Which planet is the Sikh Mul Mantra for?

[Guest guest]

Which planet is the The Mul mantra,

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mul_Mantra) composed by Guru Nanak upon

enlightenment, and which I believe is the core mantra in the Guru

Granth Sahib (I may be wrong), for?

 

The Sun? and which house will it target i.e. energy from which house

to which house etc? Is it a moksha mantra? Hope one of you mantra

analyzing experts can help me here (soul, sharat, any of the gurus of

course, and anyone else interested)..

 

Thanks,

 

Sundeep

[Guest guest]

Namaste Sri Sundeep

 

Ik Onkar Satnaam is the moola mantra because it is a Sabda Pramana of the Truth. I had written the meaning of this for very dear Sikh families upon their request. It is shared as below:

 

 

IK Onkaar Satnaam

By Anuj Bahl

 

 

Understanding of these three words will reveal the entire Japji Sahib. While teaching Truth, Gurus always use the direct method. They speak "what is" directly to you, in a single statement. "Ik Onkar Satnaam" is that statement. To translate it into English would be to limit its meaning. It is best to understand it.

 

 

ik oNkaar sat naam kartaa purakh nirbh-a-o nirvair akaal moorat ajoonee saibhN gur parsaad.

 

Ik Onkaar Satnaam:

 

The entire world that is around us, the solid structures, trees, animals, beings, water, rocks, mountains, and all else, is nothing but vibration. These objects exist in a state of vibration. Every vibration has a sound associated with it, though it may not be in the range of audible human frequency.

 

 

The thoughts in the mind are "heard" by you. They are nothing but sound. It can be said that the entire nature is nothing but sound.

 

"Onkaar" represents all sounds and the silence. It represents the entire nature as is seen, heard, felt, thought, etc. and includes the silence. A contention is raised that why it represents silence. When one speaks Onkaar, it starts with Silence and ends with Silence as else Onkaar will not be understood as a single word.

 

Silence, here, represents the awareness that watches and recognizes the vibrations. It stays still while the gambit of thoughts and feelings passes through the mind. Every vibration and every sound rises from the silence and merges back into it. The silence always remains.

 

"Onkaar" is the Truth. It always is. It is the Reality. Thoughts change, mind changes, nature changes, the awareness remains still. It remains the same. It always is Real. It is not subject to time. It is "Sat".

 

"Sat" means it is true. Onkaar is True.

 

A question comes, how is Onkaar not subject to time? Logical minds nowadays demand scientific explanations.

 

Let us define the time first. Time is the period between two experiences or events. In a singular experience of Silence, time vanishes. In deep sleep, there is no time as there is a singular experience. When you wake up, there is time as there are multiple experiences. Time is bound to causality (cause-effect) and to space (where events occur).

 

In silence, time has no meaning. The root of time itself is Onkaar. If no sound emerges from Onkaar, time cannot exist. Therefore, Onkaar, the Truth is not dependent or modified by time.

 

 

Onkaar is Sat. But how do we know it? Our mind can understand thoughts and sense stimuli. Our mind has to woken up through sound to this Truth. Therefore, Nanakji adds Naam to Sat.

 

Naam translates to name. It means "Onkaar" is the true name. Name is nothing but a sound. Mind thinks and remembers objects by their names. When the mind gets the words "Onkaar is Sat", they appear in form of sound. One can then remember it and Meditate upon it. Deep thinking about the Truth is meditation. "Ik Onkaar Satnaam" evokes meditativeness in one who hears it.

 

Every Guru bani is a sound. It is contained in "Onkaar". "Onkaar" is the truth, the awareness, the consciousness, the Lord.

 

"Ik" translates to one. Nanakji said it to reaffirm the only-ness. "Onkaar Satnaam" suffices. When there are no two, there isn't one either. There is only-ness. "Ik" is only-ness. Only "Onkaar" exists.

 

"Onkaar" is everything including me. I am "Onkaar" too, as only It exists. Therefore, it is followed by the word "Jap". Jap means to meditate. It does not mean to speak it with rosary beads. Meditate who you are; who the guru is; who the world is; who your enemies are; who your friends are; who is the trees; who is the air; who is the space. Only Onkaar exists. Remember. Mediate. Realize.

 

Guru is setting you free from bondage of suffering, but the mind will not seek it. Seek and you shall find. For everything that you can think, hear, or feel is "Onkaar". Only it exists. Including you.

 

Why is this separation? Guru Nanakji, asks you.

 

Here a contention is raised – how "IK" should be understood as Onlyness. It is simple to understand. We say "One" while recognizing there is two; three, etc. "One" exists in relation with the other numbers. Now, suppose there is "One" Truth and all of us are not contained in the Truth. This means that the Truth lies elsewhere and we lie elsewhere. This means Truth is limited by us and also limited by time and space. Therefore, this Truth (God) is changeable. Whereas Guru Nanakji says the Truth is Akaal. It is not subject to time or space or causation. Therefore, within it is all time and space. Therefore, we are also contained in it. Therefore, Only it exists. Therefore, "One" is only used for emphasis to people who think there are many Gods. It should be understood as Onlyness.

 

End of Article -

 

It is best not to find out self realization from Jyotish. The grahas can help in mumukshatvam but not in realization. In Vivekachoodamani, the qualities of a sincere seeker are given. If one studies it, it shall be easy to see what combinations may suggest mumukshatvam. Sabda Pramana of this kind should not be related to grahas. Only my opinion

 

 

Thanks and Regards

Bharat

 

 

On 7/27/07, vedicastrostudent <vedicastrostudent wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

Which planet is the The Mul mantra, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mul_Mantra) composed by Guru Nanak upon enlightenment, and which I believe is the core mantra in the Guru Granth Sahib (I may be wrong), for?The Sun? and which house will it target i.e. energy from which house to which house etc? Is it a moksha mantra? Hope one of you mantra analyzing experts can help me here (soul, sharat, any of the gurus of course, and anyone else interested)..Thanks,Sundeep

[Guest guest]

Dear Bharatji,

Thank you for the in-depth interpretation. I agree with you that

self realization is not going to come from Jyotish. But where is the

contradiction? In your interpretation, the clear statement is there

that everything is sound. Do you or dont you believe that mantra

chanting helps influence deeper levels of consciousness to vibrate

the " right-way " , thereby helping comprehend the deeper meaning of the

mantra itself and consequently pushing you in the direction of the

mantra's truth? I mean, if you dont believe the above, then mantra

chanting would be meaningless from that point of view - it would be

more meaningful to simply meditate on deeper truths - but then why

mantras at all - why not simply read the pramana and meditate on them?

 

My understanding was that using the mantra analysis techniques that

seem to be present in VRA (I have only read parts), we can identify

and correlate which mantra would be more meaningful to chant for which

person in which situation. So Jyotish and mantra analysis techniques

would not be used for self realization, but only in identification of

the " right " or the " best " self realization mantra/technique.. It is

in this regard that I wanted to know which " graha and bhava

classification " the Mul mantra comes under..

 

 

respectfully,

 

Sundeep

 

 

 

>

> It is best not to find out self realization from Jyotish. The grahas

can

> help in mumukshatvam but not in realization. In Vivekachoodamani, the

> qualities of a sincere seeker are given. If one studies it, it shall

be easy

> to see what combinations may suggest mumukshatvam. Sabda Pramana of

this

> kind should not be related to grahas. Only my opinion

>

> Thanks and Regards

> Bharat

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Namaste Sri Sundeep

 

Your post seems to suggest that I have spoken something against mantra chanting. Truly I did not say that.

 

Ek Onkar Satnam is the Sabda Pramana. The duty is to truly understand it. For doing the same, one may practice sravana (listening), manana (doing japa or mental japa and also attempting the analysis of the same), and niddhidhyasana.

 

Any mantra resonates either with the entireity or with a part of Natural forces. When we speak of Ek Onkar Satnaam - it resonates with the whole. How you relate it to yourself will become the defining cause to relate to a graha. In essence, it is the Guru mantra and one can take it to be from Lord Shiva himself.

 

 

Hope it makes better sense now.

 

Thanks and Regards

Bharat

 

 

On 7/27/07, vedicastrostudent <vedicastrostudent wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Bharatji,Thank you for the in-depth interpretation. I agree with you that self realization is not going to come from Jyotish. But where is thecontradiction? In your interpretation, the clear statement is there

that everything is sound. Do you or dont you believe that mantra chanting helps influence deeper levels of consciousness to vibrate the " right-way " , thereby helping comprehend the deeper meaning of the

mantra itself and consequently pushing you in the direction of the mantra's truth? I mean, if you dont believe the above, then mantrachanting would be meaningless from that point of view - it would be

more meaningful to simply meditate on deeper truths - but then whymantras at all - why not simply read the pramana and meditate on them?My understanding was that using the mantra analysis techniques thatseem to be present in VRA (I have only read parts), we can identify

and correlate which mantra would be more meaningful to chant for whichperson in which situation. So Jyotish and mantra analysis techniqueswould not be used for self realization, but only in identification of

the " right " or the " best " self realization mantra/technique.. It isin this regard that I wanted to know which " graha and bhava classification " the Mul mantra comes under..respectfully,

Sundeep> > It is best not to find out self realization from Jyotish. The grahas can> help in mumukshatvam but not in realization. In Vivekachoodamani, the> qualities of a sincere seeker are given. If one studies it, it shall be easy> to see what combinations may suggest mumukshatvam. Sabda Pramana of this> kind should not be related to grahas. Only my opinion > > Thanks and Regards> Bharat> > >

[Guest guest]

||Namah Shivaya||

Dear Sandeep,

I think self realisation will come from Jyotish...for it is the Light of God and not just astrology.

The original Q you asked regarding Mool mantra by Guru Nanak, is a difficult one to answer as it needs correlation with Jyotish concepts.

Look at it being a teaching of the Guru, hence Guru mantra and coming from God himself, which is Narayana.

Best wishes

Sharat

sohamsa , "vedicastrostudent" <vedicastrostudent wrote:>> Dear Bharatji,> Thank you for the in-depth interpretation. I agree with you that > self realization is not going to come from Jyotish. But where is the> contradiction? In your interpretation, the clear statement is there> that everything is sound. Do you or dont you believe that mantra > chanting helps influence deeper levels of consciousness to vibrate > the "right-way", thereby helping comprehend the deeper meaning of the> mantra itself and consequently pushing you in the direction of the > mantra's truth? I mean, if you dont believe the above, then mantra> chanting would be meaningless from that point of view - it would be > more meaningful to simply meditate on deeper truths - but then why> mantras at all - why not simply read the pramana and meditate on them?> > My understanding was that using the mantra analysis techniques that> seem to be present in VRA (I have only read parts), we can identify> and correlate which mantra would be more meaningful to chant for which> person in which situation. So Jyotish and mantra analysis techniques> would not be used for self realization, but only in identification of> the "right" or the "best" self realization mantra/technique.. It is> in this regard that I wanted to know which "graha and bhava > classification" the Mul mantra comes under..> > > respectfully,> > Sundeep> > > > > > > It is best not to find out self realization from Jyotish. The grahas > can> > help in mumukshatvam but not in realization. In Vivekachoodamani, the> > qualities of a sincere seeker are given. If one studies it, it shall > be easy> > to see what combinations may suggest mumukshatvam. Sabda Pramana of > this> > kind should not be related to grahas. Only my opinion > > > > Thanks and Regards> > Bharat> > > > > >>

[Guest guest]

Dear Bharatji,

I wasnt sure if I understood you properly. In fact I still dont think

I do. Especially this

 

" How you relate it to yourself will become the defining cause to

relate to a graha "

 

Please elaborate. The implication here, as I understand it - perhaps

not what you mean, is that the mantra stands by itself and only my own

need will identify a graha for it. So someone else's need might relate

it to a different graha? How do you then reconcile your views with the

seemingly contradictory views on this group - that mantras signify

specific grahas in an absolute sense, not in the relative sense you

seem to have implied..

 

Thanks,

 

Sundeep

[Guest guest]

Namaste Sri SundeepMy thoughts are independent and if the groups thoughts are different, I let them follow it. I do not try to change them. If one chants " Aum " - there is no one graha attributable to it. It is the symbol of the wholeness. Of that wholeness whatever you want and desire, defines the graha to be associated. Similarly, when a Guru gives a root mantra - " Ek Onkar Satnaam " - by virtue of it being from a Guru renders it from the mouth of Lord Shiva. You can relate it to the Jupiter...as it shows the Guru in Jyotish. However, your purpose and desire shall show the graha to be associated. Mantras done for specific grahas to appease them can be related to the grahas, not Sabda Pramanas. Thanks and RegardsBharatOn 7/28/07,

vedicastrostudent <vedicastrostudent wrote:

 

 

 

 

Dear Bharatji,

I wasnt sure if I understood you properly. In fact I still dont think

I do. Especially this

 

" How you relate it to yourself will become the defining cause to

relate to a graha "

 

Please elaborate. The implication here, as I understand it - perhaps

not what you mean, is that the mantra stands by itself and only my own

need will identify a graha for it. So someone else's need might relate

it to a different graha? How do you then reconcile your views with the

seemingly contradictory views on this group - that mantras signify

specific grahas in an absolute sense, not in the relative sense you

seem to have implied..

 

Thanks,

 

Sundeep

[Guest guest]

Dear Sharat,

Thanks for the reply. From yours and Bharatji's reply I have

essentially gotten the answer that I was looking for - I earlier

posted that I wanted a mantra for this Sikh person with Rahu in the

9th who would be somewhat unlikely to, with faith, recite anything

other than a Sikh mantra. He has Sun in the 9th from Jupiter so I

guess this should be good for him.

 

Separately though, you say:

 

>

> I think self realisation will come from Jyotish...for it is the

Light of

> God and not just astrology.

>

 

Could you qualify or elaborate a bit on this? I agree in the sense

that, to take a simple analogy, if you open a homeless shelter to

serve the poor, it will also help you in self realization because

you will learn to serve selflessly and that will help you in

becoming self realized, and that in turn will help you serve even

more selflessly. In the very same sense, Jyotish and self

realization too have the same kind of symbiotic relationship..

Nevertheless many (if not most) students of Jyotish would have the

equally strong desire to predict correctly alongside the desire to

be more self realized, and as more success is achieved, the ego-

happiness coming from the satisfaction of the desire to predict can

snuff out the desire to be self realized. To be truly self realized,

I strongly suspect that it has to always be the prime and eventually

the only desire.. In this sense I mean Jyotish cant lead you to the

final goal - it must eventually melt away as must every other

desire..

 

Thanks

 

Sundeep

[Guest guest]

Namaste Sri SundeepIf you are looking to remove the wrong influences of Rahu for Sikh Person, then, ask him to perform the service of a taking care of chappels and shoes on a Saturday in a Gurudwara. This is one of the very good remedies for overcoming Rahu's ill effects.

Thanks and RegardsBharatOn 7/28/07, vedicastrostudent <vedicastrostudent wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Sharat,

Thanks for the reply. From yours and Bharatji's reply I have

essentially gotten the answer that I was looking for - I earlier

posted that I wanted a mantra for this Sikh person with Rahu in the

9th who would be somewhat unlikely to, with faith, recite anything

other than a Sikh mantra. He has Sun in the 9th from Jupiter so I

guess this should be good for him.

 

Separately though, you say:

 

>

> I think self realisation will come from Jyotish...for it is the

Light of

> God and not just astrology.

>

 

Could you qualify or elaborate a bit on this? I agree in the sense

that, to take a simple analogy, if you open a homeless shelter to

serve the poor, it will also help you in self realization because

you will learn to serve selflessly and that will help you in

becoming self realized, and that in turn will help you serve even

more selflessly. In the very same sense, Jyotish and self

realization too have the same kind of symbiotic relationship..

Nevertheless many (if not most) students of Jyotish would have the

equally strong desire to predict correctly alongside the desire to

be more self realized, and as more success is achieved, the ego-

happiness coming from the satisfaction of the desire to predict can

snuff out the desire to be self realized. To be truly self realized,

I strongly suspect that it has to always be the prime and eventually

the only desire.. In this sense I mean Jyotish cant lead you to the

final goal - it must eventually melt away as must every other

desire..

 

Thanks

 

Sundeep

[Guest guest]

||Namah Shivaya||Dear Sundeep,I always enjoy your Qs as theyre thought provoking! Remember that I am only a student of this vast ocean of knowledge.Please read below:

- vedicastrostudent sohamsa Friday, July 27, 2007 8:37 PM Re: Which planet is the Sikh Mul Mantra for?Dear Sharat,Thanks for the reply. From yours and Bharatji's reply I have essentially gotten the answer that I was looking for - I earlier posted that I wanted a mantra for this Sikh person with Rahu in the 9th who would be somewhat unlikely to, with faith, recite anything other than a Sikh mantra. He has Sun in the 9th from Jupiter so I guess this should be good for him.

 

**I thought you had resolved this sometime ago. Sanjay ji has given the mantras for the same, but perhaps you were looking for a more Sikh based one. As I said Guru vani is Guru mantra so you have interpreted it all correctly.

9th from Jupiter can bring the Guru, however it is mokshakarka Ketu who brings the diksha Guru , this is examined from navamsa.

Separately though, you say:> > I think self realisation will come from Jyotish...for it is the Light of> God and not just astrology.> Could you qualify or elaborate a bit on this? I agree in the sense that, to take a simple analogy, if you open a homeless shelter to serve the poor, it will also help you in self realization because you will learn to serve selflessly and that will help you in becoming self realized, and that in turn will help you serve even more selflessly. In the very same sense, Jyotish and self realization too have the same kind of symbiotic relationship.. Nevertheless many (if not most) students of Jyotish would have the equally strong desire to predict correctly alongside the desire to be more self realized, and as more success is achieved, the ego-happiness coming from the satisfaction of the desire to predict can snuff out the desire to be self realized. To be truly self realized, I strongly suspect that it has to always be the prime and eventually the only desire.. In this sense I mean Jyotish cant lead you to the final goal - it must eventually melt away as must every other desire..

 

**I know where youre coming from when you say this. To give prediction and succeed, is a mere offshoot of Jyotish vedanaga. It is the light you see within yourself, that gives you that knowledge. When and truly that happens, you can predict and help who seek your knowledge. This blessing will be a waste if it goes down the route of ahankar and would not last for long. In seeking this path, one will develop self realisation and rise above rajas guna to the satvic gunas, where there can be bliss without emotions and without desire...for that is the root cause of reincarnation..isnt it.

 

I can say about myself, leading a very gainful and fulflling life , I reached a juncture where I knew I had another path to explore, as if my past karmas led me to it. Overnight so to say, my life changed with knowledge I began to acquire from Jyotish, no one showed me this path, no Gurus, but just a light showed from this ocean of knowlege..I grasped it and havent looked back. Self realisation changed my way of life in many ways, though I still continued to excel professionally but now I look at things in a different perspective. I dont study Jyotish to predict/win or lose but to understand the influences we are undergoing everyday how we can do karmas in this life to help others realise the same path.

I wont get too esoteric but suffice to say, neither myself or anyone who has known me could have predicted these changes.

I dont have any Guru.. but I learn from everyone..from you..from this forum ..from Jyotish gurus here...perhaps I may connect with a 'chosen one' if it is in my destiny.

Just my thoughts to bring out to you that Jyotish can indeed lead to self realisation which is devoid of feelings to succeed. And I can confirm that I never had this desire to begin with!

 

Hope this helps

 

Best wishes

ps: for the forum, please excuse my thoughts if you think they dont make sense

Sharat

[Guest guest]

Dear Bharatji,

Thank you very much for this advice. I will convey it to him..

 

Sundeep

 

 

> Namaste Sri Sundeep

>

> If you are looking to remove the wrong influences of Rahu for Sikh

Person,

> then, ask him to perform the service of a taking care of chappels

and shoes

> on a Saturday in a Gurudwara. This is one of the very good remedies

for

> overcoming Rahu's ill effects.

>

> Thanks and Regards

> Bharat

[Guest guest]

Dear Sharat,

Thank you for your kind words. And thanks too for sharing! I

remember you earlier posted a dream as well, which to me

symbolically implied the same thing that you have just written

(dawning of a new knowledge/perspective etc).. Good to know that

your reasons for pursuing Jyotish are so pure..

 

Regards,

 

Sundeep

sohamsa , " Sharat " <gidoc wrote:

>

> ||Namah Shivaya||

> Dear Sundeep,

> I always enjoy your Qs as theyre thought provoking! Remember that

I am only a student of this vast ocean of knowledge.

> Please read below:

>

> -

> vedicastrostudent

> sohamsa

> Friday, July 27, 2007 8:37 PM

> Re: Which planet is the Sikh Mul Mantra for?

>

>

> Dear Sharat,

> Thanks for the reply. From yours and Bharatji's reply I have

> essentially gotten the answer that I was looking for - I earlier

> posted that I wanted a mantra for this Sikh person with Rahu in

the

> 9th who would be somewhat unlikely to, with faith, recite anything

> other than a Sikh mantra. He has Sun in the 9th from Jupiter so I

> guess this should be good for him.

>

> **I thought you had resolved this sometime ago. Sanjay ji has

given the mantras for the same, but perhaps you were looking for a

more Sikh based one. As I said Guru vani is Guru mantra so you have

interpreted it all correctly.

> 9th from Jupiter can bring the Guru, however it is mokshakarka

Ketu who brings the diksha Guru , this is examined from navamsa.

>

>

> Separately though, you say:

>

> >

> > I think self realisation will come from Jyotish...for it is the

> Light of

> > God and not just astrology.

> >

>

> Could you qualify or elaborate a bit on this? I agree in the sense

> that, to take a simple analogy, if you open a homeless shelter to

> serve the poor, it will also help you in self realization because

> you will learn to serve selflessly and that will help you in

> becoming self realized, and that in turn will help you serve even

> more selflessly. In the very same sense, Jyotish and self

> realization too have the same kind of symbiotic relationship..

> Nevertheless many (if not most) students of Jyotish would have the

> equally strong desire to predict correctly alongside the desire to

> be more self realized, and as more success is achieved, the ego-

> happiness coming from the satisfaction of the desire to predict

can

> snuff out the desire to be self realized. To be truly self

realized,

> I strongly suspect that it has to always be the prime and

eventually

> the only desire.. In this sense I mean Jyotish cant lead you to

the

> final goal - it must eventually melt away as must every other

> desire..

>

>

> **I know where youre coming from when you say this. To give

prediction and succeed, is a mere offshoot of Jyotish vedanaga. It

is the light you see within yourself, that gives you that knowledge.

When and truly that happens, you can predict and help who seek your

knowledge. This blessing will be a waste if it goes down the route

of ahankar and would not last for long. In seeking this path, one

will develop self realisation and rise above rajas guna to the

satvic gunas, where there can be bliss without emotions and without

desire...for that is the root cause of reincarnation..isnt it.

>

> I can say about myself, leading a very gainful and fulflling

life , I reached a juncture where I knew I had another path to

explore, as if my past karmas led me to it. Overnight so to say, my

life changed with knowledge I began to acquire from Jyotish, no one

showed me this path, no Gurus, but just a light showed from this

ocean of knowlege..I grasped it and havent looked back. Self

realisation changed my way of life in many ways, though I still

continued to excel professionally but now I look at things in a

different perspective. I dont study Jyotish to predict/win or lose

but to understand the influences we are undergoing everyday how we

can do karmas in this life to help others realise the same path.

> I wont get too esoteric but suffice to say, neither myself or

anyone who has known me could have predicted these changes.

> I dont have any Guru.. but I learn from everyone..from you..from

this forum ..from Jyotish gurus here...perhaps I may connect with

a 'chosen one' if it is in my destiny.

> Just my thoughts to bring out to you that Jyotish can indeed lead

to self realisation which is devoid of feelings to succeed. And I

can confirm that I never had this desire to begin with!

>

> Hope this helps

>

> Best wishes

> ps: for the forum, please excuse my thoughts if you think they

dont make sense

>

> Sharat

>