A very promising chart for France/time zone

September 28, 2008

Hello Jorge,What time zone is used in the First Republic one? SallyOn Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 2:09 AM, Jorge Angelino <jorge.angelino wrote:

My dear Thor,

You are welcome.

Yes, you are right...only time will tell us which to addopt

Best wishes

On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 12:54 PM, Cosmologer <cosmologer wrote:

My dear Jorge,

Thank you for catching the error.

Indeed, RAHU aspects 5th house, 9th house, 11th house and 1st house - and not the 7th house. While a direct influence of RAHU on foreign policy is no longer seen through an aspect on the 7th house, there is a strong RAHU influence in the chart, including on both the 9th house of foreign matters and 1st house of self. Moreover, as RAHU exactly aspects the 9th house, its influence comes indirectly through the aspect of 9th lord, SATURN's on the 7th house. This links RAHUs influence to the 7th house. Overall, it would appear a reading of RAHU type diplomacy would be sustained by this chart, although it its effectiveness would appear less, given the weakness of SATURN and its affliction by KETU. This also seems to be consistent with the facts.

As for the question of which Republic event to use, it is a question which event for creating a republic would be more important: a republic that has been numbered as first or the one that is operating at the present time, the fifth. As France, as a nation, is much older than the Republics, as it has existed before they were created, the claim that the birth of a mundane chart for the country is tied to the first such formation appears to be less convincing than the choice of the most recent form of republic.

That said, the predictions can settle the matter.

Best wishes,

Thor

Jorge Angelino <jorge.angelinoSAMVA

Saturday, September 27, 2008 11:40:19 AMRe: Re: A very promising chart for France

My dear Thor,

This Referendum chart seems to be also a very good tool for predictions.

An interesting point is that in all these charts, Venus comes always debilitated...

Your interpretation regarding a strong diplomacy is very interesting...but in the Referendum chart, Rahu is conjunct MEP5, aspectind the 1st, 11th and 9th, not the 7th.

The EXACT aspect over the 7th house only exists in the chart of First Republic.

Best wishes

On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 11:25 AM, Cosmologer <cosmologer wrote:

Dear friends,

Thank you for interesting questions Jolastro and answers .

Regarding a pattern of consumption to relive anxiety, we know that VENUS rules comforts while MERCURY rules the nervous system. Both planets are placed in the 4th house. In a mundane chart the 4th house has to do with collective harmony - how all of us feel about ourselves together as part of a nation.

MERCURY

A combust, well placed but exalted 4th lord MERCURY explains a moderate tendency for nervous tension. MERCURY is a very dynamic planet for Geminis.

VENUS

The placement of MERCURY has an impact on the placement of 5th lord VENUS in the most effective point of the 4TH HOUSE especially as VENUS is also in young age, debiliated and combust. VENUS thus has a pronounced influence, as a weak planet, on the 4th house of collective harmony and education and the 10th house of the executive and foreign trade. Interestingly, the national symbol of France is Marianne, an imgainary heroine of the French revolution. RAHU afflicts the 5th house, thus influencing strongly this house and VENUS. There would be periodic crises in the university education system and involving the young people of France, given JUPITERs placement in the 5th house.

SUN

3rd lord SUN in the chart is also placed in the 4th house. The influence of SUN on MERCURY and VENUS is a mixed blessing in this chart. It suggests initiatives are aimed at increasing or meeting the needs of the population for collective harmony. However, the presence of the SUN makes the other planets combust, which weakens all of them.

So, the chart suggests there is some fundamental tendency for anxiety which people could try to relieve with consuming. We should also keep in mind that consuming to compensate for a happiness deficit is a tendency that is common among most people, but more pronounced in societies emphasising a materialist outlook. Perhaps France has this tendency more pronounced.

GOOD FOOD

The French emphsis on good food, could be explained by this tendency, but more importantly it would be explained by the strong and well placed 2nd lord Moon, with also the 2nd house being free of affliction.

WINE AND TOBACCO

The aspect of RAHU, which rules intoxicants, on the 11th house, 3rd house, 5th house and 7th house, would likely explain the heavy emphasis the French have traditionally placed on wine as part of the daily food intake and the presence of tobacco in modern culture. More recently, the French have begun to reduce their emphasis on tobacco and wine, but the efforts to do so are meeting great resistance. For a typical French smoker, it is his right to smoke that is at stake, and not the impact of his smoke on others. The influence of RAHU on the arts (exact aspect on 5th house owned by VENUS) is also captured in the outlook and image of the much loved singer Serge Gainsburg, who had an ever present Gauloise cigarette on his lips and sported an unkempt look of a permanent hangover.

GOOD NEIGHBORS

The Moon explains why France generally has good and tension free relations with neighboring countries.

WORLD CLASS DIPLOMATS

The aspect of RAHU, the indicator of diplomacy, on the 7th house of foreign policy would also explain why the French are considered world class diplomats. This quality may also be the source of frustration other nations have with France when it comes to the unwillingness of the French leaders to take sides in difficult conflictual situations involving other countries, like the war of the US and UK in Iraq. France, which has had long standing commercial ties with Iraq, was opposed to the invasion.

HIGH FASHION

The good placement and weakness of VENUS along with the affliction of the 5th house by RAHU as well as the placement of 7th lord JUPITER in the 5th house could also explain the haut couture, or high fashion of France. French women have reputation for a sense of style that is admired around the world. The French fashion industry is sophisticated, creative and materialistic, which would be linked to the influence of RAHU and 5th house. It has international appeal due to the placement of JUPITER in the 5th house. Many French fashion executives and their houses have become famous around the world.

SOCIALISED HEALTH INSURANCE

The 2nd lord MOON in the 10th house explains the health insurance system. Indeed, the MOON is the planet of maternal protection and also queen of the cabinet. The placement of MOON in the 10th house of the executive government suggests the French enjoy good socialised health protection.

Monsieur le PRESIDENT

The good placement of the SUN, the lord of the leader of the country, in the 4th house, suggests the President has a role to give calm assurances to his countrymen, but the efforts or the powerful postion are sometimes not having the desired effect. It is interesting that the current President has recently taken a wife that has something of a wild reputation when it comes to past lovers and is an accomplished artist.

Indeed, a picture is emerging of this chart, showing numerous indications in this chart that resonate very well with modern France.

Best wishes,

Thor

SIHA <vkchoudhrySAMVA

Saturday, September 27, 2008 8:34:06 AMRe: Re: A very promising chart for France

Hello Jolastro, The strength of the Moon and weakness of Venus and Mercury do support this.

Best wishes.

-

zemastro

SAMVA

Saturday, September 27, 2008 1:28 PM

Re: A very promising chart for France

Hello SA friends,Is the 1° Gemini rising chart consistent with the very good health insurance french system, qualified as " the best in the world " ? Also with the fact that french people are quite anxious: they are

knonw as the biggest anxiolytic consumers.Best wishes,Jolastro SAMVA , Cosmologer <cosmologer@ ...> wrote:>> Dear Vyas,> > Further to what you have written, the indications of 9th house in

the mundane astrology as per SA are:> > Ninth House: Judicial system, morality, religion, diplomats, foreign missions, progress and development.> > " Aspect of 9th lord SATURN to the 7th house, 1st house, 4th house

> and 8th house would give support to tourism, self, easy gains and social> harmony through role of France as leader of religion, philosophy and higher> learning in earlier centuries. " >

> Indeed, this placement seems to make good sense. When in France, one sees the influence of Saturn as 9th lord on 1st and 7th houses through world famous churches (e.g. Notre Dame, Saint-Sulpice, St. German des Pres, Chartres), famous universities (e.g. Sorbonnes)

landmarks dedicated to famous philosophers (Descartes, Voltaire, etc.) or sculptors (e.g. Rodin, Pigalle), Palaces dedicated to the splendour of courts and diplomacy (Versailles) , museums (Louvre, Orsay, etc.),

etc. etc.> > Best wishes,> > Thor> > > > > > Vyas Munidas <muni >

> SAMVA > Friday, September 26, 2008 3:53:32 PM> Re: Re: A very promising chart for France

> > Dear Thor,> > The Professor has written:> > " The ninth house pertains to dharma, father, preceptor and the results of> past deeds. The results of past deeds makes our fortune in this

life. So> some indications can be got from the ninth house. " > > So this point has some merit.> > Verification of the past and lots of specific/detailed information on the > other hand, wouldn't be easy to extract. I've often been asked by

friends > about their past lives and my reply has always been, " I can speculate at > best, but I can tell the occurences likely to be expressed because of it. " > > > Best regards,

> > Vyas Munidas> > - > " cosmologer " <cosmologer@ ...>

> <SAMVA >> Friday, September 26, 2008 4:17 AM

> Re: A very promising chart for France> >

> My dear Vyas,> > The 9th lord is related to the indications mentioned. Saturn is> linked to old things. The weak but notable historical influences is> there.> > Best wishes,

> > Thor> > SAMVA , " Vyas Munidas " <munidas@> wrote:> >> > Dear Thor,

> >> > I wasn't aware that the natal chart can indicate the previous> centuries as> > you've stated below:> >> > " Aspect of 9th lord SATURN to the 7th house, 1st house, 4th house

> and 8th> > house would give support to tourism, self, easy gains and social> harmony> > through role of France as leader of religion, philosophy and higher> learning> > in earlier centuries. "

> >> > This is interesting. Please, if you may, draw a couple other> examples> > through the few verified charts we have.> >> > A couple points that stand out in my mind:-

> > - The effect of Saturn on the indicated MEP's is not great, since> it's in> > old age and badly placed.> > - Regarding religion, it would be weak in the present day,> considering the

> > weakness of the spiritual significators.> >> >> > Best regards,> >> > Vyas Munidas> >> > - > > " Cosmologer " <cosmologer@ >

> > <SAMVA >> > Friday, September 26, 2008 3:35 AM> > Re: A very promising chart for France

> >> >> > My dear and list members,> >> > Thank you for sharing your assessment.> >> > Indeed, with a strong MOON as 2nd lord in the 10th house, France

> would have> > high status and be a wealthy country.> >> > The 3rd lord SUN is well placed in the 4th house but as it combusts> the 4th> > lord MERCURY without conjuncting it, it weakens both planets. The

> Sun's> > exaltation in Navamsa chart helps, but the initiatives would be> expected to> > succeed with delays. Affliction of 3rd house by KETU suggests> disturbance to> > its indications (as also noted in prior post).

> >> > The infancy, debilitation and combustion of 5th lord VENUS,> affliction of> > 5th house MEP by RAHU is not helpful to its indications including> children,> > universities, comforts, etc.

> >> > The good placement of 7th lord JUPITER in sign of Libra and 5th> house,> > however, make tourism important, though the heritage of France as a> country> > of fraternity, liberty and eaquality. However, there is some

> weakness> > associated with its placement there, due to weakness of its> dispositor> > Venus.> >> > Aspect of 9th lord SATURN to the 7th house, 1st house, 4th house

> and 8th

> > house would give support to tourism, self, easy gains and social> harmony> > through role of France as leader of religion, philosophy and higher> learning> > in earlier centuries.

> >> > The placement of 11th lord MARS in 12th house suggests some income> from> > abroad.> >> > Best wishes,> >> > Thor> >> >

> >> > > > SIHA <vkchoudhry@ >

> > SAMVA > > Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:38:10 PM> > Re: A very promising chart for France

> >> >> > Hello my dear Jo and Thor,> >> > Referendum is an important seal by the public in accepting the> proposal of> > De Gaulle to change the constitution to its

> > materialisation. This chart merits consideration for verifying the> past> > events and validating it with the help of predictions. The> contribution to> > the status of the head of the state in this case is represented by

> the> > strong Moon sitting in the tenth house.> >

> > Best wishes.> >> > > >> >> > -

> > Jo Cohen> > SAMVA

> > Friday, September 26, 2008 2:13 AM> > Re: A very promising chart for France> >> > Dear Thor> >> > Thank you for bringing these points to our attention.

> > A long rectification work is needed.> > Maybe we can wait until our dear validates this> Gemini> > chart to start the work.> >> > Best Wishes

> >> > Jo> >> > - > > " Cosmologer " <cosmologer>

> > <SAMVA >> > Thursday, September 25, 2008 9:28 PM> > A very promising chart for France> >> > Dear Jo, , Jolastro and friends,

> >> > A notable affliction in the 1° Gemini rising chart for this event> is the> > affliction of KETU the lord of sudden setbacks in the 10th house to> 9th lord> > SATURN indicator of working people badly placed in the 6th house

of> > conflict. This would be consistent with the characteristic of> French labour> > movement to suddenly call a strike and create disturbance for> ordinary> > people. KETU also afflicts the 3rd house which rules

communication.> Indeed,> > most of these strikes occur in the transportation sector.> >> > A good way to test the validity of this chart is to examine the> transit and> > period influences in notable strikes or periods of social unrest

> >> > The long transport strike in December 1995> > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ 1995_strikes_ in_France> > transit KETU at 1° Aries and 11th house was aspecting exactly the

> 3rd house> > MEP and natal KETU.> >> > Related:> > The 1995 bombings in France were carried out by the Armed Islamic> Group> > (GIA), who were broadening the Algerian Civil War to France. In

> total, these> > attacks killed eight and injured more than 100. The first stage of> the> > extension of the Islamists' terrorist campaign to France began with> the> > assassination of Abdelbaki Sahraoui, a co-founder of the Islamic

> Salvation> > Front (FIS) who opposed the extension to France of the Algerian> Civil War> > On July 25, 1995, a gas bottle exploded in the Saint-Michel - Notre-> Dame> > station of line B of the RER (Paris regional train network). Eight

> were> > killed and 80 wounded.> > On August 17, a bomb at the Arc de Triomphe wounded 17 people. On> August 26,> > a huge bomb was found on the railroad tracks of a high-speed rail

> line near> > Lyon. On September 3, a bomb malfunctioned in a square in Paris,> wounding 4.> > On September 7, a car bomb at a Jewish school in Lyon wounded 14.> > A leader of the group, Khaled Kelkal, was identified through

> fingerprints> > left on unexploded bombs. He was killed on September 29 by members> of the> > French EPIGN gendarmerie unit when resisting arrest in hills near> Lyon.> > Yet the attacks continued. On October 6, a gas bottle exploded in

> station> > Maison Blanche of the Paris Métro, wounding 13. On October 17, a> gas bottle> > exploded between the Musée d'Orsay and Saint-Michel - Notre-Dame> stations of> > RER Line C, wounding 29.

> > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ 1995_Paris_ Metro_bombing> >> > May 1968 riots> > On Friday, 10 May, another huge crowd congregated on the Rive

> Gauche. When> > the riot police again blocked them from crossing the river, the> crowd again> > threw up barricades, which the police then attacked at 2:15 in the> morning> > after negotiations once again floundered. The confrontation, which

> produced> > hundreds of arrests and injuries, lasted until dawn of the> following day.> > The events were broadcast on radio as they occurred and the> aftermath was> > shown on television the following day. Allegations were made that

> the police> > had participated, through agents provocateurs, in the riots, by> burning cars> > and throwing molotov cocktails> > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ May_1968

> > -Transit SATURN and transit KETU conjunct in 10th house, conjunct> natal KETU> > and aspecting natal SATURN> >> > This chart looks like it has some real potential.> >

> > I think it is in oder to congratulate dear Jo and Professor> Choudhry for> > discovering an event giving a chart that has excellent potential to> explain> > a certain natal predisposition and a set of related events for

> France. Good> > timing for Jolastro to ask this question, which set of this chain> of events.> > You must be a lucky man - or is it SAMVA list!> >> > This chart definitiely warrants a closer study!

> >> > Best wishes,> >> > Thor> >> > France 5th Republic ref> > Sep 28, 1958 10:00 PM -01:00 BST> > Paris Longitude: 2E20 Latitude: 48N50> > Lahiri Ayanamsha: 23:16 Current Period: MO/KE/SU

> >> > Planet Deg Sign Speed SA Nakshatra Lord> > ============ ========= ========= ========= =========> > Asc 01:13 Gem Mrigsira Ma> > Sun 11:56 Vir +00:58:54 WK Hasta Mo

> > Moon 22:28 Pis +11:49:17 ST Revati Me

> > Mars 08:18 Tau +00:09:39 WK Krittika Su> > Merc 06:35 Vir +01:49:24 CM U.Phalguni Su> > Jupt 10:52 Lib +00:12:13 WK Swati Ra> > Ven 00:42 Vir +01:14:40 WK U.Phalguni Su> > Sat 26:50 Sco +00:03:21 WK Jyeshtha Me

> > Rahu 28:58 Vir -00:00:27 FM Chitra Ma> > Ketu 28:58 Pis -00:00:27 FM Revati Me> >> > True Node 365.25 Day Year - Internet Time: 917 beats> > Day: Sunday Sunrise: 6:46 AM

> > Tithi: Krishna Pratipada> > Yoga Pt: 7:44 Sg Yogi:Ke AviYogi:Ra Dup Yogi: Ju> > Dagha Rashis: Lib Cap> >> > Sytems Approach Analysis> > ============ ========= ===

> > Sun Good Placement, Weak Dispositor,> > Moon Good Placement, Bright,> > Mars Bad Placement,> > Mercury Good Placement, Combust 64%,> > Jupiter Good Placement, Debilitated in Navamsha, Weak Dispositor,

> > Venus Good Placement, Debilitated, In Infancy: 86%, Weak Dispositor,> > Saturn Bad Placement, In Old Age: 36%,> > Rahu Good Placement, Weak Dispositor,> > Ketu Good Placement,

> >> > Rashi Chart> > ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* *******> > ** 4 * * 2 **> > *5 * * * * *> > * * * * * *> > * * * * * *> > * * * MA 08:18* *

> > * * * * * *> > * * 3 AS 01:13 * 1 *> > * * * * * *> > * * * * * *> > * * * * * *> > * * * * * *> > * * VE 00:42 * * * *> > ** ME 06:35 * * MO 22:28 **

> > *6 SU 11:56 * 12 KE 28:58 *> > ** RA 28:58 * * **> > *7 * * * * *> > * * * * * *> > * * * * * *> > * * * * * *> > * * * * * *> > *JU 10:52 * 9 * 11 *

> > * * * * * *> > * * * * * *> > * * SA 26:50 * * * *> > * * * * * *> > * * * * * *> > ** 8 * * 10 **> > ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* *******

> >> > Navamsha> > ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* *******> > ** 8 * * 6 **> > *9 * * * * *> > * * * * * *> > * * * * * *> > * * * RA * *

> > * * * * * *> > * * 7 AS * 5 *> > * * * * * *> > * * * * * *> > * * * * * *> > * * * * * *> > * * * * * *> > ** MO * * **> > *10 JU * 4 *

> > ** VE * * **> > *11* * * * *> > * * * * * *> > * * * * * *> > * * * * * *> > * * * * * *> > *ME * 1 SU * 3 *> > * * * * * *> > * MA * * * *

> > * * SA * * * *> > * * KE * * * *> > * * * * * *> > ** 12 * * 2 **> > ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* *******> >> > Vimshottari Dasha/Buktis

> > ============ ========= ===> > Me/Mo 31.5.1958> > Me/Ma 31.10.1959> > Me/Ra 27.10.1960> > Me/Ju 16.5.1963> > Me/Sa 21.8.1965> > Ke/Ke 30.4.1968> > Ke/Ve 26.9.1968

> > Ke/Su 27.11.1969> > Ke/Mo 3.4.1970> > Ke/Ma 2.11.1970> > Ke/Ra 1.4.1971> > Ke/Ju 18.4.1972> > Ke/Sa 25.3.1973> > Ke/Me 4.5.1974> > Ve/Ve 1.5.1975

> > Ve/Su 31.8.1978> > Ve/Mo 31.8.1979> > Ve/Ma 1.5.1981> > Ve/Ra 1.7.1982> > Ve/Ju 30.6.1985> > Ve/Sa 29.2.1988> > Ve/Me 1.5.1991> > Ve/Ke 1.3.1994

> > Su/Su 1.5.1995> > Su/Mo 19.8.1995> > Su/Ma 17.2.1996> > Su/Ra 24.6.1996> > Su/Ju 19.5.1997> > Su/Sa 7.3.1998> > Su/Me 17.2.1999> > Su/Ke 24.12.1999

> > Su/Ve 30.4.2000> > Mo/Mo 1.5.2001> > Mo/Ma 1.3.2002> > Mo/Ra 30.9.2002> > Mo/Ju 31.3.2004> > Mo/Sa 31.7.2005> > Mo/Me 1.3.2007> > Mo/Ke 31.7.2008

> > Mo/Ve 1.3.2009> > Mo/Su 30.10.2010> > Ma/Ma 1.5.2011> > Ma/Ra 27.9.2011> > Ma/Ju 15.10.2012> > Ma/Sa 21.9.2013> > Ma/Me 30.10.2014> > Ma/Ke 28.10.2015

> > Ma/Ve 25.3.2016> > Ma/Su 25.5.2017> > Ma/Mo 30.9.2017> > Ra/Ra 1.5.2018> > Ra/Ju 11.1.2021> > Ra/Sa 7.6.2023> > Ra/Me 12.4.2026> > Ra/Ke 30.10.2028

> > Ra/Ve 17.11.2029> > Ra/Su 17.11.2032> > Ra/Mo 12.10.2033> > Ra/Ma 13.4.2035> > Ju/Ju 30.4.2036> > Ju/Sa 18.6.2038> > Ju/Me 30.12.2040> > Ju/Ke 7.4.2043

> > Ju/Ve 13.3.2044> > Ju/Su 12.11.2046> > Ju/Mo 31.8.2047> > Ju/Ma 30.12.2048> > Ju/Ra 6.12.2049> > Sa/Sa 30.4.2052> > Sa/Me 4.5.2055> > Sa/Ke 11.1.2058

> > Sa/Ve 20.2.2059> > Sa/Su 22.4.2062> > Sa/Mo 4.4.2063> > Sa/Ma 2.11.2064> > Sa/Ra 12.12.2065> > Sa/Ju 18.10.2068> >> >

> > Jo Cohen <cohen.jo (AT) free (DOT) fr>

> > SAMVA > > Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:07:04 PM> > Re: France chart> >> > Hello dear > >

> > The closing time for votes in Paris the 28th september 1958 was> 22H00.> > For other cities, I have not found any mention of time.> > If we take 22H00 for the 28/9/1958, we have Gemini ascendant in

the> early> > degrees.> >> > Now, let's consider also that the results of this referendum were> known and> > published only the 4th october> > 1948. According to the comments made by many politicians, " the

> outcome of> > this> > referendum was not a surprise " . The referendum was not a real issue> > according to these same comments.> >> > From the intention of De Gaulle to change the constitution to its

> > materialisation, the turning point was the 4th september 1958 when> De Gaulle> > presented the concepts of his new constitution in a very formal way> in> > Paris, Place de la République, between 14H and 15H. The video

> document> > relating this presentation can be seen on INA website (see the> link).> >> > With 14H30, we have another possible chart with Scorpio ascendant> and a very> > strong Sun in the tenth

> > house.> >> > I'd be very happy to hear your ideas and comments.> >> > Best Wishes> >> > Jo Cohen> >> > link :> > http://www.ina. fr/archivespourt ous/index. php?vue=notice &

> from=themes & > > code=C0821788768 & num_notice= 1 & total_notices= 19> > You need to have QickTime on your computer to see this informative> video> >> > -

> > " SIHA " <vkchoudhry@ gmail. com>

> > <SAMVA >> > Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:54 PM> > Re: France chart> >> > >> > > Hello dear Mr. Jo Cohen,

> > >> > > I will consider as the last time for referendum for making the> chart. I> > > will wait for the results of your further research/info.> > >

> > > Best wishes.> > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > -

> > > " Jo Cohen " <cohen.jo (AT) free (DOT) fr>

> > > <SAMVA >> > > Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:04 PM> > > Re: France chart> > >> > >> > >> Hello dear

> > >>> > >> Good idea to take the 28th september 1958 for France.> > >> You suggest to start with 5PM, which gives 25°21 Capricorn> ascendant.> > >> This chart has some merits. One problem I see is the weakness

of> the Sun> > >> trough dispositor Mercury in state of combustion and affliction> of Rahu> > >> on> > >> mep : this doesn't fit with the fact that, since the Vth

Republic> > >> started,> > >> the head of state and the government were always very strong> while> > >> parliament was in position of weakness. Some opponents use to

> say that> > >> the> > >> Vth Reprublic has restored a kind of monarchy in France. This> statement> > >> fits with the spirit of Charles de Gaulle.> > >>

> > >> The closing time for votes in France is actually 18H00> everywhere and> > >> 20H00> > >> for Paris.> > >> I will check about the closing times for 1958.

> > >>> > >> Best Wishes> > >>> > >> Jo Cohen> > >>> > >> - > > >> " SIHA " <vkchoudhry@ gmail. com>

> > >> <SAMVA >> > >> Thursday, September 25, 2008 5:28 PM> > >> Re: France chart> > >>> > >>

> > >>> Hello dear Mr. Cohen,> > >>>> > >>> In view of these incidents, we can take 28th September, 1958,> as the day> > >>> and> > >>> then comes the question of the time. The closing time of the

> referendum> > >>> can> > >>> be taken as the birth time for the country chart. And then> various> > >>> important> > >>> incidents can be seen for ascertaining the feasibility. If we

> take this> > >>> closing time as 5.00 PM, many important events, at random, are> shown in> > >>> transit influences. A great deal of work is required to be done.> > >>>

> > >>> Best wishes.> > >>>> > >>> > > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> -

> > >>> " Jo Cohen " <cohen.jo (AT) free (DOT) fr>

> > >>> <SAMVA >> > >>> Thursday, September 25, 2008 7:46 PM> > >>> Re: France chart> > >>>

> > >>>> > >>>> Hello dear > > >>>>> > >>>> Here are the data I gathered on this topic.> > >>>>

> > >>>> General de Gaulle, who had retired from politics a decade

> before,> > >>>> placed> > >>>> himself in the midst of the crisis of may 1958, calling on the> nation> > >>>> to> > >>>> suspend the government and create a new constitutional

system.> > >>>>> > >>>> De Gaulle was carried to power by the inability of the> parliament to> > >>>> choose> > >>>> a government, popular protest, and the last parliament of the

> Fourth> > >>>> Republic voting for their dissolution and the convening of a> > >>>> constitutional> > >>>> convention.> > >>>>

> > >>>> The 19th may 1958 he announced for the first time publicly his> > >>>> intention> > >>>> to> > >>>> create a new constitution and to ask french people to vote

for> it (or> > >>>> against) through a referendum.> > >>>>> > >>>> He negociated this point with President Rene Coty before> coming back

> > >>>> the

> > >>>> 29th may 1958 as President du Conseil - a kind of Prime> Minister under> > >>>> the> > >>>> IVth Republic.> > >>>>> > >>>> The 3rd June 1958, french deputies gave him their OK to go

for> this new> > >>>> constitution.> > >>>>> > >>>> The text was written during summertime by a cicle of lawyers.> > >>>>

> > >>>> The constitution was presented in a formal way in Paris on

the> 4th> > >>>> september> > >>>> 1958, Place de la République, afternoon time.> > >>>>> > >>>> The referendum that took place on 28th september was

favorable.> > >>>> The constitution was promulgated the 4th of october.> > >>>> The publication on Journal Officiel was made on the 5th.> > >>>>> > >>>> Best Wishes

> > >>>>> > >>>> Jo Cohen> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> - > > >>>> " SIHA " <vkchoudhry@ gmail. com>

> > >>>> <SAMVA >> > >>>> Thursday, September 25, 2008 1:38 PM> > >>>> Re: France chart> > >>>>

> > >>>>> > >>>>> OK, dear Mr. Cohen.> > >>>>>

> > >>>>> Best wishes.> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > > >>>>>> > >>>>> -

> > >>>>> " Jo Cohen " <cohen.jo (AT) free (DOT) fr>

> > >>>>> <SAMVA >> > >>>>> Thursday, September 25, 2008 4:39 PM> > >>>>> Re: France chart> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Hello dear > > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> I will try to find time and date for the decision for the

> referendum.> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> Best Wishes> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> Jo Cohen> > >>>>>>

> > >>>>>> - > > >>>>>> " SIHA " <vkchoudhry@ gmail. com>

> > >>>>>> <SAMVA >> > >>>>>> Thursday, September 25, 2008 12:13 PM> > >>>>>> Re: France chart

> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Hello dear Mr. Cohen,> > >>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>> Any insight on the date and time of the decision for the> referendom> > >>>>>>> may> > >>>>>>> be> > >>>>>>> interesting to look into.

> > >>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>> Best wishes.> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> -

> > >>>>>>> " Jo Cohen " <cohen.jo (AT) free (DOT) fr>

> > >>>>>>> <SAMVA >> > >>>>>>> Thursday, September 25, 2008 3:35 PM> > >>>>>>> Re: France chart

> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Hello dear > > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> The new Constitution was adopted after a referendum held

> on 28th> > >>>>>>>> september> > >>>>>>>> 1958. French people were asked if they were favorable or> not for> > >>>>>>>> this

> > >>>>>>>> new> > >>>>>>>> Constitution of the Vth Republic, presented for the first> time to> > >>>>>>>> the

> > >>>>>>>> country the 4th september 1958. This initiative came

after> a long> > >>>>>>>> period> > >>>>>>>> of> > >>>>>>>> 'political paralysis', the IVth Republic being unable to

> bring> > >>>>>>>> political> > >>>>>>>> stability and strong authority to the government. The> General de> > >>>>>>>> Gaulle

> > >>>>>>>> was> > >>>>>>>> at the center of this initiative. French people answered> YES> > >>>>>>>> massively

> > >>>>>>>> (80%)> > >>>>>>>> to this referendum. The new Constitution was published in> the> > >>>>>>>> Journal

> > >>>>>>>> Officiel on 5th october 1958. General de Gaulle became the> first> > >>>>>>>> president> > >>>>>>>> of the Vth Republic on 8th January 1959.

> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Best Wishes> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Jo Cohen> > >>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>> - > > >>>>>>>> " SIHA " <vkchoudhry@ gmail. com>> > >>>>>>>> <SAMVA >

> > >>>>>>>> Cc: " John TWB " <jtwbjakarta@ .co. uk>> > >>>>>>>> Thursday, September 25, 2008 11:33 AM

> > >>>>>>>> Re: France chart> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Hello dear Mr. John,

> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> One of the proposed charts by dear Mr. Jorge Angelino is> > >>>>>>>> for the Fifth Republic which came into existence with the

> > >>>>>>>> publication> > >>>>>>>> of> > >>>>>>>> the> > >>>>>>>> new Constitution in the Journal Official on 5 October

> 1958, in> > >>>>>>>> Paris.> > >>>>>>>> It> > >>>>>>>> is> > >>>>>>>> understood that the legislation creating the Republic

came> into> > >>>>>>>> effect> > >>>>>>>> at> > >>>>>>>> 00.00 hrs.> > >>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>> Is there any historical event which gives the date and> time for the> > >>>>>>>> agreement which was arrived at for preparation and> publication of

> > >>>>>>>> the> > >>>>>>>> Constitution? That is very important.> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> The chart proposed by Mr. Jorge Angelino is appears to be

> the> > >>>>>>>> better> > >>>>>>>> representative between these two charts.> > >>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>> Best wishes.> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> -

> > >>>>>>>> Jo Cohen> > >>>>>>>> SAMVA

> > >>>>>>>> Thursday, September 25, 2008 2:28 PM> > >>>>>>>> Re: France chart> > >>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Hello Jolastro> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> The french western astrologers generally use the birth of

> the> > >>>>>>>> fifth> > >>>>>>>> republic> > >>>>>>>> as the birth chart for France. From the interpretation of

> this> > >>>>>>>> unique> > >>>>>>>> event,> > >>>>>>>> two charts came out and are potential candidates (see> attached jtl

> > >>>>>>>> files).> > >>>>>>>> I followed these two charts for two years now.> > >>>>>>>> I have never been convinced by their authenticity.

> > >>>>>>>> Some more research is absolutely necessary.> > >>>>>>>> From Thor's experience with SAMVA USA Chart, you know it> takes a> > >>>>>>>> very

> > >>>>>>>> long> > >>>>>>>> time to reach the goal.> > >>>>>>>> Only full dedication can help finding the authentic chart

> for> > >>>>>>>> France.> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Best Wishes> > >>>>>>>> Jo Cohen

> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> - > > >>>>>>>> " Cosmologer " <cosmologer>

> > >>>>>>>> <SAMVA >> > >>>>>>>> Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:29 AM> > >>>>>>>> Re: France chart

> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Hello Jolastro,> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> There are many times being considered, including the

> founding of> > >>>>>>>> the> > >>>>>>>> 5th> > >>>>>>>> Republic, but I don´t think one in particular has been

> established> > >>>>>>>> yet> > >>>>>>>> as> > >>>>>>>> the authentic birth time of France based on SA. Perhaps

> French> > >>>>>>>> list> > >>>>>>>> members,> > >>>>>>>> like Jo Cohen, know more about the status of this inquiry?

> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Best wishes,> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Thor> > >>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Astro Zem <zemastro (AT) ymail (DOT) com>

> > >>>>>>>> SAMVA > > >>>>>>>> Thursday, September 25, 2008 7:59:25 AM> > >>>>>>>> France chart

> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Hello Professor and list members,> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Could someone give me the chart data for France used by

SA> > >>>>>>>> astrologers> > >>>>>>>> ?> > >>>>>>>> Thank you.> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Bests regards,

> > >>>>>>>> Jolastro> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> ------------ --------- --------- ------> > >>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>

September 28, 2008

Hi Sally,

LMT 0:09, as you can see in http://satva.blogspot.com/search?q=france

Aloha

On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 10:02 AM, Sally Spencer <sally234 wrote:

Hello Jorge,What time zone is used in the First Republic one? Sally

On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 2:09 AM, Jorge Angelino <jorge.angelino wrote:

My dear Thor,

You are welcome.

Yes, you are right...only time will tell us which to addopt

Best wishes

On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 12:54 PM, Cosmologer <cosmologer wrote:

My dear Jorge,

Thank you for catching the error.

Indeed, RAHU aspects 5th house, 9th house, 11th house and 1st house - and not the 7th house. While a direct influence of RAHU on foreign policy is no longer seen through an aspect on the 7th house, there is a strong RAHU influence in the chart, including on both the 9th house of foreign matters and 1st house of self. Moreover, as RAHU exactly aspects the 9th house, its influence comes indirectly through the aspect of 9th lord, SATURN's on the 7th house. This links RAHUs influence to the 7th house. Overall, it would appear a reading of RAHU type diplomacy would be sustained by this chart, although it its effectiveness would appear less, given the weakness of SATURN and its affliction by KETU. This also seems to be consistent with the facts.

As for the question of which Republic event to use, it is a question which event for creating a republic would be more important: a republic that has been numbered as first or the one that is operating at the present time, the fifth. As France, as a nation, is much older than the Republics, as it has existed before they were created, the claim that the birth of a mundane chart for the country is tied to the first such formation appears to be less convincing than the choice of the most recent form of republic.

That said, the predictions can settle the matter.

Best wishes,

Thor

Jorge Angelino <jorge.angelinoSAMVA

Saturday, September 27, 2008 11:40:19 AMRe: Re: A very promising chart for France

My dear Thor,

This Referendum chart seems to be also a very good tool for predictions.

An interesting point is that in all these charts, Venus comes always debilitated...

Your interpretation regarding a strong diplomacy is very interesting...but in the Referendum chart, Rahu is conjunct MEP5, aspectind the 1st, 11th and 9th, not the 7th.

The EXACT aspect over the 7th house only exists in the chart of First Republic.

Best wishes

On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 11:25 AM, Cosmologer <cosmologer wrote:

Dear friends,

Thank you for interesting questions Jolastro and answers .

Regarding a pattern of consumption to relive anxiety, we know that VENUS rules comforts while MERCURY rules the nervous system. Both planets are placed in the 4th house. In a mundane chart the 4th house has to do with collective harmony - how all of us feel about ourselves together as part of a nation.

MERCURY

A combust, well placed but exalted 4th lord MERCURY explains a moderate tendency for nervous tension. MERCURY is a very dynamic planet for Geminis.

VENUS

The placement of MERCURY has an impact on the placement of 5th lord VENUS in the most effective point of the 4TH HOUSE especially as VENUS is also in young age, debiliated and combust. VENUS thus has a pronounced influence, as a weak planet, on the 4th house of collective harmony and education and the 10th house of the executive and foreign trade. Interestingly, the national symbol of France is Marianne, an imgainary heroine of the French revolution. RAHU afflicts the 5th house, thus influencing strongly this house and VENUS. There would be periodic crises in the university education system and involving the young people of France, given JUPITERs placement in the 5th house.

SUN

3rd lord SUN in the chart is also placed in the 4th house. The influence of SUN on MERCURY and VENUS is a mixed blessing in this chart. It suggests initiatives are aimed at increasing or meeting the needs of the population for collective harmony. However, the presence of the SUN makes the other planets combust, which weakens all of them.

So, the chart suggests there is some fundamental tendency for anxiety which people could try to relieve with consuming. We should also keep in mind that consuming to compensate for a happiness deficit is a tendency that is common among most people, but more pronounced in societies emphasising a materialist outlook. Perhaps France has this tendency more pronounced.

GOOD FOOD

The French emphsis on good food, could be explained by this tendency, but more importantly it would be explained by the strong and well placed 2nd lord Moon, with also the 2nd house being free of affliction.

WINE AND TOBACCO

The aspect of RAHU, which rules intoxicants, on the 11th house, 3rd house, 5th house and 7th house, would likely explain the heavy emphasis the French have traditionally placed on wine as part of the daily food intake and the presence of tobacco in modern culture. More recently, the French have begun to reduce their emphasis on tobacco and wine, but the efforts to do so are meeting great resistance. For a typical French smoker, it is his right to smoke that is at stake, and not the impact of his smoke on others. The influence of RAHU on the arts (exact aspect on 5th house owned by VENUS) is also captured in the outlook and image of the much loved singer Serge Gainsburg, who had an ever present Gauloise cigarette on his lips and sported an unkempt look of a permanent hangover.

GOOD NEIGHBORS

The Moon explains why France generally has good and tension free relations with neighboring countries.

WORLD CLASS DIPLOMATS

The aspect of RAHU, the indicator of diplomacy, on the 7th house of foreign policy would also explain why the French are considered world class diplomats. This quality may also be the source of frustration other nations have with France when it comes to the unwillingness of the French leaders to take sides in difficult conflictual situations involving other countries, like the war of the US and UK in Iraq. France, which has had long standing commercial ties with Iraq, was opposed to the invasion.

HIGH FASHION

The good placement and weakness of VENUS along with the affliction of the 5th house by RAHU as well as the placement of 7th lord JUPITER in the 5th house could also explain the haut couture, or high fashion of France. French women have reputation for a sense of style that is admired around the world. The French fashion industry is sophisticated, creative and materialistic, which would be linked to the influence of RAHU and 5th house. It has international appeal due to the placement of JUPITER in the 5th house. Many French fashion executives and their houses have become famous around the world.

SOCIALISED HEALTH INSURANCE

The 2nd lord MOON in the 10th house explains the health insurance system. Indeed, the MOON is the planet of maternal protection and also queen of the cabinet. The placement of MOON in the 10th house of the executive government suggests the French enjoy good socialised health protection.

Monsieur le PRESIDENT

The good placement of the SUN, the lord of the leader of the country, in the 4th house, suggests the President has a role to give calm assurances to his countrymen, but the efforts or the powerful postion are sometimes not having the desired effect. It is interesting that the current President has recently taken a wife that has something of a wild reputation when it comes to past lovers and is an accomplished artist.

Indeed, a picture is emerging of this chart, showing numerous indications in this chart that resonate very well with modern France.

Best wishes,

Thor

SIHA <vkchoudhrySAMVA

Saturday, September 27, 2008 8:34:06 AMRe: Re: A very promising chart for France

Hello Jolastro, The strength of the Moon and weakness of Venus and Mercury do support this.

Best wishes.

-

zemastro

SAMVA

Saturday, September 27, 2008 1:28 PM

Re: A very promising chart for France

Hello SA friends,Is the 1Â° Gemini rising chart consistent with the very good health insurance french system, qualified as " the best in the world " ? Also with the fact that french people are quite anxious: they are