Next Step after dropping the body -some final thoughts....

[Guest guest]

Tamu stotarah purvyam yathavida

Rtasya garbham janusa pipartana

Asya jananto nama cidvivaktana

Mahas te Visno sumatim bhajamahe

-----From the Rk Ved 2.2.26

 

Namaste Visti and Saaji,

thank you for your insights..this is truly an interesting topic for

me.

The question on the Graha's Saaji was one of influence...

IF they inflence and carry out the actions of Narayan, then

in other loka's are they still in full force?

 

AND - if one were on the spiritual pursuit of Dharmamegha ( Moksha)

then in upper lokas ones efforts I would hope would continue and

progress would be made, perhaps easier, w/o a body and distractions

HENCE no need to come back to earth and continue the pursuit, but

use the upper lokas as a spring board.

 

The Gita clearly points out ones ability to drop the body at an

auspicious time, ones gati can be auspicious ( One in Light or sukla

and one in darkness or krsne - Chapter 8 points this out)

 

Yet easy to attain is one of measure - Keshava suggests that the one

who rembers ME without deviation, He is easy to attain.

Deviaton = 7/x24/x365 days a year withour effort or trying.

This State is enlightment...with full consciousness established,

unwavering Nirvitarka Samapatti, as Maharishi Patanjali calls it.

Where could one possibly go when Isvara-pranidhana is established

unless to the higest place, without the possility of return.

This is possible on this planet, but can it be achieved w/o

a body ( lagna) to get this done in upper realms.

 

HENSE when we look at ones chart at departure, KETU must play

a key role here, as karaka of Moksha and if one finally makes

the destination to Krsna/Vishwarupa - so Jupiter/Ketu/Mercury

may influence? Thoughts?

 

Thank you again for listening.

Regards,

Frank in San Diego

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

varahamihira , " saaji kulangara " <saajik>

wrote:

> Om Subrahmanyaya Namah

>

> Namaste,

>

> My reply below.

>

> Regards,

>

> Saaji

>

>

> varahamihira , " fls999999999 "

> <frank_in_sandiego@c...> wrote:

> > Hari Om Namo Vishwarupya

> >

> > Namaste

> > I posted this last week and wondered if anyone has insight into

the

> > mechanics of this, or if they heard Sanjayji dicuss...lots of

open

> > ends in my mind on this.... that is:

> >

> > Sanjay comments on atma separating from mana at some stage after

> > death, then reunites once the birth process

> > occurs for those that have not reached Kavalaya.

>

>

> I prefer to think otherwise. I think the mind only forgets things

> while Atma being the silent spectator knows everything. Atma knows

> that we all are same, it's the mind that differentiate things. As

you

> said in different worlds if we enjoy/suffer, mind should be

active,

> as nothing affects Atma(Gita). Hence mind should be active in all

> levels in some way or other. And, some even say both are same.

There

> are incidents where people could remember their previous births.

And,

> Abhimanyu could learn things even before he born in this world.

>

> Writing to Sanjay Ji is the best thing to do.

>

>

>

> > What I do not understand,

> > 1. If from your merit you earn time in Surya Loka, Indraloka,

> > etc. What faculty of your being is experiencing these Lokas?

> > If the atma, manas and indriayas are not in tact?

> >

>

> The stories of Indra says he been jealous, feared, was kind etc;

So

> with other demi gods. Even Lord Vishnu or Lord Siva doesn't spare.

> The worlds you said are simply higher platterns where things are

> fine. The hells are also explained in Puranas, as you said, how

could

> Atma suffer?

>

>

> > 2. If you are a Sanyas or on the path of Moksa, would his

> > practice not continued in these lokas and move one

> > further to Brahma-bhuta and not have to come back to earth?

> >

>

>

> May not have to, however Moksha(Kaivalya) is very very difficult

to

> achieve.

>

>

> > 3. Last, what effects do the Graha's have in these lokas? I

> > will assume karma is still in affect.

> >

>

>

> I didnt understand this portion. The grahas hint the fruits of the

> previous birth. It is not that Grahas mould our life or take stock

of

> our Karma. Karma manifests everywhere, everytime. Brahma does

> creation, Vishnu does protection... It's the essence of this world

> (some say it's time...) Time to time, even Devas had to undergo

> sufferings. Didnt Indra lost his position due to bad karma?

>

>

> > I know its a bit asoteric, yet part of the continuium of our

> > spiritual experience.

> >

> > Pranams

> >

> > Frank in San Diego

[Guest guest]

Om Subrahmanyaya Namah

 

Namaste,

 

A very quick note. I know that I am not enough to attempt your topic,

I took it only because no one replied. As I read on(the books) my

views change. And I'm running Ra-Ke, if you find my words foolish or

arrogant, simply ignore them.

 

Best Regards,

 

Saaji

 

 

 

varahamihira , " fls999999999 "

<frank_in_sandiego@c...> wrote:

> Tamu stotarah purvyam yathavida

> Rtasya garbham janusa pipartana

> Asya jananto nama cidvivaktana

> Mahas te Visno sumatim bhajamahe

> -----From the Rk Ved 2.2.26

 

Thank you for this. My Sanskrit knowledge is very less. Veda is the

highest authority. In Vishnu SN the questions of Yudhishtira and

subsquent answer by Bhishma also say this. But the glory of Lord

Shiva in Shiva Purana and that of Devi in Devi Bhagavatam/Devi

Mahatmyam are in same line. Ultimately everything is same. So say

Krishna in Gita. (I'm this among this...) I dont remember fully,

when one Asura did tapasya for boon from Lord Vishnu, Lord Shiva was

one who appeared. He said those who pray to Lord Vishnu is dear to

me. Connecting all these, I cant agree that other dieties cant offer

Moksha or lower in grade. Faith is most important, we dont need any

authority. There is a place named Gokarna, where para-

brahmam `appeared' in the form of cow as the devotee was told that it

is in such form. Faith gives wonderful results.

 

 

>

> Namaste Visti and Saaji,

> thank you for your insights..this is truly an interesting topic for

> me.

 

For me too.

 

 

> The question on the Graha's Saaji was one of influence...

> IF they inflence and carry out the actions of Narayan, then

> in other loka's are they still in full force?

 

I can only guess. There been/are people who can simply predict

anything on Duta Lakshana and Nimittas. (for future birth also). They

dont have to look on horos. Grahas, the movements and their position

at the time of birth are a tool for us to delineate results. The net

results of our previous birth are shown by the planetary positions at

birth. If they are in good positions, we can think that the native

has good karma in store, if not opposite. The horoscope shows `Drida'

results, while Gochara and AV shows `adrida'. One earns a position in

other worlds due to their merit, the time period is determined by the

strength of the karma. After that the changeover occurs. Pramanam is

Mahabharata. Pandavas(except Yud), after death had to spent sometime

in hell(for their slight bad karma), then in heaven after that they

merged with the respective Deva of which they were amsabhoota.

Yudhishtira eventhough he was a'Dharma Raja' had to take a view of

the hell since he did lie once in the battle field. Kauravas on the

other hand, spent their first portion in heaven (for their slight

good karma), then they had to go to hell.Because they had slight

portion of Good karma and large portion of bad karma.

 

But In Kali Yuga things are said to be different. Even the highest

sort of papa is nullified by reciting the name of lord intentionally

or EVEN unintentionally.

 

>

> AND - if one were on the spiritual pursuit of Dharmamegha ( Moksha)

> then in upper lokas ones efforts I would hope would continue and

> progress would be made, perhaps easier, w/o a body and distractions

> HENCE no need to come back to earth and continue the pursuit, but

> use the upper lokas as a spring board.

 

My view I expressed in my last mail. So far, I could understand that

the real Moksha, where one atma merges with parabrhmam is very very

difficult to achieve. One can be a Rishi, a Dhruva who stands as a

star, a Manu but this itself a normal soul cant even think of.

 

 

>

> The Gita clearly points out ones ability to drop the body at an

> auspicious time, ones gati can be auspicious ( One in Light or

sukla

> and one in darkness or krsne - Chapter 8 points this out)

>

> Yet easy to attain is one of measure - Keshava suggests that the

one

> who rembers ME without deviation, He is easy to attain.

> Deviaton = 7/x24/x365 days a year withour effort or trying.

 

I dont think Krishna meant to remember him all the time. Virakti is

more important. Do karma without thinking about fruits, meditate.

Once Narada asked Lord Narayana who's his greatest bhakta, Narayana

told there is one farmer who thinks him only once a day. Narada was

surprised, he himself recites his name throughout the day. Reason was

while we are busy we cant think abt anything else. You might have

heard this described beautifully.

 

 

> This State is enlightment...with full consciousness established,

> unwavering Nirvitarka Samapatti, as Maharishi Patanjali calls it.

> Where could one possibly go when Isvara-pranidhana is established

> unless to the higest place, without the possility of return.

> This is possible on this planet, but can it be achieved w/o

> a body ( lagna) to get this done in upper realms.

 

I dont know.

 

 

>

> HENSE when we look at ones chart at departure, KETU must play

> a key role here, as karaka of Moksha and if one finally makes

> the destination to Krsna/Vishwarupa - so Jupiter/Ketu/Mercury

> may influence? Thoughts?

 

Logical.

 

As per Varahamihira, Moksha is attained when all these fulfll

1) Lagna is in Last Navamsa

2) Jupiter is in deep exaltation in 1st/4th/6th/7th/8th/10th

3) all other planets are powerless

 

This can be seen in Jataka or chart of departure. Some split this

into two. Point two alone and Point 1 and 3. This is in Ch 23 which

tells about the future state of the soul in short(apart from this).

 

Prasna Marga also might help. I dont know abt other texts which go in

detail on this portion. And I'm yet to read Sanjay Ji's and other

articles in this regard.

 

Seeing the charts of SriRamaparamahamsa etc we can form an opinion.

But in truth, for evolved souls, horos and actual results can have

big variation. Once the transformation occurs horo has less impact,

even death is as per wish! Prasna is fine, that too in the hands of a

Daivajna .

 

This is all I can tell u on ur topic. Thanks.

 

 

>

> Thank you again for listening.

> Regards,

> Frank in San Diego

>

>

>

varahamihira , " saaji kulangara "

<saajik>

> wrote:

> > Om Subrahmanyaya Namah

> >

> > Namaste,

> >

> > My reply below.

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> > Saaji

> >

> >

> > varahamihira , " fls999999999 "

> > <frank_in_sandiego@c...> wrote:

> > > Hari Om Namo Vishwarupya

> > >

> > > Namaste

> > > I posted this last week and wondered if anyone has insight into

> the

> > > mechanics of this, or if they heard Sanjayji dicuss...lots of

> open

> > > ends in my mind on this.... that is:

> > >

> > > Sanjay comments on atma separating from mana at some stage after

> > > death, then reunites once the birth process

> > > occurs for those that have not reached Kavalaya.

> >

> >

> > I prefer to think otherwise. I think the mind only forgets things

> > while Atma being the silent spectator knows everything. Atma

knows

> > that we all are same, it's the mind that differentiate things. As

> you

> > said in different worlds if we enjoy/suffer, mind should be

> active,

> > as nothing affects Atma(Gita). Hence mind should be active in all

> > levels in some way or other. And, some even say both are same.

> There

> > are incidents where people could remember their previous births.

> And,

> > Abhimanyu could learn things even before he born in this world.

> >

> > Writing to Sanjay Ji is the best thing to do.

> >

> >

> >

> > > What I do not understand,

> > > 1. If from your merit you earn time in Surya Loka, Indraloka,

> > > etc. What faculty of your being is experiencing these Lokas?

> > > If the atma, manas and indriayas are not in tact?

> > >

> >

> > The stories of Indra says he been jealous, feared, was kind etc;

> So

> > with other demi gods. Even Lord Vishnu or Lord Siva doesn't

spare.

> > The worlds you said are simply higher platterns where things are

> > fine. The hells are also explained in Puranas, as you said, how

> could

> > Atma suffer?

> >

> >

> > > 2. If you are a Sanyas or on the path of Moksa, would his

> > > practice not continued in these lokas and move one

> > > further to Brahma-bhuta and not have to come back to earth?

> > >

> >

> >

> > May not have to, however Moksha(Kaivalya) is very very difficult

> to

> > achieve.

> >

> >

> > > 3. Last, what effects do the Graha's have in these lokas? I

> > > will assume karma is still in affect.

> > >

> >

> >

> > I didnt understand this portion. The grahas hint the fruits of

the

> > previous birth. It is not that Grahas mould our life or take

stock

> of

> > our Karma. Karma manifests everywhere, everytime. Brahma does

> > creation, Vishnu does protection... It's the essence of this

world

> > (some say it's time...) Time to time, even Devas had to undergo

> > sufferings. Didnt Indra lost his position due to bad karma?

> >

> >

> > > I know its a bit asoteric, yet part of the continuium of our

> > > spiritual experience.

> > >

> > > Pranams

> > >

> > > Frank in San Diego

[Guest guest]

Hari Om

 

Namaste Saaji,

First let me say your feedback is always welcomed, as we try to

understand the world around us... It has been far a few between that

I have found anyone on this list foolish or arrogant.

 

I assume your Ra-Ke Dasa period intersting and perhaps

challanging... I am in Saturn-Ketu; Ketu is co-lord of Lagna ( Sco)

and plays a key role for me. Saturn-Ketu period has been

interesting for me also. Ketu the karaka of Moksha plays his role

lately and I enjoy it!

 

re: our topic of choice; one area of interest that I underatnd is

Krsna's instruction of remembering HIM...this is not in the typical

way we think. HE is asking us to be w/o the Three Guna's, absorbed

in the SELF. When he says remember me w/o distraction, it means one

that has esablished Paravairagya ( or supreme detatchment)- one is

fully absorbed in the SELF... what is SELF, the absolute; who is the

absolute? Krsna.

So, the notion of " trying " to remember HIM will not work. It is when

the SELF is established and part of ones daily life, and is there

7x24x365. It is not a " mood " or pretending, or trying to convience

yourself that you are " detatched " - this causes angst and puts you

further away from the goal.

 

MOre on this if you wish, yet Maharishi Patanjali lays out the

approach in his Yoga Sutras. The Upanishads try to re-enforce this,

that is, Self-realization; once this happens , and why I believe it

is worth pursuing, is that it natually establishes Rtambhara Prajana

Or unalloyed TRUTH.. you can only percieve truth. What a great way

to learn Jyotish!!!!

 

Pranams,

Frank in San Diego

 

 

varahamihira , " saaji kulangara " <saajik>

wrote:

> Om Subrahmanyaya Namah

>

> Namaste,

>

> A very quick note. I know that I am not enough to attempt your

topic,

> I took it only because no one replied. As I read on(the books) my

> views change. And I'm running Ra-Ke, if you find my words foolish

or

> arrogant, simply ignore them.

>

> Best Regards,

>

> Saaji

>

>

>

> varahamihira , " fls999999999 "

> <frank_in_sandiego@c...> wrote:

> > Tamu stotarah purvyam yathavida

> > Rtasya garbham janusa pipartana

> > Asya jananto nama cidvivaktana

> > Mahas te Visno sumatim bhajamahe

> > -----From the Rk Ved 2.2.26

>

> Thank you for this. My Sanskrit knowledge is very less. Veda is

the

> highest authority. In Vishnu SN the questions of Yudhishtira and

> subsquent answer by Bhishma also say this. But the glory of Lord

> Shiva in Shiva Purana and that of Devi in Devi Bhagavatam/Devi

> Mahatmyam are in same line. Ultimately everything is same. So say

> Krishna in Gita. (I'm this among this...) I dont remember fully,

> when one Asura did tapasya for boon from Lord Vishnu, Lord Shiva

was

> one who appeared. He said those who pray to Lord Vishnu is dear to

> me. Connecting all these, I cant agree that other dieties cant

offer

> Moksha or lower in grade. Faith is most important, we dont need

any

> authority. There is a place named Gokarna, where para-

> brahmam `appeared' in the form of cow as the devotee was told that

it

> is in such form. Faith gives wonderful results.

>

>

> >

> > Namaste Visti and Saaji,

> > thank you for your insights..this is truly an interesting topic

for

> > me.

>

> For me too.

>

>

> > The question on the Graha's Saaji was one of influence...

> > IF they inflence and carry out the actions of Narayan, then

> > in other loka's are they still in full force?

>

> I can only guess. There been/are people who can simply predict

> anything on Duta Lakshana and Nimittas. (for future birth also).

They

> dont have to look on horos. Grahas, the movements and their

position

> at the time of birth are a tool for us to delineate results. The

net

> results of our previous birth are shown by the planetary positions

at

> birth. If they are in good positions, we can think that the native

> has good karma in store, if not opposite. The horoscope shows

`Drida'

> results, while Gochara and AV shows `adrida'. One earns a position

in

> other worlds due to their merit, the time period is determined by

the

> strength of the karma. After that the changeover occurs. Pramanam

is

> Mahabharata. Pandavas(except Yud), after death had to spent

sometime

> in hell(for their slight bad karma), then in heaven after that

they

> merged with the respective Deva of which they were amsabhoota.

> Yudhishtira eventhough he was a'Dharma Raja' had to take a view of

> the hell since he did lie once in the battle field. Kauravas on

the

> other hand, spent their first portion in heaven (for their slight

> good karma), then they had to go to hell.Because they had slight

> portion of Good karma and large portion of bad karma.

>

> But In Kali Yuga things are said to be different. Even the highest

> sort of papa is nullified by reciting the name of lord

intentionally

> or EVEN unintentionally.

>

> >

> > AND - if one were on the spiritual pursuit of Dharmamegha (

Moksha)

> > then in upper lokas ones efforts I would hope would continue and

> > progress would be made, perhaps easier, w/o a body and

distractions

> > HENCE no need to come back to earth and continue the pursuit,

but

> > use the upper lokas as a spring board.

>

> My view I expressed in my last mail. So far, I could understand

that

> the real Moksha, where one atma merges with parabrhmam is very

very

> difficult to achieve. One can be a Rishi, a Dhruva who stands as a

> star, a Manu but this itself a normal soul cant even think of.

>

>

> >

> > The Gita clearly points out ones ability to drop the body at an

> > auspicious time, ones gati can be auspicious ( One in Light or

> sukla

> > and one in darkness or krsne - Chapter 8 points this out)

> >

> > Yet easy to attain is one of measure - Keshava suggests that the

> one

> > who rembers ME without deviation, He is easy to attain.

> > Deviaton = 7/x24/x365 days a year withour effort or trying.

>

> I dont think Krishna meant to remember him all the time. Virakti

is

> more important. Do karma without thinking about fruits, meditate.

> Once Narada asked Lord Narayana who's his greatest bhakta,

Narayana

> told there is one farmer who thinks him only once a day. Narada

was

> surprised, he himself recites his name throughout the day. Reason

was

> while we are busy we cant think abt anything else. You might have

> heard this described beautifully.

>

>

> > This State is enlightment...with full consciousness established,

> > unwavering Nirvitarka Samapatti, as Maharishi Patanjali calls it.

> > Where could one possibly go when Isvara-pranidhana is

established

> > unless to the higest place, without the possility of return.

> > This is possible on this planet, but can it be achieved w/o

> > a body ( lagna) to get this done in upper realms.

>

> I dont know.

>

>

> >

> > HENSE when we look at ones chart at departure, KETU must play

> > a key role here, as karaka of Moksha and if one finally makes

> > the destination to Krsna/Vishwarupa - so Jupiter/Ketu/Mercury

> > may influence? Thoughts?

>

> Logical.

>

> As per Varahamihira, Moksha is attained when all these fulfll

> 1) Lagna is in Last Navamsa

> 2) Jupiter is in deep exaltation in 1st/4th/6th/7th/8th/10th

> 3) all other planets are powerless

>

> This can be seen in Jataka or chart of departure. Some split this

> into two. Point two alone and Point 1 and 3. This is in Ch 23

which

> tells about the future state of the soul in short(apart from

this).

>

> Prasna Marga also might help. I dont know abt other texts which go

in

> detail on this portion. And I'm yet to read Sanjay Ji's and other

> articles in this regard.

>

> Seeing the charts of SriRamaparamahamsa etc we can form an

opinion.

> But in truth, for evolved souls, horos and actual results can have

> big variation. Once the transformation occurs horo has less

impact,

> even death is as per wish! Prasna is fine, that too in the hands

of a

> Daivajna .

>

> This is all I can tell u on ur topic. Thanks.

>

>

> >

> > Thank you again for listening.

> > Regards,

> > Frank in San Diego

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > varahamihira , " saaji kulangara "

> <saajik>

> > wrote:

> > > Om Subrahmanyaya Namah

> > >

> > > Namaste,

> > >

> > > My reply below.

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > >

> > > Saaji

> > >

> > >

> > > varahamihira , " fls999999999 "

> > > <frank_in_sandiego@c...> wrote:

> > > > Hari Om Namo Vishwarupya

> > > >

> > > > Namaste

> > > > I posted this last week and wondered if anyone has insight

into

> > the

> > > > mechanics of this, or if they heard Sanjayji dicuss...lots

of

> > open

> > > > ends in my mind on this.... that is:

> > > >

> > > > Sanjay comments on atma separating from mana at some stage

after

> > > > death, then reunites once the birth process

> > > > occurs for those that have not reached Kavalaya.

> > >

> > >

> > > I prefer to think otherwise. I think the mind only forgets

things

> > > while Atma being the silent spectator knows everything. Atma

> knows

> > > that we all are same, it's the mind that differentiate things.

As

> > you

> > > said in different worlds if we enjoy/suffer, mind should be

> > active,

> > > as nothing affects Atma(Gita). Hence mind should be active in

all

> > > levels in some way or other. And, some even say both are same.

> > There

> > > are incidents where people could remember their previous

births.

> > And,

> > > Abhimanyu could learn things even before he born in this

world.

> > >

> > > Writing to Sanjay Ji is the best thing to do.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > > What I do not understand,

> > > > 1. If from your merit you earn time in Surya Loka, Indraloka,

> > > > etc. What faculty of your being is experiencing these Lokas?

> > > > If the atma, manas and indriayas are not in tact?

> > > >

> > >

> > > The stories of Indra says he been jealous, feared, was kind

etc;

> > So

> > > with other demi gods. Even Lord Vishnu or Lord Siva doesn't

> spare.

> > > The worlds you said are simply higher platterns where things

are

> > > fine. The hells are also explained in Puranas, as you said,

how

> > could

> > > Atma suffer?

> > >

> > >

> > > > 2. If you are a Sanyas or on the path of Moksa, would his

> > > > practice not continued in these lokas and move one

> > > > further to Brahma-bhuta and not have to come back to earth?

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > > May not have to, however Moksha(Kaivalya) is very very

difficult

> > to

> > > achieve.

> > >

> > >

> > > > 3. Last, what effects do the Graha's have in these lokas? I

> > > > will assume karma is still in affect.

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I didnt understand this portion. The grahas hint the fruits of

> the

> > > previous birth. It is not that Grahas mould our life or take

> stock

> > of

> > > our Karma. Karma manifests everywhere, everytime. Brahma does

> > > creation, Vishnu does protection... It's the essence of this

> world

> > > (some say it's time...) Time to time, even Devas had to

undergo

> > > sufferings. Didnt Indra lost his position due to bad karma?

> > >

> > >

> > > > I know its a bit asoteric, yet part of the continuium of our

> > > > spiritual experience.

> > > >

> > > > Pranams

> > > >

> > > > Frank in San Diego