Guest guest Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 Dear all, Seemingly stupid question: " What is Lagna " ? I dont really want to know what the Lagna *influences*, but what it inherently *is*. It's definitely not the physical body because then Lagna would have no meaning in higher charts. What quantity or entity does it then signify? Since vargottama Lagna indicates long life, Lagna could mean inherent life " force " i.e. the inner " will " to live. Since Lagna is what determines Bhavas or houses (because without it, there are just grahas in various rashis, there is no concept of numbered houses), there is definitely something which implies individuality in there. So it could be the inherent " fire of individuality " within? But then, how is different from the Atma? This line of thinking originated because I started trying to define in my mind " What is a malefic? " . So I thought, a malefic has to be a malefic *in relation to something*, right? So, a *functional* malefic is a malefic to the Lagna. But a functional malefic is a maraka only if it is in the 2nd or 7th not otherwise. Of course, I am still left with the original question too - What is a natural malefic? What is it malefic *to*? There may be malefics with saatwik guna, and there are benefics with rajasik guna, so its not their inherent guna either. Any and all inputs are appreciated. Hope these questions are not too basic for such a forum - please ignore if they are.. If there is something very basic I'm missing, please point me to it and I'll read it up.. Thanks much, Sundeep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 II hraum namah adityaya II Dear Sundeep , Namaskar 1. Lagna is a point where the sign is rising on the horizon. Parasara defines it as Rasi not as Bhava. 2. Malefic / benefic is naisargik definition and related to mind, therefore good and bad emotions, it relates to mind. 3. Will to live comes from 3H from AK, while Lagna shows inteligence - medium which hears the mind and make the choices based on whole spectrum called Linga Sarira. 4. Lagna is individual inteligence, personality and reactive inteligence. While Atma is described by Atmakaraka. Surya is Sarvatma. 5. Functional malefic is funny term. Maraka has nothing to do with naisargik and tatkalik division. Dont divide grahas for temporal benefic/malefic as the chart can change whole thing. Be holistic. 6. Malefic refers to emotions they create. Its called Krura grahas, similar term. Emotion is good or bad apriori, but the usage, motive and level is based on lordship, CK and Varga. Still its only generalization. 7. Parasara talks also about Uttama, Madhyama graha's where Ketu is in the upper group, Guna is also completely other classification and refers to mobility and direction - try Gita 14,17,18 chapters. This is of course only one way to see these things.. Regards, Rafal Gendarz, www.rohinaa.com vedicastrostudent napisał(a): Dear all, Seemingly stupid question: "What is Lagna"? I dont really want to know what the Lagna *influences*, but what it inherently *is*. It's definitely not the physical body because then Lagna would have no meaning in higher charts. What quantity or entity does it then signify? Since vargottama Lagna indicates long life, Lagna could mean inherent life "force" i.e. the inner "will" to live. Since Lagna is what determines Bhavas or houses (because without it, there are just grahas in various rashis, there is no concept of numbered houses), there is definitely something which implies individuality in there. So it could be the inherent "fire of individuality" within? But then, how is different from the Atma? This line of thinking originated because I started trying to define in my mind "What is a malefic?". So I thought, a malefic has to be a malefic *in relation to something*, right? So, a *functional* malefic is a malefic to the Lagna. But a functional malefic is a maraka only if it is in the 2nd or 7th not otherwise. Of course, I am still left with the original question too - What is a natural malefic? What is it malefic *to*? There may be malefics with saatwik guna, and there are benefics with rajasik guna, so its not their inherent guna either. Any and all inputs are appreciated. Hope these questions are not too basic for such a forum - please ignore if they are.. If there is something very basic I'm missing, please point me to it and I'll read it up.. Thanks much, Sundeep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 Hare Ram Krishna Dear Sundeep, Physical existence/body is signified by Moon ( Mother) which is the real significator of longevity and not Lagna. Lagna signifies the intelligence or Bu(Dhi) of this physical existence. It confers the body/mind with the discriminatory power of decision/ good-bad, thus it guides us to our karmas. Depending upon the influence on it, it can choose the direction of the body/mind and ideally the perfect lagna is guided by our ishta devta/God. Bad(Malefic) and Good(Benefic) influence by respective planets over the Lagna, can alter this intelligence thus modifying its basic nature. Depending upon the rising sign of tha lagna one can then decide which will be its friend(benefic) or enemy (malefic). This is how I have understood it. Regards Sharat - vedicastrostudent sohamsa Monday, March 19, 2007 8:21 PM What is Lagna? Dear all,Seemingly stupid question: "What is Lagna"? I dont really want to know what the Lagna *influences*, but what it inherently *is*. It's definitely not the physical body because then Lagna would have no meaning in higher charts. What quantity or entity does it then signify? Since vargottama Lagna indicates long life, Lagna could mean inherent life "force" i.e. the inner "will" to live. Since Lagna is what determines Bhavas or houses (because without it, there are just grahas in various rashis, there is no concept of numbered houses), there is definitely something which implies individuality in there. So it could be the inherent "fire of individuality" within? But then, how is different from the Atma? This line of thinking originated because I started trying to define in my mind "What is a malefic?". So I thought, a malefic has to be a malefic *in relation to something*, right? So, a *functional* malefic is a malefic to the Lagna. But a functional malefic is a maraka only if it is in the 2nd or 7th not otherwise. Of course, I am still left with the original question too - What is a natural malefic? What is it malefic *to*? There may be malefics with saatwik guna, and there are benefics with rajasik guna, so its not their inherent guna either.Any and all inputs are appreciated. Hope these questions are not too basic for such a forum - please ignore if they are.. If there is something very basic I'm missing, please point me to it and I'll read it up..Thanks much,Sundeep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 II hraum namah adityaya II Dear Sharat , Namaskar 1. Physical existence is seen by D1, and especially D1 to D12. 2. Body is signified by Moon per Deva Keralam as Sarira, but Lagna is also body (deha) per Parasara and Mangal in Lagna gives many scars per many classics. Infact Jaimini uses Moon to see parts of the body. 3.Yes, perfect Lagna is pure Surya, so me must aspire to transfer from Moon (with Me and Ve) to Surya (with Ju as guiding element). This is called Karma Yoga when Me transforms into Su and Ve into Mo. 4. Influence of planet on Jupiter shows system of values, while graha drsti on Lagna shows approach. 5. Friend or enemy should be seen on level of atma, mana and thanu. And when You are talking about Lagna (naisargik) you should see also from Lagnesh (tatkalik). This is also basis for Lagna-Compatibility which is important part. All this is on atri-class. Regards, Rafal Gendarz, www.rohinaa.com Sharat napisał(a): Hare Ram Krishna Dear Sundeep, Physical existence/body is signified by Moon ( Mother) which is the real significator of longevity and not Lagna. Lagna signifies the intelligence or Bu(Dhi) of this physical existence. It confers the body/mind with the discriminatory power of decision/ good-bad, thus it guides us to our karmas. Depending upon the influence on it, it can choose the direction of the body/mind and ideally the perfect lagna is guided by our ishta devta/God. Bad(Malefic) and Good(Benefic) influence by respective planets over the Lagna, can alter this intelligence thus modifying its basic nature. Depending upon the rising sign of tha lagna one can then decide which will be its friend(benefic) or enemy (malefic). This is how I have understood it. Regards Sharat ----- Original Message ----- vedicastrostudent To: sohamsa Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 8:21 PM Subject: What is Lagna? Dear all, Seemingly stupid question: "What is Lagna"? I dont really want to know what the Lagna *influences*, but what it inherently *is*. It's definitely not the physical body because then Lagna would have no meaning in higher charts. What quantity or entity does it then signify? Since vargottama Lagna indicates long life, Lagna could mean inherent life "force" i.e. the inner "will" to live. Since Lagna is what determines Bhavas or houses (because without it, there are just grahas in various rashis, there is no concept of numbered houses), there is definitely something which implies individuality in there. So it could be the inherent "fire of individuality" within? But then, how is different from the Atma? This line of thinking originated because I started trying to define in my mind "What is a malefic?". So I thought, a malefic has to be a malefic *in relation to something*, right? So, a *functional* malefic is a malefic to the Lagna. But a functional malefic is a maraka only if it is in the 2nd or 7th not otherwise. Of course, I am still left with the original question too - What is a natural malefic? What is it malefic *to*? There may be malefics with saatwik guna, and there are benefics with rajasik guna, so its not their inherent guna either. Any and all inputs are appreciated. Hope these questions are not too basic for such a forum - please ignore if they are.. If there is something very basic I'm missing, please point me to it and I'll read it up.. Thanks much, Sundeep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 Hare Ram Krishna Dear Rafal, Namaskar, Thanks for your clear explanations. Regards Sharat - Rafal Gendarz sohamsa Monday, March 19, 2007 10:02 PM Re: What is Lagna? II hraum namah adityaya II Dear Sharat , Namaskar 1. Physical existence is seen by D1, and especially D1 to D12.2. Body is signified by Moon per Deva Keralam as Sarira, but Lagna is also body (deha) per Parasara and Mangal in Lagna gives many scars per many classics. Infact Jaimini uses Moon to see parts of the body.3.Yes, perfect Lagna is pure Surya, so me must aspire to transfer from Moon (with Me and Ve) to Surya (with Ju as guiding element). This is called Karma Yoga when Me transforms into Su and Ve into Mo.4. Influence of planet on Jupiter shows system of values, while graha drsti on Lagna shows approach.5. Friend or enemy should be seen on level of atma, mana and thanu. And when You are talking about Lagna (naisargik) you should see also from Lagnesh (tatkalik). This is also basis for Lagna-Compatibility which is important part. All this is on atri-class. Regards, Rafal Gendarz, www.rohinaa.comSharat napisał(a): Hare Ram Krishna Dear Sundeep, Physical existence/body is signified by Moon ( Mother) which is the real significator of longevity and not Lagna. Lagna signifies the intelligence or Bu(Dhi) of this physical existence. It confers the body/mind with the discriminatory power of decision/ good-bad, thus it guides us to our karmas. Depending upon the influence on it, it can choose the direction of the body/mind and ideally the perfect lagna is guided by our ishta devta/God. Bad(Malefic) and Good(Benefic) influence by respective planets over the Lagna, can alter this intelligence thus modifying its basic nature. Depending upon the rising sign of tha lagna one can then decide which will be its friend(benefic) or enemy (malefic). This is how I have understood it. Regards Sharat - vedicastrostudent sohamsa Monday, March 19, 2007 8:21 PM What is Lagna? Dear all,Seemingly stupid question: "What is Lagna"? I dont really want to know what the Lagna *influences*, but what it inherently *is*. It's definitely not the physical body because then Lagna would have no meaning in higher charts. What quantity or entity does it then signify? Since vargottama Lagna indicates long life, Lagna could mean inherent life "force" i.e. the inner "will" to live. Since Lagna is what determines Bhavas or houses (because without it, there are just grahas in various rashis, there is no concept of numbered houses), there is definitely something which implies individuality in there. So it could be the inherent "fire of individuality" within? But then, how is different from the Atma? This line of thinking originated because I started trying to define in my mind "What is a malefic?". So I thought, a malefic has to be a malefic *in relation to something*, right? So, a *functional* malefic is a malefic to the Lagna. But a functional malefic is a maraka only if it is in the 2nd or 7th not otherwise. Of course, I am still left with the original question too - What is a natural malefic? What is it malefic *to*? There may be malefics with saatwik guna, and there are benefics with rajasik guna, so its not their inherent guna either.Any and all inputs are appreciated. Hope these questions are not too basic for such a forum - please ignore if they are.. If there is something very basic I'm missing, please point me to it and I'll read it up..Thanks much,Sundeep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 Sharat, First, you make a powerful statement " [Lagna] guides us to our karmas " . This is one of the things I started thinking towards after I read Rafalji's reply. The way it occurred to me was: When there is no Lagna (i.e. before the moment of birth), there are just planets in signs. The moment of birth, i.e. the *fixing* of the Lagna at the moment of birth, instantly determines the karma the soul will experience (by fixing all the charts). So it could well be that the Lagna is that which guides us to our karmas. But there are problems still: Why does vargottama lagna confer long life? There has to be a " directionality " associated with the Lagna, not just " flat " experiencing, if you get what I mean. Like the difference between active searching, versus being in a " state of search " . The former has motive power and discrimination, the latter has no motive power - only discrimination. It is (or must be, I'm not sure)that motive power that is brought forth by the vargottama- ness of the Lagna. Sundeep sohamsa , " Sharat " <gidoc wrote: > > Hare Ram Krishna > > Dear Sundeep, > > Physical existence/body is signified by Moon ( Mother) which is the real significator of longevity and not Lagna. > Lagna signifies the intelligence or Bu(Dhi) of this physical existence. It confers the body/mind with the discriminatory power of decision/ good-bad, thus it guides us to our karmas. Depending upon the influence on it, it can choose the direction of the body/mind and ideally the perfect lagna is guided by our ishta devta/God. > Bad(Malefic) and Good(Benefic) influence by respective planets over the Lagna, can alter this intelligence thus modifying its basic nature. Depending upon the rising sign of tha lagna one can then decide which will be its friend(benefic) or enemy (malefic). > This is how I have understood it. > > Regards > Sharat > > > > - > vedicastrostudent > sohamsa > Monday, March 19, 2007 8:21 PM > What is Lagna? > > > Dear all, > Seemingly stupid question: " What is Lagna " ? I dont really want to > know what the Lagna *influences*, but what it inherently *is*. It's > definitely not the physical body because then Lagna would have no > meaning in higher charts. What quantity or entity does it then > signify? Since vargottama Lagna indicates long life, Lagna could > mean inherent life " force " i.e. the inner " will " to live. Since > Lagna is what determines Bhavas or houses (because without it, there > are just grahas in various rashis, there is no concept of numbered > houses), there is definitely something which implies individuality > in there. So it could be the inherent " fire of individuality " > within? But then, how is different from the Atma? > > This line of thinking originated because I started trying to define > in my mind " What is a malefic? " . So I thought, a malefic has to be a > malefic *in relation to something*, right? So, a *functional* > malefic is a malefic to the Lagna. But a functional malefic is a > maraka only if it is in the 2nd or 7th not otherwise. > > Of course, I am still left with the original question too - What is > a natural malefic? What is it malefic *to*? There may be malefics > with saatwik guna, and there are benefics with rajasik guna, so its > not their inherent guna either. > > Any and all inputs are appreciated. Hope these questions are not too > basic for such a forum - please ignore if they are.. If there is > something very basic I'm missing, please point me to it and I'll > read it up.. > > Thanks much, > > Sundeep > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 Hare Ram Krishna Dear Sundeep, So we have the Lagna, fixed at birth, by destiny/God; and in its pure form it is meant to guide us to our karmic destiny. Then we see the planets posited in/around it and we see the whole combo , so to say. Things now change with these influences, Lagna may get 'pressurised' to move in a certain way depending upon the influences on it, for planetary movements are dynamic in the cosmos and they will effect our natal ' combo' as well. I see Vargottam as Lagna maintaining its pure form..hence it ' lives longer'; metaphorically of course ! How it ultimately benefits the physical existence may not be in its own control as external influences continue to modify it. Hence what use is a 'pure' intelligence, if it doesnt have support from the inbuilt bhavas around it. Then there is ' applied intelligence' which is the Lord of the Lagna, if these two separate, which is usual, there is further discordance in our progress towards our karmas, as now we have to figure things from two perspectives, one through our physical intelligence( Brain) and second through our innate inner voice(Mind). Listen to your inner voice, thats your ' pure' lagna...but then we must meditate to make it heard to our ' physical intelligence'. Herein lies the dichotomy of our existence! Perhaps this is not what ' classics' have written. Best wishes Sharat - vedicastrostudent sohamsa Monday, March 19, 2007 10:43 PM Re: What is Lagna? Sharat,First, you make a powerful statement "[Lagna] guides us to our karmas". This is one of the things I started thinking towards after I read Rafalji's reply. The way it occurred to me was: When there is no Lagna (i.e. before the moment of birth), there are just planets in signs. The moment of birth, i.e. the *fixing* of the Lagna at the moment of birth, instantly determines the karma the soul will experience (by fixing all the charts). So it could well be that the Lagna is that which guides us to our karmas.But there are problems still: Why does vargottama lagna confer long life? There has to be a "directionality" associated with the Lagna, not just "flat" experiencing, if you get what I mean. Like the difference between active searching, versus being in a "state of search". The former has motive power and discrimination, the latter has no motive power - only discrimination. It is (or must be, I'm not sure)that motive power that is brought forth by the vargottama-ness of the Lagna.Sundeepsohamsa , "Sharat" <gidoc wrote:>> Hare Ram Krishna> > Dear Sundeep,> > Physical existence/body is signified by Moon ( Mother) which is the real significator of longevity and not Lagna.> Lagna signifies the intelligence or Bu(Dhi) of this physical existence. It confers the body/mind with the discriminatory power of decision/ good-bad, thus it guides us to our karmas. Depending upon the influence on it, it can choose the direction of the body/mind and ideally the perfect lagna is guided by our ishta devta/God.> Bad(Malefic) and Good(Benefic) influence by respective planets over the Lagna, can alter this intelligence thus modifying its basic nature. Depending upon the rising sign of tha lagna one can then decide which will be its friend(benefic) or enemy (malefic). > This is how I have understood it.> > Regards> Sharat> > > > - > vedicastrostudent > sohamsa > Monday, March 19, 2007 8:21 PM> What is Lagna?> > > Dear all,> Seemingly stupid question: "What is Lagna"? I dont really want to > know what the Lagna *influences*, but what it inherently *is*. It's > definitely not the physical body because then Lagna would have no > meaning in higher charts. What quantity or entity does it then > signify? Since vargottama Lagna indicates long life, Lagna could > mean inherent life "force" i.e. the inner "will" to live. Since > Lagna is what determines Bhavas or houses (because without it, there > are just grahas in various rashis, there is no concept of numbered > houses), there is definitely something which implies individuality > in there. So it could be the inherent "fire of individuality" > within? But then, how is different from the Atma? > > This line of thinking originated because I started trying to define > in my mind "What is a malefic?". So I thought, a malefic has to be a > malefic *in relation to something*, right? So, a *functional* > malefic is a malefic to the Lagna. But a functional malefic is a > maraka only if it is in the 2nd or 7th not otherwise. > > Of course, I am still left with the original question too - What is > a natural malefic? What is it malefic *to*? There may be malefics > with saatwik guna, and there are benefics with rajasik guna, so its > not their inherent guna either.> > Any and all inputs are appreciated. Hope these questions are not too > basic for such a forum - please ignore if they are.. If there is > something very basic I'm missing, please point me to it and I'll > read it up..> > Thanks much,> > Sundeep> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2007 Report Share Posted March 23, 2007 Learned members, that was some terrific discussion. Thanks. Can I please ask a rather simple question. What chakra does lagna correspond to? From many sites I gather aries is the head of kaalpurush and therefore lagna should be the crown chakra. But taking lagna to be the physical body, it should be the earth element which would be the root chakra. But if we take lagna to be intelligence only and not the body then crown might be a better fit. The reason for asking this is to find out which chakra meditation would help improve a very afflicted lagna ( in addition to other measures). Any insights will be welcome. Regards Shiva sohamsa , " Sharat " <gidoc wrote: > > Hare Ram Krishna > > Dear Sundeep, > > So we have the Lagna, fixed at birth, by destiny/God; and in its pure form it is meant to guide us to our karmic destiny. > Then we see the planets posited in/around it and we see the whole combo , so to say. Things now change with these influences, Lagna may get 'pressurised' to move in a certain way depending upon the influences on it, for planetary movements are dynamic in the cosmos and they will effect our natal ' combo' as well. > I see Vargottam as Lagna maintaining its pure form..hence it ' lives longer'; metaphorically of course ! How it ultimately benefits the physical existence may not be in its own control as external influences continue to modify it. Hence what use is a 'pure' intelligence, if it doesnt have support from the inbuilt bhavas around it. > Then there is ' applied intelligence' which is the Lord of the Lagna, if these two separate, which is usual, there is further discordance in our progress towards our karmas, as now we have to figure things from two perspectives, one through our physical intelligence( Brain) and second through our innate inner voice(Mind). > Listen to your inner voice, thats your ' pure' lagna...but then we must meditate to make it heard to our ' physical intelligence'. > Herein lies the dichotomy of our existence! > Perhaps this is not what ' classics' have written. > > Best wishes > Sharat > > - > vedicastrostudent > sohamsa > Monday, March 19, 2007 10:43 PM > Re: What is Lagna? > > > Sharat, > First, you make a powerful statement " [Lagna] guides us to our > karmas " . This is one of the things I started thinking towards after > I read Rafalji's reply. The way it occurred to me was: When there is > no Lagna (i.e. before the moment of birth), there are just planets > in signs. The moment of birth, i.e. the *fixing* of the Lagna at the > moment of birth, instantly determines the karma the soul will > experience (by fixing all the charts). So it could well be that the > Lagna is that which guides us to our karmas. > > But there are problems still: Why does vargottama lagna confer long > life? There has to be a " directionality " associated with the Lagna, > not just " flat " experiencing, if you get what I mean. Like the > difference between active searching, versus being in a " state of > search " . The former has motive power and discrimination, the latter > has no motive power - only discrimination. It is (or must be, I'm > not sure)that motive power that is brought forth by the vargottama- > ness of the Lagna. > > Sundeep > > sohamsa , " Sharat " <gidoc@> wrote: > > > > Hare Ram Krishna > > > > Dear Sundeep, > > > > Physical existence/body is signified by Moon ( Mother) which is > the real significator of longevity and not Lagna. > > Lagna signifies the intelligence or Bu(Dhi) of this physical > existence. It confers the body/mind with the discriminatory power of > decision/ good-bad, thus it guides us to our karmas. Depending upon > the influence on it, it can choose the direction of the body/mind > and ideally the perfect lagna is guided by our ishta devta/God. > > Bad(Malefic) and Good(Benefic) influence by respective planets > over the Lagna, can alter this intelligence thus modifying its basic > nature. Depending upon the rising sign of tha lagna one can then > decide which will be its friend(benefic) or enemy (malefic). > > This is how I have understood it. > > > > Regards > > Sharat > > > > > > > > - > > vedicastrostudent > > sohamsa > > Monday, March 19, 2007 8:21 PM > > What is Lagna? > > > > > > Dear all, > > Seemingly stupid question: " What is Lagna " ? I dont really want > to > > know what the Lagna *influences*, but what it inherently *is*. > It's > > definitely not the physical body because then Lagna would have > no > > meaning in higher charts. What quantity or entity does it then > > signify? Since vargottama Lagna indicates long life, Lagna could > > mean inherent life " force " i.e. the inner " will " to live. Since > > Lagna is what determines Bhavas or houses (because without it, > there > > are just grahas in various rashis, there is no concept of > numbered > > houses), there is definitely something which implies > individuality > > in there. So it could be the inherent " fire of individuality " > > within? But then, how is different from the Atma? > > > > This line of thinking originated because I started trying to > define > > in my mind " What is a malefic? " . So I thought, a malefic has to > be a > > malefic *in relation to something*, right? So, a *functional* > > malefic is a malefic to the Lagna. But a functional malefic is a > > maraka only if it is in the 2nd or 7th not otherwise. > > > > Of course, I am still left with the original question too - What > is > > a natural malefic? What is it malefic *to*? There may be > malefics > > with saatwik guna, and there are benefics with rajasik guna, so > its > > not their inherent guna either. > > > > Any and all inputs are appreciated. Hope these questions are not > too > > basic for such a forum - please ignore if they are.. If there is > > something very basic I'm missing, please point me to it and I'll > > read it up.. > > > > Thanks much, > > > > Sundeep > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.