: USA: the recession is very likely over

September 22, 2009

Dear Thor,

I was speaking in general to news stories circulating at this time in the

USA. We have to see all angles and be open to any possibilities with minimum

bias.

Best regards,

Vyas Munidas

-

" cosmologer " <cosmologer

Tuesday, September 22, 2009 8:24 AM

Re: : USA: the recession is " very likely over

PS One spelling correction. The word 'threat' should, of course, be 'thread'

(as in discussion thread.

SAMVA , Cosmologer <cosmologer wrote:

>

> Dear Vyas,

>

> Why would a new administration cover up for the sins of the last one?

>

> That said, let us end this threat before it becomes a burden for us andÂ

> the list members.

>

> Thor

>

> ________________________________

> Vyas Munidas <muni>

> SAMVA

> Tuesday, September 22, 2009 12:09:56 PM

> Re: : USA: the recession is " very likely over

>

> Dear Thor,

>

> We can also take the same idea for the news stories coming out in the

> nation

> when manipulations are indicated. Some things are exposed, and others

> circulate.

>

> Best regards,

>

> Vyas Munidas

>

> -

> " Cosmologer " <cosmologer

> <SAMVA >

> Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:31 AM

> Re: : USA: the recession is " very likely over

>

> Hello dear list members,

>

> Here is a story which shows how the manipulative tendencies of Rahu or 8th

> lord can manifest. First, these influences can produces strong urges which

> the individual feels a need to satisfy without consideration for the

> impact

> on others or in contravention of social norms. The needs compel the

> individual to deceive others as necessary. Normally, the mental deception

> begins with one self. The ruse is then extended to others and pursued

> until

> it is discovered, often becoming quite elaborate before being discovered.

> A

> rise is then followed by a humiliating and painful fall. The Greek

> tragedies, including the Illiyad and Odyssey of Homer, were built on a

> similar theme, based on the hubris of individuals who seek worldly power

> or

> the satisifaction of personal desires, with a good amount of human

> arrogance, resulting in a tragic fall or painful experiences.

>

> Edwards asked aide to claim paternity, sources say

> updated 2 hours, 48 minutes ago

> RALEIGH, North Carolina (CNN) -- Former Democratic presidential hopeful

> John

> Edwards talked a campaign aide into claiming he fathered a child born to

> Edwards' onetime mistress, sources familiar with the issue said Monday.

> Andrew Young, former aide to Sen. John Edwards, claims Edwards knew all

> along his mistress was carrying his child. Edwards admitted to his affair

> with Rielle Hunter in August 2008 after months of denials, but said he

> could

> not have been the father of Hunter's daughter, who was born the previous

> February. Former Edwards staffer Andrew Young has said he was the girl's

> father -- but has recanted and says he made it because he believed in

> Edwards, lawyers and others familiar with the matter told CNN.

> http://edition.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/22/edwards.affair/index.html

>

> Thor

>

> ________________________________

> Cosmologer <cosmologer

> SAMVA

> Tuesday, September 22, 2009 7:18:06 AM

> Re: : USA: the recession is " very likely over

>

> Hello dear Vyas,

>

> List members may make use of the following studies of the SA astrology of

> the Great Depression.

>

> SAMVA USA chart: the Moon's nodes and the start of the Great Depression

> (December 19, 2007)

>

http://cosmologer.blogspot.com/2007/12/samva-usa-chart-moons-nodes-and-start.htm\

l

>

> SAMVA USA chart: Bank Holiday of 1933 (January 16, 2008)

>

http://cosmologer.blogspot.com/2008/01/samva-usa-chart-bank-holiday-of-1933.html

>

> Importantly, the major period operating was the Rahu period from 1919 to

> 1937. It was marked by a rise (Roaring Twenties) and a fall (Great

> Depression), which are characteristic influences of Rahu. The fortunes

> were

> strongly influenced by the sequence of sub-periods and transits. The major

> cataclysm came in the Rahu-Ketu period, which began on October 19, 1929,

> when the transit nodal axis was conjunct both the natal nodes and the MEPs

> of the 4th and 10th houses.

>

> As for reporters who can't wait to report on an improvement, there are two

> things two keep in mind:

> 1) human hope springs eternal

> 2) one insight that has given is that an objective

> assessment requires removal of attachment from a given situation.

>

> In other words, the wish for improvement (attachment for earlier booming

> period) and a better future (hope) may explain such over-optimistic news

> reports rather than some manipulation of people by the government. In this

> regard we may also note that with 1 lord Moon exalted in the 11th house,

> American's would generally tend to be an optimistic people. A case of

> manipulation of the masses by the government (associated with the natal

> influences of 8th lord Saturn's aspect on 2nd lord Sun and Rahu's

> affliction

> on the 10th house, 2nd house and 4th house and 6th house) is likely to

> have

> different motivations.

>

> Thor

>

> ________________________________

> Vyas Munidas <muni>

> SAMVA

> Tuesday, September 22, 2009 1:29:46 AM

> Re: : USA: the recession is " very likely over

>

> Dear Thor,

>

> List members may find it very illuminating to deeply study the great crash

> of 1929, the conditions pre and post, the news stories that were fed right

> after the crash, the sub periods and transits as well. An excerpt from an

> article on wikipedia:

>

> " After the crash, the Dow Jones Industrial Average (DJIA) partially

> recovered in November-December 1929 and early 1930, only to reverse and

> crash again, reaching a low point of the great bear market in 1932. On

> July

> 8, 1932 the Dow reached its lowest level of the 20th century and did not

> return to pre-1929 levels until 23 November 1954. "

>

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wall_Street_Crash_of_1929

>

> Best regards,

>

> Vyas Munidas

>

> -

> " Cosmologer " <cosmologer

> <SAMVA >

> Monday, September 21, 2009 8:08 PM

> Re: : USA: the recession is " very likely over

>

> Hello dear Vyas,

>

> The aspect of natal Rahu in the SAMVA USA chart to transit 8th Saturn in

> Leo

> in September 2008 was a case of such an aspect having a direct connection

> in

> the chart. A lot of problems were encountered, including manipulation and

> destruction of legitimacy and assets, etc.. At the same time, transit 6th

> lord Jupiter in the 6th house was also afflicted by natal Rahu, signalling

> the banking crisis. As Jupiter also cast an aspect to transit Saturn, the

> destruction of assets and legitimacy was compounded. Tough times indeed -

> and a crisis broke out as predicted.

>

> In this case, the relevance to the USA is far less pronounced. That said,

> transit 8th lord Saturn has to do with government communication to the

> people. Saturn is in the 3rd house of communication. The aspect from

> transit

> Rahu in the 7th house of foreign policy could bring some manipulative

> influences to such communication.

>

> However, keep in mind the trend influences mentioned, and the fact that

> the

> prediction was based on the relief of prior transit strains. The trend

> influences will continue after these brief influences pass. Moreover, the

> brief aspect of transit Rahu to transit Saturn doesnÂ´t make the relief

> evidenced any less true, especially as it is expected to continue after

> these present transit strains pass. An economy is like a large oil tanker.

> It takes time to build up speed and when it gets moving, it takes time to

> slow down. Some squalls donÂ´t alter that fact.

>

> Thor

>

> ________________________________

> Vyas Munidas <muni>

> SAMVA

> Monday, September 21, 2009 11:50:25 PM

> Re: : USA: the recession is " very likely over

>

> Dear Thor,

>

> Correct, and this has been seen and said many times.

>

> My point is besides this and it stands strong:- when manipulative

> influences

> are at work, the increased positive news coming out should be questioned.

> I

> hope that you agree.

>

> Best regards,

>

> Vyas Munidas

>

> -

> " Cosmologer " <cosmologer

> <SAMVA >

> Monday, September 21, 2009 7:20 PM

> Re: : USA: the recession is " very likely over

>

> Dear Vyas,

>

> In general, the trend in the SAMVA USA chart is as per the dasa-bukhti of

> Venus-Saturn, that is for sluggish growth. The entry of transit Saturn

> into

> Virgo is expected to be associated with some relief.

>

> Stationary transit afflictions may produce significant events. Hence,when

> the station of Rahu at 6Â° Capricorn in aspect to natal Moon at 7Â° 19'

> Taurus

> lifted in early September, along with the entry of Saturn into Virgo and

> 3rd

> house, and out of the aspect of natal Saturn, some relief was expected.

> Sure

> enough, some relief was reported in the newspapers. The number of such

> news

> accounts has been continuous since and that is what is important at the

> national level. This is why I have shared those news stories on the list.

> They confirm the prediction.

>

> As for the transit-to-transit aspect of Rahu in early Capricorn to Saturn,

> Sun and Mercury in early Virgo is not strongly linked into the SAMVA USA

> chart. However, this transit will surely add to other tensions associated

> with e.g. the aspect of tr Saturn and tr Ketu to natal Jupiter in the

> chart,

> etc. and more so, as you point out, as Saturn is sub-period lord.

> Importantly, as those aspects aren't stationary, their influence will be

> short lived.

>

> Only the aspect of tr Jupiter to natal Sun is stationary at present and

> hence its influence will be most pronounced. Fortunately, for the USA, the

> natal Sun is strong and thus the influence is mostly a 6th house type

> strain

> on its indications manifesting mostly in strain having to do with 7th

> house

> matters.

>

> Finally, the present transit Rahu affliction is not linked into natal

> placements in the USA chart, hence the influences associated with this

> planet are not expected to be strongly felt in the national life. That

> said,

> the transit-to-transit influences will be there for a few weeks, adding to

> the concerns linked to the other adverse transits earlier mentioned.

>

> Thor

>

> ________________________________

> Vyas Munidas <muni>

> SAMVA

> Monday, September 21, 2009 9:38:21 PM

> Re: : USA: the recession is " very likely over

>

> My dear Thor,

>

> My point re: news coming out when manipulative factors are heavy, have

> strong astrological backing by SA and is therefore noteworthy.

> Practitioners

> of SA can choose to accept or deny it per their personal understanding.

>

> Best regards,

>

> Vyas Munidas

>

> -

> " Cosmologer " <cosmologer

> <SAMVA >

> Monday, September 21, 2009 5:12 PM

> Re: : USA: the recession is " very likely over

>

> Dear Vyas,

>

> I donÂ´t see the value of going into semantics concerning " long bottoms "

> or

> personal views on the soundness of the capitalist system, etc.. I am

> simply

> interested in analysing the SA astrology of the SAMVA USA chart, based on

> the required understanding of the chart and the mundane phenomena under

> study.

>

> Most economists just focus on the measurements at hand. Sure, they may get

> some very important things completely wrong, such as the extent of risk

> and

> overleverage in the financial system. In general, however, they just

> report

> and draw conclusions from the data being tabulated and released. Krugman

> was

> just reacting to the incoming data. It was changing his view of what is

> going on in the economy.

>

> Sure, the USA has had many financial crisis in its history, and, you are

> right, they can take a long time to work themselves out. And this one will

> likely do that too. In fact, has warned that the coming

> weeks may see setbacks in financial markets due to the difficult transits.

> However, long term, based on the Venus-Saturn period, in general, he sees

> a

> sluggish recovery. Of course, as I have mentioned before, there are some

> intense aspects for the next twelve months

>

> - tr stationary 6th lord Jupiter conjunct natal 2nd lord Sun (september -

> november 2009)

> - tr stationary 8th lord Saturn aspects natal 10th lord Mars (december

> 2009-february 2010)

> - tr stationary Rahu afflicts natal Rahu and tr Ketu afflicts natal Ketu

> (summer 2010)

> - tr Saturn opposite tr Jupiter, while both aspect natal Jupiter (summer

> 2010)

>

> These aspects will have their own influence at these times, which will

> overtake the trend influences to the extent that the natal

> strength/weakeness of the planets allows.

>

> Thor

>

> ________________________________

> Vyas Munidas <muni>

> SAMVA

> Monday, September 21, 2009 8:38:27 PM

> Re: : USA: the recession is " very likely over

>

> Dear Thor,

>

> Professor Choudhury made his prediction based on the increase of planetary

> strength and the removal of key afflictions. And this was the trigger for

> some so-called recovery news. Now the news is increasing when things are

> getting more difficult.

>

> It's up to you how you choose to judge this. For me, if I know the chart

> of

> someone who is trying to sell me a story, and I know that the manipulative

> factors are at play, I tend not to buy it. We have the USA's chart.

>

> Doubt about improvement is seen from the chart.

>

> Can the stock market continue to rally from here? Of course it can! Such

> is

> the nature of greed and feeding optimistic stories into the pool. The 1929

> stock market crash took years to unravel and there were lots of good news

> coming out after the initial fallout. The health of the US economy can

> only

> truly improve if the right infrastructure is put it - this can take many,

> many years. These problems won't just vanish by printing more money or

> good

> news. If you examine the reasons why the stock market has improved, you'll

> see that it's because of cutbacks and good old fashioned greed. In the

> short

> term, yes, full recovery! And many bad decisions can be made on this for

> the

> larger crash.

>

> I think the fundamental reason that Brian and you are disagreeing here is

> because he's looking long term. To him, I suppose, (and for me at least)

> recovery means sustainable and long term improvement. These news stories,

> quoted with Professor Choudhury's statements may give the impression of a

> long bottom in place. And I think this gives the wrong interpretation for

> those long term minded people.

>

> Best regards,

>

> Vyas Munidas

>

> -

> " cosmologer " <cosmologer

> <SAMVA >

> Monday, September 21, 2009 3:40 PM

> Re: : USA: the recession is " very likely over

>

> Dear Vyas,

>

> Ah, but that is a transit-to-transit aspect. I wasnÂ´t thinking of it

> specifically in relation to the USA. The reports of a bottoming out of the

> economy arrived before any of these aspects took hold. If the posts by you

> and Brian are any indication, these aspects may tend to create doubt about

> the improvement.

>

> Thor

>

> SAMVA , " Vyas Munidas " <munidas@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Thor,

> >

> > In the transit situation Rahu has an increasingly close impact on

> > Saturn,

> > the subperiod lord. Saturn here functions as a Rahu like planet. Rahu

> > also

> > exactly afflicts the transit Sun, and Mercury (the LO3, where Saturn,

> > and

> > the Sun are placed). Saturn also exactly afflicts Mercury. Venus ruling

> > the

> > masses is in the sign Leo, ruled by the Sun, and the Moon ruling the

> > chart

> > is in the Libra, ruled by Virgo. Saturn's influence on natal Jupiter

> > worsens

> > into middle of October. Mercury retrogrades into the influence of natal

> > Saturn.

> >

> > Wherever Rahu or planets which function like Rahu in the chart, we can

> > expect manipulations. The houses aren't afflicted, but their lords are,

> > which is also quite appreciable.

> >

> > Best regards,

> >

> > Vyas Munidas

> >

> > -

> > " Cosmologer " <cosmologer@>

> > <SAMVA >

> > Monday, September 21, 2009 2:01 PM

> > Re: : USA: the recession is " very likely over

> >

> > Dear Vyas,

> >

> > Natal Rahu afflicts the 10th, 2nd, 4th and 6th houses in the SAMVA USA

> > chart, suggesting some scope for manipulation in the affected areas of

> > life.

> > However, at the present time neither transit Rahu or natal Rahu have an

> > appreciable impact in the chart.

> >

> > predicted easing of conditions or improving economic

> > outlook in the USA from August 2009. So far, this prediction has been

> > shown

> > to be correct.

> >

> > Best wishes,

> >

> > Thor

> >

> > ________________________________

> > Vyas Munidas <munidas@>

> > SAMVA

> > Monday, September 21, 2009 5:45:57 PM

> > Re: : USA: the recession is " very likely over

> >

> > Dear Thor,

> >

> > Right now Rahu has a notebale mpact on the USA, and as such these

> > reports

> > coming out should be taken with a grain of salt.

> >

> > Best regards,

> >

> > Vyas Munidas

> >

> > -

> > " Cosmologer " <cosmologer@>

> > <SAMVA >

> > Monday, September 21, 2009 10:34 AM

> > Re: : USA: the recession is " very likely over

> >

> > Hello dear list,

> >

> > Reports confirming a bottom of the recession and recovery ahead are now

> > pouring in from all quarters. President Obama said as much over the

> > weekend

> > although he warned that unemployment would likely continue to rise into

> > 2010, before it begins to get better.

> >

> > Nobel Winner Krugman Says Ã¢?~End of World PostponedÃ¢?T

> > Sept. 21 (Bloomberg) -- The global economic downturn has probably hit

> > bottom

> > though the recovery will be Ã¢?oslow and painful,Ã¢?ï¿½ said Paul

> > Krugman, the

> > Nobel

> > Prize winning economist. Ã¢?oThe end of the world appears to have been

> > postponed,Ã¢?ï¿½ Krugman, a professor at Princeton University, said at a

> > seminar

> > in Helsinki today. The world economy Ã¢?odoes not appear to be falling

> > into

> > an

> > abyss but is stillÃ¢?ï¿½ in trouble. The outlook is Ã¢?overy fuzzyÃ¢?T

> > and a

> > W-shaped

> > recovery may become U-shaped.

> > http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087 & sid=ap6aPBj59zLc

> >

> > U.S. Economy Will Add Jobs by End of This Year, Maki Says

> > Sept. 21 (Bloomberg) -- The U.S. economy will add jobs by the end of

> > this

> > year, said Dean Maki, chief U.S. economist at Barclays Capital Inc. in

> > New

> > York. The unemployment rate will Ã¢?opeak slightly below 10

> > percent,Ã¢?ï¿½

> > Maki said

> > today in an interview on Bloomberg Radio. Ã¢?oWe donÃ¢?Tt think

> > thereÃ¢?Ts a

> > lot left

> > to go.Ã¢?ï¿½ In August, the rate reached a quarter-century high of 9.7

> > percent.

> > After losing jobs every month since December 2007, Ã¢?opayroll growth

> > turns

> > positiveÃ¢?ï¿½ within three months, Maki said. September, however, will

> > show

> > another net loss in non-farm payrolls, he said.

> > http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087 & sid=a90t8ybOKLSo

> >

> > Leading economic indicators rise in August

> > DJI 9,755.35 -64.85

> > AP BusinessÃ¢? " 30 mins ago

> > NEW YORK Ã¢? " A private research group's forecast of economic activity

> > rose

> > in

> > August for the fifth straight month, the latest sign the recession has

> > ended. The Conference Board says its index of leading indicators rose

> > 0.6

> > percent in August. That follows a 0.9 percent gain in July revised up

> > from

> > 0.6 percent. Economists surveyed by Thomson Reuters expected a 0.7

> > percent

> > gain last month. The indicators are designed to project economic

> > activity

> > in

> > the next three to six months. Five of the 10 that comprise the index

> > increased in August, including stock prices and building permits.

> > http://news./s/ap/20090921/ap_on_bi_ge/us_economy

> >

> > Thor

> >

> > ________________________________

> > cosmologer <cosmologer@>

> > SAMVA

> > Friday, September 18, 2009 10:34:59 PM

> > Re: USA: the recession is " very likely over

> >

> > PS Some more interesting information, although a few weeks old.

> >

> > Recovery arriving quicker than expected but activity will remain weak,

> > says

> > OECD

> > 03/09/2009 - Recovery from the global recession is likely to arrive

> > earlier

> > than had been expected a few months ago but the pace of activity will

> > remain

> > weak well into next year, according the OECD's latest Interim Economic

> > Assessment.

> > Governments will need to continue to stimulate their economies as rising

> > unemployment and weak housing markets continue to dampen private demand.

> > The

> > current exceptionally low interest rates should remain in force for the

> > time

> > being, the assessment adds. The OECD forecasts economic growth across

> > the

> > Group of Seven countries to fall by 3.7% this year, a less brutal

> > contraction than the 4.1% drop projected in June 2009. The latest GDP

> > forecasts for this year provide slightly improved outlooks for Japan and

> > the

> > Euro area and an unchanged overall projection for the US. The lower

> > annual

> > growth projection for the UK this year is due to downward revisions to

> > GDP

> > in the final quarter of last year and first quarter of 2009.

> >

http://www.oecd.org/document/25/0,3343,en_2649_34109_43605657_1_1_1_37443,00.htm\

l

> >

> > SAMVA , Cosmologer <cosmologer@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Hello dear list members,

> > > Ãf,

> > > The prediction by for the USÃf, economy to begin to

> > > show

> > > signs of recovery in September based on the SAMVA USA chart (Perpetual

> > > Union) has come true. That said, the recoveryÃf, is also expected to

> > > remain

> > > sluggish in the Saturn sub-period until 2012.

> > > Ãf,

> > > The data and analysis is convincing on this point of recovery having

> > > begun. One report states

> > > " The data this week clearly supported Federal Reserve Chairman Ben

> > > BernankeÃfÂ¢Ã¢,Â¬Ã¢ " Â¢s statement that the recession is " very likely

> > > over. "

> > > Ãf,

> > > Again, congratulations are in order for 's accurate

> > > prediction, both about the nature of the event as well as its

> > > timing.Ãf,

> > > WhileÃf, aÃf, remarkable feat, it is also what we have come to expect

> > > ofÃf,

> > > the

> > > Systems' Approach.

> > >

> > > At the same time, the coming weeks are likely to be tense, with

> > > increased

> > > volatility likely in financial markets.

> > > Ãf,

> > > Thor

> > >

> >

> > ---

> >

September 22, 2009

Dear Vyas,

All human beings are, to differing degrees, vulnerable to attachments, including to points of view, etc. So, let us all be mindful to keep such tendencies in check in order to arrive at the truest assessment.

The SA reading of transit/period influences in the SAMVA USA chart should now be clear. As before, predictions are presented and they will stand or fall based on their intrinsic merit.

We can now focus on following the events.

Best wishes,

Thor

Vyas Munidas <muni>SAMVA Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 12:29:00 PMRe: : USA: the recession is "very likely overDear Thor,I was speaking in general to news stories circulating at this time in the USA. We have to see all angles and be open to any possibilities with minimum bias.Best regards,Vyas Munidas- "cosmologer" <cosmologer<SAMVA >Tuesday, September 22, 2009 8:24 AMRe:

: USA: the recession is "very likely overPS One spelling correction. The word 'threat' should, of course, be 'thread' (as in discussion thread.SAMVA , Cosmologer <cosmologer wrote:>> Dear Vyas,>> Why would a new administration cover up for the sins of the last one?>> That said, let us end this threat before it becomes a burden for us andÂ > the list members.>> Thor>>>>> ________________________________> Vyas Munidas <muni>> SAMVA > Tuesday, September 22, 2009 12:09:56 PM> Re: : USA: the recession is "very likely over>> Dear

Thor,>> We can also take the same idea for the news stories coming out in the > nation> when manipulations are indicated. Some things are exposed, and others> circulate.>>> Best regards,>> Vyas Munidas>> - > "Cosmologer" <cosmologer> <SAMVA >> Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:31 AM> Re: : USA: the recession is "very likely over>>> Hello dear list members,>> Here is a story which shows how the manipulative tendencies of Rahu or 8th> lord can manifest. First, these influences can produces strong urges which> the individual feels a need to satisfy without consideration for the > impact> on others or in contravention

of social norms. The needs compel the> individual to deceive others as necessary. Normally, the mental deception> begins with one self. The ruse is then extended to others and pursued > until> it is discovered, often becoming quite elaborate before being discovered. > A> rise is then followed by a humiliating and painful fall. The Greek> tragedies, including the Illiyad and Odyssey of Homer, were built on a> similar theme, based on the hubris of individuals who seek worldly power > or> the satisifaction of personal desires, with a good amount of human> arrogance, resulting in a tragic fall or painful experiences.>> Edwards asked aide to claim paternity, sources say> updated 2 hours, 48 minutes ago> RALEIGH, North Carolina (CNN) -- Former Democratic presidential hopeful > John> Edwards talked a campaign aide into claiming he fathered a

child born to> Edwards' onetime mistress, sources familiar with the issue said Monday.> Andrew Young, former aide to Sen. John Edwards, claims Edwards knew all> along his mistress was carrying his child. Edwards admitted to his affair> with Rielle Hunter in August 2008 after months of denials, but said he > could> not have been the father of Hunter's daughter, who was born the previous> February. Former Edwards staffer Andrew Young has said he was the girl's> father -- but has recanted and says he made it because he believed in> Edwards, lawyers and others familiar with the matter told CNN.> http://edition.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/22/edwards.affair/index.html>> Thor>>>>>> ________________________________> Cosmologer <cosmologer> SAMVA > Tuesday, September 22, 2009 7:18:06 AM> Re: : USA: the recession is "very likely over>>>>> Hello dear Vyas,>> List members may make use of the following studies of the SA astrology of> the Great Depression.>> SAMVA USA chart: the Moon's nodes and the start of the Great Depression> (December 19, 2007)> http://cosmologer.blogspot.com/2007/12/samva-usa-chart-moons-nodes-and-start.html>> SAMVA USA chart: Bank Holiday of 1933 (January 16, 2008)> http://cosmologer.blogspot.com/2008/01/samva-usa-chart-bank-holiday-of-1933.html>> Importantly, the major period operating was the Rahu period from 1919 to> 1937. It was marked by a rise (Roaring Twenties) and a fall (Great> Depression), which are characteristic influences of Rahu. The

fortunes > were> strongly influenced by the sequence of sub-periods and transits. The major> cataclysm came in the Rahu-Ketu period, which began on October 19, 1929,> when the transit nodal axis was conjunct both the natal nodes and the MEPs> of the 4th and 10th houses.>> As for reporters who can't wait to report on an improvement, there are two> things two keep in mind:> 1) human hope springs eternal> 2) one insight that has given is that an objective> assessment requires removal of attachment from a given situation.>> In other words, the wish for improvement (attachment for earlier booming> period) and a better future (hope) may explain such over-optimistic news> reports rather than some manipulation of people by the government. In this> regard we may also note that with 1 lord Moon exalted in the 11th house,>

American's would generally tend to be an optimistic people. A case of> manipulation of the masses by the government (associated with the natal> influences of 8th lord Saturn's aspect on 2nd lord Sun and Rahu's > affliction> on the 10th house, 2nd house and 4th house and 6th house) is likely to > have> different motivations.>> Thor>>>> ________________________________> Vyas Munidas <muni>> SAMVA > Tuesday, September 22, 2009 1:29:46 AM> Re: : USA: the recession is "very likely over>> Dear Thor,>> List members may find it very illuminating to deeply study the great crash> of 1929, the conditions pre and post, the news stories that were fed right> after the crash,

the sub periods and transits as well. An excerpt from an> article on wikipedia:>> "After the crash, the Dow Jones Industrial Average (DJIA) partially> recovered in November-December 1929 and early 1930, only to reverse and> crash again, reaching a low point of the great bear market in 1932. On > July> 8, 1932 the Dow reached its lowest level of the 20th century and did not> return to pre-1929 levels until 23 November 1954.">> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wall_Street_Crash_of_1929>>> Best regards,>> Vyas Munidas>> - > "Cosmologer" <cosmologer> <SAMVA >> Monday, September 21, 2009 8:08 PM> Re: : USA: the recession is "very likely

over>>> Hello dear Vyas,>> The aspect of natal Rahu in the SAMVA USA chart to transit 8th Saturn in > Leo> in September 2008 was a case of such an aspect having a direct connection > in> the chart. A lot of problems were encountered, including manipulation and> destruction of legitimacy and assets, etc.. At the same time, transit 6th> lord Jupiter in the 6th house was also afflicted by natal Rahu, signalling> the banking crisis. As Jupiter also cast an aspect to transit Saturn, the> destruction of assets and legitimacy was compounded. Tough times indeed -> and a crisis broke out as predicted.>> In this case, the relevance to the USA is far less pronounced. That said,> transit 8th lord Saturn has to do with government communication to the> people. Saturn is in the 3rd house of communication. The aspect from >

transit> Rahu in the 7th house of foreign policy could bring some manipulative> influences to such communication.>> However, keep in mind the trend influences mentioned, and the fact that > the> prediction was based on the relief of prior transit strains. The trend> influences will continue after these brief influences pass. Moreover, the> brief aspect of transit Rahu to transit Saturn doesnÂ´t make the relief> evidenced any less true, especially as it is expected to continue after> these present transit strains pass. An economy is like a large oil tanker.> It takes time to build up speed and when it gets moving, it takes time to> slow down. Some squalls donÂ´t alter that fact.>> Thor>>>> ________________________________> Vyas Munidas <muni>> SAMVA > Monday, September 21, 2009 11:50:25 PM> Re: : USA: the recession is "very likely over>> Dear Thor,>> Correct, and this has been seen and said many times.>> My point is besides this and it stands strong:- when manipulative > influences> are at work, the increased positive news coming out should be questioned. > I> hope that you agree.>>> Best regards,>> Vyas Munidas>> - > "Cosmologer" <cosmologer> <SAMVA >> Monday, September 21, 2009 7:20 PM> Re: : USA: the recession is "very likely over>>> Dear Vyas,>> In

general, the trend in the SAMVA USA chart is as per the dasa-bukhti of> Venus-Saturn, that is for sluggish growth. The entry of transit Saturn > into> Virgo is expected to be associated with some relief.>> Stationary transit afflictions may produce significant events. Hence,when> the station of Rahu at 6Â° Capricorn in aspect to natal Moon at 7Â° 19' > Taurus> lifted in early September, along with the entry of Saturn into Virgo and > 3rd> house, and out of the aspect of natal Saturn, some relief was expected. > Sure> enough, some relief was reported in the newspapers. The number of such > news> accounts has been continuous since and that is what is important at the> national level. This is why I have shared those news stories on the list.> They confirm the prediction.>> As for the transit-to-transit aspect of Rahu in early

Capricorn to Saturn,> Sun and Mercury in early Virgo is not strongly linked into the SAMVA USA> chart. However, this transit will surely add to other tensions associated> with e.g. the aspect of tr Saturn and tr Ketu to natal Jupiter in the > chart,> etc. and more so, as you point out, as Saturn is sub-period lord.> Importantly, as those aspects aren't stationary, their influence will be> short lived.>> Only the aspect of tr Jupiter to natal Sun is stationary at present and> hence its influence will be most pronounced. Fortunately, for the USA, the> natal Sun is strong and thus the influence is mostly a 6th house type > strain> on its indications manifesting mostly in strain having to do with 7th > house> matters.>> Finally, the present transit Rahu affliction is not linked into natal> placements in the USA chart, hence the

influences associated with this> planet are not expected to be strongly felt in the national life. That > said,> the transit-to-transit influences will be there for a few weeks, adding to> the concerns linked to the other adverse transits earlier mentioned.>> Thor>>>> ________________________________> Vyas Munidas <muni>> SAMVA > Monday, September 21, 2009 9:38:21 PM> Re: : USA: the recession is "very likely over>> My dear Thor,>> My point re: news coming out when manipulative factors are heavy, have> strong astrological backing by SA and is therefore noteworthy. > Practitioners> of SA can choose to accept or deny it per their personal

understanding.>>> Best regards,>> Vyas Munidas>>> - > "Cosmologer" <cosmologer> <SAMVA >> Monday, September 21, 2009 5:12 PM> Re: : USA: the recession is "very likely over>>> Dear Vyas,>> I donÂ´t see the value of going into semantics concerning "long bottoms" > or> personal views on the soundness of the capitalist system, etc.. I am > simply> interested in analysing the SA astrology of the SAMVA USA chart, based on> the required understanding of the chart and the mundane phenomena under> study.>> Most economists just focus on the measurements at hand. Sure, they may get> some very important things

completely wrong, such as the extent of risk > and> overleverage in the financial system. In general, however, they just > report> and draw conclusions from the data being tabulated and released. Krugman > was> just reacting to the incoming data. It was changing his view of what is> going on in the economy.>> Sure, the USA has had many financial crisis in its history, and, you are> right, they can take a long time to work themselves out. And this one will> likely do that too. In fact, has warned that the coming> weeks may see setbacks in financial markets due to the difficult transits.> However, long term, based on the Venus-Saturn period, in general, he sees > a> sluggish recovery. Of course, as I have mentioned before, there are some> intense aspects for the next twelve months>> - tr stationary 6th lord

Jupiter conjunct natal 2nd lord Sun (september -> november 2009)> - tr stationary 8th lord Saturn aspects natal 10th lord Mars (december> 2009-february 2010)> - tr stationary Rahu afflicts natal Rahu and tr Ketu afflicts natal Ketu> (summer 2010)> - tr Saturn opposite tr Jupiter, while both aspect natal Jupiter (summer> 2010)>> These aspects will have their own influence at these times, which will> overtake the trend influences to the extent that the natal> strength/weakeness of the planets allows.>> Thor>>>>>> ________________________________> Vyas Munidas <muni>> SAMVA > Monday, September 21, 2009 8:38:27 PM> Re: : USA: the recession is "very likely

over>> Dear Thor,>> Professor Choudhury made his prediction based on the increase of planetary> strength and the removal of key afflictions. And this was the trigger for> some so-called recovery news. Now the news is increasing when things are> getting more difficult.>> It's up to you how you choose to judge this. For me, if I know the chart > of> someone who is trying to sell me a story, and I know that the manipulative> factors are at play, I tend not to buy it. We have the USA's chart.>> Doubt about improvement is seen from the chart.>> Can the stock market continue to rally from here? Of course it can! Such > is> the nature of greed and feeding optimistic stories into the pool. The 1929> stock market crash took years to unravel and there were lots of good news> coming out after the initial fallout. The health of

the US economy can > only> truly improve if the right infrastructure is put it - this can take many,> many years. These problems won't just vanish by printing more money or > good> news. If you examine the reasons why the stock market has improved, you'll> see that it's because of cutbacks and good old fashioned greed. In the > short> term, yes, full recovery! And many bad decisions can be made on this for > the> larger crash.>> I think the fundamental reason that Brian and you are disagreeing here is> because he's looking long term. To him, I suppose, (and for me at least)> recovery means sustainable and long term improvement. These news stories,> quoted with Professor Choudhury's statements may give the impression of a> long bottom in place. And I think this gives the wrong interpretation for> those long term minded

people.>>> Best regards,>> Vyas Munidas>> - > "cosmologer" <cosmologer> <SAMVA >> Monday, September 21, 2009 3:40 PM> Re: : USA: the recession is "very likely over>>> Dear Vyas,>> Ah, but that is a transit-to-transit aspect. I wasnÂ´t thinking of it> specifically in relation to the USA. The reports of a bottoming out of the> economy arrived before any of these aspects took hold. If the posts by you> and Brian are any indication, these aspects may tend to create doubt about> the improvement.>> Thor>> SAMVA , "Vyas

Munidas" <munidas@> wrote:> >> > Dear Thor,> >> > In the transit situation Rahu has an increasingly close impact on > > Saturn,> > the subperiod lord. Saturn here functions as a Rahu like planet. Rahu > > also> > exactly afflicts the transit Sun, and Mercury (the LO3, where Saturn, > > and> > the Sun are placed). Saturn also exactly afflicts Mercury. Venus ruling> > the> > masses is in the sign Leo, ruled by the Sun, and the Moon ruling the > > chart> > is in the Libra, ruled by Virgo. Saturn's influence on natal Jupiter> > worsens> > into middle of October. Mercury retrogrades into the influence of natal> > Saturn.> >> > Wherever Rahu or planets which function like Rahu in the chart, we can> > expect manipulations. The houses aren't afflicted, but

their lords are,> > which is also quite appreciable.> >> >> > Best regards,> >> > Vyas Munidas> >> > - > > "Cosmologer" <cosmologer@>> > <SAMVA >> > Monday, September 21, 2009 2:01 PM> > Re: : USA: the recession is "very likely over> >> >> > Dear Vyas,> >> > Natal Rahu afflicts the 10th, 2nd, 4th and 6th houses in the SAMVA USA> > chart, suggesting some scope for manipulation in the affected areas of> > life.> > However, at the present time neither transit Rahu or natal Rahu have an> > appreciable impact in the chart.> >> > predicted easing of

conditions or improving economic> > outlook in the USA from August 2009. So far, this prediction has been> > shown> > to be correct.> >> > Best wishes,> >> > Thor> >> >> >> >> > ________________________________> > Vyas Munidas <munidas@>> > SAMVA > > Monday, September 21, 2009 5:45:57 PM> > Re: : USA: the recession is "very likely over> >> > Dear Thor,> >> > Right now Rahu has a notebale mpact on the USA, and as such these > > reports> > coming out should be taken with a grain of salt.> >> >> > Best regards,> >> > Vyas Munidas> >> >

- > > "Cosmologer" <cosmologer@>> > <SAMVA >> > Monday, September 21, 2009 10:34 AM> > Re: : USA: the recession is "very likely over> >> >> > Hello dear list,> >> > Reports confirming a bottom of the recession and recovery ahead are now> > pouring in from all quarters. President Obama said as much over the> > weekend> > although he warned that unemployment would likely continue to rise into> > 2010, before it begins to get better.> >> > Nobel Winner Krugman Says Ã¢?~End of World PostponedÃ¢?T> > Sept. 21 (Bloomberg) -- The global economic downturn has probably hit> > bottom> > though the recovery will be

Ã¢?oslow and painful,Ã¢?ï¿½ said Paul > > Krugman, the> > Nobel> > Prize winning economist. Ã¢?oThe end of the world appears to have been> > postponed,Ã¢?ï¿½ Krugman, a professor at Princeton University, said at a> > seminar> > in Helsinki today. The world economy Ã¢?odoes not appear to be falling > > into> > an> > abyss but is stillÃ¢?ï¿½ in trouble. The outlook is Ã¢?overy fuzzyÃ¢?T > > and a> > W-shaped> > recovery may become U-shaped.> > http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087 & sid=ap6aPBj59zLc> >> > U.S. Economy Will Add Jobs by End of This Year, Maki Says> > Sept. 21 (Bloomberg) -- The U.S. economy will add jobs by the end of > > this> > year, said Dean Maki, chief U.S. economist at Barclays Capital Inc. in > > New>

> York. The unemployment rate will Ã¢?opeak slightly below 10 > > percent,Ã¢?ï¿½> > Maki said> > today in an interview on Bloomberg Radio. Ã¢?oWe donÃ¢?Tt think > > thereÃ¢?Ts a> > lot left> > to go.Ã¢?ï¿½ In August, the rate reached a quarter-century high of 9.7> > percent.> > After losing jobs every month since December 2007, Ã¢?opayroll growth > > turns> > positiveÃ¢?ï¿½ within three months, Maki said. September, however, will > > show> > another net loss in non-farm payrolls, he said.> > http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087 & sid=a90t8ybOKLSo> >> > Leading economic indicators rise in August> > DJI 9,755.35 -64.85> > AP BusinessÃ¢?" 30 mins ago> > NEW YORK Ã¢?" A private research group's forecast of economic activity >

> rose> > in> > August for the fifth straight month, the latest sign the recession has> > ended. The Conference Board says its index of leading indicators rose > > 0.6> > percent in August. That follows a 0.9 percent gain in July revised up > > from> > 0.6 percent. Economists surveyed by Thomson Reuters expected a 0.7 > > percent> > gain last month. The indicators are designed to project economic > > activity> > in> > the next three to six months. Five of the 10 that comprise the index> > increased in August, including stock prices and building permits.> > http://news./s/ap/20090921/ap_on_bi_ge/us_economy> >> > Thor> >> >> >> >> > ________________________________> > cosmologer <cosmologer@>> > SAMVA > > Friday, September 18, 2009 10:34:59 PM> > Re: USA: the recession is "very likely over> >> > PS Some more interesting information, although a few weeks old.> >> > Recovery arriving quicker than expected but activity will remain weak,> > says> > OECD> > 03/09/2009 - Recovery from the global recession is likely to arrive> > earlier> > than had been expected a few months ago but the pace of activity will> > remain> > weak well into next year, according the OECD's latest Interim Economic> > Assessment.> > Governments will need to continue to stimulate their economies as rising> > unemployment and weak housing markets continue to dampen private demand.> > The>

> current exceptionally low interest rates should remain in force for the> > time> > being, the assessment adds. The OECD forecasts economic growth across > > the> > Group of Seven countries to fall by 3.7% this year, a less brutal> > contraction than the 4.1% drop projected in June 2009. The latest GDP> > forecasts for this year provide slightly improved outlooks for Japan and> > the> > Euro area and an unchanged overall projection for the US. The lower > > annual> > growth projection for the UK this year is due to downward revisions to > > GDP> > in the final quarter of last year and first quarter of 2009.> > http://www.oecd.org/document/25/0,3343,en_2649_34109_43605657_1_1_1_37443,00.html> >> > SAMVA , Cosmologer <cosmologer@> wrote:> > >> > > Hello dear list members,> > > Ãf,> > > The prediction by for the USÃf, economy to begin to> > > show> > > signs of recovery in September based on the SAMVA USA chart (Perpetual> > > Union) has come true. That said, the recoveryÃf, is also expected to> > > remain> > > sluggish in the Saturn sub-period until 2012.> > > Ãf,> > > The data and analysis is convincing on this point of recovery having> > > begun. One report states> > > "The data this week clearly supported Federal Reserve Chairman Ben> > > BernankeÃfÂ¢Ã¢,Â¬Ã¢"Â¢s statement that the recession is "very likely > > > over."> > > Ãf,> >

> Again, congratulations are in order for 's accurate> > > prediction, both about the nature of the event as well as its > > > timing.Ãf,> > > WhileÃf, aÃf, remarkable feat, it is also what we have come to expect > > > ofÃf,> > > the> > > Systems' Approach.> > >> > > At the same time, the coming weeks are likely to be tense, with> > > increased> > > volatility likely in financial markets.> > > Ãf,> > > Thor> > >> >> >> >> >> > ---> >> >

September 22, 2009

Dear Thor,

Yes. And give it some time, and it will become clearer and clearer.

Best regards,

Vyas Munidas

-

" Cosmologer " <cosmologer

Tuesday, September 22, 2009 8:57 AM

Re: : USA: the recession is " very likely over

Dear Vyas,

All human beings are, to differing degrees, vulnerable to attachments,

including to points of view, etc. So, let us all be mindful to keep such

tendencies in check in order to arrive at the truest assessment.

The SA reading of transit/period influences in the SAMVA USA chart should

now be clear. As before, predictions are presented and they will stand or

fall based on their intrinsic merit.

We can now focus on following the events.

Best wishes,

Thor

________________________________

Vyas Munidas <muni>

SAMVA

Tuesday, September 22, 2009 12:29:00 PM

Re: : USA: the recession is " very likely over

Dear Thor,

I was speaking in general to news stories circulating at this time in the

USA. We have to see all angles and be open to any possibilities with minimum

bias.

Best regards,

Vyas Munidas

-

" cosmologer " <cosmologer

Tuesday, September 22, 2009 8:24 AM

Re: : USA: the recession is " very likely over

PS One spelling correction. The word 'threat' should, of course, be 'thread'

(as in discussion thread.

SAMVA , Cosmologer <cosmologer wrote:

>

> Dear Vyas,

>

> Why would a new administration cover up for the sins of the last one?

>

> That said, let us end this threat before it becomes a burden for us andÂ

> the list members.

>

> Thor

>

> ________________________________

> Vyas Munidas <muni>

> SAMVA

> Tuesday, September 22, 2009 12:09:56 PM

> Re: : USA: the recession is " very likely over

>

> Dear Thor,

>

> We can also take the same idea for the news stories coming out in the

> nation

> when manipulations are indicated. Some things are exposed, and others

> circulate.

>

> Best regards,

>

> Vyas Munidas

>

> -

> " Cosmologer " <cosmologer

> <SAMVA >

> Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:31 AM

> Re: : USA: the recession is " very likely over

>

> Hello dear list members,

>

> Here is a story which shows how the manipulative tendencies of Rahu or 8th

> lord can manifest. First, these influences can produces strong urges which

> the individual feels a need to satisfy without consideration for the

> impact

> on others or in contravention of social norms. The needs compel the

> individual to deceive others as necessary. Normally, the mental deception

> begins with one self. The ruse is then extended to others and pursued

> until

> it is discovered, often becoming quite elaborate before being discovered.

> A

> rise is then followed by a humiliating and painful fall. The Greek

> tragedies, including the Illiyad and Odyssey of Homer, were built on a

> similar theme, based on the hubris of individuals who seek worldly power

> or

> the satisifaction of personal desires, with a good amount of human

> arrogance, resulting in a tragic fall or painful experiences.

>

> Edwards asked aide to claim paternity, sources say

> updated 2 hours, 48 minutes ago

> RALEIGH, North Carolina (CNN) -- Former Democratic presidential hopeful

> John

> Edwards talked a campaign aide into claiming he fathered a child born to

> Edwards' onetime mistress, sources familiar with the issue said Monday.

> Andrew Young, former aide to Sen. John Edwards, claims Edwards knew all

> along his mistress was carrying his child. Edwards admitted to his affair

> with Rielle Hunter in August 2008 after months of denials, but said he

> could

> not have been the father of Hunter's daughter, who was born the previous

> February. Former Edwards staffer Andrew Young has said he was the girl's

> father -- but has recanted and says he made it because he believed in

> Edwards, lawyers and others familiar with the matter told CNN.

> http://edition.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/22/edwards.affair/index.html

>

> Thor

>

> ________________________________

> Cosmologer <cosmologer

> SAMVA

> Tuesday, September 22, 2009 7:18:06 AM

> Re: : USA: the recession is " very likely over

>

> Hello dear Vyas,

>

> List members may make use of the following studies of the SA astrology of

> the Great Depression.

>

> SAMVA USA chart: the Moon's nodes and the start of the Great Depression

> (December 19, 2007)

>

http://cosmologer.blogspot.com/2007/12/samva-usa-chart-moons-nodes-and-start.htm\

l

>

> SAMVA USA chart: Bank Holiday of 1933 (January 16, 2008)

>

http://cosmologer.blogspot.com/2008/01/samva-usa-chart-bank-holiday-of-1933.html

>

> Importantly, the major period operating was the Rahu period from 1919 to

> 1937. It was marked by a rise (Roaring Twenties) and a fall (Great

> Depression), which are characteristic influences of Rahu. The fortunes

> were

> strongly influenced by the sequence of sub-periods and transits. The major

> cataclysm came in the Rahu-Ketu period, which began on October 19, 1929,

> when the transit nodal axis was conjunct both the natal nodes and the MEPs

> of the 4th and 10th houses.

>

> As for reporters who can't wait to report on an improvement, there are two

> things two keep in mind:

> 1) human hope springs eternal

> 2) one insight that has given is that an objective

> assessment requires removal of attachment from a given situation.

>

> In other words, the wish for improvement (attachment for earlier booming

> period) and a better future (hope) may explain such over-optimistic news

> reports rather than some manipulation of people by the government. In this

> regard we may also note that with 1 lord Moon exalted in the 11th house,

> American's would generally tend to be an optimistic people. A case of

> manipulation of the masses by the government (associated with the natal

> influences of 8th lord Saturn's aspect on 2nd lord Sun and Rahu's

> affliction

> on the 10th house, 2nd house and 4th house and 6th house) is likely to

> have

> different motivations.

>

> Thor

>

> ________________________________

> Vyas Munidas <muni>

> SAMVA

> Tuesday, September 22, 2009 1:29:46 AM

> Re: : USA: the recession is " very likely over

>

> Dear Thor,

>

> List members may find it very illuminating to deeply study the great crash

> of 1929, the conditions pre and post, the news stories that were fed right

> after the crash, the sub periods and transits as well. An excerpt from an

> article on wikipedia:

>

> " After the crash, the Dow Jones Industrial Average (DJIA) partially

> recovered in November-December 1929 and early 1930, only to reverse and

> crash again, reaching a low point of the great bear market in 1932. On

> July

> 8, 1932 the Dow reached its lowest level of the 20th century and did not

> return to pre-1929 levels until 23 November 1954. "

>

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wall_Street_Crash_of_1929

>

> Best regards,

>

> Vyas Munidas

>

> -

> " Cosmologer " <cosmologer

> <SAMVA >

> Monday, September 21, 2009 8:08 PM

> Re: : USA: the recession is " very likely over

>

> Hello dear Vyas,

>

> The aspect of natal Rahu in the SAMVA USA chart to transit 8th Saturn in

> Leo

> in September 2008 was a case of such an aspect having a direct connection

> in

> the chart. A lot of problems were encountered, including manipulation and

> destruction of legitimacy and assets, etc.. At the same time, transit 6th

> lord Jupiter in the 6th house was also afflicted by natal Rahu, signalling

> the banking crisis. As Jupiter also cast an aspect to transit Saturn, the

> destruction of assets and legitimacy was compounded. Tough times indeed -

> and a crisis broke out as predicted.

>

> In this case, the relevance to the USA is far less pronounced. That said,

> transit 8th lord Saturn has to do with government communication to the

> people. Saturn is in the 3rd house of communication. The aspect from

> transit

> Rahu in the 7th house of foreign policy could bring some manipulative

> influences to such communication.

>

> However, keep in mind the trend influences mentioned, and the fact that

> the

> prediction was based on the relief of prior transit strains. The trend

> influences will continue after these brief influences pass. Moreover, the

> brief aspect of transit Rahu to transit Saturn doesnÂ´t make the relief

> evidenced any less true, especially as it is expected to continue after

> these present transit strains pass. An economy is like a large oil tanker.

> It takes time to build up speed and when it gets moving, it takes time to

> slow down. Some squalls donÂ´t alter that fact.

>

> Thor

>

> ________________________________

> Vyas Munidas <muni>

> SAMVA

> Monday, September 21, 2009 11:50:25 PM

> Re: : USA: the recession is " very likely over

>

> Dear Thor,

>

> Correct, and this has been seen and said many times.

>

> My point is besides this and it stands strong:- when manipulative

> influences

> are at work, the increased positive news coming out should be questioned.

> I

> hope that you agree.

>

> Best regards,

>

> Vyas Munidas

>

> -

> " Cosmologer " <cosmologer

> <SAMVA >

> Monday, September 21, 2009 7:20 PM

> Re: : USA: the recession is " very likely over

>

> Dear Vyas,

>

> In general, the trend in the SAMVA USA chart is as per the dasa-bukhti of

> Venus-Saturn, that is for sluggish growth. The entry of transit Saturn

> into

> Virgo is expected to be associated with some relief.

>

> Stationary transit afflictions may produce significant events. Hence,when

> the station of Rahu at 6Â° Capricorn in aspect to natal Moon at 7Â° 19'

> Taurus

> lifted in early September, along with the entry of Saturn into Virgo and

> 3rd

> house, and out of the aspect of natal Saturn, some relief was expected.

> Sure

> enough, some relief was reported in the newspapers. The number of such

> news

> accounts has been continuous since and that is what is important at the

> national level. This is why I have shared those news stories on the list.

> They confirm the prediction.

>

> As for the transit-to-transit aspect of Rahu in early Capricorn to Saturn,

> Sun and Mercury in early Virgo is not strongly linked into the SAMVA USA

> chart. However, this transit will surely add to other tensions associated

> with e.g. the aspect of tr Saturn and tr Ketu to natal Jupiter in the

> chart,

> etc. and more so, as you point out, as Saturn is sub-period lord.

> Importantly, as those aspects aren't stationary, their influence will be

> short lived.

>

> Only the aspect of tr Jupiter to natal Sun is stationary at present and

> hence its influence will be most pronounced. Fortunately, for the USA, the

> natal Sun is strong and thus the influence is mostly a 6th house type

> strain

> on its indications manifesting mostly in strain having to do with 7th

> house

> matters.

>

> Finally, the present transit Rahu affliction is not linked into natal

> placements in the USA chart, hence the influences associated with this

> planet are not expected to be strongly felt in the national life. That

> said,

> the transit-to-transit influences will be there for a few weeks, adding to

> the concerns linked to the other adverse transits earlier mentioned.

>

> Thor

>

> ________________________________

> Vyas Munidas <muni>

> SAMVA

> Monday, September 21, 2009 9:38:21 PM

> Re: : USA: the recession is " very likely over

>

> My dear Thor,

>

> My point re: news coming out when manipulative factors are heavy, have

> strong astrological backing by SA and is therefore noteworthy.

> Practitioners

> of SA can choose to accept or deny it per their personal understanding.

>

> Best regards,

>

> Vyas Munidas

>

> -

> " Cosmologer " <cosmologer

> <SAMVA >

> Monday, September 21, 2009 5:12 PM

> Re: : USA: the recession is " very likely over

>

> Dear Vyas,

>

> I donÂ´t see the value of going into semantics concerning " long bottoms "

> or

> personal views on the soundness of the capitalist system, etc.. I am

> simply

> interested in analysing the SA astrology of the SAMVA USA chart, based on

> the required understanding of the chart and the mundane phenomena under

> study.

>

> Most economists just focus on the measurements at hand. Sure, they may get

> some very important things completely wrong, such as the extent of risk

> and

> overleverage in the financial system. In general, however, they just

> report

> and draw conclusions from the data being tabulated and released. Krugman

> was

> just reacting to the incoming data. It was changing his view of what is

> going on in the economy.

>

> Sure, the USA has had many financial crisis in its history, and, you are

> right, they can take a long time to work themselves out. And this one will

> likely do that too. In fact, has warned that the coming

> weeks may see setbacks in financial markets due to the difficult transits.

> However, long term, based on the Venus-Saturn period, in general, he sees

> a

> sluggish recovery. Of course, as I have mentioned before, there are some

> intense aspects for the next twelve months

>

> - tr stationary 6th lord Jupiter conjunct natal 2nd lord Sun (september -

> november 2009)

> - tr stationary 8th lord Saturn aspects natal 10th lord Mars (december

> 2009-february 2010)

> - tr stationary Rahu afflicts natal Rahu and tr Ketu afflicts natal Ketu

> (summer 2010)

> - tr Saturn opposite tr Jupiter, while both aspect natal Jupiter (summer

> 2010)

>

> These aspects will have their own influence at these times, which will

> overtake the trend influences to the extent that the natal

> strength/weakeness of the planets allows.

>

> Thor

>

> ________________________________

> Vyas Munidas <muni>

> SAMVA

> Monday, September 21, 2009 8:38:27 PM

> Re: : USA: the recession is " very likely over

>

> Dear Thor,

>

> Professor Choudhury made his prediction based on the increase of planetary

> strength and the removal of key afflictions. And this was the trigger for

> some so-called recovery news. Now the news is increasing when things are

> getting more difficult.

>

> It's up to you how you choose to judge this. For me, if I know the chart

> of

> someone who is trying to sell me a story, and I know that the manipulative

> factors are at play, I tend not to buy it. We have the USA's chart.

>

> Doubt about improvement is seen from the chart.

>

> Can the stock market continue to rally from here? Of course it can! Such

> is

> the nature of greed and feeding optimistic stories into the pool. The 1929

> stock market crash took years to unravel and there were lots of good news

> coming out after the initial fallout. The health of the US economy can

> only

> truly improve if the right infrastructure is put it - this can take many,

> many years. These problems won't just vanish by printing more money or

> good

> news. If you examine the reasons why the stock market has improved, you'll

> see that it's because of cutbacks and good old fashioned greed. In the

> short

> term, yes, full recovery! And many bad decisions can be made on this for

> the

> larger crash.

>

> I think the fundamental reason that Brian and you are disagreeing here is

> because he's looking long term. To him, I suppose, (and for me at least)

> recovery means sustainable and long term improvement. These news stories,

> quoted with Professor Choudhury's statements may give the impression of a

> long bottom in place. And I think this gives the wrong interpretation for

> those long term minded people.

>

> Best regards,

>

> Vyas Munidas

>

> -

> " cosmologer " <cosmologer

> <SAMVA >

> Monday, September 21, 2009 3:40 PM

> Re: : USA: the recession is " very likely over

>

> Dear Vyas,

>

> Ah, but that is a transit-to-transit aspect. I wasnÂ´t thinking of it

> specifically in relation to the USA. The reports of a bottoming out of the

> economy arrived before any of these aspects took hold. If the posts by you

> and Brian are any indication, these aspects may tend to create doubt about

> the improvement.

>

> Thor

>

> SAMVA , " Vyas Munidas " <munidas@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Thor,

> >

> > In the transit situation Rahu has an increasingly close impact on

> > Saturn,

> > the subperiod lord. Saturn here functions as a Rahu like planet. Rahu

> > also

> > exactly afflicts the transit Sun, and Mercury (the LO3, where Saturn,

> > and

> > the Sun are placed). Saturn also exactly afflicts Mercury. Venus ruling

> > the

> > masses is in the sign Leo, ruled by the Sun, and the Moon ruling the

> > chart

> > is in the Libra, ruled by Virgo. Saturn's influence on natal Jupiter

> > worsens

> > into middle of October. Mercury retrogrades into the influence of natal

> > Saturn.

> >

> > Wherever Rahu or planets which function like Rahu in the chart, we can

> > expect manipulations. The houses aren't afflicted, but their lords are,

> > which is also quite appreciable.

> >

> > Best regards,

> >

> > Vyas Munidas

> >

> > -

> > " Cosmologer " <cosmologer@>

> > <SAMVA >

> > Monday, September 21, 2009 2:01 PM

> > Re: : USA: the recession is " very likely over

> >

> > Dear Vyas,

> >

> > Natal Rahu afflicts the 10th, 2nd, 4th and 6th houses in the SAMVA USA

> > chart, suggesting some scope for manipulation in the affected areas of

> > life.

> > However, at the present time neither transit Rahu or natal Rahu have an

> > appreciable impact in the chart.

> >

> > predicted easing of conditions or improving economic

> > outlook in the USA from August 2009. So far, this prediction has been

> > shown

> > to be correct.

> >

> > Best wishes,

> >

> > Thor

> >

> > ________________________________

> > Vyas Munidas <munidas@>

> > SAMVA

> > Monday, September 21, 2009 5:45:57 PM

> > Re: : USA: the recession is " very likely over

> >

> > Dear Thor,

> >

> > Right now Rahu has a notebale mpact on the USA, and as such these

> > reports

> > coming out should be taken with a grain of salt.

> >

> > Best regards,

> >

> > Vyas Munidas

> >

> > -

> > " Cosmologer " <cosmologer@>

> > <SAMVA >

> > Monday, September 21, 2009 10:34 AM

> > Re: : USA: the recession is " very likely over

> >

> > Hello dear list,

> >

> > Reports confirming a bottom of the recession and recovery ahead are now

> > pouring in from all quarters. President Obama said as much over the

> > weekend

> > although he warned that unemployment would likely continue to rise into

> > 2010, before it begins to get better.

> >

> > Nobel Winner Krugman Says Ã¢?~End of World PostponedÃ¢?T

> > Sept. 21 (Bloomberg) -- The global economic downturn has probably hit

> > bottom

> > though the recovery will be Ã¢?oslow and painful,Ã¢?ï¿½ said Paul

> > Krugman, the

> > Nobel

> > Prize winning economist. Ã¢?oThe end of the world appears to have been

> > postponed,Ã¢?ï¿½ Krugman, a professor at Princeton University, said at a

> > seminar

> > in Helsinki today. The world economy Ã¢?odoes not appear to be falling

> > into

> > an

> > abyss but is stillÃ¢?ï¿½ in trouble. The outlook is Ã¢?overy fuzzyÃ¢?T

> > and a

> > W-shaped

> > recovery may become U-shaped.

> > http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087 & sid=ap6aPBj59zLc

> >

> > U.S. Economy Will Add Jobs by End of This Year, Maki Says

> > Sept. 21 (Bloomberg) -- The U.S. economy will add jobs by the end of

> > this

> > year, said Dean Maki, chief U.S. economist at Barclays Capital Inc. in

> > New

> > York. The unemployment rate will Ã¢?opeak slightly below 10

> > percent,Ã¢?ï¿½

> > Maki said

> > today in an interview on Bloomberg Radio. Ã¢?oWe donÃ¢?Tt think

> > thereÃ¢?Ts a

> > lot left

> > to go.Ã¢?ï¿½ In August, the rate reached a quarter-century high of 9.7

> > percent.

> > After losing jobs every month since December 2007, Ã¢?opayroll growth

> > turns

> > positiveÃ¢?ï¿½ within three months, Maki said. September, however, will

> > show

> > another net loss in non-farm payrolls, he said.

> > http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087 & sid=a90t8ybOKLSo

> >

> > Leading economic indicators rise in August

> > DJI 9,755.35 -64.85

> > AP BusinessÃ¢? " 30 mins ago

> > NEW YORK Ã¢? " A private research group's forecast of economic activity

> > rose

> > in

> > August for the fifth straight month, the latest sign the recession has

> > ended. The Conference Board says its index of leading indicators rose

> > 0.6

> > percent in August. That follows a 0.9 percent gain in July revised up

> > from

> > 0.6 percent. Economists surveyed by Thomson Reuters expected a 0.7

> > percent

> > gain last month. The indicators are designed to project economic

> > activity

> > in

> > the next three to six months. Five of the 10 that comprise the index

> > increased in August, including stock prices and building permits.

> > http://news./s/ap/20090921/ap_on_bi_ge/us_economy

> >

> > Thor

> >

> > ________________________________

> > cosmologer <cosmologer@>

> > SAMVA

> > Friday, September 18, 2009 10:34:59 PM

> > Re: USA: the recession is " very likely over

> >

> > PS Some more interesting information, although a few weeks old.

> >

> > Recovery arriving quicker than expected but activity will remain weak,

> > says

> > OECD

> > 03/09/2009 - Recovery from the global recession is likely to arrive

> > earlier

> > than had been expected a few months ago but the pace of activity will

> > remain

> > weak well into next year, according the OECD's latest Interim Economic

> > Assessment.

> > Governments will need to continue to stimulate their economies as rising

> > unemployment and weak housing markets continue to dampen private demand.

> > The

> > current exceptionally low interest rates should remain in force for the

> > time

> > being, the assessment adds. The OECD forecasts economic growth across

> > the

> > Group of Seven countries to fall by 3.7% this year, a less brutal

> > contraction than the 4.1% drop projected in June 2009. The latest GDP

> > forecasts for this year provide slightly improved outlooks for Japan and

> > the

> > Euro area and an unchanged overall projection for the US. The lower

> > annual

> > growth projection for the UK this year is due to downward revisions to

> > GDP

> > in the final quarter of last year and first quarter of 2009.

> >

http://www.oecd.org/document/25/0,3343,en_2649_34109_43605657_1_1_1_37443,00.htm\

l

> >

> > SAMVA , Cosmologer <cosmologer@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Hello dear list members,

> > > Ãf,

> > > The prediction by for the USÃf, economy to begin to

> > > show

> > > signs of recovery in September based on the SAMVA USA chart (Perpetual

> > > Union) has come true. That said, the recoveryÃf, is also expected to

> > > remain

> > > sluggish in the Saturn sub-period until 2012.

> > > Ãf,

> > > The data and analysis is convincing on this point of recovery having

> > > begun. One report states

> > > " The data this week clearly supported Federal Reserve Chairman Ben

> > > BernankeÃfÂ¢Ã¢,Â¬Ã¢ " Â¢s statement that the recession is " very likely

> > > over. "

> > > Ãf,

> > > Again, congratulations are in order for 's accurate

> > > prediction, both about the nature of the event as well as its

> > > timing.Ãf,

> > > WhileÃf, aÃf, remarkable feat, it is also what we have come to expect

> > > ofÃf,

> > > the

> > > Systems' Approach.

> > >

> > > At the same time, the coming weeks are likely to be tense, with

> > > increased

> > > volatility likely in financial markets.

> > > Ãf,

> > > Thor

> > >

> >

> > ---

> >

September 22, 2009

Dear Vyas,

Predictions are either realised or not.

Thor

Vyas Munidas <muni>SAMVA Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 6:07:07 PMRe: : USA: the recession is "very likely overDear Thor,Yes. And give it some time, and it will become clearer and clearer.Best regards,Vyas Munidas- "Cosmologer" <cosmologer<SAMVA >Tuesday, September 22, 2009 8:57 AMRe: : USA: the recession is "very likely overDear Vyas,All human beings are, to

differing degrees, vulnerable to attachments, including to points of view, etc. So, let us all be mindful to keep such tendencies in check in order to arrive at the truest assessment.The SA reading of transit/period influences in the SAMVA USA chart should now be clear. As before, predictions are presented and they will stand or fall based on their intrinsic merit.We can now focus on following the events.Best wishes,Thor________________________________Vyas Munidas <muni>SAMVA Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 12:29:00 PMRe: : USA: the recession is "very likely overDear Thor,I was speaking in general to news stories circulating at this time

in theUSA. We have to see all angles and be open to any possibilities with minimumbias.Best regards,Vyas Munidas- "cosmologer" <cosmologer<SAMVA >Tuesday, September 22, 2009 8:24 AMRe: : USA: the recession is "very likely overPS One spelling correction. The word 'threat' should, of course, be 'thread'(as in discussion thread.SAMVA , Cosmologer <cosmologer wrote:>> Dear Vyas,>> Why would a new administration cover up for the sins of the last one?>> That said, let us end

this threat before it becomes a burden for us andÂ> the list members.>> Thor>>>>> ________________________________> Vyas Munidas <muni>> SAMVA > Tuesday, September 22, 2009 12:09:56 PM> Re: : USA: the recession is "very likely over>> Dear Thor,>> We can also take the same idea for the news stories coming out in the> nation> when manipulations are indicated. Some things are exposed, and others> circulate.>>> Best regards,>> Vyas Munidas>> - > "Cosmologer" <cosmologer> <SAMVA >> Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:31 AM> Re: : USA: the recession is "very likely over>>> Hello dear list members,>> Here is a story which shows how the manipulative tendencies of Rahu or 8th> lord can manifest. First, these influences can produces strong urges which> the individual feels a need to satisfy without consideration for the> impact> on others or in contravention of social norms. The needs compel the> individual to deceive others as necessary. Normally, the mental deception> begins with one self. The ruse is then extended to others and pursued> until> it is discovered, often becoming quite elaborate before being discovered.> A> rise is then followed by a humiliating and painful fall. The Greek> tragedies, including the Illiyad and

Odyssey of Homer, were built on a> similar theme, based on the hubris of individuals who seek worldly power> or> the satisifaction of personal desires, with a good amount of human> arrogance, resulting in a tragic fall or painful experiences.>> Edwards asked aide to claim paternity, sources say> updated 2 hours, 48 minutes ago> RALEIGH, North Carolina (CNN) -- Former Democratic presidential hopeful> John> Edwards talked a campaign aide into claiming he fathered a child born to> Edwards' onetime mistress, sources familiar with the issue said Monday.> Andrew Young, former aide to Sen. John Edwards, claims Edwards knew all> along his mistress was carrying his child. Edwards admitted to his affair> with Rielle Hunter in August 2008 after months of denials, but said he> could> not have been the father of Hunter's daughter, who was born the

previous> February. Former Edwards staffer Andrew Young has said he was the girl's> father -- but has recanted and says he made it because he believed in> Edwards, lawyers and others familiar with the matter told CNN.> http://edition.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/22/edwards.affair/index.html>> Thor>>>>>> ________________________________> Cosmologer <cosmologer> SAMVA > Tuesday, September 22, 2009 7:18:06 AM> Re: : USA: the recession is "very likely over>>>>> Hello dear Vyas,>> List members may make use of the following studies of the SA astrology of> the Great

Depression.>> SAMVA USA chart: the Moon's nodes and the start of the Great Depression> (December 19, 2007)> http://cosmologer.blogspot.com/2007/12/samva-usa-chart-moons-nodes-and-start.html>> SAMVA USA chart: Bank Holiday of 1933 (January 16, 2008)> http://cosmologer.blogspot.com/2008/01/samva-usa-chart-bank-holiday-of-1933.html>> Importantly, the major period operating was the Rahu period from 1919 to> 1937. It was marked by a rise (Roaring Twenties) and a fall (Great> Depression), which are characteristic influences of Rahu. The fortunes> were> strongly influenced by the sequence of sub-periods and transits. The major> cataclysm came in the

Rahu-Ketu period, which began on October 19, 1929,> when the transit nodal axis was conjunct both the natal nodes and the MEPs> of the 4th and 10th houses.>> As for reporters who can't wait to report on an improvement, there are two> things two keep in mind:> 1) human hope springs eternal> 2) one insight that has given is that an objective> assessment requires removal of attachment from a given situation.>> In other words, the wish for improvement (attachment for earlier booming> period) and a better future (hope) may explain such over-optimistic news> reports rather than some manipulation of people by the government. In this> regard we may also note that with 1 lord Moon exalted in the 11th house,> American's would generally tend to be an optimistic people. A case of> manipulation of the masses by the government (associated with

the natal> influences of 8th lord Saturn's aspect on 2nd lord Sun and Rahu's> affliction> on the 10th house, 2nd house and 4th house and 6th house) is likely to> have> different motivations.>> Thor>>>> ________________________________> Vyas Munidas <muni>> SAMVA > Tuesday, September 22, 2009 1:29:46 AM> Re: : USA: the recession is "very likely over>> Dear Thor,>> List members may find it very illuminating to deeply study the great crash> of 1929, the conditions pre and post, the news stories that were fed right> after the crash, the sub periods and transits as well. An excerpt from an> article on wikipedia:>> "After the crash, the Dow Jones

Industrial Average (DJIA) partially> recovered in November-December 1929 and early 1930, only to reverse and> crash again, reaching a low point of the great bear market in 1932. On> July> 8, 1932 the Dow reached its lowest level of the 20th century and did not> return to pre-1929 levels until 23 November 1954.">> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wall_Street_Crash_of_1929>>> Best regards,>> Vyas Munidas>> - > "Cosmologer" <cosmologer> <SAMVA >> Monday, September 21, 2009 8:08 PM> Re: : USA: the recession is "very likely over>>> Hello dear Vyas,>>

The aspect of natal Rahu in the SAMVA USA chart to transit 8th Saturn in> Leo> in September 2008 was a case of such an aspect having a direct connection> in> the chart. A lot of problems were encountered, including manipulation and> destruction of legitimacy and assets, etc.. At the same time, transit 6th> lord Jupiter in the 6th house was also afflicted by natal Rahu, signalling> the banking crisis. As Jupiter also cast an aspect to transit Saturn, the> destruction of assets and legitimacy was compounded. Tough times indeed -> and a crisis broke out as predicted.>> In this case, the relevance to the USA is far less pronounced. That said,> transit 8th lord Saturn has to do with government communication to the> people. Saturn is in the 3rd house of communication. The aspect from> transit> Rahu in the 7th house of foreign policy could bring some

manipulative> influences to such communication.>> However, keep in mind the trend influences mentioned, and the fact that> the> prediction was based on the relief of prior transit strains. The trend> influences will continue after these brief influences pass. Moreover, the> brief aspect of transit Rahu to transit Saturn doesnÂ´t make the relief> evidenced any less true, especially as it is expected to continue after> these present transit strains pass. An economy is like a large oil tanker.> It takes time to build up speed and when it gets moving, it takes time to> slow down. Some squalls donÂ´t alter that fact.>> Thor>>>> ________________________________> Vyas Munidas <muni>> SAMVA > Sent:

Monday, September 21, 2009 11:50:25 PM> Re: : USA: the recession is "very likely over>> Dear Thor,>> Correct, and this has been seen and said many times.>> My point is besides this and it stands strong:- when manipulative> influences> are at work, the increased positive news coming out should be questioned.> I> hope that you agree.>>> Best regards,>> Vyas Munidas>> - > "Cosmologer" <cosmologer> <SAMVA >> Monday, September 21, 2009 7:20 PM> Re: : USA: the recession is "very likely over>>> Dear Vyas,>> In general, the trend in the SAMVA USA chart is as per the dasa-bukhti of>

Venus-Saturn, that is for sluggish growth. The entry of transit Saturn> into> Virgo is expected to be associated with some relief.>> Stationary transit afflictions may produce significant events. Hence,when> the station of Rahu at 6Â° Capricorn in aspect to natal Moon at 7Â° 19'> Taurus> lifted in early September, along with the entry of Saturn into Virgo and> 3rd> house, and out of the aspect of natal Saturn, some relief was expected.> Sure> enough, some relief was reported in the newspapers. The number of such> news> accounts has been continuous since and that is what is important at the> national level. This is why I have shared those news stories on the list.> They confirm the prediction.>> As for the transit-to-transit aspect of Rahu in early Capricorn to Saturn,> Sun and Mercury in early Virgo is not strongly linked

into the SAMVA USA> chart. However, this transit will surely add to other tensions associated> with e.g. the aspect of tr Saturn and tr Ketu to natal Jupiter in the> chart,> etc. and more so, as you point out, as Saturn is sub-period lord.> Importantly, as those aspects aren't stationary, their influence will be> short lived.>> Only the aspect of tr Jupiter to natal Sun is stationary at present and> hence its influence will be most pronounced. Fortunately, for the USA, the> natal Sun is strong and thus the influence is mostly a 6th house type> strain> on its indications manifesting mostly in strain having to do with 7th> house> matters.>> Finally, the present transit Rahu affliction is not linked into natal> placements in the USA chart, hence the influences associated with this> planet are not expected to be strongly felt in the

national life. That> said,> the transit-to-transit influences will be there for a few weeks, adding to> the concerns linked to the other adverse transits earlier mentioned.>> Thor>>>> ________________________________> Vyas Munidas <muni>> SAMVA > Monday, September 21, 2009 9:38:21 PM> Re: : USA: the recession is "very likely over>> My dear Thor,>> My point re: news coming out when manipulative factors are heavy, have> strong astrological backing by SA and is therefore noteworthy.> Practitioners> of SA can choose to accept or deny it per their personal understanding.>>> Best regards,>> Vyas Munidas>>> ----- Original

Message ----- > "Cosmologer" <cosmologer> <SAMVA >> Monday, September 21, 2009 5:12 PM> Re: : USA: the recession is "very likely over>>> Dear Vyas,>> I donÂ´t see the value of going into semantics concerning "long bottoms"> or> personal views on the soundness of the capitalist system, etc.. I am> simply> interested in analysing the SA astrology of the SAMVA USA chart, based on> the required understanding of the chart and the mundane phenomena under> study.>> Most economists just focus on the measurements at hand. Sure, they may get> some very important things completely wrong, such as the extent of risk> and> overleverage in the financial system. In general, however,

they just> report> and draw conclusions from the data being tabulated and released. Krugman> was> just reacting to the incoming data. It was changing his view of what is> going on in the economy.>> Sure, the USA has had many financial crisis in its history, and, you are> right, they can take a long time to work themselves out. And this one will> likely do that too. In fact, has warned that the coming> weeks may see setbacks in financial markets due to the difficult transits.> However, long term, based on the Venus-Saturn period, in general, he sees> a> sluggish recovery. Of course, as I have mentioned before, there are some> intense aspects for the next twelve months>> - tr stationary 6th lord Jupiter conjunct natal 2nd lord Sun (september -> november 2009)> - tr stationary 8th lord Saturn aspects natal 10th

lord Mars (december> 2009-february 2010)> - tr stationary Rahu afflicts natal Rahu and tr Ketu afflicts natal Ketu> (summer 2010)> - tr Saturn opposite tr Jupiter, while both aspect natal Jupiter (summer> 2010)>> These aspects will have their own influence at these times, which will> overtake the trend influences to the extent that the natal> strength/weakeness of the planets allows.>> Thor>>>>>> ________________________________> Vyas Munidas <muni>> SAMVA > Monday, September 21, 2009 8:38:27 PM> Re: : USA: the recession is "very likely over>> Dear Thor,>> Professor Choudhury made his prediction based on the increase of planetary>

strength and the removal of key afflictions. And this was the trigger for> some so-called recovery news. Now the news is increasing when things are> getting more difficult.>> It's up to you how you choose to judge this. For me, if I know the chart> of> someone who is trying to sell me a story, and I know that the manipulative> factors are at play, I tend not to buy it. We have the USA's chart.>> Doubt about improvement is seen from the chart.>> Can the stock market continue to rally from here? Of course it can! Such> is> the nature of greed and feeding optimistic stories into the pool. The 1929> stock market crash took years to unravel and there were lots of good news> coming out after the initial fallout. The health of the US economy can> only> truly improve if the right infrastructure is put it - this can take many,> many

years. These problems won't just vanish by printing more money or> good> news. If you examine the reasons why the stock market has improved, you'll> see that it's because of cutbacks and good old fashioned greed. In the> short> term, yes, full recovery! And many bad decisions can be made on this for> the> larger crash.>> I think the fundamental reason that Brian and you are disagreeing here is> because he's looking long term. To him, I suppose, (and for me at least)> recovery means sustainable and long term improvement. These news stories,> quoted with Professor Choudhury's statements may give the impression of a> long bottom in place. And I think this gives the wrong interpretation for> those long term minded people.>>> Best regards,>> Vyas Munidas>> - > "cosmologer"

<cosmologer> <SAMVA >> Monday, September 21, 2009 3:40 PM> Re: : USA: the recession is "very likely over>>> Dear Vyas,>> Ah, but that is a transit-to-transit aspect. I wasnÂ´t thinking of it> specifically in relation to the USA. The reports of a bottoming out of the> economy arrived before any of these aspects took hold. If the posts by you> and Brian are any indication, these aspects may tend to create doubt about> the improvement.>> Thor>> SAMVA , "Vyas Munidas" <munidas@> wrote:> >> > Dear Thor,> >> > In the transit situation Rahu has an increasingly

close impact on> > Saturn,> > the subperiod lord. Saturn here functions as a Rahu like planet. Rahu> > also> > exactly afflicts the transit Sun, and Mercury (the LO3, where Saturn,> > and> > the Sun are placed). Saturn also exactly afflicts Mercury. Venus ruling> > the> > masses is in the sign Leo, ruled by the Sun, and the Moon ruling the> > chart> > is in the Libra, ruled by Virgo. Saturn's influence on natal Jupiter> > worsens> > into middle of October. Mercury retrogrades into the influence of natal> > Saturn.> >> > Wherever Rahu or planets which function like Rahu in the chart, we can> > expect manipulations. The houses aren't afflicted, but their lords are,> > which is also quite appreciable.> >> >> > Best regards,> >> > Vyas

Munidas> >> > - > > "Cosmologer" <cosmologer@>> > <SAMVA >> > Monday, September 21, 2009 2:01 PM> > Re: : USA: the recession is "very likely over> >> >> > Dear Vyas,> >> > Natal Rahu afflicts the 10th, 2nd, 4th and 6th houses in the SAMVA USA> > chart, suggesting some scope for manipulation in the affected areas of> > life.> > However, at the present time neither transit Rahu or natal Rahu have an> > appreciable impact in the chart.> >> > predicted easing of conditions or improving economic> > outlook in the USA from August 2009. So far, this prediction has been> > shown> >

to be correct.> >> > Best wishes,> >> > Thor> >> >> >> >> > ________________________________> > Vyas Munidas <munidas@>> > SAMVA > > Monday, September 21, 2009 5:45:57 PM> > Re: : USA: the recession is "very likely over> >> > Dear Thor,> >> > Right now Rahu has a notebale mpact on the USA, and as such these> > reports> > coming out should be taken with a grain of salt.> >> >> > Best regards,> >> > Vyas Munidas> >> > - > > "Cosmologer" <cosmologer@>> > <SAMVA >> > Monday, September 21, 2009 10:34 AM> > Re: : USA: the recession is "very likely over> >> >> > Hello dear list,> >> > Reports confirming a bottom of the recession and recovery ahead are now> > pouring in from all quarters. President Obama said as much over the> > weekend> > although he warned that unemployment would likely continue to rise into> > 2010, before it begins to get better.> >> > Nobel Winner Krugman Says Ã¢?~End of World PostponedÃ¢?T> > Sept. 21 (Bloomberg) -- The global economic downturn has probably hit> > bottom> > though the recovery will be Ã¢?oslow and painful,Ã¢?ï¿½ said Paul> > Krugman, the> > Nobel> > Prize winning economist. Ã¢?oThe end of

the world appears to have been> > postponed,Ã¢?ï¿½ Krugman, a professor at Princeton University, said at a> > seminar> > in Helsinki today. The world economy Ã¢?odoes not appear to be falling> > into> > an> > abyss but is stillÃ¢?ï¿½ in trouble. The outlook is Ã¢?overy fuzzyÃ¢?T> > and a> > W-shaped> > recovery may become U-shaped.> > http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087 & sid=ap6aPBj59zLc> >> > U.S. Economy Will Add Jobs by End of This Year, Maki Says> > Sept. 21 (Bloomberg) -- The U.S. economy will add jobs by the end of> > this> > year, said Dean Maki, chief U.S. economist at Barclays Capital Inc. in> > New> > York. The unemployment rate will Ã¢?opeak

slightly below 10> > percent,Ã¢?ï¿½> > Maki said> > today in an interview on Bloomberg Radio. Ã¢?oWe donÃ¢?Tt think> > thereÃ¢?Ts a> > lot left> > to go.Ã¢?ï¿½ In August, the rate reached a quarter-century high of 9.7> > percent.> > After losing jobs every month since December 2007, Ã¢?opayroll growth> > turns> > positiveÃ¢?ï¿½ within three months, Maki said. September, however, will> > show> > another net loss in non-farm payrolls, he said.> > http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087 & sid=a90t8ybOKLSo> >> > Leading economic indicators rise in August> > DJI 9,755.35 -64.85> > AP BusinessÃ¢?" 30 mins ago> > NEW YORK Ã¢?" A private research

group's forecast of economic activity> > rose> > in> > August for the fifth straight month, the latest sign the recession has> > ended. The Conference Board says its index of leading indicators rose> > 0.6> > percent in August. That follows a 0.9 percent gain in July revised up> > from> > 0.6 percent. Economists surveyed by Thomson Reuters expected a 0.7> > percent> > gain last month. The indicators are designed to project economic> > activity> > in> > the next three to six months. Five of the 10 that comprise the index> > increased in August, including stock prices and building permits.> > http://news./s/ap/20090921/ap_on_bi_ge/us_economy> >> > Thor> >> >>

>> >> > ________________________________> > cosmologer <cosmologer@>> > SAMVA > > Friday, September 18, 2009 10:34:59 PM> > Re: USA: the recession is "very likely over> >> > PS Some more interesting information, although a few weeks old.> >> > Recovery arriving quicker than expected but activity will remain weak,> > says> > OECD> > 03/09/2009 - Recovery from the global recession is likely to arrive> > earlier> > than had been expected a few months ago but the pace of activity will> > remain> > weak well into next year, according the OECD's latest Interim Economic> > Assessment.> > Governments will need to continue to stimulate

their economies as rising> > unemployment and weak housing markets continue to dampen private demand.> > The> > current exceptionally low interest rates should remain in force for the> > time> > being, the assessment adds. The OECD forecasts economic growth across> > the> > Group of Seven countries to fall by 3.7% this year, a less brutal> > contraction than the 4.1% drop projected in June 2009. The latest GDP> > forecasts for this year provide slightly improved outlooks for Japan and> > the> > Euro area and an unchanged overall projection for the US. The lower> > annual> > growth projection for the UK this year is due to downward revisions to> > GDP> > in the final quarter of last year and first quarter of 2009.> > http://www.oecd.org/document/25/0,3343,en_2649_34109_43605657_1_1_1_37443,00.html> >> > SAMVA , Cosmologer <cosmologer@> wrote:> > >> > > Hello dear list members,> > > Ãf,> > > The prediction by for the USÃf, economy to begin to> > > show> > > signs of recovery in September based on the SAMVA USA chart (Perpetual> > > Union) has come true. That said, the recoveryÃf, is also expected to> > > remain> > > sluggish in the Saturn sub-period until 2012.> > > Ãf,> > > The data and analysis is convincing on this point of recovery having> > > begun. One

report states> > > "The data this week clearly supported Federal Reserve Chairman Ben> > > BernankeÃfÂ¢Ã¢,Â¬Ã¢"Â¢s statement that the recession is "very likely> > > over."> > > Ãf,> > > Again, congratulations are in order for 's accurate> > > prediction, both about the nature of the event as well as its> > > timing.Ãf,> > > WhileÃf, aÃf, remarkable feat, it is also what we have come to expect> > > ofÃf,> > > the> > > Systems' Approach.> > >> > > At the same time, the coming weeks are likely to be tense, with> > > increased> > > volatility likely in financial markets.> > > Ãf,> > > Thor> > >> >> >> >> >> >

---> >> >

September 22, 2009

Dear Thor,

I was referring to the increasing clarity of influences in the USA chart

over time. I am sorry that you misunderstood.

Best regards,

Vyas Munidas

-

" Cosmologer " <cosmologer

Tuesday, September 22, 2009 2:10 PM

Re: : USA: the recession is " very likely over

Dear Vyas,

Predictions are either realised or not.

Thor

________________________________

Vyas Munidas <muni>

SAMVA

Tuesday, September 22, 2009 6:07:07 PM

Re: : USA: the recession is " very likely over

Dear Thor,

Yes. And give it some time, and it will become clearer and clearer.

Best regards,

Vyas Munidas

-

" Cosmologer " <cosmologer

Tuesday, September 22, 2009 8:57 AM

Re: : USA: the recession is " very likely over

Dear Vyas,

All human beings are, to differing degrees, vulnerable to attachments,

including to points of view, etc. So, let us all be mindful to keep such

tendencies in check in order to arrive at the truest assessment.

The SA reading of transit/period influences in the SAMVA USA chart should

now be clear. As before, predictions are presented and they will stand or

fall based on their intrinsic merit.

We can now focus on following the events.

Best wishes,

Thor

________________________________

Vyas Munidas <muni>

SAMVA

Tuesday, September 22, 2009 12:29:00 PM

Re: : USA: the recession is " very likely over

Dear Thor,

I was speaking in general to news stories circulating at this time in the

USA. We have to see all angles and be open to any possibilities with minimum

bias.

Best regards,

Vyas Munidas

-

" cosmologer " <cosmologer

Tuesday, September 22, 2009 8:24 AM

Re: : USA: the recession is " very likely over

PS One spelling correction. The word 'threat' should, of course, be 'thread'

(as in discussion thread.

SAMVA , Cosmologer <cosmologer wrote:

>

> Dear Vyas,

>

> Why would a new administration cover up for the sins of the last one?

>

> That said, let us end this threat before it becomes a burden for us andÂ

> the list members.

>

> Thor

>

> ________________________________

> Vyas Munidas <muni>

> SAMVA

> Tuesday, September 22, 2009 12:09:56 PM

> Re: : USA: the recession is " very likely over

>

> Dear Thor,

>

> We can also take the same idea for the news stories coming out in the

> nation

> when manipulations are indicated. Some things are exposed, and others

> circulate.

>

> Best regards,

>

> Vyas Munidas

>

> -

> " Cosmologer " <cosmologer

> <SAMVA >

> Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:31 AM

> Re: : USA: the recession is " very likely over

>

> Hello dear list members,

>

> Here is a story which shows how the manipulative tendencies of Rahu or 8th

> lord can manifest. First, these influences can produces strong urges which

> the individual feels a need to satisfy without consideration for the

> impact

> on others or in contravention of social norms. The needs compel the

> individual to deceive others as necessary. Normally, the mental deception

> begins with one self. The ruse is then extended to others and pursued

> until

> it is discovered, often becoming quite elaborate before being discovered.

> A

> rise is then followed by a humiliating and painful fall. The Greek

> tragedies, including the Illiyad and Odyssey of Homer, were built on a

> similar theme, based on the hubris of individuals who seek worldly power

> or

> the satisifaction of personal desires, with a good amount of human

> arrogance, resulting in a tragic fall or painful experiences.

>

> Edwards asked aide to claim paternity, sources say

> updated 2 hours, 48 minutes ago

> RALEIGH, North Carolina (CNN) -- Former Democratic presidential hopeful

> John

> Edwards talked a campaign aide into claiming he fathered a child born to

> Edwards' onetime mistress, sources familiar with the issue said Monday.

> Andrew Young, former aide to Sen. John Edwards, claims Edwards knew all

> along his mistress was carrying his child. Edwards admitted to his affair

> with Rielle Hunter in August 2008 after months of denials, but said he

> could

> not have been the father of Hunter's daughter, who was born the previous

> February. Former Edwards staffer Andrew Young has said he was the girl's

> father -- but has recanted and says he made it because he believed in

> Edwards, lawyers and others familiar with the matter told CNN.

> http://edition.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/22/edwards.affair/index.html

>

> Thor

>

> ________________________________

> Cosmologer <cosmologer

> SAMVA

> Tuesday, September 22, 2009 7:18:06 AM

> Re: : USA: the recession is " very likely over

>

> Hello dear Vyas,

>

> List members may make use of the following studies of the SA astrology of

> the Great Depression.

>

> SAMVA USA chart: the Moon's nodes and the start of the Great Depression

> (December 19, 2007)

>

http://cosmologer.blogspot.com/2007/12/samva-usa-chart-moons-nodes-and-start.htm\

l

>

> SAMVA USA chart: Bank Holiday of 1933 (January 16, 2008)

>

http://cosmologer.blogspot.com/2008/01/samva-usa-chart-bank-holiday-of-1933.html

>

> Importantly, the major period operating was the Rahu period from 1919 to

> 1937. It was marked by a rise (Roaring Twenties) and a fall (Great

> Depression), which are characteristic influences of Rahu. The fortunes

> were

> strongly influenced by the sequence of sub-periods and transits. The major

> cataclysm came in the Rahu-Ketu period, which began on October 19, 1929,

> when the transit nodal axis was conjunct both the natal nodes and the MEPs

> of the 4th and 10th houses.

>

> As for reporters who can't wait to report on an improvement, there are two

> things two keep in mind:

> 1) human hope springs eternal

> 2) one insight that has given is that an objective

> assessment requires removal of attachment from a given situation.

>

> In other words, the wish for improvement (attachment for earlier booming

> period) and a better future (hope) may explain such over-optimistic news

> reports rather than some manipulation of people by the government. In this

> regard we may also note that with 1 lord Moon exalted in the 11th house,

> American's would generally tend to be an optimistic people. A case of

> manipulation of the masses by the government (associated with the natal

> influences of 8th lord Saturn's aspect on 2nd lord Sun and Rahu's

> affliction

> on the 10th house, 2nd house and 4th house and 6th house) is likely to

> have

> different motivations.

>

> Thor

>

> ________________________________

> Vyas Munidas <muni>

> SAMVA

> Tuesday, September 22, 2009 1:29:46 AM

> Re: : USA: the recession is " very likely over

>

> Dear Thor,

>

> List members may find it very illuminating to deeply study the great crash

> of 1929, the conditions pre and post, the news stories that were fed right

> after the crash, the sub periods and transits as well. An excerpt from an

> article on wikipedia:

>

> " After the crash, the Dow Jones Industrial Average (DJIA) partially

> recovered in November-December 1929 and early 1930, only to reverse and

> crash again, reaching a low point of the great bear market in 1932. On

> July

> 8, 1932 the Dow reached its lowest level of the 20th century and did not

> return to pre-1929 levels until 23 November 1954. "

>

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wall_Street_Crash_of_1929

>

> Best regards,

>

> Vyas Munidas

>

> -

> " Cosmologer " <cosmologer

> <SAMVA >

> Monday, September 21, 2009 8:08 PM

> Re: : USA: the recession is " very likely over

>

> Hello dear Vyas,

>

> The aspect of natal Rahu in the SAMVA USA chart to transit 8th Saturn in

> Leo

> in September 2008 was a case of such an aspect having a direct connection

> in

> the chart. A lot of problems were encountered, including manipulation and

> destruction of legitimacy and assets, etc.. At the same time, transit 6th

> lord Jupiter in the 6th house was also afflicted by natal Rahu, signalling

> the banking crisis. As Jupiter also cast an aspect to transit Saturn, the

> destruction of assets and legitimacy was compounded. Tough times indeed -

> and a crisis broke out as predicted.

>

> In this case, the relevance to the USA is far less pronounced. That said,

> transit 8th lord Saturn has to do with government communication to the

> people. Saturn is in the 3rd house of communication. The aspect from

> transit

> Rahu in the 7th house of foreign policy could bring some manipulative

> influences to such communication.

>

> However, keep in mind the trend influences mentioned, and the fact that

> the

> prediction was based on the relief of prior transit strains. The trend

> influences will continue after these brief influences pass. Moreover, the

> brief aspect of transit Rahu to transit Saturn doesnÂ´t make the relief

> evidenced any less true, especially as it is expected to continue after

> these present transit strains pass. An economy is like a large oil tanker.

> It takes time to build up speed and when it gets moving, it takes time to

> slow down. Some squalls donÂ´t alter that fact.

>

> Thor

>

> ________________________________

> Vyas Munidas <muni>

> SAMVA

> Monday, September 21, 2009 11:50:25 PM

> Re: : USA: the recession is " very likely over

>

> Dear Thor,

>

> Correct, and this has been seen and said many times.

>

> My point is besides this and it stands strong:- when manipulative

> influences

> are at work, the increased positive news coming out should be questioned.

> I

> hope that you agree.

>

> Best regards,

>

> Vyas Munidas

>

> -

> " Cosmologer " <cosmologer

> <SAMVA >

> Monday, September 21, 2009 7:20 PM

> Re: : USA: the recession is " very likely over

>

> Dear Vyas,

>

> In general, the trend in the SAMVA USA chart is as per the dasa-bukhti of

> Venus-Saturn, that is for sluggish growth. The entry of transit Saturn

> into

> Virgo is expected to be associated with some relief.

>

> Stationary transit afflictions may produce significant events. Hence,when

> the station of Rahu at 6Â° Capricorn in aspect to natal Moon at 7Â° 19'

> Taurus

> lifted in early September, along with the entry of Saturn into Virgo and

> 3rd

> house, and out of the aspect of natal Saturn, some relief was expected.

> Sure

> enough, some relief was reported in the newspapers. The number of such

> news

> accounts has been continuous since and that is what is important at the

> national level. This is why I have shared those news stories on the list.

> They confirm the prediction.

>

> As for the transit-to-transit aspect of Rahu in early Capricorn to Saturn,

> Sun and Mercury in early Virgo is not strongly linked into the SAMVA USA

> chart. However, this transit will surely add to other tensions associated

> with e.g. the aspect of tr Saturn and tr Ketu to natal Jupiter in the

> chart,

> etc. and more so, as you point out, as Saturn is sub-period lord.

> Importantly, as those aspects aren't stationary, their influence will be

> short lived.

>

> Only the aspect of tr Jupiter to natal Sun is stationary at present and

> hence its influence will be most pronounced. Fortunately, for the USA, the

> natal Sun is strong and thus the influence is mostly a 6th house type

> strain

> on its indications manifesting mostly in strain having to do with 7th

> house

> matters.

>

> Finally, the present transit Rahu affliction is not linked into natal

> placements in the USA chart, hence the influences associated with this

> planet are not expected to be strongly felt in the national life. That

> said,

> the transit-to-transit influences will be there for a few weeks, adding to

> the concerns linked to the other adverse transits earlier mentioned.

>

> Thor

>

> ________________________________

> Vyas Munidas <muni>

> SAMVA

> Monday, September 21, 2009 9:38:21 PM

> Re: : USA: the recession is " very likely over

>

> My dear Thor,

>

> My point re: news coming out when manipulative factors are heavy, have

> strong astrological backing by SA and is therefore noteworthy.

> Practitioners

> of SA can choose to accept or deny it per their personal understanding.

>

> Best regards,

>

> Vyas Munidas

>

> -

> " Cosmologer " <cosmologer

> <SAMVA >

> Monday, September 21, 2009 5:12 PM

> Re: : USA: the recession is " very likely over

>

> Dear Vyas,

>

> I donÂ´t see the value of going into semantics concerning " long bottoms "

> or

> personal views on the soundness of the capitalist system, etc.. I am

> simply

> interested in analysing the SA astrology of the SAMVA USA chart, based on

> the required understanding of the chart and the mundane phenomena under

> study.

>

> Most economists just focus on the measurements at hand. Sure, they may get

> some very important things completely wrong, such as the extent of risk

> and

> overleverage in the financial system. In general, however, they just

> report

> and draw conclusions from the data being tabulated and released. Krugman

> was

> just reacting to the incoming data. It was changing his view of what is

> going on in the economy.

>

> Sure, the USA has had many financial crisis in its history, and, you are

> right, they can take a long time to work themselves out. And this one will

> likely do that too. In fact, has warned that the coming

> weeks may see setbacks in financial markets due to the difficult transits.

> However, long term, based on the Venus-Saturn period, in general, he sees

> a

> sluggish recovery. Of course, as I have mentioned before, there are some

> intense aspects for the next twelve months

>

> - tr stationary 6th lord Jupiter conjunct natal 2nd lord Sun (september -

> november 2009)

> - tr stationary 8th lord Saturn aspects natal 10th lord Mars (december

> 2009-february 2010)

> - tr stationary Rahu afflicts natal Rahu and tr Ketu afflicts natal Ketu

> (summer 2010)

> - tr Saturn opposite tr Jupiter, while both aspect natal Jupiter (summer

> 2010)

>

> These aspects will have their own influence at these times, which will

> overtake the trend influences to the extent that the natal

> strength/weakeness of the planets allows.

>

> Thor

>

> ________________________________

> Vyas Munidas <muni>

> SAMVA

> Monday, September 21, 2009 8:38:27 PM

> Re: : USA: the recession is " very likely over

>

> Dear Thor,

>

> Professor Choudhury made his prediction based on the increase of planetary

> strength and the removal of key afflictions. And this was the trigger for

> some so-called recovery news. Now the news is increasing when things are

> getting more difficult.

>

> It's up to you how you choose to judge this. For me, if I know the chart

> of

> someone who is trying to sell me a story, and I know that the manipulative

> factors are at play, I tend not to buy it. We have the USA's chart.

>

> Doubt about improvement is seen from the chart.

>

> Can the stock market continue to rally from here? Of course it can! Such

> is

> the nature of greed and feeding optimistic stories into the pool. The 1929

> stock market crash took years to unravel and there were lots of good news

> coming out after the initial fallout. The health of the US economy can

> only

> truly improve if the right infrastructure is put it - this can take many,

> many years. These problems won't just vanish by printing more money or

> good

> news. If you examine the reasons why the stock market has improved, you'll

> see that it's because of cutbacks and good old fashioned greed. In the

> short

> term, yes, full recovery! And many bad decisions can be made on this for

> the

> larger crash.

>

> I think the fundamental reason that Brian and you are disagreeing here is

> because he's looking long term. To him, I suppose, (and for me at least)

> recovery means sustainable and long term improvement. These news stories,

> quoted with Professor Choudhury's statements may give the impression of a

> long bottom in place. And I think this gives the wrong interpretation for

> those long term minded people.

>

> Best regards,

>

> Vyas Munidas

>

> -

> " cosmologer " <cosmologer

> <SAMVA >

> Monday, September 21, 2009 3:40 PM

> Re: : USA: the recession is " very likely over

>

> Dear Vyas,

>

> Ah, but that is a transit-to-transit aspect. I wasnÂ´t thinking of it

> specifically in relation to the USA. The reports of a bottoming out of the

> economy arrived before any of these aspects took hold. If the posts by you

> and Brian are any indication, these aspects may tend to create doubt about

> the improvement.

>

> Thor

>

> SAMVA , " Vyas Munidas " <munidas@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Thor,

> >

> > In the transit situation Rahu has an increasingly close impact on

> > Saturn,

> > the subperiod lord. Saturn here functions as a Rahu like planet. Rahu

> > also

> > exactly afflicts the transit Sun, and Mercury (the LO3, where Saturn,

> > and

> > the Sun are placed). Saturn also exactly afflicts Mercury. Venus ruling

> > the

> > masses is in the sign Leo, ruled by the Sun, and the Moon ruling the

> > chart

> > is in the Libra, ruled by Virgo. Saturn's influence on natal Jupiter

> > worsens

> > into middle of October. Mercury retrogrades into the influence of natal

> > Saturn.

> >

> > Wherever Rahu or planets which function like Rahu in the chart, we can

> > expect manipulations. The houses aren't afflicted, but their lords are,

> > which is also quite appreciable.

> >

> > Best regards,

> >

> > Vyas Munidas

> >

> > -

> > " Cosmologer " <cosmologer@>

> > <SAMVA >

> > Monday, September 21, 2009 2:01 PM

> > Re: : USA: the recession is " very likely over

> >

> > Dear Vyas,

> >

> > Natal Rahu afflicts the 10th, 2nd, 4th and 6th houses in the SAMVA USA

> > chart, suggesting some scope for manipulation in the affected areas of

> > life.

> > However, at the present time neither transit Rahu or natal Rahu have an

> > appreciable impact in the chart.

> >

> > predicted easing of conditions or improving economic

> > outlook in the USA from August 2009. So far, this prediction has been

> > shown

> > to be correct.

> >

> > Best wishes,

> >

> > Thor

> >

> > ________________________________

> > Vyas Munidas <munidas@>

> > SAMVA

> > Monday, September 21, 2009 5:45:57 PM

> > Re: : USA: the recession is " very likely over

> >

> > Dear Thor,

> >

> > Right now Rahu has a notebale mpact on the USA, and as such these

> > reports

> > coming out should be taken with a grain of salt.

> >

> > Best regards,

> >

> > Vyas Munidas

> >

> > -

> > " Cosmologer " <cosmologer@>

> > <SAMVA >

> > Monday, September 21, 2009 10:34 AM

> > Re: : USA: the recession is " very likely over

> >

> > Hello dear list,

> >

> > Reports confirming a bottom of the recession and recovery ahead are now

> > pouring in from all quarters. President Obama said as much over the

> > weekend

> > although he warned that unemployment would likely continue to rise into

> > 2010, before it begins to get better.

> >

> > Nobel Winner Krugman Says Ã¢?~End of World PostponedÃ¢?T

> > Sept. 21 (Bloomberg) -- The global economic downturn has probably hit

> > bottom

> > though the recovery will be Ã¢?oslow and painful,Ã¢?ï¿½ said Paul

> > Krugman, the

> > Nobel

> > Prize winning economist. Ã¢?oThe end of the world appears to have been

> > postponed,Ã¢?ï¿½ Krugman, a professor at Princeton University, said at a

> > seminar

> > in Helsinki today. The world economy Ã¢?odoes not appear to be falling

> > into

> > an

> > abyss but is stillÃ¢?ï¿½ in trouble. The outlook is Ã¢?overy fuzzyÃ¢?T

> > and a

> > W-shaped

> > recovery may become U-shaped.

> > http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087 & sid=ap6aPBj59zLc

> >

> > U.S. Economy Will Add Jobs by End of This Year, Maki Says

> > Sept. 21 (Bloomberg) -- The U.S. economy will add jobs by the end of

> > this

> > year, said Dean Maki, chief U.S. economist at Barclays Capital Inc. in

> > New

> > York. The unemployment rate will Ã¢?opeak slightly below 10

> > percent,Ã¢?ï¿½

> > Maki said

> > today in an interview on Bloomberg Radio. Ã¢?oWe donÃ¢?Tt think

> > thereÃ¢?Ts a

> > lot left

> > to go.Ã¢?ï¿½ In August, the rate reached a quarter-century high of 9.7

> > percent.

> > After losing jobs every month since December 2007, Ã¢?opayroll growth

> > turns

> > positiveÃ¢?ï¿½ within three months, Maki said. September, however, will

> > show

> > another net loss in non-farm payrolls, he said.

> > http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087 & sid=a90t8ybOKLSo

> >

> > Leading economic indicators rise in August

> > DJI 9,755.35 -64.85

> > AP BusinessÃ¢? " 30 mins ago

> > NEW YORK Ã¢? " A private research group's forecast of economic activity

> > rose

> > in

> > August for the fifth straight month, the latest sign the recession has

> > ended. The Conference Board says its index of leading indicators rose

> > 0.6

> > percent in August. That follows a 0.9 percent gain in July revised up

> > from

> > 0.6 percent. Economists surveyed by Thomson Reuters expected a 0.7

> > percent

> > gain last month. The indicators are designed to project economic

> > activity

> > in

> > the next three to six months. Five of the 10 that comprise the index

> > increased in August, including stock prices and building permits.

> > http://news./s/ap/20090921/ap_on_bi_ge/us_economy

> >

> > Thor

> >

> > ________________________________

> > cosmologer <cosmologer@>

> > SAMVA

> > Friday, September 18, 2009 10:34:59 PM

> > Re: USA: the recession is " very likely over

> >

> > PS Some more interesting information, although a few weeks old.

> >

> > Recovery arriving quicker than expected but activity will remain weak,

> > says

> > OECD

> > 03/09/2009 - Recovery from the global recession is likely to arrive

> > earlier

> > than had been expected a few months ago but the pace of activity will

> > remain

> > weak well into next year, according the OECD's latest Interim Economic

> > Assessment.

> > Governments will need to continue to stimulate their economies as rising

> > unemployment and weak housing markets continue to dampen private demand.

> > The

> > current exceptionally low interest rates should remain in force for the

> > time

> > being, the assessment adds. The OECD forecasts economic growth across

> > the

> > Group of Seven countries to fall by 3.7% this year, a less brutal

> > contraction than the 4.1% drop projected in June 2009. The latest GDP

> > forecasts for this year provide slightly improved outlooks for Japan and

> > the

> > Euro area and an unchanged overall projection for the US. The lower

> > annual

> > growth projection for the UK this year is due to downward revisions to

> > GDP

> > in the final quarter of last year and first quarter of 2009.

> >

http://www.oecd.org/document/25/0,3343,en_2649_34109_43605657_1_1_1_37443,00.htm\

l

> >

> > SAMVA , Cosmologer <cosmologer@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Hello dear list members,

> > > Ãf,

> > > The prediction by for the USÃf, economy to begin to

> > > show

> > > signs of recovery in September based on the SAMVA USA chart (Perpetual

> > > Union) has come true. That said, the recoveryÃf, is also expected to

> > > remain

> > > sluggish in the Saturn sub-period until 2012.

> > > Ãf,

> > > The data and analysis is convincing on this point of recovery having

> > > begun. One report states

> > > " The data this week clearly supported Federal Reserve Chairman Ben

> > > BernankeÃfÂ¢Ã¢,Â¬Ã¢ " Â¢s statement that the recession is " very likely

> > > over. "

> > > Ãf,

> > > Again, congratulations are in order for 's accurate

> > > prediction, both about the nature of the event as well as its

> > > timing.Ãf,

> > > WhileÃf, aÃf, remarkable feat, it is also what we have come to expect

> > > ofÃf,

> > > the

> > > Systems' Approach.

> > >

> > > At the same time, the coming weeks are likely to be tense, with

> > > increased

> > > volatility likely in financial markets.

> > > Ãf,

> > > Thor

> > >

> >

> > ---

> >

September 22, 2009

just an fyi - prechter has been bearish since 1994 and has underperformed the market considerably sincehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Prechter

On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 8:03 AM, Vyas Munidas <muni> wrote:

Dear Thor,

What I find most interesting about this is that after the initial crash in

1929, lots of hope was fed hope on the radio and newspapers without a

fundamental basis. Despite the optimism, things got worse with the market

bottoming 3 years later. Then there was a really slow grind for some 20

years to see better market levels, and it took many years for living

conditions to return.

Here's an article written on Forbes back in October 2004 showing the

opposing predictions of two knowledgeable strategists:

http://www.forbes.com/2004/10/25/cx_pk_1025mondaymatchup.html

Now, it's 2009 and we know that Prechter was correct in calling the fallout

several years in advance. Economic recovery in the minds of most people

means the return to pre-catastrophe happiness with solid infrastructure. I

have thought about this market fall since 2001 when I got interested in

finance and noticed that banks were grossly overleveraged. Now, I don't see

such a perky turnaround as many are being led to envision by these news

stories - just a very slow grind and more market scares.

Professor Choudhury has given his opinion about the USA for the next few

years. Let's see how it turns out.

Best regards,

Vyas Munidas-- brg

September 22, 2009

Dear Vyas,

No problem.

Best wishes,

Thor

Vyas Munidas <muni>SAMVA Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 6:40:33 PMRe: : USA: the recession is "very likely overDear Thor,I was referring to the increasing clarity of influences in the USA chart over time. I am sorry that you misunderstood.Best regards,Vyas Munidas- "Cosmologer" <cosmologer<SAMVA >Tuesday, September 22, 2009 2:10 PMRe: : USA: the recession is "very likely

overDear Vyas,Predictions are either realised or not.Thor________________________________Vyas Munidas <muni>SAMVA Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 6:07:07 PMRe: : USA: the recession is "very likely overDear Thor,Yes. And give it some time, and it will become clearer and clearer.Best regards,Vyas Munidas- "Cosmologer" <cosmologer<SAMVA >Tuesday, September 22, 2009 8:57

AMRe: : USA: the recession is "very likely overDear Vyas,All human beings are, to differing degrees, vulnerable to attachments,including to points of view, etc. So, let us all be mindful to keep suchtendencies in check in order to arrive at the truest assessment.The SA reading of transit/period influences in the SAMVA USA chart shouldnow be clear. As before, predictions are presented and they will stand orfall based on their intrinsic merit.We can now focus on following the events.Best wishes,Thor________________________________Vyas Munidas <muni>SAMVA Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 12:29:00 PMRe: : USA: the

recession is "very likely overDear Thor,I was speaking in general to news stories circulating at this time in theUSA. We have to see all angles and be open to any possibilities with minimumbias.Best regards,Vyas Munidas- "cosmologer" <cosmologer<SAMVA >Tuesday, September 22, 2009 8:24 AMRe: : USA: the recession is "very likely overPS One spelling correction. The word 'threat' should, of course, be 'thread'(as in discussion thread.SAMVA , Cosmologer <cosmologer wrote:>> Dear

Vyas,>> Why would a new administration cover up for the sins of the last one?>> That said, let us end this threat before it becomes a burden for us andÂ> the list members.>> Thor>>>>> ________________________________> Vyas Munidas <muni>> SAMVA > Tuesday, September 22, 2009 12:09:56 PM> Re: : USA: the recession is "very likely over>> Dear Thor,>> We can also take the same idea for the news stories coming out in the> nation> when manipulations are indicated. Some things are exposed, and others> circulate.>>> Best regards,>> Vyas Munidas>> - > "Cosmologer"

<cosmologer> <SAMVA >> Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:31 AM> Re: : USA: the recession is "very likely over>>> Hello dear list members,>> Here is a story which shows how the manipulative tendencies of Rahu or 8th> lord can manifest. First, these influences can produces strong urges which> the individual feels a need to satisfy without consideration for the> impact> on others or in contravention of social norms. The needs compel the> individual to deceive others as necessary. Normally, the mental deception> begins with one self. The ruse is then extended to others and pursued> until> it is discovered, often becoming quite elaborate before being discovered.> A> rise is then followed by a

humiliating and painful fall. The Greek> tragedies, including the Illiyad and Odyssey of Homer, were built on a> similar theme, based on the hubris of individuals who seek worldly power> or> the satisifaction of personal desires, with a good amount of human> arrogance, resulting in a tragic fall or painful experiences.>> Edwards asked aide to claim paternity, sources say> updated 2 hours, 48 minutes ago> RALEIGH, North Carolina (CNN) -- Former Democratic presidential hopeful> John> Edwards talked a campaign aide into claiming he fathered a child born to> Edwards' onetime mistress, sources familiar with the issue said Monday.> Andrew Young, former aide to Sen. John Edwards, claims Edwards knew all> along his mistress was carrying his child. Edwards admitted to his affair> with Rielle Hunter in August 2008 after months of denials, but said he>

could> not have been the father of Hunter's daughter, who was born the previous> February. Former Edwards staffer Andrew Young has said he was the girl's> father -- but has recanted and says he made it because he believed in> Edwards, lawyers and others familiar with the matter told CNN.> http://edition.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/22/edwards.affair/index.html>> Thor>>>>>> ________________________________> Cosmologer <cosmologer> SAMVA > Tuesday, September 22, 2009 7:18:06 AM> Re: : USA: the recession is "very likely over>>>>> Hello dear Vyas,>> List members

may make use of the following studies of the SA astrology of> the Great Depression.>> SAMVA USA chart: the Moon's nodes and the start of the Great Depression> (December 19, 2007)> http://cosmologer.blogspot.com/2007/12/samva-usa-chart-moons-nodes-and-start.html>> SAMVA USA chart: Bank Holiday of 1933 (January 16, 2008)> http://cosmologer.blogspot.com/2008/01/samva-usa-chart-bank-holiday-of-1933.html>> Importantly, the major period operating was the Rahu period from 1919 to> 1937. It was marked by a rise (Roaring Twenties) and a fall (Great> Depression), which are characteristic influences of Rahu. The fortunes> were> strongly influenced by

the sequence of sub-periods and transits. The major> cataclysm came in the Rahu-Ketu period, which began on October 19, 1929,> when the transit nodal axis was conjunct both the natal nodes and the MEPs> of the 4th and 10th houses.>> As for reporters who can't wait to report on an improvement, there are two> things two keep in mind:> 1) human hope springs eternal> 2) one insight that has given is that an objective> assessment requires removal of attachment from a given situation.>> In other words, the wish for improvement (attachment for earlier booming> period) and a better future (hope) may explain such over-optimistic news> reports rather than some manipulation of people by the government. In this> regard we may also note that with 1 lord Moon exalted in the 11th house,> American's would generally tend to be an optimistic people.

A case of> manipulation of the masses by the government (associated with the natal> influences of 8th lord Saturn's aspect on 2nd lord Sun and Rahu's> affliction> on the 10th house, 2nd house and 4th house and 6th house) is likely to> have> different motivations.>> Thor>>>> ________________________________> Vyas Munidas <muni>> SAMVA > Tuesday, September 22, 2009 1:29:46 AM> Re: : USA: the recession is "very likely over>> Dear Thor,>> List members may find it very illuminating to deeply study the great crash> of 1929, the conditions pre and post, the news stories that were fed right> after the crash, the sub periods and transits as well. An excerpt from

an> article on wikipedia:>> "After the crash, the Dow Jones Industrial Average (DJIA) partially> recovered in November-December 1929 and early 1930, only to reverse and> crash again, reaching a low point of the great bear market in 1932. On> July> 8, 1932 the Dow reached its lowest level of the 20th century and did not> return to pre-1929 levels until 23 November 1954.">> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wall_Street_Crash_of_1929>>> Best regards,>> Vyas Munidas>> - > "Cosmologer" <cosmologer> <SAMVA >> Monday, September 21, 2009 8:08 PM> Re: : USA: the recession

is "very likely over>>> Hello dear Vyas,>> The aspect of natal Rahu in the SAMVA USA chart to transit 8th Saturn in> Leo> in September 2008 was a case of such an aspect having a direct connection> in> the chart. A lot of problems were encountered, including manipulation and> destruction of legitimacy and assets, etc.. At the same time, transit 6th> lord Jupiter in the 6th house was also afflicted by natal Rahu, signalling> the banking crisis. As Jupiter also cast an aspect to transit Saturn, the> destruction of assets and legitimacy was compounded. Tough times indeed -> and a crisis broke out as predicted.>> In this case, the relevance to the USA is far less pronounced. That said,> transit 8th lord Saturn has to do with government communication to the> people. Saturn is in the 3rd house of communication. The aspect from>

transit> Rahu in the 7th house of foreign policy could bring some manipulative> influences to such communication.>> However, keep in mind the trend influences mentioned, and the fact that> the> prediction was based on the relief of prior transit strains. The trend> influences will continue after these brief influences pass. Moreover, the> brief aspect of transit Rahu to transit Saturn doesnÂ´t make the relief> evidenced any less true, especially as it is expected to continue after> these present transit strains pass. An economy is like a large oil tanker.> It takes time to build up speed and when it gets moving, it takes time to> slow down. Some squalls donÂ´t alter that fact.>> Thor>>>> ________________________________> Vyas Munidas <muni>> SAMVA > Monday, September 21, 2009 11:50:25 PM> Re: : USA: the recession is "very likely over>> Dear Thor,>> Correct, and this has been seen and said many times.>> My point is besides this and it stands strong:- when manipulative> influences> are at work, the increased positive news coming out should be questioned.> I> hope that you agree.>>> Best regards,>> Vyas Munidas>> - > "Cosmologer" <cosmologer> <SAMVA >> Monday, September 21, 2009 7:20 PM> Re: : USA: the recession is "very likely over>>> Dear Vyas,>> In

general, the trend in the SAMVA USA chart is as per the dasa-bukhti of> Venus-Saturn, that is for sluggish growth. The entry of transit Saturn> into> Virgo is expected to be associated with some relief.>> Stationary transit afflictions may produce significant events. Hence,when> the station of Rahu at 6Â° Capricorn in aspect to natal Moon at 7Â° 19'> Taurus> lifted in early September, along with the entry of Saturn into Virgo and> 3rd> house, and out of the aspect of natal Saturn, some relief was expected.> Sure> enough, some relief was reported in the newspapers. The number of such> news> accounts has been continuous since and that is what is important at the> national level. This is why I have shared those news stories on the list.> They confirm the prediction.>> As for the transit-to-transit aspect of Rahu in early

Capricorn to Saturn,> Sun and Mercury in early Virgo is not strongly linked into the SAMVA USA> chart. However, this transit will surely add to other tensions associated> with e.g. the aspect of tr Saturn and tr Ketu to natal Jupiter in the> chart,> etc. and more so, as you point out, as Saturn is sub-period lord.> Importantly, as those aspects aren't stationary, their influence will be> short lived.>> Only the aspect of tr Jupiter to natal Sun is stationary at present and> hence its influence will be most pronounced. Fortunately, for the USA, the> natal Sun is strong and thus the influence is mostly a 6th house type> strain> on its indications manifesting mostly in strain having to do with 7th> house> matters.>> Finally, the present transit Rahu affliction is not linked into natal> placements in the USA chart, hence the

influences associated with this> planet are not expected to be strongly felt in the national life. That> said,> the transit-to-transit influences will be there for a few weeks, adding to> the concerns linked to the other adverse transits earlier mentioned.>> Thor>>>> ________________________________> Vyas Munidas <muni>> SAMVA > Monday, September 21, 2009 9:38:21 PM> Re: : USA: the recession is "very likely over>> My dear Thor,>> My point re: news coming out when manipulative factors are heavy, have> strong astrological backing by SA and is therefore noteworthy.> Practitioners> of SA can choose to accept or deny it per their personal

understanding.>>> Best regards,>> Vyas Munidas>>> - > "Cosmologer" <cosmologer> <SAMVA >> Monday, September 21, 2009 5:12 PM> Re: : USA: the recession is "very likely over>>> Dear Vyas,>> I donÂ´t see the value of going into semantics concerning "long bottoms"> or> personal views on the soundness of the capitalist system, etc.. I am> simply> interested in analysing the SA astrology of the SAMVA USA chart, based on> the required understanding of the chart and the mundane phenomena under> study.>> Most economists just focus on the measurements at hand. Sure, they may get> some very important things

completely wrong, such as the extent of risk> and> overleverage in the financial system. In general, however, they just> report> and draw conclusions from the data being tabulated and released. Krugman> was> just reacting to the incoming data. It was changing his view of what is> going on in the economy.>> Sure, the USA has had many financial crisis in its history, and, you are> right, they can take a long time to work themselves out. And this one will> likely do that too. In fact, has warned that the coming> weeks may see setbacks in financial markets due to the difficult transits.> However, long term, based on the Venus-Saturn period, in general, he sees> a> sluggish recovery. Of course, as I have mentioned before, there are some> intense aspects for the next twelve months>> - tr stationary 6th lord Jupiter

conjunct natal 2nd lord Sun (september -> november 2009)> - tr stationary 8th lord Saturn aspects natal 10th lord Mars (december> 2009-february 2010)> - tr stationary Rahu afflicts natal Rahu and tr Ketu afflicts natal Ketu> (summer 2010)> - tr Saturn opposite tr Jupiter, while both aspect natal Jupiter (summer> 2010)>> These aspects will have their own influence at these times, which will> overtake the trend influences to the extent that the natal> strength/weakeness of the planets allows.>> Thor>>>>>> ________________________________> Vyas Munidas <muni>> SAMVA > Monday, September 21, 2009 8:38:27 PM> Re: : USA: the recession is "very likely

over>> Dear Thor,>> Professor Choudhury made his prediction based on the increase of planetary> strength and the removal of key afflictions. And this was the trigger for> some so-called recovery news. Now the news is increasing when things are> getting more difficult.>> It's up to you how you choose to judge this. For me, if I know the chart> of> someone who is trying to sell me a story, and I know that the manipulative> factors are at play, I tend not to buy it. We have the USA's chart.>> Doubt about improvement is seen from the chart.>> Can the stock market continue to rally from here? Of course it can! Such> is> the nature of greed and feeding optimistic stories into the pool. The 1929> stock market crash took years to unravel and there were lots of good news> coming out after the initial fallout. The health of

the US economy can> only> truly improve if the right infrastructure is put it - this can take many,> many years. These problems won't just vanish by printing more money or> good> news. If you examine the reasons why the stock market has improved, you'll> see that it's because of cutbacks and good old fashioned greed. In the> short> term, yes, full recovery! And many bad decisions can be made on this for> the> larger crash.>> I think the fundamental reason that Brian and you are disagreeing here is> because he's looking long term. To him, I suppose, (and for me at least)> recovery means sustainable and long term improvement. These news stories,> quoted with Professor Choudhury's statements may give the impression of a> long bottom in place. And I think this gives the wrong interpretation for> those long term minded

people.>>> Best regards,>> Vyas Munidas>> - > "cosmologer" <cosmologer> <SAMVA >> Monday, September 21, 2009 3:40 PM> Re: : USA: the recession is "very likely over>>> Dear Vyas,>> Ah, but that is a transit-to-transit aspect. I wasnÂ´t thinking of it> specifically in relation to the USA. The reports of a bottoming out of the> economy arrived before any of these aspects took hold. If the posts by you> and Brian are any indication, these aspects may tend to create doubt about> the improvement.>> Thor>> SAMVA , "Vyas

Munidas" <munidas@> wrote:> >> > Dear Thor,> >> > In the transit situation Rahu has an increasingly close impact on> > Saturn,> > the subperiod lord. Saturn here functions as a Rahu like planet. Rahu> > also> > exactly afflicts the transit Sun, and Mercury (the LO3, where Saturn,> > and> > the Sun are placed). Saturn also exactly afflicts Mercury. Venus ruling> > the> > masses is in the sign Leo, ruled by the Sun, and the Moon ruling the> > chart> > is in the Libra, ruled by Virgo. Saturn's influence on natal Jupiter> > worsens> > into middle of October. Mercury retrogrades into the influence of natal> > Saturn.> >> > Wherever Rahu or planets which function like Rahu in the chart, we can> > expect manipulations. The houses aren't afflicted, but their

lords are,> > which is also quite appreciable.> >> >> > Best regards,> >> > Vyas Munidas> >> > - > > "Cosmologer" <cosmologer@>> > <SAMVA >> > Monday, September 21, 2009 2:01 PM> > Re: : USA: the recession is "very likely over> >> >> > Dear Vyas,> >> > Natal Rahu afflicts the 10th, 2nd, 4th and 6th houses in the SAMVA USA> > chart, suggesting some scope for manipulation in the affected areas of> > life.> > However, at the present time neither transit Rahu or natal Rahu have an> > appreciable impact in the chart.> >> > predicted easing of

conditions or improving economic> > outlook in the USA from August 2009. So far, this prediction has been> > shown> > to be correct.> >> > Best wishes,> >> > Thor> >> >> >> >> > ________________________________> > Vyas Munidas <munidas@>> > SAMVA > > Monday, September 21, 2009 5:45:57 PM> > Re: : USA: the recession is "very likely over> >> > Dear Thor,> >> > Right now Rahu has a notebale mpact on the USA, and as such these> > reports> > coming out should be taken with a grain of salt.> >> >> > Best regards,> >> > Vyas Munidas> >> >

- > > "Cosmologer" <cosmologer@>> > <SAMVA >> > Monday, September 21, 2009 10:34 AM> > Re: : USA: the recession is "very likely over> >> >> > Hello dear list,> >> > Reports confirming a bottom of the recession and recovery ahead are now> > pouring in from all quarters. President Obama said as much over the> > weekend> > although he warned that unemployment would likely continue to rise into> > 2010, before it begins to get better.> >> > Nobel Winner Krugman Says Ã¢?~End of World PostponedÃ¢?T> > Sept. 21 (Bloomberg) -- The global economic downturn has probably hit> > bottom> > though the recovery will be

Ã¢?oslow and painful,Ã¢?ï¿½ said Paul> > Krugman, the> > Nobel> > Prize winning economist. Ã¢?oThe end of the world appears to have been> > postponed,Ã¢?ï¿½ Krugman, a professor at Princeton University, said at a> > seminar> > in Helsinki today. The world economy Ã¢?odoes not appear to be falling> > into> > an> > abyss but is stillÃ¢?ï¿½ in trouble. The outlook is Ã¢?overy fuzzyÃ¢?T> > and a> > W-shaped> > recovery may become U-shaped.> > http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087 & sid=ap6aPBj59zLc> >> > U.S. Economy Will Add Jobs by End of This Year, Maki Says> > Sept. 21 (Bloomberg) -- The U.S. economy will add jobs by the end of> > this> > year,

said Dean Maki, chief U.S. economist at Barclays Capital Inc. in> > New> > York. The unemployment rate will Ã¢?opeak slightly below 10> > percent,Ã¢?ï¿½> > Maki said> > today in an interview on Bloomberg Radio. Ã¢?oWe donÃ¢?Tt think> > thereÃ¢?Ts a> > lot left> > to go.Ã¢?ï¿½ In August, the rate reached a quarter-century high of 9.7> > percent.> > After losing jobs every month since December 2007, Ã¢?opayroll growth> > turns> > positiveÃ¢?ï¿½ within three months, Maki said. September, however, will> > show> > another net loss in non-farm payrolls, he said.> > http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087 & sid=a90t8ybOKLSo> >> > Leading economic indicators rise

in August> > DJI 9,755.35 -64.85> > AP BusinessÃ¢?" 30 mins ago> > NEW YORK Ã¢?" A private research group's forecast of economic activity> > rose> > in> > August for the fifth straight month, the latest sign the recession has> > ended. The Conference Board says its index of leading indicators rose> > 0.6> > percent in August. That follows a 0.9 percent gain in July revised up> > from> > 0.6 percent. Economists surveyed by Thomson Reuters expected a 0.7> > percent> > gain last month. The indicators are designed to project economic> > activity> > in> > the next three to six months. Five of the 10 that comprise the index> > increased in August, including stock prices and building permits.> > http://news./s/ap/20090921/ap_on_bi_ge/us_economy> >> > Thor> >> >> >> >> > ________________________________> > cosmologer <cosmologer@>> > SAMVA > > Friday, September 18, 2009 10:34:59 PM> > Re: USA: the recession is "very likely over> >> > PS Some more interesting information, although a few weeks old.> >> > Recovery arriving quicker than expected but activity will remain weak,> > says> > OECD> > 03/09/2009 - Recovery from the global recession is likely to arrive> > earlier> > than had been expected a few months ago but the pace of activity will> > remain> > weak well into

next year, according the OECD's latest Interim Economic> > Assessment.> > Governments will need to continue to stimulate their economies as rising> > unemployment and weak housing markets continue to dampen private demand.> > The> > current exceptionally low interest rates should remain in force for the> > time> > being, the assessment adds. The OECD forecasts economic growth across> > the> > Group of Seven countries to fall by 3.7% this year, a less brutal> > contraction than the 4.1% drop projected in June 2009. The latest GDP> > forecasts for this year provide slightly improved outlooks for Japan and> > the> > Euro area and an unchanged overall projection for the US. The lower> > annual> > growth projection for the UK this year is due to downward revisions to> > GDP> > in the final

quarter of last year and first quarter of 2009.> > http://www.oecd.org/document/25/0,3343,en_2649_34109_43605657_1_1_1_37443,00.html> >> > SAMVA , Cosmologer <cosmologer@> wrote:> > >> > > Hello dear list members,> > > Ãf,> > > The prediction by for the USÃf, economy to begin to> > > show> > > signs of recovery in September based on the SAMVA USA chart (Perpetual> > > Union) has come true. That said, the recoveryÃf, is also expected to> > > remain> > > sluggish in the Saturn sub-period until 2012.> > > Ãf,> > > The data and analysis is

convincing on this point of recovery having> > > begun. One report states> > > "The data this week clearly supported Federal Reserve Chairman Ben> > > BernankeÃfÂ¢Ã¢,Â¬Ã¢"Â¢s statement that the recession is "very likely> > > over."> > > Ãf,> > > Again, congratulations are in order for 's accurate> > > prediction, both about the nature of the event as well as its> > > timing.Ãf,> > > WhileÃf, aÃf, remarkable feat, it is also what we have come to expect> > > ofÃf,> > > the> > > Systems' Approach.> > >> > > At the same time, the coming weeks are likely to be tense, with> > > increased> > > volatility likely in financial markets.> > > Ãf,> > > Thor> > >> >>

>> >> >> > ---> >> >

September 22, 2009

Hello,

Timing is everything. Open mind brings better results. Read up on a man

called Nassim Taleb.

Best regards,

Vyas Munidas

-

" gordin shumway " <gordinshumway

Tuesday, September 22, 2009 3:41 PM

Re: : USA: the recession is " very likely over

just an fyi - prechter has been bearish since 1994 and has underperformed

the market considerably since

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Prechter

On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 8:03 AM, Vyas Munidas <muni> wrote:

Dear Thor,

What I find most interesting about this is that after the initial crash in

1929, lots of hope was fed hope on the radio and newspapers without a

fundamental basis. Despite the optimism, things got worse with the market

bottoming 3 years later. Then there was a really slow grind for some 20

years to see better market levels, and it took many years for living

conditions to return.

Here's an article written on Forbes back in October 2004 showing the

opposing predictions of two knowledgeable strategists:

http://www.forbes.com/2004/10/25/cx_pk_1025mondaymatchup.html

Now, it's 2009 and we know that Prechter was correct in calling the fallout

several years in advance. Economic recovery in the minds of most people

means the return to pre-catastrophe happiness with solid infrastructure. I

have thought about this market fall since 2001 when I got interested in

finance and noticed that banks were grossly overleveraged. Now, I don't see

such a perky turnaround as many are being led to envision by these news

stories - just a very slow grind and more market scares.

Professor Choudhury has given his opinion about the USA for the next few

years. Let's see how it turns out.

Best regards,

Vyas Munidas

--

br

g

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: USA: the recession is very likely over

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