Guest guest Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 Dear friends, The list has become quiet of late. I have modified the wording here and there in my lastest blog, Far out astrology. The detour of Western astrologyIt has not helped astrology, that its rebirth in the West in the late middle ages resulted in a major detour from its historical forerunners as explained in the article Roman astrology in the ascendant. The result is that Western astrology is no longer a study of the mostly visible phenomena. As such, it has become removed from its intuitive and simple beginnings. Too often, one finds that rather than being rules-based Western astrology has evolved into a veritable free for all. When it comes to chart interpretation, in general it can be said that Western astrologers feel free to point to different factors without sufficient logical consistency. This is quite different from the Systems' Approach of Vedic Astrology, which is both a comprehensive system and relies on a scientific approach to astrology. Below, we can see four features of Western astrology where it has taken a major detour from its historical origins. Wrong zodiac used: by correcting for the precession of the equinoxes, the calculated tropical zodiac has lost its original moorings with the visible sidereal zodiac. There is evidence ancient astrologers knew about the precession but did not use it to adjust the zodiac (Holden, 1996). Since the late middle ages Western astrology has been based on the tropical zodiac, which is moving with relation to the fixed stars such that it is now 24° removed from the visible zodiac. Overemphasis on the Sun: the Sun has now become the veritable 'fixed star' of Western astrology. The starting point of the reading is the sun sign without relation to the house the sign Leo falls into. Moreover, many Westerners view themselves as being e.g. a "Sun in Leo", when they are in most cases with "Sun in Cancer" as per the visible zodiac. That said, in Vedic SA astrology Sun is recognised for its importance and interpreted according to its functional nature. Moreover, when other planets are placed in Sun-Like Houses (2, 3 and 9) or the sign Leo, they are considered stronger. Ascendant logic lost: the practice of Horoscopic astrology has largely been lost in the West. Hellenic, Roman and Vedic astrology all place a primary emphasis on the Ascendant. People are considered Aries if they have this sign in the ascendant. In Horoscopic astrology the focus in not on the sun-sign. Associated with this is the important logic that each house and its lord have a functional rulership, which is either positive or negative in the chart. Use of irrelevant bodies: the discovery of distant bodies invisible to the naked eye has resulted in these bodies being readily incorporated into the practice of Western astrology based on the assumption that differences in likely influences based on gravitational force or visibility do not matter. These bodies are given major import in chart interpretation. This is likely an error in assumption (Holden, 1996). I also note the following: DisclaimerThe views expressed are those of the author and should not be taken as the views of the Systems' Approach or its creator. http://cosmologer.blogspot.com/ Cosmologer <cosmologersamva Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 5:39:53 PM Blog: FAR OUT ASTROLOGY Dear friends, I have penned another article, this time about a somewhat controversial topic, but I hope you take it as a useful contribution for the sake of astrology. Sunday, May 24, 2009 FAR OUT ASTROLOGY From time immemorial, astrology has evolved as the study of the influences of planetary bodies on human life. Until the 18th century, astrology was focused on the Sun and Moon and other visible planetary bodies moving across the sky. In recent times, other more distant bodies, invisible to the naked human eye, have been discovered in our solar system. These bodies have increasingly found their way into the practice of astrology in the Western world based on the adoption of metastories from Greek mythology mixed with insights from modern psychological theories. This article offers a closer look at these bodies and implications for astrological practice. The article is offered as an eye opener to those seeking greater interpretative and predictive accuracy. To read more: http://cosmologer.blogspot.com/ Best wishes, Thor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 Dear Thor: Many thanks for the interesting articles you have written in the past regarding Western Astrology, its history and comparison with the Systems' Approach Vedic Astrology. I often have people who come to me for readings with only a limited background in Western Astrology and no knowledge of Vedic Astrology. So it is very helpful to study your research in this area. It's especially interesting that the fixed position of the Sun is taken to be so important in Western Astrology's tropical zodiac and yet the precession adjustment needed for accuracy has not been taken into account. With appreciation for your knowledge and time with SAMVA, Mew SAMVA , Cosmologer <cosmologer wrote: > > Dear friends, > > The list has become quiet of late. > > I have modified the wording here and there in my lastest blog, Far out astrology. > > The detour of Western astrology > It has not helped astrology, that its rebirth in the West in the late middle ages resulted in a major detour from its historical forerunners as explained in the article Roman astrology in the ascendant. The result�is that Western astrology is no longer a study of the mostly visible phenomena. As such, it has become removed from its intuitive and simple beginnings. Too often, one finds that rather than being rules-based Western astrology has evolved into a veritable free for all. When it comes to chart interpretation, in general it can be said that Western astrologers feel free to point to different factors without sufficient logical consistency. This is quite different from the Systems' Approach of Vedic Astrology, which is both a comprehensive system and relies on a scientific approach to astrology. Below, we can see four features of Western astrology where it has taken a major detour from its historical origins. > > � > > > > 1. Wrong zodiac used: by correcting for the precession of the equinoxes, the calculated tropical zodiac has lost its original moorings with the visible sidereal zodiac. There is evidence ancient astrologers knew about the precession but did not use it to adjust the zodiac (Holden, 1996). Since the late middle ages Western astrology has been based on the tropical zodiac, which is moving with relation to the fixed stars such that it is now 24� removed from the visible zodiac. > 2. Overemphasis on the Sun: the Sun has now become the veritable 'fixed star' of Western astrology. The starting point of the reading is the sun sign without relation to the house the sign Leo falls into. Moreover, many Westerners view themselves as being e.g. a " Sun in Leo " , when they are in most cases with " Sun in Cancer " as per the visible zodiac. That said, in Vedic SA astrology Sun is recognised for its importance�and interpreted according to its functional nature. Moreover, when other planets are placed in Sun-Like Houses (2, 3 and 9) or the sign Leo, they are considered stronger. > 3. Ascendant logic lost: the practice of Horoscopic astrology has largely been lost in the West. Hellenic, Roman and Vedic astrology all place a primary emphasis on the Ascendant. People are considered Aries if they have this sign in the ascendant. In Horoscopic astrology the focus in not on the sun-sign. Associated with this is the important logic that each house and its lord have a functional rulership, which is either positive or negative in the chart. > 4. Use of irrelevant bodies: the discovery of distant bodies invisible to the naked eye has resulted in these bodies being readily incorporated into the practice of Western astrology based on the assumption that differences in likely influences based on gravitational force or visibility do not matter. These bodies are given major import in chart interpretation. This is likely an error in assumption (Holden, 1996). > I also note�the following: > Disclaimer > The views expressed are those of the author and should not be taken as the views of the Systems' Approach or its creator. > http://cosmologer.blogspot.com/ > � > ________________________________ > > Cosmologer <cosmologer > samva > Sunday, May 24, 2009 5:39:53 PM > Blog: FAR OUT ASTROLOGY > > Dear friends, > > I have penned another article, this time about a somewhat controversial topic, but I hope you take it as a useful contribution for the sake of astrology. > > Sunday, May 24, 2009 > FAR OUT ASTROLOGY > From time immemorial, astrology has evolved as the study of the influences of planetary bodies on human life. Until the 18th century, astrology was focused on the Sun and Moon and other visible planetary bodies moving across the sky. In recent times, other more distant bodies, invisible to the naked human eye, have been discovered in our solar system. These bodies have increasingly found their way into the practice of astrology in the Western world based on the adoption of metastories from Greek mythology mixed with insights from modern psychological theories. This article offers a closer look at these bodies and implications for astrological practice. The article is offered as an eye opener to those seeking greater interpretative and predictive accuracy. > � > To read more: > http://cosmologer.blogspot.com/ > � > Best wishes, > � > Thor > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 Dear Mary Ellen, Thanks for the kind words. Two things. a. The correction for the precession of the equinoxes in the calculated tropical zodiac has resulted it losing its tie with the visible sidereal zodiac. While astronomers discovered the precession a long time ago, it was only in the 2-4 centuries AD that some astrologers began to calculate the tropical zodiac, Ptolemy included, while the vast number of them did not. However, when astrology was rediscovered in the West in the middle ages, this became the standard formulation. The reason for the precession adjustment is most likely to keep the sun tied to the vernal point in the sky - associated with farming practices in the Spring. In my humble oppion, from an astrological point of view it was a major historical mistake. b. The Sun has now become the veritable 'fixed star' of Western astrology is just a turn of phrase. As you know the fixed stars are distant suns in the galaxy. These are visible and form the zodical signs. As Western astrology no longer follows these, it has place an overreliance on our own sun, making it the centerpiece of that form of astrology - both by adopting a moving zodiac due to the solar adjustment and focusing the interpretation on the sun without the real house logic. The other major mistake of the rediscovery of astrology in the middle ages in Europe is that knowledge of Horoscopic astrology of the Greeks and Romans was lost. Philosopher, Alisdair McIntyre, in his book "After Virtue" once speculated what the outcome would be if our civilization collapsed and was forgotten for many centuries and then rediscovered based on some fragments of knowledge. What would the outcome be. He wasn't too convinced that the essence of the civilization would survive such a process. This I can is very comparable to what has happened with Western astrology. It is a creation based on bits of pieces of knowledge, out of context with its source. What we have is the original planetary influence, but stripped of their systemic interpretation. That said, we can reapproach the source through the closes living relative to ancient Greek and Roman astrology, Vedic astrology. More importantly, we have access to the knowledge of a modern master of this field, whose insights are transforming even Vedic astrology. After years of some confusion, these thoughts have begun to crystallise and I wanted to share them if it was helpful for others. Best wishes, Thor Mary Ellen Wright <wdmewrightSAMVA Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 1:11:47 PM Re: Quiet in hereDear Thor:Many thanks for the interesting articles you have written in the past regarding Western Astrology, its history and comparison with the Systems' Approach Vedic Astrology.I often have people who come to me for readings with only a limited background in Western Astrology and no knowledge of Vedic Astrology. So it is very helpful to study your research in this area.It's especially interesting that the fixed position of the Sun is taken to be so important in Western Astrology's tropical zodiac and yet the precession adjustment needed for accuracy has not been taken into account.With appreciation for your knowledge and time with SAMVA,MewSAMVA , Cosmologer <cosmologer wrote:>> Dear friends,> > The list has become quiet of late. > > I have modified the wording here and there in my lastest blog, Far out astrology. > > The detour of Western astrology> It has not helped astrology, that its rebirth in the West in the late middle ages resulted in a major detour from its historical forerunners as explained in the article Roman astrology in the ascendant. The result�is that Western astrology is no longer a study of the mostly visible phenomena. As such, it has become removed from its intuitive and simple beginnings. Too often, one finds that rather than being rules-based Western astrology has evolved into a veritable free for all. When it comes to chart interpretation, in general it can be said that Western astrologers feel free to point to different factors without sufficient logical consistency. This is quite different from the Systems' Approach of Vedic Astrology, which is both a comprehensive system and relies on a scientific approach to astrology. Below, we can see four features of Western astrology where it has taken a major detour from its historical origins.> > �> > > > 1. Wrong zodiac used: by correcting for the precession of the equinoxes, the calculated tropical zodiac has lost its original moorings with the visible sidereal zodiac. There is evidence ancient astrologers knew about the precession but did not use it to adjust the zodiac (Holden, 1996). Since the late middle ages Western astrology has been based on the tropical zodiac, which is moving with relation to the fixed stars such that it is now 24� removed from the visible zodiac. > 2. Overemphasis on the Sun: the Sun has now become the veritable 'fixed star' of Western astrology. The starting point of the reading is the sun sign without relation to the house the sign Leo falls into. Moreover, many Westerners view themselves as being e.g. a "Sun in Leo", when they are in most cases with "Sun in Cancer" as per the visible zodiac. That said, in Vedic SA astrology Sun is recognised for its importance�and interpreted according to its functional nature. Moreover, when other planets are placed in Sun-Like Houses (2, 3 and 9) or the sign Leo, they are considered stronger. > 3. Ascendant logic lost: the practice of Horoscopic astrology has largely been lost in the West. Hellenic, Roman and Vedic astrology all place a primary emphasis on the Ascendant. People are considered Aries if they have this sign in the ascendant. In Horoscopic astrology the focus in not on the sun-sign. Associated with this is the important logic that each house and its lord have a functional rulership, which is either positive or negative in the chart. > 4. Use of irrelevant bodies: the discovery of distant bodies invisible to the naked eye has resulted in these bodies being readily incorporated into the practice of Western astrology based on the assumption that differences in likely influences based on gravitational force or visibility do not matter. These bodies are given major import in chart interpretation. This is likely an error in assumption (Holden, 1996).> I also note�the following:> Disclaimer> The views expressed are those of the author and should not be taken as the views of the Systems' Approach or its creator.> http://cosmologer.blogspot.com/> �> ________________________________> > Cosmologer <cosmologer> samva > Sunday, May 24, 2009 5:39:53 PM> Blog: FAR OUT ASTROLOGY> > Dear friends,> > I have penned another article, this time about a somewhat controversial topic, but I hope you take it as a useful contribution for the sake of astrology.> > Sunday, May 24, 2009> FAR OUT ASTROLOGY > From time immemorial, astrology has evolved as the study of the influences of planetary bodies on human life. Until the 18th century, astrology was focused on the Sun and Moon and other visible planetary bodies moving across the sky. In recent times, other more distant bodies, invisible to the naked human eye, have been discovered in our solar system. These bodies have increasingly found their way into the practice of astrology in the Western world based on the adoption of metastories from Greek mythology mixed with insights from modern psychological theories. This article offers a closer look at these bodies and implications for astrological practice. The article is offered as an eye opener to those seeking greater interpretative and predictive accuracy.> �> To read more:> http://cosmologer.blogspot.com/> �> Best wishes,> �> Thor>--- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 Thanks for explaining that further Thor ... helps me to understand better the correction for the precession and how that adjustment was used (and not used) in Western Astrology along with its overreliance on the Sun. Yes, thank goodness we are blessed with Professor VK Choudhry and his Systems' Approach! With best wishes, Mary Ellen SAMVA , Cosmologer <cosmologer wrote: > > Dear Mary Ellen, > > Thanks for the kind words. > > Two things. > > a. The correction for the precession of the equinoxes in the calculated tropical zodiac has resulted it�losing its tie with the visible sidereal zodiac. While astronomers discovered the precession a long time ago, it was only in the 2-4 centuries AD that some astrologers began to calculate the tropical zodiac, Ptolemy included, while the vast number of them did not. However, when astrology was rediscovered in the West in the middle ages, this became the standard formulation. The reason for the precession adjustment is most likely�to keep the sun tied to the vernal point in the sky - associated with farming practices in the Spring. In my humble oppion, from an astrological point of view it was a major�historical mistake. > > b.�The Sun has now become the veritable 'fixed star' of Western astrology is just a turn of phrase. As you know the fixed stars are distant suns in the galaxy. These are visible and form the zodical signs. As Western astrology no longer follows these, it has place an overreliance on our own sun, making it the centerpiece of that form of astrology - both by adopting a moving zodiac due to the solar adjustment and focusing the interpretation on the sun without the real house logic. The other major mistake of the rediscovery of astrology in the middle ages in Europe is that knowledge of Horoscopic astrology of the Greeks and Romans was lost. > > Philosopher, Alisdair McIntyre, in his book " After Virtue " once speculated what the outcome would be if our civilization collapsed and was forgotten for many centuries and then rediscovered based on some fragments of knowledge.�What would the outcome be.�He wasn't too convinced that the essence of the civilization would survive such a process. This I can is very comparable to what has happened with �Western astrology. It is a creation based on bits of pieces of knowledge, out of context with its source.�What we have is the original planetary influence, but stripped of their systemic�interpretation. That said, we can reapproach the source through the closes living relative to ancient Greek and Roman astrology, Vedic astrology. More importantly, we have access to the knowledge of a modern master of this field,�whose insights are transforming even Vedic astrology.� > > After years of some confusion, these thoughts have begun to crystallise and I wanted to share them if it was helpful for others. > > Best wishes, > > Thor > > > > > ________________________________ > Mary Ellen Wright <wdmewright > SAMVA > Thursday, May 28, 2009 1:11:47 PM > Re: Quiet in here > > Dear Thor: > > Many thanks for the interesting articles you have written in the past regarding Western Astrology, its history and comparison with the Systems' Approach Vedic Astrology. > > I often have people who come to me for readings with only a limited background in Western Astrology and no knowledge of Vedic Astrology.� So it is very helpful to study your research in this area. > > It's especially interesting that the fixed position of the Sun is taken to be so important in Western Astrology's tropical zodiac and yet the precession adjustment needed for accuracy has not been taken into account. > > With appreciation for your knowledge and time with SAMVA, > > Mew > > SAMVA , Cosmologer <cosmologer@> wrote: > > > > Dear friends, > > > > The list has become quiet of late. > > > > I have modified the wording here and there in my lastest blog, Far out astrology. > > > > The detour of Western astrology > > It has not helped astrology, that its rebirth in the West in the late middle ages resulted in a major detour from its historical forerunners as explained in the article Roman astrology in the ascendant. The result�is that Western astrology is no longer a study of the mostly visible phenomena. As such, it has become removed from its intuitive and simple beginnings. Too often, one finds that rather than being rules-based Western astrology has evolved into a veritable free for all. When it comes to chart interpretation, in general it can be said that Western astrologers feel free to point to different factors without sufficient logical consistency. This is quite different from the Systems' Approach of Vedic Astrology, which is both a comprehensive system and relies on a scientific approach to astrology. Below, we can see four features of Western astrology where it has taken a major detour from its historical origins. > > > > � > > > > > > > > ��� 1. Wrong zodiac used: by correcting for the precession of the equinoxes, the calculated tropical zodiac has lost its original moorings with the visible sidereal zodiac. There is evidence ancient astrologers knew about the precession but did not use it to adjust the zodiac (Holden, 1996). Since the late middle ages Western astrology has been based on the tropical zodiac, which is moving with relation to the fixed stars such that it is now 24� removed from the visible zodiac. > > ��� 2. Overemphasis on the Sun: the Sun has now become the veritable 'fixed star' of Western astrology. The starting point of the reading is the sun sign without relation to the house the sign Leo falls into. Moreover, many Westerners view themselves as being e.g. a " Sun in Leo " , when they are in most cases with " Sun in Cancer " as per the visible zodiac. That said, in Vedic SA astrology Sun is recognised for its importance�and interpreted according to its functional nature. Moreover, when other planets are placed in Sun-Like Houses (2, 3 and 9) or the sign Leo, they are considered stronger. > > ��� 3. Ascendant logic lost: the practice of Horoscopic astrology has largely been lost in the West. Hellenic, Roman and Vedic astrology all place a primary emphasis on the Ascendant. People are considered Aries if they have this sign in the ascendant. In Horoscopic astrology the focus in not on the sun-sign. Associated with this is the important logic that each house and its lord have a functional rulership, which is either positive or negative in the chart. > > ��� 4. Use of irrelevant bodies: the discovery of distant bodies invisible to the naked eye has resulted in these bodies being readily incorporated into the practice of Western astrology based on the assumption that differences in likely influences based on gravitational force or visibility do not matter. These bodies are given major import in chart interpretation. This is likely an error in assumption (Holden, 1996). > > I also note�the following: > > Disclaimer > > The views expressed are those of the author and should not be taken as the views of the Systems' Approach or its creator. > > http://cosmologer.blogspot.com/ > > � > > ________________________________ > > > > Cosmologer <cosmologer@> > > samva > > Sunday, May 24, 2009 5:39:53 PM > > Blog: FAR OUT ASTROLOGY > > > > Dear friends, > > > > I have penned another article, this time about a somewhat controversial topic, but I hope you take it as a useful contribution for the sake of astrology. > > > > Sunday, May 24, 2009 > > FAR OUT ASTROLOGY > > From time immemorial, astrology has evolved as the study of the influences of planetary bodies on human life. Until the 18th century, astrology was focused on the Sun and Moon and other visible planetary bodies moving across the sky. In recent times, other more distant bodies, invisible to the naked human eye, have been discovered in our solar system. These bodies have increasingly found their way into the practice of astrology in the Western world based on the adoption of metastories from Greek mythology mixed with insights from modern psychological theories. This article offers a closer look at these bodies and implications for astrological practice. The article is offered as an eye opener to those seeking greater interpretative and predictive accuracy. > > � > > To read more: > > http://cosmologer.blogspot.com/ > > � > > Best wishes, > > � > > Thor > > > > > > > --- > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 29, 2009 Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 Dear Thor: I finally had a chance to read your article… and once again I find your work brilliant, helpful, and insightful. Thank you for all that you do for us SAMVA members, and for honoring our dear through your work and sharing ethic. Best wishes, David Hawthorne SAMVA [sAMVA ] On Behalf Of Cosmologer Thursday, May 28, 2009 8:46 AM SAMVA Re: Re: Quiet in here Dear Mary Ellen, Thanks for the kind words. Two things. a. The correction for the precession of the equinoxes in the calculated tropical zodiac has resulted it losing its tie with the visible sidereal zodiac. While astronomers discovered the precession a long time ago, it was only in the 2-4 centuries AD that some astrologers began to calculate the tropical zodiac, Ptolemy included, while the vast number of them did not. However, when astrology was rediscovered in the West in the middle ages, this became the standard formulation. The reason for the precession adjustment is most likely to keep the sun tied to the vernal point in the sky - associated with farming practices in the Spring. In my humble oppion, from an astrological point of view it was a major historical mistake. b. The Sun has now become the veritable 'fixed star' of Western astrology is just a turn of phrase. As you know the fixed stars are distant suns in the galaxy. These are visible and form the zodical signs. As Western astrology no longer follows these, it has place an overreliance on our own sun, making it the centerpiece of that form of astrology - both by adopting a moving zodiac due to the solar adjustment and focusing the interpretation on the sun without the real house logic. The other major mistake of the rediscovery of astrology in the middle ages in Europe is that knowledge of Horoscopic astrology of the Greeks and Romans was lost. Philosopher, Alisdair McIntyre, in his book " After Virtue " once speculated what the outcome would be if our civilization collapsed and was forgotten for many centuries and then rediscovered based on some fragments of knowledge. What would the outcome be. He wasn't too convinced that the essence of the civilization would survive such a process. This I can is very comparable to what has happened with Western astrology. It is a creation based on bits of pieces of knowledge, out of context with its source. What we have is the original planetary influence, but stripped of their systemic interpretation. That said, we can reapproach the source through the closes living relative to ancient Greek and Roman astrology, Vedic astrology. More importantly, we have access to the knowledge of a modern master of this field, whose insights are transforming even Vedic astrology. After years of some confusion, these thoughts have begun to crystallise and I wanted to share them if it was helpful for others. Best wishes, Thor Mary Ellen Wright <wdmewright SAMVA Thursday, May 28, 2009 1:11:47 PM Re: Quiet in here Dear Thor: Many thanks for the interesting articles you have written in the past regarding Western Astrology, its history and comparison with the Systems' Approach Vedic Astrology. I often have people who come to me for readings with only a limited background in Western Astrology and no knowledge of Vedic Astrology. So it is very helpful to study your research in this area. It's especially interesting that the fixed position of the Sun is taken to be so important in Western Astrology's tropical zodiac and yet the precession adjustment needed for accuracy has not been taken into account. With appreciation for your knowledge and time with SAMVA, Mew SAMVA , Cosmologer <cosmologer wrote: > > Dear friends, > > The list has become quiet of late. > > I have modified the wording here and there in my lastest blog, Far out astrology. > > The detour of Western astrology > It has not helped astrology, that its rebirth in the West in the late middle ages resulted in a major detour from its historical forerunners as explained in the article Roman astrology in the ascendant. The result�is that Western astrology is no longer a study of the mostly visible phenomena. As such, it has become removed from its intuitive and simple beginnings. Too often, one finds that rather than being rules-based Western astrology has evolved into a veritable free for all. When it comes to chart interpretation, in general it can be said that Western astrologers feel free to point to different factors without sufficient logical consistency. This is quite different from the Systems' Approach of Vedic Astrology, which is both a comprehensive system and relies on a scientific approach to astrology. Below, we can see four features of Western astrology where it has taken a major detour from its historical origins. > > � > > > > 1. Wrong zodiac used: by correcting for the precession of the equinoxes, the calculated tropical zodiac has lost its original moorings with the visible sidereal zodiac. There is evidence ancient astrologers knew about the precession but did not use it to adjust the zodiac (Holden, 1996). Since the late middle ages Western astrology has been based on the tropical zodiac, which is moving with relation to the fixed stars such that it is now 24� removed from the visible zodiac. > 2. Overemphasis on the Sun: the Sun has now become the veritable 'fixed star' of Western astrology. The starting point of the reading is the sun sign without relation to the house the sign Leo falls into. Moreover, many Westerners view themselves as being e.g. a " Sun in Leo " , when they are in most cases with " Sun in Cancer " as per the visible zodiac. That said, in Vedic SA astrology Sun is recognised for its importance�and interpreted according to its functional nature. Moreover, when other planets are placed in Sun-Like Houses (2, 3 and 9) or the sign Leo, they are considered stronger. > 3. Ascendant logic lost: the practice of Horoscopic astrology has largely been lost in the West. Hellenic, Roman and Vedic astrology all place a primary emphasis on the Ascendant. People are considered Aries if they have this sign in the ascendant. In Horoscopic astrology the focus in not on the sun-sign. Associated with this is the important logic that each house and its lord have a functional rulership, which is either positive or negative in the chart. > 4. Use of irrelevant bodies: the discovery of distant bodies invisible to the naked eye has resulted in these bodies being readily incorporated into the practice of Western astrology based on the assumption that differences in likely influences based on gravitational force or visibility do not matter. These bodies are given major import in chart interpretation. This is likely an error in assumption (Holden, 1996). > I also note�the following: > Disclaimer > The views expressed are those of the author and should not be taken as the views of the Systems' Approach or its creator. > http://cosmologer.blogspot.com/ > � > ________________________________ > > Cosmologer <cosmologer > samva > Sunday, May 24, 2009 5:39:53 PM > Blog: FAR OUT ASTROLOGY > > Dear friends, > > I have penned another article, this time about a somewhat controversial topic, but I hope you take it as a useful contribution for the sake of astrology. > > Sunday, May 24, 2009 > FAR OUT ASTROLOGY > From time immemorial, astrology has evolved as the study of the influences of planetary bodies on human life. Until the 18th century, astrology was focused on the Sun and Moon and other visible planetary bodies moving across the sky. In recent times, other more distant bodies, invisible to the naked human eye, have been discovered in our solar system. These bodies have increasingly found their way into the practice of astrology in the Western world based on the adoption of metastories from Greek mythology mixed with insights from modern psychological theories. This article offers a closer look at these bodies and implications for astrological practice. The article is offered as an eye opener to those seeking greater interpretative and predictive accuracy. > � > To read more: > http://cosmologer.blogspot.com/ > � > Best wishes, > � > Thor > --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 Dear David, Thank you for the kind words. The best reward is when others find the information of use. Indeed, is leading the way with not only his magnificent contribution to the science of astrology but also his enromous generosity to share his work and help others understand it so freely. Best wishes, Thor SAMVA , " David Hawthorne " <david wrote: > > Dear Thor: > > I finally had a chance to read your article… and once again I find your work > brilliant, helpful, and insightful. > > Thank you for all that you do for us SAMVA members, and for honoring our > dear through your work and sharing ethic. > > Best wishes, > > David Hawthorne > > SAMVA [sAMVA ] On Behalf Of > Cosmologer > Thursday, May 28, 2009 8:46 AM > SAMVA > Re: Re: Quiet in here > > > > > > Dear Mary Ellen, > > Thanks for the kind words. > > Two things. > > a. The correction for the precession of the equinoxes in the calculated > tropical zodiac has resulted it losing its tie with the visible sidereal > zodiac. While astronomers discovered the precession a long time ago, it was > only in the 2-4 centuries AD that some astrologers began to calculate the > tropical zodiac, Ptolemy included, while the vast number of them did not. > However, when astrology was rediscovered in the West in the middle ages, > this became the standard formulation. The reason for the precession > adjustment is most likely to keep the sun tied to the vernal point in the > sky - associated with farming practices in the Spring. In my humble oppion, > from an astrological point of view it was a major historical mistake. > > b. The Sun has now become the veritable 'fixed star' of Western astrology is > just a turn of phrase. As you know the fixed stars are distant suns in the > galaxy. These are visible and form the zodical signs. As Western astrology > no longer follows these, it has place an overreliance on our own sun, making > it the centerpiece of that form of astrology - both by adopting a moving > zodiac due to the solar adjustment and focusing the interpretation on the > sun without the real house logic. The other major mistake of the rediscovery > of astrology in the middle ages in Europe is that knowledge of Horoscopic > astrology of the Greeks and Romans was lost. > > Philosopher, Alisdair McIntyre, in his book " After Virtue " once speculated > what the outcome would be if our civilization collapsed and was forgotten > for many centuries and then rediscovered based on some fragments of > knowledge. What would the outcome be. He wasn't too convinced that the > essence of the civilization would survive such a process. This I can is very > comparable to what has happened with Western astrology. It is a creation > based on bits of pieces of knowledge, out of context with its source. What > we have is the original planetary influence, but stripped of their systemic > interpretation. That said, we can reapproach the source through the closes > living relative to ancient Greek and Roman astrology, Vedic astrology. More > importantly, we have access to the knowledge of a modern master of this > field, whose insights are transforming even Vedic astrology. > > After years of some confusion, these thoughts have begun to crystallise and > I wanted to share them if it was helpful for others. > > Best wishes, > > Thor > > _____ > > Mary Ellen Wright <wdmewright > SAMVA > Thursday, May 28, 2009 1:11:47 PM > Re: Quiet in here > > Dear Thor: > > Many thanks for the interesting articles you have written in the past > regarding Western Astrology, its history and comparison with the Systems' > Approach Vedic Astrology. > > I often have people who come to me for readings with only a limited > background in Western Astrology and no knowledge of Vedic Astrology. So it > is very helpful to study your research in this area. > > It's especially interesting that the fixed position of the Sun is taken to > be so important in Western Astrology's tropical zodiac and yet the > precession adjustment needed for accuracy has not been taken into account. > > With appreciation for your knowledge and time with SAMVA, > > Mew > > SAMVA , Cosmologer <cosmologer@> wrote: > > > > Dear friends, > > > > The list has become quiet of late. > > > > I have modified the wording here and there in my lastest blog, Far out > astrology. > > > > The detour of Western astrology > > It has not helped astrology, that its rebirth in the West in the late > middle ages resulted in a major detour from its historical forerunners as > explained in the article Roman astrology in the ascendant. The result�is > that Western astrology is no longer a study of the mostly visible phenomena. > As such, it has become removed from its intuitive and simple beginnings. Too > often, one finds that rather than being rules-based Western astrology has > evolved into a veritable free for all. When it comes to chart > interpretation, in general it can be said that Western astrologers feel free > to point to different factors without sufficient logical consistency. This > is quite different from the Systems' Approach of Vedic Astrology, which is > both a comprehensive system and relies on a scientific approach to > astrology. Below, we can see four features of Western astrology where it has > taken a major detour from its historical origins. > > > > � > > > > > > > > 1. Wrong zodiac used: by correcting for the precession of the > equinoxes, the calculated tropical zodiac has lost its original moorings > with the visible sidereal zodiac. There is evidence ancient astrologers knew > about the precession but did not use it to adjust the zodiac (Holden, 1996). > Since the late middle ages Western astrology has been based on the tropical > zodiac, which is moving with relation to the fixed stars such that it is now > 24� removed from the visible zodiac. > > 2. Overemphasis on the Sun: the Sun has now become the veritable > 'fixed star' of Western astrology. The starting point of the reading is the > sun sign without relation to the house the sign Leo falls into. Moreover, > many Westerners view themselves as being e.g. a " Sun in Leo " , when they are > in most cases with " Sun in Cancer " as per the visible zodiac. That said, in > Vedic SA astrology Sun is recognised for its importance�and interpreted > according to its functional nature. Moreover, when other planets are placed > in Sun-Like Houses (2, 3 and 9) or the sign Leo, they are considered > stronger. > > 3. Ascendant logic lost: the practice of Horoscopic astrology has > largely been lost in the West. Hellenic, Roman and Vedic astrology all place > a primary emphasis on the Ascendant. People are considered Aries if they > have this sign in the ascendant. In Horoscopic astrology the focus in not on > the sun-sign. Associated with this is the important logic that each house > and its lord have a functional rulership, which is either positive or > negative in the chart. > > 4. Use of irrelevant bodies: the discovery of distant bodies invisible > to the naked eye has resulted in these bodies being readily incorporated > into the practice of Western astrology based on the assumption that > differences in likely influences based on gravitational force or visibility > do not matter. These bodies are given major import in chart interpretation. > This is likely an error in assumption (Holden, 1996). > > I also note�the following: > > Disclaimer > > The views expressed are those of the author and should not be taken as the > views of the Systems' Approach or its creator. > > http://cosmologer.blogspot.com/ > > � > > ________________________________ > > > > Cosmologer <cosmologer@> > > samva > > Sunday, May 24, 2009 5:39:53 PM > > Blog: FAR OUT ASTROLOGY > > > > Dear friends, > > > > I have penned another article, this time about a somewhat controversial > topic, but I hope you take it as a useful contribution for the sake of > astrology. > > > > Sunday, May 24, 2009 > > FAR OUT ASTROLOGY > > From time immemorial, astrology has evolved as the study of the influences > of planetary bodies on human life. Until the 18th century, astrology was > focused on the Sun and Moon and other visible planetary bodies moving across > the sky. In recent times, other more distant bodies, invisible to the naked > human eye, have been discovered in our solar system. These bodies have > increasingly found their way into the practice of astrology in the Western > world based on the adoption of metastories from Greek mythology mixed with > insights from modern psychological theories. This article offers a closer > look at these bodies and implications for astrological practice. The article > is offered as an eye opener to those seeking greater interpretative and > predictive accuracy. > > � > > To read more: > > http://cosmologer.blogspot.com/ > > � > > Best wishes, > > � > > Thor > > > > > > > --- > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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