Guest guest Posted April 28, 2004 Report Share Posted April 28, 2004 Om Gurave Namah Namaste All, The following few lines rekindled the following thought process that started a few Sundays back. I have been trying to stifle the same, desperately, due partially to paucity of time but mostly to intellectual inertia. I was also afraid of tying up myself in endless knots after raking up this subject. Well, watch me do it now! One Sunday I woke up with a startling Thought. You know very well that Sun is my 9th lord and I guess on Sundays my Sub-/Unconscious is extra active, suggesting certain strange things, which I feel, I can very well do without. Sun is also my Karakamsa Lord and is in D-60 lagna, so the connection to past is clear, so what is being suggested perhaps has some unknown historical basis. Whatever. Whenever there is a discussion on rebirth, the active connection of the nodes to rebirth is avidly discussed. However, my Sunday Thought suggested that the predominant tattwa in the chart would decide your future birth. What is being put forth is the premise that for moksha, or for an " ethereal " existence, what is necessary is not the negation of pancha tattwa but an equilibrium of pancha tattwa. They need to be present in equal proportions. Then Earth & Water, Fire & Air (the well-known Jyotish principle of oppoition) neutralise each other, leaving out Ether. If soul is not pure Ether & Bliss, then what else is it? Birth (s) would occur whenever there is an imbalance of tattwa and would continue till the equilibrium point is regained. A soul, all through the successive births, would continue to be associated with the same thread of a dominant tattwa till it is neutralised. For example, in Gurudeva Sanjay Rath's chart, the ascendants in D-1, D-9, and D-60 are all water signs. He was also born in moon hora. It is the association of his AK with Bhoo-tattwa or Mercury that is pulling him back to earth again and again. Not bad for all of us at all J In my chart there is predominance of agni tattwa, and indications are that I have had the same tattwa predominant even in my previous births. I was born in sun hora and my ascendant in D-1, Karakamsa (Leo) are both fiery signs and though navamsa lagna {Scorpio – ruled by Mars (AK)}and D-60 lagna (Pisces) are watery signs, they are not without influence of fire (Sun in Pisces). This point perhaps can be verified with more charts. Here, by the word " birth " I do not mean only human beings. There are many Beings in the universe, who are not visible to the human eye, but which do exist nonetheless. The soul gets a visible form when prithwi tattwa is fairly strong. If you peruse the charts of Sri Rama and Sri Krishna, what is apparent is the strength of sattwa guna (Sun, Moon and Jupiter very strong in the charts). An examination of the successive births of Jaya & Vijaya as Hiranyaksa & Hiranyakashyapa, Ravana & Kumbhakarna, Sisupala & Dantavaktra, and their traits, I think, aptly illustrates this point. From the above examples it is also apparent that the potency of the tattwa is progessively weakening over successive births. In the first birth, the Lord had to incarnate twice to tackle the Asuras, while in the case of Ravana and Kumbhakarna, the latter was more of a sleeping partner and the cause for which the Lord incarnated was much bigger than termination of the two. In the third case Sisupala and Dantavaktra cease to be the main villains altogether. I am aware that whatever I have put forth will have a thousand mistakes. Whatever is said may not be news to the learned people on the lists, but for me it is indeed a new perspective. In this process of digesting the information, if I am sounding incoherent or fail to make sense, then perhaps it is my failure to properly grasp & communicate what was told to me. And, retro Mercury is certainly not helping my cause! Some research perhaps can be carried out to test the truth of the above. If some study has already been conducted in this area, I would be very much interested in knowing the findings. Thanks for your time. Regards, Lakshmi Kirti Simha <kingkirti> Wed Apr 28, 2004 10:23 am Re: [sJC: Achyuta Gurukul] PurvaJanma Links: Relation of Ninth Lord with Rahu-Ketu Axis for unfinished agenda Dear Pankaj, > Statement : > " In a birth chart the Planets caught in Rahu-Ketu > axis > are indicative of the past life ninth lord and > unfinished tasks > of the past life. " Does this mean we can use this concept to verify accuracy of birthtime too by looking at the D- 60 lagna. Meaning that the ninth lord from the D-60 lagna should also be the same planet? Regards, Kirti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2004 Report Share Posted April 28, 2004 Om Namo Narayanaya, Hello Lakshmi, Nice thoughts.. Glad to see your name in the inbox Best wishes Zoran B Lakshmi Ramesh wrote: Om Gurave NamahNamaste All,The following few lines rekindled the following thought process that started a few Sundays back. I have been trying to stifle the same, desperately, due partially to paucity of time but mostly to intellectual inertia. I was also afraid of tying up myself in endless knots after raking up this subject. Well, watch me do it now!One Sunday I woke up with a startling Thought. You know very well that Sun is my 9th lord and I guess on Sundays my Sub-/Unconscious is extra active, suggesting certain strange things, which I feel, I can very well do without. Sun is also my Karakamsa Lord and is in D-60 lagna, so the connection to past is clear, so what is being suggested perhaps has some unknown historical basis. Whatever.Whenever there is a discussion on rebirth, the active connection of the nodes to rebirth is avidly discussed. However, my Sunday Thought suggested tha t the predominant tattwa in the chart would decide your future birth. What is being put forth is the premise that for moksha, or for an "ethereal" existence, what is necessary is not the negation of pancha tattwa but an equilibrium of pancha tattwa. They need to be present in equal proportions. Then Earth & Water, Fire & Air (the well-known Jyotish principle of oppoition) neutralise each other, leaving out Ether. If soul is not pure Ether & Bliss, then what else is it?Birth (s) would occur whenever there is an imbalance of tattwa and would continue till the equilibrium point is regained. A soul, all through the successive births, would continue to be associated with the same thread of a dominant tattwa till it is neutralised. For example, in Gurudeva Sanjay Rath's chart, the ascendants in D-1, D-9, and D-60 are all water signs. He was also born in moon hora. It is the association of his AK with Bhoo- tattwa or Mercury that is pulling him back to earth again and again. Not bad for all of us at all JIn my chart there is predominance of agni tattwa, and indications are that I have had the same tattwa predominant even in my previous births. I was born in sun hora and my ascendant in D-1, Karakamsa (Leo) are both fiery signs and though navamsa lagna {Scorpio – ruled by Mars (AK)}and D-60 lagna (Pisces) are watery signs, they are not without influence of fire (Sun in Pisces). This point perhaps can be verified with more charts.Here, by the word "birth" I do not mean only human beings. There are many Beings in the universe, who are not visible to the human eye, but which do exist nonetheless. The soul gets a visible form when prithwi tattwa is fairly strong. If you peruse the charts of Sri Rama and Sri Krishna, what is apparent is the strength of sattwa guna (Sun, Moon and Jupiter very strong in t he charts). An examination of the successive births of Jaya & Vijaya as Hiranyaksa & Hiranyakashyapa, Ravana & Kumbhakarna, Sisupala & Dantavaktra, and their traits, I think, aptly illustrates this point. >From the above examples it is also apparent that the potency of the tattwa is progessively weakening over successive births. In the first birth, the Lord had to incarnate twice to tackle the Asuras, while in the case of Ravana and Kumbhakarna, the latter was more of a sleeping partner and the cause for which the Lord incarnated was much bigger than termination of the two. In the third case Sisupala and Dantavaktra cease to be the main villains altogether. I am aware that whatever I have put forth will have a thousand mistakes. Whatever is said may not be news to the learned people on the lists, but for me it is indeed a new perspective. In this process of digesting the information, if I am sounding incoherent or fail to make sense, then perhaps it is my failure to properly grasp & communicate what was told to me. And, retro Mercury is certainly not helping my cause! Some research perhaps can be carried out to test the truth of the above. If some study has already been conducted in this area, I would be very much interested in knowing the findings. Thanks for your time.Regards,LakshmiKirti Simha <kingkirti> Wed Apr 28, 2004 10:23 amRe: [sJC: Achyuta Gurukul] PurvaJanma Links: Relation of Ninth Lord with Rahu-Ketu Axis for unfinished agendaDear Pankaj, Statement :" In a birth chart the Planets caught in Rahu-Ketuaxisare indicative of the past life ninth lord andunfinished tasksof the past life." Does this mean we can use this concept to verifyaccuracy of birthtime too by looking at the D- 60lagna. Meaning that the ninth lord from the D-60 lagnashould also be the same planet?Regards,Kirti|Om Tat Sat|http://www.varahamihira Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2004 Report Share Posted April 28, 2004 Om Gurave Namah Dear Zoran! Lovely to hear from you and lovelier to see your website. Keep up the good work and I am sure the Serbia conference would be a great success. All the very best, Lakshmi varahamihira , Zoran Radosavljevic <ahimsa@N...> wrote: > Om Namo Narayanaya, > Hello Lakshmi, > Nice thoughts.. Glad to see your name in the inbox > Best wishes > Zoran > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2004 Report Share Posted April 28, 2004 ... hamsasso.aham .. Dear Lakshmi, Hope you don't mind if I interject a few thoughts on the subject. If you look at the description of creation, one theme stands out clearly : grossification has a very strong link to the gunas. Sattwa guna gives rise to the least amount of grossification, rajas to a little bit more, and tamas gives rise to the greatest grossification. Purusha when associated with sattwa guna gives rise to Ishwara, who is subject to the least amount of grossification, but when subject to the other two gunas, gives rise to avidya, or grossification in the form of a causal body. Again, the causal body when associated with sattwa and rajas give rise to some of the subtler koshas, but when subject to tamas, gives rise to the gross body. From the tamas aspect of prakriti come the subtle tattwas, and from the tamas aspect of these subtle tattwas, there occurs grossification of the tattwas through the process of panchikarana, where the tattwas literally combine with one another (Thus, any physical substance, including bodies is made up of all three gunas. Every sinner indeed has a sattwic aspect to them.) The karmic control planets are the planets with predominating tamas, as they cause a quick manifestation or grossification of the karma that was previously of a subtler nature. This is also a part of why curses manifest during the watch of tamasic planets. Thus, the remedy is the worship of sattwic planets that influence the tamasic planets in some way, allowing karmas (both " good " and " bad " ) to remain in their seed form until one becomes a gyani. An equivalence at the level of tattwas is, strictly speaking, impossible...because each tattwa is a grossified version of another one. Prithivi is formed from Apah, Apah from Agni, Agni from Vayu, and Vayu from Akasha. Akasha is all-pervading (even in the other tattwas)...this is true by definition. Your thoughts were most intruiging, and I hope you write up more of them. There is a relationship between birth and imbalance in tattwas, but I don't think the relationship is one of causation. When a grossification of karma occurs, we call this " process " of taking up of a body (aka taking up imbalanced tattwas) as birth. Thus, the gita teaches us to remain ever steadfast in sattwa guna (i.e. get out of this cycle of rebirth, or, get out this cycle of grossification). ajit > > B Lakshmi Ramesh [b_lakshmi_ramesh] > Wednesday, April 28, 2004 1:28 AM > varahamihira > |Sri Varaha| Tattwa Gyana > > Om Gurave Namah > > Namaste All, > > The following few lines rekindled the following thought process that > started a few Sundays back. I have been trying to stifle the same, > desperately, due partially to paucity of time but mostly to > intellectual inertia. I was also afraid of tying up myself in endless > knots after raking up this subject. Well, watch me do it now! > > One Sunday I woke up with a startling Thought. You know very well > that Sun is my 9th lord and I guess on Sundays my Sub-/Unconscious is > extra active, suggesting certain strange things, which I feel, I can > very well do without. Sun is also my Karakamsa Lord and is in D-60 > lagna, so the connection to past is clear, so what is being suggested > perhaps has some unknown historical basis. Whatever. > > Whenever there is a discussion on rebirth, the active connection of > the nodes to rebirth is avidly discussed. However, my Sunday Thought > suggested that the predominant tattwa in the chart would decide your > future birth. What is being put forth is the premise that for moksha, > or for an " ethereal " existence, what is necessary is not the negation > of pancha tattwa but an equilibrium of pancha tattwa. They need to > be present in equal proportions. Then Earth & Water, Fire & Air (the > well-known Jyotish principle of oppoition) neutralise each other, > leaving out Ether. If soul is not pure Ether & Bliss, then what else > is it? > > Birth (s) would occur whenever there is an imbalance of tattwa and > would continue till the equilibrium point is regained. A soul, all > through the successive births, would continue to be associated with > the same thread of a dominant tattwa till it is neutralised. > > For example, in Gurudeva Sanjay Rath's chart, the ascendants in D-1, > D-9, and D-60 are all water signs. He was also born in moon hora. It > is the association of his AK with Bhoo-tattwa or Mercury that is > pulling him back to earth again and again. Not bad for all of us at > all J > > In my chart there is predominance of agni tattwa, and indications > are that I have had the same tattwa predominant even in my previous > births. I was born in sun hora and my ascendant in D-1, Karakamsa > (Leo) are both fiery signs and though navamsa lagna {Scorpio - ruled > by Mars (AK)}and D-60 lagna (Pisces) are watery signs, they are not > without influence of fire (Sun in Pisces). This point perhaps can be > verified with more charts. > > Here, by the word " birth " I do not mean only human beings. There are > many Beings in the universe, who are not visible to the human eye, > but which do exist nonetheless. The soul gets a visible form when > prithwi tattwa is fairly strong. > > If you peruse the charts of Sri Rama and Sri Krishna, what is > apparent is the strength of sattwa guna (Sun, Moon and Jupiter very > strong in the charts). > > An examination of the successive births of Jaya & Vijaya as > Hiranyaksa & Hiranyakashyapa, Ravana & Kumbhakarna, Sisupala & > Dantavaktra, and their traits, I think, aptly illustrates this point. > From the above examples it is also apparent that the potency of the > tattwa is progessively weakening over successive births. In the first > birth, the Lord had to incarnate twice to tackle the Asuras, while in > the case of Ravana and Kumbhakarna, the latter was more of a sleeping > partner and the cause for which the Lord incarnated was much bigger > than termination of the two. In the third case Sisupala and > Dantavaktra cease to be the main villains altogether. > > I am aware that whatever I have put forth will have a thousand > mistakes. Whatever is said may not be news to the learned people on > the lists, but for me it is indeed a new perspective. In this process > of digesting the information, if I am sounding incoherent or fail to > make sense, then perhaps it is my failure to properly grasp & > communicate what was told to me. And, retro Mercury is certainly not > helping my cause! Some research perhaps can be carried out to test > the truth of the above. If some study has already been conducted in > this area, I would be very much interested in knowing the findings. > > Thanks for your time. > > Regards, > Lakshmi > > > Kirti Simha <kingkirti> > Wed Apr 28, 2004 10:23 am > Re: [sJC: Achyuta Gurukul] PurvaJanma Links: Relation of > Ninth Lord with Rahu-Ketu Axis for unfinished agenda > > Dear Pankaj, > > > Statement : > > " In a birth chart the Planets caught in Rahu-Ketu > > axis > > are indicative of the past life ninth lord and > > unfinished tasks > > of the past life. " > > Does this mean we can use this concept to verify > accuracy of birthtime too by looking at the D- 60 > lagna. Meaning that the ninth lord from the D-60 lagna > should also be the same planet? > > Regards, > > Kirti > > > > > > |Om Tat Sat| > http://www.varahamihira > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2004 Report Share Posted April 28, 2004 Om Gurave Namah Dear Ajit, Namaste. Thanks for your thought provoking response and encouragement. It matters a great deal because I penned my previous mail with a lot of trepidition. Trying to think up answers to the questions you have raised is indeed going to be very educative for me. What you have pointed out about gunas and their interaction in creation is so very true, but why did you say that equivalence at the level of tattwas is virtually impossible? Have we not seen matter exist in three states simultaneously? All tattwas can co-exist in equal measure even though they cascade from one another. Existence / derivation of one tattwa does not mean negation of another. It does not mean assimilation/mutation of one tattwa into another either. What I was talking about is that rare harmony which pervades the Living Universe…a harmony called Vishnu. What happens at the time of Pralaya is a totally different thing altogether. While talking about gunas and assigning them to planets, I hark back to a mail I had written on Srijagannath List around 2 years back. Talking about sattwik planets themselves, are Jupiter, Sun and Moon equally sattwik? Isn't Sun slightly more Rajasik (naturally he is the King) and Moon the more Tamasic one (the reactive planet) and Jupiter is the only truly sattwik planet? So is the case with Rajasik & tamasik planets, which are primarily responsible for grossification. Now, what causes these finer distinctions? It is the essential tattwa of the planet. Yes, it is the grossification of karma that causes birth. But what causes karma? It is the thought behind the action. What causes the thought? It is the imbalance or the disturbance caused in the tattwas. What triggers the imbalance? It could be as innocuous as the, perhaps, routine arrival of Sanaka & company at the golden gates of Vaikuntha. Here, the fault is not with the trigger, but with the unusual reaction of the door-keepers. Anyway, if this kind of imbalance can happen to privileged people like Jaya & Vijaya, who are forever in the glorious presence of the Great Equilibrium, then what can we say about folks like us? hence, punarapi jananam punarapi maranam... Regards, Lakshmi varahamihira , " Ajit Krishnan " <astro@m...> wrote: > .. hamsasso.aham .. > > Dear Lakshmi, > > Hope you don't mind if I interject a few thoughts on the subject. > > If you look at the description of creation, one theme stands out clearly : > grossification has a very strong link to the gunas. Sattwa guna gives rise > to the least amount of grossification, rajas to a little bit more, and tamas > gives rise to the greatest grossification. > > Purusha when associated with sattwa guna gives rise to Ishwara, who is > subject to the least amount of grossification, but when subject to the other > two gunas, gives rise to avidya, or grossification in the form of a causal > body. Again, the causal body when associated with sattwa and rajas give rise > to some of the subtler koshas, but when subject to tamas, gives rise to the > gross body. > > From the tamas aspect of prakriti come the subtle tattwas, and from the > tamas aspect of these subtle tattwas, there occurs grossification of the > tattwas through the process of panchikarana, where the tattwas literally > combine with one another (Thus, any physical substance, including bodies is > made up of all three gunas. Every sinner indeed has a sattwic aspect to > them.) > > The karmic control planets are the planets with predominating tamas, as they > cause a quick manifestation or grossification of the karma that was > previously of a subtler nature. This is also a part of why curses manifest > during the watch of tamasic planets. Thus, the remedy is the worship of > sattwic planets that influence the tamasic planets in some way, allowing > karmas (both " good " and " bad " ) to remain in their seed form until one > becomes a gyani. > > An equivalence at the level of tattwas is, strictly speaking, > impossible...because each tattwa is a grossified version of another one. > Prithivi is formed from Apah, Apah from Agni, Agni from Vayu, and Vayu from > Akasha. Akasha is all-pervading (even in the other tattwas)...this is true > by definition. > > Your thoughts were most intruiging, and I hope you write up more of them. > > There is a relationship between birth and imbalance in tattwas, but I don't > think the relationship is one of causation. When a grossification of karma > occurs, we call this " process " of taking up of a body (aka taking up > imbalanced tattwas) as birth. Thus, the gita teaches us to remain ever > steadfast in sattwa guna (i.e. get out of this cycle of rebirth, or, get out > this cycle of grossification). > > ajit > > > > > > B Lakshmi Ramesh [b_lakshmi_ramesh] > > Wednesday, April 28, 2004 1:28 AM > > varahamihira > > |Sri Varaha| Tattwa Gyana > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > Namaste All, > > > > The following few lines rekindled the following thought process that > > started a few Sundays back. I have been trying to stifle the same, > > desperately, due partially to paucity of time but mostly to > > intellectual inertia. I was also afraid of tying up myself in endless > > knots after raking up this subject. Well, watch me do it now! > > > > One Sunday I woke up with a startling Thought. You know very well > > that Sun is my 9th lord and I guess on Sundays my Sub- /Unconscious is > > extra active, suggesting certain strange things, which I feel, I can > > very well do without. Sun is also my Karakamsa Lord and is in D-60 > > lagna, so the connection to past is clear, so what is being suggested > > perhaps has some unknown historical basis. Whatever. > > > > Whenever there is a discussion on rebirth, the active connection of > > the nodes to rebirth is avidly discussed. However, my Sunday Thought > > suggested that the predominant tattwa in the chart would decide your > > future birth. What is being put forth is the premise that for moksha, > > or for an " ethereal " existence, what is necessary is not the negation > > of pancha tattwa but an equilibrium of pancha tattwa. They need to > > be present in equal proportions. Then Earth & Water, Fire & Air (the > > well-known Jyotish principle of oppoition) neutralise each other, > > leaving out Ether. If soul is not pure Ether & Bliss, then what else > > is it? > > > > Birth (s) would occur whenever there is an imbalance of tattwa and > > would continue till the equilibrium point is regained. A soul, all > > through the successive births, would continue to be associated with > > the same thread of a dominant tattwa till it is neutralised. > > > > For example, in Gurudeva Sanjay Rath's chart, the ascendants in D- 1, > > D-9, and D-60 are all water signs. He was also born in moon hora. It > > is the association of his AK with Bhoo-tattwa or Mercury that is > > pulling him back to earth again and again. Not bad for all of us at > > all J > > > > In my chart there is predominance of agni tattwa, and indications > > are that I have had the same tattwa predominant even in my previous > > births. I was born in sun hora and my ascendant in D-1, Karakamsa > > (Leo) are both fiery signs and though navamsa lagna {Scorpio - ruled > > by Mars (AK)}and D-60 lagna (Pisces) are watery signs, they are not > > without influence of fire (Sun in Pisces). This point perhaps can be > > verified with more charts. > > > > Here, by the word " birth " I do not mean only human beings. There are > > many Beings in the universe, who are not visible to the human eye, > > but which do exist nonetheless. The soul gets a visible form when > > prithwi tattwa is fairly strong. > > > > If you peruse the charts of Sri Rama and Sri Krishna, what is > > apparent is the strength of sattwa guna (Sun, Moon and Jupiter very > > strong in the charts). > > > > An examination of the successive births of Jaya & Vijaya as > > Hiranyaksa & Hiranyakashyapa, Ravana & Kumbhakarna, Sisupala & > > Dantavaktra, and their traits, I think, aptly illustrates this point. > > From the above examples it is also apparent that the potency of the > > tattwa is progessively weakening over successive births. In the first > > birth, the Lord had to incarnate twice to tackle the Asuras, while in > > the case of Ravana and Kumbhakarna, the latter was more of a sleeping > > partner and the cause for which the Lord incarnated was much bigger > > than termination of the two. In the third case Sisupala and > > Dantavaktra cease to be the main villains altogether. > > > > I am aware that whatever I have put forth will have a thousand > > mistakes. Whatever is said may not be news to the learned people on > > the lists, but for me it is indeed a new perspective. In this process > > of digesting the information, if I am sounding incoherent or fail to > > make sense, then perhaps it is my failure to properly grasp & > > communicate what was told to me. And, retro Mercury is certainly not > > helping my cause! Some research perhaps can be carried out to test > > the truth of the above. If some study has already been conducted in > > this area, I would be very much interested in knowing the findings. > > > > Thanks for your time. > > > > Regards, > > Lakshmi > > > > > > Kirti Simha <kingkirti> > > Wed Apr 28, 2004 10:23 am > > Re: [sJC: Achyuta Gurukul] PurvaJanma Links: Relation of > > Ninth Lord with Rahu-Ketu Axis for unfinished agenda > > > > Dear Pankaj, > > > > > Statement : > > > " In a birth chart the Planets caught in Rahu-Ketu > > > axis > > > are indicative of the past life ninth lord and > > > unfinished tasks > > > of the past life. " > > > > Does this mean we can use this concept to verify > > accuracy of birthtime too by looking at the D- 60 > > lagna. Meaning that the ninth lord from the D-60 lagna > > should also be the same planet? > > > > Regards, > > > > Kirti > > > > > > > > > > > > |Om Tat Sat| > > http://www.varahamihira > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2004 Report Share Posted April 28, 2004 Hare Rama Krsna Talking about tattvas, in Ayurveda the constitution is made up of the 5 elements (often made into three vata, pitta, kapha). It is very important not to see one constitution as better than the other. It is more our being able to balance what we are. To live in tune with the constitution that we are is the best. So I would think that maybe trying to balance the tattvas isn't the best way to work with them, maybe seeing what tattvas are predominant, seeing the negative tendencies of that and living so we bring out the highest aspect of our self. Those differences in tattvas make us who we are, we are all individuals. Health is achieved through creating harmony with the tattvas that make us what we are (not the balance of tattvas), so would liberation not have a similar flavor. You mentioned " What happens at the time of Pralaya is a totally different thing altogether. " I would say that it is not different at all, as above so below. The stories of creation and dissolution have the secret to the creation of the mind and its dissolution hidden within them, bondage and moksa. Ajit hit some key points. In samkya philosophy look at where the tattvas finally manifest. My yoga guru taught that Samkya is the Science and Yoga its practical application. When we understand the creation we can go backwards to understand how yoga takes us back to the source. Look also at how much Krsna talks of tattvas in the Gita, there is much more talk of the Gunas relative to liberation. Someone living in sattva, is able to be in 'harmony' with their tattvas. An ayurveda example, a vata constitution has a harder time sleeping, they should not take stimulants in the evening. A sattvic person will not, a rajasic or tamasic person will drink coffee and imbalance themselves. A kapha constitution needs to exercise and avoid too much dairy, a sattvic person will naturally listen to the body and do this, a tamasic person will sit around and eat ice cream all day, creating big imbalance in the kapha person (an activity that may not imbalance a vata person). You have a predominance of agni tattva, in Sattva that will come out as a high level of perceptive ability, in rajas it will come out as an over controlling nature, in tamas it will manifest as anger and action associated with anger and angst. So is the tattva the key liberating factor or is it, the guna through which the primary tattva is manifesting. I agree tattva is a very fundamental concept to be studied, but how and where it is applied must be appropriate. The Gita is very clear how the gunas relate to rebirth, in the area of chapter 14. I'm not sure why you call the Sun tamasic and Moon rajasic, Parashara says clearly: jIvsUyeRNÔv> sÅv< buxzu³aE rjStwa, sUyRpuÇÉrapuÇaE tm>àk«itkaE iÖj. 22. jévasüryendravaù sattvaà budhaçukrau rajastathä | süryaputrabharäputrau tamaùprakåtikau dvija ||3. 22|| Jupiter and Sun and Moon are sattvic, Mercury and Venus are rajasic, Saturn and Mars are tamasic, they give the results for all that manifests. ”But what causes karma? It is the thought behind the action. What causes the thought? It is the imbalance or the disturbance caused in the tattwas. " In Ayurveda school, I was taught that for the health of the body we look at tattvas, for the health of the mind we look at gunas. Much of Ayurvedic psychology is based on increasing the sattva of the mind. " From sattva knowledge is born, and desire from rajas, Confusion and delusion arise from tamas and ignorance as well”. (Gita XIV.17) Parasara lists the gunas of the planets and then says, this gives the results for all that manifests (prakåtikau). Laksmi, I have been meditating on the tattvas recently as well. Especially the point of the Mahapurusha yogas from the 5 planets connected to the tattvas. On the 5 calculations of longevity (Sanjay generally teaches the three pairs, but he has mentioned there are 5, one for each tattva). On the signs being ruled by tattvas, how aspects can be good or bad due to the tattva. And particularly on the pancha upacharya puja and the pancha devata. The tattva gyana and the material world, which is manifesting. I have heard you are a heavy dreamer, so I am sure you meditate upon the ephemeral nature of the material plane, how thin the physical reality is. How else could remedies work if the elements weren't subtle and able to change, and change through propitiations. I have been meditating on how alive the 5 tattvas are, somewhat relative to the panchadevata. How each element we are composed of is the form of the devata. The akash tattva, pervading our bodies mind and environment, and your ability to create harmony everywhere by creating harmony in that akash tattva. I'm not going anywhere logical, these are just my own meditations: ) Namah Sivaya B Lakshmi Ramesh [b_lakshmi_ramesh] Wednesday, April 28, 2004 11:24 PM varahamihira Re: |Sri Varaha| Tattwa Gyana Om Gurave Namah Dear Ajit, Namaste. Thanks for your thought provoking response and encouragement. It matters a great deal because I penned my previous mail with a lot of trepidition. Trying to think up answers to the questions you have raised is indeed going to be very educative for me. What you have pointed out about gunas and their interaction in creation is so very true, but why did you say that equivalence at the level of tattwas is virtually impossible? Have we not seen matter exist in three states simultaneously? All tattwas can co-exist in equal measure even though they cascade from one another. Existence / derivation of one tattwa does not mean negation of another. It does not mean assimilation/mutation of one tattwa into another either. What I was talking about is that rare harmony which pervades the Living Universe…a harmony called Vishnu. What happens at the time of Pralaya is a totally different thing altogether. While talking about gunas and assigning them to planets, I hark back to a mail I had written on Srijagannath List around 2 years back. Talking about sattwik planets themselves, are Jupiter, Sun and Moon equally sattwik? Isn't Sun slightly more Rajasik (naturally he is the King) and Moon the more Tamasic one (the reactive planet) and Jupiter is the only truly sattwik planet? So is the case with Rajasik & tamasik planets, which are primarily responsible for grossification. Now, what causes these finer distinctions? It is the essential tattwa of the planet. Yes, it is the grossification of karma that causes birth. But what causes karma? It is the thought behind the action. What causes the thought? It is the imbalance or the disturbance caused in the tattwas. What triggers the imbalance? It could be as innocuous as the, perhaps, routine arrival of Sanaka & company at the golden gates of Vaikuntha. Here, the fault is not with the trigger, but with the unusual reaction of the door-keepers. Anyway, if this kind of imbalance can happen to privileged people like Jaya & Vijaya, who are forever in the glorious presence of the Great Equilibrium, then what can we say about folks like us? hence, punarapi jananam punarapi maranam... Regards, Lakshmi varahamihira , " Ajit Krishnan " <astro@m...> wrote: > .. hamsasso.aham .. > > Dear Lakshmi, > > Hope you don't mind if I interject a few thoughts on the subject. > > If you look at the description of creation, one theme stands out clearly : > grossification has a very strong link to the gunas. Sattwa guna gives rise > to the least amount of grossification, rajas to a little bit more, and tamas > gives rise to the greatest grossification. > > Purusha when associated with sattwa guna gives rise to Ishwara, who is > subject to the least amount of grossification, but when subject to the other > two gunas, gives rise to avidya, or grossification in the form of a causal > body. Again, the causal body when associated with sattwa and rajas give rise > to some of the subtler koshas, but when subject to tamas, gives rise to the > gross body. > > From the tamas aspect of prakriti come the subtle tattwas, and from the > tamas aspect of these subtle tattwas, there occurs grossification of the > tattwas through the process of panchikarana, where the tattwas literally > combine with one another (Thus, any physical substance, including bodies is > made up of all three gunas. Every sinner indeed has a sattwic aspect to > them.) > > The karmic control planets are the planets with predominating tamas, as they > cause a quick manifestation or grossification of the karma that was > previously of a subtler nature. This is also a part of why curses manifest > during the watch of tamasic planets. Thus, the remedy is the worship of > sattwic planets that influence the tamasic planets in some way, allowing > karmas (both " good " and " bad " ) to remain in their seed form until one > becomes a gyani. > > An equivalence at the level of tattwas is, strictly speaking, > impossible...because each tattwa is a grossified version of another one. > Prithivi is formed from Apah, Apah from Agni, Agni from Vayu, and Vayu from > Akasha. Akasha is all-pervading (even in the other tattwas)...this is true > by definition. > > Your thoughts were most intruiging, and I hope you write up more of them. > > There is a relationship between birth and imbalance in tattwas, but I don't > think the relationship is one of causation. When a grossification of karma > occurs, we call this " process " of taking up of a body (aka taking up > imbalanced tattwas) as birth. Thus, the gita teaches us to remain ever > steadfast in sattwa guna (i.e. get out of this cycle of rebirth, or, get out > this cycle of grossification). > > ajit > > > > > > B Lakshmi Ramesh [b_lakshmi_ramesh] > > Wednesday, April 28, 2004 1:28 AM > > varahamihira > > |Sri Varaha| Tattwa Gyana > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > Namaste All, > > > > The following few lines rekindled the following thought process that > > started a few Sundays back. I have been trying to stifle the same, > > desperately, due partially to paucity of time but mostly to > > intellectual inertia. I was also afraid of tying up myself in endless > > knots after raking up this subject. Well, watch me do it now! > > > > One Sunday I woke up with a startling Thought. You know very well > > that Sun is my 9th lord and I guess on Sundays my Sub- /Unconscious is > > extra active, suggesting certain strange things, which I feel, I can > > very well do without. Sun is also my Karakamsa Lord and is in D-60 > > lagna, so the connection to past is clear, so what is being suggested > > perhaps has some unknown historical basis. Whatever. > > > > Whenever there is a discussion on rebirth, the active connection of > > the nodes to rebirth is avidly discussed. However, my Sunday Thought > > suggested that the predominant tattwa in the chart would decide your > > future birth. What is being put forth is the premise that for moksha, > > or for an " ethereal " existence, what is necessary is not the negation > > of pancha tattwa but an equilibrium of pancha tattwa. They need to > > be present in equal proportions. Then Earth & Water, Fire & Air (the > > well-known Jyotish principle of oppoition) neutralise each other, > > leaving out Ether. If soul is not pure Ether & Bliss, then what else > > is it? > > > > Birth (s) would occur whenever there is an imbalance of tattwa and > > would continue till the equilibrium point is regained. A soul, all > > through the successive births, would continue to be associated with > > the same thread of a dominant tattwa till it is neutralised. > > > > For example, in Gurudeva Sanjay Rath's chart, the ascendants in D- 1, > > D-9, and D-60 are all water signs. He was also born in moon hora. It > > is the association of his AK with Bhoo-tattwa or Mercury that is > > pulling him back to earth again and again. Not bad for all of us at > > all J > > > > In my chart there is predominance of agni tattwa, and indications > > are that I have had the same tattwa predominant even in my previous > > births. I was born in sun hora and my ascendant in D-1, Karakamsa > > (Leo) are both fiery signs and though navamsa lagna {Scorpio - ruled > > by Mars (AK)}and D-60 lagna (Pisces) are watery signs, they are not > > without influence of fire (Sun in Pisces). This point perhaps can be > > verified with more charts. > > > > Here, by the word " birth " I do not mean only human beings. There are > > many Beings in the universe, who are not visible to the human eye, > > but which do exist nonetheless. The soul gets a visible form when > > prithwi tattwa is fairly strong. > > > > If you peruse the charts of Sri Rama and Sri Krishna, what is > > apparent is the strength of sattwa guna (Sun, Moon and Jupiter very > > strong in the charts). > > > > An examination of the successive births of Jaya & Vijaya as > > Hiranyaksa & Hiranyakashyapa, Ravana & Kumbhakarna, Sisupala & > > Dantavaktra, and their traits, I think, aptly illustrates this point. > > From the above examples it is also apparent that the potency of the > > tattwa is progessively weakening over successive births. In the first > > birth, the Lord had to incarnate twice to tackle the Asuras, while in > > the case of Ravana and Kumbhakarna, the latter was more of a sleeping > > partner and the cause for which the Lord incarnated was much bigger > > than termination of the two. In the third case Sisupala and > > Dantavaktra cease to be the main villains altogether. > > > > I am aware that whatever I have put forth will have a thousand > > mistakes. Whatever is said may not be news to the learned people on > > the lists, but for me it is indeed a new perspective. In this process > > of digesting the information, if I am sounding incoherent or fail to > > make sense, then perhaps it is my failure to properly grasp & > > communicate what was told to me. And, retro Mercury is certainly not > > helping my cause! Some research perhaps can be carried out to test > > the truth of the above. If some study has already been conducted in > > this area, I would be very much interested in knowing the findings. > > > > Thanks for your time. > > > > Regards, > > Lakshmi > > > > > > Kirti Simha <kingkirti> > > Wed Apr 28, 2004 10:23 am > > Re: [sJC: Achyuta Gurukul] PurvaJanma Links: Relation of > > Ninth Lord with Rahu-Ketu Axis for unfinished agenda > > > > Dear Pankaj, > > > > > Statement : > > > " In a birth chart the Planets caught in Rahu-Ketu > > > axis > > > are indicative of the past life ninth lord and > > > unfinished tasks > > > of the past life. " > > > > Does this mean we can use this concept to verify > > accuracy of birthtime too by looking at the D- 60 > > lagna. Meaning that the ninth lord from the D-60 lagna > > should also be the same planet? > > > > Regards, > > > > Kirti > > > > > > > > > > > > |Om Tat Sat| > > http://www.varahamihira > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2004 Report Share Posted April 29, 2004 Om Gurave Namah Namaste Freedom, Great to hear from you. My answers follow. Now, when I have stated that the tattwas need to be balanced, I am talking about Equilibrium, harmony, right? Here I have not used the word " balance " as a synonym of " remnant " . Balancing of tattwas is more of an involuntary act of nature, and best left to it. Perhaps it is also possible for some evolved human beings, those who transcend the barriers of self and become one with nature. Remember the 7th sign of zodiac, It is Libra, the sign of balance. When you achieve THAT, then you overcome the innumerable births. That's the true END. Freedom, this balance of pancha tattwas I was talking about, it is not a novel concept. It is there everywhere in the Universe. What prevents the planets from crashing into one another? Why don't all the stars come tumbling down? Why doesn't the moon crash into the Earth? Because there is a balance in the Universe. There is an unseen Equilibrium, call it magnetic force, gravity, whatever, that ensures that fine balance. As is with the outer universe, so is the case with inner universe. A perfectly balanced soul has a harmonious blend of all the pancha tattwas. When Ajit stated that all three gunas are present in every one, I was very happy, because that's what I was precisely driving at. In a great soul, do you mean to say that rajas and tamas are totally absent? What do you find in Rama's chart? The rajasik and tamasic planets are quite strong themselves. Then what made Him a such noble soul and the Maryada Purushottama? It is the neutralization of rajas and tamas gunas and Sattwa alone shone through like a beacon providing succour to the mankind. In Bhagavadgita too, Sri Krishna repeatedly talks about an inner balance, which enables a yogi to stay in a state of Bliss, impervious to pleasure and pain, nay, infact, to all external influences. " Sama " is a word often repeated in Bhagavadgita. I know that both Ajit and you are wondering why I was taking into account only the sub-tamasic aspect of Prakriti. It is known that it is in the tamasic aspect of Prakriti, the tanmatras and the panchabhutas originate. This echelon is finest one can get to (grossification happens mostly at lower levels) because there are no further sub divisions after that. The ball stops here. So, if tamasic karma causes rebirth through rajas, then the root cause for such karma must lie here…in this root. It is at this level of pancha bhutas, at this level of tanmatras that the basic cause for grossification is created. When we are trying to increase sattwa or decrease tamas, what we are doing is to indirectly percolate it to pancha tattwa, so as to rectify the imbalance. Because if balance is achieved at this level, reconciliation can be automatically effected at all the upper levels. As a banker, I have seen it happen at the mundane level. Why can't it happen in spiritual realm? If the concept of double entry book-keeping can be relevant for reckoning punya and papa, then this also must hold good. After all, gunas and tattwas are very much inter related, and what affects one is bound to affect the other. Ofcourse Parasara had said that Sun, Moon and Jupiter are the sattwa planets. He also talked about the importance of sun's strength for initiation of yogas..all beginnings are basically rajasik in nature, and Sun being the original Initiator is definitely rajasik in sattwa. Moon, perpetuates or sustains the beginning, it continues in this state of perpetuation (inertia – a property of Tamas) till a " force " causes it to stop it.. By the way, why did the Sage club Jupiter along with the luminaries to signify sattwa among the planets? Why is it not Mercury, who signifies Vishnu, the embodiment of sattwa? In Vibhuti yoga, Sri Krishna talks of his " vibhuti " in various classes of Beings. He says among asuras He's Prahlada, indicating that the latter is the most saattwik of the tamoguni asuras and so on. And the reverse logic is also true. Aren't there tamasic beings among Devas and rishis? This gradation is there in creation itself and is supported by the Lord Himself. Anyway, do you honestly feel that the agni tattwa signified by Mars and Sun is the same? That there is no qualitative difference whatsoever? Freedom, it might sound rather unconvincing, but I HAVE NOT BEEN MEDITATING ON TATTWAS AT ALL. OR ABOUT THE BIRTH CYCLE. OR ANY THING EVEN REMOTELY METAPHYSICAL. I was too busy pandering to the un- philosophical and practical, but thoroughly enjoyable, aspects of life:-)) That's why I was so perplexed about the whole thing, when this concept jumped at me from nowhere. And believe me I did my best to push/put it away. But it wouldn't go. It just wouldn't go. One strange thing though, I have been dreaming repeatedly about Guruji. Perhaps, what he was teaching to all of you lucky guys in person, somehow got communicated to me too, nevermind if it is a hopelessly garbled version:--)) Because though I am miles away, I am sure his guidance is there always with me….especially, when I am as muddled as of now. About my dreams….they always come true. Regards, Lakshmi varahamihira , " Freedom " <freedom@s...> wrote: > Hare Rama Krsna > > Talking about tattvas, in Ayurveda the constitution is made up of the 5 > elements (often made into three vata, pitta, kapha). It is very important > not to see one constitution as better than the other. It is more our being > able to balance what we are. To live in tune with the constitution that we > are is the best. So I would think that maybe trying to balance the tattvas > isn't the best way to work with them, maybe seeing what tattvas are > predominant, seeing the negative tendencies of that and living so we bring > out the highest aspect of our self. Those differences in tattvas make us who > we are, we are all individuals. Health is achieved through creating harmony > with the tattvas that make us what we are (not the balance of tattvas), so > would liberation not have a similar flavor. > > You mentioned " What happens at the time of Pralaya is a totally different > thing altogether. " I would say that it is not different at all, as above so > below. The stories of creation and dissolution have the secret to the > creation of the mind and its dissolution hidden within them, bondage and > moksa. > > Ajit hit some key points. In samkya philosophy look at where the tattvas > finally manifest. My yoga guru taught that Samkya is the Science and Yoga > its practical application. When we understand the creation we can go > backwards to understand how yoga takes us back to the source. Look also at > how much Krsna talks of tattvas in the Gita, there is much more talk of the > Gunas relative to liberation. Someone living in sattva, is able to be in > 'harmony' with their tattvas. An ayurveda example, a vata constitution has a > harder time sleeping, they should not take stimulants in the evening. A > sattvic person will not, a rajasic or tamasic person will drink coffee and > imbalance themselves. A kapha constitution needs to exercise and avoid too > much dairy, a sattvic person will naturally listen to the body and do this, > a tamasic person will sit around and eat ice cream all day, creating big > imbalance in the kapha person (an activity that may not imbalance a vata > person). You have a predominance of agni tattva, in Sattva that will come > out as a high level of perceptive ability, in rajas it will come out as an > over controlling nature, in tamas it will manifest as anger and action > associated with anger and angst. So is the tattva the key liberating factor > or is it, the guna through which the primary tattva is manifesting. I agree > tattva is a very fundamental concept to be studied, but how and where it is > applied must be appropriate. > > The Gita is very clear how the gunas relate to rebirth, in the area of > chapter 14. > > I'm not sure why you call the Sun tamasic and Moon rajasic, Parashara says > clearly: > > jIvsUyeRNÔv> sÅv< buxzu³aE rjStwa, > sUyRpuÇÉrapuÇaE tm>àk«itkaE iÖj. 22. > > jévasüryendravaù sattvaà budhaçukrau rajastathä | > süryaputrabharäputrau tamaùprakåtikau dvija ||3. 22|| > > Jupiter and Sun and Moon are sattvic, Mercury and Venus are rajasic, Saturn > and Mars are tamasic, they give the results for all that manifests. > > " But what causes karma? It is the thought behind the action. What causes the > > thought? It is the imbalance or the disturbance caused in the tattwas. " > In Ayurveda school, I was taught that for the health of the body we look at > tattvas, for the health of the mind we look at gunas. Much of Ayurvedic > psychology is based on increasing the sattva of the mind. > " From sattva knowledge is born, and desire from rajas, > Confusion and delusion arise from tamas and ignorance as well " . (Gita > XIV.17) > Parasara lists the gunas of the planets and then says, this gives the > results for all that manifests (prakåtikau). > > Laksmi, > I have been meditating on the tattvas recently as well. Especially the point > of the Mahapurusha yogas from the 5 planets connected to the tattvas. On the > 5 calculations of longevity (Sanjay generally teaches the three pairs, but > he has mentioned there are 5, one for each tattva). On the signs being ruled > by tattvas, how aspects can be good or bad due to the tattva. And > particularly on the pancha upacharya puja and the pancha devata. > The tattva gyana and the material world, which is manifesting. I have heard > you are a heavy dreamer, so I am sure you meditate upon the ephemeral nature > of the material plane, how thin the physical reality is. How else could > remedies work if the elements weren't subtle and able to change, and change > through propitiations. I have been meditating on how alive the 5 tattvas > are, somewhat relative to the panchadevata. How each element we are composed > of is the form of the devata. The akash tattva, pervading our bodies mind > and environment, and your ability to create harmony everywhere by creating > harmony in that akash tattva. I'm not going anywhere logical, these are just > my own meditations: ) > > Namah Sivaya > > > B Lakshmi Ramesh [b_lakshmi_ramesh] > Wednesday, April 28, 2004 11:24 PM > varahamihira > Re: |Sri Varaha| Tattwa Gyana > > > Om Gurave Namah > > Dear Ajit, > > Namaste. Thanks for your thought provoking response and > encouragement. It matters a great deal because I penned my previous > mail with a lot of trepidition. Trying to think up answers to the > questions you have raised is indeed going to be very educative for > me. > > What you have pointed out about gunas and their interaction in > creation is so very true, but why did you say that equivalence at the > level of tattwas is virtually impossible? Have we not seen matter > exist in three states simultaneously? All tattwas can co-exist in > equal measure even though they cascade from one another. Existence / > derivation of one tattwa does not mean negation of another. It does > not mean assimilation/mutation of one tattwa into another either. > What I was talking about is that rare harmony which pervades the > Living Universe…a harmony called Vishnu. What happens at the time of > Pralaya is a totally different thing altogether. > > While talking about gunas and assigning them to planets, I hark back > to a mail I had written on Srijagannath List around 2 years back. > Talking about sattwik planets themselves, are Jupiter, Sun and Moon > equally sattwik? Isn't Sun slightly more Rajasik (naturally he is the > King) and Moon the more Tamasic one (the reactive planet) and Jupiter > is the only truly sattwik planet? So is the case with Rajasik & > tamasik planets, which are primarily responsible for > grossification. Now, what causes these finer distinctions? It is > the essential tattwa of the planet. > > Yes, it is the grossification of karma that causes birth. But what > causes karma? It is the thought behind the action. What causes the > thought? It is the imbalance or the disturbance caused in the > tattwas. What triggers the imbalance? It could be as innocuous as > the, perhaps, routine arrival of Sanaka & company at the golden gates > of Vaikuntha. Here, the fault is not with the trigger, but with the > unusual reaction of the door-keepers. Anyway, if this kind of > imbalance can happen to privileged people like Jaya & Vijaya, who are > forever in the glorious presence of the Great Equilibrium, then what > can we say about folks like us? hence, punarapi jananam punarapi > maranam... > > Regards, > Lakshmi > > varahamihira , " Ajit Krishnan " <astro@m...> > wrote: > > .. hamsasso.aham .. > > > > Dear Lakshmi, > > > > Hope you don't mind if I interject a few thoughts on the subject. > > > > If you look at the description of creation, one theme stands out > clearly : > > grossification has a very strong link to the gunas. Sattwa guna > gives rise > > to the least amount of grossification, rajas to a little bit more, > and tamas > > gives rise to the greatest grossification. > > > > Purusha when associated with sattwa guna gives rise to Ishwara, who > is > > subject to the least amount of grossification, but when subject to > the other > > two gunas, gives rise to avidya, or grossification in the form of a > causal > > body. Again, the causal body when associated with sattwa and rajas > give rise > > to some of the subtler koshas, but when subject to tamas, gives > rise to the > > gross body. > > > > From the tamas aspect of prakriti come the subtle tattwas, and from > the > > tamas aspect of these subtle tattwas, there occurs grossification > of the > > tattwas through the process of panchikarana, where the tattwas > literally > > combine with one another (Thus, any physical substance, including > bodies is > > made up of all three gunas. Every sinner indeed has a sattwic > aspect to > > them.) > > > > The karmic control planets are the planets with predominating > tamas, as they > > cause a quick manifestation or grossification of the karma that was > > previously of a subtler nature. This is also a part of why curses > manifest > > during the watch of tamasic planets. Thus, the remedy is the > worship of > > sattwic planets that influence the tamasic planets in some way, > allowing > > karmas (both " good " and " bad " ) to remain in their seed form until > one > > becomes a gyani. > > > > An equivalence at the level of tattwas is, strictly speaking, > > impossible...because each tattwa is a grossified version of another > one. > > Prithivi is formed from Apah, Apah from Agni, Agni from Vayu, and > Vayu from > > Akasha. Akasha is all-pervading (even in the other tattwas)...this > is true > > by definition. > > > > Your thoughts were most intruiging, and I hope you write up more of > them. > > > > There is a relationship between birth and imbalance in tattwas, but > I don't > > think the relationship is one of causation. When a grossification > of karma > > occurs, we call this " process " of taking up of a body (aka taking up > > imbalanced tattwas) as birth. Thus, the gita teaches us to remain > ever > > steadfast in sattwa guna (i.e. get out of this cycle of rebirth, > or, get out > > this cycle of grossification). > > > > ajit > > > > > > > > > > B Lakshmi Ramesh [b_lakshmi_ramesh] > > > Wednesday, April 28, 2004 1:28 AM > > > varahamihira > > > |Sri Varaha| Tattwa Gyana > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > Namaste All, > > > > > > The following few lines rekindled the following thought process > that > > > started a few Sundays back. I have been trying to stifle the same, > > > desperately, due partially to paucity of time but mostly to > > > intellectual inertia. I was also afraid of tying up myself in > endless > > > knots after raking up this subject. Well, watch me do it now! > > > > > > One Sunday I woke up with a startling Thought. You know very well > > > that Sun is my 9th lord and I guess on Sundays my Sub- > /Unconscious is > > > extra active, suggesting certain strange things, which I feel, I > can > > > very well do without. Sun is also my Karakamsa Lord and is in D- 60 > > > lagna, so the connection to past is clear, so what is being > suggested > > > perhaps has some unknown historical basis. Whatever. > > > > > > Whenever there is a discussion on rebirth, the active connection > of > > > the nodes to rebirth is avidly discussed. However, my Sunday > Thought > > > suggested that the predominant tattwa in the chart would decide > your > > > future birth. What is being put forth is the premise that for > moksha, > > > or for an " ethereal " existence, what is necessary is not the > negation > > > of pancha tattwa but an equilibrium of pancha tattwa. They need > to > > > be present in equal proportions. Then Earth & Water, Fire & Air > (the > > > well-known Jyotish principle of oppoition) neutralise each other, > > > leaving out Ether. If soul is not pure Ether & Bliss, then what > else > > > is it? > > > > > > Birth (s) would occur whenever there is an imbalance of tattwa and > > > would continue till the equilibrium point is regained. A soul, all > > > through the successive births, would continue to be associated > with > > > the same thread of a dominant tattwa till it is neutralised. > > > > > > For example, in Gurudeva Sanjay Rath's chart, the ascendants in D- > 1, > > > D-9, and D-60 are all water signs. He was also born in moon hora. > It > > > is the association of his AK with Bhoo-tattwa or Mercury that is > > > pulling him back to earth again and again. Not bad for all of us > at > > > all J > > > > > > In my chart there is predominance of agni tattwa, and indications > > > are that I have had the same tattwa predominant even in my > previous > > > births. I was born in sun hora and my ascendant in D-1, Karakamsa > > > (Leo) are both fiery signs and though navamsa lagna {Scorpio - > ruled > > > by Mars (AK)}and D-60 lagna (Pisces) are watery signs, they are > not > > > without influence of fire (Sun in Pisces). This point perhaps can > be > > > verified with more charts. > > > > > > Here, by the word " birth " I do not mean only human beings. There > are > > > many Beings in the universe, who are not visible to the human eye, > > > but which do exist nonetheless. The soul gets a visible form when > > > prithwi tattwa is fairly strong. > > > > > > If you peruse the charts of Sri Rama and Sri Krishna, what is > > > apparent is the strength of sattwa guna (Sun, Moon and Jupiter > very > > > strong in the charts). > > > > > > An examination of the successive births of Jaya & Vijaya as > > > Hiranyaksa & Hiranyakashyapa, Ravana & Kumbhakarna, Sisupala & > > > Dantavaktra, and their traits, I think, aptly illustrates this > point. > > > From the above examples it is also apparent that the potency of > the > > > tattwa is progessively weakening over successive births. In the > first > > > birth, the Lord had to incarnate twice to tackle the Asuras, > while in > > > the case of Ravana and Kumbhakarna, the latter was more of a > sleeping > > > partner and the cause for which the Lord incarnated was much > bigger > > > than termination of the two. In the third case Sisupala and > > > Dantavaktra cease to be the main villains altogether. > > > > > > I am aware that whatever I have put forth will have a thousand > > > mistakes. Whatever is said may not be news to the learned people > on > > > the lists, but for me it is indeed a new perspective. In this > process > > > of digesting the information, if I am sounding incoherent or fail > to > > > make sense, then perhaps it is my failure to properly grasp & > > > communicate what was told to me. And, retro Mercury is certainly > not > > > helping my cause! Some research perhaps can be carried out to test > > > the truth of the above. If some study has already been conducted > in > > > this area, I would be very much interested in knowing the > findings. > > > > > > Thanks for your time. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > Kirti Simha <kingkirti> > > > Wed Apr 28, 2004 10:23 am > > > Re: [sJC: Achyuta Gurukul] PurvaJanma Links: Relation of > > > Ninth Lord with Rahu-Ketu Axis for unfinished agenda > > > > > > Dear Pankaj, > > > > > > > Statement : > > > > " In a birth chart the Planets caught in Rahu-Ketu > > > > axis > > > > are indicative of the past life ninth lord and > > > > unfinished tasks > > > > of the past life. " > > > > > > Does this mean we can use this concept to verify > > > accuracy of birthtime too by looking at the D- 60 > > > lagna. Meaning that the ninth lord from the D-60 lagna > > > should also be the same planet? > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Kirti > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > |Om Tat Sat| > > > http://www.varahamihira > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2004 Report Share Posted April 29, 2004 Hare Rama Krsna Relative to your dreams, yes, Sanjay has been teaching lots about the tattvas, especially relative to the Charakarakas, and Karakamsa. You'll have to wait for his next book for all that though. " Of course Parasara had said that Sun, Moon and Jupiter are the sattwa planets. He also talked about the importance of sun's strength for initiation of yogas..all beginnings are basically rajasik in nature, and Sun being the original Initiator is definitely rajasik in sattwa. " The fact that the grahas have physical bodies in the sky shows that they are composed of all three gunas. Parasara is speaking of the predominating guna and its effects. Venus (procreation) and Mercury (business) are the primary rajas in the physical plane. Yes there are sub divisions within the Gunas, look at the Naksatras, they are each given a guna, sub guna, and antar guna. Every planet can have a rajasic effect (can start something), but that may not be its primary signification. Why does the Sun ignite a raja yoga, not because it is rajas. The Planets are all contained in the rasis which are ruled by the Sun, the dwadashaditya give the fruits for everything. When the Sun is strong, the 12 adityas have the strength to give you the fruits indicated in the chart (which are already there). The ability to give what is already there, the raj yogas cannot be initiated if there is no support from that sattvic aspect of the 33 devas. " Moon, perpetuates or sustains the beginning, it continues in this state of perpetuation (inertia – a property of Tamas) till a " force " causes it to stop it.. " Correct, Moon sustains the beginning, this is a factor of sattva- Visnu the sustainer. It is not inertia, it is giving just enough and not too much so that life has the perfect balance. The Moon will sustain continually this balance (sattva) until it is stopped by Tamas (Shiva the 'force' of destruction). " By the way, why did the Sage club Jupiter along with the luminaries to signify sattwa among the planets? Why is it not Mercury, who signifies Vishnu, the embodiment of sattwa? " Wonderful question. Harihara says Jupiter is God in all signs. Jupiter represents the highest level of Visnu, so high that name is just a pointer. Call him Visnu, Jagannath, SambaSadashiva, the highest aspect you can imagine. Mercury, is rajas and differentiating. He represents the incarnations of Visnu, when Visnu takes form so that we can try to grasp/connect to Visnu. The Gunas are present in everyone, but knowledge comes from Sattva. Krsna teaches to increase the sattva guna to gain the knowledge to transcend even the gunas. The Sama that is talked about is the equilibrium that comes from Sattva, not the tattvas. Where do you find Krsna talking of tattvas, He is clear what causes bondage, and how to get out. Sanjay considers the Gita as a core text in our understanding of Jyotish. " Anyway, do you honestly feel that the agni tattwa signified by Mars and Sun is the same? That there is no qualitative difference whatsoever? " No, not the same at all. There are only 5 mahapurusha yogas, related to the Panchatattva. mars is the significator of Agni tattva. As Venus relates to Jala tattva. The Sun is the essence of agni as Moon is the essence of jala, they are on a much higher level. We often throw them in with the panchatattva for certain techniques, but the 5 tattvas are ruled by five planets only. This supports again the Sattvic aspect of the three sattvic grahas, that Jupiter is the all pervading Akash, and the Sun and Moon are relative to the higher aspects of Prakritti. If you doubt this at all, first please read some of Sanjay's writings on the Janaka Sadakshari mantra. The mantra Hare (Jupiter) Rama (Sun) Krsna (Moon), which removes all badhana, and opens up the eyes. Namah Sivaya B Lakshmi Ramesh [b_lakshmi_ramesh] Thursday, April 29, 2004 1:32 PM varahamihira Re: |Sri Varaha| Tattwa Gyana Om Gurave Namah Namaste Freedom, Great to hear from you. My answers follow. Now, when I have stated that the tattwas need to be balanced, I am talking about Equilibrium, harmony, right? Here I have not used the word " balance " as a synonym of " remnant " . Balancing of tattwas is more of an involuntary act of nature, and best left to it. Perhaps it is also possible for some evolved human beings, those who transcend the barriers of self and become one with nature. Remember the 7th sign of zodiac, It is Libra, the sign of balance. When you achieve THAT, then you overcome the innumerable births. That's the true END. Freedom, this balance of pancha tattwas I was talking about, it is not a novel concept. It is there everywhere in the Universe. What prevents the planets from crashing into one another? Why don't all the stars come tumbling down? Why doesn't the moon crash into the Earth? Because there is a balance in the Universe. There is an unseen Equilibrium, call it magnetic force, gravity, whatever, that ensures that fine balance. As is with the outer universe, so is the case with inner universe. A perfectly balanced soul has a harmonious blend of all the pancha tattwas. When Ajit stated that all three gunas are present in every one, I was very happy, because that's what I was precisely driving at. In a great soul, do you mean to say that rajas and tamas are totally absent? What do you find in Rama's chart? The rajasik and tamasic planets are quite strong themselves. Then what made Him a such noble soul and the Maryada Purushottama? It is the neutralization of rajas and tamas gunas and Sattwa alone shone through like a beacon providing succour to the mankind. In Bhagavadgita too, Sri Krishna repeatedly talks about an inner balance, which enables a yogi to stay in a state of Bliss, impervious to pleasure and pain, nay, infact, to all external influences. " Sama " is a word often repeated in Bhagavadgita. I know that both Ajit and you are wondering why I was taking into account only the sub-tamasic aspect of Prakriti. It is known that it is in the tamasic aspect of Prakriti, the tanmatras and the panchabhutas originate. This echelon is finest one can get to (grossification happens mostly at lower levels) because there are no further sub divisions after that. The ball stops here. So, if tamasic karma causes rebirth through rajas, then the root cause for such karma must lie here…in this root. It is at this level of pancha bhutas, at this level of tanmatras that the basic cause for grossification is created. When we are trying to increase sattwa or decrease tamas, what we are doing is to indirectly percolate it to pancha tattwa, so as to rectify the imbalance. Because if balance is achieved at this level, reconciliation can be automatically effected at all the upper levels. As a banker, I have seen it happen at the mundane level. Why can't it happen in spiritual realm? If the concept of double entry book-keeping can be relevant for reckoning punya and papa, then this also must hold good. After all, gunas and tattwas are very much inter related, and what affects one is bound to affect the other. Ofcourse Parasara had said that Sun, Moon and Jupiter are the sattwa planets. He also talked about the importance of sun's strength for initiation of yogas..all beginnings are basically rajasik in nature, and Sun being the original Initiator is definitely rajasik in sattwa. Moon, perpetuates or sustains the beginning, it continues in this state of perpetuation (inertia – a property of Tamas) till a " force " causes it to stop it.. By the way, why did the Sage club Jupiter along with the luminaries to signify sattwa among the planets? Why is it not Mercury, who signifies Vishnu, the embodiment of sattwa? In Vibhuti yoga, Sri Krishna talks of his " vibhuti " in various classes of Beings. He says among asuras He's Prahlada, indicating that the latter is the most saattwik of the tamoguni asuras and so on. And the reverse logic is also true. Aren't there tamasic beings among Devas and rishis? This gradation is there in creation itself and is supported by the Lord Himself. Anyway, do you honestly feel that the agni tattwa signified by Mars and Sun is the same? That there is no qualitative difference whatsoever? Freedom, it might sound rather unconvincing, but I HAVE NOT BEEN MEDITATING ON TATTWAS AT ALL. OR ABOUT THE BIRTH CYCLE. OR ANY THING EVEN REMOTELY METAPHYSICAL. I was too busy pandering to the un- philosophical and practical, but thoroughly enjoyable, aspects of life:-)) That's why I was so perplexed about the whole thing, when this concept jumped at me from nowhere. And believe me I did my best to push/put it away. But it wouldn't go. It just wouldn't go. One strange thing though, I have been dreaming repeatedly about Guruji. Perhaps, what he was teaching to all of you lucky guys in person, somehow got communicated to me too, nevermind if it is a hopelessly garbled version:--)) Because though I am miles away, I am sure his guidance is there always with me….especially, when I am as muddled as of now. About my dreams….they always come true. Regards, Lakshmi varahamihira , " Freedom " <freedom@s...> wrote: > Hare Rama Krsna > > Talking about tattvas, in Ayurveda the constitution is made up of the 5 > elements (often made into three vata, pitta, kapha). It is very important > not to see one constitution as better than the other. It is more our being > able to balance what we are. To live in tune with the constitution that we > are is the best. So I would think that maybe trying to balance the tattvas > isn't the best way to work with them, maybe seeing what tattvas are > predominant, seeing the negative tendencies of that and living so we bring > out the highest aspect of our self. Those differences in tattvas make us who > we are, we are all individuals. Health is achieved through creating harmony > with the tattvas that make us what we are (not the balance of tattvas), so > would liberation not have a similar flavor. > > You mentioned " What happens at the time of Pralaya is a totally different > thing altogether. " I would say that it is not different at all, as above so > below. The stories of creation and dissolution have the secret to the > creation of the mind and its dissolution hidden within them, bondage and > moksa. > > Ajit hit some key points. In samkya philosophy look at where the tattvas > finally manifest. My yoga guru taught that Samkya is the Science and Yoga > its practical application. When we understand the creation we can go > backwards to understand how yoga takes us back to the source. Look also at > how much Krsna talks of tattvas in the Gita, there is much more talk of the > Gunas relative to liberation. Someone living in sattva, is able to be in > 'harmony' with their tattvas. An ayurveda example, a vata constitution has a > harder time sleeping, they should not take stimulants in the evening. A > sattvic person will not, a rajasic or tamasic person will drink coffee and > imbalance themselves. A kapha constitution needs to exercise and avoid too > much dairy, a sattvic person will naturally listen to the body and do this, > a tamasic person will sit around and eat ice cream all day, creating big > imbalance in the kapha person (an activity that may not imbalance a vata > person). You have a predominance of agni tattva, in Sattva that will come > out as a high level of perceptive ability, in rajas it will come out as an > over controlling nature, in tamas it will manifest as anger and action > associated with anger and angst. So is the tattva the key liberating factor > or is it, the guna through which the primary tattva is manifesting. I agree > tattva is a very fundamental concept to be studied, but how and where it is > applied must be appropriate. > > The Gita is very clear how the gunas relate to rebirth, in the area of > chapter 14. > > I'm not sure why you call the Sun tamasic and Moon rajasic, Parashara says > clearly: > > jIvsUyeRNÔv> sÅv< buxzu³aE rjStwa, > sUyRpuÇÉrapuÇaE tm>àk«itkaE iÖj. 22. > > jévasüryendravaù sattvaà budhaçukrau rajastathä | > süryaputrabharäputrau tamaùprakåtikau dvija ||3. 22|| > > Jupiter and Sun and Moon are sattvic, Mercury and Venus are rajasic, Saturn > and Mars are tamasic, they give the results for all that manifests. > > " But what causes karma? It is the thought behind the action. What causes the > > thought? It is the imbalance or the disturbance caused in the tattwas. " > In Ayurveda school, I was taught that for the health of the body we look at > tattvas, for the health of the mind we look at gunas. Much of Ayurvedic > psychology is based on increasing the sattva of the mind. > " From sattva knowledge is born, and desire from rajas, > Confusion and delusion arise from tamas and ignorance as well " . (Gita > XIV.17) > Parasara lists the gunas of the planets and then says, this gives the > results for all that manifests (prakåtikau). > > Laksmi, > I have been meditating on the tattvas recently as well. Especially the point > of the Mahapurusha yogas from the 5 planets connected to the tattvas. On the > 5 calculations of longevity (Sanjay generally teaches the three pairs, but > he has mentioned there are 5, one for each tattva). On the signs being ruled > by tattvas, how aspects can be good or bad due to the tattva. And > particularly on the pancha upacharya puja and the pancha devata. > The tattva gyana and the material world, which is manifesting. I have heard > you are a heavy dreamer, so I am sure you meditate upon the ephemeral nature > of the material plane, how thin the physical reality is. How else could > remedies work if the elements weren't subtle and able to change, and change > through propitiations. I have been meditating on how alive the 5 tattvas > are, somewhat relative to the panchadevata. How each element we are composed > of is the form of the devata. The akash tattva, pervading our bodies mind > and environment, and your ability to create harmony everywhere by creating > harmony in that akash tattva. I'm not going anywhere logical, these are just > my own meditations: ) > > Namah Sivaya > > > B Lakshmi Ramesh [b_lakshmi_ramesh] > Wednesday, April 28, 2004 11:24 PM > varahamihira > Re: |Sri Varaha| Tattwa Gyana > > > Om Gurave Namah > > Dear Ajit, > > Namaste. Thanks for your thought provoking response and > encouragement. It matters a great deal because I penned my previous > mail with a lot of trepidition. Trying to think up answers to the > questions you have raised is indeed going to be very educative for > me. > > What you have pointed out about gunas and their interaction in > creation is so very true, but why did you say that equivalence at the > level of tattwas is virtually impossible? Have we not seen matter > exist in three states simultaneously? All tattwas can co-exist in > equal measure even though they cascade from one another. Existence / > derivation of one tattwa does not mean negation of another. It does > not mean assimilation/mutation of one tattwa into another either. > What I was talking about is that rare harmony which pervades the > Living Universe…a harmony called Vishnu. What happens at the time of > Pralaya is a totally different thing altogether. > > While talking about gunas and assigning them to planets, I hark back > to a mail I had written on Srijagannath List around 2 years back. > Talking about sattwik planets themselves, are Jupiter, Sun and Moon > equally sattwik? Isn't Sun slightly more Rajasik (naturally he is the > King) and Moon the more Tamasic one (the reactive planet) and Jupiter > is the only truly sattwik planet? So is the case with Rajasik & > tamasik planets, which are primarily responsible for > grossification. Now, what causes these finer distinctions? It is > the essential tattwa of the planet. > > Yes, it is the grossification of karma that causes birth. But what > causes karma? It is the thought behind the action. What causes the > thought? It is the imbalance or the disturbance caused in the > tattwas. What triggers the imbalance? It could be as innocuous as > the, perhaps, routine arrival of Sanaka & company at the golden gates > of Vaikuntha. Here, the fault is not with the trigger, but with the > unusual reaction of the door-keepers. Anyway, if this kind of > imbalance can happen to privileged people like Jaya & Vijaya, who are > forever in the glorious presence of the Great Equilibrium, then what > can we say about folks like us? hence, punarapi jananam punarapi > maranam... > > Regards, > Lakshmi > > varahamihira , " Ajit Krishnan " <astro@m...> > wrote: > > .. hamsasso.aham .. > > > > Dear Lakshmi, > > > > Hope you don't mind if I interject a few thoughts on the subject. > > > > If you look at the description of creation, one theme stands out > clearly : > > grossification has a very strong link to the gunas. Sattwa guna > gives rise > > to the least amount of grossification, rajas to a little bit more, > and tamas > > gives rise to the greatest grossification. > > > > Purusha when associated with sattwa guna gives rise to Ishwara, who > is > > subject to the least amount of grossification, but when subject to > the other > > two gunas, gives rise to avidya, or grossification in the form of a > causal > > body. Again, the causal body when associated with sattwa and rajas > give rise > > to some of the subtler koshas, but when subject to tamas, gives > rise to the > > gross body. > > > > From the tamas aspect of prakriti come the subtle tattwas, and from > the > > tamas aspect of these subtle tattwas, there occurs grossification > of the > > tattwas through the process of panchikarana, where the tattwas > literally > > combine with one another (Thus, any physical substance, including > bodies is > > made up of all three gunas. Every sinner indeed has a sattwic > aspect to > > them.) > > > > The karmic control planets are the planets with predominating > tamas, as they > > cause a quick manifestation or grossification of the karma that was > > previously of a subtler nature. This is also a part of why curses > manifest > > during the watch of tamasic planets. Thus, the remedy is the > worship of > > sattwic planets that influence the tamasic planets in some way, > allowing > > karmas (both " good " and " bad " ) to remain in their seed form until > one > > becomes a gyani. > > > > An equivalence at the level of tattwas is, strictly speaking, > > impossible...because each tattwa is a grossified version of another > one. > > Prithivi is formed from Apah, Apah from Agni, Agni from Vayu, and > Vayu from > > Akasha. Akasha is all-pervading (even in the other tattwas)...this > is true > > by definition. > > > > Your thoughts were most intruiging, and I hope you write up more of > them. > > > > There is a relationship between birth and imbalance in tattwas, but > I don't > > think the relationship is one of causation. When a grossification > of karma > > occurs, we call this " process " of taking up of a body (aka taking up > > imbalanced tattwas) as birth. Thus, the gita teaches us to remain > ever > > steadfast in sattwa guna (i.e. get out of this cycle of rebirth, > or, get out > > this cycle of grossification). > > > > ajit > > > > > > > > > > B Lakshmi Ramesh [b_lakshmi_ramesh] > > > Wednesday, April 28, 2004 1:28 AM > > > varahamihira > > > |Sri Varaha| Tattwa Gyana > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > Namaste All, > > > > > > The following few lines rekindled the following thought process > that > > > started a few Sundays back. I have been trying to stifle the same, > > > desperately, due partially to paucity of time but mostly to > > > intellectual inertia. I was also afraid of tying up myself in > endless > > > knots after raking up this subject. Well, watch me do it now! > > > > > > One Sunday I woke up with a startling Thought. You know very well > > > that Sun is my 9th lord and I guess on Sundays my Sub- > /Unconscious is > > > extra active, suggesting certain strange things, which I feel, I > can > > > very well do without. Sun is also my Karakamsa Lord and is in D- 60 > > > lagna, so the connection to past is clear, so what is being > suggested > > > perhaps has some unknown historical basis. Whatever. > > > > > > Whenever there is a discussion on rebirth, the active connection > of > > > the nodes to rebirth is avidly discussed. However, my Sunday > Thought > > > suggested that the predominant tattwa in the chart would decide > your > > > future birth. What is being put forth is the premise that for > moksha, > > > or for an " ethereal " existence, what is necessary is not the > negation > > > of pancha tattwa but an equilibrium of pancha tattwa. They need > to > > > be present in equal proportions. Then Earth & Water, Fire & Air > (the > > > well-known Jyotish principle of oppoition) neutralise each other, > > > leaving out Ether. If soul is not pure Ether & Bliss, then what > else > > > is it? > > > > > > Birth (s) would occur whenever there is an imbalance of tattwa and > > > would continue till the equilibrium point is regained. A soul, all > > > through the successive births, would continue to be associated > with > > > the same thread of a dominant tattwa till it is neutralised. > > > > > > For example, in Gurudeva Sanjay Rath's chart, the ascendants in D- > 1, > > > D-9, and D-60 are all water signs. He was also born in moon hora. > It > > > is the association of his AK with Bhoo-tattwa or Mercury that is > > > pulling him back to earth again and again. Not bad for all of us > at > > > all J > > > > > > In my chart there is predominance of agni tattwa, and indications > > > are that I have had the same tattwa predominant even in my > previous > > > births. I was born in sun hora and my ascendant in D-1, Karakamsa > > > (Leo) are both fiery signs and though navamsa lagna {Scorpio - > ruled > > > by Mars (AK)}and D-60 lagna (Pisces) are watery signs, they are > not > > > without influence of fire (Sun in Pisces). This point perhaps can > be > > > verified with more charts. > > > > > > Here, by the word " birth " I do not mean only human beings. There > are > > > many Beings in the universe, who are not visible to the human eye, > > > but which do exist nonetheless. The soul gets a visible form when > > > prithwi tattwa is fairly strong. > > > > > > If you peruse the charts of Sri Rama and Sri Krishna, what is > > > apparent is the strength of sattwa guna (Sun, Moon and Jupiter > very > > > strong in the charts). > > > > > > An examination of the successive births of Jaya & Vijaya as > > > Hiranyaksa & Hiranyakashyapa, Ravana & Kumbhakarna, Sisupala & > > > Dantavaktra, and their traits, I think, aptly illustrates this > point. > > > From the above examples it is also apparent that the potency of > the > > > tattwa is progessively weakening over successive births. In the > first > > > birth, the Lord had to incarnate twice to tackle the Asuras, > while in > > > the case of Ravana and Kumbhakarna, the latter was more of a > sleeping > > > partner and the cause for which the Lord incarnated was much > bigger > > > than termination of the two. In the third case Sisupala and > > > Dantavaktra cease to be the main villains altogether. > > > > > > I am aware that whatever I have put forth will have a thousand > > > mistakes. Whatever is said may not be news to the learned people > on > > > the lists, but for me it is indeed a new perspective. In this > process > > > of digesting the information, if I am sounding incoherent or fail > to > > > make sense, then perhaps it is my failure to properly grasp & > > > communicate what was told to me. And, retro Mercury is certainly > not > > > helping my cause! Some research perhaps can be carried out to test > > > the truth of the above. If some study has already been conducted > in > > > this area, I would be very much interested in knowing the > findings. > > > > > > Thanks for your time. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > Kirti Simha <kingkirti> > > > Wed Apr 28, 2004 10:23 am > > > Re: [sJC: Achyuta Gurukul] PurvaJanma Links: Relation of > > > Ninth Lord with Rahu-Ketu Axis for unfinished agenda > > > > > > Dear Pankaj, > > > > > > > Statement : > > > > " In a birth chart the Planets caught in Rahu-Ketu > > > > axis > > > > are indicative of the past life ninth lord and > > > > unfinished tasks > > > > of the past life. " > > > > > > Does this mean we can use this concept to verify > > > accuracy of birthtime too by looking at the D- 60 > > > lagna. Meaning that the ninth lord from the D-60 lagna > > > should also be the same planet? > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Kirti > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > |Om Tat Sat| > > > http://www.varahamihira > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2004 Report Share Posted April 29, 2004 ... hamsasso.aham .. Dear Lakshmi & Freedom, >> All tattwas can co-exist in equal measure even though they cascade from one another. Existence / derivation of one tattwa does not mean negation of another. It does not mean assimilation/mutation of one tattwa into another either. Talking about the equality of tattwas is like talking about the equality of the gross, subtle and causal bodies. You can talk about it, but it isn’t very meaningful. >> Now, what causes these finer distinctions? It is the essential tattwa of the planet. >> It is known that it is in the tamasic aspect of Prakriti, the tanmatras and the panchabhutas originate The tattwas are not subdivided from the gunas. They are formed from the totality of the three gunas that form prakriti. >> Anyway, if this kind of imbalance can happen to privileged people like Jaya & Vijaya, who are forever in the glorious presence of the Great Equilibrium, then what can we say about folks like us? This gives us two choices. Either (a) Jaya & Vijaya were not totally balanced to begin with, or (b) one can fall down from the presence of what you call the “Great Equilibrium”. We need to reject all notions of heaven as the rishi Mudgala does in the Mahabharata. >> Remember the 7th sign of zodiac, It is Libra, the sign of balance. When you achieve THAT, then you overcome the innumerable births. That's the true END. The balance of Libra is of the nature of “what you sow, you must reap”. When you’re on a see-saw, you are teetering, and any balance achieved is temporary. The end isn’t a balance of karma, it’s an end to its root cause. Pisces, the dual watery sattwic sign of the maharishis ruled by Guru, the 12th sign that is the 9th from the 4th is the true end. >> What prevents the planets from crashing into one another? triguNaatmikaa maayaa. >> In Bhagavadgita too, Sri Krishna repeatedly talks about an inner balance… Yoga, as per “samatvaM yoga uchyate” or sattwa is the first step that cleanses the mind and allows the seeker to continue. It is not the final goal. >> So, if tamasic karma causes rebirth through rajas, then the root cause for such karma must lie here…in this root. Think of it this way: Both rajas and tamas cause “new karmas”, and sattva leaves existing karmas as is. None of them eradicate the root cause. Ishwara, ever residing in sattwa, is unaffected by karma, because he had no association with the upadhis of rajas or tamas in the first place. However, jivas do not have this luxury. Residing in sattva alone does not burn off karmas. To burn them off, they have to be lived by someone in one of the lokas. The alternative is to disown them, by burning off the association to them in the fire of gyana. >> By the way, why did the Sage club Jupiter along with the luminaries to signify sattwa among the planets? Because among the tattwas, each of which are ultimately created from all 3 gunas, akasha is the subtlest tattwa and is least restricted. This is precisely the reason that a Jupiter who is alone in a chart gives a broad outlook about divinity, while a Jupiter who is with a planet will give a more traditional or narrow outlook, depending on the planets he associates with. The splendourous Jupiter who shines all by himself is the real blessing in Gurudeva’s chart. Why are the Sun, Moon and Jupiter classified as being sattwic? Because they signify Purusha, Prakriti and Akasha. Freedom’s points (his mail just got here!) are important and well made. His mails have been a pleasure to read. As he points out, sattwa is used to gain knowledge and balance. But we still need to use this knowledge to leave the bondage that is this world. >> Aren't there tamasic beings among Devas and rishis? You cannot club devas and rishis together. Devas hold a temporary post where they can exhaust previous good karmas. They may end up back in this loka. Rishis, by definition, are tattwa-gyanis who are liberated even when living. Their bodies may be tamasic, but they have no association with their bodies. ajit > > B Lakshmi Ramesh [b_lakshmi_ramesh] > Thursday, April 29, 2004 1:02 AM > varahamihira > Re: |Sri Varaha| Tattwa Gyana > > > Om Gurave Namah > > Namaste Freedom, > > Great to hear from you. My answers follow. > > Now, when I have stated that the tattwas need to be balanced, I am > talking about Equilibrium, harmony, right? Here I have not used the > word " balance " as a synonym of " remnant " . Balancing of tattwas is > more of an involuntary act of nature, and best left to it. Perhaps it > is also possible for some evolved human beings, those who transcend > the barriers of self and become one with nature. Remember the 7th > sign of zodiac, It is Libra, the sign of balance. When you achieve > THAT, then you overcome the innumerable births. That's the true END. > > Freedom, this balance of pancha tattwas I was talking about, it is > not a novel concept. It is there everywhere in the Universe. What > prevents the planets from crashing into one another? Why don't all > the stars come tumbling down? Why doesn't the moon crash into the > Earth? Because there is a balance in the Universe. There is an unseen > Equilibrium, call it magnetic force, gravity, whatever, that ensures > that fine balance. As is with the outer universe, so is the case with > inner universe. A perfectly balanced soul has a harmonious blend of > all the pancha tattwas. > > When Ajit stated that all three gunas are present in every one, I was > very happy, because that's what I was precisely driving at. In a > great soul, do you mean to say that rajas and tamas are totally > absent? What do you find in Rama's chart? The rajasik and tamasic > planets are quite strong themselves. Then what made Him a such noble > soul and the Maryada Purushottama? It is the neutralization of rajas > and tamas gunas and Sattwa alone shone through like a beacon > providing succour to the mankind. In Bhagavadgita too, Sri Krishna > repeatedly talks about an inner balance, which enables a yogi to stay > in a state of Bliss, impervious to pleasure and pain, nay, infact, to > all external influences. " Sama " is a word often repeated in > Bhagavadgita. > > I know that both Ajit and you are wondering why I was taking into > account only the sub-tamasic aspect of Prakriti. It is known that it > is in the tamasic aspect of Prakriti, the tanmatras and the > panchabhutas originate. This echelon is finest one can get to > (grossification happens mostly at lower levels) because there are no > further sub divisions after that. The ball stops here. So, if tamasic > karma causes rebirth through rajas, then the root cause for such > karma must lie here…in this root. It is at this level of pancha > bhutas, at this level of tanmatras that the basic cause for > grossification is created. When we are trying to increase sattwa or > decrease tamas, what we are doing is to indirectly percolate it to > pancha tattwa, so as to rectify the imbalance. Because if balance is > achieved at this level, reconciliation can be automatically effected > at all the upper levels. As a banker, I have seen it happen at the > mundane level. Why can't it happen in spiritual realm? If the concept > of double entry book-keeping can be relevant for reckoning punya and > papa, then this also must hold good. After all, gunas and tattwas are > very much inter related, and what affects one is bound to affect the > other. > > Ofcourse Parasara had said that Sun, Moon and Jupiter are the sattwa > planets. He also talked about the importance of sun's strength for > initiation of yogas..all beginnings are basically rajasik in nature, > and Sun being the original Initiator is definitely rajasik in sattwa. > Moon, perpetuates or sustains the beginning, it continues in this > state of perpetuation (inertia – a property of Tamas) till a " force " > causes it to stop it.. By the way, why did the Sage club Jupiter > along with the luminaries to signify sattwa among the planets? Why is > it not Mercury, who signifies Vishnu, the embodiment of sattwa? > > In Vibhuti yoga, Sri Krishna talks of his " vibhuti " in various > classes of Beings. He says among asuras He's Prahlada, indicating > that the latter is the most saattwik of the tamoguni asuras and so > on. And the reverse logic is also true. Aren't there tamasic beings > among Devas and rishis? This gradation is there in creation itself > and is supported by the Lord Himself. Anyway, do you honestly feel > that the agni tattwa signified by Mars and Sun is the same? That > there is no qualitative difference whatsoever? > > Freedom, it might sound rather unconvincing, but I HAVE NOT BEEN > MEDITATING ON TATTWAS AT ALL. OR ABOUT THE BIRTH CYCLE. OR ANY THING > EVEN REMOTELY METAPHYSICAL. I was too busy pandering to the un- > philosophical and practical, but thoroughly enjoyable, aspects of > life:-)) That's why I was so perplexed about the whole thing, when > this concept jumped at me from nowhere. And believe me I did my best > to push/put it away. But it wouldn't go. It just wouldn't go. > > One strange thing though, I have been dreaming repeatedly about > Guruji. Perhaps, what he was teaching to all of you lucky guys in > person, somehow got communicated to me too, nevermind if it is a > hopelessly garbled version:--)) Because though I am miles away, I am > sure his guidance is there always with me….especially, when I am as > muddled as of now. > > About my dreams….they always come true. > > Regards, > Lakshmi > > varahamihira , " Freedom " <freedom@s...> wrote: > > Hare Rama Krsna > > > > Talking about tattvas, in Ayurveda the constitution is made up of > the 5 > > elements (often made into three vata, pitta, kapha). It is very > important > > not to see one constitution as better than the other. It is more > our being > > able to balance what we are. To live in tune with the constitution > that we > > are is the best. So I would think that maybe trying to balance the > tattvas > > isn't the best way to work with them, maybe seeing what tattvas are > > predominant, seeing the negative tendencies of that and living so > we bring > > out the highest aspect of our self. Those differences in tattvas > make us who > > we are, we are all individuals. Health is achieved through creating > harmony > > with the tattvas that make us what we are (not the balance of > tattvas), so > > would liberation not have a similar flavor. > > > > You mentioned " What happens at the time of Pralaya is a totally > different > > thing altogether. " I would say that it is not different at all, as > above so > > below. The stories of creation and dissolution have the secret to > the > > creation of the mind and its dissolution hidden within them, > bondage and > > moksa. > > > > Ajit hit some key points. In samkya philosophy look at where the > tattvas > > finally manifest. My yoga guru taught that Samkya is the Science > and Yoga > > its practical application. When we understand the creation we can go > > backwards to understand how yoga takes us back to the source. Look > also at > > how much Krsna talks of tattvas in the Gita, there is much more > talk of the > > Gunas relative to liberation. Someone living in sattva, is able to > be in > > 'harmony' with their tattvas. An ayurveda example, a vata > constitution has a > > harder time sleeping, they should not take stimulants in the > evening. A > > sattvic person will not, a rajasic or tamasic person will drink > coffee and > > imbalance themselves. A kapha constitution needs to exercise and > avoid too > > much dairy, a sattvic person will naturally listen to the body and > do this, > > a tamasic person will sit around and eat ice cream all day, > creating big > > imbalance in the kapha person (an activity that may not imbalance a > vata > > person). You have a predominance of agni tattva, in Sattva that > will come > > out as a high level of perceptive ability, in rajas it will come > out as an > > over controlling nature, in tamas it will manifest as anger and > action > > associated with anger and angst. So is the tattva the key > liberating factor > > or is it, the guna through which the primary tattva is manifesting. > I agree > > tattva is a very fundamental concept to be studied, but how and > where it is > > applied must be appropriate. > > > > The Gita is very clear how the gunas relate to rebirth, in the area > of > > chapter 14. > > > > I'm not sure why you call the Sun tamasic and Moon rajasic, > Parashara says > > clearly: > > > > jIvsUyeRNÔv> sÅv< buxzu³aE rjStwa, > > sUyRpuÇÉrapuÇaE tm>àk«itkaE iÖj. 22. > > > > jévasüryendravaù sattvaà budhaçukrau rajastathä | > > süryaputrabharäputrau tamaùprakåtikau dvija ||3. 22|| > > > > Jupiter and Sun and Moon are sattvic, Mercury and Venus are > rajasic, Saturn > > and Mars are tamasic, they give the results for all that manifests. > > > > " But what causes karma? It is the thought behind the action. What > causes the > > > > thought? It is the imbalance or the disturbance caused in the > tattwas. " > > In Ayurveda school, I was taught that for the health of the body we > look at > > tattvas, for the health of the mind we look at gunas. Much of > Ayurvedic > > psychology is based on increasing the sattva of the mind. > > " From sattva knowledge is born, and desire from rajas, > > Confusion and delusion arise from tamas and ignorance as well " . > (Gita > > XIV.17) > > Parasara lists the gunas of the planets and then says, this gives > the > > results for all that manifests (prakåtikau). > > > > Laksmi, > > I have been meditating on the tattvas recently as well. Especially > the point > > of the Mahapurusha yogas from the 5 planets connected to the > tattvas. On the > > 5 calculations of longevity (Sanjay generally teaches the three > pairs, but > > he has mentioned there are 5, one for each tattva). On the signs > being ruled > > by tattvas, how aspects can be good or bad due to the tattva. And > > particularly on the pancha upacharya puja and the pancha devata. > > The tattva gyana and the material world, which is manifesting. I > have heard > > you are a heavy dreamer, so I am sure you meditate upon the > ephemeral nature > > of the material plane, how thin the physical reality is. How else > could > > remedies work if the elements weren't subtle and able to change, > and change > > through propitiations. I have been meditating on how alive the 5 > tattvas > > are, somewhat relative to the panchadevata. How each element we are > composed > > of is the form of the devata. The akash tattva, pervading our > bodies mind > > and environment, and your ability to create harmony everywhere by > creating > > harmony in that akash tattva. I'm not going anywhere logical, these > are just > > my own meditations: ) > > > > Namah Sivaya > > > > > > B Lakshmi Ramesh [b_lakshmi_ramesh] > > Wednesday, April 28, 2004 11:24 PM > > varahamihira > > Re: |Sri Varaha| Tattwa Gyana > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > Dear Ajit, > > > > Namaste. Thanks for your thought provoking response and > > encouragement. It matters a great deal because I penned my previous > > mail with a lot of trepidition. Trying to think up answers to the > > questions you have raised is indeed going to be very educative for > > me. > > > > What you have pointed out about gunas and their interaction in > > creation is so very true, but why did you say that equivalence at > the > > level of tattwas is virtually impossible? Have we not seen matter > > exist in three states simultaneously? All tattwas can co-exist in > > equal measure even though they cascade from one another. > Existence / > > derivation of one tattwa does not mean negation of another. It does > > not mean assimilation/mutation of one tattwa into another either. > > What I was talking about is that rare harmony which pervades the > > Living Universe…a harmony called Vishnu. What happens at the time > of > > Pralaya is a totally different thing altogether. > > > > While talking about gunas and assigning them to planets, I hark > back > > to a mail I had written on Srijagannath List around 2 years back. > > Talking about sattwik planets themselves, are Jupiter, Sun and Moon > > equally sattwik? Isn't Sun slightly more Rajasik (naturally he is > the > > King) and Moon the more Tamasic one (the reactive planet) and > Jupiter > > is the only truly sattwik planet? So is the case with Rajasik & > > tamasik planets, which are primarily responsible for > > grossification. Now, what causes these finer distinctions? It is > > the essential tattwa of the planet. > > > > Yes, it is the grossification of karma that causes birth. But what > > causes karma? It is the thought behind the action. What causes the > > thought? It is the imbalance or the disturbance caused in the > > tattwas. What triggers the imbalance? It could be as innocuous as > > the, perhaps, routine arrival of Sanaka & company at the golden > gates > > of Vaikuntha. Here, the fault is not with the trigger, but with the > > unusual reaction of the door-keepers. Anyway, if this kind of > > imbalance can happen to privileged people like Jaya & Vijaya, who > are > > forever in the glorious presence of the Great Equilibrium, then > what > > can we say about folks like us? hence, punarapi jananam punarapi > > maranam... > > > > Regards, > > Lakshmi > > > > varahamihira , " Ajit Krishnan " <astro@m...> > > wrote: > > > .. hamsasso.aham .. > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi, > > > > > > Hope you don't mind if I interject a few thoughts on the subject. > > > > > > If you look at the description of creation, one theme stands out > > clearly : > > > grossification has a very strong link to the gunas. Sattwa guna > > gives rise > > > to the least amount of grossification, rajas to a little bit > more, > > and tamas > > > gives rise to the greatest grossification. > > > > > > Purusha when associated with sattwa guna gives rise to Ishwara, > who > > is > > > subject to the least amount of grossification, but when subject > to > > the other > > > two gunas, gives rise to avidya, or grossification in the form of > a > > causal > > > body. Again, the causal body when associated with sattwa and > rajas > > give rise > > > to some of the subtler koshas, but when subject to tamas, gives > > rise to the > > > gross body. > > > > > > From the tamas aspect of prakriti come the subtle tattwas, and > from > > the > > > tamas aspect of these subtle tattwas, there occurs grossification > > of the > > > tattwas through the process of panchikarana, where the tattwas > > literally > > > combine with one another (Thus, any physical substance, including > > bodies is > > > made up of all three gunas. Every sinner indeed has a sattwic > > aspect to > > > them.) > > > > > > The karmic control planets are the planets with predominating > > tamas, as they > > > cause a quick manifestation or grossification of the karma that > was > > > previously of a subtler nature. This is also a part of why curses > > manifest > > > during the watch of tamasic planets. Thus, the remedy is the > > worship of > > > sattwic planets that influence the tamasic planets in some way, > > allowing > > > karmas (both " good " and " bad " ) to remain in their seed form until > > one > > > becomes a gyani. > > > > > > An equivalence at the level of tattwas is, strictly speaking, > > > impossible...because each tattwa is a grossified version of > another > > one. > > > Prithivi is formed from Apah, Apah from Agni, Agni from Vayu, and > > Vayu from > > > Akasha. Akasha is all-pervading (even in the other > tattwas)...this > > is true > > > by definition. > > > > > > Your thoughts were most intruiging, and I hope you write up more > of > > them. > > > > > > There is a relationship between birth and imbalance in tattwas, > but > > I don't > > > think the relationship is one of causation. When a grossification > > of karma > > > occurs, we call this " process " of taking up of a body (aka taking > up > > > imbalanced tattwas) as birth. Thus, the gita teaches us to remain > > ever > > > steadfast in sattwa guna (i.e. get out of this cycle of rebirth, > > or, get out > > > this cycle of grossification). > > > > > > ajit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > B Lakshmi Ramesh [b_lakshmi_ramesh] > > > > Wednesday, April 28, 2004 1:28 AM > > > > varahamihira > > > > |Sri Varaha| Tattwa Gyana > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > Namaste All, > > > > > > > > The following few lines rekindled the following thought process > > that > > > > started a few Sundays back. I have been trying to stifle the > same, > > > > desperately, due partially to paucity of time but mostly to > > > > intellectual inertia. I was also afraid of tying up myself in > > endless > > > > knots after raking up this subject. Well, watch me do it now! > > > > > > > > One Sunday I woke up with a startling Thought. You know very > well > > > > that Sun is my 9th lord and I guess on Sundays my Sub- > > /Unconscious is > > > > extra active, suggesting certain strange things, which I feel, > I > > can > > > > very well do without. Sun is also my Karakamsa Lord and is in D- > 60 > > > > lagna, so the connection to past is clear, so what is being > > suggested > > > > perhaps has some unknown historical basis. Whatever. > > > > > > > > Whenever there is a discussion on rebirth, the active > connection > > of > > > > the nodes to rebirth is avidly discussed. However, my Sunday > > Thought > > > > suggested that the predominant tattwa in the chart would decide > > your > > > > future birth. What is being put forth is the premise that for > > moksha, > > > > or for an " ethereal " existence, what is necessary is not the > > negation > > > > of pancha tattwa but an equilibrium of pancha tattwa. They > need > > to > > > > be present in equal proportions. Then Earth & Water, Fire & Air > > (the > > > > well-known Jyotish principle of oppoition) neutralise each > other, > > > > leaving out Ether. If soul is not pure Ether & Bliss, then what > > else > > > > is it? > > > > > > > > Birth (s) would occur whenever there is an imbalance of tattwa > and > > > > would continue till the equilibrium point is regained. A soul, > all > > > > through the successive births, would continue to be associated > > with > > > > the same thread of a dominant tattwa till it is neutralised. > > > > > > > > For example, in Gurudeva Sanjay Rath's chart, the ascendants in > D- > > 1, > > > > D-9, and D-60 are all water signs. He was also born in moon > hora. > > It > > > > is the association of his AK with Bhoo-tattwa or Mercury that is > > > > pulling him back to earth again and again. Not bad for all of > us > > at > > > > all J > > > > > > > > In my chart there is predominance of agni tattwa, and > indications > > > > are that I have had the same tattwa predominant even in my > > previous > > > > births. I was born in sun hora and my ascendant in D-1, > Karakamsa > > > > (Leo) are both fiery signs and though navamsa lagna {Scorpio - > > ruled > > > > by Mars (AK)}and D-60 lagna (Pisces) are watery signs, they are > > not > > > > without influence of fire (Sun in Pisces). This point perhaps > can > > be > > > > verified with more charts. > > > > > > > > Here, by the word " birth " I do not mean only human beings. > There > > are > > > > many Beings in the universe, who are not visible to the human > eye, > > > > but which do exist nonetheless. The soul gets a visible form > when > > > > prithwi tattwa is fairly strong. > > > > > > > > If you peruse the charts of Sri Rama and Sri Krishna, what is > > > > apparent is the strength of sattwa guna (Sun, Moon and Jupiter > > very > > > > strong in the charts). > > > > > > > > An examination of the successive births of Jaya & Vijaya as > > > > Hiranyaksa & Hiranyakashyapa, Ravana & Kumbhakarna, Sisupala & > > > > Dantavaktra, and their traits, I think, aptly illustrates this > > point. > > > > From the above examples it is also apparent that the potency of > > the > > > > tattwa is progessively weakening over successive births. In the > > first > > > > birth, the Lord had to incarnate twice to tackle the Asuras, > > while in > > > > the case of Ravana and Kumbhakarna, the latter was more of a > > sleeping > > > > partner and the cause for which the Lord incarnated was much > > bigger > > > > than termination of the two. In the third case Sisupala and > > > > Dantavaktra cease to be the main villains altogether. > > > > > > > > I am aware that whatever I have put forth will have a thousand > > > > mistakes. Whatever is said may not be news to the learned > people > > on > > > > the lists, but for me it is indeed a new perspective. In this > > process > > > > of digesting the information, if I am sounding incoherent or > fail > > to > > > > make sense, then perhaps it is my failure to properly grasp & > > > > communicate what was told to me. And, retro Mercury is > certainly > > not > > > > helping my cause! Some research perhaps can be carried out to > test > > > > the truth of the above. If some study has already been > conducted > > in > > > > this area, I would be very much interested in knowing the > > findings. > > > > > > > > Thanks for your time. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > Kirti Simha <kingkirti> > > > > Date: Wed Apr 28, 2004 10:23 am > > > > Subject: Re: [sJC: Achyuta Gurukul] PurvaJanma Links: Relation > of > > > > Ninth Lord with Rahu-Ketu Axis for unfinished agenda > > > > > > > > Dear Pankaj, > > > > > > > > > Statement : > > > > > " In a birth chart the Planets caught in Rahu-Ketu > > > > > axis > > > > > are indicative of the past life ninth lord and > > > > > unfinished tasks > > > > > of the past life. " > > > > > > > > Does this mean we can use this concept to verify > > > > accuracy of birthtime too by looking at the D- 60 > > > > lagna. Meaning that the ninth lord from the D-60 lagna > > > > should also be the same planet? > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Kirti > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > |Om Tat Sat| > > > > http://www.varahamihira > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 30, 2004 Report Share Posted April 30, 2004 Om Gurave Namah Dear Freedom, Sorry for my delayed response. I was caught up in some other work and couldn’t respond sooner. ”The fact that the grahas have physical bodies in the sky shows that they arecomposed of all three gunas. Parasara is speaking of the predominating gunaand its effects. Venus (procreation) and Mercury (business) are the primaryrajas in the physical plane. Yes there are sub divisions within the Gunas,look at the Naksatras, they are each given a guna, sub guna, and antar guna.Every planet can have a rajasic effect (can start something), but that maynot be its primary signification.” Venus may hold the promise of procreation, but without the Sun’s strength can it deliver? For assessing the ability to conceive, why should the Arudha pada of 3rd and 9th houses be checked from lagna and Sun? I am quoting verbatim from Varga Chakra “ The Sun being the soul, is vital in bringing another soul to the world”. If there is a flaw in Sun’s placement, then conception itself might get obstructed. This is true both in the cases of male and female charts. It is not only that Sun initiates the soul into the physical world, he initiates it into the spiritual world too. Gayatri mantra-upadesa initiates the “dwija” into the Brahma vidya. Further, among the pancha bhutas, the first tangible/visible one is agni tattwa (ether is intangible and is contained in the other four) and the creation itself originated from the Vishnu Nabhi, or Manipura chakra, which is agni tattwatmika. If Sun is not identified with Light and Agni tattwa, who else will be? Don’t all the examples quoted above show that The Sun is indeed is the tangible beginning? “Correct, Moon sustains the beginning, this is a factor of sattva- Visnu thesustainer. It is not inertia, it is giving just enough and not too much sothat life has the perfect balance. The Moon will sustain continually thisbalance (sattva) until it is stopped by Tamas (Shiva the 'force' ofdestruction).” I think all planets are aspects of the Godhead. There is none that is greater than or less than the other. They all have different tattwas and different roles to play and it’s all part of their brief. And, Moon being the brother of Amrita and Mahalakshmi is definitely the sustainer. Talking about Moon, it is passive, it is not active like the Sun. Only when it is Full and bright, looking like the Sun, it is a total benefic, otherwise a weak moon gets known by the company it keeps. Sattwa, though meek is definitely not weak. It has a lot of inherent strength. It is not easily swayed. This trait of the moon…that gullibility, and those fluctuations are all definitely tamasic. And, please don’t forget that Moon crowns Shiva. ”Wonderful question. Harihara says Jupiter is God in all signs. Jupiter represents the highest level of Visnu, so high that name is just a pointer. Call him Visnu, Jagannath, SambaSadashiva, the highest aspect you can imagine. Mercury, is rajas and differentiating. He represents theincarnations of Visnu, when Visnu takes form so that we can try to grasp/connect to Visnu.The Gunas are present in everyone, but knowledge comes from Sattva. Krsna teaches to increase the sattva guna to gain the knowledge to transcend even the gunas. The Sama that is talked about is the equilibrium that comes from Sattva, not the tattvas. Where do you find Krsna talking of tattvas, He is clear what causes bondage, and how to get out. Sanjay considers the Gita as a core text in our understanding of Jyotish.”I think Jupiter is included among the sattwa planets because the Lord Krishna identifies him as his vibhuti. I have been repeatedly referring to this particular adhyaya in Gita because, here, the Lord in no uncertain terms identifies His representatives, The best, in all clans and classes. He talks of Sun as his vibhuti among Lights, Moon as his vibhuti (among Nakshatras ) and Jupiter as his vibhuti (among priests). Certain versions say that Usava Kavi, whom the Lord names as his tejomsa among seers, is none other than Sukracharya. Can you clarify this point for me? In the exhaustive list He gives out, he talks of light, water, wind and prithvi. He goes on to include intangibles like intelligence etc. Nowhere He talks of gunas. Why? BTW, I think both Dakshinamurthy and Vishnu are the same. Both are pitaambara-dhari and both are Gurus…One gives the precept, the Other guides by action. And, talking of gunas, can you apply the term “sama” to them at all, in Gita or elsewhere? Every one knows clearly that sattwaguna is the best, and is to be cultivated consciously, simultaneously taking care to eliminate rajo and tamo gunas. But when we talk of pancha tattwa, there is no such inequality. All are created equal and all are necessary to have existence, not only in the physical sense, but also in the spiritual sense. Ofcourse, while there isn’t even an iota of doubt that increase of Sattwa guna leads to “samadrishti” and “samabhaava” the means that lead to this celebrated state of equilibrium invoke the pancha bhutas, indicating indirectly that it is at this level, equilibrium is to be established. When we do puja, don’t we invoke the panchaloka paala devata, the representatives of pancha bhutas? Aren’t the ingredients used for worship themselves respresentative of the pancha tattwas? Through worship and surrender to god, we strive to harmonize the physical, mental and spiritual aspects of ourselves. By offering to God the ingredients, which are representative of Pancha tattwas, we are seeking to bring this harmony. At this level, why are we not invoking the gunas, why only the pancha tattwas? And finally, what is Tureeyavstha, which indicates the state of ultimate inner equilibrium? Isn’t it a perfect peace between body & soul, all tattwas?…A balance between jagruti & sushupthi? ”No, not the same at all. There are only 5 mahapurusha yogas, related to thePanchatattva. mars is the significator of Agni tattva. As Venus relates toJala tattva. The Sun is the essence of agni as Moon is the essence of jala,they are on a much higher level. We often throw them in with thepanchatattva for certain techniques, but the 5 tattvas are ruled by fiveplanets only. This supports again the Sattvic aspect of the three sattvicgrahas, that Jupiter is the all pervading Akash, and the Sun and Moon arerelative to the higher aspects of Prakritti. I think more on the following lines: Sun represents the Manifest Agni, while Mars represents the unmanifest, internalized Agni….like the positive/masculine and negative/feminine aspects respectively of a tattwa. This principle is latent in jyotish and can be extended to all tattwas. And, talking of Mahapurusha yogas, I think, Sun is also represented in Hamsa yoga. If you read the 108 names of the Sun or the Surya mantra, you would see that the sun had been often referred to as the “Hamsa”, while that name does not figure anywhere in the names of Jupiter! So, I think while the strength of sun is necessary for any yoga to fructify, for Hamsa Mahapurusha yoga it is all the more important. So is the case with Moon and Venus and Malavya Mahapurusha Yoga. Why do you think Guruji wears and recommends wearing of yellow sapphire on the ring finger, though it is assigned to sun? Don’t tell me that since Tarjani is inauspicious, he does that. In Surya mantra it is given specifically, “Hamsaaya anamikaabhyaam hum”. If you doubt this at all, first please read some of Sanjay's writings on theJanaka Sadakshari mantra. The mantra Hare (Jupiter) Rama (Sun) Krsna (Moon),which removes all badhana, and opens up the eyes.”If you think all this debate is because I disbelieve the teachings of the Guru parampara, then I think you are wrong. Because I believe them, I search and research to know the inner meaning of all things. And, this discussion is only another way of looking at things. Perhaps you are looking at one aspect of Brahman, and to me another aspect is revealed. But nothing to worry, because sooner or later we will all meet in Him because there isn’t anything else. Thanks for your time and the stimulating discussion, friend. Regards, Lakshmi Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at HotJobs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 30, 2004 Report Share Posted April 30, 2004 |Brhaspatim Varenyam| Dear Laxmi, Namaskar. I have added my comments below in Red. Best wishes, Visti. Om Gurave Namah Dear Freedom, Sorry for my delayed response. I was caught up in some other work and couldn’t respond sooner. Venus may hold the promise of procreation, but without the Sun’s strength can it deliver? For assessing the ability to conceive, why should the Arudha pada of 3rd and 9th houses be checked from lagna and Sun? I am quoting verbatim from Varga Chakra “ The Sun being the soul, is vital in bringing another soul to the world”. If there is a flaw in Sun’s placement, then conception itself might get obstructed. This is true both in the cases of male and female charts. Visti: Arudhas work on the basis of the amount of light they can reflect from the Sun. Arudhas in the 2nd, 6th, 8th or 12th from the Sun get no light at all - this is linked to the concept of Dristi - study graha dristi carefully. If these arudhas have todo with conception, then that conception will not happen. If there is no light, there is no truth, and hence no Satya. This Satya makes the Sun highly Sattvic. If the Sun is not predominantly Sattvic, there is no light. From this light emanates the principle of life, and this is indicates the presence of an Atma. It is from this Atma in its universal form, known as the Paramatma that creation emanates from. Its not just from the biological principle of creation, which is rajasic in nature and includes the Tattvas. The qoute you have derived from Varga Chakra, is probably my writing. This relates more to the As9 and As3, which are the Arudhas of 3rd and 9th from the Suns placement - these are important in bringing other Atmas into the world.. There is a whole system of Arudhas from the Sun and Moon. It is not only that Sun initiates the soul into the physical world, he initiates it into the spiritual world too. Gayatri mantra-upadesa initiates the “dwija” into the Brahma vidya. Visti: excellent thinking. Thats why Parasara and Saravali both agree that the Sun gives Atmagyana... but how to use this in charts?... theres more to this. Further, among the pancha bhutas, the first tangible/visible one is agni tattwa (ether is intangible and is contained in the other four) and the creation itself originated from the Vishnu Nabhi, or Manipura chakra, which is agni tattwatmika. If Sun is not identified with Light and Agni tattwa, who else will be? Don’t all the examples quoted above show that The Sun is indeed is the tangible beginning? Visti: According to the Vishnu Purana, the Tattwas/Bhutas were created through the merging of Neela shakti with the ahamkara. The Paramatma however merged with the various Shakti's much before the creation of the Tangible-Tattvas. That is to say that the merging of the Sun and Moon happened much before the tangible creation. Its due to the moons transition between Sattva, Rajas and Tamas guna states, that the various types of creation exist, i.e. Narayana in the form of Annirudha, Pradyumna and Sankarsana (as a result of the merging with the various Sakti's). This is still not tangible. This exact statement is clarified again when we learn about the Ashta Vasu in the Satapata Brahmana, where the Sun and Moon are differentiated from the 5 Tattvas, but here the Sun and Moon find their places as Grahas, and not as Narayana with Sakti, which was the higher form. I think all planets are aspects of the Godhead. There is none that is greater than or less than the other. They all have different tattwas and different roles to play and it’s all part of their brief. And, Moon being the brother of Amrita and Mahalakshmi is definitely the sustainer. Talking about Moon, it is passive, it is not active like the Sun. Only when it is Full and bright, looking like the Sun, it is a total benefic, otherwise a weak moon gets known by the company it keeps. Sattwa, though meek is definitely not weak. It has a lot of inherent strength. It is not easily swayed. This trait of the moon…that gullibility, and those fluctuations are all definitely tamasic. And, please don’t forget that Moon crowns Shiva. Visti: The light emanating from the Sun is Constant. It is only due to the earths motion that it seems to wax and wane through a day. The Moons movement through its waxing and waning states gives us the 3 types of Sakti. This type of differentiation is actually Rajasic in nature, and thats why Mercury is a very rajasic planet being that it differentiates in forms of Vishnu. B ut the Moon is clear that all her forms are that of the Mother, and unlike Mercury, Moon is nor more or less malefic due to its association with planets, but becomes more or less malefic due to her various states of sakti, which have and will always be based on the 3 types of Gunas. This and its never-ending Yoga with the Father - the Paramatma... This is why the Tithis are so important. Now Moon crowning Shiva - Is shiva's crown a sign of Tamas? Are we talking about the Moon as a Graha here or as something higher?I think Jupiter is included among the sattwa planets because the Lord Krishna identifies him as his vibhuti. I have been repeatedly referring to this particular adhyaya in Gita because, here, the Lord in no uncertain terms identifies His representatives, The best, in all clans and classes. He talks of Sun as his vibhuti among Lights, Moon as his vibhuti (among Nakshatras ) and Jupiter as his vibhuti (among priests). Certain versions say that Usava Kavi, whom the Lord names as his tejomsa among seers, is none other than Sukracharya. Can you clarify this point for me? In the exhaustive list He gives out, he talks of light, water, wind and prithvi. He goes on to include intangibles like intelligence etc. Nowhere He talks of gunas. Why? Visti: So is Sri Krishna, referring to Brhaspati as a Graha or as the DevaGuru? He states very clearly that among divine priests, he is Brhaspati. Not among Grahas. Does he says Shukraacharya or Bhrigu among seers? i believe he said Bhrgu. Gunas are not included because Gunas are manifest as tangible through the Tattvas. BTW, I think both Dakshinamurthy and Vishnu are the same. Both are pitaambara-dhari and both are Gurus…One gives the precept, the Other guides by action. Visti: I can't differentiate between Sadashiva and Mahavishnu either. And, talking of gunas, can you apply the term “sama” to them at all, in Gita or elsewhere? Every one knows clearly that sattwaguna is the best, and is to be cultivated consciously, simultaneously taking care to eliminate rajo and tamo gunas. But when we talk of pancha tattwa, there is no such inequality. All are created equal and all are necessary to have existence, not only in the physical sense, but also in the spiritual sense. Visti: Tattva is all about Sambandha. The Tattva Doshas causes Bad Sambandha and this bad sambandha is a result of a lack of Akasha Tattva, especially between Agni-Jala and Prthvi-Vayu. due to this bad sambandha we experience bad relationships with other atmas and also conflicts within ourself. This is all seen from Karakamsa and is abit detailed.. THis is probably what you dreamt, and i will wait for Guruji to teach this. The gunas are also equal, they are just different states of consciousness. it is in the mode of Rajas Guna that desire emanates and the creation starts, i.e. the Sun merging with the Moon whilst Moon is in the state of Rajas. When the Moon changes state, the Guna changes. The Sun is still sattvic. Ofcourse, while there isn’t even an iota of doubt that increase of Sattwa guna leads to “samadrishti” and “samabhaava” the means that lead to this celebrated state of equilibrium invoke the pancha bhutas, indicating indirectly that it is at this level, equilibrium is to be established. When we do puja, don’t we invoke the panchaloka paala devata, the representatives of pancha bhutas? Aren’t the ingredients used for worship themselves respresentative of the pancha tattwas? Through worship and surrender to god, we strive to harmonize the physical, mental and spiritual aspects of ourselves. By offering to God the ingredients, which are representative of Pancha tattwas, we are seeking to bring this harmony. At this level, why are we not invoking the gunas, why only the pancha tattwas? Visti: By offering the Pancha Tattva we are increasing the auspiciousness of the Tattvas and hence removing the Tattva Doshas. this just increases prosperity, not spirituality. And finally, what is Tureeyavstha, which indicates the state of ultimate inner equilibrium? Isn’t it a perfect peace between body & soul, all tattwas?…A balance between jagruti & sushupthi? Visti: In turya avastha, there is not even talk of Tattvas, as this implies a connection with the indriyas through which we experience the tattvas. Turya avastha is complete detachment from the tattvas, so i can't accept this example. I think more on the following lines: Sun represents the Manifest Agni, while Mars represents the unmanifest, internalized Agni….like the positive/masculine and negative/feminine aspects respectively of a tattwa. This principle is latent in jyotish and can be extended to all tattwas. Visti: I don't agree with your thinking - Its usually Mars which burns down houses, or a Jupiter in 3rd house (Karaka Mars). Btw the Devata, Adhi-devata and Pratyadi Devata for the Sun are; Aditya, Agni and Shiva respectively. And, talking of Mahapurusha yogas, I think, Sun is also represented in Hamsa yoga. If you read the 108 names of the Sun or the Surya mantra, you would see that the sun had been often referred to as the “Hamsa”, while that name does not figure anywhere in the names of Jupiter! So, I think while the strength of sun is necessary for any yoga to fructify, for Hamsa Mahapurusha yoga it is all the more important. So is the case with Moon and Venus and Malavya Mahapurusha Yoga. Visti: Hamsa is an aspiration for the Soul, i.e. to become like Jupiter and only suck out the best of the sea of knowledge. You might be right. Why do you think Guruji wears and recommends wearing of yellow sapphire on the ring finger, though it is assigned to sun? Don’t tell me that since Tarjani is inauspicious, he does that. In Surya mantra it is given specifically, “Hamsaaya anamikaabhyaam hum”. Visti: Ok... Some astrologers in the delhi stated this and i asked based on this statement on which finger i should wear a Diamond? They were stumped, and when counting their fingers to see how many grahas they could fit on the fingers, i stated what my guruji has taught me in the past - The finger we wear the gems on are based on the Ayanas, not the Grahas ruling their fingers. Otherwise we might have to wear gems on the thumb or even on the left hand! Oh and everyone in delhi seems to think that Pokraj should be worn on the index finger... just because Jupiter lords it... No other reason. As for your statement regarding Hamsa and the ring finger... Thats part of Nyasa's, Hum, Vausat, Phat, etc, and i wonder how that is applicable to gemstones, though it is enlightening. Thanks for your time and the stimulating discussion, friend. Regards, Lakshmi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 30, 2004 Report Share Posted April 30, 2004 ... hamsasso.aham .. The three gunas are prakriti. Whatever comes out of this prakriti is manifest, whatever does not come out of this prakriti is unmanifest. Prakriti itself falls neither here, nor there. >> Further, among the pancha bhutas, the first tangible/visible one is agni tattwa (ether is intangible and is contained in the other four) Don t all the examples quoted above show that The Sun is indeed is the tangible beginning? The five tattwas give us the five senses. Since each of us can hear, feel, see, taste and smell, all five tattwas are manifest. (We also know that they are manifest because they come out of prakriti). >> Can you clarify this point for me? In the exhaustive list He gives out, he talks of light, water, wind and prithvi. He goes on to include intangibles like intelligence etc. Nowhere He talks of gunas. Why? This chapter is designed to clear the mind, and establish one in sattwa. The chief meditation for this purpose is given first " ahamaatmaa ... " . For those that will have difficulty with this, the remainder of the meditations are given. This includes a meditation on sattva in the 36th verse " sattvaM sattvavataamaham " >> BTW, I think both Dakshinamurthy and Vishnu are the same. Both are pitaambara-dhari and both are GurusOne gives the precept, the Other guides by action. In the same chapter, we have " maunaM caivaasmi … " . Why is silence mentioned in the same breath as knowledge? Because it is the supreme teaching. The medium of sound is aakaasha tattwa. For the transmission of para vidya, the gurus will not use even the subtlest of the tattwas as a medium. For this highest teaching, we must transcend them altogether. >> When we do puja, dont we invoke the panchaloka paala devata, the representatives of pancha bhutas? Arent the ingredients used for worship themselves respresentative of the pancha tattwas? Through worship and surrender to god, we strive to harmonize the physical, mental and spiritual aspects of ourselves. By offering to God the ingredients, which are representative of Pancha tattwas, we are seeking to bring this harmony. At this level, why are we not invoking the gunas, why only the pancha tattwas? Great question. Worship can take place at a subtle and gross level. We start with the latter, and make our way to the former. External ritualized puja is part of the latter. For this, we make use of manifest elements that are found around us. The tattwas which are a part of creation are suitable for this. The gunas, which are the source of creation are not. Those who perform puja with various steps including piitha puja, atma puja and prana pratishtha will see the many, many contradictions that abound in puja. Puja is designed to help us achieve “sama”, and is a first step in the spiritual path. Pujas are done with sankalpa, and as long as there is a sankalpa, we’re still stuck in this world. Whatever we “give” in puja, we will “receive” back with interest. We start at the level of the tattwas, and then move on to the level of the gunas. (i.e. we are trying to reverse the steps that occur in creation). >> And finally, what is Tureeyavstha, which indicates the state of ultimate inner equilibrium? Isnt it a perfect peace between body & soul, all tattwas?A balance between jagruti & sushupthi? In Yoga Vasishtha, turyagaa (reaching turiiya) is explicitly given as being videha-mukti. It is not achievable by anyone who has a body. Here, body should be taken as the causal, subtle and gross bodies. Thus, turiya is the state of trascending the tattwas by which the bodies are formed. It is a state of going back to the gunas. >> But nothing to worry, because sooner or later we will all meet in Him because there isnt anything else. The discussion has been most interesting and stimulating. ajit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 7, 2004 Report Share Posted May 7, 2004 Dear Ajit (and Lakshmi), I was out of town when most of this discussion took place and I missed butting in. I enjoyed your posts very much. After being brought up on the staple of Sankhya Karika I discovered the Panchadashi a couple of years back and I enjoy the details of the Panchikarana of the Pancha Tatvas thoroughly although I must confess I am unsure how much of it I understand. Yes, of course the three gunas came first, that is the basis of creation and it is prakriti (Hence the goddess is always referred to as gunamayi. But she is also nirguna and therein lies the paradox: both Kali and Tripura, amavasya and the full moon). The pure satva is Maya and the tainted satva (that is satva commingled with rajas and tamas) is Avidya. From the latter arises the Pancha Mahabhutas. From the satvik amshas of the mahabhutas come the pancha gyanendriyas...and so on the panchi karana goes on. The main mantra given by the panchadashi to overcome the avidya is Tvatamasi. This word by itself embodies the atmagyana necessary to pierce the sheath of the pancha koshas which enshroud the Paramatma and envelopes us in 'I-ness'. Best regards, Sarbani Ajit Krishnan [astro] Friday, April 30, 2004 8:27 PMvarahamihira Subject: RE: |Sri Varaha| Re:Tattwa Gyana ... hamsasso.aham .. The three gunas are prakriti. Whatever comes out of this prakriti is manifest, whatever does not come out of this prakriti is unmanifest. Prakriti itself falls neither here, nor there. >> Further, among the pancha bhutas, the first tangible/visible one is agni tattwa (ether is intangible and is contained in the other four) Don t all the examples quoted above show that The Sun is indeed is the tangible beginning? The five tattwas give us the five senses. Since each of us can hear, feel, see, taste and smell, all five tattwas are manifest. (We also know that they are manifest because they come out of prakriti). >> Can you clarify this point for me? In the exhaustive list He gives out, he talks of light, water, wind and prithvi. He goes on to include intangibles like intelligence etc. Nowhere He talks of gunas. Why? This chapter is designed to clear the mind, and establish one in sattwa. The chief meditation for this purpose is given first "ahamaatmaa ...". For those that will have difficulty with this, the remainder of the meditations are given. This includes a meditation on sattva in the 36th verse "sattvaM sattvavataamaham" >> BTW, I think both Dakshinamurthy and Vishnu are the same. Both are pitaambara-dhari and both are GurusOne gives the precept, the Other guides by action. In the same chapter, we have "maunaM caivaasmi …". Why is silence mentioned in the same breath as knowledge? Because it is the supreme teaching. The medium of sound is aakaasha tattwa. For the transmission of para vidya, the gurus will not use even the subtlest of the tattwas as a medium. For this highest teaching, we must transcend them altogether. >> When we do puja, dont we invoke the panchaloka paala devata, the representatives of pancha bhutas? Arent the ingredients used for worship themselves respresentative of the pancha tattwas? Through worship and surrender to god, we strive to harmonize the physical, mental and spiritual aspects of ourselves. By offering to God the ingredients, which are representative of Pancha tattwas, we are seeking to bring this harmony. At this level, why are we not invoking the gunas, why only the pancha tattwas? Great question. Worship can take place at a subtle and gross level. We start with the latter, and make our way to the former. External ritualized puja is part of the latter. For this, we make use of manifest elements that are found around us. The tattwas which are a part of creation are suitable for this. The gunas, which are the source of creation are not. Those who perform puja with various steps including piitha puja, atma puja and prana pratishtha will see the many, many contradictions that abound in puja. Puja is designed to help us achieve “sama”, and is a first step in the spiritual path. Pujas are done with sankalpa, and as long as there is a sankalpa, we’re still stuck in this world. Whatever we “give” in puja, we will “receive” back with interest. We start at the level of the tattwas, and then move on to the level of the gunas. (i.e. we are trying to reverse the steps that occur in creation). >> And finally, what is Tureeyavstha, which indicates the state of ultimate inner equilibrium? Isnt it a perfect peace between body & soul, all tattwas?A balance between jagruti & sushupthi? In Yoga Vasishtha, turyagaa (reaching turiiya) is explicitly given as being videha-mukti. It is not achievable by anyone who has a body. Here, body should be taken as the causal, subtle and gross bodies. Thus, turiya is the state of trascending the tattwas by which the bodies are formed. It is a state of going back to the gunas. >> But nothing to worry, because sooner or later we will all meet in Him because there isnt anything else. The discussion has been most interesting and stimulating. ajit |Om Tat Sat|http://www.varahamihira Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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