Guest guest Posted March 11, 2005 Report Share Posted March 11, 2005 Hare Rama Krishna, Namaste Gurus and friends, Could someone Please throw some light on what to look for in an Atheist's chart? Respectfully, Rema Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. http://info.mail./mail_250 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2005 Report Share Posted March 12, 2005 Dear Remaji, Guru-Chandala Yoga makes one agnostic. How effective the yoga needs a careful study in Rasi-Navamsa. 5th and 9th house also have to be seen. Best Regards, Saaji varahamihira , Rema Menon <remamenon> wrote: > > Hare Rama Krishna, > Namaste Gurus and friends, > > Could someone Please throw some light on what to look > for in an Atheist's chart? > > Respectfully, > Rema > > > > > > Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. > http://info.mail./mail_250 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2005 Report Share Posted March 12, 2005 Saaji, Thanks for your reply. The attached chart is of a person who totally doesnot believe in God. But he doesnot have Guru-chandala. I am hoping the learned members would give some insight. Rema --- saaji kulangara <saajik wrote: > > Dear Remaji, > > Guru-Chandala Yoga makes one agnostic. How effective > the yoga needs a > careful study in Rasi-Navamsa. 5th and 9th house > also have to be > seen. > > Best Regards, > > Saaji > > > varahamihira , Rema Menon > <remamenon> > wrote: > > > > Hare Rama Krishna, > > Namaste Gurus and friends, > > > > Could someone Please throw some light on what to > look > > for in an Atheist's chart? > > > > Respectfully, > > Rema > > > > > > > > > > > > Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced > search. > > http://info.mail./mail_250 > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 Dear Remaji, According to Sage Satyacharya, the nakshatra placement of planets influence the results to a good extent. Here Retro Ju is placed in the nakshatra of Rahu, which inturn afflicts 9th lord Mars. I follow Varahamihira and as per Brihat Jataka, the results have to seen from Moon sign also. From Moon, Rahu is in the 5th and 9th has Papakartari yoga, whose lord is neecha. Dasa running being that of a good Venus, the native has other priorities. In the Sun Dasa also it will continue, but Moon Dasa being the 9th lord in Lagna(Chandra Lagna) may bring in slight change. Ju is sarverswara karaka as per Prashna Marga, as such the analysis moves around Ju and the Dasa running. Disbelief is of many grades. Many combinations are given for adharma, neecha karmas and fall of religious beliefs. And Guru-Chandala Yoga is the main yoga which signifies disbelief. Here Rahu eclipses Guru, the Sarveswara. Frankly, I cant figure out total Disbelief in this case. But I have seen that during Ve Dasa, the native has other priorities and religious practices in general is very less, with affliction of Ju and trikonas this increases. Considering all factors and declaring results is not easy. Here in this case, I suspect exaggeration also as Mars and Ketu are placed in the 2nd and in Me's Ashtakavarga, there are bindus of Ma and Sa in the 2nd fm Mercury. Best Regards, Saaji varahamihira , Rema Menon <remamenon> wrote: > Saaji, > > Thanks for your reply. > > The attached chart is of a person who totally doesnot > believe in God. > But he doesnot have Guru-chandala. > > I am hoping the learned members would give some > insight. > > Rema > > > --- saaji kulangara <saajik> wrote: > > > > Dear Remaji, > > > > Guru-Chandala Yoga makes one agnostic. How effective > > the yoga needs a > > careful study in Rasi-Navamsa. 5th and 9th house > > also have to be > > seen. > > > > Best Regards, > > > > Saaji > > > > > > varahamihira , Rema Menon > > <remamenon> > > wrote: > > > > > > Hare Rama Krishna, > > > Namaste Gurus and friends, > > > > > > Could someone Please throw some light on what to > > look > > > for in an Atheist's chart? > > > > > > Respectfully, > > > Rema > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced > > search. > > > http://info.mail./mail_250 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 Saaji, Thank you. That was quite a detail work. Thanks again. Rema --- saaji kulangara <saajik wrote: > > Dear Remaji, > > According to Sage Satyacharya, the nakshatra > placement of planets > influence the results to a good extent. Here Retro > Ju is placed in > the nakshatra of Rahu, which inturn afflicts 9th > lord Mars. I follow > Varahamihira and as per Brihat Jataka, the results > have to seen from > Moon sign also. From Moon, Rahu is in the 5th and > 9th has Papakartari > yoga, whose lord is neecha. Dasa running being that > of a good Venus, > the native has other priorities. In the Sun Dasa > also it will > continue, but Moon Dasa being the 9th lord in > Lagna(Chandra Lagna) > may bring in slight change. > > Ju is sarverswara karaka as per Prashna Marga, as > such the analysis > moves around Ju and the Dasa running. Disbelief is > of many grades. > Many combinations are given for adharma, neecha > karmas and fall of > religious beliefs. And Guru-Chandala Yoga is the > main yoga which > signifies disbelief. Here Rahu eclipses Guru, the > Sarveswara. > > Frankly, I cant figure out total Disbelief in this > case. But I have > seen that during Ve Dasa, the native has other > priorities and > religious practices in general is very less, with > affliction of Ju > and trikonas this increases. Considering all factors > and declaring > results is not easy. Here in this case, I suspect > exaggeration also > as Mars and Ketu are placed in the 2nd and in Me's > Ashtakavarga, > there are bindus of Ma and Sa in the 2nd fm Mercury. > > Best Regards, > > Saaji > > > > > varahamihira , Rema Menon > <remamenon> > wrote: > > Saaji, > > > > Thanks for your reply. > > > > The attached chart is of a person who totally > doesnot > > believe in God. > > But he doesnot have Guru-chandala. > > > > I am hoping the learned members would give some > > insight. > > > > Rema > > > > > > --- saaji kulangara <saajik> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Remaji, > > > > > > Guru-Chandala Yoga makes one agnostic. How > effective > > > the yoga needs a > > > careful study in Rasi-Navamsa. 5th and 9th house > > > also have to be > > > seen. > > > > > > Best Regards, > > > > > > Saaji > > > > > > > > > varahamihira , Rema Menon > > > <remamenon> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hare Rama Krishna, > > > > Namaste Gurus and friends, > > > > > > > > Could someone Please throw some light on what > to > > > look > > > > for in an Atheist's chart? > > > > > > > > Respectfully, > > > > Rema > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mail - Find what you need with new > enhanced > > > search. > > > > http://info.mail./mail_250 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Small Business - Try our new resources > site! > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 14, 2005 Report Share Posted March 14, 2005 Atheism, theism, agnosticism are not right concepts to talk of Indian traditions. The former three categories are central to Christianity qua religion. For instance, theism is a solution to THE Christological dilemma; in other words, the solution space ranges from Christology(exclusivity) to Theology(inclusivity) When a believer(Indians who offer poojas are not believers, alas!) looses faith(this faith is different from my having faith in dog that protects my home) in Lord God(one relatum), he becomes atheist: that is to say, he starts believing in himself(another relatum). Every Christian theologian(not the Christian church goer) knows the difference between *believe that*(a proposition) and *believe in*(an attitude. Just because I believe scientific theories, it does not make me believer. It is sad to notice that the vocabulary is our stock-in-trade to describe our experiences(Indian experience) and Indian traditions. In doing so, one is denying ones experience, and hence unable to access that experience. Coming to the point, naastika traditions are seen as atheists by the Indology and western Scholars. This conceptualization tells *more* about Christianity, than about *Indian traditions*. There is no such thing as *believe in* Krishna etc in Indian traditions, except that that is how we started to describing our experience thanks in large part to our education that the colonialism project is. Every tradition(both naastika and astika, but not theistic and atheistic) is answer to enlightement(mokhsa, gyanodaya, etc): what this enlightement consists of, so to speak? Of course, only to find that the experience of *intentional/moral agent* is as superficial as the experience of seeing the stick appearing bent when immersed water. However, such experiences are necessary. For christians, jews, muslims, and the stock of atheists, theists, agnostics, human actions are intentional. That is, *will* is the governor of human actions. There was no notion of WILL among greeco- roman pagans, and among Indians. The first one who struggled to conceptualise *human will* was Saint Augustine. To buy St. Augustine's and following him many other works on *human will*, one needs to presuppose fair amount of Christian theology, which is *empirically FALSE*. The enlightenment spoken of in Indian traditions, both naastika and astika varieties, are antipodal to the notion of HUMAN ACTIONS seen among semites and atheists/theists/agnostics. The current pseudo- scientific psychologies, variants of intentional psychologies, are secularized Christian theologies. We learned secular xian theologies, without knowing what the latter are! In sum, being a naastika(not an atheist that lost faith in the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob), one can achieve enlightement! varahamihira , " saaji kulangara " <saajik> wrote: > > Dear Remaji, > > Guru-Chandala Yoga makes one agnostic. How effective the yoga needs a > careful study in Rasi-Navamsa. 5th and 9th house also have to be > seen. > > Best Regards, > > Saaji > > > varahamihira , Rema Menon <remamenon> > wrote: > > > > Hare Rama Krishna, > > Namaste Gurus and friends, > > > > Could someone Please throw some light on what to look > > for in an Atheist's chart? > > > > Respectfully, > > Rema > > > > > > > > > > > > Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. > > http://info.mail./mail_250 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 Jaya Jagannatha Dear Venkateswara That is excellent. In sum and substance you have proved that the naastika can be enlightened beings. To this I agree as the ajivikas were naastika and were also very enlightened but would you say that this is also the path for mukti? Is enlightenment sufficient cause for mukti or is is no argument at all i.e. would you say that enlightenment leads to emancipation from the cycle of rebirth (getting out of the seven lokas itself). With best wishes and warm regards, Sanjay Rath * * * Sri Jagannath Center® 15B Gangaram Hospital Road New Delhi 110060, India http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162 * * * venkateshwara_reddy [venkateshwara_reddy] Monday, March 14, 2005 2:38 PMvarahamihira Subject: |Sri Varaha| Re: Atheist: Atheism, theism, agnosticism are not right concepts to talk of Indian traditions. The former three categories are central to Christianity qua religion. For instance, theism is a solution to THE Christological dilemma; in other words, the solution space ranges from Christology(exclusivity) to Theology(inclusivity)When a believer(Indians who offer poojas are not believers, alas!) looses faith(this faith is different from my having faith in dog that protects my home) in Lord God(one relatum), he becomes atheist: that is to say, he starts believing in himself(another relatum). Every Christian theologian(not the Christian church goer) knows the difference between *believe that*(a proposition) and *believe in*(an attitude. Just because I believe scientific theories, it does not make me believer. It is sad to notice that the vocabulary is our stock-in-trade to describe our experiences(Indian experience) and Indian traditions. In doing so, one is denying ones experience, and hence unable to access that experience.Coming to the point, naastika traditions are seen as atheists by the Indology and western Scholars. This conceptualization tells *more* about Christianity, than about *Indian traditions*. There is no such thing as *believe in* Krishna etc in Indian traditions, except that that is how we started to describing our experience thanks in large part to our education that the colonialism project is.Every tradition(both naastika and astika, but not theistic and atheistic) is answer to enlightement(mokhsa, gyanodaya, etc): what this enlightement consists of, so to speak? Of course, only to find that the experience of *intentional/moral agent* is as superficial as the experience of seeing the stick appearing bent when immersed water. However, such experiences are necessary.For christians, jews, muslims, and the stock of atheists, theists, agnostics, human actions are intentional. That is, *will* is the governor of human actions. There was no notion of WILL among greeco-roman pagans, and among Indians. The first one who struggled to conceptualise *human will* was Saint Augustine. To buy St. Augustine's and following him many other works on *human will*, one needs to presuppose fair amount of Christian theology, which is *empirically FALSE*. The enlightenment spoken of in Indian traditions, both naastika and astika varieties, are antipodal to the notion of HUMAN ACTIONS seen among semites and atheists/theists/agnostics. The current pseudo-scientific psychologies, variants of intentional psychologies, are secularized Christian theologies. We learned secular xian theologies, without knowing what the latter are!In sum, being a naastika(not an atheist that lost faith in the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob), one can achieve enlightement!varahamihira , "saaji kulangara" <saajik> wrote:> > Dear Remaji,> > Guru-Chandala Yoga makes one agnostic. How effective the yoga needs a > careful study in Rasi-Navamsa. 5th and 9th house also have to be > seen. > > Best Regards,> > Saaji> > > varahamihira , Rema Menon <remamenon> > wrote:> > > > Hare Rama Krishna,> > Namaste Gurus and friends,> > > > Could someone Please throw some light on what to look> > for in an Atheist's chart?> > > > Respectfully, > > Rema> > > > > > > > > > > > Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. > > http://info.mail./mail_250|Om Tat Sat|http://www.varahamihira Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Dear Sanjay: Various traditions call the same with different names: gyanodaya, mukti, and so on. The ignorance is called as: maaya, avidya, agyaana and so on in different traditions. Indian traditions called the latter categories as an instance of paapa. Removing 'paapa' is infact the central goal of Indian traditions: Gyanodaya(dawn of this experiential knowledge, different traditions call it differently). The impediments to this experiential knowledge were 'illusions' or 'ignorance' of sorts( to take but one anaology, thinking that Stick is *really* bent when immersed in water, but our scientific theories tell us that such experience is necessary but veridical). These hindrances could be eliminated, as Indian traditions claim, and they developed number of practical ways(how to do it, what to do it). The plurarality of Indian traditions has to do with this goal: removing the ignorance. But the 'tolerance' touted by semites has to do with: ecumenial drive of the religion, which is altogether different phenomenon. This ignorance is not mere absense of information, as taught in Indian education system. It is accorded positive role, and seen as positive force that actively blocks the emergence of knowledge (gyanodaya). maaya is not mere illusion; the world exists and impinges upon us. To access ones own experience(of course, Freud says, it is inaccessible, hence Freud is wrong), 'mediation' is required. Such mediator is called 'guru'(again, 'pandita' is different from 'guru'). In most cases, Guru is needed for one to access ones experience, and to achieve enlightenment. Believing in Lord God, as believers(Indian traditions are not belief systems!) put it, does not help one liberate(moksha) from ignorance. These categories(gyana and agyana; vidya and avidya; etc) are experiential ones, but not the theoritical ones. When intentionality is superficial but necessary experience, the western notions of " self " or " intentional acts " are bankrupt at the best. That is, there should be a way about talk of human actions: there is specific agent, but a continuum of agents etc, or a- intentional acts. varahamihira , " Sanjay Rath " <guruji@s...> wrote: > > > Jaya Jagannatha > Dear Venkateswara > That is excellent. In sum and substance you have proved that the naastika > can be enlightened beings. To this I agree as the ajivikas were naastika and > were also very enlightened but would you say that this is also the path for > mukti? Is enlightenment sufficient cause for mukti or is is no argument at > all i.e. would you say that enlightenment leads to emancipation from the > cycle of rebirth (getting out of the seven lokas itself). > With best wishes and warm regards, > Sanjay Rath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Replace " necessary but veridical " with " necessary but non-veridical " - -the way Galileo explained the necessity of our perception of Sun's movement around earth. But he claimed it is not *reality*, but phenomenon. In other words, our experience of sun's movement earth is non-veridical, but necessary. varahamihira , " venkateshwara_reddy " <venkateshwara_reddy> wrote: > or 'ignorance' of sorts( to take but one anaology, thinking that > Stick is *really* bent when immersed in water, but our scientific > theories tell us that such experience is " necessary but veridical " ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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