Guest guest Posted April 18, 2007 Report Share Posted April 18, 2007 || Vyam Vyasa Devaya Namah || Respected Rafal ji, Please find my comments on your's below [rafal] Guruji said about Satya Jatakam. Karakatwa of sixth bhava doesnt say much about the core taste and colour of the bhava. That You must know. Satya Jatakam is one of the texts which I had mentioned. I meant that it can be mapped because it was given in the text as Sixth House as Ari Bhava and Mars is significator for enemies. [rafal] All dushtanas shows fruits of activities which are hard to get, if the lord is in the sixth then the enemies can take away this fruits and one have to work hard to built area of the bhava which lord is there, if the sixth lord is in other bhava then it shows which we treat as enemies. Therefore the trees with fruits are connected to Jupiter while the other outer planet which shows obstacles in getting it is Sani and thats the core of all dushtana's, the Sani is also the Upachaya (depending on the relation of lord) therefore it can show our effort and struggle (mangal) to overcome the weakness/struggle, therefore Mangal debilitates the Sani and the effort of Sura Graha can make one stronger as Mangal is the giver of Satva (strength). As stated in my previous mail, I am not interested in assumptions and I really require an evidence/dictums from any of the Sastras. And also we are not discussing what if the lord is there or not but why Mars or Saturn is Karaka for 6th House. The above explanation didnt answered my question on show me the evidences in Sastras on which Saturn had been mentioned as Karaka for Sixth House. Please find my question below. Can you please give me some excerpts from sastra's which are describing Saturn as a Karaka for Sixth House? And also give me a short explanations in terms of Bhava Karakatwas versus Karakas. [rafal] I repeat once again, there is (1) sastra and (2) parampara. Being in SJC means that You accept the teachings of the tradition. If thats the teaching of the tradition it must be accepted and THEN you must change Your perspective and with this new vision look at sastra's or seek the explanation and discuss these points. If You do the opposite then its not the parampara anymore as then the hierarchy id disturbed. If Sanjayji says its Sani, then what I can do with my understanding of sanksrit, classics and all that - that demands a real study which can take Your ten years, I put weightage to my time and the Guru gives shortcuts in our way to Jyotish which normally takes few lifetimes. Of course there are some people which question Sanjayji words and follow own opinion, thats their way of understanding. I do agree there is Sastra and Parampara. If I am not wrong Parampara will start with a person who learns Sastra and then teaches it to his disciples. So Parampara should be in lines with a Sastra and should not deviate from it. A Guru may give you shortcuts to be more efficient to reach your way. But if he teach you the wrong shortcut by mistake, you can reach your destiny. All Respected Gurus in this forum kindly forgive me. My intension is not criticize any guru, but I just gave an example to clearly understand my opinion. I heard in many of Sanjay Rath ji's lectures : He used ask his disciples to question him WHY in case one had not understood why that bhava or graha performs a stipulated function. It's our problem if we dont ask him WHY Mars is not considered as Primary Karaka? Are there any dictums or logic associated to strengthen this view? [rafal] Sani has many karakatwas, Sun is also responsible for hard work. I do agree, but I repeat that Hardwork is not associated with 6th bhava. It is the tool used to overcome 6th House karakatwas. Instead the energy required to do hardwork is Mars. [rafal] The blind faith is not so bad when the source is authoritative but the reason must be used always, only change the proportion. A Source might be authoritative but must also be authenticated. Blind faith is not good always. In case if guru told something wrong and disciples follow it there is a potential problem of spreading the wrong message in parampara incase if that disciple doesnt ask guru WHY when he got a doubt. Regards, Upendra Agnihotram sohamsa , Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme wrote:*hare rama krsna*Dear UpendraComments below.Regards,Rafal GendarzSJC Guruwww.rohinaa.com(+48) 503 44 18 18upendra_agni napisa?(a):>> || Om Vyam Vyasa Devaya Namah ||>> Respected Rafal ji, Namaskar.>> I have given you references from the Sastra's for which on Mars can> be a significator of Sixth House with a map of enemies w.r.t Ari> bhava stated in all of the texts that I gave.>[rafal] Guruji said about Satya Jatakam. Karakatwa of sixth bhava doesnt say much about the core taste and colour of the bhava. That You must know.>>> Can you please give me some excerpts from sastra's which are> describing Saturn as a Karaka for Sixth House? And also give me a> short explanations in terms of Bhava Karakatwas versus Karakas.>[rafal] All dushtanas shows fruits of activities which are hard to get, if the lord is in the sixth then the enemies can take away this fruits and one have to work hard to built area of the bhava which lord is there, if the sixth lord is in other bhava then it shows which we treat as enemies. Therefore the trees with fruits are connected to Jupiter while the other outer planet which shows obstacles in getting it is Sani and thats the core of all dushtana's, the Sani is also the Upachaya (depending on the relation of lord) therefore it can show our effort and struggle (mangal) to overcome the weakness/struggle, therefore Mangal debilitates the Sani and the effort of Sura Graha can make one stronger as Mangal is the giver of Satva (strength).>>> To be honestly I am not at all interested in discussions (Tarka> Samvada on shad-ripus and the other stuff)which was not mentioned in> sastra's as it dont solve the current problem and we should stay> focused on what we are discussing instead of devaiting from it in> different ways with our own assumptions and linking it with the> current topic.>[rafal] I repeat once again, there is (1) sastra and (2) parampara. Being in SJC means that You accept the teachings of the tradition. If thats the teaching of the tradition it must be accepted and THEN you must change Your perspective and with this new vision look at sastra's or seek the explanation and discuss these points. If You do the opposite then its not the parampara anymore as then the hierarchy id disturbed. If Sanjayji says its Sani, then what I can do with my understanding of sanksrit, classics and all that - that demands a real study which can take Your ten years, I put weightage to my time and the Guru gives shortcuts in our way to Jyotish which normally takes few lifetimes. Of course there are some people which question Sanjayji words and follow own opinion, thats their way of understanding.>>> To be honestly there was no ** hardwork ** related to Sixth house in> any of the jyotish classicals. Its the work one have to perform to> overcome sixth house karakatwas if I am not wrong.>[rafal] Sani has many karakatwas, Sun is also responsible for hard work.>>> According to my knowledge ** if Guru was mistaken it doesnt> necessarily mean that the Sastra and Sastra Karta (who wrote that> sastra) are wrong **.>[rafal] The blind faith is not so bad when the source is authoritative but the reason must be used always, only change the proportion.>>> That all depends on the level of the perception and time of> perception of the Guru.The perception levels change from time to> time. And also we should not forget that the Guru is also a student> forever.>> Forgive me if I meant anything wrong or if any sentence hurted you.>> Regards,> Upendra Agnihotram>> sohamsa@ .com <sohamsa%40>, > Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@ ...>> wrote:> >> > *hare rama krsna*> >> > Dear Upendra,> >> > I think this will not solve the problem, as we all agree that> there are> > two karakas - Sani and Mars, the problem is which is primary> Karaka? So> > the first quesion should be WHAT TYPE OF ARGUMENT WE ALL ACCEPT AS> > FINAL? Still the sastra will count the Sani and Mangal karakatwa> reg> > sixth bhava and there is no reason to think that even if they are> more> > attributed to Mangal then its primary. The number doesnt mean> much, THE> > CORE MEAN MUCH. How to see the core of the house per Sastra?> >> >> > Regards,> > Rafal Gendarz> > SJC Guru> > www.rohinaa. com> > (+48) 503 44 18 18> >> > upendra_agni napisa?(a):> > >> > > Respected Gurus,> > >> > > In order to strenghten my comments on Mars as Karaka for VI> House,> > >> > > An Excerpt from BPHS 7th Chapter.> > >> > > 37-38. Names of Bhavas. Thanu, Dhan, Sahaj, Bandhu, Putr, Ari,> > > Yuvati, Randhr, Dharm, Karma,Labh and Vyaya are in order the> names> > > of Bhavas. I explained these briefly and leave it to you> > > to grasp more, according to your intelligence. As delivered by> Lord> > > Brahma, some further information is added thus (i.e. in the> > > following verses).> > >> > > Excerpt from Phaladeepika> > >> > > Ch1-13. --- The sixth house deals with debts, arms, thieves,> wounds,> > > diseases, enemies, paternal relations, battle, wicked acts, sins,> > > fear and humilialtion.> > > Ch2-3. All about one's strength (physical and mental), products> > > produced from the earth, qualities of the brothers and sisters,> > > cruelty, battle, courage, antagonism, the fire of the kitchen,> gold,> > > kinsmen, weapons, thieves, enemies, enthusiasm, sexual> intercourse> > > with another man's wife, falsehood, prowess, high thinking, sin,> > > wounds, and acquisition of the position of a commander-in- chief> > > should be ascertained from Mars.> > > In other words Mars is the signiflcator of these matters.> > >> > > Excerpt from Brighu Sutras:> > >> > > Sixth House> > > Sickness, diseases, nursing, food, service, employees,> subordinates> > > or servants,> > > debts, cattle, tenants, enemies, maternal uncle, miserliness,> > > intense anguish,> > > litigation etc.> > >> > > >From Brihat Jataka of varaha mihira> > >> > > Stanza 15:> > > The twelve houses from lagna have been given the following names:> > > (1) Thanu, (2) Kutumba,Putra, (6) Ari, (7) Patni, (8) Marana, (9)> > > Shubha, (10) Aspada, (11) Aaya, and (12) Ripha. 10th and 11th> houses> > > from lagna, while the rest are Apachayas. Some say that these> should> > > Stanza 16:Kalya, Swa, Vikrama, Griha, Pratibha, Kshata,> Chitthotha,> > > Randhra, Guru, Mana, Bhava, second, third, etc., houses,> > > respectively. The fourth and eighth from lagna are technically> > > called goes under the name of Dyuna and the tenth is Agnya.> > >> > > >From Satya Jataka from Chapter 2> > >> > > 3. The Mars:> > > 1. Mars is reddish in colour. He has a youthful form. His body is> > > lean and slender at the waist His head is square. His gaze is> fierce> > > and is directed upwards. His> > > height is seven yojanas.> > > 2. Temperament : By nature Mars is very cruel. He is fickle-> minded> > > and ferocious.> > > He is rash in his actions but is extremely generous. His body is> > > warm.> > > 3. Guna: Mars represents rajasa guna.> > > 4. Direction: Mars rules the southern direction.> > > 5. Rays: Mars has five rays.> > > 6. Age: His age is four years.> > > 7. Grain: Dal and red grains.> > > Other Significations:> > > 8. He represents thick red colour, fire, bricks, power, thorny> > > trees, wild animals,mosquitoes, bugs, sheep, bones, brothers,> lands,> > > houses, anger, war,instruments, thieves, marrow of the bone,> bitter> > > taste, energy, prowess, sin,wounds, battles, enemies, daring> acts,> > > cruelty and torture, roaming in forests,bronze, golden waist-> string,> > > pomp and show and a house on fire.> > > 9. Strength: He is strong during the night and during the dark> lunar> > > half.> > > (See The Mars Significations mapped to enemies here)> > >> > > >From Sankethanidhi> > >> > > 52-53 . Of several parts of the body of Kalapurusha, or time-> > > personified, beginning with the head, the sixth is the navel and> > > this is allotted to the sixth house. Sixth is also the house of> > > animals. All good and bad about pet animals belonging to the> native> > > should beconsidered from this house. The other matters which> concern> > > 6th house are cruel actions, diseases, ears maternal uncle> enemies,> > > anxiety, suspicions. If the lord of 6th depowerful, owns a> benefic> > > sign and be associated with or aspected by benefics auspicious> > > results may be expected from this house. The results would not be> > > favourable if there be malefic influence on 6th house.> > >> > > >From Horasara> > >> > > The twelve Bhavas from Lagn are, respectively, called as: Tanu,> Dhan> > > (Artha), Sahaj,Bandhu, Putr, Ari, Yuvati (Kalatra), Randhr> (Nidhana) ,> > > Dharm, Karm (Kriya), Labh(Aya) and Vyaya (Vigama).> > >> > > Notes: The meanings of the 12 synonyms given above are: body,> > > wealth, co-born, relatives,children, enemies, wife, death,> > > righteousness, or good work (one of the four ends of> > > human existence), action, income and loss.> > >> > > By now you might have seen VI Bhava is mentioned as Ari Bhava and> > > this Sanskrit Word means Enemy. (Reference> > > http://sanskritdocu ments.org/ dict/dictall. txt> > > <http://sanskritdocu ments.org/ dict/dictall. txt > <http://sanskritdocuments.org/dict/dictall.txt>> or any Sanskrit> > > Dictionary)> > >> > > Almost all Who wrote Books on this Great Jyotish Sastra agreed> that> > > the significator for Enemies is Mars.> > >> > > Hope this helps for future discussion.> > >> > > Regards,> > > Upendra> > >> > > > > > <srijagannat h%40. com>, "upendra_agni"> > > <upendra.agni@ ...> wrote:> > >> > > || Om Vyam Vyasa Devaya Namah ||> > >> > > Respected All,> > >> > > If I am not wrong though each word in this world can have many> > > meanings and implications, but there will be a meaning which is> well> > > known to all.> > >> > > And I personally hope there are no words in Jyotish classicals> are> > > written for hiding the orginal message in secret form as these> are> > > not kavya's or drama's. It had been clearly written in a common> > > man's> > > language at the time of BPHS or any jyotish classical was> written. I> > > request you not to forget that even a lay man in Indian culture> used> > > to understand and talk in Sanskrit before Moghulai's and British> > > Rule.> > >> > > Sanskrit Word Ripu primarily stands for the meaning Satru (i.e.> > > Enemy). You can see its usage in many Sanskrit and Telugu Kavya's> > > and> > > most of the sansrit text's like Raghuvamsam etc.,> > >> > > I would like to ask Visti ji, Rafal ji to forgive me for going> > > against there comments.> > >> > > Though we can extract many things from a Bhava in various> > > perspectives we will see it for a prime (intution)reason. The> rest> > > depends upon what we want to see in the horoscope or what our> > > perception is?.> > >> > > And for my knowledge His Holiness Great Sage Parasara had written> > > the> > > bhavas in this context. See an excerpt from BPHS.> > >> > > 37-38. Names of Bhavas. Thanu, Dhan, Sahaj, Bandhu, Putr, Ari,> > > Yuvati, Randhr, Dharm, Karma,Labh and Vyaya are in order the> names> > > of Bhavas. I explained these briefly and leave it to you> > > to grasp more, according to your intelligence. As delivered by> Lord> > > Brahma, some further information is added thus (i.e. in the> > > following verses).> > >> > > Sanskrit ARI means Enemy without any doubt. So Sage Parasara had> > > mentioned the Karaka as Mars for Enemies to Sixth House.> > >> > > I request Mr. Tarun to keepin mind to use words in effective> manner.> > > We are not as knowledged as Sage Parasara to criticize his> texts.And> > > not to forget that Sage Parasara got this knowledge directly from> > > Lord Brahma the CREATOR.> > >> > > If you can remind Mr. B.V.Raman words, "Those who know Astrology> can> > > only indicate in a way what will take place in future. Who else,> > > except the Creator Brahma,can say with certainty what will> > > definitely> > > happen ?"> > >> > > I personally hope that we should not take our own meanings> > > associated> > > with the words to suffice our Self (Aham) and we are not> supposed to> > > talk the un-necessary things in this context when we are> discussing> > > about just Karaka's and 6th Bhava.> > >> > > It will be a great thing if one could give an example why Sani is> > > Karaka for 6th House or Mars is Karaka for sixth house?> > >> > > In almost all jyothish texts though some have agreed and some> others> > > not, when coming to the enemies point of view all stand on a> single> > > boat that Mars is Karaka for Enemies.> > >> > > I would request the Honorable Gurus like Sanjay Rath or PVR or> > > Partha> > > who had learnt Jyothish from their childhood and who had deeply> > > thought in this perspective would comment in this thread in-> order to> > > put the discussion to an end.> > >> > > I request you all to forgive me if I had hurt any of your> thoughts> > >> > > > > > <srijagannat h%40. com>, Rafal Gendarz> <starsuponme@ >> > > wrote:> > > >> > > > *hare rama krsna*> > > >> > > > Dear Tarun,> > > >> > > > Or best we can wait for Sanjayji BPHS commentary;)> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Regards,> > > > Rafal Gendarz> > > > SJC Guru> > > > www.rohinaa. com> > > > (+48) 503 44 18 18> > > >> > > > ~Tarun~ napisaÅ,(a):> > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > Even i trust BPHs but just it creates doubt because sanksrit> has> > > lakhs> > > > > of words and their meanings. and just to convert it in> english's> > > few> > > > > words so I had said that.> > > > >> > > > > Actually i meant that we must go through the sanksrit version> > > instead> > > > > of its english translation.> > > > >> > > > > " Ripu " are those which want to take your life and want you> to> > > get> > > > > dead...so it is related to 8th house in that form.> > > > >> > > > > Regards> > > > > Tarun> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> > > --- End forwarded message ---> > >> > >> >>>--- End forwarded message --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 20, 2007 Report Share Posted April 20, 2007 , rama narayanan <sree88ganesha wrote: SARVAM GYANANANDAMAYAM AUM GURUBYO NAMAH Dear Visti & Shailesh, Namaste. May i write a few lines in this regard? The great sage while introducing the names of grahas has given the name for Mars as Mangala. When he goes on to give the karakas for the bhavas he has used kuja for the 3rd and bhauma for the 6th bhava. Kuja gives a hint about base acts and bhauma gives hint about earthly/connected to earth. Both these words give a hint about Mars. Lord of Kalapurusha lagna Mars finds himself in inimical and earthly Kanya kshetra. Both Mars and the sign are tamasic and gives a clear cut hint about the possible outcome of enemity from the 6th bhava. This means that Mars is ill-at-ease in Kanya and does not care,nay, does not know as to what will happen by his reactions/responses to the impact the sign has on him. Thus Mars can easily arouse anger/krodha when confronted. While actions are a result of freewill the reactions are Karmic. As per yaksha prasna it is the dharma who causes the Sun to set. The 9th bhava causes the Sun which had manifested in the 1st bhava to set in the 7th bhava.This gives a clue that it is the eighth bhava which can cause the inactivitiy pertaining to the 12th bhava to come to a halt by causing karmic sensations/impulses in the 6th bhava. Thus Sani who is the karaka of 8th house is the karana/cause for the Karaka Mars to create waves relating to 6th bhava.(anger is a reaction and hence karmic). Everybody here knows that a planet plays a role by lording a rasi wherein another planet gets exalted. That planet which plays the role of lording a rasi is called as the peeta/base station. For example let us take Sun. He gets exalted in the sign Mesha the lord of which is Mars. Here Mars becomes the peeta. Let us now list out the karakas for all the bhavas and their peetas. Bhaava Karaka Karaka peeta 1. Soorya Mars 2. Guru Moon 3. Kuja Sani 4. Soma Sukra 5. Guru Moon 6. Bhauma Sani 7. Sita Guru 8. Sani Sukra 9. Guru Moon 10. Chandrasuta Buda 11. Jiva Moon 12. Manda Sukra (the nomenclature of the karaka grahas are worth noting) To summarise we have: 1.1st bhava - karaka is Sun - Karaka peeta is Mangala 2.2nd/5th/9th/11th - Karaka is Guru - Karaka peeta is Chandra 3.3rd/6th - Karaka is Mars - Karaka peeta is Sani 4.4th - Karaka is Moon - Karaka peeta is Sukra 5.7th - Karka is Sukra - Karaka peeta is Guru 6.8th/12th - Karaka is Sani - Karaka peeta is Sukra 7.10th - Karaka is Buda - Karaka peeta is Buda Six peetas/ Shan matha:- Chandra peeta is associated with the worship of Vishnu/Narayana. Mangala peeta is associated with the worship of Surya. Buda peeta is associated with the worship of Ganapathi. Guru peeta is associated with the worship of Shiva. *Sukra peeta* is associated with the worship of Sakthi. Sani peeta is associated with the worship of Skandha. Please note that Sukra peeta has a say over Moon and Sani. Worship of Mother is the direct solution for sadesathi related issues. The development of Maatru vatsalya/jeeva karunya can help a great deal. As the peetas have control over the regulation of the kshetra they own, tradition banks upon them for restoration of things which have gone out of gear/control. i am sorry for the length of the mail. Ever ready to learn. Best wishes. May Mother Bless. Astrologically & spiritually yours, p.s.ramanarayanan. Visti Larsen <visti wrote: हरे राम कृषà¥à¤£à¥¥ Dear Shailesh, Namaskar Just to clarify: The event of Sanjayji teaching that Saturn is the main-karaka of the sixth house is not one isolated to Serbia. When i travelled with him throughout 2002-2005 he has always maintained this in the discussions reg. karaka. It had become such an ingrain part of jyotish for me that i taught the same to others as well. It was almost as a given. Rafal trust the tradition, which is good but we must all ask: Why is the tradition right? and thereby question and make our foundation stronger. I guess for Rafal this discussion is just to trivial. Btw. how do you seek to use this knowledge of the main-karaka? Yours sincerely, -- Visti Larsen - SJC Guru Jaimini SJC - Denmark email: visti For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: http://srigaruda.com Shailesh C Chadha wrote:  || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Narayanaya || Namaste Rafal, I think no useful purpose is going to be served by going through the classics. You have very clearly expressed your total disregard for the sastras when you replied to Upenrda saying: << I repeat once again, there is (1) sastra and (2) parampara. Being in SJC means that You accept the teachings of the tradition. If thats the teaching of the tradition it must be accepted and THEN you must change Your perspective and with this new vision look at sastra's or seek the explanation and discuss these points. If You do the opposite then its not the parampara anymore as then the hierarchy id disturbed. If Sanjayji says its Sani, then what I can do with my understanding of sanksrit, classics and all that - that demands a real study which can take Your ten years, I put weightage to my time and the Guru gives shortcuts in our way to Jyotish which normally takes few lifetimes. Of course there are some people which question Sanjayji words and follow own opinion, thats their way of understanding.>> And let me make it clear - you have no respect for Sanjay ji's words either. Sarbani, and others, have given extensive quotes in the past from COVA and various papers of Sanjay ji where he has clearly mentioned as Mars to be the Karaka for 6th house. But, unfortunately, you are fixated on what you and Visti say was mentioned by Sanjay ji in Serbia. At that point of time, you and Visti diverted the discussion to Shad-ripus. Then, when I produced qoutes and arguments to show that shad- ripus are in the domain of 8th house, you say that you are not interested in shad-ripus. What exactly do you want to prove? Are you aware that Parampara and Guru are to take one to the path of truth, not to negate the truth. Where sastras are silent, Parampara and Guru are paramount. But where Sastras are clear and specific, no Parampara or Guru can, or should, go against it. In such a case, if it cannot be proved that the sastras are corrupted, one may have to conlude that the teachings of such a Guru or Parampara are flawed. Can any one in these lists doubt the sincerety of Narsimha Rao to SJC. Yet, can you recall how many times he has questioned Sanjay ji and persisted till he received the correct explanation? Not that I equate my self to Narsimha but I do intend to be a true seeker of knowledge and truth. In Indian traditions, that is what we are taught. Now, it is up to you to decide whether you are a seeker of truth or a blind-follower. Regards, - Shailesh   - Rafal Gendarz Wednesday, April 18, 2007 3:18 PM Re: [Om Krishna Guru] Re: Karaka for sixth house hare rama krsna Dear Shailesh, Yes...so to conclude we have two things to do (1) seek further in classics (2) ask Sanjayji for explanation..I dont have any more arguments here. Regards, Rafal Gendarz SJC Guru www.rohinaa.com (+48) 503 44 18 18 Shailesh C Chadha napisaÅ‚(a):  || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Narayanaya || Namaste Rafal, Lets forget the unpleasantness and take this discussion forward in a healthy and meaningful way. Ultimately, we are here to learn and thats what our focus should be. Please also understand that I have the utmost respect for my Guru and I am sure no true Guru will purposely teach what is wrong. And, the highest of the Gurus have always encouraged their shishyas to go out and seek the truth, they too accept that they are human and are always ready to acknowledge their errors. If Sanjay ji has changed his view-point from what he has mentioned in COVA and elsewhere, he should have a good reason for the same and he has to reveal the same. Till such time, I suggest we go with the classics. And there are very strong reasons to do so, as I have mentioned in my mails to Visti and Upendra has, in his latest mail. Regards, - Shailesh - Rafal Gendarz Wednesday, April 18, 2007 1:15 PM Re: [Om Krishna Guru] Re: Karaka for sixth house hare rama krsna Dear Shailesh, Yes, its all depends on Pranamas we accept. For our logic the anumana is important and for our faith the sabda element is important, I recognized that You respect the logic in the big way. I do the same but in the different proportion, therefore for me it was weird that Sanjayji words are not final. Therefore there is big benefit to Your discusion with sanskrit terms, philosophy of enemies vs flaws and all that, but if we dont accept authority of Guru then I dont see the difference between parampara and open forums in the western world where the hierarchy of pranama is completely different. Dont take me as blindsided, dogmatic - its simply the issue of proportion.I had no intention to put bad emotion or low standart of discussion so forgive me any bad usage of words. Regards, Rafal Gendarz SJC Guru www.rohinaa.com (+48) 503 44 18 18 Shailesh C Chadha napisaÅ‚(a):  || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Narayanaya ||  Namaste Rafal, Agreed to all your points - except: - It is wrong to say I cannot take agruements; I am open to all reasonable and logical agruments. - In case of a contradiction between BPHS and Prasna Marga (or any other classic), we HAVE to accept BPHS as the ultimate authority; else our entire Jyotish teachings will collapse. Regards, - Shailesh - Rafal Gendarz Wednesday, April 18, 2007 5:29 AM Re: [Om Krishna Guru] Re: Karaka for sixth house hare rama krsna Dear Shailesh, Its sad that You cant take this arguments as they sounds nice and reasonable. So the problem is somewhere else.. Sanjayji in the lecture about diseases takes the division on diseases from Prasna Marga and uses this in Natal. In the same place we do with Badhak and other things. In Pransa Marga are many things which are general in nature - like marriages (also in natal), ashtakavarga, remedies, division of madness etc. Regards, Rafal Gendarz SJC Guru www.rohinaa. com (+48) 503 44 18 18 Shailesh C Chadha napisaÅ‚(a):  || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Narayanaya ||  Namaste Visti, Let me start by saying that I am saddened with your response. I do not expect a SJC guru to brush-off some very relevant quotes from classics as mere statistics. If that was to be so, then why do we study them? Is it only for the purpose of selectively quoting from them when it suits our line of argument and dismiss the contrary as irrelevant or unreliable? I am sorry but that is not the way any healthy discussion can be carried out - it just shows " assumed " intellectual arrogance and it is the first step towards decline in learning. And, to me the bottomline is that BPHS is the supreme jyotish fointain-head; every thing else is a commentary or a learning-aid. Unless logically proved other-wise, no dictum or parampara or Guru can over-ride BPHS teachings. I do not have to remind you that " Sri Jagannath Center (SJC) was established in India with the objective of teaching jyotish in the tradition of maharishis like Parasara and Jaimini. " Incidentally, neither you, nor Rafal has offered any logical agrument to contradict what I have quoted. Prasna Marga is just that - applicable only on Prasna - so please do not use it for natal charts. Regards, - Shailesh - Visti Larsen Tuesday, April 17, 2007 8:25 PM Re: [Om Krishna Guru] Re: Karaka for sixth house हरे राम कृषà¥à¤£à¥¥ Dear Shailesh, Namaskar Rafal has a point which also answers this question. All bhavas have a root signification and that is why there is one MAIN karaka for each bhava. I.e. we are suffering from the six weaknesses because we could not keep our purity in the past life times. I.e. because we were too prone to anger in this life our anger will be tested. Because we were too attached to money in the past we will be put in situations where taking money can carry serious problems. The root cause is our lack of purity or excess of sin/ripu. Thus MANY MANY classics refer to the sixth bhava by the name 'ripu' and from it we get diseases, accidents, fights, enemies and all the other significations explained by Parasara. These are however the negative indications and are all indicated by Saturn as it is he who carries our dustha karma from many lifetimes and gives it to us in the form of dukha or sorrow. Now you qoute many classics, but mere statistics won't help us. Especially the word 'sin' can have different meanings in sanskrit. Prasna Marga is to my knowledge the only one who has attempted to make this clear differentiation for us when describing the nature of diseases. He states: rogästu dvividhä jïeyä nijägantuvidbhedetaù Translation: Two types of diseases (roga) are to be known. Nija and ä gantu are the two. Harihara later explains that nija is seen from the eighth and fifth houses, whilst agantu is seen from the sixth and badhaka houses. Nija dosha specifically refers to ones OWN karma/dosha. It refers to the bad karma we have caused unto others/the world. Agantuka refers to the karma caused upon oneself... i.e. how you treated yourself For this reason it is taught in the tradition that the eighth lords RASI will show the place of the disease arising out of nija dosha, whereas the sixth lords BHAVA will show the diseases arising out of ones weaknesses/sin. .. I.e. the Rasis show the world/God whilst the bhavas are created by the individual. Deep rooted perspective indeed. I hope the above makes the paramparas perspective much clearer. Karaka literally means: 'kara' acting/doer; 'ka' does. I.e. the one who acts on behalf of another actor/doer. The closest English word is significator. By making the karaka of a house strong you will overcome the issues associated with that house. I.e. If the digestive fire is good (sun) then the health will be perfect (lagna). If you keep celibacy or purity (mars or some say mercury) then the weaknesses will go away (sixth house). But... this is very idealistic. Most people have the sins already and are acting on behalf of them, and really what they need to do is renounce them and be strong enough to carry them before projecting them on others. This act of carrying the sins is that of Saturn and by making Saturn auspicious the native will never see sorrow and easily cross this life. For this reason Saturn acts as a very strong contender for the karakatva of the sixth house, and this is how the tradition treats it. So recite Om Namo Bhagavate Akuparaaya| and be strong to carry your sins. I hope this clarifies everything. Yours sincerely, -- Visti Larsen - SJC Guru Jaimini SJC - Denmark email: visti (AT) srigaruda (DOT) com For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: http://srigaruda. com Shailesh Chadha wrote: || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Narayanaya ||  Namaste Visti, You have partly answered the question your self. BPHS mentions 8th house for RIPU and your focus is SHAD-RIPU - provided GC Sharmas version is accurate(as you said); Just as you have mentioned to Tarun - it has to be decided after thorough comparison. So, lets leave that aside for the moment. I will twist your question slightly: is the sixth house confined ONLY to our internal weaknesses (saturn) and the various problems associated with it? Is it right to disregard all other significations of 6 th house and consider only shad-ripus? Please also consider the following - BPHS: Ch. 17. Effects of 6th House 2. Ulcers/Bruises. Should 6ths Lord be in 6th itself, or in Lagna, or 8th, there will be ulcers, or bruises on the body. The RÄÅ›i, becoming 6th House, will lead to the knowledge of the concerned limb. Ch. 19. Effects of 8th House 2. Short Life. Should 8ths Lord join Lagnas Lord, or a malefic and be in 8th itself, the native will be short lived. Ch. 24. Effects of the House Lords 1.Effects of Lagnas Lord in Various Houses If Lagnas Lord is in 6th House and related to a malefic the native will be devoid of physical happiness and will be troubled by enemies, if there is no benefic Aspect. If Lagnas Lord is in 8th House, the native will be an accomplished scholar, be sickly, thievish, be given to much anger, be a gambler and will join others wives 61. Effects of 6ths Lord in Various Houses If 6ths Lord is in 1st House, the native will be sickly, famous, inimical to his own men, rich, honourable, adventurous and virtuous. 85. Effects of 8ths Lord in Various Houses If 8ths Lord is in 1st House, the native will be devoid of physical felicity and will suffer from wounds. He will be hostile to gods and Brahmins. Satya Jataka The sixth house signifies diseases, troubles from enemies, worries, injuries, litigation, sorrows, maternal uncle, injuries, armies, mental worries and legal involvements. The eighth house signifies longevity, misfortunes, sins, debts, enmity, death, difficulties, impediments, grief and unhappiness resulting from sins committed in previous births, sudden and untimely death and enemies Mars: He represents thick red colour, fire, bricks, power, thorny trees, wild animals, mosquitoes, bugs, sheep, bones, brothers, lands, houses, anger, war, instruments, thieves, marrow of the bone, bitter taste, energy, prowess, sin, wounds, battles, enemies, daring acts, cruelty and torture, roaming in forests, bronze, golden waist-string, pomp and show and a house on fire. Saturn: indicates evil nature, cunningness, impediments, wickedness, servants, mean acts, thieves, old dilapidated houses, bitter fruits, forests, fruits with thick skin, wild flowers, trees full of thorns, bamboos, palmyra trees, margosa trees and wild animals. Daivagyna Vallabha Ill health, bad state, enemies, servants, cruel deeds, heavy actions, witchcraft applied by enemies with an intention of killing enemies, doubts, wars, uncle, buffaloes, diseases, etc. are to be considered from the sixth house. Longevity and enmity, death, ruling powers, strife, quarrels, cleft, quarrels among relatives, hatred, places difficult to approach, fort, destruction of wife and enemies, crossing of rivers etc. are to be seen from the eighth house. In most of the above quotes, sins and similar weaknesses have been associated with 8 th house. Furthermore, Sixth house is part of Artha Trikona †" would not a Rajasic planet be a better significator?  Regards,  - Shailesh On 17 Apr 2007 00:45:42 -0700, Visti Larsen <visti (AT) srigaruda (DOT) com> wrote: हर े राम कृषà¥à¤£à¥¥ Dear Shailesh, Namaskar I checked BPHS and found the translation in line with what you have said. However when analyzing the sanskrit something becomes very prevailent. --sixth house-- mÄtulÄntakaÅ›aá¹kÄnÄá¹ Å›atrÅ«á¹Å›caiva vraṇÄdikÄn| sapalnÄ«mÄtaraá¹ cÄpi á¹£aá¹£á¹habhÄvÄnnirÄ«ká¹£yet||7|| Here the word 'shatru' has been used to indicate the enemies which leaves no doubt that the reference is to enemies. --eighth house-- ÄyÅ« raṇa ripuḥ cÄpi durgaá¹ mï…—tadhanaá¹ tathÄ| gatyanukÄdikaá¹ sarvaá¹ paÅ›yedraá¹dhrÄdvicaká¹£aṇaḥ|| Here Sharma has translated 'ripu' as 'enemies' which is only PARTLY correct. Here are the possible options from Monier Williams:  mfn. deceitful , treacherous , false RV. m. a deceiver , cheat , rogue ib. an enemy , adversary , foe Mn. MBh. & c. As you can see this does not specifically indicate enemy, but rather anyone who can deceive you or USE your weaknesses. Further Sharma does comment that in the Bombay edition of BPHS this sloka doesn't mention enemies at all. Btw. most scripts accept the word 'ripu' as a well known indicator of the sixth house. Parasara has just further shown that this can also be seen in the eighth house which is fine. o Reg. Mars vs. Saturn for the sixth house karakatva o Satyacharya also mentions Saturn whilst Parasara mentions Mars. The question is do we accept that the sixth house shows our internal weaknesses (saturn) and because of these the various problems in life arise. Or do we accept that the sixth house shows our external enemies (Mars)? Yours sincerely, -- Visti Larsen - SJC Guru Jaimini SJC - Denmark email: visti (AT) srigaruda (DOT) com For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: http://srigaruda. com Shailesh Chandra Chadha wrote: || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Narayanaya ||  Namaste Visti,  Your explanation, of equating 6th house to shad-ripus is not in line with the jyotish principles.  Shad-ripus are six enemies - the enemies within. - or weaknesses  Weakness, and even enmity, is indicated by 8th bhava, not 6th.  As per BPHS: Indications of Ari Bhava. Maternal uncle, doubts about death, enemies, ulcers, step-mother etc. are to be estimated from Ari Bhava.  Indications of Randhr Bhava. Randhr Bhava indicates longevity, battle, enemies, forts, wealth of the dead and things, that have happened and are to happen (in the past and future births).  Therefore, you are correct is associating Saturn with Shad-ripus, and weaknesses, but do not assign the 6th bhava karakatwa to Saturn.  BPHS assigns it to Mars and we have no reason, or any logical explanation to go against it.  Regards,  - Shailesh , Visti Larsen <visti@> wrote: > > ??? ??? ?????? > > Dear Tarun, Namaskar > I have just come home from Serbia and saw your mail. > > Some words from the Serbian Orthodox priests have been repeating > themselves in my mind. The greatest sign of strength is not in winning > great battles but in overcoming our own weaknesses. And these weaknesses > are those which compell us to incur sin. The main cause of all the > battles, addictions, and other weaknesses arising from the sixth house > is ripu or sin. There are six sins: Kaama, Krodha, Lobha, Moha, Madha > and Matsyara. > > A good excercise is to look them up and asign one among the six rajasic > and tamasic planets to these. > > To overcome these the Orthodox church advises two necessary paths or > wings to 'fly' to God: 1) Fasting and 2) praying. The weapon/sword of > prayer is the /brianica/ or rosary and is a vital part of the persons > progression away from the sixth house. So also the 5th house (prayer) > and 12th house (fasting) are the houses of loss (12th) and death/maraka > (7th) from the sixth house of sin. > > The main cause of sin is SATURN, and for this reason the main karaka for > the sixth is Saturn. The sub-karakas are dependant on the type of sin. > Mars causes krodha or anger, and as a result of anger coming from others > or the native themself the native gets into battles, courtcases, fights, > etc... all this is Mars. Its a separate issue that these problems may > arise or be instigated by the other sins such as lobha (greed) or kaama > (lust). But, they are all sins. > > Yours sincerely, > > -- > Visti Larsen - SJC Guru > Jaimini SJC - Denmark > email: visti@ <visti@ ... > For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: http://srigaruda.com > < http://srigaruda.com> > > Tarun wrote: > > > > Dear sir, > > > > Karak for sixth house depends on condition of the native too. > > 6th house is the house of satya. > > because if we only think the SURVIVAL of FITTEST theory ...it is > > not always correct > > so in my view if person has to go to courts then saturn. > > if person has to fight in battle then mars > > if he needs to be courageous then sun > > if he needs mind to win the disputes > > > > so on... > > > > Please correct me where i went wrong. > > > > Regards > > > > Tarun > > > > > > < %40. com>, " ~Tarun~ " tarun.virgo@ > > wrote: > > > > > > Dear sir, > > > > > > Karak for sixth house depends on condition of the native too. > > > 6th house is the house of satya. > > > because if we only think the SURVIVAL of FITTEST theory ...it is > > not always correct > > > so in my view if person has to go to courts then saturn. > > > if person has to fight in battle then mars > > > if he needs to be courageous then sun > > > if he needs mind to win the disputes > > > > > > so on... > > > > > > Tarun correct me where i went wrong. > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > Tarun > > > > > > > > > - > > > kishore patnaik > > > vedic astrology > > < vedic astrology%40g roups.com> ; > > ancient_indian_ astrology > > < % 40. com> ; > > Astro_Remedies > > < Astro_Remedies%40gro ups.com> ; > > < % 40. com> ; > > lalkitab < lalkitab%40. com> ; > > naastrology < naastrology% 40. com> ; SJC- > > Africa < Africa%40. com> ; > > < % 40. com> ; > > sohamsa@ .com < sohamsa%40. com> ; > > Vedic Astrology- Hyderabad > > < Vedic Astrology-Hyderabad% 40. com> > > > Monday, April 16, 2007 10:57 PM > > > [Om Krishna Guru] Karaka for sixth house > > > > > > > > > dear all, > > > > > > there was an interesting topic going on right now in varaha > > mihira group Many of us are not members in this group and hence, > > for their benefit, I have copied and pasted all the messages into a > > word document and am enclosing it here. > > > > > > I am sure the members will start an interesting thread on this > > topic in this group. > > > > > > Members of Varaha mihira group may kindly cross check if i have > > missed on any message in this thread. > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > kishore patnaik > > > > > > > >  -- Shailesh C Chadha #18A, St#11, Lane#2, East Marredpally, Secunderabad [AP] - 5000 026, INDIA Tel:+91 40-27733478( O);27737779 ®       (Cell) +91 984 999 4837 ____________ _________ _________ ____- Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Those who want to be SUCCESSFUL will find a way. Those who don't will find an EXCUSE. ____________ _________ _________ __ Check out what you're missing if you're not on Messenger --- End forwarded message --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 20, 2007 Report Share Posted April 20, 2007 , rama narayanan <sree88ganesha wrote: SARVAM GYANANANDAMAYAM AUM GURUBYO NAMAH Dear Visti & Shailesh, Namaste. May i write a few lines in this regard? The great sage while introducing the names of grahas has given the name for Mars as Mangala. When he goes on to give the karakas for the bhavas he has used kuja for the 3rd and bhauma for the 6th bhava. Kuja gives a hint about base acts and bhauma gives hint about earthly/connected to earth. Both these words give a hint about Mars. Lord of Kalapurusha lagna Mars finds himself in inimical and earthly Kanya kshetra. Both Mars and the sign are tamasic and gives a clear cut hint about the possible outcome of enemity from the 6th bhava. This means that Mars is ill-at-ease in Kanya and does not care,nay, does not know as to what will happen by his reactions/responses to the impact the sign has on him. Thus Mars can easily arouse anger/krodha when confronted. While actions are a result of freewill the reactions are Karmic. As per yaksha prasna it is the dharma who causes the Sun to set. The 9th bhava causes the Sun which had manifested in the 1st bhava to set in the 7th bhava.This gives a clue that it is the eighth bhava which can cause the inactivitiy pertaining to the 12th bhava to come to a halt by causing karmic sensations/impulses in the 6th bhava. Thus Sani who is the karaka of 8th house is the karana/cause for the Karaka Mars to create waves relating to 6th bhava.(anger is a reaction and hence karmic). Everybody here knows that a planet plays a role by lording a rasi wherein another planet gets exalted. That planet which plays the role of lording a rasi is called as the peeta/base station. For example let us take Sun. He gets exalted in the sign Mesha the lord of which is Mars. Here Mars becomes the peeta. Let us now list out the karakas for all the bhavas and their peetas. Bhaava Karaka Karaka peeta 1. Soorya Mars 2. Guru Moon 3. Kuja Sani 4. Soma Sukra 5. Guru Moon 6. Bhauma Sani 7. Sita Guru 8. Sani Sukra 9. Guru Moon 10. Chandrasuta Buda 11. Jiva Moon 12. Manda Sukra (the nomenclature of the karaka grahas are worth noting) To summarise we have: 1.1st bhava - karaka is Sun - Karaka peeta is Mangala 2.2nd/5th/9th/11th - Karaka is Guru - Karaka peeta is Chandra 3.3rd/6th - Karaka is Mars - Karaka peeta is Sani 4.4th - Karaka is Moon - Karaka peeta is Sukra 5.7th - Karka is Sukra - Karaka peeta is Guru 6.8th/12th - Karaka is Sani - Karaka peeta is Sukra 7.10th - Karaka is Buda - Karaka peeta is Buda Six peetas/ Shan matha:- Chandra peeta is associated with the worship of Vishnu/Narayana. Mangala peeta is associated with the worship of Surya. Buda peeta is associated with the worship of Ganapathi. Guru peeta is associated with the worship of Shiva. *Sukra peeta* is associated with the worship of Sakthi. Sani peeta is associated with the worship of Skandha. Please note that Sukra peeta has a say over Moon and Sani. Worship of Mother is the direct solution for sadesathi related issues. The development of Maatru vatsalya/jeeva karunya can help a great deal. As the peetas have control over the regulation of the kshetra they own, tradition banks upon them for restoration of things which have gone out of gear/control. i am sorry for the length of the mail. Ever ready to learn. Best wishes. May Mother Bless. Astrologically & spiritually yours, p.s.ramanarayanan. Visti Larsen <visti wrote: हरे राम कृषà¥à¤£à¥¥ Dear Shailesh, Namaskar Just to clarify: The event of Sanjayji teaching that Saturn is the main-karaka of the sixth house is not one isolated to Serbia. When i travelled with him throughout 2002-2005 he has always maintained this in the discussions reg. karaka. It had become such an ingrain part of jyotish for me that i taught the same to others as well. It was almost as a given. Rafal trust the tradition, which is good but we must all ask: Why is the tradition right? and thereby question and make our foundation stronger. I guess for Rafal this discussion is just to trivial. Btw. how do you seek to use this knowledge of the main-karaka? Yours sincerely, -- Visti Larsen - SJC Guru Jaimini SJC - Denmark email: visti For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: http://srigaruda.com Shailesh C Chadha wrote:  || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Narayanaya || Namaste Rafal, I think no useful purpose is going to be served by going through the classics. You have very clearly expressed your total disregard for the sastras when you replied to Upenrda saying: << I repeat once again, there is (1) sastra and (2) parampara. Being in SJC means that You accept the teachings of the tradition. If thats the teaching of the tradition it must be accepted and THEN you must change Your perspective and with this new vision look at sastra's or seek the explanation and discuss these points. If You do the opposite then its not the parampara anymore as then the hierarchy id disturbed. If Sanjayji says its Sani, then what I can do with my understanding of sanksrit, classics and all that - that demands a real study which can take Your ten years, I put weightage to my time and the Guru gives shortcuts in our way to Jyotish which normally takes few lifetimes. Of course there are some people which question Sanjayji words and follow own opinion, thats their way of understanding.>> And let me make it clear - you have no respect for Sanjay ji's words either. Sarbani, and others, have given extensive quotes in the past from COVA and various papers of Sanjay ji where he has clearly mentioned as Mars to be the Karaka for 6th house. But, unfortunately, you are fixated on what you and Visti say was mentioned by Sanjay ji in Serbia. At that point of time, you and Visti diverted the discussion to Shad-ripus. Then, when I produced qoutes and arguments to show that shad- ripus are in the domain of 8th house, you say that you are not interested in shad-ripus. What exactly do you want to prove? Are you aware that Parampara and Guru are to take one to the path of truth, not to negate the truth. Where sastras are silent, Parampara and Guru are paramount. But where Sastras are clear and specific, no Parampara or Guru can, or should, go against it. In such a case, if it cannot be proved that the sastras are corrupted, one may have to conlude that the teachings of such a Guru or Parampara are flawed. Can any one in these lists doubt the sincerety of Narsimha Rao to SJC. Yet, can you recall how many times he has questioned Sanjay ji and persisted till he received the correct explanation? Not that I equate my self to Narsimha but I do intend to be a true seeker of knowledge and truth. In Indian traditions, that is what we are taught. Now, it is up to you to decide whether you are a seeker of truth or a blind-follower. Regards, - Shailesh   - Rafal Gendarz Wednesday, April 18, 2007 3:18 PM Re: [Om Krishna Guru] Re: Karaka for sixth house hare rama krsna Dear Shailesh, Yes...so to conclude we have two things to do (1) seek further in classics (2) ask Sanjayji for explanation..I dont have any more arguments here. Regards, Rafal Gendarz SJC Guru www.rohinaa.com (+48) 503 44 18 18 Shailesh C Chadha napisaÅ‚(a):  || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Narayanaya || Namaste Rafal, Lets forget the unpleasantness and take this discussion forward in a healthy and meaningful way. Ultimately, we are here to learn and thats what our focus should be. Please also understand that I have the utmost respect for my Guru and I am sure no true Guru will purposely teach what is wrong. And, the highest of the Gurus have always encouraged their shishyas to go out and seek the truth, they too accept that they are human and are always ready to acknowledge their errors. If Sanjay ji has changed his view-point from what he has mentioned in COVA and elsewhere, he should have a good reason for the same and he has to reveal the same. Till such time, I suggest we go with the classics. And there are very strong reasons to do so, as I have mentioned in my mails to Visti and Upendra has, in his latest mail. Regards, - Shailesh - Rafal Gendarz Wednesday, April 18, 2007 1:15 PM Re: [Om Krishna Guru] Re: Karaka for sixth house hare rama krsna Dear Shailesh, Yes, its all depends on Pranamas we accept. For our logic the anumana is important and for our faith the sabda element is important, I recognized that You respect the logic in the big way. I do the same but in the different proportion, therefore for me it was weird that Sanjayji words are not final. Therefore there is big benefit to Your discusion with sanskrit terms, philosophy of enemies vs flaws and all that, but if we dont accept authority of Guru then I dont see the difference between parampara and open forums in the western world where the hierarchy of pranama is completely different. Dont take me as blindsided, dogmatic - its simply the issue of proportion.I had no intention to put bad emotion or low standart of discussion so forgive me any bad usage of words. Regards, Rafal Gendarz SJC Guru www.rohinaa.com (+48) 503 44 18 18 Shailesh C Chadha napisaÅ‚(a):  || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Narayanaya ||  Namaste Rafal, Agreed to all your points - except: - It is wrong to say I cannot take agruements; I am open to all reasonable and logical agruments. - In case of a contradiction between BPHS and Prasna Marga (or any other classic), we HAVE to accept BPHS as the ultimate authority; else our entire Jyotish teachings will collapse. Regards, - Shailesh - Rafal Gendarz Wednesday, April 18, 2007 5:29 AM Re: [Om Krishna Guru] Re: Karaka for sixth house hare rama krsna Dear Shailesh, Its sad that You cant take this arguments as they sounds nice and reasonable. So the problem is somewhere else.. Sanjayji in the lecture about diseases takes the division on diseases from Prasna Marga and uses this in Natal. In the same place we do with Badhak and other things. In Pransa Marga are many things which are general in nature - like marriages (also in natal), ashtakavarga, remedies, division of madness etc. Regards, Rafal Gendarz SJC Guru www.rohinaa. com (+48) 503 44 18 18 Shailesh C Chadha napisaÅ‚(a):  || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Narayanaya ||  Namaste Visti, Let me start by saying that I am saddened with your response. I do not expect a SJC guru to brush-off some very relevant quotes from classics as mere statistics. If that was to be so, then why do we study them? Is it only for the purpose of selectively quoting from them when it suits our line of argument and dismiss the contrary as irrelevant or unreliable? I am sorry but that is not the way any healthy discussion can be carried out - it just shows " assumed " intellectual arrogance and it is the first step towards decline in learning. And, to me the bottomline is that BPHS is the supreme jyotish fointain-head; every thing else is a commentary or a learning-aid. Unless logically proved other-wise, no dictum or parampara or Guru can over-ride BPHS teachings. I do not have to remind you that " Sri Jagannath Center (SJC) was established in India with the objective of teaching jyotish in the tradition of maharishis like Parasara and Jaimini. " Incidentally, neither you, nor Rafal has offered any logical agrument to contradict what I have quoted. Prasna Marga is just that - applicable only on Prasna - so please do not use it for natal charts. Regards, - Shailesh - Visti Larsen Tuesday, April 17, 2007 8:25 PM Re: [Om Krishna Guru] Re: Karaka for sixth house हरे राम कृषà¥à¤£à¥¥ Dear Shailesh, Namaskar Rafal has a point which also answers this question. All bhavas have a root signification and that is why there is one MAIN karaka for each bhava. I.e. we are suffering from the six weaknesses because we could not keep our purity in the past life times. I.e. because we were too prone to anger in this life our anger will be tested. Because we were too attached to money in the past we will be put in situations where taking money can carry serious problems. The root cause is our lack of purity or excess of sin/ripu. Thus MANY MANY classics refer to the sixth bhava by the name 'ripu' and from it we get diseases, accidents, fights, enemies and all the other significations explained by Parasara. These are however the negative indications and are all indicated by Saturn as it is he who carries our dustha karma from many lifetimes and gives it to us in the form of dukha or sorrow. Now you qoute many classics, but mere statistics won't help us. Especially the word 'sin' can have different meanings in sanskrit. Prasna Marga is to my knowledge the only one who has attempted to make this clear differentiation for us when describing the nature of diseases. He states: rogästu dvividhä jïeyä nijägantuvidbhedetaù Translation: Two types of diseases (roga) are to be known. Nija and ä gantu are the two. Harihara later explains that nija is seen from the eighth and fifth houses, whilst agantu is seen from the sixth and badhaka houses. Nija dosha specifically refers to ones OWN karma/dosha. It refers to the bad karma we have caused unto others/the world. Agantuka refers to the karma caused upon oneself... i.e. how you treated yourself For this reason it is taught in the tradition that the eighth lords RASI will show the place of the disease arising out of nija dosha, whereas the sixth lords BHAVA will show the diseases arising out of ones weaknesses/sin. .. I.e. the Rasis show the world/God whilst the bhavas are created by the individual. Deep rooted perspective indeed. I hope the above makes the paramparas perspective much clearer. Karaka literally means: 'kara' acting/doer; 'ka' does. I.e. the one who acts on behalf of another actor/doer. The closest English word is significator. By making the karaka of a house strong you will overcome the issues associated with that house. I.e. If the digestive fire is good (sun) then the health will be perfect (lagna). If you keep celibacy or purity (mars or some say mercury) then the weaknesses will go away (sixth house). But... this is very idealistic. Most people have the sins already and are acting on behalf of them, and really what they need to do is renounce them and be strong enough to carry them before projecting them on others. This act of carrying the sins is that of Saturn and by making Saturn auspicious the native will never see sorrow and easily cross this life. For this reason Saturn acts as a very strong contender for the karakatva of the sixth house, and this is how the tradition treats it. So recite Om Namo Bhagavate Akuparaaya| and be strong to carry your sins. I hope this clarifies everything. Yours sincerely, -- Visti Larsen - SJC Guru Jaimini SJC - Denmark email: visti (AT) srigaruda (DOT) com For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: http://srigaruda. com Shailesh Chadha wrote: || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Narayanaya ||  Namaste Visti, You have partly answered the question your self. BPHS mentions 8th house for RIPU and your focus is SHAD-RIPU - provided GC Sharmas version is accurate(as you said); Just as you have mentioned to Tarun - it has to be decided after thorough comparison. So, lets leave that aside for the moment. I will twist your question slightly: is the sixth house confined ONLY to our internal weaknesses (saturn) and the various problems associated with it? Is it right to disregard all other significations of 6 th house and consider only shad-ripus? Please also consider the following - BPHS: Ch. 17. Effects of 6th House 2. Ulcers/Bruises. Should 6ths Lord be in 6th itself, or in Lagna, or 8th, there will be ulcers, or bruises on the body. The RÄÅ›i, becoming 6th House, will lead to the knowledge of the concerned limb. Ch. 19. Effects of 8th House 2. Short Life. Should 8ths Lord join Lagnas Lord, or a malefic and be in 8th itself, the native will be short lived. Ch. 24. Effects of the House Lords 1.Effects of Lagnas Lord in Various Houses If Lagnas Lord is in 6th House and related to a malefic the native will be devoid of physical happiness and will be troubled by enemies, if there is no benefic Aspect. If Lagnas Lord is in 8th House, the native will be an accomplished scholar, be sickly, thievish, be given to much anger, be a gambler and will join others wives 61. Effects of 6ths Lord in Various Houses If 6ths Lord is in 1st House, the native will be sickly, famous, inimical to his own men, rich, honourable, adventurous and virtuous. 85. Effects of 8ths Lord in Various Houses If 8ths Lord is in 1st House, the native will be devoid of physical felicity and will suffer from wounds. He will be hostile to gods and Brahmins. Satya Jataka The sixth house signifies diseases, troubles from enemies, worries, injuries, litigation, sorrows, maternal uncle, injuries, armies, mental worries and legal involvements. The eighth house signifies longevity, misfortunes, sins, debts, enmity, death, difficulties, impediments, grief and unhappiness resulting from sins committed in previous births, sudden and untimely death and enemies Mars: He represents thick red colour, fire, bricks, power, thorny trees, wild animals, mosquitoes, bugs, sheep, bones, brothers, lands, houses, anger, war, instruments, thieves, marrow of the bone, bitter taste, energy, prowess, sin, wounds, battles, enemies, daring acts, cruelty and torture, roaming in forests, bronze, golden waist-string, pomp and show and a house on fire. Saturn: indicates evil nature, cunningness, impediments, wickedness, servants, mean acts, thieves, old dilapidated houses, bitter fruits, forests, fruits with thick skin, wild flowers, trees full of thorns, bamboos, palmyra trees, margosa trees and wild animals. Daivagyna Vallabha Ill health, bad state, enemies, servants, cruel deeds, heavy actions, witchcraft applied by enemies with an intention of killing enemies, doubts, wars, uncle, buffaloes, diseases, etc. are to be considered from the sixth house. Longevity and enmity, death, ruling powers, strife, quarrels, cleft, quarrels among relatives, hatred, places difficult to approach, fort, destruction of wife and enemies, crossing of rivers etc. are to be seen from the eighth house. In most of the above quotes, sins and similar weaknesses have been associated with 8 th house. Furthermore, Sixth house is part of Artha Trikona †" would not a Rajasic planet be a better significator?  Regards,  - Shailesh On 17 Apr 2007 00:45:42 -0700, Visti Larsen <visti (AT) srigaruda (DOT) com> wrote: हर े राम कृषà¥à¤£à¥¥ Dear Shailesh, Namaskar I checked BPHS and found the translation in line with what you have said. However when analyzing the sanskrit something becomes very prevailent. --sixth house-- mÄtulÄntakaÅ›aá¹kÄnÄá¹ Å›atrÅ«á¹Å›caiva vraṇÄdikÄn| sapalnÄ«mÄtaraá¹ cÄpi á¹£aá¹£á¹habhÄvÄnnirÄ«ká¹£yet||7|| Here the word 'shatru' has been used to indicate the enemies which leaves no doubt that the reference is to enemies. --eighth house-- ÄyÅ« raṇa ripuḥ cÄpi durgaá¹ mï…—tadhanaá¹ tathÄ| gatyanukÄdikaá¹ sarvaá¹ paÅ›yedraá¹dhrÄdvicaká¹£aṇaḥ|| Here Sharma has translated 'ripu' as 'enemies' which is only PARTLY correct. Here are the possible options from Monier Williams:  mfn. deceitful , treacherous , false RV. m. a deceiver , cheat , rogue ib. an enemy , adversary , foe Mn. MBh. & c. As you can see this does not specifically indicate enemy, but rather anyone who can deceive you or USE your weaknesses. Further Sharma does comment that in the Bombay edition of BPHS this sloka doesn't mention enemies at all. Btw. most scripts accept the word 'ripu' as a well known indicator of the sixth house. Parasara has just further shown that this can also be seen in the eighth house which is fine. o Reg. Mars vs. Saturn for the sixth house karakatva o Satyacharya also mentions Saturn whilst Parasara mentions Mars. The question is do we accept that the sixth house shows our internal weaknesses (saturn) and because of these the various problems in life arise. Or do we accept that the sixth house shows our external enemies (Mars)? Yours sincerely, -- Visti Larsen - SJC Guru Jaimini SJC - Denmark email: visti (AT) srigaruda (DOT) com For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: http://srigaruda. com Shailesh Chandra Chadha wrote: || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Narayanaya ||  Namaste Visti,  Your explanation, of equating 6th house to shad-ripus is not in line with the jyotish principles.  Shad-ripus are six enemies - the enemies within. - or weaknesses  Weakness, and even enmity, is indicated by 8th bhava, not 6th.  As per BPHS: Indications of Ari Bhava. Maternal uncle, doubts about death, enemies, ulcers, step-mother etc. are to be estimated from Ari Bhava.  Indications of Randhr Bhava. Randhr Bhava indicates longevity, battle, enemies, forts, wealth of the dead and things, that have happened and are to happen (in the past and future births).  Therefore, you are correct is associating Saturn with Shad-ripus, and weaknesses, but do not assign the 6th bhava karakatwa to Saturn.  BPHS assigns it to Mars and we have no reason, or any logical explanation to go against it.  Regards,  - Shailesh , Visti Larsen <visti@> wrote: > > ??? ??? ?????? > > Dear Tarun, Namaskar > I have just come home from Serbia and saw your mail. > > Some words from the Serbian Orthodox priests have been repeating > themselves in my mind. The greatest sign of strength is not in winning > great battles but in overcoming our own weaknesses. And these weaknesses > are those which compell us to incur sin. The main cause of all the > battles, addictions, and other weaknesses arising from the sixth house > is ripu or sin. There are six sins: Kaama, Krodha, Lobha, Moha, Madha > and Matsyara. > > A good excercise is to look them up and asign one among the six rajasic > and tamasic planets to these. > > To overcome these the Orthodox church advises two necessary paths or > wings to 'fly' to God: 1) Fasting and 2) praying. The weapon/sword of > prayer is the /brianica/ or rosary and is a vital part of the persons > progression away from the sixth house. So also the 5th house (prayer) > and 12th house (fasting) are the houses of loss (12th) and death/maraka > (7th) from the sixth house of sin. > > The main cause of sin is SATURN, and for this reason the main karaka for > the sixth is Saturn. The sub-karakas are dependant on the type of sin. > Mars causes krodha or anger, and as a result of anger coming from others > or the native themself the native gets into battles, courtcases, fights, > etc... all this is Mars. Its a separate issue that these problems may > arise or be instigated by the other sins such as lobha (greed) or kaama > (lust). But, they are all sins. > > Yours sincerely, > > -- > Visti Larsen - SJC Guru > Jaimini SJC - Denmark > email: visti@ <visti@ ... > For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: http://srigaruda.com > < http://srigaruda.com> > > Tarun wrote: > > > > Dear sir, > > > > Karak for sixth house depends on condition of the native too. > > 6th house is the house of satya. > > because if we only think the SURVIVAL of FITTEST theory ...it is > > not always correct > > so in my view if person has to go to courts then saturn. > > if person has to fight in battle then mars > > if he needs to be courageous then sun > > if he needs mind to win the disputes > > > > so on... > > > > Please correct me where i went wrong. > > > > Regards > > > > Tarun > > > > > > < %40. com>, " ~Tarun~ " tarun.virgo@ > > wrote: > > > > > > Dear sir, > > > > > > Karak for sixth house depends on condition of the native too. > > > 6th house is the house of satya. > > > because if we only think the SURVIVAL of FITTEST theory ...it is > > not always correct > > > so in my view if person has to go to courts then saturn. > > > if person has to fight in battle then mars > > > if he needs to be courageous then sun > > > if he needs mind to win the disputes > > > > > > so on... > > > > > > Tarun correct me where i went wrong. > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > Tarun > > > > > > > > > - > > > kishore patnaik > > > vedic astrology > > < vedic astrology%40g roups.com> ; > > ancient_indian_ astrology > > < % 40. com> ; > > Astro_Remedies > > < Astro_Remedies%40gro ups.com> ; > > < % 40. com> ; > > lalkitab < lalkitab%40. com> ; > > naastrology < naastrology% 40. com> ; SJC- > > Africa < Africa%40. com> ; > > < % 40. com> ; > > sohamsa@ .com < sohamsa%40. com> ; > > Vedic Astrology- Hyderabad > > < Vedic Astrology-Hyderabad% 40. com> > > > Monday, April 16, 2007 10:57 PM > > > [Om Krishna Guru] Karaka for sixth house > > > > > > > > > dear all, > > > > > > there was an interesting topic going on right now in varaha > > mihira group Many of us are not members in this group and hence, > > for their benefit, I have copied and pasted all the messages into a > > word document and am enclosing it here. > > > > > > I am sure the members will start an interesting thread on this > > topic in this group. > > > > > > Members of Varaha mihira group may kindly cross check if i have > > missed on any message in this thread. > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > kishore patnaik > > > > > > > >  -- Shailesh C Chadha #18A, St#11, Lane#2, East Marredpally, Secunderabad [AP] - 5000 026, INDIA Tel:+91 40-27733478( O);27737779 ®       (Cell) +91 984 999 4837 ____________ _________ _________ ____- Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Those who want to be SUCCESSFUL will find a way. Those who don't will find an EXCUSE. ____________ _________ _________ __ Check out what you're missing if you're not on Messenger --- End forwarded message --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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