Guest guest Posted April 14, 2007 Report Share Posted April 14, 2007 Dear Shailesh,I am resending this message as the quotations from the paper is not clear. I have now made it bold. In his website, Sanjayji has an article called the Path of theKarakas, which was earlier published in JD, October 2003 issue.Relevant portions are given below in case it helps you and others toclarify. Please note he is talking of multiple karakas for each of thehouse and he is not talking of the primary karaka here. So from thispaper one can assume that he is talking of Saturn and Mars in the sameway he is a talking of Jupiter and Sun for the 9th house and Sun,Mercury, Jupiter and Saturn for the 10th house, Jupiter and Saturn forthe 11th house and Moon and Mercury for the 4th house. Secondly, do keep in mind when we are talking of Saturn with referenceto the 6th house, it is with a connotation of the 'serving' aspect ofSaturn. Hence we see servants, pets, service from the 6th house, allof which are linked to Saturn while Mars shows the parakrama in everyaspect like war, fighting spirit, litigations, battles, conflicts.Nevertheless Mars is mentioned by Parasara as the primary karaka forthe 6th house as it is the bhava of parakrama along with the 3rd house.Now, from what I gather between your and Rafal's talk is that perhapsthe confusion crept in because of the discussion on the Shadripuswhich are seen from the 6th house. Shadripu literally means the SixEnemies. Another name for the 6th house is Ripu Bhava. These SixEnemies are the internal enemies, which the human mind is battlingwith constantly. These six enemies are the vices which corrupt oursenses and I think they can be explained by botb Mars and Saturn. "we are advised to follow the path of the käraka to ensure that weprosper in activities related to a house...every house has manysignificators and a wise man follows the path of the significators inall activities concerning the house..."The sixth house deals with enemies for which Mars advises a show ofstrength, merciless subjugation and destruction at all times while theother activity of service is signified by Saturn showing the path ofsheer hard work...Sun signifying the ninth house demands obedience of the laws and doingone's duty while Jupiter advises faith to the preceptor and sincerityin devotion...The tenth house has four significators. The Sun (king) determines thework – accept it graciously; Mercury determines the learning – payattention and learn everything there is to learn; Jupiter gives theintelligence for innovation, planning and execution – use it freely;Saturn gives the diligence to finish the task against all odds –strive with all heart and soul...In matters of gains follow the honest path of Jupiter and in expensesthe frugality of Saturn for optimum growth in savings".Best regards,Sarbani Rath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2007 Report Share Posted April 14, 2007 || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Narayanaya || Namaste Sarbani, Thanks for your clarification - and the very relevant quotes from Sanjay ji. After all, the whole discussion arose as to when it was held out that ONLY Saturn in the Karaka for VIth house. Even Sanjay ji does not hold that view - you have just re-confirmed that. And Guru ji will the last person to teach any thing contrary to BPHS. Other than the above, I had only two points of disagreement - and although they arose out of this particular thread, they do apply to other discussions as well. 1. No jyotish or Guru is above Parasara. We cannot take shelter behind Guru or Parampara to go against the principles of BPHS. If one says that any 'specific' sutra appears to be interpolated, let him/ her prove it logically, by applying the accepted jyotish rules. Sanjay ji also has repeatedly mentioned that. 2. No planet is uni-dimensional. They change their naunces depending upon the totality of chart. Let us not make sweeping statements about any planet. Hopefully, the controversy will close with your clarifications. Regards, - Shailesh - sarbani3062002 varahamihira Saturday, April 14, 2007 11:57 AM Re: |Sri Varaha| Karka for VIth house Dear Shailesh,In his website, Sanjayji has an article called the Path of theKarakas, which was earlier published in JD, October 2003 issue.Relevant portions are given below in case it helps you and others toclarify. Please note he is talking of multiple karakas for each of thehouse and he is not talking of the primary karaka here. So from thispaper one can assume that he is talking of Saturn and Mars in the sameway he is a talking of Jupiter and Sun for the 9th house and Sun,Mercury, Jupiter and Saturn for the 10th house, Jupiter and Saturn forthe 11th house and Moon and Mercury for the 4th house. Secondly, do keep in mind when we are talking of Saturn with referenceto the 6th house, it is with a connotation of the 'serving' aspect ofSaturn. Hence we see servants, pets, service from the 6th house, allof which are linked to Saturn while Mars shows the parakrama in everyaspect like war, fighting spirit, litigations, battles, conflicts.Nevertheless Mars is mentioned by Parasara as the primary karaka forthe 6th house as it is the bhava of parakrama along with the 3rd house.Now, from what I gather between your and Rafal's talk is that perhapsthe confusion crept in because of the discussion on the Shadripuswhich are seen from the 6th house. Shadripu literally means the SixEnemies. Another name for the 6th house is Ripu Bhava. These SixEnemies are the internal enemies, which the human mind is battlingwith constantly. These six enemies are the vices which corrupt oursenses and I think they can be explained by botb Mars and Saturn. "we are advised to follow the path of the käraka to ensure that weprosper in activities related to a house...every house has manysignificators and a wise man follows the path of the significators inall activities concerning the house..."The sixth house deals with enemies for which Mars advises a show ofstrength, merciless subjugation and destruction at all times while theother activity of service is signified by Saturn showing the path ofsheer hard work...Sun signifying the ninth house demands obedience of the laws and doingone's duty while Jupiter advises faith to the preceptor and sincerityin devotion...The tenth house has four significators. The Sun (king) determines thework – accept it graciously; Mercury determines the learning – payattention and learn everything there is to learn; Jupiter gives theintelligence for innovation, planning and execution – use it freely;Saturn gives the diligence to finish the task against all odds –strive with all heart and soul...In matters of gains follow the honest path of Jupiter and in expensesthe frugality of Saturn for optimum growth in savings.Best regards,Sarbani Rath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2007 Report Share Posted April 14, 2007 Shri Brahmadaru Smarami Dear Shailesh, Even in COVA, he discusses the multiple karakas of the 6th house, that is Mars, Saturn and Mercury. Both in the JD article and in COVA he is discussing multiple karakas for the bhavas. BUT there is also one primary karaka for each house. And that is where the debate is coming. Now in his writings, Sanjayji has nowhere mentioned that Saturn is the primary karaka. Parasara has clearly mentioned it is Mars. It makes sense to me as both the 3rd and 6th houses are houses of parakrama. And the notion of enemies and battling them, whether external or internal enemies like Shadripus, can be quite nicely explained by Mars. Ask Rafal and Sanjay P whether they remember if Sanjayji clearly stated that Saturn is the primary karaka for the 6th house. Because in his writings he hasn't. Best Regards, Sarbani Sarkar Rath http://sarbani.com Shailesh C Chadha [scchadha] Saturday, April 14, 2007 2:48 PMvarahamihira Subject: Re: |Sri Varaha| Karka for VIth house || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Narayanaya || Namaste Sarbani, Thanks for your clarification - and the very relevant quotes from Sanjay ji. After all, the whole discussion arose as to when it was held out that ONLY Saturn in the Karaka for VIth house. Even Sanjay ji does not hold that view - you have just re-confirmed that. And Guru ji will the last person to teach any thing contrary to BPHS. Other than the above, I had only two points of disagreement - and although they arose out of this particular thread, they do apply to other discussions as well. 1. No jyotish or Guru is above Parasara. We cannot take shelter behind Guru or Parampara to go against the principles of BPHS. If one says that any 'specific' sutra appears to be interpolated, let him/ her prove it logically, by applying the accepted jyotish rules. Sanjay ji also has repeatedly mentioned that. 2. No planet is uni-dimensional. They change their naunces depending upon the totality of chart. Let us not make sweeping statements about any planet. Hopefully, the controversy will close with your clarifications. Regards, - Shailesh - sarbani3062002 varahamihira Saturday, April 14, 2007 11:57 AM Re: |Sri Varaha| Karka for VIth house Dear Shailesh,In his website, Sanjayji has an article called the Path of theKarakas, which was earlier published in JD, October 2003 issue.Relevant portions are given below in case it helps you and others toclarify. Please note he is talking of multiple karakas for each of thehouse and he is not talking of the primary karaka here. So from thispaper one can assume that he is talking of Saturn and Mars in the sameway he is a talking of Jupiter and Sun for the 9th house and Sun,Mercury, Jupiter and Saturn for the 10th house, Jupiter and Saturn forthe 11th house and Moon and Mercury for the 4th house. Secondly, do keep in mind when we are talking of Saturn with referenceto the 6th house, it is with a connotation of the 'serving' aspect ofSaturn. Hence we see servants, pets, service from the 6th house, allof which are linked to Saturn while Mars shows the parakrama in everyaspect like war, fighting spirit, litigations, battles, conflicts.Nevertheless Mars is mentioned by Parasara as the primary karaka forthe 6th house as it is the bhava of parakrama along with the 3rd house.Now, from what I gather between your and Rafal's talk is that perhapsthe confusion crept in because of the discussion on the Shadripuswhich are seen from the 6th house. Shadripu literally means the SixEnemies. Another name for the 6th house is Ripu Bhava. These SixEnemies are the internal enemies, which the human mind is battlingwith constantly. These six enemies are the vices which corrupt oursenses and I think they can be explained by botb Mars and Saturn. "we are advised to follow the path of the käraka to ensure that weprosper in activities related to a house...every house has manysignificators and a wise man follows the path of the significators inall activities concerning the house..."The sixth house deals with enemies for which Mars advises a show ofstrength, merciless subjugation and destruction at all times while theother activity of service is signified by Saturn showing the path ofsheer hard work...Sun signifying the ninth house demands obedience of the laws and doingone's duty while Jupiter advises faith to the preceptor and sincerityin devotion...The tenth house has four significators. The Sun (king) determines thework – accept it graciously; Mercury determines the learning – payattention and learn everything there is to learn; Jupiter gives theintelligence for innovation, planning and execution – use it freely;Saturn gives the diligence to finish the task against all odds –strive with all heart and soul...In matters of gains follow the honest path of Jupiter and in expensesthe frugality of Saturn for optimum growth in savings.Best regards,Sarbani Rath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2007 Report Share Posted April 14, 2007 hare rama krsna Dear Sarbaniji, Even in Serbija it was this dispute in one of the lectures of Zoranji (or His student) where Vistiji objected that Mangal is not the primary karaka of the sixth bhava. Vistiji teaches this often in his mp3-jaimini-session and in one of the latest lectures of Sanjayji Ive heard the same, which confirmed Vistiji teachings. Best is to ask Sanjayji and the discussion will be finalized. More to Shaileshji: Regarding the Shastra : often even in classics authorities contradicts each other, I understand that Parasara is author of Visnu Purana. But for example if You open the Horary chapters then sometimes authors say that seventh shows the theft, while the parampara also teaches that its sixth bhava (enemy) and seventh is more used to regain lost things (prasna tantra). Sometimes even classics says about other authors opinion (often rsis like Garga etc) Saravali often talks about Yavana's opinion. All this is clarified by Parampara. And without the Parampara there is no real benefit to this SJC because everyone has this books and commentaries. Parampara gives key through mantra, and reason through knowledge in descending process. Regards, Rafal Gendarz SJC Guru www.rohinaa.com (+48) 503 44 18 18 Sarbani Sarkar Rath napisał(a): Shri Brahmadaru Smarami Dear Shailesh, Even in COVA, he discusses the multiple karakas of the 6th house, that is Mars, Saturn and Mercury. Both in the JD article and in COVA he is discussing multiple karakas for the bhavas. BUT there is also one primary karaka for each house. And that is where the debate is coming. Now in his writings, Sanjayji has nowhere mentioned that Saturn is the primary karaka. Parasara has clearly mentioned it is Mars. It makes sense to me as both the 3rd and 6th houses are houses of parakrama. And the notion of enemies and battling them, whether external or internal enemies like Shadripus, can be quite nicely explained by Mars. Ask Rafal and Sanjay P whether they remember if Sanjayji clearly stated that Saturn is the primary karaka for the 6th house. Because in his writings he hasn't. Best Regards, Sarbani Sarkar Rath http://sarbani.com Shailesh C Chadha [scchadha ] Saturday, April 14, 2007 2:48 PM varahamihira Re: |Sri Varaha| Karka for VIth house || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Narayanaya || Namaste Sarbani, Thanks for your clarification - and the very relevant quotes from Sanjay ji. After all, the whole discussion arose as to when it was held out that ONLY Saturn in the Karaka for VIth house. Even Sanjay ji does not hold that view - you have just re-confirmed that. And Guru ji will the last person to teach any thing contrary to BPHS. Other than the above, I had only two points of disagreement - and although they arose out of this particular thread, they do apply to other discussions as well. 1. No jyotish or Guru is above Parasara. We cannot take shelter behind Guru or Parampara to go against the principles of BPHS. If one says that any 'specific' sutra appears to be interpolated, let him/ her prove it logically, by applying the accepted jyotish rules. Sanjay ji also has repeatedly mentioned that. 2. No planet is uni-dimensional. They change their naunces depending upon the totality of chart. Let us not make sweeping statements about any planet. Hopefully, the controversy will close with your clarifications. Regards, - Shailesh ----- Original Message ----- sarbani3062002 To: varahamihira Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 11:57 AM Subject: Re: |Sri Varaha| Karka for VIth house Dear Shailesh, In his website, Sanjayji has an article called the Path of the Karakas, which was earlier published in JD, October 2003 issue. Relevant portions are given below in case it helps you and others to clarify. Please note he is talking of multiple karakas for each of the house and he is not talking of the primary karaka here. So from this paper one can assume that he is talking of Saturn and Mars in the same way he is a talking of Jupiter and Sun for the 9th house and Sun, Mercury, Jupiter and Saturn for the 10th house, Jupiter and Saturn for the 11th house and Moon and Mercury for the 4th house. Secondly, do keep in mind when we are talking of Saturn with reference to the 6th house, it is with a connotation of the 'serving' aspect of Saturn. Hence we see servants, pets, service from the 6th house, all of which are linked to Saturn while Mars shows the parakrama in every aspect like war, fighting spirit, litigations, battles, conflicts. Nevertheless Mars is mentioned by Parasara as the primary karaka for the 6th house as it is the bhava of parakrama along with the 3rd house. Now, from what I gather between your and Rafal's talk is that perhaps the confusion crept in because of the discussion on the Shadripus which are seen from the 6th house. Shadripu literally means the Six Enemies. Another name for the 6th house is Ripu Bhava. These Six Enemies are the internal enemies, which the human mind is battling with constantly. These six enemies are the vices which corrupt our senses and I think they can be explained by botb Mars and Saturn. "we are advised to follow the path of the käraka to ensure that we prosper in activities related to a house...every house has many significators and a wise man follows the path of the significators in all activities concerning the house... "The sixth house deals with enemies for which Mars advises a show of strength, merciless subjugation and destruction at all times while the other activity of service is signified by Saturn showing the path of sheer hard work... Sun signifying the ninth house demands obedience of the laws and doing one's duty while Jupiter advises faith to the preceptor and sincerity in devotion... The tenth house has four significators. The Sun (king) determines the work – accept it graciously; Mercury determines the learning – pay attention and learn everything there is to learn; Jupiter gives the intelligence for innovation, planning and execution – use it freely; Saturn gives the diligence to finish the task against all odds – strive with all heart and soul... In matters of gains follow the honest path of Jupiter and in expenses the frugality of Saturn for optimum growth in savings. Best regards, Sarbani Rath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2007 Report Share Posted April 14, 2007 We've got involved in a nice discussion re VI H. karakas, supported by excellent Sanjay's article "Path of karaka'- the thread was enlightening before we started sabotaging it- One would think that we all have read Sanjay's article BEFORE posting 'disagreement', now I see that Sarbani's reminder of the said article resolved the problem! Which shouldn't have existed in the first place, does not exist, if we could only stop empty rhetoric /for good/. Posts like that discourage honest discussion and people interested in meaningful exchange of knowledge. Who has that much time to defend the obvious, explain same thing over and over again, 'serve' readily available knowledge to one person many times...Hope this won't stop this fine discussion, I personally benefited from. Regards, A.Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme wrote: hare rama krsnaDear Shailesh,Fine..We can go here further & further without any results. Just ask Sanjayji.Regards,Rafal GendarzSJC Guruwww.rohinaa.com(+48) 503 44 18 18 Shailesh C Chadha napisa³(a): || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Narayanaya || Namaste Rafal, Sorry, but once again, I disagree. I have highest regard for Sanjay ji's teachings - he is my direct Guru in this parampara - and he tells us to fall back to BPHS when in doubt. If you do value Sanjay jis teaching more than 'some sastra', please remember that Sanjay ji has always held that no teacher is above BPHS. I would like to repeat that if our, our our Guru's line of argument/ thinking leads us to any conclusion that is contrary to BPHS, then we SHOULD conclude that we are missing some clue. It would be dishonest on our part to selectively, and subjectively, qoute 'some sastra' when it suits our line of thinking - but when it does not, say that "Parasara we have today is the work of one person who was gathering this from many pandits in villages". Agreed that "So there is sastra in form of codes but there is Guru who gave me the unzipped version of knowledge and that is what I use in my Jyotish" but Gurus explanations have to be within the ambit of the original 'codes' contained in the sastra - zipped cow cannot become unzipped monkey. Many of the examples, etc., quoted could be also explained by understanding the respective dignities/ lordships/ stregths/ aspects, instead of turning the jyotish fundamentals on their head. And please always remeber, we all are in this forum and SJC to improve our understanding of this deep science - not to dogmatically defend our personal beliefs and prejudices. It applies to me, as it does to every one else. Regards, - Shailesh - Rafal Gendarz varahamihira Friday, April 13, 2007 8:12 PM Re: |Sri Varaha| Karka for VIth house hare rama krsnaDear Shaileshji,It depends what You value more Mercury or Jupiter - this was one of the discusion in room in Serbija where Sanjayji told us about importance of sastra vs importance of Guru - of course I belong to the second category. There can be many examples where the Parampara help us to understand the Sastra's and of course Parasara we have today is the work of one person who was gathering this from many pandits in villages. If Sanjayji tell me that Sani is PRIMARY SIGNIFICATOR then for me this is the main authority because I have faith and knowledge for Sanjayji Sani Atmakaraka - tradition/parampara. If the BPHS tell me that some yoga in twelfth bhava gives moksha, then Parampara tells me that I should treat Karakamsa as the Lagna, if Parasara/Brhat Jataka tells me to look at Surya or Moon in D3 for previous loka then Parampara also comes and helps me see which Dreshkon I should open. So there is sastra in form of codes but there is Guru who gave me the unzipped version of knowledge and that is what I use in my Jyotish. I respect Your way of approach but Im sure my Guru cant be wrong and also some sastra defend this point of view.Regards,Rafal GendarzSJC Guruwww.rohinaa.com(+48) 503 44 18 18 Shailesh Chadha napisa³(a): || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Narayanaya || Namaste Rafal, Yes, of course there is a link between Hardwork and Weakness. Excess of hardwork may lead to temporary weakness; on the otherhand Weakness leads to inability to undertake hardwork. But how is this fact relevant to the thread - which is about primary significator for the 6th house? And how does this fact over-rule the teachings of BPHS, which teachs that Mars is the significator of 6th house. Later savants may have added Saturn - and it could be in line with your line of reasoning about shad-ripus. Even then, at best, Saturn can be described as a co-significator. No teacher; or arguement can be greater that Parasara's teachings; at best it indicates our own ignorance - or inability to correctly decipher Parasara's teachings. Regards, - Shailesh. On 13 Apr 2007 00:28:50 -0700, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme (AT) wp (DOT) pl> wrote: +om namo bhagavate vasudevaya+Dear Shaileshji, NamaskarThere is a link between hard work and weakness, as the hard work is demanded when the objective is not realised. All shadripu have its own significations and has karaka(venus-kama, mercury-jelousy, mars-anger, ketu-moha etc) and own bhava (2-kama,3-krodha etc). Now this will be more clear when we learn about 1) nakshatra's & 2) lord of the year (samvatsara is represented by Sani), in these scheme we see that Nakshatra of Jupiter will show area of mastership & strength while the Sani will show our weakness. This is teaching of my Guruji. Hope this helps. RegardsRafal Gendarzwww.rohinaa.com Visit Your Group Finance It's Now Personal Guides, news, advice & more. Y! Messenger Make free calls Call PC-to-PC worldwide- free! Mail Get on board You're invited to try the all-new Mail Beta. . -- Shailesh C Chadha#18A, St#11, Lane#2, East Marredpally, Secunderabad [AP] - 5000 026, INDIATel:+91 40-27733478(O);27737779 ® (Cell) +91 984 999 4837- Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Those who want to be SUCCESSFUL will find a way. Those who don't will find an EXCUSE.________________________________ Be smarter than spam. 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Guest guest Posted April 15, 2007 Report Share Posted April 15, 2007 Jaya Jagannatha Hello all in this discussion, Namaste Lest we forget, Bhauma is Mars the portion of Shiva’s son born on earth. Virgo is the earth sign and natural 6th house. Hence Mars is the primary 6th house indicator. Love, Swee sarbani3062002 <sarbani Organization: Sri Jagannath Centre <varahamihira > 14 Apr 2007 01:07:56 -0700 <varahamihira > Re: |Sri Varaha| Karka for VIth house Dear Shailesh, I am resending this message as the quotations from the paper is not clear. I have now made it bold. In his website, Sanjayji has an article called the Path of the Karakas, which was earlier published in JD, October 2003 issue. Relevant portions are given below in case it helps you and others to clarify. Please note he is talking of multiple karakas for each of the house and he is not talking of the primary karaka here. So from this paper one can assume that he is talking of Saturn and Mars in the same way he is a talking of Jupiter and Sun for the 9th house and Sun, Mercury, Jupiter and Saturn for the 10th house, Jupiter and Saturn for the 11th house and Moon and Mercury for the 4th house. Secondly, do keep in mind when we are talking of Saturn with reference to the 6th house, it is with a connotation of the 'serving' aspect of Saturn. Hence we see servants, pets, service from the 6th house, all of which are linked to Saturn while Mars shows the parakrama in every aspect like war, fighting spirit, litigations, battles, conflicts. Nevertheless Mars is mentioned by Parasara as the primary karaka for the 6th house as it is the bhava of parakrama along with the 3rd house. Now, from what I gather between your and Rafal's talk is that perhaps the confusion crept in because of the discussion on the Shadripus which are seen from the 6th house. Shadripu literally means the Six Enemies. Another name for the 6th house is Ripu Bhava. These Six Enemies are the internal enemies, which the human mind is battling with constantly. These six enemies are the vices which corrupt our senses and I think they can be explained by botb Mars and Saturn. " we are advised to follow the path of the käraka to ensure that we prosper in activities related to a house...every house has many significators and a wise man follows the path of the significators in all activities concerning the house... " The sixth house deals with enemies for which Mars advises a show of strength, merciless subjugation and destruction at all times while the other activity of service is signified by Saturn showing the path of sheer hard work... Sun signifying the ninth house demands obedience of the laws and doing one's duty while Jupiter advises faith to the preceptor and sincerity in devotion... The tenth house has four significators. The Sun (king) determines the work ˆ accept it graciously; Mercury determines the learning ˆ pay attention and learn everything there is to learn; Jupiter gives the intelligence for innovation, planning and execution ˆ use it freely; Saturn gives the diligence to finish the task against all odds ˆ strive with all heart and soul... In matters of gains follow the honest path of Jupiter and in expenses the frugality of Saturn for optimum growth in savings " . Best regards, Sarbani Rath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2007 Report Share Posted April 15, 2007 Jaya Jagannatha Dear Shailesh, Namaste 1. No jyotish or Guru is above Parasara. We cannot take shelter behind Guru or Parampara to go against the principles of BPHS. If one says that any 'specific' sutra appears to be interpolated, let him/ her prove it logically, by applying the accepted jyotish rules. Sanjay ji also has repeatedly mentioned that. Regards, - Shailesh Well said! Thank you. We can however, take shelter behind our spiritual Guru as he is the direct link to the Supreme. Love, Swee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2007 Report Share Posted April 15, 2007 Jaya Jagannatha Dear Rafal, Namaste Please refer to Padma Purana, Uttarakhanda about Bhauma/ Mars. Visti is wrong, so accept it, please. Love, Swee Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme <varahamihira > 14 Apr 2007 04:28:42 -0700 <varahamihira > Re: |Sri Varaha| Karka for VIth house hare rama krsna Dear Sarbaniji, Even in Serbija it was this dispute in one of the lectures of Zoranji (or His student) where Vistiji objected that Mangal is not the primary karaka of the sixth bhava. Vistiji teaches this often in his mp3-jaimini-session and in one of the latest lectures of Sanjayji Ive heard the same, which confirmed Vistiji teachings. Best is to ask Sanjayji and the discussion will be finalized. More to Shaileshji: Regarding the Shastra : often even in classics authorities contradicts each other, I understand that Parasara is author of Visnu Purana. But for example if You open the Horary chapters then sometimes authors say that seventh shows the theft, while the parampara also teaches that its sixth bhava (enemy) and seventh is more used to regain lost things (prasna tantra). Sometimes even classics says about other authors opinion (often rsis like Garga etc) Saravali often talks about Yavana's opinion. All this is clarified by Parampara. And without the Parampara there is no real benefit to this SJC because everyone has this books and commentaries. Parampara gives key through mantra, and reason through knowledge in descending process. Regards, Rafal Gendarz SJC Guru www.rohinaa.com <http://www.rohinaa.com> (+48) 503 44 18 18 Sarbani Sarkar Rath napisa³(a): Shri Brahmadaru Smarami Dear Shailesh, Even in COVA, he discusses the multiple karakas of the 6th house, that is Mars, Saturn and Mercury. Both in the JD article and in COVA he is discussing multiple karakas for the bhavas. BUT there is also one primary karaka for each house. And that is where the debate is coming. Now in his writings, Sanjayji has nowhere mentioned that Saturn is the primary karaka. Parasara has clearly mentioned it is Mars. It makes sense to me as both the 3rd and 6th houses are houses of parakrama. And the notion of enemies and battling them, whether external or internal enemies like Shadripus, can be quite nicely explained by Mars. Ask Rafal and Sanjay P whether they remember if Sanjayji clearly stated that Saturn is the primary karaka for the 6th house. Because in his writings he hasn't. Best Regards, Sarbani Sarkar Rath http://sarbani.com <http://sarbani.com/> Shailesh C Chadha [scchadha] Saturday, April 14, 2007 2:48 PM varahamihira Re: |Sri Varaha| Karka for VIth house || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Narayanaya || Namaste Sarbani, Thanks for your clarification - and the very relevant quotes from Sanjay ji. After all, the whole discussion arose as to when it was held out that ONLY Saturn in the Karaka for VIth house. Even Sanjay ji does not hold that view - you have just re-confirmed that. And Guru ji will the last person to teach any thing contrary to BPHS. Other than the above, I had only two points of disagreement - and although they arose out of this particular thread, they do apply to other discussions as well. 1. No jyotish or Guru is above Parasara. We cannot take shelter behind Guru or Parampara to go against the principles of BPHS. If one says that any 'specific' sutra appears to be interpolated, let him/ her prove it logically, by applying the accepted jyotish rules. Sanjay ji also has repeatedly mentioned that. 2. No planet is uni-dimensional. They change their naunces depending upon the totality of chart. Let us not make sweeping statements about any planet. Hopefully, the controversy will close with your clarifications. Regards, - Shailesh - sarbani3062002 <sarbani varahamihira Saturday, April 14, 2007 11:57 AM Re: |Sri Varaha| Karka for VIth house Dear Shailesh, In his website, Sanjayji has an article called the Path of the Karakas, which was earlier published in JD, October 2003 issue. Relevant portions are given below in case it helps you and others to clarify. Please note he is talking of multiple karakas for each of the house and he is not talking of the primary karaka here. So from this paper one can assume that he is talking of Saturn and Mars in the same way he is a talking of Jupiter and Sun for the 9th house and Sun, Mercury, Jupiter and Saturn for the 10th house, Jupiter and Saturn for the 11th house and Moon and Mercury for the 4th house. Secondly, do keep in mind when we are talking of Saturn with reference to the 6th house, it is with a connotation of the 'serving' aspect of Saturn. Hence we see servants, pets, service from the 6th house, all of which are linked to Saturn while Mars shows the parakrama in every aspect like war, fighting spirit, litigations, battles, conflicts. Nevertheless Mars is mentioned by Parasara as the primary karaka for the 6th house as it is the bhava of parakrama along with the 3rd house. Now, from what I gather between your and Rafal's talk is that perhaps the confusion crept in because of the discussion on the Shadripus which are seen from the 6th house. Shadripu literally means the Six Enemies. Another name for the 6th house is Ripu Bhava. These Six Enemies are the internal enemies, which the human mind is battling with constantly. These six enemies are the vices which corrupt our senses and I think they can be explained by botb Mars and Saturn. " we are advised to follow the path of the käraka to ensure that we prosper in activities related to a house...every house has many significators and a wise man follows the path of the significators in all activities concerning the house... " The sixth house deals with enemies for which Mars advises a show of strength, merciless subjugation and destruction at all times while the other activity of service is signified by Saturn showing the path of sheer hard work... Sun signifying the ninth house demands obedience of the laws and doing one's duty while Jupiter advises faith to the preceptor and sincerity in devotion... The tenth house has four significators. The Sun (king) determines the work – accept it graciously; Mercury determines the learning – pay attention and learn everything there is to learn; Jupiter gives the intelligence for innovation, planning and execution – use it freely; Saturn gives the diligence to finish the task against all odds – strive with all heart and soul... In matters of gains follow the honest path of Jupiter and in expenses the frugality of Saturn for optimum growth in savings. Best regards, Sarbani Rath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2007 Report Share Posted April 15, 2007 || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Narayanaya || Namaste Swee, Yes, & No to "We can however, take shelter behind our spiritual Guru as he is the direct link to the Supreme." Or, shall I say, Yes with two riders! Spiritual Guru is for spiritual guidance. And, even if he was to give directions on non-spiritual matters, it would be for receipents personal applications - subjective teachings. Hope you agree. Regards, - Shailesh - Swee Chan varahamihira Sunday, April 15, 2007 2:59 PM Re: |Sri Varaha| Karka for VIth house Jaya JagannathaDear Shailesh,Namaste 1. No jyotish or Guru is above Parasara. We cannot take shelter behind Guru or Parampara to go against the principles of BPHS. If one says that any 'specific' sutra appears to be interpolated, let him/ her prove it logically, by applying the accepted jyotish rules. Sanjay ji also has repeatedly mentioned that. Regards, - ShaileshWell said! Thank you. We can however, take shelter behind our spiritual Guru as he is the direct link to the Supreme.Love,Swee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 16, 2007 Report Share Posted April 16, 2007 || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Narayanaya || Namaste Anna, If you will excuse my toungue in cheek, " laziness is the mother of all inventions. " More seriously, I have only one objection to your statement " Always.Hard work is expression of weakness, not the cause for it. " - it is to the inclusion of the word ALWAYS. JU & SA are, in a way, complimentary - they can be called two sides of the same coin. If JU in dignity is the knowledge(Dhi), SA is the orderliness(Dharma). Please note the root for both is the same. A weak JU may lead to varios excesses, a weak SA to grief. Strength and weakness are two facets of MA. Regards, - Shailesh On 13 Apr 2007 07:39:55 -0700, A.R. <bonamente108 wrote: Hi Shailesh, Rafal, Hard work-weakness, excellent point. Hard work compensate for weakness. If for ex, Ju is strong, we'll be able to meet our objectives easier, no need for 'sheer hard work'. Or, in other words, the lower education-the more hard work, the lower intelligence- the more hard work. Not much is noble in hard work, it's the sign of some weakness. and compensation. Always.Hard work is expression of weakness, not the cause for it. Regards, Anna Shailesh Chadha <scchadha wrote: || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Narayanaya || Namaste Rafal, Yes, of course there is a link between Hardwork and Weakness. Excess of hardwork may lead to temporary weakness; on the otherhand Weakness leads to inability to undertake hardwork. But how is this fact relevant to the thread - which is about primary significator for the 6th house? And how does this fact over-rule the teachings of BPHS, which teachs that Mars is the significator of 6th house. Later savants may have added Saturn - and it could be in line with your line of reasoning about shad-ripus. Even then, at best, Saturn can be described as a co-significator. No teacher; or arguement can be greater that Parasara's teachings; at best it indicates our own ignorance - or inability to correctly decipher Parasara's teachings. Regards, - Shailesh. On 13 Apr 2007 00:28:50 -0700, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme > wrote: +om namo bhagavate vasudevaya+Dear Shaileshji, NamaskarThere is a link between hard work and weakness, as the hard work is demanded when the objective is not realised. All shadripu have its own significations and has karaka(venus-kama, mercury-jelousy, mars-anger, ketu-moha etc) and own bhava (2-kama,3-krodha etc). Now this will be more clear when we learn about 1) nakshatra's & 2) lord of the year (samvatsara is represented by Sani), in these scheme we see that Nakshatra of Jupiter will show area of mastership & strength while the Sani will show our weakness. This is teaching of my Guruji. Hope this helps. RegardsRafal Gendarzwww.rohinaa.com Visit Your Group Finance It's Now Personal Guides, news, advice & more. Y! Messenger Make free calls Call PC-to-PC worldwide- free! Mail Get on board You're invited to try the all-new Mail Beta. .. -- Shailesh C Chadha#18A, St#11, Lane#2, East Marredpally, Secunderabad [AP] - 5000 026, INDIATel:+91 40-27733478(O);27737779 ® (Cell) +91 984 999 4837- Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Those who want to be SUCCESSFUL will find a way. Those who don't will find an EXCUSE.________________________________ Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Answers. -- Shailesh C Chadha #18A, St#11, Lane#2, East Marredpally, Secunderabad [AP] - 5000 026, INDIATel:+91 40-27733478(O);27737779 ® (Cell) +91 984 999 4837- Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Those who want to be SUCCESSFUL will find a way. Those who don't will find an EXCUSE.________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 16, 2007 Report Share Posted April 16, 2007 [ Hare Rama Krsna ]Dear Shailesh,I didn't understand you variation of "neccesity is the Mother of all invention". Jupiter and Saturn conjoined is said to be Brahma yoga - what is your experience of this?Anna:Hardworking people deserve the utmost respect. I don't see anything noble in not working - only pompous dignity.Respectfully,Michal[ Om Namo Narayanaya ]Shailesh Chadha <scchadhaTo: varahamihira Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 5:47:17 PMRe: |Sri Varaha| Karka for VIth house || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Narayanaya || Namaste Anna, If you will excuse my toungue in cheek, "laziness is the mother of all inventions." More seriously, I have only one objection to your statement "Always.Hard work is expression of weakness, not the cause for it." - it is to the inclusion of the word ALWAYS. JU & SA are, in a way, complimentary - they can be called two sides of the same coin. If JU in dignity is the knowledge(Dhi) , SA is the orderliness( Dharma). Please note the root for both is the same. A weak JU may lead to varios excesses, a weak SA to grief. Strength and weakness are two facets of MA. Regards, - Shailesh On 13 Apr 2007 07:39:55 -0700, A.R. <bonamente108@ > wrote: Hi Shailesh, Rafal, Hard work-weakness, excellent point. Hard work compensate for weakness. If for ex, Ju is strong, we'll be able to meet our objectives easier, no need for 'sheer hard work'. Or, in other words, the lower education-the more hard work, the lower intelligence- the more hard work. Not much is noble in hard work, it's the sign of some weakness. and compensation. Always.Hard work is expression of weakness, not the cause for it. Regards, Anna Shailesh Chadha <scchadha (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote: || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Narayanaya || Namaste Rafal, Yes, of course there is a link between Hardwork and Weakness. Excess of hardwork may lead to temporary weakness; on the otherhand Weakness leads to inability to undertake hardwork. But how is this fact relevant to the thread - which is about primary significator for the 6th house? And how does this fact over-rule the teachings of BPHS, which teachs that Mars is the significator of 6th house. Later savants may have added Saturn - and it could be in line with your line of reasoning about shad-ripus. Even then, at best, Saturn can be described as a co-significator. No teacher; or arguement can be greater that Parasara's teachings; at best it indicates our own ignorance - or inability to correctly decipher Parasara's teachings. Regards, - Shailesh. On 13 Apr 2007 00:28:50 -0700, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@ wp.pl > wrote: +om namo bhagavate vasudevaya+Dear Shaileshji, NamaskarThere is a link between hard work and weakness, as the hard work is demanded when the objective is not realised. All shadripu have its own significations and has karaka(venus- kama, mercury-jelousy, mars-anger, ketu-moha etc) and own bhava (2-kama,3-krodha etc). Now this will be more clear when we learn about 1) nakshatra's & 2) lord of the year (samvatsara is represented by Sani), in these scheme we see that Nakshatra of Jupiter will show area of mastership & strength while the Sani will show our weakness. This is teaching of my Guruji. Hope this helps. RegardsRafal Gendarzwww.rohinaa. com Visit Your Group Finance It's Now Personal Guides, news, advice & more. Y! Messenger Make free calls Call PC-to-PC worldwide- free! Mail Get on board You're invited to try the all-new Mail Beta. .. -- Shailesh C Chadha#18A, St#11, Lane#2, East Marredpally, Secunderabad [AP] - 5000 026, INDIATel:+91 40-27733478( O);27737779 ® (Cell) +91 984 999 4837____________ _________ _________ ____- Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Those who want to be SUCCESSFUL will find a way. Those who don't will find an EXCUSE.____________ _________ _________ __ Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Answers. -- Shailesh C Chadha #18A, St#11, Lane#2, East Marredpally, Secunderabad [AP] - 5000 026, INDIATel:+91 40-27733478( O);27737779 ® (Cell) +91 984 999 4837____________ _________ _________ ____- Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Those who want to be SUCCESSFUL will find a way. Those who don't will find an EXCUSE.____________ _________ _________ __ Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check out new cars at Autos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 16, 2007 Report Share Posted April 16, 2007 || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Narayanaya || Namaste Michal, Nothing 'Jyotish' in my remark. It was meant to be a joke (I said - <<tongue in cheek>>). Lazy people - I am one - are looking for short-cuts and may end up inventing new tools or devices. Re. BRAHMA YOGA, as per my knowledge, the Brahma Yoga is defined as: The extreme education, knowledge, wealth, health, familiarity and popularity are guaranteed if the anyone is gifted with Brahma yoga. The placement of Jupiter, Venus in the kendras to the ascendant, and to the lord of either to the 5th or to the 11th house. Another variation: HARIHARA BRAHMA YOGA Refers to 3 sets of planetary combinations: (i) Benefics placed in the 2nd, 8th, and 12th houses from the sign in which the lord of the 2nd house is placed; (ii) Jupiter, Moon, and Mercury posited in the 4th, 9th, and 8th houses from the sign where the lord of the 7th house is situated; and (iii) the Sun, Venus and Mars in the 4th, 10th, or 11 house from the ascendant lord. These combinations make the individual truthful, effective speaker, victorious, well-versed in religious scriptures, and philanthropic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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