Barack Obama or John McCain: last thoughts / subprime meltdown

November 12, 2008

Hi. I'm new to the group. I'm not an astrologer even though I study it

or I wouldn't be here.

The statement that the policies of the prior administration were the

cause of the difficulties is false if you're talking about Bush.

Subprime loans began as attempted social economic restructuring under

Clinton, who had Cuomo enforce policies on banks. It also tracks back

to changes in law regarding banks that were instituted by Republican

Senator Phil Graham and others which changed what banks could do under

the old Glass-Steagal Act. Read this Village Voice article -

http://www.villagevoice.com/content/printVersion/541234

Since you put in a lot of effort to be precise with notations on

planetary movement, I'd expect you'd want the actual facts on this.

SAMVA , Cosmologer <cosmologer wrote:

>

> Hello Peter,

>

> The increasingly difficult economic situation became an advantage

for the candidacy of the opposition party. In as much as the policies

of the prior administration were the cause of the difficulties,

changing them will avoid such problems in the future. At the same

time, it is possible the new policies will not leade to the same kind

of situation of rapid credit growth and rising asset values. As such,

they may take longer to generate a moderate and more

sustainable growth of incomes. The coming Venus-Saturn sub period in

the SAMVA USA chart (Perpetual Union) suggests there will be no quick

resolution to the difficulties in the coming three years.

>

> Best wishes,

>

> Thor

>

> ________________________________

> Peter P <peterannarbor

> SAMVA

> Saturday, November 8, 2008 7:28:27 PM

> Re: Re: Barack Obama or John McCain: last thoughts

>

> Obama has won the election because Saturn was asking for a change.

McCain would not be a change since he was going to carry Bush Policies

and Republican Policies of giving tax cut to rich people.

>

> --- On Thu, 11/6/08, cosmologer <cosmologer wrote:

>

> cosmologer <cosmologer

> Re: Barack Obama or John McCain: last thoughts

> SAMVA

> Thursday, November 6, 2008, 4:41 PM

>

> Hello DB,

>

> According to Obama could not have won the

election with a Capricorn lagna.This is made clear in earlier messages.

>

> Best wishes,

>

> Thor

>

> SAMVA , " devibhakt " <devibhakt@ ..> wrote:

> >

> > tyring to devil's advocate here - is it possible that Obama's chart

> > is accurate but McCain's chart is not? Can that explain why McCain

> > lost (and not necessarily why Obama won?).

> >

> > DB

> >

> > SAMVA , " SIHA " <vkchoudhry@ > wrote:

> > >

> > > Hello dear Mr. Peter,

> > >

> > > Well this is a long period for seeing whether the prediction is

> > right or wrong. But the figure of 30000 is too distant a vision. As

> > per SAMVA USA chart, which I and most of the members of the group

> > believe, the period of Saturn sub period would run in the main period

> > of Venus after the current sub period of Jupiter is over. Saturn is

> > lord of the eighth house and Venus is placed in the sixth house. The

> > duration of this sub period is 38 months.

> > >

> > > Best wishes.

> > >

> > > -

> > > Peter P

> > > SAMVA

> > > Thursday, November 06, 2008 8:07 PM

> > > Re: Re: Barack Obama or John McCain: last

> > thoughts

> > >

> > > Hi,

> > >

> > > Does any one have ability to predict what would OBAMA'a

> > first term look like? Mahendra Sharma predicts that USA stock market

> > will go to 30000 in next five years. Do you guys see that way???

> > >

> > > --- On Thu, 11/6/08, cosmologer <cosmologer@ > wrote:

> > >

> > > cosmologer <cosmologer@ >

> > > Re: Barack Obama or John McCain: last

> > thoughts

> > > SAMVA

> > > Thursday, November 6, 2008, 12:03 AM

> > >

> > > Hello Draupadi,

> > >

> > > It is possible the prediction was made earlier but shared

> > on SAMVA only recently.

> > >

> > > In any event, the focus is now on drawing lessons from

> > the outcome, including rectifying the chart for Obama.

> > >

> > > One additional point on list interaction, with my hat on

> > as list moderator. While new members are invited and encouraged to

> > post they are asked to please do so in a spirit of respect and

> > consideration for the scholarly and helpful contributions of others.

> > >

> > > Best wishes,

> > >

> > > Thor

> > >

> > > SAMVA , " d_bandhari "

> > <d_bandhari@ ...> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Give us a break. How can you congratulate David on a

> > successful

> > > > prediction when it was made many hours into the

> > election on the very

> > > > day. Exit polls had already been posted as well as the

> > many polls for

> > > > weeks showing Obama leading the popular vote as well as

> > the important

> > > > electoral college states. My own 7 year old

> > successfully predicted the

> > > > outcome of the election as well on those terms alone.

> > Should I then

> > > > consider that a " astrological prediction " too? Anyway,

> > there is a

> > > > 50/50 chance of making the right " prediction " by that

> > point.

> > > >

> > > > Now, if David had made this prediction 2 months ago I

> > would consider

> > > > that a legitimate prediction, but don't say almost

> > halfway into an

> > > > second by second news media frenzy who the winner is

> > and consider that

> > > > a fulfilled prediction.

> > > >

> > > > All the Best,

> > > > Draupadi

> > > >

> > > > SAMVA , " P R Chandna "

> > <prchandna@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Mr. David,

> > > > > Congratulations in correctly predicting the event.

> > > > > Regards

> > > > > P R Chandna

> > > > >

> > > > > -

> > > > > David Hawthorne

> > > > > SAMVA

> > > > > Wednesday, November 05, 2008 12:15 AM

> > > > > RE: Re: Barack Obama or John McCain:

> > last thoughts

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Friends...

> > > > >

> > > > > Assuming the two birth certificates are correct, the

> > rising signs for

> > > > > Senators McCain and Obama are Aquarius and Capricorn,

> > respectively.

> > > > >

> > > > > The sub period ruler for Senator Obama is an exalted

> > Moon, which is a

> > > > > functional benefic.

> > > > >

> > > > > The sub period ruler for Senator McCain is an exalted

> > Mercury,

> > > > which is his

> > > > > most malefic planet.

> > > > >

> > > > > The transit of the Moon will be in Senator Obama's

> > first house

> > > > this evening,

> > > > > and in Senator McCain's twelfth house.

> > > > >

> > > > > Saturn, in the first house in Capricorn in the natal

> > chart for Senator

> > > > > Obama, shows the potential to lead the masses and the

> > poor and the

> > > > needy.

> > > > >

> > > > > In my opinion, Senator Obama has a very good chance

> > to win the

> > > > election.

> > > > >

> > > > > Best wishes,

> > > > >

> > > > > David Hawthorne

> > > > > Fairfield, Iowa USA

> > > > >

> > > > > SAMVA

> > [sAMVA] On

> > > > Behalf Of

> > > > > cosmologer

> > > > > Monday, November 03, 2008 5:00 AM

> > > > > SAMVA

> > > > > Re: Barack Obama or John McCain:

> > last thoughts

> > > > >

> > > > > Hello ,

> > > > >

> > > > > The afflicting aspect of 6th lord JUPITER to 8th lord

> > SATURN, which

> > > > > is now with a 1° 40' orb, may indeed be interpreted

> > as such that the

> > > > > political opposition (Obama) is upsetting groups

> > indicated by Saturn,

> > > > > including miners and coal! The affliction of transit

> > Jupiter to natal

> > > > > 4th lord VENUS is making the communal harmony more

> > fraught with upset

> > > > > and this aspect peaks on November 7.

> > > > >

> > > > > Now, if Obama loses the election on November 4,

> > groups indicated by

> > > > > Saturn, such as those historically receiving unfair

> > treatment, may

> > > > > become upset. The upset there would be expected to

> > become more

> > > > > intense as the affliction becomes exact on November

> > 21, when also the

> > > > > affliction of natal 8th lord SATURN to transit Saturn

> > is becoming

> > > > > close. Due to such affliction in the SAMVA USA chart,

> > it is

> > > > > considered likely that some violence will take place

> > later in

> > > > > November.

> > > > >

> > > > > Of course, this is just conjecture. There is still

> > too much

> > > > > uncertainty regarding the true birth times of Obama

> > and McCain. In

> > > > > any event, even if Obama were to win, the aspects are

> > still there in

> > > > > the SAMVA USA chart, and their expression would then

> > be expected to

> > > > > take another form, such as hinted in my earlier

> > message.

> > > > >

> > > > > Best wishes,

> > > > >

> > > > > Thor

> > > > >

> > > > > PS listmembers are encouraged to include their name

> > or id in the

> > > > > posts.

> > > > >

> > > > > SAMVA , " echong108 "

> > <echong108@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > Moreover, [McCain's] weak but well placed Saturn

> > will also be

> > > > > well

> > > > > > placed, as will his other FBs.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > According to analysis of the electoral college maps

> > by political

> > > > > > pundits, McCain's most realistic way to win the

> > election is to pull

> > > > > > off an upset victory in Pennsylvania. Polls seem to

> > show the race

> > > > > > tightening there. Also, in the last day or so, the

> > McCain campaign

> > > > > is

> > > > > > focusing on some remarks, perhaps taken out of

> > context, that Obama

> > > > > has

> > > > > > said about the coal industry. Pennsylvania is

> > famous for its large

> > > > > > anthracite coal deposits. Also, the McCain campaign

> > seems to be

> > > > > > getting some traction by using " Joe the Plumber " to

> > help appeal to

> > > > > the

> > > > > > masses. He's also recently appeared at a couple of

> > his rallies in

> > > > > the

> > > > > > neighboring state of Ohio.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Saturn the

> > significator for both

> > > > > > coal and plumbers? If McCain somehow manages to

> > pull off a win, it

> > > > > > could be through his Saturn manifesting through

> > these things.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------

> > > > >

November 12, 2008

Hi Skip,

Welcome to SAMVA list.

While this list is dedicated to the study of astrology, and the effort is directed in that direction, the understanding of real phenomena must be there.

The statement in the paragraph you refer to is correct. Moreover, it is not intendend to parce out blame for the policies. And while you have a point that such policies originated with Clinton's efforts to democratize homeownership, including the "reforms" of the lending policies involving Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, which are now consider at the root of the sub-prime mess, these homeownership programs took off under Bush, as the following article makes clear:

http://www.levy.org/pubs/wp_548.pdf

Best wishes,

Thor

Skip Press <skippressSAMVA Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 6:34:41 AM Re: Barack Obama or John McCain: last thoughts / subprime meltdownHi. I'm new to the group. I'm not an astrologer even though I study itor I wouldn't be here. The statement that the policies of the prior administration were thecause of the difficulties is false if you're talking about Bush.Subprime loans began as attempted social economic restructuring underClinton, who had Cuomo enforce policies on banks. It also tracks backto changes in law regarding banks that were instituted by RepublicanSenator Phil Graham and others which changed what banks could do underthe old Glass-Steagal

Act. Read this Village Voice article - http://www.villagevoice.com/content/printVersion/541234Since you put in a lot of effort to be precise with notations onplanetary movement, I'd expect you'd want the actual facts on this.SAMVA , Cosmologer <cosmologer wrote:>> Hello Peter, > > The increasingly difficult economic situation became an advantagefor the candidacy of the opposition party. In as much as the policiesof the prior administration were the cause of the difficulties,changing them will avoid such problems in the future. At the sametime, it is possible the new policies will not leade to the same kindof situation of rapid credit growth and

rising asset values. As such,they may take longer to generate a moderate and moresustainable growth of incomes. The coming Venus-Saturn sub period inthe SAMVA USA chart (Perpetual Union) suggests there will be no quickresolution to the difficulties in the coming three years.> > Best wishes,> > Thor> > > > > ________________________________> Peter P <peterannarbor> SAMVA > Saturday, November 8, 2008 7:28:27 PM> Re: Re: Barack Obama or John McCain: last thoughts> > > Obama has won the election because Saturn was asking for a change.McCain would not be a change since he was going to carry Bush Policiesand Republican Policies of giving tax cut to rich people.

> > --- On Thu, 11/6/08, cosmologer <cosmologer wrote:> > cosmologer <cosmologer> Re: Barack Obama or John McCain: last thoughts> SAMVA > Thursday, November 6, 2008, 4:41 PM> > > Hello DB,> > According to Obama could not have won theelection with a Capricorn lagna.This is made clear in earlier messages.> > Best wishes,> > Thor> > SAMVA , "devibhakt" <devibhakt@ ..> wrote:> >> > tyring to devil's advocate here - is it possible that Obama's chart > > is accurate but McCain's chart is not? Can that explain why McCain > > lost (and not necessarily why Obama won?).> > > >

DB> > > > > > SAMVA , "SIHA" <vkchoudhry@ > wrote:> > >> > > Hello dear Mr. Peter,> > > > > > Well this is a long period for seeing whether the prediction is > > right or wrong. But the figure of 30000 is too distant a vision. As > > per SAMVA USA chart, which I and most of the members of the group > > believe, the period of Saturn sub period would run in the main period > > of Venus after the current sub period of Jupiter is over. Saturn is > > lord of the eighth house and Venus is placed in the sixth house. The > > duration of this sub period is 38 months. > > > > > > Best wishes.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > >

Peter P > > > SAMVA > > > Thursday, November 06, 2008 8:07 PM> > > Re: Re: Barack Obama or John McCain: last > > thoughts> > > > > > > > > Hi,> > > > > > Does any one have ability to predict what would OBAMA'a > > first term look like? Mahendra Sharma predicts that USA stock market > > will go to 30000 in next five years. Do you guys see that way??? > > > > > > --- On Thu, 11/6/08, cosmologer <cosmologer@ > wrote:> > > > > > cosmologer <cosmologer@ >> > > Re: Barack Obama or John McCain: last > > thoughts> > > SAMVA > > > Thursday, November 6, 2008, 12:03 AM> > > > > > > > > Hello

Draupadi,> > > > > > It is possible the prediction was made earlier but shared > > on SAMVA only recently.> > > > > > In any event, the focus is now on drawing lessons from > > the outcome, including rectifying the chart for Obama.> > > > > > One additional point on list interaction, with my hat on > > as list moderator. While new members are invited and encouraged to > > post they are asked to please do so in a spirit of respect and > > consideration for the scholarly and helpful contributions of others.> > > > > > Best wishes,> > > > > > Thor > > > > > > SAMVA , "d_bandhari" > > <d_bandhari@ ...> wrote:> > > >> > > > Give us a break. How can you congratulate David on a >

> successful> > > > prediction when it was made many hours into the > > election on the very> > > > day. Exit polls had already been posted as well as the > > many polls for> > > > weeks showing Obama leading the popular vote as well as > > the important> > > > electoral college states. My own 7 year old > > successfully predicted the> > > > outcome of the election as well on those terms alone. > > Should I then> > > > consider that a "astrological prediction" too? Anyway, > > there is a> > > > 50/50 chance of making the right "prediction" by that > > point.> > > > > > > > Now, if David had made this prediction 2 months ago I > > would consider> > > > that a legitimate prediction, but don't say almost > >

halfway into an> > > > second by second news media frenzy who the winner is > > and consider that> > > > a fulfilled prediction.> > > > > > > > All the Best,> > > > Draupadi> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SAMVA , "P R Chandna" > > <prchandna@> wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Dear Mr. David,> > > > > Congratulations in correctly predicting the event.> > > > > Regards> > > > > P R Chandna> > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > David Hawthorne > > > > > SAMVA > > > > > Wednesday, November 05, 2008 12:15 AM> > > > >

RE: Re: Barack Obama or John McCain: > > last thoughts> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Friends...> > > > > > > > > > Assuming the two birth certificates are correct, the > > rising signs for> > > > > Senators McCain and Obama are Aquarius and Capricorn, > > respectively.> > > > > > > > > > The sub period ruler for Senator Obama is an exalted > > Moon, which is a> > > > > functional benefic.> > > > > > > > > > The sub period ruler for Senator McCain is an exalted > > Mercury,> > > > which is his> > > > > most malefic planet.> > > > > > > > > > The transit of the Moon will be in Senator Obama's > >

first house> > > > this evening,> > > > > and in Senator McCain's twelfth house.> > > > > > > > > > Saturn, in the first house in Capricorn in the natal > > chart for Senator> > > > > Obama, shows the potential to lead the masses and the > > poor and the> > > > needy.> > > > > > > > > > In my opinion, Senator Obama has a very good chance > > to win the> > > > election.> > > > > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > > > > > David Hawthorne> > > > > Fairfield, Iowa USA> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SAMVA >

> [sAMVA] On> > > > Behalf Of> > > > > cosmologer> > > > > Monday, November 03, 2008 5:00 AM> > > > > SAMVA > > > > > Re: Barack Obama or John McCain: > > last thoughts> > > > > > > > > > Hello ,> > > > > > > > > > The afflicting aspect of 6th lord JUPITER to 8th lord > > SATURN, which > > > > > is now with a 1° 40' orb, may indeed be interpreted > > as such that the > > > > > political opposition (Obama) is upsetting groups > > indicated by Saturn, > > > > > including miners and coal! The affliction of transit > > Jupiter to natal > > > > > 4th lord VENUS is making the communal harmony more

> > fraught with upset > > > > > and this aspect peaks on November 7. > > > > > > > > > > Now, if Obama loses the election on November 4, > > groups indicated by > > > > > Saturn, such as those historically receiving unfair > > treatment, may > > > > > become upset. The upset there would be expected to > > become more > > > > > intense as the affliction becomes exact on November > > 21, when also the > > > > > affliction of natal 8th lord SATURN to transit Saturn > > is becoming > > > > > close. Due to such affliction in the SAMVA USA chart, > > it is > > > > > considered likely that some violence will take place > > later in > > > > > November.> > > > > > >

> > > Of course, this is just conjecture. There is still > > too much > > > > > uncertainty regarding the true birth times of Obama > > and McCain. In > > > > > any event, even if Obama were to win, the aspects are > > still there in > > > > > the SAMVA USA chart, and their expression would then > > be expected to > > > > > take another form, such as hinted in my earlier > > message.> > > > > > > > > > Best wishes,> > > > > > > > > > Thor> > > > > > > > > > PS listmembers are encouraged to include their name > > or id in the > > > > > posts.> > > > > > > > > > SAMVA , "echong108" > > <echong108@>

wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > > Moreover, [McCain's] weak but well placed Saturn > > will also be > > > > > well> > > > > > placed, as will his other FBs.> > > > > > > > > > > > According to analysis of the electoral college maps > > by political> > > > > > pundits, McCain's most realistic way to win the > > election is to pull> > > > > > off an upset victory in Pennsylvania. Polls seem to > > show the race> > > > > > tightening there. Also, in the last day or so, the > > McCain campaign > > > > > is> > > > > > focusing on some remarks, perhaps taken out of > > context, that Obama > > > > > has> > > > > > said about the

coal industry. Pennsylvania is > > famous for its large> > > > > > anthracite coal deposits. Also, the McCain campaign > > seems to be> > > > > > getting some traction by using "Joe the Plumber" to > > help appeal to > > > > > the> > > > > > masses. He's also recently appeared at a couple of > > his rallies in > > > > > the> > > > > > neighboring state of Ohio.> > > > > > > > > > > > Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Saturn the > > significator for both> > > > > > coal and plumbers? If McCain somehow manages to > > pull off a win, it> > > > > > could be through his Saturn manifesting through > > these things.> > > > > >> > > > >

> > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------> > > > > > > > > >