Jupiter as AK (to Vistiji and Nitish)

September 5, 2007

Dear Vistiji,

I am eagerly watching the discussion between you and Nitish, but

there are some logical gaps which I would love to see addressed.

Specifically, you initially have clearly indicated and given

scriptural evidence for the fact that the soul has 8 bondages (and

thank you for the information, it was very useful for me).

However, it is an unverified logical leap from there to the

conclusion that the 8 bondages must be sequentially removed and that

each chara AK focusses on one of the bondages. Can you please

substantiate this?

By analogy, when a person gets convicted of a crime and is put in a

jail cell, the four walls of the jail cell are the 4 bondages (in a

sense) of the person. This does not automatically mean that the 4

walls have to be broken down in order to get freedom. The jailkeeper

must open the door and the court that has jurisdiction must

authorize him to do so.

In much the same way, scriptural evidence of 8 bondages does not by

instant inference invalidate Nitish's argument that karma

(jailkeeper, court) is the only true bondage. You must supply

additional scriptural evidence of that weakening of the bondages can

be done individually (e.g. by AK's focus on one). I have read

(though not completely) a translation of Vivekacudamani, and I only

see mention of the the 3 sariras and 5 koshas. Am I missing some

part of it (or some other key scriptures) where it says that people

in various stages of enlightenment have progressively " weaker "

koshas/sareeras/parts-thereof? Everyone seems to have Ahamkar,

whether or not they have Sun AK. No one is ever born without one of

the bondages - they always have all 8.

Hope you see my point. I am not contradicting you, simply trying to

dig deeper into your wisdom..

Thanks,

Sundeep

sohamsa , Visti Larsen <visti wrote:

>

> ??? ??? ??????

>

> Dear Nitish, Namaskar

> Thank you for your reply.

> Surely Surya is not Ahamkara, thats like saying that Rahu is

Durga.

> Using that equation we could say that Aditya, Shiva and Agni are

all

> Surya... Taking a line from your mail we are actually saying that

Vishnu

> being an aditya is Surya? Obviously both of us know better than

that.

>

> See, the devatas reside in svarga loka and this corresponds to the

> nakshatras. The grahas through their transit of the nakshatras are

> actually eclipsing them and thus certain forms of devatas come as

> indicating by 1) the graha eclipsing. 2) the nakshatra it

eclipses.

> Since nakshatras are the basis of the rasi chart, we can find

based on

> the state of a graha the actual devata represented by it. But its

only a

> representation as the Grahas themselves are not devatas.

>

> The graha which 'represents' the bondage of ahamkara is Surya,

just as

> the graha representing the bondage of the mind is Moon. And among

those

> born with Surya as atmakaraka we have grades of those being fully

> engrossed in ahamkara vs. having complete control of ahamkara.

Divine

> souls like Vivekananda, Ramakrishna Paramahamsa and Sri Krishna

being at

> one end of the scale. With fellows like Donald Trump, Adolph

Hitler

> (exalted surya yuti AK) and others at the other end of the scale.

>

> Now, to overcome these eight bondages, there are EIGHT ways to

look at

> God through which we can be freed. For the Ahamkara we must look

at God

> as Paramatman. This is the remedy itself. And the specific form of

Shiva

> who will help us realize this is Ishana for the Sun.

>

> So please don't make the equation that everyone with Surya

atmakaraka is

> Paramatman. That would be quite delusional indeed... Infact the

concept

> of Paramatma is the means to which the Surya atmakaraka will be

freed of

> his/her ahamkara.

> Looking forward to your reply.

>

> Yours sincerely,

>

> --

> Visti Larsen - SJC Guru

> Jaimini SJC - Denmark

> email: visti <visti

> For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit:

http://srigaruda.com

> <http://srigaruda.com>

>

> yeeahoo_99 wrote:

> >

> > || OM TAT SAT||

> > Dear Visti,

> > How do you prove that Ahamkara is represented by Surya ? Either

you

> > mean to say that Lord Krishna represents Ahamkara going by Gita

> > Chapter 10 verse 21:

> >

> > " Of the tweleve adityas I am vishnu, of all luminaries the

radiant

> > Sun , of the seven Maruts I am marichi, and of the

constellations I am

> > the Moon. "

> >

> > Are you saying that Sura/Surya group of planets are lead by

Surya as

> > Ahamkara?

> >

> > Are you saying that the Vedas adoring Surya Narayan as a witness

of

> > all actions (Sakshi) is an individuality creating Ahamkara

Principle

> > and not an impersonal transcendental intelligence principle?

> >

> > Please explain why Surya as Ahamkara should be referred to as

> > Paramatma, the soul of all and `Jagadaikha chakshusay', the eye

of the

> > three worlds?

> >

> > regards,

> > nitish

> >

> > sohamsa <sohamsa%

40>,

> > Visti Larsen <visti@> wrote:

> > >

> > > ??? ??? ??????

> > >

> > > Dear List, Namaskar

> > > Why hasn't anyone started talking about the eight bondages of

the atma?

> > > Ahamkara (surya), Manas (chandra), Prakriti (rahu), Akasha

(guru), Agni

> > > (mangala), Jala (shukra), Vayu (shani) and Prithvi (budha).

> > >

> > > And how these eight bondages map into the eight spokes of the

kala

> > > chakra, which are simultaneously the eight spokes of the

anahata chakra.

> > >

> > > Really any talk on the atma and its EIGHT karakas is futile

without any

> > > of this.

> > >

> > > Yours sincerely,

> > >

> > > --

> > > Visti Larsen - SJC Guru

> > > Jaimini SJC - Denmark

> > > email: visti@ <visti@>

> > > For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit:

> > http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>

> > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>

> > >

> > > Promila Chitkara wrote:

> > > > Hello Sharat,

> > > >

> > > > Do you not think that " serving others " comes naturally only

to a

> > > > handful people? There maybe people who want to serve their

families;

> > > > however, that is not selfless service in the true sense of

the term.

> > > > Because we know very well that in happiness and contentment

of our

> > > > families lies our happiness and growth! So it's purely

selfish.

> > > >

> > > > P

> > > >

> > > > Sharat <gidoc@>

> > > > sohamsa <sohamsa%

40>

> > > > Thursday, August 30, 2007 2:23:04 AM

> > > > Re: Re: Jupiter as AK (to Tijanaji,

Nitish and

> > > > v_reality)

> > > >

> > > > ||Namah Shivaya||

> > > > Dear Sundeep,

> > > > Good observations, I was following this thread as well but

really

> > > > found the ' ego ' bit coming in too quickly.

> > > > English words cant describe so well ' ahankar ' and ' aham'

which are

> > > > different and I agree that one cannot see this only in Sun

AK.

> > However

> > > > as you say, Sun AK needs to learn to serve others as it does

not come

> > > > naturally to them. And you cant take ' I ' away from them so

easily

> > > > but perhaps if one wants to merge with Paramatma, then the '

I '

> > will

> > > > have to merge in to ' Him '.

> > > >

> > > > Best

> > > > Sharat

> > > >

> > > > -

> > > > ** vedicastrostudent <vedicastrostudent@>

> > > > *To:* sohamsa@ .com

<sohamsa

> > <sohamsa%40>>

> > > > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 29, 2007 8:56 PM

> > > > *Subject:* Re: Jupiter as AK (to Tijanaji, Nitish

and

> > > > v_reality)

> > > >

> > > > Dear Tijanaji and Nitish,

> > > >

> > > > I have been reading your exchange with interest in the hope

of

> > > > learning something new, but I find myself disagreeing subtly

> > in the

> > > > essence of what you say. In fact, deep down in the exchange

I find

> > > > this statement made by " v_reality " which makes a lot of sense

> > to me:

> > > > " Can this also be understood at a different level as the

> > effacement

> > > > of 'self' in a spiritual sense? " .

> > > >

> > > > Here is my take - I have none of the scriptural knowledge

you both

> > > > have, only I have seen several Sun AK people: I dont think

it is

> > > > fair to say that Sun AK people are egotistic. See, English

> > also has

> > > > a lot of words which have subtly different meanings, and the

right

> > > > one has to be used. An egotistic person is one who has a

> > exaggerated

> > > > sense of self-importance. Almost everyone in this world has

that

> > > > (and you are fooling yourself if you deny it), it is plain

> > wrong to

> > > > observe a person have Sun AK and simultaneously observe that

> > he also

> > > > has an exaggerated sense of self importance and say " yes,

that is

> > > > what the Sun AK does to him " . I can cite hundreds of people

I know

> > > > who are very self important and DONT have Sun AK, and not

only

> > that

> > > > may not even have a strong Sun in their chart.

> > > >

> > > > I personally think the only statement that can be observed

> > > > repeatedly with Sun AK people is that they are egocentric

i.e.

> > their

> > > > view of the world is based on the individual rather than the

> > > > society. They may or may not be egotistical (i.e.

> > egocentricity does

> > > > not imply self importance) - the AK simply makes them go

through

> > > > experiences in life such that their core self is tested. How

they

> > > > respond to it depends probably on lots of other astrological

> > > > factors. The only statement I can safely make, based on pure

> > > > experience, is that Sun AK people are guided to divinity

through

> > > > experiences of the self, consequently their view is

egocentric.

> > > >

> > > > I know one Sun AK woman (dont know if I can share her data)

> > who was

> > > > molested (by her own professor) and denied a higher degree

> > that she

> > > > worked hard for, then get married and then divorced, then

have her

> > > > mom die of cancer in a rather painful way, then have her

> > brother get

> > > > divorced in a messy lawsuit (and then leave her too), then

> > (she) get

> > > > married again and her husband develop terminal cancer very

soon

> > > > afterward. Net result: she cant seem to find a strong and

> > consistent

> > > > support outside of herself - she has become self reliant and

only

> > > > finds consistent happiness in meditation/reiki. She is

probably

> > > > egotistical in some degree too, but not in any outstanding

way at

> > > > all, and probably much less than all the people around her..

> > > >

> > > > Consequently, I really dispute the fact that Sun AK people

must

> > > > learn to " reduce their ego " . That is simply a general lesson

> > for all

> > > > of mankind. Sun AK people's AK will guide them towards

divinity

> > > > through experiences that make them focus on themselves and

search

> > > > for the truth: now that's the statement I find much more to

the

> > > > point.

> > > >

> > > > Comments?

> > > >

> > > > Thanks,

> > > >

> > > > Sundeep

> > > >

> > > > sohamsa@ .com

> > > > <sohamsa%40>, nix nixen <nix_nixen@ ..>

> > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > Dear Nitish,

> > > > > Only from one simple statement of yours " It is not always

> > > > possible for me... " i read that your AK must be nothing less

than

> > > > Sun. Am i right? If yes, then i think i`m on the right way of

> > > > finding answers on my queries.

> > > > > Warm regards,

> > > > > Tijana

> > > > >

> > > > > yeeahoo_99 <nitish.arya@ ...> wrote:

> > > > > Dear Tijana,

> > > > > Raja Yoga is the yoga of soul with paramatma -

deep/shallow,

> > > > > material/spiritual - all kind of things have a basis only

in

> > > > > paramatma. Thus, even Raja-bhanga yoga has a basis i.e.

> > separation

> > > > of

> > > > > soul from paramatma (which is illusory only though) and

hence

> > > > > material/spiritual loss depending on the kind of karma

involved.

> > > > >

> > > > > As the lord of a sign, a planet rules a 12th part of the

> > > > > consciousness, relatively . Thus, in part, it becomes its

> > > > > responsibility to guide the affairs of that sign/house

towards

> > > > > fulfillment. You may explore it further.

> > > > >

> > > > > It is not always possible for me to answer to your specific

> > > > queries.

> > > > > Hopefully, in time, you will discover the truth of your

queries.

> > > > >

> > > > > best regards,

> > > > > nitish

> > > > >

> > > > > sohamsa@ .com

> > > > <sohamsa%40>, " tijanadamjanovic "

> > <nix_nixen@>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > Dear Nitish,

> > > > > > Yes, all must serve. The questions raised in these

discussions

> > > > on Atma

> > > > > > karakas were on the specific way of serving.

> > > > > > If we say that Sun AK must learn principles of artha

> > shastra to

> > > > serve,

> > > > > > the same stands for Ma and Ju AK? How to differentiate? I

> > assume

> > > > you

> > > > > > are taking karakatvas of the houses into account also

> > (2nd, 6th,

> > > > 10th)?

> > > > > > The Sun/Raja gets service on the throne, but regarding

> > > > spirituality

> > > > > > and Atma this is related to real Raja yoga whose deepest

> > meaning

> > > > is

> > > > > > inseparable from 10th house of indriyas (refer

Vivekananda) .

> > > > Only in

> > > > > > that sense we can talk of Janaka or the perfect King.

What

> > artha

> > > > > > shastra principles you had in mind?

> > > > > > Warm regards,

> > > > > > Tijana

> > > > > >

> > > > > > sohamsa@ .com

> > > > <sohamsa%40>, " yeeahoo_99 "

<nitish.arya@ >

> > > > wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > || Om TAT SAT ||

> > > > > > > Dear Tijana,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > To fulfill ones own dharma is what you probably had

in

> > mind

> > > > > > > > mentioning Gita in this context.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Context that was intended is Gita Chapter 3,sloka 22.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > All must work if the lord of the cosmos has chosen to

work.

> > > > Thus,

> > > > > > > there is nothing specific that only SUN AK has to

> > " serve " , all

> > > > AKs

> > > > > > > " serve " .

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > But, are you implying that Sun AK gives a person

akin to

> > > > Janaka?!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Yes, Sun AK gives a person akin to Janaka -

jivanmukta -

> > > > provided

> > > > > > > enough effort has been put in.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Are you determing dharma based on this?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > No, Sun AK need not be 9th lord.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Will you advise Sun AK people to take Dhartharastra

as an

> > > > example!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Yes.

> > > > > > > The attitude of service is seen from 6th house. Leo

being a

> > > > dharma

> > > > > > > trikona sign fulfills its purpose of service through

10th

> > > > house of

> > > > > > > Artha, which is 6th from it. So a Sun AK should learn

> > > > principles of

> > > > > > > artha shastra to serve.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > So, again, what Raja will hardly ever do is serving.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > All souls have to " Serve " only as there is nothing else

> > to be

> > > > done

> > > > > > > in the three worlds because Krishna has already

achieved

> > > > everything

> > > > > > > that is there to achieve in the three worlds(refer

Gita).

> > > > Those who

> > > > > > > do not serve, are reborn to learn to serve, whatever be

> > their

> > > > AK.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda` s Dharm bhava lord was Sun AK in

> > lagna in

> > > > Dhanus

> > > > > > > > (extraordinary combination for unselfish giving by

> > itself).

> > > > > > > > But do you think it`s a coincidence that His Master

had

> > > > exalted

> > > > > > > Saturn in 9th

> > > > > > > > bhava and Rahu AK? What do you think, why even Swami

> > needed

> > > > these?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > One is not re-born after exhausting his karma/desires.

Thus,

> > > > > > > vivekananda (Rahu PiK) came here to exhaust his

remaining

> > > > karma/

> > > > > > > desires with Ramakrishna (Rahu AK). There is no more

> > substance

> > > > to

> > > > > > > this than a past-life karmic relationship of the two

which

> > > > continued

> > > > > > > in this birth also.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > > NITISH

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com

> > > > <sohamsa%40>, " tijana " <nix_nixen@>

wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > Dear Nitish,

> > > > > > > > Your elaboration would be even more brilliant if you

had

> > > > just answer

> > > > > > > > my question.

> > > > > > > > To fulfill ones own dharma is what you probably had

in

> > mind

> > > > > > > mentioning

> > > > > > > > Gita in this context. But, are you implying that Sun

AK

> > > > gives a

> > > > > > > > person akin to Janaka?! Are you determing dharma

based on

> > > > this? Will

> > > > > > > > you advise Sun AK people to take Dhartharastra as an

> > > > example!

> > > > > > > > So, again, what Raja will hardly ever do is serving.

> > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda` s Dharm bhava lord was Sun AK in

> > lagna in

> > > > Dhanus

> > > > > > > > (extraordinary combination for unselfish giving by

> > itself).

> > > > But do

> > > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > think it`s a coincidence that His Master had exalted

> > Saturn

> > > > in 9th

> > > > > > > > bhava and Rahu AK? What do you think, why even Swami

> > needed

> > > > these?

> > > > > > > > Warm regards,

> > > > > > > > Tijana

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com

> > > > <sohamsa%40>, " yeeahoo_99 "

<nitish.arya@ >

> > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > || Om Tat Sat ||

> > > > > > > > > Dear Tijana,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > What is the thing that Raja will hardly ever do?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Read up Gita, arthashastra and ancient texts that

show

> > > > what

> > > > > > > all a

> > > > > > > > > Raja has to do to ensure that his subjects are

protected

> > > > and

> > > > > > > progress

> > > > > > > > > on the upward evolutionary path. Look at krishna,

Janaka

> > > > and

> > > > > > > > > ChandraGupta Maurya and you will understand

whatever

> > > > that " hardly

> > > > > > > > > ever do " equates to.

> > > > > > > > > Otherwise, going by your statement, AK wouldn't do

> > > > anything

> > > > > > > being

> > > > > > > > > the king of the horoscope and the rest of the

> > karakas (BK,

> > > > PiK,

> > > > > > > Puk,

> > > > > > > > > GK) i.e. his subjects will follow the suit!

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Actually, the mantra is " Shiva jnane Jiva Seva "

(serving

> > > > every

> > > > > > > > > being as the full manifestation of God) that

> > Narendranath

> > > > > > > received

> > > > > > > > > from his Master Ramakrishna who had Sun in

Aquarius.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Being Sun AK, Vivekananda had developed peculiar

> > sharpness

> > > > of

> > > > > > > > > perception and assimilation that empowered him with

> > > > unusual power

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > pick up 'the gems' from the talks of his Master.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > With Sun in Sagittarius, he could, as compared to

> > others,

> > > > > > > easily

> > > > > > > > > 'see' the deep meaning in the words of Sri

Ramakrishna,

> > > > even

> > > > > > > though

> > > > > > > > > the Master told them in simple language (Aq Sun),

and

> > > > never as

> > > > > > > > > preaching.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > With its dispositor Jupiter in Libra, gradually

Swami

> > > > > > > Vivekananda

> > > > > > > > > started assimilating tips and hints on practical

Vedanta

> > > > that

> > > > > > > could

> > > > > > > > > benefit individual and collective life in the

society.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > " ...For spiritual persons Sun as AK should be in

> > > > Jupiter`s

> > > > > > > signs

> > > > > > > > > > (Shiva jnane...), otherwise it`s very hard

task... "

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Putting up statements like you have done is not

> > wise. Sri

> > > > > > > Yukteswar

> > > > > > > > > Giri, has Sun AK placed in Aries and had attained

> > highest

> > > > level

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > spirituality. Even if Sun AK is placed in Libra, it

> > could

> > > > be the

> > > > > > > most

> > > > > > > > > spiritual person.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > AK shows the spiritual power of a sign over the

rest of

> > > > the

> > > > > > > signs/

> > > > > > > > > planets in the chart and this spiritual power

manifests

> > > > through

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > dispositor of AK and its sign placement.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > > > > NITISH

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com

> > > > <sohamsa%40>, " tijana " <nix_nixen@>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > > > Dear Su,

> > > > > > > > > > Sun is the Self. Its qualities are those of Raja

> > (karaka

> > > > for

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > first house, lord of the 5th, dig bala in 10th).

> > What is

> > > > the

> > > > > > > thing

> > > > > > > > > > that Raja will hardly ever do? The lesson that

has

> > to be

> > > > learnt

> > > > > > > by

> > > > > > > > > > Sun AK is serving, in the highest sence it gives

> > " Shiva

> > > > jnane

> > > > > > > Shiva

> > > > > > > > > > seva " (service of man as God)-the divine lesson

> > given to

> > > > us by

> > > > > > > > > Swami

> > > > > > > > > > Vivekananda (Sun AK). For spiritual persons Sun

as AK

> > > > should be

> > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > Jupiter`s signs (Shiva jnane...), otherwise it`s

very

> > > > hard task.

> > > > > > > > > > Warm regards,

> > > > > > > > > > Tijana

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com

> > > > <sohamsa%40>, " v reality " <reality_v@>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Dear Bojan-ji

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for your reply. Much appreciated.

> > > > > > > > > > > If I may ask another query re Sun AK. The

lesson

> > to be

> > > > > > > learnt

> > > > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > > Sun AK,

> > > > > > > > > > > is the reduction of ego. Can this also be

understood

> > > > at a

> > > > > > > > > > different level

> > > > > > > > > > > as the effacement of 'self' in a spiritual

sense?

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > thanks

> > > > > > > > > > > Su

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >Bojan Vidakovic <janbovid@>

> > > > > > > > > > > >sohamsa@ .com

> > > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > >sohamsa@ .com

> > > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > >Re: Jupiter as AK

> > > > > > > > > > > >Wed, 22 Aug 2007 08:33:22 -0700 (PDT)

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >HARE RAMA KRISHNA

> > > > > > > > > > > >Dear Su

> > > > > > > > > > > >I would add that with Gu AK person have to be

very

> > > > humble to

> > > > > > > all

> > > > > > > > > > spiritual

> > > > > > > > > > > >techers and natives, like priests, gurus,

teachers.

> > > > With Ma

> > > > > > > AK

> > > > > > > > > > person must

> > > > > > > > > > > >practise Ahumsa (nonviolence) , with Ch the

> > native is

> > > > always

> > > > > > > very

> > > > > > > > > > caring,

> > > > > > > > > > > >and gives emotions but the problem is that

they

> > never

> > > > get

> > > > > > > enough

> > > > > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > > > >themselves from other people. The person must

learn

> > > > lessons

> > > > > > > also

> > > > > > > > > > from the

> > > > > > > > > > > >people represented with AK. Ch / mother, Sy /

> > father

> > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > everything those

> > > > > > > > > > > >grahas represent.

> > > > > > > > > > > >Take few examples of people you know and see

it in

> > > > praxix.

> > > > > > > Best

> > > > > > > > > > wishes,

> > > > > > > > > > > >Bojan

> > > > > > > > > > > >Hari Om Tat Sat

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@ > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > hraum namah adityaya

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Su,

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Person should use a lot of glass and sing/hum

> > > > melodies.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > Rafal Gendarz

> > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> > > > > > > > > > > > email: rafal@

> > > > > > > > > > > > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > v reality napisaÅ,(a): Dear Rafalji/Members

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > This is an interesting discussion. Could we

> > discuss

> > > > other

> > > > > > > AKs

> > > > > > > > > > too. I read

> > > > > > > > > > > > in an article that natives with Moon as AK

need to

> > > > learn

> > > > > > > to be

> > > > > > > > > > more

> > > > > > > > > > > >caring

> > > > > > > > > > > > and loving to others. But I know of a chart

where

> > > > the

> > > > > > > native

> > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > already

> > > > > > > > > > > >by

> > > > > > > > > > > > nature very caring, loving and concerned

about

> > > > others

> > > > > > > since

> > > > > > > > > > young. So

> > > > > > > > > > > >what

> > > > > > > > > > > > is the lesson to be learnt?

> > > > > > > > > > > > thanks

> > > > > > > > > > > > Su

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@ wp.pl>

> > > > > > > > > > > > >sohamsa@ .com

> > > > > > > > > > > > >Re: Jupiter as AK

> > > > > > > > > > > > >Wed, 22 Aug 2007 10:24:14 +0200

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > *hraum namah adityaya*

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >Dear LN Kumar,

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >With Ju AK person should learn to respect

others

> > > > > > > knowledge

> > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > >tradition,

> > > > > > > > > > > > >should be ready to learn from others. When

Ju

> > is in

> > > > > > > kendra to

> > > > > > > > > > AK or is

> > > > > > > > > > > >AK

> > > > > > > > > > > > >himself then native thinks that he knows

> > everything

> > > > and

> > > > > > > now

> > > > > > > > > He

> > > > > > > > > > can share

> > > > > > > > > > > > >His knowledge with everybody. Good teachers

of

> > > > course

> > > > > > > comes

> > > > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > > > >AK-Jupiter- Natives, as this graha will be

> > > > naturally in

> > > > > > > > > > Karakamsa.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >With MA AK person should learn to catalyze

> > energies

> > > > > > > through

> > > > > > > > > > ZEN, TAI-CHI

> > > > > > > > > > > >or

> > > > > > > > > > > > >other techniques, while with JU AK person

should

> > > > learn to

> > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > more humble

> > > > > > > > > > > > >regarding knowledge. Of course person can be

> > > > focused on

> > > > > > > > > Jupiter-

> > > > > > > > > > karakas

> > > > > > > > > > > > >like kids, spirituality, law, luck etc.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >Mahadasa of AK brings lesson to us so its

not so

> > > > easy

> > > > > > > > > > materially but

> > > > > > > > > > > > >inspiring spiritually, so if Surya is in

good

> > > > placement

> > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > AK

> > > > > > > > > > then it

> > > > > > > > > > > >can

> > > > > > > > > > > > >be not so bad as person is spiritual.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > >Rafal Gendarz

> > > > > > > > > > > > >Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> > > > > > > > > > > > >email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com

> > > > > > > > > > > > >Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >narender kumar napisa?(a):

> > > > > > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > > > > > >>Dear Gurujans,

> > > > > > > > > > > > >>Kindly throw some light on Jupiter as

> > > > > > > > > > > > >>Atmakaraka and having Jupiter as mahadasha.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > > > > > >>Respectful Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > >>LN Kumar

> > > > > > > > > > > > >>

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> > > > > > > > > > > > for articles and consultations visit

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<http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./dir/_ylc=

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link=list & sid=396545469>>from

> >

> > > > someone who knows.

> > > > Answers - Check it out.

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

September 6, 2007

hare rama krsna

Dear Sundeep, Namaskar

There are many divisions like this, koshas (anna,prana,jnana (mana),

vijnana, ananda), gunas, tattvas, linga sarira, sookshma sarira,

chakrams, pranas, nadis etc. Now we must see what is relevant in which

situation. All this discussion arised on axis seeing 7H from Su or AK.

What is the difference between Su and Ak in chart? Getting out of

bondage can be done on many ways, by yoga, bhakti, jnana etc. Even in

Upanishads there are few examples when person get mukti through

Mercy/Bhakti.

So what means this breaking walls of our bandhana? How to break buddhi

? And why?

Buddhi is source of viveka, and when this viveka is connected to

transcedental topics then this is good buddhi which will help and this

engagement in spirtiual pursuits will liberate one from tri-guna. So

yoga, bhakti and jnana will do this automatically on all levels (if

done correctly).

Regards,

Rafal Gendarz

email: rafal

Articles & Consultations: http://rohinaa.com

Dear Vistiji,

I am eagerly watching the discussion between you and Nitish, but

there are some logical gaps which I would love to see addressed.

Specifically, you initially have clearly indicated and given

scriptural evidence for the fact that the soul has 8 bondages (and

thank you for the information, it was very useful for me).

However, it is an unverified logical leap from there to the

conclusion that the 8 bondages must be sequentially removed and that

each chara AK focusses on one of the bondages. Can you please

substantiate this?

By analogy, when a person gets convicted of a crime and is put in a

jail cell, the four walls of the jail cell are the 4 bondages (in a

sense) of the person. This does not automatically mean that the 4

walls have to be broken down in order to get freedom. The jailkeeper

must open the door and the court that has jurisdiction must

authorize him to do so.

In much the same way, scriptural evidence of 8 bondages does not by

instant inference invalidate Nitish's argument that karma

(jailkeeper, court) is the only true bondage. You must supply

additional scriptural evidence of that weakening of the bondages can

be done individually (e.g. by AK's focus on one). I have read

(though not completely) a translation of Vivekacudamani, and I only

see mention of the the 3 sariras and 5 koshas. Am I missing some

part of it (or some other key scriptures) where it says that people

in various stages of enlightenment have progressively "weaker"

koshas/sareeras/parts-thereof? Everyone seems to have Ahamkar,

whether or not they have Sun AK. No one is ever born without one of

the bondages - they always have all 8.

Hope you see my point. I am not contradicting you, simply trying to

dig deeper into your wisdom..

Thanks,

Sundeep

sohamsa ,

Visti Larsen <visti wrote:

>

> ??? ??? ??????

>

> Dear Nitish, Namaskar

> Thank you for your reply.

> Surely Surya is not Ahamkara, thats like saying that Rahu is

Durga.

> Using that equation we could say that Aditya, Shiva and Agni are

all

> Surya... Taking a line from your mail we are actually saying that

Vishnu

> being an aditya is Surya? Obviously both of us know better than

that.

>

> See, the devatas reside in svarga loka and this corresponds to the

> nakshatras. The grahas through their transit of the nakshatras are

> actually eclipsing them and thus certain forms of devatas come as

> indicating by 1) the graha eclipsing. 2) the nakshatra it

eclipses.

> Since nakshatras are the basis of the rasi chart, we can find

based on

> the state of a graha the actual devata represented by it. But its

only a

> representation as the Grahas themselves are not devatas.

>

> The graha which 'represents' the bondage of ahamkara is Surya,

just as

> the graha representing the bondage of the mind is Moon. And among

those

> born with Surya as atmakaraka we have grades of those being fully

> engrossed in ahamkara vs. having complete control of ahamkara.

Divine

> souls like Vivekananda, Ramakrishna Paramahamsa and Sri Krishna

being at

> one end of the scale. With fellows like Donald Trump, Adolph

Hitler

> (exalted surya yuti AK) and others at the other end of the scale.

>

> Now, to overcome these eight bondages, there are EIGHT ways to

look at

> God through which we can be freed. For the Ahamkara we must look

at God

> as Paramatman. This is the remedy itself. And the specific form of

Shiva

> who will help us realize this is Ishana for the Sun.

>

> So please don't make the equation that everyone with Surya

atmakaraka is

> Paramatman. That would be quite delusional indeed... Infact the

concept

> of Paramatma is the means to which the Surya atmakaraka will be

freed of

> his/her ahamkara.

> Looking forward to your reply.

>

> Yours sincerely,

>

> --

> Visti Larsen - SJC Guru

> Jaimini SJC - Denmark

> email: visti <visti

> For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit:

http://srigaruda.com

> <http://srigaruda.com>

>

> yeeahoo_99 wrote:

> >

> > || OM TAT SAT||

> > Dear Visti,

> > How do you prove that Ahamkara is represented by Surya ?

Either

you

> > mean to say that Lord Krishna represents Ahamkara going by

Gita

> > Chapter 10 verse 21:

> >

> > "Of the tweleve adityas I am vishnu, of all luminaries the

radiant

> > Sun , of the seven Maruts I am marichi, and of the

constellations I am

> > the Moon."

> >

> > Are you saying that Sura/Surya group of planets are lead by

Surya as

> > Ahamkara?

> >

> > Are you saying that the Vedas adoring Surya Narayan as a

witness

of

> > all actions (Sakshi) is an individuality creating Ahamkara

Principle

> > and not an impersonal transcendental intelligence principle?

> >

> > Please explain why Surya as Ahamkara should be referred to as

> > Paramatma, the soul of all and `Jagadaikha chakshusay', the

eye

of the

> > three worlds?

> >

> > regards,

> > nitish

> >

> > sohamsa

<sohamsa%

40>,

> > Visti Larsen <visti@> wrote:

> > >

> > > ??? ??? ??????

> > >

> > > Dear List, Namaskar

> > > Why hasn't anyone started talking about the eight

bondages of

the atma?

> > > Ahamkara (surya), Manas (chandra), Prakriti (rahu),

Akasha

(guru), Agni

> > > (mangala), Jala (shukra), Vayu (shani) and Prithvi

(budha).

> > >

> > > And how these eight bondages map into the eight spokes

of the

kala

> > > chakra, which are simultaneously the eight spokes of the

anahata chakra.

> > >

> > > Really any talk on the atma and its EIGHT karakas is

futile

without any

> > > of this.

> > >

> > > Yours sincerely,

> > >

> > > --

> > > Visti Larsen - SJC Guru

> > > Jaimini SJC - Denmark

> > > email: visti@ <visti@>

> > > For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit:

> > http://srigaruda.com

<http://srigaruda.com>

> > > <http://srigaruda.com

<http://srigaruda.com>>

> > >

> > > Promila Chitkara wrote:

> > > > Hello Sharat,

> > > >

> > > > Do you not think that "serving others" comes

naturally only

to a

> > > > handful people? There maybe people who want to

serve their

families;

> > > > however, that is not selfless service in the true

sense of

the term.

> > > > Because we know very well that in happiness and

contentment

of our

> > > > families lies our happiness and growth! So it's

purely

selfish.

> > > >

> > > > P

> > > >

> > > > Sharat <gidoc@>

> > > > sohamsa

<sohamsa%

40>

> > > > Thursday, August 30, 2007 2:23:04 AM

> > > > Re: Re: Jupiter as AK (to

Tijanaji,

Nitish and

> > > > v_reality)

> > > >

> > > > ||Namah Shivaya||

> > > > Dear Sundeep,

> > > > Good observations, I was following this thread as

well but

really

> > > > found the ' ego ' bit coming in too quickly.

> > > > English words cant describe so well ' ahankar ' and

' aham'

which are

> > > > different and I agree that one cannot see this only

in Sun

AK.

> > However

> > > > as you say, Sun AK needs to learn to serve others

as it does

not come

> > > > naturally to them. And you cant take ' I ' away

from them so

easily

> > > > but perhaps if one wants to merge with Paramatma,

then the '

I '

> > will

> > > > have to merge in to ' Him '.

> > > >

> > > > Best

> > > > Sharat

> > > >

> > > > -

> > > > ** vedicastrostudent <vedicastrostudent@>

> > > > *To:* sohamsa@ .com

<sohamsa

> > <sohamsa%40>>

> > > > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 29, 2007 8:56 PM

> > > > *Subject:* Re: Jupiter as AK (to

Tijanaji, Nitish

and

> > > > v_reality)

> > > >

> > > > Dear Tijanaji and Nitish,

> > > >

> > > > I have been reading your exchange with interest in

the hope

of

> > > > learning something new, but I find myself

disagreeing subtly

> > in the

> > > > essence of what you say. In fact, deep down in the

exchange

I find

> > > > this statement made by "v_reality" which makes a

lot of sense

> > to me:

> > > > "Can this also be understood at a different level

as the

> > effacement

> > > > of 'self' in a spiritual sense?".

> > > >

> > > > Here is my take - I have none of the scriptural

knowledge

you both

> > > > have, only I have seen several Sun AK people: I

dont think

it is

> > > > fair to say that Sun AK people are egotistic. See,

English

> > also has

> > > > a lot of words which have subtly different

meanings, and the

right

> > > > one has to be used. An egotistic person is one who

has a

> > exaggerated

> > > > sense of self-importance. Almost everyone in this

world has

that

> > > > (and you are fooling yourself if you deny it), it

is plain

> > wrong to

> > > > observe a person have Sun AK and simultaneously

observe that

> > he also

> > > > has an exaggerated sense of self importance and say

"yes,

that is

> > > > what the Sun AK does to him". I can cite hundreds

of people

I know

> > > > who are very self important and DONT have Sun AK,

and not

only

> > that

> > > > may not even have a strong Sun in their chart.

> > > >

> > > > I personally think the only statement that can be

observed

> > > > repeatedly with Sun AK people is that they are

egocentric

i.e.

> > their

> > > > view of the world is based on the individual rather

than the

> > > > society. They may or may not be egotistical (i.e.

> > egocentricity does

> > > > not imply self importance) - the AK simply makes

them go

through

> > > > experiences in life such that their core self is

tested. How

they

> > > > respond to it depends probably on lots of other

astrological

> > > > factors. The only statement I can safely make,

based on pure

> > > > experience, is that Sun AK people are guided to

divinity

through

> > > > experiences of the self, consequently their view is

egocentric.

> > > >

> > > > I know one Sun AK woman (dont know if I can share

her data)

> > who was

> > > > molested (by her own professor) and denied a higher

degree

> > that she

> > > > worked hard for, then get married and then

divorced, then

have her

> > > > mom die of cancer in a rather painful way, then

have her

> > brother get

> > > > divorced in a messy lawsuit (and then leave her

too), then

> > (she) get

> > > > married again and her husband develop terminal

cancer very

soon

> > > > afterward. Net result: she cant seem to find a

strong and

> > consistent

> > > > support outside of herself - she has become self

reliant and

only

> > > > finds consistent happiness in meditation/reiki. She

is

probably

> > > > egotistical in some degree too, but not in any

outstanding

way at

> > > > all, and probably much less than all the people

around her..

> > > >

> > > > Consequently, I really dispute the fact that Sun AK

people

must

> > > > learn to "reduce their ego". That is simply a

general lesson

> > for all

> > > > of mankind. Sun AK people's AK will guide them

towards

divinity

> > > > through experiences that make them focus on

themselves and

search

> > > > for the truth: now that's the statement I find much

more to

the

> > > > point.

> > > >

> > > > Comments?

> > > >

> > > > Thanks,

> > > >

> > > > Sundeep

> > > >

> > > > sohamsa@ .com

> > > > <sohamsa%40>,

nix nixen <nix_nixen@ ..>

> > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > Dear Nitish,

> > > > > Only from one simple statement of yours "It is

not always

> > > > possible for me..." i read that your AK must be

nothing less

than

> > > > Sun. Am i right? If yes, then i think i`m on the

right way of

> > > > finding answers on my queries.

> > > > > Warm regards,

> > > > > Tijana

> > > > >

> > > > > yeeahoo_99 <nitish.arya@ ...> wrote:

> > > > > Dear Tijana,

> > > > > Raja Yoga is the yoga of soul with paramatma -

deep/shallow,

> > > > > material/spiritual - all kind of things have a

basis only

in

> > > > > paramatma. Thus, even Raja-bhanga yoga has a

basis i.e.

> > separation

> > > > of

> > > > > soul from paramatma (which is illusory only

though) and

hence

> > > > > material/spiritual loss depending on the kind

of karma

involved.

> > > > >

> > > > > As the lord of a sign, a planet rules a 12th

part of the

> > > > > consciousness, relatively . Thus, in part,

it becomes its

> > > > > responsibility to guide the affairs of that

sign/house

towards

> > > > > fulfillment. You may explore it further.

> > > > >

> > > > > It is not always possible for me to answer to

your specific

> > > > queries.

> > > > > Hopefully, in time, you will discover the

truth of your

queries.

> > > > >

> > > > > best regards,

> > > > > nitish

> > > > >

> > > > > sohamsa@ .com

> > > > <sohamsa%40>,

"tijanadamjanovic"

> > <nix_nixen@>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > Dear Nitish,

> > > > > > Yes, all must serve. The questions raised

in these

discussions

> > > > on Atma

> > > > > > karakas were on the specific way of

serving.

> > > > > > If we say that Sun AK must learn

principles of artha

> > shastra to

> > > > serve,

> > > > > > the same stands for Ma and Ju AK? How to

differentiate? I

> > assume

> > > > you

> > > > > > are taking karakatvas of the houses into

account also

> > (2nd, 6th,

> > > > 10th)?

> > > > > > The Sun/Raja gets service on the throne,

but regarding

> > > > spirituality

> > > > > > and Atma this is related to real Raja

yoga whose deepest

> > meaning

> > > > is

> > > > > > inseparable from 10th house of indriyas

(refer

Vivekananda) .

> > > > Only in

> > > > > > that sense we can talk of Janaka or the

perfect King.

What

> > artha

> > > > > > shastra principles you had in mind?

> > > > > > Warm regards,

> > > > > > Tijana

> > > > > >

> > > > > > sohamsa@ .com

> > > > <sohamsa%40>,

"yeeahoo_99"

<nitish.arya@ >

> > > > wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > || Om TAT SAT ||

> > > > > > > Dear Tijana,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > To fulfill ones own dharma is

what you probably had

in

> > mind

> > > > > > > > mentioning Gita in this context.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Context that was intended is Gita

Chapter 3,sloka 22.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > All must work if the lord of the

cosmos has chosen to

work.

> > > > Thus,

> > > > > > > there is nothing specific that only

SUN AK has to

> > "serve", all

> > > > AKs

> > > > > > > "serve".

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > But, are you implying that Sun

AK gives a person

akin to

> > > > Janaka?!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Yes, Sun AK gives a person akin to

Janaka -

jivanmukta -

> > > > provided

> > > > > > > enough effort has been put in.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Are you determing dharma based

on this?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > No, Sun AK need not be 9th lord.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Will you advise Sun AK people

to take Dhartharastra

as an

> > > > example!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Yes.

> > > > > > > The attitude of service is seen from

6th house. Leo

being a

> > > > dharma

> > > > > > > trikona sign fulfills its purpose of

service through

10th

> > > > house of

> > > > > > > Artha, which is 6th from it. So a

Sun AK should learn

> > > > principles of

> > > > > > > artha shastra to serve.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > So, again, what Raja will

hardly ever do is serving.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > All souls have to "Serve" only as

there is nothing else

> > to be

> > > > done

> > > > > > > in the three worlds because Krishna

has already

achieved

> > > > everything

> > > > > > > that is there to achieve in the

three worlds(refer

Gita).

> > > > Those who

> > > > > > > do not serve, are reborn to learn to

serve, whatever be

> > their

> > > > AK.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda` s Dharm

bhava lord was Sun AK in

> > lagna in

> > > > Dhanus

> > > > > > > > (extraordinary combination for

unselfish giving by

> > itself).

> > > > > > > > But do you think it`s a

coincidence that His Master

had

> > > > exalted

> > > > > > > Saturn in 9th

> > > > > > > > bhava and Rahu AK? What do you

think, why even Swami

> > needed

> > > > these?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > One is not re-born after exhausting

his karma/desires.

Thus,

> > > > > > > vivekananda (Rahu PiK) came here to

exhaust his

remaining

> > > > karma/

> > > > > > > desires with Ramakrishna (Rahu AK).

There is no more

> > substance

> > > > to

> > > > > > > this than a past-life karmic

relationship of the two

which

> > > > continued

> > > > > > > in this birth also.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > > NITISH

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com

> > > > <sohamsa%40>,

"tijana" <nix_nixen@>

wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > Dear Nitish,

> > > > > > > > Your elaboration would be even

more brilliant if you

had

> > > > just answer

> > > > > > > > my question.

> > > > > > > > To fulfill ones own dharma is

what you probably had

in

> > mind

> > > > > > > mentioning

> > > > > > > > Gita in this context. But, are

you implying that Sun

AK

> > > > gives a

> > > > > > > > person akin to Janaka?! Are you

determing dharma

based on

> > > > this? Will

> > > > > > > > you advise Sun AK people to

take Dhartharastra as an

> > > > example!

> > > > > > > > So, again, what Raja will

hardly ever do is serving.

> > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda` s Dharm

bhava lord was Sun AK in

> > lagna in

> > > > Dhanus

> > > > > > > > (extraordinary combination for

unselfish giving by

> > itself).

> > > > But do

> > > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > think it`s a coincidence that

His Master had exalted

> > Saturn

> > > > in 9th

> > > > > > > > bhava and Rahu AK? What do you

think, why even Swami

> > needed

> > > > these?

> > > > > > > > Warm regards,

> > > > > > > > Tijana

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com

> > > > <sohamsa%40>,

"yeeahoo_99"

<nitish.arya@ >

> > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > || Om Tat Sat ||

> > > > > > > > > Dear Tijana,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > What is the thing

that Raja will hardly ever do?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Read up Gita, arthashastra

and ancient texts that

show

> > > > what

> > > > > > > all a

> > > > > > > > > Raja has to do to ensure

that his subjects are

protected

> > > > and

> > > > > > > progress

> > > > > > > > > on the upward evolutionary

path. Look at krishna,

Janaka

> > > > and

> > > > > > > > > ChandraGupta Maurya and

you will understand

whatever

> > > > that "hardly

> > > > > > > > > ever do" equates to.

> > > > > > > > > Otherwise, going by your

statement, AK wouldn't do

> > > > anything

> > > > > > > being

> > > > > > > > > the king of the horoscope

and the rest of the

> > karakas (BK,

> > > > PiK,

> > > > > > > Puk,

> > > > > > > > > GK) i.e. his subjects will

follow the suit!

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Actually, the mantra is

"Shiva jnane Jiva Seva"

(serving

> > > > every

> > > > > > > > > being as the full

manifestation of God) that

> > Narendranath

> > > > > > > received

> > > > > > > > > from his Master

Ramakrishna who had Sun in

Aquarius.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Being Sun AK, Vivekananda

had developed peculiar

> > sharpness

> > > > of

> > > > > > > > > perception and

assimilation that empowered him with

> > > > unusual power

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > pick up 'the gems' from

the talks of his Master.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > With Sun in Sagittarius,

he could, as compared to

> > others,

> > > > > > > easily

> > > > > > > > > 'see' the deep meaning in

the words of Sri

Ramakrishna,

> > > > even

> > > > > > > though

> > > > > > > > > the Master told them in

simple language (Aq Sun),

and

> > > > never as

> > > > > > > > > preaching.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > With its dispositor

Jupiter in Libra, gradually

Swami

> > > > > > > Vivekananda

> > > > > > > > > started assimilating tips

and hints on practical

Vedanta

> > > > that

> > > > > > > could

> > > > > > > > > benefit individual and

collective life in the

society.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > "...For spiritual

persons Sun as AK should be in

> > > > Jupiter`s

> > > > > > > signs

> > > > > > > > > > (Shiva jnane...),

otherwise it`s very hard

task..."

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Putting up statements like

you have done is not

> > wise. Sri

> > > > > > > Yukteswar

> > > > > > > > > Giri, has Sun AK placed in

Aries and had attained

> > highest

> > > > level

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > spirituality. Even if Sun

AK is placed in Libra, it

> > could

> > > > be the

> > > > > > > most

> > > > > > > > > spiritual person.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > AK shows the spiritual

power of a sign over the

rest of

> > > > the

> > > > > > > signs/

> > > > > > > > > planets in the chart and

this spiritual power

manifests

> > > > through

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > dispositor of AK and its

sign placement.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > > > > NITISH

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > sohamsa@

..com

> > > > <sohamsa%40>,

"tijana" <nix_nixen@>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > > > Dear Su,

> > > > > > > > > > Sun is the Self. Its

qualities are those of Raja

> > (karaka

> > > > for

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > first house, lord of

the 5th, dig bala in 10th).

> > What is

> > > > the

> > > > > > > thing

> > > > > > > > > > that Raja will hardly

ever do? The lesson that

has

> > to be

> > > > learnt

> > > > > > > by

> > > > > > > > > > Sun AK is serving, in

the highest sence it gives

> > "Shiva

> > > > jnane

> > > > > > > Shiva

> > > > > > > > > > seva" (service of man

as God)-the divine lesson

> > given to

> > > > us by

> > > > > > > > > Swami

> > > > > > > > > > Vivekananda (Sun AK).

For spiritual persons Sun

as AK

> > > > should be

> > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > Jupiter`s signs

(Shiva jnane...), otherwise it`s

very

> > > > hard task.

> > > > > > > > > > Warm regards,

> > > > > > > > > > Tijana

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > --- In

sohamsa@ .com

> > > > <sohamsa%40>,

"v reality" <reality_v@>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Dear Bojan-ji

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for

your reply. Much appreciated.

> > > > > > > > > > > If I may ask

another query re Sun AK. The

lesson

> > to be

> > > > > > > learnt

> > > > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > > Sun AK,

> > > > > > > > > > > is the reduction

of ego. Can this also be

understood

> > > > at a

> > > > > > > > > > different level

> > > > > > > > > > > as the

effacement of 'self' in a spiritual

sense?

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > thanks

> > > > > > > > > > > Su

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >Bojan

Vidakovic <janbovid@>

> > > > > > > > > > > >

sohamsa@ .com

> > > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > >To:

sohamsa@ .com

> > > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > >Re:

Jupiter as AK

> > > > > > > > > > > >Wed,

22 Aug 2007 08:33:22 -0700 (PDT)

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >HARE RAMA

KRISHNA

> > > > > > > > > > > >Dear Su

> > > > > > > > > > > >I would add

that with Gu AK person have to be

very

> > > > humble to

> > > > > > > all

> > > > > > > > > > spiritual

> > > > > > > > > > > >techers and

natives, like priests, gurus,

teachers.

> > > > With Ma

> > > > > > > AK

> > > > > > > > > > person must

> > > > > > > > > > > >practise

Ahumsa (nonviolence) , with Ch the

> > native is

> > > > always

> > > > > > > very

> > > > > > > > > > caring,

> > > > > > > > > > > >and gives

emotions but the problem is that

they

> > never

> > > > get

> > > > > > > enough

> > > > > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > > > >themselves

from other people. The person must

learn

> > > > lessons

> > > > > > > also

> > > > > > > > > > from the

> > > > > > > > > > > >people

represented with AK. Ch / mother, Sy /

> > father

> > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > everything those

> > > > > > > > > > > >grahas

represent.

> > > > > > > > > > > >Take few

examples of people you know and see

it in

> > > > praxix.

> > > > > > > Best

> > > > > > > > > > wishes,

> > > > > > > > > > > >Bojan

> > > > > > > > > > > >Hari Om Tat

Sat

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >Rafal

Gendarz <starsuponme@ > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > hraum namah

adityaya

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Su,

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Person

should use a lot of glass and sing/hum

> > > > melodies.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > Rafal

Gendarz

> > > > > > > > > > > > Sri

Jagannath Center Guru

> > > > > > > > > > > > email:

rafal@

> > > > > > > > > > > > Jyotish

pages: www.rohinaa. com

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > v reality

napisaÅ,(a): Dear Rafalji/Members

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > This is an

interesting discussion. Could we

> > discuss

> > > > other

> > > > > > > AKs

> > > > > > > > > > too. I read

> > > > > > > > > > > > in an

article that natives with Moon as AK

need to

> > > > learn

> > > > > > > to be

> > > > > > > > > > more

> > > > > > > > > > > >caring

> > > > > > > > > > > > and loving

to others. But I know of a chart

where

> > > > the

> > > > > > > native

> > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > already

> > > > > > > > > > > >by

> > > > > > > > > > > > nature very

caring, loving and concerned

about

> > > > others

> > > > > > > since

> > > > > > > > > > young. So

> > > > > > > > > > > >what

> > > > > > > > > > > > is the

lesson to be learnt?

> > > > > > > > > > > > thanks

> > > > > > > > > > > > Su

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@ wp.pl>

> > > > > > > > > > > >

>sohamsa@ .com

> > > > > > > > > > > > >To:

sohamsa@ .com

> > > > > > > > > > > >

>Re: Jupiter as AK

> > > > > > > > > > > > >Date:

Wed, 22 Aug 2007 10:24:14 +0200

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > *hraum

namah adityaya*

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >Dear LN

Kumar,

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >With Ju

AK person should learn to respect

others

> > > > > > > knowledge

> > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > >tradition,

> > > > > > > > > > > > >should

be ready to learn from others. When

Ju

> > is in

> > > > > > > kendra to

> > > > > > > > > > AK or is

> > > > > > > > > > > >AK

> > > > > > > > > > > > >himself

then native thinks that he knows

> > everything

> > > > and

> > > > > > > now

> > > > > > > > > He

> > > > > > > > > > can share

> > > > > > > > > > > > >His

knowledge with everybody. Good teachers

of

> > > > course

> > > > > > > comes

> > > > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > > >

>AK-Jupiter- Natives, as this graha will be

> > > > naturally in

> > > > > > > > > > Karakamsa.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >With MA

AK person should learn to catalyze

> > energies

> > > > > > > through

> > > > > > > > > > ZEN, TAI-CHI

> > > > > > > > > > > >or

> > > > > > > > > > > > >other

techniques, while with JU AK person

should

> > > > learn to

> > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > more humble

> > > > > > > > > > > >

>regarding knowledge. Of course person can be

> > > > focused on

> > > > > > > > > Jupiter-

> > > > > > > > > > karakas

> > > > > > > > > > > > >like

kids, spirituality, law, luck etc.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

>Mahadasa of AK brings lesson to us so its

not so

> > > > easy

> > > > > > > > > > materially but

> > > > > > > > > > > >

>inspiring spiritually, so if Surya is in

good

> > > > placement

> > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > AK

> > > > > > > > > > then it

> > > > > > > > > > > >can

> > > > > > > > > > > > >be not

so bad as person is spiritual.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > >Rafal

Gendarz

> > > > > > > > > > > > >Sri

Jagannath Center Guru

> > > > > > > > > > > > >email:

rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com

> > > > > > > > > > > > >Jyotish

pages: www.rohinaa. com

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

>narender kumar napisa?(a):

> > > > > > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > > > > >

>>Dear Gurujans,

> > > > > > > > > > > >

>>Kindly throw some light on Jupiter as

> > > > > > > > > > > >

>>Atmakaraka and having Jupiter as mahadasha.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > > > > >

>>Respectful Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > >>LN

Kumar

> > > > > > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > > > > >

>>__________ __ _________ _________ _________

> > > > _________

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September 6, 2007

हरे राम कृष्ण॥

Dear Sundeep, Namaskar

I'm glad you liked the discussion.

Did you miss the citations from the Shiva purana?

Comments to your questions:

I am eagerly watching the discussion between you and

Nitish, but

there are some logical gaps which I would love to see addressed.

Specifically, you initially have clearly indicated and given

scriptural evidence for the fact that the soul has 8 bondages (and

thank you for the information, it was very useful for me).

Visti: Glad to know.

However, it is an unverified logical leap from there to

the

conclusion that the 8 bondages must be sequentially removed and that

each chara AK focusses on one of the bondages. Can you please

substantiate this?

Visti: The second sloka i qouted stated that there are

i) eight bondages;

ii) these are on the jeevatma;

iii) without controlling these bondages one will not achieve

mukti.

The implication of points i) and ii) imply that we are speaking of

an animate being (jeevaatma) and that it is bound down by eight

bondages. The logical inference here is that these are the eight

charakaraka. Let me add here that when you read the dhyana bindu

upanishad you learn of the eight petals surrounding the heart, and that

the atma takes on different emotions, states and natures during its

movement through these eight petals.

Now comes the problem: If the atma resides in the heart and is

surrounded by these eight petals, then why is the Atmakaraka one of

these eight petals? The answer is: because the atma believes it is one

of these petals! What a predicament! From this we also learn that all

eight of the charakarakas are ALL different aspects of our OWN atma.

It is our luck that the Shiva purana teaches us that these are indeed

bondages, and manifest in the eight forms of prakriti.

To clarify, its not just the atmakaraka which focuses on each of

these bondages, but each charakaraka individually is bound down by

these bondages. Example: Where the seventh from AK shows the desires

which caused this birth, the Darakaraka itself shows the desires latent

from the last life, which continuously color our likes and dislikes in

relationships and financial matters... Another bondage. So all eight

show a bondage.

By analogy, when a person gets convicted of a crime and is

put in a

jail cell, the four walls of the jail cell are the 4 bondages (in a

sense) of the person. This does not automatically mean that the 4

walls have to be broken down in order to get freedom. The jailkeeper

must open the door and the court that has jurisdiction must

authorize him to do so.

In much the same way, scriptural evidence of 8 bondages

does not by

instant inference invalidate Nitish's argument that karma

(jailkeeper, court) is the only true bondage. You must supply

additional scriptural evidence of that weakening of the bondages can

be done individually (e.g. by AK's focus on one).

Visti: I think it was the fourth sloka of the same samhita, where it

reads that the eight bondages are caused due to karma. Example: If I in

my past life thought that great rajayoga comes from having a great

bathroom or swimming pool or living next to a river, and would strive

to attain that, then surely in this life i will be bound by that desire

and have Moon as my Darakaraka. So the karma caused the Bandhana, and

this is what i believe Shiva Purana tried to explain.

I have read

(though not completely) a translation of Vivekacudamani, and I only

see mention of the the 3 sariras and 5 koshas. Am I missing some

part of it (or some other key scriptures) where it says that people

in various stages of enlightenment have progressively "weaker"

koshas/sareeras/

Visti: In these two paragraphs you have been focusing on walls,

sharira and koshas. I understand your perspective, but where the five

koshas relate to the five stages of consciousness (the 16 divisional

charts), and the three shariras relate to the Sun, Moon and Lagna,

really the eight bondages are on the atma whose existance is prominent

in one of the shariras.

But because the Atma invariably is the cause of all the shariras to

exist to begin with, it has an overriding sway in the persons existence.

parts-thereof? Everyone seems to have Ahamkar,

whether or not they have Sun AK. No one is ever born without one of

the bondages - they always have all 8.

Visti: Yes, i clarified that all have all eight, just as all have

eight charakaraka. Just as the Chara-atmakaraka is like the Sun, so

also all planets in kendra to the atmakaraka show where we have

ahamkara. In the tradition we are taught to worship the planet

presiding over the eighth weekday from those planets in kendra to AK to

remove the ahamkara.

Example: for Mars as atmakaraka the eighth planet in weekday order is

the Sun. So the native should worship Shiva in the Rameshvara

Jyotirlinga form to overcome their ahamkara.

Hope you see my point. I am not contradicting you, simply

trying to

dig deeper into your wisdom..

Hope this helps.

Looking forward to your reply.

Yours sincerely,

--

Visti Larsen - SJC Guru

Jaimini SJC - Denmark

email: visti

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