign does a better job of explaining McCain's rise in life. The question there is mainly about which rising degree applies. I have been leaning to an earlier degree than the others, which would explain the horrific experiences in the war and the catastrophe that befell his wife and his " immature " reaction at the time. The Virgo chart cannot expalin, to my mind, the second marriage. Although Jupiter on 3rd house MEP would benefit him in a number of way, including politial power. Sun would then be strong in own house 12th, while Moon would be strong in Capricorn and 5th house. As for his wives, they were reportedly models before he married them, but the first one was crippled in an automobile accident while he was a prisoner of war. For this to happen with the Libra rising sign, the degree could be either around 5°30' or 11° 30'. I would still like to obtain the view of on this question of degree before considering other alternatives. Best wishes, Thor SAMVA , " David Hawthorne " <david wrote: > > Dear Thor…. > > Did you ever try the Virgo rising sign? > > David Hawthorne > SAMVA [sAMVA ] On Behalf Of > Cosmologer > Sunday, August 31, 2008 4:03 PM > samva > John McCain's Libra rising degree > > Dear friends, > > I have been looking at John McCain's early life experiences in an effort to > rectify his chart. The times quoted for him, the source for both being his > mother is 9.00 am (according to a McCain staffer) and 11.00 am, which she > herself says is the time, " I think " . In any event, she woke up and told her > husband the baby was coming. The could have awoken early, but the transport > to the hospital and preparation for the birth would have taken some more > time. So, the time could be anywhere from 9.00 am to 11.00 (or even later). > > In any event, I am thinking that as he has Libra rising and has endured > major trauma in his life there should be active afflictions in his chart and > in transit at the time the traum was experienced. I find this by moving the > natal FM Rahu and Ketu into the MEP range. With a birth time of 9:55 he > obtains 8° 42' Libra rising. This is a tentative finding. See the attached > graphs with information in the text box. > > July 29, 1967: is in his plane on the deck of the Forrestal airplane carrier > when a fire breaks out. He narrowly escapes death, injured, while also > trying to save another pilot. > October 26, 1967: Is shot down, after diving to release his bomb on target > even after hearing that his plane has been locked on. He is severely injured > in the crash and also afterwards. Almost dies. > August 1968: subject to systematic physical torture to sign a confession. > Almost dies. > March 14, 1973: released as POW. Becomes highly decorated upon his return. > > I find that Rahu-Ketu period was running in 1967, with nodes afflicting > massively natally and also transit planets. He is in Rahu-Venus period when > shot down and tortured, with other aspects at work. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McCain > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_life_and_military_career_of_John_Mc Cain#P > risoner_of_war > > I´d be interested in other views on this issue of his rising degree. > > Best wishes, > > Thor > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.14/1645 - Release Date: 9/1/2008 > 7:19 AM > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2008 Report Share Posted September 2, 2008 Dear , Thank you for sharing with us your assessment. The events in coming months should remove any remaining doubt. If he wins the election, it will certainly confirm the Libra ascendant. Best wishes, Thor SIHA <vkchoudhrySAMVA Sent: Tuesday, September 2, 2008 7:57:37 AMRe: Re: John McCain's Libra rising degree Hello dear Thor, I think the probable degree in Libra ascendant is around 24. If the asdt is 5.30 degree or 11.30 degree the Moon will become weak and that does not appear to be the case. Best wishes. - cosmologer SAMVA Tuesday, September 02, 2008 12:44 PM Re: John McCain's Libra rising degree Dear David,We began with the Virgo rising sign. I never did examine it very closely. As you know, it is often much easier to explain adverse significant events with a Virgo chart due to the many FMs. Certainly, a late Virgo chart manages to offer a good explanation for his experiences in 1967 with Rahu/Ketu period and transit nodes stationary afflicting the natal nodes. In the Rahu/Venus period he was tortured in prison and his wife was crippled in the automobile accident.The real question has to be if the chart has the NATAL POTENTIAL to explain the broad picture of a life. It is the judgement of and others, with which I agree, that the Libra rising sign does a better job of explaining McCain's rise in life. The question there is mainly about which rising degree applies. I have been leaning to an earlier degree than the others, which would explain the horrific experiences in the war and the catastrophe that befell his wife and his "immature" reaction at the time. The Virgo chart cannot expalin, to my mind, the second marriage. Although Jupiter on 3rd house MEP would benefit him in a number of way, including politial power. Sun would then be strong in own house 12th, while Moon would be strong in Capricorn and 5th house. As for his wives, they were reportedly models before he married them, but the first one was crippled in an automobile accident while he was a prisoner of war. For this to happen with the Libra rising sign, the degree could be either around 5°30' or 11° 30'. I would still like to obtain the view of on this question of degree before considering other alternatives.Best wishes,ThorSAMVA , "David Hawthorne" <david wrote:>> Dear Thor….> > Did you ever try the Virgo rising sign?> > David Hawthorne> SAMVA [sAMVA ] On Behalf Of> Cosmologer> Sunday, August 31, 2008 4:03 PM> samva > John McCain's Libra rising degree> > Dear friends,> > I have been looking at John McCain's early life experiences in an effort to> rectify his chart. The times quoted for him, the source for both being his> mother is 9.00 am (according to a McCain staffer) and 11.00 am, which she> herself says is the time, "I think". In any event, she woke up and told her> husband the baby was coming. The could have awoken early, but the transport> to the hospital and preparation for the birth would have taken some more> time. So, the time could be anywhere from 9.00 am to 11.00 (or even later). > > In any event, I am thinking that as he has Libra rising and has endured> major trauma in his life there should be active afflictions in his chart and> in transit at the time the traum was experienced. I find this by moving the> natal FM Rahu and Ketu into the MEP range. With a birth time of 9:55 he> obtains 8° 42' Libra rising. This is a tentative finding. See the attached> graphs with information in the text box.> > July 29, 1967: is in his plane on the deck of the Forrestal airplane carrier> when a fire breaks out. He narrowly escapes death, injured, while also> trying to save another pilot.> October 26, 1967: Is shot down, after diving to release his bomb on target> even after hearing that his plane has been locked on. He is severely injured> in the crash and also afterwards. Almost dies.> August 1968: subject to systematic physical torture to sign a confession.> Almost dies.> March 14, 1973: released as POW. Becomes highly decorated upon his return.> > I find that Rahu-Ketu period was running in 1967, with nodes afflicting> massively natally and also transit planets. He is in Rahu-Venus period when> shot down and tortured, with other aspects at work.> http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ John_McCain> http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Early_life_ and_military_ career_of_ John_McCain#P> risoner_of_war> > I´d be interested in other views on this issue of his rising degree.> > Best wishes,> > Thor> > > > > > > > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg. com> Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.14/1645 - Release 9/1/2008> 7:19 AM> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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