Chart of Shaukat Aziz (PM Pakistan)

March 10, 2005

Dear List,

Those interested in mundane astrology and celebrities'

chart would find the horoscope of Shaukat Aziz, prime

minister of Pakistan, as an interesting addition in

their folder.

March 6, 1949

Time: 9:53:00 am

Time Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT)

Place: 67 E 03' 00 " , 24 N 52' 00 "

Karachi, Pakistan

Lagna 11 Ar 43' 29.25 " Aswi 4

Sun - MK 22 Aq 08' 28.92 " PBha 1

Moon - DK 0 Ta 51' 10.39 " Krit 2

Mars - BK 24 Aq 33' 29.46 " PBha 2

Mercury - AK 25 Cp 51' 23.55 " Dhan 1

Jupiter - GK 1 Cp 09' 47.55 " USha 2

Venus - PiK 11 Aq 34' 58.27 " Sata 2

Saturn ® - PK 8 Le 39' 21.79 " Magh 3

Rahu - AmK 4 Ar 53' 44.02 " Aswi 2

Ketu 4 Li 53' 44.02 " Chit 4

Rasi

+--------------+

| \ HL / \ / |

| \ Mo / \ / |

| \ / \ / |

| \ / Ra \ / |

| \ / \ / Ve |

| x As x Ma Su |

| / \ / \ |

| / Gk \ 1 / Ju \ |

| / \ / \ |

| Md x Me |

| \ / \ / |

|SaR GL x Ke x AL |

| / \ / \ |

+--------------+

His chart reveals many unique planetary combinations.

Most of the planets are occupied in panaphara bhavas

(2,5,8,11). Note the vacant trik (6th, 8th, 12th)

bhavas. He is graduate of IBA Karachi University and a

world renowned banker. The 10th house is tenanted by

Jupiter and Mercury while 10th lord Saturn is into

navamsha of Mercury, and falls in Deva amsa. Rahu as

Amatya karaka and the producer of Raja-Sambhanda

yogada, gave services in international institutions

during its maha dasha.

As mentioned earlier, many planets are in panaphara

(2,5,8,11) from lagna but the picutre reverse if seen

from AL. That is, most of planets are in Apoklima

(3,6,9,12). This contrast, speaks a person, who is

socially perceives as humble and knowledgable but

infact who is very persistant, parsimonious and

wealthy.

He rose exponentially in the Jupiter maha dasha

(1988-2004). Initial two phases (i.e. first 6 antar

dasas) in Jupiter maha dasha gave him professional

success and he attaied the post of Executive Vice

President of City Bank USA. While the last phase of

Jupiter dasha yielded him ministerial status. In

Jupiter-Moon (November 1999) he became Finance

Minister. Though Jupiter is debiliated in 10th house,

but there exists Neech Bhanga yoga as Venus (and also

Mars) are placed in angle from the exalted Moon. In

the year 2001 (Jup-Mar), he was declared 'World

Finance Minister of the Year' by Euromoney and

Banker's Magazine.

Amazingly, the theory of Tara pretends ineffective

here. Jupiter not only lords the inauspicious Pratyak

tara (5th star from Moon's star) but also placed in

trine to Janma tara(1st start). Though sign-wise

Jupiter is very weak in many vargas. But it is closely

connected with the Moon, both in Rashi and Navamsha.

In my humble view, the notion of dispositor works well

here. Sign dispositor, Nakshatar dispositor, and Amsha

dispositor are stand for physical, mental and

spiritual trinity.

Jupiter's Sign Dispositor: Saturn

Jupiter's Nakshatra Dispositor: Saturn

Jupiter's Amsa Dispositor: Sun

Here neither of the dispositor is in dushtan bhava or

weak, and both Saturn and Sun are involved in

parivartana. Hence Jupiter maha dasha resulted in all

around auspiciousness and abundance of wealth.

The beginning of Saturn maha dasha led to an

unexpected rise. When he was nominated for the

position of Prime Minister after the resignation of

Zafarullah Khan Jamali on June 6, 2004, and became

Prime Minister on August 28, 2004, in Sat-Sat-Sat. At

the same time transit Jupiter was entered in his 5th

house-Virgo from the radix Moon.

Saturn is making sign-interchange (rashi-parivartan)

with the Sun. The interchange b/w trinal and quadrant

lords results in Maha yoga (one of the 3 types of

parivartana yogas). Therefor in Saturn dasha he would

probabily get the effect of Leo-Sun. But it is also a

matter of fact that parivartana b/w natural enemies is

not a desirable combination, as they bring mental

agony and inner dis-satisfaction. As a result, on July

29, 2004, he survived an assassination attempt in the

town of Fateh Jang during election campaign, when

Sat-Sat-Sat-Sun was running.

In Rashi, Saturn as Putra-karak is placed in 7th

Atma-karak Mercury, and trine to Amatya karaka Rahu.

It again becomes yogada due to its association with GL

and HL. It is conjoined with GL (power, status) and

cast rashi drishti to Lagna and graha drishti to HL.

While in D-10 chart, exalted Saturn as dashamsa

shubpati, occupied in kendara to AL, D-10 lagna and

the Moon. All these factors tell his story of success.

An another astonishing matter is that he got status,

ministership and power during second Sade Sati ! This

is a puzzle, I am unable to solve. May be experts

better explain the reason.

Regards,

M.Imran

(Karachi)

March 11, 2005

Dear Imran,

Thanks for this interesting chart. Sadesathe or Elarata influence

depends on the strength and placement of Moon and Saturn. And also

the strength of the chart and Dasa running. According to Dr Raman ,

The first cycle of elarata is bad, second not so bad or even good and

third normally cause death. Not all 7 ½ years are bad, this depends

on the Moon sign.

I had my first cycle of elarata, except 2 years when I suffered much

due to ill health and enemies(my ego), I never felt I was running

elarata. This in spite of my running Rahu Dasa which also blesses me

with knowledge and a good, peaceful life. For another person I'm

seeing the first cycle itself has no effect, the person got into

Engineering with scholarship and doing well. Another guy had a bad

Rahu dasa running, ended up in huge losses in business, death of

mother etc;. I see smooth sailing in the second cycle for another

person with occasional disturbances which were more before

Sadesathe : ) My grand father's younger brother expired last year, in

the third cycle end. The period was not good health wise.

Best Regards,

Saaji

varahamihira , Muhammad Imran <astroimran>

wrote:

> Dear List,

>

> Those interested in mundane astrology and celebrities'

> chart would find the horoscope of Shaukat Aziz, prime

> minister of Pakistan, as an interesting addition in

> their folder.

>

> March 6, 1949

> Time: 9:53:00 am

> Time Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT)

> Place: 67 E 03' 00 " , 24 N 52' 00 "

> Karachi, Pakistan

>

> Lagna 11 Ar 43' 29.25 " Aswi 4

> Sun - MK 22 Aq 08' 28.92 " PBha 1

> Moon - DK 0 Ta 51' 10.39 " Krit 2

> Mars - BK 24 Aq 33' 29.46 " PBha 2

> Mercury - AK 25 Cp 51' 23.55 " Dhan 1

> Jupiter - GK 1 Cp 09' 47.55 " USha 2

> Venus - PiK 11 Aq 34' 58.27 " Sata 2

> Saturn ® - PK 8 Le 39' 21.79 " Magh 3

> Rahu - AmK 4 Ar 53' 44.02 " Aswi 2

> Ketu 4 Li 53' 44.02 " Chit 4

>

> Rasi

> +--------------+

> | \ HL / \ / |

> | \ Mo / \ / |

> | \ / \ / |

> | \ / Ra \ / |

> | \ / \ / Ve |

> | x As x Ma Su |

> | / \ / \ |

> | / Gk \ 1 / Ju \ |

> | / \ / \ |

> | Md x Me |

> | \ / \ / |

> |SaR GL x Ke x AL |

> | / \ / \ |

> +--------------+

>

> His chart reveals many unique planetary combinations.

> Most of the planets are occupied in panaphara bhavas

> (2,5,8,11). Note the vacant trik (6th, 8th, 12th)

> bhavas. He is graduate of IBA Karachi University and a

> world renowned banker. The 10th house is tenanted by

> Jupiter and Mercury while 10th lord Saturn is into

> navamsha of Mercury, and falls in Deva amsa. Rahu as

> Amatya karaka and the producer of Raja-Sambhanda

> yogada, gave services in international institutions

> during its maha dasha.

>

> As mentioned earlier, many planets are in panaphara

> (2,5,8,11) from lagna but the picutre reverse if seen

> from AL. That is, most of planets are in Apoklima

> (3,6,9,12). This contrast, speaks a person, who is

> socially perceives as humble and knowledgable but

> infact who is very persistant, parsimonious and

> wealthy.

>

> He rose exponentially in the Jupiter maha dasha

> (1988-2004). Initial two phases (i.e. first 6 antar

> dasas) in Jupiter maha dasha gave him professional

> success and he attaied the post of Executive Vice

> President of City Bank USA. While the last phase of

> Jupiter dasha yielded him ministerial status. In

> Jupiter-Moon (November 1999) he became Finance

> Minister. Though Jupiter is debiliated in 10th house,

> but there exists Neech Bhanga yoga as Venus (and also

> Mars) are placed in angle from the exalted Moon. In

> the year 2001 (Jup-Mar), he was declared 'World

> Finance Minister of the Year' by Euromoney and

> Banker's Magazine.

>

> Amazingly, the theory of Tara pretends ineffective

> here. Jupiter not only lords the inauspicious Pratyak

> tara (5th star from Moon's star) but also placed in

> trine to Janma tara(1st start). Though sign-wise

> Jupiter is very weak in many vargas. But it is closely

> connected with the Moon, both in Rashi and Navamsha.

> In my humble view, the notion of dispositor works well

> here. Sign dispositor, Nakshatar dispositor, and Amsha

> dispositor are stand for physical, mental and

> spiritual trinity.

>

> Jupiter's Sign Dispositor: Saturn

> Jupiter's Nakshatra Dispositor: Saturn

> Jupiter's Amsa Dispositor: Sun

>

> Here neither of the dispositor is in dushtan bhava or

> weak, and both Saturn and Sun are involved in

> parivartana. Hence Jupiter maha dasha resulted in all

> around auspiciousness and abundance of wealth.

>

> The beginning of Saturn maha dasha led to an

> unexpected rise. When he was nominated for the

> position of Prime Minister after the resignation of

> Zafarullah Khan Jamali on June 6, 2004, and became

> Prime Minister on August 28, 2004, in Sat-Sat-Sat. At

> the same time transit Jupiter was entered in his 5th

> house-Virgo from the radix Moon.

>

> Saturn is making sign-interchange (rashi-parivartan)

> with the Sun. The interchange b/w trinal and quadrant

> lords results in Maha yoga (one of the 3 types of

> parivartana yogas). Therefor in Saturn dasha he would

> probabily get the effect of Leo-Sun. But it is also a

> matter of fact that parivartana b/w natural enemies is

> not a desirable combination, as they bring mental

> agony and inner dis-satisfaction. As a result, on July

> 29, 2004, he survived an assassination attempt in the

> town of Fateh Jang during election campaign, when

> Sat-Sat-Sat-Sun was running.

>

> In Rashi, Saturn as Putra-karak is placed in 7th

> Atma-karak Mercury, and trine to Amatya karaka Rahu.

> It again becomes yogada due to its association with GL

> and HL. It is conjoined with GL (power, status) and

> cast rashi drishti to Lagna and graha drishti to HL.

> While in D-10 chart, exalted Saturn as dashamsa

> shubpati, occupied in kendara to AL, D-10 lagna and

> the Moon. All these factors tell his story of success.

>

> An another astonishing matter is that he got status,

> ministership and power during second Sade Sati ! This

> is a puzzle, I am unable to solve. May be experts

> better explain the reason.

>

> Regards,

>

> M.Imran

> (Karachi)

>

March 14, 2005

Dear Prabodh,

As I said, no one is forcing you. But you are being critical very heavily. We are like two trains who are passing by each other, but we can never meet. I think you don't even begin to see what we are getting at. There is no point in having this conversation. Ram Narayan, Visti, Sarajit, Lakshmi R, Partha...would you'll like to give him a hand? I have kept it very mild...but that too does not reach. Prabodh, it is not about being a duffer, or a Brahmin, or trading 'secrets' of the parampara...

And I would repeat again, this is not the forum for this discussion. I am forwarding this to Varahamihira.

Best regards,

Sarbani

Prabodh Vekhande [prabodh.wekhande] Monday, March 14, 2005 12:05 PMvedic astrology Subject: Re: [vedic astrology] Re: Chart of Shaukat Aziz (PM Pakistan)

Dear Sarabani NamasteI am sure I will take much more time than what a average jyotisha learner here will take to understand what you say! I am a born duffer! But the fact remains that some compulson is surly there. See the statements made earlier as to understand the AK as Rahu one must have some sadhana. You as well said that sadhana is required to understand and digest pure satvik knowledge. So in a way approach was to say that certain aspect of Jyotish can not be understood without some kind of Sadhana. By saying this it becomes clear to the uninitiated that Sadhana is a must to learn good and true Jyotish. And invariably the Sadhana will mean some religious ritual. This argument is so attractive and magnetic that many will believe it and start cursing themselves even if they are expirenced jyotisha and not following any kind of Sadhana and slowly devlope sense of guilt.I made it clear earlier as well that I am not against Parampara and practicing spirituality. I am very much part of the Parampara which Sanjayji started and respect it. But I am not able to underatnd the blanket statement about learning Jyotish and spirituality. To learn jyotish I dont think we require any sadhana rather learning Jyotish itself can be a Sadhana. Read every day some charts, discuss it with Gurus and get rectified and that way enhanced your knowledge every day is what is a Sadhana. Being religious is a matter of choice. Faith has no logic. Anybody can have faith on anything. We can not learn by suggesting some faith. It is andhashradha! So if one says that it is faith that we require sadhana to learn jyotish then it can not be further questioned as faith can not be questioned! Sanjay ji has taken pains to make university people understand the importance of Vedic Jyotish. In that case we should have had one separate subject on how to perform Sadhana to grasp jyotisha concept!I think it all depends on the Guru how to make any concept clear to his/her student. Student may be or may not be performing any kind of Sadhana. The student will understand if gets the proper Guru.As far as performing prayers it is a altogether different thing. You should perform your Nityapooja everyday(Nitya). It does not matter whether you are in Jyotish(Learning and Practicing) or not. That will help you to protect in every walk of your life. So Ganesh Vandana or chanting mantra of your Ista is good for everybody so that HIS blessings will be there.It is surprising to note that Partha has powerful lagna lord aspecting Lagna from 5th house and still he maintains his 'Parent' state. He should get well soon to be in 'Adult' state.Thanks a lot for your Time and Sapce.Prabodh VekhandeJai Jai ShankarHar Har ShankarSarbani Sarkar wrote:> /Hare Rama Krishna/> Dear Prabodh,> > ...and maybe *you *will realize one day what we are trying to say. I > don't think you have quite grasped what it is that we are trying to > convey. Firstly, nobody has made it compulsory. Nobody is forcing you > or others. But you are forcing us! We are merely stating a point of > view. Maybe Partha put across his viewpoint directly; but then he is > Dhanu lagna with a powerful Jupiter-Ketu in the fifth house. Have you > ever heard Sanjayji or any other jyotish guru say this to you in all > the many times you have met them? Yet, when I attended his classes > some years back, he drilled into us day in and out that we should > never do jyotish without praying to our ishta devata each morning. > Subsequently we learnt the importance of doing guru pranam, of > worshipping Ganesha and Surya. Eventually of course the importance of > doing our parampara mantra; so that we are always protected and > blessed. For it with their blessings that we can channelise the right > knowledge in a right manner; that our /dhi/ be forever in the right > direction. Of course there are other astrologers who do not require > any spiritual base or blessings to make perfect predictions and > acquire the best knowledge. That is their choice. They view the > subject in a different light or perhaps they do not require it. I did > not belong to a jyotish parampara. But now I do and I am fortunate to > do so, and it was my choice to attach myself to a parampara. If I > wanted, I need not have done so. Prabodh, please note this matter of > choice. You and many others may not to this viewpoint. That > is perfectly all right. It is your choice. It is the way you look at > the universe. There is nothing wrong with it. That is why we have so > many different jyotish schools today. But you cannot denigrate a path > that you do not adhere to. It is like explaining faith to > atheists. Yet I will say, you forget jyotish is para vidya. And yes, I > believe jyotish is entirely about spirituality. Now there is a hint > there and i don't expect you to pursue it. Just the way Partha gave a > hint. And no, it is not about Brahmanism and secrets. It is about a > very pure 'para' vidya, a body of knowledge that can lead to > atmagyana. And yes, there are many here, who will do severe sadhana > for this...> > Best regards,> > Sarbani> >> ------> ** Prabodh Vekhande [prabodh.wekhande]> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2005 12:03 AM> *To:* vedic astrology > *Subject:* Re: [vedic astrology] Re: Chart of Shaukat Aziz (PM Pakistan)>> Dear Sarbani Namaste> I appriciate the Sadhana/Parampara/Worship and understand the importance> of it but I am not too convinced that Sadhana is absolutly essential to> understand the true knowledge of Jyotish. By suggesting that possibly we> are classifying ourselves from rest of the world and trying to have> upper hand in the process of Jyotish learning. There must be many who> must be equally good in Jyotish learning and predictions as well but who> may not be from any specific Jyotish Parampara or practicing any kind of> sadhana. It would be proper to suggest Sadhana if anybody is interested> in Adhyatma. If anybody wants to answer the very basic spiritual> questions like "Kimidam","Koaham","Kuta aayataH" then really it is a> must to get into some kind of sadhana. But making this compulsory in> Jyotisha is not justified. As tomorrow some one from the Chemistry> stream will come up and say that to understand true knowledge of Organic> Chemeistry one must do some kind of Sadhana. Since you are not> practicing Sadhana in his opinion you can never get true knowledge!> Moreover,as Adhyatama is applicable in some manner in every subject it> would be essential to teach Adhyatma in all streams of knowledge. The> knowledge should be such that it should not pose any preconditions of> personal nature(Sadhana falls in personal domain) for grasping it. May> be you(and he as well) will appriciate my point of view one day! Yes I> agree that Partha is fearless and has courage to think aloud!>> Thanks a lot for your Time and Sapce.>> Prabodh Vekhande> Jai Jai Shankar> Har Har Shankar>>> Sarbani Sarkar wrote:>> > Dear Prabodh,> > > > Namaskar. Of course all of us make mistakes. He is a jyotish guru with> > SJC. I don't think he was a making a casual comment. That is what I> > was trying to point out. But perhaps you should take up this question> > with Sanjayji and others, as he and many of us believe, that sadhana> > is required if you should wish to have the entire body of satvik> > knowledge and digest it. Proper worship/sadhana can ensure that we get> > the blessings of the rishis, the parampara and the gods. Without this> > blessing, I am afraid we cannot really gain true knowledge. This is> > not medievalism. It is faith. If you have faith, you will follow that> > path, no matter whether you are a Brahmin or not. I believe in it. It> > is a matter of choice. You do not have to believe in it. Normally we> > don't say this these things in front of everyone. Partha is fearless,> > so he did not hesitate to speak his mind. I agree with Partha on this> > but I would not have had the courage to say it in public. He was> > merely giving a hint to something much bigger. He was not saying that> > one must meditate on Rahu. I hope you take this in the right spirit.> > > > Best regards,> > > > Sarbani> > > >> > ------> > ** Prabodh Vekhande [prabodh.wekhande]> > *Sent:* Saturday, March 12, 2005 8:08 PM> > *To:* vedic astrology > > *Subject:* Re: [vedic astrology] Re: Chart of Shaukat Aziz (PM Pakistan)> >> > Dear Sarabani Namaste> >> > I agree and know that he is a brilliant astrologer and student of> > Sanjayji but does that mean he can not commit mistakes?> >> > I understand the relationship of AK Rahu and person becoming spiritual> > but it was not required in my oinion to say that one requires to perform> > some kind of sadhana to understand the very basic nature of Rahu. The> > statement reads very attrictive and appeals to many but tendency is not> > productive to true learning of Jyotish. This what I felt and hence I> > wrote.> >> > Thanks a lot for your Time and Sapce.> >> > Prabodh Vekhande> > Jai Jai Shankar> > Har Har Shankar> >> >> > Sarbani Sarkar wrote:> >> > > Dear Prabodh,> > >> > > I agree with Partha entirely, who not only happens to be a brilliant> > > astrologer, but is one of our jyotish gurus as well...and student of> > > Sanjayji. Partha has given a hint here. Rahu can be extremely malefic> > > as AK, unless the person becomes spiritual. You may observe that many> > > spiritual leaders like Ramakrishna Paramahansa, Srila Prabhupada> > > etc. have Rahu as AK. The AK represents the jivatma, and is a spark of> > > the paramatma. Sun as the naisargika AK, represents the paramatma. See> > > what Parasara says: sarvatma cha divakara. The light of the Paramatma,> > > symbolically is white. This white gets refracted into the various> > > colours of the jivatma. What colour is your jivatma? Rahu is black; it> > > has the power to absorb all colours. If Rahu, the most malefic, as the> > > AK becomes favourable, what other misfortunes can the person suffer?> > > Hence if Rahu AK becomes positive, the native becomes very spiritual> > > indeed. > > >> > >> > > Best regards,> > >> > > Sarbani> > >> > >> > > > ------> > > ** V.Partha sarathy [partvinu]> > > *Sent:* Saturday, March 12, 2005 10:52 AM> > > *To:* vedic astrology > > > *Subject:* [vedic astrology] Re: Chart of Shaukat Aziz (PM Pakistan)> > >> > >> > > Hello Sir> > >> > > Does my mail say anything about tradition? Does my mail say anything> > > about religion? What is your problem . You dont even seem to have the> > > patience to read the mails properly,. All i said was one has to do> > > sadhana to understand rahu. It is only an opinion. What is there to> > > crib about.> > > best wishes> > > partha> > >> > >> > > vedic astrology , Prabodh Vekhande> > > <prabodh.wekhande@g...> wrote:> > > > Earlier people used to say that for accurate and consistant> > > predictions> > > > one should be religious and little bit spiritual. But people now> > > have> > > > become so casual in use of words that they have started suggesting> > > > spiritual(Sadhana) approach towards learning jyotish as well! So> > > the> > > > person who is from the tradition will be naturally considered as> > > > 'spiritual' and hence qualifies to understand advanced spiritual> > > aspects> > > > of Vedic Jyotish! Others not from the traditions will be naturally> > > > disqualified! What a simple logic? I think this is jaundiced eye> > > vision.> > > >> > > > Very soon we will have Advanced Spiritual Vedic Astrology(ASVA)!> > > >> > > > Thanks a lot for your Time and Space.> > > >> > > > Prabodh Vekhande> > > > Jai Jai Shankar> > > > Har Har Shankar> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > V.Partha sarathy wrote:> > > >> > > > >This debate has been raged for the last few years, it is a futile> > > > >attempt to convince the "other school" of the thoughts of one> > > school.> > > > >People who follow 8 karaka scheme will continue to follow it. Rahu> > > as> > > > >AK cannot be understood unless one has done some type of sadhana> > > > >best> > > > >partha> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >vedic astrology , Panditji <navagraha@g...>> > > > >wrote:> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>Namaste,> > > > >>> > > > >>I had wanted to talk about 7 chara karaka scheme. However, I do> > > not> > > > >>have the shloka to back up the seven karaka scheme. I leaned from> > > my> > > > >>jyotish guru that one must use only seven karakas. Now one has to> > > be> > > > >>careful, when I say say seven karakas , I really mean seven> > > > >>karakatwas. One may have to use 8 karakas but only seven> > > karakatwas> > > > >>exist. Let me explain...The anomaly is because of rahu. Should> > > rahu> > > > >> > > > > >>> > > > >be> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>used as one of the karakas ? Jaimini has said ( Again please> > > don't> > > > >> > > > > >>> > > > >ask> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>me to quote the shloka, as I can not and I am paraphrasing what I> > > > >> > > > > >>> > > > >was> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>taught) Rahu CAN NOT be atmakaraka. So whats the need for rahu to> > > be> > > > >>one of the karakas ? Well if two planets are at the smae degree> > > that> > > > >>can become atma karaka, then one needs to go to the minutes to> > > > >> > > > > >>> > > > >decide> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>who is atmakara. Now having done that the one that gets defeated> > > in> > > > >>this has to be discarded, now one only is left with a total of six> > > > >>karakas including the atmakaraka. So we have six karaakas and> > > seven> > > > >>karakatwas this is when and only when one brings in rahu. If the> > > > >>selection of atmakaraka does not eleminate one graha then one> > > will> > > > >> > > > > >>> > > > >not> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>need rahu. So in general scheme rahu is mostly not required.> > > > >>> > > > >>...> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 06:53:14 -0800 (PST), Muhammad Imran> > > > >><astroimran> wrote:> > > > >> > > > > >>> > > > >>>Praveen Kumar,> > > > >>>> > > > >>>As ususal, you seem skeptic. Here are the answers of> > > > >>>your arguments.> > > > >>>> > > > >>>The time of birth is quite certain as the native> > > > >>>himself told this. And I did not use parshan or wild> > > > >>>speculation to attain this birth time.> > > > >>>> > > > >>>Secondly, the time zone of Pakistan was not> > > > >>>immediately changed after independance, but it was> > > > >>>firstly redefined in 1951 and then in 1954.> > > > >>>> > > > >>>For the sake of your kind information, I am giving the> > > > >>>chronology of official time zone details for Pakistan.> > > > >>>> > > > >>>Time Zone Pakistan> > > > >>>-------------> > > > >>>Date/Time of Implementation Time Zone> > > > >>>-------------> > > > >>>01-Jan-1906, 12:00 am. 5:30 hours east of GMT> > > > >>>01-Sep-1942, 12:00 am. 6:30 hours east of GMT> > > > >>>15-Oct-1945, 12:00 am. 5:30 hours east of GMT> > > > >>>01-Sep-1951, 12:00 am. 4:30 hours east of GMT> > > > >>>01-May-1954, 12:00 am. 5:00 hours east of GMT> > > > >>>06-Apr-2002, 12:00 am. 6:00 hours east of GMT> > > > >>>01-Oct-2002, 12:00 am. 5:00 hours east of GMT> > > > >>>-------------> > > > >>>> > > > >>>Apart from it, this may possible that 8 chara karaka> > > > >>>scheme did not work in your experience. But if you> > > > >>>critique, then please let us enlighten the alternative> > > > >>>methodology with concrete foundation.> > > > >>>> > > > >>>You have opined that K.N.Rao's approach may prove> > > > >>>helpful in solving the puzzle of Sade-Sati. Ok, let me> > > > >>>explain the method, I will try unbiasedly and> > > > >>>impartially.> > > > >>>> > > > >>>Thanks,> > > > >>>> > > > >>>M.Imran> > > > >>>> > > > >>>--- Praveen Kumar <chunnu2001@v...> wrote:> > > > >>>> > > > >>> > > > > >>>> > > > >>>>First, are you sure about TOB ? What is the source ?> > > > >>>>Then, was the time zone for Pakistan 05:30 in 1949,> > > > >>>>even after independence as I know it to be 05:00 hrs> > > > >>>>now.> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>However, it appeals me, prima-facie. Give some> > > > >>>>non-political and personal events, if known. You can> > > > >>>>get solution to all your puzzles if you follow> > > > >>>>K.N.Rao's methods. Concepts like 8 Karakas, AL is> > > > >>>>perception etc are faulty in my opinion and> > > > >>>>experience. I feel you may fare as a brilliant> > > > >>>>astrologer.> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>Praveen Kumar (Mumbai)> > > > >>>> -> > > > >>>> Muhammad Imran> > > > >>>> vedic astrology ;> > > > >>>>hanskpvedic > > > > >>>> Cc: > > > > >>>> 10, 03, 2005 11:08 PM> > > > >>>> [vedic astrology] Chart of Shaukat Aziz> > > > >>>>(PM Pakistan)> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>> Dear List,> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>> Those interested in mundane astrology and> > > > >>>>celebrities'> > > > >>>> chart would find the horoscope of Shaukat Aziz,> > > > >>>>prime> > > > >>>> minister of Pakistan, as an interesting addition> > > > >>>>in> > > > >>>> their folder.> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>> March 6, 1949> > > > >>>> Time: 9:53:00 am> > > > >>>> Time Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT)> > > > >>>> Place: 67 E 03' 00", 24 N 52' 00"> > > > >>>> Karachi, Pakistan> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>> Lagna 11 Ar 43' 29.25" Aswi 4> > > > >>>> Sun - MK 22 Aq 08' 28.92" PBha 1> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>> Moon - DK 0 Ta 51' 10.39" Krit 2> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>> Mars - BK 24 Aq 33' 29.46" PBha 2> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>> Mercury - AK 25 Cp 51' 23.55" Dhan 1> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>> Jupiter - GK 1 Cp 09' 47.55" USha 2> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>> Venus - PiK 11 Aq 34' 58.27" Sata 2> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>> Saturn ® - PK 8 Le 39' 21.79" Magh 3> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>> Rahu - AmK 4 Ar 53' 44.02" Aswi 2> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>> Ketu 4 Li 53' 44.02" Chit 4> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>> Rasi> > > > >>>> +--------------+> > > > >>>> | \ HL / \ / |> > > > >>>> | \ Mo / \ / |> > > > >>>> | \ / \ / |> > > > >>>> | \ / Ra \ / |> > > > >>>> | \ / \ / Ve |> > > > >>>> | x As x Ma Su |> > > > >>>> | / \ / \ |> > > > >>>> | / \ / \ |> > > > >>>> | / \ / \ |> > > > >>>> | / Gk \ 1 / Ju \ |> > > > >>>> | / \ / \ |> > > > >>>> | Md x Me |> > > > >>>> | \ / \ / |> > > > >>>> | \ / \ / |> > > > >>>> | \ / \ / |> > > > >>>> | \ / \ / |> > > > >>>> | \ / \ / |> > > > >>>> |SaR GL x Ke x AL |> > > > >>>> | / \ / \ |> > > > >>>> | / \ / \ |> > > > >>>> | / \ / \ |> > > > >>>> | / \ / \ |> > > > >>>> | / \ / \ |> > > > >>>> +--------------+> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>> His chart reveals many unique planetary> > > > >>>>combinations.> > > > >>>> Most of the planets are occupied in panaphara> > > > >>>>bhavas> > > > >>>> (2,5,8,11). Note the vacant trik (6th, 8th, 12th)> > > > >>>> bhavas. He is graduate of IBA Karachi University> > > > >>>>and a> > > > >>>> world renowned banker. The 10th house is tenanted> > > > >>>>by> > > > >>>> Jupiter and Mercury while 10th lord Saturn is into> > > > >>>> navamsha of Mercury, and falls in Deva amsa. Rahu> > > > >>>>as> > > > >>>> Amatya karaka and the producer of Raja-Sambhanda> > > > >>>> yogada, gave services in international> > > > >>>>institutions> > > > >>>> during its maha dasha.> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>> As mentioned earlier, many planets are in> > > > >>>>panaphara> > > > >>>> (2,5,8,11) from lagna but the picutre reverse if> > > > >>>>seen> > > > >>>> from AL. That is, most of planets are in Apoklima> > > > >>>> (3,6,9,12). This contrast, speaks a person, who is> > > > >>>> socially perceives as humble and knowledgable but> > > > >>>> infact who is very persistant, parsimonious and> > > > >>>> wealthy.> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>> He rose exponentially in the Jupiter maha dasha> > > > >>>> (1988-2004). Initial two phases (i.e. first 6> > > > >>>>antar> > > > >>>> dasas) in Jupiter maha dasha gave him professional> > > > >>>> success and he attaied the post of Executive Vice> > > > >>>> President of City Bank USA. While the last phase> > > > >>>>of> > > > >>>> Jupiter dasha yielded him ministerial status. In> > > > >>>> Jupiter-Moon (November 1999) he became Finance> > > > >>>> Minister. Though Jupiter is debiliated in 10th> > > > >>>>house,> > > > >>>> but there exists Neech Bhanga yoga as Venus (and> > > > >>>>also> > > > >>>> Mars) are placed in angle from the exalted Moon.> > > > >>>>In> > > > >>>> the year 2001 (Jup-Mar), he was declared 'World> > > > >>>> Finance Minister of the Year' by Euromoney and> > > > >>>> Banker's Magazine.> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>> Amazingly, the theory of Tara pretends ineffective> > > > >>>> here. Jupiter not only lords the inauspicious> > > > >>>>Pratyak> > > > >>>> tara (5th star from Moon's star) but also placed> > > > >>>>in> > > > >>>> trine to Janma tara(1st start). Though sign-wise> > > > >>>> Jupiter is very weak in many vargas. But it is> > > > >>>>closely> > > > >>>> connected with the Moon, both in Rashi and> > > > >>>>Navamsha.> > > > >>>> In my humble view, the notion of dispositor works> > > > >>>>well> > > > >>>> here. Sign dispositor, Nakshatar dispositor, and> > > > >>>>Amsha> > > > >>>> dispositor are stand for physical, mental and> > > > >>>> spiritual trinity.> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>> Jupiter's Sign Dispositor: Saturn> > > > >>>> Jupiter's Nakshatra Dispositor: Saturn> > > > >>>> Jupiter's Amsa Dispositor: Sun> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>> Here neither of the dispositor is in dushtan bhava> > > > >>>>or> > > > >>>> weak, and both Saturn and Sun are involved in> > > > >>>> parivartana. Hence Jupiter maha dasha resulted in> > > > >>>>all> > > > >>>> around auspiciousness and abundance of wealth.> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>> The beginning of Saturn maha dasha led to an> > > > >>>> unexpected rise. When he was nominated for the> > > > >>>> position of Prime Minister after the resignation> > > > >>>>of> > > > >>>> Zafarullah Khan Jamali on June 6, 2004, and became> > > > >>>> Prime Minister on August 28, 2004, in Sat-Sat-Sat.> > > > >>>>At> > > > >>>> the same time transit Jupiter was entered in his> > > > >>>>5th> > > > >>>> house-Virgo from the radix Moon.> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>> Saturn is making sign-interchange> > > > >>>>(rashi-parivartan)> > > > >>>> with the Sun. The interchange b/w trinal and> > > > >>>>quadrant> > > > >>>> lords results in Maha yoga (one of the 3 types of> > > > >>>> parivartana yogas). Therefor in Saturn dasha he> > > > >>>>would> > > > >>>> probabily get the effect of Leo-Sun. But it is> > > > >>>>also a> > > > >>>> matter of fact that parivartana b/w natural> > > > >>>>enemies is> > > > >>>> not a desirable combination, as they bring mental> > > > >>>> agony and inner dis-satisfaction. As a result, on> > > > >>>>July> > > > >>>> 29, 2004, he survived an assassination attempt in> > > > >>>>the> > > > >>>> town of Fateh Jang during election campaign, when> > > > >>>> Sat-Sat-Sat-Sun was running.> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>> In Rashi, Saturn as Putra-karak is placed in 7th> > > > >>>> Atma-karak Mercury, and trine to Amatya karaka> > > > >>>>Rahu.> > > > >>>> It again becomes yogada due to its association> > > > >>>>with GL> > > > >>>> and HL. It is conjoined with GL (power, status)> > > > >>>>and> > > > >>>> cast rashi drishti to Lagna and graha drishti to> > > > >>>>HL.> > > > >>>> While in D-10 chart, exalted Saturn as dashamsa> > > > >>>> shubpati, occupied in kendara to AL, D-10 lagna> > > > >>>>and> > > > >>>> the Moon. All these factors tell his story of> > > > >>>>success.> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>> An another astonishing matter is that he got> > > > >>>>status,> > > > >>>> ministership and power during second Sade Sati !> > > > >>>>This> > > > >>>> is a puzzle, I am unable to solve. May be experts> > > > >>>> better explain the reason.> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>> Regards,> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>> M.Imran> > > > >>>> (Karachi)> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> Small Business - Try our new resources> > > > >>>>site!> > > > >>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > >>>> Archives:> > > > >>>>vedic astrology> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>> Group info:> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > >>>vedic astrology/info.html> > > > >>> > > > > >>>> > > > >>>> To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to> > > > >>>>vedic astrology-> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>> ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>> || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri> > > > >>>>Krishnaarpanamastu ||> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>

March 14, 2005

Dear Sarbaniji and Prabodh,

Firstly, the statement which started the thread has an error. 7

karaka scheme was advocated by Dr Raman also hence if we say Dr Raman

didn't have the necessary Sadhana to understand the 8 karaka scheme,

then I can only pinch myself. Some advocate 7 karaka scheme while

others 8 karaka, one should follow one's Guru. This is important in

all matters where the acharyas hold different views.

In such matters, it'd be better if we stop saying others are wrong,

except God or Godly persons, no one has perfect knowledge.

In Jyotish, Sadhana is very very important. See who were the first 18

acharyas and who were Satyacharya, Varahamihira etc; please also see

the conditions laid down for learning Jyotish and a true Jyotisha.

However, moderate success can be ensured without sadhana, with

supporting horo and Dasha.

Best Regards,

Saaji

varahamihira , " Sarbani Sarkar " <sarbani@s...>

wrote:

> Dear Prabodh,

>

> As I said, no one is forcing you. But you are being critical very

heavily.

> We are like two trains who are passing by each other, but we can

never meet.

> I think you don't even begin to see what we are getting at. There

is no

> point in having this conversation. Ram Narayan, Visti, Sarajit,

Lakshmi R,

> Partha...would you'll like to give him a hand? I have kept it very

> mild...but that too does not reach. Prabodh, it is not about being

a duffer,

> or a Brahmin, or trading 'secrets' of the parampara...

>

> And I would repeat again, this is not the forum for this

discussion. I am

> forwarding this to Varahamihira.

>

> Best regards,

>

> Sarbani

>

> _____

>

> Prabodh Vekhande [prabodh.wekhande@g...]

> Monday, March 14, 2005 12:05 PM

> vedic astrology

> Re: [vedic astrology] Re: Chart of Shaukat Aziz (PM

Pakistan)

>

> Dear Sarabani Namaste

>

> I am sure I will take much more time than what a average jyotisha

> learner here will take to understand what you say! I am a born

duffer!

> But the fact remains that some compulson is surly there. See the

> statements made earlier as to understand the AK as Rahu one must

have

> some sadhana. You as well said that sadhana is required to

understand

> and digest pure satvik knowledge. So in a way approach was to say

that

> certain aspect of Jyotish can not be understood without some kind

of

> Sadhana. By saying this it becomes clear to the uninitiated that

Sadhana

> is a must to learn good and true Jyotish. And invariably the

Sadhana

> will mean some religious ritual. This argument is so attractive and

> magnetic that many will believe it and start cursing themselves

even if

> they are expirenced jyotisha and not following any kind of Sadhana

and

> slowly devlope sense of guilt.

> I made it clear earlier as well that I am not against Parampara and

> practicing spirituality. I am very much part of the Parampara which

> Sanjayji started and respect it. But I am not able to underatnd the

> blanket statement about learning Jyotish and spirituality. To

learn

> jyotish I dont think we require any sadhana rather learning Jyotish

> itself can be a Sadhana. Read every day some charts, discuss it

with

> Gurus and get rectified and that way enhanced your knowledge every

day

> is what is a Sadhana. Being religious is a matter of choice. Faith

has

> no logic. Anybody can have faith on anything. We can not learn by

> suggesting some faith. It is andhashradha! So if one says that it

is

> faith that we require sadhana to learn jyotish then it can not be

> further questioned as faith can not be questioned! Sanjay ji has

taken

> pains to make university people understand the importance of Vedic

> Jyotish. In that case we should have had one separate subject on

how to

> perform Sadhana to grasp jyotisha concept!

> I think it all depends on the Guru how to make any concept clear to

> his/her student. Student may be or may not be performing any kind

of

> Sadhana. The student will understand if gets the proper Guru.

> As far as performing prayers it is a altogether different thing.

You

> should perform your Nityapooja everyday(Nitya). It does not matter

> whether you are in Jyotish(Learning and Practicing) or not. That

will

> help you to protect in every walk of your life. So Ganesh Vandana

or

> chanting mantra of your Ista is good for everybody so that HIS

blessings

> will be there.

>

> It is surprising to note that Partha has powerful lagna lord

aspecting

> Lagna from 5th house and still he maintains his 'Parent' state. He

> should get well soon to be in 'Adult' state.

>

> Thanks a lot for your Time and Sapce.

>

> Prabodh Vekhande

> Jai Jai Shankar

> Har Har Shankar

>

> Sarbani Sarkar wrote:

>

> > /Hare Rama Krishna/

> > Dear Prabodh,

> >

> > ...and maybe *you *will realize one day what we are trying to

say. I

> > don't think you have quite grasped what it is that we are trying

to

> > convey. Firstly, nobody has made it compulsory. Nobody is forcing

you

> > or others. But you are forcing us! We are merely stating a point

of

> > view. Maybe Partha put across his viewpoint directly; but then he

is

> > Dhanu lagna with a powerful Jupiter-Ketu in the fifth house. Have

you

> > ever heard Sanjayji or any other jyotish guru say this to you in

all

> > the many times you have met them? Yet, when I attended his

classes

> > some years back, he drilled into us day in and out that we should

> > never do jyotish without praying to our ishta devata each

morning.

> > Subsequently we learnt the importance of doing guru pranam, of

> > worshipping Ganesha and Surya. Eventually of course the

importance of

> > doing our parampara mantra; so that we are always protected and

> > blessed. For it with their blessings that we can channelise the

right

> > knowledge in a right manner; that our /dhi/ be forever in the

right

> > direction. Of course there are other astrologers who do not

require

> > any spiritual base or blessings to make perfect predictions and

> > acquire the best knowledge. That is their choice. They view the

> > subject in a different light or perhaps they do not require it. I

did

> > not belong to a jyotish parampara. But now I do and I am

fortunate to

> > do so, and it was my choice to attach myself to a parampara. If I

> > wanted, I need not have done so. Prabodh, please note this matter

of

> > choice. You and many others may not to this viewpoint.

That

> > is perfectly all right. It is your choice. It is the way you look

at

> > the universe. There is nothing wrong with it. That is why we have

so

> > many different jyotish schools today. But you cannot denigrate a

path

> > that you do not adhere to. It is like explaining faith to

> > atheists. Yet I will say, you forget jyotish is para vidya. And

yes, I

> > believe jyotish is entirely about spirituality. Now there is a

hint

> > there and i don't expect you to pursue it. Just the way Partha

gave a

> > hint. And no, it is not about Brahmanism and secrets. It is about

a

> > very pure 'para' vidya, a body of knowledge that can lead to

> > atmagyana. And yes, there are many here, who will do severe

sadhana

> > for this...

> >

> > Best regards,

> >

> > Sarbani

> >

------

> > ** Prabodh Vekhande [prabodh.wekhande@g...]

> > *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2005 12:03 AM

> > *To:* vedic astrology

> > *Subject:* Re: [vedic astrology] Re: Chart of Shaukat Aziz (PM

Pakistan)

> >

> > Dear Sarbani Namaste

> > I appriciate the Sadhana/Parampara/Worship and understand the

importance

> > of it but I am not too convinced that Sadhana is absolutly

essential to

> > understand the true knowledge of Jyotish. By suggesting that

possibly we

> > are classifying ourselves from rest of the world and trying to

have

> > upper hand in the process of Jyotish learning. There must be many

who

> > must be equally good in Jyotish learning and predictions as well

but who

> > may not be from any specific Jyotish Parampara or practicing any

kind of

> > sadhana. It would be proper to suggest Sadhana if anybody is

interested

> > in Adhyatma. If anybody wants to answer the very basic spiritual

> > questions like " Kimidam " , " Koaham " , " Kuta aayataH " then really it

is a

> > must to get into some kind of sadhana. But making this compulsory

in

> > Jyotisha is not justified. As tomorrow some one from the Chemistry

> > stream will come up and say that to understand true knowledge of

Organic

> > Chemeistry one must do some kind of Sadhana. Since you are not

> > practicing Sadhana in his opinion you can never get true

knowledge!

> > Moreover,as Adhyatama is applicable in some manner in every

subject it

> > would be essential to teach Adhyatma in all streams of knowledge.

The

> > knowledge should be such that it should not pose any

preconditions of

> > personal nature(Sadhana falls in personal domain) for grasping

it. May

> > be you(and he as well) will appriciate my point of view one day!

Yes I

> > agree that Partha is fearless and has courage to think aloud!

> >

> > Thanks a lot for your Time and Sapce.

> >

> > Prabodh Vekhande

> > Jai Jai Shankar

> > Har Har Shankar

> >

> > Sarbani Sarkar wrote:

> >

> > > Dear Prabodh,

> > >

> > > Namaskar. Of course all of us make mistakes. He is a jyotish

guru with

> > > SJC. I don't think he was a making a casual comment. That is

what I

> > > was trying to point out. But perhaps you should take up this

question

> > > with Sanjayji and others, as he and many of us believe, that

sadhana

> > > is required if you should wish to have the entire body of satvik

> > > knowledge and digest it. Proper worship/sadhana can ensure that

we get

> > > the blessings of the rishis, the parampara and the gods.

Without this

> > > blessing, I am afraid we cannot really gain true knowledge.

This is

> > > not medievalism. It is faith. If you have faith, you will

follow that

> > > path, no matter whether you are a Brahmin or not. I believe in

it. It

> > > is a matter of choice. You do not have to believe in it.

Normally we

> > > don't say this these things in front of everyone. Partha is

fearless,

> > > so he did not hesitate to speak his mind. I agree with Partha

on this

> > > but I would not have had the courage to say it in public. He was

> > > merely giving a hint to something much bigger. He was not

saying that

> > > one must meditate on Rahu. I hope you take this in the right

spirit.

> > >

> > > Best regards,

> > >

> > > Sarbani

> > >

> > > -------------------------------

--------

> > > ** Prabodh Vekhande [prabodh.wekhande@g...]

> > > *Sent:* Saturday, March 12, 2005 8:08 PM

> > > *To:* vedic astrology

> > > *Subject:* Re: [vedic astrology] Re: Chart of Shaukat Aziz (PM

Pakistan)

> > >

> > > Dear Sarabani Namaste

> > >

> > > I agree and know that he is a brilliant astrologer and student

of

> > > Sanjayji but does that mean he can not commit mistakes?

> > >

> > > I understand the relationship of AK Rahu and person becoming

spiritual

> > > but it was not required in my oinion to say that one requires

to perform

> > > some kind of sadhana to understand the very basic nature of

Rahu. The

> > > statement reads very attrictive and appeals to many but

tendency is not

> > > productive to true learning of Jyotish. This what I felt and

hence I

> > > wrote.

> > >

> > > Thanks a lot for your Time and Sapce.

> > >

> > > Prabodh Vekhande

> > > Jai Jai Shankar

> > > Har Har Shankar

> > >

> > > Sarbani Sarkar wrote:

> > >

> > > > Dear Prabodh,

> > > >

> > > > I agree with Partha entirely, who not only happens to be a

brilliant

> > > > astrologer, but is one of our jyotish gurus as well...and

student of

> > > > Sanjayji. Partha has given a hint here. Rahu can be extremely

malefic

> > > > as AK, unless the person becomes spiritual. You may observe

that many

> > > > spiritual leaders like Ramakrishna Paramahansa, Srila

Prabhupada

> > > > etc. have Rahu as AK. The AK represents the jivatma, and is a

spark of

> > > > the paramatma. Sun as the naisargika AK, represents the

paramatma. See

> > > > what Parasara says: sarvatma cha divakara. The light of the

Paramatma,

> > > > symbolically is white. This white gets refracted into the

various

> > > > colours of the jivatma. What colour is your jivatma? Rahu is

black; it

> > > > has the power to absorb all colours. If Rahu, the most

malefic, as the

> > > > AK becomes favourable, what other misfortunes can the person

suffer?

> > > > Hence if Rahu AK becomes positive, the native becomes very

spiritual

> > > > indeed.

> > > >

> > > > Best regards,

> > > >

> > > > Sarbani

> > > >

> >

------

> > > > ** V.Partha sarathy [partvinu@g...]

> > > > *Sent:* Saturday, March 12, 2005 10:52 AM

> > > > *To:* vedic astrology

> > > > *Subject:* [vedic astrology] Re: Chart of Shaukat Aziz (PM

Pakistan)

> > > >

> > > > Hello Sir

> > > >

> > > > Does my mail say anything about tradition? Does my mail say

anything

> > > > about religion? What is your problem . You dont even seem to

have the

> > > > patience to read the mails properly,. All i said was one has

to do

> > > > sadhana to understand rahu. It is only an opinion. What is

there to

> > > > crib about.

> > > > best wishes

> > > > partha

> > > >

> > > > vedic astrology , Prabodh Vekhande

> > > > <prabodh.wekhande@g...> wrote:

> > > > > Earlier people used to say that for accurate and consistant

> > > > predictions

> > > > > one should be religious and little bit spiritual. But

people now

> > > > have

> > > > > become so casual in use of words that they have started

suggesting

> > > > > spiritual(Sadhana) approach towards learning jyotish as

well! So

> > > > the

> > > > > person who is from the tradition will be naturally

considered as

> > > > > 'spiritual' and hence qualifies to understand advanced

spiritual

> > > > aspects

> > > > > of Vedic Jyotish! Others not from the traditions will be

naturally

> > > > > disqualified! What a simple logic? I think this is

jaundiced eye

> > > > vision.

> > > > >

> > > > > Very soon we will have Advanced Spiritual Vedic Astrology

(ASVA)!

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks a lot for your Time and Space.

> > > > >

> > > > > Prabodh Vekhande

> > > > > Jai Jai Shankar

> > > > > Har Har Shankar

> > > > >

> > > > > V.Partha sarathy wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > >This debate has been raged for the last few years, it is a

futile

> > > > > >attempt to convince the " other school " of the thoughts of

one

> > > > school.

> > > > > >People who follow 8 karaka scheme will continue to follow

it. Rahu

> > > > as

> > > > > >AK cannot be understood unless one has done some type of

sadhana

> > > > > >best

> > > > > >partha

> > > > > >

> > > > > >vedic astrology , Panditji

<navagraha@g...>

> > > > > >wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > >>Namaste,

> > > > > >>

> > > > > >>I had wanted to talk about 7 chara karaka scheme.

However, I do

> > > > not

> > > > > >>have the shloka to back up the seven karaka scheme. I

leaned from

> > > > my

> > > > > >>jyotish guru that one must use only seven karakas. Now

one has to

> > > > be

> > > > > >>careful, when I say say seven karakas , I really mean

seven

> > > > > >>karakatwas. One may have to use 8 karakas but only seven

> > > > karakatwas

> > > > > >>exist. Let me explain...The anomaly is because of rahu.

Should

> > > > rahu

> > > > > >>

> > > > > >be

> > > > > >

> > > > > >>used as one of the karakas ? Jaimini has said ( Again

please

> > > > don't

> > > > > >>

> > > > > >ask

> > > > > >

> > > > > >>me to quote the shloka, as I can not and I am

paraphrasing what I

> > > > > >>

> > > > > >was

> > > > > >

> > > > > >>taught) Rahu CAN NOT be atmakaraka. So whats the need for

rahu to

> > > > be

> > > > > >>one of the karakas ? Well if two planets are at the smae

degree

> > > > that

> > > > > >>can become atma karaka, then one needs to go to the

minutes to

> > > > > >>

> > > > > >decide

> > > > > >

> > > > > >>who is atmakara. Now having done that the one that gets

defeated

> > > > in

> > > > > >>this has to be discarded, now one only is left with a

total of six

> > > > > >>karakas including the atmakaraka. So we have six karaakas

and

> > > > seven

> > > > > >>karakatwas this is when and only when one brings in rahu.

If the

> > > > > >>selection of atmakaraka does not eleminate one graha then

one

> > > > will

> > > > > >>

> > > > > >not

> > > > > >

> > > > > >>need rahu. So in general scheme rahu is mostly not

required.

> > > > > >>

> > > > > >>...

> > > > > >>

> > > > > >>On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 06:53:14 -0800 (PST), Muhammad Imran

> > > > > >><astroimran> wrote:

> > > > > >>

> > > > > >>>Praveen Kumar,

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>>As ususal, you seem skeptic. Here are the answers of

> > > > > >>>your arguments.

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>>The time of birth is quite certain as the native

> > > > > >>>himself told this. And I did not use parshan or wild

> > > > > >>>speculation to attain this birth time.

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>>Secondly, the time zone of Pakistan was not

> > > > > >>>immediately changed after independance, but it was

> > > > > >>>firstly redefined in 1951 and then in 1954.

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>>For the sake of your kind information, I am giving the

> > > > > >>>chronology of official time zone details for Pakistan.

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>>Time Zone Pakistan

> > > > > >>>-------------

> > > > > >>>Date/Time of Implementation Time Zone

> > > > > >>>-------------

> > > > > >>>01-Jan-1906, 12:00 am. 5:30 hours east of GMT

> > > > > >>>01-Sep-1942, 12:00 am. 6:30 hours east of GMT

> > > > > >>>15-Oct-1945, 12:00 am. 5:30 hours east of GMT

> > > > > >>>01-Sep-1951, 12:00 am. 4:30 hours east of GMT

> > > > > >>>01-May-1954, 12:00 am. 5:00 hours east of GMT

> > > > > >>>06-Apr-2002, 12:00 am. 6:00 hours east of GMT

> > > > > >>>01-Oct-2002, 12:00 am. 5:00 hours east of GMT

> > > > > >>>-------------

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>>Apart from it, this may possible that 8 chara karaka

> > > > > >>>scheme did not work in your experience. But if you

> > > > > >>>critique, then please let us enlighten the alternative

> > > > > >>>methodology with concrete foundation.

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>>You have opined that K.N.Rao's approach may prove

> > > > > >>>helpful in solving the puzzle of Sade-Sati. Ok, let me

> > > > > >>>explain the method, I will try unbiasedly and

> > > > > >>>impartially.

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>>Thanks,

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>>M.Imran

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>>--- Praveen Kumar <chunnu2001@v...> wrote:

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>>>First, are you sure about TOB ? What is the source ?

> > > > > >>>>Then, was the time zone for Pakistan 05:30 in 1949,

> > > > > >>>>even after independence as I know it to be 05:00 hrs

> > > > > >>>>now.

> > > > > >>>>

> > > > > >>>>However, it appeals me, prima-facie. Give some

> > > > > >>>>non-political and personal events, if known. You can

> > > > > >>>>get solution to all your puzzles if you follow

> > > > > >>>>K.N.Rao's methods. Concepts like 8 Karakas, AL is

> > > > > >>>>perception etc are faulty in my opinion and

> > > > > >>>>experience. I feel you may fare as a brilliant

> > > > > >>>>astrologer.

> > > > > >>>>

> > > > > >>>>Praveen Kumar (Mumbai)

> > > > > >>>> -

> > > > > >>>> Muhammad Imran

> > > > > >>>> vedic astrology ;

> > > > > >>>>hanskpvedic

> > > > > >>>> Cc:

> > > > > >>>> 10, 03, 2005 11:08 PM

> > > > > >>>> [vedic astrology] Chart of Shaukat Aziz

> > > > > >>>>(PM Pakistan)

> > > > > >>>>

> > > > > >>>> Dear List,

> > > > > >>>>

> > > > > >>>> Those interested in mundane astrology and

> > > > > >>>>celebrities'

> > > > > >>>> chart would find the horoscope of Shaukat Aziz,

> > > > > >>>>prime

> > > > > >>>> minister of Pakistan, as an interesting addition

> > > > > >>>>in

> > > > > >>>> their folder.

> > > > > >>>>

> > > > > >>>> March 6, 1949

> > > > > >>>> Time: 9:53:00 am

> > > > > >>>> Time Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT)

> > > > > >>>> Place: 67 E 03' 00 " , 24 N 52' 00 "

> > > > > >>>> Karachi, Pakistan

> > > > > >>>>

> > > > > >>>> Lagna 11 Ar 43' 29.25 " Aswi 4

> > > > > >>>> Sun - MK 22 Aq 08' 28.92 " PBha 1

> > > > > >>>>

> > > > > >>>> Moon - DK 0 Ta 51' 10.39 " Krit 2

> > > > > >>>>

> > > > > >>>> Mars - BK 24 Aq 33' 29.46 " PBha 2

> > > > > >>>>

> > > > > >>>> Mercury - AK 25 Cp 51' 23.55 " Dhan 1

> > > > > >>>>

> > > > > >>>> Jupiter - GK 1 Cp 09' 47.55 " USha 2

> > > > > >>>>

> > > > > >>>> Venus - PiK 11 Aq 34' 58.27 " Sata 2

> > > > > >>>>

> > > > > >>>> Saturn ® - PK 8 Le 39' 21.79 " Magh 3

> > > > > >>>>

> > > > > >>>> Rahu - AmK 4 Ar 53' 44.02 " Aswi 2

> > > > > >>>>

> > > > > >>>> Ketu 4 Li 53' 44.02 " Chit 4

> > > > > >>>>

> > > > > >>>> Rasi

> > > > > >>>> +--------------+

> > > > > >>>> | \ HL / \ / |

> > > > > >>>> | \ Mo / \ / |

> > > > > >>>> | \ / \ / |

> > > > > >>>> | \ / Ra \ / |

> > > > > >>>> | \ / \ / Ve |

> > > > > >>>> | x As x Ma Su |

> > > > > >>>> | / \ / \ |

> > > > > >>>> | / Gk \ 1 / Ju \ |

> > > > > >>>> | / \ / \ |

> > > > > >>>> | Md x Me |

> > > > > >>>> | \ / \ / |

> > > > > >>>> |SaR GL x Ke x AL |

> > > > > >>>> | / \ / \ |

> > > > > >>>> +--------------+

> > > > > >>>>

> > > > > >>>> His chart reveals many unique planetary

> > > > > >>>>combinations.

> > > > > >>>> Most of the planets are occupied in panaphara

> > > > > >>>>bhavas

> > > > > >>>> (2,5,8,11). Note the vacant trik (6th, 8th, 12th)

> > > > > >>>> bhavas. He is graduate of IBA Karachi University

> > > > > >>>>and a

> > > > > >>>> world renowned banker. The 10th house is tenanted

> > > > > >>>>by

> > > > > >>>> Jupiter and Mercury while 10th lord Saturn is into

> > > > > >>>> navamsha of Mercury, and falls in Deva amsa. Rahu

> > > > > >>>>as

> > > > > >>>> Amatya karaka and the producer of Raja-Sambhanda

> > > > > >>>> yogada, gave services in international

> > > > > >>>>institutions

> > > > > >>>> during its maha dasha.

> > > > > >>>>

> > > > > >>>> As mentioned earlier, many planets are in

> > > > > >>>>panaphara

> > > > > >>>> (2,5,8,11) from lagna but the picutre reverse if

> > > > > >>>>seen

> > > > > >>>> from AL. That is, most of planets are in Apoklima

> > > > > >>>> (3,6,9,12). This contrast, speaks a person, who is

> > > > > >>>> socially perceives as humble and knowledgable but

> > > > > >>>> infact who is very persistant, parsimonious and

> > > > > >>>> wealthy.

> > > > > >>>>

> > > > > >>>> He rose exponentially in the Jupiter maha dasha

> > > > > >>>> (1988-2004). Initial two phases (i.e. first 6

> > > > > >>>>antar

> > > > > >>>> dasas) in Jupiter maha dasha gave him professional

> > > > > >>>> success and he attaied the post of Executive Vice

> > > > > >>>> President of City Bank USA. While the last phase

> > > > > >>>>of

> > > > > >>>> Jupiter dasha yielded him ministerial status. In

> > > > > >>>> Jupiter-Moon (November 1999) he became Finance

> > > > > >>>> Minister. Though Jupiter is debiliated in 10th

> > > > > >>>>house,

> > > > > >>>> but there exists Neech Bhanga yoga as Venus (and

> > > > > >>>>also

> > > > > >>>> Mars) are placed in angle from the exalted Moon.

> > > > > >>>>In

> > > > > >>>> the year 2001 (Jup-Mar), he was declared 'World

> > > > > >>>> Finance Minister of the Year' by Euromoney and

> > > > > >>>> Banker's Magazine.

> > > > > >>>>

> > > > > >>>> Amazingly, the theory of Tara pretends ineffective

> > > > > >>>> here. Jupiter not only lords the inauspicious

> > > > > >>>>Pratyak

> > > > > >>>> tara (5th star from Moon's star) but also placed

> > > > > >>>>in

> > > > > >>>> trine to Janma tara(1st start). Though sign-wise

> > > > > >>>> Jupiter is very weak in many vargas. But it is

> > > > > >>>>closely

> > > > > >>>> connected with the Moon, both in Rashi and

> > > > > >>>>Navamsha.

> > > > > >>>> In my humble view, the notion of dispositor works

> > > > > >>>>well

> > > > > >>>> here. Sign dispositor, Nakshatar dispositor, and

> > > > > >>>>Amsha

> > > > > >>>> dispositor are stand for physical, mental and

> > > > > >>>> spiritual trinity.

> > > > > >>>>

> > > > > >>>> Jupiter's Sign Dispositor: Saturn

> > > > > >>>> Jupiter's Nakshatra Dispositor: Saturn

> > > > > >>>> Jupiter's Amsa Dispositor: Sun

> > > > > >>>>

> > > > > >>>> Here neither of the dispositor is in dushtan bhava

> > > > > >>>>or

> > > > > >>>> weak, and both Saturn and Sun are involved in

> > > > > >>>> parivartana. Hence Jupiter maha dasha resulted in

> > > > > >>>>all

> > > > > >>>> around auspiciousness and abundance of wealth.

> > > > > >>>>

> > > > > >>>> The beginning of Saturn maha dasha led to an

> > > > > >>>> unexpected rise. When he was nominated for the

> > > > > >>>> position of Prime Minister after the resignation

> > > > > >>>>of

> > > > > >>>> Zafarullah Khan Jamali on June 6, 2004, and became

> > > > > >>>> Prime Minister on August 28, 2004, in Sat-Sat-Sat.

> > > > > >>>>At

> > > > > >>>> the same time transit Jupiter was entered in his

> > > > > >>>>5th

> > > > > >>>> house-Virgo from the radix Moon.

> > > > > >>>>

> > > > > >>>> Saturn is making sign-interchange

> > > > > >>>>(rashi-parivartan)

> > > > > >>>> with the Sun. The interchange b/w trinal and

> > > > > >>>>quadrant

> > > > > >>>> lords results in Maha yoga (one of the 3 types of

> > > > > >>>> parivartana yogas). Therefor in Saturn dasha he

> > > > > >>>>would

> > > > > >>>> probabily get the effect of Leo-Sun. But it is

> > > > > >>>>also a

> > > > > >>>> matter of fact that parivartana b/w natural

> > > > > >>>>enemies is

> > > > > >>>> not a desirable combination, as they bring mental

> > > > > >>>> agony and inner dis-satisfaction. As a result, on

> > > > > >>>>July

> > > > > >>>> 29, 2004, he survived an assassination attempt in

> > > > > >>>>the

> > > > > >>>> town of Fateh Jang during election campaign, when

> > > > > >>>> Sat-Sat-Sat-Sun was running.

> > > > > >>>>

> > > > > >>>> In Rashi, Saturn as Putra-karak is placed in 7th

> > > > > >>>> Atma-karak Mercury, and trine to Amatya karaka

> > > > > >>>>Rahu.

> > > > > >>>> It again becomes yogada due to its association

> > > > > >>>>with GL

> > > > > >>>> and HL. It is conjoined with GL (power, status)

> > > > > >>>>and

> > > > > >>>> cast rashi drishti to Lagna and graha drishti to

> > > > > >>>>HL.

> > > > > >>>> While in D-10 chart, exalted Saturn as dashamsa

> > > > > >>>> shubpati, occupied in kendara to AL, D-10 lagna

> > > > > >>>>and

> > > > > >>>> the Moon. All these factors tell his story of

> > > > > >>>>success.

> > > > > >>>>

> > > > > >>>> An another astonishing matter is that he got

> > > > > >>>>status,

> > > > > >>>> ministership and power during second Sade Sati !

> > > > > >>>>This

> > > > > >>>> is a puzzle, I am unable to solve. May be experts

> > > > > >>>> better explain the reason.

> > > > > >>>>

> > > > > >>>> Regards,

> > > > > >>>>

> > > > > >>>> M.Imran

> > > > > >>>> (Karachi)

> > > > > >>>>

> > > > > >>>> Small Business - Try our new resources

> > > > > >>>>site!

> > > > > >>>>

> > > > > >>>> Archives:

> > > > > >>>>vedic astrology

> > > > > >>>>

> > > > > >>>> Group info:

> > > > > >>>>

> > > > > >>>vedic astrology/info.html

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>>> To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to

> > > > > >>>>vedic astrology-

> > > > > >>>>

> > > > > >>>> ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

> > > > > >>>>

> > > > > >>>> || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri

> > > > > >>>>Krishnaarpanamastu ||

> > > > > >>>>

March 15, 2005

Dear Sarbani,

I am aware of that, my point was that Parashara refers to Shubha or

Uccha Grahas also and he talks of Ketu not Rahu. Ketu is reffered to as

Moksha Karaka anyway, so that is understandable. Again the reference is

to 12th from Karakamsha and not to Atmakaraka.

I was curious about any reference in classics regarding Rahu being most

malefic as Atmakaraka unless the person becomes spiritual. I have gone

through all the editions of BPHS that I have but have not seen any

reference to individual planets as Atmakaraka. What is given is results

of Karakamsha falling in different Rasis(Navamsha) and different

planets joining Karakamsha. This could also mean the planets joining

Atmakaraka in Karakamsha. I know this may appear a bit ofÂ red herring,

but think about it this way. When the Sage says a certain planet has to

join Karakamsha, for certain effects, obviously Karakamsha is already

defined by reason of Atmakaraka tenanting it.

So I wanted to know whether the copy of Mujumdar, that I remember you

have, mentions results of a planet becoming Atmakaraka specifically? Or

is the reference there in any other classic? I have downloaded Sanjay's

paper and will read it thoroughly so that I can understand Atmakaraka

in depth. But at my age it takes time to read anything thoroughly,

hence the request.

Chandrashekhar.

Sarbani Sarkar wrote:

Dear Chandrashekharji,

Â

To begin with here is what Brhat

Parasra says about the AK. Wonder why he is talking about mukti , going

to shubhalokas after death, kaivalya and enlightenment? And of course

he gives the deities at the same time depending on the planet in the

12th fromÂ Karakamsha. This goes onÂ till slokas 72. I have not quoted

all of them. Â Jaimini echoes this in more ways than one. So does Jataka

Tatva.

Â

karka<zadÅ“

VyySwane SvÃ‰aeÂ½Swe zuÃ‰Â¢he,

sÃŒitjaRyte tSy zuÃ‰laekmvaÃŸuyat!. 64.

kÃ¤rakÃ¤Ã Ã§Ã¤d vyayasthÃ¤ne

svabhoccasthe Ã§ubhagrahe |

sadgatirjÃ¤yate tasya

Ã§ubhalokamavÃ¤pnuyÃ¤t || 64||

karka<zadÅ“

Vyaye ketaE zuÃ‰oeqyutei]te,

tda

tu jayte muiÂ´> sayuJypdmaÃŸuyat!. 65.

kÃ¤rakÃ¤Ã Ã§Ã¤d

vyÃ¤ye ketau Ã§ubhakheÃ¶ayutekÃ±ite |

tadÃ¤

tu jÃ¤yate muktiÃ¹ sÃ¤yujyapadamÃ¤pnuyÃ¤t || 65||

Â

Best regards,

Â

Sarbani

Â

Chandrashekhar [chandrashekhar46]

Sunday, March 13, 2005 2:49 AM

vedic astrology

Re: [vedic astrology] Re: Chart of Shaukat Aziz (PM

Pakistan)

Dear Sarbani,

Could you point me to the shlokas and/or the classic that says that?

Regards,

Chandrashekhar.

Sarbani Sarkar wrote:

Dear Prabodh,

Â

I agree with Partha entirely, who not

only happens to be a brilliant astrologer, but is one of our jyotish

gurus as well...and student of Sanjayji. Partha has given a hint

here.Â Rahu can be extremely malefic as AK, unless the person becomes

spiritual. You may observe thatÂ many spiritual leadersÂ like Ramakrishna

Paramahansa, Srila Prabhupada etc.Â have Rahu as AK. The AK represents

the jivatma, and is aÂ spark of the paramatma. Sun as the naisargika AK,

represents the paramatma. See whatÂ Parasara says: sarvatma cha

divakara. The light of the Paramatma, symbolically is white. This white

gets refracted into the various colours of the jivatma. What colour is

yourÂ jivatma? Rahu is black; it has the power to absorb all colours. If

Rahu, the most malefic, as the AK becomes favourable, what other

misfortunes can theÂ person suffer? Hence if Rahu AK becomes positive,

the native becomes very spiritual indeed. Â Â

Â

Best regards,

Â

Sarbani

Â

V.Partha sarathy [partvinu]

Saturday, March 12, 2005 10:52 AM

vedic astrology

[vedic astrology] Re: Chart of Shaukat Aziz (PM

Pakistan)

Hello Sir

Does my mail say anything about tradition? Does my mail say anything

about religion? What is your problem . You dont even seem to have the

patience to read the mails properly,. All i said was one has to doÂ

sadhana to understand rahu. It is only an opinion. What is there to

crib about.

best wishes

partha

vedic astrology ,

Prabodh Vekhande

<prabodh.wekhande@g...>

wrote:

> Earlier people used to say that for accurate and consistant

predictions

> one should be religious and little bit spiritual. But people now

have

> become so casual in use of words that they have started suggesting

> spiritual(Sadhana) approach towards learning jyotish as well! So

the

> person who is from the tradition will be naturally considered as

> 'spiritual' and hence qualifies to understand advanced spiritual

aspects

> of Vedic Jyotish! Others not from the traditions will be naturally

> disqualified! What a simple logic?Â I think this is jaundiced eye

vision.

>

> Very soon we will have Advanced Spiritual Vedic Astrology(ASVA)!

>

> Thanks a lot for your Time and Space.

>

> Prabodh Vekhande

> Jai Jai Shankar

> Har Har Shankar

>

> V.Partha sarathy wrote:

>

> >This debate has been raged for the last few years, it is a

futile

> >attempt to convince the "other school" of the thoughts of one

school.

> >People who follow 8 karaka scheme will continue to follow it.

Rahu

as

> >AK cannot be understood unless one has done some type of

sadhana

> >best

> >partha

> >

> >vedic astrology ,

Panditji <navagraha@g...>

> >wrote:

> >Â

> >

> >>Namaste,

> >>

> >>I had wanted to talk about 7 chara karaka scheme. However,

I do

not

> >>have the shloka to back up the seven karaka scheme. I

leaned from

my

> >>jyotish guru that one must use only seven karakas. Now one

has to

be

> >>careful, when I say say seven karakas , I really mean seven

> >>karakatwas. One may have to use 8 karakas but only seven

karakatwas

> >>exist. Let me explain...The anomaly is because of rahu.

Should

rahu

> >>Â Â Â

> >>

> >be

> >Â

> >

> >>used as one of the karakas ? Jaimini has said ( Again

please

don't

> >>Â Â Â

> >>

> >ask

> >Â

> >

> >>me to quote the shloka, as I can not and I am paraphrasing

what I

> >>Â Â Â

> >>

> >was

> >Â

> >

> >>taught) Rahu CAN NOT be atmakaraka. So whats the need for

rahu to

be

> >>one of the karakas ? Well if two planets are at the smae

degree

that

> >>can become atma karaka, then one needs to go to the

minutes to

> >>Â Â Â

> >>

> >decide

> >Â

> >

> >>who is atmakara. Now having done that the one that gets

defeated

in

> >>this has to be discarded, now one only is left with a

total of six

> >>karakas including the atmakaraka. So we have six karaakas

and

seven

> >>karakatwas this is when and only when one brings in rahu.

If the

> >>selection of atmakaraka does not eleminate one graha then

one

will

> >>Â Â Â

> >>

> >not

> >Â

> >

> >>need rahu. So in general scheme rahu is mostly not

required.

> >>

> >>...

> >>

> >>On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 06:53:14 -0800 (PST), Muhammad Imran

> >><astroimran> wrote:

> >>Â Â Â

> >>

> >>>Praveen Kumar,

> >>>

> >>>As ususal, you seem skeptic. Here are the answers of

> >>>your arguments.

> >>>

> >>>The time of birth is quite certain as the native

> >>>himself told this. And I did not use parshan or wild

> >>>speculation to attain this birth time.

> >>>

> >>>Secondly, the time zone of Pakistan was not

> >>>immediately changed after independance, but it was

> >>>firstly redefined in 1951 and then in 1954.

> >>>

> >>>For the sake of your kind information, I am giving the

> >>>chronology of official time zone details for Pakistan.

> >>>

> >>>Time Zone Pakistan

> >>>-------------

> >>>Date/Time of ImplementationÂ Â Â Â Â Â Time Zone

> >>>-------------

> >>>01-Jan-1906, 12:00 am.Â 5:30 hours east of GMT

> >>>01-Sep-1942, 12:00 am.Â 6:30 hours east of GMT

> >>>15-Oct-1945, 12:00 am.Â 5:30 hours east of GMT

> >>>01-Sep-1951, 12:00 am.Â 4:30 hours east of GMT

> >>>01-May-1954, 12:00 am.Â 5:00 hours east of GMT

> >>>06-Apr-2002, 12:00 am.Â 6:00 hours east of GMT

> >>>01-Oct-2002, 12:00 am.Â 5:00 hours east of GMT

> >>>-------------

> >>>

> >>>Apart from it, this may possible that 8 chara karaka

> >>>scheme did not work in your experience. But if you

> >>>critique, then please let us enlighten the alternative

> >>>methodology with concrete foundation.

> >>>

> >>>You have opined that K.N.Rao's approach may prove

> >>>helpful in solving the puzzle of Sade-Sati. Ok, let me

> >>>explain the method, I will try unbiasedly and

> >>>impartially.

> >>>

> >>>Thanks,

> >>>

> >>>M.Imran

> >>>

> >>>--- Praveen Kumar <chunnu2001@v...> wrote:

> >>>

> >>>Â Â Â Â Â

> >>>

> >>>>First, are you sure about TOB ? What is the source

?

> >>>>Then, was the time zone for Pakistan 05:30 in 1949,

> >>>>even after independence as I know it to be 05:00

hrs

> >>>>now.

> >>>>

> >>>>However, it appeals me, prima-facie. Give some

> >>>>non-political and personal events, if known. You

can

> >>>>get solution to all your puzzles if you follow

> >>>>K.N.Rao's methods. Concepts like 8 Karakas, AL is

> >>>>perception etc are faulty in my opinion and

> >>>>experience. I feel you may fare as a brilliant

> >>>>astrologer.

> >>>>

> >>>>Praveen Kumar (Mumbai)

> >>>>Â -

> >>>>Â Muhammad Imran

> >>>>Â vedic astrology

;

> >>>>hanskpvedic

> >>>>Â Cc:

> >>>>Â 10, 03, 2005 11:08 PM

> >>>>Â [vedic astrology] Chart of Shaukat Aziz

> >>>>(PM Pakistan)

> >>>>

> >>>>Â Dear List,

> >>>>

> >>>>Â Those interested in mundane astrology and

> >>>>celebrities'

> >>>>Â chart would find the horoscope of Shaukat Aziz,

> >>>>prime

> >>>>Â minister of Pakistan, as an interesting addition

> >>>>in

> >>>>Â their folder.

> >>>>

> >>>>Â Date:Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â March 6, 1949

> >>>>Â Time:Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 9:53:00 am

> >>>>Â Time Zone:Â Â Â Â 5:30:00 (East of GMT)

> >>>>Â Place:Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 67 E 03' 00", 24 N 52' 00"

> >>>>Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Karachi, Pakistan

> >>>>

> >>>>Â LagnaÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 11 Ar 43' 29.25" AswiÂ Â Â Â Â 4

> >>>>Â Sun - MKÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 22 Aq 08' 28.92" PBhaÂ Â Â Â Â 1

> >>>>

> >>>>Â Moon - DKÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 0 Ta 51' 10.39" KritÂ Â Â Â Â 2

> >>>>

> >>>>Â Mars - BKÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 24 Aq 33' 29.46" PBhaÂ Â Â Â Â 2

> >>>>

> >>>>Â Mercury - AKÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â 25 Cp 51' 23.55" DhanÂ Â Â Â Â 1

> >>>>

> >>>>Â Jupiter - GKÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 1 Cp 09' 47.55" UShaÂ Â Â Â Â 2

> >>>>

> >>>>Â Venus - PiKÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 11 Aq 34' 58.27" SataÂ Â Â Â Â 2

> >>>>

> >>>>Â Saturn ® - PKÂ Â Â Â Â 8 Le 39' 21.79" MaghÂ Â Â Â Â 3

> >>>>

> >>>>Â Rahu - AmKÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 4 Ar 53' 44.02" AswiÂ Â Â Â Â 2

> >>>>

> >>>>Â KetuÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 4 Li 53' 44.02" ChitÂ Â Â Â Â 4

> >>>>

> >>>>Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Rasi

> >>>>Â +--------------+

> >>>>Â | \Â Â Â Â HLÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â /Â Â \Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â / |

> >>>>Â |Â Â \Â Â Â Â Â MoÂ Â Â Â Â Â /Â Â Â Â Â Â \Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â /Â Â |

> >>>>Â |Â Â Â Â \Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â /Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â \Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â /Â Â Â Â |

> >>>>Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â \Â Â Â Â Â Â /Â Â Â Â Â RaÂ Â Â Â Â Â \Â Â Â Â Â Â /Â Â Â Â Â Â |

> >>>>Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â \Â Â /Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â \Â Â /Â Â Â Â VeÂ |

> >>>>Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â xÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â AsÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â xÂ MaÂ Â SuÂ |

> >>>>Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â /Â Â \Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â /Â Â \Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |

> >>>>Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â /Â Â Â Â Â Â \Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â /Â Â Â Â Â Â \Â Â Â Â Â Â |

> >>>>Â |Â Â Â Â /Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â \Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â /Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â \Â Â Â Â |

> >>>>Â |Â Â /Â Â Â Â Â GkÂ Â Â Â Â Â \Â Â 1Â Â /Â Â Â Â Â JuÂ Â Â Â Â Â \Â Â |

> >>>>Â | /Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â \Â Â /Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â \ |

> >>>>Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â MdÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â xÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â MeÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |

> >>>>Â | \Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â /Â Â \Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â / |

> >>>>Â |Â Â \Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â /Â Â Â Â Â Â \Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â /Â Â |

> >>>>Â |Â Â Â Â \Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â /Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â \Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â /Â Â Â Â |

> >>>>Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â \Â Â Â Â Â Â /Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â \Â Â Â Â Â Â /Â Â Â Â Â Â |

> >>>>Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â \Â Â /Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â \Â Â /Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |

> >>>>Â |SaRÂ GLÂ Â Â xÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â KeÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â xÂ Â Â Â Â Â ALÂ |

> >>>>Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â /Â Â \Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â /Â Â \Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |

> >>>>Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â /Â Â Â Â Â Â \Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â /Â Â Â Â Â Â \Â Â Â Â Â Â |

> >>>>Â |Â Â Â Â /Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â \Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â /Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â \Â Â Â Â |

> >>>>Â |Â Â /Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â \Â Â Â Â Â Â /Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â \Â Â |

> >>>>Â | /Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â \Â Â /Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â \ |

> >>>>Â +--------------+

> >>>>

> >>>>Â His chart reveals many unique planetary

> >>>>combinations.

> >>>>Â Most of the planets are occupied in panaphara

> >>>>bhavas

> >>>>Â (2,5,8,11). Note the vacant trik (6th, 8th, 12th)

> >>>>Â bhavas. He is graduate of IBA Karachi University

> >>>>and a

> >>>>Â world renowned banker. The 10th house is tenanted

> >>>>by

> >>>>Â Jupiter and Mercury while 10th lord Saturn is

into

> >>>>Â navamsha of Mercury, and falls in Deva amsa. Rahu

> >>>>as

> >>>>Â Amatya karaka and the producer of Raja-Sambhanda

> >>>>Â yogada, gave services in international

> >>>>institutions

> >>>>Â during its maha dasha.

> >>>>

> >>>>Â As mentioned earlier, many planets are in

> >>>>panaphara

> >>>>Â (2,5,8,11) from lagna but the picutre reverse if

> >>>>seen

> >>>>Â from AL. That is, most of planets are in Apoklima

> >>>>Â (3,6,9,12). This contrast, speaks a person, who

is

> >>>>Â socially perceives as humble and knowledgable but

> >>>>Â infact who is very persistant, parsimonious and

> >>>>Â wealthy.

> >>>>

> >>>>Â He rose exponentially in the Jupiter maha dasha

> >>>>Â (1988-2004). Initial two phases (i.e. first 6

> >>>>antar

> >>>>Â dasas) in Jupiter maha dasha gave him

professional

> >>>>Â success and he attaied the post of Executive Vice

> >>>>Â President of City Bank USA. While the last phase

> >>>>of

> >>>>Â Jupiter dasha yielded him ministerial status. In

> >>>>Â Jupiter-Moon (November 1999) he became Finance

> >>>>Â Minister. Though Jupiter is debiliated in 10th

> >>>>house,

> >>>>Â but there exists Neech Bhanga yoga as Venus (and

> >>>>also

> >>>>Â Mars) are placed in angle from the exalted Moon.

> >>>>In

> >>>>Â the year 2001 (Jup-Mar), he was declared 'World

> >>>>Â Finance Minister of the Year' by Euromoney and

> >>>>Â Banker's Magazine.

> >>>>

> >>>>Â Amazingly, the theory of Tara pretends

ineffective

> >>>>Â here. Jupiter not only lords the inauspicious

> >>>>Pratyak

> >>>>Â tara (5th star from Moon's star) but also placed

> >>>>in

> >>>>Â trine to Janma tara(1st start). Though sign-wise

> >>>>Â Jupiter is very weak in many vargas. But it is

> >>>>closely

> >>>>Â connected with the Moon, both in Rashi and

> >>>>Navamsha.

> >>>>Â In my humble view, the notion of dispositor works

> >>>>well

> >>>>Â here. Sign dispositor, Nakshatar dispositor, and

> >>>>Amsha

> >>>>Â dispositor are stand for physical, mental and

> >>>>Â spiritual trinity.

> >>>>

> >>>>Â Jupiter's Sign Dispositor: Saturn

> >>>>Â Jupiter's Nakshatra Dispositor: Saturn

> >>>>Â Jupiter's Amsa Dispositor: Sun

> >>>>

> >>>>Â Here neither of the dispositor is in dushtan

bhava

> >>>>or

> >>>>Â weak, and both Saturn and Sun are involved in

> >>>>Â parivartana. Hence Jupiter maha dasha resulted in

> >>>>all

> >>>>Â around auspiciousness and abundance of wealth.

> >>>>

> >>>>Â The beginning of Saturn maha dasha led to an

> >>>>Â unexpected rise. When he was nominated for the

> >>>>Â position of Prime Minister after the resignation

> >>>>of

> >>>>Â Zafarullah Khan Jamali on June 6, 2004, and

became

> >>>>Â Prime Minister on August 28, 2004, in

Sat-Sat-Sat.

> >>>>At

> >>>>Â the same time transit Jupiter was entered in his

> >>>>5th

> >>>>Â house-Virgo from the radix Moon.

> >>>>

> >>>>Â Saturn is making sign-interchange

> >>>>(rashi-parivartan)

> >>>>Â with the Sun. The interchange b/w trinal and

> >>>>quadrant

> >>>>Â lords results in Maha yoga (one of the 3 types of

> >>>>Â parivartana yogas). Therefor in Saturn dasha he

> >>>>would

> >>>>Â probabily get the effect of Leo-Sun. But it is

> >>>>also a

> >>>>Â matter of fact that parivartana b/w natural

> >>>>enemies is

> >>>>Â not a desirable combination, as they bring mental

> >>>>Â agony and inner dis-satisfaction. As a result, on

> >>>>July

> >>>>Â 29, 2004, he survived an assassination attempt in

> >>>>the

> >>>>Â town of Fateh Jang during election campaign, when

> >>>>Â Sat-Sat-Sat-Sun was running.

> >>>>

> >>>>Â In Rashi, Saturn as Putra-karak is placed in 7th

> >>>>Â Atma-karak Mercury, and trine to Amatya karaka

> >>>>Rahu.

> >>>>Â It again becomes yogada due to its association

> >>>>with GL

> >>>>Â and HL. It is conjoined with GL (power, status)

> >>>>and

> >>>>Â cast rashi drishti to Lagna and graha drishti to

> >>>>HL.

> >>>>Â While in D-10 chart, exalted Saturn as dashamsa

> >>>>Â shubpati, occupied in kendara to AL, D-10 lagna

> >>>>and

> >>>>Â the Moon. All these factors tell his story of

> >>>>success.

> >>>>

> >>>>Â An another astonishing matter is that he got

> >>>>status,

> >>>>Â ministership and power during second Sade Sati !

> >>>>This

> >>>>Â is a puzzle, I am unable to solve. May be experts

> >>>>Â better explain the reason.

> >>>>

> >>>>Â Regards,

> >>>>

> >>>>Â M.Imran

> >>>>Â (Karachi)

> >>>>

> >>>>Â

> >>>>Â Small Business - Try our new resources

> >>>>site!

> >>>>Â

> >>>>

> >>>>Â Archives:

> >>>>vedic astrology

> >>>>

> >>>>Â Group info:

> >>>>

> >>>>Â Â Â Â Â Â Â

> >>>>

> >>>vedic astrology/info.html

> >>>Â Â Â Â Â

> >>>

> >>>>Â To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to

> >>>>vedic astrology-

> >>>>

> >>>>Â ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

> >>>>

> >>>>Â ||Â Â Om Tat SatÂ Â ||Â Â Sarvam Sri

> >>>>KrishnaarpanamastuÂ Â ||

> >>>>

> >>>>Â Â Â Â Â Â Â

Sign In

Chart of Shaukat Aziz (PM Pakistan)

Recommended Posts

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Join the conversation

Support the Ashram

Join Groups

Top Downloads