Saturn in fifth(Re:-SJC HYDERABAD, 14th march meeting)

March 17, 2004

Dear Ramdas Ji

Thank you for the kind inputs.

Rishi raj manglesh whose chart i had provided is a gold medalist in

archery, whereas i am not even a tamra medalist. Let us see what

Sanjayji says.

best wishes

partha

varahamihira , Ramadas Rao <ramadasrao>

wrote:

>

> ` nmae naray[ay,

> om namo näräyaëäya|

> Dear Partha,

> Now I have some discrepency in the meaning of Swamsha.In JMUS by

Sanjay Ji he has mentioned in 1.2.1 that Swamsha refers to Lagna

Navamsha but again at the end of that para,he mentioned " Swa

generally refers to Lagna and in broader sense ,includes Atma

Karaka. " That means he has given 2 contradictory meanings that

Swamsha is either Lagnamsha or Karakamsha. Now which one we have to

take into consideration ? But again Shri Sanjay Ji has mentioned in "

Explanatory notes & Case studies " ,under the heading of " Swamsha " ,

( Page 59 )that Swamsha has to be considered as Karakamsha and now I

think we have to think that the word Swamsha means Karkamsha in

Navamsha Chart.

> Now Prof.P.S.Shastri Ji in his JMUS,he states Swamsha is Karakamsha

and has given results as per AK's position in Navamsha.This has

further made me confused.So now I wanted to clarify which one we have

to take into consideration ? Either Swamsha is Lagnamsha or

Karakamsha ?

> Another Jyotish Scholar B.G.Acharya from Mangalore in his " Mandi

and Upagrahas " book,he also mentions he results from Karakamsha and

not from Lagnamsha.

> So now TATRA SHANAU DHAANUSHKAH meaning has to be taken as Saturn

alone in 5th house (From karakamsha )produces an Archer and in

modern days this may include missiles,spears etc.

> The same meaning is given by Prof.P.S.Shastri Ji also but he

considers the results of Saturn alone in 2nd from Karakamsha makes

one weild weapons of warefare.

> Now Shri B.G.Acharya gives another Shloka " RAVAU KHADGADHARO

JAATAH KUJE KUNTAAYUDHEE BHAVET.

> SHANAU DHANURDHARO JNEYO RAAHAU CHA LOHAYANTRAVAAN. " Meaning Sun in

5th from Karaksmha makes one live by the sword or a soldier,Mars in

5th from Karakasmha makes one weild the spear,Shani in the same

position makes one weild weapons of warfare,and Rahu in the same

position makes one manufacturer of machines of iron and steel.

> So now when I get the meanings like the above from different

books,which one we have to consider correctly ?

> I hope only Sanjay Ji can give the correct answers to these

questions.

> I hope this helps you.

> With Shri Hari Vaayu Naama Smarana,

> Ramadas Rao.

>

> partha sarathy <partvinu5> wrote:

> Dear Gurus,

>

> We had convened the SJC hyderabad Meeting on 14th March 2004. We

were doing a few charts, but as suggested by Guru Pt.Rath, we took up

Jaimini Sutras.

>

> We were stuck at a sutra which says that " SATURN ALONE IN FIFTH

from swamsa MAKES for AN archer "

> While i have saturn in alone, and i am not an archer, while another

member of our group, has four planets including saturn in fifth from

swamsa, and he is one.

>

> 1. PARTHA

> Natal Chart

> December 15, 1976

> Time: 8:27:00

> Time Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT)

> Longitude: 77 E 12' 00 "

> Latitude: 28 N 36' 00 "

>

> +--------------+

> |HL | | | |

> | | | | |

> |-----------+-----------------------+-----------|

> |Mar | | |

> | | | |

> |-----------| Navamsa |-----------|

> |SatR | | |

> | | | |

> |-----------+-----------------------+-----------|

> | | | |GL |

> | | | | |

> +--------------+

>

> 2. RISHI RAJ MANGLESH

> Natal Chart

> February 19, 1981

> Time: 2:25:29

> Time Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT)

> Longitude: 76 E 40' 00 "

> Latitude: 32 N 02' 00 "

> Altitude: 0.00 meters

>

> +--------------+

> | | |Moo JupR | |

> | | |SatR Ket | |

> | | |HL | |

> | | | | |

> |-----------+-----------------------+-----------|

> |Mar GL | | |

> |Mnd Glk | | |

> | | | |

> |-----------| Navamsa |-----------|

> |Asc | |Ven |

> | | | |

> |-----------+-----------------------+-----------|

> | |Sun MerR | |AL |

> | |Rah | | |

> | | | | |

> +--------------+

>

> Kindly look into this Pt.Rath, or else we shall give up reading

Jaimini Sutras.and do something else.

> best wishes

> partha

>

> Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam

>

> |Om Tat Sat|

> http://www.varahamihira

>

March 17, 2004

Dear Partha,

I think Swamsha would mean Navamsha Rasi occupied by the planet. So 5th

from swamsha would mean that the planet has to be 5th from the Rasi in

Navamsha occupied by him to be seen in Natal Horoscope.

Of course others might have different views.

Chandrashekhar.

partha sarathy wrote:

> Dear Gurus,

>

> We had convened the SJC hyderabad Meeting on 14th March 2004. We were

> doing a few charts, but as suggested by Guru Pt.Rath, we took up

> Jaimini Sutras.

>

> We were stuck at a sutra which says that " SATURN ALONE IN FIFTH from

> swamsa MAKES for AN archer "

> While i have saturn in alone, and i am not an archer, while another

> member of our group, has four planets including saturn in fifth from

> swamsa, and he is one.

>

> 1. PARTHA

> Natal Chart

> December 15, 1976

> Time: 8:27:00

> Time Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT)

> Longitude: 77 E 12' 00 "

> Latitude: 28 N 36' 00 "

>

> *+--------------+

> |HL | | | |

> | | | | |

> |-----------+-----------------------+-----------|

> |Mar | | |

> | | | |

> |-----------| Navamsa |-----------|

> |SatR | | |

> | | | |

> |-----------+-----------------------+-----------|

> | | | |GL |

> | | | | |

> +--------------+*

>

> *2. RISHI RAJ MANGLESH*

> *Natal Chart*

> * February 19, 1981

> Time: 2:25:29

> Time Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT)

> Longitude: 76 E 40' 00 "

> Latitude: 32 N 02' 00 "

> Altitude: 0.00 meters*

> **

> *+--------------+

> | | |Moo JupR | |

> | | |SatR Ket | |

> | | |HL | |

> | | | | |

> |-----------+-----------------------+-----------|

> |Mar GL | | |

> |Mnd Glk | | |

> | | | |

> |-----------| Navamsa |-----------|

> |Asc | |Ven |

> | | | |

> |-----------+-----------------------+-----------|

> | |Sun MerR | |AL |

> | |Rah | | |

> | | | | |

> +--------------+

>

> *

> *Kindly look into this Pt.Rath, or else we shall give up reading

> Jaimini Sutras.and do something else.*

> *best wishes*

> *partha*

> **

>

> * Mail*

> <http://us.rd./mailtag_us/*> - More

> reliable, more storage, less spam

>

> |Om Tat Sat|

> http://www.varahamihira

>

> ------

> *

March 19, 2004

Dear Swee

So where is the problem solved. Either it has to be navamsa lagna, or karakamsa?

Sanjayji has given elaborate examples to show saturn in navamsa lagna for a successful person. The first president of India, Dr.Prasad is Dhanus lagna, Virgo navamsa rising.(I am quoting from memory)

He has saturn in navamsa lagna, and ketu in fourth house. It was clearly given that he was very successful in whatever he took up. He had good mansions as ketu the griha karaka is exalted in fourth house. Saturn in navamsa lagna, made him what he was. There was no question of marana here.

Kindly pardon me for quoting from memory, i dont have patience to open celebrity charts, as i remember them mostly. If people want to cross check, they can and point out flaws in my interpretation.

best wishes

partha

Swee Chan <swee wrote:

Jaya JagannathaDear Partha,Since this didn't arrive at Varahamihira list, I am posting this off youto. love,Sweesweewww.brihaspati.net-----Original Message-----Swee Chan [swee] 18 March 2004 11:15'varahamihira 'RE: |Sri Varaha| Saturn in fifth(Re:-SJC HYDERABAD, 14th marchmeeting)Jaya JagannathaDear Chandrashekharji,I also tend to agree with you after having gone through so charts. IfPartha can look through again at the following:1.2.13 Uchhe (60/12=12) dharmanityata kaivalyamchaPisces Navamsa indicates a law abiding, religious and righteous personThe next 1.2.14 Tatra ravau rajakarya parahThe Sun in Swamsa makes the native a keen government/political workerand good at social

service.The word Tatra is what interests me: 26/12=2From the preceeding stanza, it talks about the 12th house, hence 2ndfrom the 12th is the Navamsa lagna/swamsaIn stanza 1.2.20 Prasiddha karmajeevassanauSanjayji translated: Saturn in Swamsa gives success in any line ofactivity and consequential fame.From the above I gather that he means Swamsa to be the karakamsa as itwould make sense to follow the line of thinking that Saturn in the 12th(house) would be good. If in the lagna, it would be in Marana.I checked this up on Prof. Sastri's Jaimini and it also has the samestanza, but he interpreted it as: if Saturn is to be the 2nd fromkarakamsa lagna, (hence extrapolated) could also mean the "lagnamsa"love,Sweesweewww.brihaspati.net-----Original Message-----Chandrashekhar [boxdel] 17 March 2004 23:28varahamihira Subject:

Re: |Sri Varaha| Saturn in fifth(Re:-SJC HYDERABAD, 14th marchmeeting)Dear Partha,I think Swamsha would mean Navamsha Rasi occupied by the planet. So 5th from swamsha would mean that the planet has to be 5th from the Rasi in Navamsha occupied by him to be seen in Natal Horoscope.Of course others might have different views.Chandrashekhar.partha sarathy wrote:> Dear Gurus,> > We had convened the SJC hyderabad Meeting on 14th March 2004. We were > doing a few charts, but as suggested by Guru Pt.Rath, we took up > Jaimini Sutras.> > We were stuck at a sutra which says that "SATURN ALONE IN FIFTH from > swamsa MAKES for AN archer"> While i have saturn in alone, and i am not an archer, while another > member of our group, has four planets including saturn in fifth from > swamsa, and he is one.> > 1. PARTHA> Natal Chart> December 15,

1976> Time: 8:27:00> Time Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT)> Longitude: 77 E 12' 00"> Latitude: 28 N 36' 00"> > *+--------------+> |Sun Moo |Ven |Mnd Glk |Ket AL |> |HL | | | |> | | | | |> | | | | |> | | | | |> |-----------+-----------------------+-----------|> |Mar | | |> | | | |> | | | |> | | | |> | | | |> |-----------| Navamsa |-----------|> |SatR | | |> | | | |> | | | |> | | | |> | | | |> |-----------+-----------------------+-----------|> |JupR Rah | | |Asc Mer |> | | | |GL |> | | | | |> | | | | |> | | | | |> +--------------+*>> *2. RISHI RAJ MANGLESH*> *Natal Chart*> *February 19, 1981> Time: 2:25:29> Time Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT)> Longitude: 76 E 40'

00"> Latitude: 32 N 02' 00"> Altitude: 0.00 meters*> ** > *+--------------+> | | |Moo JupR | |> | | |SatR Ket | |> | | |HL | |> | | | | |> | | | | |> |-----------+-----------------------+-----------|> |Mar GL | | |> |Mnd Glk | | |> | | | |> | | | |> | | | |> |-----------| Navamsa |-----------|> |Asc | |Ven |> | | | |> | | | |> | | | |> | | | |> |-----------+-----------------------+-----------|> | |Sun MerR | |AL |> | |Rah | | |> | | | | |> | | | | |> | | | | |> +--------------+> > *> *Kindly look into this Pt.Rath, or else we shall give up reading > Jaimini Sutras.and do something else.*> *best wishes*> *partha*> ** >> > * Mail* >

- More > reliable, more storage, less spam>> |Om Tat Sat|> http://www.varahamihira>>>------> *

March 20, 2004

::Om namo bhagavate vasudevaya::

Dear Ramdas raoji

Namaste.

One level is the abilities and the other is the desire for achievement. The Karakamsa is the native as viewed from the 'soul' . Here even malefic planets in trines tend to behave like benefics. For example if malefic planets are in trines to karakamsa the native knows mantra and shastra. Knowing mantra and shastra is a very good thing and shows that even these malefics are making him spiritual. After all it is the nature of the atma, the true spiritual being.

The Lagnamsa is the abilities that matter in the physical world. Now compare the two and find out what kind of a life awaits the person and how much of spirituality or self actualisation is awaiting him.

dear Partha,

Nice points again..this is for all Jyotisa from Hyd class etc.

In future do not jump into the navamsa without first studying the rasi chart, else even blind and lame people will seem like great sportsmen. In your chart where is the parakrama required to be an archer? Compare this to the chart of Rishi raj where the AL has warrior Mars with the Sun (light weapons like guns, bows i.e. can fire at objects at a long distance with the sharp sight of the sun). With this Rahu is in the 6th from AL will make him a good warrior.

So with this basic parameter look at the navamsa to check the level to which he will rise in these directions. There are four planets in the fifth house from the navamsa lagna...the dominant trine showing abilities. Moon can make him a singer and the Moon is exalted, Ketu can make him good in computers but it is debilitated, while Jupiter can make him very learned while saturn makes him a good archer or one following the tradition. There are so many things. Of these planets, Saturn is also the lord of the navamsa lagna (Svamsa) and 2nd house as well (indicating source of income). Given the high level of parakrama in the chart it is unlikely that such a saturn would make him a shastri and instead would make him an archer.

Now look at Mars in the second from Svamsa aspecting these four planets and saturn aspecting Mars in return. this Mars saturn exchange of glance is seen in the charts of boxers and those who battle...remember my story about the 'red' and 'blue' underwear that the boxers use.

So this shows good abilities as an archer. Now does this promise success? Is the atmakaraka involved? Can he make all thos esacrifices that are required to be an achiever? Well they are all in the sign of the AK and the AK is aspecting the lagnamsa. but AK is in the 8th house as well. Fortunately it is Venus in the 8th that also aspects a friendly lagna else it would have been disastrous for health.

Moon in the 7th from AL promises fame during the lifetime.

In this manner we see the lagnamsa giving the result. Now if we study the karakamsa, none of the planets are in trines to AK in Leo, so this fellow will not have any time for mantra shastra, so how can saturn make him a traditional shastri if he does not read the shastra!! The ninth lord from karakamsa is Mars and the dharma of yuddha will be learnt and adopted well for life. Worship of Narasimha or Hanumanji will bring him a lot of success.

....you can easily add the rest.

With best regards,

Sanjay Rath

Maling address: 212 Gopal Ballav Road, Puri 752001, India; Tel: 91.6752.226269; webpages: http://srath.com

--------------------------------

Ramadas Rao [ramadasrao] Wednesday, March 17, 2004 11:15 AMvarahamihira Subject: Re: |Sri Varaha| Saturn in fifth(Re:-SJC HYDERABAD, 14th march meeting)

` nmae naray[ay,

om namo näräyaëäya|Dear Partha,

Now I have some discrepency in the meaning of Swamsha.In JMUS by Sanjay Ji he has mentioned in 1.2.1 that Swamsha refers to Lagna Navamsha but again at the end of that para,he mentioned " Swa generally refers to Lagna and in broader sense ,includes Atma Karaka." That means he has given 2 contradictory meanings that Swamsha is either Lagnamsha or Karakamsha. Now which one we have to take into consideration ? But again Shri Sanjay Ji has mentioned in " Explanatory notes & Case studies " ,under the heading of "Swamsha ", ( Page 59 )that Swamsha has to be considered as Karakamsha and now I think we have to think that the word Swamsha means Karkamsha in Navamsha Chart.

Now Prof.P.S.Shastri Ji in his JMUS,he states Swamsha is Karakamsha and has given results as per AK's position in Navamsha.This has further made me confused.So now I wanted to clarify which one we have to take into consideration ? Either Swamsha is Lagnamsha or Karakamsha ?

Another Jyotish Scholar B.G.Acharya from Mangalore in his " Mandi and Upagrahas " book,he also mentions he results from Karakamsha and not from Lagnamsha.

So now TATRA SHANAU DHAANUSHKAH meaning has to be taken as Saturn alone in 5th house (From karakamsha )produces an Archer and in modern days this may include missiles,spears etc.

The same meaning is given by Prof.P.S.Shastri Ji also but he considers the results of Saturn alone in 2nd from Karakamsha makes one weild weapons of warefare.

Now Shri B.G.Acharya gives another Shloka " RAVAU KHADGADHARO JAATAH KUJE KUNTAAYUDHEE BHAVET.

SHANAU DHANURDHARO JNEYO RAAHAU CHA LOHAYANTRAVAAN." Meaning Sun in 5th from Karaksmha makes one ive by the sword or a soldier,Mars in 5th from Karakasmha makes one weild the spear,Shani in the same position makes one weild weapons of warfare,and Rahu in the same position makes one manufacturer of machines of iron and steel.

So now when I get the meanings like the above from different books,which one we have to consider correctly ?

I hope only Sanjay Ji can give the correct answers to these questions.

I hope this helps you.

With Shri Hari Vaayu Naama Smarana,

Ramadas Rao.

partha sarathy <partvinu5 wrote:

Dear Gurus,

We had convened the SJC hyderabad Meeting on 14th March 2004. We were doing a few charts, but as suggested by Guru Pt.Rath, we took up Jaimini Sutras.

We were stuck at a sutra which says that "SATURN ALONE IN FIFTH from swamsa MAKES for AN archer"

While i have saturn in alone, and i am not an archer, while another member of our group, has four planets including saturn in fifth from swamsa, and he is one.

1. PARTHA

Natal Chart

December 15, 1976Time: 8:27:00Time Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT)Longitude: 77 E 12' 00"Latitude: 28 N 36' 00"

+--------------+|Sun Moo |Ven |Mnd Glk |Ket AL ||HL | | | || | | | || | | | || | | | ||-----------+-----------------------+-----------||Mar | | || | | || | | || | | || | | ||-----------| Navamsa |-----------||SatR | | || | | || | | || | | || | | ||-----------+-----------------------+-----------||JupR Rah | | |Asc Mer || | | |GL || | | | || | | | || | | | |+--------------+

2. RISHI RAJ MANGLESH

Natal Chart

February 19, 1981Time: 2:25:29Time Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT)Longitude: 76 E 40' 00"Latitude: 32 N 02' 00"Altitude: 0.00 meters

+--------------+| | |Moo JupR | || | |SatR Ket | || | |HL | || | | | || | | | ||-----------+-----------------------+-----------||Mar GL | | ||Mnd Glk | | || | | || | | || | | ||-----------| Navamsa |-----------||Asc | |Ven || | | || | | || | | || | | ||-----------+-----------------------+-----------|| |Sun MerR | |AL || |Rah | | || | | | || | | | || | | | |+--------------+

Kindly look into this Pt.Rath, or else we shall give up reading Jaimini Sutras.and do something else.

best wishes

partha

Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam |Om Tat Sat|http://www.varahamihira

India Promos: Win a trip for 2 to Britain. |Om Tat Sat|http://www.varahamihira

March 21, 2004

` nmae naray[ay,

om namo näräyaëäya|Dear Sanjay Ji,

Namaste.

So that means it is clear from your words that we should judge the strength of Lagna Navamsha and Karakamsha and then interpret accordingly.Am I correct ?

Because in my chart for example,Lagnamsha is Vrishabha and Kuja and Ketu are psoited there and Karaksmahsa is Kanya with Chandra ( AK ) with Surya there.Now if we take Kuja in Swamsha or Lagnamsha,then the result is the native will be an expert in metallurgy or in arms and warfare or in matters related to fire.Here I am working in Petroleum Refinery where I am working with Machines and not connected with any metallurgy or arms manufacture etc. Also Ketu in Swamsha or Lagnamsha indicates that I may earn through elephants or may be a thief or a swindler and I am not.But as you said if I take these two planets ie., Kuja and Ketu in 9th from Karakamsha,the native is well versed in Mantras and Yantras which is correct.Now again Shani is in 2nd house from Navamsha Lagna and if we take the interpretation from Lagnamsha or Navamsha Lagna,then it indicates a man who is nervous in an assembly or gathering as this interpretation is for Shani in 1st or 5th from

Swamsha ( or Navamsha Lagna ) and the same interpretation holds good for Shani in 2nd vide Shloka No.1.2.116 stating these results can hold good from 2nd house also. But I found these statements are not hoding good for me. Now suppose if I take Shani in 10th from Karakamsha ie., Kanya Rasi.then as per Shloka 1.2.40 notes ,malefics in 10th indicate fluctuations of fortune.This statement holds good for me as during 1990-1992,my fortune has become almost zero and again from 1992,the fortunes started increasing indicating once in my life there was a fluctuation in my fortune.

So after comparing these results, I feel that we have to judge the strength of both Lagna Navamsha and Karakamsha to arrive at correct interpretation.

Please give your views regarding this.

With Shri Hari vaayu Naama Smarana,

Ramadas Rao.guruji wrote: