Bhagavad Gita and Jyotish: saying thank you and..

[Guest guest]

Hari Om Namo Vishwarupa

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Namaste Nitish, Rosemary and Partha,

Wanted to thank you for your insight and support.... this I feel is

Jyotish at its finest. Looking to the Gita and Mahabharata and

extracting the science of light from it is wonderful.

 

Yudhishtira's father is Yama

Arjuna's father is Indra

Bhima's father is Vayu

Nakula and Sahadev's father is Ashwini stars

 

So there is some overlap/confusion on my side as we look to the

association of the " father " and Graha e.g. Vayu can be Sani,

as can Yama - yet we know Yudhishtira is the exponent of dharma

and therefore of Jupiter (Guru).

 

Any clarity to this is appreciated.

 

Frank in San Diego

 

 

varahamihira , " V.Partha sarathy "

<partvinu5> wrote:

> Dear Nitish

>

> Bhima is the best amongst the warriors, he is also bristling with

lot

> of energy. I dont see how he can be Hamsa Mahapurush.

>

> Even though we talk of Sani as Dharmaraja etc, but Still JUpiter

is

> the planet of Satya. He is the Ultimate Goal of any soul. He is

the

> Nirakar Brahma, the Sada Shiva, and the all pervading Vishnu. So

> considering these factors, and also the fact that Jupiter rules

the

> 9th house of natural Kalapurusha(9th refers to dharma, and

> maintaining law) to Yudhisthira

> best wishes

> partha

>

>

> varahamihira , Nitish Arya <yeeahoo_99>

> wrote:

> > Dear Partha,

> > Intuitively, I feel following assignments of pancha

> > pandavas with five planets. Here is my listing:

> > a) Sasa-Sani-Yudhisthira - Dharmaraj

> > b) Hamsa_jupiter-Bhima

> > c) Bhadra-Mercury-Arjuna - best shishya of

> > Dronacharya, closest to Sri Krishna.

> > d) Ruchaka-Mars-Sahadeva

> > e) Malavya-Venus-Nakula

> >

> > Any comments?

> > regards,

> > nitish

> > --- " V.Partha sarathy " <partvinu5> wrote:

> > > Dear Frank

> > >

> > > Yes, all the symbology of Gita is linked to the

> > > essence of vedas, and

> > > ofcourse it has to include Jyotish.

> > >

> > > You know the pancha Mahapurusha

> > >

> > > a) Hamsa_jupiter-Yudhisthira

> > > b) Ruchaka-Mars-Bhima

> > > c) Bhadra-Mercury-Arjuna

> > > d) Malavya-Venus-Nakula

> > > e) Sasa-Sani-Sahadeva

> > >

> > >

> > > As mercury is pure innocence, and rules the

> > > Mooladhara Chakra, it can

> > > be related to non covetness,

> > >

> > > And as non acceptance of others property would mean

> > > humility, it

> > > would be related to Saturn which can be attributed

> > > to Sahadeva.

> > > Generally Sahadeva can also mean a person full of

> > > patience, thus Sani

> > > can be the link here.

> > > best wishes

> > > partha

> > > partvinu.tripod.com

> > >

> > >

> > > varahamihira , " fls999999999 "

> > > <frank_in_sandiego@c...> wrote:

> > > > Hari Om Namo Vishwarupaya

> > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> > > >

> > > > Namaste fellow Jyotisha

> > > >

> > > > Sanjay has spoke many times on the Gita being part

> > > of Jyotish

> > > > knowledge.

> > > > As I look to the Gita , I see the Pandava and

> > > their association

> > > with

> > > > the 5 tattva ( akasha, vayu, tejas, apas and

> > > prithivi) and

> > > therefore

> > > > with the 5 graha's, as they come from the

> > > mahabhutas.

> > > >

> > > > This also transfers over to thr 5 Yama ( Satya,

> > > Ahimsa, Asteya,

> > > > Brahmacharya and Aparingraha) and 5 Niyama (

> > > Shaucha, Santosha,

> > > > Tapas, Svadhaya, Ishvara-pranidhana.

> > > >

> > > > How would the Yama and Niyama align with the

> > > Graha's and with

> > > > Yudhishtira, Bhima, Arjuna, Nakula and Sahadev?

> > > > Satya - Truthfulness - Jupiter - Yudhishtira

> > > > Ahimsa - Non violence - Venus - ___________

> > > > Asteya - Noncovet - - ___________

> > > > Brahmacharya - Celibacy - Mars - ___________

> > > > and Aparingraha - Non acceptence of others

> > > property _____ - _____

> > > >

> > > > Any one wish to help? or have an opinion?

> > > >

> > > > Pranams,

> > > > Frank in San Diego

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Dear Frank

 

THere is another brother for the pancha or five pandavas and that is

karna who is son of Surya or SUN god.

 

Sun rules the sahasrara chakra or the thousand petal lotus, now Karna

was the son of Kunti the mother of Yudhishthira, Bhima and Arjuna.

Karna is the " First " or the Adi. Now If one wants to merge in

Godhood, one has to pierce the Ego which can be represented by Karna.

 

Krishna or the universal Lord helps Arjuna(Prithvi tatwa) to kill Ego

when it has lost its battles, when it is on the brink of extinction.

But it has been interpreted as breaking of dharma by some. So lord

was not doing anything wrong when he asked Arjuna to kill the Ego.,

 

The kundalini energy resides in the mooladhara chakra, and mooladhara

chakra's primordial element is earth. So once kundalini raises, the

energy starts in a spiral movement from here.

 

Probably there is some symbology again with respect to father.

As kundalini rises, the earth merges with water, water and earth with

fire, then water, fire and earth in vayu, and then vayu, fire,

earth, water in akash. Akash with these merge into OM, and OM into

sadashiva. So may be the fathers can be inferred here.

best wishes

partha

 

 

 

varahamihira , " fls999999999 "

<frank_in_sandiego@c...> wrote:

> Hari Om Namo Vishwarupa

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> Namaste Nitish, Rosemary and Partha,

> Wanted to thank you for your insight and support.... this I feel is

> Jyotish at its finest. Looking to the Gita and Mahabharata and

> extracting the science of light from it is wonderful.

>

> Yudhishtira's father is Yama

> Arjuna's father is Indra

> Bhima's father is Vayu

> Nakula and Sahadev's father is Ashwini stars

>

> So there is some overlap/confusion on my side as we look to the

> association of the " father " and Graha e.g. Vayu can be Sani,

> as can Yama - yet we know Yudhishtira is the exponent of dharma

> and therefore of Jupiter (Guru).

>

> Any clarity to this is appreciated.

>

> Frank in San Diego

>

>

> varahamihira , " V.Partha sarathy "

> <partvinu5> wrote:

> > Dear Nitish

> >

> > Bhima is the best amongst the warriors, he is also bristling with

> lot

> > of energy. I dont see how he can be Hamsa Mahapurush.

> >

> > Even though we talk of Sani as Dharmaraja etc, but Still JUpiter

> is

> > the planet of Satya. He is the Ultimate Goal of any soul. He is

> the

> > Nirakar Brahma, the Sada Shiva, and the all pervading Vishnu. So

> > considering these factors, and also the fact that Jupiter rules

> the

> > 9th house of natural Kalapurusha(9th refers to dharma, and

> > maintaining law) to Yudhisthira

> > best wishes

> > partha

> >

> >

> > varahamihira , Nitish Arya

<yeeahoo_99>

> > wrote:

> > > Dear Partha,

> > > Intuitively, I feel following assignments of pancha

> > > pandavas with five planets. Here is my listing:

> > > a) Sasa-Sani-Yudhisthira - Dharmaraj

> > > b) Hamsa_jupiter-Bhima

> > > c) Bhadra-Mercury-Arjuna - best shishya of

> > > Dronacharya, closest to Sri Krishna.

> > > d) Ruchaka-Mars-Sahadeva

> > > e) Malavya-Venus-Nakula

> > >

> > > Any comments?

> > > regards,

> > > nitish

> > > --- " V.Partha sarathy " <partvinu5> wrote:

> > > > Dear Frank

> > > >

> > > > Yes, all the symbology of Gita is linked to the

> > > > essence of vedas, and

> > > > ofcourse it has to include Jyotish.

> > > >

> > > > You know the pancha Mahapurusha

> > > >

> > > > a) Hamsa_jupiter-Yudhisthira

> > > > b) Ruchaka-Mars-Bhima

> > > > c) Bhadra-Mercury-Arjuna

> > > > d) Malavya-Venus-Nakula

> > > > e) Sasa-Sani-Sahadeva

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > As mercury is pure innocence, and rules the

> > > > Mooladhara Chakra, it can

> > > > be related to non covetness,

> > > >

> > > > And as non acceptance of others property would mean

> > > > humility, it

> > > > would be related to Saturn which can be attributed

> > > > to Sahadeva.

> > > > Generally Sahadeva can also mean a person full of

> > > > patience, thus Sani

> > > > can be the link here.

> > > > best wishes

> > > > partha

> > > > partvinu.tripod.com

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > varahamihira , " fls999999999 "

> > > > <frank_in_sandiego@c...> wrote:

> > > > > Hari Om Namo Vishwarupaya

> > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> > > > >

> > > > > Namaste fellow Jyotisha

> > > > >

> > > > > Sanjay has spoke many times on the Gita being part

> > > > of Jyotish

> > > > > knowledge.

> > > > > As I look to the Gita , I see the Pandava and

> > > > their association

> > > > with

> > > > > the 5 tattva ( akasha, vayu, tejas, apas and

> > > > prithivi) and

> > > > therefore

> > > > > with the 5 graha's, as they come from the

> > > > mahabhutas.

> > > > >

> > > > > This also transfers over to thr 5 Yama ( Satya,

> > > > Ahimsa, Asteya,

> > > > > Brahmacharya and Aparingraha) and 5 Niyama (

> > > > Shaucha, Santosha,

> > > > > Tapas, Svadhaya, Ishvara-pranidhana.

> > > > >

> > > > > How would the Yama and Niyama align with the

> > > > Graha's and with

> > > > > Yudhishtira, Bhima, Arjuna, Nakula and Sahadev?

> > > > > Satya - Truthfulness - Jupiter - Yudhishtira

> > > > > Ahimsa - Non violence - Venus - ___________

> > > > > Asteya - Noncovet - - ___________

> > > > > Brahmacharya - Celibacy - Mars - ___________

> > > > > and Aparingraha - Non acceptence of others

> > > > property _____ - _____

> > > > >

> > > > > Any one wish to help? or have an opinion?

> > > > >

> > > > > Pranams,

> > > > > Frank in San Diego

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

|| Om Gurave Namah ||

Dear Frank,

My thoughts,

 

Yudhishtira could have had strong Saturn, As Yama is Saturn's Elder

Brother. Yama is also called Dharmaraja. Saturn takes cares of Sins

and Yama rules the lokas where sins fructify.

 

Jupiter's Adideva is Indra so Arjuna could be ruled by Jupiter.

 

Hanumaan was also called Pawan Putra (Wind's Son) and Bhima is also

son of Vayu. Since hanumaan is associated with Mars so can be Bhima.

I really dint get the reason as to why Vayu should be associated with

Mars. Maybe it could be due to the fact that there are 5 Vayu like

Prana,Apana, Vyana,Samana, Udana. Bhima maybe associated with the

Fiery kind of Vayu as Hanuman is associated. (Whole Ramayana is some

times seen as Praana Vayu(Hanuma/Vayuputra) seeking Rama)

 

Nakula was supposed to have Unrivalled Beauty. Mercury gives beauty.

 

Sahadeva was a very great learned. Venus is Kavi and very learned. So

he could have had strong Venus.

Nakula and Sahadeva were twins so they could have a very similar

chart.

 

 

Warm Regards

Sanjay P.

 

 

 

varahamihira , " fls999999999 "

<frank_in_sandiego@c...> wrote:

> Hari Om Namo Vishwarupa

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> Namaste Nitish, Rosemary and Partha,

> Wanted to thank you for your insight and support.... this I feel is

> Jyotish at its finest. Looking to the Gita and Mahabharata and

> extracting the science of light from it is wonderful.

>

> Yudhishtira's father is Yama

> Arjuna's father is Indra

> Bhima's father is Vayu

> Nakula and Sahadev's father is Ashwini stars

>

> So there is some overlap/confusion on my side as we look to the

> association of the " father " and Graha e.g. Vayu can be Sani,

> as can Yama - yet we know Yudhishtira is the exponent of dharma

> and therefore of Jupiter (Guru).

>

> Any clarity to this is appreciated.

>

> Frank in San Diego

>

>

> varahamihira , " V.Partha sarathy "

> <partvinu5> wrote:

> > Dear Nitish

> >

> > Bhima is the best amongst the warriors, he is also bristling with

> lot

> > of energy. I dont see how he can be Hamsa Mahapurush.

> >

> > Even though we talk of Sani as Dharmaraja etc, but Still JUpiter

> is

> > the planet of Satya. He is the Ultimate Goal of any soul. He is

> the

> > Nirakar Brahma, the Sada Shiva, and the all pervading Vishnu. So

> > considering these factors, and also the fact that Jupiter rules

> the

> > 9th house of natural Kalapurusha(9th refers to dharma, and

> > maintaining law) to Yudhisthira

> > best wishes

> > partha

> >

> >

> > varahamihira , Nitish Arya

<yeeahoo_99>

> > wrote:

> > > Dear Partha,

> > > Intuitively, I feel following assignments of pancha

> > > pandavas with five planets. Here is my listing:

> > > a) Sasa-Sani-Yudhisthira - Dharmaraj

> > > b) Hamsa_jupiter-Bhima

> > > c) Bhadra-Mercury-Arjuna - best shishya of

> > > Dronacharya, closest to Sri Krishna.

> > > d) Ruchaka-Mars-Sahadeva

> > > e) Malavya-Venus-Nakula

> > >

> > > Any comments?

> > > regards,

> > > nitish

> > > --- " V.Partha sarathy " <partvinu5> wrote:

> > > > Dear Frank

> > > >

> > > > Yes, all the symbology of Gita is linked to the

> > > > essence of vedas, and

> > > > ofcourse it has to include Jyotish.

> > > >

> > > > You know the pancha Mahapurusha

> > > >

> > > > a) Hamsa_jupiter-Yudhisthira

> > > > b) Ruchaka-Mars-Bhima

> > > > c) Bhadra-Mercury-Arjuna

> > > > d) Malavya-Venus-Nakula

> > > > e) Sasa-Sani-Sahadeva

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > As mercury is pure innocence, and rules the

> > > > Mooladhara Chakra, it can

> > > > be related to non covetness,

> > > >

> > > > And as non acceptance of others property would mean

> > > > humility, it

> > > > would be related to Saturn which can be attributed

> > > > to Sahadeva.

> > > > Generally Sahadeva can also mean a person full of

> > > > patience, thus Sani

> > > > can be the link here.

> > > > best wishes

> > > > partha

> > > > partvinu.tripod.com

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > varahamihira , " fls999999999 "

> > > > <frank_in_sandiego@c...> wrote:

> > > > > Hari Om Namo Vishwarupaya

> > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> > > > >

> > > > > Namaste fellow Jyotisha

> > > > >

> > > > > Sanjay has spoke many times on the Gita being part

> > > > of Jyotish

> > > > > knowledge.

> > > > > As I look to the Gita , I see the Pandava and

> > > > their association

> > > > with

> > > > > the 5 tattva ( akasha, vayu, tejas, apas and

> > > > prithivi) and

> > > > therefore

> > > > > with the 5 graha's, as they come from the

> > > > mahabhutas.

> > > > >

> > > > > This also transfers over to thr 5 Yama ( Satya,

> > > > Ahimsa, Asteya,

> > > > > Brahmacharya and Aparingraha) and 5 Niyama (

> > > > Shaucha, Santosha,

> > > > > Tapas, Svadhaya, Ishvara-pranidhana.

> > > > >

> > > > > How would the Yama and Niyama align with the

> > > > Graha's and with

> > > > > Yudhishtira, Bhima, Arjuna, Nakula and Sahadev?

> > > > > Satya - Truthfulness - Jupiter - Yudhishtira

> > > > > Ahimsa - Non violence - Venus - ___________

> > > > > Asteya - Noncovet - - ___________

> > > > > Brahmacharya - Celibacy - Mars - ___________

> > > > > and Aparingraha - Non acceptence of others

> > > > property _____ - _____

> > > > >

> > > > > Any one wish to help? or have an opinion?

> > > > >

> > > > > Pranams,

> > > > > Frank in San Diego

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Hari OM,

 

Yes, Karna is important as was left out of our earlier

conversations... Karna , a great ( if not greater then Arjuna)

archer himself, and son of Surya.

 

The Pandava can teach us much - as with Pandava NirjalA EkAdasii

one of the most auspicious Tithi's for the Vashnavia.

The merit achieved by fasting on whatever EkAdasis fall in one year

can be attained by fasting on this one EkAdasii (nirjalA EkAdasii).

I think it just passed in May, but we can try again as Surya resides

in Gemini and fast on Ekadashi to remove many blemishes.

Bhimasena found it a challange to fast on Ekadasii so asks if there

is ONE Ekadasii to fast on that is the greatest merit, which one is

it?

 

The great sage Shrila VyAsadeva, the grandfather of the PANDavas said

" Oh Bhimasena, one who can fast on this special EkAdasii in this

manner reaps the benefit of having fasted on every EkAdasii during

the year. There is no doubt of this, nor should there be. Oh Bhima,

now hear the specific merit one gets by fasting on this EkAdasii " .

 

Pranams,

 

 

varahamihira , " V.Partha sarathy "

<partvinu5> wrote:

> Dear Frank

>

> THere is another brother for the pancha or five pandavas and that

is

> karna who is son of Surya or SUN god.

>

> Sun rules the sahasrara chakra or the thousand petal lotus, now

Karna

> was the son of Kunti the mother of Yudhishthira, Bhima and Arjuna.

> Karna is the " First " or the Adi. Now If one wants to merge in

> Godhood, one has to pierce the Ego which can be represented by

Karna.

>

> Krishna or the universal Lord helps Arjuna(Prithvi tatwa) to kill

Ego

> when it has lost its battles, when it is on the brink of

extinction.

> But it has been interpreted as breaking of dharma by some. So lord

> was not doing anything wrong when he asked Arjuna to kill the Ego.,

>

> The kundalini energy resides in the mooladhara chakra, and

mooladhara

> chakra's primordial element is earth. So once kundalini raises,

the

> energy starts in a spiral movement from here.

>

> Probably there is some symbology again with respect to father.

> As kundalini rises, the earth merges with water, water and earth

with

> fire, then water, fire and earth in vayu, and then vayu, fire,

> earth, water in akash. Akash with these merge into OM, and OM

into

> sadashiva. So may be the fathers can be inferred here.

> best wishes

> partha

>

>

>

> varahamihira , " fls999999999 "

> <frank_in_sandiego@c...> wrote:

> > Hari Om Namo Vishwarupa

> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> > Namaste Nitish, Rosemary and Partha,

> > Wanted to thank you for your insight and support.... this I feel

is

> > Jyotish at its finest. Looking to the Gita and Mahabharata and

> > extracting the science of light from it is wonderful.

> >

> > Yudhishtira's father is Yama

> > Arjuna's father is Indra

> > Bhima's father is Vayu

> > Nakula and Sahadev's father is Ashwini stars

> >

> > So there is some overlap/confusion on my side as we look to the

> > association of the " father " and Graha e.g. Vayu can be Sani,

> > as can Yama - yet we know Yudhishtira is the exponent of dharma

> > and therefore of Jupiter (Guru).

> >

> > Any clarity to this is appreciated.

> >

> > Frank in San Diego

> >

> >

> > varahamihira , " V.Partha sarathy "

> > <partvinu5> wrote:

> > > Dear Nitish

> > >

> > > Bhima is the best amongst the warriors, he is also bristling

with

> > lot

> > > of energy. I dont see how he can be Hamsa Mahapurush.

> > >

> > > Even though we talk of Sani as Dharmaraja etc, but Still

JUpiter

> > is

> > > the planet of Satya. He is the Ultimate Goal of any soul. He

is

> > the

> > > Nirakar Brahma, the Sada Shiva, and the all pervading Vishnu.

So

> > > considering these factors, and also the fact that Jupiter

rules

> > the

> > > 9th house of natural Kalapurusha(9th refers to dharma, and

> > > maintaining law) to Yudhisthira

> > > best wishes

> > > partha

> > >

> > >

> > > varahamihira , Nitish Arya

> <yeeahoo_99>

> > > wrote:

> > > > Dear Partha,

> > > > Intuitively, I feel following assignments of pancha

> > > > pandavas with five planets. Here is my listing:

> > > > a) Sasa-Sani-Yudhisthira - Dharmaraj

> > > > b) Hamsa_jupiter-Bhima

> > > > c) Bhadra-Mercury-Arjuna - best shishya of

> > > > Dronacharya, closest to Sri Krishna.

> > > > d) Ruchaka-Mars-Sahadeva

> > > > e) Malavya-Venus-Nakula

> > > >

> > > > Any comments?

> > > > regards,

> > > > nitish

> > > > --- " V.Partha sarathy " <partvinu5> wrote:

> > > > > Dear Frank

> > > > >

> > > > > Yes, all the symbology of Gita is linked to the

> > > > > essence of vedas, and

> > > > > ofcourse it has to include Jyotish.

> > > > >

> > > > > You know the pancha Mahapurusha

> > > > >

> > > > > a) Hamsa_jupiter-Yudhisthira

> > > > > b) Ruchaka-Mars-Bhima

> > > > > c) Bhadra-Mercury-Arjuna

> > > > > d) Malavya-Venus-Nakula

> > > > > e) Sasa-Sani-Sahadeva

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > As mercury is pure innocence, and rules the

> > > > > Mooladhara Chakra, it can

> > > > > be related to non covetness,

> > > > >

> > > > > And as non acceptance of others property would mean

> > > > > humility, it

> > > > > would be related to Saturn which can be attributed

> > > > > to Sahadeva.

> > > > > Generally Sahadeva can also mean a person full of

> > > > > patience, thus Sani

> > > > > can be the link here.

> > > > > best wishes

> > > > > partha

> > > > > partvinu.tripod.com

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > varahamihira , " fls999999999 "

> > > > > <frank_in_sandiego@c...> wrote:

> > > > > > Hari Om Namo Vishwarupaya

> > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Namaste fellow Jyotisha

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Sanjay has spoke many times on the Gita being part

> > > > > of Jyotish

> > > > > > knowledge.

> > > > > > As I look to the Gita , I see the Pandava and

> > > > > their association

> > > > > with

> > > > > > the 5 tattva ( akasha, vayu, tejas, apas and

> > > > > prithivi) and

> > > > > therefore

> > > > > > with the 5 graha's, as they come from the

> > > > > mahabhutas.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > This also transfers over to thr 5 Yama ( Satya,

> > > > > Ahimsa, Asteya,

> > > > > > Brahmacharya and Aparingraha) and 5 Niyama (

> > > > > Shaucha, Santosha,

> > > > > > Tapas, Svadhaya, Ishvara-pranidhana.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > How would the Yama and Niyama align with the

> > > > > Graha's and with

> > > > > > Yudhishtira, Bhima, Arjuna, Nakula and Sahadev?

> > > > > > Satya - Truthfulness - Jupiter - Yudhishtira

> > > > > > Ahimsa - Non violence - Venus - ___________

> > > > > > Asteya - Noncovet - - ___________

> > > > > > Brahmacharya - Celibacy - Mars - ___________

> > > > > > and Aparingraha - Non acceptence of others

> > > > > property _____ - _____

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Any one wish to help? or have an opinion?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Pranams,

> > > > > > Frank in San Diego

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

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> > > >