Guest guest Posted October 20, 2008 Report Share Posted October 20, 2008 Re: Message to all dear kaul ji namaskar to u pls call me varma not verma ,i like to call me by my real name, First of all our vedic astrologers used grahas not planets again may b millions of them r there ( in this universe which varahamihira also told in his samhitas and horas ) ) also nakshtras ( one area in zodiac ) not billions of stars ( twinkle twinkle little stars )-this is just introduction It doesnot mean that u can ask all ur ignorence /purpose full hidden agendas to me and i shud answer u .it is not my aim too ,i dont blv in correcting any one who is deliberate/ignorent .If u want u shud learn frm good gurus .So avoid me to answer all ur doubts which is real or fabricated . but i used those lines abov to show the diffrnce in ur approach . Even i blv what sri vijaya raghavan ji has said is correct when mentioned in his approach with results than seeing reverse as it is not intelligent for ur present understanding ( mis ) like wat he said .Again i blv all secrets r to the seeker than shouting and asking questions to others irrespectv of their knowledge with only aim is to proov ur points forcibly knowing many ppls level of knowledge .other wise why u dont agree to see in the light of actual results which he was waiting for last 20 days ..( also i may hold some secrets with me even if i know --again i stress here dont ask me ur doubts if u dont know tell that u dont know to the grp and clear off in a decent manner ) There is not much of an explanation to be done regarding Vedas-vis- vis " Vedic astrology " . All I am asking is to quote the mantras from any of the Vedas or the Vedanga Jyotisha---or any indigenous astronomical work prior to the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha--- that talks about Mesha, Vrisha, Mithuna etc. astrological Rashis! Similarly, if someone claims that predictive astrology is Vedic, he/she must also tell us as to how the Vedic Rishis calculated horoscopes of every Tom, Dick and Harry when planets like Mangal and Shani are conspicuous by their absence from all the four Vedas and the Vedanga Jyotisha etc. Obviously, as there are neither Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis in the Vedas etc. nor Mangal and Shani planets, it is impossible that the Vedic Seers practised predictive gimmicks on the basis of non- existent rashis! Thus, to call any predictive " techniques " (sic!) as " Vedic astrology " is nothing but a fraud on the Vedas! #### U r saying so ,but there is lot of instances i heard predictiv astrology in veda ,puranas and epics sage valmiki said Lord ram born when 5 planets were exlated ,so without rasi how come exlatation debilation can come ?? what ever may b names of rasis ,after all wat is in a name ?? ( dont tell me some recent experiments by some one is proof of ur theory it shud b appreciated in that sense when some one try to date Lord rama 's period with help of some SW or his understanding ),even archeologist r trying to find lost dwaraka under sea ,so any finding goes wrong later i dont think it is worth humiliating it than u hav a diffrnt purpose . if u quote vedas we hav to strt frm begining as majority has no time to read and study it and we never asked ur opinions ,so if u blv we shud b informed,then it becomes ur head ache to explain vedas ,purnas or what ever it is . Also i request u pls dont call rishis frauds or mlechas .Here u name is atleast a hindu one other wise u know what will happen with recent devlpemnts in india . Again i stress here it shud not prevent u frm saying the truth ,what happened in ur so called greece or all western countires were all gurus or even scientists were hanged or prosecuted unlike in india and india it never happend with my small historical knowldge .even blvers and non blvrs co existed here .but calling names is unwanted esp when reverence is given to them by many lacs of ppl which u may also agree .Even i dont think they wrote all this to extract money or with some material purposes . Coming to your second point that predictive gimmicks are a science it appears you are blisfully (or is it deliberately?) unaware that the zodiac cannot be divided into twelve neat and equal divisions/compatments like Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis astronomically! That just is an impossible task and that is why no astronomer has attempted it till date! #### any astronomer can try it deviding the zodiac , no problem ,in maths we r doing it or even in any other experiments ( on mental /theoretical level level ) ,even longititude and latitude or even division of electrorates in democarcy or even provinces for economic purpose etc all r fictious but convenient for a purticular purpose Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis are actually Sanskritization of Aries, Taurus etc. Greek constellations, which were and are unequal! Thus any predictions based on any " equal twelve divisios " of the zodiac can never be scientific! ### yes ,u can say so ,as it is ur opinion .I dont blv we got astro frm greeks as it is based on punarjanma and karma sidhantha also yevana means not greeks there are many stories in puranas which says yevana are hindus and indians but out casts in bookish sense but sons of some rishis like nagas or asuras . This division of signs r based on suns movement or solar months ( sun dont movin reality but earth but geocentricaly sun is moving ). even we further divide it into Nakhsatras (13 " 20 " ) )( it is not stars like what u talks or says ) then navamsa (3 " 20')and various amsa to nadimasas and ardha nadiamsa(d-300 but not equal division only in nadi amsa--one rasi is seen as 1/300 th of division ) why we shud depend greeks only for rasis which is 30 dgree of 12 division of a zodiac ??is it holds water ,u depends on varhamihira s some sloka to call him fraud and he took frm yevans and convenently assigns all to greeks which even they will not agree .Poor him ,if he knows this he wud hav deleted that stanza > Secondly, you must yourself be aware that as on date no Jyotishi, howsoever great he/she may be or may have been, has claimed more than seventy per cent success in his/her predictions. ### sure as he blvs in karmas ,past lifes free will and ur karma is fate of this birth and this birth's free will and karma ( in right direction ) can b work as a curing activity in case of problems . astrology dont support fatalistic approach ,frauds r in every field esp in this kali era . As per their own words, only God Almighty can make cent per cent correct assessment! #### yes,it is true with any branch of knowledge which is practical in applying other than pure mathematics . even ISRO cheif madhavan nair was telling till the mission (chandrayaan )is successful he cannot say it b4 hand ,not even one sec b4 ,mathematicaly he said mission shud b succesful as various liv tests still going on to make sure of it . It is thus clear that predcitve gimmicks cannot be bracketed as a branch of astronomy, which demands cent per cent accuracy! For example, we can calculate these days solar and lunar eclipses that may take place hundreds of years hence---and those eclipse timings are correct to the nearest decimal second! Similarly, eclipses from 3000 BCE have been calculated already--and that also correct to the nearest decimal second! ### It is ur convenient arguemnt i blv .Since u dont hav any factual reports based on actual incidents .( if true u can giv 1000 exmple i blv ) To my knowldge panchanga karta and predicting astrologers are generaly diffrnt and predictiv astrologers depends panchangas unless they trained in vedic gurukula tradition of 25 to 30 yrs living in gurukula and learns ,which is not possible now a days ( even 100s of yrs b4 in history ) because many reason including feasiblity then also availability of such gurus and gurukulas. other wise can u tell me one instance were indian astronomers or sidhanthies calculated wrongly ,even if so( say few minits ) i dont worry as at least they hav that concept long long back .But the 3 hrs or 4 hrs error is not digestable to me still as u say . You can well imagine as to what type of a laughing stock astronomers will make of themselves if they claim " seventy per cent accuracy " in the eclipse timings---which means that the solar eclipse that is supposed to take place say at 3.00 pm in Delhi may take place earlier of later by at least three hours and so on! I may mention in the passing that that is exactly what happened in the past---actual eclipse timings were plus/minus several hours, if not days, from the calculations based on the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha! ### i blv u r acting smart in frnt of novices if so why dont u go and presnt ur paper on surya sidhantha in science forums in frnt of world renounced astronomers and scientists . Similarly, if just seventy per cent success is/was expected in the landing timings of Voyager or Atlantis or any other spacecraft you can appreciate the disastrous consequences of those experiments! ### astrology is not astronomy or viceversa .Why predictiv astrologers shud b worried abt all those astronomical factors which is diffrnt branch all together after intitial some assossiations . Then again, common sense also precludes our taking predictive gimmicks as a branch of astronomy! How can Mangal, Shani etc. planets affect every individual individually and that also through some intangible Vimshotari or Ashtotari or Yogini or Kalachakra or Manduka or Pluta Dasha etc. Similarly, if a Star is away from me by about 30 Light Years, how can it affect me instantaneously as soon as my Rahu- Dasha or Shani Dasha starts? Further more, jyotishis themsleves are not sure whether they should go by Jaimini system or Tazika system or Lal Kitab or KP or Brihat Samhita etc. or Western system like Secondary Progressions etc. which are poles apart from one another both in the fundamentals as well as the inferences! ### u say so ,but i find it diffrntly -equaly contributing r all indian astro concepts ,i dont know much abt western ones also planets and rasis i told u reference with ramayana( even without a zero factor no one can calculate even nakshtras which u saying in vedas ) Then again, in spite of claiming that Vedic astrology is being practised from the very dawn of creation---the Vedas are supposed to exist from the very dawn of creation, which means Vedic astrology must have been propagated from the day one of creation--that means about two billion years, according to Vedic astrologers themselves, they have yet to decide as to which Ayanamsha is the most accurate for making predictions---Some are screaming about Lahiri Ayanamsha being the best whereas others claim that Yuktshwar Ayanamsha is the number one ayanamsha and still others claim Chandra Hari Ayanamsha beats all the others and so on! ### Tell us wat u blv on vedas ,u never done it in any grp than pumping some ready made questions .other wise i cannot talk on this . The net result of all this plethora of predictive techniques and ayanamshas and what not has been that we do not know the real date of Uttarayana or Dakshinayana or Vasanta Sampat or Hemanta Sampat etc. and thus we never celebrate any of our festivals whether Dipavali or Viajaya Dashmi or Mahavira Nkirvana Divas etc. on correct days! ### first of all we r talking abt astrology i blv ,not ur calander which is yet to proov its efficacy ( not even used by one man in 6 or 7 billion world population ) .i also told u it depends on ur understanding abt vedas which u never explained to us . other wise we can say predictiv astrology /space science /rockets etc r fraud on vedas and hindus shud not use even a cycle as not mentioned in vedas (means u dont find it in vedas) .oh lucky me - u never find we were not using cloths during vedic times ( i hope so ,or do u hav some other arguemnts against it too ) Is that what you want us to continue doing just to placate your larger than life ego? ###### [] Well, I am sorry I do not agree with you there nor am I going to be taken in by such uselss logic and haranguing, that is neither Vedic nor scientific. ### Think whose logic is useless . Hope i will b getting point wise answers than asking me to read books or get some answers frm all the 100000s of books ,if so then i dont need to interact here .Also i remind u again u only said it is ur mission to make us understand on fraud of predictiv gimiks in vedic astrology . I repeat i personaly can vouch the efficacy of astrology 100 times with exmples which is my practical exprnce ,so i am not worried too ,even u all r conducting some desk top type of arguemnts than reality in seeing it . also i request u to dont twist anything in my mails.Also dont invite me /ask to join to more new forums to answer me . regrds M varma . , " Avtar Krishen Kaul " <jyotirved wrote: > > Shri Maheswara Vermaji, > Namaskar! > <he posted diffrnt things even on futility of sri kaul's > reserch and so called claims ,he also asked him to show his > understanding of vedas .he even told he will explain everything later > as it needs lot of time to explain all their questions> > > There is not much of an explanation to be done regarding Vedas-vis- > vis " Vedic astrology " . All I am asking is to quote the mantras from > any of the Vedas or the Vedanga Jyotisha---or any indigenous > astronomical work prior to the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha--- > that talks about Mesha, Vrisha, Mithuna etc. astrological Rashis! > Similarly, if someone claims that predictive astrology is Vedic, > he/she must also tell us as to how the Vedic Rishis calculated > horoscopes of every Tom, Dick and Harry when planets like Mangal and > Shani are conspicuous by their absence from all the four Vedas and > the Vedanga Jyotisha etc. > Obviously, as there are neither Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis in the > Vedas etc. nor Mangal and Shani planets, it is impossible that the > Vedic Seers practised predictive gimmicks on the basis of non- > existent rashis! > Thus, to call any predictive " techniques " (sic!) as " Vedic astrology " > is nothing but a fraud on the Vedas! > > Coming to your second point that predictive gimmicks are a science it > appears you are blisfully (or is it deliberately?) unaware that the > zodiac cannot be divided into twelve neat and equal > divisions/compatments like Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis astronomically! > That just is an impossible task and that is why no astronomer has > attempted it till date! Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis are actually > Sanskritization of Aries, Taurus etc. Greek constellations, which > were and are unequal! Thus any predictions based on any " equal > twelve divisios " of the zodiac can never be scientific! > > Secondly, you must yourself be aware that as on date no Jyotishi, > howsoever great he/she may be or may have been, has claimed more than > seventy per cent success in his/her predictions. As per their own > words, only God Almighty can make cent per cent correct assessment! > > It is thus clear that predcitve gimmicks cannot be bracketed as a > branch of astronomy, which demands cent per cent accuracy! > For example, we can calculate these days solar and lunar eclipses > that may take place hundreds of years hence---and those eclipse > timings are correct to the nearest decimal second! Similarly, > eclipses from 3000 BCE have been calculated already--and that also > correct to the nearest decimal second! > You can well imagine as to what type of a laughing stock astronomers > will make of themselves if they claim " seventy per cent accuracy " in > the eclipse timings---which means that the solar eclipse that is > supposed to take place say at 3.00 pm in Delhi may take place earlier > of later by at least three hours and so on! > I may mention in the passing that that is exactly what happened in > the past---actual eclipse timings were plus/minus several hours, if > not days, from the calculations based on the Surya Sidhanta of Maya > the mlechha! > > Similarly, if just seventy per cent success is/was expected in the > landing timings of Voyager or Atlantis or any other spacecraft you > can appreciate the disastrous consequences of those experiments! > > Then again, common sense also precludes our taking predictive > gimmicks as a branch of astronomy! How can Mangal, Shani etc. planets > affect every individual individually and that also through some > intangible Vimshotari or Ashtotari or Yogini or Kalachakra or Manduka > or Pluta Dasha etc. Similarly, if a Star is away from me by about 30 > Light Years, how can it affect me instantaneously as soon as my Rahu- > Dasha or Shani Dasha starts? Further more, jyotishis themsleves are > not sure whether they should go by Jaimini system or Tazika system or > Lal Kitab or KP or Brihat Samhita etc. or Western system like > Secondary Progressions etc. which are poles apart from one another > both in the fundamentals as well as the inferences! > Then again, in spite of claiming that Vedic astrology is being > practised from the very dawn of creation---the Vedas are supposed to > exist from the very dawn of creation, which means Vedic astrology > must have been propagated from the day one of creation--that means > about two billion years, according to Vedic astrologers themselves, > they have yet to decide as to which Ayanamsha is the most accurate > for making predictions---Some are screaming about Lahiri Ayanamsha > being the best whereas others claim that Yuktshwar Ayanamsha is the > number one ayanamsha and still others claim Chandra Hari Ayanamsha > beats all the others and so on! > > The net result of all this plethora of predictive techniques and > ayanamshas and what not has been that we do not know the real date of > Uttarayana or Dakshinayana or Vasanta Sampat or Hemanta Sampat etc. > and thus we never celebrate any of our festivals whether Dipavali or > Viajaya Dashmi or Mahavira Nkirvana Divas etc. on correct days! > > Is that what you want us to continue doing just to placate your > larger than life ego? > Well, I am sorry I do not agree with you there nor am I going to be > taken in by such uselss logic and haranguing, that is neither Vedic > nor scientific. > Dhanyavad. > A K Kaul > > > > , " maheswara_varma " > maheswara_varma@ wrote: > > > > > > dear sanat ji and group . > > > > poor vijayaraghavan ,he thought this is a logical forum ,he > mentioned > > everything but the moderaters r not for seeing the truth > deliberately > > ,they r putting one science in shoes of other science .Or simply > > brushing aside with statements it is common or fluke or accidental > like > > this (esp sri kaul ji ) . > > > > > > > > because the aim is diffrnt i also blv ,what ever points he raised is > > true and valid but his lack of time ( when i contcted him he also > told > > me he cannot wait till end of the world ,as he told me they r simply > > passing time ).he posted diffrnt things even on futility of sri > kaul's > > reserch and so called claims ,he also asked him to show his > > understanding of vedas .he even told he will explain everything > later as > > it needs lot of time to explain all their questions ( as useless > > countering questions will also strt which happened in many others > case > > ,as the main question is ,is astrology is usefull than is it is a > > science or myth or wheter we got frm greek or US ) ,so he made it a > > point to see collectively the results of all those rishi 's dictums > ( > > all grp shud participate and he was not imposing any conditions > other > > than this ) ,so first see results and then let us go to > basics .As it > > is more easy for novice s who joined to know what is astrology than > > going round the world with mutable/twistable answers .Then simply > > asking questions to prolongate the discussions .But once results r > known > > then basics r easy to to exlain too .Then every one may not wait for > > answers too . > > > > > > > > he waited for 20 days to get a positiv reply or a effort to see in > > actual way . > > > > then strted getting voilent as any man blvs in quality time will > do . > > > > > > > > even he dont use any bad languge other than words fool or fraud > which i > > think is true ,because when some one rejects all the worlds > exprnces how > > can we act cooly .Fist of all where was quality discussion ( > search of > > truth ) frm the moderaters side than repeating some pseudo > intellectual > > points which is ready made too or twisting the points and giving > answers > > for the queries he raised , > > > > > > > > asking others to see or answer only in our way is not logic or > > scientific if some one wants to see the truth ( for exmple swami > > vivekanda and sri ramakrishna paramahamsa dailogues ) ,it is > adamance > > ,unscientific and i think we can call those ppl with having some > secret > > missions /agenda. > > > > now if some one wants why this days it has happend (i mean why they > > faced this carpet bombing in this grp ) i will explain to u all > in the > > lite of astro . > > > > but write to me personaly . > > > > > > > > maheswara varma . > > > > ps --I wrote this as my opinion and further discussion on this i > may or > > may not participate depending on constructv approach raised by > queriests > > . > > > > also sri sanat ji -dont count on some one who posted a mail is a > > support for u ,any intelligent persons can see it is a way to flash > his > > address and some future business ,pls ban all address or personal > links > > which is self promoting in future communications in grp,if u r > serious > > in ur approach ( again it is my suggestions only ) . > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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