Guest guest Posted March 20, 2005 Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 Jaya Jagannatha Dear Chandrasekhar ji and all If we have sadhana for Jagannath, then we should exhibit it. One of the profound movies I saw in my life was 'do ankhen bara haath' (two eyes - twelve hands' and even today the songs and lessons play a significant role in my thinking. Ahimsa is the greatest of virtues ... What made Gautama Buddha and Mahatma Gandhi take to this? Can anyone comment from their charts and how can w find this in our charts? With best wishes and warm regards, Sanjay Rath * * * Sri Jagannath Center® 15B Gangaram Hospital Road New Delhi 110060, India http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162 * * * Chandrashekhar [chandrashekhar46] Sunday, March 20, 2005 2:24 AMvarahamihira Subject: Re: |Sri Varaha| Mundakya on Para Dear Sanjay,I agree with what you have said and if you read my mails, I had said the same in my reply to Sanjay P. It is how a Vidya is used will make it either Para or Apara. This is also what Shankaracharya had explained. About your reference to exodus, have you read mails written about me having a hidden agenda? You are aware that I generally do not get into arguments and feel it better to retreat than to make a public show. Unfortunately this appears to be taken as inability to stand against an onslaught. At my age I am not very comfortable at reasons being attributed to statements in lieu of quotes from authoritative texts. I will write my views on Vyasa List.Chandrashekhar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2005 Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 Yes Chandrashekharji. I am well aware of my weakness of not understanding sanskrit. So I always look for logical explanatory comentries. Best regards jk - Chandrashekhar varahamihira Sunday, March 20, 2005 02:39 Re: |Sri Varaha| Mundakya on Para Dear J.K. Da, You are making a profound statement and yet claim to be a slow learner. It is rightly said " Vidya Vinayen Shobhate"Chandrashekhar.jk.dasgupta wrote: Dear all, My spiritual sikhsa guru Swami Chinmayanandaji used to tell that spirituality is a subject by itself- like medical or engineering. By worshiping medical books everyday-one can never become a doctor. Like that just worshiping the scriptures everyday or mugging up the slokas therin one can never become knowledgeable. He used to always tell that scriptures are to be studied by sitting at the feet of guru - as sanskrit is a difficult and tricky language. Simple literal meaning of one sanskrit word may be misleading and may mean so many things. A guru has to explain what the sloka actually means. He also used to warn always not to pick up one sloka from a scripture and jump to interpret it. The slokas are to be studied in totality. That is the reason the slokas of Scriptures have often been misinterpreted. Swamiji used to teach that Brahma vidya or para vidya is beyond words. It is beyond the perception of awaken state of human being. Therefore the teacher in the scripures always uses examples to explain the truth to the nearest possible fineness and therefore all the scriptures follow a certain logic to arive at a conclusion. After that, following that direction shown by guru & realising the truth is the job of the student. Realising the truth is only possible in deep meditative stage and once the truth is realised all arguments end there. (and I am far far from it :-), just repeating what Swamiji used to tell) Till the truth is such realised - every vidya is apara and the argument continues. Such arguments among scholars have taken place in past - are taking place in present and will take place in future also. That is the process of evaluation. Whatever have been discussed in this chain were simply fantastic. We are all human being.. so it is natural for us to get imotional at certain point. In my openion those imotional portions should not be taken seriously. Imotions will come and go - but the windows opened towards the knowledge during the process will always remain opened. Personally I am not at all knowledgeable in sanskrit - so always look for the explanatory comentries of slokas and the logic behind the explanations. That is why I am a very slow learner. regards and with best wishes jk - lakshmi ramesh varahamihira Friday, March 18, 2005 22:49 RE: |Sri Varaha| Mundakya on Para Om Gurave Namah Dear Ajit, Well, I was certainly not the one who talked about swarupa-gynaana and vritti-gynaana.... Jokes apart, you are absolutely right...its high time we stop concentrating on words and start concentrating on feelings. Your posts are always wonderful, Ajit. Please keep writing more often. Regards, LakshmiAjit Krishnan <astro wrote: ... hamsasso.aham .. Dear Lakshmi, We started with the Mundaka upanishad which teaches that this para vidya is beyond names, but are back to insisting upon names, words and dictionaries. Call this gyana Shiva, or call him Vishnu. Have faith, surrender to him, and be happy. ajit lakshmi ramesh [b_lakshmi_ramesh] Friday, March 18, 2005 3:35 AMvarahamihira Subject: RE: |Sri Varaha| Mundakya on Para Om Gurave Namah Namaste Ajit, Thaks for this excellent mail. However, I want to know the "name" of the gynana by which a spider, an elephant, a snake, a hunter realized God. The spider spun the web for sheltering the idol of Shiva, the elephant bathed Him with water brought in its trunk, the snake adorned Him with naga maNis and the hunter offered the meat of animals he killed as naivedyam. They were not versed in vedas or upanishads...yet, they realized God by serving Him in their own little, natural ways. In their dictionary probably para vidya consisted of two simple words...belief and surrender. And I think they are right. Is "Ishaanah sarva vidyaanaam" incorrect? Regards, Lakshmi |Om Tat Sat|http://www.varahamihira |Om Tat Sat|http://www.varahamihira Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2005 Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 Jaya Jagannatha Dear Partha I should have known..you are the kind soul. Others kindly get the charts from Partha's mail. Let's see the particiapnts- 1. Sarbani Sarkar. Mina Lagna with Guru in 12th in Kumbha. Drig dasa is Kanya an earthy sign (aspecting the lagna) and antardasa is Mesha aspecting natal Jupiter as the transit Jupiter is in Virgo over drig dasa rasi. 2. Chandrasekhar Sharma. Dhanus Lagna with Guru in 11th house in Libra. Drig dasa is Kanya an earthy sign (aspecting the lagna) and antardasa is Libra with Guru in it! See that Sarbani and Chandrasekhar have an exactly similar drig dasa of 'argumentative Kanya' with the dasa rasi aspecting lagna i.e. they are *really* and honestly seeking answers. Can you see how the antardasa in both the cases relate to the sign occupied by Guru causing them to debate on Paraa Vidya and Aparaa Vidya instead of whether actresses are wearing shorter hems these days. Just see how the drig dasa is clearly causing the person to focus on spiritual knowledge. Theproblem is that they would not have read the Upanishad on their own and *Saaji* was the nimitta for them to read the Upanishad. See how Jupiter causes them to read the holy scriptures. 3. Let us examine the other Gurus invloved. Pathasarathy has Dhanus Lagna with Jupiter in Aries. He is under Cancer drig dasa with Saturn in it but the real clincher is the antardasa is ALSO of Aries with Jupiter in it!!! Thus in all three cases we have the gurus with antardasa directly linked to Jupiter searching for the knowledge of the Upanishads. Now come to the students. 3. Prabodh Venkhade. Mesha Lagna with Guru in Simha in 5th house. Drig dasa is Makara an earthy sign aspecting natal Guru but not lagna. Please note that Makara is the sign causing doubts but Guru aspecting the dasa rasi removes the doubts. The antardasa is Mina with the eclipse combination of Sun + Rahu and Saturn joining it. 'Saadhana' not required until the aspect of Jupier seems to have changed someting but everything cannot change until September when the antardasa changes. However the dasa rasi is aspected by Jupiter indicating the grace of Guru during the entire dasa period. 4. Saaji Don't have his chart With best wishes and warm regards, Sanjay Rath * * * Sri Jagannath Center® 15B Gangaram Hospital Road New Delhi 110060, India http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162 * * * Partha Sarathy [partvinu] Saturday, March 19, 2005 1:42 PMvarahamihira Subject: Re: |Sri Varaha| Mundakya on Para Dear SanjayjiI am attatching the files of five of the six people mentioned. Is theattatchment sufficient, or do i need to copy paste the rasi-navamsa?best wishesparthaOn Sat, 19 Mar 2005 12:18:33 +0530, SRath.com <guruji wrote:> Jaya Jagannatha> Dear Chandrasekhar ji et.al,> > It is a question of viewpoint. mano to mai ganga maa hun na mano to baheta> paani...should sum up the discussion. When I was a kid, my feet touched a> book and my mother scolded me and taught me to life the book and put it in> its place and then to touch the book, touch my head and to touch my heart> and say Vishnu, Vishnu, Vishnu. I was so young that I would say 'Bistu'! Go> to any publisher and you will find copies of the Bhagavat Gita lying on the> floor like vegetables. The most holy Rig Veda which finds a place a the> alter is not given any more respect. For them it is just another book after> all the Rig Veda and Bhagavat Gita are just another book(s). > > What is the real Veda is the akshara in them or the syllables which placed> in certain meters symbolise God Himself in His various manifestations. For> example, there are 10 mandalas in the Rig Veda (anything to do with the> digital system and the navagraha + lagna? see how my mind thinks). There are> various metre's called chhanda and these symbolise the potential of the Lord> for action of which primary are the seven metres gayatri etc. Gayatri has> the creative aspect to it. > > The *real* book or vidya is hidden in the akshara that makes thoses words> and those words that makes those riks or metre's. The *unreal* vidya is the> one that is manifested materially as a white paper with black ink markings> symbolisingthe akshara. Languages vary and the markings will change from one> language to another that the book is published in. So the Vedas, Vedangas,> Upanishads etc are all Aparavidya when viewed either from the publishers> perspective or from the perspective of the material world but the same are> Paraa Vidya when viewed from the perspective of a Sadhaka (one who is making> the RIGHT EFFORT) for the Paraa Vidya (supreme knowledge that defines the> Lord).> > I will illustrate my point (as is my habit).> Illustration-1: Devata Vishnu Action: Upholding Dharma> ÇIi[ pda iv c³me iv:[ugaeRpa Ada_y>, Atae xmaRi[ xaryn!.> tréëi padä vi cakrame viñëurgopä adäbhyaù | ato dharmäëi dhärayan ||> This rik of the Rig Veda can be interpreted in many ways. > > One from the spiritual view, we see that Vishnu has defined Dharma by> placing his holy feet (12th house-see Ista devata reference) in the chakra.> These feet are placed in 'Bhu', Bhuva and Svah lokas. Thus we get the first> definition of dharma as given by Brihaspati - 'om bhur bhuva svah'. This is> related to the Vamana avatar and hence Parasara rightly attributes the> highest manfestation of Jupiter as the Vishnu avatara - Sri Vaamana. (there> is more to this name)> > Two from the phenomenal view where the action is cognizible, we find that> the first foot on Bhu loka or the earth and second foot on the Bhuva or the> solar system creates the tropical zodiac where all terrestrial phenomena> happen due to the interation between these two lokas. The zodiac for this> has been explained by Parasara in the Vishnu Purana as the Tropical zodiac> (call it Vishnu Chakra). The first foot on Bhuloka and the third foot on> Svah loka destroys ahamkara (like Raja Bali) and the interaction between> these two feet of the lord causes the Svahloka (stars in the galaxy) to> influence life on Bhuloka (earth plane). This interactive chart is the> Sidereal (star based) Zodiac. This is Jyotisa shastra and the vedanga.> > Three from the Paraa Vidya perspective, it teaches that the three most holy> aspects of Vishnu are 'A' 'U' and 'M' which represent the creation,> preservation and dissolution as the primary activity of the lord of all> beings. The esoterc teaching here is of the sookshma pranava - AUM. The word> padam also means steps in a process and indicates that everything that is> being created shall be sustained and then dissolved. The most hidden meaning> is learning detatchment from these processes as they are sure to happen> around everybody and everything.> > Four from the phonological perspective, the metre has each feet consisting> of 8 akshara each that combine to form the tri-pada metre called Gayatri.> Hence Krishna says that among the metres I am gayatri (Bhagavat Gita). > > Five from the kalachakra perspective, the two chakras are derived from the> interaction between (1) the bhuloka and bhuva loka and (2) bhuloka and svah> loka. These chakras or zodiacs have 27 nakshatra and 12 signs which are> physically identifiable. Yet we find that the moon takes slightly more than> 27 days to cover the sidereal zodiac and this technically requires the> creation of another nakshatra. Since this nakshatra cannot be physically> identified it is a intercalary nakshatra. The feet of Vishnu being on the> three lokas is helping us to identify these three lokas as physically> independant entities, yet the body of Vishnu which is not visible connects> these two feet of Vishnu and consequently connects the lokas. This invisible> body of Vishnu is identified as the last intercalary invisible nakshatra> called 'Abhijit'. This brings us to yet another definition and that is of> Abhijit and that it is 'Hari-vamsa' or the family of Hari or Vishnu and this> nakshatra interconnects the two chakras and the three worlds (physically> manifested planes of 1) earth, 2) solar system and 3) the galaxies of the> universe).> > Every Rik of the Rig Veda can be interpreted in so many ways. I am aware of> a nmber of other ways but I think I have made the point that the knowledge> (vidya) is both Paraa and Aparaa depending on the viewpoint or the> perspective of the reader. > > There are various other issues that yourself, Sarbani, Saaji, Ajit, Partha> etc have raised. I am happy that such an enlightened discusson has taken> place in Varahamihira. I shall not like to comment on the other issues as I> know tha you all like each other very much and in every family food tastes> differ and we have to learn to cook for the whole family...don't want anyone> starving.> > Finally exodus is no solution to the vexed questions of Jyotish and> Spirituality. SJC has been formed for 'Jyotish and Spirituality' and this> thread cannot break just as the Abhijit nakshatra although not visible is> the most vital nakshatra, so also the spiritual aspect of Jyotish though not> visible is the soul of the subject. It is my fault for raising the topic on> Atmakaraka which has led to all this soul searching and some poison is bound> to churn up....it all depends on the placement of AK in our own charts!!! I> think it will be worthwhile to check the Drig dasa of the main participants> of this discussion.> > Can some kind soul please post the chart of Saaji, Prabodh, Sarbani,> Chandrasekhar, Ajit, Partha and last but not least (this scribe!!)> > With best wishes and warm regards,> Sanjay Rath> * * *> Sri Jagannath Center®> 15B Gangaram Hospital Road > New Delhi 110060, India> http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162> * * *> > > ________________________________> Chandrashekhar [chandrashekhar46] > Friday, March 18, 2005 3:34 AM> varahamihira > Re: |Sri Varaha| Mundakya on Para> > Dear Ajit,> You are right. This is what I have been trying to convey, I hope you> succeed.> Chandrashekhar.> > Ajit Krishnan wrote: > <!--[if mso 9]--> <!--[endif]--> > > > .. hamsasso.aham ..> > > > Dear Sarbani and others,> > > > SS: "I decided to give you Shankara's commentary on this, as he is more> hardhitting than I can be."> > > > Just as a bad reading of the upanishads can be misleading, a bad reading of> Shankara's commentary can be equally misleading. > > > > SS: Shankara's answer to this is, the definition of vidya in this instance> is to realize. No doubt the Vedas, Vedangas and the Upanishads impart> Para Vidya> > > > Shankara teaches that the primary purpose of vedanta is to teach the> bramha-vidya which cannot be taught. It is in this context that his> commentary must be read. The hard hitting Shankara says "Para vidya is that> knowledge of the impreishable which is imparted only by the Upanishads, and> not merely the assemblage of words found in the Upanishads". He chooses the> upanishads, and the upanishads alone in his example. His parampara (the> keeper of his views) does not hold that the "vedangas impart para vidya". > > > > Madhusudana Saraswati wrote somewhere in his commentary on the Gita that> when two objects are compared, and one is disparaged, it is often done> solely to eulogize the other object. When we say that the teachings of the> upanishads alone 'impart' brahma-vidya, the aim is to the raise the> upanishads to new dizzying heights, and not to lower any other subject.> However…..> > > > SS: The Vedas, Vedangas and Vedantas (the last includes the Upanishads) all> teach Brahmagyana. That is the ultimate aim of jyotish, as it is a> vedanga…can we be jyotisis at that level?> > > > The upanishads are useful only because they impart para vidya. Using it for> other purposes can be very, very dangerous. The knowledge of Jyotisha is> very much useful in daily life. It is also true that it's ultimate aim, like> the aim of all shastras is certainly to bring about brahmagyana.> > > > When Shankara discriminates between the karma-kanda and gyana-kanda of the> vedas, and accepts only the latter as attempting to point directly to> brahman, it seems silly to attempt to quote his words to convey that the> primary role of Jyotisha and the Upanishads are the same.> > > > SS: Shankara adds, that this para knowledge can only be achieved after> reading and understanding the scriptures, when you decide to take the> shelter of a guru and take vairagya.> > > > Yes, his parampara is very clear in saying that vividhiShaa sannyaasa is> required as a preparation for Brahman-realization. Let us use this as the> measuring stick for a moment. Is the percentage of Jyotishas who take to> sannyasa larger than the percentage of the general public who take to> sannyasa? Is the percentage of Jyotishas who take to sannyasa equal to or> larger than the percentage of Vedantins who take to sannyasa?> > > > GD commented on "how dangerous little knowledge can be"> > > > Indeed.> > > > ajit> ________________________________> > > |Om Tat Sat|> http://www.varahamihira > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2005 Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 Dear Sanjay, My opinion is that for doing Sadhana throughout one's Life including observance of Yama and Niyama, 5th, 9th Lagna and moon should have Sambandha with auspicious planets. Lagna, Moon, 5th Lord and Ketu will have to be pretty strong. To do Sadhana more as a ritual than search of Parabrahman, perhaps Mars would have connection with Moon and 9th house. Chandrashekhar. Sanjay Rath wrote: Jaya Jagannatha Dear Chandrasekhar ji and all If we have sadhana for Jagannath, then we should exhibit it. One of the profound movies I saw in my life was 'do ankhen bara haath' (two eyes - twelve hands' and even today the songs and lessons play a significant role in my thinking. Ahimsa is the greatest of virtues ... What made Gautama Buddha and Mahatma Gandhi take to this? Can anyone comment from their charts and how can w find this in our charts? With best wishes and warm regards, Sanjay Rath * * * Sri Jagannath Center® 15B Gangaram Hospital Road New Delhi 110060, India http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162 * * * Chandrashekhar [chandrashekhar46] Sunday, March 20, 2005 2:24 AM varahamihira Re: |Sri Varaha| Mundakya on Para Dear Sanjay, I agree with what you have said and if you read my mails, I had said the same in my reply to Sanjay P. It is how a Vidya is used will make it either Para or Apara. This is also what Shankaracharya had explained. About your reference to exodus, have you read mails written about me having a hidden agenda? You are aware that I generally do not get into arguments and feel it better to retreat than to make a public show. Unfortunately this appears to be taken as inability to stand against an onslaught. At my age I am not very comfortable at reasons being attributed to statements in lieu of quotes from authoritative texts. I will write my views on Vyasa List. Chandrashekhar. |Om Tat Sat| http://www.varahamihira Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2005 Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 Dear J. K. Da, You are so modest. Sanskrit has undergone many changes through passage of time and many other than the Grammar of Panini were used in times gone by. Even then most of Indian languages being rooted in Sanskrit, one can understand the intent of Sanskrit shlokas, in most instances. Regards, Chandrashekhar. jk.dasgupta wrote: Yes Chandrashekharji. I am well aware of my weakness of not understanding sanskrit. So I always look for logical explanatory comentries. Best regards jk ----- Original Message ----- Chandrashekhar To: varahamihira Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2005 02:39 Subject: Re: |Sri Varaha| Mundakya on Para Dear J.K. Da, You are making a profound statement and yet claim to be a slow learner. It is rightly said " Vidya Vinayen Shobhate" Chandrashekhar. jk.dasgupta wrote: Dear all, My spiritual sikhsa guru Swami Chinmayanandaji used to tell that spirituality is a subject by itself- like medical or engineering. By worshiping medical books everyday-one can never become a doctor. Like that just worshiping the scriptures everyday or mugging up the slokas therin one can never become knowledgeable. He used to always tell that scriptures are to be studied by sitting at the feet of guru - as sanskrit is a difficult and tricky language. Simple literal meaning of one sanskrit word may be misleading and may mean so many things. A guru has to explain what the sloka actually means. He also used to warn always not to pick up one sloka from a scripture and jump to interpret it. The slokas are to be studied in totality. That is the reason the slokas of Scriptures have often been misinterpreted. Swamiji used to teach that Brahma vidya or para vidya is beyond words. It is beyond the perception of awaken state of human being. Therefore the teacher in the scripures always uses examples to explain the truth to the nearest possible fineness and therefore all the scriptures follow a certain logic to arive at a conclusion. After that, following that direction shown by guru & realising the truth is the job of the student. Realising the truth is only possible in deep meditative stage and once the truth is realised all arguments end there. (and I am far far from it :-), just repeating what Swamiji used to tell) Till the truth is such realised - every vidya is apara and the argument continues. Such arguments among scholars have taken place in past - are taking place in present and will take place in future also. That is the process of evaluation. Whatever have been discussed in this chain were simply fantastic. We are all human being.. so it is natural for us to get imotional at certain point. In my openion those imotional portions should not be taken seriously. Imotions will come and go - but the windows opened towards the knowledge during the process will always remain opened. Personally I am not at all knowledgeable in sanskrit - so always look for the explanatory comentries of slokas and the logic behind the explanations. That is why I am a very slow learner. regards and with best wishes jk ----- Original Message ----- lakshmi ramesh To: varahamihira Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 22:49 Subject: RE: |Sri Varaha| Mundakya on Para Om Gurave Namah Dear Ajit, Well, I was certainly not the one who talked about swarupa-gynaana and vritti-gynaana.... Jokes apart, you are absolutely right...its high time we stop concentrating on words and start concentrating on feelings. Your posts are always wonderful, Ajit. Please keep writing more often. Regards, Lakshmi Ajit Krishnan <astro wrote: ... hamsasso.aham .. Dear Lakshmi, We started with the Mundaka upanishad which teaches that this para vidya is beyond names, but are back to insisting upon names, words and dictionaries. Call this gyana Shiva, or call him Vishnu. Have faith, surrender to him, and be happy. ajit lakshmi ramesh [b_lakshmi_ramesh] Friday, March 18, 2005 3:35 AM varahamihira RE: |Sri Varaha| Mundakya on Para Om Gurave Namah Namaste Ajit, Thaks for this excellent mail. However, I want to know the "name" of the gynana by which a spider, an elephant, a snake, a hunter realized God. The spider spun the web for sheltering the idol of Shiva, the elephant bathed Him with water brought in its trunk, the snake adorned Him with naga maNis and the hunter offered the meat of animals he killed as naivedyam. They were not versed in vedas or upanishads...yet, they realized God by serving Him in their own little, natural ways. In their dictionary probably para vidya consisted of two simple words...belief and surrender. And I think they are right. Is "Ishaanah sarva vidyaanaam" incorrect? Regards, Lakshmi |Om Tat Sat| http://www.varahamihira |Om Tat Sat| http://www.varahamihira |Om Tat Sat| http://www.varahamihira Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2005 Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 Dear Sanjay, Here is Saaji's chart attached. Chandrashekhar. Sanjay Rath wrote: Jaya Jagannatha Dear Partha I should have known..you are the kind soul. Others kindly get the charts from Partha's mail. Let's see the particiapnts- 1. Sarbani Sarkar. Mina Lagna with Guru in 12th in Kumbha. Drig dasa is Kanya an earthy sign (aspecting the lagna) and antardasa is Mesha aspecting natal Jupiter as the transit Jupiter is in Virgo over drig dasa rasi. 2. Chandrasekhar Sharma. Dhanus Lagna with Guru in 11th house in Libra. Drig dasa is Kanya an earthy sign (aspecting the lagna) and antardasa is Libra with Guru in it! See that Sarbani and Chandrasekhar have an exactly similar drig dasa of 'argumentative Kanya' with the dasa rasi aspecting lagna i.e. they are *really* and honestly seeking answers. Can you see how the antardasa in both the cases relate to the sign occupied by Guru causing them to debate on Paraa Vidya and Aparaa Vidya instead of whether actresses are wearing shorter hems these days. Just see how the drig dasa is clearly causing the person to focus on spiritual knowledge. Theproblem is that they would not have read the Upanishad on their own and *Saaji* was the nimitta for them to read the Upanishad. See how Jupiter causes them to read the holy scriptures. 3. Let us examine the other Gurus invloved. Pathasarathy has Dhanus Lagna with Jupiter in Aries. He is under Cancer drig dasa with Saturn in it but the real clincher is the antardasa is ALSO of Aries with Jupiter in it!!! Thus in all three cases we have the gurus with antardasa directly linked to Jupiter searching for the knowledge of the Upanishads. Now come to the students. 3. Prabodh Venkhade. Mesha Lagna with Guru in Simha in 5th house. Drig dasa is Makara an earthy sign aspecting natal Guru but not lagna. Please note that Makara is the sign causing doubts but Guru aspecting the dasa rasi removes the doubts. The antardasa is Mina with the eclipse combination of Sun + Rahu and Saturn joining it. 'Saadhana' not required until the aspect of Jupier seems to have changed someting but everything cannot change until September when the antardasa changes. However the dasa rasi is aspected by Jupiter indicating the grace of Guru during the entire dasa period. 4. Saaji Don't have his chart With best wishes and warm regards, Sanjay Rath * * * Sri Jagannath Center® 15B Gangaram Hospital Road New Delhi 110060, India http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162 * * * Partha Sarathy [partvinu] Saturday, March 19, 2005 1:42 PM varahamihira Re: |Sri Varaha| Mundakya on Para Dear Sanjayji I am attatching the files of five of the six people mentioned. Is the attatchment sufficient, or do i need to copy paste the rasi-navamsa? best wishes partha On Sat, 19 Mar 2005 12:18:33 +0530, SRath.com <guruji wrote: > Jaya Jagannatha > Dear Chandrasekhar ji et.al, > > It is a question of viewpoint. mano to mai ganga maa hun na mano to baheta > paani...should sum up the discussion. When I was a kid, my feet touched a > book and my mother scolded me and taught me to life the book and put it in > its place and then to touch the book, touch my head and to touch my heart > and say Vishnu, Vishnu, Vishnu. I was so young that I would say 'Bistu'! Go > to any publisher and you will find copies of the Bhagavat Gita lying on the > floor like vegetables. The most holy Rig Veda which finds a place a the > alter is not given any more respect. For them it is just another book after > all the Rig Veda and Bhagavat Gita are just another book(s). > > What is the real Veda is the akshara in them or the syllables which placed > in certain meters symbolise God Himself in His various manifestations. For > example, there are 10 mandalas in the Rig Veda (anything to do with the > digital system and the navagraha + lagna? see how my mind thinks). There are > various metre's called chhanda and these symbolise the potential of the Lord > for action of which primary are the seven metres gayatri etc. Gayatri has > the creative aspect to it. > > The *real* book or vidya is hidden in the akshara that makes thoses words > and those words that makes those riks or metre's. The *unreal* vidya is the > one that is manifested materially as a white paper with black ink markings > symbolisingthe akshara. Languages vary and the markings will change from one > language to another that the book is published in. So the Vedas, Vedangas, > Upanishads etc are all Aparavidya when viewed either from the publishers > perspective or from the perspective of the material world but the same are > Paraa Vidya when viewed from the perspective of a Sadhaka (one who is making > the RIGHT EFFORT) for the Paraa Vidya (supreme knowledge that defines the > Lord). > > I will illustrate my point (as is my habit). > Illustration-1: Devata Vishnu Action: Upholding Dharma > ÇIi[ pda iv c³me iv:[ugaeRpa Ada_y>, Atae xmaRi[ xaryn!. > tréëi padä vi cakrame viñëurgopä adäbhyaù | ato dharmäëi dhärayan || > This rik of the Rig Veda can be interpreted in many ways. > > One from the spiritual view, we see that Vishnu has defined Dharma by > placing his holy feet (12th house-see Ista devata reference) in the chakra. > These feet are placed in 'Bhu', Bhuva and Svah lokas. Thus we get the first > definition of dharma as given by Brihaspati - 'om bhur bhuva svah'. This is > related to the Vamana avatar and hence Parasara rightly attributes the > highest manfestation of Jupiter as the Vishnu avatara - Sri Vaamana. (there > is more to this name) > > Two from the phenomenal view where the action is cognizible, we find that > the first foot on Bhu loka or the earth and second foot on the Bhuva or the > solar system creates the tropical zodiac where all terrestrial phenomena > happen due to the interation between these two lokas. The zodiac for this > has been explained by Parasara in the Vishnu Purana as the Tropical zodiac > (call it Vishnu Chakra). The first foot on Bhuloka and the third foot on > Svah loka destroys ahamkara (like Raja Bali) and the interaction between > these two feet of the lord causes the Svahloka (stars in the galaxy) to > influence life on Bhuloka (earth plane). This interactive chart is the > Sidereal (star based) Zodiac. This is Jyotisa shastra and the vedanga. > > Three from the Paraa Vidya perspective, it teaches that the three most holy > aspects of Vishnu are 'A' 'U' and 'M' which represent the creation, > preservation and dissolution as the primary activity of the lord of all > beings. The esoterc teaching here is of the sookshma pranava - AUM. The word > padam also means steps in a process and indicates that everything that is > being created shall be sustained and then dissolved. The most hidden meaning > is learning detatchment from these processes as they are sure to happen > around everybody and everything. > > Four from the phonological perspective, the metre has each feet consisting > of 8 akshara each that combine to form the tri-pada metre called Gayatri. > Hence Krishna says that among the metres I am gayatri (Bhagavat Gita). > > Five from the kalachakra perspective, the two chakras are derived from the > interaction between (1) the bhuloka and bhuva loka and (2) bhuloka and svah > loka. These chakras or zodiacs have 27 nakshatra and 12 signs which are > physically identifiable. Yet we find that the moon takes slightly more than > 27 days to cover the sidereal zodiac and this technically requires the > creation of another nakshatra. Since this nakshatra cannot be physically > identified it is a intercalary nakshatra. The feet of Vishnu being on the > three lokas is helping us to identify these three lokas as physically > independant entities, yet the body of Vishnu which is not visible connects > these two feet of Vishnu and consequently connects the lokas. This invisible > body of Vishnu is identified as the last intercalary invisible nakshatra > called 'Abhijit'. This brings us to yet another definition and that is of > Abhijit and that it is 'Hari-vamsa' or the family of Hari or Vishnu and this > nakshatra interconnects the two chakras and the three worlds (physically > manifested planes of 1) earth, 2) solar system and 3) the galaxies of the > universe). > > Every Rik of the Rig Veda can be interpreted in so many ways. I am aware of > a nmber of other ways but I think I have made the point that the knowledge > (vidya) is both Paraa and Aparaa depending on the viewpoint or the > perspective of the reader. > > There are various other issues that yourself, Sarbani, Saaji, Ajit, Partha > etc have raised. I am happy that such an enlightened discusson has taken > place in Varahamihira. I shall not like to comment on the other issues as I > know tha you all like each other very much and in every family food tastes > differ and we have to learn to cook for the whole family...don't want anyone > starving. > > Finally exodus is no solution to the vexed questions of Jyotish and > Spirituality. SJC has been formed for 'Jyotish and Spirituality' and this > thread cannot break just as the Abhijit nakshatra although not visible is > the most vital nakshatra, so also the spiritual aspect of Jyotish though not > visible is the soul of the subject. It is my fault for raising the topic on > Atmakaraka which has led to all this soul searching and some poison is bound > to churn up....it all depends on the placement of AK in our own charts!!! I > think it will be worthwhile to check the Drig dasa of the main participants > of this discussion. > > Can some kind soul please post the chart of Saaji, Prabodh, Sarbani, > Chandrasekhar, Ajit, Partha and last but not least (this scribe!!) > > With best wishes and warm regards, > Sanjay Rath > * * * > Sri Jagannath Center® > 15B Gangaram Hospital Road > New Delhi 110060, India > http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162 > * * * > > > ________________________________ > Chandrashekhar [chandrashekhar46] > Friday, March 18, 2005 3:34 AM > varahamihira > Re: |Sri Varaha| Mundakya on Para > > Dear Ajit, > You are right. This is what I have been trying to convey, I hope you > succeed. > Chandrashekhar. > > Ajit Krishnan wrote: > <!--[if mso 9]--> <!--[endif]--> > > > .. hamsasso.aham .. > > > > Dear Sarbani and others, > > > > SS: "I decided to give you Shankara's commentary on this, as he is more > hardhitting than I can be." > > > > Just as a bad reading of the upanishads can be misleading, a bad reading of > Shankara's commentary can be equally misleading. > > > > SS: Shankara's answer to this is, the definition of vidya in this instance > is to realize. No doubt the Vedas, Vedangas and the Upanishads impart > Para Vidya > > > > Shankara teaches that the primary purpose of vedanta is to teach the > bramha-vidya which cannot be taught. It is in this context that his > commentary must be read. The hard hitting Shankara says "Para vidya is that > knowledge of the impreishable which is imparted only by the Upanishads, and > not merely the assemblage of words found in the Upanishads". He chooses the > upanishads, and the upanishads alone in his example. His parampara (the > keeper of his views) does not hold that the "vedangas impart para vidya". > > > > Madhusudana Saraswati wrote somewhere in his commentary on the Gita that > when two objects are compared, and one is disparaged, it is often done > solely to eulogize the other object. When we say that the teachings of the > upanishads alone 'impart' brahma-vidya, the aim is to the raise the > upanishads to new dizzying heights, and not to lower any other subject. > However….. > > > > SS: The Vedas, Vedangas and Vedantas (the last includes the Upanishads) all > teach Brahmagyana. That is the ultimate aim of jyotish, as it is a > vedanga…can we be jyotisis at that level? > > > > The upanishads are useful only because they impart para vidya. Using it for > other purposes can be very, very dangerous. The knowledge of Jyotisha is > very much useful in daily life. It is also true that it's ultimate aim, like > the aim of all shastras is certainly to bring about brahmagyana. > > > > When Shankara discriminates between the karma-kanda and gyana-kanda of the > vedas, and accepts only the latter as attempting to point directly to > brahman, it seems silly to attempt to quote his words to convey that the > primary role of Jyotisha and the Upanishads are the same. > > > > SS: Shankara adds, that this para knowledge can only be achieved after > reading and understanding the scriptures, when you decide to take the > shelter of a guru and take vairagya. > > > > Yes, his parampara is very clear in saying that vividhiShaa sannyaasa is > required as a preparation for Brahman-realization. Let us use this as the > measuring stick for a moment. Is the percentage of Jyotishas who take to > sannyasa larger than the percentage of the general public who take to > sannyasa? Is the percentage of Jyotishas who take to sannyasa equal to or > larger than the percentage of Vedantins who take to sannyasa? > > > > GD commented on "how dangerous little knowledge can be" > > > > Indeed. > > > > ajit > ________________________________ > > > |Om Tat Sat| > http://www.varahamihira > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2005 Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 ... hamsasso.aham .. Dear Guru, I believe the other charts have been posted to the list in the last 2 days. ajit Sanjay Rath [guruji] Friday, March 18, 2005 10:49 PM … Can some kind soul please post the chart of Saaji, Prabodh, Sarbani, Chandrasekhar, Ajit, Partha and last but not least (this scribe!!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2005 Report Share Posted March 21, 2005 Dear Chandrashekharji, That is the most sadest part. I know that most Indian languages are based on sanskrit and if one is good in grammar of any Indian language - it is not difficult for him to understand sanskrit. But I am not good in grammar of any Indian language-not even bengali. Best regards jk - Chandrashekhar varahamihira Monday, March 21, 2005 03:00 Re: |Sri Varaha| Mundakya on Para Dear J. K. Da,You are so modest. Sanskrit has undergone many changes through passage of time and many other than the Grammar of Panini were used in times gone by. Even then most of Indian languages being rooted in Sanskrit, one can understand the intent of Sanskrit shlokas, in most instances.Regards,Chandrashekhar.jk.dasgupta wrote: Yes Chandrashekharji. I am well aware of my weakness of not understanding sanskrit. So I always look for logical explanatory comentries. Best regards jk - Chandrashekhar varahamihira Sunday, March 20, 2005 02:39 Re: |Sri Varaha| Mundakya on Para Dear J.K. Da, You are making a profound statement and yet claim to be a slow learner. It is rightly said " Vidya Vinayen Shobhate"Chandrashekhar.jk.dasgupta wrote: Dear all, My spiritual sikhsa guru Swami Chinmayanandaji used to tell that spirituality is a subject by itself- like medical or engineering. By worshiping medical books everyday-one can never become a doctor. Like that just worshiping the scriptures everyday or mugging up the slokas therin one can never become knowledgeable. He used to always tell that scriptures are to be studied by sitting at the feet of guru - as sanskrit is a difficult and tricky language. Simple literal meaning of one sanskrit word may be misleading and may mean so many things. A guru has to explain what the sloka actually means. He also used to warn always not to pick up one sloka from a scripture and jump to interpret it. The slokas are to be studied in totality. That is the reason the slokas of Scriptures have often been misinterpreted. Swamiji used to teach that Brahma vidya or para vidya is beyond words. It is beyond the perception of awaken state of human being. Therefore the teacher in the scripures always uses examples to explain the truth to the nearest possible fineness and therefore all the scriptures follow a certain logic to arive at a conclusion. After that, following that direction shown by guru & realising the truth is the job of the student. Realising the truth is only possible in deep meditative stage and once the truth is realised all arguments end there. (and I am far far from it :-), just repeating what Swamiji used to tell) Till the truth is such realised - every vidya is apara and the argument continues. Such arguments among scholars have taken place in past - are taking place in present and will take place in future also. That is the process of evaluation. Whatever have been discussed in this chain were simply fantastic. We are all human being.. so it is natural for us to get imotional at certain point. In my openion those imotional portions should not be taken seriously. Imotions will come and go - but the windows opened towards the knowledge during the process will always remain opened. Personally I am not at all knowledgeable in sanskrit - so always look for the explanatory comentries of slokas and the logic behind the explanations. That is why I am a very slow learner. regards and with best wishes jk - lakshmi ramesh varahamihira Friday, March 18, 2005 22:49 RE: |Sri Varaha| Mundakya on Para Om Gurave Namah Dear Ajit, Well, I was certainly not the one who talked about swarupa-gynaana and vritti-gynaana.... Jokes apart, you are absolutely right...its high time we stop concentrating on words and start concentrating on feelings. Your posts are always wonderful, Ajit. Please keep writing more often. Regards, LakshmiAjit Krishnan <astro wrote: ... hamsasso.aham .. Dear Lakshmi, We started with the Mundaka upanishad which teaches that this para vidya is beyond names, but are back to insisting upon names, words and dictionaries. Call this gyana Shiva, or call him Vishnu. Have faith, surrender to him, and be happy. ajit lakshmi ramesh [b_lakshmi_ramesh] Friday, March 18, 2005 3:35 AMvarahamihira Subject: RE: |Sri Varaha| Mundakya on Para Om Gurave Namah Namaste Ajit, Thaks for this excellent mail. However, I want to know the "name" of the gynana by which a spider, an elephant, a snake, a hunter realized God. The spider spun the web for sheltering the idol of Shiva, the elephant bathed Him with water brought in its trunk, the snake adorned Him with naga maNis and the hunter offered the meat of animals he killed as naivedyam. They were not versed in vedas or upanishads...yet, they realized God by serving Him in their own little, natural ways. In their dictionary probably para vidya consisted of two simple words...belief and surrender. And I think they are right. Is "Ishaanah sarva vidyaanaam" incorrect? Regards, Lakshmi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2005 Report Share Posted March 21, 2005 Jaya Jagannatha Dear Chadrasekhar ji BULL'S EYE again...see Saaji has just started the drig dasa of Aries with Jupiter in it and is seeking spiritual knowledge. The first antardasa was of Mars in 8th house in Gemini! I don't have to coment on this antardasa, it is simple and straight and it does not aspect the lagna, nor 9th but has lagnesh...*buddhi* is a strange thing sometimes, as in the 8th house the lagna lord causes learning through fighting (Mars), research and doubting. But it will be learning as the dasa has Guru in it and aspects lagna. Saaji seeks a guru and should find one in a Sanyasin who will guide him...ask him to meet ammachi or some such lady saint. See BK for details With best wishes and warm regards, Sanjay Rath * * * Sri Jagannath Center® 15B Gangaram Hospital Road New Delhi 110060, India http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162 * * * Chandrashekhar [chandrashekhar46] Monday, March 21, 2005 3:31 AMvarahamihira Subject: Re: |Sri Varaha| Mundakya on Para Dear Sanjay,Here is Saaji's chart attached.Chandrashekhar.Sanjay Rath wrote: Jaya Jagannatha Dear Partha I should have known..you are the kind soul. Others kindly get the charts from Partha's mail. Let's see the particiapnts- 1. Sarbani Sarkar. Mina Lagna with Guru in 12th in Kumbha. Drig dasa is Kanya an earthy sign (aspecting the lagna) and antardasa is Mesha aspecting natal Jupiter as the transit Jupiter is in Virgo over drig dasa rasi. 2. Chandrasekhar Sharma. Dhanus Lagna with Guru in 11th house in Libra. Drig dasa is Kanya an earthy sign (aspecting the lagna) and antardasa is Libra with Guru in it! See that Sarbani and Chandrasekhar have an exactly similar drig dasa of 'argumentative Kanya' with the dasa rasi aspecting lagna i.e. they are *really* and honestly seeking answers. Can you see how the antardasa in both the cases relate to the sign occupied by Guru causing them to debate on Paraa Vidya and Aparaa Vidya instead of whether actresses are wearing shorter hems these days. Just see how the drig dasa is clearly causing the person to focus on spiritual knowledge. Theproblem is that they would not have read the Upanishad on their own and *Saaji* was the nimitta for them to read the Upanishad. See how Jupiter causes them to read the holy scriptures. 3. Let us examine the other Gurus invloved. Pathasarathy has Dhanus Lagna with Jupiter in Aries. He is under Cancer drig dasa with Saturn in it but the real clincher is the antardasa is ALSO of Aries with Jupiter in it!!! Thus in all three cases we have the gurus with antardasa directly linked to Jupiter searching for the knowledge of the Upanishads. Now come to the students. 3. Prabodh Venkhade. Mesha Lagna with Guru in Simha in 5th house. Drig dasa is Makara an earthy sign aspecting natal Guru but not lagna. Please note that Makara is the sign causing doubts but Guru aspecting the dasa rasi removes the doubts. The antardasa is Mina with the eclipse combination of Sun + Rahu and Saturn joining it. 'Saadhana' not required until the aspect of Jupier seems to have changed someting but everything cannot change until September when the antardasa changes. However the dasa rasi is aspected by Jupiter indicating the grace of Guru during the entire dasa period. 4. Saaji Don't have his chart With best wishes and warm regards, Sanjay Rath * * * Sri Jagannath Center® 15B Gangaram Hospital Road New Delhi 110060, India http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162 * * * Partha Sarathy [partvinu] Saturday, March 19, 2005 1:42 PMvarahamihira Subject: Re: |Sri Varaha| Mundakya on ParaDear SanjayjiI am attatching the files of five of the six people mentioned. Is theattatchment sufficient, or do i need to copy paste the rasi-navamsa?best wishesparthaOn Sat, 19 Mar 2005 12:18:33 +0530, SRath.com <guruji wrote:> Jaya Jagannatha> Dear Chandrasekhar ji et.al,> > It is a question of viewpoint. mano to mai ganga maa hun na mano to baheta> paani...should sum up the discussion. When I was a kid, my feet touched a> book and my mother scolded me and taught me to life the book and put it in> its place and then to touch the book, touch my head and to touch my heart> and say Vishnu, Vishnu, Vishnu. I was so young that I would say 'Bistu'! Go> to any publisher and you will find copies of the Bhagavat Gita lying on the> floor like vegetables. The most holy Rig Veda which finds a place a the> alter is not given any more respect. For them it is just another book after> all the Rig Veda and Bhagavat Gita are just another book(s). > > What is the real Veda is the akshara in them or the syllables which placed> in certain meters symbolise God Himself in His various manifestations. For> example, there are 10 mandalas in the Rig Veda (anything to do with the> digital system and the navagraha + lagna? see how my mind thinks). There are> various metre's called chhanda and these symbolise the potential of the Lord> for action of which primary are the seven metres gayatri etc. Gayatri has> the creative aspect to it. > > The *real* book or vidya is hidden in the akshara that makes thoses words> and those words that makes those riks or metre's. The *unreal* vidya is the> one that is manifested materially as a white paper with black ink markings> symbolisingthe akshara. Languages vary and the markings will change from one> language to another that the book is published in. So the Vedas, Vedangas,> Upanishads etc are all Aparavidya when viewed either from the publishers> perspective or from the perspective of the material world but the same are> Paraa Vidya when viewed from the perspective of a Sadhaka (one who is making> the RIGHT EFFORT) for the Paraa Vidya (supreme knowledge that defines the> Lord).> > I will illustrate my point (as is my habit).> Illustration-1: Devata Vishnu Action: Upholding Dharma> ÇIi[ pda iv c³me iv:[ugaeRpa Ada_y>, Atae xmaRi[ xaryn!.> tréëi padä vi cakrame viñëurgopä adäbhyaù | ato dharmäëi dhärayan ||> This rik of the Rig Veda can be interpreted in many ways. > > One from the spiritual view, we see that Vishnu has defined Dharma by> placing his holy feet (12th house-see Ista devata reference) in the chakra.> These feet are placed in 'Bhu', Bhuva and Svah lokas. Thus we get the first> definition of dharma as given by Brihaspati - 'om bhur bhuva svah'. This is> related to the Vamana avatar and hence Parasara rightly attributes the> highest manfestation of Jupiter as the Vishnu avatara - Sri Vaamana. (there> is more to this name)> > Two from the phenomenal view where the action is cognizible, we find that> the first foot on Bhu loka or the earth and second foot on the Bhuva or the> solar system creates the tropical zodiac where all terrestrial phenomena> happen due to the interation between these two lokas. The zodiac for this> has been explained by Parasara in the Vishnu Purana as the Tropical zodiac> (call it Vishnu Chakra). The first foot on Bhuloka and the third foot on> Svah loka destroys ahamkara (like Raja Bali) and the interaction between> these two feet of the lord causes the Svahloka (stars in the galaxy) to> influence life on Bhuloka (earth plane). This interactive chart is the> Sidereal (star based) Zodiac. This is Jyotisa shastra and the vedanga.> > Three from the Paraa Vidya perspective, it teaches that the three most holy> aspects of Vishnu are 'A' 'U' and 'M' which represent the creation,> preservation and dissolution as the primary activity of the lord of all> beings. The esoterc teaching here is of the sookshma pranava - AUM. The word> padam also means steps in a process and indicates that everything that is> being created shall be sustained and then dissolved. The most hidden meaning> is learning detatchment from these processes as they are sure to happen> around everybody and everything.> > Four from the phonological perspective, the metre has each feet consisting> of 8 akshara each that combine to form the tri-pada metre called Gayatri.> Hence Krishna says that among the metres I am gayatri (Bhagavat Gita). > > Five from the kalachakra perspective, the two chakras are derived from the> interaction between (1) the bhuloka and bhuva loka and (2) bhuloka and svah> loka. These chakras or zodiacs have 27 nakshatra and 12 signs which are> physically identifiable. Yet we find that the moon takes slightly more than> 27 days to cover the sidereal zodiac and this technically requires the> creation of another nakshatra. Since this nakshatra cannot be physically> identified it is a intercalary nakshatra. The feet of Vishnu being on the> three lokas is helping us to identify these three lokas as physically> independant entities, yet the body of Vishnu which is not visible connects> these two feet of Vishnu and consequently connects the lokas. This invisible> body of Vishnu is identified as the last intercalary invisible nakshatra> called 'Abhijit'. This brings us to yet another definition and that is of> Abhijit and that it is 'Hari-vamsa' or the family of Hari or Vishnu and this> nakshatra interconnects the two chakras and the three worlds (physically> manifested planes of 1) earth, 2) solar system and 3) the galaxies of the> universe).> > Every Rik of the Rig Veda can be interpreted in so many ways. I am aware of> a nmber of other ways but I think I have made the point that the knowledge> (vidya) is both Paraa and Aparaa depending on the viewpoint or the> perspective of the reader. > > There are various other issues that yourself, Sarbani, Saaji, Ajit, Partha> etc have raised. I am happy that such an enlightened discusson has taken> place in Varahamihira. I shall not like to comment on the other issues as I> know tha you all like each other very much and in every family food tastes> differ and we have to learn to cook for the whole family...don't want anyone> starving.> > Finally exodus is no solution to the vexed questions of Jyotish and> Spirituality. SJC has been formed for 'Jyotish and Spirituality' and this> thread cannot break just as the Abhijit nakshatra although not visible is> the most vital nakshatra, so also the spiritual aspect of Jyotish though not> visible is the soul of the subject. It is my fault for raising the topic on> Atmakaraka which has led to all this soul searching and some poison is bound> to churn up....it all depends on the placement of AK in our own charts!!! I> think it will be worthwhile to check the Drig dasa of the main participants> of this discussion.> > Can some kind soul please post the chart of Saaji, Prabodh, Sarbani,> Chandrasekhar, Ajit, Partha and last but not least (this scribe!!)> > With best wishes and warm regards,> Sanjay Rath> * * *> Sri Jagannath Center®> 15B Gangaram Hospital Road > New Delhi 110060, India> http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162> * * *> > > ________________________________> Chandrashekhar [chandrashekhar46] > Friday, March 18, 2005 3:34 AM> varahamihira > Re: |Sri Varaha| Mundakya on Para> > Dear Ajit,> You are right. This is what I have been trying to convey, I hope you> succeed.> Chandrashekhar.> > Ajit Krishnan wrote: > <!--[if mso 9]--> <!--[endif]--> > > > .. hamsasso.aham ..> > > > Dear Sarbani and others,> > > > SS: "I decided to give you Shankara's commentary on this, as he is more> hardhitting than I can be."> > > > Just as a bad reading of the upanishads can be misleading, a bad reading of> Shankara's commentary can be equally misleading. > > > > SS: Shankara's answer to this is, the definition of vidya in this instance> is to realize. No doubt the Vedas, Vedangas and the Upanishads impart> Para Vidya> > > > Shankara teaches that the primary purpose of vedanta is to teach the> bramha-vidya which cannot be taught. It is in this context that his> commentary must be read. The hard hitting Shankara says "Para vidya is that> knowledge of the impreishable which is imparted only by the Upanishads, and> not merely the assemblage of words found in the Upanishads". He chooses the> upanishads, and the upanishads alone in his example. His parampara (the> keeper of his views) does not hold that the "vedangas impart para vidya". > > > > Madhusudana Saraswati wrote somewhere in his commentary on the Gita that> when two objects are compared, and one is disparaged, it is often done> solely to eulogize the other object. When we say that the teachings of the> upanishads alone 'impart' brahma-vidya, the aim is to the raise the> upanishads to new dizzying heights, and not to lower any other subject.> However…..> > > > SS: The Vedas, Vedangas and Vedantas (the last includes the Upanishads) all> teach Brahmagyana. That is the ultimate aim of jyotish, as it is a> vedanga…can we be jyotisis at that level?> > > > The upanishads are useful only because they impart para vidya. Using it for> other purposes can be very, very dangerous. The knowledge of Jyotisha is> very much useful in daily life. It is also true that it's ultimate aim, like> the aim of all shastras is certainly to bring about brahmagyana.> > > > When Shankara discriminates between the karma-kanda and gyana-kanda of the> vedas, and accepts only the latter as attempting to point directly to> brahman, it seems silly to attempt to quote his words to convey that the> primary role of Jyotisha and the Upanishads are the same.> > > > SS: Shankara adds, that this para knowledge can only be achieved after> reading and understanding the scriptures, when you decide to take the> shelter of a guru and take vairagya.> > > > Yes, his parampara is very clear in saying that vividhiShaa sannyaasa is> required as a preparation for Brahman-realization. Let us use this as the> measuring stick for a moment. Is the percentage of Jyotishas who take to> sannyasa larger than the percentage of the general public who take to> sannyasa? Is the percentage of Jyotishas who take to sannyasa equal to or> larger than the percentage of Vedantins who take to sannyasa?> > > > GD commented on "how dangerous little knowledge can be"> > > > Indeed.> > > > ajit> ________________________________> > > |Om Tat Sat|> http://www.varahamihira > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2005 Report Share Posted March 21, 2005 Hi Sanjay, Though not involved in this thread, wanted to stir the pot a bit by attaching my chart too... running the Cancer drig dasa, with Ju and Mo there Cheers Ramapriya ayirpamar On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 13:42:44 +0530, Sanjay Rath <guruji wrote: > > > Jaya Jagannatha > Dear Ajit > YOU TOO ARE IN KANYA Drig dasa....see how it works. > With best wishes and warm regards, > Sanjay Rath > * * * > Sri Jagannath Center® > 15B Gangaram Hospital Road > New Delhi 110060, India > http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2005 Report Share Posted March 21, 2005 Dear Partha and Sanjayji, I am attaching Lakshmi Ramesh and Ajit Krishnan's charts as well. I think they too are running Virgo drg. Let me see if I have Saaji's chart in the archives. Best regards, Sarbani Sanjay Rath [guruji] Monday, March 21, 2005 12:08 AMvarahamihira Subject: RE: |Sri Varaha| Mundakya on Para Jaya Jagannatha Dear Partha I should have known..you are the kind soul. Others kindly get the charts from Partha's mail. Let's see the particiapnts- 1. Sarbani Sarkar. Mina Lagna with Guru in 12th in Kumbha. Drig dasa is Kanya an earthy sign (aspecting the lagna) and antardasa is Mesha aspecting natal Jupiter as the transit Jupiter is in Virgo over drig dasa rasi. 2. Chandrasekhar Sharma. Dhanus Lagna with Guru in 11th house in Libra. Drig dasa is Kanya an earthy sign (aspecting the lagna) and antardasa is Libra with Guru in it! See that Sarbani and Chandrasekhar have an exactly similar drig dasa of 'argumentative Kanya' with the dasa rasi aspecting lagna i.e. they are *really* and honestly seeking answers. Can you see how the antardasa in both the cases relate to the sign occupied by Guru causing them to debate on Paraa Vidya and Aparaa Vidya instead of whether actresses are wearing shorter hems these days. Just see how the drig dasa is clearly causing the person to focus on spiritual knowledge. Theproblem is that they would not have read the Upanishad on their own and *Saaji* was the nimitta for them to read the Upanishad. See how Jupiter causes them to read the holy scriptures. 3. Let us examine the other Gurus invloved. Pathasarathy has Dhanus Lagna with Jupiter in Aries. He is under Cancer drig dasa with Saturn in it but the real clincher is the antardasa is ALSO of Aries with Jupiter in it!!! Thus in all three cases we have the gurus with antardasa directly linked to Jupiter searching for the knowledge of the Upanishads. Now come to the students. 3. Prabodh Venkhade. Mesha Lagna with Guru in Simha in 5th house. Drig dasa is Makara an earthy sign aspecting natal Guru but not lagna. Please note that Makara is the sign causing doubts but Guru aspecting the dasa rasi removes the doubts. The antardasa is Mina with the eclipse combination of Sun + Rahu and Saturn joining it. 'Saadhana' not required until the aspect of Jupier seems to have changed someting but everything cannot change until September when the antardasa changes. However the dasa rasi is aspected by Jupiter indicating the grace of Guru during the entire dasa period. 4. Saaji Don't have his chart With best wishes and warm regards, Sanjay Rath * * * Sri Jagannath Center® 15B Gangaram Hospital Road New Delhi 110060, India http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162 * * * Partha Sarathy [partvinu] Saturday, March 19, 2005 1:42 PMvarahamihira Subject: Re: |Sri Varaha| Mundakya on Para Dear SanjayjiI am attatching the files of five of the six people mentioned. Is theattatchment sufficient, or do i need to copy paste the rasi-navamsa?best wishesparthaOn Sat, 19 Mar 2005 12:18:33 +0530, SRath.com <guruji wrote:> Jaya Jagannatha> Dear Chandrasekhar ji et.al,> > It is a question of viewpoint. mano to mai ganga maa hun na mano to baheta> paani...should sum up the discussion. When I was a kid, my feet touched a> book and my mother scolded me and taught me to life the book and put it in> its place and then to touch the book, touch my head and to touch my heart> and say Vishnu, Vishnu, Vishnu. I was so young that I would say 'Bistu'! Go> to any publisher and you will find copies of the Bhagavat Gita lying on the> floor like vegetables. The most holy Rig Veda which finds a place a the> alter is not given any more respect. For them it is just another book after> all the Rig Veda and Bhagavat Gita are just another book(s). > > What is the real Veda is the akshara in them or the syllables which placed> in certain meters symbolise God Himself in His various manifestations. For> example, there are 10 mandalas in the Rig Veda (anything to do with the> digital system and the navagraha + lagna? see how my mind thinks). There are> various metre's called chhanda and these symbolise the potential of the Lord> for action of which primary are the seven metres gayatri etc. Gayatri has> the creative aspect to it. > > The *real* book or vidya is hidden in the akshara that makes thoses words> and those words that makes those riks or metre's. The *unreal* vidya is the> one that is manifested materially as a white paper with black ink markings> symbolisingthe akshara. Languages vary and the markings will change from one> language to another that the book is published in. So the Vedas, Vedangas,> Upanishads etc are all Aparavidya when viewed either from the publishers> perspective or from the perspective of the material world but the same are> Paraa Vidya when viewed from the perspective of a Sadhaka (one who is making> the RIGHT EFFORT) for the Paraa Vidya (supreme knowledge that defines the> Lord).> > I will illustrate my point (as is my habit).> Illustration-1: Devata Vishnu Action: Upholding Dharma> ÇIi[ pda iv c³me iv:[ugaeRpa Ada_y>, Atae xmaRi[ xaryn!.> tréëi padä vi cakrame viñëurgopä adäbhyaù | ato dharmäëi dhärayan ||> This rik of the Rig Veda can be interpreted in many ways. > > One from the spiritual view, we see that Vishnu has defined Dharma by> placing his holy feet (12th house-see Ista devata reference) in the chakra.> These feet are placed in 'Bhu', Bhuva and Svah lokas. Thus we get the first> definition of dharma as given by Brihaspati - 'om bhur bhuva svah'. This is> related to the Vamana avatar and hence Parasara rightly attributes the> highest manfestation of Jupiter as the Vishnu avatara - Sri Vaamana. (there> is more to this name)> > Two from the phenomenal view where the action is cognizible, we find that> the first foot on Bhu loka or the earth and second foot on the Bhuva or the> solar system creates the tropical zodiac where all terrestrial phenomena> happen due to the interation between these two lokas. The zodiac for this> has been explained by Parasara in the Vishnu Purana as the Tropical zodiac> (call it Vishnu Chakra). The first foot on Bhuloka and the third foot on> Svah loka destroys ahamkara (like Raja Bali) and the interaction between> these two feet of the lord causes the Svahloka (stars in the galaxy) to> influence life on Bhuloka (earth plane). This interactive chart is the> Sidereal (star based) Zodiac. This is Jyotisa shastra and the vedanga.> > Three from the Paraa Vidya perspective, it teaches that the three most holy> aspects of Vishnu are 'A' 'U' and 'M' which represent the creation,> preservation and dissolution as the primary activity of the lord of all> beings. The esoterc teaching here is of the sookshma pranava - AUM. The word> padam also means steps in a process and indicates that everything that is> being created shall be sustained and then dissolved. The most hidden meaning> is learning detatchment from these processes as they are sure to happen> around everybody and everything.> > Four from the phonological perspective, the metre has each feet consisting> of 8 akshara each that combine to form the tri-pada metre called Gayatri.> Hence Krishna says that among the metres I am gayatri (Bhagavat Gita). > > Five from the kalachakra perspective, the two chakras are derived from the> interaction between (1) the bhuloka and bhuva loka and (2) bhuloka and svah> loka. These chakras or zodiacs have 27 nakshatra and 12 signs which are> physically identifiable. Yet we find that the moon takes slightly more than> 27 days to cover the sidereal zodiac and this technically requires the> creation of another nakshatra. Since this nakshatra cannot be physically> identified it is a intercalary nakshatra. The feet of Vishnu being on the> three lokas is helping us to identify these three lokas as physically> independant entities, yet the body of Vishnu which is not visible connects> these two feet of Vishnu and consequently connects the lokas. This invisible> body of Vishnu is identified as the last intercalary invisible nakshatra> called 'Abhijit'. This brings us to yet another definition and that is of> Abhijit and that it is 'Hari-vamsa' or the family of Hari or Vishnu and this> nakshatra interconnects the two chakras and the three worlds (physically> manifested planes of 1) earth, 2) solar system and 3) the galaxies of the> universe).> > Every Rik of the Rig Veda can be interpreted in so many ways. I am aware of> a nmber of other ways but I think I have made the point that the knowledge> (vidya) is both Paraa and Aparaa depending on the viewpoint or the> perspective of the reader. > > There are various other issues that yourself, Sarbani, Saaji, Ajit, Partha> etc have raised. I am happy that such an enlightened discusson has taken> place in Varahamihira. I shall not like to comment on the other issues as I> know tha you all like each other very much and in every family food tastes> differ and we have to learn to cook for the whole family...don't want anyone> starving.> > Finally exodus is no solution to the vexed questions of Jyotish and> Spirituality. SJC has been formed for 'Jyotish and Spirituality' and this> thread cannot break just as the Abhijit nakshatra although not visible is> the most vital nakshatra, so also the spiritual aspect of Jyotish though not> visible is the soul of the subject. It is my fault for raising the topic on> Atmakaraka which has led to all this soul searching and some poison is bound> to churn up....it all depends on the placement of AK in our own charts!!! I> think it will be worthwhile to check the Drig dasa of the main participants> of this discussion.> > Can some kind soul please post the chart of Saaji, Prabodh, Sarbani,> Chandrasekhar, Ajit, Partha and last but not least (this scribe!!)> > With best wishes and warm regards,> Sanjay Rath> * * *> Sri Jagannath Center®> 15B Gangaram Hospital Road > New Delhi 110060, India> http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162> * * *> > > ________________________________> Chandrashekhar [chandrashekhar46] > Friday, March 18, 2005 3:34 AM> varahamihira > Re: |Sri Varaha| Mundakya on Para> > Dear Ajit,> You are right. This is what I have been trying to convey, I hope you> succeed.> Chandrashekhar.> > Ajit Krishnan wrote: > <!--[if mso 9]--> <!--[endif]--> > > > .. hamsasso.aham ..> > > > Dear Sarbani and others,> > > > SS: "I decided to give you Shankara's commentary on this, as he is more> hardhitting than I can be."> > > > Just as a bad reading of the upanishads can be misleading, a bad reading of> Shankara's commentary can be equally misleading. > > > > SS: Shankara's answer to this is, the definition of vidya in this instance> is to realize. No doubt the Vedas, Vedangas and the Upanishads impart> Para Vidya> > > > Shankara teaches that the primary purpose of vedanta is to teach the> bramha-vidya which cannot be taught. It is in this context that his> commentary must be read. The hard hitting Shankara says "Para vidya is that> knowledge of the impreishable which is imparted only by the Upanishads, and> not merely the assemblage of words found in the Upanishads". He chooses the> upanishads, and the upanishads alone in his example. His parampara (the> keeper of his views) does not hold that the "vedangas impart para vidya". > > > > Madhusudana Saraswati wrote somewhere in his commentary on the Gita that> when two objects are compared, and one is disparaged, it is often done> solely to eulogize the other object. When we say that the teachings of the> upanishads alone 'impart' brahma-vidya, the aim is to the raise the> upanishads to new dizzying heights, and not to lower any other subject.> However…..> > > > SS: The Vedas, Vedangas and Vedantas (the last includes the Upanishads) all> teach Brahmagyana. That is the ultimate aim of jyotish, as it is a> vedanga…can we be jyotisis at that level?> > > > The upanishads are useful only because they impart para vidya. Using it for> other purposes can be very, very dangerous. The knowledge of Jyotisha is> very much useful in daily life. It is also true that it's ultimate aim, like> the aim of all shastras is certainly to bring about brahmagyana.> > > > When Shankara discriminates between the karma-kanda and gyana-kanda of the> vedas, and accepts only the latter as attempting to point directly to> brahman, it seems silly to attempt to quote his words to convey that the> primary role of Jyotisha and the Upanishads are the same.> > > > SS: Shankara adds, that this para knowledge can only be achieved after> reading and understanding the scriptures, when you decide to take the> shelter of a guru and take vairagya.> > > > Yes, his parampara is very clear in saying that vividhiShaa sannyaasa is> required as a preparation for Brahman-realization. Let us use this as the> measuring stick for a moment. Is the percentage of Jyotishas who take to> sannyasa larger than the percentage of the general public who take to> sannyasa? Is the percentage of Jyotishas who take to sannyasa equal to or> larger than the percentage of Vedantins who take to sannyasa?> > > > GD commented on "how dangerous little knowledge can be"> > > > Indeed.> > > > ajit> ________________________________> > > |Om Tat Sat|> http://www.varahamihira > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2005 Report Share Posted March 21, 2005 Om Gurave Namah Dear Sarbani, You are right. I am also running the drig dasa of Virgo, which is my AL. Love, LakshmiSarbani Sarkar <sarbani wrote: Dear Partha and Sanjayji, I am attaching Lakshmi Ramesh and Ajit Krishnan's charts as well. I think they too are running Virgo drg. Let me see if I have Saaji's chart in the archives. Best regards, Sarbani Sanjay Rath [guruji] Monday, March 21, 2005 12:08 AMvarahamihira Subject: RE: |Sri Varaha| Mundakya on Para Jaya Jagannatha Dear Partha I should have known..you are the kind soul. Others kindly get the charts from Partha's mail. Let's see the particiapnts- 1. Sarbani Sarkar. Mina Lagna with Guru in 12th in Kumbha. Drig dasa is Kanya an earthy sign (aspecting the lagna) and antardasa is Mesha aspecting natal Jupiter as the transit Jupiter is in Virgo over drig dasa rasi. 2. Chandrasekhar Sharma. Dhanus Lagna with Guru in 11th house in Libra. Drig dasa is Kanya an earthy sign (aspecting the lagna) and antardasa is Libra with Guru in it! See that Sarbani and Chandrasekhar have an exactly similar drig dasa of 'argumentative Kanya' with the dasa rasi aspecting lagna i.e. they are *really* and honestly seeking answers. Can you see how the antardasa in both the cases relate to the sign occupied by Guru causing them to debate on Paraa Vidya and Aparaa Vidya instead of whether actresses are wearing shorter hems these days. Just see how the drig dasa is clearly causing the person to focus on spiritual knowledge. Theproblem is that they would not have read the Upanishad on their own and *Saaji* was the nimitta for them to read the Upanishad. See how Jupiter causes them to read the holy scriptures. 3. Let us examine the other Gurus invloved. Pathasarathy has Dhanus Lagna with Jupiter in Aries. He is under Cancer drig dasa with Saturn in it but the real clincher is the antardasa is ALSO of Aries with Jupiter in it!!! Thus in all three cases we have the gurus with antardasa directly linked to Jupiter searching for the knowledge of the Upanishads. Now come to the students. 3. Prabodh Venkhade. Mesha Lagna with Guru in Simha in 5th house. Drig dasa is Makara an earthy sign aspecting natal Guru but not lagna. Please note that Makara is the sign causing doubts but Guru aspecting the dasa rasi removes the doubts. The antardasa is Mina with the eclipse combination of Sun + Rahu and Saturn joining it. 'Saadhana' not required until the aspect of Jupier seems to have changed someting but everything cannot change until September when the antardasa changes. However the dasa rasi is aspected by Jupiter indicating the grace of Guru during the entire dasa period. 4. Saaji Don't have his chart With best wishes and warm regards, Sanjay Rath * * * Sri Jagannath Center® 15B Gangaram Hospital Road New Delhi 110060, India http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162 * * * Partha Sarathy [partvinu] Saturday, March 19, 2005 1:42 PMvarahamihira Subject: Re: |Sri Varaha| Mundakya on Para Dear SanjayjiI am attatching the files of five of the six people mentioned. Is theattatchment sufficient, or do i need to copy paste the rasi-navamsa?best wishesparthaOn Sat, 19 Mar 2005 12:18:33 +0530, SRath.com <guruji wrote:> Jaya Jagannatha> Dear Chandrasekhar ji et.al,> > It is a question of viewpoint. mano to mai ganga maa hun na mano to baheta> paani...should sum up the discussion. When I was a kid, my feet touched a> book and my mother scolded me and taught me to life the book and put it in> its place and then to touch the book, touch my head and to touch my heart> and say Vishnu, Vishnu, Vishnu. I was so young that I would say 'Bistu'! Go> to any publisher and you will find copies of the Bhagavat Gita lying on the> floor like vegetables. The most holy Rig Veda which finds a place a the> alter is not given any more respect. For them it is just another book after> all the Rig Veda and Bhagavat Gita are just another book(s). > > What is the real Veda is the akshara in them or the syllables which placed> in certain meters symbolise God Himself in His various manifestations. For> example, there are 10 mandalas in the Rig Veda (anything to do with the> digital system and the navagraha + lagna? see how my mind thinks). There are> various metre's called chhanda and these symbolise the potential of the Lord> for action of which primary are the seven metres gayatri etc. Gayatri has> the creative aspect to it. > > The *real* book or vidya is hidden in the akshara that makes thoses words> and those words that makes those riks or metre's. The *unreal* vidya is the> one that is manifested materially as a white paper with black ink markings> symbolisingthe akshara. Languages vary and the markings will change from one> language to another that the book is published in. So the Vedas, Vedangas,> Upanishads etc are all Aparavidya when viewed either from the publishers> perspective or from the perspective of the material world but the same are> Paraa Vidya when viewed from the perspective of a Sadhaka (one who is making> the RIGHT EFFORT) for the Paraa Vidya (supreme knowledge that defines the> Lord).> > I will illustrate my point (as is my habit).> Illustration-1: Devata Vishnu Action: Upholding Dharma> ÇIi[ pda iv c³me iv:[ugaeRpa Ada_y>, Atae xmaRi[ xaryn!.> tréëi padä vi cakrame viñëurgopä adäbhyaù | ato dharmäëi dhärayan ||> This rik of the Rig Veda can be interpreted in many ways. > > One from the spiritual view, we see that Vishnu has defined Dharma by> placing his holy feet (12th house-see Ista devata reference) in the chakra.> These feet are placed in 'Bhu', Bhuva and Svah lokas. Thus we get the first> definition of dharma as given by Brihaspati - 'om bhur bhuva svah'. This is> related to the Vamana avatar and hence Parasara rightly attributes the> highest manfestation of Jupiter as the Vishnu avatara - Sri Vaamana. (there> is more to this name)> > Two from the phenomenal view where the action is cognizible, we find that> the first foot on Bhu loka or the earth and second foot on the Bhuva or the> solar system creates the tropical zodiac where all terrestrial phenomena> happen due to the interation between these two lokas. The zodiac for this> has been explained by Parasara in the Vishnu Purana as the Tropical zodiac> (call it Vishnu Chakra). The first foot on Bhuloka and the third foot on> Svah loka destroys ahamkara (like Raja Bali) and the interaction between> these two feet of the lord causes the Svahloka (stars in the galaxy) to> influence life on Bhuloka (earth plane). This interactive chart is the> Sidereal (star based) Zodiac. This is Jyotisa shastra and the vedanga.> > Three from the Paraa Vidya perspective, it teaches that the three most holy> aspects of Vishnu are 'A' 'U' and 'M' which represent the creation,> preservation and dissolution as the primary activity of the lord of all> beings. The esoterc teaching here is of the sookshma pranava - AUM. The word> padam also means steps in a process and indicates that everything that is> being created shall be sustained and then dissolved. The most hidden meaning> is learning detatchment from these processes as they are sure to happen> around everybody and everything.> > Four from the phonological perspective, the metre has each feet consisting> of 8 akshara each that combine to form the tri-pada metre called Gayatri.> Hence Krishna says that among the metres I am gayatri (Bhagavat Gita). > > Five from the kalachakra perspective, the two chakras are derived from the> interaction between (1) the bhuloka and bhuva loka and (2) bhuloka and svah> loka. These chakras or zodiacs have 27 nakshatra and 12 signs which are> physically identifiable. Yet we find that the moon takes slightly more than> 27 days to cover the sidereal zodiac and this technically requires the> creation of another nakshatra. Since this nakshatra cannot be physically> identified it is a intercalary nakshatra. The feet of Vishnu being on the> three lokas is helping us to identify these three lokas as physically> independant entities, yet the body of Vishnu which is not visible connects> these two feet of Vishnu and consequently connects the lokas. This invisible> body of Vishnu is identified as the last intercalary invisible nakshatra> called 'Abhijit'. This brings us to yet another definition and that is of> Abhijit and that it is 'Hari-vamsa' or the family of Hari or Vishnu and this> nakshatra interconnects the two chakras and the three worlds (physically> manifested planes of 1) earth, 2) solar system and 3) the galaxies of the> universe).> > Every Rik of the Rig Veda can be interpreted in so many ways. I am aware of> a nmber of other ways but I think I have made the point that the knowledge> (vidya) is both Paraa and Aparaa depending on the viewpoint or the> perspective of the reader. > > There are various other issues that yourself, Sarbani, Saaji, Ajit, Partha> etc have raised. I am happy that such an enlightened discusson has taken> place in Varahamihira. I shall not like to comment on the other issues as I> know tha you all like each other very much and in every family food tastes> differ and we have to learn to cook for the whole family...don't want anyone> starving.> > Finally exodus is no solution to the vexed questions of Jyotish and> Spirituality. SJC has been formed for 'Jyotish and Spirituality' and this> thread cannot break just as the Abhijit nakshatra although not visible is> the most vital nakshatra, so also the spiritual aspect of Jyotish though not> visible is the soul of the subject. It is my fault for raising the topic on> Atmakaraka which has led to all this soul searching and some poison is bound> to churn up....it all depends on the placement of AK in our own charts!!! I> think it will be worthwhile to check the Drig dasa of the main participants> of this discussion.> > Can some kind soul please post the chart of Saaji, Prabodh, Sarbani,> Chandrasekhar, Ajit, Partha and last but not least (this scribe!!)> > With best wishes and warm regards,> Sanjay Rath> * * *> Sri Jagannath Center®> 15B Gangaram Hospital Road > New Delhi 110060, India> http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162> * * *> > > ________________________________> Chandrashekhar [chandrashekhar46] > Friday, March 18, 2005 3:34 AM> varahamihira > Re: |Sri Varaha| Mundakya on Para> > Dear Ajit,> You are right. This is what I have been trying to convey, I hope you> succeed.> Chandrashekhar.> > Ajit Krishnan wrote: > <!--[if mso 9]--> <!--[endif]--> > > > .. hamsasso.aham ..> > > > Dear Sarbani and others,> > > > SS: "I decided to give you Shankara's commentary on this, as he is more> hardhitting than I can be."> > > > Just as a bad reading of the upanishads can be misleading, a bad reading of> Shankara's commentary can be equally misleading. > > > > SS: Shankara's answer to this is, the definition of vidya in this instance> is to realize. No doubt the Vedas, Vedangas and the Upanishads impart> Para Vidya> > > > Shankara teaches that the primary purpose of vedanta is to teach the> bramha-vidya which cannot be taught. It is in this context that his> commentary must be read. The hard hitting Shankara says "Para vidya is that> knowledge of the impreishable which is imparted only by the Upanishads, and> not merely the assemblage of words found in the Upanishads". He chooses the> upanishads, and the upanishads alone in his example. His parampara (the> keeper of his views) does not hold that the "vedangas impart para vidya". > > > > Madhusudana Saraswati wrote somewhere in his commentary on the Gita that> when two objects are compared, and one is disparaged, it is often done> solely to eulogize the other object. When we say that the teachings of the> upanishads alone 'impart' brahma-vidya, the aim is to the raise the> upanishads to new dizzying heights, and not to lower any other subject.> However…..> > > > SS: The Vedas, Vedangas and Vedantas (the last includes the Upanishads) all> teach Brahmagyana. That is the ultimate aim of jyotish, as it is a> vedanga…can we be jyotisis at that level?> > > > The upanishads are useful only because they impart para vidya. Using it for> other purposes can be very, very dangerous. The knowledge of Jyotisha is> very much useful in daily life. It is also true that it's ultimate aim, like> the aim of all shastras is certainly to bring about brahmagyana.> > > > When Shankara discriminates between the karma-kanda and gyana-kanda of the> vedas, and accepts only the latter as attempting to point directly to> brahman, it seems silly to attempt to quote his words to convey that the> primary role of Jyotisha and the Upanishads are the same.> > > > SS: Shankara adds, that this para knowledge can only be achieved after> reading and understanding the scriptures, when you decide to take the> shelter of a guru and take vairagya.> > > > Yes, his parampara is very clear in saying that vividhiShaa sannyaasa is> required as a preparation for Brahman-realization. Let us use this as the> measuring stick for a moment. Is the percentage of Jyotishas who take to> sannyasa larger than the percentage of the general public who take to> sannyasa? Is the percentage of Jyotishas who take to sannyasa equal to or> larger than the percentage of Vedantins who take to sannyasa?> > > > GD commented on "how dangerous little knowledge can be"> > > > Indeed.> > > > ajit> ________________________________> > > |Om Tat Sat|> http://www.varahamihira > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2005 Report Share Posted March 21, 2005 ... hamsasso.aham .. Dear paramaguru, This condition alone cannot suffice. We started off with charts with earthy dasa rasis where the dasa rasi was associated with natal lagna, and the antardasa rasi was associated with natal guru, and then looked at charts where natal guru was associated the dasa rasi. In your own case, dasa rasi is clearly associated with both lagna and natal Jupiter. your sishya, ajit Sanjay Rath [guruji] Monday, March 21, 2005 12:13 AM varahamihira RE: |Sri Varaha| Mundakya on Para Jaya Jagannatha Dear Ajit YOU TOO ARE IN KANYA Drig dasa....see how it works. With best wishes and warm regards, Sanjay Rath * * * Sri Jagannath Center® 15B Gangaram Hospital Road New Delhi 110060, India http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162 * * * Ajit Krishnan [astro] Monday, March 21, 2005 4:07 AM varahamihira RE: |Sri Varaha| Mundakya on Para ... hamsasso.aham .. Dear Guru, I believe the other charts have been posted to the list in the last 2 days. ajit Sanjay Rath [guruji] Friday, March 18, 2005 10:49 PM … Can some kind soul please post the chart of Saaji, Prabodh, Sarbani, Chandrasekhar, Ajit, Partha and last but not least (this scribe!!) |Om Tat Sat| http://www.varahamihira |Om Tat Sat| http://www.varahamihira Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2005 Report Share Posted March 21, 2005 Dear Sanjay, Does not the drig dasha begin from 9th house and signs aspected by it, then 10th house and signs aspected by it followed by 11th house and signs aspected by it? The copy of BPHS I have says this. If this is correct, Virgo (10th house Rasi) would be the 5th dasha in my chart, and would not be operating at this time. Again is there a difference in the way drigdasha period is calculated? Are they treated as Sthir or Chara dasha in Parampara? Chandrashekhar. Sanjay Rath wrote: Jaya Jagannatha Dear Partha I should have known..you are the kind soul. Others kindly get the charts from Partha's mail. Let's see the particiapnts- 1. Sarbani Sarkar. Mina Lagna with Guru in 12th in Kumbha. Drig dasa is Kanya an earthy sign (aspecting the lagna) and antardasa is Mesha aspecting natal Jupiter as the transit Jupiter is in Virgo over drig dasa rasi. 2. Chandrasekhar Sharma. Dhanus Lagna with Guru in 11th house in Libra. Drig dasa is Kanya an earthy sign (aspecting the lagna) and antardasa is Libra with Guru in it! See that Sarbani and Chandrasekhar have an exactly similar drig dasa of 'argumentative Kanya' with the dasa rasi aspecting lagna i.e. they are *really* and honestly seeking answers. Can you see how the antardasa in both the cases relate to the sign occupied by Guru causing them to debate on Paraa Vidya and Aparaa Vidya instead of whether actresses are wearing shorter hems these days. Just see how the drig dasa is clearly causing the person to focus on spiritual knowledge. Theproblem is that they would not have read the Upanishad on their own and *Saaji* was the nimitta for them to read the Upanishad. See how Jupiter causes them to read the holy scriptures. 3. Let us examine the other Gurus invloved. Pathasarathy has Dhanus Lagna with Jupiter in Aries. He is under Cancer drig dasa with Saturn in it but the real clincher is the antardasa is ALSO of Aries with Jupiter in it!!! Thus in all three cases we have the gurus with antardasa directly linked to Jupiter searching for the knowledge of the Upanishads. Now come to the students. 3. Prabodh Venkhade. Mesha Lagna with Guru in Simha in 5th house. Drig dasa is Makara an earthy sign aspecting natal Guru but not lagna. Please note that Makara is the sign causing doubts but Guru aspecting the dasa rasi removes the doubts. The antardasa is Mina with the eclipse combination of Sun + Rahu and Saturn joining it. 'Saadhana' not required until the aspect of Jupier seems to have changed someting but everything cannot change until September when the antardasa changes. However the dasa rasi is aspected by Jupiter indicating the grace of Guru during the entire dasa period. 4. Saaji Don't have his chart With best wishes and warm regards, Sanjay Rath * * * Sri Jagannath Center® 15B Gangaram Hospital Road New Delhi 110060, India http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162 * * * Partha Sarathy [partvinu] Saturday, March 19, 2005 1:42 PM varahamihira Re: |Sri Varaha| Mundakya on Para Dear Sanjayji I am attatching the files of five of the six people mentioned. Is the attatchment sufficient, or do i need to copy paste the rasi-navamsa? best wishes partha On Sat, 19 Mar 2005 12:18:33 +0530, SRath.com <guruji wrote: > Jaya Jagannatha > Dear Chandrasekhar ji et.al, > > It is a question of viewpoint. mano to mai ganga maa hun na mano to baheta > paani...should sum up the discussion. When I was a kid, my feet touched a > book and my mother scolded me and taught me to life the book and put it in > its place and then to touch the book, touch my head and to touch my heart > and say Vishnu, Vishnu, Vishnu. I was so young that I would say 'Bistu'! Go > to any publisher and you will find copies of the Bhagavat Gita lying on the > floor like vegetables. The most holy Rig Veda which finds a place a the > alter is not given any more respect. For them it is just another book after > all the Rig Veda and Bhagavat Gita are just another book(s). > > What is the real Veda is the akshara in them or the syllables which placed > in certain meters symbolise God Himself in His various manifestations. For > example, there are 10 mandalas in the Rig Veda (anything to do with the > digital system and the navagraha + lagna? see how my mind thinks). There are > various metre's called chhanda and these symbolise the potential of the Lord > for action of which primary are the seven metres gayatri etc. Gayatri has > the creative aspect to it. > > The *real* book or vidya is hidden in the akshara that makes thoses words > and those words that makes those riks or metre's. The *unreal* vidya is the > one that is manifested materially as a white paper with black ink markings > symbolisingthe akshara. Languages vary and the markings will change from one > language to another that the book is published in. So the Vedas, Vedangas, > Upanishads etc are all Aparavidya when viewed either from the publishers > perspective or from the perspective of the material world but the same are > Paraa Vidya when viewed from the perspective of a Sadhaka (one who is making > the RIGHT EFFORT) for the Paraa Vidya (supreme knowledge that defines the > Lord). > > I will illustrate my point (as is my habit). > Illustration-1: Devata Vishnu Action: Upholding Dharma > ÇIi[ pda iv c³me iv:[ugaeRpa Ada_y>, Atae xmaRi[ xaryn!. > tréëi padä vi cakrame viñëurgopä adäbhyaù | ato dharmäëi dhärayan || > This rik of the Rig Veda can be interpreted in many ways. > > One from the spiritual view, we see that Vishnu has defined Dharma by > placing his holy feet (12th house-see Ista devata reference) in the chakra. > These feet are placed in 'Bhu', Bhuva and Svah lokas. Thus we get the first > definition of dharma as given by Brihaspati - 'om bhur bhuva svah'. This is > related to the Vamana avatar and hence Parasara rightly attributes the > highest manfestation of Jupiter as the Vishnu avatara - Sri Vaamana. (there > is more to this name) > > Two from the phenomenal view where the action is cognizible, we find that > the first foot on Bhu loka or the earth and second foot on the Bhuva or the > solar system creates the tropical zodiac where all terrestrial phenomena > happen due to the interation between these two lokas. The zodiac for this > has been explained by Parasara in the Vishnu Purana as the Tropical zodiac > (call it Vishnu Chakra). The first foot on Bhuloka and the third foot on > Svah loka destroys ahamkara (like Raja Bali) and the interaction between > these two feet of the lord causes the Svahloka (stars in the galaxy) to > influence life on Bhuloka (earth plane). This interactive chart is the > Sidereal (star based) Zodiac. This is Jyotisa shastra and the vedanga. > > Three from the Paraa Vidya perspective, it teaches that the three most holy > aspects of Vishnu are 'A' 'U' and 'M' which represent the creation, > preservation and dissolution as the primary activity of the lord of all > beings. The esoterc teaching here is of the sookshma pranava - AUM. The word > padam also means steps in a process and indicates that everything that is > being created shall be sustained and then dissolved. The most hidden meaning > is learning detatchment from these processes as they are sure to happen > around everybody and everything. > > Four from the phonological perspective, the metre has each feet consisting > of 8 akshara each that combine to form the tri-pada metre called Gayatri. > Hence Krishna says that among the metres I am gayatri (Bhagavat Gita). > > Five from the kalachakra perspective, the two chakras are derived from the > interaction between (1) the bhuloka and bhuva loka and (2) bhuloka and svah > loka. These chakras or zodiacs have 27 nakshatra and 12 signs which are > physically identifiable. Yet we find that the moon takes slightly more than > 27 days to cover the sidereal zodiac and this technically requires the > creation of another nakshatra. Since this nakshatra cannot be physically > identified it is a intercalary nakshatra. The feet of Vishnu being on the > three lokas is helping us to identify these three lokas as physically > independant entities, yet the body of Vishnu which is not visible connects > these two feet of Vishnu and consequently connects the lokas. This invisible > body of Vishnu is identified as the last intercalary invisible nakshatra > called 'Abhijit'. This brings us to yet another definition and that is of > Abhijit and that it is 'Hari-vamsa' or the family of Hari or Vishnu and this > nakshatra interconnects the two chakras and the three worlds (physically > manifested planes of 1) earth, 2) solar system and 3) the galaxies of the > universe). > > Every Rik of the Rig Veda can be interpreted in so many ways. I am aware of > a nmber of other ways but I think I have made the point that the knowledge > (vidya) is both Paraa and Aparaa depending on the viewpoint or the > perspective of the reader. > > There are various other issues that yourself, Sarbani, Saaji, Ajit, Partha > etc have raised. I am happy that such an enlightened discusson has taken > place in Varahamihira. I shall not like to comment on the other issues as I > know tha you all like each other very much and in every family food tastes > differ and we have to learn to cook for the whole family...don't want anyone > starving. > > Finally exodus is no solution to the vexed questions of Jyotish and > Spirituality. SJC has been formed for 'Jyotish and Spirituality' and this > thread cannot break just as the Abhijit nakshatra although not visible is > the most vital nakshatra, so also the spiritual aspect of Jyotish though not > visible is the soul of the subject. It is my fault for raising the topic on > Atmakaraka which has led to all this soul searching and some poison is bound > to churn up....it all depends on the placement of AK in our own charts!!! I > think it will be worthwhile to check the Drig dasa of the main participants > of this discussion. > > Can some kind soul please post the chart of Saaji, Prabodh, Sarbani, > Chandrasekhar, Ajit, Partha and last but not least (this scribe!!) > > With best wishes and warm regards, > Sanjay Rath > * * * > Sri Jagannath Center® > 15B Gangaram Hospital Road > New Delhi 110060, India > http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162 > * * * > > > ________________________________ > Chandrashekhar [chandrashekhar46] > Friday, March 18, 2005 3:34 AM > varahamihira > Re: |Sri Varaha| Mundakya on Para > > Dear Ajit, > You are right. This is what I have been trying to convey, I hope you > succeed. > Chandrashekhar. > > Ajit Krishnan wrote: > <!--[if mso 9]--> <!--[endif]--> > > > .. hamsasso.aham .. > > > > Dear Sarbani and others, > > > > SS: "I decided to give you Shankara's commentary on this, as he is more > hardhitting than I can be." > > > > Just as a bad reading of the upanishads can be misleading, a bad reading of > Shankara's commentary can be equally misleading. > > > > SS: Shankara's answer to this is, the definition of vidya in this instance > is to realize. No doubt the Vedas, Vedangas and the Upanishads impart > Para Vidya > > > > Shankara teaches that the primary purpose of vedanta is to teach the > bramha-vidya which cannot be taught. It is in this context that his > commentary must be read. The hard hitting Shankara says "Para vidya is that > knowledge of the impreishable which is imparted only by the Upanishads, and > not merely the assemblage of words found in the Upanishads". He chooses the > upanishads, and the upanishads alone in his example. His parampara (the > keeper of his views) does not hold that the "vedangas impart para vidya". > > > > Madhusudana Saraswati wrote somewhere in his commentary on the Gita that > when two objects are compared, and one is disparaged, it is often done > solely to eulogize the other object. When we say that the teachings of the > upanishads alone 'impart' brahma-vidya, the aim is to the raise the > upanishads to new dizzying heights, and not to lower any other subject. > However….. > > > > SS: The Vedas, Vedangas and Vedantas (the last includes the Upanishads) all > teach Brahmagyana. That is the ultimate aim of jyotish, as it is a > vedanga…can we be jyotisis at that level? > > > > The upanishads are useful only because they impart para vidya. Using it for > other purposes can be very, very dangerous. The knowledge of Jyotisha is > very much useful in daily life. It is also true that it's ultimate aim, like > the aim of all shastras is certainly to bring about brahmagyana. > > > > When Shankara discriminates between the karma-kanda and gyana-kanda of the > vedas, and accepts only the latter as attempting to point directly to > brahman, it seems silly to attempt to quote his words to convey that the > primary role of Jyotisha and the Upanishads are the same. > > > > SS: Shankara adds, that this para knowledge can only be achieved after > reading and understanding the scriptures, when you decide to take the > shelter of a guru and take vairagya. > > > > Yes, his parampara is very clear in saying that vividhiShaa sannyaasa is > required as a preparation for Brahman-realization. Let us use this as the > measuring stick for a moment. Is the percentage of Jyotishas who take to > sannyasa larger than the percentage of the general public who take to > sannyasa? Is the percentage of Jyotishas who take to sannyasa equal to or > larger than the percentage of Vedantins who take to sannyasa? > > > > GD commented on "how dangerous little knowledge can be" > > > > Indeed. > > > > ajit > ________________________________ > > > |Om Tat Sat| > http://www.varahamihira > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2005 Report Share Posted March 21, 2005 J.K.Da, I think SJCERC were to create some 40 CD.s for learning Sanskrit for about Rs.1000/- per set. I think Dewavrat was to do this. Why not write to him and get a set for SJC Mumbai so that those not comfortable with Sanskrit benefit? Regards, Chandrashekhar. jk.dasgupta wrote: Dear Chandrashekharji, That is the most sadest part. I know that most Indian languages are based on sanskrit and if one is good in grammar of any Indian language - it is not difficult for him to understand sanskrit. But I am not good in grammar of any Indian language-not even bengali. Best regards jk ----- Original Message ----- Chandrashekhar To: varahamihira Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 03:00 Subject: Re: |Sri Varaha| Mundakya on Para Dear J. K. Da, You are so modest. Sanskrit has undergone many changes through passage of time and many other than the Grammar of Panini were used in times gone by. Even then most of Indian languages being rooted in Sanskrit, one can understand the intent of Sanskrit shlokas, in most instances. Regards, Chandrashekhar. jk.dasgupta wrote: Yes Chandrashekharji. I am well aware of my weakness of not understanding sanskrit. So I always look for logical explanatory comentries. Best regards jk ----- Original Message ----- Chandrashekhar To: varahamihira Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2005 02:39 Subject: Re: |Sri Varaha| Mundakya on Para Dear J.K. Da, You are making a profound statement and yet claim to be a slow learner. It is rightly said " Vidya Vinayen Shobhate" Chandrashekhar. jk.dasgupta wrote: Dear all, My spiritual sikhsa guru Swami Chinmayanandaji used to tell that spirituality is a subject by itself- like medical or engineering. By worshiping medical books everyday-one can never become a doctor. Like that just worshiping the scriptures everyday or mugging up the slokas therin one can never become knowledgeable. He used to always tell that scriptures are to be studied by sitting at the feet of guru - as sanskrit is a difficult and tricky language. Simple literal meaning of one sanskrit word may be misleading and may mean so many things. A guru has to explain what the sloka actually means. He also used to warn always not to pick up one sloka from a scripture and jump to interpret it. The slokas are to be studied in totality. That is the reason the slokas of Scriptures have often been misinterpreted. Swamiji used to teach that Brahma vidya or para vidya is beyond words. It is beyond the perception of awaken state of human being. Therefore the teacher in the scripures always uses examples to explain the truth to the nearest possible fineness and therefore all the scriptures follow a certain logic to arive at a conclusion. After that, following that direction shown by guru & realising the truth is the job of the student. Realising the truth is only possible in deep meditative stage and once the truth is realised all arguments end there. (and I am far far from it :-), just repeating what Swamiji used to tell) Till the truth is such realised - every vidya is apara and the argument continues. Such arguments among scholars have taken place in past - are taking place in present and will take place in future also. That is the process of evaluation. Whatever have been discussed in this chain were simply fantastic. We are all human being.. so it is natural for us to get imotional at certain point. In my openion those imotional portions should not be taken seriously. Imotions will come and go - but the windows opened towards the knowledge during the process will always remain opened. Personally I am not at all knowledgeable in sanskrit - so always look for the explanatory comentries of slokas and the logic behind the explanations. That is why I am a very slow learner. regards and with best wishes jk ----- Original Message ----- lakshmi ramesh To: varahamihira Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 22:49 Subject: RE: |Sri Varaha| Mundakya on Para Om Gurave Namah Dear Ajit, Well, I was certainly not the one who talked about swarupa-gynaana and vritti-gynaana.... Jokes apart, you are absolutely right...its high time we stop concentrating on words and start concentrating on feelings. Your posts are always wonderful, Ajit. Please keep writing more often. Regards, Lakshmi Ajit Krishnan <astro wrote: ... hamsasso.aham .. Dear Lakshmi, We started with the Mundaka upanishad which teaches that this para vidya is beyond names, but are back to insisting upon names, words and dictionaries. Call this gyana Shiva, or call him Vishnu. Have faith, surrender to him, and be happy. ajit lakshmi ramesh [b_lakshmi_ramesh] Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 3:35 AM varahamihira Subject: RE: |Sri Varaha| Mundakya on Para Om Gurave Namah Namaste Ajit, Thaks for this excellent mail. However, I want to know the "name" of the gynana by which a spider, an elephant, a snake, a hunter realized God. The spider spun the web for sheltering the idol of Shiva, the elephant bathed Him with water brought in its trunk, the snake adorned Him with naga maNis and the hunter offered the meat of animals he killed as naivedyam. They were not versed in vedas or upanishads...yet, they realized God by serving Him in their own little, natural ways. In their dictionary probably para vidya consisted of two simple words...belief and surrender. And I think they are right. Is "Ishaanah sarva vidyaanaam" incorrect? Regards, Lakshmi |Om Tat Sat| http://www.varahamihira Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2005 Report Share Posted March 22, 2005 Jaya Jagannatha Dear Ajit Ok this condition should not alone suffice but then the participation level will depend on whether the Lagna is also aspected by the Drig dasa. The core participants had the condition fulfilled. Jupiter in dasa rasi gave the *topic* for the discussion and the debate for the Gurus. Sisyas has Guru associated with the dasa or antardasa showing their degree of inquiry. They raised the questios and the gurus who has the Jup in dasa rasi answered it. So the linking factor was the Guru related drig dasa of the sisya to ask the question and the guru transit over drig dasa for the people who answered. Level of articipation and application of intellect is seen from association with lagna as the intellect has to get *enlightened* in the proces of this exchange. I was also involved but my dasa is Pisces and Guru is aspecting the dasa rasi, not transiting it. Instead my dasa rasi is being transited by the Sun and I am more concerned about Jyotish and spirituality rather than pure spirituality (see my mails for a double confirmation of this), and it was I who got the discssion back to Jyotish. Now go into the reactions of the people very honestly ans try to find out why they left etc. See each antardasa as the antardasa is like the Moon and this is what shall guide the mind. With best wishes and warm regards, Sanjay Rath * * * Sri Jagannath Center® 15B Gangaram Hospital Road New Delhi 110060, India http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162 * * * Ajit Krishnan [astro] Monday, March 21, 2005 9:01 PMvarahamihira Subject: RE: |Sri Varaha| Mundakya on Para ... hamsasso.aham .. Dear paramaguru, This condition alone cannot suffice. We started off with charts with earthy dasa rasis where the dasa rasi was associated with natal lagna, and the antardasa rasi was associated with natal guru, and then looked at charts where natal guru was associated the dasa rasi. In your own case, dasa rasi is clearly associated with both lagna and natal Jupiter. your sishya, ajit Sanjay Rath [guruji] Monday, March 21, 2005 12:13 AMvarahamihira Subject: RE: |Sri Varaha| Mundakya on Para Jaya Jagannatha Dear Ajit YOU TOO ARE IN KANYA Drig dasa....see how it works. With best wishes and warm regards, Sanjay Rath * * * Sri Jagannath Center® 15B Gangaram Hospital Road New Delhi 110060, India http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162 * * * Ajit Krishnan [astro] Monday, March 21, 2005 4:07 AMvarahamihira Subject: RE: |Sri Varaha| Mundakya on Para ... hamsasso.aham .. Dear Guru, I believe the other charts have been posted to the list in the last 2 days. ajit Sanjay Rath [guruji] Friday, March 18, 2005 10:49 PM … Can some kind soul please post the chart of Saaji, Prabodh, Sarbani, Chandrasekhar, Ajit, Partha and last but not least (this scribe!!) |Om Tat Sat|http://www.varahamihira |Om Tat Sat|http://www.varahamihira |Om Tat Sat|http://www.varahamihira Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2005 Report Share Posted March 22, 2005 Jaya Jagannatha Dear Chandrasekharji For dual signs this order cannot happen. Let us say Dhanus lagna Drig dasa were to be reckoned. The first dasa would be of Leo and signs aspecting are Libra, Capricorn and Aries, Then Virgo dasa and signs aspecting are Pisces, Sagg and Gemini Then Libra and signs aspecting ar Leo, Taurus and Aquarius. Now in the above scheme we have Libra and Leo repeating twice whereas Cancer and Scrpio vanish from the scheme. This is not to be and instead for dual signs start from the 9th house and take the subsequent in the reverse i.e. 9th, 8th and 7th and their aspecting signs. The first dasa is Leo, aspected by Libra, Capricorn and Aries, Second dasa is Cancer aspected by Scorpio, Aquarius and Taurus Third dasa is Gemini aspected by Pisces, Sagg and Virgo In this manner the drig dasas cover the signs for dual lagna. These small ints from the tradition have made Jaimini so interesting else we would have been breaking our head trying to figure out the sequence. Another thing - there is a deep philosophy behind this reversal for dual signs and you will appreciate the A-U-M factor in the three types of signs. With best wishes and warm regards, Sanjay Rath * * * Sri Jagannath Center® 15B Gangaram Hospital Road New Delhi 110060, India http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162 * * * Chandrashekhar [chandrashekhar46] Tuesday, March 22, 2005 1:46 AMvarahamihira Subject: Re: |Sri Varaha| Mundakya on Para Dear Sanjay,Does not the drig dasha begin from 9th house and signs aspected by it, then 10th house and signs aspected by it followed by 11th house and signs aspected by it? The copy of BPHS I have says this. If this is correct, Virgo (10th house Rasi) would be the 5th dasha in my chart, and would not be operating at this time. Again is there a difference in the way drigdasha period is calculated? Are they treated as Sthir or Chara dasha in Parampara?Chandrashekhar.Sanjay Rath wrote: Jaya Jagannatha Dear Partha I should have known..you are the kind soul. Others kindly get the charts from Partha's mail. Let's see the particiapnts- 1. Sarbani Sarkar. Mina Lagna with Guru in 12th in Kumbha. Drig dasa is Kanya an earthy sign (aspecting the lagna) and antardasa is Mesha aspecting natal Jupiter as the transit Jupiter is in Virgo over drig dasa rasi. 2. Chandrasekhar Sharma. Dhanus Lagna with Guru in 11th house in Libra. Drig dasa is Kanya an earthy sign (aspecting the lagna) and antardasa is Libra with Guru in it! See that Sarbani and Chandrasekhar have an exactly similar drig dasa of 'argumentative Kanya' with the dasa rasi aspecting lagna i.e. they are *really* and honestly seeking answers. Can you see how the antardasa in both the cases relate to the sign occupied by Guru causing them to debate on Paraa Vidya and Aparaa Vidya instead of whether actresses are wearing shorter hems these days. Just see how the drig dasa is clearly causing the person to focus on spiritual knowledge. Theproblem is that they would not have read the Upanishad on their own and *Saaji* was the nimitta for them to read the Upanishad. See how Jupiter causes them to read the holy scriptures. 3. Let us examine the other Gurus invloved. Pathasarathy has Dhanus Lagna with Jupiter in Aries. He is under Cancer drig dasa with Saturn in it but the real clincher is the antardasa is ALSO of Aries with Jupiter in it!!! Thus in all three cases we have the gurus with antardasa directly linked to Jupiter searching for the knowledge of the Upanishads. Now come to the students. 3. Prabodh Venkhade. Mesha Lagna with Guru in Simha in 5th house. Drig dasa is Makara an earthy sign aspecting natal Guru but not lagna. Please note that Makara is the sign causing doubts but Guru aspecting the dasa rasi removes the doubts. The antardasa is Mina with the eclipse combination of Sun + Rahu and Saturn joining it. 'Saadhana' not required until the aspect of Jupier seems to have changed someting but everything cannot change until September when the antardasa changes. However the dasa rasi is aspected by Jupiter indicating the grace of Guru during the entire dasa period. 4. Saaji Don't have his chart With best wishes and warm regards, Sanjay Rath * * * Sri Jagannath Center® 15B Gangaram Hospital Road New Delhi 110060, India http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162 * * * Partha Sarathy [partvinu] Saturday, March 19, 2005 1:42 PMvarahamihira Subject: Re: |Sri Varaha| Mundakya on ParaDear SanjayjiI am attatching the files of five of the six people mentioned. Is theattatchment sufficient, or do i need to copy paste the rasi-navamsa?best wishesparthaOn Sat, 19 Mar 2005 12:18:33 +0530, SRath.com <guruji wrote:> Jaya Jagannatha> Dear Chandrasekhar ji et.al,> > It is a question of viewpoint. mano to mai ganga maa hun na mano to baheta> paani...should sum up the discussion. When I was a kid, my feet touched a> book and my mother scolded me and taught me to life the book and put it in> its place and then to touch the book, touch my head and to touch my heart> and say Vishnu, Vishnu, Vishnu. I was so young that I would say 'Bistu'! Go> to any publisher and you will find copies of the Bhagavat Gita lying on the> floor like vegetables. The most holy Rig Veda which finds a place a the> alter is not given any more respect. For them it is just another book after> all the Rig Veda and Bhagavat Gita are just another book(s). > > What is the real Veda is the akshara in them or the syllables which placed> in certain meters symbolise God Himself in His various manifestations. For> example, there are 10 mandalas in the Rig Veda (anything to do with the> digital system and the navagraha + lagna? see how my mind thinks). There are> various metre's called chhanda and these symbolise the potential of the Lord> for action of which primary are the seven metres gayatri etc. Gayatri has> the creative aspect to it. > > The *real* book or vidya is hidden in the akshara that makes thoses words> and those words that makes those riks or metre's. The *unreal* vidya is the> one that is manifested materially as a white paper with black ink markings> symbolisingthe akshara. Languages vary and the markings will change from one> language to another that the book is published in. So the Vedas, Vedangas,> Upanishads etc are all Aparavidya when viewed either from the publishers> perspective or from the perspective of the material world but the same are> Paraa Vidya when viewed from the perspective of a Sadhaka (one who is making> the RIGHT EFFORT) for the Paraa Vidya (supreme knowledge that defines the> Lord).> > I will illustrate my point (as is my habit).> Illustration-1: Devata Vishnu Action: Upholding Dharma> ÇIi[ pda iv c³me iv:[ugaeRpa Ada_y>, Atae xmaRi[ xaryn!.> tréëi padä vi cakrame viñëurgopä adäbhyaù | ato dharmäëi dhärayan ||> This rik of the Rig Veda can be interpreted in many ways. > > One from the spiritual view, we see that Vishnu has defined Dharma by> placing his holy feet (12th house-see Ista devata reference) in the chakra.> These feet are placed in 'Bhu', Bhuva and Svah lokas. Thus we get the first> definition of dharma as given by Brihaspati - 'om bhur bhuva svah'. This is> related to the Vamana avatar and hence Parasara rightly attributes the> highest manfestation of Jupiter as the Vishnu avatara - Sri Vaamana. (there> is more to this name)> > Two from the phenomenal view where the action is cognizible, we find that> the first foot on Bhu loka or the earth and second foot on the Bhuva or the> solar system creates the tropical zodiac where all terrestrial phenomena> happen due to the interation between these two lokas. The zodiac for this> has been explained by Parasara in the Vishnu Purana as the Tropical zodiac> (call it Vishnu Chakra). The first foot on Bhuloka and the third foot on> Svah loka destroys ahamkara (like Raja Bali) and the interaction between> these two feet of the lord causes the Svahloka (stars in the galaxy) to> influence life on Bhuloka (earth plane). This interactive chart is the> Sidereal (star based) Zodiac. This is Jyotisa shastra and the vedanga.> > Three from the Paraa Vidya perspective, it teaches that the three most holy> aspects of Vishnu are 'A' 'U' and 'M' which represent the creation,> preservation and dissolution as the primary activity of the lord of all> beings. The esoterc teaching here is of the sookshma pranava - AUM. The word> padam also means steps in a process and indicates that everything that is> being created shall be sustained and then dissolved. The most hidden meaning> is learning detatchment from these processes as they are sure to happen> around everybody and everything.> > Four from the phonological perspective, the metre has each feet consisting> of 8 akshara each that combine to form the tri-pada metre called Gayatri.> Hence Krishna says that among the metres I am gayatri (Bhagavat Gita). > > Five from the kalachakra perspective, the two chakras are derived from the> interaction between (1) the bhuloka and bhuva loka and (2) bhuloka and svah> loka. These chakras or zodiacs have 27 nakshatra and 12 signs which are> physically identifiable. Yet we find that the moon takes slightly more than> 27 days to cover the sidereal zodiac and this technically requires the> creation of another nakshatra. Since this nakshatra cannot be physically> identified it is a intercalary nakshatra. The feet of Vishnu being on the> three lokas is helping us to identify these three lokas as physically> independant entities, yet the body of Vishnu which is not visible connects> these two feet of Vishnu and consequently connects the lokas. This invisible> body of Vishnu is identified as the last intercalary invisible nakshatra> called 'Abhijit'. This brings us to yet another definition and that is of> Abhijit and that it is 'Hari-vamsa' or the family of Hari or Vishnu and this> nakshatra interconnects the two chakras and the three worlds (physically> manifested planes of 1) earth, 2) solar system and 3) the galaxies of the> universe).> > Every Rik of the Rig Veda can be interpreted in so many ways. I am aware of> a nmber of other ways but I think I have made the point that the knowledge> (vidya) is both Paraa and Aparaa depending on the viewpoint or the> perspective of the reader. > > There are various other issues that yourself, Sarbani, Saaji, Ajit, Partha> etc have raised. I am happy that such an enlightened discusson has taken> place in Varahamihira. I shall not like to comment on the other issues as I> know tha you all like each other very much and in every family food tastes> differ and we have to learn to cook for the whole family...don't want anyone> starving.> > Finally exodus is no solution to the vexed questions of Jyotish and> Spirituality. SJC has been formed for 'Jyotish and Spirituality' and this> thread cannot break just as the Abhijit nakshatra although not visible is> the most vital nakshatra, so also the spiritual aspect of Jyotish though not> visible is the soul of the subject. It is my fault for raising the topic on> Atmakaraka which has led to all this soul searching and some poison is bound> to churn up....it all depends on the placement of AK in our own charts!!! I> think it will be worthwhile to check the Drig dasa of the main participants> of this discussion.> > Can some kind soul please post the chart of Saaji, Prabodh, Sarbani,> Chandrasekhar, Ajit, Partha and last but not least (this scribe!!)> > With best wishes and warm regards,> Sanjay Rath> * * *> Sri Jagannath Center®> 15B Gangaram Hospital Road > New Delhi 110060, India> http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162> * * *> > > ________________________________> Chandrashekhar [chandrashekhar46] > Friday, March 18, 2005 3:34 AM> varahamihira > Re: |Sri Varaha| Mundakya on Para> > Dear Ajit,> You are right. This is what I have been trying to convey, I hope you> succeed.> Chandrashekhar.> > Ajit Krishnan wrote: > <!--[if mso 9]--> <!--[endif]--> > > > .. hamsasso.aham ..> > > > Dear Sarbani and others,> > > > SS: "I decided to give you Shankara's commentary on this, as he is more> hardhitting than I can be."> > > > Just as a bad reading of the upanishads can be misleading, a bad reading of> Shankara's commentary can be equally misleading. > > > > SS: Shankara's answer to this is, the definition of vidya in this instance> is to realize. No doubt the Vedas, Vedangas and the Upanishads impart> Para Vidya> > > > Shankara teaches that the primary purpose of vedanta is to teach the> bramha-vidya which cannot be taught. It is in this context that his> commentary must be read. The hard hitting Shankara says "Para vidya is that> knowledge of the impreishable which is imparted only by the Upanishads, and> not merely the assemblage of words found in the Upanishads". He chooses the> upanishads, and the upanishads alone in his example. His parampara (the> keeper of his views) does not hold that the "vedangas impart para vidya". > > > > Madhusudana Saraswati wrote somewhere in his commentary on the Gita that> when two objects are compared, and one is disparaged, it is often done> solely to eulogize the other object. When we say that the teachings of the> upanishads alone 'impart' brahma-vidya, the aim is to the raise the> upanishads to new dizzying heights, and not to lower any other subject.> However…..> > > > SS: The Vedas, Vedangas and Vedantas (the last includes the Upanishads) all> teach Brahmagyana. That is the ultimate aim of jyotish, as it is a> vedanga…can we be jyotisis at that level?> > > > The upanishads are useful only because they impart para vidya. Using it for> other purposes can be very, very dangerous. The knowledge of Jyotisha is> very much useful in daily life. It is also true that it's ultimate aim, like> the aim of all shastras is certainly to bring about brahmagyana.> > > > When Shankara discriminates between the karma-kanda and gyana-kanda of the> vedas, and accepts only the latter as attempting to point directly to> brahman, it seems silly to attempt to quote his words to convey that the> primary role of Jyotisha and the Upanishads are the same.> > > > SS: Shankara adds, that this para knowledge can only be achieved after> reading and understanding the scriptures, when you decide to take the> shelter of a guru and take vairagya.> > > > Yes, his parampara is very clear in saying that vividhiShaa sannyaasa is> required as a preparation for Brahman-realization. Let us use this as the> measuring stick for a moment. Is the percentage of Jyotishas who take to> sannyasa larger than the percentage of the general public who take to> sannyasa? Is the percentage of Jyotishas who take to sannyasa equal to or> larger than the percentage of Vedantins who take to sannyasa?> > > > GD commented on "how dangerous little knowledge can be"> > > > Indeed.> > > > ajit> ________________________________> > > |Om Tat Sat|> http://www.varahamihira > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2005 Report Share Posted March 22, 2005 Dear Sanjay, Thank you for your explanation. I was merely going by what Parashara said. There are many Dashas where either some planets do not appear in Dasha order and so on. So repeating of some Signs or other wise may not necessarily make the Dashas wrong. Having said that, what you have explained appears to be logical from astrological view point. The only factor difficult to understand is that Drig Dashas appear to be dependent on strength derived from 9th, 10th and 11th Bhavas as these sign's aspected Rasis are considered. Again Leo being an odd Rasi counting will have to be in zodiacal direction, but as you suggested we will have to go for anti zodiacal count. Perhaps this needs more research. However for the present I would go by your definition. I am going for a long leave of absence from lists, so see you some time in future. Regards, Chandrashekhar. Sanjay Rath wrote: Jaya Jagannatha Dear Chandrasekharji For dual signs this order cannot happen. Let us say Dhanus lagna Drig dasa were to be reckoned. The first dasa would be of Leo and signs aspecting are Libra, Capricorn and Aries, Then Virgo dasa and signs aspecting are Pisces, Sagg and Gemini Then Libra and signs aspecting ar Leo, Taurus and Aquarius. Now in the above scheme we have Libra and Leo repeating twice whereas Cancer and Scrpio vanish from the scheme. This is not to be and instead for dual signs start from the 9th house and take the subsequent in the reverse i.e. 9th, 8th and 7th and their aspecting signs. The first dasa is Leo, aspected by Libra, Capricorn and Aries, Second dasa is Cancer aspected by Scorpio, Aquarius and Taurus Third dasa is Gemini aspected by Pisces, Sagg and Virgo In this manner the drig dasas cover the signs for dual lagna. These small ints from the tradition have made Jaimini so interesting else we would have been breaking our head trying to figure out the sequence. Another thing - there is a deep philosophy behind this reversal for dual signs and you will appreciate the A-U-M factor in the three types of signs. With best wishes and warm regards, Sanjay Rath * * * Sri Jagannath Center® 15B Gangaram Hospital Road New Delhi 110060, India http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162 * * * Chandrashekhar [chandrashekhar46] Tuesday, March 22, 2005 1:46 AM varahamihira Re: |Sri Varaha| Mundakya on Para Dear Sanjay, Does not the drig dasha begin from 9th house and signs aspected by it, then 10th house and signs aspected by it followed by 11th house and signs aspected by it? The copy of BPHS I have says this. If this is correct, Virgo (10th house Rasi) would be the 5th dasha in my chart, and would not be operating at this time. Again is there a difference in the way drigdasha period is calculated? Are they treated as Sthir or Chara dasha in Parampara? Chandrashekhar. Sanjay Rath wrote: Jaya Jagannatha Dear Partha I should have known..you are the kind soul. Others kindly get the charts from Partha's mail. Let's see the particiapnts- 1. Sarbani Sarkar. Mina Lagna with Guru in 12th in Kumbha. Drig dasa is Kanya an earthy sign (aspecting the lagna) and antardasa is Mesha aspecting natal Jupiter as the transit Jupiter is in Virgo over drig dasa rasi. 2. Chandrasekhar Sharma. Dhanus Lagna with Guru in 11th house in Libra. Drig dasa is Kanya an earthy sign (aspecting the lagna) and antardasa is Libra with Guru in it! See that Sarbani and Chandrasekhar have an exactly similar drig dasa of 'argumentative Kanya' with the dasa rasi aspecting lagna i.e. they are *really* and honestly seeking answers. Can you see how the antardasa in both the cases relate to the sign occupied by Guru causing them to debate on Paraa Vidya and Aparaa Vidya instead of whether actresses are wearing shorter hems these days. Just see how the drig dasa is clearly causing the person to focus on spiritual knowledge. Theproblem is that they would not have read the Upanishad on their own and *Saaji* was the nimitta for them to read the Upanishad. See how Jupiter causes them to read the holy scriptures. 3. Let us examine the other Gurus invloved. Pathasarathy has Dhanus Lagna with Jupiter in Aries. He is under Cancer drig dasa with Saturn in it but the real clincher is the antardasa is ALSO of Aries with Jupiter in it!!! Thus in all three cases we have the gurus with antardasa directly linked to Jupiter searching for the knowledge of the Upanishads. Now come to the students. 3. Prabodh Venkhade. Mesha Lagna with Guru in Simha in 5th house. Drig dasa is Makara an earthy sign aspecting natal Guru but not lagna. Please note that Makara is the sign causing doubts but Guru aspecting the dasa rasi removes the doubts. The antardasa is Mina with the eclipse combination of Sun + Rahu and Saturn joining it. 'Saadhana' not required until the aspect of Jupier seems to have changed someting but everything cannot change until September when the antardasa changes. However the dasa rasi is aspected by Jupiter indicating the grace of Guru during the entire dasa period. 4. Saaji Don't have his chart With best wishes and warm regards, Sanjay Rath * * * Sri Jagannath Center® 15B Gangaram Hospital Road New Delhi 110060, India http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162 * * * Partha Sarathy [partvinu] Saturday, March 19, 2005 1:42 PM varahamihira Re: |Sri Varaha| Mundakya on Para Dear Sanjayji I am attatching the files of five of the six people mentioned. Is the attatchment sufficient, or do i need to copy paste the rasi-navamsa? best wishes partha On Sat, 19 Mar 2005 12:18:33 +0530, SRath.com <guruji wrote: > Jaya Jagannatha > Dear Chandrasekhar ji et.al, > > It is a question of viewpoint. mano to mai ganga maa hun na mano to baheta > paani...should sum up the discussion. When I was a kid, my feet touched a > book and my mother scolded me and taught me to life the book and put it in > its place and then to touch the book, touch my head and to touch my heart > and say Vishnu, Vishnu, Vishnu. I was so young that I would say 'Bistu'! Go > to any publisher and you will find copies of the Bhagavat Gita lying on the > floor like vegetables. The most holy Rig Veda which finds a place a the > alter is not given any more respect. For them it is just another book after > all the Rig Veda and Bhagavat Gita are just another book(s). > > What is the real Veda is the akshara in them or the syllables which placed > in certain meters symbolise God Himself in His various manifestations. For > example, there are 10 mandalas in the Rig Veda (anything to do with the > digital system and the navagraha + lagna? see how my mind thinks). There are > various metre's called chhanda and these symbolise the potential of the Lord > for action of which primary are the seven metres gayatri etc. Gayatri has > the creative aspect to it. > > The *real* book or vidya is hidden in the akshara that makes thoses words > and those words that makes those riks or metre's. The *unreal* vidya is the > one that is manifested materially as a white paper with black ink markings > symbolisingthe akshara. Languages vary and the markings will change from one > language to another that the book is published in. So the Vedas, Vedangas, > Upanishads etc are all Aparavidya when viewed either from the publishers > perspective or from the perspective of the material world but the same are > Paraa Vidya when viewed from the perspective of a Sadhaka (one who is making > the RIGHT EFFORT) for the Paraa Vidya (supreme knowledge that defines the > Lord). > > I will illustrate my point (as is my habit). > Illustration-1: Devata Vishnu Action: Upholding Dharma > ÇIi[ pda iv c³me iv:[ugaeRpa Ada_y>, Atae xmaRi[ xaryn!. > tréëi padä vi cakrame viñëurgopä adäbhyaù | ato dharmäëi dhärayan || > This rik of the Rig Veda can be interpreted in many ways. > > One from the spiritual view, we see that Vishnu has defined Dharma by > placing his holy feet (12th house-see Ista devata reference) in the chakra. > These feet are placed in 'Bhu', Bhuva and Svah lokas. Thus we get the first > definition of dharma as given by Brihaspati - 'om bhur bhuva svah'. This is > related to the Vamana avatar and hence Parasara rightly attributes the > highest manfestation of Jupiter as the Vishnu avatara - Sri Vaamana. (there > is more to this name) > > Two from the phenomenal view where the action is cognizible, we find that > the first foot on Bhu loka or the earth and second foot on the Bhuva or the > solar system creates the tropical zodiac where all terrestrial phenomena > happen due to the interation between these two lokas. The zodiac for this > has been explained by Parasara in the Vishnu Purana as the Tropical zodiac > (call it Vishnu Chakra). The first foot on Bhuloka and the third foot on > Svah loka destroys ahamkara (like Raja Bali) and the interaction between > these two feet of the lord causes the Svahloka (stars in the galaxy) to > influence life on Bhuloka (earth plane). This interactive chart is the > Sidereal (star based) Zodiac. This is Jyotisa shastra and the vedanga. > > Three from the Paraa Vidya perspective, it teaches that the three most holy > aspects of Vishnu are 'A' 'U' and 'M' which represent the creation, > preservation and dissolution as the primary activity of the lord of all > beings. The esoterc teaching here is of the sookshma pranava - AUM. The word > padam also means steps in a process and indicates that everything that is > being created shall be sustained and then dissolved. The most hidden meaning > is learning detatchment from these processes as they are sure to happen > around everybody and everything. > > Four from the phonological perspective, the metre has each feet consisting > of 8 akshara each that combine to form the tri-pada metre called Gayatri. > Hence Krishna says that among the metres I am gayatri (Bhagavat Gita). > > Five from the kalachakra perspective, the two chakras are derived from the > interaction between (1) the bhuloka and bhuva loka and (2) bhuloka and svah > loka. These chakras or zodiacs have 27 nakshatra and 12 signs which are > physically identifiable. Yet we find that the moon takes slightly more than > 27 days to cover the sidereal zodiac and this technically requires the > creation of another nakshatra. Since this nakshatra cannot be physically > identified it is a intercalary nakshatra. The feet of Vishnu being on the > three lokas is helping us to identify these three lokas as physically > independant entities, yet the body of Vishnu which is not visible connects > these two feet of Vishnu and consequently connects the lokas. This invisible > body of Vishnu is identified as the last intercalary invisible nakshatra > called 'Abhijit'. This brings us to yet another definition and that is of > Abhijit and that it is 'Hari-vamsa' or the family of Hari or Vishnu and this > nakshatra interconnects the two chakras and the three worlds (physically > manifested planes of 1) earth, 2) solar system and 3) the galaxies of the > universe). > > Every Rik of the Rig Veda can be interpreted in so many ways. I am aware of > a nmber of other ways but I think I have made the point that the knowledge > (vidya) is both Paraa and Aparaa depending on the viewpoint or the > perspective of the reader. > > There are various other issues that yourself, Sarbani, Saaji, Ajit, Partha > etc have raised. I am happy that such an enlightened discusson has taken > place in Varahamihira. I shall not like to comment on the other issues as I > know tha you all like each other very much and in every family food tastes > differ and we have to learn to cook for the whole family...don't want anyone > starving. > > Finally exodus is no solution to the vexed questions of Jyotish and > Spirituality. SJC has been formed for 'Jyotish and Spirituality' and this > thread cannot break just as the Abhijit nakshatra although not visible is > the most vital nakshatra, so also the spiritual aspect of Jyotish though not > visible is the soul of the subject. It is my fault for raising the topic on > Atmakaraka which has led to all this soul searching and some poison is bound > to churn up....it all depends on the placement of AK in our own charts!!! I > think it will be worthwhile to check the Drig dasa of the main participants > of this discussion. > > Can some kind soul please post the chart of Saaji, Prabodh, Sarbani, > Chandrasekhar, Ajit, Partha and last but not least (this scribe!!) > > With best wishes and warm regards, > Sanjay Rath > * * * > Sri Jagannath Center® > 15B Gangaram Hospital Road > New Delhi 110060, India > http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162 > * * * > > > ________________________________ > Chandrashekhar [chandrashekhar46] > Friday, March 18, 2005 3:34 AM > varahamihira > Re: |Sri Varaha| Mundakya on Para > > Dear Ajit, > You are right. This is what I have been trying to convey, I hope you > succeed. > Chandrashekhar. > > Ajit Krishnan wrote: > <!--[if mso 9]--> <!--[endif]--> > > > .. hamsasso.aham .. > > > > Dear Sarbani and others, > > > > SS: "I decided to give you Shankara's commentary on this, as he is more > hardhitting than I can be." > > > > Just as a bad reading of the upanishads can be misleading, a bad reading of > Shankara's commentary can be equally misleading. > > > > SS: Shankara's answer to this is, the definition of vidya in this instance > is to realize. No doubt the Vedas, Vedangas and the Upanishads impart > Para Vidya > > > > Shankara teaches that the primary purpose of vedanta is to teach the > bramha-vidya which cannot be taught. It is in this context that his > commentary must be read. The hard hitting Shankara says "Para vidya is that > knowledge of the impreishable which is imparted only by the Upanishads, and > not merely the assemblage of words found in the Upanishads". He chooses the > upanishads, and the upanishads alone in his example. His parampara (the > keeper of his views) does not hold that the "vedangas impart para vidya". > > > > Madhusudana Saraswati wrote somewhere in his commentary on the Gita that > when two objects are compared, and one is disparaged, it is often done > solely to eulogize the other object. When we say that the teachings of the > upanishads alone 'impart' brahma-vidya, the aim is to the raise the > upanishads to new dizzying heights, and not to lower any other subject. > However….. > > > > SS: The Vedas, Vedangas and Vedantas (the last includes the Upanishads) all > teach Brahmagyana. That is the ultimate aim of jyotish, as it is a > vedanga…can we be jyotisis at that level? > > > > The upanishads are useful only because they impart para vidya. Using it for > other purposes can be very, very dangerous. The knowledge of Jyotisha is > very much useful in daily life. It is also true that it's ultimate aim, like > the aim of all shastras is certainly to bring about brahmagyana. > > > > When Shankara discriminates between the karma-kanda and gyana-kanda of the > vedas, and accepts only the latter as attempting to point directly to > brahman, it seems silly to attempt to quote his words to convey that the > primary role of Jyotisha and the Upanishads are the same. > > > > SS: Shankara adds, that this para knowledge can only be achieved after > reading and understanding the scriptures, when you decide to take the > shelter of a guru and take vairagya. > > > > Yes, his parampara is very clear in saying that vividhiShaa sannyaasa is > required as a preparation for Brahman-realization. Let us use this as the > measuring stick for a moment. Is the percentage of Jyotishas who take to > sannyasa larger than the percentage of the general public who take to > sannyasa? Is the percentage of Jyotishas who take to sannyasa equal to or > larger than the percentage of Vedantins who take to sannyasa? > > > > GD commented on "how dangerous little knowledge can be" > > > > Indeed. > > > > ajit > ________________________________ > > > |Om Tat Sat| > http://www.varahamihira > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 Dear Sanjay, I will try to do that. Chandrashekhar. Sanjay Rath wrote: Jaya Jagannatha Dear Chadrasekhar ji BULL'S EYE again...see Saaji has just started the drig dasa of Aries with Jupiter in it and is seeking spiritual knowledge. The first antardasa was of Mars in 8th house in Gemini! I don't have to coment on this antardasa, it is simple and straight and it does not aspect the lagna, nor 9th but has lagnesh...*buddhi* is a strange thing sometimes, as in the 8th house the lagna lord causes learning through fighting (Mars), research and doubting. But it will be learning as the dasa has Guru in it and aspects lagna. Saaji seeks a guru and should find one in a Sanyasin who will guide him...ask him to meet ammachi or some such lady saint. See BK for details With best wishes and warm regards, Sanjay Rath * * * Sri Jagannath Center® 15B Gangaram Hospital Road New Delhi 110060, India http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162 * * * Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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