Guest guest Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 Hello dear list members, I have written the following article. Enjoy! Saturday, October 10, 2009 Greco-Indian astrology Many Western astrologers assume modern Western astrology owes its origins to the discovery of astrology by the ancient Babylonians. They also consider that astrology was further developed by the Egyptians of antiquity before reaching its penultimate stage in the Hellenic world. At the same time, they consider that the astrology of the Hellenic world informed astrology in India. The evidence is strictly based on an interpretation of the literary record. One important anomaly has, however, emerged in this story, which this article explores. To read more: http://cosmologer.blogspot.com/ Thor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 Hello my dear Thor, All ancient knowledge needs changes for the present era. Tracing history is one thing but finding validity is more important. - Cosmologer SAMVA Sunday, October 11, 2009 3:03 PM Re: Blog: Greco-Indian astrology Hello dear list members, I have slightly modified the text here and there for greater accuracy or clarity. I have also added some further information to the article. In sum,- an examination of the Babyloninan, Egyptian, Greek, Roman and Arabic literal record is not giving a comprehensive picture- the historical setting has to be examined- knowledge of Indian texts (in Sanskrit) is still incomplete- oral transmission intra-familia was likely the way that this knowledge was propagated in India in ancient times- the spread to the West after the invasion by Alexander may have been through Indian court-astrologers- the trantric civilization opened up human beings to deeper knowledge, through meditation and true assessment- the fidelity of Indian astrologers with the Ayanamsa correction, the horoscope format and horoscopic astrology in its original form is likely the single greatest clue about the source of this knowledge being India. - despite being continuously modified through astronomy and technique, the divine knowledge depreciated steadily in the West.ConclusionWhile there is literary evidence of works of Greek astrologers in the late Hellenic age, including the transportation of one such book to India in Roman times, this is far from sufficient proof of the origins of horoscopic astrology. Given the caste system, Indian astrologers likely passed down their astrology knowledge intra-familia, avoiding to disseminate it in book form. It is more likely that an oral transmission of Vedic astrology knowledge to the Hellenic world took place, perhaps through Indian court astrologers. After mastering the horoscopic astrology system, the Greek astrologers set about to modify and enhance it with a number of astronomical innovations, a new naming system, a new horoscope format and likely some novel insights. It would have been transcribed by the Greeks and re-exported to India in that form. Understandably, it would have been recognised as a novel contribution by Indian astrologers of that age. Nevertheless, given the monumental contribution of Indian civilization to philosophy and science, it is ahead of us to perform research into the sanskrit texts and other sources to settle this matter once and for all. More importantly, as my friend Rémi stated so well "what is really important is the development of the practitioner's efficiency in this day and age." This is the chief concern of those applying the System's Approach.Thor Cosmologer <cosmologer >samva Sent: Sat, October 10, 2009 1:33:43 PM Blog: Greco-Indian astrology Hello dear list members, I have written the following article. Enjoy! Saturday, October 10, 2009 Greco-Indian astrology Many Western astrologers assume modern Western astrology owes its origins to the discovery of astrology by the ancient Babylonians. They also consider that astrology was further developed by the Egyptians of antiquity before reaching its penultimate stage in the Hellenic world. At the same time, they consider that the astrology of the Hellenic world informed astrology in India. The evidence is strictly based on an interpretation of the literary record. One important anomaly has, however, emerged in this story, which this article explores. To read more: http://cosmologer.blogspot.com/ Thor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 Hello my dear VK, With your permission, may these be the final words in the article? Thor SIHA <vkchoudhrySAMVA Sent: Mon, October 12, 2009 2:49:39 AMRe: Blog: Greco-Indian astrology Hello my dear Thor, All ancient knowledge needs changes for the present era. Tracing history is one thing but finding validity is more important. - Cosmologer SAMVA Sunday, October 11, 2009 3:03 PM Re: Blog: Greco-Indian astrology Hello dear list members, I have slightly modified the text here and there for greater accuracy or clarity. I have also added some further information to the article. In sum,- an examination of the Babyloninan, Egyptian, Greek, Roman and Arabic literal record is not giving a comprehensive picture- the historical setting has to be examined- knowledge of Indian texts (in Sanskrit) is still incomplete- oral transmission intra-familia was likely the way that this knowledge was propagated in India in ancient times- the spread to the West after the invasion by Alexander may have been through Indian court-astrologers- the trantric civilization opened up human beings to deeper knowledge, through meditation and true assessment- the fidelity of Indian astrologers with the Ayanamsa correction, the horoscope format and horoscopic astrology in its original form is likely the single greatest clue about the source of this knowledge being India. - despite being continuously modified through astronomy and technique, the divine knowledge depreciated steadily in the West.ConclusionWhile there is literary evidence of works of Greek astrologers in the late Hellenic age, including the transportation of one such book to India in Roman times, this is far from sufficient proof of the origins of horoscopic astrology. Given the caste system, Indian astrologers likely passed down their astrology knowledge intra-familia, avoiding to disseminate it in book form. It is more likely that an oral transmission of Vedic astrology knowledge to the Hellenic world took place, perhaps through Indian court astrologers. After mastering the horoscopic astrology system, the Greek astrologers set about to modify and enhance it with a number of astronomical innovations, a new naming system, a new horoscope format and likely some novel insights. It would have been transcribed by the Greeks and re-exported to India in that form. Understandably, it would have been recognised as a novel contribution by Indian astrologers of that age. Nevertheless, given the monumental contribution of Indian civilization to philosophy and science, it is ahead of us to perform research into the sanskrit texts and other sources to settle this matter once and for all. More importantly, as my friend Rémi stated so well "what is really important is the development of the practitioner' s efficiency in this day and age." This is the chief concern of those applying the System's Approach.Thor Cosmologer <cosmologer >samva Sat, October 10, 2009 1:33:43 PM Blog: Greco-Indian astrology Hello dear list members, I have written the following article. Enjoy! Saturday, October 10, 2009 Greco-Indian astrology Many Western astrologers assume modern Western astrology owes its origins to the discovery of astrology by the ancient Babylonians. They also consider that astrology was further developed by the Egyptians of antiquity before reaching its penultimate stage in the Hellenic world. At the same time, they consider that the astrology of the Hellenic world informed astrology in India. The evidence is strictly based on an interpretation of the literary record. One important anomaly has, however, emerged in this story, which this article explores. To read more: http://cosmologer. blogspot. com/ Thor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 Hello dear list members, I think the article is now in its final form. Several additions and improvements have been made to it, given also feedback from interested list members. Thanks. Greco-Indian astrology (October 10, 2009) http://cosmologer.blogspot.com/2009/10/greco-indian-astrology.html As a background information, let me add that I felt it important to react to the conclusion of some Western astrologers that horoscopic astrology was invented by the Greeks and transmitted to India. The conclusion seemed to contradict a lot of what I knew from history and to be based on too narrow a set of information. I have in several earlier articles used the opportunity to perform research and write to deepen my own knowledge of the issues and share with the list members. This article rounds out and ties together that effort. I hope you have found this inquiry helpful, as I have, to broaden the understanding of the origins, dissemination and evolution of the divine knowledge of astrology. Thor Cosmologer <cosmologerSAMVA Sent: Mon, October 12, 2009 6:38:08 AMRe: Blog: Greco-Indian astrology Hello my dear VK, With your permission, may these be the final words in the article? Thor SIHA <vkchoudhrySAMVA Sent: Mon, October 12, 2009 2:49:39 AMRe: Blog: Greco-Indian astrology Hello my dear Thor, All ancient knowledge needs changes for the present era. Tracing history is one thing but finding validity is more important. - Cosmologer SAMVA Sunday, October 11, 2009 3:03 PM Re: Blog: Greco-Indian astrology Hello dear list members, I have slightly modified the text here and there for greater accuracy or clarity. I have also added some further information to the article. In sum,- an examination of the Babyloninan, Egyptian, Greek, Roman and Arabic literal record is not giving a comprehensive picture- the historical setting has to be examined- knowledge of Indian texts (in Sanskrit) is still incomplete- oral transmission intra-familia was likely the way that this knowledge was propagated in India in ancient times- the spread to the West after the invasion by Alexander may have been through Indian court-astrologers- the trantric civilization opened up human beings to deeper knowledge, through meditation and true assessment- the fidelity of Indian astrologers with the Ayanamsa correction, the horoscope format and horoscopic astrology in its original form is likely the single greatest clue about the source of this knowledge being India. - despite being continuously modified through astronomy and technique, the divine knowledge depreciated steadily in the West.ConclusionWhile there is literary evidence of works of Greek astrologers in the late Hellenic age, including the transportation of one such book to India in Roman times, this is far from sufficient proof of the origins of horoscopic astrology. Given the caste system, Indian astrologers likely passed down their astrology knowledge intra-familia, avoiding to disseminate it in book form. It is more likely that an oral transmission of Vedic astrology knowledge to the Hellenic world took place, perhaps through Indian court astrologers. After mastering the horoscopic astrology system, the Greek astrologers set about to modify and enhance it with a number of astronomical innovations, a new naming system, a new horoscope format and likely some novel insights. It would have been transcribed by the Greeks and re-exported to India in that form. Understandably, it would have been recognised as a novel contribution by Indian astrologers of that age. Nevertheless, given the monumental contribution of Indian civilization to philosophy and science, it is ahead of us to perform research into the sanskrit texts and other sources to settle this matter once and for all. More importantly, as my friend Rémi stated so well "what is really important is the development of the practitioner' s efficiency in this day and age." This is the chief concern of those applying the System's Approach.Thor Cosmologer <cosmologer >samva Sat, October 10, 2009 1:33:43 PM Blog: Greco-Indian astrology Hello dear list members, I have written the following article. Enjoy! Saturday, October 10, 2009 Greco-Indian astrology Many Western astrologers assume modern Western astrology owes its origins to the discovery of astrology by the ancient Babylonians. They also consider that astrology was further developed by the Egyptians of antiquity before reaching its penultimate stage in the Hellenic world. At the same time, they consider that the astrology of the Hellenic world informed astrology in India. The evidence is strictly based on an interpretation of the literary record. One important anomaly has, however, emerged in this story, which this article explores. To read more: http://cosmologer. blogspot. com/ Thor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 Hello my dear Thor, OK. You can add these to the article. - Cosmologer SAMVA Monday, October 12, 2009 12:08 PM Re: Blog: Greco-Indian astrology Hello my dear VK, With your permission, may these be the final words in the article? Thor SIHA <vkchoudhry >SAMVA Sent: Mon, October 12, 2009 2:49:39 AMRe: Blog: Greco-Indian astrology Hello my dear Thor, All ancient knowledge needs changes for the present era. Tracing history is one thing but finding validity is more important. - Cosmologer SAMVA Sunday, October 11, 2009 3:03 PM Re: Blog: Greco-Indian astrology Hello dear list members, I have slightly modified the text here and there for greater accuracy or clarity. I have also added some further information to the article. In sum,- an examination of the Babyloninan, Egyptian, Greek, Roman and Arabic literal record is not giving a comprehensive picture- the historical setting has to be examined- knowledge of Indian texts (in Sanskrit) is still incomplete- oral transmission intra-familia was likely the way that this knowledge was propagated in India in ancient times- the spread to the West after the invasion by Alexander may have been through Indian court-astrologers- the trantric civilization opened up human beings to deeper knowledge, through meditation and true assessment- the fidelity of Indian astrologers with the Ayanamsa correction, the horoscope format and horoscopic astrology in its original form is likely the single greatest clue about the source of this knowledge being India. - despite being continuously modified through astronomy and technique, the divine knowledge depreciated steadily in the West.ConclusionWhile there is literary evidence of works of Greek astrologers in the late Hellenic age, including the transportation of one such book to India in Roman times, this is far from sufficient proof of the origins of horoscopic astrology. Given the caste system, Indian astrologers likely passed down their astrology knowledge intra-familia, avoiding to disseminate it in book form. It is more likely that an oral transmission of Vedic astrology knowledge to the Hellenic world took place, perhaps through Indian court astrologers. After mastering the horoscopic astrology system, the Greek astrologers set about to modify and enhance it with a number of astronomical innovations, a new naming system, a new horoscope format and likely some novel insights. It would have been transcribed by the Greeks and re-exported to India in that form. Understandably, it would have been recognised as a novel contribution by Indian astrologers of that age. Nevertheless, given the monumental contribution of Indian civilization to philosophy and science, it is ahead of us to perform research into the sanskrit texts and other sources to settle this matter once and for all. More importantly, as my friend Rémi stated so well "what is really important is the development of the practitioner' s efficiency in this day and age." This is the chief concern of those applying the System's Approach.Thor Cosmologer <cosmologer >samva Sat, October 10, 2009 1:33:43 PM Blog: Greco-Indian astrology Hello dear list members, I have written the following article. Enjoy! Saturday, October 10, 2009 Greco-Indian astrology Many Western astrologers assume modern Western astrology owes its origins to the discovery of astrology by the ancient Babylonians. They also consider that astrology was further developed by the Egyptians of antiquity before reaching its penultimate stage in the Hellenic world. At the same time, they consider that the astrology of the Hellenic world informed astrology in India. The evidence is strictly based on an interpretation of the literary record. One important anomaly has, however, emerged in this story, which this article explores. To read more: http://cosmologer. blogspot. com/ Thor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 You`ll find the articles on Zi Wei(chinese astrology) in this site interesting, where the researcher claims that Chinese astrology may have its origins in Vedic systemswww.guiculture.com PJ SAMVA , "SIHA" <vkchoudhry wrote:>> > Hello my dear Thor,> > OK. You can add these to the article.> > > > - > Cosmologer > SAMVA > Monday, October 12, 2009 12:08 PM> Re: Blog: Greco-Indian astrology> > > > Hello my dear VK,> > With your permission, may these be the final words in the article?> > Thor> > > > > > SIHA vkchoudhry SAMVA > Mon, October 12, 2009 2:49:39 AM> Re: Blog: Greco-Indian astrology> > > > > Hello my dear Thor,> > All ancient knowledge needs changes for the present era. Tracing history is one thing but finding validity is more important.> > > > - > Cosmologer > SAMVA > Sunday, October 11, 2009 3:03 PM> Re: Blog: Greco-Indian astrology> > > > > Hello dear list members,> > > I have slightly modified the text here and there for greater accuracy or clarity. I have also added some further information to the article.> > In sum,> - an examination of the Babyloninan, Egyptian, Greek, Roman and Arabic literal record is not giving a comprehensive picture> - the historical setting has to be examined> - knowledge of Indian texts (in Sanskrit) is still incomplete> - oral transmission intra-familia was likely the way that this knowledge was propagated in India in ancient times> - the spread to the West after the invasion by Alexander may have been through Indian court-astrologers> - the trantric civilization opened up human beings to deeper knowledge, through meditation and true assessment> - the fidelity of Indian astrologers with the Ayanamsa correction, the horoscope format and horoscopic astrology in its original form is likely the single greatest clue about the source of this knowledge being India. > - despite being continuously modified through astronomy and technique, the divine knowledge depreciated steadily in the West.> > Conclusion> While there is literary evidence of works of Greek astrologers in the late Hellenic age, including the transportation of one such book to India in Roman times, this is far from sufficient proof of the origins of horoscopic astrology. Given the caste system, Indian astrologers likely passed down their astrology knowledge intra-familia, avoiding to disseminate it in book form. It is more likely that an oral transmission of Vedic astrology knowledge to the Hellenic world took place, perhaps through Indian court astrologers. After mastering the horoscopic astrology system, the Greek astrologers set about to modify and enhance it with a number of astronomical innovations, a new naming system, a new horoscope format and likely some novel insights. It would have been transcribed by the Greeks and re-exported to India in that form. Understandably, it would have been recognised as a novel contribution by Indian astrologers of that age. Nevertheless, given the monumental contribution of Indian civilization to philosophy and science, it is ahead of us to perform research into the sanskrit texts and other sources to settle this matter once and for all. More importantly, as my friend Rémi stated so well "what is really important is the development of the practitioner' s efficiency in this day and age." This is the chief concern of those applying the System's Approach.> > Thor> > > > > ----------> Cosmologer cosmologer >> samva > Sat, October 10, 2009 1:33:43 PM> Blog: Greco-Indian astrology> > > > > Hello dear list members,> > I have written the following article. Enjoy!> > Saturday, October 10, 2009> Greco-Indian astrology > Many Western astrologers assume modern Western astrology owes its origins to the discovery of astrology by the ancient Babylonians. They also consider that astrology was further developed by the Egyptians of antiquity before reaching its penultimate stage in the Hellenic world. At the same time, they consider that the astrology of the Hellenic world informed astrology in India. The evidence is strictly based on an interpretation of the literary record. One important anomaly has, however, emerged in this story, which this article explores. > To read more:> http://cosmologer. blogspot. com/> > Thor> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 Dear Thor… Thank you for all of your work on this article. As always, your posts are brilliant! Thank you. David Hawthorne SAMVA [sAMVA ] On Behalf Of Cosmologer Monday, October 12, 2009 7:34 AM SAMVA Re: Blog: Greco-Indian astrology Hello dear list members, I think the article is now in its final form. Several additions and improvements have been made to it, given also feedback from interested list members. Thanks. Greco-Indian astrology (October 10, 2009) http://cosmologer.blogspot.com/2009/10/greco-indian-astrology.html As a background information, let me add that I felt it important to react to the conclusion of some Western astrologers that horoscopic astrology was invented by the Greeks and transmitted to India. The conclusion seemed to contradict a lot of what I knew from history and to be based on too narrow a set of information. I have in several earlier articles used the opportunity to perform research and write to deepen my own knowledge of the issues and share with the list members. This article rounds out and ties together that effort. I hope you have found this inquiry helpful, as I have, to broaden the understanding of the origins, dissemination and evolution of the divine knowledge of astrology. Thor Cosmologer <cosmologer SAMVA Mon, October 12, 2009 6:38:08 AM Re: Blog: Greco-Indian astrology Hello my dear VK, With your permission, may these be the final words in the article? Thor SIHA <vkchoudhry SAMVA Mon, October 12, 2009 2:49:39 AM Re: Blog: Greco-Indian astrology Hello my dear Thor, All ancient knowledge needs changes for the present era. Tracing history is one thing but finding validity is more important. ----- Original Message ----- Cosmologer SAMVA Sunday, October 11, 2009 3:03 PM Re: Blog: Greco-Indian astrology Hello dear list members, I have slightly modified the text here and there for greater accuracy or clarity. I have also added some further information to the article. In sum, - an examination of the Babyloninan, Egyptian, Greek, Roman and Arabic literal record is not giving a comprehensive picture - the historical setting has to be examined - knowledge of Indian texts (in Sanskrit) is still incomplete - oral transmission intra-familia was likely the way that this knowledge was propagated in India in ancient times - the spread to the West after the invasion by Alexander may have been through Indian court-astrologers - the trantric civilization opened up human beings to deeper knowledge, through meditation and true assessment - the fidelity of Indian astrologers with the Ayanamsa correction, the horoscope format and horoscopic astrology in its original form is likely the single greatest clue about the source of this knowledge being India. - despite being continuously modified through astronomy and technique, the divine knowledge depreciated steadily in the West. Conclusion While there is literary evidence of works of Greek astrologers in the late Hellenic age, including the transportation of one such book to India in Roman times, this is far from sufficient proof of the origins of horoscopic astrology. Given the caste system, Indian astrologers likely passed down their astrology knowledge intra-familia, avoiding to disseminate it in book form. It is more likely that an oral transmission of Vedic astrology knowledge to the Hellenic world took place, perhaps through Indian court astrologers. After mastering the horoscopic astrology system, the Greek astrologers set about to modify and enhance it with a number of astronomical innovations, a new naming system, a new horoscope format and likely some novel insights. It would have been transcribed by the Greeks and re-exported to India in that form. Understandably, it would have been recognised as a novel contribution by Indian astrologers of that age. Nevertheless, given the monumental contribution of Indian civilization to philosophy and science, it is ahead of us to perform research into the sanskrit texts and other sources to settle this matter once and for all. More importantly, as my friend Rémi stated so well " what is really important is the development of the practitioner' s efficiency in this day and age. " This is the chief concern of those applying the System's Approach. Thor Cosmologer <cosmologer > samva Sat, October 10, 2009 1:33:43 PM Blog: Greco-Indian astrology Hello dear list members, I have written the following article. Enjoy! Saturday, October 10, 2009 Greco-Indian astrology Many Western astrologers assume modern Western astrology owes its origins to the discovery of astrology by the ancient Babylonians. They also consider that astrology was further developed by the Egyptians of antiquity before reaching its penultimate stage in the Hellenic world. At the same time, they consider that the astrology of the Hellenic world informed astrology in India. The evidence is strictly based on an interpretation of the literary record. One important anomaly has, however, emerged in this story, which this article explores. To read more: http://cosmologer. blogspot. com/ Thor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 Hello PJ Yes, it is interesting. Thanks. http://www.guiculture.com/fs08asindwestchin.htm Thor SAMVA , " ziping777 " <ziping777 wrote: > > > > You`ll find the articles on Zi Wei(chinese astrology) in this site > interesting, where the researcher claims that Chinese astrology may have > its origins in Vedic systems > www.guiculture.com <http://www.guiculture.com> > > PJ > > > SAMVA , " SIHA " <vkchoudhry@> wrote: > > > > > > Hello my dear Thor, > > > > OK. You can add these to the article. > > > > > > > > - > > Cosmologer > > SAMVA > > Monday, October 12, 2009 12:08 PM > > Re: Blog: Greco-Indian astrology > > > > > > > > Hello my dear VK, > > > > With your permission, may these be the final words in the article? > > > > Thor > > > > > > > > > > > ------\ > ------ > > SIHA vkchoudhry@ > > SAMVA > > Mon, October 12, 2009 2:49:39 AM > > Re: Blog: Greco-Indian astrology > > > > > > > > > > Hello my dear Thor, > > > > All ancient knowledge needs changes for the present era. Tracing > history is one thing but finding validity is more important. > > > > > > > > - > > Cosmologer > > SAMVA > > Sunday, October 11, 2009 3:03 PM > > Re: Blog: Greco-Indian astrology > > > > > > > > > > Hello dear list members, > > > > > > I have slightly modified the text here and there for greater accuracy > or clarity. I have also added some further information to the article. > > > > In sum, > > - an examination of the Babyloninan, Egyptian, Greek, Roman and Arabic > literal record is not giving a comprehensive picture > > - the historical setting has to be examined > > - knowledge of Indian texts (in Sanskrit) is still incomplete > > - oral transmission intra-familia was likely the way that this > knowledge was propagated in India in ancient times > > - the spread to the West after the invasion by Alexander may have been > through Indian court-astrologers > > - the trantric civilization opened up human beings to deeper > knowledge, through meditation and true assessment > > - the fidelity of Indian astrologers with the Ayanamsa correction, the > horoscope format and horoscopic astrology in its original form is likely > the single greatest clue about the source of this knowledge being India. > > - despite being continuously modified through astronomy and technique, > the divine knowledge depreciated steadily in the West. > > > > Conclusion > > While there is literary evidence of works of Greek astrologers in the > late Hellenic age, including the transportation of one such book to > India in Roman times, this is far from sufficient proof of the origins > of horoscopic astrology. Given the caste system, Indian astrologers > likely passed down their astrology knowledge intra-familia, avoiding to > disseminate it in book form. It is more likely that an oral transmission > of Vedic astrology knowledge to the Hellenic world took place, perhaps > through Indian court astrologers. After mastering the horoscopic > astrology system, the Greek astrologers set about to modify and enhance > it with a number of astronomical innovations, a new naming system, a new > horoscope format and likely some novel insights. It would have been > transcribed by the Greeks and re-exported to India in that form. > Understandably, it would have been recognised as a novel contribution by > Indian astrologers of that age. Nevertheless, given the monumental > contribution of Indian civilization to philosophy and science, it is > ahead of us to perform research into the sanskrit texts and other > sources to settle this matter once and for all. More importantly, as my > friend Rémi stated so well " what is really important is the > development of the practitioner' s efficiency in this day and age. " This > is the chief concern of those applying the System's Approach. > > > > Thor > > > > > > > > > > > ------\ > ---- > > Cosmologer cosmologer > > > samva > > Sat, October 10, 2009 1:33:43 PM > > Blog: Greco-Indian astrology > > > > > > > > > > Hello dear list members, > > > > I have written the following article. Enjoy! > > > > Saturday, October 10, 2009 > > Greco-Indian astrology > > Many Western astrologers assume modern Western astrology owes its > origins to the discovery of astrology by the ancient Babylonians. They > also consider that astrology was further developed by the Egyptians of > antiquity before reaching its penultimate stage in the Hellenic world. > At the same time, they consider that the astrology of the Hellenic world > informed astrology in India. The evidence is strictly based on an > interpretation of the literary record. One important anomaly has, > however, emerged in this story, which this article explores. > > To read more: > > http://cosmologer. blogspot. com/ > > > > Thor > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 Dear David, Thank you for the kind words, which I value and appreciate. You are most welcome. Thor David Hawthorne <davidSAMVA Sent: Mon, October 12, 2009 5:30:24 PMRE: Blog: Greco-Indian astrology Dear Thor… Thank you for all of your work on this article. As always, your posts are brilliant! Thank you. David Hawthorne SAMVA [sAMVA ] On Behalf Of CosmologerMonday, October 12, 2009 7:34 AMSAMVA Subject: Re: Blog: Greco-Indian astrology Hello dear list members, I think the article is now in its final form. Several additions and improvements have been made to it, given also feedback from interested list members. Thanks. Greco-Indian astrology (October 10, 2009) http://cosmologer.blogspot.com/2009/10/greco-indian-astrology.html As a background information, let me add that I felt it important to react to the conclusion of some Western astrologers that horoscopic astrology was invented by the Greeks and transmitted to India. The conclusion seemed to contradict a lot of what I knew from history and to be based on too narrow a set of information. I have in several earlier articles used the opportunity to perform research and write to deepen my own knowledge of the issues and share with the list members. This article rounds out and ties together that effort. I hope you have found this inquiry helpful, as I have, to broaden the understanding of the origins, dissemination and evolution of the divine knowledge of astrology. Thor Cosmologer <cosmologerSAMVA Sent: Mon, October 12, 2009 6:38:08 AMRe: Blog: Greco-Indian astrology Hello my dear VK, With your permission, may these be the final words in the article? Thor SIHA <vkchoudhrySAMVA Sent: Mon, October 12, 2009 2:49:39 AMRe: Blog: Greco-Indian astrology Hello my dear Thor, All ancient knowledge needs changes for the present era. Tracing history is one thing but finding validity is more important. - Cosmologer SAMVA Sunday, October 11, 2009 3:03 PM Re: Blog: Greco-Indian astrology Hello dear list members, I have slightly modified the text here and there for greater accuracy or clarity. I have also added some further information to the article. In sum,- an examination of the Babyloninan, Egyptian, Greek, Roman and Arabic literal record is not giving a comprehensive picture- the historical setting has to be examined- knowledge of Indian texts (in Sanskrit) is still incomplete- oral transmission intra-familia was likely the way that this knowledge was propagated in India in ancient times- the spread to the West after the invasion by Alexander may have been through Indian court-astrologers- the trantric civilization opened up human beings to deeper knowledge, through meditation and true assessment- the fidelity of Indian astrologers with the Ayanamsa correction, the horoscope format and horoscopic astrology in its original form is likely the single greatest clue about the source of this knowledge being India. - despite being continuously modified through astronomy and technique, the divine knowledge depreciated steadily in the West.ConclusionWhile there is literary evidence of works of Greek astrologers in the late Hellenic age, including the transportation of one such book to India in Roman times, this is far from sufficient proof of the origins of horoscopic astrology. Given the caste system, Indian astrologers likely passed down their astrology knowledge intra-familia, avoiding to disseminate it in book form. It is more likely that an oral transmission of Vedic astrology knowledge to the Hellenic world took place, perhaps through Indian court astrologers. After mastering the horoscopic astrology system, the Greek astrologers set about to modify and enhance it with a number of astronomical innovations, a new naming system, a new horoscope format and likely some novel insights. It would have been transcribed by the Greeks and re-exported to India in that form. Understandably, it would have been recognised as a novel contribution by Indian astrologers of that age. Nevertheless, given the monumental contribution of Indian civilization to philosophy and science, it is ahead of us to perform research into the sanskrit texts and other sources to settle this matter once and for all. More importantly, as my friend Rémi stated so well "what is really important is the development of the practitioner' s efficiency in this day and age." This is the chief concern of those applying the System's Approach.Thor Cosmologer <cosmologer >samva Sat, October 10, 2009 1:33:43 PM Blog: Greco-Indian astrology Hello dear list members, I have written the following article. Enjoy! Saturday, October 10, 2009 Greco-Indian astrology Many Western astrologers assume modern Western astrology owes its origins to the discovery of astrology by the ancient Babylonians. They also consider that astrology was further developed by the Egyptians of antiquity before reaching its penultimate stage in the Hellenic world. At the same time, they consider that the astrology of the Hellenic world informed astrology in India. The evidence is strictly based on an interpretation of the literary record. One important anomaly has, however, emerged in this story, which this article explores. To read more: http://cosmologer. blogspot. com/ Thor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 Hello dear list members, To give a little bit more flavour of actual astrology in this blog, I've added two diagrams. This is intended for those with hardly any knowledge of Vedic astrology or SA. Vedic astrologyIn India, the birth chart is known as a Kundli or Rasi chart, while the rising sign is called the Lagna. The term for astrology is Jyotisha, meaning the ‘science of light’. The astrology of India is alternately called Indian astrology, Hindu astrology or Vedic astrology. The term Indian reflects the geographic location of the astrology. The term Hindu represents the modern cultural expression of the astrology. Meanwhile, Vedic reflects the ancient tantric philosophy of this type of astrology. In the Vedas, astrology was considered the sixth limb of enlightenment knowledge. The cosmology of the Vedas is arguably the most important ingredient of astrology, including the 'law of karma'. In fact, the planets, grahas, represent the accumulated karma of the soul, to be expressed in the life, but giving scope for the expression of our 'free will'. Hence, the term Vedic astrology is preferred. Vedic astrology is still practiced today, much like it was many thousands of years ago. It is the modern system of horoscopic astrology closest to that practiced in the Hellenic world.Houses and their meaningA crucial ingredient of horoscopic astrology is the concept of houses. The logic of houses is critically tied to the ascendant. While the meaning of signs and planets is well established, the role of houses is important to show the areas of life where the influences of the planets and signs manifest. The rising sign is considered to be the first and most important house as it represents the person. The others houses, which represent key areas of the life, are counted from the sign falling in the first house. The houses have been identified to have the following meaning.First house represents the self in this life, e.g. personality, physical attributes, fame, well being, etc.Second house represents the resources at the disposal of the person, e.g. family, wealth, status, etcThird house represents the efforts of the person, e.g. younger siblings, actions, speech, courage, etc.Fourth house represents the interests in the life, e.g., mother, education, inner harmony, home, etc.Fifth house represents the creativity in the life, e.g. children, romance, speculation, trading, etc.Sixth house represents the opposition in life, e.g. fixity of views, enemies, debts, health, conflict, etc.Seventh house represents the partner in life, e.g. husband/wife, foreign trips, leisure, etc.Eight house represents endings in life, e.g. obstacles, death, inheritance, fathers income, beliefs, etc.Ninth house represents support in life, e.g. father, guidance, higher thought, fortune, luck, new or foreign things, etc.Tenth house represents the career of the person, e.g. profession, public activities, fame, etc.Eleventh house represents the goals of the person, e.g. elder brother, friends, plans, hopes, ideals, income, etc.Twelfth house represents separation in the life, e.g. grand father, losses, far away places, imprisonment, etc. Systems' ApproachThe logic of house rulerships by the planets is also unique for each ascendant and this is the essence of the Systems' Approach (SA) to vedic astrology. The planet 'ruling' a Moolatrikona (MT) sign becomes a functional ruler of the house that the MT sign falls into. In addition to its general nature, the planet carries with it, more importantly, a functional nature of the particular house its MT sign falls in. The other sign a planet may 'own' and the house it falls in becomes less important for the overall horoscopic interpretation. That said, whatever house a planet resides in, its functional and general indications get expressed in that area of the life.Importantly, the dynamic changes for each ascendant. Those with the sign Aries rising are expected to approach life differently than those with say the sign Virgo rising. Mars becomes 1st lord for Aries while Mercury becomes 1st lord for Virgo. By comparison Mars becomes 6th lord for Scorpio ascendants and Mercury becomes 4th lord for Gemini's and this means the planets take on a different functional meaning for these ascendants. There are many more considerations for a horoscopic reading based on SA vedic astrology, but this gives some sense of the logic.http://cosmologer.blogspot.com/2009/10/greco-indian-astrology.html Thor Cosmologer <cosmologersamva Sent: Sat, October 10, 2009 1:33:43 PM Blog: Greco-Indian astrology Hello dear list members, I have written the following article. Enjoy! Saturday, October 10, 2009 Greco-Indian astrology Many Western astrologers assume modern Western astrology owes its origins to the discovery of astrology by the ancient Babylonians. They also consider that astrology was further developed by the Egyptians of antiquity before reaching its penultimate stage in the Hellenic world. At the same time, they consider that the astrology of the Hellenic world informed astrology in India. The evidence is strictly based on an interpretation of the literary record. One important anomaly has, however, emerged in this story, which this article explores. To read more: http://cosmologer.blogspot.com/ Thor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 Hello dear and list members, I've further added (in bold): The planet 'ruling' a Moolatrikona (MT) sign becomes a functional ruler of the house that the MT sign falls into. The term 'moola' means root and 'trikona' means trine. The term may be considered to mean the 'source of influence'. In addition to its general nature, the planet carries with it, more importantly, a functional nature of the particular house its MT sign falls in. What do you think? Thor Cosmologer <cosmologerSAMVA Sent: Wed, October 14, 2009 8:50:03 AMRe: Blog: Greco-Indian astrology Hello dear list members, To give a little bit more flavour of actual astrology in this blog, I've added two diagrams. This is intended for those with hardly any knowledge of Vedic astrology or SA. Vedic astrologyIn India, the birth chart is known as a Kundli or Rasi chart, while the rising sign is called the Lagna. The term for astrology is Jyotisha, meaning the ‘science of light’. The astrology of India is alternately called Indian astrology, Hindu astrology or Vedic astrology. The term Indian reflects the geographic location of the astrology. The term Hindu represents the modern cultural expression of the astrology. Meanwhile, Vedic reflects the ancient tantric philosophy of this type of astrology. In the Vedas, astrology was considered the sixth limb of enlightenment knowledge. The cosmology of the Vedas is arguably the most important ingredient of astrology, including the 'law of karma'. In fact, the planets, grahas, represent the accumulated karma of the soul, to be expressed in the life, but giving scope for the expression of our 'free will'. Hence, the term Vedic astrology is preferred. Vedic astrology is still practiced today, much like it was many thousands of years ago. It is the modern system of horoscopic astrology closest to that practiced in the Hellenic world.Houses and their meaningA crucial ingredient of horoscopic astrology is the concept of houses. The logic of houses is critically tied to the ascendant. While the meaning of signs and planets is well established, the role of houses is important to show the areas of life where the influences of the planets and signs manifest. The rising sign is considered to be the first and most important house as it represents the person. The others houses, which represent key areas of the life, are counted from the sign falling in the first house. The houses have been identified to have the following meaning.First house represents the self in this life, e.g. personality, physical attributes, fame, well being, etc.Second house represents the resources at the disposal of the person, e.g. family, wealth, status, etcThird house represents the efforts of the person, e.g. younger siblings, actions, speech, courage, etc.Fourth house represents the interests in the life, e.g., mother, education, inner harmony, home, etc.Fifth house represents the creativity in the life, e.g. children, romance, speculation, trading, etc.Sixth house represents the opposition in life, e.g. fixity of views, enemies, debts, health, conflict, etc.Seventh house represents the partner in life, e.g. husband/wife, foreign trips, leisure, etc.Eight house represents endings in life, e.g. obstacles, death, inheritance, fathers income, beliefs, etc.Ninth house represents support in life, e.g. father, guidance, higher thought, fortune, luck, new or foreign things, etc.Tenth house represents the career of the person, e.g. profession, public activities, fame, etc.Eleventh house represents the goals of the person, e.g. elder brother, friends, plans, hopes, ideals, income, etc.Twelfth house represents separation in the life, e.g. grand father, losses, far away places, imprisonment, etc. Systems' ApproachThe logic of house rulerships by the planets is also unique for each ascendant and this is the essence of the Systems' Approach (SA) to vedic astrology. The planet 'ruling' a Moolatrikona (MT) sign becomes a functional ruler of the house that the MT sign falls into. In addition to its general nature, the planet carries with it, more importantly, a functional nature of the particular house its MT sign falls in. The other sign a planet may 'own' and the house it falls in becomes less important for the overall horoscopic interpretation. That said, whatever house a planet resides in, its functional and general indications get expressed in that area of the life.Importantly, the dynamic changes for each ascendant. Those with the sign Aries rising are expected to approach life differently than those with say the sign Virgo rising. Mars becomes 1st lord for Aries while Mercury becomes 1st lord for Virgo. By comparison Mars becomes 6th lord for Scorpio ascendants and Mercury becomes 4th lord for Gemini's and this means the planets take on a different functional meaning for these ascendants. There are many more considerations for a horoscopic reading based on SA vedic astrology, but this gives some sense of the logic.http://cosmologer.blogspot.com/2009/10/greco-indian-astrology.html Thor Cosmologer <cosmologersamva Sent: Sat, October 10, 2009 1:33:43 PM Blog: Greco-Indian astrology Hello dear list members, I have written the following article. Enjoy! Saturday, October 10, 2009 Greco-Indian astrology Many Western astrologers assume modern Western astrology owes its origins to the discovery of astrology by the ancient Babylonians. They also consider that astrology was further developed by the Egyptians of antiquity before reaching its penultimate stage in the Hellenic world. At the same time, they consider that the astrology of the Hellenic world informed astrology in India. The evidence is strictly based on an interpretation of the literary record. One important anomaly has, however, emerged in this story, which this article explores. To read more: http://cosmologer.blogspot.com/ Thor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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