Postmortem studies on 100 charts, is it Jyotisham?

[Guest guest]

Dear Friends,

According to my study of BPHS AND Vishnu Puran ,Sage Parasara advocated Varsa-

this clearly means

seasonal calendar-i.e V.E.POINT  TO V.E.POINT-    this means 365.24219 daya

of year or

SIDEREAL YEAR OF 365.256363DAYS.

THE PURPOSE OF SAVAN YEAR OF 360 DAYS IS QUITE DIFFERENT , AND DEFINITELY FOR

NOT CALCULATING

DASA PERIODS.

Regards,

 

 G.K.GOEL

Ph: 09350311433

Add: L-409, SARITA VIHAR

NEW DELHI-110 076

INDIA

 

 

 

 

Sreenadh <sreesog

 

Monday, 5 May, 2008 5:14:53 PM

Re: Postmortem studies on 100 charts, is it

Jyotisham?

 

 

Dear Chandra hari ji,

  Take this simple example.

  DOB:  18 Nov 1971; 2.55 AM (Visakha Nakshatra; Virgo Lagna) Trivandrum.

  Marriage 24 Feb 2008

  Which is the Ayanamsa and Year Length that fits well, when used with

Vimsottari Dasa? It is due to numerous such examples that, I prefer True

Ayanamsa of 46 min more thn Lahari along with 360 days Savana year.  (You

know, to whom the data belongs to.)

    It is not due to any theoretical foundation or logic behind that I have

derived such  (absurd?) conclusions - but practical application/ matching of

events. Anyway I should agree that this conclusion is specific to Vimsottari

Dasa. 

   Another question that comes to mind is, If Parasara is the creator of

Vimsottari dasa system, and if he has suggested the use of 360 days Savana year

- should we not use it at least for Vimsottari Analysis?  May be as Neelam ji

might put it,  " Parasara may be using theoretically wrong Year length to look

at the planets, but he learnt to work with his colored glasses only. While

following his foot steps and the methodology he suggests, he may go wrong his

colored glasses are removed. If the colored glasses he suggests are not used,

we too may miss the correct path while following him; because almost all of his

descriptions would be based on his vision. "   Avoiding the colored glasses, or

jumping without rings would be good - but only when we have mastered enough. As

a simple student without much understanding, I would prefer the suggested ring,

even though would love to keep the mind open for all possibilities.

Love and regards,

Sreenadh

 

ancient_indian_ astrology, " chandra_hari18 "

<chandra_hari18@ ...> wrote:

>

>

> Dear Sreenadh,

>

> Any reference to 360 days as year by Parasara etc are mistaken adoption

> from ancient astronomy. As we see in Pancasiddhantika, Vasishta

> discussions, 'days' in fact meant solar degrees and not Savana days.

>

> Keep an open mind and study more data will be my suggestion.

>

> chandra hari

>

>

> ancient_indian_ astrology, " Sreenadh "

> sreesog@ wrote:

> >

> >

> > Dear Chandra hari ji,

> > I don't know whether 360 days Savana year has anything to do with

> > astronomy or not. But -

> > * For sure with practical experience of reading charts I know that use

> > of 360 days Savana year gives me better results.

> > * I also know that almost all the ancient astro classics (except

> > Phala deepika) supports 360 days Savana year for result derivation.

> > Due to both the above reasons, and also because I am more interested

> > in results and correct predictions than the logic and theory behind, I

> > prefer to use True Ayanamsa varient (46 min more than Lahari and NOT

> 44

> > min more than Lahari) and 360 day Savana year - irrespective of

> whether

> > you will call it ignorance or not.

> > Love and regards,

> > Sreenadh

> >

> > ancient_indian_ astrology, " chandra_hari18 "

> > chandra_hari18@ wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > > Dear Neelamhji,

> > >

> > > Any use of 360 days for year is simply ignorance of the very basics

> of

> > > astronomy and astrology. In sidereal astrology (nirayana) only

> choice

> > > for the year is 365.2563624 days. Every graha is bound to Sun and

> > solar

> > > revolution is reference and the arc is 360 degree. Lagnas also take

> > > circle of 360 degrees and not days. In 360 days sun travels only 355

> > > degrees and 5 degs are left out. How the dasa-bhuktis derived based

> on

> > > 360 degree revolutions of Moon and also involving 360 deg revls of

> > > planets, can manifest on an year less by 5 degrees?

> > >

> > > If anybody is using 360 days, its shows some handicap in thinking

> and

> > > reading. Savana year has nothing to do with Jyotisham. Only sidereal

> > > solar year has to be used. Some guy in the past may have speculated

> > for

> > > 360 days but it is wrong.

> > >

> > > chandra hari

> > >

> > >

> > > ancient_indian_ astrology, " neelam gupta "

> > > neelamgupta07@ wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear All,

> > > >

> > > > We are having here some very intense discussions between Renu ji

> and

> > > Chandra

> > > > Hari ji. I also feel that there is a point worth taking note of...

> > > >

> > > > We are all aware that there are n-number of ayanamsha options

> > > prescribed for

> > > > making and reading a birth chart. Every software programme also

> > > includes a

> > > > list of ayanamshas for our choice. We as learners are always

> > > perplexed,

> > > > first by the enormity of the subject itself and then by so many

> > > options

> > > > for....ayanamshas. ...dashas etc. Raman himself was such a great

> name

> > > in

> > > > astrology with an entirely different ayanamsha!

> > > >

> > > > We all also know that postmortem justifications are very easy to

> > make.

> > > Then

> > > > how do we ascertain what is right. Every school of thought will

> most

> > > > vociferously defend its own system. But somewhere we all know that

> > > there are

> > > > gaps and loose ends in our understanding. I also feel that we

> should

> > > keep

> > > > checking the charts through different ayanamshas, at least now we

> > can

> > > see

> > > > both Lahiri's and Chandra Hari's and try to arrive at our own

> > > conclusions.

> > > >

> > > > We are having this blind chart exercise where no one knows the

> > native.

> > > We

> > > > cannot call it a postmortem study. Let us begin our probe with

> this.

> > > > I would request all those who have participated to give the

> > ayanamsha

> > > > they've used for analysis. When collating the results for

> > correctness

> > > and

> > > > precision, we can get an idea about the correctness of ayanamsha

> > used

> > > also.

> > > >

> > > > Anyone who's able to put his finger precisely on more than one

> event

> > > of her

> > > > life within one pratyantar, may be considered as using fairly

> > correct

> > > > parameters.

> > > >

> > > > Later on, once we know the events, and thus agree on natal

> promise,

> > we

> > > can

> > > > ask everyone to delineate the timing of that event within one

> > > pratyantar

> > > > only. I can withhold the dates till that time. Unbiased views

> about

> > > such

> > > > blind charts may lead to much better understanding if we adopt an

> > open

> > > > policy....

> > > >

> > > > I shall appreciate if all the participants also submit:

> > > > 1) ayanamsha used

> > > > 2) year length for vimshottri dasha (365.25 or 360)

> > > >

> > > > Regards

> > > >

> > > > Neelam

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > 2008/5/4 renunw renunw@:

> > > >

> > > > > Dear Chandra Hari ji,

> > > > >

> > > > > You write with so much concern and deep feeling for a *true

> > cause*.

> > > I

> > > > > get your message.

> > > > >

> > > > > What I cannot understand is why and how K. N. Rao ji and his

> books

> > > > > became popular [i presume so...if I am not misinformed] if his

> > > research was

> > > > > baseless?? Why do most of the astrologers go for Lahiri and not

> > for

> > > > > Chandra Hari ayanamsa...may be in spite of knowing deep inside

> > them

> > > that

> > > > > Chandra Hari ayanams is more accurate??? Are good people misled

> in

> > > this era

> > > > > of evil and of immorality?

> > > > >

> > > > > In a postmortem, I feel that any ayanamsa should be able to

> > clarify

> > > the

> > > > > past events because one way or the other one can find even a

> > remote

> > > > > relationship among planets/dasas, which explains everything.

> Hence

> > I

> > > feel

> > > > > that post mortem is like doing a jigsaw puzzle. Only a child's

> > > > > play....Hence future predictions would be the most appropriate

> > test

> > > to find

> > > > > out which ayanamsa is correct.

> > > > >

> > > > > 'According to ancient precepts an astrologer should not touch

> the

> > > chart of

> > > > > a dead person "

> > > > >

> > > > > Ancient precepts reveal some sense.

> > > > >

> > > > > " Let us reverse the practice and publish our failed predictions

> > and

> > > > > analyze them to understand as to what we missed in making such

> > wrong

> > > > > analysis "

> > > > >

> > > > > If we fail ..the reason is we are blindfolded. Astrology should

> > have

> > > a

> > > > > deeper meaning than just looking out for future events in a

> > persons

> > > life.

> > > > > Surely, the ancient wise men did not contemplate so hard for

> days

> > > and days

> > > > > just to find a shastra which could reveal the future of an

> > > individual?? ?

> > > > > They wanted to teach us something more meaningful and I feel

> that

> > is

> > > what

> > > > > we miss here.

> > > > >

> > > > > blessings

> > > > >

> > > > > Renu

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology,

> " chandra_hari18 "

> > > > > chandra_hari18@ wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Renuji,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Jyotihsastram, most of the self styled champions do not

> > understand

> > > its

> > > > > > depths and the sacrifices that have gone into its development.

> > > Mostly

> > > > > > these guys speaks of one Parasara who is extolled as Rishi

> > because

> > > he

> > > > > > summarized the Hora and then Varahmihira who in known times

> (6th

> > > cent

> > > > > > CE) compiled the knowledge of those days. Today as computers

> > have

> > > become

> > > > > > available anyone can speculate on a chart without scientific

> > > training

> > > > > > and abuse the subject for making money and claiming

> Vachaspati.

> > > Are

> > > > > > they to be taken as idols?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > What about the great people Aryabhata, Brahmagupta, Lalla,

> > > Munjala,

> > > > > > Haridatta, Paramesvara, Bhaskara-I and II .., men of

> > unimaginable

> > > > > > credentials who served the cause of Jyotisha through

> painstaking

> > > studies

> > > > > > on astronomy? We don't know about the works of their people

> and

> > so

> > > we

> > > > > > have come to imagine that X, Y, Z are serving Jyotisha in some

> > > hi-fi

> > > > > > manner. Postmortem studies on 100 charts, is it Jyotisham?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Is there anyone who can predict by observing Swara? You can

> see

> > > some

> > > > > > prasna jargon in certain journals. Can any Prasna be complete

> > > without

> > > > > > nimitta and Swara? Why the modern researchers cannot predict

> the

> > > sex of

> > > > > > the child? With Rasi and mathematics none could have predicted

> > it

> > > > > > without the aid of Swara.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > What is the birth time? I know that it is 'first cry' and is a

> > > tantric

> > > > > > precept. But how it can be proved by research?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Computation became easy and it does not mean that research in

> > > Jyotisha

> > > > > > is now postmortem. According to ancient precepts an astrologer

> > > should

> > > > > > not touch the chart of a dead person. Is postmortem the only

> way

> > > for

> > > > > > astrological research? Where lies the true phenomenal,

> > operational

> > > basis

> > > > > > of Jyotisha?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > No research in Jyotisha is possible without corresponding

> > studies

> > > in

> > > > > > Yogasastra. But we must remember that grey beard and

> > > pseudospiritual

> > > > > > jargon are not the reflections of yogic vision in astrological

> > > studies.

> > > > > > It is my request that the group may seriously contemplate on

> the

> > > > > > limitations of postmortem studies and the possibility of

> > replacing

> > > it

> > > > > > with a live Jyotisham.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Yes, we need living Jyotisham. Experiencing the grahas and

> time,

> > > > > > experience of 'daivam'/destiny through the Siva svara, the

> > breath

> > > and

> > > > > > the tattvas. Jataka, Prasna, Nimitta and Swara must go hand in

> > > hand to

> > > > > > make a living Jyotisham.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Mortuary Jyotisham as is being produced in some journals must

> be

> > > > > > outrightly rejected as they are cooked up stories published

> for

> > > > > > enhancing one's personal prestige. A true astrologer should

> not

> > > claim of

> > > > > > any successful predictions in public. Let us reverse the

> > practice

> > > and

> > > > > > publish our failed predictions and analyze them to understand

> as

> > > to what

> > > > > > we missed in making such wrong analysis.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > chandra hari

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Dear Friends,

According to my study of BPHS AND Vishnu Puran ,Sage Parasara advocated Varsa- this clearly means

seasonal calendar-i.e V.E.POINT TO V.E.POINT- this means 365.24219 daya of year or

SIDEREAL YEAR OF 365.256363DAYS.

THE PURPOSE OF SAVAN YEAR OF 360 DAYS IS QUITE DIFFERENT , AND DEFINITELY FOR NOT CALCULATING

DASA PERIODS.

Regards,

 

G.K.GOELPh: 09350311433Add: L-409, SARITA VIHARNEW DELHI-110 076INDIA

Sreenadh <sreesog Sent: Monday, 5 May, 2008 5:14:53 PM Re: Postmortem studies on 100 charts, is it Jyotisham?

 

 

Dear Chandra hari ji, Take this simple example. DOB: 18 Nov 1971; 2.55 AM (Visakha Nakshatra; Virgo Lagna) Trivandrum. Marriage 24 Feb 2008 Which is the Ayanamsa and Year Length that fits well, when used with Vimsottari Dasa? It is due to numerous such examples that, I prefer True Ayanamsa of 46 min more thn Lahari along with 360 days Savana year. (You know, to whom the data belongs to.) It is not due to any theoretical foundation or logic behind that I have derived such (absurd?) conclusions - but practical application/ matching of events. Anyway I should agree that this conclusion is specific to Vimsottari Dasa. Another question that comes to mind is, If Parasara is the creator of Vimsottari dasa system, and if

he has suggested the use of 360 days Savana year - should we not use it at least for Vimsottari Analysis? May be as Neelam ji might put it, "Parasara may be using theoretically wrong Year length to look at the planets, but he learnt to work with his colored glasses only. While following his foot steps and the methodology he suggests, he may go wrong his colored glasses are removed. If the colored glasses he suggests are not used, we too may miss the correct path while following him; because almost all of his descriptions would be based on his vision." Avoiding the colored glasses, or jumping without rings would be good - but only when we have mastered enough. As a simple student without much understanding, I would prefer the suggested ring, even though would love to keep the mind open for all possibilities. Love and regards,Sreenadh--- In

ancient_indian_ astrology, "chandra_hari18" <chandra_hari18@ ...> wrote:>> > Dear Sreenadh,> > Any reference to 360 days as year by Parasara etc are mistaken adoption> from ancient astronomy. As we see in Pancasiddhantika, Vasishta> discussions, 'days' in fact meant solar degrees and not Savana days.> > Keep an open mind and study more data will be my suggestion.> > chandra hari> > > ancient_indian_ astrology, "Sreenadh"> sreesog@ wrote:> >> >> > Dear Chandra hari ji,> > I don't know whether 360 days Savana year has anything to do with> > astronomy or not. But -> > * For sure with practical experience of reading charts I know that use> > of 360 days Savana year gives me better results.> > * I also know that almost all the

ancient astro classics (except> > Phala deepika) supports 360 days Savana year for result derivation.> > Due to both the above reasons, and also because I am more interested> > in results and correct predictions than the logic and theory behind, I> > prefer to use True Ayanamsa varient (46 min more than Lahari and NOT> 44> > min more than Lahari) and 360 day Savana year - irrespective of> whether> > you will call it ignorance or not.> > Love and regards,> > Sreenadh> >> > ancient_indian_ astrology, "chandra_hari18"> > chandra_hari18@ wrote:> > >> > >> > > Dear Neelamhji,> > >> > > Any use of 360 days for year is simply ignorance of the very basics> of> > > astronomy and astrology. In sidereal astrology (nirayana)

only> choice> > > for the year is 365.2563624 days. Every graha is bound to Sun and> > solar> > > revolution is reference and the arc is 360 degree. Lagnas also take> > > circle of 360 degrees and not days. In 360 days sun travels only 355> > > degrees and 5 degs are left out. How the dasa-bhuktis derived based> on> > > 360 degree revolutions of Moon and also involving 360 deg revls of> > > planets, can manifest on an year less by 5 degrees?> > >> > > If anybody is using 360 days, its shows some handicap in thinking> and> > > reading. Savana year has nothing to do with Jyotisham. Only sidereal> > > solar year has to be used. Some guy in the past may have speculated> > for> > > 360 days but it is wrong.> > >> > > chandra hari> >

>> > >> > > ancient_indian_ astrology, "neelam gupta"> > > neelamgupta07@ wrote:> > > >> > > > Dear All,> > > >> > > > We are having here some very intense discussions between Renu ji> and> > > Chandra> > > > Hari ji. I also feel that there is a point worth taking note of...> > > >> > > > We are all aware that there are n-number of ayanamsha options> > > prescribed for> > > > making and reading a birth chart. Every software programme also> > > includes a> > > > list of ayanamshas for our choice. We as learners are always> > > perplexed,> > > > first by the enormity of the subject itself and then by so many> > > options> > > > for....ayanamshas.

....dashas etc. Raman himself was such a great> name> > > in> > > > astrology with an entirely different ayanamsha!> > > >> > > > We all also know that postmortem justifications are very easy to> > make.> > > Then> > > > how do we ascertain what is right. Every school of thought will> most> > > > vociferously defend its own system. But somewhere we all know that> > > there are> > > > gaps and loose ends in our understanding. I also feel that we> should> > > keep> > > > checking the charts through different ayanamshas, at least now we> > can> > > see> > > > both Lahiri's and Chandra Hari's and try to arrive at our own> > > conclusions.> > > >> > > > We are having this blind chart

exercise where no one knows the> > native.> > > We> > > > cannot call it a postmortem study. Let us begin our probe with> this.> > > > I would request all those who have participated to give the> > ayanamsha> > > > they've used for analysis. When collating the results for> > correctness> > > and> > > > precision, we can get an idea about the correctness of ayanamsha> > used> > > also.> > > >> > > > Anyone who's able to put his finger precisely on more than one> event> > > of her> > > > life within one pratyantar, may be considered as using fairly> > correct> > > > parameters.> > > >> > > > Later on, once we know the events, and thus agree on natal> promise,> >

we> > > can> > > > ask everyone to delineate the timing of that event within one> > > pratyantar> > > > only. I can withhold the dates till that time. Unbiased views> about> > > such> > > > blind charts may lead to much better understanding if we adopt an> > open> > > > policy....> > > >> > > > I shall appreciate if all the participants also submit:> > > > 1) ayanamsha used> > > > 2) year length for vimshottri dasha (365.25 or 360)> > > >> > > > Regards> > > >> > > > Neelam> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > 2008/5/4 renunw renunw@:> > > >>

> > > > Dear Chandra Hari ji,> > > > >> > > > > You write with so much concern and deep feeling for a *true> > cause*.> > > I> > > > > get your message.> > > > >> > > > > What I cannot understand is why and how K. N. Rao ji and his> books> > > > > became popular [i presume so...if I am not misinformed] if his> > > research was> > > > > baseless?? Why do most of the astrologers go for Lahiri and not> > for> > > > > Chandra Hari ayanamsa...may be in spite of knowing deep inside> > them> > > that> > > > > Chandra Hari ayanams is more accurate??? Are good people misled> in> > > this era> > > > > of evil and of immorality?> > > > >> >

> > > In a postmortem, I feel that any ayanamsa should be able to> > clarify> > > the> > > > > past events because one way or the other one can find even a> > remote> > > > > relationship among planets/dasas, which explains everything.> Hence> > I> > > feel> > > > > that post mortem is like doing a jigsaw puzzle. Only a child's> > > > > play....Hence future predictions would be the most appropriate> > test> > > to find> > > > > out which ayanamsa is correct.> > > > >> > > > > 'According to ancient precepts an astrologer should not touch> the> > > chart of> > > > > a dead person"> > > > >> > > > > Ancient precepts reveal some sense.> > > >

>> > > > > "Let us reverse the practice and publish our failed predictions> > and> > > > > analyze them to understand as to what we missed in making such> > wrong> > > > > analysis"> > > > >> > > > > If we fail ..the reason is we are blindfolded. Astrology should> > have> > > a> > > > > deeper meaning than just looking out for future events in a> > persons> > > life.> > > > > Surely, the ancient wise men did not contemplate so hard for> days> > > and days> > > > > just to find a shastra which could reveal the future of an> > > individual?? ?> > > > > They wanted to teach us something more meaningful and I feel> that> > is> > > what> > > >

> we miss here.> > > > >> > > > > blessings> > > > >> > > > > Renu> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology,> "chandra_hari18"> > > > > chandra_hari18@ wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Dear Renuji,> > > > > >> > > > > > Jyotihsastram, most of the self styled champions do not> > understand> > > its> > > > > > depths and the sacrifices that have gone into its development.> > > Mostly> > > > > > these guys speaks of one Parasara who is extolled as Rishi> > because> > > he> > > > > > summarized the Hora and then Varahmihira

who in known times> (6th> > > cent> > > > > > CE) compiled the knowledge of those days. Today as computers> > have> > > become> > > > > > available anyone can speculate on a chart without scientific> > > training> > > > > > and abuse the subject for making money and claiming> Vachaspati.> > > Are> > > > > > they to be taken as idols?> > > > > >> > > > > > What about the great people Aryabhata, Brahmagupta, Lalla,> > > Munjala,> > > > > > Haridatta, Paramesvara, Bhaskara-I and II .., men of> > unimaginable> > > > > > credentials who served the cause of Jyotisha through> painstaking> > > studies> > > > > > on astronomy? We don't know about the

works of their people> and> > so> > > we> > > > > > have come to imagine that X, Y, Z are serving Jyotisha in some> > > hi-fi> > > > > > manner. Postmortem studies on 100 charts, is it Jyotisham?> > > > > >> > > > > > Is there anyone who can predict by observing Swara? You can> see> > > some> > > > > > prasna jargon in certain journals. Can any Prasna be complete> > > without> > > > > > nimitta and Swara? Why the modern researchers cannot predict> the> > > sex of> > > > > > the child? With Rasi and mathematics none could have predicted> > it> > > > > > without the aid of Swara.> > > > > >> > > > > > What is the birth time? I know

that it is 'first cry' and is a> > > tantric> > > > > > precept. But how it can be proved by research?> > > > > >> > > > > > Computation became easy and it does not mean that research in> > > Jyotisha> > > > > > is now postmortem. According to ancient precepts an astrologer> > > should> > > > > > not touch the chart of a dead person. Is postmortem the only> way> > > for> > > > > > astrological research? Where lies the true phenomenal,> > operational> > > basis> > > > > > of Jyotisha?> > > > > >> > > > > > No research in Jyotisha is possible without corresponding> > studies> > > in> > > > > > Yogasastra. But we must remember that grey

beard and> > > pseudospiritual> > > > > > jargon are not the reflections of yogic vision in astrological> > > studies.> > > > > > It is my request that the group may seriously contemplate on> the> > > > > > limitations of postmortem studies and the possibility of> > replacing> > > it> > > > > > with a live Jyotisham.> > > > > >> > > > > > Yes, we need living Jyotisham. Experiencing the grahas and> time,> > > > > > experience of 'daivam'/destiny through the Siva svara, the> > breath> > > and> > > > > > the tattvas. Jataka, Prasna, Nimitta and Swara must go hand in> > > hand to> > > > > > make a living Jyotisham.> > > > > >> > >

> > > Mortuary Jyotisham as is being produced in some journals must> be> > > > > > outrightly rejected as they are cooked up stories published> for> > > > > > enhancing one's personal prestige. A true astrologer should> not> > > claim of> > > > > > any successful predictions in public. Let us reverse the> > practice> > > and> > > > > > publish our failed predictions and analyze them to understand> as> > > to what> > > > > > we missed in making such wrong analysis.> > > > > >> > > > > > chandra hari> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >>

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