Guest guest Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 Dear friends There is a general question for situation like this: separation of some Republic inside Multirepublic country as it was Serbia & Montenegro, for example. During june 2006. Montenegro declared independence so, therefore Serbia got independence too at the same date or no? Of course Serbia accepted that act of Montenegro. I mean could we take as time of birth of Serbia the same time as birth of separated Montenegro, which was declared independence. Actualy it was automaticlly Serbia got indepence, or we must have some time of lets say Declaration statement of independence of Serbia? It would be very strange to have the same birth for both of the countries? If it is not case, what should I find to confirm the date? I could not find any Declaration statement of independence for Serbia. Pls sugest kind regards Zoran Gligoric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 Dear Zoran,Welcome to SAMVA.That is a valid question, but I believe the answer is in the negative. The creation of Serbia would be different from that of Montenegro. For instance, if you read the description of the creation of the United Kingdom you will see how it is different from the creation of Ireland.The horoscope of the United Kingdom http://cosmologer.blogspot.com/2009/01/horoscope-of-united-kingdom.htmlIn other words, as Serbia is the larger entity and Montenegro was pushing for independence despite the will of Serbia to remain together, the act cannot be seen as the birth of Seriba, especially as most everything else stayed the same in Serbia.First, let us study the question of the formation of Montenegro at that time.The chart data of the Independence of Montenegro were given by Serbian astrologer Branka Stamenkovic in the ISAR newsletter. Source: http://www.astrologie.ws/week/vol413.htm This time was the declaration of an independent republic of Montenegro by the Prime Minister (or President) of the country at 8:28 pm 3 June 2006 (-0:00 EET) Podgorica, giving 22° 54' Scorpio rising.The scorpio rising chart has a strong 10th lord Sun in the MEP of the 7th house, giving ample international influence. Other placements include L4 Saturn strong in H9. L9 Moon strong in H10. Rahu strong in H5. The weakenesses in this chart include L11 Mercury badly placed in H8. L12 Venus badly placed in H6. L2 Jupiter badly placed in H12. L6 Mars debilitated in H9. Ketu weak in H11 on account of dispositor. The afflictions include L6 Mars afflicted by Rahu in H5 and L2 Jupiter in H12 afflicted by L12 in H6.Other times were also identified, such as 1:30 pm time on the same day giving 13° 18° Leo rising. I forget the reason for this time. Finally, another possible time is when the Montenegran people decided, using the time when the polls closed, in a referendum, to seperate from Serbia and form their own national identity. The referendum closed at 9:00 pm on 21 May 2006. SAMVA message #10666 SAMVA/message/10666 MONTENEGROMay 21, 2006 9:00:00 PM -02:00 EETPodgorica Longitude: 19E14 Latitude: 42N26Lahiri Ayanamsha: 23:56 Current Period: JU/ME/RAAsc 18° 56' Scorpio Tuesday, 23 May 2006, 07:44 GMT 08:44 UKMontenegro vote result confirmed. The question of independence has divided Montenegro. Montenegro has narrowly voted for independence from Serbia in an historic referendum, complete official results have confirmed. The full count gave 55.5% in favour of breaking the union with Belgrade. The required margin for victory was 55%. Next, let us turn to the formation of modern Serbia. Let me mention first that Nicholas Campion in his "Book of World Horoscopes" (1996 edition) suggests numerous events. "Turkey gave Serbia a measure of self government in 1817 and autonomy was guaranteed by the Treaty of Adrianopole on 14 September 1829. Full independence was recognized by the Treaty of Berlin, signed at 2:30 pm LMT on 13 July 1878 in Berlin. The horoscope given for Serbia is set for this date but for the equivalent time of 2:58 LMT in the capital, Belgrade." (p. 328) SERBIA 13 July 1878 02:58 pm (LMT) around 28° Libra In November 1918, Serbia became a state in the federation of Yugoslavia along with Montenegro and the former Austrian possessions of Croatia and Bosnia. Campion further mentions the events in the break up of Yugoslavia, "Serbia was recognized as an independent country sometime between 2 and 14 September 1991 by Ukraine, following its own independence. Serbia itself maintained that it was still part of Yugoslavia consisting solely of itself and Montenegro. However, the name Yugoslavia was replaced by Serbia in popular usage." Jorge Angelino rectified all the nations in the world using his own technique, presenting most of his findings on SAMVA. While his results have not yet been verified by thorough SA analysis, perhaps you would be interested to explore also his chart for Serbia using the method of SA to analyse a) the natal potential, b) match with historical events and c) make predictions based on SA: YUGOSLAVIA (SERBIA, MONTENEGRO, CROATIA and BOSNIA) 1 December 1918 8:03 pm (-1:99 CET) Belgrade 11° 12' Cancer rising The historical event is as follows: 1918 24. November - The Central Committee of the People's Council of the SCS proclaimed the unification of the state of Slovenes, Croats and the Serbs living in the area of the former Austro-Hungarian Monarchy and the Kingdom of Serbia and Montenegro into a single state of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes. 1. December - A delegation of the People's Council of SCS and Regent Aleksandar Karadjordjevic proclaimed the common state in Belgrade - the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes. SAMVA message #9845 SAMVA/message/9845 Best wishes, Thor________________________________Zoran Gligoric <z_gligoricMundane astrology <SAMVA >Friday, April 10, 2009 9:01:36 AM birth chart of Serbia..Dear friendsThere is a general question for situation like this: separation of some Republic inside Multirepublic country as it was Serbia & Montenegro, for example. During june 2006. Montenegro declared independence so, therefore Serbia got independence too at the same date or no? Of course Serbia accepted that act of Montenegro.I mean could we take as time of birth of Serbia the same time as birth of separated Montenegro, which was declared independence. Actualy it was automaticlly Serbia got indepence, or we must have some time of lets say Declaration statement of independence of Serbia?It would be very strange to have the same birth for both of the countries? If it is not case, what should I find to confirm the date? I could not find any Declaration statement of independence for Serbia. Pls sugestkind regardsZoran Gligoric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 Dear Thor thank you very much for valuable info and ideas. Certanlly I will explore the matter kind regards Zoran--- On Fri, 4/10/09, Cosmologer <cosmologer wrote: Cosmologer <cosmologerRe: birth chart of Serbia..SAMVA Date: Friday, April 10, 2009, 12:07 PM Dear Zoran,Welcome to SAMVA.That is a valid question, but I believe the answer is in the negative. The creation of Serbia would be different from that of Montenegro. For instance, if you read the description of the creation of the United Kingdom you will see how it is different from the creation of Ireland.The horoscope of the United Kingdom http://cosmologer. blogspot. com/2009/ 01/horoscope- of-united- kingdom.htmlIn other words, as Serbia is the larger entity and Montenegro was pushing for independence despite the will of Serbia to remain together, the act cannot be seen as the birth of Seriba, especially as most everything else stayed the same in Serbia.First, let us study the question of the formation of Montenegro at that time.The chart data of the Independence of Montenegro were given by Serbian astrologer Branka Stamenkovic in the ISAR newsletter. Source: http://www.astrolog ie.ws/week/ vol413.htm This time was the declaration of an independent republic of Montenegro by the Prime Minister (or President) of the country at 8:28 pm 3 June 2006 (-0:00 EET) Podgorica, giving 22° 54' Scorpio rising.The scorpio rising chart has a strong 10th lord Sun in the MEP of the 7th house, giving ample international influence. Other placements include L4 Saturn strong in H9. L9 Moon strong in H10. Rahu strong in H5. The weakenesses in this chart include L11 Mercury badly placed in H8. L12 Venus badly placed in H6. L2 Jupiter badly placed in H12. L6 Mars debilitated in H9. Ketu weak in H11 on account of dispositor. The afflictions include L6 Mars afflicted by Rahu in H5 and L2 Jupiter in H12 afflicted by L12 in H6.Other times were also identified, such as 1:30 pm time on the same day giving 13° 18° Leo rising. I forget the reason for this time. Finally, another possible time is when the Montenegran people decided, using the time when the polls closed, in a referendum, to seperate from Serbia and form their own national identity. The referendum closed at 9:00 pm on 21 May 2006. SAMVA message #10666 http://groups. / group/SAMVA/ message/10666 MONTENEGROMay 21, 2006 9:00:00 PM -02:00 EETPodgorica Longitude: 19E14 Latitude: 42N26Lahiri Ayanamsha: 23:56 Current Period: JU/ME/RAAsc 18° 56' Scorpio Tuesday, 23 May 2006, 07:44 GMT 08:44 UKMontenegro vote result confirmed. The question of independence has divided Montenegro. Montenegro has narrowly voted for independence from Serbia in an historic referendum, complete official results have confirmed. The full count gave 55.5% in favour of breaking the union with Belgrade. The required margin for victory was 55%. Next, let us turn to the formation of modern Serbia. Let me mention first that Nicholas Campion in his "Book of World Horoscopes" (1996 edition) suggests numerous events. "Turkey gave Serbia a measure of self government in 1817 and autonomy was guaranteed by the Treaty of Adrianopole on 14 September 1829. Full independence was recognized by the Treaty of Berlin, signed at 2:30 pm LMT on 13 July 1878 in Berlin. The horoscope given for Serbia is set for this date but for the equivalent time of 2:58 LMT in the capital, Belgrade." (p. 328) SERBIA 13 July 1878 02:58 pm (LMT) around 28° Libra In November 1918, Serbia became a state in the federation of Yugoslavia along with Montenegro and the former Austrian possessions of Croatia and Bosnia. Campion further mentions the events in the break up of Yugoslavia, "Serbia was recognized as an independent country sometime between 2 and 14 September 1991 by Ukraine, following its own independence. Serbia itself maintained that it was still part of Yugoslavia consisting solely of itself and Montenegro. However, the name Yugoslavia was replaced by Serbia in popular usage." Jorge Angelino rectified all the nations in the world using his own technique, presenting most of his findings on SAMVA. While his results have not yet been verified by thorough SA analysis, perhaps you would be interested to explore also his chart for Serbia using the method of SA to analyse a) the natal potential, b) match with historical events and c) make predictions based on SA: YUGOSLAVIA (SERBIA, MONTENEGRO, CROATIA and BOSNIA) 1 December 1918 8:03 pm (-1:99 CET) Belgrade 11° 12' Cancer rising The historical event is as follows: 1918 24. November - The Central Committee of the People's Council of the SCS proclaimed the unification of the state of Slovenes, Croats and the Serbs living in the area of the former Austro-Hungarian Monarchy and the Kingdom of Serbia and Montenegro into a single state of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes. 1. December - A delegation of the People's Council of SCS and Regent Aleksandar Karadjordjevic proclaimed the common state in Belgrade - the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes. SAMVA message #9845 http://groups. / group/SAMVA/ message/9845 Best wishes, Thor____________ _________ _________ __Zoran Gligoric <z_gligoric >Mundane astrology <SAMVA >Friday, April 10, 2009 9:01:36 AM birth chart of Serbia..Dear friendsThere is a general question for situation like this: separation of some Republic inside Multirepublic country as it was Serbia & Montenegro, for example. During june 2006. Montenegro declared independence so, therefore Serbia got independence too at the same date or no? Of course Serbia accepted that act of Montenegro.I mean could we take as time of birth of Serbia the same time as birth of separated Montenegro, which was declared independence. Actualy it was automaticlly Serbia got indepence, or we must have some time of lets say Declaration statement of independence of Serbia?It would be very strange to have the same birth for both of the countries? If it is not case, what should I find to confirm the date? I could not find any Declaration statement of independence for Serbia. Pls sugestkind regardsZoran Gligoric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 Dear Zoran, You are welcome and we look forward to hear more about your efforts at researching a chart for Serbia. Best wishes, Thor SAMVA , Zoran Gligoric <z_gligoric wrote: > > Dear Thor > > thank you very much for valuable info and ideas. Certanlly I will explore the matter > > kind regards > Zoran > > --- On Fri, 4/10/09, Cosmologer <cosmologer wrote: > > > Cosmologer <cosmologer > Re: birth chart of Serbia.. > SAMVA > Friday, April 10, 2009, 12:07 PM > > > > Dear Zoran, > > Welcome to SAMVA. > > That is a valid question, but I believe the answer is in the negative. The creation of Serbia would be different from that of Montenegro. > > For instance, if you read the description of the creation of the United Kingdom you will see how it is different from the creation of Ireland. > > The horoscope of the United Kingdom > http://cosmologer. blogspot. com/2009/ 01/horoscope- of-united- kingdom.html > > In other words, as Serbia is the larger entity and Montenegro was pushing for independence despite the will of Serbia to remain together, the act cannot be seen as the birth of Seriba, especially as most everything else stayed the same in Serbia. > > First, let us study the question of the formation of Montenegro at that time. > > The chart data of the Independence of Montenegro were given by Serbian astrologer Branka Stamenkovic in the ISAR newsletter. Source: http://www.astrolog ie.ws/week/ vol413.htm > > This time was the declaration of an independent republic of Montenegro by the Prime Minister (or President) of the country at 8:28 pm 3 June 2006 (-0:00 EET) Podgorica, giving 22° 54' Scorpio rising. > > The scorpio rising chart has a strong 10th lord Sun in the MEP of the 7th house, giving ample international influence. Other placements include L4 Saturn strong in H9. L9 Moon strong in H10. Rahu strong in H5. The weakenesses in this chart include L11 Mercury badly placed in H8. L12 Venus badly placed in H6. L2 Jupiter badly placed in H12. L6 Mars debilitated in H9. Ketu weak in H11 on account of dispositor. The afflictions include L6 Mars afflicted by Rahu in H5 and L2 Jupiter in H12 afflicted by L12 in H6. > > Other times were also identified, such as 1:30 pm time on the same day giving 13° 18° Leo rising. I forget the reason for this time. > > Finally, another possible time is when the Montenegran people decided, using the time when the polls closed, in a referendum, to seperate from Serbia and form their own national identity. The referendum closed at 9:00 pm on 21 May 2006. > > SAMVA message #10666 > http://groups. / group/SAMVA/ message/10666 > > MONTENEGRO > May 21, 2006 9:00:00 PM -02:00 EET > Podgorica Longitude: 19E14 Latitude: 42N26 > Lahiri Ayanamsha: 23:56 Current Period: JU/ME/RA > Asc 18° 56' Scorpio > > Tuesday, 23 May 2006, 07:44 GMT 08:44 UK > Montenegro vote result confirmed. The question of independence has divided Montenegro. Montenegro has narrowly voted for independence from Serbia in an historic referendum, complete official results have confirmed. The full count gave 55.5% in favour of breaking the union with Belgrade. The required margin for victory was 55%. > > Next, let us turn to the formation of modern Serbia. Let me mention first that Nicholas Campion in his " Book of World Horoscopes " (1996 edition) suggests numerous events. > > " Turkey gave Serbia a measure of self government in 1817 and autonomy was guaranteed by the Treaty of Adrianopole on 14 September 1829. Full independence was recognized by the Treaty of Berlin, signed at 2:30 pm LMT on 13 July 1878 in Berlin. The horoscope given for Serbia is set for this date but for the equivalent time of 2:58 LMT in the capital, Belgrade. " (p. 328) > > SERBIA > 13 July 1878 > 02:58 pm (LMT) > around 28° Libra > > In November 1918, Serbia became a state in the federation of Yugoslavia along with Montenegro and the former Austrian possessions of Croatia and Bosnia. > > > Campion further mentions the events in the break up of Yugoslavia, " Serbia was recognized as an independent country sometime between 2 and 14 September 1991 by Ukraine, following its own independence. Serbia itself maintained that it was still part of Yugoslavia consisting solely of itself and Montenegro. However, the name Yugoslavia was replaced by Serbia in popular usage. " > > Jorge Angelino rectified all the nations in the world using his own technique, presenting most of his findings on SAMVA. While his results have not yet been verified by thorough SA analysis, perhaps you would be interested to explore also his chart for Serbia using the method of SA to analyse a) the natal potential, b) match with historical events and c) make predictions based on SA: > > YUGOSLAVIA (SERBIA, MONTENEGRO, CROATIA and BOSNIA) > 1 December 1918 > 8:03 pm (-1:99 CET) > Belgrade > 11° 12' Cancer rising > > The historical event is as follows: > > 1918 > 24. November - The Central Committee of the People's Council of the SCS proclaimed the unification of the state of Slovenes, Croats and the Serbs living in the area of the former Austro-Hungarian Monarchy and the Kingdom of Serbia and Montenegro into a single state of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes. > > 1. December - A delegation of the People's Council of SCS and Regent Aleksandar Karadjordjevic proclaimed the common state in Belgrade - the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes. > SAMVA message #9845 > http://groups. / group/SAMVA/ message/9845 > > Best wishes, > > Thor > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > Zoran Gligoric <z_gligoric > > Mundane astrology <SAMVA > > Friday, April 10, 2009 9:01:36 AM > birth chart of Serbia.. > > Dear friends > > There is a general question for situation like this: separation of some Republic inside Multirepublic country as it was Serbia & Montenegro, for example. During june 2006. Montenegro declared independence so, therefore Serbia got independence too at the same date or no? Of course Serbia accepted that act of Montenegro. > > I mean could we take as time of birth of Serbia the same time as birth of separated Montenegro, which was declared independence. Actualy it was automaticlly Serbia got indepence, or we must have some time of lets say Declaration statement of independence of Serbia? > > It would be very strange to have the same birth for both of the countries? If it is not case, what should I find to confirm the date? I could not find any Declaration statement of independence for Serbia. > > Pls sugest > > kind regards > Zoran Gligoric > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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