Saturn in fifth

March 17, 2004

sadgurudevaaye namah,

dear partha,

interesting!!

but rishi's chart seems to b questionable. plz ask him if he had consistent healh problems, as his navams algna is 6th from his ak. also, he should b a very good writer if this chart is correct. anyway, when we chck his profession , dispositor of 10 lord is venus , which is with ketu in 3rd house in rasichart, this may give him archery skills. ak & 10 lord from ak, both(venus itself) r in sun's navamsa.

trines from navams lagna impart skills, but may not necessarliy decide ur profession.

swamsa can be used for both-navamsa lagna & karakamsa. (that's was the impression i got) both can b used for appliction for these sutras. there is only one subtle diffrence. karakmsa shows what ur soul wants to achieve, & navamsa lagna shows what is already acquired.

in ur chart, saturn is alone in 5th in navamsa, this shows ur capabilities of being an archer. but ur 10 lord is in exalted navamsa in navamsa lagna. it has to take u to mercurian field.see, mercury is bhava vargottama., it is deeply connected to 1st bhava. u can better interpret this than me, as it being ur own case.

humble regards

prashant"V.Partha sarathy" <partvinu5 wrote:

Dear Ramdas JiThank you for the kind inputs.Rishi raj manglesh whose chart i had provided is a gold medalist in archery, whereas i am not even a tamra medalist. Let us see what Sanjayji says.best wishesparthavarahamihira , Ramadas Rao <ramadasrao> wrote:> > ` nmae naray[ay,> om namo näräyaëäya|> Dear Partha,> Now I have some discrepency in the meaning of Swamsha.In JMUS by Sanjay Ji he has mentioned in 1.2.1 that Swamsha refers to Lagna Navamsha but again at the end of that para,he mentioned " Swa generally refers to Lagna and in broader sense ,includes Atma Karaka." That means he has given 2 contradictory meanings that Swamsha is either Lagnamsha or Karakamsha. Now which one we have to take into consideration ? But again Shri Sanjay Ji has

mentioned in " Explanatory notes & Case studies " ,under the heading of "Swamsha ", ( Page 59 )that Swamsha has to be considered as Karakamsha and now I think we have to think that the word Swamsha means Karkamsha in Navamsha Chart.> Now Prof.P.S.Shastri Ji in his JMUS,he states Swamsha is Karakamsha and has given results as per AK's position in Navamsha.This has further made me confused.So now I wanted to clarify which one we have to take into consideration ? Either Swamsha is Lagnamsha or Karakamsha ?> Another Jyotish Scholar B.G.Acharya from Mangalore in his " Mandi and Upagrahas " book,he also mentions he results from Karakamsha and not from Lagnamsha.> So now TATRA SHANAU DHAANUSHKAH meaning has to be taken as Saturn alone in 5th house (From karakamsha )produces an Archer and in modern days this may include missiles,spears etc.> The same meaning is given by Prof.P.S.Shastri Ji also but

he considers the results of Saturn alone in 2nd from Karakamsha makes one weild weapons of warefare.> Now Shri B.G.Acharya gives another Shloka " RAVAU KHADGADHARO JAATAH KUJE KUNTAAYUDHEE BHAVET.> SHANAU DHANURDHARO JNEYO RAAHAU CHA LOHAYANTRAVAAN." Meaning Sun in 5th from Karaksmha makes one live by the sword or a soldier,Mars in 5th from Karakasmha makes one weild the spear,Shani in the same position makes one weild weapons of warfare,and Rahu in the same position makes one manufacturer of machines of iron and steel.> So now when I get the meanings like the above from different books,which one we have to consider correctly ?> I hope only Sanjay Ji can give the correct answers to these questions.> I hope this helps you.> With Shri Hari Vaayu Naama Smarana,> Ramadas Rao.> > > partha sarathy <partvinu5> wrote:> Dear Gurus,>

> We had convened the SJC hyderabad Meeting on 14th March 2004. We were doing a few charts, but as suggested by Guru Pt.Rath, we took up Jaimini Sutras.> > We were stuck at a sutra which says that "SATURN ALONE IN FIFTH from swamsa MAKES for AN archer"> While i have saturn in alone, and i am not an archer, while another member of our group, has four planets including saturn in fifth from swamsa, and he is one.> > 1. PARTHA> Natal Chart> December 15, 1976> Time: 8:27:00> Time Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT)> Longitude: 77 E 12' 00"> Latitude: 28 N 36' 00"> > +--------------+> |Sun Moo |Ven

|Mnd Glk |Ket AL |> |HL | | | |> | | | | |> | | | | |> | |

| | |> |-----------+-----------------------+-----------|> |Mar | | |> | | | |> | | | |>

| | | |> | | | |> |-----------| Navamsa |-----------|> |SatR | | |> |

| | |> | | | |> | | | |> | |

| |> |-----------+-----------------------+-----------|> |JupR Rah | | |Asc Mer |> | | | |GL |> | | | | |> | |

| | |> | | | | |> +--------------+> > > 2. RISHI RAJ MANGLESH> Natal Chart> February 19, 1981> Time: 2:25:29> Time Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT)> Longitude: 76 E 40' 00"> Latitude: 32 N 02' 00"> Altitude: 0.00 meters> > +--------------+>

| | |Moo JupR | |> | | |SatR Ket | |> | | |HL | |> | | | | |>

| | | | |> |-----------+-----------------------+-----------|> |Mar GL | | |> |Mnd Glk | | |> | |

| |> | | | |> | | | |> |-----------| Navamsa |-----------|> |Asc | |Ven |>

| | | |> | | | |> | | | |> |

| | |> |-----------+-----------------------+-----------|> | |Sun MerR | |AL |> | |Rah | | |> | | | | |>

| | | | |> | | | | |> +--------------+> > > Kindly look into this Pt.Rath, or else we shall give up reading Jaimini Sutras.and do something else.> best wishes> partha> > > > Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam > > |Om Tat Sat|> http://www.varahamihira

> > > > >

March 17, 2004

Dear Prashant

The question is of ability and not exactly profession. Rishi is not a

professional archer, he is very healthy, and is now currently

pursuing MCA, so there is no question of profession. In india

sportsmen are not " professionals " , they get jobs on the basis of some

state or national level certificates etc. Very few become

professional players.

And then saturn in fifth also makes a person nervous in " assembly "

according to jaimini.

This is another sutra where i am confused. I am very bold on stage,

winner of many prizes, but yes, i am shy in public, i dont speak to

people in public.

SO the sutras are ambigious, and we are really confused.

The first question is to whether Swamsa is navamsa lagna, or

karakamsa, or Rasi lagna in navamsa chart etc.

And secondly i very well know that Trines to Ak show ability from

soul perspective, and Trines to Navamsa lagna show ability that come

easily which you had pointed out.

Best wishes

partha

varahamihira , prashant narang

<prashantnarang> wrote:

> sadgurudevaaye namah,

>

> dear partha,

> interesting!!

> but rishi's chart seems to b questionable. plz ask him if he had

consistent healh problems, as his navams algna is 6th from his ak.

also, he should b a very good writer if this chart is correct.

anyway, when we chck his profession , dispositor of 10 lord is

venus , which is with ketu in 3rd house in rasichart, this may give

him archery skills. ak & 10 lord from ak, both(venus itself) r in

sun's navamsa.

> trines from navams lagna impart skills, but may not necessarliy

decide ur profession.

> swamsa can be used for both-navamsa lagna & karakamsa. (that's was

the impression i got) both can b used for appliction for these

sutras. there is only one subtle diffrence. karakmsa shows what ur

soul wants to achieve, & navamsa lagna shows what is already

acquired.

> in ur chart, saturn is alone in 5th in navamsa, this shows ur

capabilities of being an archer. but ur 10 lord is in exalted navamsa

in navamsa lagna. it has to take u to mercurian field.see, mercury is

bhava vargottama., it is deeply connected to 1st bhava. u can better

interpret this than me, as it being ur own case.

>

> humble regards

> prashant

>

> " V.Partha sarathy " <partvinu5> wrote:

> Dear Ramdas Ji

>

> Thank you for the kind inputs.

>

> Rishi raj manglesh whose chart i had provided is a gold medalist in

> archery, whereas i am not even a tamra medalist. Let us see what

> Sanjayji says.

> best wishes

> partha

>

> varahamihira , Ramadas Rao <ramadasrao>

> wrote:

> >

> > ` nmae naray[ay,

> > om namo näräyaëäya|

> > Dear Partha,

> > Now I have some discrepency in the meaning of Swamsha.In JMUS by

> Sanjay Ji he has mentioned in 1.2.1 that Swamsha refers to Lagna

> Navamsha but again at the end of that para,he mentioned " Swa

> generally refers to Lagna and in broader sense ,includes Atma

> Karaka. " That means he has given 2 contradictory meanings that

> Swamsha is either Lagnamsha or Karakamsha. Now which one we have to

> take into consideration ? But again Shri Sanjay Ji has mentioned

in "

> Explanatory notes & Case studies " ,under the heading

of " Swamsha " ,

> ( Page 59 )that Swamsha has to be considered as Karakamsha and now

I

> think we have to think that the word Swamsha means Karkamsha in

> Navamsha Chart.

> > Now Prof.P.S.Shastri Ji in his JMUS,he states Swamsha is

Karakamsha

> and has given results as per AK's position in Navamsha.This has

> further made me confused.So now I wanted to clarify which one we

have

> to take into consideration ? Either Swamsha is Lagnamsha or

> Karakamsha ?

> > Another Jyotish Scholar B.G.Acharya from Mangalore in his " Mandi

> and Upagrahas " book,he also mentions he results from Karakamsha

and

> not from Lagnamsha.

> > So now TATRA SHANAU DHAANUSHKAH meaning has to be taken as

Saturn

> alone in 5th house (From karakamsha )produces an Archer and in

> modern days this may include missiles,spears etc.

> > The same meaning is given by Prof.P.S.Shastri Ji also but he

> considers the results of Saturn alone in 2nd from Karakamsha makes

> one weild weapons of warefare.

> > Now Shri B.G.Acharya gives another Shloka " RAVAU KHADGADHARO

> JAATAH KUJE KUNTAAYUDHEE BHAVET.

> > SHANAU DHANURDHARO JNEYO RAAHAU CHA LOHAYANTRAVAAN. " Meaning Sun

in

> 5th from Karaksmha makes one live by the sword or a soldier,Mars

in

> 5th from Karakasmha makes one weild the spear,Shani in the same

> position makes one weild weapons of warfare,and Rahu in the same

> position makes one manufacturer of machines of iron and steel.

> > So now when I get the meanings like the above from different

> books,which one we have to consider correctly ?

> > I hope only Sanjay Ji can give the correct answers to these

> questions.

> > I hope this helps you.

> > With Shri Hari Vaayu Naama Smarana,

> > Ramadas Rao.

> >

> > partha sarathy <partvinu5> wrote:

> > Dear Gurus,

> >

> > We had convened the SJC hyderabad Meeting on 14th March 2004. We

> were doing a few charts, but as suggested by Guru Pt.Rath, we took

up

> Jaimini Sutras.

> >

> > We were stuck at a sutra which says that " SATURN ALONE IN FIFTH

> from swamsa MAKES for AN archer "

> > While i have saturn in alone, and i am not an archer, while

another

> member of our group, has four planets including saturn in fifth

from

> swamsa, and he is one.

> >

> > 1. PARTHA

> > Natal Chart

> > December 15, 1976

> > Time: 8:27:00

> > Time Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT)

> > Longitude: 77 E 12' 00 "

> > Latitude: 28 N 36' 00 "

> >

> > +--------------+

> > |HL | | | |

> > | | | | |

> > |-----------+-----------------------+-----------|

> > |Mar | | |

> > | | | |

> > |-----------| Navamsa |-----------|

> > |SatR | | |

> > | | | |

> > |-----------+-----------------------+-----------|

> > | | | |GL |

> > | | | | |

> > +--------------+

> >

> > 2. RISHI RAJ MANGLESH

> > Natal Chart

> > February 19, 1981

> > Time: 2:25:29

> > Time Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT)

> > Longitude: 76 E 40' 00 "

> > Latitude: 32 N 02' 00 "

> > Altitude: 0.00 meters

> >

> > +--------------+

> > | | |Moo JupR | |

> > | | |SatR Ket | |

> > | | |HL | |

> > | | | | |

> > |-----------+-----------------------+-----------|

> > |Mar GL | | |

> > |Mnd Glk | | |

> > | | | |

> > |-----------| Navamsa |-----------|

> > |Asc | |Ven |

> > | | | |

> > |-----------+-----------------------+-----------|

> > | |Sun MerR | |AL |

> > | |Rah | | |

> > | | | | |

> > +--------------+

> >

> > Kindly look into this Pt.Rath, or else we shall give up reading

> Jaimini Sutras.and do something else.

> > best wishes

> > partha

> >

> > Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam

> >

> > |Om Tat Sat|

> > http://www.varahamihira

> >

March 17, 2004

|| Om Gurave Namah :: Om Namo Naaraayanaaya ||

Dear Prashant & list,

If I may add to what Partha has mentioned - it is not the question about the charts of Rishi & Partha.

The question is the RATIONALE & APPLICATION of Jaimini Sutras.

In SJC-Hyd-bad, we started studying JUPS sutra-by-sutra, and tried to understand the jyotish principles behind the Jaimini's dictums.

Like Saturn in 5th, there were many other sutras which could not be explained by us - using our limited knowledge.

That is why Partha has posted the querry to this list - if we can get an explanation, then we can continue with our study of Jaimini, else we will have to stop tha same as is - since there is no point in discussing something without being able to explain the principles involved.

Sorry for the longish mail - I was virtually thinking aloud.

With best wieshes and regards,

Shailesh

scchadha; scc

-

"V.Partha sarathy" <partvinu5

Wednesday, March 17, 2004 5:04 PM

Re: |Sri Varaha| Saturn in fifth

Dear PrashantThe question is of ability and not exactly profession. Rishi is not a professional archer, he is very healthy, and is now currently pursuing MCA, so there is no question of profession. In india sportsmen are not "professionals", they get jobs on the basis of some state or national level certificates etc. Very few become professional players.And then saturn in fifth also makes a person nervous in "assembly" according to jaimini.This is another sutra where i am confused. I am very bold on stage, winner of many prizes, but yes, i am shy in public, i dont speak to people in public.SO the sutras are ambigious, and we are really confused. The first question is to whether Swamsa is navamsa lagna, or karakamsa, or Rasi lagna in navamsa chart etc.And secondly i very well know that Trines to Ak show ability from soul perspective, and Trines to Navamsa lagna show ability that come easily which you had pointed out.Best wishesparthavarahamihira , prashant narang <prashantnarang> wrote:> sadgurudevaaye namah,> > dear partha,> interesting!!> but rishi's chart seems to b questionable. plz ask him if he had consistent healh problems, as his navams algna is 6th from his ak. also, he should b a very good writer if this chart is correct. anyway, when we chck his profession , dispositor of 10 lord is venus , which is with ketu in 3rd house in rasichart, this may give him archery skills. ak & 10 lord from ak, both(venus itself) r in sun's navamsa.> trines from navams lagna impart skills, but may not necessarliy decide ur profession.> swamsa can be used for both-navamsa lagna & karakamsa. (that's was the impression i got) both can b used for appliction for these sutras. there is only one subtle diffrence. karakmsa shows what ur soul wants to achieve, & navamsa lagna shows what is already acquired. > in ur chart, saturn is alone in 5th in navamsa, this shows ur capabilities of being an archer. but ur 10 lord is in exalted navamsa in navamsa lagna. it has to take u to mercurian field.see, mercury is bhava vargottama., it is deeply connected to 1st bhava. u can better interpret this than me, as it being ur own case.> > humble regards> prashant> > "V.Partha sarathy" <partvinu5> wrote:> Dear Ramdas Ji> > Thank you for the kind inputs.> > Rishi raj manglesh whose chart i had provided is a gold medalist in > archery, whereas i am not even a tamra medalist. Let us see what > Sanjayji says.> best wishes> partha> > > varahamihira , Ramadas Rao <ramadasrao> > wrote:> > > > ` nmae naray[ay,> > om namo näräyaëäya|> > Dear Partha,> > Now I have some discrepency in the meaning of Swamsha.In JMUS by > Sanjay Ji he has mentioned in 1.2.1 that Swamsha refers to Lagna > Navamsha but again at the end of that para,he mentioned " Swa > generally refers to Lagna and in broader sense ,includes Atma > Karaka." That means he has given 2 contradictory meanings that > Swamsha is either Lagnamsha or Karakamsha. Now which one we have to > take into consideration ? But again Shri Sanjay Ji has mentioned in " > Explanatory notes & Case studies " ,under the heading of "Swamsha ", > ( Page 59 )that Swamsha has to be considered as Karakamsha and now I > think we have to think that the word Swamsha means Karkamsha in > Navamsha Chart.> > Now Prof.P.S.Shastri Ji in his JMUS,he states Swamsha is Karakamsha > and has given results as per AK's position in Navamsha.This has > further made me confused.So now I wanted to clarify which one we have > to take into consideration ? Either Swamsha is Lagnamsha or > Karakamsha ?> > Another Jyotish Scholar B.G.Acharya from Mangalore in his " Mandi > and Upagrahas " book,he also mentions he results from Karakamsha and > not from Lagnamsha.> > So now TATRA SHANAU DHAANUSHKAH meaning has to be taken as Saturn > alone in 5th house (From karakamsha )produces an Archer and in > modern days this may include missiles,spears etc.> > The same meaning is given by Prof.P.S.Shastri Ji also but he > considers the results of Saturn alone in 2nd from Karakamsha makes > one weild weapons of warefare.> > Now Shri B.G.Acharya gives another Shloka " RAVAU KHADGADHARO > JAATAH KUJE KUNTAAYUDHEE BHAVET.> > SHANAU DHANURDHARO JNEYO RAAHAU CHA LOHAYANTRAVAAN." Meaning Sun in > 5th from Karaksmha makes one live by the sword or a soldier,Mars in > 5th from Karakasmha makes one weild the spear,Shani in the same > position makes one weild weapons of warfare,and Rahu in the same > position makes one manufacturer of machines of iron and steel.> > So now when I get the meanings like the above from different > books,which one we have to consider correctly ?> > I hope only Sanjay Ji can give the correct answers to these > questions.> > I hope this helps you.> > With Shri Hari Vaayu Naama Smarana,> > Ramadas Rao.> > > > > > partha sarathy <partvinu5> wrote:> > Dear Gurus,> > > > We had convened the SJC hyderabad Meeting on 14th March 2004. We > were doing a few charts, but as suggested by Guru Pt.Rath, we took up > Jaimini Sutras.> > > > We were stuck at a sutra which says that "SATURN ALONE IN FIFTH > from swamsa MAKES for AN archer"> > While i have saturn in alone, and i am not an archer, while another > member of our group, has four planets including saturn in fifth from > swamsa, and he is one.> > > > 1. PARTHA> > Natal Chart> > December 15, 1976> > Time: 8:27:00> > Time Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT)> > Longitude: 77 E 12' 00"> > Latitude: 28 N 36' 00"> > > > +--------------+> > |Sun Moo |Ven |Mnd Glk |Ket AL |> > |HL | | | |> > | | | | |> > | | | | |> > | | | | |> > |-----------+-----------------------+-----------|> > |Mar | | |> > | | | |> > | | | |> > | | | |> > | | | |> > |-----------| Navamsa |-----------|> > |SatR | | |> > | | | |> > | | | |> > | | | |> > | | | |> > |-----------+-----------------------+-----------|> > |JupR Rah | | |Asc Mer |> > | | | |GL |> > | | | | |> > | | | | |> > | | | | |> > +--------------+> > > > > > 2. RISHI RAJ MANGLESH> > Natal Chart> > February 19, 1981> > Time: 2:25:29> > Time Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT)> > Longitude: 76 E 40' 00"> > Latitude: 32 N 02' 00"> > Altitude: 0.00 meters> > > > +--------------+> > | | |Moo JupR | |> > | | |SatR Ket | |> > | | |HL | |> > | | | | |> > | | | | |> > |-----------+-----------------------+-----------|> > |Mar GL | | |> > |Mnd Glk | | |> > | | | |> > | | | |> > | | | |> > |-----------| Navamsa |-----------|> > |Asc | |Ven |> > | | | |> > | | | |> > | | | |> > | | | |> > |-----------+-----------------------+-----------|> > | |Sun MerR | |AL |> > | |Rah | | |> > | | | | |> > | | | | |> > | | | | |> > +--------------+> > > > > > Kindly look into this Pt.Rath, or else we shall give up reading > Jaimini Sutras.and do something else.> > best wishes> > partha> > > > > > > > Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam > > > > |Om Tat Sat|> > http://www.varahamihira > > > > > > > > > >

March 17, 2004

sadgurudevaaye namah,

dear partha,

so i feel u check his chart with other techniques too & do the

rectification. may b then u'll get better resluts. since he is '81

born, so, we cannot verify his profession. as far his hobby is

concerned the reality can come into picture only after the

rectification. probably mars aspected by saturn in navams algna can

justify his archery.

do share ur outcome with us, it will help us to learn more abt

jaimini sutras.

humble regards

prashant

varahamihira , " V.Partha sarathy "

<partvinu5> wrote:

> Dear Prashant

>

> The question is of ability and not exactly profession. Rishi is

not a

> professional archer, he is very healthy, and is now currently

> pursuing MCA, so there is no question of profession. In india

> sportsmen are not " professionals " , they get jobs on the basis of

some

> state or national level certificates etc. Very few become

> professional players.

> And then saturn in fifth also makes a person nervous in " assembly "

> according to jaimini.

> This is another sutra where i am confused. I am very bold on

stage,

> winner of many prizes, but yes, i am shy in public, i dont speak

to

> people in public.

> SO the sutras are ambigious, and we are really confused.

> The first question is to whether Swamsa is navamsa lagna, or

> karakamsa, or Rasi lagna in navamsa chart etc.

> And secondly i very well know that Trines to Ak show ability from

> soul perspective, and Trines to Navamsa lagna show ability that

come

> easily which you had pointed out.

> Best wishes

> partha

>

> varahamihira , prashant narang

> <prashantnarang> wrote:

> > sadgurudevaaye namah,

> >

> > dear partha,

> > interesting!!

> > but rishi's chart seems to b questionable. plz ask him if he had

> consistent healh problems, as his navams algna is 6th from his ak.

> also, he should b a very good writer if this chart is correct.

> anyway, when we chck his profession , dispositor of 10 lord is

> venus , which is with ketu in 3rd house in rasichart, this may

give

> him archery skills. ak & 10 lord from ak, both(venus itself) r in

> sun's navamsa.

> > trines from navams lagna impart skills, but may not necessarliy

> decide ur profession.

> > swamsa can be used for both-navamsa lagna & karakamsa. (that's

was

> the impression i got) both can b used for appliction for these

> sutras. there is only one subtle diffrence. karakmsa shows what ur

> soul wants to achieve, & navamsa lagna shows what is already

> acquired.

> > in ur chart, saturn is alone in 5th in navamsa, this shows ur

> capabilities of being an archer. but ur 10 lord is in exalted

navamsa

> in navamsa lagna. it has to take u to mercurian field.see, mercury

is

> bhava vargottama., it is deeply connected to 1st bhava. u can

better

> interpret this than me, as it being ur own case.

> >

> > humble regards

> > prashant

> >

> > " V.Partha sarathy " <partvinu5> wrote:

> > Dear Ramdas Ji

> >

> > Thank you for the kind inputs.

> >

> > Rishi raj manglesh whose chart i had provided is a gold medalist

in

> > archery, whereas i am not even a tamra medalist. Let us see what

> > Sanjayji says.

> > best wishes

> > partha

> >

> > varahamihira , Ramadas Rao

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > ` nmae naray[ay,

> > > om namo näräyaëäya|

> > > Dear Partha,

> > > Now I have some discrepency in the meaning of Swamsha.In JMUS

by

> > Sanjay Ji he has mentioned in 1.2.1 that Swamsha refers to Lagna

> > Navamsha but again at the end of that para,he mentioned " Swa

> > generally refers to Lagna and in broader sense ,includes Atma

> > Karaka. " That means he has given 2 contradictory meanings that

> > Swamsha is either Lagnamsha or Karakamsha. Now which one we have

to

> > take into consideration ? But again Shri Sanjay Ji has mentioned

> in "

> > Explanatory notes & Case studies " ,under the heading

> of " Swamsha " ,

> > ( Page 59 )that Swamsha has to be considered as Karakamsha and

now

> I

> > think we have to think that the word Swamsha means Karkamsha in

> > Navamsha Chart.

> > > Now Prof.P.S.Shastri Ji in his JMUS,he states Swamsha is

> Karakamsha

> > and has given results as per AK's position in Navamsha.This has

> > further made me confused.So now I wanted to clarify which one we

> have

> > to take into consideration ? Either Swamsha is Lagnamsha or

> > Karakamsha ?

> > > Another Jyotish Scholar B.G.Acharya from Mangalore in his "

Mandi

> > and Upagrahas " book,he also mentions he results from Karakamsha

> and

> > not from Lagnamsha.

> > > So now TATRA SHANAU DHAANUSHKAH meaning has to be taken as

> Saturn

> > alone in 5th house (From karakamsha )produces an Archer and in

> > modern days this may include missiles,spears etc.

> > > The same meaning is given by Prof.P.S.Shastri Ji also but he

> > considers the results of Saturn alone in 2nd from Karakamsha

makes

> > one weild weapons of warefare.

> > > Now Shri B.G.Acharya gives another Shloka " RAVAU KHADGADHARO

> > JAATAH KUJE KUNTAAYUDHEE BHAVET.

> > > SHANAU DHANURDHARO JNEYO RAAHAU CHA LOHAYANTRAVAAN. " Meaning

Sun

> in

> > 5th from Karaksmha makes one live by the sword or a

soldier,Mars

> in

> > 5th from Karakasmha makes one weild the spear,Shani in the same

> > position makes one weild weapons of warfare,and Rahu in the same

> > position makes one manufacturer of machines of iron and steel.

> > > So now when I get the meanings like the above from different

> > books,which one we have to consider correctly ?

> > > I hope only Sanjay Ji can give the correct answers to these

> > questions.

> > > I hope this helps you.

> > > With Shri Hari Vaayu Naama Smarana,

> > > Ramadas Rao.

> > >

> > > partha sarathy <partvinu5> wrote:

> > > Dear Gurus,

> > >

> > > We had convened the SJC hyderabad Meeting on 14th March 2004.

We

> > were doing a few charts, but as suggested by Guru Pt.Rath, we

took

> up

> > Jaimini Sutras.

> > >

> > > We were stuck at a sutra which says that " SATURN ALONE IN

FIFTH

> > from swamsa MAKES for AN archer "

> > > While i have saturn in alone, and i am not an archer, while

> another

> > member of our group, has four planets including saturn in fifth

> from

> > swamsa, and he is one.

> > >

> > > 1. PARTHA

> > > Natal Chart

> > > December 15, 1976

> > > Time: 8:27:00

> > > Time Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT)

> > > Longitude: 77 E 12' 00 "

> > > Latitude: 28 N 36' 00 "

> > >

> > > +--------------+

> > > |HL | | | |

> > > | | | | |

> > > |-----------+-----------------------+-----------|

> > > |Mar | | |

> > > | | | |

> > > |-----------| Navamsa |-----------|

> > > |SatR | | |

> > > | | | |

> > > |-----------+-----------------------+-----------|

> > > | | | |GL |

> > > | | | | |

> > > +--------------+

> > >

> > > 2. RISHI RAJ MANGLESH

> > > Natal Chart

> > > February 19, 1981

> > > Time: 2:25:29

> > > Time Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT)

> > > Longitude: 76 E 40' 00 "

> > > Latitude: 32 N 02' 00 "

> > > Altitude: 0.00 meters

> > >

> > > +--------------+

> > > | | |Moo JupR | |

> > > | | |SatR Ket | |

> > > | | |HL | |

> > > | | | | |

> > > |-----------+-----------------------+-----------|

> > > |Mar GL | | |

> > > |Mnd Glk | | |

> > > | | | |

> > > |-----------| Navamsa |-----------|

> > > |Asc | |Ven |

> > > | | | |

> > > |-----------+-----------------------+-----------|

> > > | |Sun MerR | |AL |

> > > | |Rah | | |

> > > | | | | |

> > > +--------------+

> > >

> > > Kindly look into this Pt.Rath, or else we shall give up

reading

> > Jaimini Sutras.and do something else.

> > > best wishes

> > > partha

> > >

> > > Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam

> > >

> > > |Om Tat Sat|

> > > http://www.varahamihira

> > >

March 17, 2004

HARE RAMA KRISHNA

Dear Shailesh,Partha and Ramadasji,

When ever we speack "AMSA Lagna, it can indicate not only Navamsa or Karakamsa, but any Amsa. For example, Ketwamsa Guramsa, Dasamsa etc.

Secondly, We have to look at the Yoga in another angle. For example, when Saturn in the 5th, it is fifth sign from lagna and Lagna is in 9th from 5th. Karaka for both houses (5,9) is Jupiter, who owns DHANU ! (While Saturn is the karaka for 10 th house) So, you may have to see the placement of Jupiter too. The secret is hidden within the sloka and it was only SJC opened the secret to us.

Long time back, I had same question and please read below for more details. Here Sanjay explains very clearly and hope this will help you.

Regards

Karu

Please Read on

.............................

OM VISHNAVE NAMAH

Dear Karu,

Comments are under:

-

Karu <heen

Tuesday, April 25, 2000 10:16 AM

[Jagannath] Re: [gjlist] Marriage

> > > This principle can also be extended to the Navamsa in a chart.> This is a part of Brighu's & Jaimini teachings. For example if a> planet is in a sign (A), then any other planet placed in Navamsa (A)> or transiting Navamsa (A) shall be influenced by it. Let us say Ketu> is in Pisces, then the transit of the Sun (in any sign) in the> navamsa of Ketu can cause conception and pregnancy can result. The> technical term used in this case for Pisces navamsa is KETVAMSA. In> this manner, the sign occupied by Jupiter in Rasi chart is called> Guramsa in the Navamsa or the sign occupied by Lagna in Rasi chart is> called Lagnamsa in the Navamsa.> > > Jaya Jaya Jagannatha,> Namasthe Gurudeve Sanjay,> > To make sure it is clear to me I am forwarding my question about this.> > Your Jupiter is in Pisces in Rasi chart. Pisces is 5th from 9D and it is> the Guramsa. Moon is in your Guramsa. So Jupiter will be influenced by Moon> in Moon's periods or Mondays.

RATH: THAT IS CORRECT. IN FACT THERE IS A SOOKSHMA PARIVARTANA BETWEEN THE MOON AND GURU AS GURU IS IN THE NAVAMSA OF THE SIGN OCCUPIED BY THE MOON AND THE MOON IS IN A NAVAMSA OF THE SIGN OCCUPIED BY GURU. THIS MAKES ME LOOK AT THE MOON AS MY GURU I.E. SRI KRISHNA BECOMES JAGANNATH IN MY CHART.

> > Same way sign occupied by Lagna in rasi chart, ( called Lagna or Ascendent> sign) in the 9D is "Lagnamsa."> > Your Lagna is Pisces and in the 5th from 9D. So Lagnamsa is Pisces with Moon> in it.> > If I am correct, why you said that Scorpio is your Lagnamsa in page 59> Upadesa Suthra ? I think Scorpio is your Swamsa, not Lagnamsa. I had this> question from long time unanswered, this is the time to understand it.

RATH: AMSALAGNA AND LAGNAMSA ARE QUITE INTERCHANGABLE AND ONE HAS TO BE CAREFUL IN READING. THIS IS THE MISTAKE KN RAO MADE IN THE INTERPRETATION OF THE WORD KARAKAMSA WHERE HE FEELS THAT THIS IS THE RASI SIGN OCCUPIED BY THE AK IN THE NAVAMSA. LAGNAMSA IS THE NAVAMSA OF LAGNA AND KARAKAMSA IS THE NAVAMSA OF ATMAKARAKA. IN FACT THE EXACT TERM SHOULD BE ATMAKARAKAMSA TO DIFFERENTIATE IT FROM THE OTHER KARAKA. VERY OFTEN YOU FIND THE WORD "AMSA" BEING USED AND ONE HAS TO BE VERY CAREFUL AS THIS IS GENERALLY NAVAMSA, BUT COULD BE DIFFERENT IN A SPECIFIC CONTEXT. I TRIED TO FINALISE A TERMINOLOGY BUT THE DIFFERENT WAYS OF USING SANSKRIT WORDS MAKES IT VERY DIFFICULT.> > Could you please rectify me when you are OK ?> > Hare Krishna.> Your Sishya> > Karu

yOU ARE A VERY SINCERE AND HARDWORKING INDIVIDUAL AND THIS WILL SURELY LEAD TO PERFECTION.

Best WishesSanjay Rath

Dear Karu,

Clarifications below:

-

Karu <heen

Friday, April 28, 2000 4:48 AM

Re: [Jagannath] Re: [gjlist] Marriage

Jaya Jaya Jaganatha,Dear Gurudeva Sanjay,Now I have more trouble regarding Karakamsa/ lagnamsa.According to Sri KN Rao the karakamsa is* Rasi sign occupied by the AK in the Nawamsa chart.*IN YOUR CASE SATURN IS THE AK AND SATURN IN THE VIRGO IN 9D. SO YOUR'S KARAKAMSA MUST BE VIRGO.

RATH: OK ACCORDING TO THE PARAMPARA IT IS VIRGO IN THE NAVAMSA, BUT ACCORDING TO THE NEW RESEARCH OF KN RAO IT IS VIRGO IN THE RASI CHART.LAGNAMSA IS NAVAMSA OF LAGNA. SO LAGNAMSA = NAVAMSA IN YOUR'S, LAGNAMSA AND NAVAMSA IS SCORPIO. THEN WHAT WILL BE THE LAGNA SIGN IN THE 9D ?

RATH: THAT IS WHERE I TRIED TO INTRODUCE A NEW TERM CALLED AMSA-LAGNA TO DIFFERENTIATE IT FROM LAGNAMSA. HOWEVER, TECHNICALLY, LAGNAMSA SIMPLY MEANS LAGNA + AMSA AND THIS CAN MEAN BOTH NAVAMSA LAGNA I.E. SCORPIO AS WELL AS THE NAVAMSA SIGN PISCES WHICH HAPPENS TO BE THE LAGNA IN THE RASI CHART. USAGE IS VITAL AND THAT IS WHY I TRIED TO COIN A NEW TERM FOR THIS PURPOSE ELSE WHEN WE STUDY BRIGHU EVERYTHING WILL GO HAYWARE.YOUR KETH-AMSA IS 2ND OF THE 9D.( SAG)

RATH: KETHVAMSA MEANS THE NAVAMSA OF KETU. HOWEVER IF THE SLOKA SAYS SUN TRANSITS KETVAMSA, THEN THE REFERENCE IS TO THE TRANSIT OF THE SUN IN THE NAVAMSA OF THE RASI SIGN OCCUPIED BY KETU. HERE KETU IS IN SAGITTARIUS AND NAVAMSA CHART IS NOT USED. IN GOCHAR THE SUN WILL TRANSIT SAY ARIES 29 DEG. THEN THE SUN WILL BE, IN TRANSIT IN ARIES RASI SAGITTARIUS NAVAMSA. THEN IT IS SAID TO TRANSIT KETVAMSA.THIS IS THE WAY BRIGHU HAS USED THE TERMS AND SO HAS JAIMINI.

THUS, KETVAMSA CAN REFER TO

1. THE NAVAMSA SIGN OCCUPIED BY KETU

2. THE SIGN IN THE NAVAMSA CHART OCCUPIED BY KETU IN THE RASI CHART.

WHERE KN RAO HAS GONE WRONG IS THE DIFFERENT WORD "AMSA-KA". LIKE LAGNAMSAKA. FOR EXAMPLE, MY HOROSCOPE LAGNA IS PISCES AND NAVAMSA LAGNA IS SCORPIO. THEN THE SIGN SCORPIO IN THE RASI CHART IS LAGNAMSAKA. THIS IS USED IN LAGNAMSAKA DASA...LET THIS BE (NO QUESTIONS ON THIS DASA PLEASE).

NOW SEE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN KN RAO & ME: FOR HIM THE "KARAKAMSAKA" IS KARAKAMSA, WHICH IS WRONG.

Best WishesSanjay Rath

YOUR GURAMSA IS 5TH OF THE 9D (PISC)YOUR SURYAMSA IS 9TH OF THE 9D (CAN)YOUR (LAGNAMSA) IS 5TH FROM 9D (PISC) ???You say,*LAGNAMSA IS THE NAVAMSA OF LAGNA* AND *KARAKAMSA IS THE NAVAMSA OF ATMAKARAKA.*If Karakamsa is the navamsa of AK, it is still Virgo isn't ?Could you write in this regard, a detail letter ? Can any one who properly understand this help me to clear this ? Hare Krishna,Your SishyaKaru RATH: AMSALAGNA AND LAGNAMSA ARE QUITE INTERCHANGABLE AND ONE HAS TO BE CAREFUL IN READING. THIS IS THE MISTAKE KN RAO MADE IN THE INTERPRETATION OF THE WORD KARAKAMSA WHERE HE FEELS THAT THIS IS THE RASI SIGN OCCUPIED BY THE AK IN THE NAVAMSA. LAGNAMSA IS THE NAVAMSA OF LAGNA AND KARAKAMSA IS THE NAVAMSA OF ATMAKARAKA. IN FACT THE EXACT TERM SHOULD BE ATMAKARAKAMSA TO DIFFERENTIATE IT FROM THE OTHER KARAKA. VERY OFTEN YOU FIND THE WORD "AMSA" BEING USED AND ONE HAS TO BE VERY CAREFUL AS THIS IS GENERALLY NAVAMSA, BUT COULD BE DIFFERENT IN A SPECIFIC CONTEXT. I TRIED TO FINALISE A TERMINOLOGY BUT THE DIFFERENT WAYS OF USING SANSKRIT WORDS MAKES IT VERY DIFFICULT.

March 18, 2004

` nmae naray[ay,

om namo näräyaëäya|Dear Karu,

Thanks for the informations sharing with us.I understand between Lagnamsha and Karakamsha.Now the question is about SWamsha.Because Sri Sanjay Ji has written notes in his translations on Jaimini Sutras,stating Swamsha is generally Navamsha of Lagna but in broader sense it can be considered as Karakamsha.

Now if you go through Shri C.S.Patel's book on " Predicting through Navamsha and Nadi Astrology " ,he quotes verses from Dhruva Nadi and gives very good interpretations about the sign occupied by the planet in Navamsha and how to interpret them in Rasi Chart.Now for example if Lagna is Meena and Navamsha is Vrischika,then Vrischika in Rasi chart becomes Bhagyamsa.Now Chandra who is in 12th in Rashi chart if comes to Meena in Navamsha,then Chandra is called as Lagnamsa,Guru who is in Lagna when comes to Kumbha in Navamsha is called as Vyayaamsa or Mokshamsa in Rasi chart and so on.Now as you interpreted Shri Sanjay Ji's chart,there is an exchange of planets in Navamsha for both Chandra and Guru.The planet Guru who is the owner of Meena Rasi and lord of Lagna in the Navamsha has gone to 12th in Rasi chart indicating Guru is Mokshamsha or Vyayamsha and Chandra who is in 12th in Rasi chart has gone to Meena Navamsha and in Rasi chart,it is considered as

Lagnamsha.So this means Chandra has a influence over Guru who is in Mokshamsha which clearly indicates that Guru will try to push the native towards Moksha through Chandra who is nothing but the deity indicated by Chandra,Lord Krishna but as Chandra is in Jala Tattwa Rasi and is in the sign of Meena Rasi ruled by Guru,he will also worship a female deity represented by Guru ie., Mother Tara Devi.

But now the quetion about Swamsha remained same.Because different authors give different interpretations,I feel that as per Sanjay Ji who has given in his translations on Jaimini Sutras on Page 59 indicating Swamsha is nothing but Karakamsha or the Navamsha occupied by Chara Atma Karaka.

I hope this helps .

With Shri Hari Vaayu Naama Smarana,

Ramadas Rao.Karu <heen wrote:

HARE RAMA KRISHNA

Dear Shailesh,Partha and Ramadasji,

When ever we speack "AMSA Lagna, it can indicate not only Navamsa or Karakamsa, but any Amsa. For example, Ketwamsa Guramsa, Dasamsa etc.

Secondly, We have to look at the Yoga in another angle. For example, when Saturn in the 5th, it is fifth sign from lagna and Lagna is in 9th from 5th. Karaka for both houses (5,9) is Jupiter, who owns DHANU ! (While Saturn is the karaka for 10 th house) So, you may have to see the placement of Jupiter too. The secret is hidden within the sloka and it was only SJC opened the secret to us.

Long time back, I had same question and please read below for more details. Here Sanjay explains very clearly and hope this will help you.

Regards

Karu

Please Read on

.............................

OM VISHNAVE NAMAH

Dear Karu,

Comments are under:

-

Karu <heen

Tuesday, April 25, 2000 10:16 AM

[Jagannath] Re: [gjlist] Marriage

> > > This principle can also be extended to the Navamsa in a chart.> This is a part of Brighu's & Jaimini teachings. For example if a> planet is in a sign (A), then any other planet placed in Navamsa (A)> or transiting Navamsa (A) shall be influenced by it. Let us say Ketu> is in Pisces, then the transit of the Sun (in any sign) in the> navamsa of Ketu can cause conception and pregnancy can result. The> technical term used in this case for Pisces navamsa is KETVAMSA. In> this manner, the sign occupied by Jupiter in Rasi chart is called> Guramsa in the Navamsa or the sign occupied by Lagna in Rasi chart is> called Lagnamsa in the Navamsa.> > > Jaya Jaya Jagannatha,> Namasthe Gurudeve Sanjay,> > To make sure it is clear to me I am forwarding my question about this.> > Your Jupiter is in Pisces

in Rasi chart. Pisces is 5th from 9D and it is> the Guramsa. Moon is in your Guramsa. So Jupiter will be influenced by Moon> in Moon's periods or Mondays.

RATH: THAT IS CORRECT. IN FACT THERE IS A SOOKSHMA PARIVARTANA BETWEEN THE MOON AND GURU AS GURU IS IN THE NAVAMSA OF THE SIGN OCCUPIED BY THE MOON AND THE MOON IS IN A NAVAMSA OF THE SIGN OCCUPIED BY GURU. THIS MAKES ME LOOK AT THE MOON AS MY GURU I.E. SRI KRISHNA BECOMES JAGANNATH IN MY CHART.

> > Same way sign occupied by Lagna in rasi chart, ( called Lagna or Ascendent> sign) in the 9D is "Lagnamsa."> > Your Lagna is Pisces and in the 5th from 9D. So Lagnamsa is Pisces with Moon> in it.> > If I am correct, why you said that Scorpio is your Lagnamsa in page 59> Upadesa Suthra ? I think Scorpio is your Swamsa, not Lagnamsa. I had this> question from long time unanswered, this is the time to understand it.

RATH: AMSALAGNA AND LAGNAMSA ARE QUITE INTERCHANGABLE AND ONE HAS TO BE CAREFUL IN READING. THIS IS THE MISTAKE KN RAO MADE IN THE INTERPRETATION OF THE WORD KARAKAMSA WHERE HE FEELS THAT THIS IS THE RASI SIGN OCCUPIED BY THE AK IN THE NAVAMSA. LAGNAMSA IS THE NAVAMSA OF LAGNA AND KARAKAMSA IS THE NAVAMSA OF ATMAKARAKA. IN FACT THE EXACT TERM SHOULD BE ATMAKARAKAMSA TO DIFFERENTIATE IT FROM THE OTHER KARAKA. VERY OFTEN YOU FIND THE WORD "AMSA" BEING USED AND ONE HAS TO BE VERY CAREFUL AS THIS IS GENERALLY NAVAMSA, BUT COULD BE DIFFERENT IN A SPECIFIC CONTEXT. I TRIED TO FINALISE A TERMINOLOGY BUT THE DIFFERENT WAYS OF USING SANSKRIT WORDS MAKES IT VERY DIFFICULT.> > Could you please rectify me when you are OK ?> > Hare Krishna.> Your Sishya> > Karu

yOU ARE A VERY SINCERE AND HARDWORKING INDIVIDUAL AND THIS WILL SURELY LEAD TO PERFECTION.

Best WishesSanjay Rath

Dear Karu,

Clarifications below:

-

Karu <heen

Friday, April 28, 2000 4:48 AM

Re: [Jagannath] Re: [gjlist] Marriage

Jaya Jaya Jaganatha,Dear Gurudeva Sanjay,Now I have more trouble regarding Karakamsa/ lagnamsa.According to Sri KN Rao the karakamsa is* Rasi sign occupied by the AK in the Nawamsa chart.*IN YOUR CASE SATURN IS THE AK AND SATURN IN THE VIRGO IN 9D. SO YOUR'S KARAKAMSA MUST BE VIRGO.

RATH: OK ACCORDING TO THE PARAMPARA IT IS VIRGO IN THE NAVAMSA, BUT ACCORDING TO THE NEW RESEARCH OF KN RAO IT IS VIRGO IN THE RASI CHART.LAGNAMSA IS NAVAMSA OF LAGNA. SO LAGNAMSA = NAVAMSA IN YOUR'S, LAGNAMSA AND NAVAMSA IS SCORPIO. THEN WHAT WILL BE THE LAGNA SIGN IN THE 9D ?

RATH: THAT IS WHERE I TRIED TO INTRODUCE A NEW TERM CALLED AMSA-LAGNA TO DIFFERENTIATE IT FROM LAGNAMSA. HOWEVER, TECHNICALLY, LAGNAMSA SIMPLY MEANS LAGNA + AMSA AND THIS CAN MEAN BOTH NAVAMSA LAGNA I.E. SCORPIO AS WELL AS THE NAVAMSA SIGN PISCES WHICH HAPPENS TO BE THE LAGNA IN THE RASI CHART. USAGE IS VITAL AND THAT IS WHY I TRIED TO COIN A NEW TERM FOR THIS PURPOSE ELSE WHEN WE STUDY BRIGHU EVERYTHING WILL GO HAYWARE.YOUR KETH-AMSA IS 2ND OF THE 9D.( SAG)

RATH: KETHVAMSA MEANS THE NAVAMSA OF KETU. HOWEVER IF THE SLOKA SAYS SUN TRANSITS KETVAMSA, THEN THE REFERENCE IS TO THE TRANSIT OF THE SUN IN THE NAVAMSA OF THE RASI SIGN OCCUPIED BY KETU. HERE KETU IS IN SAGITTARIUS AND NAVAMSA CHART IS NOT USED. IN GOCHAR THE SUN WILL TRANSIT SAY ARIES 29 DEG. THEN THE SUN WILL BE, IN TRANSIT IN ARIES RASI SAGITTARIUS NAVAMSA. THEN IT IS SAID TO TRANSIT KETVAMSA.THIS IS THE WAY BRIGHU HAS USED THE TERMS AND SO HAS JAIMINI.

THUS, KETVAMSA CAN REFER TO

1. THE NAVAMSA SIGN OCCUPIED BY KETU

2. THE SIGN IN THE NAVAMSA CHART OCCUPIED BY KETU IN THE RASI CHART.

WHERE KN RAO HAS GONE WRONG IS THE DIFFERENT WORD "AMSA-KA". LIKE LAGNAMSAKA. FOR EXAMPLE, MY HOROSCOPE LAGNA IS PISCES AND NAVAMSA LAGNA IS SCORPIO. THEN THE SIGN SCORPIO IN THE RASI CHART IS LAGNAMSAKA. THIS IS USED IN LAGNAMSAKA DASA...LET THIS BE (NO QUESTIONS ON THIS DASA PLEASE).

NOW SEE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN KN RAO & ME: FOR HIM THE "KARAKAMSAKA" IS KARAKAMSA, WHICH IS WRONG.

Best WishesSanjay Rath

YOUR GURAMSA IS 5TH OF THE 9D (PISC)YOUR SURYAMSA IS 9TH OF THE 9D (CAN)YOUR (LAGNAMSA) IS 5TH FROM 9D (PISC) ???You say,*LAGNAMSA IS THE NAVAMSA OF LAGNA* AND *KARAKAMSA IS THE NAVAMSA OF ATMAKARAKA.*If Karakamsa is the navamsa of AK, it is still Virgo isn't ?Could you write in this regard, a detail letter ? Can any one who properly understand this help me to clear this ? Hare Krishna,Your SishyaKaru RATH: AMSALAGNA AND LAGNAMSA ARE QUITE INTERCHANGABLE AND ONE HAS TO BE CAREFUL IN READING. THIS IS THE MISTAKE KN RAO MADE IN THE INTERPRETATION OF THE WORD KARAKAMSA WHERE HE FEELS THAT THIS IS THE RASI SIGN OCCUPIED BY THE AK IN THE NAVAMSA. LAGNAMSA IS THE NAVAMSA OF LAGNA AND KARAKAMSA IS THE NAVAMSA OF ATMAKARAKA. IN FACT THE EXACT TERM SHOULD BE ATMAKARAKAMSA TO DIFFERENTIATE IT FROM THE OTHER KARAKA. VERY OFTEN YOU FIND

THE WORD "AMSA" BEING USED AND ONE HAS TO BE VERY CAREFUL AS THIS IS GENERALLY NAVAMSA, BUT COULD BE DIFFERENT IN A SPECIFIC CONTEXT. I TRIED TO FINALISE A TERMINOLOGY BUT THE DIFFERENT WAYS OF USING SANSKRIT WORDS MAKES IT VERY DIFFICULT.|Om Tat Sat|http://www.varahamihira

India Promos: Win a trip for 2 to Britain.

March 19, 2004

HARE RAMA KRSHNA

Dear Partha and Ramadasji,

Thanks for the repply.Sorry about late. Please see my own understanding.

` nmae naray[ay,

om namo näräyaëäya|Dear Karu,

Thanks for the informations sharing with us.I understand between Lagnamsha and Karakamsha.Now the question is about SWamsha.Because Sri Sanjay Ji has written notes in his translations on Jaimini Sutras,stating Swamsha is generally Navamsha of Lagna but in broader sense it can be considered as Karakamsha.

According to my understandings, we have to see the Yoga with relevant chart. For example we know 12th from Karakamsa shows Ishta. We are not going to see ishta from D10 or D30. But we look at D9.

How do you read Sastyamsa ? Do you consider AK and ishta for last birth ? If yes, let's say Ketu in 12th from AK, would you say the native was a worshiper of Ganesh last birth or was a seeker of Moksha ?

Let's take another example. Would you check all yogas related to 5th house in D60 for see children of last birth ? If yes, all yogas under swamsa are valid to all types of varga charts. Then, take the lagna of any interested chart as Swamsa. If you look at from Lagna, Lagna become Swamsa, if you look at from AK, Karakamsa become swamsa etc. All yogas under swamsa are valid for any (relevant) D-n charts as well as Karakamasa and any amsas.

So far this was my understanding. But, does not mean it is correct.

Now if you go through Shri C.S.Patel's book on " Predicting through Navamsha and Nadi Astrology " ,he quotes verses from Dhruva Nadi and gives very good interpretations about the sign occupied by the planet in Navamsha and how to interpret them in Rasi Chart.Now for example

1) if Lagna is Meena and Navamsha is Vrischika,then Vrischika in Rasi chart becomes Bhagyamsa.

I neither agree nor disagree. But please do consider following for me.

a) Amsa cannot be a full 30 Degree of space and time (a full sign). I think Amsa means a "portion" of sign such as 1/9th, 1/10th. Then how we can say Amsa to sign in Rasi chart ? Instead, the term AMSAKA is much better.

b) Let's say, one born in Mesha Lagna Dhanu Navamsa. So, his 9th in Rasi chart Become Bhagyamsa. Lets take another case, one born Mesha, but Tula navamsa. His Bhagyamsa is 7th house in Rasi !. Can you see some mismach or confusion there ?

c) Instead, let's see the whole thing other way around. One born in any lagna 4th Navamsa=Sukamsa, 9th Navamsa=Bhagyamsa, 11th Navamsa=Labamsa and so on. How ever, when we come back to Rasi chart, since any sign is not a portion of sign we are not using the term Amsa, but AMSAKA.

2) Now Chandra who is in 12th in Rashi chart if comes to Meena in Navamsha,then Chandra is called as Lagnamsa,

3) Guru who is in Lagna when comes to Kumbha in Navamsha is called as Vyayaamsa or Mokshamsa in Rasi chart and so on.Now as you interpreted Shri Sanjay Ji's chart,there is an exchange of planets in Navamsha for both Chandra and Guru.

The planet Guru who is the owner of Meena Rasi and lord of Lagna in the Navamsha has gone to 12th in Rasi chart indicating Guru is Mokshamsha or Vyayamsha and Chandra who is in 12th in Rasi chart has gone to Meena Navamsha and in Rasi chart,it is considered as Lagnamsha.So this means Chandra has a influence over Guru who is in Mokshamsha which clearly indicates that Guru will try to push the native towards Moksha through Chandra who is nothing but the deity indicated by Chandra,Lord Krishna but as Chandra is in Jala Tattwa Rasi and is in the sign of Meena Rasi ruled by Guru,he will also worship a female deity represented by Guru ie., Mother Tara Devi.

But now the quetion about Swamsha remained same.Because different authors give different interpretations,I feel that as per Sanjay Ji who has given in his translations on Jaimini Sutras on Page 59 indicating Swamsha is nothing but Karakamsha or the Navamsha occupied by Chara Atma Karaka.

I feel swamsa is called any Lagna in any varga chart. Perhaps wrong. Otherwise, how we apply same yoga to D60 ?

I hope this helps .

With Shri Hari Vaayu Naama Smarana,

Ramadas Rao.

Thank you very much for sharing your understanding. Let's learn. Partha, why don't we discuss all slokas in the list as well. One by one..

Thanks

KaruKaru <heen wrote:

HARE RAMA KRISHNA

Dear Shailesh,Partha and Ramadasji,

When ever we speack "AMSA Lagna, it can indicate not only Navamsa or Karakamsa, but any Amsa. For example, Ketwamsa Guramsa, Dasamsa etc.

Secondly, We have to look at the Yoga in another angle. For example, when Saturn in the 5th, it is fifth sign from lagna and Lagna is in 9th from 5th. Karaka for both houses (5,9) is Jupiter, who owns DHANU ! (While Saturn is the karaka for 10 th house) So, you may have to see the placement of Jupiter too. The secret is hidden within the sloka and it was only SJC opened the secret to us.

Long time back, I had same question and please read below for more details. Here Sanjay explains very clearly and hope this will help you.

Regards

Karu

Please Read on

.............................

OM VISHNAVE NAMAH

Dear Karu,

Comments are under:

-

Karu <heen

Tuesday, April 25, 2000 10:16 AM

[Jagannath] Re: [gjlist] Marriage

> > > This principle can also be extended to the Navamsa in a chart.> This is a part of Brighu's & Jaimini teachings. For example if a> planet is in a sign (A), then any other planet placed in Navamsa (A)> or transiting Navamsa (A) shall be influenced by it. Let us say Ketu> is in Pisces, then the transit of the Sun (in any sign) in the> navamsa of Ketu can cause conception and pregnancy can result. The> technical term used in this case for Pisces navamsa is KETVAMSA. In> this manner, the sign occupied by Jupiter in Rasi chart is called> Guramsa in the Navamsa or the sign occupied by Lagna in Rasi chart is> called Lagnamsa in the Navamsa.> > > Jaya Jaya Jagannatha,> Namasthe Gurudeve Sanjay,> > To make sure it is clear to me I am forwarding my question about this.> > Your Jupiter is i n Pisces in Rasi chart. Pisces is 5th from 9D and it is> the Guramsa. Moon is in your Guramsa. So Jupiter will be influenced by Moon> in Moon's periods or Mondays.

RATH: THAT IS CORRECT. IN FACT THERE IS A SOOKSHMA PARIVARTANA BETWEEN THE MOON AND GURU AS GURU IS IN THE NAVAMSA OF THE SIGN OCCUPIED BY THE MOON AND THE MOON IS IN A NAVAMSA OF THE SIGN OCCUPIED BY GURU. THIS MAKES ME LOOK AT THE MOON AS MY GURU I.E. SRI KRISHNA BECOMES JAGANNATH IN MY CHART.

> > Same way sign occupied by Lagna in rasi chart, ( called Lagna or Ascendent> sign) in the 9D is "Lagnamsa."> > Your Lagna is Pisces and in the 5th from 9D. So Lagnamsa is Pisces with Moon> in it.> > If I am correct, why you said that Scorpio is your Lagnamsa in page 59> Upadesa Suthra ? I think Scorpio is your Swamsa, not Lagnamsa. I had this> question from long time unanswered, this is the time to understand it.

RATH: AMSALAGNA AND LAGNAMSA ARE QUITE INTERCHANGABLE AND ONE HAS TO BE CAREFUL IN READING. THIS IS THE MISTAKE KN RAO MADE IN THE INTERPRETATION OF THE WORD KARAKAMSA WHERE HE FEELS THAT THIS IS THE RASI SIGN OCCUPIED BY THE AK IN THE NAVAMSA. LAGNAMSA IS THE NAVAMSA OF LAGNA AND KARAKAMSA IS THE NAVAMSA OF ATMAKARAKA. IN FACT THE EXACT TERM SHOULD BE ATMAKARAKAMSA TO DIFFERENTIATE IT FROM THE OTHER KARAKA. VERY OFTEN YOU FIND THE WORD "AMSA" BEING USED AND ONE HAS TO BE VERY CAREFUL AS THIS IS GENERALLY NAVAMSA, BUT COULD BE DIFFERENT IN A SPECIFIC CONTEXT. I TRIED TO FINALISE A TERMINOLOGY BUT THE DIFFERENT WAYS OF USING SANSKRIT WORDS MAKES IT VERY DIFFICULT.> > Could you please rectify me when you are OK ?> > Hare Krishna.> Your Sishya> > Karu

yOU ARE A VERY SINCERE AND HARDWORKING INDIVIDUAL AND THIS WILL SURELY LEAD TO PERFECTION.

Best WishesSanjay Rath

Dear Karu,

Clarifications below:

-

Karu <heen

Friday, April 28, 2000 4:48 AM

Re: [Jagannath] Re: [gjlist] Marriage

Jaya Jaya Jaganatha,Dear Gurudeva Sanjay,Now I have more trouble regarding Karakamsa/ lagnamsa.According to Sri KN Rao the karakamsa is* Rasi sign occupied by the AK in the Nawamsa chart.*IN YOUR CASE SATURN IS THE AK AND SATURN IN THE VIRGO IN 9D. SO YOUR'S KARAKAMSA MUST BE VIRGO.

RATH: OK ACCORDING TO THE PARAMPARA IT IS VIRGO IN THE NAVAMSA, BUT ACCORDING TO THE NEW RESEARCH OF KN RAO IT IS VIRGO IN THE RASI CHART.LAGNAMSA IS NAVAMSA OF LAGNA. SO LAGNAMSA = NAVAMSA IN YOUR'S, LAGNAMSA AND NAVAMSA IS SCORPIO. THEN WHAT WILL BE THE LAGNA SIGN IN THE 9D ?

RATH: THAT IS WHERE I TRIED TO INTRODUCE A NEW TERM CALLED AMSA-LAGNA TO DIFFERENTIATE IT FROM LAGNAMSA. HOWEVER, TECHNICALLY, LAGNAMSA SIMPLY MEANS LAGNA + AMSA AND THIS CAN MEAN BOTH NAVAMSA LAGNA I.E. SCORPIO AS WELL AS THE NAVAMSA SIGN PISCES WHICH HAPPENS TO BE THE LAGNA IN THE RASI CHART. USAGE IS VITAL AND THAT IS WHY I TRIED TO COIN A NEW TERM FOR THIS PURPOSE ELSE WHEN WE STUDY BRIGHU EVERYTHING WILL GO HAYWARE.YOUR KETH-AMSA IS 2ND OF THE 9D.( SAG)

RATH: KETHVAMSA MEANS THE NAVAMSA OF KETU. HOWEVER IF THE SLOKA SAYS SUN TRANSITS KETVAMSA, THEN THE REFERENCE IS TO THE TRANSIT OF THE SUN IN THE NAVAMSA OF THE RASI SIGN OCCUPIED BY KETU. HERE KETU IS IN SAGITTARIUS AND NAVAMSA CHART IS NOT USED. IN GOCHAR THE SUN WILL TRANSIT SAY ARIES 29 DEG. THEN THE SUN WILL BE, IN TRANSIT IN ARIES RASI SAGITTARIUS NAVAMSA. THEN IT IS SAID TO TRANSIT KETVAMSA.THIS IS THE WAY BRIGHU HAS USED THE TERMS AND SO HAS JAIMINI.

THUS, KETVAMSA CAN REFER TO

1. THE NAVAMSA SIGN OCCUPIED BY KETU

2. THE SIGN IN THE NAVAMSA CHART OCCUPIED BY KETU IN THE RASI CHART.

WHERE KN RAO HAS GONE WRONG IS THE DIFFERENT WORD "AMSA-KA". LIKE LAGNAMSAKA. FOR EXAMPLE, MY HOROSCOPE LAGNA IS PISCES AND NAVAMSA LAGNA IS SCORPIO. THEN THE SIGN SCORPIO IN THE RASI CHART IS LAGNAMSAKA. THIS IS USED IN LAGNAMSAKA DASA...LET THIS BE (NO QUESTIONS ON THIS DASA PLEASE).

NOW SEE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN KN RAO & ME: FOR HIM THE "KARAKAMSAKA" IS KARAKAMSA, WHICH IS WRONG.

Best WishesSanjay Rath

YOUR GURAMSA IS 5TH OF THE 9D (PISC)YOUR SURYAMSA IS 9TH OF THE 9D (CAN)YOUR (LAGNAMSA) IS 5TH FROM 9D (PISC) ???You say,*LAGNAMSA IS THE NAVAMSA OF LAGNA* AND *KARAKAMSA IS THE NAVAMSA OF ATMAKARAKA.*If Karakamsa is the navamsa of AK, it is still Virgo isn't ?Could you write in this regard, a detail letter ? Can any one who properly understand this help me to clear this ? Hare Krishna,Your SishyaKaru RATH: AMSALAGNA AND LAGNAMSA ARE QUITE INTERCHANGABLE AND ONE HAS TO BE CAREFUL IN READING. THIS IS THE MISTAKE KN RAO MADE IN THE INTERPRETATION OF THE WORD KARAKAMSA WHERE HE FEELS THAT THIS IS THE RASI SIGN OCCUPIED BY THE AK IN THE NAVAMSA. LAGNAMSA IS THE NAVAMSA OF LAGNA AND KARAKAMSA IS THE NAVAMSA OF ATMAKARAKA. IN FACT THE EXACT TERM SHOULD BE ATMAKARAKAMSA TO DIFFERENTIATE IT FROM THE OTHER KARAKA. VERY OFTEN YOU FIND THE WORD "AMSA" BEING USED AND ONE HAS TO BE VERY CAREFUL AS THIS IS GENERALLY NAVAMSA, BUT COULD BE DIFFERENT IN A SPECIFIC CONTEXT. I TRIED TO FINALISE A TERMINOLOGY BUT THE DIFFERENT WAYS OF USING SANSKRIT WORDS MAKES IT VERY DIFFICULT.

March 19, 2004

` nmae naray[ay,

om namo näräyaëäya|Dear Karu,

Thanks but what is your final answer for Swamsha ? I have quoted from Shri Sanjay Ji's Jaimini Sutras book about the meaning of Swamsha.You explanation does not get clear information whether Swamsha is Navamsha Lagna or karakamsha ie., AK occupied in Navamsha chart.So please clarify.