What is Lagna? (followup questions - the matter is not so easily resolved)

[Guest guest]

Dear Rafalji,

I am sorry but I think that perhaps because I am a " nobody " you

arent paying enough attention to what I am saying. Let me try one

more time, by pointing out *exactly* where you are missing what I am

saying.

 

 

> 1. First house is house which sign is rising on the *horizon*.

Simple as

> that.

 

And? Please elucidate on your point. What is the point you are

trying to make? The point I was trying to make is that the moment of

birth fixes the Lagna, and consequently/concurrently the houses.

Lagna just does not happen by accident to be in the first house,

does it? When we say the second house determines sustenance, it is

sustenance of what? When we say seventh house determines

relationships, whose relationships? Ninth is dharma - whose dharma?

We are talking of some entity, right? Where is that entity centered?

 

> 2. Person in Satva guna enjoys auspicious objects of senses, the

> benefics in satwa guna shows the highest standart of enjoyment

with

> quality of sat, cit and ananda, while benefics in rajo guna has

always

> frustration on the end because this substance of hapiness is

lacking of

> knowledge about real nature of enjoyer (ie. atma). To enjoy tamo

guna

> substances with jnanendriyas person must be in tamoguna and this

cause

> diseases (Srimad Bhagavatam 11 canto).If You dont know what is

good

> emotion then I cant help You further.

 

dear rafalji, I urge you to look carefully at what you yourself have

written. You have not pointed out ANY other basis for good and bad

other than guna. So the original quandary remains: If malefic and

benefic are different from guna, exactly how - why dont we say 6th

house lord is " functionally tamasik/rajasik " ? I was stuck at exactly

the same point and I was unable to proceed. My original question

was - what is malefic and what is benefic? Malefic to whom and

benefic to whom? I also tried to use guna to find out an absolute

meaning to malefic and benefic. But some malefics have satwa guna,

and some benefics have rajo guna. So the malefic/benefic distinction

DOES NOT map cleanly onto the satwa/rajo/tamas guna distinction. You

have so far only said: malefic/benefic leads to " bad " / " good "

EMOTIONS in the MIND. Leaving " bad " and " good " to our imagination. I

agree with you everyone knows what is good and bad FOR THEM. What is

absolute good/absolute bad. Leading to God/away from God? So is that

what the malefic/benefic distinction is? To complicate matters

further, I see at Sarbaniji's site that the 9th house is supposed to

be a tamasik house and at the same time the 9th lord is the biggest

functional benefic, right?

 

 

> 3. I propose to You articcle written by Visti Ji " Jnana Yoga " on

his

> site. Lagna is reactive inteligence, something like default

attitude,

> Paka Lagna shows applied or active inteligence where You make a

choice,

> where You interact with people and surrounding. Mercury shows

ability to

> learn and ask question while Jupiter shows learnin skills and

memory

> (everyone remember discussion between Sanjay Ji and Narasimha Ji

about

> this). Fifth bhava shows Viveka per Sarwartha Cintamani and other

> classics, third bhava shows Guruupadesa and Gurubhay, it also

shows our

> arsenal - so like what we have in hands - this will show our

values

> (aspect on ninth) but that has nothing to do with topic in

straight way.

> I agree with You WORDS ARE VERY IMPORTANT IN JYOTISH therefore its

good

> to memorize phrases used by person who has contemplated the topic.

> Affliction to Lagna can makes one seeing flying pigs, while

affliction

> to fifth makes that one things he is Hitler or very important

> personality. So second is connected to discrimination.

 

I will, thank you.

 

> 4. Bandhana on Lagna decrease lifespan so Vargotam make it

stronger.

> Vargotam of element means that this will be related to all

signification

> of first bhava like health, fame etc. Longevity is counted from

first,

> eigth (or fifth) and tenth - therefore Vargotama Lagna is like

strong or

> blessed Lagna.

 

I am sorry, but this is just plain faulty logic. You are using a

conclusion of your theory to justify the assumptions that led to the

conclusion in the first place! Bandhan on Lagna decreases lifespan

because Lagna in *some way affects lifespan*, no? The original

question was *why* exactly does it deal with lifespan? ASSUMING THAT

IT DOES, of course, bandhan will limit it. But that does not justify

that it does.

 

 

Thanks

 

Sundeep

 

 

>

>

>

> -

-----

> Regards,

> *Rafal Gendarz,*

> www.rohinaa.com <http://www.rohinaa.com>

>

>

>

> vedicastrostudent napisa?(a):

> >

> > Dear Rafalji,

> >

> > Thank you for your reply. In general, while I have definitely got

> > some pointers, I am still quite unclear and I hope you can

elaborate

> > a bit.

> >

> > Specifically:

> > 1) When you say that Parasara defines Lagna with respect to

sign, do

> > you mean that he has a separate definition somewhere else that

> > defines what is the " first " house in the chart? " First " house

> > is " first " with respect to what? Wherever he explicitly or

> > implicitly implies that the Lagna point is always in the " First "

> > house, he *must* essentially be implying Lagna defines the house

> > system. Unless he explicitly or implicitly indicates otherwise.

Does

> > he? Does the Lagna just happen to be in the first house, or does

it

> > define the first house as the one that contains it?

> >

> > 2) When you say Malefic and Benefic relates to the emotions in

> > creates in the mind, I find that interesting, because you have

given

> > the mind as a clue. But then, in a way pass the problem onward,

> > when you say " emotion is good or bad, *a priori* " . Meaning what?

> > It's like saying malefic and benefic, a priori. Without proof?

> > That's what the question was to begin with.

> >

> > 3) When you say Lagna is individual intelligence, personality and

> > reactive intelligence, frankly speaking I am unsatisfied. I feel

that

> > somewhere the link has been lost between the original statements

in

> > Sanskrit and what comes through in English. Perhaps you can

> > elaborate to make me understand since you have the distinction

clear

> > in your mind. In English, the word intelligence generally only

means

> > analytical ability: the ability to find underlying *common

patterns*

> > in *seemingly* unrelated situations, problems etc. In all the

> > varying definitions you will find, what I have just mentioned is

the

> > essential underlying import. First, is this what you mean when

you

> > use the word " intelligence " ? Second, this is a rather broad

> > definition - I have seen the word intelligence being used for:

> > Lagna, Paka Lagna, Mercury, Jupiter, 3rd house, 5th house, and I

> > strongly suspect they mean slightly or greatly different things

each

> > time, and I want to know what. Answering the following question

will

> > help you clarify what you mean by intelligent in this context:

If a

> > person has a strong Lagna but weak Mercury, weak 3rd house and

lord,

> > weak 5th house and lord, weak Jupiter, then exactly what type

> > of " individual intelligence " does the strong Lagna confer on the

> > native?

> >

> > 4) If Lagna is not *at any level* the " will to live " , then how

> > exactly does vargottama Lagna confer long life. In Sanjay

Rathji's

> > Atri lectures I think, I remember hearing or (mis?)understanding

> > that vargottama means some inherent quality that is sure to

> > manifest. Why would long life be inherent with Lagna then?

Perhaps,

> > rewording my original thought, Lagna is " will to play out its

> > karma " , which in a way is a precursor to " will to live " ?

> >

> > Thank you very much in advance,

> >

> > Sundeep

> >

> > >

> > > 1. Lagna is a point where the sign is rising on the horizon.

> > Parasara

> > > defines it as Rasi not as Bhava.

> > > 2. Malefic / benefic is naisargik definition and related to

mind,

> > > therefore good and bad emotions, it relates to mind.

> > > 3. Will to live comes from 3H from AK, while Lagna shows

> > inteligence -

> > > medium which hears the mind and make the choices based on whole

> > spectrum

> > > called Linga Sarira.

> > > 4. Lagna is individual inteligence, personality and reactive

> > > inteligence. While Atma is described by Atmakaraka. Surya is

> > Sarvatma.

> > > 5. Functional malefic is funny term. Maraka has nothing to do

with

> > > naisargik and tatkalik division. Dont divide grahas for

temporal

> > > benefic/malefic as the chart can change whole thing. Be

holistic.

> > > 6. Malefic refers to emotions they create. Its called Krura

> > grahas,

> > > similar term. Emotion is good or bad apriori, but the usage,

> > motive and

> > > level is based on lordship, CK and Varga. Still its only

> > generalization.

> > > 7. Parasara talks also about Uttama, Madhyama graha's where

Ketu

> > is in

> > > the upper group, Guna is also completely other classification

and

> > refers

> > > to mobility and direction - try Gita 14,17,18 chapters.

> > >

> > > This is of course only one way to see these things..

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > -------------------------

> > -----

> > > Regards,

> > > *Rafal Gendarz,*

> > > www.rohinaa.com <http://www.rohinaa.com

<http://www.rohinaa.com>>

> > >

> > >

> > > vedicastrostudent napisa?(a):

> > > >

> > > > Dear all,

> > > > Seemingly stupid question: " What is Lagna " ? I dont really

want to

> > > > know what the Lagna *influences*, but what it inherently

*is*.

> > It's

> > > > definitely not the physical body because then Lagna would

have no

> > > > meaning in higher charts. What quantity or entity does it

then

> > > > signify? Since vargottama Lagna indicates long life, Lagna

could

> > > > mean inherent life " force " i.e. the inner " will " to live.

Since

> > > > Lagna is what determines Bhavas or houses (because without

it,

> > there

> > > > are just grahas in various rashis, there is no concept of

> > numbered

> > > > houses), there is definitely something which implies

> > individuality

> > > > in there. So it could be the inherent " fire of individuality "

> > > > within? But then, how is different from the Atma?

> > > >

> > > > This line of thinking originated because I started trying to

> > define

> > > > in my mind " What is a malefic? " . So I thought, a malefic has

to

> > be a

> > > > malefic *in relation to something*, right? So, a *functional*

> > > > malefic is a malefic to the Lagna. But a functional malefic

is a

> > > > maraka only if it is in the 2nd or 7th not otherwise.

> > > >

> > > > Of course, I am still left with the original question too -

What

> > is

> > > > a natural malefic? What is it malefic *to*? There may be

malefics

> > > > with saatwik guna, and there are benefics with rajasik guna,

so

> > its

> > > > not their inherent guna either.

> > > >

> > > > Any and all inputs are appreciated. Hope these questions are

not

> > too

> > > > basic for such a forum - please ignore if they are.. If

there is

> > > > something very basic I'm missing, please point me to it and

I'll

> > > > read it up..

> > > >

> > > > Thanks much,

> > > >

> > > > Sundeep

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

II hraum namah adityaya II

 

 

 

 

Dear Sundeep , Namaskar

 

 

Where is Your Lagna and AL, and

where is Your Rahu in Your kundali?

 

 

 

 

 

Regards,

Rafal Gendarz,

www.rohinaa.com

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

vedicastrostudent napisał(a):

 

 

 

 

Dear Rafalji,

I am sorry but I think that perhaps because I am a "nobody" you

arent paying enough attention to what I am saying. Let me try one

more time, by pointing out *exactly* where you are missing what I am

saying.

 

> 1. First house is house which sign is rising on the *horizon*.

Simple as

> that.

 

And? Please elucidate on your point. What is the point you are

trying to make? The point I was trying to make is that the moment of

birth fixes the Lagna, and consequently/ concurrently the houses.

Lagna just does not happen by accident to be in the first house,

does it? When we say the second house determines sustenance, it is

sustenance of what? When we say seventh house determines

relationships, whose relationships? Ninth is dharma - whose dharma?

We are talking of some entity, right? Where is that entity centered?

 

> 2. Person in Satva guna enjoys auspicious objects of senses, the

> benefics in satwa guna shows the highest standart of enjoyment

with

> quality of sat, cit and ananda, while benefics in rajo guna has

always

> frustration on the end because this substance of hapiness is

lacking of

> knowledge about real nature of enjoyer (ie. atma). To enjoy tamo

guna

> substances with jnanendriyas person must be in tamoguna and this

cause

> diseases (Srimad Bhagavatam 11 canto).If You dont know what is

good

> emotion then I cant help You further.

 

dear rafalji, I urge you to look carefully at what you yourself have

written. You have not pointed out ANY other basis for good and bad

other than guna. So the original quandary remains: If malefic and

benefic are different from guna, exactly how - why dont we say 6th

house lord is "functionally tamasik/rajasik" ? I was stuck at exactly

the same point and I was unable to proceed. My original question

was - what is malefic and what is benefic? Malefic to whom and

benefic to whom? I also tried to use guna to find out an absolute

meaning to malefic and benefic. But some malefics have satwa guna,

and some benefics have rajo guna. So the malefic/benefic distinction

DOES NOT map cleanly onto the satwa/rajo/tamas guna distinction. You

have so far only said: malefic/benefic leads to "bad"/"good"

EMOTIONS in the MIND. Leaving "bad" and "good" to our imagination. I

agree with you everyone knows what is good and bad FOR THEM. What is

absolute good/absolute bad. Leading to God/away from God? So is that

what the malefic/benefic distinction is? To complicate matters

further, I see at Sarbaniji's site that the 9th house is supposed to

be a tamasik house and at the same time the 9th lord is the biggest

functional benefic, right?

 

> 3. I propose to You articcle written by Visti Ji "Jnana Yoga" on

his

> site. Lagna is reactive inteligence, something like default

attitude,

> Paka Lagna shows applied or active inteligence where You make a

choice,

> where You interact with people and surrounding. Mercury shows

ability to

> learn and ask question while Jupiter shows learnin skills and

memory

> (everyone remember discussion between Sanjay Ji and Narasimha Ji

about

> this). Fifth bhava shows Viveka per Sarwartha Cintamani and other

> classics, third bhava shows Guruupadesa and Gurubhay, it also

shows our

> arsenal - so like what we have in hands - this will show our

values

> (aspect on ninth) but that has nothing to do with topic in

straight way.

> I agree with You WORDS ARE VERY IMPORTANT IN JYOTISH therefore its

 

good

> to memorize phrases used by person who has contemplated the topic.

 

> Affliction to Lagna can makes one seeing flying pigs, while

affliction

> to fifth makes that one things he is Hitler or very important

> personality. So second is connected to discrimination.

 

I will, thank you.

 

> 4. Bandhana on Lagna decrease lifespan so Vargotam make it

stronger.

> Vargotam of element means that this will be related to all

signification

> of first bhava like health, fame etc. Longevity is counted from

first,

> eigth (or fifth) and tenth - therefore Vargotama Lagna is like

strong or

> blessed Lagna.

 

I am sorry, but this is just plain faulty logic. You are using a

conclusion of your theory to justify the assumptions that led to the

conclusion in the first place! Bandhan on Lagna decreases lifespan

because Lagna in *some way affects lifespan*, no? The original

question was *why* exactly does it deal with lifespan? ASSUMING THAT

IT DOES, of course, bandhan will limit it. But that does not justify

that it does.

 

Thanks

 

Sundeep

 

>

>

>

> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

-----

> Regards,

> *Rafal Gendarz,*

> www.rohinaa. com <http://www.rohinaa.

com>

>

>

>

> vedicastrostudent napisa?(a):

> >

> > Dear Rafalji,

> >

> > Thank you for your reply. In general, while I have definitely

got

> > some pointers, I am still quite unclear and I hope you can

elaborate

> > a bit.

> >

> > Specifically:

> > 1) When you say that Parasara defines Lagna with respect to

sign, do

> > you mean that he has a separate definition somewhere else that

> > defines what is the "first" house in the chart? "First" house

> > is "first" with respect to what? Wherever he explicitly or

> > implicitly implies that the Lagna point is always in the

"First"

> > house, he *must* essentially be implying Lagna defines the

house

> > system. Unless he explicitly or implicitly indicates

otherwise.

Does

> > he? Does the Lagna just happen to be in the first house, or

does

it

> > define the first house as the one that contains it?

> >

> > 2) When you say Malefic and Benefic relates to the emotions in

> > creates in the mind, I find that interesting, because you

have

given

> > the mind as a clue. But then, in a way pass the problem

onward,

> > when you say "emotion is good or bad, *a priori*". Meaning

what?

> > It's like saying malefic and benefic, a priori. Without proof?

> > That's what the question was to begin with.

> >

> > 3) When you say Lagna is individual intelligence, personality

and

> > reactive intelligence, frankly speaking I am unsatisfied. I

feel

that

> > somewhere the link has been lost between the original

statements

in

> > Sanskrit and what comes through in English. Perhaps you can

> > elaborate to make me understand since you have the

distinction

clear

> > in your mind. In English, the word intelligence generally

only

means

> > analytical ability: the ability to find underlying *common

patterns*

> > in *seemingly* unrelated situations, problems etc. In all the

> > varying definitions you will find, what I have just mentioned

is

the

> > essential underlying import. First, is this what you mean

when

you

> > use the word "intelligence" ? Second, this is a rather broad

> > definition - I have seen the word intelligence being used for:

> > Lagna, Paka Lagna, Mercury, Jupiter, 3rd house, 5th house,

and I

> > strongly suspect they mean slightly or greatly different

things

each

> > time, and I want to know what. Answering the following

question

will

> > help you clarify what you mean by intelligent in this

context:

If a

> > person has a strong Lagna but weak Mercury, weak 3rd house

and

lord,

> > weak 5th house and lord, weak Jupiter, then exactly what type

> > of "individual intelligence" does the strong Lagna confer on

the

> > native?

> >

> > 4) If Lagna is not *at any level* the "will to live", then how

> > exactly does vargottama Lagna confer long life. In Sanjay

Rathji's

> > Atri lectures I think, I remember hearing or

(mis?)understanding

> > that vargottama means some inherent quality that is sure to

> > manifest. Why would long life be inherent with Lagna then?

Perhaps,

> > rewording my original thought, Lagna is "will to play out its

> > karma", which in a way is a precursor to "will to live"?

> >

> > Thank you very much in advance,

> >

> > Sundeep

> >

> > >

> > > 1. Lagna is a point where the sign is rising on the

horizon.

> > Parasara

> > > defines it as Rasi not as Bhava.

> > > 2. Malefic / benefic is naisargik definition and related

to

mind,

> > > therefore good and bad emotions, it relates to mind.

> > > 3. Will to live comes from 3H from AK, while Lagna shows

> > inteligence -

> > > medium which hears the mind and make the choices based

on whole

> > spectrum

> > > called Linga Sarira.

> > > 4. Lagna is individual inteligence, personality and

reactive

> > > inteligence. While Atma is described by Atmakaraka.

Surya is

> > Sarvatma.

> > > 5. Functional malefic is funny term. Maraka has nothing

to do

with

> > > naisargik and tatkalik division. Dont divide grahas for

temporal

> > > benefic/malefic as the chart can change whole thing. Be

holistic.

> > > 6. Malefic refers to emotions they create. Its called

Krura

> > grahas,

> > > similar term. Emotion is good or bad apriori, but the

usage,

> > motive and

> > > level is based on lordship, CK and Varga. Still its only

> > generalization.

> > > 7. Parasara talks also about Uttama, Madhyama graha's

where

Ketu

> > is in

> > > the upper group, Guna is also completely other

classification

and

> > refers

> > > to mobility and direction - try Gita 14,17,18 chapters.

> > >

> > > This is of course only one way to see these things..

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- ---------

--------- -

> > -----

> > > Regards,

> > > *Rafal Gendarz,*

> > > www.rohinaa. com <http://www.rohinaa.

com

<http://www.rohinaa. com>>

> > >

> > >

> > > vedicastrostudent napisa?(a):

> > > >

> > > > Dear all,

> > > > Seemingly stupid question: "What is Lagna"? I dont

really

want to

> > > > know what the Lagna *influences* , but what it

inherently

*is*.

> > It's

> > > > definitely not the physical body because then Lagna

would

have no

> > > > meaning in higher charts. What quantity or entity

does it

then

> > > > signify? Since vargottama Lagna indicates long

life, Lagna

could

> > > > mean inherent life "force" i.e. the inner "will" to

live.

Since

> > > > Lagna is what determines Bhavas or houses (because

without

it,

> > there

> > > > are just grahas in various rashis, there is no

concept of

> > numbered

> > > > houses), there is definitely something which implies

> > individuality

> > > > in there. So it could be the inherent "fire of

individuality"

> > > > within? But then, how is different from the Atma?

> > > >

> > > > This line of thinking originated because I started

trying to

> > define

> > > > in my mind "What is a malefic?". So I thought, a

malefic has

to

> > be a

> > > > malefic *in relation to something*, right? So, a

*functional*

> > > > malefic is a malefic to the Lagna. But a functional

malefic

is a

> > > > maraka only if it is in the 2nd or 7th not

otherwise.

> > > >

> > > > Of course, I am still left with the original

question too -

What

> > is

> > > > a natural malefic? What is it malefic *to*? There

may be

malefics

> > > > with saatwik guna, and there are benefics with

rajasik guna,

so

> > its

> > > > not their inherent guna either.

> > > >

> > > > Any and all inputs are appreciated. Hope these

questions are

not

> > too

> > > > basic for such a forum - please ignore if they

are.. If

there is

> > > > something very basic I'm missing, please point me

to it and

I'll

> > > > read it up..

> > > >

> > > > Thanks much,

> > > >

> > > > Sundeep

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Rafalji,

I had a feeling you would ask about my Rahu :-) I apologize if I

offended you. Lagna Aquarius, AL Aries (according to the standard

calculations), Rahu in AL. This will probably confirm your

suspicions. However, I personally dont feel that my AL is Aries,

rather I feel it is Gemini since I made a huge amount of money

(seven figures in USD) when ALL planets were transiting Aries in

2000 (which is 11th from Gemini) and lost it all when they moved to

Taurus in 2001 (which is 12th from Gemini). Anyway, you're probably

not interested in all that - I only tell you because I feel my AL

calculation is not exactly correct. Here's the birthdata if you want

a deeper look:

29June 1967, 23:00pm, +5:30GMT 78E46, 22N12

 

Thanks,

Sundeep

 

 

 

sohamsa , Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme

wrote:

>

> II hraum namah adityaya II

> Dear Sundeep , Namaskar

> -

-----

> Where is Your Lagna and AL, and where is Your Rahu in Your kundali?

>

>

> -

-----

> Regards,

> *Rafal Gendarz,*

> www.rohinaa.com <http://www.rohinaa.com>

>

>

>

> vedicastrostudent napisa?(a):

> >

> > Dear Rafalji,

> > I am sorry but I think that perhaps because I am a " nobody " you

> > arent paying enough attention to what I am saying. Let me try one

> > more time, by pointing out *exactly* where you are missing what

I am

> > saying.

> >

> > > 1. First house is house which sign is rising on the *horizon*.

> > Simple as

> > > that.

> >

> > And? Please elucidate on your point. What is the point you are

> > trying to make? The point I was trying to make is that the

moment of

> > birth fixes the Lagna, and consequently/ concurrently the houses.

> > Lagna just does not happen by accident to be in the first house,

> > does it? When we say the second house determines sustenance, it

is

> > sustenance of what? When we say seventh house determines

> > relationships, whose relationships? Ninth is dharma - whose

dharma?

> > We are talking of some entity, right? Where is that entity

centered?

> >

> > > 2. Person in Satva guna enjoys auspicious objects of senses,

the

> > > benefics in satwa guna shows the highest standart of enjoyment

> > with

> > > quality of sat, cit and ananda, while benefics in rajo guna has

> > always

> > > frustration on the end because this substance of hapiness is

> > lacking of

> > > knowledge about real nature of enjoyer (ie. atma). To enjoy

tamo

> > guna

> > > substances with jnanendriyas person must be in tamoguna and

this

> > cause

> > > diseases (Srimad Bhagavatam 11 canto).If You dont know what is

> > good

> > > emotion then I cant help You further.

> >

> > dear rafalji, I urge you to look carefully at what you yourself

have

> > written. You have not pointed out ANY other basis for good and

bad

> > other than guna. So the original quandary remains: If malefic and

> > benefic are different from guna, exactly how - why dont we say

6th

> > house lord is " functionally tamasik/rajasik " ? I was stuck at

exactly

> > the same point and I was unable to proceed. My original question

> > was - what is malefic and what is benefic? Malefic to whom and

> > benefic to whom? I also tried to use guna to find out an absolute

> > meaning to malefic and benefic. But some malefics have satwa

guna,

> > and some benefics have rajo guna. So the malefic/benefic

distinction

> > DOES NOT map cleanly onto the satwa/rajo/tamas guna distinction.

You

> > have so far only said: malefic/benefic leads to " bad " / " good "

> > EMOTIONS in the MIND. Leaving " bad " and " good " to our

imagination. I

> > agree with you everyone knows what is good and bad FOR THEM.

What is

> > absolute good/absolute bad. Leading to God/away from God? So is

that

> > what the malefic/benefic distinction is? To complicate matters

> > further, I see at Sarbaniji's site that the 9th house is

supposed to

> > be a tamasik house and at the same time the 9th lord is the

biggest

> > functional benefic, right?

> >

> > > 3. I propose to You articcle written by Visti Ji " Jnana Yoga "

on

> > his

> > > site. Lagna is reactive inteligence, something like default

> > attitude,

> > > Paka Lagna shows applied or active inteligence where You make a

> > choice,

> > > where You interact with people and surrounding. Mercury shows

> > ability to

> > > learn and ask question while Jupiter shows learnin skills and

> > memory

> > > (everyone remember discussion between Sanjay Ji and Narasimha

Ji

> > about

> > > this). Fifth bhava shows Viveka per Sarwartha Cintamani and

other

> > > classics, third bhava shows Guruupadesa and Gurubhay, it also

> > shows our

> > > arsenal - so like what we have in hands - this will show our

> > values

> > > (aspect on ninth) but that has nothing to do with topic in

> > straight way.

> > > I agree with You WORDS ARE VERY IMPORTANT IN JYOTISH therefore

its

> > good

> > > to memorize phrases used by person who has contemplated the

topic.

> > > Affliction to Lagna can makes one seeing flying pigs, while

> > affliction

> > > to fifth makes that one things he is Hitler or very important

> > > personality. So second is connected to discrimination.

> >

> > I will, thank you.

> >

> > > 4. Bandhana on Lagna decrease lifespan so Vargotam make it

> > stronger.

> > > Vargotam of element means that this will be related to all

> > signification

> > > of first bhava like health, fame etc. Longevity is counted from

> > first,

> > > eigth (or fifth) and tenth - therefore Vargotama Lagna is like

> > strong or

> > > blessed Lagna.

> >

> > I am sorry, but this is just plain faulty logic. You are using a

> > conclusion of your theory to justify the assumptions that led to

the

> > conclusion in the first place! Bandhan on Lagna decreases

lifespan

> > because Lagna in *some way affects lifespan*, no? The original

> > question was *why* exactly does it deal with lifespan? ASSUMING

THAT

> > IT DOES, of course, bandhan will limit it. But that does not

justify

> > that it does.

> >

> > Thanks

> >

> > Sundeep

> >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

-

> > -----

> > > Regards,

> > > *Rafal Gendarz,*

> > > www.rohinaa. com <http://www.rohinaa. com

<http://www.rohinaa.com>>

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > vedicastrostudent napisa?(a):

> > > >

> > > > Dear Rafalji,

> > > >

> > > > Thank you for your reply. In general, while I have

definitely got

> > > > some pointers, I am still quite unclear and I hope you can

> > elaborate

> > > > a bit.

> > > >

> > > > Specifically:

> > > > 1) When you say that Parasara defines Lagna with respect to

> > sign, do

> > > > you mean that he has a separate definition somewhere else

that

> > > > defines what is the " first " house in the chart? " First " house

> > > > is " first " with respect to what? Wherever he explicitly or

> > > > implicitly implies that the Lagna point is always in

the " First "

> > > > house, he *must* essentially be implying Lagna defines the

house

> > > > system. Unless he explicitly or implicitly indicates

otherwise.

> > Does

> > > > he? Does the Lagna just happen to be in the first house, or

does

> > it

> > > > define the first house as the one that contains it?

> > > >

> > > > 2) When you say Malefic and Benefic relates to the emotions

in

> > > > creates in the mind, I find that interesting, because you

have

> > given

> > > > the mind as a clue. But then, in a way pass the problem

onward,

> > > > when you say " emotion is good or bad, *a priori* " . Meaning

what?

> > > > It's like saying malefic and benefic, a priori. Without

proof?

> > > > That's what the question was to begin with.

> > > >

> > > > 3) When you say Lagna is individual intelligence,

personality and

> > > > reactive intelligence, frankly speaking I am unsatisfied. I

feel

> > that

> > > > somewhere the link has been lost between the original

statements

> > in

> > > > Sanskrit and what comes through in English. Perhaps you can

> > > > elaborate to make me understand since you have the

distinction

> > clear

> > > > in your mind. In English, the word intelligence generally

only

> > means

> > > > analytical ability: the ability to find underlying *common

> > patterns*

> > > > in *seemingly* unrelated situations, problems etc. In all the

> > > > varying definitions you will find, what I have just

mentioned is

> > the

> > > > essential underlying import. First, is this what you mean

when

> > you

> > > > use the word " intelligence " ? Second, this is a rather broad

> > > > definition - I have seen the word intelligence being used

for:

> > > > Lagna, Paka Lagna, Mercury, Jupiter, 3rd house, 5th house,

and I

> > > > strongly suspect they mean slightly or greatly different

things

> > each

> > > > time, and I want to know what. Answering the following

question

> > will

> > > > help you clarify what you mean by intelligent in this

context:

> > If a

> > > > person has a strong Lagna but weak Mercury, weak 3rd house

and

> > lord,

> > > > weak 5th house and lord, weak Jupiter, then exactly what type

> > > > of " individual intelligence " does the strong Lagna confer on

the

> > > > native?

> > > >

> > > > 4) If Lagna is not *at any level* the " will to live " , then

how

> > > > exactly does vargottama Lagna confer long life. In Sanjay

> > Rathji's

> > > > Atri lectures I think, I remember hearing or (mis?)

understanding

> > > > that vargottama means some inherent quality that is sure to

> > > > manifest. Why would long life be inherent with Lagna then?

> > Perhaps,

> > > > rewording my original thought, Lagna is " will to play out its

> > > > karma " , which in a way is a precursor to " will to live " ?

> > > >

> > > > Thank you very much in advance,

> > > >

> > > > Sundeep

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 1. Lagna is a point where the sign is rising on the

horizon.

> > > > Parasara

> > > > > defines it as Rasi not as Bhava.

> > > > > 2. Malefic / benefic is naisargik definition and related to

> > mind,

> > > > > therefore good and bad emotions, it relates to mind.

> > > > > 3. Will to live comes from 3H from AK, while Lagna shows

> > > > inteligence -

> > > > > medium which hears the mind and make the choices based on

whole

> > > > spectrum

> > > > > called Linga Sarira.

> > > > > 4. Lagna is individual inteligence, personality and

reactive

> > > > > inteligence. While Atma is described by Atmakaraka. Surya

is

> > > > Sarvatma.

> > > > > 5. Functional malefic is funny term. Maraka has nothing to

do

> > with

> > > > > naisargik and tatkalik division. Dont divide grahas for

> > temporal

> > > > > benefic/malefic as the chart can change whole thing. Be

> > holistic.

> > > > > 6. Malefic refers to emotions they create. Its called Krura

> > > > grahas,

> > > > > similar term. Emotion is good or bad apriori, but the

usage,

> > > > motive and

> > > > > level is based on lordship, CK and Varga. Still its only

> > > > generalization.

> > > > > 7. Parasara talks also about Uttama, Madhyama graha's where

> > Ketu

> > > > is in

> > > > > the upper group, Guna is also completely other

classification

> > and

> > > > refers

> > > > > to mobility and direction - try Gita 14,17,18 chapters.

> > > > >

> > > > > This is of course only one way to see these things..

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ------

--- -

> > > > -----

> > > > > Regards,

> > > > > *Rafal Gendarz,*

> > > > > www.rohinaa. com <http://www.rohinaa. com

<http://www.rohinaa.com>

> > <http://www.rohinaa. com <http://www.rohinaa.com>>>

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > vedicastrostudent napisa?(a):

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear all,

> > > > > > Seemingly stupid question: " What is Lagna " ? I dont really

> > want to

> > > > > > know what the Lagna *influences* , but what it inherently

> > *is*.

> > > > It's

> > > > > > definitely not the physical body because then Lagna would

> > have no

> > > > > > meaning in higher charts. What quantity or entity does it

> > then

> > > > > > signify? Since vargottama Lagna indicates long life,

Lagna

> > could

> > > > > > mean inherent life " force " i.e. the inner " will " to live.

> > Since

> > > > > > Lagna is what determines Bhavas or houses (because

without

> > it,

> > > > there

> > > > > > are just grahas in various rashis, there is no concept of

> > > > numbered

> > > > > > houses), there is definitely something which implies

> > > > individuality

> > > > > > in there. So it could be the inherent " fire of

individuality "

> > > > > > within? But then, how is different from the Atma?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > This line of thinking originated because I started

trying to

> > > > define

> > > > > > in my mind " What is a malefic? " . So I thought, a malefic

has

> > to

> > > > be a

> > > > > > malefic *in relation to something*, right? So, a

*functional*

> > > > > > malefic is a malefic to the Lagna. But a functional

malefic

> > is a

> > > > > > maraka only if it is in the 2nd or 7th not otherwise.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Of course, I am still left with the original question

too -

> > What

> > > > is

> > > > > > a natural malefic? What is it malefic *to*? There may be

> > malefics

> > > > > > with saatwik guna, and there are benefics with rajasik

guna,

> > so

> > > > its

> > > > > > not their inherent guna either.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Any and all inputs are appreciated. Hope these questions

are

> > not

> > > > too

> > > > > > basic for such a forum - please ignore if they are.. If

> > there is

> > > > > > something very basic I'm missing, please point me to it

and

> > I'll

> > > > > > read it up..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thanks much,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Sundeep

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

II hraum namah adityaya II

 

Dear Sundeep , Namaskar

 

 

Sounds similar to my style.. I

have Rahu in Lagna, therefore I asked. This Rahu will give You depth in

Jyotish but sometimes it will be terrible..as it doesnt accept

reasonable and easy issues. This is how the classic philosphy

started..they end up frustrated but still they honour theirs

methodology. Therefore Jyotish is Ketu, not Rahu...and this Rahu

without Surya or Jupiter make the Jyotish studies fruitless as You

couldnt communitcate through Akash Tattwa which is core of Jyotish

sadhana. Never give up Guru mantra's.

 

 

 

 

 

Regards,

Rafal Gendarz,

www.rohinaa.com

 

 

 

vedicastrostudent napisał(a):

 

 

 

 

Dear Rafalji,

I had a feeling you would ask about my Rahu :-) I apologize if I

offended you. Lagna Aquarius, AL Aries (according to the standard

calculations) , Rahu in AL. This will probably confirm your

suspicions. However, I personally dont feel that my AL is Aries,

rather I feel it is Gemini since I made a huge amount of money

(seven figures in USD) when ALL planets were transiting Aries in

2000 (which is 11th from Gemini) and lost it all when they moved to

Taurus in 2001 (which is 12th from Gemini). Anyway, you're probably

not interested in all that - I only tell you because I feel my AL

calculation is not exactly correct. Here's the birthdata if you want

a deeper look:

29June 1967, 23:00pm, +5:30GMT 78E46, 22N12

 

Thanks,

Sundeep

 

sohamsa@

..com, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@ ...>

wrote:

>

> II hraum namah adityaya II

> Dear Sundeep , Namaskar

> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

-----

> Where is Your Lagna and AL, and where is Your Rahu in Your kundali?

>

>

> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

-----

> Regards,

> *Rafal Gendarz,*

> www.rohinaa. com <http://www.rohinaa.

com>

>

>

>

> vedicastrostudent napisa?(a):

> >

> > Dear Rafalji,

> > I am sorry but I think that perhaps because I am a "nobody"

you

> > arent paying enough attention to what I am saying. Let me try

one

> > more time, by pointing out *exactly* where you are missing

what

I am

> > saying.

> >

> > > 1. First house is house which sign is rising on the

*horizon*.

> > Simple as

> > > that.

> >

> > And? Please elucidate on your point. What is the point you are

> > trying to make? The point I was trying to make is that the

moment of

> > birth fixes the Lagna, and consequently/ concurrently the

houses.

> > Lagna just does not happen by accident to be in the first

house,

> > does it? When we say the second house determines sustenance,

it

is

> > sustenance of what? When we say seventh house determines

> > relationships, whose relationships? Ninth is dharma - whose

dharma?

> > We are talking of some entity, right? Where is that entity

centered?

> >

> > > 2. Person in Satva guna enjoys auspicious objects of

senses,

the

> > > benefics in satwa guna shows the highest standart of

enjoyment

> > with

> > > quality of sat, cit and ananda, while benefics in rajo

guna has

> > always

> > > frustration on the end because this substance of

hapiness is

> > lacking of

> > > knowledge about real nature of enjoyer (ie. atma). To

enjoy

tamo

> > guna

> > > substances with jnanendriyas person must be in tamoguna

and

this

> > cause

> > > diseases (Srimad Bhagavatam 11 canto).If You dont know

what is

> > good

> > > emotion then I cant help You further.

> >

> > dear rafalji, I urge you to look carefully at what you

yourself

have

> > written. You have not pointed out ANY other basis for good

and

bad

> > other than guna. So the original quandary remains: If malefic

and

> > benefic are different from guna, exactly how - why dont we

say

6th

> > house lord is "functionally tamasik/rajasik" ? I was stuck at

 

exactly

> > the same point and I was unable to proceed. My original

question

> > was - what is malefic and what is benefic? Malefic to whom and

> > benefic to whom? I also tried to use guna to find out an

absolute

> > meaning to malefic and benefic. But some malefics have satwa

guna,

> > and some benefics have rajo guna. So the malefic/benefic

distinction

> > DOES NOT map cleanly onto the satwa/rajo/tamas guna

distinction.

You

> > have so far only said: malefic/benefic leads to "bad"/"good"

> > EMOTIONS in the MIND. Leaving "bad" and "good" to our

imagination. I

> > agree with you everyone knows what is good and bad FOR THEM.

What is

> > absolute good/absolute bad. Leading to God/away from God? So

is

that

> > what the malefic/benefic distinction is? To complicate matters

> > further, I see at Sarbaniji's site that the 9th house is

supposed to

> > be a tamasik house and at the same time the 9th lord is the

biggest

> > functional benefic, right?

> >

> > > 3. I propose to You articcle written by Visti Ji "Jnana

Yoga"

on

> > his

> > > site. Lagna is reactive inteligence, something like

default

> > attitude,

> > > Paka Lagna shows applied or active inteligence where You

make a

> > choice,

> > > where You interact with people and surrounding. Mercury

shows

> > ability to

> > > learn and ask question while Jupiter shows learnin

skills and

> > memory

> > > (everyone remember discussion between Sanjay Ji and

Narasimha

Ji

> > about

> > > this). Fifth bhava shows Viveka per Sarwartha Cintamani

and

other

> > > classics, third bhava shows Guruupadesa and Gurubhay, it

also

> > shows our

> > > arsenal - so like what we have in hands - this will show

our

> > values

> > > (aspect on ninth) but that has nothing to do with topic

in

> > straight way.

> > > I agree with You WORDS ARE VERY IMPORTANT IN JYOTISH

therefore

its

> > good

> > > to memorize phrases used by person who has contemplated

the

topic.

> > > Affliction to Lagna can makes one seeing flying pigs,

while

> > affliction

> > > to fifth makes that one things he is Hitler or very

important

> > > personality. So second is connected to discrimination.

> >

> > I will, thank you.

> >

> > > 4. Bandhana on Lagna decrease lifespan so Vargotam make

it

> > stronger.

> > > Vargotam of element means that this will be related to

all

> > signification

> > > of first bhava like health, fame etc. Longevity is

counted from

> > first,

> > > eigth (or fifth) and tenth - therefore Vargotama Lagna

is like

> > strong or

> > > blessed Lagna.

> >

> > I am sorry, but this is just plain faulty logic. You are

using a

> > conclusion of your theory to justify the assumptions that led

to

the

> > conclusion in the first place! Bandhan on Lagna decreases

lifespan

> > because Lagna in *some way affects lifespan*, no? The original

> > question was *why* exactly does it deal with lifespan?

ASSUMING

THAT

> > IT DOES, of course, bandhan will limit it. But that does not

justify

> > that it does.

> >

> > Thanks

> >

> > Sundeep

> >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- ---------

---------

-

> > -----

> > > Regards,

> > > *Rafal Gendarz,*

> > > www.rohinaa. com <http://www.rohinaa.

com

<http://www.rohinaa. com>>

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > vedicastrostudent napisa?(a):

> > > >

> > > > Dear Rafalji,

> > > >

> > > > Thank you for your reply. In general, while I have

definitely got

> > > > some pointers, I am still quite unclear and I hope

you can

> > elaborate

> > > > a bit.

> > > >

> > > > Specifically:

> > > > 1) When you say that Parasara defines Lagna with

respect to

> > sign, do

> > > > you mean that he has a separate definition

somewhere else

that

> > > > defines what is the "first" house in the chart?

"First" house

> > > > is "first" with respect to what? Wherever he

explicitly or

> > > > implicitly implies that the Lagna point is always

in

the "First"

> > > > house, he *must* essentially be implying Lagna

defines the

house

> > > > system. Unless he explicitly or implicitly

indicates

otherwise.

> > Does

> > > > he? Does the Lagna just happen to be in the first

house, or

does

> > it

> > > > define the first house as the one that contains it?

> > > >

> > > > 2) When you say Malefic and Benefic relates to the

emotions

in

> > > > creates in the mind, I find that interesting,

because you

have

> > given

> > > > the mind as a clue. But then, in a way pass the

problem

onward,

> > > > when you say "emotion is good or bad, *a priori*".

Meaning

what?

> > > > It's like saying malefic and benefic, a priori.

Without

proof?

> > > > That's what the question was to begin with.

> > > >

> > > > 3) When you say Lagna is individual intelligence,

personality and

> > > > reactive intelligence, frankly speaking I am

unsatisfied. I

feel

> > that

> > > > somewhere the link has been lost between the

original

statements

> > in

> > > > Sanskrit and what comes through in English. Perhaps

you can

> > > > elaborate to make me understand since you have the

distinction

> > clear

> > > > in your mind. In English, the word intelligence

generally

only

> > means

> > > > analytical ability: the ability to find underlying

*common

> > patterns*

> > > > in *seemingly* unrelated situations, problems etc.

In all the

> > > > varying definitions you will find, what I have just

 

mentioned is

> > the

> > > > essential underlying import. First, is this what

you mean

when

> > you

> > > > use the word "intelligence" ? Second, this is a

rather broad

> > > > definition - I have seen the word intelligence

being used

for:

> > > > Lagna, Paka Lagna, Mercury, Jupiter, 3rd house, 5th

house,

and I

> > > > strongly suspect they mean slightly or greatly

different

things

> > each

> > > > time, and I want to know what. Answering the

following

question

> > will

> > > > help you clarify what you mean by intelligent in

this

context:

> > If a

> > > > person has a strong Lagna but weak Mercury, weak

3rd house

and

> > lord,

> > > > weak 5th house and lord, weak Jupiter, then exactly

what type

> > > > of "individual intelligence" does the strong Lagna

confer on

the

> > > > native?

> > > >

> > > > 4) If Lagna is not *at any level* the "will to

live", then

how

> > > > exactly does vargottama Lagna confer long life. In

Sanjay

> > Rathji's

> > > > Atri lectures I think, I remember hearing or (mis?)

understanding

> > > > that vargottama means some inherent quality that is

sure to

> > > > manifest. Why would long life be inherent with

Lagna then?

> > Perhaps,

> > > > rewording my original thought, Lagna is "will to

play out its

> > > > karma", which in a way is a precursor to "will to

live"?

> > > >

> > > > Thank you very much in advance,

> > > >

> > > > Sundeep

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 1. Lagna is a point where the sign is rising

on the

horizon.

> > > > Parasara

> > > > > defines it as Rasi not as Bhava.

> > > > > 2. Malefic / benefic is naisargik definition

and related to

> > mind,

> > > > > therefore good and bad emotions, it relates to

mind.

> > > > > 3. Will to live comes from 3H from AK, while

Lagna shows

> > > > inteligence -

> > > > > medium which hears the mind and make the

choices based on

whole

> > > > spectrum

> > > > > called Linga Sarira.

> > > > > 4. Lagna is individual inteligence,

personality and

reactive

> > > > > inteligence. While Atma is described by

Atmakaraka. Surya

is

> > > > Sarvatma.

> > > > > 5. Functional malefic is funny term. Maraka

has nothing to

do

> > with

> > > > > naisargik and tatkalik division. Dont divide

grahas for

> > temporal

> > > > > benefic/malefic as the chart can change whole

thing. Be

> > holistic.

> > > > > 6. Malefic refers to emotions they create. Its

called Krura

> > > > grahas,

> > > > > similar term. Emotion is good or bad apriori,

but the

usage,

> > > > motive and

> > > > > level is based on lordship, CK and Varga.

Still its only

> > > > generalization.

> > > > > 7. Parasara talks also about Uttama, Madhyama

graha's where

> > Ketu

> > > > is in

> > > > > the upper group, Guna is also completely other

 

classification

> > and

> > > > refers

> > > > > to mobility and direction - try Gita 14,17,18

chapters.

> > > > >

> > > > > This is of course only one way to see these

things..

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ---------

--------- ------

--- -

> > > > -----

> > > > > Regards,

> > > > > *Rafal Gendarz,*

> > > > > www.rohinaa. com <http://www.rohinaa. com

<http://www.rohinaa. com>

> > <http://www.rohinaa. com

<http://www.rohinaa. com>>>

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > vedicastrostudent napisa?(a):

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear all,

> > > > > > Seemingly stupid question: "What is

Lagna"? I dont really

> > want to

> > > > > > know what the Lagna *influences* , but

what it inherently

> > *is*.

> > > > It's

> > > > > > definitely not the physical body because

then Lagna would

> > have no

> > > > > > meaning in higher charts. What quantity

or entity does it

> > then

> > > > > > signify? Since vargottama Lagna indicates

long life,

Lagna

> > could

> > > > > > mean inherent life "force" i.e. the inner

"will" to live.

> > Since

> > > > > > Lagna is what determines Bhavas or houses

(because

without

> > it,

> > > > there

> > > > > > are just grahas in various rashis, there

is no concept of

> > > > numbered

> > > > > > houses), there is definitely something

which implies

> > > > individuality

> > > > > > in there. So it could be the inherent

"fire of

individuality"

> > > > > > within? But then, how is different from

the Atma?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > This line of thinking originated because

I started

trying to

> > > > define

> > > > > > in my mind "What is a malefic?". So I

thought, a malefic

has

> > to

> > > > be a

> > > > > > malefic *in relation to something*,

right? So, a

*functional*

> > > > > > malefic is a malefic to the Lagna. But a

functional

malefic

> > is a

> > > > > > maraka only if it is in the 2nd or 7th

not otherwise.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Of course, I am still left with the

original question

too -

> > What

> > > > is

> > > > > > a natural malefic? What is it malefic

*to*? There may be

> > malefics

> > > > > > with saatwik guna, and there are benefics

with rajasik

guna,

> > so

> > > > its

> > > > > > not their inherent guna either.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Any and all inputs are appreciated. Hope

these questions

are

> > not

> > > > too

> > > > > > basic for such a forum - please ignore if

they are.. If

> > there is

> > > > > > something very basic I'm missing, please

point me to it

and

> > I'll

> > > > > > read it up..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thanks much,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Sundeep

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

||Hare Ram Krishna||

Dear Rafal,

Namaskar

If you saw my previous mail about Rahu( Question of Rahu) could you please comment.

Thanks and regards

Sharat

 

 

-

Rafal Gendarz

sohamsa

Thursday, March 22, 2007 9:12 PM

Re: Re: What is Lagna? (followup questions - the matter is not so easily resolved)

 

 

 

II hraum namah adityaya II

 

Dear Sundeep , Namaskar

 

 

 

Sounds similar to my style.. I have Rahu in Lagna, therefore I asked. This Rahu will give You depth in Jyotish but sometimes it will be terrible..as it doesnt accept reasonable and easy issues. This is how the classic philosphy started..they end up frustrated but still they honour theirs methodology. Therefore Jyotish is Ketu, not Rahu...and this Rahu without Surya or Jupiter make the Jyotish studies fruitless as You couldnt communitcate through Akash Tattwa which is core of Jyotish sadhana. Never give up Guru mantra's.

 

 

 

 

 

Regards,

Rafal Gendarz,

www.rohinaa.comvedicastrostudent napisał(a):

 

 

 

Dear Rafalji,I had a feeling you would ask about my Rahu :-) I apologize if I offended you. Lagna Aquarius, AL Aries (according to the standard calculations) , Rahu in AL. This will probably confirm your suspicions. However, I personally dont feel that my AL is Aries, rather I feel it is Gemini since I made a huge amount of money (seven figures in USD) when ALL planets were transiting Aries in 2000 (which is 11th from Gemini) and lost it all when they moved to Taurus in 2001 (which is 12th from Gemini). Anyway, you're probably not interested in all that - I only tell you because I feel my AL calculation is not exactly correct. Here's the birthdata if you want a deeper look:29June 1967, 23:00pm, +5:30GMT 78E46, 22N12Thanks,Sundeepsohamsa@ .com, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@ ...> wrote:>> II hraum namah adityaya II> Dear Sundeep , Namaskar> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ------> Where is Your Lagna and AL, and where is Your Rahu in Your kundali?> > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ------> Regards,> *Rafal Gendarz,*> www.rohinaa. com <http://www.rohinaa. com>> > > > vedicastrostudent napisa?(a):> >> > Dear Rafalji,> > I am sorry but I think that perhaps because I am a "nobody" you> > arent paying enough attention to what I am saying. Let me try one> > more time, by pointing out *exactly* where you are missing what I am> > saying.> >> > > 1. First house is house which sign is rising on the *horizon*.> > Simple as> > > that.> >> > And? Please elucidate on your point. What is the point you are> > trying to make? The point I was trying to make is that the moment of> > birth fixes the Lagna, and consequently/ concurrently the houses.> > Lagna just does not happen by accident to be in the first house,> > does it? When we say the second house determines sustenance, it is> > sustenance of what? When we say seventh house determines> > relationships, whose relationships? Ninth is dharma - whose dharma?> > We are talking of some entity, right? Where is that entity centered?> >> > > 2. Person in Satva guna enjoys auspicious objects of senses, the> > > benefics in satwa guna shows the highest standart of enjoyment> > with> > > quality of sat, cit and ananda, while benefics in rajo guna has> > always> > > frustration on the end because this substance of hapiness is> > lacking of> > > knowledge about real nature of enjoyer (ie. atma). To enjoy tamo> > guna> > > substances with jnanendriyas person must be in tamoguna and this> > cause> > > diseases (Srimad Bhagavatam 11 canto).If You dont know what is> > good> > > emotion then I cant help You further.> >> > dear rafalji, I urge you to look carefully at what you yourself have> > written. You have not pointed out ANY other basis for good and bad> > other than guna. So the original quandary remains: If malefic and> > benefic are different from guna, exactly how - why dont we say 6th> > house lord is "functionally tamasik/rajasik" ? I was stuck at exactly> > the same point and I was unable to proceed. My original question> > was - what is malefic and what is benefic? Malefic to whom and> > benefic to whom? I also tried to use guna to find out an absolute> > meaning to malefic and benefic. But some malefics have satwa guna,> > and some benefics have rajo guna. So the malefic/benefic distinction> > DOES NOT map cleanly onto the satwa/rajo/tamas guna distinction. You> > have so far only said: malefic/benefic leads to "bad"/"good"> > EMOTIONS in the MIND. Leaving "bad" and "good" to our imagination. I> > agree with you everyone knows what is good and bad FOR THEM. What is> > absolute good/absolute bad. Leading to God/away from God? So is that> > what the malefic/benefic distinction is? To complicate matters> > further, I see at Sarbaniji's site that the 9th house is supposed to> > be a tamasik house and at the same time the 9th lord is the biggest> > functional benefic, right?> >> > > 3. I propose to You articcle written by Visti Ji "Jnana Yoga" on> > his> > > site. Lagna is reactive inteligence, something like default> > attitude,> > > Paka Lagna shows applied or active inteligence where You make a> > choice,> > > where You interact with people and surrounding. Mercury shows> > ability to> > > learn and ask question while Jupiter shows learnin skills and> > memory> > > (everyone remember discussion between Sanjay Ji and Narasimha Ji> > about> > > this). Fifth bhava shows Viveka per Sarwartha Cintamani and other> > > classics, third bhava shows Guruupadesa and Gurubhay, it also> > shows our> > > arsenal - so like what we have in hands - this will show our> > values> > > (aspect on ninth) but that has nothing to do with topic in> > straight way.> > > I agree with You WORDS ARE VERY IMPORTANT IN JYOTISH therefore its> > good> > > to memorize phrases used by person who has contemplated the topic.> > > Affliction to Lagna can makes one seeing flying pigs, while> > affliction> > > to fifth makes that one things he is Hitler or very important> > > personality. So second is connected to discrimination.> >> > I will, thank you.> >> > > 4. Bandhana on Lagna decrease lifespan so Vargotam make it> > stronger.> > > Vargotam of element means that this will be related to all> > signification> > > of first bhava like health, fame etc. Longevity is counted from> > first,> > > eigth (or fifth) and tenth - therefore Vargotama Lagna is like> > strong or> > > blessed Lagna.> >> > I am sorry, but this is just plain faulty logic. You are using a> > conclusion of your theory to justify the assumptions that led to the> > conclusion in the first place! Bandhan on Lagna decreases lifespan> > because Lagna in *some way affects lifespan*, no? The original> > question was *why* exactly does it deal with lifespan? ASSUMING THAT> > IT DOES, of course, bandhan will limit it. But that does not justify> > that it does.> >> > Thanks> >> > Sundeep> >> > >> > >> > >> > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ----------> > -----> > > Regards,> > > *Rafal Gendarz,*> > > www.rohinaa. com <http://www.rohinaa. com <http://www.rohinaa. com>>> > >> > >> > >> > > vedicastrostudent napisa?(a):> > > >> > > > Dear Rafalji,> > > >> > > > Thank you for your reply. In general, while I have definitely got> > > > some pointers, I am still quite unclear and I hope you can> > elaborate> > > > a bit.> > > >> > > > Specifically:> > > > 1) When you say that Parasara defines Lagna with respect to> > sign, do> > > > you mean that he has a separate definition somewhere else that> > > > defines what is the "first" house in the chart? "First" house> > > > is "first" with respect to what? Wherever he explicitly or> > > > implicitly implies that the Lagna point is always in the "First"> > > > house, he *must* essentially be implying Lagna defines the house> > > > system. Unless he explicitly or implicitly indicates otherwise.> > Does> > > > he? Does the Lagna just happen to be in the first house, or does> > it> > > > define the first house as the one that contains it?> > > >> > > > 2) When you say Malefic and Benefic relates to the emotions in> > > > creates in the mind, I find that interesting, because you have> > given> > > > the mind as a clue. But then, in a way pass the problem onward,> > > > when you say "emotion is good or bad, *a priori*". Meaning what?> > > > It's like saying malefic and benefic, a priori. Without proof?> > > > That's what the question was to begin with.> > > >> > > > 3) When you say Lagna is individual intelligence, personality and> > > > reactive intelligence, frankly speaking I am unsatisfied. I feel> > that> > > > somewhere the link has been lost between the original statements> > in> > > > Sanskrit and what comes through in English. Perhaps you can> > > > elaborate to make me understand since you have the distinction> > clear> > > > in your mind. In English, the word intelligence generally only> > means> > > > analytical ability: the ability to find underlying *common> > patterns*> > > > in *seemingly* unrelated situations, problems etc. In all the> > > > varying definitions you will find, what I have just mentioned is> > the> > > > essential underlying import. First, is this what you mean when> > you> > > > use the word "intelligence" ? Second, this is a rather broad> > > > definition - I have seen the word intelligence being used for:> > > > Lagna, Paka Lagna, Mercury, Jupiter, 3rd house, 5th house, and I> > > > strongly suspect they mean slightly or greatly different things> > each> > > > time, and I want to know what. Answering the following question> > will> > > > help you clarify what you mean by intelligent in this context:> > If a> > > > person has a strong Lagna but weak Mercury, weak 3rd house and> > lord,> > > > weak 5th house and lord, weak Jupiter, then exactly what type> > > > of "individual intelligence" does the strong Lagna confer on the> > > > native?> > > >> > > > 4) If Lagna is not *at any level* the "will to live", then how> > > > exactly does vargottama Lagna confer long life. In Sanjay> > Rathji's> > > > Atri lectures I think, I remember hearing or (mis?)understanding> > > > that vargottama means some inherent quality that is sure to> > > > manifest. Why would long life be inherent with Lagna then?> > Perhaps,> > > > rewording my original thought, Lagna is "will to play out its> > > > karma", which in a way is a precursor to "will to live"?> > > >> > > > Thank you very much in advance,> > > >> > > > Sundeep> > > >> > > > >> > > > > 1. Lagna is a point where the sign is rising on the horizon.> > > > Parasara> > > > > defines it as Rasi not as Bhava.> > > > > 2. Malefic / benefic is naisargik definition and related to> > mind,> > > > > therefore good and bad emotions, it relates to mind.> > > > > 3. Will to live comes from 3H from AK, while Lagna shows> > > > inteligence -> > > > > medium which hears the mind and make the choices based on whole> > > > spectrum> > > > > called Linga Sarira.> > > > > 4. Lagna is individual inteligence, personality and reactive> > > > > inteligence. While Atma is described by Atmakaraka. Surya is> > > > Sarvatma.> > > > > 5. Functional malefic is funny term. Maraka has nothing to do> > with> > > > > naisargik and tatkalik division. Dont divide grahas for> > temporal> > > > > benefic/malefic as the chart can change whole thing. Be> > holistic.> > > > > 6. Malefic refers to emotions they create. Its called Krura> > > > grahas,> > > > > similar term. Emotion is good or bad apriori, but the usage,> > > > motive and> > > > > level is based on lordship, CK and Varga. Still its only> > > > generalization.> > > > > 7. Parasara talks also about Uttama, Madhyama graha's where> > Ketu> > > > is in> > > > > the upper group, Guna is also completely other classification> > and> > > > refers> > > > > to mobility and direction - try Gita 14,17,18 chapters.> > > > >> > > > > This is of course only one way to see these things..> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -> > > > -----> > > > > Regards,> > > > > *Rafal Gendarz,*> > > > > www.rohinaa. com <http://www.rohinaa. com <http://www.rohinaa. com>> > <http://www.rohinaa. com <http://www.rohinaa. com>>>> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > vedicastrostudent napisa?(a):> > > > > >> > > > > > Dear all,> > > > > > Seemingly stupid question: "What is Lagna"? I dont really> > want to> > > > > > know what the Lagna *influences* , but what it inherently> > *is*.> > > > It's> > > > > > definitely not the physical body because then Lagna would> > have no> > > > > > meaning in higher charts. What quantity or entity does it> > then> > > > > > signify? Since vargottama Lagna indicates long life, Lagna> > could> > > > > > mean inherent life "force" i.e. the inner "will" to live.> > Since> > > > > > Lagna is what determines Bhavas or houses (because without> > it,> > > > there> > > > > > are just grahas in various rashis, there is no concept of> > > > numbered> > > > > > houses), there is definitely something which implies> > > > individuality> > > > > > in there. So it could be the inherent "fire of individuality"> > > > > > within? But then, how is different from the Atma?> > > > > >> > > > > > This line of thinking originated because I started trying to> > > > define> > > > > > in my mind "What is a malefic?". So I thought, a malefic has> > to> > > > be a> > > > > > malefic *in relation to something*, right? So, a *functional*> > > > > > malefic is a malefic to the Lagna. But a functional malefic> > is a> > > > > > maraka only if it is in the 2nd or 7th not otherwise.> > > > > >> > > > > > Of course, I am still left with the original question too -> > What> > > > is> > > > > > a natural malefic? What is it malefic *to*? There may be> > malefics> > > > > > with saatwik guna, and there are benefics with rajasik guna,> > so> > > > its> > > > > > not their inherent guna either.> > > > > >> > > > > > Any and all inputs are appreciated. Hope these questions are> > not> > > > too> > > > > > basic for such a forum - please ignore if they are.. If> > there is> > > > > > something very basic I'm missing, please point me to it and> > I'll> > > > > > read it up..> > > > > >> > > > > > Thanks much,> > > > > >> > > > > > Sundeep> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> >> >>

[Guest guest]

Dear Rafal,

Just a minor question this time: You said " Never give up Guru

mantra's " . Do you mean mantras for Jupiter or the mantra given by

the diksha Guru (I have none so far).

 

Thanks,

 

Sundeep

 

sohamsa , Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme

wrote:

>

> II hraum namah adityaya II

> Dear Sundeep , Namaskar

> -

-----

> Sounds similar to my style.. I have Rahu in Lagna, therefore I

asked.

> This Rahu will give You depth in Jyotish but sometimes it will be

> terrible..as it doesnt accept reasonable and easy issues. This is

how

> the classic philosphy started..they end up frustrated but still

they

> honour theirs methodology. Therefore Jyotish is Ketu, not

Rahu...and

> this Rahu without Surya or Jupiter make the Jyotish studies

fruitless as

> You couldnt communitcate through Akash Tattwa which is core of

Jyotish

> sadhana. Never give up Guru mantra's.

>

[Guest guest]

II hraum namah adityaya II

 

Dear Sundeep , Namaskar

 

 

I dont advise Graha mantra's. Try

Vyasa Mantra, start with good muhurta.

 

 

 

 

Regards,

Rafal Gendarz,

www.rohinaa.com

 

 

 

vedicastrostudent napisał(a):

 

 

 

 

Dear Rafal,

Just a minor question this time: You said "Never give up Guru

mantra's". Do you mean mantras for Jupiter or the mantra given by

the diksha Guru (I have none so far).

 

Thanks,

 

Sundeep

 

sohamsa@

..com, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@ ...>

wrote:

>

> II hraum namah adityaya II

> Dear Sundeep , Namaskar

> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

-----

> Sounds similar to my style.. I have Rahu in Lagna, therefore I

asked.

> This Rahu will give You depth in Jyotish but sometimes it will be

> terrible..as it doesnt accept reasonable and easy issues. This is

how

> the classic philosphy started..they end up frustrated but still

they

> honour theirs methodology. Therefore Jyotish is Ketu, not

Rahu...and

> this Rahu without Surya or Jupiter make the Jyotish studies

fruitless as

> You couldnt communitcate through Akash Tattwa which is core of

Jyotish

> sadhana. Never give up Guru mantra's.

>