Guest guest Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 Hello my dear , Thank you very much for giving your wise assessment of the most likely moment signalling the birth of this country. Indeed, such moments are almost never the same - with each birth being unique in some sense. This moment also seems to have special significance as I shall narrate both in terms of the history of the event itself and the natal potential seen in the chart. First, let us explain what the treaty was all about. The Anglo-Irish Treaty, officially called the Articles of Agreement for a Treaty Between Great Britain and Ireland, was a treaty between the Government of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland and representatives of the de facto Irish Republic that concluded the Irish War of Independence. It established an autonomous dominion, known as the Irish Free State, within the British Empire and provided Northern Ireland, which had been created by the 1920 Government of Ireland Act, an option to opt out of the Irish Free State, which it exercised. Fortunately, we have (albeit still at this stage unconfirmed information) that the treaty was signed in London at 2:20 am on December 6, 1921 by representatives of the British government and envoys of the Irish Republic who claimed plenipotentiary status. Second, there was tension surrounding the signing and a key representative of Ireland, Michael Collins, noted that by signing the treaty he was actually signing his own death warrant. He turned out to per prescient and was assassinated in an ambush in August 1921 by those independence fighters who wanted a more clean break with Great Britain. Over time Collins proved right about signing the treaty and is today considered a national hero of Ireland. The horoscope for this moment has 16° 14' Virgo rising, with 1st lord Mercury conjunct 2nd lord Venus in the 3rd house of communication. This aspect is fitting given the Irish being known for their "gift of gab". While most of the planets are well placed, there are several notable afflictions in the chart: a) 6th lord Saturn is conjunct MEP of 1st house, from where it aspects the 1st lord Mercury in the 3rd house. Also, 11th lord Moon is badly placed in the 6th house. These placements suggest a fixity or inflexibility of position resulting in controversy and conflict. b) FM Rahu is conjunct 8th lord Mars in the 1st house. This is quite a difficult aspect, and indeed the history of Ireland has been rife with violence, albeit located in Northern Ireland, but with support from nationalist forces in Ireland. The Irish also have a reputation for an indulgence in alcohol. c) 4th lord Jupiter is just within the MEP of the 1st house but is conjunct Rahu and Mars. d) 12th lord Sun is conjunct the MEP of the 3rd house. Ireland has been in its best major period, that of Venus, since 1999. This has been a period of great rise in income. However, it has been running the sub-period of Rahu since January 2007. The major financial crisis that broke out last autumn was difficult for Ireland, with transit Rahu at 23° Capricorn hitting the natal affliction of Rahu and Mars in the 1st house. Indeed, it was the luck of the Irish to not have their banking system collapse at that time. The nodal station of Ketu in Cancer in the summer will afflict natal Venus at 5° 03' Scorpio/H3 suggesting some tension related to issues of wealth, status and relations with neighbors. The Venus-Jupiter period from January 2010 and Venus-Mercury period from November 2015 would likely be quite good, especially the latter period, albeit neither planet is free from blemish. Best wishes, Thor Ireland AngloIrish Trty Dec 6, 1921 2:20 AM +00:00 GMT Dublin, Ireland Longitude: 6W15 Latitude: 53N20 Lahiri Ayanamsha: 22:45 Current Period: VE/RA/VE Planet Deg Sign Speed SA Nakshatra Lord ================================================ Asc 16:14 Vir Hasta Mo Sun 20:40 Sco +01:00:56 FM Jyeshtha Me Moon 04:54 Aqu +11:49:37 WK Dhanishtha Ma Mars 25:07 Vir +00:36:02 FM Chitra Ma Merc 08:53 Sco +01:32:21 CM Anuradha Sa Jupt 21:09 Vir +00:09:16 WK Hasta Mo Ven 05:03 Sco +01:15:20 ST Anuradha Sa Sat 13:17 Vir +00:04:15 FM Hasta Mo Rahu 23:24 Vir -00:02:39 FM Chitra Ma Ketu 23:24 Pis -00:02:39 FM Revati Me True Node 365.25 Day Year - Internet Time: 139 beats Day: Tuesday Sunrise: 8:23 AM Tithi: Shukla Saptami Yoga Pt: 28:54 Sg Yogi:Su AviYogi:Sa Dup Yogi: Ju Dagha Rashis: Can Sag Sytems Approach Analysis ======================== Sun Good Placement, Moon Bad Placement, Debilitated in Navamsha, In Infancy: 2%, Weak Dispositor, Bright, Mars Good Placement, In Old Age: 2%, Weak Dispositor,Conjunct or Aspected by FM: Ra Ke , Mercury Good Placement, Combust 21%, Jupiter Good Placement, Weak Dispositor, Venus Good Placement, Saturn Good Placement, Debilitated in Navamsha, Weak Dispositor, Rahu Good Placement, Weak Dispositor, Conjunct or Aspected by FM: Ma , Ketu Good Placement, Rashi Chart ******************************************************* ** 7 * * 5 ** *8 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * SA 13:17 * * * *VE 05:03 * * AS 16:14 * * * *ME 08:53 * 6 JU 21:09 * 4 * *SU 20:40 * * RA 23:24 * * * * * * MA 25:07 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** * * ** *9 * 3 * ** * * ** *10* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 12 KE 23:24 * 2 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * MO 04:54 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** 11 * * 1 ** ******************************************************* Navamsha ******************************************************* ** 3 * * 1 ** *4 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * SA * * * * * * * * *JU * 2 AS * 12 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** MA * * ** *5 VE * 11 KE * ** RA * * ** *6 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *ME * 8 MO * 10 SU * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** 7 * * 9 ** ******************************************************* Vimshottari Dasha/Buktis ======================== Ma/Su 2.12.1921 Ma/Mo 9.4.1922 Ra/Ra 8.11.1922 Ra/Ju 21.7.1925 Ra/Sa 15.12.1927 Ra/Me 20.10.1930 Ra/Ke 9.5.1933 Ra/Ve 27.5.1934 Ra/Su 27.5.1937 Ra/Mo 21.4.1938 Ra/Ma 21.10.1939 Ju/Ju 7.11.1940 Ju/Sa 26.12.1942 Ju/Me 9.7.1945 Ju/Ke 15.10.1947 Ju/Ve 20.9.1948 Ju/Su 22.5.1951 Ju/Mo 9.3.1952 Ju/Ma 9.7.1953 Ju/Ra 15.6.1954 Sa/Sa 7.11.1956 Sa/Me 11.11.1959 Sa/Ke 21.7.1962 Sa/Ve 30.8.1963 Sa/Su 30.10.1966 Sa/Mo 12.10.1967 Sa/Ma 12.5.1969 Sa/Ra 21.6.1970 Sa/Ju 27.4.1973 Me/Me 8.11.1975 Me/Ke 6.4.1978 Me/Ve 3.4.1979 Me/Su 1.2.1982 Me/Mo 8.12.1982 Me/Ma 9.5.1984 Me/Ra 6.5.1985 Me/Ju 23.11.1987 Me/Sa 28.2.1990 Ke/Ke 7.11.1992 Ke/Ve 5.4.1993 Ke/Su 6.6.1994 Ke/Mo 11.10.1994 Ke/Ma 12.5.1995 Ke/Ra 9.10.1995 Ke/Ju 26.10.1996 Ke/Sa 2.10.1997 Ke/Me 11.11.1998 Ve/Ve 8.11.1999 Ve/Su 10.3.2003 Ve/Mo 9.3.2004 Ve/Ma 8.11.2005 Ve/Ra 8.1.2007 Ve/Ju 7.1.2010 Ve/Sa 7.9.2012 Ve/Me 8.11.2015 Ve/Ke 8.9.2018 Su/Su 8.11.2019 Su/Mo 26.2.2020 Su/Ma 26.8.2020 Su/Ra 1.1.2021 Su/Ju 26.11.2021 Su/Sa 14.9.2022 Su/Me 27.8.2023 Su/Ke 2.7.2024 Su/Ve 7.11.2024 Mo/Mo 8.11.2025 Mo/Ma 8.9.2026 Mo/Ra 9.4.2027 Mo/Ju 8.10.2028 Mo/Sa 7.2.2030 Mo/Me 8.9.2031 Mo/Ke 7.2.2033 Mo/Ve 8.9.2033 Mo/Su 9.5.2035 Chart Notes: SIHA <vkchoudhrySAMVA Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 11:39:26 PMRe: When countries obtained their independence Hello my dear Thor, The signing on December 6, 1921 becomes relevant in this case. Best wishes. - Cosmologer SAMVA Friday, April 24, 2009 9:30 PM Re: When countries obtained their independence Hello my dear , Thank you kindly for the clarification. This insight would presumably have relevance for the case of Ireland where the Anglo-Irish Treaty was ratified for the first time by the Dail (parliament of Ireland). The second ratification at the request of the British for formal jurisprudence reasons, or the entering into force of the agreement, would then likely not be so important. As discussed in an earlier message, the Treaty giving birth to Irish independence came into being in the following stages: a) its signing on December 6, 1921 b) the first ratification on January 7, 1922 c) the formal second ratification on January 14, 1922, or d) the coming into force of the Treaty on December 6, 1922. Best wishes, Thor SIHA <vkchoudhry (AT) gmail (DOT) com>SAMVA Friday, April 24, 2009 3:29:27 PMRe: When countries obtained their independence Hello my dear Thor, When independence is the source of formation, no need to look for any further event. We may follow the independence chart. In case of Norway 7 June 1905 event is right to be followed for Norway chart. Best wishes. - Cosmologer SAMVA Friday, April 24, 2009 6:44 PM Re: When countries obtained their independence Hello my dear , I have one question about the formation of nations. In cases, where independence is the source of the birth of a collective entity, would we be advised to look more closely at the event when 1) a people unilaterally take the matters into their own hands to dissolve national bonds with another collective entity and establish a new collective identity of their own or 2) when the approval of a former ruling nation is obtained? For instance, let us look at the case of NORWAY a) on 7 June 1905 Norway declared the union with Sweden dissolved b) on 26 October 1905, Sweden agreed to the repeal of the union Thanks for any guidance you can give on such a fundamental question. Best wishes, Thor Cosmologer <cosmologer >samva Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:31:25 PM When countries obtained their independence Dear friends, I have come across an interesting database showing when many countries obtained their independence. Independence (most recent) by country http://www.nationma ster.com/ graph/gov_ ind-government- independence This may be helpful information for exploring the possible birth chart of a given country. Best wishes, Thor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 Hello my dear Thor, Best wishes for continued follow up of events for better confidence level in the chart. - Cosmologer SAMVA Saturday, April 25, 2009 5:56 AM Ireland [was: When countries...] Hello my dear , Thank you very much for giving your wise assessment of the most likely moment signalling the birth of this country. Indeed, such moments are almost never the same - with each birth being unique in some sense. This moment also seems to have special significance as I shall narrate both in terms of the history of the event itself and the natal potential seen in the chart. First, let us explain what the treaty was all about. The Anglo-Irish Treaty, officially called the Articles of Agreement for a Treaty Between Great Britain and Ireland, was a treaty between the Government of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland and representatives of the de facto Irish Republic that concluded the Irish War of Independence. It established an autonomous dominion, known as the Irish Free State, within the British Empire and provided Northern Ireland, which had been created by the 1920 Government of Ireland Act, an option to opt out of the Irish Free State, which it exercised. Fortunately, we have (albeit still at this stage unconfirmed information) that the treaty was signed in London at 2:20 am on December 6, 1921 by representatives of the British government and envoys of the Irish Republic who claimed plenipotentiary status. Second, there was tension surrounding the signing and a key representative of Ireland, Michael Collins, noted that by signing the treaty he was actually signing his own death warrant. He turned out to per prescient and was assassinated in an ambush in August 1921 by those independence fighters who wanted a more clean break with Great Britain. Over time Collins proved right about signing the treaty and is today considered a national hero of Ireland. The horoscope for this moment has 16° 14' Virgo rising, with 1st lord Mercury conjunct 2nd lord Venus in the 3rd house of communication. This aspect is fitting given the Irish being known for their "gift of gab". While most of the planets are well placed, there are several notable afflictions in the chart: a) 6th lord Saturn is conjunct MEP of 1st house, from where it aspects the 1st lord Mercury in the 3rd house. Also, 11th lord Moon is badly placed in the 6th house. These placements suggest a fixity or inflexibility of position resulting in controversy and conflict. b) FM Rahu is conjunct 8th lord Mars in the 1st house. This is quite a difficult aspect, and indeed the history of Ireland has been rife with violence, albeit located in Northern Ireland, but with support from nationalist forces in Ireland. The Irish also have a reputation for an indulgence in alcohol. c) 4th lord Jupiter is just within the MEP of the 1st house but is conjunct Rahu and Mars. d) 12th lord Sun is conjunct the MEP of the 3rd house. Ireland has been in its best major period, that of Venus, since 1999. This has been a period of great rise in income. However, it has been running the sub-period of Rahu since January 2007. The major financial crisis that broke out last autumn was difficult for Ireland, with transit Rahu at 23° Capricorn hitting the natal affliction of Rahu and Mars in the 1st house. Indeed, it was the luck of the Irish to not have their banking system collapse at that time. The nodal station of Ketu in Cancer in the summer will afflict natal Venus at 5° 03' Scorpio/H3 suggesting some tension related to issues of wealth, status and relations with neighbors. The Venus-Jupiter period from January 2010 and Venus-Mercury period from November 2015 would likely be quite good, especially the latter period, albeit neither planet is free from blemish. Best wishes, Thor Ireland AngloIrish Trty Dec 6, 1921 2:20 AM +00:00 GMT Dublin, Ireland Longitude: 6W15 Latitude: 53N20 Lahiri Ayanamsha: 22:45 Current Period: VE/RA/VE Planet Deg Sign Speed SA Nakshatra Lord ================================================ Asc 16:14 Vir Hasta Mo Sun 20:40 Sco +01:00:56 FM Jyeshtha Me Moon 04:54 Aqu +11:49:37 WK Dhanishtha Ma Mars 25:07 Vir +00:36:02 FM Chitra Ma Merc 08:53 Sco +01:32:21 CM Anuradha Sa Jupt 21:09 Vir +00:09:16 WK Hasta Mo Ven 05:03 Sco +01:15:20 ST Anuradha Sa Sat 13:17 Vir +00:04:15 FM Hasta Mo Rahu 23:24 Vir -00:02:39 FM Chitra Ma Ketu 23:24 Pis -00:02:39 FM Revati Me True Node 365.25 Day Year - Internet Time: 139 beats Day: Tuesday Sunrise: 8:23 AM Tithi: Shukla Saptami Yoga Pt: 28:54 Sg Yogi:Su AviYogi:Sa Dup Yogi: Ju Dagha Rashis: Can Sag Sytems Approach Analysis ======================== Sun Good Placement, Moon Bad Placement, Debilitated in Navamsha, In Infancy: 2%, Weak Dispositor, Bright, Mars Good Placement, In Old Age: 2%, Weak Dispositor,Conjunct or Aspected by FM: Ra Ke , Mercury Good Placement, Combust 21%, Jupiter Good Placement, Weak Dispositor, Venus Good Placement, Saturn Good Placement, Debilitated in Navamsha, Weak Dispositor, Rahu Good Placement, Weak Dispositor, Conjunct or Aspected by FM: Ma , Ketu Good Placement, Rashi Chart ******************************************************* ** 7 * * 5 ** *8 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * SA 13:17 * * * *VE 05:03 * * AS 16:14 * * * *ME 08:53 * 6 JU 21:09 * 4 * *SU 20:40 * * RA 23:24 * * * * * * MA 25:07 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** * * ** *9 * 3 * ** * * ** *10* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 12 KE 23:24 * 2 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * MO 04:54 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** 11 * * 1 ** ******************************************************* Navamsha ******************************************************* ** 3 * * 1 ** *4 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * SA * * * * * * * * *JU * 2 AS * 12 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** MA * * ** *5 VE * 11 KE * ** RA * * ** *6 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *ME * 8 MO * 10 SU * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** 7 * * 9 ** ******************************************************* Vimshottari Dasha/Buktis ======================== Ma/Su 2.12.1921 Ma/Mo 9.4.1922 Ra/Ra 8.11.1922 Ra/Ju 21.7.1925 Ra/Sa 15.12.1927 Ra/Me 20.10.1930 Ra/Ke 9.5.1933 Ra/Ve 27.5.1934 Ra/Su 27.5.1937 Ra/Mo 21.4.1938 Ra/Ma 21.10.1939 Ju/Ju 7.11.1940 Ju/Sa 26.12.1942 Ju/Me 9.7.1945 Ju/Ke 15.10.1947 Ju/Ve 20.9.1948 Ju/Su 22.5.1951 Ju/Mo 9.3.1952 Ju/Ma 9.7.1953 Ju/Ra 15.6.1954 Sa/Sa 7.11.1956 Sa/Me 11.11.1959 Sa/Ke 21.7.1962 Sa/Ve 30.8.1963 Sa/Su 30.10.1966 Sa/Mo 12.10.1967 Sa/Ma 12.5.1969 Sa/Ra 21.6.1970 Sa/Ju 27.4.1973 Me/Me 8.11.1975 Me/Ke 6.4.1978 Me/Ve 3.4.1979 Me/Su 1.2.1982 Me/Mo 8.12.1982 Me/Ma 9.5.1984 Me/Ra 6.5.1985 Me/Ju 23.11.1987 Me/Sa 28.2.1990 Ke/Ke 7.11.1992 Ke/Ve 5.4.1993 Ke/Su 6.6.1994 Ke/Mo 11.10.1994 Ke/Ma 12.5.1995 Ke/Ra 9.10.1995 Ke/Ju 26.10.1996 Ke/Sa 2.10.1997 Ke/Me 11.11.1998 Ve/Ve 8.11.1999 Ve/Su 10.3.2003 Ve/Mo 9.3.2004 Ve/Ma 8.11.2005 Ve/Ra 8.1.2007 Ve/Ju 7.1.2010 Ve/Sa 7.9.2012 Ve/Me 8.11.2015 Ve/Ke 8.9.2018 Su/Su 8.11.2019 Su/Mo 26.2.2020 Su/Ma 26.8.2020 Su/Ra 1.1.2021 Su/Ju 26.11.2021 Su/Sa 14.9.2022 Su/Me 27.8.2023 Su/Ke 2.7.2024 Su/Ve 7.11.2024 Mo/Mo 8.11.2025 Mo/Ma 8.9.2026 Mo/Ra 9.4.2027 Mo/Ju 8.10.2028 Mo/Sa 7.2.2030 Mo/Me 8.9.2031 Mo/Ke 7.2.2033 Mo/Ve 8.9.2033 Mo/Su 9.5.2035 Chart Notes: SIHA <vkchoudhry >SAMVA Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 11:39:26 PMRe: When countries obtained their independence Hello my dear Thor, The signing on December 6, 1921 becomes relevant in this case. Best wishes. - Cosmologer SAMVA Friday, April 24, 2009 9:30 PM Re: When countries obtained their independence Hello my dear , Thank you kindly for the clarification. This insight would presumably have relevance for the case of Ireland where the Anglo-Irish Treaty was ratified for the first time by the Dail (parliament of Ireland). The second ratification at the request of the British for formal jurisprudence reasons, or the entering into force of the agreement, would then likely not be so important. As discussed in an earlier message, the Treaty giving birth to Irish independence came into being in the following stages: a) its signing on December 6, 1921 b) the first ratification on January 7, 1922 c) the formal second ratification on January 14, 1922, or d) the coming into force of the Treaty on December 6, 1922. Best wishes, Thor SIHA <vkchoudhry (AT) gmail (DOT) com>SAMVA Friday, April 24, 2009 3:29:27 PMRe: When countries obtained their independence Hello my dear Thor, When independence is the source of formation, no need to look for any further event. We may follow the independence chart. In case of Norway 7 June 1905 event is right to be followed for Norway chart. Best wishes. - Cosmologer SAMVA Friday, April 24, 2009 6:44 PM Re: When countries obtained their independence Hello my dear , I have one question about the formation of nations. In cases, where independence is the source of the birth of a collective entity, would we be advised to look more closely at the event when 1) a people unilaterally take the matters into their own hands to dissolve national bonds with another collective entity and establish a new collective identity of their own or 2) when the approval of a former ruling nation is obtained? For instance, let us look at the case of NORWAY a) on 7 June 1905 Norway declared the union with Sweden dissolved b) on 26 October 1905, Sweden agreed to the repeal of the union Thanks for any guidance you can give on such a fundamental question. Best wishes, Thor Cosmologer <cosmologer >samva Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:31:25 PM When countries obtained their independence Dear friends, I have come across an interesting database showing when many countries obtained their independence. Independence (most recent) by country http://www.nationma ster.com/ graph/gov_ ind-government- independence This may be helpful information for exploring the possible birth chart of a given country. Best wishes, Thor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 Hello my dear , Indeed, I think this is a milestone in the work concerning Ireland to have a plausible national horoscope for this country at long last. I find it of special interest that Ireland would thus have the very same rising degree as the UK, 16° Virgo, and with 1st lord Mercury in the 3rd house. The color of Mercury is green and Ireland is known as the emerald isle, given its mild climate and rainswept verdant fauna. Best wishes, Thor SIHA <vkchoudhrySAMVA Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 8:22:03 AMRe: Ireland [was: When countries...] Hello my dear Thor, Best wishes for continued follow up of events for better confidence level in the chart. - Cosmologer SAMVA Saturday, April 25, 2009 5:56 AM Ireland [was: When countries...] Hello my dear , Thank you very much for giving your wise assessment of the most likely moment signalling the birth of this country. Indeed, such moments are almost never the same - with each birth being unique in some sense. This moment also seems to have special significance as I shall narrate both in terms of the history of the event itself and the natal potential seen in the chart. First, let us explain what the treaty was all about. The Anglo-Irish Treaty, officially called the Articles of Agreement for a Treaty Between Great Britain and Ireland, was a treaty between the Government of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland and representatives of the de facto Irish Republic that concluded the Irish War of Independence. It established an autonomous dominion, known as the Irish Free State, within the British Empire and provided Northern Ireland, which had been created by the 1920 Government of Ireland Act, an option to opt out of the Irish Free State, which it exercised. Fortunately, we have (albeit still at this stage unconfirmed information) that the treaty was signed in London at 2:20 am on December 6, 1921 by representatives of the British government and envoys of the Irish Republic who claimed plenipotentiary status. Second, there was tension surrounding the signing and a key representative of Ireland, Michael Collins, noted that by signing the treaty he was actually signing his own death warrant. He turned out to per prescient and was assassinated in an ambush in August 1921 by those independence fighters who wanted a more clean break with Great Britain. Over time Collins proved right about signing the treaty and is today considered a national hero of Ireland. The horoscope for this moment has 16° 14' Virgo rising, with 1st lord Mercury conjunct 2nd lord Venus in the 3rd house of communication. This aspect is fitting given the Irish being known for their "gift of gab". While most of the planets are well placed, there are several notable afflictions in the chart: a) 6th lord Saturn is conjunct MEP of 1st house, from where it aspects the 1st lord Mercury in the 3rd house. Also, 11th lord Moon is badly placed in the 6th house. These placements suggest a fixity or inflexibility of position resulting in controversy and conflict. b) FM Rahu is conjunct 8th lord Mars in the 1st house. This is quite a difficult aspect, and indeed the history of Ireland has been rife with violence, albeit located in Northern Ireland, but with support from nationalist forces in Ireland. The Irish also have a reputation for an indulgence in alcohol. c) 4th lord Jupiter is just within the MEP of the 1st house but is conjunct Rahu and Mars. d) 12th lord Sun is conjunct the MEP of the 3rd house. Ireland has been in its best major period, that of Venus, since 1999. This has been a period of great rise in income. However, it has been running the sub-period of Rahu since January 2007. The major financial crisis that broke out last autumn was difficult for Ireland, with transit Rahu at 23° Capricorn hitting the natal affliction of Rahu and Mars in the 1st house. Indeed, it was the luck of the Irish to not have their banking system collapse at that time. The nodal station of Ketu in Cancer in the summer will afflict natal Venus at 5° 03' Scorpio/H3 suggesting some tension related to issues of wealth, status and relations with neighbors. The Venus-Jupiter period from January 2010 and Venus-Mercury period from November 2015 would likely be quite good, especially the latter period, albeit neither planet is free from blemish. Best wishes, Thor Ireland AngloIrish Trty Dec 6, 1921 2:20 AM +00:00 GMT Dublin , Ireland Longitude: 6W15 Latitude: 53N20 Lahiri Ayanamsha: 22:45 Current Period: VE/RA/VE Planet Deg Sign Speed SA Nakshatra Lord ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= Asc 16:14 Vir Hasta Mo Sun 20:40 Sco +01:00:56 FM Jyeshtha Me Moon 04:54 Aqu +11:49:37 WK Dhanishtha Ma Mars 25:07 Vir +00:36:02 FM Chitra Ma Merc 08:53 Sco +01:32:21 CM Anuradha Sa Jupt 21:09 Vir +00:09:16 WK Hasta Mo Ven 05:03 Sco +01:15:20 ST Anuradha Sa Sat 13:17 Vir +00:04:15 FM Hasta Mo Rahu 23:24 Vir -00:02:39 FM Chitra Ma Ketu 23:24 Pis -00:02:39 FM Revati Me True Node 365.25 Day Year - Internet Time: 139 beats Day: Tuesday Sunrise : 8:23 AM Tithi: Shukla Saptami Yoga Pt: 28:54 Sg Yogi:Su AviYogi:Sa Dup Yogi: Ju Dagha Rashis: Can Sag Sytems Approach Analysis ============ ========= === Sun Good Placement, Moon Bad Placement, Debilitated in Navamsha, In Infancy: 2%, Weak Dispositor, Bright, Mars Good Placement, In Old Age: 2%, Weak Dispositor,Conjunct or Aspected by FM: Ra Ke , Mercury Good Placement, Combust 21%, Jupiter Good Placement, Weak Dispositor, Venus Good Placement, Saturn Good Placement, Debilitated in Navamsha, Weak Dispositor, Rahu Good Placement, Weak Dispositor, Conjunct or Aspected by FM: Ma , Ketu Good Placement, Rashi Chart ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* ******* ** 7 * * 5 ** *8 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * SA 13:17 * * * *VE 05:03 * * AS 16:14 * * * *ME 08:53 * 6 JU 21:09 * 4 * *SU 20:40 * * RA 23:24 * * * * * * MA 25:07 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** * * ** *9 * 3 * ** * * ** *10* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 12 KE 23:24 * 2 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * MO 04:54 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** 11 * * 1 ** ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* ******* Navamsha ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* ******* ** 3 * * 1 ** *4 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * SA * * * * * * * * *JU * 2 AS * 12 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** MA * * ** *5 VE * 11 KE * ** RA * * ** *6 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *ME * 8 MO * 10 SU * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** 7 * * 9 ** ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* ******* Vimshottari Dasha/Buktis ============ ========= === Ma/Su 2.12.1921 Ma/Mo 9.4.1922 Ra/Ra 8.11.1922 Ra/Ju 21.7.1925 Ra/Sa 15.12.1927 Ra/Me 20.10.1930 Ra/Ke 9.5.1933 Ra/Ve 27.5.1934 Ra/Su 27.5.1937 Ra/Mo 21.4.1938 Ra/Ma 21.10.1939 Ju/Ju 7.11.1940 Ju/Sa 26.12.1942 Ju/Me 9.7.1945 Ju/Ke 15.10.1947 Ju/Ve 20.9.1948 Ju/Su 22.5.1951 Ju/Mo 9.3.1952 Ju/Ma 9.7.1953 Ju/Ra 15.6.1954 Sa/Sa 7.11.1956 Sa/Me 11.11.1959 Sa/Ke 21.7.1962 Sa/Ve 30.8.1963 Sa/Su 30.10.1966 Sa/Mo 12.10.1967 Sa/Ma 12.5.1969 Sa/Ra 21.6.1970 Sa/Ju 27.4.1973 Me/Me 8.11.1975 Me/Ke 6.4.1978 Me/Ve 3.4.1979 Me/Su 1.2.1982 Me/Mo 8.12.1982 Me/Ma 9.5.1984 Me/Ra 6.5.1985 Me/Ju 23.11.1987 Me/Sa 28.2.1990 Ke/Ke 7.11.1992 Ke/Ve 5.4.1993 Ke/Su 6.6.1994 Ke/Mo 11.10.1994 Ke/Ma 12.5.1995 Ke/Ra 9.10.1995 Ke/Ju 26.10.1996 Ke/Sa 2.10.1997 Ke/Me 11.11.1998 Ve/Ve 8.11.1999 Ve/Su 10.3.2003 Ve/Mo 9.3.2004 Ve/Ma 8.11.2005 Ve/Ra 8.1.2007 Ve/Ju 7.1.2010 Ve/Sa 7.9.2012 Ve/Me 8.11.2015 Ve/Ke 8.9.2018 Su/Su 8.11.2019 Su/Mo 26.2.2020 Su/Ma 26.8.2020 Su/Ra 1.1.2021 Su/Ju 26.11.2021 Su/Sa 14.9.2022 Su/Me 27.8.2023 Su/Ke 2.7.2024 Su/Ve 7.11.2024 Mo/Mo 8.11.2025 Mo/Ma 8.9.2026 Mo/Ra 9.4.2027 Mo/Ju 8.10.2028 Mo/Sa 7.2.2030 Mo/Me 8.9.2031 Mo/Ke 7.2.2033 Mo/Ve 8.9.2033 Mo/Su 9.5.2035 Chart Notes: SIHA <vkchoudhry (AT) gmail (DOT) com>SAMVA Friday, April 24, 2009 11:39:26 PMRe: When countries obtained their independence Hello my dear Thor, The signing on December 6, 1921 becomes relevant in this case. Best wishes. - Cosmologer SAMVA Friday, April 24, 2009 9:30 PM Re: When countries obtained their independence Hello my dear , Thank you kindly for the clarification. This insight would presumably have relevance for the case of Ireland where the Anglo-Irish Treaty was ratified for the first time by the Dail (parliament of Ireland). The second ratification at the request of the British for formal jurisprudence reasons, or the entering into force of the agreement, would then likely not be so important. As discussed in an earlier message, the Treaty giving birth to Irish independence came into being in the following stages: a) its signing on December 6, 1921 b) the first ratification on January 7, 1922 c) the formal second ratification on January 14, 1922, or d) the coming into force of the Treaty on December 6, 1922. Best wishes, Thor SIHA <vkchoudhry (AT) gmail (DOT) com>SAMVA Friday, April 24, 2009 3:29:27 PMRe: When countries obtained their independence Hello my dear Thor, When independence is the source of formation, no need to look for any further event. We may follow the independence chart. In case of Norway 7 June 1905 event is right to be followed for Norway chart. Best wishes. - Cosmologer SAMVA Friday, April 24, 2009 6:44 PM Re: When countries obtained their independence Hello my dear , I have one question about the formation of nations. In cases, where independence is the source of the birth of a collective entity, would we be advised to look more closely at the event when 1) a people unilaterally take the matters into their own hands to dissolve national bonds with another collective entity and establish a new collective identity of their own or 2) when the approval of a former ruling nation is obtained? For instance, let us look at the case of NORWAY a) on 7 June 1905 Norway declared the union with Sweden dissolved b) on 26 October 1905, Sweden agreed to the repeal of the union Thanks for any guidance you can give on such a fundamental question. Best wishes, Thor Cosmologer <cosmologer >samva Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:31:25 PM When countries obtained their independence Dear friends, I have come across an interesting database showing when many countries obtained their independence. Independence (most recent) by country http://www.nationma ster.com/ graph/gov_ ind-government- independence This may be helpful information for exploring the possible birth chart of a given country. Best wishes, Thor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 PS another British creation, Australia, has 15° Virgo rising, according to the horoscope when the six colonies became a federation, and the Commonwealth of Australia was formed at midnight on 1 January 1901 in Melbourne. Cosmologer <cosmologerSAMVA Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 10:48:15 AMRe: Ireland [was: When countries...] Hello my dear , Indeed, I think this is a milestone in the work concerning Ireland to have a plausible national horoscope for this country at long last. I find it of special interest that Ireland would thus have the very same rising degree as the UK, 16° Virgo, and with 1st lord Mercury in the 3rd house. The color of Mercury is green and Ireland is known as the emerald isle, given its mild climate and rainswept verdant fauna. Best wishes, Thor SIHA <vkchoudhrySAMVA Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 8:22:03 AMRe: Ireland [was: When countries...] Hello my dear Thor, Best wishes for continued follow up of events for better confidence level in the chart. - Cosmologer SAMVA Saturday, April 25, 2009 5:56 AM Ireland [was: When countries...] Hello my dear , Thank you very much for giving your wise assessment of the most likely moment signalling the birth of this country. Indeed, such moments are almost never the same - with each birth being unique in some sense. This moment also seems to have special significance as I shall narrate both in terms of the history of the event itself and the natal potential seen in the chart. First, let us explain what the treaty was all about. The Anglo-Irish Treaty, officially called the Articles of Agreement for a Treaty Between Great Britain and Ireland, was a treaty between the Government of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland and representatives of the de facto Irish Republic that concluded the Irish War of Independence. It established an autonomous dominion, known as the Irish Free State, within the British Empire and provided Northern Ireland, which had been created by the 1920 Government of Ireland Act, an option to opt out of the Irish Free State, which it exercised. Fortunately, we have (albeit still at this stage unconfirmed information) that the treaty was signed in London at 2:20 am on December 6, 1921 by representatives of the British government and envoys of the Irish Republic who claimed plenipotentiary status. Second, there was tension surrounding the signing and a key representative of Ireland, Michael Collins, noted that by signing the treaty he was actually signing his own death warrant. He turned out to per prescient and was assassinated in an ambush in August 1921 by those independence fighters who wanted a more clean break with Great Britain. Over time Collins proved right about signing the treaty and is today considered a national hero of Ireland. The horoscope for this moment has 16° 14' Virgo rising, with 1st lord Mercury conjunct 2nd lord Venus in the 3rd house of communication. This aspect is fitting given the Irish being known for their "gift of gab". While most of the planets are well placed, there are several notable afflictions in the chart: a) 6th lord Saturn is conjunct MEP of 1st house, from where it aspects the 1st lord Mercury in the 3rd house. Also, 11th lord Moon is badly placed in the 6th house. These placements suggest a fixity or inflexibility of position resulting in controversy and conflict. b) FM Rahu is conjunct 8th lord Mars in the 1st house. This is quite a difficult aspect, and indeed the history of Ireland has been rife with violence, albeit located in Northern Ireland, but with support from nationalist forces in Ireland. The Irish also have a reputation for an indulgence in alcohol. c) 4th lord Jupiter is just within the MEP of the 1st house but is conjunct Rahu and Mars. d) 12th lord Sun is conjunct the MEP of the 3rd house. Ireland has been in its best major period, that of Venus, since 1999. This has been a period of great rise in income. However, it has been running the sub-period of Rahu since January 2007. The major financial crisis that broke out last autumn was difficult for Ireland, with transit Rahu at 23° Capricorn hitting the natal affliction of Rahu and Mars in the 1st house. Indeed, it was the luck of the Irish to not have their banking system collapse at that time. The nodal station of Ketu in Cancer in the summer will afflict natal Venus at 5° 03' Scorpio/H3 suggesting some tension related to issues of wealth, status and relations with neighbors. The Venus-Jupiter period from January 2010 and Venus-Mercury period from November 2015 would likely be quite good, especially the latter period, albeit neither planet is free from blemish. Best wishes, Thor Ireland AngloIrish Trty Dec 6, 1921 2:20 AM +00:00 GMT Dublin , Ireland Longitude: 6W15 Latitude: 53N20 Lahiri Ayanamsha: 22:45 Current Period: VE/RA/VE Planet Deg Sign Speed SA Nakshatra Lord ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= Asc 16:14 Vir Hasta Mo Sun 20:40 Sco +01:00:56 FM Jyeshtha Me Moon 04:54 Aqu +11:49:37 WK Dhanishtha Ma Mars 25:07 Vir +00:36:02 FM Chitra Ma Merc 08:53 Sco +01:32:21 CM Anuradha Sa Jupt 21:09 Vir +00:09:16 WK Hasta Mo Ven 05:03 Sco +01:15:20 ST Anuradha Sa Sat 13:17 Vir +00:04:15 FM Hasta Mo Rahu 23:24 Vir -00:02:39 FM Chitra Ma Ketu 23:24 Pis -00:02:39 FM Revati Me True Node 365.25 Day Year - Internet Time: 139 beats Day: Tuesday Sunrise : 8:23 AM Tithi: Shukla Saptami Yoga Pt: 28:54 Sg Yogi:Su AviYogi:Sa Dup Yogi: Ju Dagha Rashis: Can Sag Sytems Approach Analysis ============ ========= === Sun Good Placement, Moon Bad Placement, Debilitated in Navamsha, In Infancy: 2%, Weak Dispositor, Bright, Mars Good Placement, In Old Age: 2%, Weak Dispositor,Conjunct or Aspected by FM: Ra Ke , Mercury Good Placement, Combust 21%, Jupiter Good Placement, Weak Dispositor, Venus Good Placement, Saturn Good Placement, Debilitated in Navamsha, Weak Dispositor, Rahu Good Placement, Weak Dispositor, Conjunct or Aspected by FM: Ma , Ketu Good Placement, Rashi Chart ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* ******* ** 7 * * 5 ** *8 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * SA 13:17 * * * *VE 05:03 * * AS 16:14 * * * *ME 08:53 * 6 JU 21:09 * 4 * *SU 20:40 * * RA 23:24 * * * * * * MA 25:07 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** * * ** *9 * 3 * ** * * ** *10* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 12 KE 23:24 * 2 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * MO 04:54 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** 11 * * 1 ** ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* ******* Navamsha ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* ******* ** 3 * * 1 ** *4 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * SA * * * * * * * * *JU * 2 AS * 12 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** MA * * ** *5 VE * 11 KE * ** RA * * ** *6 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *ME * 8 MO * 10 SU * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** 7 * * 9 ** ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* ******* Vimshottari Dasha/Buktis ============ ========= === Ma/Su 2.12.1921 Ma/Mo 9.4.1922 Ra/Ra 8.11.1922 Ra/Ju 21.7.1925 Ra/Sa 15.12.1927 Ra/Me 20.10.1930 Ra/Ke 9.5.1933 Ra/Ve 27.5.1934 Ra/Su 27.5.1937 Ra/Mo 21.4.1938 Ra/Ma 21.10.1939 Ju/Ju 7.11.1940 Ju/Sa 26.12.1942 Ju/Me 9.7.1945 Ju/Ke 15.10.1947 Ju/Ve 20.9.1948 Ju/Su 22.5.1951 Ju/Mo 9.3.1952 Ju/Ma 9.7.1953 Ju/Ra 15.6.1954 Sa/Sa 7.11.1956 Sa/Me 11.11.1959 Sa/Ke 21.7.1962 Sa/Ve 30.8.1963 Sa/Su 30.10.1966 Sa/Mo 12.10.1967 Sa/Ma 12.5.1969 Sa/Ra 21.6.1970 Sa/Ju 27.4.1973 Me/Me 8.11.1975 Me/Ke 6.4.1978 Me/Ve 3.4.1979 Me/Su 1.2.1982 Me/Mo 8.12.1982 Me/Ma 9.5.1984 Me/Ra 6.5.1985 Me/Ju 23.11.1987 Me/Sa 28.2.1990 Ke/Ke 7.11.1992 Ke/Ve 5.4.1993 Ke/Su 6.6.1994 Ke/Mo 11.10.1994 Ke/Ma 12.5.1995 Ke/Ra 9.10.1995 Ke/Ju 26.10.1996 Ke/Sa 2.10.1997 Ke/Me 11.11.1998 Ve/Ve 8.11.1999 Ve/Su 10.3.2003 Ve/Mo 9.3.2004 Ve/Ma 8.11.2005 Ve/Ra 8.1.2007 Ve/Ju 7.1.2010 Ve/Sa 7.9.2012 Ve/Me 8.11.2015 Ve/Ke 8.9.2018 Su/Su 8.11.2019 Su/Mo 26.2.2020 Su/Ma 26.8.2020 Su/Ra 1.1.2021 Su/Ju 26.11.2021 Su/Sa 14.9.2022 Su/Me 27.8.2023 Su/Ke 2.7.2024 Su/Ve 7.11.2024 Mo/Mo 8.11.2025 Mo/Ma 8.9.2026 Mo/Ra 9.4.2027 Mo/Ju 8.10.2028 Mo/Sa 7.2.2030 Mo/Me 8.9.2031 Mo/Ke 7.2.2033 Mo/Ve 8.9.2033 Mo/Su 9.5.2035 Chart Notes: SIHA <vkchoudhry (AT) gmail (DOT) com>SAMVA Friday, April 24, 2009 11:39:26 PMRe: When countries obtained their independence Hello my dear Thor, The signing on December 6, 1921 becomes relevant in this case. Best wishes. - Cosmologer SAMVA Friday, April 24, 2009 9:30 PM Re: When countries obtained their independence Hello my dear , Thank you kindly for the clarification. This insight would presumably have relevance for the case of Ireland where the Anglo-Irish Treaty was ratified for the first time by the Dail (parliament of Ireland). The second ratification at the request of the British for formal jurisprudence reasons, or the entering into force of the agreement, would then likely not be so important. As discussed in an earlier message, the Treaty giving birth to Irish independence came into being in the following stages: a) its signing on December 6, 1921 b) the first ratification on January 7, 1922 c) the formal second ratification on January 14, 1922, or d) the coming into force of the Treaty on December 6, 1922. Best wishes, Thor SIHA <vkchoudhry (AT) gmail (DOT) com>SAMVA Friday, April 24, 2009 3:29:27 PMRe: When countries obtained their independence Hello my dear Thor, When independence is the source of formation, no need to look for any further event. We may follow the independence chart. In case of Norway 7 June 1905 event is right to be followed for Norway chart. Best wishes. - Cosmologer SAMVA Friday, April 24, 2009 6:44 PM Re: When countries obtained their independence Hello my dear , I have one question about the formation of nations. In cases, where independence is the source of the birth of a collective entity, would we be advised to look more closely at the event when 1) a people unilaterally take the matters into their own hands to dissolve national bonds with another collective entity and establish a new collective identity of their own or 2) when the approval of a former ruling nation is obtained? For instance, let us look at the case of NORWAY a) on 7 June 1905 Norway declared the union with Sweden dissolved b) on 26 October 1905, Sweden agreed to the repeal of the union Thanks for any guidance you can give on such a fundamental question. Best wishes, Thor Cosmologer <cosmologer >samva Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:31:25 PM When countries obtained their independence Dear friends, I have come across an interesting database showing when many countries obtained their independence. Independence (most recent) by country http://www.nationma ster.com/ graph/gov_ ind-government- independence This may be helpful information for exploring the possible birth chart of a given country. Best wishes, Thor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 Hello my dear Thor, Interesting coincidence. Specially that of emerald isle with Mercury. Best wishes. - Cosmologer SAMVA Saturday, April 25, 2009 4:22 PM Re: Ireland [was: When countries...] PS another British creation, Australia, has 15° Virgo rising, according to the horoscope when the six colonies became a federation, and the Commonwealth of Australia was formed at midnight on 1 January 1901 in Melbourne. Cosmologer <cosmologer >SAMVA Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 10:48:15 AMRe: Ireland [was: When countries...] Hello my dear , Indeed, I think this is a milestone in the work concerning Ireland to have a plausible national horoscope for this country at long last. I find it of special interest that Ireland would thus have the very same rising degree as the UK, 16° Virgo, and with 1st lord Mercury in the 3rd house. The color of Mercury is green and Ireland is known as the emerald isle, given its mild climate and rainswept verdant fauna. Best wishes, Thor SIHA <vkchoudhry >SAMVA Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 8:22:03 AMRe: Ireland [was: When countries...] Hello my dear Thor, Best wishes for continued follow up of events for better confidence level in the chart. - Cosmologer SAMVA Saturday, April 25, 2009 5:56 AM Ireland [was: When countries...] Hello my dear , Thank you very much for giving your wise assessment of the most likely moment signalling the birth of this country. Indeed, such moments are almost never the same - with each birth being unique in some sense. This moment also seems to have special significance as I shall narrate both in terms of the history of the event itself and the natal potential seen in the chart. First, let us explain what the treaty was all about. The Anglo-Irish Treaty, officially called the Articles of Agreement for a Treaty Between Great Britain and Ireland, was a treaty between the Government of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland and representatives of the de facto Irish Republic that concluded the Irish War of Independence. It established an autonomous dominion, known as the Irish Free State, within the British Empire and provided Northern Ireland, which had been created by the 1920 Government of Ireland Act, an option to opt out of the Irish Free State, which it exercised. Fortunately, we have (albeit still at this stage unconfirmed information) that the treaty was signed in London at 2:20 am on December 6, 1921 by representatives of the British government and envoys of the Irish Republic who claimed plenipotentiary status. Second, there was tension surrounding the signing and a key representative of Ireland, Michael Collins, noted that by signing the treaty he was actually signing his own death warrant. He turned out to per prescient and was assassinated in an ambush in August 1921 by those independence fighters who wanted a more clean break with Great Britain. Over time Collins proved right about signing the treaty and is today considered a national hero of Ireland. The horoscope for this moment has 16° 14' Virgo rising, with 1st lord Mercury conjunct 2nd lord Venus in the 3rd house of communication. This aspect is fitting given the Irish being known for their "gift of gab". While most of the planets are well placed, there are several notable afflictions in the chart: a) 6th lord Saturn is conjunct MEP of 1st house, from where it aspects the 1st lord Mercury in the 3rd house. Also, 11th lord Moon is badly placed in the 6th house. These placements suggest a fixity or inflexibility of position resulting in controversy and conflict. b) FM Rahu is conjunct 8th lord Mars in the 1st house. This is quite a difficult aspect, and indeed the history of Ireland has been rife with violence, albeit located in Northern Ireland, but with support from nationalist forces in Ireland. The Irish also have a reputation for an indulgence in alcohol. c) 4th lord Jupiter is just within the MEP of the 1st house but is conjunct Rahu and Mars. d) 12th lord Sun is conjunct the MEP of the 3rd house. Ireland has been in its best major period, that of Venus, since 1999. This has been a period of great rise in income. However, it has been running the sub-period of Rahu since January 2007. The major financial crisis that broke out last autumn was difficult for Ireland, with transit Rahu at 23° Capricorn hitting the natal affliction of Rahu and Mars in the 1st house. Indeed, it was the luck of the Irish to not have their banking system collapse at that time. The nodal station of Ketu in Cancer in the summer will afflict natal Venus at 5° 03' Scorpio/H3 suggesting some tension related to issues of wealth, status and relations with neighbors. The Venus-Jupiter period from January 2010 and Venus-Mercury period from November 2015 would likely be quite good, especially the latter period, albeit neither planet is free from blemish. Best wishes, Thor Ireland AngloIrish Trty Dec 6, 1921 2:20 AM +00:00 GMT Dublin , Ireland Longitude: 6W15 Latitude: 53N20 Lahiri Ayanamsha: 22:45 Current Period: VE/RA/VE Planet Deg Sign Speed SA Nakshatra Lord ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= Asc 16:14 Vir Hasta Mo Sun 20:40 Sco +01:00:56 FM Jyeshtha Me Moon 04:54 Aqu +11:49:37 WK Dhanishtha Ma Mars 25:07 Vir +00:36:02 FM Chitra Ma Merc 08:53 Sco +01:32:21 CM Anuradha Sa Jupt 21:09 Vir +00:09:16 WK Hasta Mo Ven 05:03 Sco +01:15:20 ST Anuradha Sa Sat 13:17 Vir +00:04:15 FM Hasta Mo Rahu 23:24 Vir -00:02:39 FM Chitra Ma Ketu 23:24 Pis -00:02:39 FM Revati Me True Node 365.25 Day Year - Internet Time: 139 beats Day: Tuesday Sunrise : 8:23 AM Tithi: Shukla Saptami Yoga Pt: 28:54 Sg Yogi:Su AviYogi:Sa Dup Yogi: Ju Dagha Rashis: Can Sag Sytems Approach Analysis ============ ========= === Sun Good Placement, Moon Bad Placement, Debilitated in Navamsha, In Infancy: 2%, Weak Dispositor, Bright, Mars Good Placement, In Old Age: 2%, Weak Dispositor,Conjunct or Aspected by FM: Ra Ke , Mercury Good Placement, Combust 21%, Jupiter Good Placement, Weak Dispositor, Venus Good Placement, Saturn Good Placement, Debilitated in Navamsha, Weak Dispositor, Rahu Good Placement, Weak Dispositor, Conjunct or Aspected by FM: Ma , Ketu Good Placement, Rashi Chart ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* ******* ** 7 * * 5 ** *8 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * SA 13:17 * * * *VE 05:03 * * AS 16:14 * * * *ME 08:53 * 6 JU 21:09 * 4 * *SU 20:40 * * RA 23:24 * * * * * * MA 25:07 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** * * ** *9 * 3 * ** * * ** *10* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 12 KE 23:24 * 2 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * MO 04:54 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** 11 * * 1 ** ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* ******* Navamsha ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* ******* ** 3 * * 1 ** *4 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * SA * * * * * * * * *JU * 2 AS * 12 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** MA * * ** *5 VE * 11 KE * ** RA * * ** *6 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *ME * 8 MO * 10 SU * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** 7 * * 9 ** ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* ******* Vimshottari Dasha/Buktis ============ ========= === Ma/Su 2.12.1921 Ma/Mo 9.4.1922 Ra/Ra 8.11.1922 Ra/Ju 21.7.1925 Ra/Sa 15.12.1927 Ra/Me 20.10.1930 Ra/Ke 9.5.1933 Ra/Ve 27.5.1934 Ra/Su 27.5.1937 Ra/Mo 21.4.1938 Ra/Ma 21.10.1939 Ju/Ju 7.11.1940 Ju/Sa 26.12.1942 Ju/Me 9.7.1945 Ju/Ke 15.10.1947 Ju/Ve 20.9.1948 Ju/Su 22.5.1951 Ju/Mo 9.3.1952 Ju/Ma 9.7.1953 Ju/Ra 15.6.1954 Sa/Sa 7.11.1956 Sa/Me 11.11.1959 Sa/Ke 21.7.1962 Sa/Ve 30.8.1963 Sa/Su 30.10.1966 Sa/Mo 12.10.1967 Sa/Ma 12.5.1969 Sa/Ra 21.6.1970 Sa/Ju 27.4.1973 Me/Me 8.11.1975 Me/Ke 6.4.1978 Me/Ve 3.4.1979 Me/Su 1.2.1982 Me/Mo 8.12.1982 Me/Ma 9.5.1984 Me/Ra 6.5.1985 Me/Ju 23.11.1987 Me/Sa 28.2.1990 Ke/Ke 7.11.1992 Ke/Ve 5.4.1993 Ke/Su 6.6.1994 Ke/Mo 11.10.1994 Ke/Ma 12.5.1995 Ke/Ra 9.10.1995 Ke/Ju 26.10.1996 Ke/Sa 2.10.1997 Ke/Me 11.11.1998 Ve/Ve 8.11.1999 Ve/Su 10.3.2003 Ve/Mo 9.3.2004 Ve/Ma 8.11.2005 Ve/Ra 8.1.2007 Ve/Ju 7.1.2010 Ve/Sa 7.9.2012 Ve/Me 8.11.2015 Ve/Ke 8.9.2018 Su/Su 8.11.2019 Su/Mo 26.2.2020 Su/Ma 26.8.2020 Su/Ra 1.1.2021 Su/Ju 26.11.2021 Su/Sa 14.9.2022 Su/Me 27.8.2023 Su/Ke 2.7.2024 Su/Ve 7.11.2024 Mo/Mo 8.11.2025 Mo/Ma 8.9.2026 Mo/Ra 9.4.2027 Mo/Ju 8.10.2028 Mo/Sa 7.2.2030 Mo/Me 8.9.2031 Mo/Ke 7.2.2033 Mo/Ve 8.9.2033 Mo/Su 9.5.2035 Chart Notes: SIHA <vkchoudhry (AT) gmail (DOT) com>SAMVA Friday, April 24, 2009 11:39:26 PMRe: When countries obtained their independence Hello my dear Thor, The signing on December 6, 1921 becomes relevant in this case. Best wishes. - Cosmologer SAMVA Friday, April 24, 2009 9:30 PM Re: When countries obtained their independence Hello my dear , Thank you kindly for the clarification. This insight would presumably have relevance for the case of Ireland where the Anglo-Irish Treaty was ratified for the first time by the Dail (parliament of Ireland). The second ratification at the request of the British for formal jurisprudence reasons, or the entering into force of the agreement, would then likely not be so important. As discussed in an earlier message, the Treaty giving birth to Irish independence came into being in the following stages: a) its signing on December 6, 1921 b) the first ratification on January 7, 1922 c) the formal second ratification on January 14, 1922, or d) the coming into force of the Treaty on December 6, 1922. Best wishes, Thor SIHA <vkchoudhry (AT) gmail (DOT) com>SAMVA Friday, April 24, 2009 3:29:27 PMRe: When countries obtained their independence Hello my dear Thor, When independence is the source of formation, no need to look for any further event. We may follow the independence chart. In case of Norway 7 June 1905 event is right to be followed for Norway chart. Best wishes. - Cosmologer SAMVA Friday, April 24, 2009 6:44 PM Re: When countries obtained their independence Hello my dear , I have one question about the formation of nations. In cases, where independence is the source of the birth of a collective entity, would we be advised to look more closely at the event when 1) a people unilaterally take the matters into their own hands to dissolve national bonds with another collective entity and establish a new collective identity of their own or 2) when the approval of a former ruling nation is obtained? For instance, let us look at the case of NORWAY a) on 7 June 1905 Norway declared the union with Sweden dissolved b) on 26 October 1905, Sweden agreed to the repeal of the union Thanks for any guidance you can give on such a fundamental question. Best wishes, Thor Cosmologer <cosmologer >samva Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:31:25 PM When countries obtained their independence Dear friends, I have come across an interesting database showing when many countries obtained their independence. Independence (most recent) by country http://www.nationma ster.com/ graph/gov_ ind-government- independence This may be helpful information for exploring the possible birth chart of a given country. Best wishes, Thor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 Hello my dear , Yes, indeed. By the way, the reference of the color should be to the flora (and not fauna) of the country Best wishes, Thor SAMVA , " SIHA " <vkchoudhry wrote: > > Hello my dear Thor, > > Interesting coincidence. Specially that of emerald isle with Mercury. > > Best wishes. > > > > > - > Cosmologer > SAMVA > Saturday, April 25, 2009 4:22 PM > Re: Ireland [was: When countries...] PS another British creation, Australia, has 15° Virgo rising, according to the horoscope when the six colonies became a federation, and the Commonwealth of Australia was formed at midnight on 1 January 1901 in Melbourne. > > > > > > Cosmologer <cosmologer > SAMVA > Saturday, April 25, 2009 10:48:15 AM > Re: Ireland [was: When countries...] > > > > > Hello my dear , > > Indeed, I think this is a milestone in the work concerning Ireland to have a plausible national horoscope for this country at long last. I find it of special interest that Ireland would thus have the very same rising degree as the UK, 16° Virgo, and with 1st lord Mercury in the 3rd house. The color of Mercury is green and Ireland is known as the emerald isle, given its mild climate and rainswept verdant fauna. > > Best wishes, > > Thor > > > > > > SIHA <vkchoudhry > SAMVA > Saturday, April 25, 2009 8:22:03 AM > Re: Ireland [was: When countries...] > > > > > Hello my dear Thor, > > Best wishes for continued follow up of events for better confidence level in the chart. > > > > > - > Cosmologer > SAMVA > Saturday, April 25, 2009 5:56 AM > Ireland [was: When countries...] > > > > Hello my dear , > > Thank you very much for giving your wise assessment of the most likely moment signalling the birth of this country. Indeed, such moments are almost never the same - with each birth being unique in some sense. This moment also seems to have special significance as I shall narrate both in terms of the history of the event itself and the natal potential seen in the chart. > > First, let us explain what the treaty was all about. The Anglo-Irish Treaty, officially called the Articles of Agreement for a Treaty Between Great Britain and Ireland, was a treaty between the Government of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland and representatives of the de facto Irish Republic that concluded the Irish War of Independence. It established an autonomous dominion, known as the Irish Free State, within the British Empire and provided Northern Ireland, which had been created by the 1920 Government of Ireland Act, an option to opt out of the Irish Free State, which it exercised. Fortunately, we have (albeit still at this stage unconfirmed information) that the treaty was signed in London at 2:20 am on December 6, 1921 by representatives of the British government and envoys of the Irish Republic who claimed plenipotentiary status. Second, there was tension surrounding the signing and a key representative of Ireland, Michael Collins, noted that by signing the treaty he was actually signing his own death warrant. He turned out to per prescient and was assassinated in an ambush in August 1921 by those independence fighters who wanted a more clean break with Great Britain. Over time Collins proved right about signing the treaty and is today considered a national hero of Ireland. > > The horoscope for this moment has 16° 14' Virgo rising, with 1st lord Mercury conjunct 2nd lord Venus in the 3rd house of communication. This aspect is fitting given the Irish being known for their " gift of gab " . While most of the planets are well placed, there are several notable afflictions in the chart: > > a) 6th lord Saturn is conjunct MEP of 1st house, from where it aspects the 1st lord Mercury in the 3rd house. Also, 11th lord Moon is badly placed in the 6th house. These placements suggest a fixity or inflexibility of position resulting in controversy and conflict. > b) FM Rahu is conjunct 8th lord Mars in the 1st house. This is quite a difficult aspect, and indeed the history of Ireland has been rife with violence, albeit located in Northern Ireland, but with support from nationalist forces in Ireland. The Irish also have a reputation for an indulgence in alcohol. > c) 4th lord Jupiter is just within the MEP of the 1st house but is conjunct Rahu and Mars. > d) 12th lord Sun is conjunct the MEP of the 3rd house. > > Ireland has been in its best major period, that of Venus, since 1999. This has been a period of great rise in income. However, it has been running the sub-period of Rahu since January 2007. The major financial crisis that broke out last autumn was difficult for Ireland, with transit Rahu at 23° Capricorn hitting the natal affliction of Rahu and Mars in the 1st house. Indeed, it was the luck of the Irish to not have their banking system collapse at that time. The nodal station of Ketu in Cancer in the summer will afflict natal Venus at 5° 03' Scorpio/H3 suggesting some tension related to issues of wealth, status and relations with neighbors. The Venus-Jupiter period from January 2010 and Venus-Mercury period from November 2015 would likely be quite good, especially the latter period, albeit neither planet is free from blemish. > > Best wishes, > > Thor > > > Ireland AngloIrish Trty > Dec 6, 1921 2:20 AM +00:00 GMT > Dublin , Ireland Longitude: 6W15 Latitude: 53N20 > Lahiri Ayanamsha: 22:45 Current Period: VE/RA/VE > Planet Deg Sign Speed SA Nakshatra Lord > ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= > Asc 16:14 Vir Hasta Mo > Sun 20:40 Sco +01:00:56 FM Jyeshtha Me > Moon 04:54 Aqu +11:49:37 WK Dhanishtha Ma > Mars 25:07 Vir +00:36:02 FM Chitra Ma > Merc 08:53 Sco +01:32:21 CM Anuradha Sa > Jupt 21:09 Vir +00:09:16 WK Hasta Mo > Ven 05:03 Sco +01:15:20 ST Anuradha Sa > Sat 13:17 Vir +00:04:15 FM Hasta Mo > Rahu 23:24 Vir -00:02:39 FM Chitra Ma > Ketu 23:24 Pis -00:02:39 FM Revati Me > > True Node 365.25 Day Year - Internet Time: 139 beats > Day: Tuesday Sunrise : 8:23 AM > Tithi: Shukla Saptami > Yoga Pt: 28:54 Sg Yogi:Su AviYogi:Sa Dup Yogi: Ju > Dagha Rashis: Can Sag > > Sytems Approach Analysis > ============ ========= === > Sun Good Placement, > Moon Bad Placement, Debilitated in Navamsha, In Infancy: 2%, Weak Dispositor, Bright, > Mars Good Placement, In Old Age: 2%, Weak Dispositor,Conjunct or Aspected by FM: Ra Ke , > Mercury Good Placement, Combust 21%, > Jupiter Good Placement, Weak Dispositor, > Venus Good Placement, > Saturn Good Placement, Debilitated in Navamsha, Weak Dispositor, > Rahu Good Placement, Weak Dispositor, Conjunct or Aspected by FM: Ma , > Ketu Good Placement, > > Rashi Chart > ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* ******* > ** 7 * * 5 ** > *8 * * * * * > * * * * * * > > * * * * * * > > * * * SA 13:17 * * * > > *VE 05:03 * * AS 16:14 * * * > > *ME 08:53 * 6 JU 21:09 * 4 * > > *SU 20:40 * * RA 23:24 * * * > > * * * MA 25:07 * * * > > * * * * * * > > * * * * * * > > * * * * * * > > ** * * ** > > *9 * 3 * > > ** * * ** > > *10* * * * * > > * * * * * * > > * * * * * * > > * * * * * * > > * * * * * * > > * * 12 KE 23:24 * 2 * > > * * * * * * > > * * * * * * > > * * MO 04:54 * * * * > > * * * * * * > > * * * * * * > > ** 11 * * 1 ** > > ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* ******* > > > Navamsha > > ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* ******* > > ** 3 * * 1 ** > > *4 * * * * * > > * * * * * * > > * * * * * * > > * * * SA * * > > * * * * * * > > *JU * 2 AS * 12 * > > * * * * * * > > * * * * * * > > * * * * * * > > * * * * * * > > * * * * * * > > ** MA * * ** > > *5 VE * 11 KE * > > ** RA * * ** > > *6 * * * * * > > * * * * * * > > * * * * * * > > * * * * * * > > * * * * * * > > *ME * 8 MO * 10 SU * > > * * * * * * > > * * * * * * > > * * * * * * > > * * * * * * > > * * * * * * > > ** 7 * * 9 ** > > ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* ******* > > > Vimshottari Dasha/Buktis > > ============ ========= === > > Ma/Su 2.12.1921 > > Ma/Mo 9.4.1922 > > Ra/Ra 8.11.1922 > > Ra/Ju 21.7.1925 > > Ra/Sa 15.12.1927 > > Ra/Me 20.10.1930 > > Ra/Ke 9.5.1933 > > Ra/Ve 27.5.1934 > > Ra/Su 27.5.1937 > > Ra/Mo 21.4.1938 > > Ra/Ma 21.10.1939 > > Ju/Ju 7.11.1940 > > Ju/Sa 26.12.1942 > > Ju/Me 9.7.1945 > > Ju/Ke 15.10.1947 > > Ju/Ve 20.9.1948 > > Ju/Su 22.5.1951 > > Ju/Mo 9.3.1952 > > Ju/Ma 9.7.1953 > > Ju/Ra 15.6.1954 > > Sa/Sa 7.11.1956 > > Sa/Me 11.11.1959 > > Sa/Ke 21.7.1962 > > Sa/Ve 30.8.1963 > > Sa/Su 30.10.1966 > > Sa/Mo 12.10.1967 > > Sa/Ma 12.5.1969 > > Sa/Ra 21.6.1970 > > Sa/Ju 27.4.1973 > > Me/Me 8.11.1975 > > Me/Ke 6.4.1978 > > Me/Ve 3.4.1979 > > Me/Su 1.2.1982 > > Me/Mo 8.12.1982 > > Me/Ma 9.5.1984 > > Me/Ra 6.5.1985 > > Me/Ju 23.11.1987 > > Me/Sa 28.2.1990 > > Ke/Ke 7.11.1992 > > Ke/Ve 5.4.1993 > > Ke/Su 6.6.1994 > > Ke/Mo 11.10.1994 > > Ke/Ma 12.5.1995 > > Ke/Ra 9.10.1995 > > Ke/Ju 26.10.1996 > > Ke/Sa 2.10.1997 > > Ke/Me 11.11.1998 > > Ve/Ve 8.11.1999 > > Ve/Su 10.3.2003 > > Ve/Mo 9.3.2004 > > Ve/Ma 8.11.2005 > > Ve/Ra 8.1.2007 > > Ve/Ju 7.1.2010 > > Ve/Sa 7.9.2012 > > Ve/Me 8.11.2015 > > Ve/Ke 8.9.2018 > > Su/Su 8.11.2019 > > Su/Mo 26.2.2020 > > Su/Ma 26.8.2020 > > Su/Ra 1.1.2021 > > Su/Ju 26.11.2021 > > Su/Sa 14.9.2022 > > Su/Me 27.8.2023 > > Su/Ke 2.7.2024 > > Su/Ve 7.11.2024 > > Mo/Mo 8.11.2025 > > Mo/Ma 8.9.2026 > > Mo/Ra 9.4.2027 > > Mo/Ju 8.10.2028 > > Mo/Sa 7.2.2030 > > Mo/Me 8.9.2031 > > Mo/Ke 7.2.2033 > > Mo/Ve 8.9.2033 > > Mo/Su 9.5.2035 > > Chart Notes: > > > > > > > > ---------- > SIHA <vkchoudhry (AT) gmail (DOT) com> > SAMVA > Friday, April 24, 2009 11:39:26 PM > Re: When countries obtained their independence > > > > > > Hello my dear Thor, > > The signing on December 6, 1921 becomes relevant in this case. > > Best wishes. > > > > > - > Cosmologer > SAMVA > Friday, April 24, 2009 9:30 PM > Re: When countries obtained their independence > > > > Hello my dear , > > Thank you kindly for the clarification. > > This insight would presumably have relevance for the case of Ireland where the Anglo-Irish Treaty was ratified for the first time by the Dail (parliament of Ireland). The second ratification at the request of the British for formal jurisprudence reasons, or the entering into force of the agreement, would then likely not be so important. As discussed in an earlier message, the Treaty giving birth to Irish independence came into being in the following stages: > > a) its signing on December 6, 1921 > b) the first ratification on January 7, 1922 > c) the formal second ratification on January 14, 1922, or > d) the coming into force of the Treaty on December 6, 1922. > Best wishes, > > > Thor > > > > -------- > SIHA <vkchoudhry (AT) gmail (DOT) com> > SAMVA > Friday, April 24, 2009 3:29:27 PM > Re: When countries obtained their independence > > > > > > Hello my dear Thor, > > When independence is the source of formation, no need to look for any further event. We may follow the independence chart. > In case of Norway 7 June 1905 event is right to be followed for Norway chart. > > Best wishes. > > > > > - > Cosmologer > SAMVA > Friday, April 24, 2009 6:44 PM > Re: When countries obtained their independence > > > > Hello my dear , > > I have one question about the formation of nations. In cases, where independence is the source of the birth of a collective entity, would we be advised to look more closely at the event when > > 1) a people unilaterally take the matters into their own hands to dissolve national bonds with another collective entity and establish a new collective identity of their own or > 2) when the approval of a former ruling nation is obtained? > > For instance, let us look at the case of NORWAY > > a) on 7 June 1905 Norway declared the union with Sweden dissolved > b) on 26 October 1905, Sweden agreed to the repeal of the union > > Thanks for any guidance you can give on such a fundamental question. > > Best wishes, > > Thor > > > > > ------ > Cosmologer <cosmologer > > samva > Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:31:25 PM > When countries obtained their independence > > > > > Dear friends, > > I have come across an interesting database showing when many countries obtained their independence. > > Independence (most recent) by country > http://www.nationma ster.com/ graph/gov_ ind-government- independence > > This may be helpful information for exploring the possible birth chart of a given country. > > Best wishes, > > Thor > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 Dear Thor: Again my thanks for your posts and great work with the SAMVA website ... please forgive me if this question has come up in the past, but I am wondering if a country is forcibly taken over by another country and required to accept the government of it conquerer, then what would be the SA rules for determining the SAMVA chart of the nation that was defeated? Many thanks for your time and consideration. Best Wishes, Mew SAMVA , Cosmologer <cosmologer wrote: > > Hello my dear , > > Indeed, I think this is a milestone in the work concerning Ireland to have a plausible national horoscope for this country at long last. I find it of special interest that Ireland would thus have the very same rising degree as the UK, 16� Virgo, and with 1st lord Mercury in the 3rd house. The color of Mercury is green and Ireland is�known as the emerald isle, given its mild climate and rainswept�verdant fauna. > > Best wishes, > > Thor > > > > > ________________________________ > SIHA <vkchoudhry > SAMVA > Saturday, April 25, 2009 8:22:03 AM > Re: Ireland [was: When countries...] > > > > > Hello my dear Thor, > > Best wishes for continued follow up of events for better confidence level in the chart. > � > > > � > - > Cosmologer > SAMVA > Saturday, April 25, 2009 5:56 AM > Ireland [was: When countries...] > > Hello my dear , > � > Thank you very much�for giving your wise assessment of the most likely�moment signalling the birth of this country. Indeed,�such moments are almost never the same - with each birth being unique in some sense. This moment also seems to have special significance as I shall narrate both in terms of the history of the�event itself and the natal potential seen in�the chart. > > First, let us explain what the treaty was all about. The Anglo-Irish Treaty, officially called the Articles of Agreement for a Treaty Between Great Britain and Ireland, was a treaty between the Government of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland and representatives of the de facto Irish Republic that concluded the Irish War of Independence. It established an autonomous dominion, known as the Irish Free State, within the British Empire and provided Northern Ireland, which had been created by the 1920 Government of Ireland Act, an option to opt out of the Irish Free State, which it exercised. Fortunately, we have (albeit still at this stage unconfirmed information) that the treaty was signed in London at 2:20 am on December 6, 1921 by representatives of the British government and envoys of the Irish Republic who claimed plenipotentiary status. Second, there was tension surrounding the signing and a key representative of Ireland, Michael Collins, > noted that by signing the treaty he was actually�signing his own death warrant. He turned out to per prescient and was assassinated in an ambush in�August 1921 by those independence fighters who wanted a more clean break with Great Britain. Over time Collins proved right about signing the treaty and�is today considered a national hero of Ireland. > � > The horoscope for this moment has 16� 14' Virgo rising, with�1st lord Mercury conjunct 2nd lord Venus in the 3rd house of communication. This aspect is fitting given the Irish being known for their " gift of gab " . While most of the planets are well placed, there are several notable afflictions in the chart: > � > a) 6th lord Saturn is conjunct MEP of 1st house,�from where it aspects the 1st lord Mercury in the 3rd house. Also, 11th lord Moon is badly placed in the 6th house. These placements�suggest a�fixity or inflexibility of�position resulting in controversy and conflict. > b)�FM Rahu is conjunct 8th lord Mars in the 1st house. This is quite a difficult aspect, and indeed the history of Ireland has been rife with violence, albeit located in Northern Ireland, but with support from nationalist forces in Ireland. The Irish also have a reputation for an�indulgence in alcohol. > c) 4th lord Jupiter is just within the�MEP of the 1st house but is�conjunct Rahu and Mars. > d) 12th lord Sun is conjunct the MEP of the 3rd house. > � > Ireland has been in its best major period, that of Venus, since 1999. This has been a period of great rise in income. However, it has been running the sub-period of Rahu since January 2007.�The major financial crisis that broke out last autumn was�difficult for Ireland, with�transit Rahu at 23� Capricorn hitting the natal affliction of Rahu and Mars in the 1st house. Indeed, it was�the�luck of the Irish to not have their banking system collapse�at that time.�The nodal station of Ketu in Cancer�in the summer will afflict natal Venus at 5� 03' Scorpio/H3 suggesting some tension related to issues of�wealth, status and relations with neighbors. The Venus-Jupiter period from January�2010�and Venus-Mercury period from November 2015 would likely be quite good, especially the latter period, albeit neither planet is free from blemish. > � > Best wishes, > � > Thor > � > � > Ireland AngloIrish Trty > Dec 6, 1921� 2:20 AM +00:00 GMT > Dublin , Ireland Longitude: 6W15 Latitude: 53N20 > Lahiri Ayanamsha: 22:45 Current Period: VE/RA/VE > Planet Deg�� Sign� Speed���� SA�� Nakshatra Lord > ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= > Asc��� 16:14 Vir����������������� Hasta����� Mo > Sun��� 20:40 Sco� +01:00:56� FM�� Jyeshtha�� Me > Moon�� 04:54 Aqu� +11:49:37� WK�� Dhanishtha Ma > Mars�� 25:07 Vir� +00:36:02� FM�� Chitra���� Ma > Merc�� 08:53 Sco� +01:32:21� CM�� Anuradha�� Sa > Jupt�� 21:09 Vir� +00:09:16� WK�� Hasta����� Mo > Ven��� 05:03 Sco� +01:15:20� ST�� Anuradha�� Sa > Sat��� 13:17 Vir� +00:04:15� FM�� Hasta����� Mo > Rahu�� 23:24 Vir� -00:02:39� FM�� Chitra���� Ma > Ketu�� 23:24 Pis� -00:02:39� FM�� Revati���� Me > � > True Node� 365.25 Day Year - Internet Time: 139 beats > Day: Tuesday� Sunrise : 8:23 AM > Tithi:� Shukla Saptami > Yoga Pt: 28:54 Sg� Yogi:Su� AviYogi:Sa� Dup Yogi: Ju > Dagha Rashis: Can Sag > > Sytems Approach Analysis > ============ ========= === > Sun����� Good Placement, > Moon���� Bad Placement, Debilitated in Navamsha, In Infancy: 2%, Weak Dispositor, Bright, > Mars���� Good Placement, In Old Age: 2%, Weak Dispositor,Conjunct or Aspected by FM: Ra Ke , > Mercury� Good Placement, Combust 21%, > Jupiter� Good Placement, Weak Dispositor, > Venus��� Good Placement, > Saturn�� Good Placement, Debilitated in Navamsha, Weak Dispositor, > Rahu���� Good Placement, Weak Dispositor, Conjunct or Aspected by FM: Ma , > Ketu���� Good Placement, > > Rashi Chart > ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* ******* > ** 7�������������������� *�� * 5�������������������� ** > *8 *������������������ *������ *������������������ *� *��� > *��� *�������������� *���������� *�������������� *��� *��� > *����� *���������� *�������������� *���������� *����� *��� > *������� *������ *���� SA 13:17����� *������ *������� *��� > *VE 05:03� *�� *������ AS 16:14������� *�� *��������� *��� > *ME 08:53��� * 6������ JU 21:09��������� * 4��������� *��� > *SU 20:40� *�� *������ RA 23:24 �������*�� *��������� *��� > *������� *������ *���� MA 25:07����� *������ *������� *��� > *����� *���������� *�������������� *���������� *����� *��� > *��� *�������������� *���������� *�������������� *��� *��� > *� *������������������ *������ *����������� �������*� *��� > **���������������������� *�� *���������������������� **��� > *9������������������������ * 3����������������������� *��� > **���������������������� *�� *���������������������� **��� > *10*������������������ *������ *������������������ *� * ��� > *��� *�������������� *���������� *�������������� *��� *��� > *����� *���������� *�������������� *���������� *����� *��� > *������� *������ *������������������ *������ *������� *��� > *��������� *�� *���������������������� *�� *��������� *��� > *����� ������* 12����� KE 23:24��������� * 2��������� *��� > *��������� *�� *���������������������� *�� *��������� *��� > *������� *������ *������������������ *������ *������� *��� > *����� * MO 04:54� *�������������� *���������� *����� *��� > *��� *������������ ��*���������� *�������������� *��� *��� > *� *������������������ *������ *������������������ *� *��� > ** 11������������������� *�� * 1�������������������� **��� > ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* *******��� > Navamsha > ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* *******��� > ** 3�������������������� *�� * 1�������������������� **��� > *4 *������������������ *������ *������������������ *� *��� > *��� *�������������� *���������� *�������������� *��� *��� > *����� *���������� *���������� ����*���������� *����� *��� > *������� *������ *������������������ SA����� *������� *��� > *��������� *�� *���������������������� *�� *��������� *��� > *JU��������� * 2������ AS��������������� * 12�������� *��� > *��������� *�� *���������������������� *�� *��������� *��� > *������� *������ *������������������ *������ *������� *��� > *����� *���������� *�������������� *���������� *����� *��� > *��� *�������������� *���������� *�������������� *��� *��� > *� *������������������ *������ *������������������ *� *��� > **������ MA������������� *�� *���������������������� **��� > *5������ VE��������������� * 11����� KE�������������� *��� > **������ RA������������� *�� *���������������������� **��� > *6 *������������������ *������ *������������������ *� *��� > *��� *�������������� *���������� *�������������� *��� *��� > *����� *���������� *�������������� *���������� *����� *��� > *������� *������ *������������������ *������ *������� *��� > *��������� *�� *���������������������� *�� *��������� *��� > *ME��������� * 8� �����MO��������������� * 10 SU����� *��� > *��������� *�� *���������������������� *�� *��������� *��� > *������� *������ *������������������ *������ *������� *��� > *����� *���������� *�������������� *���������� *����� *��� > *��� *�������������� *������� ���*�������������� *��� *��� > *� *������������������ *������ *������������������ *� *��� > ** 7�������������������� *�� * 9�������������������� **��� > ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* *******��� > Vimshottari Dasha/Buktis > ============ ========= === > Ma/Su 2.12.1921 > Ma/Mo 9.4.1922 > Ra/Ra 8.11.1922 > Ra/Ju 21.7.1925 > Ra/Sa 15.12.1927 > Ra/Me 20.10.1930 > Ra/Ke 9.5.1933 > Ra/Ve 27.5.1934 > Ra/Su 27.5.1937 > Ra/Mo 21.4.1938 > Ra/Ma 21.10.1939 > Ju/Ju 7.11.1940 > Ju/Sa 26.12.1942 > Ju/Me 9.7.1945 > Ju/Ke 15.10.1947 > Ju/Ve 20.9.1948 > Ju/Su 22.5.1951 > Ju/Mo 9.3.1952 > Ju/Ma 9.7.1953 > Ju/Ra 15.6.1954 > Sa/Sa 7.11.1956 > Sa/Me 11.11.1959 > Sa/Ke 21.7.1962 > Sa/Ve 30.8.1963 > Sa/Su 30.10.1966 > Sa/Mo 12.10.1967 > Sa/Ma 12.5.1969 > Sa/Ra 21.6.1970 > Sa/Ju 27.4.1973 > Me/Me 8.11.1975 > Me/Ke 6.4.1978 > Me/Ve 3.4.1979 > Me/Su 1.2.1982 > Me/Mo 8.12.1982 > Me/Ma 9.5.1984 > Me/Ra 6.5.1985 > Me/Ju 23.11.1987 > Me/Sa 28.2.1990 > Ke/Ke 7.11.1992 > Ke/Ve 5.4.1993 > Ke/Su 6.6.1994 > Ke/Mo 11.10.1994 > Ke/Ma 12.5.1995 > Ke/Ra 9.10.1995 > Ke/Ju 26.10.1996 > Ke/Sa 2.10.1997 > Ke/Me 11.11.1998 > Ve/Ve 8.11.1999 > Ve/Su 10.3.2003 > Ve/Mo 9.3.2004 > Ve/Ma 8.11.2005 > Ve/Ra 8.1.2007 > Ve/Ju 7.1.2010 > Ve/Sa 7.9.2012 > Ve/Me 8.11.2015 > Ve/Ke 8.9.2018 > Su/Su 8.11.2019 > Su/Mo 26.2.2020 > Su/Ma 26.8.2020 > Su/Ra 1.1.2021 > Su/Ju 26.11.2021 > Su/Sa 14.9.2022 > Su/Me 27.8.2023 > Su/Ke 2.7.2024 > Su/Ve 7.11.2024 > Mo/Mo 8.11.2025 > Mo/Ma 8.9.2026 > Mo/Ra 9.4.2027 > Mo/Ju 8.10.2028 > Mo/Sa 7.2.2030 > Mo/Me 8.9.2031 > Mo/Ke 7.2.2033 > Mo/Ve 8.9.2033 > Mo/Su 9.5.2035 > Chart Notes: > � > � > > > > > ________________________________ > SIHA <vkchoudhry (AT) gmail (DOT) com> > SAMVA > Friday, April 24, 2009 11:39:26 PM > Re: When countries obtained their independence > > > > > � > Hello my dear Thor, > > The signing on December 6, 1921 becomes relevant in this case. > > Best wishes. > � > > > � > - > Cosmologer > SAMVA > Friday, April 24, 2009 9:30 PM > Re: When countries obtained their independence > > Hello my dear , > > Thank you kindly�for the clarification. > > This insight would presumably have relevance for the case of Ireland where the Anglo-Irish Treaty was ratified for the first time by the Dail (parliament of Ireland). The second ratification�at the request of the British for formal jurisprudence reasons, or the�entering into force of the agreement, would then�likely�not be�so important. As discussed in an earlier message, the Treaty giving birth to Irish independence came into being in the following stages: > � > a)�its signing on December 6, 1921 > b)�the first ratification on January 7, 1922 > c)�the�formal second ratification on January 14, 1922, or > d) the coming into force of the Treaty on�December 6, 1922. > Best wishes, > > Thor > > > > ________________________________ > SIHA <vkchoudhry (AT) gmail (DOT) com> > SAMVA > Friday, April 24, 2009 3:29:27 PM > Re: When countries obtained their independence > > > > > � > Hello my dear Thor, > > When independence is the source of formation, no need to look for any further event. We may follow the independence chart.� > In case of Norway 7 June 1905 event is right to be followed for Norway chart. > � > Best wishes. > � > > > � > - > Cosmologer > SAMVA > Friday, April 24, 2009 6:44 PM > Re: When countries obtained their independence > > Hello my dear , > > I have one question about the formation of nations. In cases, where independence is the source of�the birth�of a collective entity, would we be�advised to look more closely at the event�when > > 1)��a people unilaterally take the�matters into their own hands to dissolve national�bonds with another collective entity�and establish a new collective identity of their own or > 2) when the approval of a former ruling nation is obtained? > > For instance, let us look at the case of NORWAY > > a)�on 7 June 1905 Norway declared the union with Sweden dissolved > b) on 26 October 1905, Sweden agreed to the repeal of the union > > Thanks for any guidance you can give on such a fundamental question. > > Best wishes, > > Thor > > > > > ________________________________ > Cosmologer <cosmologer > > samva > Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:31:25 PM > When countries obtained their independence > > > > > Dear friends, > � > I have come across an interesting database showing when many countries obtained their independence. > � > Independence (most recent) by country > http://www.nationma ster.com/ graph/gov_ ind-government- independence > � > This may be helpful information for exploring the possible birth chart of a given�country. > � > Best wishes, > � > Thor > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 Dear Mew, I´m not sure there is a general rule for that. In fact, if there is one insight that is emerging it is that each case is different and needs to be evaluated on its own merits or basis. Best wishes, Thor Mary Ellen Wright <wdmewrightSAMVA Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 2:17:33 PM Re: Ireland [was: When countries...]Dear Thor:Again my thanks for your posts and great work with the SAMVA website ... please forgive me if this question has come up in the past, but I am wondering if a country is forcibly taken over by another country and required to accept the government of it conquerer, then what would be the SA rules for determining the SAMVA chart of the nation that was defeated?Many thanks for your time and consideration.Best Wishes,MewSAMVA , Cosmologer <cosmologer wrote:>> Hello my dear ,> > Indeed, I think this is a milestone in the work concerning Ireland to have a plausible national horoscope for this country at long last. I find it of special interest that Ireland would thus have the very same rising degree as the UK, 16� Virgo, and with 1st lord Mercury in the 3rd house. The color of Mercury is green and Ireland is�known as the emerald isle, given its mild climate and rainswept�verdant fauna.> > Best wishes,> > Thor> > > > > ________________________________> SIHA <vkchoudhry> SAMVA > Saturday, April 25, 2009 8:22:03 AM> Re: Ireland [was: When countries...]> > > > > Hello my dear Thor,> > Best wishes for continued follow up of events for better confidence level in the chart.> �> > > �> - > Cosmologer > SAMVA > Saturday, April 25, 2009 5:56 AM> Ireland [was: When countries...]> > Hello my dear ,> �> Thank you very much�for giving your wise assessment of the most likely�moment signalling the birth of this country. Indeed,�such moments are almost never the same - with each birth being unique in some sense. This moment also seems to have special significance as I shall narrate both in terms of the history of the�event itself and the natal potential seen in�the chart.> > First, let us explain what the treaty was all about. The Anglo-Irish Treaty, officially called the Articles of Agreement for a Treaty Between Great Britain and Ireland, was a treaty between the Government of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland and representatives of the de facto Irish Republic that concluded the Irish War of Independence. It established an autonomous dominion, known as the Irish Free State, within the British Empire and provided Northern Ireland, which had been created by the 1920 Government of Ireland Act, an option to opt out of the Irish Free State, which it exercised. Fortunately, we have (albeit still at this stage unconfirmed information) that the treaty was signed in London at 2:20 am on December 6, 1921 by representatives of the British government and envoys of the Irish Republic who claimed plenipotentiary status. Second, there was tension surrounding the signing and a key representative of Ireland, Michael Collins,> noted that by signing the treaty he was actually�signing his own death warrant. He turned out to per prescient and was assassinated in an ambush in�August 1921 by those independence fighters who wanted a more clean break with Great Britain. Over time Collins proved right about signing the treaty and�is today considered a national hero of Ireland.> �> The horoscope for this moment has 16� 14' Virgo rising, with�1st lord Mercury conjunct 2nd lord Venus in the 3rd house of communication. This aspect is fitting given the Irish being known for their "gift of gab". While most of the planets are well placed, there are several notable afflictions in the chart:> �> a) 6th lord Saturn is conjunct MEP of 1st house,�from where it aspects the 1st lord Mercury in the 3rd house. Also, 11th lord Moon is badly placed in the 6th house. These placements�suggest a�fixity or inflexibility of�position resulting in controversy and conflict.> b)�FM Rahu is conjunct 8th lord Mars in the 1st house. This is quite a difficult aspect, and indeed the history of Ireland has been rife with violence, albeit located in Northern Ireland, but with support from nationalist forces in Ireland. The Irish also have a reputation for an�indulgence in alcohol.> c) 4th lord Jupiter is just within the�MEP of the 1st house but is�conjunct Rahu and Mars.> d) 12th lord Sun is conjunct the MEP of the 3rd house.> �> Ireland has been in its best major period, that of Venus, since 1999. This has been a period of great rise in income. However, it has been running the sub-period of Rahu since January 2007.�The major financial crisis that broke out last autumn was�difficult for Ireland, with�transit Rahu at 23� Capricorn hitting the natal affliction of Rahu and Mars in the 1st house. Indeed, it was�the�luck of the Irish to not have their banking system collapse�at that time.�The nodal station of Ketu in Cancer�in the summer will afflict natal Venus at 5� 03' Scorpio/H3 suggesting some tension related to issues of�wealth, status and relations with neighbors. The Venus-Jupiter period from January�2010�and Venus-Mercury period from November 2015 would likely be quite good, especially the latter period, albeit neither planet is free from blemish.> �> Best wishes,> �> Thor> �> �> Ireland AngloIrish Trty> Dec 6, 1921� 2:20 AM +00:00 GMT> Dublin , Ireland Longitude: 6W15 Latitude: 53N20> Lahiri Ayanamsha: 22:45 Current Period: VE/RA/VE> Planet Deg�� Sign� Speed���� SA�� Nakshatra Lord> ============ ========= ========= ========= =========> Asc��� 16:14 Vir����������������� Hasta����� Mo> Sun��� 20:40 Sco� +01:00:56� FM�� Jyeshtha�� Me> Moon�� 04:54 Aqu� +11:49:37� WK�� Dhanishtha Ma> Mars�� 25:07 Vir� +00:36:02� FM�� Chitra���� Ma> Merc�� 08:53 Sco� +01:32:21� CM�� Anuradha�� Sa> Jupt�� 21:09 Vir� +00:09:16� WK�� Hasta����� Mo> Ven��� 05:03 Sco� +01:15:20� ST�� Anuradha�� Sa> Sat��� 13:17 Vir� +00:04:15� FM�� Hasta����� Mo> Rahu�� 23:24 Vir� -00:02:39� FM�� Chitra���� Ma> Ketu�� 23:24 Pis� -00:02:39� FM�� Revati���� Me> �> True Node� 365.25 Day Year - Internet Time: 139 beats> Day: Tuesday� Sunrise : 8:23 AM> Tithi:� Shukla Saptami> Yoga Pt: 28:54 Sg� Yogi:Su� AviYogi:Sa� Dup Yogi: Ju> Dagha Rashis: Can Sag> > Sytems Approach Analysis> ============ ========= ===> Sun����� Good Placement, > Moon���� Bad Placement, Debilitated in Navamsha, In Infancy: 2%, Weak Dispositor, Bright,> Mars���� Good Placement, In Old Age: 2%, Weak Dispositor,Conjunct or Aspected by FM: Ra Ke ,> Mercury� Good Placement, Combust 21%, > Jupiter� Good Placement, Weak Dispositor,> Venus��� Good Placement, > Saturn�� Good Placement, Debilitated in Navamsha, Weak Dispositor, > Rahu���� Good Placement, Weak Dispositor, Conjunct or Aspected by FM: Ma , > Ketu���� Good Placement,> > Rashi Chart> ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* *******> ** 7�������������������� *�� * 5�������������������� **> *8 *������������������ *������ *������������������ *� *��� > *��� *�������������� *���������� *�������������� *��� *��� > *����� *���������� *�������������� *���������� *����� *��� > *������� *������ *���� SA 13:17����� *������ *������� *��� > *VE 05:03� *�� *������ AS 16:14������� *�� *��������� *��� > *ME 08:53��� * 6������ JU 21:09��������� * 4��������� *��� > *SU 20:40� *�� *������ RA 23:24 �������*�� *��������� *��� > *������� *������ *���� MA 25:07����� *������ *������� *��� > *����� *���������� *�������������� *���������� *����� *��� > *��� *�������������� *���������� *�������������� *��� *��� > *� *������������������ *������ *����������� �������*� *��� > **���������������������� *�� *���������������������� **��� > *9������������������������ * 3����������������������� *��� > **���������������������� *�� *���������������������� **��� > *10*������������������ *������ *������������������ *� * ���> *��� *�������������� *���������� *�������������� *��� *��� > *����� *���������� *�������������� *���������� *����� *��� > *������� *������ *������������������ *������ *������� *��� > *��������� *�� *���������������������� *�� *��������� *��� > *����� ������* 12����� KE 23:24��������� * 2��������� *��� > *��������� *�� *���������������������� *�� *��������� *��� > *������� *������ *������������������ *������ *������� *��� > *����� * MO 04:54� *�������������� *���������� *����� *��� > *��� *������������ ��*���������� *�������������� *��� *��� > *� *������������������ *������ *������������������ *� *��� > ** 11������������������� *�� * 1�������������������� **��� > ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* *******��� > Navamsha> ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* *******��� > ** 3�������������������� *�� * 1�������������������� **��� > *4 *������������������ *������ *������������������ *� *��� > *��� *�������������� *���������� *�������������� *��� *��� > *����� *���������� *���������� ����*���������� *����� *��� > *������� *������ *������������������ SA����� *������� *��� > *��������� *�� *���������������������� *�� *��������� *��� > *JU��������� * 2������ AS��������������� * 12�������� *��� > *��������� *�� *���������������������� *�� *��������� *��� > *������� *������ *������������������ *������ *������� *��� > *����� *���������� *�������������� *���������� *����� *��� > *��� *�������������� *���������� *�������������� *��� *��� > *� *������������������ *������ *������������������ *� *��� > **������ MA������������� *�� *���������������������� **��� > *5������ VE��������������� * 11����� KE�������������� *��� > **������ RA������������� *�� *���������������������� **��� > *6 *������������������ *������ *������������������ *� *��� > *��� *�������������� *���������� *�������������� *��� *��� > *����� *���������� *�������������� *���������� *����� *��� > *������� *������ *������������������ *������ *������� *��� > *��������� *�� *���������������������� *�� *��������� *��� > *ME��������� * 8� �����MO��������������� * 10 SU����� *��� > *��������� *�� *���������������������� *�� *��������� *��� > *������� *������ *������������������ *������ *������� *��� > *����� *���������� *�������������� *���������� *����� *��� > *��� *�������������� *������� ���*�������������� *��� *��� > *� *������������������ *������ *������������������ *� *��� > ** 7�������������������� *�� * 9�������������������� **��� > ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* *******��� > Vimshottari Dasha/Buktis> ============ ========= ===> Ma/Su 2.12.1921> Ma/Mo 9.4.1922> Ra/Ra 8.11.1922> Ra/Ju 21.7.1925> Ra/Sa 15.12.1927> Ra/Me 20.10.1930> Ra/Ke 9.5.1933> Ra/Ve 27.5.1934> Ra/Su 27.5.1937> Ra/Mo 21.4.1938> Ra/Ma 21.10.1939> Ju/Ju 7.11.1940> Ju/Sa 26.12.1942> Ju/Me 9.7.1945> Ju/Ke 15.10.1947> Ju/Ve 20.9.1948> Ju/Su 22.5.1951> Ju/Mo 9.3.1952> Ju/Ma 9.7.1953> Ju/Ra 15.6.1954> Sa/Sa 7.11.1956> Sa/Me 11.11.1959> Sa/Ke 21.7.1962> Sa/Ve 30.8.1963> Sa/Su 30.10.1966> Sa/Mo 12.10.1967> Sa/Ma 12.5.1969> Sa/Ra 21.6.1970> Sa/Ju 27.4.1973> Me/Me 8.11.1975> Me/Ke 6.4.1978> Me/Ve 3.4.1979> Me/Su 1.2.1982> Me/Mo 8.12.1982> Me/Ma 9.5.1984> Me/Ra 6.5.1985> Me/Ju 23.11.1987> Me/Sa 28.2.1990> Ke/Ke 7.11.1992> Ke/Ve 5.4.1993> Ke/Su 6.6.1994> Ke/Mo 11.10.1994> Ke/Ma 12.5.1995> Ke/Ra 9.10.1995> Ke/Ju 26.10.1996> Ke/Sa 2.10.1997> Ke/Me 11.11.1998> Ve/Ve 8.11.1999> Ve/Su 10.3.2003> Ve/Mo 9.3.2004> Ve/Ma 8.11.2005> Ve/Ra 8.1.2007> Ve/Ju 7.1.2010> Ve/Sa 7.9.2012> Ve/Me 8.11.2015> Ve/Ke 8.9.2018> Su/Su 8.11.2019> Su/Mo 26.2.2020> Su/Ma 26.8.2020> Su/Ra 1.1.2021> Su/Ju 26.11.2021> Su/Sa 14.9.2022> Su/Me 27.8.2023> Su/Ke 2.7.2024> Su/Ve 7.11.2024> Mo/Mo 8.11.2025> Mo/Ma 8.9.2026> Mo/Ra 9.4.2027> Mo/Ju 8.10.2028> Mo/Sa 7.2.2030> Mo/Me 8.9.2031> Mo/Ke 7.2.2033> Mo/Ve 8.9.2033> Mo/Su 9.5.2035> Chart Notes:> �> �> > > > > ________________________________> SIHA <vkchoudhry (AT) gmail (DOT) com>> SAMVA > Friday, April 24, 2009 11:39:26 PM> Re: When countries obtained their independence> > > > > �> Hello my dear Thor,> > The signing on December 6, 1921 becomes relevant in this case.> > Best wishes.> �> > > �> - > Cosmologer > SAMVA > Friday, April 24, 2009 9:30 PM> Re: When countries obtained their independence> > Hello my dear ,> > Thank you kindly�for the clarification. > > This insight would presumably have relevance for the case of Ireland where the Anglo-Irish Treaty was ratified for the first time by the Dail (parliament of Ireland). The second ratification�at the request of the British for formal jurisprudence reasons, or the�entering into force of the agreement, would then�likely�not be�so important. As discussed in an earlier message, the Treaty giving birth to Irish independence came into being in the following stages:> �> a)�its signing on December 6, 1921> b)�the first ratification on January 7, 1922> c)�the�formal second ratification on January 14, 1922, or> d) the coming into force of the Treaty on�December 6, 1922.> Best wishes,> > Thor> > > > ________________________________> SIHA <vkchoudhry (AT) gmail (DOT) com>> SAMVA > Friday, April 24, 2009 3:29:27 PM> Re: When countries obtained their independence> > > > > �> Hello my dear Thor,> > When independence is the source of formation, no need to look for any further event. We may follow the independence chart.�> In case of Norway 7 June 1905 event is right to be followed for Norway chart.> �> Best wishes.> �> > > �> - > Cosmologer > SAMVA > Friday, April 24, 2009 6:44 PM> Re: When countries obtained their independence> > Hello my dear ,> > I have one question about the formation of nations. In cases, where independence is the source of�the birth�of a collective entity, would we be�advised to look more closely at the event�when> > 1)��a people unilaterally take the�matters into their own hands to dissolve national�bonds with another collective entity�and establish a new collective identity of their own or> 2) when the approval of a former ruling nation is obtained?> > For instance, let us look at the case of NORWAY> > a)�on 7 June 1905 Norway declared the union with Sweden dissolved> b) on 26 October 1905, Sweden agreed to the repeal of the union> > Thanks for any guidance you can give on such a fundamental question.> > Best wishes,> > Thor> > > > > ________________________________> Cosmologer <cosmologer >> samva > Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:31:25 PM> When countries obtained their independence> > > > > Dear friends,> �> I have come across an interesting database showing when many countries obtained their independence. > �> Independence (most recent) by country > http://www.nationma ster.com/ graph/gov_ ind-government- independence> �> This may be helpful information for exploring the possible birth chart of a given�country.> �> Best wishes,> �> Thor>--- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 That's really interesting ... thank you Thor. Mew SAMVA , Cosmologer <cosmologer wrote: > > Dear Mew, > > I�m not sure there is a general rule for that. In fact, if there is one insight that is emerging it is that each case is different and needs to be evaluated on its own merits or basis. > > Best wishes, > > Thor > > > > > ________________________________ > Mary Ellen Wright <wdmewright > SAMVA > Saturday, April 25, 2009 2:17:33 PM > Re: Ireland [was: When countries...] > > Dear Thor: > > Again my thanks for your posts and great work with the SAMVA website ... please forgive me if this question has come up in the past, but I am wondering if a country is forcibly taken over by another country and required to accept the government of it conquerer, then what would be the SA rules for determining the SAMVA chart of the nation that was defeated? > > Many thanks for your time and consideration. > > Best Wishes, > > Mew > > SAMVA , Cosmologer <cosmologer@> wrote: > > > > Hello my dear , > > > > Indeed, I think this is a milestone in the work concerning Ireland to have a plausible national horoscope for this country at long last. I find it of special interest that Ireland would thus have the very same rising degree as the UK, 16� Virgo, and with 1st lord Mercury in the 3rd house. The color of Mercury is green and Ireland is�known as the emerald isle, given its mild climate and rainswept�verdant fauna. > > > > Best wishes, > > > > Thor > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > SIHA <vkchoudhry@> > > SAMVA > > Saturday, April 25, 2009 8:22:03 AM > > Re: Ireland [was: When countries...] > > > > > > > > > > Hello my dear Thor, > > > > Best wishes for continued follow up of events for better confidence level in the chart. > > � > > > > > > � > > - > > Cosmologer > > SAMVA > > Saturday, April 25, 2009 5:56 AM > > Ireland [was: When countries...] > > > > Hello my dear , > > � > > Thank you very much�for giving your wise assessment of the most likely�moment signalling the birth of this country. Indeed,�such moments are almost never the same - with each birth being unique in some sense. This moment also seems to have special significance as I shall narrate both in terms of the history of the�event itself and the natal potential seen in�the chart. > > > > First, let us explain what the treaty was all about. The Anglo-Irish Treaty, officially called the Articles of Agreement for a Treaty Between Great Britain and Ireland, was a treaty between the Government of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland and representatives of the de facto Irish Republic that concluded the Irish War of Independence. It established an autonomous dominion, known as the Irish Free State, within the British Empire and provided Northern Ireland, which had been created by the 1920 Government of Ireland Act, an option to opt out of the Irish Free State, which it exercised. Fortunately, we have (albeit still at this stage unconfirmed information) that the treaty was signed in London at 2:20 am on December 6, 1921 by representatives of the British government and envoys of the Irish Republic who claimed plenipotentiary status. Second, there was tension surrounding the signing and a key representative of Ireland, Michael Collins, > >� noted that by signing the treaty he was actually�signing his own death warrant. He turned out to per prescient and was assassinated in an ambush in�August 1921 by those independence fighters who wanted a more clean break with Great Britain. Over time Collins proved right about signing the treaty and�is today considered a national hero of Ireland. > > � > > The horoscope for this moment has 16� 14' Virgo rising, with�1st lord Mercury conjunct 2nd lord Venus in the 3rd house of communication. This aspect is fitting given the Irish being known for their " gift of gab " . While most of the planets are well placed, there are several notable afflictions in the chart: > > � > > a) 6th lord Saturn is conjunct MEP of 1st house,�from where it aspects the 1st lord Mercury in the 3rd house. Also, 11th lord Moon is badly placed in the 6th house. These placements�suggest a�fixity or inflexibility of�position resulting in controversy and conflict. > > b)�FM Rahu is conjunct 8th lord Mars in the 1st house. This is quite a difficult aspect, and indeed the history of Ireland has been rife with violence, albeit located in Northern Ireland, but with support from nationalist forces in Ireland. The Irish also have a reputation for an�indulgence in alcohol. > > c) 4th lord Jupiter is just within the�MEP of the 1st house but is�conjunct Rahu and Mars. > > d) 12th lord Sun is conjunct the MEP of the 3rd house. > > � > > Ireland has been in its best major period, that of Venus, since 1999. This has been a period of great rise in income. However, it has been running the sub-period of Rahu since January 2007.�The major financial crisis that broke out last autumn was�difficult for Ireland, with�transit Rahu at 23� Capricorn hitting the natal affliction of Rahu and Mars in the 1st house. Indeed, it was�the�luck of the Irish to not have their banking system collapse�at that time.�The nodal station of Ketu in Cancer�in the summer will afflict natal Venus at 5� 03' Scorpio/H3 suggesting some tension related to issues of�wealth, status and relations with neighbors. The Venus-Jupiter period from January�2010�and Venus-Mercury period from November 2015 would likely be quite good, especially the latter period, albeit neither planet is free from blemish. > > � > > Best wishes, > > � > > Thor > > � > > � > > Ireland AngloIrish Trty > > Dec 6, 1921� 2:20 AM +00:00 GMT > > Dublin , Ireland Longitude: 6W15 Latitude: 53N20 > > Lahiri Ayanamsha: 22:45 Current Period: VE/RA/VE > > Planet Deg�� Sign� Speed���� SA�� Nakshatra Lord > > ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= > > Asc��� 16:14 Vir����������������� Hasta����� Mo > > Sun��� 20:40 Sco� +01:00:56� FM�� Jyeshtha�� Me > > Moon�� 04:54 Aqu� +11:49:37� WK�� Dhanishtha Ma > > Mars�� 25:07 Vir� +00:36:02� FM�� Chitra���� Ma > > Merc�� 08:53 Sco� +01:32:21� CM�� Anuradha�� Sa > > Jupt�� 21:09 Vir� +00:09:16� WK�� Hasta����� Mo > > Ven��� 05:03 Sco� +01:15:20� ST�� Anuradha�� Sa > > Sat��� 13:17 Vir� +00:04:15� FM�� Hasta����� Mo > > Rahu�� 23:24 Vir� -00:02:39� FM�� Chitra���� Ma > > Ketu�� 23:24 Pis� -00:02:39� FM�� Revati���� Me > > � > > True Node� 365.25 Day Year - Internet Time: 139 beats > > Day: Tuesday� Sunrise : 8:23 AM > > Tithi:� Shukla Saptami > > Yoga Pt: 28:54 Sg� Yogi:Su� AviYogi:Sa� Dup Yogi: Ju > > Dagha Rashis: Can Sag > > > > Sytems Approach Analysis > > ============ ========= === > > Sun����� Good Placement, > > Moon���� Bad Placement, Debilitated in Navamsha, In Infancy: 2%, Weak Dispositor, Bright, > > Mars���� Good Placement, In Old Age: 2%, Weak Dispositor,Conjunct or Aspected by FM: Ra Ke , > > Mercury� Good Placement, Combust 21%, > > Jupiter� Good Placement, Weak Dispositor, > > Venus��� Good Placement, > > Saturn�� Good Placement, Debilitated in Navamsha, Weak Dispositor, > > Rahu���� Good Placement, Weak Dispositor, Conjunct or Aspected by FM: Ma , > > Ketu���� Good Placement, > > > > Rashi Chart > > ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* ******* > > ** 7�������������������� *�� * 5�������������������� ** > > *8 *������������������ *������ *������������������ *� *��� > > *��� *�������������� *���������� *�������������� *��� *��� > > *����� *���������� *�������������� *���������� *����� *��� > > *������� *������ *���� SA 13:17����� *������ *������� *��� > > *VE 05:03� *�� *������ AS 16:14������� *�� *��������� *��� > > *ME 08:53��� * 6������ JU 21:09��������� * 4��������� *��� > > *SU 20:40� *�� *������ RA 23:24 �������*�� *��������� *��� > > *������� *������ *���� MA 25:07����� *������ *������� *��� > > *����� *���������� *�������������� *���������� *����� *��� > > *��� *�������������� *���������� *�������������� *��� *��� > > *� *������������������ *������ *����������� �������*� *��� > > **���������������������� *�� *���������������������� **��� > > *9������������������������ * 3����������������������� *��� > > **���������������������� *�� *���������������������� **��� > > *10*������������������ *������ *������������������ *� * ��� > > *��� *�������������� *���������� *�������������� *��� *��� > > *����� *���������� *�������������� *���������� *����� *��� > > *������� *������ *������������������ *������ *������� *��� > > *��������� *�� *���������������������� *�� *��������� *��� > > *����� ������* 12����� KE 23:24��������� * 2��������� *��� > > *��������� *�� *���������������������� *�� *��������� *��� > > *������� *������ *������������������ *������ *������� *��� > > *����� * MO 04:54� *�������������� *���������� *����� *��� > > *��� *������������ ��*���������� *�������������� *��� *��� > > *� *������������������ *������ *������������������ *� *��� > > ** 11������������������� *�� * 1�������������������� **��� > > ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* *******��� > > Navamsha > > ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* *******��� > > ** 3�������������������� *�� * 1�������������������� **��� > > *4 *������������������ *������ *������������������ *� *��� > > *��� *�������������� *���������� *�������������� *��� *��� > > *����� *���������� *���������� ����*���������� *����� *��� > > *������� *������ *������������������ SA����� *������� *��� > > *��������� *�� *���������������������� *�� *��������� *��� > > *JU��������� * 2������ AS��������������� * 12�������� *��� > > *��������� *�� *���������������������� *�� *��������� *��� > > *������� *������ *������������������ *������ *������� *��� > > *����� *���������� *�������������� *���������� *����� *��� > > *��� *�������������� *���������� *�������������� *��� *��� > > *� *������������������ *������ *������������������ *� *��� > > **������ MA������������� *�� *���������������������� **��� > > *5������ VE��������������� * 11����� KE�������������� *��� > > **������ RA������������� *�� *���������������������� **��� > > *6 *������������������ *������ *������������������ *� *��� > > *��� *�������������� *���������� *�������������� *��� *��� > > *����� *���������� *�������������� *���������� *����� *��� > > *������� *������ *������������������ *������ *������� *��� > > *��������� *�� *���������������������� *�� *��������� *��� > > *ME��������� * 8� �����MO��������������� * 10 SU����� *��� > > *��������� *�� *���������������������� *�� *��������� *��� > > *������� *������ *������������������ *������ *������� *��� > > *����� *���������� *�������������� *���������� *����� *��� > > *��� *�������������� *������� ���*�������������� *��� *��� > > *� *������������������ *������ *������������������ *� *��� > > ** 7�������������������� *�� * 9�������������������� **��� > > ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* *******��� > > Vimshottari Dasha/Buktis > > ============ ========= === > > Ma/Su 2.12.1921 > > Ma/Mo 9.4.1922 > > Ra/Ra 8.11.1922 > > Ra/Ju 21.7.1925 > > Ra/Sa 15.12.1927 > > Ra/Me 20.10.1930 > > Ra/Ke 9.5.1933 > > Ra/Ve 27.5.1934 > > Ra/Su 27.5.1937 > > Ra/Mo 21.4.1938 > > Ra/Ma 21.10.1939 > > Ju/Ju 7.11.1940 > > Ju/Sa 26.12.1942 > > Ju/Me 9.7.1945 > > Ju/Ke 15.10.1947 > > Ju/Ve 20.9.1948 > > Ju/Su 22.5.1951 > > Ju/Mo 9.3.1952 > > Ju/Ma 9.7.1953 > > Ju/Ra 15.6.1954 > > Sa/Sa 7.11.1956 > > Sa/Me 11.11.1959 > > Sa/Ke 21.7.1962 > > Sa/Ve 30.8.1963 > > Sa/Su 30.10.1966 > > Sa/Mo 12.10.1967 > > Sa/Ma 12.5.1969 > > Sa/Ra 21.6.1970 > > Sa/Ju 27.4.1973 > > Me/Me 8.11.1975 > > Me/Ke 6.4.1978 > > Me/Ve 3.4.1979 > > Me/Su 1.2.1982 > > Me/Mo 8.12.1982 > > Me/Ma 9.5.1984 > > Me/Ra 6.5.1985 > > Me/Ju 23.11.1987 > > Me/Sa 28.2.1990 > > Ke/Ke 7.11.1992 > > Ke/Ve 5.4.1993 > > Ke/Su 6.6.1994 > > Ke/Mo 11.10.1994 > > Ke/Ma 12.5.1995 > > Ke/Ra 9.10.1995 > > Ke/Ju 26.10.1996 > > Ke/Sa 2.10.1997 > > Ke/Me 11.11.1998 > > Ve/Ve 8.11.1999 > > Ve/Su 10.3.2003 > > Ve/Mo 9.3.2004 > > Ve/Ma 8.11.2005 > > Ve/Ra 8.1.2007 > > Ve/Ju 7.1.2010 > > Ve/Sa 7.9.2012 > > Ve/Me 8.11.2015 > > Ve/Ke 8.9.2018 > > Su/Su 8.11.2019 > > Su/Mo 26.2.2020 > > Su/Ma 26.8.2020 > > Su/Ra 1.1.2021 > > Su/Ju 26.11.2021 > > Su/Sa 14.9.2022 > > Su/Me 27.8.2023 > > Su/Ke 2.7.2024 > > Su/Ve 7.11.2024 > > Mo/Mo 8.11.2025 > > Mo/Ma 8.9.2026 > > Mo/Ra 9.4.2027 > > Mo/Ju 8.10.2028 > > Mo/Sa 7.2.2030 > > Mo/Me 8.9.2031 > > Mo/Ke 7.2.2033 > > Mo/Ve 8.9.2033 > > Mo/Su 9.5.2035 > > Chart Notes: > > � > > � > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > SIHA <vkchoudhry (AT) gmail (DOT) com> > > SAMVA > > Friday, April 24, 2009 11:39:26 PM > > Re: When countries obtained their independence > > > > > > > > > > � > > Hello my dear Thor, > > > > The signing on December 6, 1921 becomes relevant in this case. > > > > Best wishes. > > � > > > > > > � > > - > > Cosmologer > > SAMVA > > Friday, April 24, 2009 9:30 PM > > Re: When countries obtained their independence > > > > Hello my dear , > > > > Thank you kindly�for the clarification. > > > > This insight would presumably have relevance for the case of Ireland where the Anglo-Irish Treaty was ratified for the first time by the Dail (parliament of Ireland). The second ratification�at the request of the British for formal jurisprudence reasons, or the�entering into force of the agreement, would then�likely�not be�so important. As discussed in an earlier message, the Treaty giving birth to Irish independence came into being in the following stages: > > � > > a)�its signing on December 6, 1921 > > b)�the first ratification on January 7, 1922 > > c)�the�formal second ratification on January 14, 1922, or > > d) the coming into force of the Treaty on�December 6, 1922. > > Best wishes, > > > > Thor > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > SIHA <vkchoudhry (AT) gmail (DOT) com> > > SAMVA > > Friday, April 24, 2009 3:29:27 PM > > Re: When countries obtained their independence > > > > > > > > > > � > > Hello my dear Thor, > > > > When independence is the source of formation, no need to look for any further event. We may follow the independence chart.� > > In case of Norway 7 June 1905 event is right to be followed for Norway chart. > > � > > Best wishes. > > � > > > > > > � > > - > > Cosmologer > > SAMVA > > Friday, April 24, 2009 6:44 PM > > Re: When countries obtained their independence > > > > Hello my dear , > > > > I have one question about the formation of nations. In cases, where independence is the source of�the birth�of a collective entity, would we be�advised to look more closely at the event�when > > > > 1)��a people unilaterally take the�matters into their own hands to dissolve national�bonds with another collective entity�and establish a new collective identity of their own or > > 2) when the approval of a former ruling nation is obtained? > > > > For instance, let us look at the case of NORWAY > > > > a)�on 7 June 1905 Norway declared the union with Sweden dissolved > > b) on 26 October 1905, Sweden agreed to the repeal of the union > > > > Thanks for any guidance you can give on such a fundamental question. > > > > Best wishes, > > > > Thor > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > Cosmologer <cosmologer > > > samva > > Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:31:25 PM > > When countries obtained their independence > > > > > > > > > > Dear friends, > > � > > I have come across an interesting database showing when many countries obtained their independence. > > � > > Independence (most recent) by country > > http://www.nationma ster.com/ graph/gov_ ind-government- independence > > � > > This may be helpful information for exploring the possible birth chart of a given�country. > > � > > Best wishes, > > � > > Thor > > > > > --- > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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