Re : France: liberation of Paris/De Gaulle returns

[Guest guest]

Hello Professor, Thor, Jo, Rémi and all list members,I'm following this discussion but don't feel expert enough in SA to participate more. Concerning the Referendum chart (28/09/1958 Paris; AS 1* Gemini), I'm waiting for stationnary transit of Rahu in 8H to natal Mercury from end of may to august.Best wishes,JolastroDe : Cosmologer <cosmologerÀ :

samva Envoyé le : Lundi, 6 Avril 2009, 22h44mn 46sObjet : France: liberation of Paris/De Gaulle returns

 

Dear Jo, Jolastro and other interested list members,

 

 

 

I have been considering a chart for France.

 

 

I have been thinking that if there is a modern event that could be equated with the rebirth of France, it could be associated with the rupture in French self-governance during World War II, when France was under German rule. While a government in exile existed it was more symbolic than actual. So, I began to research the history of this time and found the following:

 

"The liberation of Paris took place on August 25 1944 when general Dietrich von Choltitz accepted the French ultimatum and surrendered to general Philippe Leclerc de Hauteclocque, commander of the Free French 2nd Armored Division, ignoring orders from Hitler that Paris should be held to the last and to destroy the city."

http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Liberation_ of_France# Liberation_ of_France

 

De Gaulle’s provisional government takes over liberated France on August 25, 1944

On August 15, U.S. Gen. Jacob Dever's Sixth Army Group, consisting of a combined U.S. and French troops, conducted Operation Dragoon, invading the port city Marseille and marching up the Rhône River valley. Before Dever's forces met the other Allies, the Germans managed to remove more than half their forces from southern France. Still, on August 19, Supreme Allied Commander Dwight D. Eisenhower changed his original plan of stopping at the Seine, and decided to push on toward Germany. Spurred by the advancing Allies, Free French forces rose up in active resistance. By August 25, the U.S. V Corps entered Paris behind the French 2nd Armored Division, and Gen.. Charles de Gaulle established his government that day.

http://www.answers. com/topic/ liberation- of-france

　

DeGaulle returns to Paris for a rousing reception

"At the time he returned to France in August 1944 (he had not been told in advance of the D Day landings) his authority as leader of Free France was unquestioned and he received a tumultuous reception when he walked down the Champs Elysées on 25 August. To the status he enjoyed as liberator

was added the authority he possessed as head of a provisional government which contained representatives of all France's political forces, including the powerful Communist Party."

http://www.answers. com/topic/ charles-de- gaulle

De Gaulle's speech on 25 August 1944

Why do you desire that we hide the emotion which seizes us all, men and women, who are here, at home, in Paris that stood up to liberate itself and that knew how to do this with its own hands? No! We will not hide this deep and sacred emotion. These are minutes which go beyond each of our poor lives. Paris! Outraged Paris! Broken Paris! Martyred Paris! But liberated Paris! Liberated by itself, liberated by its people with the help of the French armies, with the support and the help of all France, of the France that fights, of the only France, of the real France, of the eternal France! Well! Since the enemy which held Paris has capitulated into our hands, France returns to Paris, to her home. She returns bloody, but quite resolute. She returns there enlightened by the immense lesson, but more certain than ever of her duties and of her rights. I speak of her duties first, and I will sum them

all up by saying that for now, it is a matter of the duties of war. The enemy staggers, but he is not vanquished yet. He remains in our territory. It will not even be enough that we have, with the help of our dear and admirable Allies, chased him from our home for us to consider ourselves satisfied after what has happened. We want to enter his territory as is fitting, as victors. This is why the French vanguard has entered Paris with guns blazing. This is why the French grande armée of Italy has landed in Southern France (Operation Dragoon) and is advancing quickly up north through the Rhone valley. This is why our brave and dear Forces of the Interior will arm itself with modern weapons. It is for this revenge, this vengeance and justice, that we will keep fighting until the last day, until the day of total and complete victory. This duty of war, all the men who are here and all those who hear us in France know that it demands national unity. We, who

have lived the greatest hours of our History, we have nothing else to wish than to show ourselves, up to the end, worthy of France. Long live France!"

http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Liberation_ of_Paris# De_Gaulle. 27s_speech_ .2825_August. 29

 

It seems to me that the time of the Speech by De Gaulle could be worth investgating for seeing if a chart on this day could work..

 

The Three Parties governed from 1944 to 1946, or until the constitution for the Fourth Republic took effect on Oct. 13 1946.

 

Interestingly, for the authentic chart of France I wuold think that the planets Venus (giving enjoyment and arts), Saturn (legacy of ancient heritage) and Sun (the State) would be strong and importantly placed in the chart. A scorpio rising chart on this day, seems to foot the bill, but it is just one possibility. I would rather first look at the chart when De Gaulle made his triumphant speech before exploring other possibilities.

 

Best wishes,

 

 

Thor

 

PS The German army was finally pushed out of France on January 25, 1945..

 

"The Battle of the Bulge officially ended when the 501st airborne met the 101st on 25 January 1945...In the wake of the defeat, many experienced German units were left severely depleted of men and equipment, as survivors retreated to the defences of the Siegfried Line."

 

"Operation North Wind (Unternehmen Nordwind) was the last major German offensive of the Second World War on the Western Front. It began on 1 January 1945 in Alsace and Lorraine in north-eastern France, and it ended on 25 January."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Jolastro,

 

Good, we can keep an eye on this.

 

It would be useful to pinpoint the specific indications involved as per:

 

http://www.yournetastrologer.com/mundane_astrology.htm

 

Best wishes

 

Thor

 

SAMVA , Astro Zem <zemastro wrote:

>

>

> Hello Professor, Thor, Jo, Rémi and all list members,

>

> I'm following this discussion but don't feel expert enough in SA to

participate more. Concerning the Referendum chart (28/09/1958 Paris; AS 1*

Gemini), I'm waiting for stationnary transit of Rahu in 8H to natal Mercury from

end of may to august.

>

> Best wishes,

> Jolastro

________________________________

> De : Cosmologer <cosmologer

> À : samva

> Envoyé le : Lundi, 6 Avril 2009, 22h44mn 46s

> Objet : France: liberation of Paris/De Gaulle returns

>

>

> Dear Jo, Jolastro and other interested list members,

>

> I have been considering a chart for France.

>

> I have been thinking that if there is a modern event that could be equated

with the rebirth of France, it could be associated with the rupture in French

self-governance during World War II, when France was under German rule. While a

government in exile existed it was more symbolic than actual. So, I began to

research the history of this time and found the following:

>

> " The liberation of Paris took place on August 25 1944 when general Dietrich

von Choltitz accepted the French ultimatum and surrendered to general Philippe

Leclerc de Hauteclocque, commander of the Free French 2nd Armored Division,

ignoring orders from Hitler that Paris should be held to the last and to destroy

the city. "

> http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Liberation_ of_France# Liberation_ of_France

> De Gaulle’s provisional government takes over liberated France on August

25, 1944

> On August 15, U.S. Gen. Jacob Dever's Sixth Army Group, consisting of a

combined U.S. and French troops, conducted Operation Dragoon, invading the port

city Marseille and marching up the Rhône River valley. Before Dever's forces

met the other Allies, the Germans managed to remove more than half their forces

from southern France. Still, on August 19, Supreme Allied Commander Dwight D.

Eisenhower changed his original plan of stopping at the Seine, and decided to

push on toward Germany. Spurred by the advancing Allies, Free French forces rose

up in active resistance. By August 25, the U.S. V Corps entered Paris behind the

French 2nd Armored Division, and Gen. Charles de Gaulle established his

government that day.http://www.answers. com/topic/ liberation- of-france　

> DeGaulle returns to Paris for a rousing reception

> " At the time he returned to France in August 1944 (he had not been told in

advance of the D Day landings) his authority as leader of Free France was

unquestionedand he received a tumultuousreception when he walked down the Champs

Elysées on 25 August. To the status he enjoyed as liberator was added the

authority he possessed as head of a provisional government which contained

representatives of all France's political forces, including the powerful

Communist Party. "

> http://www.answers. com/topic/ charles-de- gaulle

>

> De Gaulle's speech on 25 August 1944

> " " Why do you desire that we hide the emotion which seizes us all, men and

women, who are here, at home, in Paris that stood up to liberate itself and that

knew how to do this with its own hands? No! We will not hide this deep and

sacred emotion. These are minutes which go beyond each of our poor lives. Paris!

Outraged Paris! Broken Paris! Martyred Paris! But liberated Paris! Liberated by

itself, liberated by its people with the help of the French armies, with the

support and the help of all France, of the France that fights, of the only

France, of the real France, of the eternal France! Well! Since the enemy which

held Paris has capitulated into our hands, France returns to Paris, to her home.

She returns bloody, but quite resolute. She returns there enlightened by the

immense lesson, but more certain than ever of her duties and of her rights. I

speak of her duties first, and I will sum them all up by saying that for now, it

is a matter of the duties of

> war. The enemy staggers, but he is not vanquished yet. He remains in our

territory. It will not even be enough that we have, with the help of our dear

and admirable Allies, chased him from our home for us to consider ourselves

satisfied after what has happened. We want to enter his territory as is fitting,

as victors. This is why the French vanguard has entered Paris with guns blazing.

This is why the French grande armée of Italy has landed in Southern France

(Operation Dragoon) and is advancing quickly up north through the Rhone valley.

This is why our brave and dear Forces of the Interior will arm itself with

modern weapons. It is for this revenge, this vengeance and justice, that we will

keep fighting until the last day, until the day of total and complete victory.

This duty of war, all the men who are here and all those who hear us in France

know that it demands national unity. We, who have lived the greatest hours of

our History, we have nothing

> else to wish than to show ourselves, up to the end, worthy of France. Long

live France! " http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Liberation_ of_Paris# De_Gaulle.

27s_speech_ .2825_August. 29

>

> It seems to me that the time of the Speech by De Gaulle could be worth

investgating for seeing if a chart on this day could work.

>

> The Three Parties governed from 1944 to 1946, or until the constitution for

the Fourth Republic took effect on Oct. 13 1946.

>

> Interestingly, for the authentic chart of France I wuold think that the

planets Venus (giving enjoyment and arts), Saturn (legacy of ancient heritage)

and Sun (the State) would be strong and importantly placed in the chart. A

scorpio rising chart on this day, seems to foot the bill, but it is just one

possibility. I would rather first look at the chart when De Gaulle made his

triumphant speech before exploring other possibilities.

>

> Best wishes,

>

> Thor

>

> PS The German army was finally pushed out of France on January 25, 1945.

>

> " The Battle of the Bulge officially ended when the 501st airborne met the

101st on 25 January 1945...In the wake of the defeat, many experienced German

units were left severely depleted of men and equipment, as survivors retreated

to the defences of the Siegfried Line.. "

>

> " Operation North Wind (Unternehmen Nordwind) was the last major German

offensive of the Second World War on the Western Front. It began on 1 January

1945 in Alsace and Lorraine in north-eastern France, and it ended on 25

January. "

>