Parasara on Chara Karakas: An Independent Interpretation

October 23, 2008

Dear Narasimhaji

I was reading through your article and trying to understand the use of 7 and 8 chara karaka system. Being a novice in using the karakas I faced with one problem of selecting the sthira karaka. Can the sthira karaka be a planet that has already been given a CK role previously?

Till now I have been able to figure out that sthira amk - mercury, mk - moon/mars (whichever is stronger), pik - sun/venus, pk - shani/jupiter, gk - mercury, what will be sthira DK? (venus?) Did I get this list right, because without this getting the right karakas for many charts would be impossible for me..

-Regards

Rajarshi

"This above all: to thine own self be true!" - Hamlet--- On Thu, 23/10/08, Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr wrote:

Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr Parasara on Chara Karakas: An Independent Interpretationsohamsa , vedic astrology , , sjc-guru , sjcBoston Date: Thursday, 23 October, 2008, 10:29 PM

Namaste friends,Here is the promised article on chara karakas. I have no pretensions that I got it correct. But this is based on an honest attempt to purge all preconceived notions from the mind and approach Parasara's verses with a fresh and unbiased mind.In my view, neither the 7 chara karaka school nor the 8 chara karaka school got Parasara correct. Parasara taught that 7 chara karakas should be used in some charts and 8 chara karakas in some charts and clearly described when to use what.I am trying to share whatever I was able to understand by reading Parasara's exposition on chara karakas with an open mind and then experimenting. If you think my interpretation has some worth in it, please use it, experiment, benefit and spread the knowledge. If not, just leave it.I have uploaded a detailed article on chara karakas on my website. It describes the calculation with 16 examples, covering various cases. Apart from

defining chara karaka calculation, this article also defines and uses a dasa called "Karaka dasa" that was taught by Parasara for the purpose of timing events using chara karakas. Please download the following PDF file if interested:http://VedicAstrolo ger.org/articles /c_karaka. pdfIf you find the article useful, please feel free to forward this link to those who may be interested.Krishnaarpanamastu,Narasimha------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homamDo Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpanaSpirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdomFree Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. netFree Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.orgSri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Invite them now.

October 23, 2008

Dear Narasimha,

Let me extract /emphasize some points from your article,

for everyone interested to study this must-read text:

1/'...the choice is based on clear and tangible rules, there is nothing left to arbitrary choice' by anybody

2/ 'there is no such a thing as charakaraka parivartana, chara karakas are fixed

3. one that becomes absent /from the portfolio/ "gets judged by corresponding shtira karaka" (!!)

4. "karaka dasa- if calculation of karakas change, dasa shange as well.

/I am excited about exploring and applying this 'lead', indeed/

KISS works- always. Thank You!

Examples are excellent, HI everyone! should study this,/IMHO/.

This article is certainly the one of the most important moments in my studying Jyotish., and I am sure it will become for many others. You touched me. It's not just about CK's, of course. Your standpoint well known to me based on what you've already wrote about, is getting crystal clear now, is rounded-off sort of. Too long have you abstained from being /too/ clear!

I understood and 'clicked' on the basic right away, of course, when you presented it. I was ready immediately to explore this further because of your proven to me, authority- not only as a Sanskrit expert but as an honest, capable, truth-seeking student of jyotish, ready to share his wealth with all.

I write this with humble intention to share that little piece of my interest and understanding with those who might find it interesting.

This article fits perfectly the place of that 'missing part' I've been searching for. There is nothing left to 'speculations over choices' really- getting overwhelmed and lost by ever increasing growth of concepts, cryptic slokas interpretations /as if wild theoretical expansion is more important than understanding /

vs. those 'unambiguous' 'non-arbitrary', from Pasaraara himself.

Jyotish is not about growing pile of 'mind-entertaining' but poorly connected, useless concepts, I hear you.

You serve the call of your consciousness, you you don't need to be praised by anyone, I know that.

Thank you, anyway.

Respectfully,

Yours

Anna--- On Thu, 10/23/08, Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr wrote:

Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr Parasara on Chara Karakas: An Independent Interpretationsohamsa , vedic astrology , , sjc-guru , sjcBoston Date: Thursday, October 23, 2008, 12:59 PM

Namaste friends,Here is the promised article on chara karakas. I have no pretensions that I got it correct. But this is based on an honest attempt to purge all preconceived notions from the mind and approach Parasara's verses with a fresh and unbiased mind.In my view, neither the 7 chara karaka school nor the 8 chara karaka school got Parasara correct. Parasara taught that 7 chara karakas should be used in some charts and 8 chara karakas in some charts and clearly described when to use what.I am trying to share whatever I was able to understand by reading Parasara's exposition on chara karakas with an open mind and then experimenting. If you think my interpretation has some worth in it, please use it, experiment, benefit and spread the knowledge. If not, just leave it.I have uploaded a detailed article on chara karakas on my website. It describes the calculation with 16 examples, covering various cases. Apart from

defining chara karaka calculation, this article also defines and uses a dasa called "Karaka dasa" that was taught by Parasara for the purpose of timing events using chara karakas. Please download the following PDF file if interested:http://VedicAstrolo ger.org/articles /c_karaka. pdfIf you find the article useful, please feel free to forward this link to those who may be interested.Krishnaarpanamastu,Narasimha------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homamDo Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpanaSpirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdomFree Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. netFree Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.orgSri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

October 23, 2008

Dear Narasimha,

If pl. degrees require that we use Rahu,

would it be of any effect if Rahu himself happened to be on the same degree as one of the planets?

If I missed that info, please disregard my Q.Thanks,

Anna--- On Thu, 10/23/08, Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr wrote:

Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr Parasara on Chara Karakas: An Independent Interpretationsohamsa , vedic astrology , , sjc-guru , sjcBoston Date: Thursday, October 23, 2008, 12:59 PM

Namaste friends,Here is the promised article on chara karakas. I have no pretensions that I got it correct. But this is based on an honest attempt to purge all preconceived notions from the mind and approach Parasara's verses with a fresh and unbiased mind.In my view, neither the 7 chara karaka school nor the 8 chara karaka school got Parasara correct. Parasara taught that 7 chara karakas should be used in some charts and 8 chara karakas in some charts and clearly described when to use what.I am trying to share whatever I was able to understand by reading Parasara's exposition on chara karakas with an open mind and then experimenting. If you think my interpretation has some worth in it, please use it, experiment, benefit and spread the knowledge. If not, just leave it.I have uploaded a detailed article on chara karakas on my website. It describes the calculation with 16 examples, covering various cases. Apart from

defining chara karaka calculation, this article also defines and uses a dasa called "Karaka dasa" that was taught by Parasara for the purpose of timing events using chara karakas. Please download the following PDF file if interested:http://VedicAstrolo ger.org/articles /c_karaka. pdfIf you find the article useful, please feel free to forward this link to those who may be interested.Krishnaarpanamastu,Narasimha------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homamDo Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpanaSpirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdomFree Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. netFree Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.orgSri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

October 24, 2008

||Aum namo bhagwate Rudraya||

dear narasimha rao ji ,

i have read your article on Chara karakas and completely agree on your

views . however, just wanted to know , that the method that you have

mentioed in the article , is it already used in JH 7.02? or will u

incorporating this new calculation method in a newer edition of JH ?

thanks and humble regards,

Chandan S Sabarwal.

October 24, 2008

Namaste,

First check the degrees of 7 planets. If any two are in the same degree, then Rahu also gets in. Once Rahu is in, he is like all other planets. You take his degrees and see where he fits. He may have a tie with a planet and the same rules apply in resolving his tie as that of other planets.

If all the seven planets are in different degrees, you do not include Rahu. His degrees do not matter then, even if they match some other planet's degrees.

Best regards,NarasimhaDo a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homamDo Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpanaSpirituality: Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.netFree Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.orgSri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

sohamsa , 108ar <bona_mente wrote:>> Dear Narasimha,> > If pl. degrees require that we use Rahu, > would it be of any effect if Rahu himself happened to be on the same degree as one of the planets? > > If I missed that info, please disregard my Q.> > Thanks,> Anna> > --- On Thu, 10/23/08, Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr wrote:> > Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr> Parasara on Chara Karakas: An Independent Interpretation> sohamsa , vedic astrology , , sjc-guru , sjcBoston > Thursday, October 23, 2008, 12:59 PM> > > > > > > Namaste friends,> > Here is the promised article on chara karakas. I have no pretensions that I got it correct. But this is based on an honest attempt to purge all preconceived notions from the mind and approach Parasara's verses with a fresh and unbiased mind.> > In my view, neither the 7 chara karaka school nor the 8 chara karaka school got Parasara correct. Parasara taught that 7 chara karakas should be used in some charts and 8 chara karakas in some charts and clearly described when to use what.> > I am trying to share whatever I was able to understand by reading Parasara's exposition on chara karakas with an open mind and then experimenting. If you think my interpretation has some worth in it, please use it, experiment, benefit and spread the knowledge. If not, just leave it.> > I have uploaded a detailed article on chara karakas on my website. It describes the calculation with 16 examples, covering various cases. Apart from defining chara karaka calculation, this article also defines and uses a dasa called "Karaka dasa" that was taught by Parasara for the purpose of timing events using chara karakas. Please download the following PDF file if interested:> > http://VedicAstrologer.org/articles/c_karaka.pdf> > If you find the article useful, please feel free to forward this link to those who may be interested.> > Krishnaarpanamastu,> Narasimha> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -> Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam> Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana> Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom> Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net> Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org> Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

October 24, 2008

Thanks Narasimha,

New Qs coming...as soon as your answer arrived!

Regards,

Anna--- On Thu, 10/23/08, Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr wrote:

Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr Re: Parasara on Chara Karakas: An Independent Interpretationsohamsa Date: Thursday, October 23, 2008, 8:46 PM

Namaste,

First check the degrees of 7 planets. If any two are in the same degree, then Rahu also gets in. Once Rahu is in, he is like all other planets. You take his degrees and see where he fits. He may have a tie with a planet and the same rules apply in resolving his tie as that of other planets.

If all the seven planets are in different degrees, you do not include Rahu. His degrees do not matter then, even if they match some other planet's degrees.

Best regards,Narasimha------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homamDo Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpanaSpirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdomFree Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. netFree Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.orgSri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

sohamsa@ .com, 108ar <bona_mente@. ..> wrote:>> Dear Narasimha,> > If pl. degrees require that we use Rahu, > would it be of any effect if Rahu himself happened to be on the same degree as one of the planets? > > If I missed that info, please disregard my Q.> > Thanks,> Anna> > --- On Thu, 10/23/08, Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr wrote:> > Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr> Parasara on Chara Karakas: An Independent Interpretation> sohamsa@ .com, vedic astrology, , sjc-guru@ s.com, sjcBoston@grou ps.com> Thursday, October 23, 2008, 12:59 PM> > > > > > > Namaste friends,> > Here is the promised article on chara karakas. I have no pretensions that I got it correct. But this is based on an honest attempt to purge all preconceived notions from the mind and approach Parasara's verses with a fresh and unbiased mind.> > In my view, neither the 7 chara karaka school nor the 8 chara karaka school got Parasara correct. Parasara taught that 7 chara karakas should be used in some charts and 8 chara karakas in some charts and clearly described when to use what.>

> I am trying to share whatever I was able to understand by reading Parasara's exposition on chara karakas with an open mind and then experimenting. If you think my interpretation has some worth in it, please use it, experiment, benefit and spread the knowledge. If not, just leave it.> > I have uploaded a detailed article on chara karakas on my website. It describes the calculation with 16 examples, covering various cases. Apart from defining chara karaka calculation, this article also defines and uses a dasa called "Karaka dasa" that was taught by Parasara for the purpose of timing events using chara karakas. Please download the following PDF file if interested:> > http://VedicAstrolo ger.org/articles /c_karaka. pdf> > If you find the article useful, please feel free to forward this link to those who may be

interested.> > Krishnaarpanamastu,> Narasimha> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -> Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam> Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana> Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom> Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net> Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org> Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org> ------------

--------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

October 24, 2008

Dear Narasimha, NamaskarThank you very much for your extremely interesting article.

I would like to ask you about a case you did not explain.What do you do when 3 or more planets are at the same degree or you have 2 or more pairs of planets at the same degree in each pair?

For example in this chartOctober 16, 1961 3:37 amTime zone 3:00 (East of GMT)Kishinev, Moldova 28E51, 47N00we have

Jupiter 4 degrees 48 minutesVenus 4degrees 05 minutesSaturn 0 degrees 11 minutesRahu 0 degrees 46 minutesIf we remove 2 losers we lack one planet.

Thank you very much,LeonidOn Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 8:46 PM, Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr wrote:

Namaste,

First check the degrees of 7 planets. If any two are in the same degree, then Rahu also gets in. Once Rahu is in, he is like all other planets. You take his degrees and see where he fits. He may have a tie with a planet and the same rules apply in resolving his tie as that of other planets.

If all the seven planets are in different degrees, you do not include Rahu. His degrees do not matter then, even if they match some other planet's degrees.

Best regards,NarasimhaDo a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homamDo Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpanaSpirituality: Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.netFree Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.orgSri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

sohamsa , 108ar <bona_mente wrote:>> Dear Narasimha,> > If pl. degrees require that we use Rahu, > would it be of any effect if Rahu himself happened to be on the same degree as one of the planets? > > If I missed that info, please disregard my Q.> > Thanks,> Anna> > --- On Thu, 10/23/08, Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr wrote:> > Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr> Parasara on Chara Karakas: An Independent Interpretation> sohamsa , vedic astrology , , sjc-guru , sjcBoston > Thursday, October 23, 2008, 12:59 PM> > > > > > > Namaste friends,> > Here is the promised article on chara karakas. I have no pretensions that I got it correct. But this is based on an honest attempt to purge all preconceived notions from the mind and approach Parasara's verses with a fresh and unbiased mind.> > In my view, neither the 7 chara karaka school nor the 8 chara karaka school got Parasara correct. Parasara taught that 7 chara karakas should be used in some charts and 8 chara karakas in some charts and clearly described when to use what.> > I am trying to share whatever I was able to understand by reading Parasara's exposition on chara karakas with an open mind and then experimenting. If you think my interpretation has some worth in it, please use it, experiment, benefit and spread the knowledge. If not, just leave it.> > I have uploaded a detailed article on chara karakas on my website. It describes the calculation with 16 examples, covering various cases. Apart from defining chara karaka calculation, this article also defines and uses a dasa called " Karaka dasa " that was taught by Parasara for the purpose of timing events using chara karakas. Please download the following PDF file if interested:> > http://VedicAstrologer.org/articles/c_karaka.pdf> > If you find the article useful, please feel free to forward this link to those who may be interested.> > Krishnaarpanamastu,> Narasimha> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -> Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam> Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana> Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom

> Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net> Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org> Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

October 24, 2008

Dear Leonid

Sorry for interrupting in your conversation with Narasimha. I have a similar situation in my chart. Once we have determined that Rahu comes into the picture, we assess all the degress independently for the AK. So in this case Rahu will become the AK as its degree will be around 29degrees 13 mins. Jup and Venus figfht for PK and GK. Now the sthira karaka will become the PK and the GK will be Jupiter.

And the rest of the planets fill in the other places.

-Regards

Rajarshi

"This above all: to thine own self be true!" - Hamlet--- On Fri, 24/10/08, Leonid Rabovetskiy <lrabovetskiy wrote:

Leonid Rabovetskiy <lrabovetskiyRe: Re: Parasara on Chara Karakas: An Independent Interpretationsohamsa Date: Friday, 24 October, 2008, 7:58 AM

Dear Narasimha, Namaskar

Thank you very much for your extremely interesting article.

I would like to ask you about a case you did not explain.

What do you do when 3 or more planets are at the same degree or you have 2 or more pairs of planets at the same degree in each pair?

For example in this chart

October 16, 1961 3:37 am

Time zone 3:00 (East of GMT)

Kishinev, Moldova

28E51, 47N00

we have

Jupiter 4 degrees 48 minutes

Venus 4degrees 05 minutes

Saturn 0 degrees 11 minutes

Rahu 0 degrees 46 minutes

If we remove 2 losers we lack one planet.

Thank you very much,

Leonid

On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 8:46 PM, Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net> wrote:

Namaste,

First check the degrees of 7 planets. If any two are in the same degree, then Rahu also gets in. Once Rahu is in, he is like all other planets. You take his degrees and see where he fits. He may have a tie with a planet and the same rules apply in resolving his tie as that of other planets.

If all the seven planets are in different degrees, you do not include Rahu. His degrees do not matter then, even if they match some other planet's degrees.

Best regards,Narasimha------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homamDo Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana

Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdomFree Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. netFree Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org

Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

sohamsa@ .com, 108ar <bona_mente@. ..> wrote:>> Dear Narasimha,> > If pl. degrees require that we use Rahu, > would it be of any effect if Rahu himself happened to be on the same degree as one of the planets? > > If I missed that info, please disregard my Q.> > Thanks,> Anna> > --- On Thu, 10/23/08, Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr wrote:> > Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr

> Parasara on Chara Karakas: An Independent Interpretation> sohamsa@ .com, vedic astrology, , sjc-guru@ s.com, sjcBoston@grou ps.com> Thursday, October 23, 2008, 12:59 PM> > > > > > > Namaste friends,> > Here is the promised article on chara karakas. I have no pretensions that I got it correct. But this is based on an honest attempt to purge all preconceived notions from the mind and

approach Parasara's verses with a fresh and unbiased mind.> > In my view, neither the 7 chara karaka school nor the 8 chara karaka school got Parasara correct. Parasara taught that 7 chara karakas should be used in some charts and 8 chara karakas in some charts and clearly described when to use what.> > I am trying to share whatever I was able to understand by reading Parasara's exposition on chara karakas with an open mind and then experimenting. If you think my interpretation has some worth in it, please use it, experiment, benefit and spread the knowledge. If not, just leave it.> > I have uploaded a detailed article on chara karakas on my website. It describes the calculation with 16 examples, covering various cases. Apart from defining chara karaka calculation, this article also defines and uses a dasa called "Karaka dasa" that was taught by Parasara for the purpose of timing events using chara karakas.

Please download the following PDF file if interested:> > http://VedicAstrolo ger.org/articles /c_karaka. pdf

> > If you find the article useful, please feel free to forward this link to those who may be interested.> > Krishnaarpanamastu,> Narasimha> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -> Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam> Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana> Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom> Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.

home.comcast. net> Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org> Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Invite them now.

October 24, 2008

Dear Leonid,

I'll try to explain, if you don't mind.

My 2cts.

If one planet loses, it's out of picture- but we do not lose karaka , just replace it with SHTIRA Karaka. /Ve for father, Moon or Mars-the stronger of the two- for mother, Me for AmK etc.../

/Important note: Auspiciousness/characteristics of the planet excluded are still valid, since that planet natural karakas are always there- nothing is lost, ever/

In your example, Ju wins. The 'winner' gets lower range portfolio, though- shtira k. replaces the higher one. Ve is out of picture /for this purpose ONLY/, but shtira makes up for that.

You can apply this rule to Rahu as well- look at the minutes/seconds/ to

decide which one loses 'portfolio', then look which karaka that planet represents, and so on..

Hope this helps.

Best wishes,

Anna

--- On Thu, 10/23/08, Leonid Rabovetskiy <lrabovetskiy wrote:

Leonid Rabovetskiy <lrabovetskiyRe: Re: Parasara on Chara Karakas: An Independent Interpretationsohamsa Date: Thursday, October 23, 2008, 10:28 PM

Dear Narasimha, Namaskar

Thank you very much for your extremely interesting article.

I would like to ask you about a case you did not explain.

What do you do when 3 or more planets are at the same degree or you have 2 or more pairs of planets at the same degree in each pair?

For example in this chart

October 16, 1961 3:37 am

Time zone 3:00 (East of GMT)

Kishinev, Moldova

28E51, 47N00

we have

Jupiter 4 degrees 48 minutes

Venus 4degrees 05 minutes

Saturn 0 degrees 11 minutes

Rahu 0 degrees 46 minutes

If we remove 2 losers we lack one planet.

Thank you very much,

Leonid

On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 8:46 PM, Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net> wrote:

Namaste,

First check the degrees of 7 planets. If any two are in the same degree, then Rahu also gets in. Once Rahu is in, he is like all other planets. You take his degrees and see where he fits. He may have a tie with a planet and the same rules apply in resolving his tie as that of other planets.

If all the seven planets are in different degrees, you do not include Rahu. His degrees do not matter then, even if they match some other planet's degrees.

Best regards,Narasimha------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homamDo Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdomFree Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. netFree Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

sohamsa@ .com, 108ar <bona_mente@. ..> wrote:>> Dear Narasimha,> > If pl. degrees require that we use Rahu, > would it be of any effect if Rahu himself happened to be on the same degree as one of the planets? > > If I missed that info, please disregard my Q.> > Thanks,> Anna> > --- On Thu, 10/23/08, Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr wrote:> > Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr > Parasara on Chara Karakas: An Independent Interpretation> sohamsa@ .com, vedic astrology, , sjc-guru@ s.com, sjcBoston@grou ps.com> Thursday, October 23, 2008, 12:59 PM> > > > > > > Namaste friends,> > Here is the promised article on chara karakas. I have no pretensions that I got it correct. But this is based on an honest attempt to purge all preconceived notions from the mind and

approach Parasara's verses with a fresh and unbiased mind.> > In my view, neither the 7 chara karaka school nor the 8 chara karaka school got Parasara correct. Parasara taught that 7 chara karakas should be used in some charts and 8 chara karakas in some charts and clearly described when to use what.> > I am trying to share whatever I was able to understand by reading Parasara's exposition on chara karakas with an open mind and then experimenting. If you think my interpretation has some worth in it, please use it, experiment, benefit and spread the knowledge. If not, just leave it.> > I have uploaded a detailed article on chara karakas on my website. It describes the calculation with 16 examples, covering various cases. Apart from defining chara karaka calculation, this article also defines and uses a dasa called "Karaka dasa" that was taught by Parasara for the purpose of timing events using chara karakas.

Please download the following PDF file if interested:> > http://VedicAstrolo ger.org/articles /c_karaka. pdf > > If you find the article useful, please feel free to forward this link to those who may be interested.> > Krishnaarpanamastu,> Narasimha> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -> Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam> Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana> Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom> Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.

home.comcast. net> Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org> Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

October 24, 2008

Hare Rama Krsna ||Dear Narasimha,On page 1 of your article you state that Pandit Sanjay Rath "excludes pitri karaka in 7 karaka scheme". I believe you are mistaken. Please read the article entiltled - Atmakaraka - the final proof of two carakaraka schemes - section 1.2.2. I only have a paper copy but would be happy to scan it for you if you cannot get a copy of this to read. It is from the SJC USA Annual Conference 2003. Nowhere is this mentioned. In fact, half the paper has examples where pitri karaka is clearly mentioned in the 7 CK scheme (for political parties, space travel and other 'mundane astrology' Having made this error you may want to re-evaluate that paragraph.I have already asked, but

will ask again, how is it possible for a human being to have the same cara karaka for their mother as well as their child? How could it be possible to have the same soul level connection with your mom and your baby? Have you ever met anyone that has expressed such a bizzare scenario? I would be one of these people with 7 carakaraka and I cannot fathom how my daughter and my mother would be the same soul. Can you please explain.Expectantly,MichalNarasimha PVR Rao <pvrsohamsa ;

vedic astrology ; ; sjc-guru ; sjcBoston Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 5:59:21 AM Parasara on Chara Karakas: An Independent Interpretation

Namaste friends,

Here is the promised article on chara karakas. I have no pretensions that I got it correct. But this is based on an honest attempt to purge all preconceived notions from the mind and approach Parasara's verses with a fresh and unbiased mind.

In my view, neither the 7 chara karaka school nor the 8 chara karaka school got Parasara correct. Parasara taught that 7 chara karakas should be used in some charts and 8 chara karakas in some charts and clearly described when to use what.

I am trying to share whatever I was able to understand by reading Parasara's exposition on chara karakas with an open mind and then experimenting. If you think my interpretation has some worth in it, please use it, experiment, benefit and spread the knowledge. If not, just leave it.

I have uploaded a detailed article on chara karakas on my website. It describes the calculation with 16 examples, covering various cases. Apart from defining chara karaka calculation, this article also defines and uses a dasa called "Karaka dasa" that was taught by Parasara for the purpose of timing events using chara karakas. Please download the following PDF file if interested:

http://VedicAstrolo ger.org/articles /c_karaka. pdf

If you find the article useful, please feel free to forward this link to those who may be interested.

Krishnaarpanamastu,

Narasimha

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam

Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana

Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom

Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net

Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org

Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

October 24, 2008

Dear Michal,The most updated version of this paper is in the book Collected Papers in Vedic Astrology Vol I.Sarbani RathSent from my iPhoneOn Oct 24, 2008, at 1:58 PM, Michal Dziwulski <nearmichal wrote:

Hare Rama Krsna ||Dear Narasimha,On page 1 of your article you state that Pandit Sanjay Rath "excludes pitri karaka in 7 karaka scheme". I believe you are mistaken. Please read the article entiltled - Atmakaraka - the final proof of two carakaraka schemes - section 1.2.2. I only have a paper copy but would be happy to scan it for you if you cannot get a copy of this to read. It is from the SJC USA Annual Conference 2003. Nowhere is this mentioned. In fact, half the paper has examples where pitri karaka is clearly mentioned in the 7 CK scheme (for political parties, space travel and other 'mundane astrology' Having made this error you may want to re-evaluate that paragraph.I have already asked, but

will ask again, how is it possible for a human being to have the same cara karaka for their mother as well as their child? How could it be possible to have the same soul level connection with your mom and your baby? Have you ever met anyone that has expressed such a bizzare scenario? I would be one of these people with 7 carakaraka and I cannot fathom how my daughter and my mother would be the same soul. Can you please explain.Expectantly,MichalNarasimha PVR Rao <pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net>sohamsa ;

vedic astrology ; ; sjc-guru ; sjcBoston Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 5:59:21 AM Parasara on Chara Karakas: An Independent Interpretation

Namaste friends,

Here is the promised article on chara karakas. I have no pretensions that I got it correct. But this is based on an honest attempt to purge all preconceived notions from the mind and approach Parasara's verses with a fresh and unbiased mind.

In my view, neither the 7 chara karaka school nor the 8 chara karaka school got Parasara correct. Parasara taught that 7 chara karakas should be used in some charts and 8 chara karakas in some charts and clearly described when to use what.

I am trying to share whatever I was able to understand by reading Parasara's exposition on chara karakas with an open mind and then experimenting. If you think my interpretation has some worth in it, please use it, experiment, benefit and spread the knowledge. If not, just leave it.

I have uploaded a detailed article on chara karakas on my website. It describes the calculation with 16 examples, covering various cases. Apart from defining chara karaka calculation, this article also defines and uses a dasa called "Karaka dasa" that was taught by Parasara for the purpose of timing events using chara karakas. Please download the following PDF file if interested:

http://VedicAstrolo ger.org/articles /c_karaka. pdf

If you find the article useful, please feel free to forward this link to those who may be interested.

Krishnaarpanamastu,

Narasimha

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam

Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana

Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom

Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net

Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org

Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

October 24, 2008

Dear Narasimhaji,

Well written article, but it is hard to prematurely jump to the

conclusion that yours is an unambiguous intepretation in totality.

There are points that need to be addressed, and perhaps this is why

parampara interpretations have reigned so far. Here are the points

that I see:

1) First, is your literal translation agreed upon by all scholars?

2) Then, the translation " Now I am speaking of.... Thus, only seven

significators [in some] and eight in some are considered " is pretty

unambiguous, i.e. that Rahu should be considered when 2 planets are

at equal degrees. There seems to be no room for any doubt here at

all - which brings up the question for an uninformed observer like

myself - did the parampara interpreters earlier disregard these

statements completely?

3) Next, try as I might, the statement: " One with higher degrees

becomes higher karaka, one with less degrees becomes lower karaka,

and one in the middle becomes lower karaka " seems completely

redundant, wouldnt you say? I mean if we accept your interpretation

(not translation, but interpretation), then the above statement

seems completely redundant, because it is saying exactly the same

thing as the immediately following one, i.e. " By arranging in the

decreasing and decreasing order of degrees, chara karakas are to be

found " . Note that you write " decreasing and decreasing " - do you

mean increasing and decreasing? Why would Parasara throw in a

completely redundant and useless statement i.e. the first one? It

would seem logical to assume that the statement needed to convey

some EXTRA meaning, but it doesnt according to your interpretation -

you seem to give no weight to him distributing karakas in 3

categories, lower, middle and higher? In fact, by your

interpretation, the distributing into 3 categories seems totally

illogical and unnecessary, then.. I mean I can as easily

artificially create 5 categories by saying " One with extremely high

degrees becomes extremely higher karaka, one with high degrees

become higher karaka, one with middle degrees becomes middle karaka,

one with lower degrees becomes lower karaka, and one with extremely

low degrees become extremely lower karaka " . As you can see, my

creation is simply meaningless verbiage - there is no meaningful use

of the 5 categories, exactly as there appears to be no meaningful

use of the 3 categories Parasara has created, according to your

interpretation. So net result - in your interpretation, this triple

categorization of Parasara seems to be a useless additional

statement, which consequently brings a certain amount of doubt to

your interpretation.

4) Next and very important, the use of " degrees " . Your

interpretation is hinged tightly on the word " self " in " Learned men

should not take SELF from only degrees [and use upto seconds] " . It

is quite possible he means this in general as well i.e. to always

use seconds when deciding the charakaraka. If so, the entire

interpretation changes. Now, if you re-read the entire thing keeping

in mind that by degrees, Parasara GENERALLY actually means

degrees+minutes+seconds (DMS) and not degrees only (DO). Because

then Rahu would come in when two planets have the same DMS only (a

very rare occurrence)!! So this would lend a lot of credibility to

KN Rao's thesis, that we should use 7 karakas. All I'm saying is:

it is hard to accept your interpretation as totally unambiguous.

5) You have clearly interpreted one line as " If two planets are

equal in degrees in one's birth chart, O excellent brahmin, the

absence of higher significator only is to be learnt " . Again, the

devil is in the details. Is it unambiguously " absence " or might it

be " disappearance " ? The difference being: Disappearance, as you know

implies something was present and THEN disappeared, whereas absence

means " never present " . Does the Sanskrit word actually imply

absence, and NOT disappearance? Because the entire CK replacement

theory hinges on that minor detail.

6) I am missing the part where he says when two grahas have a

conflict, who takes the lower karakatwa? Ok, the higher karakatwa

gets absent, but why does the highest DMS planet take the lower

karakatwa? I assume this is a logical deduction, motivated solely by

the need to be able to complete the karaka assignment?

Sorry for the pointed questioning, but in general I would love to

see some deeper discussion before simply throwing everything out of

the back door.. Would love to see what other Gurus, especially

Sanjayji, have to say..

Regards,

Sundeep

October 24, 2008

Namaste Michal,

If I mis-remembered any details of Pt Sanjay Rath's view and

misrepresented, I apologize and I will correct myself in a later

edition. However, the point remains that Pt Rath ignored the directive

from Parasara to include Rahu based on two planets being in the same

degree and he brought in the mundane vs beings distinction that

Parasara did not mention.

Regarding MK and PK overlapping in 7 karakas, well, this confusion is

due to preconceived notions:

> I cannot fathom how my daughter and my mother would be the same soul.

Each karaka does NOT represent a specific soul. By your logic, one

with 3 children should have 3 different planets as PKs representing

the 3 souls that came as children!!! After all, if one has 3 children,

all the three have different " soul " and different " soul level

connection " . Still, the same planet (PK) shows all of them. If you are

ok with it, what is your problem with mother?

Moreover, PK does not only show " baby " . Parasara said AK and PK being

together, especially in 1st/5th, is a great raja yoga. If PK only

shows baby, that makes no sense. Obviously, PK shows children and also

those who follow one.

Please remember that nine planets and twelve rasis are representing

thousands of things about us.

Just as a minister in a government cabinet may sometimes take care of

multiple portfolios, a planet may take care of multiple portfolios

(significations).

Each chara karaka shows connection with many many people. Apart from

rasi and navamsa, we have multiple charts for differentiation (D-10

for career connections, D-12 for parental connections, D-7 for progeny

connections, D-20 for religious connections, D-24 for academic

connections etc).

Even in the 8 karaka case, a planet may disappear and a sthira karaka

may get a portfolio. Thus, one planet may end up getting multiple

portfolios. If you have philosophical problems with it, it may be

because of too much of questionable philosophizing and theorizing before.

Best regards,

Narasimha

Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam

Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana

Spirituality:

Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

sohamsa , Michal Dziwulski <nearmichal wrote:

>

> Hare Rama Krsna ||

>

> Dear Narasimha,

>

> On page 1 of your article you state that Pandit Sanjay Rath

" excludes pitri karaka in 7 karaka scheme " . I believe you are

mistaken. Please read the article entiltled - Atmakaraka - the final

proof of two carakaraka schemes - section 1.2.2. I only have a paper

copy but would be happy to scan it for you if you cannot get a copy of

this to read. It is from the SJC USA Annual Conference 2003. Nowhere

is this mentioned. In fact, half the paper has examples where pitri

karaka is clearly mentioned in the 7 CK scheme (for political parties,

space travel and other 'mundane astrology' Having made this error

you may want to re-evaluate that paragraph.

>

> I have already asked, but will ask again, how is it possible for a

human being to have the same cara karaka for their mother as well as

their child? How could it be possible to have the same soul level

connection with your mom and your baby? Have you ever met anyone that

has expressed such a bizzare scenario? I would be one of these people

with 7 carakaraka and I cannot fathom how my daughter and my mother

would be the same soul. Can you please explain.

>

> Expectantly,

> Michal

>

> ________________________________

> Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr

> sohamsa ; vedic astrology ;

; sjc-guru ;

sjcBoston

> Friday, October 24, 2008 5:59:21 AM

> Parasara on Chara Karakas: An Independent

Interpretation

>

> Namaste friends,

>

> Here is the promised article on chara karakas. I have no pretensions

that I got it correct. But this is based on an honest attempt to purge

all preconceived notions from the mind and approach Parasara's verses

with a fresh and unbiased mind.

>

> In my view, neither the 7 chara karaka school nor the 8 chara karaka

school got Parasara correct. Parasara taught that 7 chara karakas

should be used in some charts and 8 chara karakas in some charts and

clearly described when to use what.

>

> I am trying to share whatever I was able to understand by reading

Parasara's exposition on chara karakas with an open mind and then

experimenting. If you think my interpretation has some worth in it,

please use it, experiment, benefit and spread the knowledge. If not,

just leave it.

>

> I have uploaded a detailed article on chara karakas on my website.

It describes the calculation with 16 examples, covering various cases.

Apart from defining chara karaka calculation, this article also

defines and uses a dasa called " Karaka dasa " that was taught by

Parasara for the purpose of timing events using chara karakas. Please

download the following PDF file if interested:

>

> http://VedicAstrolo ger.org/articles /c_karaka. pdf

>

> If you find the article useful, please feel free to forward this

link to those who may be interested.

>

> Krishnaarpanamastu,

> Narasimha

October 24, 2008

Namaste Sundeep,

Excellent questions! I am pleased.

The interpretation I shared is based on mulling over possible

interpretations and evaluating them practically. Luckily, karaka dasa

was there and served as a relatively objective test. I came to a

conclusion after considering various possibilities and fully

satisfying *myself* that this was the best.

* * *

1. :-) Even a literal translation would depend on some

contextualization in a language like Sanskrit. Unfortunately, most

Sanskrit scholars are not into astrology. Most astrologers out there

are not really Sanskrit scholars.

2. Depends on who you are talking about. Jaimini commentator Iranganti

Rangacharya quotes Vriddha karika and Nilakantha and does take 7

karakas in some charts and 8 in some, based on two planets being in

the same degree. Thus, there WERE some people before who considered

Rahu conditionally, based on two planets being in the same degree. I

am not the first one. I deviated from them in other aspects, but the

aspect of considering Rahu conditionally based on two planets being in

the same degree was there before. I think that particular verse of

Parasara is quite clear.

Why some paramparas ignored the verse is unclear to me. However,

please realize that a parampara is only as good as its weakest link.

People in a parampara can change knowledge or add things to it.

3. I don't see it as redundant. If you see it that way and think that

it has some extra meaning, please propose it! :-)

4. If you interpret it that way and go towards the theory of Sri KN

Rao, there is one problem. Parasara's later verse on the absence of

higher portfolio and judgment using sthira karaka when two planets are

in the same degree would be rendered meaningless. I had to balance

that directive with the specific directive regarding atma karaka.

As I said, I considered several possibilities and put them to test

with several charts.

5. The word in question means " absence " and the context strengthens

that meaning. Moreover, Parasara says " the results of that portfolio

should be learnt from sthira karaka " and does not qualify that further!

6. It was a logical deduction and one that can certainly be

questioned. I considered other possibilities, but this worked better

practically. This is one thing where I am not 100% sure.

7. Though you did not ask, I will add a question: " Did Parasara

specifically teach about the second cycle in karaka dasa? " Answer is

no. As far as the first cycle of karaka dasa is concerned, Parasara's

teachings are unambiguous and crystal clear. The second and third

cycles were a logical deduction of mine. But I am almost 100% sure

that I got it correct.

* * *

As I said, this is based on my best effort. Is it 100% correct? I

don't know. But I am pretty confident that this is far more correct

than anything else out there. Others may have other views. :-)

Best regards,

Narasimha

Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam

Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana

Spirituality:

Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

sohamsa , " vedicastrostudent "

<vedicastrostudent wrote:

>

> Dear Narasimhaji,

> Well written article, but it is hard to prematurely jump to the

> conclusion that yours is an unambiguous intepretation in totality.

> There are points that need to be addressed, and perhaps this is why

> parampara interpretations have reigned so far. Here are the points

> that I see:

>

> 1) First, is your literal translation agreed upon by all scholars?

>

> 2) Then, the translation " Now I am speaking of.... Thus, only seven

> significators [in some] and eight in some are considered " is pretty

> unambiguous, i.e. that Rahu should be considered when 2 planets are

> at equal degrees. There seems to be no room for any doubt here at

> all - which brings up the question for an uninformed observer like

> myself - did the parampara interpreters earlier disregard these

> statements completely?

>

> 3) Next, try as I might, the statement: " One with higher degrees

> becomes higher karaka, one with less degrees becomes lower karaka,

> and one in the middle becomes lower karaka " seems completely

> redundant, wouldnt you say? I mean if we accept your interpretation

> (not translation, but interpretation), then the above statement

> seems completely redundant, because it is saying exactly the same

> thing as the immediately following one, i.e. " By arranging in the

> decreasing and decreasing order of degrees, chara karakas are to be

> found " . Note that you write " decreasing and decreasing " - do you

> mean increasing and decreasing? Why would Parasara throw in a

> completely redundant and useless statement i.e. the first one? It

> would seem logical to assume that the statement needed to convey

> some EXTRA meaning, but it doesnt according to your interpretation -

> you seem to give no weight to him distributing karakas in 3

> categories, lower, middle and higher? In fact, by your

> interpretation, the distributing into 3 categories seems totally

> illogical and unnecessary, then.. I mean I can as easily

> artificially create 5 categories by saying " One with extremely high

> degrees becomes extremely higher karaka, one with high degrees

> become higher karaka, one with middle degrees becomes middle karaka,

> one with lower degrees becomes lower karaka, and one with extremely

> low degrees become extremely lower karaka " . As you can see, my

> creation is simply meaningless verbiage - there is no meaningful use

> of the 5 categories, exactly as there appears to be no meaningful

> use of the 3 categories Parasara has created, according to your

> interpretation. So net result - in your interpretation, this triple

> categorization of Parasara seems to be a useless additional

> statement, which consequently brings a certain amount of doubt to

> your interpretation.

>

> 4) Next and very important, the use of " degrees " . Your

> interpretation is hinged tightly on the word " self " in " Learned men

> should not take SELF from only degrees [and use upto seconds] " . It

> is quite possible he means this in general as well i.e. to always

> use seconds when deciding the charakaraka. If so, the entire

> interpretation changes. Now, if you re-read the entire thing keeping

> in mind that by degrees, Parasara GENERALLY actually means

> degrees+minutes+seconds (DMS) and not degrees only (DO). Because

> then Rahu would come in when two planets have the same DMS only (a

> very rare occurrence)!! So this would lend a lot of credibility to

> KN Rao's thesis, that we should use 7 karakas. All I'm saying is:

> it is hard to accept your interpretation as totally unambiguous.

>

> 5) You have clearly interpreted one line as " If two planets are

> equal in degrees in one's birth chart, O excellent brahmin, the

> absence of higher significator only is to be learnt " . Again, the

> devil is in the details. Is it unambiguously " absence " or might it

> be " disappearance " ? The difference being: Disappearance, as you know

> implies something was present and THEN disappeared, whereas absence

> means " never present " . Does the Sanskrit word actually imply

> absence, and NOT disappearance? Because the entire CK replacement

> theory hinges on that minor detail.

>

> 6) I am missing the part where he says when two grahas have a

> conflict, who takes the lower karakatwa? Ok, the higher karakatwa

> gets absent, but why does the highest DMS planet take the lower

> karakatwa? I assume this is a logical deduction, motivated solely by

> the need to be able to complete the karaka assignment?

>

> Sorry for the pointed questioning, but in general I would love to

> see some deeper discussion before simply throwing everything out of

> the back door.. Would love to see what other Gurus, especially

> Sanjayji, have to say..

>

> Regards,

>

> Sundeep

October 24, 2008

Dear Narasimhaji,

Thank you, I am glad you liked the questions. But I have remaining

doubts which are inlined, prefixed with <Sundeep>:

sohamsa , " Narasimha Rao " <pvr wrote:

>

> Namaste Sundeep,

>

> Excellent questions! I am pleased.

>

> The interpretation I shared is based on mulling over possible

> interpretations and evaluating them practically. Luckily, karaka

dasa

> was there and served as a relatively objective test. I came to a

> conclusion after considering various possibilities and fully

> satisfying *myself* that this was the best.

>

> * * *

>

> 1. :-) Even a literal translation would depend on some

> contextualization in a language like Sanskrit. Unfortunately, most

> Sanskrit scholars are not into astrology. Most astrologers out

there

> are not really Sanskrit scholars.

>

> 2. Depends on who you are talking about. Jaimini commentator

Iranganti

> Rangacharya quotes Vriddha karika and Nilakantha and does take 7

> karakas in some charts and 8 in some, based on two planets being in

> the same degree. Thus, there WERE some people before who considered

> Rahu conditionally, based on two planets being in the same degree.

I

> am not the first one. I deviated from them in other aspects, but

the

> aspect of considering Rahu conditionally based on two planets

being in

> the same degree was there before. I think that particular verse of

> Parasara is quite clear.

>

> Why some paramparas ignored the verse is unclear to me. However,

> please realize that a parampara is only as good as its weakest

link.

> People in a parampara can change knowledge or add things to it.

>

> 3. I don't see it as redundant. If you see it that way and think

that

> it has some extra meaning, please propose it! :-)

<Sundeep> If it isnt redundant, then what is the meaning of Parasara

presenting this three fold division of higher, middle and lower,

when he has already indicated in the very next line that they should

be arranged in decreasing order?

>

> 4. If you interpret it that way and go towards the theory of Sri KN

> Rao, there is one problem. Parasara's later verse on the absence of

> higher portfolio and judgment using sthira karaka when two planets

are

> in the same degree would be rendered meaningless. I had to balance

> that directive with the specific directive regarding atma karaka.

>

<Sundeep> Not really, it still has meaning. If you take the

alternate meaning that I considered, then if N planets have the same

DMS (degree, minute, second), and they are all contesting for CK

positions P to P+N-1, then Parasara's sthira karaka verse would mean

that you assign sthira karakas from P to P+N-2, and that at position

P+N-1, you have this collection of N planets. This is why I asked

whether the idea of the " winner being the higher degree planet at

P+N-1 " was explicitly advised and you agreed it wasnt, that it was a

logical deduction. That deduction wouldnt be necessary if you took

my above interpretation.

In addition, both your interpretation AND mine suffer from one flaw -

lets say 2 planets including the AK have the same DMS. You will

need to assign 8 CKs. 2 planets go to AK because there is no way to

disambiguate them. 6 planets remaining (including Rahu), 7 positions

to fill. What to do with the last position? You may say sthira

karaka as a logical consequence, nevertheless it is not explicit.

Regards,

Sundeep

> As I said, I considered several possibilities and put them to test

> with several charts.

>

> 5. The word in question means " absence " and the context strengthens

> that meaning. Moreover, Parasara says " the results of that

portfolio

> should be learnt from sthira karaka " and does not qualify that

further!

>

> 6. It was a logical deduction and one that can certainly be

> questioned. I considered other possibilities, but this worked

better

> practically. This is one thing where I am not 100% sure.

>

> 7. Though you did not ask, I will add a question: " Did Parasara

> specifically teach about the second cycle in karaka dasa? " Answer

is

> no. As far as the first cycle of karaka dasa is concerned,

Parasara's

> teachings are unambiguous and crystal clear. The second and third

> cycles were a logical deduction of mine. But I am almost 100% sure

> that I got it correct.

>

> * * *

>

> As I said, this is based on my best effort. Is it 100% correct? I

> don't know. But I am pretty confident that this is far more correct

> than anything else out there. Others may have other views. :-)

>

> Best regards,

> Narasimha

>

> Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam

> Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana

> Spirituality:

> Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

> Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

>

> sohamsa , " vedicastrostudent "

> <vedicastrostudent@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Narasimhaji,

> > Well written article, but it is hard to prematurely jump to the

> > conclusion that yours is an unambiguous intepretation in

totality.

> > There are points that need to be addressed, and perhaps this is

why

> > parampara interpretations have reigned so far. Here are the

points

> > that I see:

> >

> > 1) First, is your literal translation agreed upon by all

scholars?

> >

> > 2) Then, the translation " Now I am speaking of.... Thus, only

seven

> > significators [in some] and eight in some are considered " is

pretty

> > unambiguous, i.e. that Rahu should be considered when 2 planets

are

> > at equal degrees. There seems to be no room for any doubt here

at

> > all - which brings up the question for an uninformed observer

like

> > myself - did the parampara interpreters earlier disregard these

> > statements completely?

> >

> > 3) Next, try as I might, the statement: " One with higher degrees

> > becomes higher karaka, one with less degrees becomes lower

karaka,

> > and one in the middle becomes lower karaka " seems completely

> > redundant, wouldnt you say? I mean if we accept your

interpretation

> > (not translation, but interpretation), then the above statement

> > seems completely redundant, because it is saying exactly the

same

> > thing as the immediately following one, i.e. " By arranging in

the

> > decreasing and decreasing order of degrees, chara karakas are to

be

> > found " . Note that you write " decreasing and decreasing " - do you

> > mean increasing and decreasing? Why would Parasara throw in a

> > completely redundant and useless statement i.e. the first one?

It

> > would seem logical to assume that the statement needed to convey

> > some EXTRA meaning, but it doesnt according to your

interpretation -

> > you seem to give no weight to him distributing karakas in 3

> > categories, lower, middle and higher? In fact, by your

> > interpretation, the distributing into 3 categories seems totally

> > illogical and unnecessary, then.. I mean I can as easily

> > artificially create 5 categories by saying " One with extremely

high

> > degrees becomes extremely higher karaka, one with high degrees

> > become higher karaka, one with middle degrees becomes middle

karaka,

> > one with lower degrees becomes lower karaka, and one with

extremely

> > low degrees become extremely lower karaka " . As you can see, my

> > creation is simply meaningless verbiage - there is no meaningful

use

> > of the 5 categories, exactly as there appears to be no

meaningful

> > use of the 3 categories Parasara has created, according to your

> > interpretation. So net result - in your interpretation, this

triple

> > categorization of Parasara seems to be a useless additional

> > statement, which consequently brings a certain amount of doubt

to

> > your interpretation.

> >

> > 4) Next and very important, the use of " degrees " . Your

> > interpretation is hinged tightly on the word " self " in " Learned

men

> > should not take SELF from only degrees [and use upto seconds] " .

It

> > is quite possible he means this in general as well i.e. to

always

> > use seconds when deciding the charakaraka. If so, the entire

> > interpretation changes. Now, if you re-read the entire thing

keeping

> > in mind that by degrees, Parasara GENERALLY actually means

> > degrees+minutes+seconds (DMS) and not degrees only (DO). Because

> > then Rahu would come in when two planets have the same DMS only

(a

> > very rare occurrence)!! So this would lend a lot of credibility

to

> > KN Rao's thesis, that we should use 7 karakas. All I'm saying

is:

> > it is hard to accept your interpretation as totally unambiguous.

> >

> > 5) You have clearly interpreted one line as " If two planets are

> > equal in degrees in one's birth chart, O excellent brahmin, the

> > absence of higher significator only is to be learnt " . Again, the

> > devil is in the details. Is it unambiguously " absence " or might

it

> > be " disappearance " ? The difference being: Disappearance, as you

know

> > implies something was present and THEN disappeared, whereas

absence

> > means " never present " . Does the Sanskrit word actually imply

> > absence, and NOT disappearance? Because the entire CK

replacement

> > theory hinges on that minor detail.

> >

> > 6) I am missing the part where he says when two grahas have a

> > conflict, who takes the lower karakatwa? Ok, the higher

karakatwa

> > gets absent, but why does the highest DMS planet take the lower

> > karakatwa? I assume this is a logical deduction, motivated

solely by

> > the need to be able to complete the karaka assignment?

> >

> > Sorry for the pointed questioning, but in general I would love

to

> > see some deeper discussion before simply throwing everything out

of

> > the back door.. Would love to see what other Gurus, especially

> > Sanjayji, have to say..

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> > Sundeep

>

October 24, 2008

Namaste Sundeep,

> <Sundeep> If it isnt redundant, then what is the meaning of Parasara

> presenting this three fold division of higher, middle and lower,

> when he has already indicated in the very next line that they should

> be arranged in decreasing order?

Redundancy in explaining things is a subjective concept. We cannot

objectively discuss it!

The next line only says to arrange the planets in decreasing order to

find karakas. The first line says that first one gets first karaka,

last one gets last karaka etc. Basically, second line tells what order

to arrange planets in and the first line tells what order to map

karakas to these planets. I do not see redundancy.

> <Sundeep> Not really, it still has meaning. If you take the

> alternate meaning that I considered, then if N planets have the same

> DMS (degree, minute, second), and they are all contesting for CK

> positions P to P+N-1, then Parasara's sthira karaka verse would mean

> that you assign sthira karakas from P to P+N-2, and that at position

> P+N-1, you have this collection of N planets. This is why I asked

Well, Parasara used only degrees in that verse. He did not say

degrees, minutes and seconds.

Best regards,

Narasimha

Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam

Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana

Spirituality:

Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

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sohamsa , " vedicastrostudent "

<vedicastrostudent wrote:

>

> Dear Narasimhaji,

> Thank you, I am glad you liked the questions. But I have remaining

> doubts which are inlined, prefixed with <Sundeep>:

>

> sohamsa , " Narasimha Rao " <pvr@> wrote:

> >

> > Namaste Sundeep,

> >

> > Excellent questions! I am pleased.

> >

> > The interpretation I shared is based on mulling over possible

> > interpretations and evaluating them practically. Luckily, karaka

> dasa

> > was there and served as a relatively objective test. I came to a

> > conclusion after considering various possibilities and fully

> > satisfying *myself* that this was the best.

> >

> > * * *

> >

> > 1. :-) Even a literal translation would depend on some

> > contextualization in a language like Sanskrit. Unfortunately, most

> > Sanskrit scholars are not into astrology. Most astrologers out

> there

> > are not really Sanskrit scholars.

> >

> > 2. Depends on who you are talking about. Jaimini commentator

> Iranganti

> > Rangacharya quotes Vriddha karika and Nilakantha and does take 7

> > karakas in some charts and 8 in some, based on two planets being in

> > the same degree. Thus, there WERE some people before who considered

> > Rahu conditionally, based on two planets being in the same degree.

> I

> > am not the first one. I deviated from them in other aspects, but

> the

> > aspect of considering Rahu conditionally based on two planets

> being in

> > the same degree was there before. I think that particular verse of

> > Parasara is quite clear.

> >

> > Why some paramparas ignored the verse is unclear to me. However,

> > please realize that a parampara is only as good as its weakest

> link.

> > People in a parampara can change knowledge or add things to it.

> >

> > 3. I don't see it as redundant. If you see it that way and think

> that

> > it has some extra meaning, please propose it! :-)

>

> <Sundeep> If it isnt redundant, then what is the meaning of Parasara

> presenting this three fold division of higher, middle and lower,

> when he has already indicated in the very next line that they should

> be arranged in decreasing order?

>

> >

> > 4. If you interpret it that way and go towards the theory of Sri KN

> > Rao, there is one problem. Parasara's later verse on the absence of

> > higher portfolio and judgment using sthira karaka when two planets

> are

> > in the same degree would be rendered meaningless. I had to balance

> > that directive with the specific directive regarding atma karaka.

> >

>

> <Sundeep> Not really, it still has meaning. If you take the

> alternate meaning that I considered, then if N planets have the same

> DMS (degree, minute, second), and they are all contesting for CK

> positions P to P+N-1, then Parasara's sthira karaka verse would mean

> that you assign sthira karakas from P to P+N-2, and that at position

> P+N-1, you have this collection of N planets. This is why I asked

> whether the idea of the " winner being the higher degree planet at

> P+N-1 " was explicitly advised and you agreed it wasnt, that it was a

> logical deduction. That deduction wouldnt be necessary if you took

> my above interpretation.

>

> In addition, both your interpretation AND mine suffer from one flaw -

> lets say 2 planets including the AK have the same DMS. You will

> need to assign 8 CKs. 2 planets go to AK because there is no way to

> disambiguate them. 6 planets remaining (including Rahu), 7 positions

> to fill. What to do with the last position? You may say sthira

> karaka as a logical consequence, nevertheless it is not explicit.

>

> Regards,

>

> Sundeep

>

> > As I said, I considered several possibilities and put them to test

> > with several charts.

> >

> > 5. The word in question means " absence " and the context strengthens

> > that meaning. Moreover, Parasara says " the results of that

> portfolio

> > should be learnt from sthira karaka " and does not qualify that

> further!

> >

> > 6. It was a logical deduction and one that can certainly be

> > questioned. I considered other possibilities, but this worked

> better

> > practically. This is one thing where I am not 100% sure.

> >

> > 7. Though you did not ask, I will add a question: " Did Parasara

> > specifically teach about the second cycle in karaka dasa? " Answer

> is

> > no. As far as the first cycle of karaka dasa is concerned,

> Parasara's

> > teachings are unambiguous and crystal clear. The second and third

> > cycles were a logical deduction of mine. But I am almost 100% sure

> > that I got it correct.

> >

> > * * *

> >

> > As I said, this is based on my best effort. Is it 100% correct? I

> > don't know. But I am pretty confident that this is far more correct

> > than anything else out there. Others may have other views. :-)

> >

> > Best regards,

> > Narasimha

> >

> > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam

> > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana

> > Spirituality:

> > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

> > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

> >

> > sohamsa , " vedicastrostudent "

> > <vedicastrostudent@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Narasimhaji,

> > > Well written article, but it is hard to prematurely jump to the

> > > conclusion that yours is an unambiguous intepretation in

> totality.

> > > There are points that need to be addressed, and perhaps this is

> why

> > > parampara interpretations have reigned so far. Here are the

> points

> > > that I see:

> > >

> > > 1) First, is your literal translation agreed upon by all

> scholars?

> > >

> > > 2) Then, the translation " Now I am speaking of.... Thus, only

> seven

> > > significators [in some] and eight in some are considered " is

> pretty

> > > unambiguous, i.e. that Rahu should be considered when 2 planets

> are

> > > at equal degrees. There seems to be no room for any doubt here

> at

> > > all - which brings up the question for an uninformed observer

> like

> > > myself - did the parampara interpreters earlier disregard these

> > > statements completely?

> > >

> > > 3) Next, try as I might, the statement: " One with higher degrees

> > > becomes higher karaka, one with less degrees becomes lower

> karaka,

> > > and one in the middle becomes lower karaka " seems completely

> > > redundant, wouldnt you say? I mean if we accept your

> interpretation

> > > (not translation, but interpretation), then the above statement

> > > seems completely redundant, because it is saying exactly the

> same

> > > thing as the immediately following one, i.e. " By arranging in

> the

> > > decreasing and decreasing order of degrees, chara karakas are to

> be

> > > found " . Note that you write " decreasing and decreasing " - do you

> > > mean increasing and decreasing? Why would Parasara throw in a

> > > completely redundant and useless statement i.e. the first one?

> It

> > > would seem logical to assume that the statement needed to convey

> > > some EXTRA meaning, but it doesnt according to your

> interpretation -

> > > you seem to give no weight to him distributing karakas in 3

> > > categories, lower, middle and higher? In fact, by your

> > > interpretation, the distributing into 3 categories seems totally

> > > illogical and unnecessary, then.. I mean I can as easily

> > > artificially create 5 categories by saying " One with extremely

> high

> > > degrees becomes extremely higher karaka, one with high degrees

> > > become higher karaka, one with middle degrees becomes middle

> karaka,

> > > one with lower degrees becomes lower karaka, and one with

> extremely

> > > low degrees become extremely lower karaka " . As you can see, my

> > > creation is simply meaningless verbiage - there is no meaningful

> use

> > > of the 5 categories, exactly as there appears to be no

> meaningful

> > > use of the 3 categories Parasara has created, according to your

> > > interpretation. So net result - in your interpretation, this

> triple

> > > categorization of Parasara seems to be a useless additional

> > > statement, which consequently brings a certain amount of doubt

> to

> > > your interpretation.

> > >

> > > 4) Next and very important, the use of " degrees " . Your

> > > interpretation is hinged tightly on the word " self " in " Learned

> men

> > > should not take SELF from only degrees [and use upto seconds] " .

> It

> > > is quite possible he means this in general as well i.e. to

> always

> > > use seconds when deciding the charakaraka. If so, the entire

> > > interpretation changes. Now, if you re-read the entire thing

> keeping

> > > in mind that by degrees, Parasara GENERALLY actually means

> > > degrees+minutes+seconds (DMS) and not degrees only (DO). Because

> > > then Rahu would come in when two planets have the same DMS only

> (a

> > > very rare occurrence)!! So this would lend a lot of credibility

> to

> > > KN Rao's thesis, that we should use 7 karakas. All I'm saying

> is:

> > > it is hard to accept your interpretation as totally unambiguous.

> > >

> > > 5) You have clearly interpreted one line as " If two planets are

> > > equal in degrees in one's birth chart, O excellent brahmin, the

> > > absence of higher significator only is to be learnt " . Again, the

> > > devil is in the details. Is it unambiguously " absence " or might

> it

> > > be " disappearance " ? The difference being: Disappearance, as you

> know

> > > implies something was present and THEN disappeared, whereas

> absence

> > > means " never present " . Does the Sanskrit word actually imply

> > > absence, and NOT disappearance? Because the entire CK

> replacement

> > > theory hinges on that minor detail.

> > >

> > > 6) I am missing the part where he says when two grahas have a

> > > conflict, who takes the lower karakatwa? Ok, the higher

> karakatwa

> > > gets absent, but why does the highest DMS planet take the lower

> > > karakatwa? I assume this is a logical deduction, motivated

> solely by

> > > the need to be able to complete the karaka assignment?

> > >

> > > Sorry for the pointed questioning, but in general I would love

> to

> > > see some deeper discussion before simply throwing everything out

> of

> > > the back door.. Would love to see what other Gurus, especially

> > > Sanjayji, have to say..

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > >

> > > Sundeep

> >

>

October 25, 2008

Hare Rama Krsna ||Dear Narasimha,If you 'mis-remembered' this particular detail then it is possible that you may have missed some other points also. You should really read the article thouroughly as it is distasteful to release your own interpretations publicly if they have such blatant misrepresentation of a scholars work. Furthermore, you use your failed understanding to discredit another.I am surprised that someone with your learning would expect Maharishi Parasara to be blatant - so that anyone can pick up the book and begin applying principles. Jyotish is an occult 8th house subject so the meanings are obviously concealed and hidden. There are many reasons for this. Parasara did not mention mundane and human charts explicitly, but rather expects

that you will draw from other sources of knowledge and come to this understanding. There are many things that are mentioned in Parasara, but the Maharishi expects that you will look to other sources of knowledge (why should he repeat it?). For example chaturdashi and amavasya dosa - the Puranas are there and they give us the basis for these (Moon betrayed Guru on chaturdashi). If we only looked to BPHS for our understanding of chaturdashi dosa then how far would we get? In this way all knowledge is interlinked and by narrowing oneself to

one verse to explain something as massive as cara karakas you are doing yourself a disservice. To be obvious and literal in one's interpretation is akin to those who believe the earth is only 6000 years old because the bible states this. Intelligent people realise that that verse in the bible is not the only piece of information and understand that it is implying far more than what is there prima facie. Parasara is far deeper than this literal translation.******************************I agree with you that the carakaraka are not showing specific souls but are showing the different aspects of our own soul. It is very personal (unlike sthira which is applicable to everyone), internal, and more of a 'feeling'. Every individual child that one has is grouped into what we call "children" and our feeling towards our "children" is shown by the Putrakaraka. We may feel differently towards each individual child

based on superficial things such as personalities, charachter etc. However everyone has a certain approach, a feeling towards their "children" which goes beyond each of their indivduality. This, in my experience, is very different to how people feel about their mother. The merging of the MK and PK as you are suggesting should be apparent in real life. But I do not see a lot of people who would say the way they feel about their children is identical to the way they feel about their mother. It is not a philosophical but a practical, experiential problem that I have with your premise. And I am only touching the surface. There are so many other questions that arise - why is it that PK merges with MK? Why not some other CK? According to your interpretation of Parasara's verses, do you feel the Maharishi explains this or do you have your own

explanation?Looking forward to your reply,MichalNarasimha Rao <pvrsohamsa Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:53:42 AM Re: Parasara on Chara Karakas: An Independent Interpretation

Namaste Michal,

If I mis-remembered any details of Pt Sanjay Rath's view and

misrepresented, I apologize and I will correct myself in a later

edition. However, the point remains that Pt Rath ignored the directive

from Parasara to include Rahu based on two planets being in the same

degree and he brought in the mundane vs beings distinction that

Parasara did not mention.

Regarding MK and PK overlapping in 7 karakas, well, this confusion is

due to preconceived notions:

> I cannot fathom how my daughter and my mother would be the same soul.

Each karaka does NOT represent a specific soul. By your logic, one

with 3 children should have 3 different planets as PKs representing

the 3 souls that came as children!!! After all, if one has 3 children,

all the three have different "soul" and different "soul level

connection". Still, the same planet (PK) shows all of them. If you are

ok with it, what is your problem with mother?

Moreover, PK does not only show "baby". Parasara said AK and PK being

together, especially in 1st/5th, is a great raja yoga. If PK only

shows baby, that makes no sense. Obviously, PK shows children and also

those who follow one.

Please remember that nine planets and twelve rasis are representing

thousands of things about us.

Just as a minister in a government cabinet may sometimes take care of

multiple portfolios, a planet may take care of multiple portfolios

(significations) .

Each chara karaka shows connection with many many people. Apart from

rasi and navamsa, we have multiple charts for differentiation (D-10

for career connections, D-12 for parental connections, D-7 for progeny

connections, D-20 for religious connections, D-24 for academic

connections etc).

Even in the 8 karaka case, a planet may disappear and a sthira karaka

may get a portfolio. Thus, one planet may end up getting multiple

portfolios. If you have philosophical problems with it, it may be

because of too much of questionable philosophizing and theorizing before.

Best regards,

Narasimha

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam

Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana

Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom

Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net

Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org

Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

sohamsa@ .com, Michal Dziwulski <nearmichal@ ...> wrote:

>

> Hare Rama Krsna ||

>

> Dear Narasimha,

>

> On page 1 of your article you state that Pandit Sanjay Rath

"excludes pitri karaka in 7 karaka scheme". I believe you are

mistaken. Please read the article entiltled - Atmakaraka - the final

proof of two carakaraka schemes - section 1.2.2. I only have a paper

copy but would be happy to scan it for you if you cannot get a copy of

this to read. It is from the SJC USA Annual Conference 2003. Nowhere

is this mentioned. In fact, half the paper has examples where pitri

karaka is clearly mentioned in the 7 CK scheme (for political parties,

space travel and other 'mundane astrology' Having made this error

you may want to re-evaluate that paragraph.

>

> I have already asked, but will ask again, how is it possible for a

human being to have the same cara karaka for their mother as well as

their child? How could it be possible to have the same soul level

connection with your mom and your baby? Have you ever met anyone that

has expressed such a bizzare scenario? I would be one of these people

with 7 carakaraka and I cannot fathom how my daughter and my mother

would be the same soul. Can you please explain.

>

> Expectantly,

> Michal

>

> ____________ _________ _________ __

> Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr

> sohamsa@ .com; vedic astrology;

; sjc-guru@ s.com;

sjcBoston@grou ps.com

> Friday, October 24, 2008 5:59:21 AM

> Parasara on Chara Karakas: An Independent

Interpretation

>

> Namaste friends,

>

> Here is the promised article on chara karakas. I have no pretensions

that I got it correct. But this is based on an honest attempt to purge

all preconceived notions from the mind and approach Parasara's verses

with a fresh and unbiased mind.

>

> In my view, neither the 7 chara karaka school nor the 8 chara karaka

school got Parasara correct. Parasara taught that 7 chara karakas

should be used in some charts and 8 chara karakas in some charts and

clearly described when to use what.

>

> I am trying to share whatever I was able to understand by reading

Parasara's exposition on chara karakas with an open mind and then

experimenting. If you think my interpretation has some worth in it,

please use it, experiment, benefit and spread the knowledge. If not,

just leave it.

>

> I have uploaded a detailed article on chara karakas on my website.

It describes the calculation with 16 examples, covering various cases.

Apart from defining chara karaka calculation, this article also

defines and uses a dasa called "Karaka dasa" that was taught by

Parasara for the purpose of timing events using chara karakas. Please

download the following PDF file if interested:

>

> http://VedicAstrolo ger.org/articles /c_karaka. pdf

>

> If you find the article useful, please feel free to forward this

link to those who may be interested.

>

> Krishnaarpanamastu,

> Narasimha

October 25, 2008

Dear Narasimha and Sundeep,

Thank you for spelling out these clarifications- I settled down for less, though - trusting that if any portfolio results are to be judged based on shtira karaka- and that seems to be clear instruction/ Parashara- than Nararisimha's interpretation on that higher-lower lever p., i.e. practical implementation of Parashara's 'instruction', DOES FILL that 'void'.

As I've written to some listers who asked me for the reasons why I accept this, although Narasimha didn't mention in the article what part was his interpretation, it is clear that just /clear/ direction is coming from Parashara. I've considered this from many angles, Narasimha's doesn't

violate this /precious/ direction in any way. It may not be the best interpretation, thanks Narasimha for mentioning that, but as 'working hypothesis' is seems still closer to the 'source' than others I've experimented with so far. CKDasa seems to work nicely, in dozen of charts I tested it on so far.

In my own chart, this interpretation resolves one major issue that's been bothering me for long time- Saturn and Me are at the same degree, Sa more advanced in minutes, becomes AmK- with all overstretching, Ju, Me, Ve aspects, 'additional' influences etc...Sa as my AmK was unacceptable and had nothing to do with my real-life profession, so I set it aside for a long time, as some 'idiosyncrasy' - Neither was Me as BK! Now I have ME as STIRA k. holding higher portfolio of AmK, and SA as BK. That fits- totally.

If you get construction worker and Ju AmK you would be suspicious, wouldn't you?- so was I. If Narasimha or whoever makes this interpretation more polished,

I'd go for it. But I feel this one is fundamentally correct. Intuitively as well.

2)-What I have set aside here is CLEAR 'middle' karaka

interpretation, lack of it. /Is that addressing well known decreasing ck order, or smth else.../

3/-I wasn't aware of 'second cycle' issue before, must admit. I assumed that would be just reasonable assumption?

4/ Forgive me if I complicate this with Rahu- i somehow feel that 7 or 8 ck's must have some deeper meaning in defining individual differences- not god or bad, as Narasimha said in response to my 'confusing' q. before. But,

Is there something different btw 2 indivuduals, one having 7 cks, another having Rahu experience introduced in such a MAJOR way /as Chara karaka/. I'd say must be.

I am not quite sure I've explained this Q clearly, hope you'll understand.

Looking forward to hearing more on this,

Yours,

Anna

--- On Fri, 1 0/24/08, Narasimha Rao <pvr wrote:

Narasimha Rao <pvr Re: Parasara on Chara Karakas: An Independent Interpretationsohamsa Date: Friday, October 24, 2008, 3:57 PM

Namaste Sundeep,Excellent questions! I am pleased.The interpretation I shared is based on mulling over possibleinterpretations and evaluating them practically. Luckily, karaka dasawas there and served as a relatively objective test. I came to aconclusion after considering various possibilities and fullysatisfying *myself* that this was the best.* * *1. :-) Even a literal translation would depend on somecontextualization in a language like Sanskrit. Unfortunately, mostSanskrit scholars are not into astrology. Most astrologers out thereare not really Sanskrit scholars.2. Depends on who you are talking about. Jaimini commentator IrangantiRangacharya quotes Vriddha karika and Nilakantha and does take 7karakas in some charts and 8 in some, based on two planets being inthe same degree. Thus, there WERE some people before who consideredRahu conditionally, based on two

planets being in the same degree. Iam not the first one. I deviated from them in other aspects, but theaspect of considering Rahu conditionally based on two planets being inthe same degree was there before. I think that particular verse ofParasara is quite clear.Why some paramparas ignored the verse is unclear to me. However,please realize that a parampara is only as good as its weakest link.People in a parampara can change knowledge or add things to it.3. I don't see it as redundant. If you see it that way and think thatit has some extra meaning, please propose it! :-)4. If you interpret it that way and go towards the theory of Sri KNRao, there is one problem. Parasara's later verse on the absence ofhigher portfolio and judgment using sthira karaka when two planets arein the same degree would be rendered meaningless. I had to balancethat directive with the specific directive regarding

atma karaka.As I said, I considered several possibilities and put them to testwith several charts.5. The word in question means "absence" and the context strengthensthat meaning. Moreover, Parasara says "the results of that portfolioshould be learnt from sthira karaka" and does not qualify that further!6. It was a logical deduction and one that can certainly bequestioned. I considered other possibilities, but this worked betterpractically. This is one thing where I am not 100% sure.7. Though you did not ask, I will add a question: "Did Parasaraspecifically teach about the second cycle in karaka dasa?" Answer isno. As far as the first cycle of karaka dasa is concerned, Parasara'steachings are unambiguous and crystal clear. The second and thirdcycles were a logical deduction of mine. But I am almost 100% surethat I got it correct.* * *As I said, this is based on my

best effort. Is it 100% correct? Idon't know. But I am pretty confident that this is far more correctthan anything else out there. Others may have other views. :-)Best regards,Narasimha------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homamDo Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpanaSpirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdomFree Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. netFree Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.orgSri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - sohamsa@ .com, "vedicastrostudent"<vedicastrostudent@ ...> wrote:>> Dear Narasimhaji,> Well written article, but it is hard to prematurely jump to the > conclusion that yours is an unambiguous intepretation in totality. > There are points that need to be addressed, and perhaps this is why > parampara interpretations have reigned so far. Here are the points > that I see:> > 1) First, is your literal translation agreed upon by all scholars?> > 2) Then, the translation "Now I am speaking of.... Thus, only seven >

significators [in some] and eight in some are considered" is pretty > unambiguous, i.e. that Rahu should be considered when 2 planets are > at equal degrees. There seems to be no room for any doubt here at > all - which brings up the question for an uninformed observer like > myself - did the parampara interpreters earlier disregard these > statements completely?> > 3) Next, try as I might, the statement: "One with higher degrees > becomes higher karaka, one with less degrees becomes lower karaka, > and one in the middle becomes lower karaka" seems completely > redundant, wouldnt you say? I mean if we accept your interpretation > (not translation, but interpretation) , then the above statement > seems completely redundant, because it is saying exactly the same > thing as the immediately following one, i.e. "By arranging in the > decreasing and decreasing

order of degrees, chara karakas are to be > found". Note that you write "decreasing and decreasing" - do you > mean increasing and decreasing? Why would Parasara throw in a > completely redundant and useless statement i.e. the first one? It > would seem logical to assume that the statement needed to convey > some EXTRA meaning, but it doesnt according to your interpretation - > you seem to give no weight to him distributing karakas in 3 > categories, lower, middle and higher? In fact, by your > interpretation, the distributing into 3 categories seems totally > illogical and unnecessary, then.. I mean I can as easily > artificially create 5 categories by saying "One with extremely high > degrees becomes extremely higher karaka, one with high degrees > become higher karaka, one with middle degrees becomes middle karaka, > one with lower degrees becomes lower karaka,

and one with extremely > low degrees become extremely lower karaka". As you can see, my > creation is simply meaningless verbiage - there is no meaningful use > of the 5 categories, exactly as there appears to be no meaningful > use of the 3 categories Parasara has created, according to your > interpretation. So net result - in your interpretation, this triple > categorization of Parasara seems to be a useless additional > statement, which consequently brings a certain amount of doubt to > your interpretation.> > 4) Next and very important, the use of "degrees". Your > interpretation is hinged tightly on the word "self" in "Learned men > should not take SELF from only degrees [and use upto seconds]". It > is quite possible he means this in general as well i.e. to always > use seconds when deciding the charakaraka. If so, the entire > interpretation

changes. Now, if you re-read the entire thing keeping > in mind that by degrees, Parasara GENERALLY actually means > degrees+minutes+ seconds (DMS) and not degrees only (DO). Because > then Rahu would come in when two planets have the same DMS only (a > very rare occurrence)! ! So this would lend a lot of credibility to > KN Rao's thesis, that we should use 7 karakas. All I'm saying is: > it is hard to accept your interpretation as totally unambiguous. > > 5) You have clearly interpreted one line as "If two planets are > equal in degrees in one's birth chart, O excellent brahmin, the > absence of higher significator only is to be learnt". Again, the > devil is in the details. Is it unambiguously "absence" or might it > be "disappearance" ? The difference being: Disappearance, as you know > implies something was present and THEN disappeared, whereas absence

> means "never present". Does the Sanskrit word actually imply > absence, and NOT disappearance? Because the entire CK replacement > theory hinges on that minor detail.> > 6) I am missing the part where he says when two grahas have a > conflict, who takes the lower karakatwa? Ok, the higher karakatwa > gets absent, but why does the highest DMS planet take the lower > karakatwa? I assume this is a logical deduction, motivated solely by > the need to be able to complete the karaka assignment?> > Sorry for the pointed questioning, but in general I would love to > see some deeper discussion before simply throwing everything out of > the back door.. Would love to see what other Gurus, especially > Sanjayji, have to say..> > Regards,> > Sundeep

October 25, 2008

Hare Rama Krsna ||Dear Anna,Regarding the following:If you get construction worker and Ju AmK you would be suspicious, wouldn't you?There are some huge buildings that they construct where there are hundreds of construction workers involved. Do you think it is possible for not one of them to have Jupiter as AmK? Even statistically this is unlikely.Amatyakaraka does not necessarily show the environment we work in. For this you must see D10.Respectfully,Michal108ar <bona_mentesohamsa Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 11:33:27 AMRe: Re: Parasara on Chara Karakas: An Independent Interpretation

Dear Narasimha and Sundeep,

Thank you for spelling out these clarifications- I settled down for less, though - trusting that if any portfolio results are to be judged based on shtira karaka- and that seems to be clear instruction/ Parashara- than Nararisimha' s interpretation on that higher-lower lever p., i.e. practical implementation of Parashara's 'instruction' , DOES FILL that 'void'.

As I've written to some listers who asked me for the reasons why I accept this, although Narasimha didn't mention in the article what part was his interpretation, it is clear that just /clear/ direction is coming from Parashara. I've considered this from many angles, Narasimha's doesn't

violate this /precious/ direction in any way. It may not be the best interpretation, thanks Narasimha for mentioning that, but as 'working hypothesis' is seems still closer to the 'source' than others I've experimented with so far. CKDasa seems to work nicely, in dozen of charts I tested it on so far.

In my own chart, this interpretation resolves one major issue that's been bothering me for long time- Saturn and Me are at the same degree, Sa more advanced in minutes, becomes AmK- with all overstretching, Ju, Me, Ve aspects, 'additional' influences etc...Sa as my AmK was unacceptable and had nothing to do with my real-life profession, so I set it aside for a long time, as some 'idiosyncrasy' - Neither was Me as BK! Now I have ME as STIRA k. holding higher portfolio of AmK, and SA as BK. That fits- totally.

If you get construction worker and Ju AmK you would be suspicious, wouldn't you?- so was I. If Narasimha or whoever makes this interpretation more polished,

I'd go for it. But I feel this one is fundamentally correct. Intuitively as well.

2)-What I have set aside here is CLEAR 'middle' karaka

interpretation, lack of it. /Is that addressing well known decreasing ck order, or smth else.../

3/-I wasn't aware of 'second cycle' issue before, must admit. I assumed that would be just reasonable assumption?

4/ Forgive me if I complicate this with Rahu- i somehow feel that 7 or 8 ck's must have some deeper meaning in defining individual differences- not god or bad, as Narasimha said in response to my 'confusing' q. before. But,

Is there something different btw 2 indivuduals, one having 7 cks, another having Rahu experience introduced in such a MAJOR way /as Chara karaka/. I'd say must be.

I am not quite sure I've explained this Q clearly, hope you'll understand.

Looking forward to hearing more on this,

Yours,

Anna

--- On Fri, 1 0/24/08, Narasimha Rao <pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net> wrote:

Narasimha Rao <pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net> Re: Parasara on Chara Karakas: An Independent Interpretationsohamsa@ .comFriday, October 24, 2008, 3:57 PM

Namaste Sundeep,Excellent questions! I am pleased.The interpretation I shared is based on mulling over possibleinterpretations and evaluating them practically. Luckily, karaka dasawas there and served as a relatively objective test. I came to aconclusion after considering various possibilities and fullysatisfying *myself* that this was the best.* * *1. :-) Even a literal translation would depend on somecontextualization in a language like Sanskrit. Unfortunately, mostSanskrit scholars are not into astrology. Most astrologers out thereare not really Sanskrit scholars.2. Depends on who you are talking about. Jaimini commentator IrangantiRangacharya quotes Vriddha karika and Nilakantha and does take 7karakas in some charts and 8 in some, based on two planets being inthe same degree. Thus, there WERE some people before who consideredRahu conditionally, based on two

planets being in the same degree. Iam not the first one. I deviated from them in other aspects, but theaspect of considering Rahu conditionally based on two planets being inthe same degree was there before. I think that particular verse ofParasara is quite clear.Why some paramparas ignored the verse is unclear to me. However,please realize that a parampara is only as good as its weakest link.People in a parampara can change knowledge or add things to it.3. I don't see it as redundant. If you see it that way and think thatit has some extra meaning, please propose it! :-)4. If you interpret it that way and go towards the theory of Sri KNRao, there is one problem. Parasara's later verse on the absence ofhigher portfolio and judgment using sthira karaka when two planets arein the same degree would be rendered meaningless. I had to balancethat directive with the specific directive regarding

atma karaka.As I said, I considered several possibilities and put them to testwith several charts.5. The word in question means "absence" and the context strengthensthat meaning. Moreover, Parasara says "the results of that portfolioshould be learnt from sthira karaka" and does not qualify that further!6. It was a logical deduction and one that can certainly bequestioned. I considered other possibilities, but this worked betterpractically. This is one thing where I am not 100% sure.7. Though you did not ask, I will add a question: "Did Parasaraspecifically teach about the second cycle in karaka dasa?" Answer isno. As far as the first cycle of karaka dasa is concerned, Parasara'steachings are unambiguous and crystal clear. The second and thirdcycles were a logical deduction of mine. But I am almost 100% surethat I got it correct.* * *As I said, this is based on my

best effort. Is it 100% correct? Idon't know. But I am pretty confident that this is far more correctthan anything else out there. Others may have other views. :-)Best regards,Narasimha------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homamDo Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpanaSpirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdomFree Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. netFree Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.orgSri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - sohamsa@ .com, "vedicastrostudent"<vedicastrostudent@ ...> wrote:>> Dear Narasimhaji,> Well written article, but it is hard to prematurely jump to the > conclusion that yours is an unambiguous intepretation in totality. > There are points that need to be addressed, and perhaps this is why > parampara interpretations have reigned so far. Here are the points > that I see:> > 1) First, is your literal translation agreed upon by all scholars?> > 2)

Then, the translation "Now I am speaking of.... Thus, only seven >

significators [in some] and eight in some are considered" is pretty > unambiguous, i.e. that Rahu should be considered when 2 planets are > at equal degrees. There seems to be no room for any doubt here at > all - which brings up the question for an uninformed observer like > myself - did the parampara interpreters earlier disregard these > statements completely?> > 3) Next, try as I might, the statement: "One with higher degrees > becomes higher karaka, one with less degrees becomes lower karaka, > and one in the middle becomes lower karaka" seems completely > redundant, wouldnt you say? I mean if we accept your interpretation > (not translation, but interpretation) , then the above statement > seems completely redundant, because it is saying exactly the same > thing as the immediately following one, i.e. "By arranging in the > decreasing and decreasing

order of degrees, chara karakas are to be > found". Note that you write "decreasing and decreasing" - do you > mean increasing and decreasing? Why would Parasara throw in a > completely redundant and useless statement i.e. the first one? It > would seem logical to assume that the statement needed to convey > some EXTRA meaning, but it doesnt according to your interpretation - > you seem to give no weight to him distributing karakas in 3 > categories, lower, middle and higher? In fact, by your > interpretation, the distributing into 3 categories seems totally > illogical and unnecessary, then.. I mean I can as easily > artificially create 5 categories by saying "One with extremely high > degrees becomes extremely higher karaka, one with high degrees > become higher karaka, one with middle degrees becomes middle karaka, > one with lower degrees becomes lower karaka,

and one with extremely > low degrees become extremely lower karaka". As you can see, my > creation is simply meaningless verbiage - there is no meaningful use > of the 5 categories, exactly as there appears to be no meaningful > use of the 3 categories Parasara has created, according to your > interpretation. So net result - in your interpretation, this triple > categorization of Parasara seems to be a useless additional > statement, which consequently brings a certain amount of doubt to > your interpretation.> > 4) Next and very important, the use of "degrees". Your > interpretation is hinged tightly on the word "self" in "Learned men > should not take SELF from only degrees [and use upto seconds]". It > is quite possible he means this in general as well i.e. to always > use seconds when deciding the charakaraka. If so, the entire > interpretation

changes. Now, if you re-read the entire thing keeping > in mind that by degrees, Parasara GENERALLY actually means > degrees+minutes+ seconds (DMS) and not degrees only (DO). Because > then Rahu would come in when two planets have the same DMS only (a > very rare occurrence)! ! So this would lend a lot of credibility to > KN Rao's thesis, that we should use 7 karakas. All I'm saying is: > it is hard to accept your interpretation as totally unambiguous. > > 5) You have clearly interpreted one line as "If two planets are > equal in degrees in one's birth chart, O excellent brahmin, the > absence of higher significator only is to be learnt". Again, the > devil is in the details. Is it unambiguously "absence" or might it > be "disappearance" ? The difference being: Disappearance, as you know > implies something was present and THEN disappeared, whereas absence

> means "never present". Does the Sanskrit word actually imply > absence, and NOT disappearance? Because the entire CK replacement > theory hinges on that minor detail.> > 6) I am missing the part where he says when two grahas have a > conflict, who takes the lower karakatwa? Ok, the higher karakatwa > gets absent, but why does the highest DMS planet take the lower > karakatwa? I assume this is a logical deduction, motivated solely by > the need to be able to complete the karaka assignment?> > Sorry for the pointed questioning, but in general I would love to > see some deeper discussion before simply throwing everything out of > the back door.. Would love to see what other Gurus, especially > Sanjayji, have to say..> > Regards,> > Sundeep

October 25, 2008

Namaste Narasimha Ji

It was interesting to read your article.It made me read the verses

numerous times and read the views of numerous authors. I have books

from Prof Shastri, Irangati Rangacharya, K.N.Rao, R.Santhanam, Sanjay

Rath, Chandrashekar Sharma etc. I also got a chance to listen to

K.N.Raoji on this subject. I am yet to reach a conclusion as the

topic is not that simple and needs deep study.

I will raise the concerns after proper study.

However i would request you to think on why the scholars of yester

years did think of ''two schools''.

Is there any word which points towards that. In my view there is one

word which has a special meaning, and can/may convey ''different

views''. That word is Kechith.

As per the parampara of Varahamihira Kechid is used for expressing a

different view or school of thought. This is clearly explained by

Dashadhyayi karaka in the Varahahora translation, while talking about

kemadruma. He stresses on the word ''Kechid''.

Thus ''Saptaiva Karakanevam KECHIDashtau Prachakshathe'', when read

along with with previous line ''amshai samau .....'' can very well

mean - as per the views of some/school of thought, rahu comes into

picture only during tie and as per another school 8 karakas can be

used along with 7(or 7 & 8 can be used even if there is no tie).

I am not sure whether this grammatical usage is equally applicable

for Prashara literature or not. However it points to a very valid

reason for many scholars to translate ''2 school of thoughts''.

''Anye Vadanti'' relating matri/suta is also similar. Meanings of

Antyakaraka line and tadagrakarakasyaivam also needs special

attention.

Thank you very much for your detailed study.You may kindly consider

my concerns as well.

Pradeep

sohamsa , Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr wrote:

>

> Namaste friends,

>

> Here is the promised article on chara karakas. I have no

pretensions that I got it correct. But this is based on an honest

attempt to purge all preconceived notions from the mind and approach

Parasara's verses with a fresh and unbiased mind.

>

> In my view, neither the 7 chara karaka school nor the 8 chara

karaka school got Parasara correct. Parasara taught that 7 chara

karakas should be used in some charts and 8 chara karakas in some

charts and clearly described when to use what.

>

> I am trying to share whatever I was able to understand by reading

Parasara's exposition on chara karakas with an open mind and then

experimenting. If you think my interpretation has some worth in it,

please use it, experiment, benefit and spread the knowledge. If not,

just leave it.

>

> I have uploaded a detailed article on chara karakas on my website.

It describes the calculation with 16 examples, covering various

cases. Apart from defining chara karaka calculation, this article

also defines and uses a dasa called " Karaka dasa " that was taught by

Parasara for the purpose of timing events using chara karakas. Please

download the following PDF file if interested:

>

> http://VedicAstrologer.org/articles/c_karaka.pdf

>

> If you find the article useful, please feel free to forward this

link to those who may be interested.

>

> Krishnaarpanamastu,

> Narasimha

>

> Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam

> Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana

> Spirituality:

> Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

> Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

>

October 25, 2008

You didn't get my point,

dear Michael

- it's not Ju Amk I spoke about specifically, it was just a metaphor for 'misfit',

Let me use this opportunity to say that I honestly believe

that exchange of views, knowledge, opinions /in respectful environment/ can only advance Jyotish cause-

can be and should be free of ego-political- brand- loyalty-hurt feelings-dominance-submissiveness-gains-uses- abuses......list goes on and on....-issues-

only than it is optimally beneficial to all. /as much as you, individually, can grasp, that is/

Best wishes,

Anna--- On Fri, 10/24/08, Michal Dziwulski <nearmichal wrote:

Michal Dziwulski <nearmichalRe: Re: Parasara on Chara Karakas: An Independent Interpretationsohamsa Date: Friday, October 24, 2008, 7:07 PM

Hare Rama Krsna ||Dear Anna,Regarding the following:If you get construction worker and Ju AmK you would be suspicious, wouldn't you?There are some huge buildings that they construct where there are hundreds of construction workers involved. Do you think it is possible for not one of them to have Jupiter as AmK? Even statistically this is unlikely.Amatyakaraka does not necessarily show the environment we work in. For this you must see D10.Respectfully,Michal

108ar <bona_mente >sohamsa@ .comSaturday, October 25, 2008 11:33:27 AMRe: Re: Parasara on Chara Karakas: An Independent Interpretation