Human Birth - and the number of rebirths

March 21, 2004

Mangalam Bhagawaan Vishnu

Mangalam Garuda Dhwaja

Mangalam Pundari Kaaksha

Mangalaaya Tanno Hari

Namaste,

I have been reading a book by K.T. Shubhakaran on Nakshatras.

In his prolog he discusses the birth of humans and something I have

not read in any other lititure to date.

He mentions that human is reborn 9 times. Out of the 9 re-births

4 are male, 4 Female, and 1 is eunuch.

He does not give any footnote on where this data comes from e.g.

Puranas,Shruti, etc.

Has anyone have information here? and if we an " see " what the last

birth or next birth will be in terms of male, female, etc.

Pranams,

Frank in San Diego

March 21, 2004

Dear Frank,

I ,too a wondering from where the author has said what has been quoted

by you. If this is to be accepted then the whole basis of jyotish would

go haywire, since the implication would be that one's karma of past life

would not influence whether rebirth takes place or not. Perhaps those

more learned in shashtras would like to comment on this.

My personal opinion is that there could not be any basis for the

statement. Had that been so 1/9th of world population would be eunuchs,

applying simple parameters.

Chandrashekhar.

fls999999999 wrote:

> Mangalam Bhagawaan Vishnu

> Mangalam Garuda Dhwaja

> Mangalam Pundari Kaaksha

> Mangalaaya Tanno Hari

>

> Namaste,

> I have been reading a book by K.T. Shubhakaran on Nakshatras.

> In his prolog he discusses the birth of humans and something I have

> not read in any other lititure to date.

> He mentions that human is reborn 9 times. Out of the 9 re-births

> 4 are male, 4 Female, and 1 is eunuch.

> He does not give any footnote on where this data comes from e.g.

> Puranas,Shruti, etc.

> Has anyone have information here? and if we an " see " what the last

> birth or next birth will be in terms of male, female, etc.

>

> Pranams,

> Frank in San Diego

>

> |Om Tat Sat|

> http://www.varahamihira

>

> ------

> *

March 21, 2004

Dear Chandrashekhar ji,

I am not " more learned in shastras " , but my personal view is that

this assertion is baseless.

I cannot imagine that whatever knowledge and wisdom I have was

developed by me in 8 or less previous births as a human being.

Similarly, I cannot imagine that I will be ready to not come back as

a human being in another 8 or less births. I am very sure based on

my current level of evolution as a human being that I had many many

births as a human beings. I am also sure that I will have many more

before I do not need to be born as a human being again.

This must be Mr. Subhakaran's own theory and it does not sound right.

May Jupiter's light shine on us,

Narasimha

> Dear Frank,

> I ,too a wondering from where the author has said what has been

quoted

> by you. If this is to be accepted then the whole basis of jyotish

would

> go haywire, since the implication would be that one's karma of

past life

> would not influence whether rebirth takes place or not. Perhaps

those

> more learned in shashtras would like to comment on this.

> My personal opinion is that there could not be any basis for the

> statement. Had that been so 1/9th of world population would be

eunuchs,

> applying simple parameters.

> Chandrashekhar.

>

> fls999999999 wrote:

>

> > Mangalam Bhagawaan Vishnu

> > Mangalam Garuda Dhwaja

> > Mangalam Pundari Kaaksha

> > Mangalaaya Tanno Hari

> >

> > Namaste,

> > I have been reading a book by K.T. Shubhakaran on Nakshatras.

> > In his prolog he discusses the birth of humans and something I

have

> > not read in any other lititure to date.

> > He mentions that human is reborn 9 times. Out of the 9 re-

births

> > 4 are male, 4 Female, and 1 is eunuch.

> > He does not give any footnote on where this data comes from e.g.

> > Puranas,Shruti, etc.

> > Has anyone have information here? and if we an " see " what the

last

> > birth or next birth will be in terms of male, female, etc.

> >

> > Pranams,

> > Frank in San Diego

March 22, 2004

Dear Narasimha, Chandrasekhara, and Frank,

I saw the thread on human births, and I agree that the statement to the

effect that the Atma takes only 9 human births -- 4 male, 4 female, and 1

eunuch --- is indeed absurd. Consider the following shloka from the

Bhagavad-gita (7.19):

bahunam janmanam ante

jnanavan mam prapadyate

vasudevah sarvam iti

sa mahatma su-durlabhah

" After many births and deaths, he who is actually in knowledge

surrenders unto Me, knowing Me to be the cause of all causes and all that

is. Such a great soul is very rare. "

So, presumably one surrenders to Vasudeva (Vishnu/Krishna) after many,

many births as a " Jnani " , or one who studies the Vedas to

understand the Supreme Truth. Just think of how many thousands,

perhaps millions of human births one has to take to come to the point of

learning Vedic scripture, what then to speak of becoming

God-realized! So the idea that there are only 9 human births is

ridiculous, and, as Narasimha said, has no basis whatsoever.

Best wishes,

Robert

At 10:53 PM 3/21/04 +0000, you wrote:

Dear Chandrashekhar ji,

I am not " more learned in shastras " , but my personal view is

that

this assertion is baseless.

I cannot imagine that whatever knowledge and wisdom I have was

developed by me in 8 or less previous births as a human being.

Similarly, I cannot imagine that I will be ready to not come back as

a human being in another 8 or less births. I am very sure based on

my current level of evolution as a human being that I had many many

births as a human beings. I am also sure that I will have many more

before I do not need to be born as a human being again.

This must be Mr. Subhakaran's own theory and it does not sound

right.

May Jupiter's light shine on us,

Narasimha

> Dear Frank,

> I ,too a wondering from where the author has said what has been

quoted

> by you. If this is to be accepted then the whole basis of jyotish

would

> go haywire, since the implication would be that one's karma of

past life

> would not influence whether rebirth takes place or not. Perhaps

those

> more learned in shashtras would like to comment on this.

> My personal opinion is that there could not be any basis for the

> statement. Had that been so 1/9th of world population would be

eunuchs,

> applying simple parameters.

> Chandrashekhar.

>

> fls999999999 wrote:

>

> > Mangalam Bhagawaan Vishnu

> > Mangalam Garuda Dhwaja

> > Mangalam Pundari Kaaksha

> > Mangalaaya Tanno Hari

> >

> > Namaste,

> > I have been reading a book by K.T. Shubhakaran on

Nakshatras.

> > In his prolog he discusses the birth of humans and something I

have

> > not read in any other lititure to date.

> > He mentions that human is reborn 9 times. Out of

the 9 re-

births

> > 4 are male, 4 Female, and 1 is eunuch.

> > He does not give any footnote on where this data comes from

e.g.

> > Puranas,Shruti, etc.

> > Has anyone have information here? and if we an " see "

what the

last

> > birth or next birth will be in terms of male, female, etc.

> >

> > Pranams,

> > Frank in San Diego

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Robert A. Koch, Vedic Astrologer

visit

<http://www.robertkoch.com>

Ph: 541.318.0248

March 22, 2004

Dear Narasimha,

I am glad, you agree with my views. By the way, I did not mean anything

beyond exactly what it means by " More learned in Shashtras " , since I do

not think that I am an authority over Dasha shashtras.

Regards,

Chandrashekhar.

pvr108 wrote:

> Dear Chandrashekhar ji,

>

> I am not " more learned in shastras " , but my personal view is that

> this assertion is baseless.

>

> I cannot imagine that whatever knowledge and wisdom I have was

> developed by me in 8 or less previous births as a human being.

> Similarly, I cannot imagine that I will be ready to not come back as

> a human being in another 8 or less births. I am very sure based on

> my current level of evolution as a human being that I had many many

> births as a human beings. I am also sure that I will have many more

> before I do not need to be born as a human being again.

>

> This must be Mr. Subhakaran's own theory and it does not sound right.

>

> May Jupiter's light shine on us,

> Narasimha

>

> > Dear Frank,

> > I ,too a wondering from where the author has said what has been

> quoted

> > by you. If this is to be accepted then the whole basis of jyotish

> would

> > go haywire, since the implication would be that one's karma of

> past life

> > would not influence whether rebirth takes place or not. Perhaps

> those

> > more learned in shashtras would like to comment on this.

> > My personal opinion is that there could not be any basis for the

> > statement. Had that been so 1/9th of world population would be

> eunuchs,

> > applying simple parameters.

> > Chandrashekhar.

> >

> > fls999999999 wrote:

> >

> > > Mangalam Bhagawaan Vishnu

> > > Mangalam Garuda Dhwaja

> > > Mangalam Pundari Kaaksha

> > > Mangalaaya Tanno Hari

> > >

> > > Namaste,

> > > I have been reading a book by K.T. Shubhakaran on Nakshatras.

> > > In his prolog he discusses the birth of humans and something I

> have

> > > not read in any other lititure to date.

> > > He mentions that human is reborn 9 times. Out of the 9 re-

> births

> > > 4 are male, 4 Female, and 1 is eunuch.

> > > He does not give any footnote on where this data comes from e.g.

> > > Puranas,Shruti, etc.

> > > Has anyone have information here? and if we an " see " what the

> last

> > > birth or next birth will be in terms of male, female, etc.

> > >

> > > Pranams,

> > > Frank in San Diego

>

> |Om Tat Sat|

> http://www.varahamihira

>

> ------

> *

March 23, 2004

::Om namo bhagavate vasudevaya::

Dear Robert and everyone,

I double that. This is quite absurd to say the least. Further there is no such sequence as is being made out. The atma gerts a body (Yoni) based on sanchita karma for the purpose of anubhava. So this count has norelevance, and further, both Mercury and Saturn are eunuch so the numbers also do not line up.

With best regards,

Sanjay Rath

Maling address: 212 Gopal Ballav Road, Puri 752001, India; Tel: 91.6752.226269; webpages: http://srath.com

--------------------------------

Robert A. Koch [rk] Monday, March 22, 2004 8:54 AMvarahamihira Subject: Re: |Sri Varaha| Re: Human Birth - and the number of rebirths

Dear Narasimha, Chandrasekhara, and Frank, I saw the thread on human births, and I agree that the statement to the effect that the Atma takes only 9 human births -- 4 male, 4 female, and 1 eunuch --- is indeed absurd. Consider the following shloka from the Bhagavad-gita (7.19):

bahunam janmanam ante jnanavan mam prapadyate vasudevah sarvam iti sa mahatma su-durlabhah"After many births and deaths, he who is actually in knowledge surrenders unto Me, knowing Me to be the cause of all causes and all that is. Such a great soul is very rare."So, presumably one surrenders to Vasudeva (Vishnu/Krishna) after many, many births as a "Jnani", or one who studies the Vedas to understand the Supreme Truth. Just think of how many thousands, perhaps millions of human births one has to take to come to the point of learning Vedic scripture, what then to speak of becoming God-realized! So the idea that there are only 9 human births is ridiculous, and, as Narasimha said, has no basis whatsoever. Best wishes,RobertAt 10:53 PM 3/21/04 +0000, you wrote:

Dear Chandrashekhar ji, I am not "more learned in shastras", but my personal view is that this assertion is baseless. I cannot imagine that whatever knowledge and wisdom I have was developed by me in 8 or less previous births as a human being. Similarly, I cannot imagine that I will be ready to not come back as a human being in another 8 or less births. I am very sure based on my current level of evolution as a human being that I had many many births as a human beings. I am also sure that I will have many more before I do not need to be born as a human being again. This must be Mr. Subhakaran's own theory and it does not sound right. May Jupiter's light shine on us,Narasimha > Dear Frank,> I ,too a wondering from where the author has said what has been quoted > by you. If this is to be accepted then the whole basis of jyotish would > go haywire, since the implication would be that one's karma of past life > would not influence whether rebirth takes place or not. Perhaps those > more learned in shashtras would like to comment on this.> My personal opinion is that there could not be any basis for the > statement. Had that been so 1/9th of world population would be eunuchs, > applying simple parameters.> Chandrashekhar.> > > fls999999999 wrote:> > > Mangalam Bhagawaan Vishnu> > Mangalam Garuda Dhwaja> > Mangalam Pundari Kaaksha> > Mangalaaya Tanno Hari> >> > Namaste,> > I have been reading a book by K.T. Shubhakaran on Nakshatras.> > In his prolog he discusses the birth of humans and something I have> > not read in any other lititure to date.> > He mentions that human is reborn 9 times. Out of the 9 re-births> > 4 are male, 4 Female, and 1 is eunuch.> > He does not give any footnote on where this data comes from e.g.> > Puranas,Shruti, etc.> > Has anyone have information here? and if we an "see" what the last> > birth or next birth will be in terms of male, female, etc.> >> > Pranams,> > Frank in San Diego

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Robert A. Koch, Vedic Astrologer

visit <http://www.robertkoch.com>

Ph: 541.318.0248|Om Tat Sat|http://www.varahamihira