Guest guest Posted November 22, 2004 Report Share Posted November 22, 2004 Hare Rama Krsna Its good you don't believe that there IS Shunya, because it doesn't exist, that's the whole concept. Akash (space) was first to evolve, then when that space began to move it became vayu. Motion created time. Time is connected to Vayu (Shani). Time exists within Akash just like everything else does. Namah Sivaya Ajit Krishnan [astro] Monday, November 22, 2004 11:13 AM varahamihira RE: |Sri Varaha| Akasa Tattva ... hamsasso.aham .. Dear Frank, I do not believe there is any such thing as Shunya, but let me try to bring out one of the differences anyway. Shunya " exists " before any creation, when the creative potential is inert. Akasha exists after creation, when the creative potential is manifest. Everything that is created must also end. i.e. All of creation is continuously undergoing change. Another word for " change " is " time " . If there is no change in the world, " time " loses all meaning! Time (or change) only occurs in creation. This is why we often see the word " time-space " or " space-time " , because these concepts are strongly linked. Now, it might be helpful to think of it this way: - Where shunya " exists " , time (time-space) does not exist. - Where akasha exists, time (time-space) does exist. To loop in Jyotisha, lets think of Saturn. - He represents the creator as Brahma. - He represents time as Mahakala. - Indeed, he represents time-space itself :-) ajit fls999999999 [frank_in_sandiego] Monday, November 22, 2004 7:09 AM varahamihira Re: |Sri Varaha| Akasa Tattva Hari Om Freedom, thank you for your eamil... The decerning mind has difficulty with comparing and contrasting Akasha (* space) from vacuum. We can do this in words and am comfortable with it. For Akasha is everywhere and we are never in the same space twice, as our solar system moves around the center of the galaxy and as our whole galaxy moves within this universe. IN the final analysis all *this* is pure consciousness and some of its qualities manifest as the tattvas ( Akasha being closest to it due to its ubquity).... If you can help with an example or two on how vacuum is different from Akasha it would be helpful - as I see it, Vacuum is " space " or Sunya = to emptyiness, with everything removed from it, leaving pure space - to me that is pure akasha. I see Sunya used more in Madhyamika Buddihism, and akasha found more in the Ved. Your insights are welcomed on these qualities if you have time. Frank in San Diego varahamihira , " freedom " <freedom@s...> wrote: > Vacuum is sunya, emptiness, lack of akash or zero. From Shunya came akash, > then vayu then agni, jala and prthvi. Akash (space/ether) is something that > is, that exists, it is not vacuum. I think translations are harsh sometimes > and also relative to understanding. > > I think you are hitting the nail in the head when you say it is the > dimension holding everything else, it is the space that we exist in. It is > the space that is in us. It is the space that can be harmonious or > inharmonious. The Yoga of the time of birth is ruled by Jupiter, that planet > will show how well you interact with others (what space you are creating > with other people). > > So the akash of an individual can be observed by the harmony (or lack of) > around them. > > Jupiter relates to akash in that it is everywhere holding everything and in > everything. > > In Ayurvedic psychology the akash relates to the Atma, while the vayu > relates to the Chitta, and agni relates to the Buddhi, jala to the manas, > and Prthvi to the ahamkara; the five aspects of mind. Another name for > Jupiter which Parasara uses is Jiva. The Jivatma (individual soul) is seen > from Jupiter. According to Parasara the Sun represents the Sarvatma (the > soul of All). > > I would just share some recent thoughts: > > BKS Iyengar talks much about balancing the five elements with asana. He > constantly talks of creating Akasha in the body through proper alignment > which creates space in the muscles and joints. I recently saw a yogi/author > talking about creating Vayu in the joints; but air on a physical level is > vata and if this is in your joints you would have painful arthritis. Iyengar > speaks of Akash, not Vayu being created in the body. And he uses awareness > invoked from alignment to bring that Akasha into the body. > [so on a higher level it is not chitta that is being brought into the body, > it is atma that is being brought into the body, Jiva/Guru that is being > brought into the body. This awakens Pratibha (the inner Guru guiding you).] > fls999999999 [frank_in_sandiego@c...] > Sunday, November 21, 2004 3:02 PM > varahamihira > |Sri Varaha| Akasa Tattva > > > > Hari Om > > Namaste. > > We know that Akasa element is owned by Guru. Yet when one thinks of > Aksasa in general we think of space or vacuum. How can this have > influence on us as it is without dimension and is everywhere > throughout the cosmos? I fact it IS DIMENSION that holds everything > else. > Could it be when we think of Aksasa we need to look at: > Cidakasa or atma svarupa or conscious space; > Cittakasa or mind space; > Bhutakasa or element space and not just Aksasa on its own? > > For Guru to have influence , it must be more then vacuuum . > > Thoughts on this? > > Pranams, > Frank in San Diego > |Om Tat Sat| > http://www.varahamihira > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2004 Report Share Posted November 22, 2004 Dear Freedom, Would like your comments on the shloka "Om purnamadaH purnamidam purnaata purnamudachyate| purnasya purnamaadaaya purnamevavashishyate| Om ShantiH ShantiH ShantiH ||" from Ishavaasyopanishad. No doubt it relates to Purna, but my question is what is the form of the Purna which deducted from Purna is Purna? Does it not relate to the unmanifest, which is shunya? Chandrashekhar. freedom wrote: Hare Rama Krsna Its good you don't believe that there IS Shunya, because it doesn't exist, that's the whole concept. Akash (space) was first to evolve, then when that space began to move it became vayu. Motion created time. Time is connected to Vayu (Shani). Time exists within Akash just like everything else does. Namah Sivaya Ajit Krishnan [astro] Monday, November 22, 2004 11:13 AM varahamihira RE: |Sri Varaha| Akasa Tattva ... hamsasso.aham .. Dear Frank, I do not believe there is any such thing as Shunya, but let me try to bring out one of the differences anyway. Shunya "exists" before any creation, when the creative potential is inert. Akasha exists after creation, when the creative potential is manifest. Everything that is created must also end. i.e. All of creation is continuously undergoing change. Another word for "change" is "time". If there is no change in the world, "time" loses all meaning! Time (or change) only occurs in creation. This is why we often see the word "time-space" or "space-time", because these concepts are strongly linked. Now, it might be helpful to think of it this way: - Where shunya "exists", time (time-space) does not exist. - Where akasha exists, time (time-space) does exist. To loop in Jyotisha, lets think of Saturn. - He represents the creator as Brahma. - He represents time as Mahakala. - Indeed, he represents time-space itself :-) ajit fls999999999 [frank_in_sandiego] Monday, November 22, 2004 7:09 AM varahamihira Re: |Sri Varaha| Akasa Tattva Hari Om Freedom, thank you for your eamil... The decerning mind has difficulty with comparing and contrasting Akasha (* space) from vacuum. We can do this in words and am comfortable with it. For Akasha is everywhere and we are never in the same space twice, as our solar system moves around the center of the galaxy and as our whole galaxy moves within this universe. IN the final analysis all *this* is pure consciousness and some of its qualities manifest as the tattvas ( Akasha being closest to it due to its ubquity).... If you can help with an example or two on how vacuum is different from Akasha it would be helpful - as I see it, Vacuum is "space" or Sunya = to emptyiness, with everything removed from it, leaving pure space - to me that is pure akasha. I see Sunya used more in Madhyamika Buddihism, and akasha found more in the Ved. Your insights are welcomed on these qualities if you have time. Frank in San Diego varahamihira , "freedom" <freedom@s...> wrote: > Vacuum is sunya, emptiness, lack of akash or zero. From Shunya came akash, > then vayu then agni, jala and prthvi. Akash (space/ether) is something that > is, that exists, it is not vacuum. I think translations are harsh sometimes > and also relative to understanding. > > I think you are hitting the nail in the head when you say it is the > dimension holding everything else, it is the space that we exist in. It is > the space that is in us. It is the space that can be harmonious or > inharmonious. The Yoga of the time of birth is ruled by Jupiter, that planet > will show how well you interact with others (what space you are creating > with other people). > > So the akash of an individual can be observed by the harmony (or lack of) > around them. > > Jupiter relates to akash in that it is everywhere holding everything and in > everything. > > In Ayurvedic psychology the akash relates to the Atma, while the vayu > relates to the Chitta, and agni relates to the Buddhi, jala to the manas, > and Prthvi to the ahamkara; the five aspects of mind. Another name for > Jupiter which Parasara uses is Jiva. The Jivatma (individual soul) is seen > from Jupiter. According to Parasara the Sun represents the Sarvatma (the > soul of All). > > I would just share some recent thoughts: > > BKS Iyengar talks much about balancing the five elements with asana. He > constantly talks of creating Akasha in the body through proper alignment > which creates space in the muscles and joints. I recently saw a yogi/author > talking about creating Vayu in the joints; but air on a physical level is > vata and if this is in your joints you would have painful arthritis. Iyengar > speaks of Akash, not Vayu being created in the body. And he uses awareness > invoked from alignment to bring that Akasha into the body. > [so on a higher level it is not chitta that is being brought into the body, > it is atma that is being brought into the body, Jiva/Guru that is being > brought into the body. This awakens Pratibha (the inner Guru guiding you).] > > > > > > > > fls999999999 [frank_in_sandiego@c...] > Sunday, November 21, 2004 3:02 PM > varahamihira > |Sri Varaha| Akasa Tattva > > > > Hari Om > > Namaste. > > We know that Akasa element is owned by Guru. Yet when one thinks of > Aksasa in general we think of space or vacuum. How can this have > influence on us as it is without dimension and is everywhere > throughout the cosmos? I fact it IS DIMENSION that holds everything > else. > Could it be when we think of Aksasa we need to look at: > Cidakasa or atma svarupa or conscious space; > Cittakasa or mind space; > Bhutakasa or element space and not just Aksasa on its own? > > For Guru to have influence , it must be more then vacuuum . > > Thoughts on this? > > Pranams, > Frank in San Diego > > > > > > > > |Om Tat Sat| > http://www.varahamihira > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 Hare Rama Krsna It must relate to what is both manifest and what is unmanifest, All of it : ) To be more specific though would get into different schools of Vedanta, don’t you think? Namah Sivaya Chandrashekhar [boxdel] Monday, November 22, 2004 3:33 PM varahamihira Re: |Sri Varaha| Akasha Tattva Dear Freedom, Would like your comments on the shloka " Om purnamadaH purnamidam purnaata purnamudachyate| purnasya purnamaadaaya purnamevavashishyate| Om ShantiH ShantiH ShantiH || " from Ishavaasyopanishad. No doubt it relates to Purna, but my question is what is the form of the Purna which deducted from Purna is Purna? Does it not relate to the unmanifest, which is shunya? Chandrashekhar. freedom wrote: Hare Rama Krsna Its good you don't believe that there IS Shunya, because it doesn't exist, that's the whole concept. Akash (space) was first to evolve, then when that space began to move it became vayu. Motion created time. Time is connected to Vayu (Shani). Time exists within Akash just like everything else does. Namah Sivaya Ajit Krishnan [astro] Monday, November 22, 2004 11:13 AM varahamihira RE: |Sri Varaha| Akasa Tattva ... hamsasso.aham .. Dear Frank, I do not believe there is any such thing as Shunya, but let me try to bring out one of the differences anyway. Shunya " exists " before any creation, when the creative potential is inert. Akasha exists after creation, when the creative potential is manifest. Everything that is created must also end. i.e. All of creation is continuously undergoing change. Another word for " change " is " time " . If there is no change in the world, " time " loses all meaning! Time (or change) only occurs in creation. This is why we often see the word " time-space " or " space-time " , because these concepts are strongly linked. Now, it might be helpful to think of it this way: - Where shunya " exists " , time (time-space) does not exist. - Where akasha exists, time (time-space) does exist. To loop in Jyotisha, lets think of Saturn. - He represents the creator as Brahma. - He represents time as Mahakala. - Indeed, he represents time-space itself :-) ajit fls999999999 [frank_in_sandiego] Monday, November 22, 2004 7:09 AM varahamihira Re: |Sri Varaha| Akasa Tattva Hari Om Freedom, thank you for your eamil... The decerning mind has difficulty with comparing and contrasting Akasha (* space) from vacuum. We can do this in words and am comfortable with it. For Akasha is everywhere and we are never in the same space twice, as our solar system moves around the center of the galaxy and as our whole galaxy moves within this universe. IN the final analysis all *this* is pure consciousness and some of its qualities manifest as the tattvas ( Akasha being closest to it due to its ubquity).... If you can help with an example or two on how vacuum is different from Akasha it would be helpful - as I see it, Vacuum is " space " or Sunya = to emptyiness, with everything removed from it, leaving pure space - to me that is pure akasha. I see Sunya used more in Madhyamika Buddihism, and akasha found more in the Ved. Your insights are welcomed on these qualities if you have time. Frank in San Diego varahamihira , " freedom " <freedom@s...> wrote: > Vacuum is sunya, emptiness, lack of akash or zero. From Shunya came akash, > then vayu then agni, jala and prthvi. Akash (space/ether) is something that > is, that exists, it is not vacuum. I think translations are harsh sometimes > and also relative to understanding. > > I think you are hitting the nail in the head when you say it is the > dimension holding everything else, it is the space that we exist in. It is > the space that is in us. It is the space that can be harmonious or > inharmonious. The Yoga of the time of birth is ruled by Jupiter, that planet > will show how well you interact with others (what space you are creating > with other people). > > So the akash of an individual can be observed by the harmony (or lack of) > around them. > > Jupiter relates to akash in that it is everywhere holding everything and in > everything. > > In Ayurvedic psychology the akash relates to the Atma, while the vayu > relates to the Chitta, and agni relates to the Buddhi, jala to the manas, > and Prthvi to the ahamkara; the five aspects of mind. Another name for > Jupiter which Parasara uses is Jiva. The Jivatma (individual soul) is seen > from Jupiter. According to Parasara the Sun represents the Sarvatma (the > soul of All). > > I would just share some recent thoughts: > > BKS Iyengar talks much about balancing the five elements with asana. He > constantly talks of creating Akasha in the body through proper alignment > which creates space in the muscles and joints. I recently saw a yogi/author > talking about creating Vayu in the joints; but air on a physical level is > vata and if this is in your joints you would have painful arthritis. Iyengar > speaks of Akash, not Vayu being created in the body. And he uses awareness > invoked from alignment to bring that Akasha into the body. > [so on a higher level it is not chitta that is being brought into the body, > it is atma that is being brought into the body, Jiva/Guru that is being > brought into the body. This awakens Pratibha (the inner Guru guiding you).] > > > > > > > > fls999999999 [frank_in_sandiego@c...] > Sunday, November 21, 2004 3:02 PM > varahamihira > |Sri Varaha| Akasa Tattva > > > > Hari Om > > Namaste. > > We know that Akasa element is owned by Guru. Yet when one thinks of > Aksasa in general we think of space or vacuum. How can this have > influence on us as it is without dimension and is everywhere > throughout the cosmos? I fact it IS DIMENSION that holds everything > else. > Could it be when we think of Aksasa we need to look at: > Cidakasa or atma svarupa or conscious space; > Cittakasa or mind space; > Bhutakasa or element space and not just Aksasa on its own? > > For Guru to have influence , it must be more then vacuuum . > > Thoughts on this? > > Pranams, > Frank in San Diego > > > > > > > > |Om Tat Sat| > http://www.varahamihira > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 Dear Freedom, You are wise, and have nicely sidestepped the question. Yes, it would lead to more specific definition of Shunya, though not necessarily different schools of Vedanta;, which is not merely zero as is assumed by many. Chandrashekhar. freedom wrote: Hare Rama Krsna It must relate to what is both manifest and what is unmanifest, All of it : ) To be more specific though would get into different schools of Vedanta, don’t you think? Namah Sivaya Chandrashekhar [boxdel] Monday, November 22, 2004 3:33 PM To: varahamihira Re: |Sri Varaha| Akasha Tattva Dear Freedom, Would like your comments on the shloka "Om purnamadaH purnamidam purnaata purnamudachyate| purnasya purnamaadaaya purnamevavashishyate| Om ShantiH ShantiH ShantiH ||" from Ishavaasyopanishad. No doubt it relates to Purna, but my question is what is the form of the Purna which deducted from Purna is Purna? Does it not relate to the unmanifest, which is shunya? Chandrashekhar. freedom wrote: Hare Rama Krsna Its good you don't believe that there IS Shunya, because it doesn't exist, that's the whole concept. Akash (space) was first to evolve, then when that space began to move it became vayu. Motion created time. Time is connected to Vayu (Shani). Time exists within Akash just like everything else does. Namah Sivaya Ajit Krishnan [astro] Monday, November 22, 2004 11:13 AM varahamihira RE: |Sri Varaha| Akasa Tattva ... hamsasso.aham .. Dear Frank, I do not believe there is any such thing as Shunya, but let me try to bring out one of the differences anyway. Shunya "exists" before any creation, when the creative potential is inert. Akasha exists after creation, when the creative potential is manifest. Everything that is created must also end. i.e. All of creation is continuously undergoing change. Another word for "change" is "time". If there is no change in the world, "time" loses all meaning! Time (or change) only occurs in creation. This is why we often see the word "time-space" or "space-time", because these concepts are strongly linked. Now, it might be helpful to think of it this way: - Where shunya "exists", time (time-space) does not exist. - Where akasha exists, time (time-space) does exist. To loop in Jyotisha, lets think of Saturn. - He represents the creator as Brahma. - He represents time as Mahakala. - Indeed, he represents time-space itself :-) ajit fls999999999 [frank_in_sandiego] Monday, November 22, 2004 7:09 AM varahamihira Re: |Sri Varaha| Akasa Tattva Hari Om Freedom, thank you for your eamil... The decerning mind has difficulty with comparing and contrasting Akasha (* space) from vacuum. We can do this in words and am comfortable with it. For Akasha is everywhere and we are never in the same space twice, as our solar system moves around the center of the galaxy and as our whole galaxy moves within this universe. IN the final analysis all *this* is pure consciousness and some of its qualities manifest as the tattvas ( Akasha being closest to it due to its ubquity).... If you can help with an example or two on how vacuum is different from Akasha it would be helpful - as I see it, Vacuum is "space" or Sunya = to emptyiness, with everything removed from it, leaving pure space - to me that is pure akasha. I see Sunya used more in Madhyamika Buddihism, and akasha found more in the Ved. Your insights are welcomed on these qualities if you have time. Frank in San Diego varahamihira , "freedom" <freedom@s...> wrote: > Vacuum is sunya, emptiness, lack of akash or zero. From Shunya came akash, > then vayu then agni, jala and prthvi. Akash (space/ether) is something that > is, that exists, it is not vacuum. I think translations are harsh sometimes > and also relative to understanding. > > I think you are hitting the nail in the head when you say it is the > dimension holding everything else, it is the space that we exist in. It is > the space that is in us. It is the space that can be harmonious or > inharmonious. The Yoga of the time of birth is ruled by Jupiter, that planet > will show how well you interact with others (what space you are creating > with other people). > > So the akash of an individual can be observed by the harmony (or lack of) > around them. > > Jupiter relates to akash in that it is everywhere holding everything and in > everything. > > In Ayurvedic psychology the akash relates to the Atma, while the vayu > relates to the Chitta, and agni relates to the Buddhi, jala to the manas, > and Prthvi to the ahamkara; the five aspects of mind. Another name for > Jupiter which Parasara uses is Jiva. The Jivatma (individual soul) is seen > from Jupiter. According to Parasara the Sun represents the Sarvatma (the > soul of All). > > I would just share some recent thoughts: > > BKS Iyengar talks much about balancing the five elements with asana. He > constantly talks of creating Akasha in the body through proper alignment > which creates space in the muscles and joints. I recently saw a yogi/author > talking about creating Vayu in the joints; but air on a physical level is > vata and if this is in your joints you would have painful arthritis. Iyengar > speaks of Akash, not Vayu being created in the body. And he uses awareness > invoked from alignment to bring that Akasha into the body. > [so on a higher level it is not chitta that is being brought into the body, > it is atma that is being brought into the body, Jiva/Guru that is being > brought into the body. This awakens Pratibha (the inner Guru guiding you).] > > > > > > > > fls999999999 [frank_in_sandiego@c...] > Sunday, November 21, 2004 3:02 PM > varahamihira > |Sri Varaha| Akasa Tattva > > > > Hari Om > > Namaste. > > We know that Akasa element is owned by Guru. Yet when one thinks of > Aksasa in general we think of space or vacuum. How can this have > influence on us as it is without dimension and is everywhere > throughout the cosmos? I fact it IS DIMENSION that holds everything > else. > Could it be when we think of Aksasa we need to look at: > Cidakasa or atma svarupa or conscious space; > Cittakasa or mind space; > Bhutakasa or element space and not just Aksasa on its own? > > For Guru to have influence , it must be more then vacuuum . > > Thoughts on this? > > Pranams, > Frank in San Diego > > > > > > > > |Om Tat Sat| > http://www.varahamihira > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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