Guest guest Posted November 9, 2003 Report Share Posted November 9, 2003 HARE RAMA KRISHNA Dear List and Jk, The chara Karaka replacement principle was discussed very recently in a workshop by Sanjay ji and yesterday Visti happened to clarify the same to me in detail.Since JK brought the question up in his recent email, Visti suggested that I explain the principle. Chara karakas get replaced when they fall in the same degree. The planet with the lower degree loses its chara karakatwa and moves up the ladder. As a result the planet with the higher degree drops off the chara karaka list.For example, if the Atmakaraka and Amatyakaraka share the same longitude but differ only by a few minutes, at some point, the Amtyakaraka ascends to act as the Atmakaraka and the planet that was acting as the Atmakaraka completely moves out of the picture. The empty slot of the Amatyakaraka is filled by the sthira Amatyakaraka. If the sthira karaka is weak, the relative of the native represented by the planet lose their longevity. For example if the slot of Darakaraka is filled by the Sthira Darakaraka Venus, and Venus is weak in the chart, the longevity of the Spouse(in the case of males) can be affected. After having ascertained grahas occupying the same degree, here are the steps: i) The Graha with a lower Chara Karakatwa is going to replace the higher. ii) As a result the lower Chara Karakatwa is going to disappear, in favor of a higher Karakatwa. iii) See the Sthira Karaka of the disappeared Chara Karakatwa and see its strength. A good example of Chara Karaka replacement is in the case of the late prime minister of India, Indira Gandhi. The details of Karakas are given below and we find that Saturn is the AK posited in lagna and Venus is the Amatyakaraka posited in the sixth house with Rahu. Both Saturn and Venus share the longitude, of 21 Degrees.At the natural age of Saturn, i.e 36,Saturn moved out of the picture and Venus took up the role of Atmakaraka(I am not certain about the timing as to whether it was the natural age of Venus or Saturn). It was observed that the native initially was never interested in politics and was very family and tradition bound. These are clear signs of the influence of Saturn as Atmakaraka. She was infact very attached and devoted to her husband. But once Venus took over as Atmakaraka,there was a 180 degree turn and she got into politics at the cost of her family.Venus is placed in the sixth with Rahu and she was a good administrator(Venus) but also had the influence of Rahu.There are other influences in the chart like that of the parivarthana between Jupiter and Venus that explain the role of the ninth lord(Father) who was the reason for her entry into politics.Now Venus is also in a 2/12 relationship with the Sun who is the chara darakaraka. Sanjay ji suggested that we could use Naisargika Dasa to time these changes incombination with the natural age of planets.However, we didnt get into details and this is a topic for further research and of course the mercy of Sanjay ji. I request Visti to add or correct the above if needed. Hare Krishna Sudharsan Indira Gandhi Natal Chart November 19, 1917Time: 11:07:00 pmTime Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT)Place: 81 E 52' 00", 25 N 28' 00" Edison, New Jersey, USAAltitude: 160.00 meters Lunar Yr-Mo: Pingala - KarthikaTithi: Sukla Shashthi (Ve) (88.15% left)Vedic Weekday: Monday (Mo)Nakshatra: Uttarashadha (Su) (33.38% left)Yoga: Ganda (Sa)Karana: Kaulava (Ma)Hora Lord: Jupiter (5 min sign: Le)Mahakala Hora: Mars (5 min sign: Ar)Kaala Lord: Saturn (Mahakala: Saturn) Sunrise: 6:22:23 amSunset: 5:12:22 pmJanma Ghatis: 41.8592 Ayanamsa: 22-42-54.40Sidereal Time: 2:57:10 Body Longitude Nakshatra Pada Rasi Navamsa Lagna 26 Cn 30' 54.66" Asre 3 Cn AqSun - DK 4 Sc 07' 39.45" Anu 1 Sc LeMoon - GK 5 Cp 32' 57.86" USha 3 Cp AqMars - MK 16 Le 22' 39.05" PPha 1 Le LeMercury - PK 13 Sc 14' 13.92" Anu 3 Sc LiJupiter ® - PiK 14 Ta 59' 54.96" Rohi 2 Ta TaVenus - AmK 21 Sg 00' 23.54" PSha 3 Sg LiSaturn - AK 21 Cn 47' 14.55" Asre 2 Cn CpRahu - BK 10 Sg 33' 54.70" Mool 4 Sg CnKetu 10 Ge 33' 54.70" Ardr 2 Ge CpMaandi 11 Ge 21' 52.00" Ardr 2 Ge CpGulika 29 Ta 54' 51.50" Mrig 2 Ta ViUranus 27 Cp 15' 15.47" Dhan 2 Cp ViNeptune ® 14 Cn 22' 00.67" Push 4 Cn ScPluto ® 12 Ge 27' 16.92" Ardr 2 Ge CpBhava Lagna 14 Cn 34' 41.66" Push 4 Cn ScHora Lagna 25 Pi 43' 59.98" Reva 3 Pi AqGhati Lagna 29 Ar 11' 54.95" Krit 1 Ar SgVighati Lagna 16 Li 31' 29.82" Swat 3 Li AqVarnada Lagna 22 Cn 14' 54.64" Asre 2 Cn CpSree Lagna 26 Pi 20' 56.86" Reva 3 Pi AqPranapada Lagna 17 Ge 13' 45.94" Ardr 4 Ge PiIndu Lagna 5 Ge 32' 57.86" Mrig 4 Ge ScDhooma 17 Pi 27' 39.45" Reva 1 Pi SgVyatipata 12 Ar 32' 20.55" Aswi 4 Ar CnParivesha 12 Li 32' 20.55" Swat 2 Li CpIndra Chapa 17 Vi 27' 39.45" Hast 3 Vi GeUpaketu 4 Li 07' 39.45" Chit 4 Li ScKaala 24 Cn 37' 00.87" Asre 3 Cn AqMrityu 8 Vi 47' 45.44" UPha 4 Vi PiArtha Prahara 1 Li 03' 52.96" Chit 3 Li LiYama Ghantaka 22 Li 51' 56.34" Visa 1 Li ArPrana Sphuta 12 Cp 29' 24.80" Srav 1 Cp ArDeha Sphuta 14 Cn 18' 34.37" Push 4 Cn ScMrityu Sphuta 3 Cp 31' 39.93" USha 3 Cp AqTrisphuta 0 Aq 19' 39.10" Dhan 3 Aq LiV2 22 Vi 14' 54.64" Hast 4 Vi CnV3 22 Sc 14' 54.64" Jye 2 Sc CpV4 22 Cp 14' 54.64" Srav 4 Cp CnV5 22 Pi 14' 54.64" Reva 2 Pi CpV6 22 Ta 14' 54.64" Rohi 4 Ta CnV7 22 Cn 14' 54.64" Asre 2 Cn CpV8 22 Vi 14' 54.64" Hast 4 Vi CnV9 22 Sc 14' 54.64" Jye 2 Sc CpV10 22 Cp 14' 54.64" Srav 4 Cp CnV11 22 Pi 14' 54.64" Reva 2 Pi CpV12 22 Ta 14' 54.64" Rohi 4 Ta CnKunda 17 Ge 43' 47.51" Ardr 4 Ge Pi +--------------+|HL |GL AL |JuR Gk |Ke Md || | | | || | | | || | | | || | | | ||-----------+-----------------------+-----------|| | |As Sa || | | || | | || | | || | | ||-----------| Rasi |-----------||Mo | |Ma || | | || | | || | | || | | ||-----------+-----------------------+-----------||Ve Ra |Su Me | | || | | | || | | | || | | | || | | | |+--------------+ +--------------+| | |JuR | || | | | || | | | || | | | || | | | ||-----------+-----------------------+-----------||As Mo | |Ra ||HL | | || | | || | | || | | ||-----------| Navamsa |-----------||Sa Ke | |Su Ma ||Md | | || | | || | | || | | ||-----------+-----------------------+-----------||GL AL | |Me Ve |Gk || | | | || | | | || | | | || | | | |+--------------+ Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): Sun Sun 1913-11-20 Moon 1914-03-07 Mars 1914-09-09 Rah 1915-01-13 Jup 1915-12-09 Sat 1916-09-27 Merc 1917-09-09 Ket 1918-07-15 Ven 1918-11-21 Moon Moon 1919-11-21 Mars 1920-09-21 Rah 1921-04-18 Jup 1922-10-22 Sat 1924-02-18 Merc 1925-09-21 Ket 1927-02-17 Ven 1927-09-22 Sun 1929-05-19 Mars Mars 1929-11-21 Rah 1930-04-15 Jup 1931-05-04 Sat 1932-04-09 Merc 1933-05-19 Ket 1934-05-16 Ven 1934-10-16 Sun 1935-12-15 Moon 1936-04-18 Rah Rah 1936-11-20 Jup 1939-08-03 Sat 1941-12-26 Merc 1944-11-02 Ket 1947-05-20 Ven 1948-06-07 Sun 1951-06-08 Moon 1952-04-30 Mars 1953-11-03 Jup Jup 1954-11-21 Sat 1957-01-07 Merc 1959-07-22 Ket 1961-10-28 Ven 1962-10-04 Sun 1965-06-01 Moon 1966-03-19 Mars 1967-07-22 Rah 1968-06-26 Sat Sat 1970-11-21 Merc 1973-11-24 Ket 1976-08-03 Ven 1977-09-12 Sun 1980-11-12 Moon 1981-10-25 Mars 1983-05-23 Rah 1984-07-02 Jup 1987-05-08 Merc Merc 1989-11-21 Ket 1992-04-15 Ven 1993-04-13 Sun 1996-02-12 Moon 1996-12-20 Mars 1998-05-20 Rah 1999-05-17 Jup 2001-12-06 Sat 2004-03-10 Ket Ket 2006-11-21 Ven 2007-04-16 Sun 2008-06-17 Moon 2008-10-25 Mars 2009-05-23 Rah 2009-10-22 Jup 2010-11-09 Sat 2011-10-17 Merc 2012-11-24 Ven Ven 2013-11-21 Sun 2017-03-19 Moon 2018-03-20 Mars 2019-11-22 Rah 2021-01-19 Jup 2024-01-20 Sat 2026-09-22 Merc 2029-11-21 Ket 2032-09-22 Please Chant ---- HARE KRISHNA HARE KRISHNA KRISHNA KRISHNA HARE HARE HARE RAMA HARE RAMA RAMA RAMA HARE HARE and Be happy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2003 Report Share Posted November 9, 2003 |Hare Rama Krishna| Dear Sudharsan, Very good. The replacement started in natural year of Venus, and ended/finalized in the natural year of Saturn. Best wishes, Visti. Sudharsan Srinivasan [sudhar108] Sunday, November 09, 2003 12:52 AM To: vedic astrology ; varahamihira |Sri Varaha| Chara Karaka Replacement HARE RAMA KRISHNA Dear List and Jk, The chara Karaka replacement principle was discussed very recently in a workshop by Sanjay ji and yesterday Visti happened to clarify the same to me in detail.Since JK brought the question up in his recent email, Visti suggested that I explain the principle. Chara karakas get replaced when they fall in the same degree. The planet with the lower degree loses its chara karakatwa and moves up the ladder. As a result the planet with the higher degree drops off the chara karaka list.For example, if the Atmakaraka and Amatyakaraka share the same longitude but differ only by a few minutes, at some point, the Amtyakaraka ascends to act as the Atmakaraka and the planet that was acting as the Atmakaraka completely moves out of the picture. The empty slot of the Amatyakaraka is filled by the sthira Amatyakaraka. If the sthira karaka is weak, the relative of the native represented by the planet lose their longevity. For example if the slot of Darakaraka is filled by the Sthira Darakaraka Venus, and Venus is weak in the chart, the longevity of the Spouse(in the case of males) can be affected. After having ascertained grahas occupying the same degree, here are the steps: i) The Graha with a lower Chara Karakatwa is going to replace the higher. ii) As a result the lower Chara Karakatwa is going to disappear, in favor of a higher Karakatwa. iii) See the Sthira Karaka of the disappeared Chara Karakatwa and see its strength. A good example of Chara Karaka replacement is in the case of the late prime minister of India, Indira Gandhi. The details of Karakas are given below and we find that Saturn is the AK posited in lagna and Venus is the Amatyakaraka posited in the sixth house with Rahu. Both Saturn and Venus share the longitude, of 21 Degrees.At the natural age of Saturn, i.e 36,Saturn moved out of the picture and Venus took up the role of Atmakaraka(I am not certain about the timing as to whether it was the natural age of Venus or Saturn). It was observed that the native initially was never interested in politics and was very family and tradition bound. These are clear signs of the influence of Saturn as Atmakaraka. She was infact very attached and devoted to her husband. But once Venus took over as Atmakaraka,there was a 180 degree turn and she got into politics at the cost of her family.Venus is placed in the sixth with Rahu and she was a good administrator(Venus) but also had the influence of Rahu.There are other influences in the chart like that of the parivarthana between Jupiter and Venus that explain the role of the ninth lord(Father) who was the reason for her entry into politics.Now Venus is also in a 2/12 relationship with the Sun who is the chara darakaraka. Sanjay ji suggested that we could use Naisargika Dasa to time these changes incombination with the natural age of planets.However, we didnt get into details and this is a topic for further research and of course the mercy of Sanjay ji. I request Visti to add or correct the above if needed. Hare Krishna Sudharsan Indira Gandhi Natal Chart November 19, 1917 Time: 11:07:00 pm Time Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT) Place: 81 E 52' 00 " , 25 N 28' 00 " Edison, New Jersey, USA Altitude: 160.00 meters Lunar Yr-Mo: Pingala - Karthika Tithi: Sukla Shashthi (Ve) (88.15% left) Vedic Weekday: Monday (Mo) Nakshatra: Uttarashadha (Su) (33.38% left) Yoga: Ganda (Sa) Karana: Kaulava (Ma) Hora Lord: Jupiter (5 min sign: Le) Mahakala Hora: Mars (5 min sign: Ar) Kaala Lord: Saturn (Mahakala: Saturn) Sunrise: 6:22:23 am Sunset: 5:12:22 pm Janma Ghatis: 41.8592 Ayanamsa: 22-42-54.40 Sidereal Time: 2:57:10 Body Longitude Nakshatra Pada Rasi Navamsa Lagna 26 Cn 30' 54.66 " Asre 3 Cn Aq Sun - DK 4 Sc 07' 39.45 " Anu 1 Sc Le Moon - GK 5 Cp 32' 57.86 " USha 3 Cp Aq Mars - MK 16 Le 22' 39.05 " PPha 1 Le Le Mercury - PK 13 Sc 14' 13.92 " Anu 3 Sc Li Jupiter ® - PiK 14 Ta 59' 54.96 " Rohi 2 Ta Ta Venus - AmK 21 Sg 00' 23.54 " PSha 3 Sg Li Saturn - AK 21 Cn 47' 14.55 " Asre 2 Cn Cp Rahu - BK 10 Sg 33' 54.70 " Mool 4 Sg Cn Ketu 10 Ge 33' 54.70 " Ardr 2 Ge Cp Maandi 11 Ge 21' 52.00 " Ardr 2 Ge Cp Gulika 29 Ta 54' 51.50 " Mrig 2 Ta Vi Uranus 27 Cp 15' 15.47 " Dhan 2 Cp Vi Neptune ® 14 Cn 22' 00.67 " Push 4 Cn Sc Pluto ® 12 Ge 27' 16.92 " Ardr 2 Ge Cp Bhava Lagna 14 Cn 34' 41.66 " Push 4 Cn Sc Hora Lagna 25 Pi 43' 59.98 " Reva 3 Pi Aq Ghati Lagna 29 Ar 11' 54.95 " Krit 1 Ar Sg Vighati Lagna 16 Li 31' 29.82 " Swat 3 Li Aq Varnada Lagna 22 Cn 14' 54.64 " Asre 2 Cn Cp Sree Lagna 26 Pi 20' 56.86 " Reva 3 Pi Aq Pranapada Lagna 17 Ge 13' 45.94 " Ardr 4 Ge Pi Indu Lagna 5 Ge 32' 57.86 " Mrig 4 Ge Sc Dhooma 17 Pi 27' 39.45 " Reva 1 Pi Sg Vyatipata 12 Ar 32' 20.55 " Aswi 4 Ar Cn Parivesha 12 Li 32' 20.55 " Swat 2 Li Cp Indra Chapa 17 Vi 27' 39.45 " Hast 3 Vi Ge Upaketu 4 Li 07' 39.45 " Chit 4 Li Sc Kaala 24 Cn 37' 00.87 " Asre 3 Cn Aq Mrityu 8 Vi 47' 45.44 " UPha 4 Vi Pi Artha Prahara 1 Li 03' 52.96 " Chit 3 Li Li Yama Ghantaka 22 Li 51' 56.34 " Visa 1 Li Ar Prana Sphuta 12 Cp 29' 24.80 " Srav 1 Cp Ar Deha Sphuta 14 Cn 18' 34.37 " Push 4 Cn Sc Mrityu Sphuta 3 Cp 31' 39.93 " USha 3 Cp Aq Trisphuta 0 Aq 19' 39.10 " Dhan 3 Aq Li V2 22 Vi 14' 54.64 " Hast 4 Vi Cn V3 22 Sc 14' 54.64 " Jye 2 Sc Cp V4 22 Cp 14' 54.64 " Srav 4 Cp Cn V5 22 Pi 14' 54.64 " Reva 2 Pi Cp V6 22 Ta 14' 54.64 " Rohi 4 Ta Cn V7 22 Cn 14' 54.64 " Asre 2 Cn Cp V8 22 Vi 14' 54.64 " Hast 4 Vi Cn V9 22 Sc 14' 54.64 " Jye 2 Sc Cp V10 22 Cp 14' 54.64 " Srav 4 Cp Cn V11 22 Pi 14' 54.64 " Reva 2 Pi Cp V12 22 Ta 14' 54.64 " Rohi 4 Ta Cn Kunda 17 Ge 43' 47.51 " Ardr 4 Ge Pi +--------------+ |HL |GL AL |JuR Gk |Ke Md | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |-----------+-----------------------+-----------| | | |As Sa | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |-----------| Rasi |-----------| |Mo | |Ma | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |-----------+-----------------------+-----------| |Ve Ra |Su Me | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | +--------------+ +--------------+ | | |JuR | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |-----------+-----------------------+-----------| |As Mo | |Ra | |HL | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |-----------| Navamsa |-----------| |Sa Ke | |Su Ma | |Md | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |-----------+-----------------------+-----------| |GL AL | |Me Ve |Gk | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | +--------------+ Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): Sun Sun 1913-11-20 Moon 1914-03-07 Mars 1914-09-09 Rah 1915-01-13 Jup 1915-12-09 Sat 1916-09-27 Merc 1917-09-09 Ket 1918-07-15 Ven 1918-11-21 Moon Moon 1919-11-21 Mars 1920-09-21 Rah 1921-04-18 Jup 1922-10-22 Sat 1924-02-18 Merc 1925-09-21 Ket 1927-02-17 Ven 1927-09-22 Sun 1929-05-19 Mars Mars 1929-11-21 Rah 1930-04-15 Jup 1931-05-04 Sat 1932-04-09 Merc 1933-05-19 Ket 1934-05-16 Ven 1934-10-16 Sun 1935-12-15 Moon 1936-04-18 Rah Rah 1936-11-20 Jup 1939-08-03 Sat 1941-12-26 Merc 1944-11-02 Ket 1947-05-20 Ven 1948-06-07 Sun 1951-06-08 Moon 1952-04-30 Mars 1953-11-03 Jup Jup 1954-11-21 Sat 1957-01-07 Merc 1959-07-22 Ket 1961-10-28 Ven 1962-10-04 Sun 1965-06-01 Moon 1966-03-19 Mars 1967-07-22 Rah 1968-06-26 Sat Sat 1970-11-21 Merc 1973-11-24 Ket 1976-08-03 Ven 1977-09-12 Sun 1980-11-12 Moon 1981-10-25 Mars 1983-05-23 Rah 1984-07-02 Jup 1987-05-08 Merc Merc 1989-11-21 Ket 1992-04-15 Ven 1993-04-13 Sun 1996-02-12 Moon 1996-12-20 Mars 1998-05-20 Rah 1999-05-17 Jup 2001-12-06 Sat 2004-03-10 Ket Ket 2006-11-21 Ven 2007-04-16 Sun 2008-06-17 Moon 2008-10-25 Mars 2009-05-23 Rah 2009-10-22 Jup 2010-11-09 Sat 2011-10-17 Merc 2012-11-24 Ven Ven 2013-11-21 Sun 2017-03-19 Moon 2018-03-20 Mars 2019-11-22 Rah 2021-01-19 Jup 2024-01-20 Sat 2026-09-22 Merc 2029-11-21 Ket 2032-09-22 Please Chant ---- HARE KRISHNA HARE KRISHNA KRISHNA KRISHNA HARE HARE HARE RAMA HARE RAMA RAMA RAMA HARE HARE and Be happy |Om Tat Sat| http://www.varahamihira Your use of is subject to the Terms of Service. 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Guest guest Posted November 9, 2003 Report Share Posted November 9, 2003 Dear Sudarshan, If I remember my astrology right, replacement takes place in 7 Chara Karaka scheme where Rahu replaces the place left vacant by two planets aquiring similar degrees and if this happens down the ladder, Sthira Karaka replaces the place left vacant. In case of 8 Chara Karakas, by extension of the same logic, Sthira karaka should fill in the place left vacant and the moving down the ladder appears to contradict this. May be, Sanjay will give his inputs on this. Regards, Chandrashekhar. Sudharsan Srinivasan [sudhar108]Sunday, November 09, 2003 5:22 AMvedic astrology ; varahamihira Subject: |Sri Varaha| Chara Karaka Replacement HARE RAMA KRISHNA Dear List and Jk, The chara Karaka replacement principle was discussed very recently in a workshop by Sanjay ji and yesterday Visti happened to clarify the same to me in detail.Since JK brought the question up in his recent email, Visti suggested that I explain the principle. Chara karakas get replaced when they fall in the same degree. The planet with the lower degree loses its chara karakatwa and moves up the ladder. As a result the planet with the higher degree drops off the chara karaka list.For example, if the Atmakaraka and Amatyakaraka share the same longitude but differ only by a few minutes, at some point, the Amtyakaraka ascends to act as the Atmakaraka and the planet that was acting as the Atmakaraka completely moves out of the picture. The empty slot of the Amatyakaraka is filled by the sthira Amatyakaraka. If the sthira karaka is weak, the relative of the native represented by the planet lose their longevity. For example if the slot of Darakaraka is filled by the Sthira Darakaraka Venus, and Venus is weak in the chart, the longevity of the Spouse(in the case of males) can be affected. After having ascertained grahas occupying the same degree, here are the steps: i) The Graha with a lower Chara Karakatwa is going to replace the higher. ii) As a result the lower Chara Karakatwa is going to disappear, in favor of a higher Karakatwa. iii) See the Sthira Karaka of the disappeared Chara Karakatwa and see its strength. A good example of Chara Karaka replacement is in the case of the late prime minister of India, Indira Gandhi. The details of Karakas are given below and we find that Saturn is the AK posited in lagna and Venus is the Amatyakaraka posited in the sixth house with Rahu. Both Saturn and Venus share the longitude, of 21 Degrees.At the natural age of Saturn, i.e 36,Saturn moved out of the picture and Venus took up the role of Atmakaraka(I am not certain about the timing as to whether it was the natural age of Venus or Saturn). It was observed that the native initially was never interested in politics and was very family and tradition bound. These are clear signs of the influence of Saturn as Atmakaraka. She was infact very attached and devoted to her husband. But once Venus took over as Atmakaraka,there was a 180 degree turn and she got into politics at the cost of her family.Venus is placed in the sixth with Rahu and she was a good administrator(Venus) but also had the influence of Rahu.There are other influences in the chart like that of the parivarthana between Jupiter and Venus that explain the role of the ninth lord(Father) who was the reason for her entry into politics.Now Venus is also in a 2/12 relationship with the Sun who is the chara darakaraka. Sanjay ji suggested that we could use Naisargika Dasa to time these changes incombination with the natural age of planets.However, we didnt get into details and this is a topic for further research and of course the mercy of Sanjay ji. I request Visti to add or correct the above if needed. Hare Krishna Sudharsan Indira Gandhi Natal Chart November 19, 1917Time: 11:07:00 pmTime Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT)Place: 81 E 52' 00", 25 N 28' 00" Edison, New Jersey, USAAltitude: 160.00 meters Lunar Yr-Mo: Pingala - KarthikaTithi: Sukla Shashthi (Ve) (88.15% left)Vedic Weekday: Monday (Mo)Nakshatra: Uttarashadha (Su) (33.38% left)Yoga: Ganda (Sa)Karana: Kaulava (Ma)Hora Lord: Jupiter (5 min sign: Le)Mahakala Hora: Mars (5 min sign: Ar)Kaala Lord: Saturn (Mahakala: Saturn) Sunrise: 6:22:23 amSunset: 5:12:22 pmJanma Ghatis: 41.8592 Ayanamsa: 22-42-54.40Sidereal Time: 2:57:10 Body Longitude Nakshatra Pada Rasi Navamsa Lagna 26 Cn 30' 54.66" Asre 3 Cn AqSun - DK 4 Sc 07' 39.45" Anu 1 Sc LeMoon - GK 5 Cp 32' 57.86" USha 3 Cp AqMars - MK 16 Le 22' 39.05" PPha 1 Le LeMercury - PK 13 Sc 14' 13.92" Anu 3 Sc LiJupiter ® - PiK 14 Ta 59' 54.96" Rohi 2 Ta TaVenus - AmK 21 Sg 00' 23.54" PSha 3 Sg LiSaturn - AK 21 Cn 47' 14.55" Asre 2 Cn CpRahu - BK 10 Sg 33' 54.70" Mool 4 Sg CnKetu 10 Ge 33' 54.70" Ardr 2 Ge CpMaandi 11 Ge 21' 52.00" Ardr 2 Ge CpGulika 29 Ta 54' 51.50" Mrig 2 Ta ViUranus 27 Cp 15' 15.47" Dhan 2 Cp ViNeptune ® 14 Cn 22' 00.67" Push 4 Cn ScPluto ® 12 Ge 27' 16.92" Ardr 2 Ge CpBhava Lagna 14 Cn 34' 41.66" Push 4 Cn ScHora Lagna 25 Pi 43' 59.98" Reva 3 Pi AqGhati Lagna 29 Ar 11' 54.95" Krit 1 Ar SgVighati Lagna 16 Li 31' 29.82" Swat 3 Li AqVarnada Lagna 22 Cn 14' 54.64" Asre 2 Cn CpSree Lagna 26 Pi 20' 56.86" Reva 3 Pi AqPranapada Lagna 17 Ge 13' 45.94" Ardr 4 Ge PiIndu Lagna 5 Ge 32' 57.86" Mrig 4 Ge ScDhooma 17 Pi 27' 39.45" Reva 1 Pi SgVyatipata 12 Ar 32' 20.55" Aswi 4 Ar CnParivesha 12 Li 32' 20.55" Swat 2 Li CpIndra Chapa 17 Vi 27' 39.45" Hast 3 Vi GeUpaketu 4 Li 07' 39.45" Chit 4 Li ScKaala 24 Cn 37' 00.87" Asre 3 Cn AqMrityu 8 Vi 47' 45.44" UPha 4 Vi PiArtha Prahara 1 Li 03' 52.96" Chit 3 Li LiYama Ghantaka 22 Li 51' 56.34" Visa 1 Li ArPrana Sphuta 12 Cp 29' 24.80" Srav 1 Cp ArDeha Sphuta 14 Cn 18' 34.37" Push 4 Cn ScMrityu Sphuta 3 Cp 31' 39.93" USha 3 Cp AqTrisphuta 0 Aq 19' 39.10" Dhan 3 Aq LiV2 22 Vi 14' 54.64" Hast 4 Vi CnV3 22 Sc 14' 54.64" Jye 2 Sc CpV4 22 Cp 14' 54.64" Srav 4 Cp CnV5 22 Pi 14' 54.64" Reva 2 Pi CpV6 22 Ta 14' 54.64" Rohi 4 Ta CnV7 22 Cn 14' 54.64" Asre 2 Cn CpV8 22 Vi 14' 54.64" Hast 4 Vi CnV9 22 Sc 14' 54.64" Jye 2 Sc CpV10 22 Cp 14' 54.64" Srav 4 Cp CnV11 22 Pi 14' 54.64" Reva 2 Pi CpV12 22 Ta 14' 54.64" Rohi 4 Ta CnKunda 17 Ge 43' 47.51" Ardr 4 Ge Pi +--------------+|HL |GL AL |JuR Gk |Ke Md || | | | || | | | || | | | || | | | ||-----------+-----------------------+-----------|| | |As Sa || | | || | | || | | || | | ||-----------| Rasi |-----------||Mo | |Ma || | | || | | || | | || | | ||-----------+-----------------------+-----------||Ve Ra |Su Me | | || | | | || | | | || | | | || | | | |+--------------+ +--------------+| | |JuR | || | | | || | | | || | | | || | | | ||-----------+-----------------------+-----------||As Mo | |Ra ||HL | | || | | || | | || | | ||-----------| Navamsa |-----------||Sa Ke | |Su Ma ||Md | | || | | || | | || | | ||-----------+-----------------------+-----------||GL AL | |Me Ve |Gk || | | | || | | | || | | | || | | | |+--------------+ Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): Sun Sun 1913-11-20 Moon 1914-03-07 Mars 1914-09-09 Rah 1915-01-13 Jup 1915-12-09 Sat 1916-09-27 Merc 1917-09-09 Ket 1918-07-15 Ven 1918-11-21 Moon Moon 1919-11-21 Mars 1920-09-21 Rah 1921-04-18 Jup 1922-10-22 Sat 1924-02-18 Merc 1925-09-21 Ket 1927-02-17 Ven 1927-09-22 Sun 1929-05-19 Mars Mars 1929-11-21 Rah 1930-04-15 Jup 1931-05-04 Sat 1932-04-09 Merc 1933-05-19 Ket 1934-05-16 Ven 1934-10-16 Sun 1935-12-15 Moon 1936-04-18 Rah Rah 1936-11-20 Jup 1939-08-03 Sat 1941-12-26 Merc 1944-11-02 Ket 1947-05-20 Ven 1948-06-07 Sun 1951-06-08 Moon 1952-04-30 Mars 1953-11-03 Jup Jup 1954-11-21 Sat 1957-01-07 Merc 1959-07-22 Ket 1961-10-28 Ven 1962-10-04 Sun 1965-06-01 Moon 1966-03-19 Mars 1967-07-22 Rah 1968-06-26 Sat Sat 1970-11-21 Merc 1973-11-24 Ket 1976-08-03 Ven 1977-09-12 Sun 1980-11-12 Moon 1981-10-25 Mars 1983-05-23 Rah 1984-07-02 Jup 1987-05-08 Merc Merc 1989-11-21 Ket 1992-04-15 Ven 1993-04-13 Sun 1996-02-12 Moon 1996-12-20 Mars 1998-05-20 Rah 1999-05-17 Jup 2001-12-06 Sat 2004-03-10 Ket Ket 2006-11-21 Ven 2007-04-16 Sun 2008-06-17 Moon 2008-10-25 Mars 2009-05-23 Rah 2009-10-22 Jup 2010-11-09 Sat 2011-10-17 Merc 2012-11-24 Ven Ven 2013-11-21 Sun 2017-03-19 Moon 2018-03-20 Mars 2019-11-22 Rah 2021-01-19 Jup 2024-01-20 Sat 2026-09-22 Merc 2029-11-21 Ket 2032-09-22 Please Chant ---- HARE KRISHNA HARE KRISHNA KRISHNA KRISHNA HARE HARE HARE RAMA HARE RAMA RAMA RAMA HARE HARE and Be happy|Om Tat Sat|http://www.varahamihira Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 10, 2003 Report Share Posted November 10, 2003 Thanks very much to Visti and Sudharsan best wishes jk - Sudharsan Srinivasan vedic astrology ; varahamihira Sunday, November 09, 2003 5:22 AM |Sri Varaha| Chara Karaka Replacement HARE RAMA KRISHNA Dear List and Jk, The chara Karaka replacement principle was discussed very recently in a workshop by Sanjay ji and yesterday Visti happened to clarify the same to me in detail.Since JK brought the question up in his recent email, Visti suggested that I explain the principle. Chara karakas get replaced when they fall in the same degree. The planet with the lower degree loses its chara karakatwa and moves up the ladder. As a result the planet with the higher degree drops off the chara karaka list.For example, if the Atmakaraka and Amatyakaraka share the same longitude but differ only by a few minutes, at some point, the Amtyakaraka ascends to act as the Atmakaraka and the planet that was acting as the Atmakaraka completely moves out of the picture. The empty slot of the Amatyakaraka is filled by the sthira Amatyakaraka. If the sthira karaka is weak, the relative of the native represented by the planet lose their longevity. For example if the slot of Darakaraka is filled by the Sthira Darakaraka Venus, and Venus is weak in the chart, the longevity of the Spouse(in the case of males) can be affected. After having ascertained grahas occupying the same degree, here are the steps: i) The Graha with a lower Chara Karakatwa is going to replace the higher. ii) As a result the lower Chara Karakatwa is going to disappear, in favor of a higher Karakatwa. iii) See the Sthira Karaka of the disappeared Chara Karakatwa and see its strength. A good example of Chara Karaka replacement is in the case of the late prime minister of India, Indira Gandhi. The details of Karakas are given below and we find that Saturn is the AK posited in lagna and Venus is the Amatyakaraka posited in the sixth house with Rahu. Both Saturn and Venus share the longitude, of 21 Degrees.At the natural age of Saturn, i.e 36,Saturn moved out of the picture and Venus took up the role of Atmakaraka(I am not certain about the timing as to whether it was the natural age of Venus or Saturn). It was observed that the native initially was never interested in politics and was very family and tradition bound. These are clear signs of the influence of Saturn as Atmakaraka. She was infact very attached and devoted to her husband. But once Venus took over as Atmakaraka,there was a 180 degree turn and she got into politics at the cost of her family.Venus is placed in the sixth with Rahu and she was a good administrator(Venus) but also had the influence of Rahu.There are other influences in the chart like that of the parivarthana between Jupiter and Venus that explain the role of the ninth lord(Father) who was the reason for her entry into politics.Now Venus is also in a 2/12 relationship with the Sun who is the chara darakaraka. Sanjay ji suggested that we could use Naisargika Dasa to time these changes incombination with the natural age of planets.However, we didnt get into details and this is a topic for further research and of course the mercy of Sanjay ji. I request Visti to add or correct the above if needed. Hare Krishna Sudharsan Indira Gandhi Natal Chart November 19, 1917 Time: 11:07:00 pm Time Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT) Place: 81 E 52' 00 " , 25 N 28' 00 " Edison, New Jersey, USA Altitude: 160.00 meters Lunar Yr-Mo: Pingala - Karthika Tithi: Sukla Shashthi (Ve) (88.15% left) Vedic Weekday: Monday (Mo) Nakshatra: Uttarashadha (Su) (33.38% left) Yoga: Ganda (Sa) Karana: Kaulava (Ma) Hora Lord: Jupiter (5 min sign: Le) Mahakala Hora: Mars (5 min sign: Ar) Kaala Lord: Saturn (Mahakala: Saturn) Sunrise: 6:22:23 am Sunset: 5:12:22 pm Janma Ghatis: 41.8592 Ayanamsa: 22-42-54.40 Sidereal Time: 2:57:10 Body Longitude Nakshatra Pada Rasi Navamsa Lagna 26 Cn 30' 54.66 " Asre 3 Cn Aq Sun - DK 4 Sc 07' 39.45 " Anu 1 Sc Le Moon - GK 5 Cp 32' 57.86 " USha 3 Cp Aq Mars - MK 16 Le 22' 39.05 " PPha 1 Le Le Mercury - PK 13 Sc 14' 13.92 " Anu 3 Sc Li Jupiter ® - PiK 14 Ta 59' 54.96 " Rohi 2 Ta Ta Venus - AmK 21 Sg 00' 23.54 " PSha 3 Sg Li Saturn - AK 21 Cn 47' 14.55 " Asre 2 Cn Cp Rahu - BK 10 Sg 33' 54.70 " Mool 4 Sg Cn Ketu 10 Ge 33' 54.70 " Ardr 2 Ge Cp Maandi 11 Ge 21' 52.00 " Ardr 2 Ge Cp Gulika 29 Ta 54' 51.50 " Mrig 2 Ta Vi Uranus 27 Cp 15' 15.47 " Dhan 2 Cp Vi Neptune ® 14 Cn 22' 00.67 " Push 4 Cn Sc Pluto ® 12 Ge 27' 16.92 " Ardr 2 Ge Cp Bhava Lagna 14 Cn 34' 41.66 " Push 4 Cn Sc Hora Lagna 25 Pi 43' 59.98 " Reva 3 Pi Aq Ghati Lagna 29 Ar 11' 54.95 " Krit 1 Ar Sg Vighati Lagna 16 Li 31' 29.82 " Swat 3 Li Aq Varnada Lagna 22 Cn 14' 54.64 " Asre 2 Cn Cp Sree Lagna 26 Pi 20' 56.86 " Reva 3 Pi Aq Pranapada Lagna 17 Ge 13' 45.94 " Ardr 4 Ge Pi Indu Lagna 5 Ge 32' 57.86 " Mrig 4 Ge Sc Dhooma 17 Pi 27' 39.45 " Reva 1 Pi Sg Vyatipata 12 Ar 32' 20.55 " Aswi 4 Ar Cn Parivesha 12 Li 32' 20.55 " Swat 2 Li Cp Indra Chapa 17 Vi 27' 39.45 " Hast 3 Vi Ge Upaketu 4 Li 07' 39.45 " Chit 4 Li Sc Kaala 24 Cn 37' 00.87 " Asre 3 Cn Aq Mrityu 8 Vi 47' 45.44 " UPha 4 Vi Pi Artha Prahara 1 Li 03' 52.96 " Chit 3 Li Li Yama Ghantaka 22 Li 51' 56.34 " Visa 1 Li Ar Prana Sphuta 12 Cp 29' 24.80 " Srav 1 Cp Ar Deha Sphuta 14 Cn 18' 34.37 " Push 4 Cn Sc Mrityu Sphuta 3 Cp 31' 39.93 " USha 3 Cp Aq Trisphuta 0 Aq 19' 39.10 " Dhan 3 Aq Li V2 22 Vi 14' 54.64 " Hast 4 Vi Cn V3 22 Sc 14' 54.64 " Jye 2 Sc Cp V4 22 Cp 14' 54.64 " Srav 4 Cp Cn V5 22 Pi 14' 54.64 " Reva 2 Pi Cp V6 22 Ta 14' 54.64 " Rohi 4 Ta Cn V7 22 Cn 14' 54.64 " Asre 2 Cn Cp V8 22 Vi 14' 54.64 " Hast 4 Vi Cn V9 22 Sc 14' 54.64 " Jye 2 Sc Cp V10 22 Cp 14' 54.64 " Srav 4 Cp Cn V11 22 Pi 14' 54.64 " Reva 2 Pi Cp V12 22 Ta 14' 54.64 " Rohi 4 Ta Cn Kunda 17 Ge 43' 47.51 " Ardr 4 Ge Pi +--------------+ |HL |GL AL |JuR Gk |Ke Md | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |-----------+-----------------------+-----------| | | |As Sa | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |-----------| Rasi |-----------| |Mo | |Ma | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |-----------+-----------------------+-----------| |Ve Ra |Su Me | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | +--------------+ +--------------+ | | |JuR | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |-----------+-----------------------+-----------| |As Mo | |Ra | |HL | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |-----------| Navamsa |-----------| |Sa Ke | |Su Ma | |Md | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |-----------+-----------------------+-----------| |GL AL | |Me Ve |Gk | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | +--------------+ Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): Sun Sun 1913-11-20 Moon 1914-03-07 Mars 1914-09-09 Rah 1915-01-13 Jup 1915-12-09 Sat 1916-09-27 Merc 1917-09-09 Ket 1918-07-15 Ven 1918-11-21 Moon Moon 1919-11-21 Mars 1920-09-21 Rah 1921-04-18 Jup 1922-10-22 Sat 1924-02-18 Merc 1925-09-21 Ket 1927-02-17 Ven 1927-09-22 Sun 1929-05-19 Mars Mars 1929-11-21 Rah 1930-04-15 Jup 1931-05-04 Sat 1932-04-09 Merc 1933-05-19 Ket 1934-05-16 Ven 1934-10-16 Sun 1935-12-15 Moon 1936-04-18 Rah Rah 1936-11-20 Jup 1939-08-03 Sat 1941-12-26 Merc 1944-11-02 Ket 1947-05-20 Ven 1948-06-07 Sun 1951-06-08 Moon 1952-04-30 Mars 1953-11-03 Jup Jup 1954-11-21 Sat 1957-01-07 Merc 1959-07-22 Ket 1961-10-28 Ven 1962-10-04 Sun 1965-06-01 Moon 1966-03-19 Mars 1967-07-22 Rah 1968-06-26 Sat Sat 1970-11-21 Merc 1973-11-24 Ket 1976-08-03 Ven 1977-09-12 Sun 1980-11-12 Moon 1981-10-25 Mars 1983-05-23 Rah 1984-07-02 Jup 1987-05-08 Merc Merc 1989-11-21 Ket 1992-04-15 Ven 1993-04-13 Sun 1996-02-12 Moon 1996-12-20 Mars 1998-05-20 Rah 1999-05-17 Jup 2001-12-06 Sat 2004-03-10 Ket Ket 2006-11-21 Ven 2007-04-16 Sun 2008-06-17 Moon 2008-10-25 Mars 2009-05-23 Rah 2009-10-22 Jup 2010-11-09 Sat 2011-10-17 Merc 2012-11-24 Ven Ven 2013-11-21 Sun 2017-03-19 Moon 2018-03-20 Mars 2019-11-22 Rah 2021-01-19 Jup 2024-01-20 Sat 2026-09-22 Merc 2029-11-21 Ket 2032-09-22 Please Chant ---- HARE KRISHNA HARE KRISHNA KRISHNA KRISHNA HARE HARE HARE RAMA HARE RAMA RAMA RAMA HARE HARE and Be happy |Om Tat Sat| http://www.varahamihira Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2003 Report Share Posted November 11, 2003 Dear Chandrashekharji, What you say is what Sanjayji taught in the west coast. Rahu replaces the vacancy, and at the second level, the sthira karaka steps in. Best regards, Sarbani Chandrashekhar Sharma [boxdel]Sunday, November 09, 2003 1:50 PMvarahamihira Subject: RE: |Sri Varaha| Chara Karaka Replacement Dear Sudarshan, If I remember my astrology right, replacement takes place in 7 Chara Karaka scheme where Rahu replaces the place left vacant by two planets aquiring similar degrees and if this happens down the ladder, Sthira Karaka replaces the place left vacant. In case of 8 Chara Karakas, by extension of the same logic, Sthira karaka should fill in the place left vacant and the moving down the ladder appears to contradict this. May be, Sanjay will give his inputs on this. Regards, Chandrashekhar. Sudharsan Srinivasan [sudhar108]Sunday, November 09, 2003 5:22 AMvedic astrology ; varahamihira Subject: |Sri Varaha| Chara Karaka Replacement HARE RAMA KRISHNA Dear List and Jk, The chara Karaka replacement principle was discussed very recently in a workshop by Sanjay ji and yesterday Visti happened to clarify the same to me in detail.Since JK brought the question up in his recent email, Visti suggested that I explain the principle. Chara karakas get replaced when they fall in the same degree. The planet with the lower degree loses its chara karakatwa and moves up the ladder. As a result the planet with the higher degree drops off the chara karaka list.For example, if the Atmakaraka and Amatyakaraka share the same longitude but differ only by a few minutes, at some point, the Amtyakaraka ascends to act as the Atmakaraka and the planet that was acting as the Atmakaraka completely moves out of the picture. The empty slot of the Amatyakaraka is filled by the sthira Amatyakaraka. If the sthira karaka is weak, the relative of the native represented by the planet lose their longevity. For example if the slot of Darakaraka is filled by the Sthira Darakaraka Venus, and Venus is weak in the chart, the longevity of the Spouse(in the case of males) can be affected. After having ascertained grahas occupying the same degree, here are the steps: i) The Graha with a lower Chara Karakatwa is going to replace the higher. ii) As a result the lower Chara Karakatwa is going to disappear, in favor of a higher Karakatwa. iii) See the Sthira Karaka of the disappeared Chara Karakatwa and see its strength. A good example of Chara Karaka replacement is in the case of the late prime minister of India, Indira Gandhi. The details of Karakas are given below and we find that Saturn is the AK posited in lagna and Venus is the Amatyakaraka posited in the sixth house with Rahu. Both Saturn and Venus share the longitude, of 21 Degrees.At the natural age of Saturn, i.e 36,Saturn moved out of the picture and Venus took up the role of Atmakaraka(I am not certain about the timing as to whether it was the natural age of Venus or Saturn). It was observed that the native initially was never interested in politics and was very family and tradition bound. These are clear signs of the influence of Saturn as Atmakaraka. She was infact very attached and devoted to her husband. But once Venus took over as Atmakaraka,there was a 180 degree turn and she got into politics at the cost of her family.Venus is placed in the sixth with Rahu and she was a good administrator(Venus) but also had the influence of Rahu.There are other influences in the chart like that of the parivarthana between Jupiter and Venus that explain the role of the ninth lord(Father) who was the reason for her entry into politics.Now Venus is also in a 2/12 relationship with the Sun who is the chara darakaraka. Sanjay ji suggested that we could use Naisargika Dasa to time these changes incombination with the natural age of planets.However, we didnt get into details and this is a topic for further research and of course the mercy of Sanjay ji. I request Visti to add or correct the above if needed. Hare Krishna Sudharsan Indira Gandhi Natal Chart November 19, 1917Time: 11:07:00 pmTime Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT)Place: 81 E 52' 00", 25 N 28' 00" Edison, New Jersey, USAAltitude: 160.00 meters Lunar Yr-Mo: Pingala - KarthikaTithi: Sukla Shashthi (Ve) (88.15% left)Vedic Weekday: Monday (Mo)Nakshatra: Uttarashadha (Su) (33.38% left)Yoga: Ganda (Sa)Karana: Kaulava (Ma)Hora Lord: Jupiter (5 min sign: Le)Mahakala Hora: Mars (5 min sign: Ar)Kaala Lord: Saturn (Mahakala: Saturn) Sunrise: 6:22:23 amSunset: 5:12:22 pmJanma Ghatis: 41.8592 Ayanamsa: 22-42-54.40Sidereal Time: 2:57:10 Body Longitude Nakshatra Pada Rasi Navamsa Lagna 26 Cn 30' 54.66" Asre 3 Cn AqSun - DK 4 Sc 07' 39.45" Anu 1 Sc LeMoon - GK 5 Cp 32' 57.86" USha 3 Cp AqMars - MK 16 Le 22' 39.05" PPha 1 Le LeMercury - PK 13 Sc 14' 13.92" Anu 3 Sc LiJupiter ® - PiK 14 Ta 59' 54.96" Rohi 2 Ta TaVenus - AmK 21 Sg 00' 23.54" PSha 3 Sg LiSaturn - AK 21 Cn 47' 14.55" Asre 2 Cn CpRahu - BK 10 Sg 33' 54.70" Mool 4 Sg CnKetu 10 Ge 33' 54.70" Ardr 2 Ge CpMaandi 11 Ge 21' 52.00" Ardr 2 Ge CpGulika 29 Ta 54' 51.50" Mrig 2 Ta ViUranus 27 Cp 15' 15.47" Dhan 2 Cp ViNeptune ® 14 Cn 22' 00.67" Push 4 Cn ScPluto ® 12 Ge 27' 16.92" Ardr 2 Ge CpBhava Lagna 14 Cn 34' 41.66" Push 4 Cn ScHora Lagna 25 Pi 43' 59.98" Reva 3 Pi AqGhati Lagna 29 Ar 11' 54.95" Krit 1 Ar SgVighati Lagna 16 Li 31' 29.82" Swat 3 Li AqVarnada Lagna 22 Cn 14' 54.64" Asre 2 Cn CpSree Lagna 26 Pi 20' 56.86" Reva 3 Pi AqPranapada Lagna 17 Ge 13' 45.94" Ardr 4 Ge PiIndu Lagna 5 Ge 32' 57.86" Mrig 4 Ge ScDhooma 17 Pi 27' 39.45" Reva 1 Pi SgVyatipata 12 Ar 32' 20.55" Aswi 4 Ar CnParivesha 12 Li 32' 20.55" Swat 2 Li CpIndra Chapa 17 Vi 27' 39.45" Hast 3 Vi GeUpaketu 4 Li 07' 39.45" Chit 4 Li ScKaala 24 Cn 37' 00.87" Asre 3 Cn AqMrityu 8 Vi 47' 45.44" UPha 4 Vi PiArtha Prahara 1 Li 03' 52.96" Chit 3 Li LiYama Ghantaka 22 Li 51' 56.34" Visa 1 Li ArPrana Sphuta 12 Cp 29' 24.80" Srav 1 Cp ArDeha Sphuta 14 Cn 18' 34.37" Push 4 Cn ScMrityu Sphuta 3 Cp 31' 39.93" USha 3 Cp AqTrisphuta 0 Aq 19' 39.10" Dhan 3 Aq LiV2 22 Vi 14' 54.64" Hast 4 Vi CnV3 22 Sc 14' 54.64" Jye 2 Sc CpV4 22 Cp 14' 54.64" Srav 4 Cp CnV5 22 Pi 14' 54.64" Reva 2 Pi CpV6 22 Ta 14' 54.64" Rohi 4 Ta CnV7 22 Cn 14' 54.64" Asre 2 Cn CpV8 22 Vi 14' 54.64" Hast 4 Vi CnV9 22 Sc 14' 54.64" Jye 2 Sc CpV10 22 Cp 14' 54.64" Srav 4 Cp CnV11 22 Pi 14' 54.64" Reva 2 Pi CpV12 22 Ta 14' 54.64" Rohi 4 Ta CnKunda 17 Ge 43' 47.51" Ardr 4 Ge Pi +--------------+|HL |GL AL |JuR Gk |Ke Md || | | | || | | | || | | | || | | | ||-----------+-----------------------+-----------|| | |As Sa || | | || | | || | | || | | ||-----------| Rasi |-----------||Mo | |Ma || | | || | | || | | || | | ||-----------+-----------------------+-----------||Ve Ra |Su Me | | || | | | || | | | || | | | || | | | |+--------------+ +--------------+| | |JuR | || | | | || | | | || | | | || | | | ||-----------+-----------------------+-----------||As Mo | |Ra ||HL | | || | | || | | || | | ||-----------| Navamsa |-----------||Sa Ke | |Su Ma ||Md | | || | | || | | || | | ||-----------+-----------------------+-----------||GL AL | |Me Ve |Gk || | | | || | | | || | | | || | | | |+--------------+ Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): Sun Sun 1913-11-20 Moon 1914-03-07 Mars 1914-09-09 Rah 1915-01-13 Jup 1915-12-09 Sat 1916-09-27 Merc 1917-09-09 Ket 1918-07-15 Ven 1918-11-21 Moon Moon 1919-11-21 Mars 1920-09-21 Rah 1921-04-18 Jup 1922-10-22 Sat 1924-02-18 Merc 1925-09-21 Ket 1927-02-17 Ven 1927-09-22 Sun 1929-05-19 Mars Mars 1929-11-21 Rah 1930-04-15 Jup 1931-05-04 Sat 1932-04-09 Merc 1933-05-19 Ket 1934-05-16 Ven 1934-10-16 Sun 1935-12-15 Moon 1936-04-18 Rah Rah 1936-11-20 Jup 1939-08-03 Sat 1941-12-26 Merc 1944-11-02 Ket 1947-05-20 Ven 1948-06-07 Sun 1951-06-08 Moon 1952-04-30 Mars 1953-11-03 Jup Jup 1954-11-21 Sat 1957-01-07 Merc 1959-07-22 Ket 1961-10-28 Ven 1962-10-04 Sun 1965-06-01 Moon 1966-03-19 Mars 1967-07-22 Rah 1968-06-26 Sat Sat 1970-11-21 Merc 1973-11-24 Ket 1976-08-03 Ven 1977-09-12 Sun 1980-11-12 Moon 1981-10-25 Mars 1983-05-23 Rah 1984-07-02 Jup 1987-05-08 Merc Merc 1989-11-21 Ket 1992-04-15 Ven 1993-04-13 Sun 1996-02-12 Moon 1996-12-20 Mars 1998-05-20 Rah 1999-05-17 Jup 2001-12-06 Sat 2004-03-10 Ket Ket 2006-11-21 Ven 2007-04-16 Sun 2008-06-17 Moon 2008-10-25 Mars 2009-05-23 Rah 2009-10-22 Jup 2010-11-09 Sat 2011-10-17 Merc 2012-11-24 Ven Ven 2013-11-21 Sun 2017-03-19 Moon 2018-03-20 Mars 2019-11-22 Rah 2021-01-19 Jup 2024-01-20 Sat 2026-09-22 Merc 2029-11-21 Ket 2032-09-22 Please Chant ---- HARE KRISHNA HARE KRISHNA KRISHNA KRISHNA HARE HARE HARE RAMA HARE RAMA RAMA RAMA HARE HARE and Be happy|Om Tat Sat|http://www.varahamihira Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2003 Report Share Posted November 11, 2003 Dear Sarbani, Thank you for confirming the veracity of my statement. I was certain that Sanjay could not teach as was being professed. Probably there was a mistake of perception by the students. By the way, I had sent you a mail about Puri Conference accommodation on Vyasa mail id. I have yet to hear from you. Should you have not received the mail, kindly let me know, so that I can send the same again. Also indicate on which of your mail IDs would you like to receive the same. Regards, Chandrashekhar. Sarbani Sarkar [sarbani]Tuesday, November 11, 2003 6:45 PMvarahamihira Subject: RE: |Sri Varaha| Chara Karaka Replacement Dear Chandrashekharji, What you say is what Sanjayji taught in the west coast. Rahu replaces the vacancy, and at the second level, the sthira karaka steps in. Best regards, Sarbani Chandrashekhar Sharma [boxdel]Sunday, November 09, 2003 1:50 PMvarahamihira Subject: RE: |Sri Varaha| Chara Karaka Replacement Dear Sudarshan, If I remember my astrology right, replacement takes place in 7 Chara Karaka scheme where Rahu replaces the place left vacant by two planets aquiring similar degrees and if this happens down the ladder, Sthira Karaka replaces the place left vacant. In case of 8 Chara Karakas, by extension of the same logic, Sthira karaka should fill in the place left vacant and the moving down the ladder appears to contradict this. May be, Sanjay will give his inputs on this. Regards, Chandrashekhar. Sudharsan Srinivasan [sudhar108]Sunday, November 09, 2003 5:22 AMvedic astrology ; varahamihira Subject: |Sri Varaha| Chara Karaka Replacement HARE RAMA KRISHNA Dear List and Jk, The chara Karaka replacement principle was discussed very recently in a workshop by Sanjay ji and yesterday Visti happened to clarify the same to me in detail.Since JK brought the question up in his recent email, Visti suggested that I explain the principle. Chara karakas get replaced when they fall in the same degree. The planet with the lower degree loses its chara karakatwa and moves up the ladder. As a result the planet with the higher degree drops off the chara karaka list.For example, if the Atmakaraka and Amatyakaraka share the same longitude but differ only by a few minutes, at some point, the Amtyakaraka ascends to act as the Atmakaraka and the planet that was acting as the Atmakaraka completely moves out of the picture. The empty slot of the Amatyakaraka is filled by the sthira Amatyakaraka. If the sthira karaka is weak, the relative of the native represented by the planet lose their longevity. For example if the slot of Darakaraka is filled by the Sthira Darakaraka Venus, and Venus is weak in the chart, the longevity of the Spouse(in the case of males) can be affected. After having ascertained grahas occupying the same degree, here are the steps: i) The Graha with a lower Chara Karakatwa is going to replace the higher. ii) As a result the lower Chara Karakatwa is going to disappear, in favor of a higher Karakatwa. iii) See the Sthira Karaka of the disappeared Chara Karakatwa and see its strength. A good example of Chara Karaka replacement is in the case of the late prime minister of India, Indira Gandhi. The details of Karakas are given below and we find that Saturn is the AK posited in lagna and Venus is the Amatyakaraka posited in the sixth house with Rahu. Both Saturn and Venus share the longitude, of 21 Degrees.At the natural age of Saturn, i.e 36,Saturn moved out of the picture and Venus took up the role of Atmakaraka(I am not certain about the timing as to whether it was the natural age of Venus or Saturn). It was observed that the native initially was never interested in politics and was very family and tradition bound. These are clear signs of the influence of Saturn as Atmakaraka. She was infact very attached and devoted to her husband. But once Venus took over as Atmakaraka,there was a 180 degree turn and she got into politics at the cost of her family.Venus is placed in the sixth with Rahu and she was a good administrator(Venus) but also had the influence of Rahu.There are other influences in the chart like that of the parivarthana between Jupiter and Venus that explain the role of the ninth lord(Father) who was the reason for her entry into politics.Now Venus is also in a 2/12 relationship with the Sun who is the chara darakaraka. Sanjay ji suggested that we could use Naisargika Dasa to time these changes incombination with the natural age of planets.However, we didnt get into details and this is a topic for further research and of course the mercy of Sanjay ji. I request Visti to add or correct the above if needed. Hare Krishna Sudharsan Indira Gandhi Natal Chart November 19, 1917Time: 11:07:00 pmTime Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT)Place: 81 E 52' 00", 25 N 28' 00" Edison, New Jersey, USAAltitude: 160.00 meters Lunar Yr-Mo: Pingala - KarthikaTithi: Sukla Shashthi (Ve) (88.15% left)Vedic Weekday: Monday (Mo)Nakshatra: Uttarashadha (Su) (33.38% left)Yoga: Ganda (Sa)Karana: Kaulava (Ma)Hora Lord: Jupiter (5 min sign: Le)Mahakala Hora: Mars (5 min sign: Ar)Kaala Lord: Saturn (Mahakala: Saturn) Sunrise: 6:22:23 amSunset: 5:12:22 pmJanma Ghatis: 41.8592 Ayanamsa: 22-42-54.40Sidereal Time: 2:57:10 Body Longitude Nakshatra Pada Rasi Navamsa Lagna 26 Cn 30' 54.66" Asre 3 Cn AqSun - DK 4 Sc 07' 39.45" Anu 1 Sc LeMoon - GK 5 Cp 32' 57.86" USha 3 Cp AqMars - MK 16 Le 22' 39.05" PPha 1 Le LeMercury - PK 13 Sc 14' 13.92" Anu 3 Sc LiJupiter ® - PiK 14 Ta 59' 54.96" Rohi 2 Ta TaVenus - AmK 21 Sg 00' 23.54" PSha 3 Sg LiSaturn - AK 21 Cn 47' 14.55" Asre 2 Cn CpRahu - BK 10 Sg 33' 54.70" Mool 4 Sg CnKetu 10 Ge 33' 54.70" Ardr 2 Ge CpMaandi 11 Ge 21' 52.00" Ardr 2 Ge CpGulika 29 Ta 54' 51.50" Mrig 2 Ta ViUranus 27 Cp 15' 15.47" Dhan 2 Cp ViNeptune ® 14 Cn 22' 00.67" Push 4 Cn ScPluto ® 12 Ge 27' 16.92" Ardr 2 Ge CpBhava Lagna 14 Cn 34' 41.66" Push 4 Cn ScHora Lagna 25 Pi 43' 59.98" Reva 3 Pi AqGhati Lagna 29 Ar 11' 54.95" Krit 1 Ar SgVighati Lagna 16 Li 31' 29.82" Swat 3 Li AqVarnada Lagna 22 Cn 14' 54.64" Asre 2 Cn CpSree Lagna 26 Pi 20' 56.86" Reva 3 Pi AqPranapada Lagna 17 Ge 13' 45.94" Ardr 4 Ge PiIndu Lagna 5 Ge 32' 57.86" Mrig 4 Ge ScDhooma 17 Pi 27' 39.45" Reva 1 Pi SgVyatipata 12 Ar 32' 20.55" Aswi 4 Ar CnParivesha 12 Li 32' 20.55" Swat 2 Li CpIndra Chapa 17 Vi 27' 39.45" Hast 3 Vi GeUpaketu 4 Li 07' 39.45" Chit 4 Li ScKaala 24 Cn 37' 00.87" Asre 3 Cn AqMrityu 8 Vi 47' 45.44" UPha 4 Vi PiArtha Prahara 1 Li 03' 52.96" Chit 3 Li LiYama Ghantaka 22 Li 51' 56.34" Visa 1 Li ArPrana Sphuta 12 Cp 29' 24.80" Srav 1 Cp ArDeha Sphuta 14 Cn 18' 34.37" Push 4 Cn ScMrityu Sphuta 3 Cp 31' 39.93" USha 3 Cp AqTrisphuta 0 Aq 19' 39.10" Dhan 3 Aq LiV2 22 Vi 14' 54.64" Hast 4 Vi CnV3 22 Sc 14' 54.64" Jye 2 Sc CpV4 22 Cp 14' 54.64" Srav 4 Cp CnV5 22 Pi 14' 54.64" Reva 2 Pi CpV6 22 Ta 14' 54.64" Rohi 4 Ta CnV7 22 Cn 14' 54.64" Asre 2 Cn CpV8 22 Vi 14' 54.64" Hast 4 Vi CnV9 22 Sc 14' 54.64" Jye 2 Sc CpV10 22 Cp 14' 54.64" Srav 4 Cp CnV11 22 Pi 14' 54.64" Reva 2 Pi CpV12 22 Ta 14' 54.64" Rohi 4 Ta CnKunda 17 Ge 43' 47.51" Ardr 4 Ge Pi +--------------+|HL |GL AL |JuR Gk |Ke Md || | | | || | | | || | | | || | | | ||-----------+-----------------------+-----------|| | |As Sa || | | || | | || | | || | | ||-----------| Rasi |-----------||Mo | |Ma || | | || | | || | | || | | ||-----------+-----------------------+-----------||Ve Ra |Su Me | | || | | | || | | | || | | | || | | | |+--------------+ +--------------+| | |JuR | || | | | || | | | || | | | || | | | ||-----------+-----------------------+-----------||As Mo | |Ra ||HL | | || | | || | | || | | ||-----------| Navamsa |-----------||Sa Ke | |Su Ma ||Md | | || | | || | | || | | ||-----------+-----------------------+-----------||GL AL | |Me Ve |Gk || | | | || | | | || | | | || | | | |+--------------+ Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): Sun Sun 1913-11-20 Moon 1914-03-07 Mars 1914-09-09 Rah 1915-01-13 Jup 1915-12-09 Sat 1916-09-27 Merc 1917-09-09 Ket 1918-07-15 Ven 1918-11-21 Moon Moon 1919-11-21 Mars 1920-09-21 Rah 1921-04-18 Jup 1922-10-22 Sat 1924-02-18 Merc 1925-09-21 Ket 1927-02-17 Ven 1927-09-22 Sun 1929-05-19 Mars Mars 1929-11-21 Rah 1930-04-15 Jup 1931-05-04 Sat 1932-04-09 Merc 1933-05-19 Ket 1934-05-16 Ven 1934-10-16 Sun 1935-12-15 Moon 1936-04-18 Rah Rah 1936-11-20 Jup 1939-08-03 Sat 1941-12-26 Merc 1944-11-02 Ket 1947-05-20 Ven 1948-06-07 Sun 1951-06-08 Moon 1952-04-30 Mars 1953-11-03 Jup Jup 1954-11-21 Sat 1957-01-07 Merc 1959-07-22 Ket 1961-10-28 Ven 1962-10-04 Sun 1965-06-01 Moon 1966-03-19 Mars 1967-07-22 Rah 1968-06-26 Sat Sat 1970-11-21 Merc 1973-11-24 Ket 1976-08-03 Ven 1977-09-12 Sun 1980-11-12 Moon 1981-10-25 Mars 1983-05-23 Rah 1984-07-02 Jup 1987-05-08 Merc Merc 1989-11-21 Ket 1992-04-15 Ven 1993-04-13 Sun 1996-02-12 Moon 1996-12-20 Mars 1998-05-20 Rah 1999-05-17 Jup 2001-12-06 Sat 2004-03-10 Ket Ket 2006-11-21 Ven 2007-04-16 Sun 2008-06-17 Moon 2008-10-25 Mars 2009-05-23 Rah 2009-10-22 Jup 2010-11-09 Sat 2011-10-17 Merc 2012-11-24 Ven Ven 2013-11-21 Sun 2017-03-19 Moon 2018-03-20 Mars 2019-11-22 Rah 2021-01-19 Jup 2024-01-20 Sat 2026-09-22 Merc 2029-11-21 Ket 2032-09-22 Please Chant ---- HARE KRISHNA HARE KRISHNA KRISHNA KRISHNA HARE HARE HARE RAMA HARE RAMA RAMA RAMA HARE HARE and Be happy|Om Tat Sat|http://www.varahamihira Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2003 Report Share Posted November 11, 2003 Hare Rama Krishna Dear Chandrashekhar, I fail to see the contradiction in the eight chara karaka scheme.Just to be sure we are on the same page, lets take Indira Gandhi's case.The atmakaraka and amatyakaraka are on the same degree.Saturn is the Atmakaraka and Venus is the Amatyakaraka.At the natural ages of the planets involved, the following takes place according to whatever I understood from Sanjay ji and Visti- a) Venus replaces Saturn as the Atmakaraka b) Saturn moves out of the picture c) the sthira Amatyakaraka replaces Venus Can you kindly expand on your comment using the above.Many thanks. Hare Krishna SudharsanChandrashekhar Sharma <boxdel wrote: Dear Sarbani, Thank you for confirming the veracity of my statement. I was certain that Sanjay could not teach as was being professed. Probably there was a mistake of perception by the students. By the way, I had sent you a mail about Puri Conference accommodation on Vyasa mail id. I have yet to hear from you. Should you have not received the mail, kindly let me know, so that I can send the same again. Also indicate on which of your mail IDs would you like to receive the same. Regards, Chandrashekhar. Sarbani Sarkar [sarbani]Tuesday, November 11, 2003 6:45 PMvarahamihira Subject: RE: |Sri Varaha| Chara Karaka Replacement Dear Chandrashekharji, What you say is what Sanjayji taught in the west coast. Rahu replaces the vacancy, and at the second level, the sthira karaka steps in. Best regards, Sarbani Chandrashekhar Sharma [boxdel]Sunday, November 09, 2003 1:50 PMvarahamihira Subject: RE: |Sri Varaha| Chara Karaka Replacement Dear Sudarshan, If I remember my astrology right, replacement takes place in 7 Chara Karaka scheme where Rahu replaces the place left vacant by two planets aquiring similar degrees and if this happens down the ladder, Sthira Karaka replaces the place left vacant. In case of 8 Chara Karakas, by extension of the same logic, Sthira karaka should fill in the place left vacant and the moving down the ladder appears to contradict this. May be, Sanjay will give his inputs on this. Regards, Chandrashekhar. Sudharsan Srinivasan [sudhar108]Sunday, November 09, 2003 5:22 AMvedic astrology ; varahamihira Subject: |Sri Varaha| Chara Karaka Replacement HARE RAMA KRISHNA Dear List and Jk, The chara Karaka replacement principle was discussed very recently in a workshop by Sanjay ji and yesterday Visti happened to clarify the same to me in detail.Since JK brought the question up in his recent email, Visti suggested that I explain the principle. Chara karakas get replaced when they fall in the same degree. The planet with the lower degree loses its chara karakatwa and moves up the ladder. As a result the planet with the higher degree drops off the chara karaka list.For example, if the Atmakaraka and Amatyakaraka share the same longitude but differ only by a few minutes, at some point, the Amtyakaraka ascends to act as the Atmakaraka and the planet that was acting as the Atmakaraka completely moves out of the picture. The empty slot of the Amatyakaraka is filled by the sthira Amatyakaraka. If the sthira karaka is weak, the relative of the native represented by the planet lose their longevity. For example if the slot of Darakaraka is filled by the Sthira Darakaraka Venus, and Venus is weak in the chart, the longevity of the Spouse(in the case of males) can be affected. After having ascertained grahas occupying the same degree, here are the steps: i) The Graha with a lower Chara Karakatwa is going to replace the higher. ii) As a result the lower Chara Karakatwa is going to disappear, in favor of a higher Karakatwa. iii) See the Sthira Karaka of the disappeared Chara Karakatwa and see its strength. A good example of Chara Karaka replacement is in the case of the late prime minister of India, Indira Gandhi. The details of Karakas are given below and we find that Saturn is the AK posited in lagna and Venus is the Amatyakaraka posited in the sixth house with Rahu. Both Saturn and Venus share the longitude, of 21 Degrees.At the natural age of Saturn, i.e 36,Saturn moved out of the picture and Venus took up the role of Atmakaraka(I am not certain about the timing as to whether it was the natural age of Venus or Saturn). It was observed that the native initially was never interested in politics and was very family and tradition bound. These are clear signs of the influence of Saturn as Atmakaraka. She was infact very attached and devoted to her husband. But once Venus took over as Atmakaraka,there was a 180 degree turn and she got into politics at the cost of her family.Venus is placed in the sixth with Rahu and she was a good administrator(Venus) but also had the influence of Rahu.There are other influences in the chart like that of the parivarthana between Jupiter and Venus that explain the role of the ninth lord(Father) who was the reason for her entry into politics.Now Venus is also in a 2/12 relationship with the Sun who is the chara darakaraka. Sanjay ji suggested that we could use Naisargika Dasa to time these changes incombination with the natural age of planets.However, we didnt get into details and this is a topic for further research and of course the mercy of Sanjay ji. I request Visti to add or correct the above if needed. Hare Krishna Sudharsan Indira Gandhi Natal Chart November 19, 1917Time: 11:07:00 pmTime Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT)Place: 81 E 52' 00", 25 N 28' 00" Edison, New Jersey, USAAltitude: 160.00 meters Lunar Yr-Mo: Pingala - KarthikaTithi: Sukla Shashthi (Ve) (88.15% left)Vedic Weekday: Monday (Mo)Nakshatra: Uttarashadha (Su) (33.38% left)Yoga: Ganda (Sa)Karana: Kaulava (Ma)Hora Lord: Jupiter (5 min sign: Le)Mahakala Hora: Mars (5 min sign: Ar)Kaala Lord: Saturn (Mahakala: Saturn) Sunrise: 6:22:23 amSunset: 5:12:22 pmJanma Ghatis: 41.8592 Ayanamsa: 22-42-54.40Sidereal Time: 2:57:10 Body Longitude Nakshatra Pada Rasi Navamsa Lagna 26 Cn 30' 54.66" Asre 3 Cn AqSun - DK 4 Sc 07' 39.45" Anu 1 Sc LeMoon - GK 5 Cp 32' 57.86" USha 3 Cp AqMars - MK 16 Le 22' 39.05" PPha 1 Le LeMercury - PK 13 Sc 14' 13.92" Anu 3 Sc LiJupiter ® - PiK 14 Ta 59' 54.96" Rohi 2 Ta TaVenus - AmK 21 Sg 00' 23.54" PSha 3 Sg LiSaturn - AK 21 Cn 47' 14.55" Asre 2 Cn CpRahu - BK 10 Sg 33' 54.70" Mool 4 Sg CnKetu 10 Ge 33' 54.70" Ardr 2 Ge CpMaandi 11 Ge 21' 52.00" Ardr 2 Ge CpGulika 29 Ta 54' 51.50" Mrig 2 Ta ViUranus 27 Cp 15' 15.47" Dhan 2 Cp ViNeptune ® 14 Cn 22' 00.67" Push 4 Cn ScPluto ® 12 Ge 27' 16.92" Ardr 2 Ge CpBhava Lagna 14 Cn 34' 41.66" Push 4 Cn ScHora Lagna 25 Pi 43' 59.98" Reva 3 Pi AqGhati Lagna 29 Ar 11' 54.95" Krit 1 Ar SgVighati Lagna 16 Li 31' 29.82" Swat 3 Li AqVarnada Lagna 22 Cn 14' 54.64" Asre 2 Cn CpSree Lagna 26 Pi 20' 56.86" Reva 3 Pi AqPranapada Lagna 17 Ge 13' 45.94" Ardr 4 Ge PiIndu Lagna 5 Ge 32' 57.86" Mrig 4 Ge ScDhooma 17 Pi 27' 39.45" Reva 1 Pi SgVyatipata 12 Ar 32' 20.55" Aswi 4 Ar CnParivesha 12 Li 32' 20.55" Swat 2 Li CpIndra Chapa 17 Vi 27' 39.45" Hast 3 Vi GeUpaketu 4 Li 07' 39.45" Chit 4 Li ScKaala 24 Cn 37' 00.87" Asre 3 Cn AqMrityu 8 Vi 47' 45.44" UPha 4 Vi PiArtha Prahara 1 Li 03' 52.96" Chit 3 Li LiYama Ghantaka 22 Li 51' 56.34" Visa 1 Li ArPrana Sphuta 12 Cp 29' 24.80" Srav 1 Cp ArDeha Sphuta 14 Cn 18' 34.37" Push 4 Cn ScMrityu Sphuta 3 Cp 31' 39.93" USha 3 Cp AqTrisphuta 0 Aq 19' 39.10" Dhan 3 Aq LiV2 22 Vi 14' 54.64" Hast 4 Vi CnV3 22 Sc 14' 54.64" Jye 2 Sc CpV4 22 Cp 14' 54.64" Srav 4 Cp CnV5 22 Pi 14' 54.64" Reva 2 Pi CpV6 22 Ta 14' 54.64" Rohi 4 Ta CnV7 22 Cn 14' 54.64" Asre 2 Cn CpV8 22 Vi 14' 54.64" Hast 4 Vi CnV9 22 Sc 14' 54.64" Jye 2 Sc CpV10 22 Cp 14' 54.64" Srav 4 Cp CnV11 22 Pi 14' 54.64" Reva 2 Pi CpV12 22 Ta 14' 54.64" Rohi 4 Ta CnKunda 17 Ge 43' 47.51" Ardr 4 Ge Pi +--------------+|HL |GL AL |JuR Gk |Ke Md || | | | || | | | || | | | || | | | ||-----------+-----------------------+-----------|| | |As Sa || | | || | | || | | || | | ||-----------| Rasi |-----------||Mo | |Ma || | | || | | || | | || | | ||-----------+-----------------------+-----------||Ve Ra |Su Me | | || | | | || | | | || | | | || | | | |+--------------+ +--------------+| | |JuR | || | | | || | | | || | | | || | | | ||-----------+-----------------------+-----------||As Mo | |Ra ||HL | | || | | || | | || | | ||-----------| Navamsa |-----------||Sa Ke | |Su Ma ||Md | | || | | || | | || | | ||-----------+-----------------------+-----------||GL AL | |Me Ve |Gk || | | | || | | | || | | | || | | | |+--------------+ Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): Sun Sun 1913-11-20 Moon 1914-03-07 Mars 1914-09-09 Rah 1915-01-13 Jup 1915-12-09 Sat 1916-09-27 Merc 1917-09-09 Ket 1918-07-15 Ven 1918-11-21 Moon Moon 1919-11-21 Mars 1920-09-21 Rah 1921-04-18 Jup 1922-10-22 Sat 1924-02-18 Merc 1925-09-21 Ket 1927-02-17 Ven 1927-09-22 Sun 1929-05-19 Mars Mars 1929-11-21 Rah 1930-04-15 Jup 1931-05-04 Sat 1932-04-09 Merc 1933-05-19 Ket 1934-05-16 Ven 1934-10-16 Sun 1935-12-15 Moon 1936-04-18 Rah Rah 1936-11-20 Jup 1939-08-03 Sat 1941-12-26 Merc 1944-11-02 Ket 1947-05-20 Ven 1948-06-07 Sun 1951-06-08 Moon 1952-04-30 Mars 1953-11-03 Jup Jup 1954-11-21 Sat 1957-01-07 Merc 1959-07-22 Ket 1961-10-28 Ven 1962-10-04 Sun 1965-06-01 Moon 1966-03-19 Mars 1967-07-22 Rah 1968-06-26 Sat Sat 1970-11-21 Merc 1973-11-24 Ket 1976-08-03 Ven 1977-09-12 Sun 1980-11-12 Moon 1981-10-25 Mars 1983-05-23 Rah 1984-07-02 Jup 1987-05-08 Merc Merc 1989-11-21 Ket 1992-04-15 Ven 1993-04-13 Sun 1996-02-12 Moon 1996-12-20 Mars 1998-05-20 Rah 1999-05-17 Jup 2001-12-06 Sat 2004-03-10 Ket Ket 2006-11-21 Ven 2007-04-16 Sun 2008-06-17 Moon 2008-10-25 Mars 2009-05-23 Rah 2009-10-22 Jup 2010-11-09 Sat 2011-10-17 Merc 2012-11-24 Ven Ven 2013-11-21 Sun 2017-03-19 Moon 2018-03-20 Mars 2019-11-22 Rah 2021-01-19 Jup 2024-01-20 Sat 2026-09-22 Merc 2029-11-21 Ket 2032-09-22 Please Chant ---- HARE KRISHNA HARE KRISHNA KRISHNA KRISHNA HARE HARE HARE RAMA HARE RAMA RAMA RAMA HARE HARE and Be happy|Om Tat Sat|http://www.varahamihira Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 13, 2003 Report Share Posted November 13, 2003 Dear Sudarshan, In the example given, if Saturn and Venus both have identical degrees, how can Saturn be called as Atmakaraka and Venus Amatyakaraka is something I do not understand. Parashara says that the Planet gaining highest degrees becomes the Atmakaraka. Therefore both would become Atmakaraka(By degrees degrees,minutes and seconds are implied). Now if we take your first premise of Sthira Karaka replacing Amatyakaraka position would be filled in by the Sthira karaka. No replacement of Saturn by Venus would be possible. Should one have higher minutes then it would be Madhya Karaka and should minutes too be identical one with higher seconds would be called Upakheta. Parashara says that some say that Rahu replaces the Karaka ( Blank created) and some say that irrespective of such a state Rahu has to be considered as one of the Karakas even if such state arises. He has not expressed what he considers to be correct. After this having been considered should similarity of Amsha, minutes,seconds arise then Sthira Karakas replace the blank space due to such identical amshas being obtained by the other Karakas(Chara). (Shloka1,2,3,4, to17 Chapter 32 BPHS) In light of this either Rahu could be the Atmakaraka or both Venus and Saturn will be Atmakaraka and Rahu will become Amatyakaraka, assuming the Degrees, minutes and second of Saturn and Venus are equal. Sarbaniji has also said that what I am saying is in line with what Sanjay taught. I hope this clarifies the matter. Regards, Chandrashekhar. Sudharsan Srinivasan wrote: Hare Rama Krishna Dear Chandrashekhar, I fail to see the contradiction in the eight chara karaka scheme.Just to be sure we are on the same page, lets take Indira Gandhi's case.The atmakaraka and amatyakaraka are on the same degree.Saturn is the Atmakaraka and Venus is the Amatyakaraka.At the natural ages of the planets involved, the following takes place according to whatever I understood from Sanjay ji and Visti- a) Venus replaces Saturn as the Atmakaraka b) Saturn moves out of the picture c) the sthira Amatyakaraka replaces Venus Can you kindly expand on your comment using the above.Many thanks. Hare Krishna Sudharsan Chandrashekhar Sharma <boxdel wrote: Dear Sarbani, Thank you for confirming the veracity of my statement. I was certain that Sanjay could not teach as was being professed. Probably there was a mistake of perception by the students. By the way, I had sent you a mail about Puri Conference accommodation on Vyasa mail id. I have yet to hear from you. Should you have not received the mail, kindly let me know, so that I can send the same again. Also indicate on which of your mail IDs would you like to receive the same. Regards, Chandrashekhar. Sarbani Sarkar [sarbani] Tuesday, November 11, 2003 6:45 PM varahamihira RE: |Sri Varaha| Chara Karaka Replacement Dear Chandrashekharji, What you say is what Sanjayji taught in the west coast. Rahu replaces the vacancy, and at the second level, the sthira karaka steps in. Best regards, Sarbani Chandrashekhar Sharma [boxdel] Sunday, November 09, 2003 1:50 PM varahamihira RE: |Sri Varaha| Chara Karaka Replacement Dear Sudarshan, If I remember my astrology right, replacement takes place in 7 Chara Karaka scheme where Rahu replaces the place left vacant by two planets aquiring similar degrees and if this happens down the ladder, Sthira Karaka replaces the place left vacant. In case of 8 Chara Karakas, by extension of the same logic, Sthira karaka should fill in the place left vacant and the moving down the ladder appears to contradict this. May be, Sanjay will give his inputs on this. Regards, Chandrashekhar. Sudharsan Srinivasan [sudhar108] Sunday, November 09, 2003 5:22 AM vedic astrology ; varahamihira |Sri Varaha| Chara Karaka Replacement HARE RAMA KRISHNA Dear List and Jk, The chara Karaka replacement principle was discussed very recently in a workshop by Sanjay ji and yesterday Visti happened to clarify the same to me in detail.Since JK brought the question up in his recent email, Visti suggested that I explain the principle. Chara karakas get replaced when they fall in the same degree. The planet with the lower degree loses its chara karakatwa and moves up the ladder. As a result the planet with the higher degree drops off the chara karaka list.For example, if the Atmakaraka and Amatyakaraka share the same longitude but differ only by a few minutes, at some point, the Amtyakaraka ascends to act as the Atmakaraka and the planet that was acting as the Atmakaraka completely moves out of the picture. The empty slot of the Amatyakaraka is filled by the sthira Amatyakaraka. If the sthira karaka is weak, the relative of the native represented by the planet lose their longevity. For example if the slot of Darakaraka is filled by the Sthira Darakaraka Venus, and Venus is weak in the chart, the longevity of the Spouse(in the case of males) can be affected. After having ascertained grahas occupying the same degree, here are the steps: i) The Graha with a lower Chara Karakatwa is going to replace the higher. ii) As a result the lower Chara Karakatwa is going to disappear, in favor of a higher Karakatwa. iii) See the Sthira Karaka of the disappeared Chara Karakatwa and see its strength. A good example of Chara Karaka replacement is in the case of the late prime minister of India, Indira Gandhi. The details of Karakas are given below and we find that Saturn is the AK posited in lagna and Venus is the Amatyakaraka posited in the sixth house with Rahu. Both Saturn and Venus share the longitude, of 21 Degrees.At the natural age of Saturn, i.e 36,Saturn moved out of the picture and Venus took up the role of Atmakaraka(I am not certain about the timing as to whether it was the natural age of Venus or Saturn). It was observed that the native initially was never interested in politics and was very family and tradition bound. These are clear signs of the influence of Saturn as Atmakaraka. She was infact very attached and devoted to her husband. But once Venus took over as Atmakaraka,there was a 180 degree turn and she got into politics at the cost of her family.Venus is placed in the sixth with Rahu and she was a good administrator(Venus) but also had the influence of Rahu.There are other influences in the chart like that of the parivarthana between Jupiter and Venus that explain the role of the ninth lord(Father) who was the reason for her entry into politics.Now Venus is also in a 2/12 relationship with the Sun who is the chara darakaraka. Sanjay ji suggested that we could use Naisargika Dasa to time these changes incombination with the natural age of planets.However, we didnt get into details and this is a topic for further research and of course the mercy of Sanjay ji. I request Visti to add or correct the above if needed. Hare Krishna Sudharsan Indira Gandhi Natal Chart November 19, 1917 Time: 11:07:00 pm Time Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT) Place: 81 E 52' 00", 25 N 28' 00" Edison, New Jersey, USA Altitude: 160.00 meters Lunar Yr-Mo: Pingala - Karthika Tithi: Sukla Shashthi (Ve) (88.15% left) Vedic Weekday: Monday (Mo) Nakshatra: Uttarashadha (Su) (33.38% left) Yoga: Ganda (Sa) Karana: Kaulava (Ma) Hora Lord: Jupiter (5 min sign: Le) Mahakala Hora: Mars (5 min sign: Ar) Kaala Lord: Saturn (Mahakala: Saturn) Sunrise: 6:22:23 am Sunset: 5:12:22 pm Janma Ghatis: 41.8592 Ayanamsa: 22-42-54.40 Sidereal Time: 2:57:10 Body Longitude Nakshatra Pada Rasi Navamsa Lagna 26 Cn 30' 54.66" Asre 3 Cn Aq Sun - DK 4 Sc 07' 39.45" Anu 1 Sc Le Moon - GK 5 Cp 32' 57.86" USha 3 Cp Aq Mars - MK 16 Le 22' 39.05" PPha 1 Le Le Mercury - PK 13 Sc 14' 13.92" Anu 3 Sc Li Jupiter ® - PiK 14 Ta 59' 54.96" Rohi 2 Ta Ta Venus - AmK 21 Sg 00' 23.54" PSha 3 Sg Li Saturn - AK 21 Cn 47' 14.55" Asre 2 Cn Cp Rahu - BK 10 Sg 33' 54.70" Mool 4 Sg Cn Ketu 10 Ge 33' 54.70" Ardr 2 Ge Cp Maandi 11 Ge 21' 52.00" Ardr 2 Ge Cp Gulika 29 Ta 54' 51.50" Mrig 2 Ta Vi Uranus 27 Cp 15' 15.47" Dhan 2 Cp Vi Neptune ® 14 Cn 22' 00.67" Push 4 Cn Sc Pluto ® 12 Ge 27' 16.92" Ardr 2 Ge Cp Bhava Lagna 14 Cn 34' 41.66" Push 4 Cn Sc Hora Lagna 25 Pi 43' 59.98" Reva 3 Pi Aq Ghati Lagna 29 Ar 11' 54.95" Krit 1 Ar Sg Vighati Lagna 16 Li 31' 29.82" Swat 3 Li Aq Varnada Lagna 22 Cn 14' 54.64" Asre 2 Cn Cp Sree Lagna 26 Pi 20' 56.86" Reva 3 Pi Aq Pranapada Lagna 17 Ge 13' 45.94" Ardr 4 Ge Pi Indu Lagna 5 Ge 32' 57.86" Mrig 4 Ge Sc Dhooma 17 Pi 27' 39.45" Reva 1 Pi Sg Vyatipata 12 Ar 32' 20.55" Aswi 4 Ar Cn Parivesha 12 Li 32' 20.55" Swat 2 Li Cp Indra Chapa 17 Vi 27' 39.45" Hast 3 Vi Ge Upaketu 4 Li 07' 39.45" Chit 4 Li Sc Kaala 24 Cn 37' 00.87" Asre 3 Cn Aq Mrityu 8 Vi 47' 45.44" UPha 4 Vi Pi Artha Prahara 1 Li 03' 52.96" Chit 3 Li Li Yama Ghantaka 22 Li 51' 56.34" Visa 1 Li Ar Prana Sphuta 12 Cp 29' 24.80" Srav 1 Cp Ar Deha Sphuta 14 Cn 18' 34.37" Push 4 Cn Sc Mrityu Sphuta 3 Cp 31' 39.93" USha 3 Cp Aq Trisphuta 0 Aq 19' 39.10" Dhan 3 Aq Li V2 22 Vi 14' 54.64" Hast 4 Vi Cn V3 22 Sc 14' 54.64" Jye 2 Sc Cp V4 22 Cp 14' 54.64" Srav 4 Cp Cn V5 22 Pi 14' 54.64" Reva 2 Pi Cp V6 22 Ta 14' 54.64" Rohi 4 Ta Cn V7 22 Cn 14' 54.64" Asre 2 Cn Cp V8 22 Vi 14' 54.64" Hast 4 Vi Cn V9 22 Sc 14' 54.64" Jye 2 Sc Cp V10 22 Cp 14' 54.64" Srav 4 Cp Cn V11 22 Pi 14' 54.64" Reva 2 Pi Cp V12 22 Ta 14' 54.64" Rohi 4 Ta Cn Kunda 17 Ge 43' 47.51" Ardr 4 Ge Pi +--------------+ |HL |GL AL |JuR Gk |Ke Md | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |-----------+-----------------------+-----------| | | |As Sa | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |-----------| Rasi |-----------| |Mo | |Ma | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |-----------+-----------------------+-----------| |Ve Ra |Su Me | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | +--------------+ +--------------+ | | |JuR | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |-----------+-----------------------+-----------| |As Mo | |Ra | |HL | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |-----------| Navamsa |-----------| |Sa Ke | |Su Ma | |Md | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |-----------+-----------------------+-----------| |GL AL | |Me Ve |Gk | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | +--------------+ Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): Sun Sun 1913-11-20 Moon 1914-03-07 Mars 1914-09-09 Rah 1915-01-13 Jup 1915-12-09 Sat 1916-09-27 Merc 1917-09-09 Ket 1918-07-15 Ven 1918-11-21 Moon Moon 1919-11-21 Mars 1920-09-21 Rah 1921-04-18 Jup 1922-10-22 Sat 1924-02-18 Merc 1925-09-21 Ket 1927-02-17 Ven 1927-09-22 Sun 1929-05-19 Mars Mars 1929-11-21 Rah 1930-04-15 Jup 1931-05-04 Sat 1932-04-09 Merc 1933-05-19 Ket 1934-05-16 Ven 1934-10-16 Sun 1935-12-15 Moon 1936-04-18 Rah Rah 1936-11-20 Jup 1939-08-03 Sat 1941-12-26 Merc 1944-11-02 Ket 1947-05-20 Ven 1948-06-07 Sun 1951-06-08 Moon 1952-04-30 Mars 1953-11-03 Jup Jup 1954-11-21 Sat 1957-01-07 Merc 1959-07-22 Ket 1961-10-28 Ven 1962-10-04 Sun 1965-06-01 Moon 1966-03-19 Mars 1967-07-22 Rah 1968-06-26 Sat Sat 1970-11-21 Merc 1973-11-24 Ket 1976-08-03 Ven 1977-09-12 Sun 1980-11-12 Moon 1981-10-25 Mars 1983-05-23 Rah 1984-07-02 Jup 1987-05-08 Merc Merc 1989-11-21 Ket 1992-04-15 Ven 1993-04-13 Sun 1996-02-12 Moon 1996-12-20 Mars 1998-05-20 Rah 1999-05-17 Jup 2001-12-06 Sat 2004-03-10 Ket Ket 2006-11-21 Ven 2007-04-16 Sun 2008-06-17 Moon 2008-10-25 Mars 2009-05-23 Rah 2009-10-22 Jup 2010-11-09 Sat 2011-10-17 Merc 2012-11-24 Ven Ven 2013-11-21 Sun 2017-03-19 Moon 2018-03-20 Mars 2019-11-22 Rah 2021-01-19 Jup 2024-01-20 Sat 2026-09-22 Merc 2029-11-21 Ket 2032-09-22 Please Chant ---- HARE KRISHNA HARE KRISHNA KRISHNA KRISHNA HARE HARE HARE RAMA HARE RAMA RAMA RAMA HARE HARE and Be happy |Om Tat Sat| http://www.varahamihira Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 13, 2003 Report Share Posted November 13, 2003 Hare Rama Krishna Dear Chandrashekhar, In my original post the data is given. Saturn is the AK as it has higher minutes( albeit on the same degree as Venus).If they are not identical on the degree the following extract from my original post will not apply- After having ascertained grahas occupying the same degree, here are the steps: i) The Graha with a lower Chara Karakatwa is going to replace the higher. ii) As a result the lower Chara Karakatwa is going to disappear, in favor of a higher Karakatwa. iii) See the Sthira Karaka of the disappeared Chara Karakatwa and see its strength. In fact the above is a copy paste from an email from Visti. Sarabani ji was also present with Visti ji and many others when Sanjay ji was teaching this concept on the East Coast. I went back last night and listened to the recording of the lecture and one of the cases that were analyzed was of Sarabani. Another example was of my own chart. Sanjay ji clearly talks of replacement of the higher chara karaka with that of the lower. And the lower chara karaka that moves up the ladder(I think heres where you differ) is replaced by the Sthira Karaka. Indira Gandhi's chart was similarly analyzed by Sanjay ji in a different class and the analysis that I presented was of course gathered from his lecture. So obviously, Sanjay ji is using two different approaches for the 7 and 8 chara karaka schemes. Sarabani's comments appear to agree to your explanation of the 7 chara karaka scheme which is fine for mundane charts-this was discussed on the west coast. I only repeated whatever my Gurus taught me but since you have raised a question about it, in my opinion its best to wait for Sanjay ji's comments. Hare Krishna Sudharsan Chandrashekhar <boxdel wrote: Dear Sudarshan,In the example given, if Saturn and Venus both have identical degrees, how can Saturn be called as Atmakaraka and Venus Amatyakaraka is something I do not understand. Parashara says that the Planet gaining highest degrees becomes the Atmakaraka. Therefore both would become Atmakaraka(By degrees degrees,minutes and seconds are implied). Now if we take your first premise of Sthira Karaka replacing Amatyakaraka position would be filled in by the Sthira karaka. No replacement of Saturn by Venus would be possible. Should one have higher minutes then it would be Madhya Karaka and should minutes too be identical one with higher seconds would be called Upakheta.Parashara says that some say that Rahu replaces the Karaka ( Blank created) and some say that irrespective of such a state Rahu has to be considered as one of the Karakas even if such state arises. He has not expressed what he considers to be correct. After this having been considered should similarity of Amsha, minutes,seconds arise then Sthira Karakas replace the blank space due to such identical amshas being obtained by the other Karakas(Chara). (Shloka1,2,3,4, to17 Chapter 32 BPHS)In light of this either Rahu could be the Atmakaraka or both Venus and Saturn will be Atmakaraka and Rahu will become Amatyakaraka, assuming the Degrees, minutes and second of Saturn and Venus are equal. Sarbaniji has also said that what I am saying is in line with what Sanjay taught.I hope this clarifies the matter.Regards,Chandrashekhar.Sudharsan Srinivasan wrote: Hare Rama Krishna Dear Chandrashekhar, I fail to see the contradiction in the eight chara karaka scheme.Just to be sure we are on the same page, lets take Indira Gandhi's case.The atmakaraka and amatyakaraka are on the same degree.Saturn is the Atmakaraka and Venus is the Amatyakaraka.At the natural ages of the planets involved, the following takes place according to whatever I understood from Sanjay ji and Visti- a) Venus replaces Saturn as the Atmakaraka b) Saturn moves out of the picture c) the sthira Amatyakaraka replaces Venus Can you kindly expand on your comment using the above.Many thanks. Hare Krishna SudharsanChandrashekhar Sharma <boxdel wrote: Dear Sarbani, Thank you for confirming the veracity of my statement. I was certain that Sanjay could not teach as was being professed. Probably there was a mistake of perception by the students. By the way, I had sent you a mail about Puri Conference accommodation on Vyasa mail id. I have yet to hear from you. Should you have not received the mail, kindly let me know, so that I can send the same again. Also indicate on which of your mail IDs would you like to receive the same. Regards, Chandrashekhar. Sarbani Sarkar [sarbani]Tuesday, November 11, 2003 6:45 PMvarahamihira Subject: RE: |Sri Varaha| Chara Karaka Replacement Dear Chandrashekharji, What you say is what Sanjayji taught in the west coast. Rahu replaces the vacancy, and at the second level, the sthira karaka steps in. Best regards, Sarbani Chandrashekhar Sharma [boxdel]Sunday, November 09, 2003 1:50 PMvarahamihira Subject: RE: |Sri Varaha| Chara Karaka Replacement Dear Sudarshan, If I remember my astrology right, replacement takes place in 7 Chara Karaka scheme where Rahu replaces the place left vacant by two planets aquiring similar degrees and if this happens down the ladder, Sthira Karaka replaces the place left vacant. In case of 8 Chara Karakas, by extension of the same logic, Sthira karaka should fill in the place left vacant and the moving down the ladder appears to contradict this. May be, Sanjay will give his inputs on this. Regards, Chandrashekhar. Sudharsan Srinivasan [sudhar108]Sunday, November 09, 2003 5:22 AMvedic astrology ; varahamihira Subject: |Sri Varaha| Chara Karaka Replacement HARE RAMA KRISHNA Dear List and Jk, The chara Karaka replacement principle was discussed very recently in a workshop by Sanjay ji and yesterday Visti happened to clarify the same to me in detail.Since JK brought the question up in his recent email, Visti suggested that I explain the principle. Chara karakas get replaced when they fall in the same degree. The planet with the lower degree loses its chara karakatwa and moves up the ladder. As a result the planet with the higher degree drops off the chara karaka list.For example, if the Atmakaraka and Amatyakaraka share the same longitude but differ only by a few minutes, at some point, the Amtyakaraka ascends to act as the Atmakaraka and the planet that was acting as the Atmakaraka completely moves out of the picture. The empty slot of the Amatyakaraka is filled by the sthira Amatyakaraka. If the sthira karaka is weak, the relative of the native represented by the planet lose their longevity. For example if the slot of Darakaraka is filled by the Sthira Darakaraka Venus, and Venus is weak in the chart, the longevity of the Spouse(in the case of males) can be affected. After having ascertained grahas occupying the same degree, here are the steps: i) The Graha with a lower Chara Karakatwa is going to replace the higher. ii) As a result the lower Chara Karakatwa is going to disappear, in favor of a higher Karakatwa. iii) See the Sthira Karaka of the disappeared Chara Karakatwa and see its strength. A good example of Chara Karaka replacement is in the case of the late prime minister of India, Indira Gandhi. The details of Karakas are given below and we find that Saturn is the AK posited in lagna and Venus is the Amatyakaraka posited in the sixth house with Rahu. Both Saturn and Venus share the longitude, of 21 Degrees.At the natural age of Saturn, i.e 36,Saturn moved out of the picture and Venus took up the role of Atmakaraka(I am not certain about the timing as to whether it was the natural age of Venus or Saturn). It was observed that the native initially was never interested in politics and was very family and tradition bound. These are clear signs of the influence of Saturn as Atmakaraka. She was infact very attached and devoted to her husband. But once Venus took over as Atmakaraka,there was a 180 degree turn and she got into politics at the cost of her family.Venus is placed in the sixth with Rahu and she was a good administrator(Venus) but also had the influence of Rahu.There are other influences in the chart like that of the parivarthana between Jupiter and Venus that explain the role of the ninth lord(Father) who was the reason for her entry into politics.Now Venus is also in a 2/12 relationship with the Sun who is the chara darakaraka. Sanjay ji suggested that we could use Naisargika Dasa to time these changes incombination with the natural age of planets.However, we didnt get into details and this is a topic for further research and of course the mercy of Sanjay ji. I request Visti to add or correct the above if needed. Hare Krishna Sudharsan Indira Gandhi Natal Chart November 19, 1917Time: 11:07:00 pmTime Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT)Place: 81 E 52' 00", 25 N 28' 00" Edison, New Jersey, USAAltitude: 160.00 meters Lunar Yr-Mo: Pingala - KarthikaTithi: Sukla Shashthi (Ve) (88.15% left)Vedic Weekday: Monday (Mo)Nakshatra: Uttarashadha (Su) (33.38% left)Yoga: Ganda (Sa)Karana: Kaulava (Ma)Hora Lord: Jupiter (5 min sign: Le)Mahakala Hora: Mars (5 min sign: Ar)Kaala Lord: Saturn (Mahakala: Saturn) Sunrise: 6:22:23 amSunset: 5:12:22 pmJanma Ghatis: 41.8592 Ayanamsa: 22-42-54.40Sidereal Time: 2:57:10 Body Longitude Nakshatra Pada Rasi Navamsa Lagna 26 Cn 30' 54.66" Asre 3 Cn AqSun - DK 4 Sc 07' 39.45" Anu 1 Sc LeMoon - GK 5 Cp 32' 57.86" USha 3 Cp AqMars - MK 16 Le 22' 39.05" PPha 1 Le LeMercury - PK 13 Sc 14' 13.92" Anu 3 Sc LiJupiter ® - PiK 14 Ta 59' 54.96" Rohi 2 Ta TaVenus - AmK 21 Sg 00' 23.54" PSha 3 Sg LiSaturn - AK 21 Cn 47' 14.55" Asre 2 Cn CpRahu - BK 10 Sg 33' 54.70" Mool 4 Sg CnKetu 10 Ge 33' 54.70" Ardr 2 Ge CpMaandi 11 Ge 21' 52.00" Ardr 2 Ge CpGulika 29 Ta 54' 51.50" Mrig 2 Ta ViUranus 27 Cp 15' 15.47" Dhan 2 Cp ViNeptune ® 14 Cn 22' 00.67" Push 4 Cn ScPluto ® 12 Ge 27' 16.92" Ardr 2 Ge CpBhava Lagna 14 Cn 34' 41.66" Push 4 Cn ScHora Lagna 25 Pi 43' 59.98" Reva 3 Pi AqGhati Lagna 29 Ar 11' 54.95" Krit 1 Ar SgVighati Lagna 16 Li 31' 29.82" Swat 3 Li AqVarnada Lagna 22 Cn 14' 54.64" Asre 2 Cn CpSree Lagna 26 Pi 20' 56.86" Reva 3 Pi AqPranapada Lagna 17 Ge 13' 45.94" Ardr 4 Ge PiIndu Lagna 5 Ge 32' 57.86" Mrig 4 Ge ScDhooma 17 Pi 27' 39.45" Reva 1 Pi SgVyatipata 12 Ar 32' 20.55" Aswi 4 Ar CnParivesha 12 Li 32' 20.55" Swat 2 Li CpIndra Chapa 17 Vi 27' 39.45" Hast 3 Vi GeUpaketu 4 Li 07' 39.45" Chit 4 Li ScKaala 24 Cn 37' 00.87" Asre 3 Cn AqMrityu 8 Vi 47' 45.44" UPha 4 Vi PiArtha Prahara 1 Li 03' 52.96" Chit 3 Li LiYama Ghantaka 22 Li 51' 56.34" Visa 1 Li ArPrana Sphuta 12 Cp 29' 24.80" Srav 1 Cp ArDeha Sphuta 14 Cn 18' 34.37" Push 4 Cn ScMrityu Sphuta 3 Cp 31' 39.93" USha 3 Cp AqTrisphuta 0 Aq 19' 39.10" Dhan 3 Aq LiV2 22 Vi 14' 54.64" Hast 4 Vi CnV3 22 Sc 14' 54.64" Jye 2 Sc CpV4 22 Cp 14' 54.64" Srav 4 Cp CnV5 22 Pi 14' 54.64" Reva 2 Pi CpV6 22 Ta 14' 54.64" Rohi 4 Ta CnV7 22 Cn 14' 54.64" Asre 2 Cn CpV8 22 Vi 14' 54.64" Hast 4 Vi CnV9 22 Sc 14' 54.64" Jye 2 Sc CpV10 22 Cp 14' 54.64" Srav 4 Cp CnV11 22 Pi 14' 54.64" Reva 2 Pi CpV12 22 Ta 14' 54.64" Rohi 4 Ta CnKunda 17 Ge 43' 47.51" Ardr 4 Ge Pi +--------------+|HL |GL AL |JuR Gk |Ke Md || | | | || | | | || | | | || | | | ||-----------+-----------------------+-----------|| | |As Sa || | | || | | || | | || | | ||-----------| Rasi |-----------||Mo | |Ma || | | || | | || | | || | | ||-----------+-----------------------+-----------||Ve Ra |Su Me | | || | | | || | | | || | | | || | | | |+--------------+ +--------------+| | |JuR | || | | | || | | | || | | | || | | | ||-----------+-----------------------+-----------||As Mo | |Ra ||HL | | || | | || | | || | | ||-----------| Navamsa |-----------||Sa Ke | |Su Ma ||Md | | || | | || | | || | | ||-----------+-----------------------+-----------||GL AL | |Me Ve |Gk || | | | || | | | || | | | || | | | |+--------------+ Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): Sun Sun 1913-11-20 Moon 1914-03-07 Mars 1914-09-09 Rah 1915-01-13 Jup 1915-12-09 Sat 1916-09-27 Merc 1917-09-09 Ket 1918-07-15 Ven 1918-11-21 Moon Moon 1919-11-21 Mars 1920-09-21 Rah 1921-04-18 Jup 1922-10-22 Sat 1924-02-18 Merc 1925-09-21 Ket 1927-02-17 Ven 1927-09-22 Sun 1929-05-19 Mars Mars 1929-11-21 Rah 1930-04-15 Jup 1931-05-04 Sat 1932-04-09 Merc 1933-05-19 Ket 1934-05-16 Ven 1934-10-16 Sun 1935-12-15 Moon 1936-04-18 Rah Rah 1936-11-20 Jup 1939-08-03 Sat 1941-12-26 Merc 1944-11-02 Ket 1947-05-20 Ven 1948-06-07 Sun 1951-06-08 Moon 1952-04-30 Mars 1953-11-03 Jup Jup 1954-11-21 Sat 1957-01-07 Merc 1959-07-22 Ket 1961-10-28 Ven 1962-10-04 Sun 1965-06-01 Moon 1966-03-19 Mars 1967-07-22 Rah 1968-06-26 Sat Sat 1970-11-21 Merc 1973-11-24 Ket 1976-08-03 Ven 1977-09-12 Sun 1980-11-12 Moon 1981-10-25 Mars 1983-05-23 Rah 1984-07-02 Jup 1987-05-08 Merc Merc 1989-11-21 Ket 1992-04-15 Ven 1993-04-13 Sun 1996-02-12 Moon 1996-12-20 Mars 1998-05-20 Rah 1999-05-17 Jup 2001-12-06 Sat 2004-03-10 Ket Ket 2006-11-21 Ven 2007-04-16 Sun 2008-06-17 Moon 2008-10-25 Mars 2009-05-23 Rah 2009-10-22 Jup 2010-11-09 Sat 2011-10-17 Merc 2012-11-24 Ven Ven 2013-11-21 Sun 2017-03-19 Moon 2018-03-20 Mars 2019-11-22 Rah 2021-01-19 Jup 2024-01-20 Sat 2026-09-22 Merc 2029-11-21 Ket 2032-09-22 Please Chant ---- HARE KRISHNA HARE KRISHNA KRISHNA KRISHNA HARE HARE HARE RAMA HARE RAMA RAMA RAMA HARE HARE and Be happy|Om Tat Sat|http://www.varahamihira Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 13, 2003 Report Share Posted November 13, 2003 Dear Sudarshan, Neither Parashara nor Jaimini indicate that Planet with lesser amshas (lower chara karakatwa means this) replaces the one with higher degrees anywhere, to the best of my knowledge. In fact not only does Parashara tells about Atmakaraka being the planet with highest degrees, he goes on to say that as a King is of prime importance so do the effects of other Karakas subject to those of Atmakaraka. Perhaps, we wait for Sanjay's comments. Chandrashekhar. Sudharsan Srinivasan wrote: Hare Rama Krishna Dear Chandrashekhar, In my original post the data is given. Saturn is the AK as it has higher minutes( albeit on the same degree as Venus).If they are not identical on the degree the following extract from my original post will not apply- After having ascertained grahas occupying the same degree, here are the steps: i) The Graha with a lower Chara Karakatwa is going to replace the higher. ii) As a result the lower Chara Karakatwa is going to disappear, in favor of a higher Karakatwa. iii) See the Sthira Karaka of the disappeared Chara Karakatwa and see its strength. In fact the above is a copy paste from an email from Visti. Sarabani ji was also present with Visti ji and many others when Sanjay ji was teaching this concept on the East Coast. I went back last night and listened to the recording of the lecture and one of the cases that were analyzed was of Sarabani. Another example was of my own chart. Sanjay ji clearly talks of replacement of the higher chara karaka with that of the lower. And the lower chara karaka that moves up the ladder(I think heres where you differ) is replaced by the Sthira Karaka. Indira Gandhi's chart was similarly analyzed by Sanjay ji in a different class and the analysis that I presented was of course gathered from his lecture. So obviously, Sanjay ji is using two different approaches for the 7 and 8 chara karaka schemes. Sarabani's comments appear to agree to your explanation of the 7 chara karaka scheme which is fine for mundane charts-this was discussed on the west coast. I only repeated whatever my Gurus taught me but since you have raised a question about it, in my opinion its best to wait for Sanjay ji's comments. Hare Krishna Sudharsan Chandrashekhar <boxdel wrote: Dear Sudarshan, In the example given, if Saturn and Venus both have identical degrees, how can Saturn be called as Atmakaraka and Venus Amatyakaraka is something I do not understand. Parashara says that the Planet gaining highest degrees becomes the Atmakaraka. Therefore both would become Atmakaraka(By degrees degrees,minutes and seconds are implied). Now if we take your first premise of Sthira Karaka replacing Amatyakaraka position would be filled in by the Sthira karaka. No replacement of Saturn by Venus would be possible. Should one have higher minutes then it would be Madhya Karaka and should minutes too be identical one with higher seconds would be called Upakheta. Parashara says that some say that Rahu replaces the Karaka ( Blank created) and some say that irrespective of such a state Rahu has to be considered as one of the Karakas even if such state arises. He has not expressed what he considers to be correct. After this having been considered should similarity of Amsha, minutes,seconds arise then Sthira Karakas replace the blank space due to such identical amshas being obtained by the other Karakas(Chara). (Shloka1,2,3,4, to17 Chapter 32 BPHS) In light of this either Rahu could be the Atmakaraka or both Venus and Saturn will be Atmakaraka and Rahu will become Amatyakaraka, assuming the Degrees, minutes and second of Saturn and Venus are equal. Sarbaniji has also said that what I am saying is in line with what Sanjay taught. I hope this clarifies the matter. Regards, Chandrashekhar. Sudharsan Srinivasan wrote: Hare Rama Krishna Dear Chandrashekhar, I fail to see the contradiction in the eight chara karaka scheme.Just to be sure we are on the same page, lets take Indira Gandhi's case.The atmakaraka and amatyakaraka are on the same degree.Saturn is the Atmakaraka and Venus is the Amatyakaraka.At the natural ages of the planets involved, the following takes place according to whatever I understood from Sanjay ji and Visti- a) Venus replaces Saturn as the Atmakaraka b) Saturn moves out of the picture c) the sthira Amatyakaraka replaces Venus Can you kindly expand on your comment using the above.Many thanks. Hare Krishna Sudharsan Chandrashekhar Sharma <boxdel wrote: Dear Sarbani, Thank you for confirming the veracity of my statement. I was certain that Sanjay could not teach as was being professed. Probably there was a mistake of perception by the students. By the way, I had sent you a mail about Puri Conference accommodation on Vyasa mail id. I have yet to hear from you. Should you have not received the mail, kindly let me know, so that I can send the same again. Also indicate on which of your mail IDs would you like to receive the same. Regards, Chandrashekhar. Sarbani Sarkar [sarbani] Tuesday, November 11, 2003 6:45 PM varahamihira RE: |Sri Varaha| Chara Karaka Replacement Dear Chandrashekharji, What you say is what Sanjayji taught in the west coast. Rahu replaces the vacancy, and at the second level, the sthira karaka steps in. Best regards, Sarbani Chandrashekhar Sharma [boxdel] Sunday, November 09, 2003 1:50 PM varahamihira RE: |Sri Varaha| Chara Karaka Replacement Dear Sudarshan, If I remember my astrology right, replacement takes place in 7 Chara Karaka scheme where Rahu replaces the place left vacant by two planets aquiring similar degrees and if this happens down the ladder, Sthira Karaka replaces the place left vacant. In case of 8 Chara Karakas, by extension of the same logic, Sthira karaka should fill in the place left vacant and the moving down the ladder appears to contradict this. May be, Sanjay will give his inputs on this. Regards, Chandrashekhar. Sudharsan Srinivasan [sudhar108] Sunday, November 09, 2003 5:22 AM vedic astrology ; varahamihira |Sri Varaha| Chara Karaka Replacement HARE RAMA KRISHNA Dear List and Jk, The chara Karaka replacement principle was discussed very recently in a workshop by Sanjay ji and yesterday Visti happened to clarify the same to me in detail.Since JK brought the question up in his recent email, Visti suggested that I explain the principle. Chara karakas get replaced when they fall in the same degree. The planet with the lower degree loses its chara karakatwa and moves up the ladder. As a result the planet with the higher degree drops off the chara karaka list.For example, if the Atmakaraka and Amatyakaraka share the same longitude but differ only by a few minutes, at some point, the Amtyakaraka ascends to act as the Atmakaraka and the planet that was acting as the Atmakaraka completely moves out of the picture. The empty slot of the Amatyakaraka is filled by the sthira Amatyakaraka. If the sthira karaka is weak, the relative of the native represented by the planet lose their longevity. For example if the slot of Darakaraka is filled by the Sthira Darakaraka Venus, and Venus is weak in the chart, the longevity of the Spouse(in the case of males) can be affected. After having ascertained grahas occupying the same degree, here are the steps: i) The Graha with a lower Chara Karakatwa is going to replace the higher. ii) As a result the lower Chara Karakatwa is going to disappear, in favor of a higher Karakatwa. iii) See the Sthira Karaka of the disappeared Chara Karakatwa and see its strength. A good example of Chara Karaka replacement is in the case of the late prime minister of India, Indira Gandhi. The details of Karakas are given below and we find that Saturn is the AK posited in lagna and Venus is the Amatyakaraka posited in the sixth house with Rahu. Both Saturn and Venus share the longitude, of 21 Degrees.At the natural age of Saturn, i.e 36,Saturn moved out of the picture and Venus took up the role of Atmakaraka(I am not certain about the timing as to whether it was the natural age of Venus or Saturn). It was observed that the native initially was never interested in politics and was very family and tradition bound. These are clear signs of the influence of Saturn as Atmakaraka. She was infact very attached and devoted to her husband. But once Venus took over as Atmakaraka,there was a 180 degree turn and she got into politics at the cost of her family.Venus is placed in the sixth with Rahu and she was a good administrator(Venus) but also had the influence of Rahu.There are other influences in the chart like that of the parivarthana between Jupiter and Venus that explain the role of the ninth lord(Father) who was the reason for her entry into politics.Now Venus is also in a 2/12 relationship with the Sun who is the chara darakaraka. Sanjay ji suggested that we could use Naisargika Dasa to time these changes incombination with the natural age of planets.However, we didnt get into details and this is a topic for further research and of course the mercy of Sanjay ji. I request Visti to add or correct the above if needed. Hare Krishna Sudharsan Indira Gandhi Natal Chart November 19, 1917 Time: 11:07:00 pm Time Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT) Place: 81 E 52' 00", 25 N 28' 00" Edison, New Jersey, USA Altitude: 160.00 meters Lunar Yr-Mo: Pingala - Karthika Tithi: Sukla Shashthi (Ve) (88.15% left) Vedic Weekday: Monday (Mo) Nakshatra: Uttarashadha (Su) (33.38% left) Yoga: Ganda (Sa) Karana: Kaulava (Ma) Hora Lord: Jupiter (5 min sign: Le) Mahakala Hora: Mars (5 min sign: Ar) Kaala Lord: Saturn (Mahakala: Saturn) Sunrise: 6:22:23 am Sunset: 5:12:22 pm Janma Ghatis: 41.8592 Ayanamsa: 22-42-54.40 Sidereal Time: 2:57:10 Body Longitude Nakshatra Pada Rasi Navamsa Lagna 26 Cn 30' 54.66" Asre 3 Cn Aq Sun - DK 4 Sc 07' 39.45" Anu 1 Sc Le Moon - GK 5 Cp 32' 57.86" USha 3 Cp Aq Mars - MK 16 Le 22' 39.05" PPha 1 Le Le Mercury - PK 13 Sc 14' 13.92" Anu 3 Sc Li Jupiter ® - PiK 14 Ta 59' 54.96" Rohi 2 Ta Ta Venus - AmK 21 Sg 00' 23.54" PSha 3 Sg Li Saturn - AK 21 Cn 47' 14.55" Asre 2 Cn Cp Rahu - BK 10 Sg 33' 54.70" Mool 4 Sg Cn Ketu 10 Ge 33' 54.70" Ardr 2 Ge Cp Maandi 11 Ge 21' 52.00" Ardr 2 Ge Cp Gulika 29 Ta 54' 51.50" Mrig 2 Ta Vi Uranus 27 Cp 15' 15.47" Dhan 2 Cp Vi Neptune ® 14 Cn 22' 00.67" Push 4 Cn Sc Pluto ® 12 Ge 27' 16.92" Ardr 2 Ge Cp Bhava Lagna 14 Cn 34' 41.66" Push 4 Cn Sc Hora Lagna 25 Pi 43' 59.98" Reva 3 Pi Aq Ghati Lagna 29 Ar 11' 54.95" Krit 1 Ar Sg Vighati Lagna 16 Li 31' 29.82" Swat 3 Li Aq Varnada Lagna 22 Cn 14' 54.64" Asre 2 Cn Cp Sree Lagna 26 Pi 20' 56.86" Reva 3 Pi Aq Pranapada Lagna 17 Ge 13' 45.94" Ardr 4 Ge Pi Indu Lagna 5 Ge 32' 57.86" Mrig 4 Ge Sc Dhooma 17 Pi 27' 39.45" Reva 1 Pi Sg Vyatipata 12 Ar 32' 20.55" Aswi 4 Ar Cn Parivesha 12 Li 32' 20.55" Swat 2 Li Cp Indra Chapa 17 Vi 27' 39.45" Hast 3 Vi Ge Upaketu 4 Li 07' 39.45" Chit 4 Li Sc Kaala 24 Cn 37' 00.87" Asre 3 Cn Aq Mrityu 8 Vi 47' 45.44" UPha 4 Vi Pi Artha Prahara 1 Li 03' 52.96" Chit 3 Li Li Yama Ghantaka 22 Li 51' 56.34" Visa 1 Li Ar Prana Sphuta 12 Cp 29' 24.80" Srav 1 Cp Ar Deha Sphuta 14 Cn 18' 34.37" Push 4 Cn Sc Mrityu Sphuta 3 Cp 31' 39.93" USha 3 Cp Aq Trisphuta 0 Aq 19' 39.10" Dhan 3 Aq Li V2 22 Vi 14' 54.64" Hast 4 Vi Cn V3 22 Sc 14' 54.64" Jye 2 Sc Cp V4 22 Cp 14' 54.64" Srav 4 Cp Cn V5 22 Pi 14' 54.64" Reva 2 Pi Cp V6 22 Ta 14' 54.64" Rohi 4 Ta Cn V7 22 Cn 14' 54.64" Asre 2 Cn Cp V8 22 Vi 14' 54.64" Hast 4 Vi Cn V9 22 Sc 14' 54.64" Jye 2 Sc Cp V10 22 Cp 14' 54.64" Srav 4 Cp Cn V11 22 Pi 14' 54.64" Reva 2 Pi Cp V12 22 Ta 14' 54.64" Rohi 4 Ta Cn Kunda 17 Ge 43' 47.51" Ardr 4 Ge Pi +--------------+ |HL |GL AL |JuR Gk |Ke Md | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |-----------+-----------------------+-----------| | | |As Sa | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |-----------| Rasi |-----------| |Mo | |Ma | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |-----------+-----------------------+-----------| |Ve Ra |Su Me | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | +--------------+ +--------------+ | | |JuR | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |-----------+-----------------------+-----------| |As Mo | |Ra | |HL | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |-----------| Navamsa |-----------| |Sa Ke | |Su Ma | |Md | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |-----------+-----------------------+-----------| |GL AL | |Me Ve |Gk | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | +--------------+ Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): Sun Sun 1913-11-20 Moon 1914-03-07 Mars 1914-09-09 Rah 1915-01-13 Jup 1915-12-09 Sat 1916-09-27 Merc 1917-09-09 Ket 1918-07-15 Ven 1918-11-21 Moon Moon 1919-11-21 Mars 1920-09-21 Rah 1921-04-18 Jup 1922-10-22 Sat 1924-02-18 Merc 1925-09-21 Ket 1927-02-17 Ven 1927-09-22 Sun 1929-05-19 Mars Mars 1929-11-21 Rah 1930-04-15 Jup 1931-05-04 Sat 1932-04-09 Merc 1933-05-19 Ket 1934-05-16 Ven 1934-10-16 Sun 1935-12-15 Moon 1936-04-18 Rah Rah 1936-11-20 Jup 1939-08-03 Sat 1941-12-26 Merc 1944-11-02 Ket 1947-05-20 Ven 1948-06-07 Sun 1951-06-08 Moon 1952-04-30 Mars 1953-11-03 Jup Jup 1954-11-21 Sat 1957-01-07 Merc 1959-07-22 Ket 1961-10-28 Ven 1962-10-04 Sun 1965-06-01 Moon 1966-03-19 Mars 1967-07-22 Rah 1968-06-26 Sat Sat 1970-11-21 Merc 1973-11-24 Ket 1976-08-03 Ven 1977-09-12 Sun 1980-11-12 Moon 1981-10-25 Mars 1983-05-23 Rah 1984-07-02 Jup 1987-05-08 Merc Merc 1989-11-21 Ket 1992-04-15 Ven 1993-04-13 Sun 1996-02-12 Moon 1996-12-20 Mars 1998-05-20 Rah 1999-05-17 Jup 2001-12-06 Sat 2004-03-10 Ket Ket 2006-11-21 Ven 2007-04-16 Sun 2008-06-17 Moon 2008-10-25 Mars 2009-05-23 Rah 2009-10-22 Jup 2010-11-09 Sat 2011-10-17 Merc 2012-11-24 Ven Ven 2013-11-21 Sun 2017-03-19 Moon 2018-03-20 Mars 2019-11-22 Rah 2021-01-19 Jup 2024-01-20 Sat 2026-09-22 Merc 2029-11-21 Ket 2032-09-22 Please Chant ---- HARE KRISHNA HARE KRISHNA KRISHNA KRISHNA HARE HARE HARE RAMA HARE RAMA RAMA RAMA HARE HARE and Be happy |Om Tat Sat| http://www.varahamihira Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2003 Report Share Posted November 14, 2003 || Om Gurave Namah || Dear Chandrashekar, If I may humbly suggest you. There are some lectures given by Pt. Sanjay Rath in 7 and 8 charakakarakas, chara kaarak replacement in west coast and in a east coast workshop in Navamsa conducted by Visit Larsen, Pt. Sanjay Rath has spoken about the Chara kaaraka replacements. I think ( I have not read & heard the lecture yet) he has qouted various texts indicating the chara karaka replacements when they are in the same degrees (basically same trimsamsa since 1 deg is one trimsamsa eg 0-1,1-2 etc degree boundaries). I think there is some confusion and what Sudarshan says is what even I understood and What Sarbani ji is saying is I suppose for the 7/8 chara kaaraka schemes. Warm Regards S. Prabhakaran varahamihira , Chandrashekhar <boxdel> wrote: > Dear Sudarshan, > Neither Parashara nor Jaimini indicate that Planet with lesser amshas > (lower chara karakatwa means this) replaces the one with higher degrees > anywhere, to the best of my knowledge. In fact not only does Parashara > tells about Atmakaraka being the planet with highest degrees, he goes on > to say that as a King is of prime importance so do the effects of other > Karakas subject to those of Atmakaraka. > Perhaps, we wait for Sanjay's comments. > Chandrashekhar. > > Sudharsan Srinivasan wrote: > > > Hare Rama Krishna > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar, > > > > In my original post the data is given. Saturn is the AK as it has > > higher minutes( albeit on the same degree as Venus).If they are not > > identical on the degree the following extract from my original post > > will not apply- > > > > After having ascertained grahas occupying the same degree, here are > > the steps: > > > > i) The Graha with a lower Chara Karakatwa is going > > to replace the higher. > > > > ii) As a result the lower Chara Karakatwa is going to > > disappear, in favor of a higher Karakatwa. > > > > iii) See the Sthira Karaka of the disappeared Chara > > Karakatwa and see its strength. > > > > > > > > > > In fact the above is a copy paste from an email from Visti. > > > > Sarabani ji was also present with Visti ji and many others when > > Sanjay ji was teaching this concept on the East Coast. I went back > > last night and listened to the recording of the lecture and one of the > > cases that were analyzed was of Sarabani. Another example was of my > > own chart. Sanjay ji clearly talks of replacement of the higher chara > > karaka with that of the lower. And the lower chara karaka that moves > > up the ladder(I think heres where you differ) is replaced by the > > Sthira Karaka. > > > > Indira Gandhi's chart was similarly analyzed by Sanjay ji in a > > different class and the analysis that I presented was of course > > gathered from his lecture. > > > > So obviously, Sanjay ji is using two different approaches for the 7 > > and 8 chara karaka schemes. Sarabani's comments appear to agree to > > your explanation of the 7 chara karaka scheme which is fine for > > mundane charts-this was discussed on the west coast. > > > > I only repeated whatever my Gurus taught me but since you have raised > > a question about it, in my opinion its best to wait for Sanjay ji's > > comments. > > > > Hare Krishna > > > > Sudharsan > > > > > > */Chandrashekhar <boxdel>/* wrote: > > > > Dear Sudarshan, > > In the example given, if Saturn and Venus both have identical > > degrees, how can Saturn be called as Atmakaraka and Venus > > Amatyakaraka is something I do not understand. Parashara says that > > the Planet gaining highest degrees becomes the Atmakaraka. > > Therefore both would become Atmakaraka(By degrees degrees,minutes > > and seconds are implied). Now if we take your first premise of > > Sthira Karaka replacing Amatyakaraka position would be filled in > > by the Sthira karaka. No replacement of Saturn by Venus would be > > possible. Should one have higher minutes then it would be Madhya > > Karaka and should minutes too be identical one with higher seconds > > would be called Upakheta. > > > > Parashara says that some say that Rahu replaces the Karaka ( Blank > > created) and some say that irrespective of such a state Rahu has > > to be considered as one of the Karakas even if such state arises. > > He has not expressed what he considers to be correct. After this > > having been considered should similarity of Amsha, minutes,seconds > > arise then Sthira Karakas replace the blank space due to such > > identical amshas being obtained by the other Karakas(Chara). > > (Shloka1,2,3,4, to17 Chapter 32 BPHS) > > > > In light of this either Rahu could be the Atmakaraka or both Venus > > and Saturn will be Atmakaraka and Rahu will become Amatyakaraka, > > assuming the Degrees, minutes and second of Saturn and Venus are > > equal. Sarbaniji has also said that what I am saying is in line > > with what Sanjay taught. > > I hope this clarifies the matter. > > Regards, > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > Sudharsan Srinivasan wrote: > > > >> Hare Rama Krishna > >> > >> Dear Chandrashekhar, > >> > >> I fail to see the contradiction in the eight chara karaka > >> scheme.Just to be sure we are on the same page, lets take Indira > >> Gandhi's case.The atmakaraka and amatyakaraka are on the same > >> degree.Saturn is the Atmakaraka and Venus is the Amatyakaraka.At > >> the natural ages of the planets involved, the following takes > >> place according to whatever *_I understood_* from Sanjay ji and > >> Visti- > >> > >> a) Venus replaces Saturn as the Atmakaraka > >> b) Saturn moves out of the picture > >> c) the sthira Amatyakaraka replaces Venus > >> > >> Can you kindly expand on your comment using the above.Many thanks. > >> > >> > >> Hare Krishna > >> > >> Sudharsan > >> > >> */Chandrashekhar Sharma <boxdel>/* wrote: > >> > >> Dear Sarbani, > >> Thank you for confirming the veracity of my statement. I was > >> certain that Sanjay could not teach as was being professed. > >> Probably there was a mistake of perception by the > >> students. By the way, I had sent you a mail about Puri > >> Conference accommodation on Vyasa mail id. I have yet to hear > >> from you. Should you have not received the mail, kindly let > >> me know, so that I can send the same again. Also indicate on > >> which of your mail IDs would you like to receive the same. > >> Regards, > >> Chandrashekhar. > >> > >> > >> ** Sarbani Sarkar [sarbani@s...] > >> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 11, 2003 6:45 PM > >> *To:* varahamihira > >> *Subject:* RE: |Sri Varaha| Chara Karaka Replacement > >> > >> Dear Chandrashekharji, > >> > >> What you say is what Sanjayji taught in the west coast. > >> Rahu replaces the vacancy, and at the second level, the > >> sthira karaka steps in. > >> > >> Best regards, > >> > >> Sarbani > >> > >> > >> ** Chandrashekhar Sharma [boxdel] > >> *Sent:* Sunday, November 09, 2003 1:50 PM > >> *To:* varahamihira > >> *Subject:* RE: |Sri Varaha| Chara Karaka Replacement > >> > >> Dear Sudarshan, > >> If I remember my astrology right, replacement takes place > >> in 7 Chara Karaka scheme where Rahu replaces the place > >> left vacant by two planets aquiring similar degrees and > >> if this happens down the ladder, Sthira Karaka replaces > >> the place left vacant. > >> In case of 8 Chara Karakas, by extension of the same > >> logic, Sthira karaka should fill in the place left vacant > >> and the moving down the ladder appears to contradict this. > >> May be, Sanjay will give his inputs on this. > >> Regards, > >> Chandrashekhar. > >> > >> > >> ** Sudharsan Srinivasan [sudhar108] > >> *Sent:* Sunday, November 09, 2003 5:22 AM > >> *To:* vedic astrology ; > >> varahamihira > >> *Subject:* |Sri Varaha| Chara Karaka Replacement > >> > >> HARE RAMA KRISHNA > >> > >> Dear List and Jk, > >> > >> The chara Karaka replacement principle was discussed > >> very recently in a workshop by Sanjay ji and > >> yesterday Visti happened to clarify the same to me in > >> detail.Since JK brought the question up in his recent > >> email, Visti suggested that I explain the principle. > >> > >> Chara karakas get replaced when they fall in the same > >> degree. The planet with the lower degree loses its > >> chara karakatwa and moves up the ladder. As a result > >> the planet with the higher degree drops off the chara > >> karaka list.For example, if the Atmakaraka and > >> Amatyakaraka share the same longitude but differ only > >> by a few minutes, at some point, the Amtyakaraka > >> ascends to act as the Atmakaraka and the planet that > >> was acting as the Atmakaraka completely moves out of > >> the picture. The empty slot of the Amatyakaraka is > >> filled by the sthira Amatyakaraka. If the sthira > >> karaka is weak, the relative of the native > >> represented by the planet lose their longevity. For > >> example if the slot of Darakaraka is filled by the > >> Sthira Darakaraka Venus, and Venus is weak in the > >> chart, the longevity of the Spouse(in the case of > >> males) can be affected. > >> > >> > >> After having ascertained grahas occupying the same > >> degree, here are the steps: > >> > >> i) The Graha with a lower Chara > >> Karakatwa is going to replace the higher. > >> > >> ii) As a result the lower Chara > >> Karakatwa is going to disappear, in favor of a higher > >> Karakatwa. > >> > >> iii) See the Sthira Karaka of the > >> disappeared Chara Karakatwa and see its strength. > >> > >> > >> A good example of Chara Karaka replacement is in the > >> case of the late prime minister of India, Indira > >> Gandhi. The details of Karakas are given below and we > >> find that Saturn is the AK posited in lagna and Venus > >> is the Amatyakaraka posited in the sixth house with > >> Rahu. Both Saturn and Venus share the longitude, of > >> 21 Degrees.At the natural age of Saturn, i.e > >> 36,Saturn moved out of the picture and Venus took up > >> the role of Atmakaraka(I am not certain about the > >> timing as to whether it was the natural age of Venus > >> or Saturn). It was observed that the native initially > >> was never interested in politics and was very family > >> and tradition bound. These are clear signs of the > >> influence of Saturn as Atmakaraka. She was infact > >> very attached and devoted to her husband. But once > >> Venus took over as Atmakaraka,there was a 180 degree > >> turn and she got into politics at the cost of her > >> family.Venus is placed in the sixth with Rahu and she > >> was a good administrator(Venus) but also had the > >> influence of Rahu.There are other influences in the > >> chart like that of the parivarthana between Jupiter > >> and Venus that explain the role of the ninth > >> lord(Father) who was the reason for her entry into > >> politics.Now Venus is also in a 2/12 relationship > >> with the Sun who is the chara darakaraka. > >> > >> > >> Sanjay ji suggested that we could use Naisargika Dasa > >> to time these changes incombination with the natural > >> age of planets.However, we didnt get into details > >> and this is a topic for further research and of > >> course the mercy of Sanjay ji. > >> > >> I request Visti to add or correct the above if needed. > >> > >> Hare Krishna > >> > >> Sudharsan > >> > >> > >> Indira Gandhi > >> Natal Chart > >> November 19, 1917 > >> Time: 11:07:00 pm > >> Time Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT) > >> Place: 81 E 52' 00 " , 25 N 28' 00 " > >> Edison, New Jersey, USA > >> Altitude: 160.00 meters > >> Lunar Yr-Mo: Pingala - Karthika > >> Tithi: Sukla Shashthi (Ve) (88.15% left) > >> Vedic Weekday: Monday (Mo) > >> Nakshatra: Uttarashadha (Su) (33.38% left) > >> Yoga: Ganda (Sa) > >> Karana: Kaulava (Ma) > >> Hora Lord: Jupiter (5 min sign: Le) > >> Mahakala Hora: Mars (5 min sign: Ar) > >> Kaala Lord: Saturn (Mahakala: Saturn) > >> Sunrise: 6:22:23 am > >> Sunset: 5:12:22 pm > >> Janma Ghatis: 41.8592 > >> Ayanamsa: 22-42-54.40 > >> Sidereal Time: 2:57:10 > >> Body Longitude Nakshatra Pada > >> Rasi Navamsa > >> Lagna 26 Cn 30' 54.66 " Asre 3 Cn Aq > >> Sun - DK 4 Sc 07' 39.45 " Anu 1 Sc Le > >> Moon - GK 5 Cp 32' 57.86 " USha 3 Cp Aq > >> Mars - MK 16 Le 22' 39.05 " PPha 1 Le Le > >> Mercury - PK 13 Sc 14' 13.92 " Anu 3 Sc Li > >> Jupiter ® - PiK 14 Ta 59' 54.96 " Rohi 2 Ta Ta > >> Venus - AmK 21 Sg 00' 23.54 " PSha 3 Sg Li > >> Saturn - AK 21 Cn 47' 14.55 " Asre 2 Cn Cp > >> Rahu - BK 10 Sg 33' 54.70 " Mool 4 Sg Cn > >> Ketu 10 Ge 33' 54.70 " Ardr 2 Ge Cp > >> Maandi 11 Ge 21' 52.00 " Ardr 2 Ge Cp > >> Gulika 29 Ta 54' 51.50 " Mrig 2 Ta Vi > >> Uranus 27 Cp 15' 15.47 " Dhan 2 Cp Vi > >> Neptune ® 14 Cn 22' 00.67 " Push 4 Cn Sc > >> Pluto ® 12 Ge 27' 16.92 " Ardr 2 Ge Cp > >> Bhava Lagna 14 Cn 34' 41.66 " Push 4 Cn Sc > >> Hora Lagna 25 Pi 43' 59.98 " Reva 3 Pi Aq > >> Ghati Lagna 29 Ar 11' 54.95 " Krit 1 Ar Sg > >> Vighati Lagna 16 Li 31' 29.82 " Swat 3 Li Aq > >> Varnada Lagna 22 Cn 14' 54.64 " Asre 2 Cn Cp > >> Sree Lagna 26 Pi 20' 56.86 " Reva 3 Pi Aq > >> Pranapada Lagna 17 Ge 13' 45.94 " Ardr 4 Ge Pi > >> Indu Lagna 5 Ge 32' 57.86 " Mrig 4 Ge Sc > >> Dhooma 17 Pi 27' 39.45 " Reva 1 Pi Sg > >> Vyatipata 12 Ar 32' 20.55 " Aswi 4 Ar Cn > >> Parivesha 12 Li 32' 20.55 " Swat 2 Li Cp > >> Indra Chapa 17 Vi 27' 39.45 " Hast 3 Vi Ge > >> Upaketu 4 Li 07' 39.45 " Chit 4 Li Sc > >> Kaala 24 Cn 37' 00.87 " Asre 3 Cn Aq > >> Mrityu 8 Vi 47' 45.44 " UPha 4 Vi Pi > >> Artha Prahara 1 Li 03' 52.96 " Chit 3 Li Li > >> Yama Ghantaka 22 Li 51' 56.34 " Visa 1 Li Ar > >> Prana Sphuta 12 Cp 29' 24.80 " Srav 1 Cp Ar > >> Deha Sphuta 14 Cn 18' 34.37 " Push 4 Cn Sc > >> Mrityu Sphuta 3 Cp 31' 39.93 " USha 3 Cp Aq > >> Trisphuta 0 Aq 19' 39.10 " Dhan 3 Aq Li > >> V2 22 Vi 14' 54.64 " Hast 4 Vi Cn > >> V3 22 Sc 14' 54.64 " Jye 2 Sc Cp > >> V4 22 Cp 14' 54.64 " Srav 4 Cp Cn > >> V5 22 Pi 14' 54.64 " Reva 2 Pi Cp > >> V6 22 Ta 14' 54.64 " Rohi 4 Ta Cn > >> V7 22 Cn 14' 54.64 " Asre 2 Cn Cp > >> V8 22 Vi 14' 54.64 " Hast 4 Vi Cn > >> V9 22 Sc 14' 54.64 " Jye 2 Sc Cp > >> V10 22 Cp 14' 54.64 " Srav 4 Cp Cn > >> V11 22 Pi 14' 54.64 " Reva 2 Pi Cp > >> V12 22 Ta 14' 54.64 " Rohi 4 Ta Cn > >> Kunda 17 Ge 43' 47.51 " Ardr 4 Ge Pi > >> +--------------+ > >> |HL |GL AL |JuR Gk |Ke Md | > >> | | | | | > >> | | | | | > >> | | | | | > >> | | | | | > >> |-----------+-----------------------+-----------| > >> | | |As Sa | > >> | | | | > >> | | | | > >> | | | | > >> | | | | > >> |-----------| Rasi |-----------| > >> |Mo | |Ma | > >> | | | | > >> | | | | > >> | | | | > >> | | | | > >> |-----------+-----------------------+-----------| > >> |Ve Ra |Su Me | | | > >> | | | | | > >> | | | | | > >> | | | | | > >> | | | | | > >> +--------------+ > >> > >> +--------------+ > >> | | |JuR | | > >> | | | | | > >> | | | | | > >> | | | | | > >> | | | | | > >> |-----------+-----------------------+-----------| > >> |As Mo | |Ra | > >> |HL | | | > >> | | | | > >> | | | | > >> | | | | > >> |-----------| Navamsa |-----------| > >> |Sa Ke | |Su Ma | > >> |Md | | | > >> | | | | > >> | | | | > >> | | | | > >> |-----------+-----------------------+-----------| > >> |GL AL | |Me Ve |Gk | > >> | | | | | > >> | | | | | > >> | | | | | > >> | | | | | > >> +--------------+ > >> > >> Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): > >> Sun Sun 1913-11-20 Moon 1914-03-07 Mars 1914- 09-09 > >> Rah 1915-01-13 Jup 1915-12-09 Sat 1916-09- 27 > >> Merc 1917-09-09 Ket 1918-07-15 Ven 1918- 11-21 > >> Moon Moon 1919-11-21 Mars 1920-09-21 Rah 1921- 04-18 > >> Jup 1922-10-22 Sat 1924-02-18 Merc 1925- 09-21 > >> Ket 1927-02-17 Ven 1927-09-22 Sun 1929- 05-19 > >> Mars Mars 1929-11-21 Rah 1930-04-15 Jup 1931- 05-04 > >> Sat 1932-04-09 Merc 1933-05-19 Ket 1934- 05-16 > >> Ven 1934-10-16 Sun 1935-12-15 Moon 1936- 04-18 > >> Rah Rah 1936-11-20 Jup 1939-08-03 Sat 1941-12- 26 > >> Merc 1944-11-02 Ket 1947-05-20 Ven 1948- 06-07 > >> Sun 1951-06-08 Moon 1952-04-30 Mars 1953- 11-03 > >> Jup Jup 1954-11-21 Sat 1957-01-07 Merc 1959- 07-22 > >> Ket 1961-10-28 Ven 1962-10-04 Sun 1965-06- 01 > >> Moon 1966-03-19 Mars 1967-07-22 Rah 1968- 06-26 > >> Sat Sat 1970-11-21 Merc 1973-11-24 Ket 1976- 08-03 > >> Ven 1977-09-12 Sun 1980-11-12 Moon 1981- 10-25 > >> Mars 1983-05-23 Rah 1984-07-02 Jup 1987- 05-08 > >> Merc Merc 1989-11-21 Ket 1992-04-15 Ven 1993- 04-13 > >> Sun 1996-02-12 Moon 1996-12-20 Mars 1998- 05-20 > >> Rah 1999-05-17 Jup 2001-12-06 Sat 2004- 03-10 > >> Ket Ket 2006-11-21 Ven 2007-04-16 Sun 2008-06- 17 > >> Moon 2008-10-25 Mars 2009-05-23 Rah 2009- 10-22 > >> Jup 2010-11-09 Sat 2011-10-17 Merc 2012- 11-24 > >> Ven Ven 2013-11-21 Sun 2017-03-19 Moon 2018- 03-20 > >> Mars 2019-11-22 Rah 2021-01-19 Jup 2024- 01-20 > >> Sat 2026-09-22 Merc 2029-11-21 Ket 2032- 09-22 > >> > >> > >> > >> Please Chant ---- > >> > >> HARE KRISHNA HARE KRISHNA > >> KRISHNA KRISHNA HARE HARE > >> HARE RAMA HARE RAMA > >> RAMA RAMA HARE HARE > >> > >> and Be happy > >> > >> > >> |Om Tat Sat| > >> http://www.varahamihira > >> > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2003 Report Share Posted November 15, 2003 Dear Sanjayprabhakaran, Perhaps I am not able to convey properly. However I must say that in COVA Sanjay has given Atmakaraka of Indira Gandhi as Saturn and not venus, who is said to have replaced Saturn per Sudarshan's mail. That apart, I think what Parashara says is pretty clear and there appears to be no reason for confusion. Perhaps Sanjay might like to clarify the confusion. Regards, Chandrashekhar. sanjayprabhakaran wrote: || Om Gurave Namah || Dear Chandrashekar, If I may humbly suggest you. There are some lectures given by Pt. Sanjay Rath in 7 and 8 charakakarakas, chara kaarak replacement in west coast and in a east coast workshop in Navamsa conducted by Visit Larsen, Pt. Sanjay Rath has spoken about the Chara kaaraka replacements. I think ( I have not read & heard the lecture yet) he has qouted various texts indicating the chara karaka replacements when they are in the same degrees (basically same trimsamsa since 1 deg is one trimsamsa eg 0-1,1-2 etc degree boundaries). I think there is some confusion and what Sudarshan says is what even I understood and What Sarbani ji is saying is I suppose for the 7/8 chara kaaraka schemes. Warm Regards S. Prabhakaran varahamihira , Chandrashekhar <boxdel> wrote: Dear Sudarshan, Neither Parashara nor Jaimini indicate that Planet with lesser amshas (lower chara karakatwa means this) replaces the one with higher degrees anywhere, to the best of my knowledge. In fact not only does Parashara tells about Atmakaraka being the planet with highest degrees, he goes on to say that as a King is of prime importance so do the effects of other Karakas subject to those of Atmakaraka. Perhaps, we wait for Sanjay's comments. Chandrashekhar. Sudharsan Srinivasan wrote: Hare Rama Krishna Dear Chandrashekhar, In my original post the data is given. Saturn is the AK as it has higher minutes( albeit on the same degree as Venus).If they are not identical on the degree the following extract from my original post will not apply- After having ascertained grahas occupying the same degree, here are the steps: i) The Graha with a lower Chara Karakatwa is going to replace the higher. ii) As a result the lower Chara Karakatwa is going to disappear, in favor of a higher Karakatwa. iii) See the Sthira Karaka of the disappeared Chara Karakatwa and see its strength. In fact the above is a copy paste from an email from Visti. Sarabani ji was also present with Visti ji and many others when Sanjay ji was teaching this concept on the East Coast. I went back last night and listened to the recording of the lecture and one of the cases that were analyzed was of Sarabani. Another example was of my own chart. Sanjay ji clearly talks of replacement of the higher chara karaka with that of the lower. And the lower chara karaka that moves up the ladder(I think heres where you differ) is replaced by the Sthira Karaka. Indira Gandhi's chart was similarly analyzed by Sanjay ji in a different class and the analysis that I presented was of course gathered from his lecture. So obviously, Sanjay ji is using two different approaches for the 7 and 8 chara karaka schemes. Sarabani's comments appear to agree to your explanation of the 7 chara karaka scheme which is fine for mundane charts-this was discussed on the west coast. I only repeated whatever my Gurus taught me but since you have raised a question about it, in my opinion its best to wait for Sanjay ji's comments. Hare Krishna Sudharsan */Chandrashekhar <boxdel>/* wrote: Dear Sudarshan, In the example given, if Saturn and Venus both have identical degrees, how can Saturn be called as Atmakaraka and Venus Amatyakaraka is something I do not understand. Parashara says that the Planet gaining highest degrees becomes the Atmakaraka. Therefore both would become Atmakaraka(By degrees degrees,minutes and seconds are implied). Now if we take your first premise of Sthira Karaka replacing Amatyakaraka position would be filled in by the Sthira karaka. No replacement of Saturn by Venus would be possible. Should one have higher minutes then it would be Madhya Karaka and should minutes too be identical one with higher seconds would be called Upakheta. Parashara says that some say that Rahu replaces the Karaka ( Blank created) and some say that irrespective of such a state Rahu has to be considered as one of the Karakas even if such state arises. He has not expressed what he considers to be correct. After this having been considered should similarity of Amsha, minutes,seconds arise then Sthira Karakas replace the blank space due to such identical amshas being obtained by the other Karakas(Chara). (Shloka1,2,3,4, to17 Chapter 32 BPHS) In light of this either Rahu could be the Atmakaraka or both Venus and Saturn will be Atmakaraka and Rahu will become Amatyakaraka, assuming the Degrees, minutes and second of Saturn and Venus are equal. Sarbaniji has also said that what I am saying is in line with what Sanjay taught. I hope this clarifies the matter. Regards, Chandrashekhar. Sudharsan Srinivasan wrote: Hare Rama Krishna Dear Chandrashekhar, I fail to see the contradiction in the eight chara karaka scheme.Just to be sure we are on the same page, lets take Indira Gandhi's case.The atmakaraka and amatyakaraka are on the same degree.Saturn is the Atmakaraka and Venus is the Amatyakaraka.At the natural ages of the planets involved, the following takes place according to whatever *_I understood_* from Sanjay ji and Visti- a) Venus replaces Saturn as the Atmakaraka b) Saturn moves out of the picture c) the sthira Amatyakaraka replaces Venus Can you kindly expand on your comment using the above.Many thanks. Hare Krishna Sudharsan */Chandrashekhar Sharma <boxdel>/* wrote: Dear Sarbani, Thank you for confirming the veracity of my statement. I was certain that Sanjay could not teach as was being professed. Probably there was a mistake of perception by the students. By the way, I had sent you a mail about Puri Conference accommodation on Vyasa mail id. I have yet to hear from you. Should you have not received the mail, kindly let me know, so that I can send the same again. Also indicate on which of your mail IDs would you like to receive the same. Regards, Chandrashekhar. ** Sarbani Sarkar [sarbani@s...] *Sent:* Tuesday, November 11, 2003 6:45 PM *To:* varahamihira *Subject:* RE: |Sri Varaha| Chara Karaka Replacement Dear Chandrashekharji, What you say is what Sanjayji taught in the west coast. Rahu replaces the vacancy, and at the second level, the sthira karaka steps in. Best regards, Sarbani ** Chandrashekhar Sharma [boxdel] *Sent:* Sunday, November 09, 2003 1:50 PM *To:* varahamihira *Subject:* RE: |Sri Varaha| Chara Karaka Replacement Dear Sudarshan, If I remember my astrology right, replacement takes place in 7 Chara Karaka scheme where Rahu replaces the place left vacant by two planets aquiring similar degrees and if this happens down the ladder, Sthira Karaka replaces the place left vacant. In case of 8 Chara Karakas, by extension of the same logic, Sthira karaka should fill in the place left vacant and the moving down the ladder appears to contradict this. May be, Sanjay will give his inputs on this. Regards, Chandrashekhar. ** Sudharsan Srinivasan [sudhar108] *Sent:* Sunday, November 09, 2003 5:22 AM *To:* vedic astrology ; varahamihira *Subject:* |Sri Varaha| Chara Karaka Replacement HARE RAMA KRISHNA Dear List and Jk, The chara Karaka replacement principle was discussed very recently in a workshop by Sanjay ji and yesterday Visti happened to clarify the same to me in detail.Since JK brought the question up in his recent email, Visti suggested that I explain the principle. Chara karakas get replaced when they fall in the same degree. The planet with the lower degree loses its chara karakatwa and moves up the ladder. As a result the planet with the higher degree drops off the chara karaka list.For example, if the Atmakaraka and Amatyakaraka share the same longitude but differ only by a few minutes, at some point, the Amtyakaraka ascends to act as the Atmakaraka and the planet that was acting as the Atmakaraka completely moves out of the picture. The empty slot of the Amatyakaraka is filled by the sthira Amatyakaraka. If the sthira karaka is weak, the relative of the native represented by the planet lose their longevity. For example if the slot of Darakaraka is filled by the Sthira Darakaraka Venus, and Venus is weak in the chart, the longevity of the Spouse(in the case of males) can be affected. After having ascertained grahas occupying the same degree, here are the steps: i) The Graha with a lower Chara Karakatwa is going to replace the higher. ii) As a result the lower Chara Karakatwa is going to disappear, in favor of a higher Karakatwa. iii) See the Sthira Karaka of the disappeared Chara Karakatwa and see its strength. A good example of Chara Karaka replacement is in the case of the late prime minister of India, Indira Gandhi. The details of Karakas are given below and we find that Saturn is the AK posited in lagna and Venus is the Amatyakaraka posited in the sixth house with Rahu. Both Saturn and Venus share the longitude, of 21 Degrees.At the natural age of Saturn, i.e 36,Saturn moved out of the picture and Venus took up the role of Atmakaraka(I am not certain about the timing as to whether it was the natural age of Venus or Saturn). It was observed that the native initially was never interested in politics and was very family and tradition bound. These are clear signs of the influence of Saturn as Atmakaraka. She was infact very attached and devoted to her husband. But once Venus took over as Atmakaraka,there was a 180 degree turn and she got into politics at the cost of her family.Venus is placed in the sixth with Rahu and she was a good administrator(Venus) but also had the influence of Rahu.There are other influences in the chart like that of the parivarthana between Jupiter and Venus that explain the role of the ninth lord(Father) who was the reason for her entry into politics.Now Venus is also in a 2/12 relationship with the Sun who is the chara darakaraka. Sanjay ji suggested that we could use Naisargika Dasa to time these changes incombination with the natural age of planets.However, we didnt get into details and this is a topic for further research and of course the mercy of Sanjay ji. I request Visti to add or correct the above if needed. Hare Krishna Sudharsan Indira Gandhi Natal Chart November 19, 1917 Time: 11:07:00 pm Time Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT) Place: 81 E 52' 00", 25 N 28' 00" Edison, New Jersey, USA Altitude: 160.00 meters Lunar Yr-Mo: Pingala - Karthika Tithi: Sukla Shashthi (Ve) (88.15% left) Vedic Weekday: Monday (Mo) Nakshatra: Uttarashadha (Su) (33.38% left) Yoga: Ganda (Sa) Karana: Kaulava (Ma) Hora Lord: Jupiter (5 min sign: Le) Mahakala Hora: Mars (5 min sign: Ar) Kaala Lord: Saturn (Mahakala: Saturn) Sunrise: 6:22:23 am Sunset: 5:12:22 pm Janma Ghatis: 41.8592 Ayanamsa: 22-42-54.40 Sidereal Time: 2:57:10 Body Longitude Nakshatra Pada Rasi Navamsa Lagna 26 Cn 30' 54.66" Asre 3 Cn Aq Sun - DK 4 Sc 07' 39.45" Anu 1 Sc Le Moon - GK 5 Cp 32' 57.86" USha 3 Cp Aq Mars - MK 16 Le 22' 39.05" PPha 1 Le Le Mercury - PK 13 Sc 14' 13.92" Anu 3 Sc Li Jupiter ® - PiK 14 Ta 59' 54.96" Rohi 2 Ta Ta Venus - AmK 21 Sg 00' 23.54" PSha 3 Sg Li Saturn - AK 21 Cn 47' 14.55" Asre 2 Cn Cp Rahu - BK 10 Sg 33' 54.70" Mool 4 Sg Cn Ketu 10 Ge 33' 54.70" Ardr 2 Ge Cp Maandi 11 Ge 21' 52.00" Ardr 2 Ge Cp Gulika 29 Ta 54' 51.50" Mrig 2 Ta Vi Uranus 27 Cp 15' 15.47" Dhan 2 Cp Vi Neptune ® 14 Cn 22' 00.67" Push 4 Cn Sc Pluto ® 12 Ge 27' 16.92" Ardr 2 Ge Cp Bhava Lagna 14 Cn 34' 41.66" Push 4 Cn Sc Hora Lagna 25 Pi 43' 59.98" Reva 3 Pi Aq Ghati Lagna 29 Ar 11' 54.95" Krit 1 Ar Sg Vighati Lagna 16 Li 31' 29.82" Swat 3 Li Aq Varnada Lagna 22 Cn 14' 54.64" Asre 2 Cn Cp Sree Lagna 26 Pi 20' 56.86" Reva 3 Pi Aq Pranapada Lagna 17 Ge 13' 45.94" Ardr 4 Ge Pi Indu Lagna 5 Ge 32' 57.86" Mrig 4 Ge Sc Dhooma 17 Pi 27' 39.45" Reva 1 Pi Sg Vyatipata 12 Ar 32' 20.55" Aswi 4 Ar Cn Parivesha 12 Li 32' 20.55" Swat 2 Li Cp Indra Chapa 17 Vi 27' 39.45" Hast 3 Vi Ge Upaketu 4 Li 07' 39.45" Chit 4 Li Sc Kaala 24 Cn 37' 00.87" Asre 3 Cn Aq Mrityu 8 Vi 47' 45.44" UPha 4 Vi Pi Artha Prahara 1 Li 03' 52.96" Chit 3 Li Li Yama Ghantaka 22 Li 51' 56.34" Visa 1 Li Ar Prana Sphuta 12 Cp 29' 24.80" Srav 1 Cp Ar Deha Sphuta 14 Cn 18' 34.37" Push 4 Cn Sc Mrityu Sphuta 3 Cp 31' 39.93" USha 3 Cp Aq Trisphuta 0 Aq 19' 39.10" Dhan 3 Aq Li V2 22 Vi 14' 54.64" Hast 4 Vi Cn V3 22 Sc 14' 54.64" Jye 2 Sc Cp V4 22 Cp 14' 54.64" Srav 4 Cp Cn V5 22 Pi 14' 54.64" Reva 2 Pi Cp V6 22 Ta 14' 54.64" Rohi 4 Ta Cn V7 22 Cn 14' 54.64" Asre 2 Cn Cp V8 22 Vi 14' 54.64" Hast 4 Vi Cn V9 22 Sc 14' 54.64" Jye 2 Sc Cp V10 22 Cp 14' 54.64" Srav 4 Cp Cn V11 22 Pi 14' 54.64" Reva 2 Pi Cp V12 22 Ta 14' 54.64" Rohi 4 Ta Cn Kunda 17 Ge 43' 47.51" Ardr 4 Ge Pi +--------------+ |HL |GL AL |JuR Gk |Ke Md | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |-----------+-----------------------+-----------| | | |As Sa | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |-----------| Rasi |-----------| |Mo | |Ma | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |-----------+-----------------------+-----------| |Ve Ra |Su Me | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | +--------------+ +--------------+ | | |JuR | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |-----------+-----------------------+-----------| |As Mo | |Ra | |HL | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |-----------| Navamsa |-----------| |Sa Ke | |Su Ma | |Md | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |-----------+-----------------------+-----------| |GL AL | |Me Ve |Gk | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | +--------------+ Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): Sun Sun 1913-11-20 Moon 1914-03-07 Mars 1914- 09-09 Rah 1915-01-13 Jup 1915-12-09 Sat 1916-09- 27 Merc 1917-09-09 Ket 1918-07-15 Ven 1918- 11-21 Moon Moon 1919-11-21 Mars 1920-09-21 Rah 1921- 04-18 Jup 1922-10-22 Sat 1924-02-18 Merc 1925- 09-21 Ket 1927-02-17 Ven 1927-09-22 Sun 1929- 05-19 Mars Mars 1929-11-21 Rah 1930-04-15 Jup 1931- 05-04 Sat 1932-04-09 Merc 1933-05-19 Ket 1934- 05-16 Ven 1934-10-16 Sun 1935-12-15 Moon 1936- 04-18 Rah Rah 1936-11-20 Jup 1939-08-03 Sat 1941-12- 26 Merc 1944-11-02 Ket 1947-05-20 Ven 1948- 06-07 Sun 1951-06-08 Moon 1952-04-30 Mars 1953- 11-03 Jup Jup 1954-11-21 Sat 1957-01-07 Merc 1959- 07-22 Ket 1961-10-28 Ven 1962-10-04 Sun 1965-06- 01 Moon 1966-03-19 Mars 1967-07-22 Rah 1968- 06-26 Sat Sat 1970-11-21 Merc 1973-11-24 Ket 1976- 08-03 Ven 1977-09-12 Sun 1980-11-12 Moon 1981- 10-25 Mars 1983-05-23 Rah 1984-07-02 Jup 1987- 05-08 Merc Merc 1989-11-21 Ket 1992-04-15 Ven 1993- 04-13 Sun 1996-02-12 Moon 1996-12-20 Mars 1998- 05-20 Rah 1999-05-17 Jup 2001-12-06 Sat 2004- 03-10 Ket Ket 2006-11-21 Ven 2007-04-16 Sun 2008-06- 17 Moon 2008-10-25 Mars 2009-05-23 Rah 2009- 10-22 Jup 2010-11-09 Sat 2011-10-17 Merc 2012- 11-24 Ven Ven 2013-11-21 Sun 2017-03-19 Moon 2018- 03-20 Mars 2019-11-22 Rah 2021-01-19 Jup 2024- 01-20 Sat 2026-09-22 Merc 2029-11-21 Ket 2032- 09-22 Please Chant ---- HARE KRISHNA HARE KRISHNA KRISHNA KRISHNA HARE HARE HARE RAMA HARE RAMA RAMA RAMA HARE HARE and Be happy |Om Tat Sat| http://www.varahamihira Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2003 Report Share Posted November 15, 2003 || Om Gurave Namah || Dear Chandrashekar, Saturn is Indira Gandhi's Birth atmakaaraka. That is not being disputed here. What is being discussed is the **replacement**. The principle which was taught by Guruji in west and east coast lectures is something like this. When two charakaaraka are in the same degree boundary, There is a fight between them to take the chara kaaraka role of the higher degree. After the natural age of the planet it can gain enough strength to replace it. In such a case the lower degreed charakaaraka is replaced by the sthira kaaraka of it. Examples discussed was one of Indira Gandhi and also Pt. Sanjay Rath himself has this chara Atma Kaaraka replacement from Saturn to Jupiter. In Guruji's chart the replacement could have occured at age 36 which is the natural age of Saturn at that time the role of atmakaarak as jupiter can be more pronounced. As I understand it The replacement is more external aspects of atmakaarak than the internal one. Guruji clearly said that 1) The Ishta devata does not change. 2) Yogas like Ak in 11th etc does not change (One cannot suddenly stop being a good jyotish after learning from young age). In case of Atmakaaraka being changed it just changes the whole life focus. Since the Atmakaaraka is the King in the chart. Like in the case of Gurudev Pt. Sanjay Rath. He quit the mundane government job jumped all in all into Jyotish education. This kind of change needed a strong change in Atma's direction or drive. In case of Ex PM Indira gandhi she changed from person who was very traditional lady to a very passionate lady rulling the country. You can test this principle in many charts not only at atmakaaraka level change even in other charakaaraka level. The details with references etc was given in lecture, You can learn from it. You just practice some after learning from the lecture you would understand it. If I am mistaken anywhere in understanding my teachings I request correction from Guruji. Warm Regards S. Prabhakaran Om Tat Sat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 16, 2003 Report Share Posted November 16, 2003 Dear Sanjay and Chandrashekar, Are you talking about degree boundaries (i.e. 0-1, 1-2 degrees etc.) or 1 degree intervals (like 1d30' - 2d30') for chara karaka replacements or both? In latter case, they will not be in same " trimsamsa " . Also, why should the chara AK become weaker after its natural age such that it can be replaced by chara AmK, which, infact, becomes stronger after its natural age (to be able to replace chara AK)? This would mean either a degradation of atma shakti of the person or strengthing of amatya shakti (i.e. shakti of AmK) or both!! Since there is a chara AK before and after the chara karaka replacement of AK with AmK => atma shakti is a " different principle " from the planet (acting in role of AK) and is transferrable to another planet and thus any other person as well. This means that chara AK is just the carrier of atma shakti of a person rather than a permanent/absolute representation of the same, which contradicts the basic assumption used throughout i.e. chara AK is God in horoscope (God doesn't change, mortals do). OfCourse, while this apparent contradiction can be resolved in a bigger framework of universal existence, it becomes important to see the consequences of such a replacement. Chara AK shows the level of existence which gives you the false identity (as a Jeevatma) different from the bigger non-identified universal existence (as paramatma) and therefore shows the force which has a constant fight with the higher powers. This identity creates a dualistic world which is ruled by shakti of AmK. It becomes apparent that those people undergoing chara AK replacements in their life have such kind of karmic associations with the dualistic world that even after giving away their original identity (i.e. by working selflessly), they have another identity to give away to be able to attain an understanding/acceptance of higher existence as superior to and inclusive of the dualistic world. This is ofcourse rare!!! regards, nitish --- sanjayprabhakaran <sanjayp wrote: > || Om Gurave Namah || > Dear Chandrashekar, > If I may humbly suggest you. There are some > lectures given by Pt. > Sanjay Rath in 7 and 8 charakakarakas, chara kaarak > replacement in > west coast and in a east coast workshop in Navamsa > conducted by Visit > Larsen, Pt. Sanjay Rath has spoken about the Chara > kaaraka > replacements. I think ( I have not read & heard the > lecture yet) he > has qouted various texts indicating the chara karaka > replacements > when they are in the same degrees (basically same > trimsamsa since 1 > deg is one trimsamsa eg 0-1,1-2 etc degree > boundaries). > I think there is some confusion and what Sudarshan > says is what even > I understood and What Sarbani ji is saying is I > suppose for the 7/8 > chara kaaraka schemes. > > Warm Regards > S. Prabhakaran > > > varahamihira , Chandrashekhar > <boxdel> > wrote: > > Dear Sudarshan, > > Neither Parashara nor Jaimini indicate that > Planet with lesser > amshas > > (lower chara karakatwa means this) replaces the > one with higher > degrees > > anywhere, to the best of my knowledge. In fact not > only does > Parashara > > tells about Atmakaraka being the planet with > highest degrees, he > goes on > > to say that as a King is of prime importance so do > the effects of > other > > Karakas subject to those of Atmakaraka. > > Perhaps, we wait for Sanjay's comments. > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > Sudharsan Srinivasan wrote: > > > > > Hare Rama Krishna > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar, > > > > > > In my original post the data is given. Saturn is > the AK as it has > > > higher minutes( albeit on the same degree as > Venus).If they are > not > > > identical on the degree the following extract > from my original > post > > > will not apply- > > > > > > After having ascertained grahas occupying the > same degree, here > are > > > the steps: > > > > > > i) The Graha with a lower > Chara Karakatwa is > going > > > to replace the higher. > > > > > > ii) As a result the lower Chara > Karakatwa is > going to > > > disappear, in favor of a higher Karakatwa. > > > > > > iii) See the Sthira Karaka of the > disappeared Chara > > > Karakatwa and see its strength. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In fact the above is a copy paste from an email > from Visti. > > > > > > Sarabani ji was also present with Visti ji and > many others when > > > Sanjay ji was teaching this concept on the East > Coast. I went > back > > > last night and listened to the recording of the > lecture and one > of the > > > cases that were analyzed was of Sarabani. > Another example was of > my > > > own chart. Sanjay ji clearly talks of > replacement of the higher > chara > > > karaka with that of the lower. And the lower > chara karaka that > moves > > > up the ladder(I think heres where you differ) is > replaced by the > > > Sthira Karaka. > > > > > > Indira Gandhi's chart was similarly analyzed by > Sanjay ji in a > > > different class and the analysis that I > presented was of course > > > gathered from his lecture. > > > > > > So obviously, Sanjay ji is using two different > approaches for the > 7 > > > and 8 chara karaka schemes. Sarabani's comments > appear to agree > to > > > your explanation of the 7 chara karaka scheme > which is fine for > > > mundane charts-this was discussed on the west > coast. > > > > > > I only repeated whatever my Gurus taught me but > since you have > raised > > > a question about it, in my opinion its best to > wait for Sanjay > ji's > > > comments. > > > > > > Hare Krishna > > > > > > Sudharsan > > > > > > > > > */Chandrashekhar <boxdel>/* wrote: > > > > > > Dear Sudarshan, > > > In the example given, if Saturn and Venus > both have identical > > > degrees, how can Saturn be called as > Atmakaraka and Venus > > > Amatyakaraka is something I do not > understand. Parashara says > that > > > the Planet gaining highest degrees becomes > the Atmakaraka. > > > Therefore both would become Atmakaraka(By > degrees > degrees,minutes > > > and seconds are implied). Now if we take > your first premise of > > > Sthira Karaka replacing Amatyakaraka > position would be > filled in > > > by the Sthira karaka. No replacement of > Saturn by Venus > would be > > > possible. Should one have higher minutes > then it would be > Madhya > > > Karaka and should minutes too be identical > one with higher > seconds > > > would be called Upakheta. > > > > > > Parashara says that some say that Rahu > replaces the Karaka ( > Blank > > > created) and some say that irrespective of > such a state Rahu > has > > > to be considered as one of the Karakas even > if such state > arises. > > > He has not expressed what he considers to be > correct. After > this > > > having been considered should similarity of > Amsha, > minutes,seconds > > > arise then Sthira Karakas replace the blank > space due to such > > > identical amshas being obtained by the > other Karakas(Chara). > > > (Shloka1,2,3,4, to17 Chapter 32 BPHS) > > > > > > In light of this either Rahu could be the > Atmakaraka or both > Venus > > > and Saturn will be Atmakaraka and Rahu will > become > Amatyakaraka, > === message truncated === Protect your identity with Mail AddressGuard http://antispam./whatsnewfree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 16, 2003 Report Share Posted November 16, 2003 || Om Suryaaya Namah || || Om Sivaaya Namah || Dear Nitish, > Are you talking about degree boundaries (i.e. 0-1,1-2 degrees etc.) Yes It's degree boundaries like 0-1,1-2 etc not 1'30 to 2'30 etc > Also, why should the chara AK become weaker afterits natural age such that it can be replaced by charaAmK, which, infact, becomes stronger after its naturalage (to be able to replace chara AK)? This is like graha yuddha in chara kaarak level. The natural age is when a planet matures. It's just one type of timing when the yuddha is over or other takes over. This would mean either a degradation of atma shaktiof the person or strengthing of amatya shakti (i.e.shakti of AmK) or both!! The atma of a person cannot keep changing. It remains in heart center. Whether atma has a astrologically quantifiable shakti I am not sure. The use of natural age is just for timing. There maybe be other dasas to time but Guruji has not mentioned it. So this may be the best way. The atma just changes color. throughout i.e. chara AK is God in horoscope (Goddoesn't change, mortals do). The Ak is the soul within you it's not paramatma(supreme soul). Individuals directions in life can change. The individual atma is an amsa of the supreme like a small ray of light coming out many holes of pot having one lamp (Ref: Dakshinamurthi stotra). It's the Ishta devata which is the natives' Supreme understanding. It does not change. -Warm Regards S. Prabhakaran Hari Om Tat Sat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 16, 2003 Report Share Posted November 16, 2003 Dear Sanjayprabhakaran, Since I did not hear the lecture of Sanjay, I cannot comment on what he said in it. However, Cova does not mention replacement of Atmakaraka by Venus at its natural age, in the analysis. Again, Saturn's natural age being advanced than Venus, assuming the principle right, Venus could not replace Saturn at the age at which Indira Gandhi's nature changed. Saturn is the Vriddha planet, if I know my jyotish right. Now taking the natural age of planets literally would make one not have Saturn as Atmakaraka in most cases as Natural Age of Saturn Rahu and Ketu are said to be 100 whereas in Case of Venus it is 16 and Jupiter 30 (Jataka Paarijata). Even in the case of Mrs. Gandhi, it was not at the age of 16 that she became dictatorial and in Sanjay's case the replacement could not have happened at 36. However result wise application of age indicates Saturn itself giving its result in Sanjay's case. In Sanjay's case at the most Venus can get the status of Upaketa with a stretch of imagination as it is less than Saturn in minutes but not equal in minutes. I do not find any reference to such a change in atmakaraka indicated by Parashara or Jaimini the two Acharyas( the first one actually a Pravartaka) in their works. Parashara actually says that all other Karakas are subservient to Atmakaraka as subjects are to a King. Replacement occurs when on account of equal degrees more than two planets acquire common Karakatwa and even there the one with higher minutes gets importance over the other as indicated by the terms Antyakaraka, Madhya Karaka and Upaketa. In case replacement takes place why should be there exceptions in certain aspects and not others as per the theory being advanced is not very clear, at least to me. Just because a person's nature changed, could not be indicative of change occurring in Atmakaraka. The change is indicated in the chart and occurs at the time of appropriate Dasha and Transits. I would like to know the basis of this replacement theory as I do not find it in any astrological texts of Pravartakas or Acharyas. I hope Sanjay indicates the source of this replacement theory. Regards, Chandrashekhar. Sanjay Prabhakaran wrote: || Om Gurave Namah || Dear Chandrashekar, Saturn is Indira Gandhi's Birth atmakaaraka. That is not being disputed here. What is being discussed is the **replacement**. The principle which was taught by Guruji in west and east coast lectures is something like this. When two charakaaraka are in the same degree boundary, There is a fight between them to take the chara kaaraka role of the higher degree. After the natural age of the planet it can gain enough strength to replace it. In such a case the lower degreed charakaaraka is replaced by the sthira kaaraka of it. Examples discussed was one of Indira Gandhi and also Pt. Sanjay Rath himself has this chara Atma Kaaraka replacement from Saturn to Jupiter. In Guruji's chart the replacement could have occured at age 36 which is the natural age of Saturn at that time the role of atmakaarak as jupiter can be more pronounced. As I understand it The replacement is more external aspects of atmakaarak than the internal one. Guruji clearly said that 1) The Ishta devata does not change. 2) Yogas like Ak in 11th etc does not change (One cannot suddenly stop being a good jyotish after learning from young age). In case of Atmakaaraka being changed it just changes the whole life focus. Since the Atmakaaraka is the King in the chart. Like in the case of Gurudev Pt. Sanjay Rath. He quit the mundane government job jumped all in all into Jyotish education. This kind of change needed a strong change in Atma's direction or drive. In case of Ex PM Indira gandhi she changed from person who was very traditional lady to a very passionate lady rulling the country. You can test this principle in many charts not only at atmakaaraka level change even in other charakaaraka level. The details with references etc was given in lecture, You can learn from it. You just practice some after learning from the lecture you would understand it. If I am mistaken anywhere in understanding my teachings I request correction from Guruji. Warm Regards S. Prabhakaran Om Tat Sat |Om Tat Sat| http://www.varahamihira Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 16, 2003 Report Share Posted November 16, 2003 Dear Nitish, Perhaps you should address the question to Sanjayprabhakaran since I do not accept that replacement of Atmakaraka takes place, whether at natural age or otherwise. Anyway if we take the theory to be correct Saturn Rahu and Ketu's natural age is 100, what happens then is something to be pondered over. Regards, Chandrashekhar. Nitish Arya wrote: Dear Sanjay and Chandrashekar, Are you talking about degree boundaries (i.e. 0-1, 1-2 degrees etc.) or 1 degree intervals (like 1d30' - 2d30') for chara karaka replacements or both? In latter case, they will not be in same "trimsamsa". Also, why should the chara AK become weaker after its natural age such that it can be replaced by chara AmK, which, infact, becomes stronger after its natural age (to be able to replace chara AK)? This would mean either a degradation of atma shakti of the person or strengthing of amatya shakti (i.e. shakti of AmK) or both!! Since there is a chara AK before and after the chara karaka replacement of AK with AmK => atma shakti is a "different principle" from the planet (acting in role of AK) and is transferrable to another planet and thus any other person as well. This means that chara AK is just the carrier of atma shakti of a person rather than a permanent/absolute representation of the same, which contradicts the basic assumption used throughout i.e. chara AK is God in horoscope (God doesn't change, mortals do). OfCourse, while this apparent contradiction can be resolved in a bigger framework of universal existence, it becomes important to see the consequences of such a replacement. Chara AK shows the level of existence which gives you the false identity (as a Jeevatma) different from the bigger non-identified universal existence (as paramatma) and therefore shows the force which has a constant fight with the higher powers. This identity creates a dualistic world which is ruled by shakti of AmK. It becomes apparent that those people undergoing chara AK replacements in their life have such kind of karmic associations with the dualistic world that even after giving away their original identity (i.e. by working selflessly), they have another identity to give away to be able to attain an understanding/acceptance of higher existence as superior to and inclusive of the dualistic world. This is ofcourse rare!!! regards, nitish --- sanjayprabhakaran <sanjayp wrote: > || Om Gurave Namah || > Dear Chandrashekar, > If I may humbly suggest you. There are some > lectures given by Pt. > Sanjay Rath in 7 and 8 charakakarakas, chara kaarak > replacement in > west coast and in a east coast workshop in Navamsa > conducted by Visit > Larsen, Pt. Sanjay Rath has spoken about the Chara > kaaraka > replacements. I think ( I have not read & heard the > lecture yet) he > has qouted various texts indicating the chara karaka > replacements > when they are in the same degrees (basically same > trimsamsa since 1 > deg is one trimsamsa eg 0-1,1-2 etc degree > boundaries). > I think there is some confusion and what Sudarshan > says is what even > I understood and What Sarbani ji is saying is I > suppose for the 7/8 > chara kaaraka schemes. > > Warm Regards > S. Prabhakaran > > > varahamihira , Chandrashekhar > <boxdel> > wrote: > > Dear Sudarshan, > > Neither Parashara nor Jaimini indicate that > Planet with lesser > amshas > > (lower chara karakatwa means this) replaces the > one with higher > degrees > > anywhere, to the best of my knowledge. In fact not > only does > Parashara > > tells about Atmakaraka being the planet with > highest degrees, he > goes on > > to say that as a King is of prime importance so do > the effects of > other > > Karakas subject to those of Atmakaraka. > > Perhaps, we wait for Sanjay's comments. > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > Sudharsan Srinivasan wrote: > > > > > Hare Rama Krishna > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar, > > > > > > In my original post the data is given. Saturn is > the AK as it has > > > higher minutes( albeit on the same degree as > Venus).If they are > not > > > identical on the degree the following extract > from my original > post > > > will not apply- > > > > > > After having ascertained grahas occupying the > same degree, here > are > > > the steps: > > > > > > i) The Graha with a lower > Chara Karakatwa is > going > > > to replace the higher. > > > > > > ii) As a result the lower Chara > Karakatwa is > going to > > > disappear, in favor of a higher Karakatwa. > > > > > > iii) See the Sthira Karaka of the > disappeared Chara > > > Karakatwa and see its strength. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In fact the above is a copy paste from an email > from Visti. > > > > > > Sarabani ji was also present with Visti ji and > many others when > > > Sanjay ji was teaching this concept on the East > Coast. I went > back > > > last night and listened to the recording of the > lecture and one > of the > > > cases that were analyzed was of Sarabani. > Another example was of > my > > > own chart. Sanjay ji clearly talks of > replacement of the higher > chara > > > karaka with that of the lower. And the lower > chara karaka that > moves > > > up the ladder(I think heres where you differ) is > replaced by the > > > Sthira Karaka. > > > > > > Indira Gandhi's chart was similarly analyzed by > Sanjay ji in a > > > different class and the analysis that I > presented was of course > > > gathered from his lecture. > > > > > > So obviously, Sanjay ji is using two different > approaches for the > 7 > > > and 8 chara karaka schemes. Sarabani's comments > appear to agree > to > > > your explanation of the 7 chara karaka scheme > which is fine for > > > mundane charts-this was discussed on the west > coast. > > > > > > I only repeated whatever my Gurus taught me but > since you have > raised > > > a question about it, in my opinion its best to > wait for Sanjay > ji's > > > comments. > > > > > > Hare Krishna > > > > > > Sudharsan > > > > > > > > > */Chandrashekhar <boxdel>/* wrote: > > > > > > Dear Sudarshan, > > > In the example given, if Saturn and Venus > both have identical > > > degrees, how can Saturn be called as > Atmakaraka and Venus > > > Amatyakaraka is something I do not > understand. Parashara says > that > > > the Planet gaining highest degrees becomes > the Atmakaraka. > > > Therefore both would become Atmakaraka(By > degrees > degrees,minutes > > > and seconds are implied). Now if we take > your first premise of > > > Sthira Karaka replacing Amatyakaraka > position would be > filled in > > > by the Sthira karaka. No replacement of > Saturn by Venus > would be > > > possible. Should one have higher minutes > then it would be > Madhya > > > Karaka and should minutes too be identical > one with higher > seconds > > > would be called Upakheta. > > > > > > Parashara says that some say that Rahu > replaces the Karaka ( > Blank > > > created) and some say that irrespective of > such a state Rahu > has > > > to be considered as one of the Karakas even > if such state > arises. > > > He has not expressed what he considers to be > correct. After > this > > > having been considered should similarity of > Amsha, > minutes,seconds > > > arise then Sthira Karakas replace the blank > space due to such > > > identical amshas being obtained by the > other Karakas(Chara). > > > (Shloka1,2,3,4, to17 Chapter 32 BPHS) > > > > > > In light of this either Rahu could be the > Atmakaraka or both > Venus > > > and Saturn will be Atmakaraka and Rahu will > become > Amatyakaraka, > === message truncated === Protect your identity with Mail AddressGuard http://antispam./whatsnewfree |Om Tat Sat| http://www.varahamihira Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 16, 2003 Report Share Posted November 16, 2003 ... hamsassoham .. Dear Sanjay, The Ak is the soul within you it's not paramatma(supreme soul). Individuals directions in life can change. The individual atma is an amsa of the supreme like a small ray of light coming out many holes of pot having one lamp (Ref: Dakshinamurthi stotra). It's the Ishta devata which is the natives' Supreme understanding. It does not change. The Gaudiya philosophy teaches that the individual atma is an amsa of the paramatma. The Dakshinamiurthi stotra, written by Adi Shankara espouses the advaita philosophy. I find it intriguing when we use one to support the other. To understand this sloka, we can look at Sri Suresvara’s varttika on it. Isvara who had been excessively deluded by maya, shines by knowledge. By meditation on the (ahankara which is) without modifications the Atman shines well. When the covering called avidya is good rid off, this Supreme Lord in the form of Dakshinamurti shines by himself. (Manasollasa 36-37). You interpreted the original verse to show that there is a difference between the unlimited light in the pot, and the limited light shining through the pot (paramatma vs jeevatma). However, Sri Suresvara shows us how to interpret his teacher’s words. The import is that the pot (covering) is maya / avidya. When we learn to see past the avidya / maya, there is no pot….thus, there is no difference between the light what is in the pot, or the light that shines through the pot, either qualitatively or quantitatively. I have always wondered about the statement “The jeevatma is similar to the paramatma in quality, but not in quantity”. I am using this oppurtunity to ask my doubts. By definition, paramatma is complete, all-pervading, infinite etc. If the paramatma does not qualitatively contain what is in the jeevatma, it cannot be complete. Thus, it must contain the contents of the jeevatma (qualitatively). Jeevatma is an amsa of the paramatma (assumption). Even though many jeevatmas have come forth from the paramatma, the paramatma remains complete. As per the well-known statement “poornamadaH …” everything that comes out of the paramatma will also retain those characteristics. There is no mention of quantity there. Thus, the paramatma remains complete, and the jeevatma is also complete. This contradicts the statement we are analyzing. The only other analysis is that when jeevatmas issue forth from the paramatma, the paramatma does not remain complete. This is also unacceptable. Thus, I always end up contradicting the original statement. Is there some fault with my logic? ajit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 16, 2003 Report Share Posted November 16, 2003 || Om Gurave Namah || Dear Ajit, I did not want in anyway support one phylosophy or other. Excuse me if in anyway I was trying to support advaita. The chara kaaraka replacements can be understood without delving into those phylosophy. Warm Regards S. Prabhakaran - Ajit Krishnan varahamihira Sunday, November 16, 2003 2:45 PM RE: |Sri Varaha| Re: Chara Karaka Replacement ... hamsassoham .. Dear Sanjay, The Ak is the soul within you it's not paramatma(supreme soul). Individuals directions in life can change. The individual atma is an amsa of the supreme like a small ray of light coming out many holes of pot having one lamp (Ref: Dakshinamurthi stotra). It's the Ishta devata which is the natives' Supreme understanding. It does not change. The Gaudiya philosophy teaches that the individual atma is an amsa of the paramatma. The Dakshinamiurthi stotra, written by Adi Shankara espouses the advaita philosophy. I find it intriguing when we use one to support the other. To understand this sloka, we can look at Sri Suresvara’s varttika on it. Isvara who had been excessively deluded by maya, shines by knowledge. By meditation on the (ahankara which is) without modifications the Atman shines well. When the covering called avidya is good rid off, this Supreme Lord in the form of Dakshinamurti shines by himself. (Manasollasa 36-37). You interpreted the original verse to show that there is a difference between the unlimited light in the pot, and the limited light shining through the pot (paramatma vs jeevatma). However, Sri Suresvara shows us how to interpret his teacher’s words. The import is that the pot (covering) is maya / avidya. When we learn to see past the avidya / maya, there is no pot….thus, there is no difference between the light what is in the pot, or the light that shines through the pot, either qualitatively or quantitatively. I have always wondered about the statement “The jeevatma is similar to the paramatma in quality, but not in quantity”. I am using this oppurtunity to ask my doubts. By definition, paramatma is complete, all-pervading, infinite etc. If the paramatma does not qualitatively contain what is in the jeevatma, it cannot be complete. Thus, it must contain the contents of the jeevatma (qualitatively). Jeevatma is an amsa of the paramatma (assumption). Even though many jeevatmas have come forth from the paramatma, the paramatma remains complete. As per the well-known statement “poornamadaH …” everything that comes out of the paramatma will also retain those characteristics. There is no mention of quantity there. Thus, the paramatma remains complete, and the jeevatma is also complete. This contradicts the statement we are analyzing. The only other analysis is that when jeevatmas issue forth from the paramatma, the paramatma does not remain complete. This is also unacceptable. Thus, I always end up contradicting the original statement. Is there some fault with my logic? ajit|Om Tat Sat|http://www.varahamihira Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2003 Report Share Posted November 17, 2003 || Om Gurave Namah || Dear Nitish and Chandrashekar, The natural ages of planets as given in CoVA 9th house chapter is PLANET NUMBER YEARS OF AFFECTING FORTUNE Primary Secondary SUN 1 21,22 48,70 MOON 2 23,24 5,49 MARS 9 27,28 10,39 MERCURY 5 31,32 20,54 JUPITER 3 33,34 24,56 VENUS 6 25,26 6,52 SATURN 8 35,36 39,82 RAHU 4 45,46 * KETU 7 41,42 * * ( there is a typo in the book here i think) These ages of planets can be used many ways even in fructification of yogas etc. Like some say kuja dosha is reduced after age 28( I am not sure and do want to get in controversy here). What ever I am trying to say is to the best of my understanding as per Sri Jagannatha Center tradition which I feel others students should be aware. If other schools vary in their understanding we can take it as a case study. But always keep what is being taught to us as a standard. Narasimha Guruji or Sanjay Guruji will correct if I am wrong here. -Warm Regards S. Prabhakaran - Chandrashekhar varahamihira Sunday, November 16, 2003 1:37 PM Re: |Sri Varaha| Re: Chara Karaka Replacement Dear Nitish,Perhaps you should address the question to Sanjayprabhakaran since I do not accept that replacement of Atmakaraka takes place, whether at natural age or otherwise. Anyway if we take the theory to be correct Saturn Rahu and Ketu's natural age is 100, what happens then is something to be pondered over.Regards,Chandrashekhar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2003 Report Share Posted November 17, 2003 Dear sanjay, I have a few doubts. > This is like graha yuddha in chara kaarak level. The > natural age is when a planet matures. It's just one > type of timing when the yuddha is over or other > takes over. It cannot be like graha yuddha else AK will always win by virtue of being in a higher degree than AmK. Natural age is definitely just one type of timing but it seems it is the only type of timing being used to time chara karaka replacement and should be at the crux of this replacement principle. Unlike graha yuddha, chara karaka replacement does not seem to make the losing planet weaker chara karaka (it eliminates the losing planet from the chara karaka scheme and uses another planet - sthira karaka - to fill the winning planets' earlier position!), instead it is certainly making the weaker chara karaka as the winner. Therefore, for the chara karaka replacement to work, there should be another set of reasoning. Also, this should be related to the exact meaning of maturity of a planet. > The atma of a person cannot keep changing....The atma > just changes color. I don't understand the contradiction inherent in the above paragraph. >It remains in heart center. Whether atma has a > astrologically quantifiable shakti I am not sure. If the atma remains in heart centre and heart pumps non-stop for the whole life, and still atma mayn't have an " astrologically quantifiable " shakti then this is one of the most unusual thing. Why should anybody require the knowledge of an astrological quantity/quality to assert that atma has shakti? > The Ak is the soul within you it's not > paramatma(supreme soul). If my soul is not same as the supreme soul then it is useless to me. One who can differentiate between the Jeevatma and paramatma to such an extent that he understands that there is essentially no difference between the two is, ofcourse, the knower of supreme. > Individuals directions in > life can change....It's the Ishta devata which > is the natives' Supreme understanding. It does not > change. If Ishta devata is natives' supreme understanding and if that excludes an understanding of ones' individuality/soul (by virtue of changeability of individuals' directions in life versus unchangeability of ones' Ishta devata/supreme understanding) then only few people can understand it correctly. > The individual atma is an amsa of > the supreme like a small ray of light coming out > many holes of pot having one lamp (Ref: > Dakshinamurthi stotra). This gives a clue to the equivalence (in quality) of jeevatma and paramatma. The quantity is, ofcourse, an individuals' prerogative. regards, nitish --- Sanjay Prabhakaran <sanjayp wrote: > || Om Suryaaya Namah || > || Om Sivaaya Namah || > Dear Nitish, > > > Are you talking about degree boundaries (i.e. > 0-1, > 1-2 degrees etc.) > > Yes It's degree boundaries like 0-1,1-2 etc not 1'30 > to 2'30 etc > > > > Also, why should the chara AK become weaker > after > its natural age such that it can be replaced by > chara > AmK, which, infact, becomes stronger after its > natural > age (to be able to replace chara AK)? > > This is like graha yuddha in chara kaarak level. The > natural age is when a planet matures. It's just one > type of timing when the yuddha is over or other > takes over. > > This would mean either a degradation of atma > shakti > of the person or strengthing of amatya shakti (i.e. > shakti of AmK) or both!! > > The atma of a person cannot keep changing. It > remains in heart center. Whether atma has a > astrologically quantifiable shakti I am not sure. > The use of natural age is just for timing. There > maybe be other dasas to time but Guruji has not > mentioned it. So this may be the best way. The atma > just changes color. > > > throughout i.e. chara AK is God in horoscope (God > doesn't change, mortals do). > > The Ak is the soul within you it's not > paramatma(supreme soul). Individuals directions in > life can change. The individual atma is an amsa of > the supreme like a small ray of light coming out > many holes of pot having one lamp (Ref: > Dakshinamurthi stotra). It's the Ishta devata which > is the natives' Supreme understanding. It does not > change. > > > -Warm Regards > S. Prabhakaran > Hari Om Tat Sat Protect your identity with Mail AddressGuard http://antispam./whatsnewfree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2003 Report Share Posted November 17, 2003 ||Om Brihaspataye Namah|| Dear SanjayP, I thought that these data were for timing the effect of planets in or influencing the 9th house and not to be used as a general guide for all situations. The heading of the table clearly implies that. regards Hari varahamihira , " Sanjay Prabhakaran " <sanjayp@s...> wrote: > || Om Gurave Namah || > Dear Nitish and Chandrashekar, > The natural ages of planets as given in CoVA 9th house chapter is > > PLANET > NUMBER > YEARS OF AFFECTING > > FORTUNE > > Primary > Secondary > > SUN > 1 > 21,22 > 48,70 > > MOON > 2 > 23,24 > 5,49 > > MARS > 9 > 27,28 > 10,39 > > MERCURY > 5 > 31,32 > 20,54 > > JUPITER > 3 > 33,34 > 24,56 > > VENUS > 6 > 25,26 > 6,52 > > SATURN > 8 > 35,36 > 39,82 > > RAHU > 4 > 45,46 * > > > > KETU > 7 > 41,42 * > > > > > * ( there is a typo in the book here i think) > These ages of planets can be used many ways even in fructification of yogas etc. Like some say kuja dosha is reduced after age 28( I am not sure and do want to get in controversy here). > What ever I am trying to say is to the best of my understanding as per Sri Jagannatha Center tradition which I feel others students should be aware. If other schools vary in their understanding we can take it as a case study. But always keep what is being taught to us as a standard. Narasimha Guruji or Sanjay Guruji will correct if I am wrong here. > -Warm Regards > S. Prabhakaran > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2003 Report Share Posted November 17, 2003 || Jaya Jagannath || Dear Chandrashekhar, I am pasting the portion on the topic from Sanjayji’s article on Atmakaraka. Probably this might be of some help in understanding the issue. Best Wishes Sarajit Carakäraka disappearance We have already seen that when two or more planets are in the same degree (not minutes and seconds of arc), they fall into a special group for the carakäraka status of the one that is most advanced (see para 2.2 above). These käraka are also known as madhyakheöaù and antyakäraka. Paräsara: BPHS 16½-17 ÖaE ¢haE ÉagtuLyaE ce¾ayeta< ySy jNmin. 16. td¢karkSyEv< laepae }eyae iÖjaeÄm, iSwrkarkvzaÄSy )l< }ey< zuÉa=zuÉm!. 17. dvau grahau bhägatulyau cejjäyetäà yasya janmani || 16|| tadagrakärakasyaivaà lopo jïeyo dvijottama | sthirakärakavaçättasya phalaà jïeyaà çubhä'çubham || 17|| Lopa means breaking (refers to the break in the chain/order of the carakäraka), destruction (refers to one planet over powering another and taking over its carakäraka position) and disappearance (refers to a void created by the absence of a carakäraka). When two or more planets are in the same degree, then there is a tussle between then for the carakäraka position. The one with a higher longitude (considering minutes and seconds) is initially declared the carakäraka and the one with the lower longitude is relegated to the next lower carakäraka position in the rung while the one with the lowest goes one rung even lower in the carakäraka status. These lower carakäraka continue to strive for the higher status and are called madhyakheöaù and antyakäraka respectively. In such cases, the first käraka (agra) is gradually destroyed (lopa) and replaced by the lower one and finally the antyakäraka shall take over the signification. The vacuum created by the loss of one or more slots of the carakäraka as a lower carakäraka takes over the status of a carakäraka higher in the rung is to be filled by (a) first Rahu in the case of seven planet carakäraka scheme for non-living bodies and then the sthira käraka, and (2) sthira käraka in the case of the living beings where eight carakäraka scheme is used. This gives us a vital clue about mundane charts in that whenever we find two or more planets in the same degree, then the mischief-maker Rahu shall come into the picture of the seven-planet carakäraka scheme. In horoscopy, this can translate to the early loss of (or denial of) the person indicated by the carakäraka whose slot falls vacant and is to be examined only from sthira käraka. In fact the recommendation of Paräsara to use sthira käraka (fixed significators) to fill such slots hints at the need to examine the longevity of such relations as the sthira käraka are meant for such purpose. Chandrashekhar [boxdel] Friday, November 14, 2003 5:40 AM varahamihira Re: |Sri Varaha| Chara Karaka Replacement Dear Sudarshan, Neither Parashara nor Jaimini indicate that Planet with lesser amshas (lower chara karakatwa means this) replaces the one with higher degrees anywhere, to the best of my knowledge. In fact not only does Parashara tells about Atmakaraka being the planet with highest degrees, he goes on to say that as a King is of prime importance so do the effects of other Karakas subject to those of Atmakaraka. Perhaps, we wait for Sanjay's comments. Chandrashekhar. Sudharsan Srinivasan wrote: Hare Rama Krishna Dear Chandrashekhar, In my original post the data is given. Saturn is the AK as it has higher minutes( albeit on the same degree as Venus).If they are not identical on the degree the following extract from my original post will not apply- After having ascertained grahas occupying the same degree, here are the steps: i) The Graha with a lower Chara Karakatwa is going to replace the higher. ii) As a result the lower Chara Karakatwa is going to disappear, in favor of a higher Karakatwa. iii) See the Sthira Karaka of the disappeared Chara Karakatwa and see its strength. In fact the above is a copy paste from an email from Visti. Sarabani ji was also present with Visti ji and many others when Sanjay ji was teaching this concept on the East Coast. I went back last night and listened to the recording of the lecture and one of the cases that were analyzed was of Sarabani. Another example was of my own chart. Sanjay ji clearly talks of replacement of the higher chara karaka with that of the lower. And the lower chara karaka that moves up the ladder(I think heres where you differ) is replaced by the Sthira Karaka. Indira Gandhi's chart was similarly analyzed by Sanjay ji in a different class and the analysis that I presented was of course gathered from his lecture. So obviously, Sanjay ji is using two different approaches for the 7 and 8 chara karaka schemes. Sarabani's comments appear to agree to your explanation of the 7 chara karaka scheme which is fine for mundane charts-this was discussed on the west coast. I only repeated whatever my Gurus taught me but since you have raised a question about it, in my opinion its best to wait for Sanjay ji's comments. Hare Krishna Sudharsan Chandrashekhar <boxdel wrote: Dear Sudarshan, In the example given, if Saturn and Venus both have identical degrees, how can Saturn be called as Atmakaraka and Venus Amatyakaraka is something I do not understand. Parashara says that the Planet gaining highest degrees becomes the Atmakaraka. Therefore both would become Atmakaraka(By degrees degrees,minutes and seconds are implied). Now if we take your first premise of Sthira Karaka replacing Amatyakaraka position would be filled in by the Sthira karaka. No replacement of Saturn by Venus would be possible. Should one have higher minutes then it would be Madhya Karaka and should minutes too be identical one with higher seconds would be called Upakheta. Parashara says that some say that Rahu replaces the Karaka ( Blank created) and some say that irrespective of such a state Rahu has to be considered as one of the Karakas even if such state arises. He has not expressed what he considers to be correct. After this having been considered should similarity of Amsha, minutes,seconds arise then Sthira Karakas replace the blank space due to such identical amshas being obtained by the other Karakas(Chara). (Shloka1,2,3,4, to17 Chapter 32 BPHS) In light of this either Rahu could be the Atmakaraka or both Venus and Saturn will be Atmakaraka and Rahu will become Amatyakaraka, assuming the Degrees, minutes and second of Saturn and Venus are equal. Sarbaniji has also said that what I am saying is in line with what Sanjay taught. I hope this clarifies the matter. Regards, Chandrashekhar. Sudharsan Srinivasan wrote: Hare Rama Krishna Dear Chandrashekhar, I fail to see the contradiction in the eight chara karaka scheme.Just to be sure we are on the same page, lets take Indira Gandhi's case.The atmakaraka and amatyakaraka are on the same degree.Saturn is the Atmakaraka and Venus is the Amatyakaraka.At the natural ages of the planets involved, the following takes place according to whatever I understood from Sanjay ji and Visti- a) Venus replaces Saturn as the Atmakaraka b) Saturn moves out of the picture c) the sthira Amatyakaraka replaces Venus Can you kindly expand on your comment using the above.Many thanks. Hare Krishna Sudharsan Chandrashekhar Sharma <boxdel wrote: Dear Sarbani, Thank you for confirming the veracity of my statement. I was certain that Sanjay could not teach as was being professed. Probably there was a mistake of perception by the students. By the way, I had sent you a mail about Puri Conference accommodation on Vyasa mail id. I have yet to hear from you. Should you have not received the mail, kindly let me know, so that I can send the same again. Also indicate on which of your mail IDs would you like to receive the same. Regards, Chandrashekhar. Sarbani Sarkar [sarbani] Tuesday, November 11, 2003 6:45 PM varahamihira RE: |Sri Varaha| Chara Karaka Replacement Dear Chandrashekharji, What you say is what Sanjayji taught in the west coast. Rahu replaces the vacancy, and at the second level, the sthira karaka steps in. Best regards, Sarbani Chandrashekhar Sharma [boxdel] Sunday, November 09, 2003 1:50 PM varahamihira RE: |Sri Varaha| Chara Karaka Replacement Dear Sudarshan, If I remember my astrology right, replacement takes place in 7 Chara Karaka scheme where Rahu replaces the place left vacant by two planets aquiring similar degrees and if this happens down the ladder, Sthira Karaka replaces the place left vacant. In case of 8 Chara Karakas, by extension of the same logic, Sthira karaka should fill in the place left vacant and the moving down the ladder appears to contradict this. May be, Sanjay will give his inputs on this. Regards, Chandrashekhar. Sudharsan Srinivasan [sudhar108] Sunday, November 09, 2003 5:22 AM vedic astrology ; varahamihira |Sri Varaha| Chara Karaka Replacement HARE RAMA KRISHNA Dear List and Jk, The chara Karaka replacement principle was discussed very recently in a workshop by Sanjay ji and yesterday Visti happened to clarify the same to me in detail.Since JK brought the question up in his recent email, Visti suggested that I explain the principle. Chara karakas get replaced when they fall in the same degree. The planet with the lower degree loses its chara karakatwa and moves up the ladder. As a result the planet with the higher degree drops off the chara karaka list.For example, if the Atmakaraka and Amatyakaraka share the same longitude but differ only by a few minutes, at some point, the Amtyakaraka ascends to act as the Atmakaraka and the planet that was acting as the Atmakaraka completely moves out of the picture. The empty slot of the Amatyakaraka is filled by the sthira Amatyakaraka. If the sthira karaka is weak, the relative of the native represented by the planet lose their longevity. For example if the slot of Darakaraka is filled by the Sthira Darakaraka Venus, and Venus is weak in the chart, the longevity of the Spouse(in the case of males) can be affected. After having ascertained grahas occupying the same degree, here are the steps: i) The Graha with a lower Chara Karakatwa is going to replace the higher. ii) As a result the lower Chara Karakatwa is going to disappear, in favor of a higher Karakatwa. iii) See the Sthira Karaka of the disappeared Chara Karakatwa and see its strength. A good example of Chara Karaka replacement is in the case of the late prime minister of India, Indira Gandhi. The details of Karakas are given below and we find that Saturn is the AK posited in lagna and Venus is the Amatyakaraka posited in the sixth house with Rahu. Both Saturn and Venus share the longitude, of 21 Degrees.At the natural age of Saturn, i.e 36,Saturn moved out of the picture and Venus took up the role of Atmakaraka(I am not certain about the timing as to whether it was the natural age of Venus or Saturn). It was observed that the native initially was never interested in politics and was very family and tradition bound. These are clear signs of the influence of Saturn as Atmakaraka. She was infact very attached and devoted to her husband. But once Venus took over as Atmakaraka,there was a 180 degree turn and she got into politics at the cost of her family.Venus is placed in the sixth with Rahu and she was a good administrator(Venus) but also had the influence of Rahu.There are other influences in the chart like that of the parivarthana between Jupiter and Venus that explain the role of the ninth lord(Father) who was the reason for her entry into politics.Now Venus is also in a 2/12 relationship with the Sun who is the chara darakaraka. Sanjay ji suggested that we could use Naisargika Dasa to time these changes incombination with the natural age of planets.However, we didnt get into details and this is a topic for further research and of course the mercy of Sanjay ji. I request Visti to add or correct the above if needed. Hare Krishna Sudharsan Indira Gandhi Natal Chart November 19, 1917 Time: 11:07:00 pm Time Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT) Place: 81 E 52' 00 " , 25 N 28' 00 " Edison, New Jersey, USA Altitude: 160.00 meters Lunar Yr-Mo: Pingala - Karthika Tithi: Sukla Shashthi (Ve) (88.15% left) Vedic Weekday: Monday (Mo) Nakshatra: Uttarashadha (Su) (33.38% left) Yoga: Ganda (Sa) Karana: Kaulava (Ma) Hora Lord: Jupiter (5 min sign: Le) Mahakala Hora: Mars (5 min sign: Ar) Kaala Lord: Saturn (Mahakala: Saturn) Sunrise: 6:22:23 am Sunset: 5:12:22 pm Janma Ghatis: 41.8592 Ayanamsa: 22-42-54.40 Sidereal Time: 2:57:10 Body Longitude Nakshatra Pada Rasi Navamsa Lagna 26 Cn 30' 54.66 " Asre 3 Cn Aq Sun - DK 4 Sc 07' 39.45 " Anu 1 Sc Le Moon - GK 5 Cp 32' 57.86 " USha 3 Cp Aq Mars - MK 16 Le 22' 39.05 " PPha 1 Le Le Mercury - PK 13 Sc 14' 13.92 " Anu 3 Sc Li Jupiter ® - PiK 14 Ta 59' 54.96 " Rohi 2 Ta Ta Venus - AmK 21 Sg 00' 23.54 " PSha 3 Sg Li Saturn - AK 21 Cn 47' 14.55 " Asre 2 Cn Cp Rahu - BK 10 Sg 33' 54.70 " Mool 4 Sg Cn Ketu 10 Ge 33' 54.70 " Ardr 2 Ge Cp Maandi 11 Ge 21' 52.00 " Ardr 2 Ge Cp Gulika 29 Ta 54' 51.50 " Mrig 2 Ta Vi Uranus 27 Cp 15' 15.47 " Dhan 2 Cp Vi Neptune ® 14 Cn 22' 00.67 " Push 4 Cn Sc Pluto ® 12 Ge 27' 16.92 " Ardr 2 Ge Cp Bhava Lagna 14 Cn 34' 41.66 " Push 4 Cn Sc Hora Lagna 25 Pi 43' 59.98 " Reva 3 Pi Aq Ghati Lagna 29 Ar 11' 54.95 " Krit 1 Ar Sg Vighati Lagna 16 Li 31' 29.82 " Swat 3 Li Aq Varnada Lagna 22 Cn 14' 54.64 " Asre 2 Cn Cp Sree Lagna 26 Pi 20' 56.86 " Reva 3 Pi Aq Pranapada Lagna 17 Ge 13' 45.94 " Ardr 4 Ge Pi Indu Lagna 5 Ge 32' 57.86 " Mrig 4 Ge Sc Dhooma 17 Pi 27' 39.45 " Reva 1 Pi Sg Vyatipata 12 Ar 32' 20.55 " Aswi 4 Ar Cn Parivesha 12 Li 32' 20.55 " Swat 2 Li Cp Indra Chapa 17 Vi 27' 39.45 " Hast 3 Vi Ge Upaketu 4 Li 07' 39.45 " Chit 4 Li Sc Kaala 24 Cn 37' 00.87 " Asre 3 Cn Aq Mrityu 8 Vi 47' 45.44 " UPha 4 Vi Pi Artha Prahara 1 Li 03' 52.96 " Chit 3 Li Li Yama Ghantaka 22 Li 51' 56.34 " Visa 1 Li Ar Prana Sphuta 12 Cp 29' 24.80 " Srav 1 Cp Ar Deha Sphuta 14 Cn 18' 34.37 " Push 4 Cn Sc Mrityu Sphuta 3 Cp 31' 39.93 " USha 3 Cp Aq Trisphuta 0 Aq 19' 39.10 " Dhan 3 Aq Li V2 22 Vi 14' 54.64 " Hast 4 Vi Cn V3 22 Sc 14' 54.64 " Jye 2 Sc Cp V4 22 Cp 14' 54.64 " Srav 4 Cp Cn V5 22 Pi 14' 54.64 " Reva 2 Pi Cp V6 22 Ta 14' 54.64 " Rohi 4 Ta Cn V7 22 Cn 14' 54.64 " Asre 2 Cn Cp V8 22 Vi 14' 54.64 " Hast 4 Vi Cn V9 22 Sc 14' 54.64 " Jye 2 Sc Cp V10 22 Cp 14' 54.64 " Srav 4 Cp Cn V11 22 Pi 14' 54.64 " Reva 2 Pi Cp V12 22 Ta 14' 54.64 " Rohi 4 Ta Cn Kunda 17 Ge 43' 47.51 " Ardr 4 Ge Pi +--------------+ |HL |GL AL |JuR Gk |Ke Md | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |-----------+-----------------------+-----------| | | |As Sa | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |-----------| Rasi |-----------| |Mo | |Ma | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |-----------+-----------------------+-----------| |Ve Ra |Su Me | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | +--------------+ +--------------+ | | |JuR | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |-----------+-----------------------+-----------| |As Mo | |Ra | |HL | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |-----------| Navamsa |-----------| |Sa Ke | |Su Ma | |Md | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |-----------+-----------------------+-----------| |GL AL | |Me Ve |Gk | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | +--------------+ Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon): Sun Sun 1913-11-20 Moon 1914-03-07 Mars 1914-09-09 Rah 1915-01-13 Jup 1915-12-09 Sat 1916-09-27 Merc 1917-09-09 Ket 1918-07-15 Ven 1918-11-21 Moon Moon 1919-11-21 Mars 1920-09-21 Rah 1921-04-18 Jup 1922-10-22 Sat 1924-02-18 Merc 1925-09-21 Ket 1927-02-17 Ven 1927-09-22 Sun 1929-05-19 Mars Mars 1929-11-21 Rah 1930-04-15 Jup 1931-05-04 Sat 1932-04-09 Merc 1933-05-19 Ket 1934-05-16 Ven 1934-10-16 Sun 1935-12-15 Moon 1936-04-18 Rah Rah 1936-11-20 Jup 1939-08-03 Sat 1941-12-26 Merc 1944-11-02 Ket 1947-05-20 Ven 1948-06-07 Sun 1951-06-08 Moon 1952-04-30 Mars 1953-11-03 Jup Jup 1954-11-21 Sat 1957-01-07 Merc 1959-07-22 Ket 1961-10-28 Ven 1962-10-04 Sun 1965-06-01 Moon 1966-03-19 Mars 1967-07-22 Rah 1968-06-26 Sat Sat 1970-11-21 Merc 1973-11-24 Ket 1976-08-03 Ven 1977-09-12 Sun 1980-11-12 Moon 1981-10-25 Mars 1983-05-23 Rah 1984-07-02 Jup 1987-05-08 Merc Merc 1989-11-21 Ket 1992-04-15 Ven 1993-04-13 Sun 1996-02-12 Moon 1996-12-20 Mars 1998-05-20 Rah 1999-05-17 Jup 2001-12-06 Sat 2004-03-10 Ket Ket 2006-11-21 Ven 2007-04-16 Sun 2008-06-17 Moon 2008-10-25 Mars 2009-05-23 Rah 2009-10-22 Jup 2010-11-09 Sat 2011-10-17 Merc 2012-11-24 Ven Ven 2013-11-21 Sun 2017-03-19 Moon 2018-03-20 Mars 2019-11-22 Rah 2021-01-19 Jup 2024-01-20 Sat 2026-09-22 Merc 2029-11-21 Ket 2032-09-22 Please Chant ---- HARE KRISHNA HARE KRISHNA KRISHNA KRISHNA HARE HARE HARE RAMA HARE RAMA RAMA RAMA HARE HARE and Be happy |Om Tat Sat| http://www.varahamihira Your use of is subject to the Terms of Service. |Om Tat Sat| http://www.varahamihira Your use of is subject to the Terms of Service. |Om Tat Sat| http://www.varahamihira Your use of is subject to the Terms of Service. |Om Tat Sat| http://www.varahamihira Your use of is subject to the Terms of Service. Please Chant ---- HARE KRISHNA HARE KRISHNA KRISHNA KRISHNA HARE HARE HARE RAMA HARE RAMA RAMA RAMA HARE HARE and Be happy |Om Tat Sat| http://www.varahamihira Your use of is subject to the Terms of Service. |Om Tat Sat| http://www.varahamihira Your use of is subject to the Terms of Service. Please Chant ---- HARE KRISHNA HARE KRISHNA KRISHNA KRISHNA HARE HARE HARE RAMA HARE RAMA RAMA RAMA HARE HARE and Be happy |Om Tat Sat| http://www.varahamihira Your use of is subject to the Terms of Service. |Om Tat Sat| http://www.varahamihira Your use of is subject to the Terms of Service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2003 Report Share Posted November 17, 2003 || Om Gurave Namah || Dear Hari, > I thought that these data were for timing the effect of planets in Your thinking is wrong. Read & listen to lectures more, particularly see Pt. Sanjayji use these in so many ways to time events. He does even use Dasa sometimes. These dates are related to Naisargika Dasa. I am not sure if the advanced students class had been recorded If it's recorded and being released as cassette/cd you should listen to it. -Warm Regards S. Prabhakaran Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2003 Report Share Posted November 17, 2003 Dear Sanjayprabhakaran, The ages obviously refer to 9th house indication. Nowhere does it say that these apply to Atmakaraka replacement. So there does not appear to be any logic applying them there. Natural Ages of planets are different. Sri Jagannath tradition follows Parashara, so in case of any variance Parashara must overrule, is the way I see things. I could be wrong. Regards, Chandrashekhar. Sanjay Prabhakaran [sanjayp]Monday, November 17, 2003 7:23 AMvarahamihira Subject: Re: |Sri Varaha| Re: Chara Karaka Replacement || Om Gurave Namah || Dear Nitish and Chandrashekar, The natural ages of planets as given in CoVA 9th house chapter is PLANET NUMBER YEARS OF AFFECTING FORTUNE Primary Secondary SUN 1 21,22 48,70 MOON 2 23,24 5,49 MARS 9 27,28 10,39 MERCURY 5 31,32 20,54 JUPITER 3 33,34 24,56 VENUS 6 25,26 6,52 SATURN 8 35,36 39,82 RAHU 4 45,46 * KETU 7 41,42 * * ( there is a typo in the book here i think) These ages of planets can be used many ways even in fructification of yogas etc. Like some say kuja dosha is reduced after age 28( I am not sure and do want to get in controversy here). What ever I am trying to say is to the best of my understanding as per Sri Jagannatha Center tradition which I feel others students should be aware. If other schools vary in their understanding we can take it as a case study. But always keep what is being taught to us as a standard. Narasimha Guruji or Sanjay Guruji will correct if I am wrong here. -Warm Regards S. Prabhakaran - Chandrashekhar varahamihira Sunday, November 16, 2003 1:37 PM Re: |Sri Varaha| Re: Chara Karaka Replacement Dear Nitish,Perhaps you should address the question to Sanjayprabhakaran since I do not accept that replacement of Atmakaraka takes place, whether at natural age or otherwise. Anyway if we take the theory to be correct Saturn Rahu and Ketu's natural age is 100, what happens then is something to be pondered over.Regards,Chandrashekhar.|Om Tat Sat|http://www.varahamihira Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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