[Fwd: Jupiter as AK (to Visti, Tijanaji, Nitish and v_reality)]

[Guest guest]

-------

 

 

 

 

Re: Jupiter as AK (to Visti, Tijanaji, Nitish and v_reality)

 

 

 

Sun, 09 Sep 2007 14:41:01 -0000

 

 

 

csna25 <csna25

 

 

 

Visti Larsen <visti

 

 

 

 

|| OM TAT SAT ||

Dear Visti,

> Visti: Why does it include those who practice the sohamsa-mantra

yajna?

Sohamsa is the mantra of breath - initiation a soul receives from

Sri Krishna to progress on the path to evolution. This is the

uninterrrupted only living parampara there is.

 

>Visti: How can I know what Krishna meant? Thats why i cited Adi

>Shankaras commentary, and now you are giving your own commentary.

> Should i believe in your commentary or that of Adi Shankara?

 

Chapter 6 sloka 5:

uddharedatmanatmanam natmanamavasadayet

atmaiva hyatmano bandhuratmaiva ripuratmanah -5-

 

> You are equating Buddhi with a spiritual faculty, and this is your

> basis for equating Buddhi with the Sun. Your intent is clear in

> this. Then why didn't you equate Buddhi with Jupiter or Ketu?

> Surely Ketu is much more spiritual than Sun.

 

In eightfold-Prakriti, Jupiter represents Akash Tattwa.

Ketu is not there in the scheme of Eightfold-Apara-prakriti, as it

would rather show a state after liberation from Prakriti.

Rahu, being the literal/zodiacal/mathematical opposite of Ketu,

has Zero-affinity towards liberation of a being (as you wrote, it

causes rebirth).

Sun is the only graha that performs the role of Buddhi as a

spiritual faculty.

 

> Visti: Again, just because a PURE buddhi enhances ones spiritual

> efforts, it doesn't mean it is signified by the Sun.

 

In the eight-fold scheme, Sun as PURE buddhi directs spiritual

effort after Rahu has done its role of bringing the soul back to a

physical body.

 

> Again, the basis of this statement itself is doubtful, due to which

> you would have to equate Ketu with Buddhi based on your

> statements. Based on what you have written how can you classify

> Buddhi as a Bandhana?

 

Karma is the only bandhana that Gita mentions.

 

> Visti: I don't think my Jyotish Guru is wrong. Also how do you

> justify that the bandhana has to be decided based on wisdom of the

> graha? Since when do Moon and Rahu not make spiritual efforts? Moon

> in eighth house makes the person meditate and perform kundalini

> yoga, whilst Rahu in tenth makes the person go on pilgrimages and

> visit tirthas. The Sun doesn't even meditate, he just has faith and

> goes to temple. Its Ketu who causes meditation, and its in the

> junction with Jupiter that he does so through a Guru, and its

> junction with Venus does so indendently.

 

Sun forms Shiva yoga with Ketu, and is exalted in constellation of

Ketu. Mind doesnt make any spiritual effort but needs to be

controlled (6:34).

 

From KathaUpanishad (III.Up.I.2.3. -13 & 14.)

'The Chariot of the Body': The five horses represent the five senses

(tongue, eyes, nose, ears and skin). The rein symbolises the mind,

the driver is the intelligence while the passenger is the jeevatma.

 

http://fixedreference.org/2006-Wikipedia-CD-Selection/images/46/

4642.jpg

 

In Mahabharata war scenario, Sri Krishna as driver of Arjunas'

chariot is the guiding intelligence of the jeevatma and controller of

the reins of the mind. This is the most perfect example of Guru-

Shishya relationship there is!

 

regards,

Nitish

 

sohamsa , Visti Larsen <visti wrote:

>

> ??? ??? ??????

>

> Dear Nitish, Namaskar

> Thank you for your reply.

>

> You wrote:

> / Gita is the commentary of Parampara of Sri Krishna - Arjuna, which

> includes everybody that practices the sohamsa mantra yajna. Thus,

you

> can benefit by reading it as it is the only living parampara till

> date.

> /

>

> Visti: Why does it include those who practice the sohamsa-mantra

yajna?

>

> The Gita revived the Parampara's through Adi Shankara, as he was

the one

> who brought it to the world, and it is one of his bhasyas. But the

Gita

> itself is not a parampara, but the cause of all the other

paramparas to

> exist. Each Shankaracharya Mutt is a Parampara in itself and

continues

> to preach the vedas.

>

> Your statement denounces the importance of these Mutts. Are you

> practicing the Sohamsa mantra-yajna through Sri Sri Ravi Shankar?

He was

> taught by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi and its well known that the origin

of

> Maharishi is the Jyotirmutt, thus making your Parampara the same.

>

> /You wrote:

> A person who isn't fit to distinguish between what he ought or

> ought not to do; do you think he is fit to practice spirituality?

Sri

> Krishna is not really telling arjuna to practice materiality

anyways.

> /

>

> /If you don't understand the role of buddhi from this sloka, Gita is

> full of slokas that talk about buddhi as a spiritual faculty (Sun),

> unlike Ahamkara (Rahu)./

>

> Visti: How can I know what Krishna meant? Thats why i cited Adi

> Shankaras commentary, and now you are giving your own commentary.

Should

> i believe in your commentary or that of Adi Shankara?

>

> You are equating Buddhi with a spiritual faculty, and this is your

basis

> for equating Buddhi with the Sun. Your intent is clear in this.

> Then why didn't you equate Buddhi with Jupiter or Ketu? Surely Ketu

is

> much more spiritual than Sun.

>

> /Chapter 3 sloka 1:

> Arjuna asks:

> "If Buddhi is greater than karma, Janardana

> Then why give me the order to be in this intense fight?"

>

> Chapter 3 sloka 42:

> Sri Krishna replies:

> "In the body the senses are superior

> >From the senses the mind is greater

> >From the mind the intellect (buddhi) is superior and

> Beyond the intellect is the Atman as the witness"/

>

> Visti: The word used in this sloka is not 'witness' but 'superior'.

Also

> the word 'Atma' is not from the translation, but from

Shankaracharyas

> commentary. The Atma is superior to the intellect, and in this case

it

> refers to Angirasa's definition of Antaratma, and is called 'the

self'

> according to Shankara.

>

> /Chapter 4 sloka 5 tells that many births of mine and yours have

> passed.

> Chapter 6 sloka 43:

>

> "Acquiring wisdom (BUDDHI-SAMYOGAM) revived from the previous body

> thereafter he endeavors once again for perfection."/

>

> Visti: Again, just because a PURE buddhi enhances ones spiritual

> efforts, it doesn't mean it is signified by the Sun.

>

> /> One could just as easily justify that since the main cause of

> > rebirth is Rahu, the stronger the bondage of Rahu, so also the

> > stronger the bondage of Buddhi and thus the eclipse

> > of the Sun/spirituality.

>

> Do you still have doubts that Sun refers to Buddhi? Rahu (Ahamkara)

> and Moon (manas) don't make spiritual efforts.

> Rahu cannot be considered to be wise, in this context, that its

> "rebirth-causing-//bondage-quality" be used to achieve perfection

and

> liberation in this birth. It is only good at helping a rebirth, not

> helping to liberate - thus it is not doing the function of Buddhi by

> 6:43.

> /

>

> Visti: I don't think my Jyotish Guru is wrong. Also how do you

justify

> that the bandhana has to be decided based on wisdom of the graha?

> Since when do Moon and Rahu not make spiritual efforts? Moon in

eighth

> house makes the person meditate and perform kundalini yoga, whilst

Rahu

> in tenth makes the person go on pilgrimages and visit tirthas. The

Sun

> doesn't even meditate, he just has faith and goes to temple. Its

Ketu

> who causes meditation, and its in the junction with Jupiter that he

does

> so through a Guru, and its junction with Venus does so

independently.

>

> Again, the basis of this statement itself is doubtful, due to which

you

> would have to equate Ketu with Buddhi based on your statements.

Based

> on what you have written how can you classify Buddhi as a Bandhana?

> Rahu is extremely useful at helping liberation... In fact i can

justify

> how each planet can help liberation, but thats not a fair basis for

> justifying their Bandhanas.

>

> /How many of the 6 billion people, all born due to Rahu-bond are

> using this birth to make a spiritual effort?

> /

>

> Visti: How about Ramakrishna Paramahamsa? How about Srila

Prabhupada?

> They are the causes of the largest spiritual missions in India and

> abroad. I think they made great spiritual effort. They have Rahu as

> atmakaraka!

>

> Sun on the other hand causes problems with ahamkara in the person.

> Citing Sanjay Rath: <http://www.srath.com/lessons/advanced/ak2.htm>

>

> "*Planets as ätmakäraka: *1. Sun as AK indicates the native

has to

> learn to overcome his ego and should become humble." refer:

> http://srath.com/lessons/advanced/ak.htm

>

> "Ahankära refers to its independent identity and is the false ego

(*not

> Freud's ego*). This is false because the identity is not permanent

and

> it is an ego as it helps to identify the object and differentiate

it

> from the other bodies/creatures of its class or family. This is

> represented by the Sun in astrology." refer:

> http://www.srath.com/lessons/advanced/ak2.htm

>

> Visti: note the careful reference to /ego /not being equated with

> Freud's understanding of Ego.

>

> /Chapter 7 verse 10:

> "O Arjuna, try to understand me as the eternal origin of all living

> entities. I am the (BuddhirBuddhiMataA/ /smi) intelligence in the

> intelligent, and the brilliance of the brilliant."

>

> Chapter 10 sloka 10:

> "One who is always united with Me (see 6:18) and who meditates upon

Me

> with love -- I bestow him with buddhiyoga (meaning stillness) by

> which, he is the one who attains Me."

>

> Chapter 15 sloka 20:

> (Etad Buddhva Buddhimaan syat KritaKrityascha bharata)

> "Understand with your intelligence this most secret science that I

> have explained to you and become wise, and thereupon be successful

in

> all your duties."

>

> Chapter 18 sloka 30:

> " One who knows engagement and withdrawal, work and work not to be

> done, fear and non-fear, bondage and liberation -- this type of

> (Buddhi) intellect is sattvic."

>

> Rahu cannot be Sattvic!

> /

>

> Visti: Does that mean Sun can be tamasic? How about all those who

don't

> have satva budhi? Are you saying they don't have a buddhi because

its

> not satvic? Your justification doesn't hold water.

>

> /Chapter 18, sloka 57:

> "Dedicate all action to Me from the (chetasa)heart, extinguish

> wholly, be devoted to Me, take recourse in buddhi-yoga and keep your

> consciousness always on Me."

>

> 18:30, 10:10 -- there is nothing like Ahamkara Yoga, but Buddhi-

> Yoga. With Sun as ParamAtma, one would have a yoga with him as

Buddhi.

>

> Thus, if buddhi is all that important all along from 2nd to 18th

> chapter, in Gita, lets understand it as a function of Surya with

> Sattvic Buddhi. /

>

> Visti: If Satvic Budhi is the Sun, then is Sun also Tamasic/impure

> Budhi? You are only dealing with the highest aspect of Buddhi in

these

> slokas, and not speaking of Buddhi as a bandhana.

>

> Since our entire discussion revolves around Sun, Moon and Rahu

which are

> the causes of the eclipse, i will quote a translation of

Dakshinamurti

> Stotra:

>

> rähugrastadiväkarendusadåço mäyäsamäcchädanät sanmätraù

> karaëopasaàharaëato yo'bhütsuñuptaù pumän |

>

> prägasväpsamiti prabodhasamaye yaù pratyabhijïäyate tasmai

> çrégurumürtaye nama idaà çrédakñiëämürtaye || 6||

>

> The Sun (atma) is eclipsed when the Moon (Mana) conjoins it and the

Moon

> is in the latitude as the orbital plane of the earth where the

> intersection points are the nodes (Rahu & Ketu). It is this Rahu

that is

> said to cause the eclipse. Simiarly, the Rahu of our lives is our

own

> desires and sice Rahu is a node of the Moon (mana), the desires are

the

> creation of the mind. It is the coming together or conjunction of

the

> atma (Sun), mana (Moon) and desires (Rahu) that causes an eclipse

or

> birth itself.

>

> Visti: The key lies in this, namely that Rahu being a node of the

Moon

> is the cause of desires created in the mind, and very much deals

with

> the mind.

>

> Further; ATMA means self. There are three types of atma according

to

> Angirasa, namely: Atma, Antaratma and Paramatma. The first is the

body

> itself and its senses. The second is the abode of the individual

soul or

> Jeevatma, and finally the Paramatma is God.

>

> So when Parasara and other seers stated that the Sun is the atma,

they

> also refer to the entire gamut of definitions of the self. Ahamkara

is a

> function of 'thinking' one is the self, and is the bondage that

caused

> the Jeevatma to separate from the Paramatma to begin with! This is

> defined in the cosmology where the ahamkara merged with the various

> Gunas to cause the bhutas, etc. to manifest.

>

> Looking forward to your reply.

> Yours sincerely,

>

> --

> Visti Larsen - SJC Guru

> Jaimini SJC - Denmark

> email: visti <visti

> For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: http://

srigaruda.com

> <http://srigaruda.com>

>

> yeeahoo_99 wrote:

> >

> > || OM TAT SAT ||

> > Dear Visti,

> > Gita is the commentary of Parampara of Sri Krishna - Arjuna, which

> > includes everybody that practices the sohamsa mantra yajna. Thus,

you

> > can benefit by reading it as it is the only living parampara till

> > date.

> >

> > > Visti: I don't have this translation. Is this an inference?

> > > The last two words used here are: buddhinaashaat-praNashyati =

> > > destruction of buddhi causes one to be lost/dissapear/vanish/

> > perish. > Did you infer that it was spirituality which perished?

To

> > this Adi

> > > Shankara comments: /Indeed, a man continues to be himself so

long

> > as > his mind remains fit to distinguish between what he ought to

and

> > > ought not to do./

> >

> > A person who isn't fit to distinguish between what he ought or

> > ought not to do; do you think he is fit to practice spirituality?

Sri

> > Krishna is not really telling arjuna to practice materiality

anyways.

> >

> > If you don't understand the role of buddhi from this sloka, Gita

is

> > full of slokas that talk about buddhi as a spiritual faculty

(Sun),

> > unlike Ahamkara (Rahu).

> >

> > Chapter 3 sloka 1:

> > Arjuna asks:

> > "If Buddhi is greater than karma, Janardana

> > Then why give me the order to be in this intense fight?"

> >

> > Chapter 3 sloka 42:

> > Sri Krishna replies:

> > "In the body the senses are superior

> > >From the senses the mind is greater

> > >From the mind the intellect (buddhi) is superior and

> > Beyond the intellect is the Atman as the witness"

> >

> > Chapter 4 sloka 5 tells that many births of mine and yours have

> > passed.

> > Chapter 6 sloka 43:

> >

> > "Acquiring wisdom (BUDDHI-SAMYOGAM) revived from the previous body

> > thereafter he endeavors once again for perfection."

> >

> > > One could just as easily justify that since the main cause of

> > > rebirth is Rahu, the stronger the bondage of Rahu, so also the

> > > stronger the bondage of Buddhi and thus the eclipse

> > > of the Sun/spirituality.

> >

> > Do you still have doubts that Sun refers to Buddhi? Rahu

(Ahamkara)

> > and Moon (manas) don't make spiritual efforts.

> > Rahu cannot be considered to be wise, in this context, that its

> > "rebirth-causing-bondage-quality" be used to achieve perfection

and

> > liberation in this birth. It is only good at helping a rebirth,

not

> > helping to liberate - thus it is not doing the function of Buddhi

by

> > 6:43.

> > How many of the 6 billion people, all born due to Rahu-bond are

> > using this birth to make a spiritual effort?

> >

> > Chapter 7 verse 10:

> > "O Arjuna, try to understand me as the eternal origin of all

living

> > entities. I am the (BuddhirBuddhiMataAsmi) intelligence in the

> > intelligent, and the brilliance of the brilliant."

> >

> > Chapter 10 sloka 10:

> > "One who is always united with Me (see 6:18) and who meditates

upon Me

> > with love -- I bestow him with buddhiyoga (meaning stillness) by

> > which, he is the one who attains Me."

> >

> > Chapter 15 sloka 20:

> > (Etad Buddhva Buddhimaan syat KritaKrityascha bharata)

> > "Understand with your intelligence this most secret science that I

> > have explained to you and become wise, and thereupon be

successful in

> > all your duties."

> >

> > Chapter 18 sloka 30:

> > " One who knows engagement and withdrawal, work and work not to be

> > done, fear and non-fear, bondage and liberation -- this type of

> > (Buddhi) intellect is sattvic."

> >

> > Rahu cannot be Sattvic!

> >

> > Chapter 18, sloka 57:

> > "Dedicate all action to Me from the (chetasa)heart, extinguish

> > wholly, be devoted to Me, take recourse in buddhi-yoga and keep

your

> > consciousness always on Me."

> >

> > 18:30, 10:10 -- there is nothing like Ahamkara Yoga, but Buddhi-

> > Yoga. With Sun as ParamAtma, one would have a yoga with him as

Buddhi.

> >

> > Thus, if buddhi is all that important all along from 2nd to 18th

> > chapter, in Gita, lets understand it as a function of Surya with

> > Sattvic Buddhi.

> >

> > regards,

> > Nitish

> >

> > sohamsa

<sohamsa%40>,

> > Visti Larsen <visti@> wrote:

> > >

> > > ??? ??? ??????

> > >

> > > Dear Nitish, Namaskar

> > > Thank you for your mail.

> > > You mention a Parampara below. Please provide the name of the

> > Parampara

> > > and its commentary for our benefit so we can read more. In

> > answering

> > > your points, i will be using the Gita's commentary by Adi

Shankara

> > -

> > > translated by Svami Gambhirananda.

> > >

> > > /1.) About Buddhi:

> > > Chapter 2 sloka 52, 53 -->

> > > "When Buddhi penetrates beyond darkness of delusion, then you

shall

> > > be indifferent about the matters heard and to-be-heard./

> > >

> > > /."

> > > "..Buddhi becoming securely anchored in soul bliss, one attains

> > yoga."

> > > /

> > >

> > > /Chapter 2 sloka 62,63 -->

> > > DECAY OF BUDDHI causes ANNIHILATION of spiritual life./

> > >

> > > Visti: I don't have this translation. Is this an inference? The

> > last two

> > > words used here are: buddhinaashaat-praNashyati = destruction of

> > buddhi

> > > causes one to be lost/dissapear/vanish/perish. Did you infer

that

> > it was

> > > spirituality which perished? To this Adi Shankara comments: /

> > Indeed, a

> > > man continues to be himself so long as his mind remains fit to

> > > distinguish between what he ought to and ought not to do./

> > >

> > > /NOTE:- Jyotish tells us that Sprituality is related to Sun more

> > than

> > > Rahu, as seen in those with AK in kendra to Sun.

> > > /

> > >

> > > Visti: All eight of the bandhanas once tightened cause loss of

> > > spirituality, not just Buddhi. If a student has so much ahamkara

> > that he

> > > believes he knows everything, then he will not read books and

again

> > > spirituality is destroyed. If a one is fully engrossed in his/

her

> > desire

> > > for procreation then again the spirituality is ruined. The

latter

> > is

> > > explained in Chapter 2, sloka 60. So all eight bandhas cause

this

> > > problem, and not just Buddhi.

> > >

> > > /Chapter 2 sloka 65 -->

> > > Buddhi of the blissful man soon becomes firmly established (in

the

> > > self).

> > >

> > > Chapter 5 sloka 20 -->

> > > "The Knower of spirit, abiding in Supreme being, with STHIRA

BUDDHI,

> > > free from delusion, is thus neither jubiliant at pleasant

> > experiences

> > > nor downcast by unpleasant experiences./ /"/

> > >

> > > Visti: You are very right to give Buddhi such a high pedestal

among

> > the

> > > eight bandhas, because indeed the worst Bandha is that of Buddhi

> > just as

> > > Rahu is the main karaka for all Bandhana of the soul. Overcoming

> > this,

> > > all the other bandhas break easily. This is the reason Rahu is

the

> > main

> > > cause of rebirth. This is why the Shiva purana

(Satirudrasamhita)

> > states

> > > that the Shiva form who is able to control the bondage of Rahu

is

> > > Pashupati. Shiva then explains that Pashupati is responsible for

> > > breaking all wordly bondages (pashupAshanikR^intanaM).

> > > According to Shiva, Ishana is the form of Shiva which controls

> > Surya.

> > > More below.

> > >

> > > /2.) About AHAMKARA:

> > > Chapter 2 sloka 71 -->

> > > "That person realizes peace who, relinquishing all desires,

exists

> > > without craving and is UNIDENTIFIED WITH AHAMKARA (mortal ego)

and

> > > its sense of mine-ness."/

> > >

> > > Visti: Adi Shankara comments that this actually refers to one

> > becoming

> > > one with Brahman i.e. enlightenment. Among the forms of Shiva

which

> > > specifically give this enlightenment (sandIpayajjagatsarvam -

> > enlightens

> > > the entire universe), we see that the form of Ishana is talked

> > about.

> > > Note that the word used is /SandIpa/, and this happens to be the

> > Guru of

> > > Sri Krishna (SandIpani).

> > > However, this sloka from the Gita is not strictly for ahamkara,

but

> > for

> > > all the eight bandhas.

> > >

> > > /3.) About MANAS JOINED WITH BUDDHI:

> > > Chapter 2 sloka 51:

> > > "Those whose minds are joined to wisdom (BUDDHI-YUKTA)/ /,

having

> > > abandoned action's fruit, Freed thus from bondage to rebirth,

they

> > > attain the state beyond sorrow."

> > >

> > > Also refer Chapter 13 slokas 1 - 11:

> > >

> > > "...Indifference to sense objects, And absence of egotism

> > > (NIRHAMKARA)/ /;...Constant evenmindedness in Desired and

undesired

> > > events...With single-minded yoga,...Constant in knowledge of the

> > Self,

> > > Seeing the goal of truth-knowledge--

> > > This is said to be true knowledge.

> > > The contrary is ignorance."

> > >

> > > Chapter 8 sloka 9 refers

> > > "He who meditates on the Seer, the Ruler, The ancient, subtler

than

> > > the atom, support Of all, Whose form is inconceivable and

RADIANT

> > > LIKE THE SUN and beyond darkness."

> > >

> > > This proves beyond doubt and questioning the central role of

> > > BUDDHI in the spiritual growth of a devotee like ARJUNA. Now,

this

> > > role is not played by AHAMKARA or MANAS independently.

> > > Thus, Sun as dispeller of darkness is the only correct

assignment of

> > > the role of Buddhi.

> > > /

> > >

> > > Visti: Your inference implies that only one of the eight bandhas

> > deal

> > > with spiritual growth or its lacking. One could just as easily

> > justify

> > > that since the main cause of rebirth is Rahu, the stronger the

> > bondage

> > > of Rahu, so also the stronger the bondage of Buddhi and thus the

> > eclipse

> > > of the Sun/spirituality. Thus for this reason we worship Sri

> > > Dakshinamurti on the day of the eclipse to be released from this

> > > Bandhana and get enighenment. This is what the Sadhu's practice.

> > >

> > > Note the word Buddhi is used in three different ways in the gita

> > > according to Adi Shankara and Gambhiranandas translation, viz.

i)

> > buddhi

> > > as a bandha, ii) samatva buddhi (pure buddhi) and iii) buddhi as

> > > enlightenment, and cannot be mixed arbitrarily.

> > >

> > > /Getting back to the eightfold Prakriti, Sun (Buddhi), Moon

(MANAS)

> > > and Rahu (Ahamkara) is the only correct version as per the

> > >

> > > GURU-SHISYA PARAMPARA

> > > from

> > > Sri Krishna-Arjuna/

> > >

> > > The reason why in Jyotish most associate the Sun with Ahamkara

in

> > > general terms, is because of the story of Vivasvan and Sanjna

> > > (memory/recollection). In the story Vivasvans rays become so

> > bright, and

> > > he became so knowledgeable (and self absorbed) that Sanjna left

and

> > only

> > > left her shadow (false recollection) behind.

> > >

> > > He only could reunite with Sanjna once his father in-law reduced

> > the

> > > rays of Vivasvan, and he could himself take on a form that

Sanjna

> > was

> > > pleased with.

> > > So the story of Vivasvan/Surya tells us about this nature of

> > Ahamkara.

> > >

> > > Looking forward to your reply.

> > > Yours sincerely,

> > >

> > > --

> > > Visti Larsen - SJC Guru

> > > Jaimini SJC - Denmark

> > > email: visti@ <visti@>

> > > For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: http://

> > srigaruda.com

> > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>

> > >

> > > yeeahoo_99 wrote:

> > > >

> > > > || OM TAT SAT||

> > > > Dear Visti,

> > > > Lets look at what Sri Krishna tells Arjuna in Gita about

Buddhi,

> > > > Manas and Ahamkara.

> > > >

> > > > 1.) About Buddhi:

> > > > Chapter 2 sloka 52, 53 -->

> > > > "When Buddhi penetrates beyond darkness of delusion, then you

> > shall

> > > > be indifferent about the matters heard and to-be-heard.."

> > > > "..Buddhi becoming securely anchored in soul bliss, one

attains

> > yoga."

> > > >

> > > > Chapter 2 sloka 62,63 -->

> > > > DECAY OF BUDDHI causes ANNIHILATION of spiritual life.

> > > >

> > > > NOTE:- Jyotish tells us that Sprituality is related to Sun

more

> > than

> > > > Rahu, as seen in those with AK in kendra to Sun.

> > > >

> > > > Chapter 2 sloka 65 -->

> > > > Buddhi of the blissful man soon becomes firmly established

(in the

> > > > self).

> > > >

> > > > Chapter 5 sloka 20 -->

> > > > "The Knower of spirit, abiding in Supreme being, with STHIRA

> > BUDDHI,

> > > > free from delusion, is thus neither jubiliant at pleasant

> > experiences

> > > > nor downcast by unpleasant experiences."

> > > >

> > > > 2.) About AHAMKARA:

> > > > Chapter 2 sloka 71 -->

> > > > "That person realizes peace who, relinquishing all desires,

exists

> > > > without craving and is UNIDENTIFIED WITH AHAMKARA (mortal

ego) and

> > > > its sense of mine-ness."

> > > >

> > > > 3.) About MANAS JOINED WITH BUDDHI:

> > > > Chapter 2 sloka 51:

> > > > "Those whose minds are joined to wisdom (BUDDHI-YUKTA), having

> > > > abandoned action's fruit, Freed thus from bondage to rebirth,

they

> > > > attain the state beyond sorrow."

> > > >

> > > > Also refer Chapter 13 slokas 1 - 11:

> > > >

> > > > "...Indifference to sense objects, And absence of egotism

> > > > (NIRHAMKARA);...Constant evenmindedness in Desired and

undesired

> > > > events...With single-minded yoga,...Constant in knowledge of

the

> > Self,

> > > > Seeing the goal of truth-knowledge--

> > > > This is said to be true knowledge.

> > > > The contrary is ignorance."

> > > >

> > > > Chapter 8 sloka 9 refers

> > > > "He who meditates on the Seer, the Ruler, The ancient, subtler

> > than

> > > > the atom, support Of all, Whose form is inconceivable and

RADIANT

> > > > LIKE THE SUN and beyond darkness."

> > > >

> > > > This proves beyond doubt and questioning the central role of

> > > > BUDDHI in the spiritual growth of a devotee like ARJUNA. Now,

this

> > > > role is not played by AHAMKARA or MANAS independently.

> > > > Thus, Sun as dispeller of darkness is the only correct

assignment

> > of

> > > > the role of Buddhi.

> > > >

> > > > Getting back to the eightfold Prakriti, Sun (Buddhi), Moon

(MANAS)

> > > > and Rahu (Ahamkara) is the only correct version as per the

> > > >

> > > > GURU-SHISYA PARAMPARA

> > > > from

> > > > Sri Krishna-Arjuna

> > > >

> > > > regards,

> > > > Nitish

> > > >

> > > > sohamsa

<sohamsa%40>

> > <sohamsa%40>,

> > > > Visti Larsen <visti@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > ??? ??? ??????

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Nitish, Namaskar

> > > > > Thank you for this mail.

> > > > > I will be answering the main points of your mail. The main

> > points

> > > > being

> > > > > the foundation of the facts/statements you present.

> > > > >

> > > > > /You wrote:

> > > > > So lets begin with Eightfold-Prakriti of Krishna, your

reference

> > > > > point itself is incorrect. Gita Chapter 7 sloka 4 states:...

> > > > > /

> > > > >

> > > > > I cannot disagree, as i had wrongly written prakriti

instead of

> > > > buddhi.

> > > > > Siva purana confirms this:

> > > > > */Siva Purana, Vishvesvara Samhita,4/*

> > > > > /Prakriti /comprises of buddhi, ahamkara, gunaatmaka and

> > > > panchatanmatra.

> > > > > All these combined are called Prakriti.

> > > > >

> > > > > /You wrote:

> > > > > Neither the five tattwas, Buddhi nor Manah can be assigned

to

> > Rahu

> > > > > and thus Ahamkara is the only thing that can logically be

> > assigned

> > > > to

> > > > > Rahu. So the correct version of eightfold representation of

> > Prakriti

> > > > > is:...

> > > > > /

> > > > >

> > > > > Mana and Buddhi can indeed both be attributed to Rahu, as

Rahu

> > is

> > > > well

> > > > > known to show the desires of the mind. Here the Parampara

comes

> > to

> > > > our

> > > > > help and specifically defines Buddhi to be assigned to Rahu,

> > > > whereas

> > > > > Mana and Ahamkara have been assigned to Moon and Sun

> > respectively.

> > > > So

> > > > > why does Sun represent Ahamkara?

> > > > > aham = self. kaara=causative/doer. The cause of self in

other

> > words.

> > > > > Monier Williams translates this as:

> > > > > /m. conception of one's individuality , self-consciousness

> > ChUp. & c.

> > > > > the making of self , thinking of self , egotism MBh. & c./

> > > > >

> > > > > Where Rahu caused the desire which led to rebirth, it is a

given

> > > > that

> > > > > the Sun is the actual creator of everything, and with that

> > creation

> > > > the

> > > > > ahamkaara is one of the negative effects of the same. But

this

> > is

> > > > just

> > > > > my justification the traditions teachings.

> > > > >

> > > > > /You wrote:

> > > > > There is ONLY ONE bondage and not Eight of them. Ahamkara

> > doesn't

> > > > > cause bondage of atma as you have written, but Karma alone

> > causes

> > > > > bondage of atma, and is not a part of eightfold-prakriti

> > referred

> > > > > above. Refer Gita Chapter 2 verse 39 as follows:

> > > > > /

> > > > >

> > > > > The sloka you qoute is right, but your inference... Heres

what

> > Siva

> > > > > Purana says:/

> > > > > /

> > > > >

> > > > > */Siva Purana, Vishvesvara Samhita,2/*

> > > > > Because of remaining in eight types of bandhana, the soul is

> > called

> > > > > /Jeeva/. When a person is freed from these bondages, the

person

> > is

> > > > > called /Mukta.

> > > > > /

> > > > >

> > > > > /*Siva Purana, Vishvesvara Samhita,3*

> > > > > /Emancipation is the control of these bondages of prakriti

etc.

> > One

> > > > > trapped in these is called /Jeeva/, and one freed from them

is

> > > > called

> > > > > /Mukta./

> > > > >

> > > > > */Siva Purana, Vishvesvara Samhita,4/*

> > > > > /Prakriti /comprises of buddhi, ahamkara, gunaatmaka and

> > > > panchatanmatra.

> > > > > All these combined are called Prakriti.

> > > > >

> > > > > */Siva Purana, Vishvesvara Samhita,5/*

> > > > > These eight bondages are the body. The activities of this

body

> > are

> > > > > called the /karmas/.

> > > > >

> > > > > Later in sloka 8 Suta explains that due to karmas the soul

is

> > bound

> > > > by

> > > > > these eight bondages. So these are indeed the bondages and

they

> > are

> > > > > created due to Karma. The issue being that the bondages

> > themselves

> > > > can

> > > > > lead one to recreate the same karma again and again, just

as one

> > > > desire

> > > > > leads to a thousand more.

> > > > >

> > > > > /You wrote:

> > > > > ParamAtma is a collective of all the atmas. Concept of Chara

> > > > > karakas is only indicative of the separate identity

(Ahamkara)

> > of

> > > > > soul in the realm of relationships - led by the AK as a king

> > leads a

> > > > > kingdom. So AK has the job of understanding the realm of

> > > > > relationships with other atmas and thereby help the

attainment

> > of

> > > > > individuals' understanding of ParamAtma./

> > > > >

> > > > > Yes, once Sun atmakaraka's understand this within

themselves,

> > they

> > > > > should teach it to others.

> > > > > Looking forward to your reply.

> > > > >

> > > > > Yours sincerely,

> > > > >

> > > > > --

> > > > > Visti Larsen - SJC Guru

> > > > > Jaimini SJC - Denmark

> > > > > email: visti@ <visti@>

> > > > > For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: http://

> > > > srigaruda.com

> > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>

> > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>>

> > > > >

> > > > > yeeahoo_99 wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > || Om TAT SAT ||

> > > > > > Dear Visti,

> > > > > > Thanks for a good mail.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > Surely Surya is not Ahamkara, thats like saying that

Rahu is

> > > > Durga.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > How are you so sure about it? The question still remains

> > > > unanswered

> > > > > > i.e. how do you prove that Surya represents Ahamkara?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > The graha which 'represents' the bondage of ahamkara is

> > Surya.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > This brings up another question: i.e. if there is a

bondage of

> > > > > > Ahamkara at all?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Ahamkar is referred in Gita chapter 3, verse 27 as

follows:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > "All activities are being enacted by the senses of the

> > (Prakriti)

> > > > > > material nature without exception; but the unrealized,

> > deluded by

> > > > > > (AhamKara) false identification of being the body, thus

> > thinks:

> > > > "I am

> > > > > > the doer"

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > Ahamkara (surya), Manas (chandra), Prakriti (rahu),

> > > > Akasha(guru),

> > > > > > > Agni(mangala), Jala (shukra), Vayu (shani) and Prithvi

> > (budha)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > So lets begin with Eightfold-Prakriti of Krishna, your

> > reference

> > > > > > point itself is incorrect. Gita Chapter 7 sloka 4 states:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > "Earth, water, fire, air, ether, Manah, Buddhi, and

Ahamkara;

> > thus

> > > > > > these are the eightfold divisions of my Prakriti."

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Neither the five tattwas, Buddhi nor Manah can be

assigned to

> > Rahu

> > > > > > and thus Ahamkara is the only thing that can logically be

> > > > assigned to

> > > > > > Rahu. So the correct version of eightfold representation

of

> > > > Prakriti

> > > > > > is:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Buddhi (surya), Manah (chandra), Ahamkara (rahu),

> > Akasha(guru),

> > > > > > Agni(mangala), Jala (shukra), Vayu (shani) and Prithvi

(budha)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > Now, to overcome these eight bondages, there are EIGHT

ways

> > to

> > > > look

> > > > > > > at God through which we can be freed. For the Ahamkara

we

> > must

> > > > > > > look at God as Paramatman.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > There is ONLY ONE bondage and not Eight of them. Ahamkara

> > doesn't

> > > > > > cause bondage of atma as you have written, but Karma alone

> > causes

> > > > > > bondage of atma, and is not a part of eightfold-prakriti

> > referred

> > > > > > above. Refer Gita Chapter 2 verse 39 as follows:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > "O Arjuna! What has been declared to you this spiritual

> > > > intelligence

> > > > > > (Buddhih) according to the Samkhya (the path of

knowledge).

> > Now

> > > > > > listen to the teaching of Yoga (the path of selfless

action

> > > > combined

> > > > > > with devotion) by practising which the bondage of Karma is

> > > > overcome."

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Also, Chapter 3 verse 9 verifies that Karma causes

bondage:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > "O son of Kunti! In this world all actions, unless they

are

> > done

> > > > as

> > > > > > an offering to God (or as Yajna), become causes of

bondage.

> > > > > > Therefore, work for the sake of God without personal

> > attachments."

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Chapter 3 verse 31 cross-verfies it as follows:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > "Whoever follow this teaching of mine, with their minds

full

> > of

> > > > faith

> > > > > > and free from disparagement, they also are released from

the

> > > > bondage

> > > > > > of reactions from Actions (Karma)."

> > > > > >

> > > > > > That liberation is attained by knowing the correct way of

> > acting

> > > > is

> > > > > > given in Chapter 4 verse 16:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > "What is (karma) action and what is (akarma) 'non-

action', is

> > a

> > > > > > subject regarding which even the wise are perplexed. I

shall

> > > > > > therefore speak to you about (Karma)work, by knowing which

> > one is

> > > > > > liberated from evil (or the life of bondage in Samsara)"

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The reason for liberation is written as Chapter 5 verse 3:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > "It should be known, O mighty-armed one! That one who

neither

> > > > > > disdains nor desires fruits of actions, should be known

as one

> > > > > > established in renunciation. Certainly, that person being

free

> > > > from

> > > > > > all dualities is easily liberated from bondage."

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > For the Ahamkara we must look at God as Paramatman.

This is

> > the

> > > > > > > remedy itself. And the specific form of Shiva

> > > > > > > who will help us realize this is Ishana for the Sun.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Please understand that Ahamkara is not a disease that we

look

> > for

> > > > > > remedies to it. It is the eightfold prakriti of Krishna.

> > > > Otherwise,

> > > > > > mind, buddhi, and pancha-tattwas will also need to be

> > remedied.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > And among those born with Surya as atmakaraka we have

> > grades of

> > > > > > > those being fully engrossed in ahamkara vs. having

complete

> > > > control

> > > > > > > of ahamkara.

> > > > > > I am not sure what you mean by complete control of

Ahamkara,

> > > > > > because one who has complete control of his manas and has

> > buddhi

> > > > > > devoted to Krishna - realizes his divine nature of

> > > > "AhamBrahmaAsmi"

> > > > > > and gets freed from the bondage of Karma.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > Divine souls like Vivekananda, Ramakrishna

> > > > > > > Paramahamsa and Sri Krishna being at one end of the

scale.

> > With

> > > > > > > fellows like Donald Trump, Adolph Hitler (exalted surya

> > yuti AK)

> > > > > > >and others at the other end of the scale.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Liberation is caused by the development of divine/demoniac

> > nature,

> > > > > > Chapter 16 Verse 5:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > "The divine nature is considered the cause of liberation

and

> > the

> > > > > > demoniac nature the cause of bondage. Grieve not, O son of

> > Pandu!

> > > > You

> > > > > > are born of the divine nature."

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > So please don't make the equation that everyone with

Surya

> > > > > > > atmakaraka is Paramatman. That would be quite delusional

> > > > indeed...

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Even as paramatman is Omnipresent, it is not possible to

say

> > that

> > > > > > any mortal being is apart from paramatman, whether it be

> > Surya AK

> > > > in

> > > > > > a specific context. In any case, no such equation about

> > > > > > Atmakaraka and Paramatma has been made by me.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The only question asked is about how "Surya" represents

> > Ahamkara,

> > > > > > devoid of any Chara Karaka Status whatsoever. You should

have

> > > > read my

> > > > > > mail more thoroughly to have not missed the point that was

> > being

> > > > made.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ParamAtma is a collective of all the atmas. Concept of

Chara

> > > > > > karakas is only indicative of the separate identity

> > (Ahamkara) of

> > > > > > soul in the realm of relationships - led by the AK as a

king

> > > > leads a

> > > > > > kingdom. So AK has the job of understanding the realm of

> > > > > > relationships with other atmas and thereby help the

> > attainment of

> > > > > > individuals' understanding of ParamAtma.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Finally, about the points you made:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > As proved earlier, Surya as representing Buddhi of the

eight-

> > fold

> > > > > > Prakriti of Krishna - is referred to as ParamAtma in a

chart

> > by

> > > > > > Jyotish Texts, whatever be the Chara AtmaKaraka. That

Buddhi/

> > > > > > intelligence in creatures is Krishna is verified by Gita

> > Chapter

> > > > 10,

> > > > > > sloka 22:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > "Of the Vedas, I am the Sama Veda; among the Devas, I am

> > Indra; of

> > > > > > the senses, I am the mind; and in living beings, I am

> > > > intelligence."

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > See, the devatas reside in svarga loka and this

corresponds

> > to

> > > > the

> > > > > > > nakshatras.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Jyotish tells that constellations are overlorded by

luminary

> > Moon

> > > > > > and Moon derives its luminosity from Sun. Therefore, as a

> > > > consequence

> > > > > > the concept of devatas associated with the swarga of

> > > > constellations

> > > > > > is derived from the luminosity of the radiant Sun and any

> > > > spiritual

> > > > > > blessings obtained by worshipping devatas of Swarga loka

are

> > > > easily

> > > > > > obtained by worshipping Sun as Paramatma.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > Using that equation we could say that Aditya, Shiva and

> > Agni are

> > > > > > > all Surya... Taking a line from your mail we are

actually

> > saying

> > > > > > > that Vishnu being an aditya is Surya?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Yes. Surya as ParamAtma is only ONE and manifests as

> > multitude of

> > > > > > Aditya, Shiva and Agni, depending upon the concept you

see him

> > > > > > aligned with, i.e. signs, or nakshatra or any other

divisions

> > > > > > respectively.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > Obviously both of us know better than that.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Now we do.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > nitish

> > > > > >

> > > > > > sohamsa

<sohamsa%40>

> > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > <sohamsa%40>,

> > > > > > Visti Larsen <visti@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > ??? ??? ??????

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Nitish, Namaskar

> > > > > > > Thank you for your reply.

> > > > > > > Surely Surya is not Ahamkara, thats like saying that

Rahu is

> > > > Durga.

> > > > > > > Using that equation we could say that Aditya, Shiva and

> > Agni are

> > > > > > all

> > > > > > > Surya... Taking a line from your mail we are actually

saying

> > > > that

> > > > > > Vishnu

> > > > > > > being an aditya is Surya? Obviously both of us know

better

> > than

> > > > > > that.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > See, the devatas reside in svarga loka and this

corresponds

> > to

> > > > the

> > > > > > > nakshatras. The grahas through their transit of the

> > nakshatras

> > > > are

> > > > > > > actually eclipsing them and thus certain forms of

devatas

> > come

> > > > as

> > > > > > > indicating by 1) the graha eclipsing. 2) the nakshatra

it

> > > > eclipses.

> > > > > > > Since nakshatras are the basis of the rasi chart, we can

> > find

> > > > based

> > > > > > on

> > > > > > > the state of a graha the actual devata represented by

it.

> > But

> > > > its

> > > > > > only a

> > > > > > > representation as the Grahas themselves are not devatas.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The graha which 'represents' the bondage of ahamkara is

> > Surya,

> > > > just

> > > > > > as

> > > > > > > the graha representing the bondage of the mind is Moon.

And

> > > > among

> > > > > > those

> > > > > > > born with Surya as atmakaraka we have grades of those

being

> > > > fully

> > > > > > > engrossed in ahamkara vs. having complete control of

> > ahamkara.

> > > > > > Divine

> > > > > > > souls like Vivekananda, Ramakrishna Paramahamsa and Sri

> > Krishna

> > > > > > being at

> > > > > > > one end of the scale. With fellows like Donald Trump,

Adolph

> > > > Hitler

> > > > > > > (exalted surya yuti AK) and others at the other end of

the

> > > > scale.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Now, to overcome these eight bondages, there are EIGHT

ways

> > to

> > > > look

> > > > > > at

> > > > > > > God through which we can be freed. For the Ahamkara we

must

> > > > look at

> > > > > > God

> > > > > > > as Paramatman. This is the remedy itself. And the

specific

> > form

> > > > of

> > > > > > Shiva

> > > > > > > who will help us realize this is Ishana for the Sun.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > So please don't make the equation that everyone with

Surya

> > > > > > atmakaraka is

> > > > > > > Paramatman. That would be quite delusional indeed...

Infact

> > the

> > > > > > concept

> > > > > > > of Paramatma is the means to which the Surya atmakaraka

> > will be

> > > > > > freed of

> > > > > > > his/her ahamkara.

> > > > > > > Looking forward to your reply.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Yours sincerely,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > --

> > > > > > > Visti Larsen - SJC Guru

> > > > > > > Jaimini SJC - Denmark

> > > > > > > email: visti@ <visti@>

> > > > > > > For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: http:/

/

> > > > > > srigaruda.com

> > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>

> > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>

> > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com> <http://

srigaruda.com

> > <http://srigaruda.com>>>>

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > yeeahoo_99 wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > || OM TAT SAT||

> > > > > > > > Dear Visti,

> > > > > > > > How do you prove that Ahamkara is represented by

Surya ?

> > > > Either

> > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > mean to say that Lord Krishna represents Ahamkara

going by

> > > > Gita

> > > > > > > > Chapter 10 verse 21:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > "Of the tweleve adityas I am vishnu, of all

luminaries the

> > > > radiant

> > > > > > > > Sun , of the seven Maruts I am marichi, and of the

> > > > constellations

> > > > > > I am

> > > > > > > > the Moon."

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Are you saying that Sura/Surya group of planets are

lead

> > by

> > > > Surya

> > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > Ahamkara?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Are you saying that the Vedas adoring Surya Narayan

as a

> > > > witness

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > all actions (Sakshi) is an individuality creating

Ahamkara

> > > > > > Principle

> > > > > > > > and not an impersonal transcendental intelligence

> > principle?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Please explain why Surya as Ahamkara should be

referred

> > to as

> > > > > > > > Paramatma, the soul of all and `Jagadaikha

chakshusay',

> > the

> > > > eye

> > > > > > of the

> > > > > > > > three worlds?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > > > nitish

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > sohamsa

> > <sohamsa%40>

> > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > > <sohamsa%40>,

> > > > > > > > Visti Larsen <visti@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > ??? ??? ??????

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Dear List, Namaskar

> > > > > > > > > Why hasn't anyone started talking about the eight

> > bondages

> > > > of

> > > > > > the atma?

> > > > > > > > > Ahamkara (surya), Manas (chandra), Prakriti (rahu),

> > Akasha

> > > > > > (guru), Agni

> > > > > > > > > (mangala), Jala (shukra), Vayu (shani) and Prithvi

> > (budha).

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > And how these eight bondages map into the eight

spokes

> > of

> > > > the

> > > > > > kala

> > > > > > > > > chakra, which are simultaneously the eight spokes

of the

> > > > > > anahata chakra.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Really any talk on the atma and its EIGHT karakas is

> > futile

> > > > > > without any

> > > > > > > > > of this.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Yours sincerely,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > --

> > > > > > > > > Visti Larsen - SJC Guru

> > > > > > > > > Jaimini SJC - Denmark

> > > > > > > > > email: visti@ <visti@>

> > > > > > > > > For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit:

> > > > > > > > http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>

> > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>

> > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com> <http://

srigaruda.com

> > <http://srigaruda.com>>> <http://

> > > > srigaruda.com

> > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>

> > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>>>

> > > > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>

> > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>

> > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com> <http://

srigaruda.com

> > <http://srigaruda.com>>>

> > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>

> > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>> <http://

> > srigaruda.com

> > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>>>>

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Promila Chitkara wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > Hello Sharat,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Do you not think that "serving others" comes

naturally

> > > > only

> > > > > > to a

> > > > > > > > > > handful people? There maybe people who want to

serve

> > their

> > > > > > families;

> > > > > > > > > > however, that is not selfless service in the true

> > sense of

> > > > > > the term.

> > > > > > > > > > Because we know very well that in happiness and

> > > > contentment

> > > > > > of our

> > > > > > > > > > families lies our happiness and growth! So it's

purely

> > > > > > selfish.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > P

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Sharat <gidoc@>

> > > > > > > > > > sohamsa

> > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > > > > > > Thursday, August 30, 2007 2:23:04 AM

> > > > > > > > > > Re: Re: Jupiter as AK (to

Tijanaji,

> > > > Nitish

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > v_reality)

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > ||Namah Shivaya||

> > > > > > > > > > Dear Sundeep,

> > > > > > > > > > Good observations, I was following this thread as

> > well but

> > > > > > really

> > > > > > > > > > found the ' ego ' bit coming in too quickly.

> > > > > > > > > > English words cant describe so well ' ahankar '

and '

> > > > aham'

> > > > > > which are

> > > > > > > > > > different and I agree that one cannot see this

only in

> > > > Sun AK.

> > > > > > > > However

> > > > > > > > > > as you say, Sun AK needs to learn to serve others

as

> > it

> > > > does

> > > > > > not come

> > > > > > > > > > naturally to them. And you cant take ' I ' away

from

> > them

> > > > so

> > > > > > easily

> > > > > > > > > > but perhaps if one wants to merge with Paramatma,

then

> > > > the '

> > > > > > I '

> > > > > > > > will

> > > > > > > > > > have to merge in to ' Him '.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Best

> > > > > > > > > > Sharat

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > -

> > > > > > > > > > ** vedicastrostudent

<vedicastrostudent@>

> > > > > > > > > > *To:* sohamsa@ .com

> > > > > > <sohamsa

> > <sohamsa%40>

> > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>>

> > > > > > > > > > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 29, 2007 8:56 PM

> > > > > > > > > > *Subject:* Re: Jupiter as AK (to

Tijanaji,

> > > > Nitish

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > v_reality)

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Dear Tijanaji and Nitish,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I have been reading your exchange with interest

in the

> > > > hope of

> > > > > > > > > > learning something new, but I find myself

disagreeing

> > > > subtly

> > > > > > > > in the

> > > > > > > > > > essence of what you say. In fact, deep down in the

> > > > exchange I

> > > > > > find

> > > > > > > > > > this statement made by "v_reality" which makes a

lot

> > of

> > > > sense

> > > > > > > > to me:

> > > > > > > > > > "Can this also be understood at a different level

as

> > the

> > > > > > > > effacement

> > > > > > > > > > of 'self' in a spiritual sense?".

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Here is my take - I have none of the scriptural

> > knowledge

> > > > you

> > > > > > both

> > > > > > > > > > have, only I have seen several Sun AK people: I

dont

> > > > think it

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > fair to say that Sun AK people are egotistic. See,

> > English

> > > > > > > > also has

> > > > > > > > > > a lot of words which have subtly different

meanings,

> > and

> > > > the

> > > > > > right

> > > > > > > > > > one has to be used. An egotistic person is one who

> > has a

> > > > > > > > exaggerated

> > > > > > > > > > sense of self-importance. Almost everyone in this

> > world

> > > > has

> > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > (and you are fooling yourself if you deny it), it

is

> > plain

> > > > > > > > wrong to

> > > > > > > > > > observe a person have Sun AK and simultaneously

> > observe

> > > > that

> > > > > > > > he also

> > > > > > > > > > has an exaggerated sense of self importance and

say

> > "yes,

> > > > > > that is

> > > > > > > > > > what the Sun AK does to him". I can cite hundreds

of

> > > > people I

> > > > > > know

> > > > > > > > > > who are very self important and DONT have Sun AK,

and

> > not

> > > > only

> > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > may not even have a strong Sun in their chart.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I personally think the only statement that can be

> > observed

> > > > > > > > > > repeatedly with Sun AK people is that they are

> > egocentric

> > > > i.e.

> > > > > > > > their

> > > > > > > > > > view of the world is based on the individual

rather

> > than

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > society. They may or may not be egotistical (i.e.

> > > > > > > > egocentricity does

> > > > > > > > > > not imply self importance) - the AK simply makes

them

> > go

> > > > > > through

> > > > > > > > > > experiences in life such that their core self is

> > tested.

> > > > How

> > > > > > they

> > > > > > > > > > respond to it depends probably on lots of other

> > > > astrological

> > > > > > > > > > factors. The only statement I can safely make,

based

> > on

> > > > pure

> > > > > > > > > > experience, is that Sun AK people are guided to

> > divinity

> > > > > > through

> > > > > > > > > > experiences of the self, consequently their view

is

> > > > > > egocentric.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I know one Sun AK woman (dont know if I can share

her

> > > > data)

> > > > > > > > who was

> > > > > > > > > > molested (by her own professor) and denied a

higher

> > degree

> > > > > > > > that she

> > > > > > > > > > worked hard for, then get married and then

divorced,

> > then

> > > > > > have her

> > > > > > > > > > mom die of cancer in a rather painful way, then

have

> > her

> > > > > > > > brother get

> > > > > > > > > > divorced in a messy lawsuit (and then leave her

too),

> > then

> > > > > > > > (she) get

> > > > > > > > > > married again and her husband develop terminal

cancer

> > very

> > > > > > soon

> > > > > > > > > > afterward. Net result: she cant seem to find a

strong

> > and

> > > > > > > > consistent

> > > > > > > > > > support outside of herself - she has become self

> > reliant

> > > > and

> > > > > > only

> > > > > > > > > > finds consistent happiness in meditation/reiki.

She is

> > > > > > probably

> > > > > > > > > > egotistical in some degree too, but not in any

> > outstanding

> > > > > > way at

> > > > > > > > > > all, and probably much less than all the people

around

> > > > her..

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Consequently, I really dispute the fact that Sun

AK

> > people

> > > > > > must

> > > > > > > > > > learn to "reduce their ego". That is simply a

general

> > > > lesson

> > > > > > > > for all

> > > > > > > > > > of mankind. Sun AK people's AK will guide them

towards

> > > > > > divinity

> > > > > > > > > > through experiences that make them focus on

> > themselves and

> > > > > > search

> > > > > > > > > > for the truth: now that's the statement I find

much

> > more

> > > > to

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > point.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Comments?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Thanks,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Sundeep

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com

> > > > > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>, nix nixen

> > <nix_nixen@

> > > > ..>

> > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > > > > Dear Nitish,

> > > > > > > > > > > Only from one simple statement of yours "It is

not

> > > > always

> > > > > > > > > > possible for me..." i read that your AK must be

> > nothing

> > > > less

> > > > > > than

> > > > > > > > > > Sun. Am i right? If yes, then i think i`m on the

right

> > > > way of

> > > > > > > > > > finding answers on my queries.

> > > > > > > > > > > Warm regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > Tijana

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > yeeahoo_99 <nitish.arya@ ...> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > Dear Tijana,

> > > > > > > > > > > Raja Yoga is the yoga of soul with paramatma -

deep/

> > > > shallow,

> > > > > > > > > > > material/spiritual - all kind of things have a

basis

> > > > only in

> > > > > > > > > > > paramatma. Thus, even Raja-bhanga yoga has a

basis

> > i.e.

> > > > > > > > separation

> > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > soul from paramatma (which is illusory only

though)

> > and

> > > > > > hence

> > > > > > > > > > > material/spiritual loss depending on the kind of

> > karma

> > > > > > involved.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > As the lord of a sign, a planet rules a 12th

part

> > of the

> > > > > > > > > > > consciousness, relatively . Thus, in part, it

> > becomes

> > > > its

> > > > > > > > > > > responsibility to guide the affairs of that

sign/

> > house

> > > > > > towards

> > > > > > > > > > > fulfillment. You may explore it further.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > It is not always possible for me to answer to

your

> > > > specific

> > > > > > > > > > queries.

> > > > > > > > > > > Hopefully, in time, you will discover the truth

of

> > your

> > > > > > queries.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > best regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > nitish

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com

> > > > > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>,

"tijanadamjanovic"

> > > > > > > > <nix_nixen@>

> > > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Nitish,

> > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, all must serve. The questions raised in

these

> > > > > > discussions

> > > > > > > > > > on Atma

> > > > > > > > > > > > karakas were on the specific way of serving.

> > > > > > > > > > > > If we say that Sun AK must learn principles of

> > artha

> > > > > > > > shastra to

> > > > > > > > > > serve,

> > > > > > > > > > > > the same stands for Ma and Ju AK? How to

> > > > differentiate? I

> > > > > > > > assume

> > > > > > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > > > > > are taking karakatvas of the houses into

account

> > also

> > > > > > > > (2nd, 6th,

> > > > > > > > > > 10th)?

> > > > > > > > > > > > The Sun/Raja gets service on the throne, but

> > regarding

> > > > > > > > > > spirituality

> > > > > > > > > > > > and Atma this is related to real Raja yoga

whose

> > > > deepest

> > > > > > > > meaning

> > > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > > inseparable from 10th house of indriyas (refer

> > > > > > Vivekananda) .

> > > > > > > > > > Only in

> > > > > > > > > > > > that sense we can talk of Janaka or the

perfect

> > King.

> > > > What

> > > > > > > > artha

> > > > > > > > > > > > shastra principles you had in mind?

> > > > > > > > > > > > Warm regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > Tijana

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com

> > > > > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>,

> > > > > > "yeeahoo_99" <nitish.arya@ >

> > > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > || Om TAT SAT ||

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Tijana,

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > To fulfill ones own dharma is what you

> > probably

> > > > had in

> > > > > > > > mind

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > mentioning Gita in this context.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Context that was intended is Gita Chapter

> > 3,sloka

> > > > 22.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > All must work if the lord of the cosmos has

> > chosen

> > > > to

> > > > > > work.

> > > > > > > > > > Thus,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > there is nothing specific that only SUN AK

has

> > to

> > > > > > > > "serve", all

> > > > > > > > > > AKs

> > > > > > > > > > > > > "serve".

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > But, are you implying that Sun AK gives a

> > person

> > > > akin

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > Janaka?!

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, Sun AK gives a person akin to Janaka -

> > > > jivanmukta -

> > > > > > > > > > provided

> > > > > > > > > > > > > enough effort has been put in.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you determing dharma based on this?

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > No, Sun AK need not be 9th lord.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Will you advise Sun AK people to take

> > > > Dhartharastra

> > > > > > as an

> > > > > > > > > > example!

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > The attitude of service is seen from 6th

house.

> > Leo

> > > > > > being a

> > > > > > > > > > dharma

> > > > > > > > > > > > > trikona sign fulfills its purpose of service

> > through

> > > > > > 10th

> > > > > > > > > > house of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Artha, which is 6th from it. So a Sun AK

should

> > > > learn

> > > > > > > > > > principles of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > artha shastra to serve.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, again, what Raja will hardly ever do

is

> > > > serving.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > All souls have to "Serve" only as there is

> > nothing

> > > > else

> > > > > > > > to be

> > > > > > > > > > done

> > > > > > > > > > > > > in the three worlds because Krishna has

already

> > > > achieved

> > > > > > > > > > everything

> > > > > > > > > > > > > that is there to achieve in the three

> > worlds(refer

> > > > > > Gita).

> > > > > > > > > > Those who

> > > > > > > > > > > > > do not serve, are reborn to learn to serve,

> > > > whatever be

> > > > > > > > their

> > > > > > > > > > AK.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda` s Dharm bhava lord was

Sun

> > AK

> > > > in

> > > > > > > > lagna in

> > > > > > > > > > Dhanus

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > (extraordinary combination for unselfish

> > giving by

> > > > > > > > itself).

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > But do you think it`s a coincidence that

His

> > > > Master

> > > > > > had

> > > > > > > > > > exalted

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn in 9th

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > bhava and Rahu AK? What do you think, why

even

> > > > Swami

> > > > > > > > needed

> > > > > > > > > > these?

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > One is not re-born after exhausting his

karma/

> > > > desires.

> > > > > > Thus,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > vivekananda (Rahu PiK) came here to exhaust

his

> > > > > > remaining

> > > > > > > > > > karma/

> > > > > > > > > > > > > desires with Ramakrishna (Rahu AK). There

is no

> > more

> > > > > > > > substance

> > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > this than a past-life karmic relationship of

> > the two

> > > > > > which

> > > > > > > > > > continued

> > > > > > > > > > > > > in this birth also.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > NITISH

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com

> > > > > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>,

> > "tijana" <nix_nixen@>

> > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Nitish,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your elaboration would be even more

brilliant

> > if

> > > > you

> > > > > > had

> > > > > > > > > > just answer

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > my question.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > To fulfill ones own dharma is what you

> > probably

> > > > had in

> > > > > > > > mind

> > > > > > > > > > > > > mentioning

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gita in this context. But, are you

implying

> > that

> > > > Sun

> > > > > > AK

> > > > > > > > > > gives a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > person akin to Janaka?! Are you determing

> > dharma

> > > > > > based on

> > > > > > > > > > this? Will

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > you advise Sun AK people to take

> > Dhartharastra as

> > > > an

> > > > > > > > > > example!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, again, what Raja will hardly ever do

is

> > > > serving.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda` s Dharm bhava lord was

Sun

> > AK

> > > > in

> > > > > > > > lagna in

> > > > > > > > > > Dhanus

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > (extraordinary combination for unselfish

> > giving by

> > > > > > > > itself).

> > > > > > > > > > But do

> > > > > > > > > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > think it`s a coincidence that His Master

had

> > > > exalted

> > > > > > > > Saturn

> > > > > > > > > > in 9th

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > bhava and Rahu AK? What do you think, why

even

> > > > Swami

> > > > > > > > needed

> > > > > > > > > > these?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Warm regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tijana

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com

> > > > > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>,

> > > > > > "yeeahoo_99" <nitish.arya@ >

> > > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > || Om Tat Sat ||

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Tijana,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What is the thing that Raja will

hardly

> > ever

> > > > do?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read up Gita, arthashastra and ancient

texts

> > > > that

> > > > > > show

> > > > > > > > > > what

> > > > > > > > > > > > > all a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raja has to do to ensure that his

subjects

> > are

> > > > > > protected

> > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > progress

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > on the upward evolutionary path. Look at

> > > > krishna,

> > > > > > Janaka

> > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ChandraGupta Maurya and you will

understand

> > > > whatever

> > > > > > > > > > that "hardly

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ever do" equates to.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Otherwise, going by your statement, AK

> > wouldn't

> > > > do

> > > > > > > > > > anything

> > > > > > > > > > > > > being

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the king of the horoscope and the rest

of

> > the

> > > > > > > > karakas (BK,

> > > > > > > > > > PiK,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Puk,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GK) i.e. his subjects will follow the

suit!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, the mantra is "Shiva jnane

Jiva

> > > > > > Seva" (serving

> > > > > > > > > > every

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > being as the full manifestation of God)

that

> > > > > > > > Narendranath

> > > > > > > > > > > > > received

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from his Master Ramakrishna who had Sun

in

> > > > Aquarius.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Being Sun AK, Vivekananda had developed

> > peculiar

> > > > > > > > sharpness

> > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > perception and assimilation that

empowered

> > him

> > > > with

> > > > > > > > > > unusual power

> > > > > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pick up 'the gems' from the talks of his

> > Master.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With Sun in Sagittarius, he could, as

> > compared

> > > > to

> > > > > > > > others,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > easily

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'see' the deep meaning in the words of

Sri

> > > > > > Ramakrishna,

> > > > > > > > > > even

> > > > > > > > > > > > > though

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the Master told them in simple language

(Aq

> > > > Sun),

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > never as

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > preaching.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With its dispositor Jupiter in Libra,

> > gradually

> > > > > > Swami

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Vivekananda

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > started assimilating tips and hints on

> > practical

> > > > > > Vedanta

> > > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > > > could

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > benefit individual and collective life

in

> > the

> > > > > > society.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "...For spiritual persons Sun as AK

> > should be

> > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > Jupiter`s

> > > > > > > > > > > > > signs

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (Shiva jnane...), otherwise it`s very

hard

> > > > > > task..."

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Putting up statements like you have

done is

> > not

> > > > > > > > wise. Sri

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Yukteswar

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Giri, has Sun AK placed in Aries and had

> > > > attained

> > > > > > > > highest

> > > > > > > > > > level

> > > > > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > spirituality. Even if Sun AK is placed

in

> > > > Libra, it

> > > > > > > > could

> > > > > > > > > > be the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > most

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > spiritual person.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AK shows the spiritual power of a sign

over

> > the

> > > > > > rest of

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > signs/

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets in the chart and this spiritual

> > power

> > > > > > manifests

> > > > > > > > > > through

> > > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dispositor of AK and its sign placement.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NITISH

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com

> > > > > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>,

> > "tijana" <nix_nixen@>

> > > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Su,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun is the Self. Its qualities are

those

> > of

> > > > Raja

> > > > > > > > (karaka

> > > > > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > first house, lord of the 5th, dig

bala in

> > > > 10th).

> > > > > > > > What is

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > thing

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that Raja will hardly ever do? The

lesson

> > > > that has

> > > > > > > > to be

> > > > > > > > > > learnt

> > > > > > > > > > > > > by

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun AK is serving, in the highest

sence it

> > > > gives

> > > > > > > > "Shiva

> > > > > > > > > > jnane

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Shiva

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > seva" (service of man as God)-the

divine

> > > > lesson

> > > > > > > > given to

> > > > > > > > > > us by

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vivekananda (Sun AK). For spiritual

> > persons

> > > > Sun

> > > > > > as AK

> > > > > > > > > > should be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter`s signs (Shiva jnane...),

> > otherwise

> > > > it`s

> > > > > > very

> > > > > > > > > > hard task.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Warm regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tijana

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com

> > > > > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>, "v

> > > > reality" <reality_v@>

> > > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Bojan-ji

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for your reply. Much

> > appreciated.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If I may ask another query re Sun

AK.

> > The

> > > > lesson

> > > > > > > > to be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > learnt

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun AK,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is the reduction of ego. Can this

also

> > be

> > > > > > understood

> > > > > > > > > > at a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > different level

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as the effacement of 'self' in a

> > spiritual

> > > > > > sense?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Su

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Bojan Vidakovic <janbovid@>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >sohamsa@ .com

> > > > > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >sohamsa@ .com

> > > > > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Re: Jupiter as

AK

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Wed, 22 Aug 2007 08:33:22 -

0700

> > (PDT)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >HARE RAMA KRISHNA

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Dear Su

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I would add that with Gu AK person

> > have to

> > > > be

> > > > > > very

> > > > > > > > > > humble to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > all

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > spiritual

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >techers and natives, like priests,

> > gurus,

> > > > > > teachers.

> > > > > > > > > > With Ma

> > > > > > > > > > > > > AK

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > person must

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >practise Ahumsa (nonviolence) ,

with

> > Ch the

> > > > > > > > native is

> > > > > > > > > > always

> > > > > > > > > > > > > very

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > caring,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >and gives emotions but the problem

is

> > that

> > > > they

> > > > > > > > never

> > > > > > > > > > get

> > > > > > > > > > > > > enough

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >themselves from other people. The

> > person

> > > > must

> > > > > > learn

> > > > > > > > > > lessons

> > > > > > > > > > > > > also

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >people represented with AK. Ch /

> > mother,

> > > > Sy /

> > > > > > > > father

> > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > everything those

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >grahas represent.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Take few examples of people you

know

> > and

> > > > see

> > > > > > it in

> > > > > > > > > > praxix.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Best

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wishes,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Bojan

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Hari Om Tat Sat

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@ >

wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hraum namah adityaya

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Su,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Person should use a lot of glass

and

> > sing/

> > > > hum

> > > > > > > > > > melodies.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rafal Gendarz

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > email: rafal@

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > v reality napisaÅ,(a): Dear

Rafalji/

> > > > Members

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is an interesting discussion.

> > Could

> > > > we

> > > > > > > > discuss

> > > > > > > > > > other

> > > > > > > > > > > > > AKs

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > too. I read

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in an article that natives with

Moon

> > as AK

> > > > > > need to

> > > > > > > > > > learn

> > > > > > > > > > > > > to be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > more

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >caring

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and loving to others. But I know

of a

> > > > chart

> > > > > > where

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > native

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > already

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >by

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nature very caring, loving and

> > concerned

> > > > about

> > > > > > > > > > others

> > > > > > > > > > > > > since

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > young. So

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >what

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is the lesson to be learnt?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Su

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@

> > wp.pl>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >sohamsa@

.com

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >sohamsa@ .com

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Re: Jupiter

as AK

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Wed, 22 Aug 2007 10:24:14

+0200

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *hraum namah adityaya*

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Dear LN Kumar,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >With Ju AK person should learn to

> > respect

> > > > > > others

> > > > > > > > > > > > > knowledge

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >tradition,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >should be ready to learn from

others.

> > > > When Ju

> > > > > > > > is in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > kendra to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AK or is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >AK

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >himself then native thinks that

he

> > knows

> > > > > > > > everything

> > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > now

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can share

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >His knowledge with everybody.

Good

> > > > teachers

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > course

> > > > > > > > > > > > > comes

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >AK-Jupiter- Natives, as this

graha

> > will

> > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > naturally in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karakamsa.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >With MA AK person should learn to

> > > > catalyze

> > > > > > > > energies

> > > > > > > > > > > > > through

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ZEN, TAI-CHI

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >or

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >other techniques, while with JU

AK

> > person

> > > > > > should

> > > > > > > > > > learn to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > more humble

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >regarding knowledge. Of course

person

> > > > can be

> > > > > > > > > > focused on

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter-

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karakas

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >like kids, spirituality, law,

luck

> > etc.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Mahadasa of AK brings lesson to

us

> > so its

> > > > > > not so

> > > > > > > > > > easy

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > materially but

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >inspiring spiritually, so if

Surya

> > is in

> > > > good

> > > > > > > > > > placement

> > > > > > > > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AK

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > then it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >can

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >be not so bad as person is

spiritual.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Rafal Gendarz

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >narender kumar napisa?(a):

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>Dear Gurujans,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>Kindly throw some light on

Jupiter

> > as

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>Atmakaraka and having Jupiter as

> > > > mahadasha.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>Respectful Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>LN Kumar

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>__________ __ _________

_________

> > > > _________

> > > > > > > > > > _________

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________ _

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>Take the Internet to Go:

Go

> > puts

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > Internet in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > your

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pocket:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >mail,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>news, photos & more.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>http://mobile. <http://mobile./

> > <http://mobile./>

> > > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>>

> > > > > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./> <http://mobile./

> > <http://mobile./>>>

> > > > > > > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./> <http://mobile./

> > <http://mobile./>> <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>

> > > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>>>>> /

> > > > > > > > > > go?refer= 1GNXIC

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >><http://mobile. <http://

mobile./

> > <http://mobile./>

> > > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>>

> > > > > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./> <http://mobile./

> > <http://mobile./>>>

> > > > > > > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./> <http://mobile./

> > <http://mobile./>> <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>

> > > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>>>>> /

> > > > > > > > > > go?refer= 1GNXIC>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________

> > _________

> > > > > > > > _________

> > > > > > > > > > > > > _________

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Advertisement: It's simple! Sell

your

> > car

> > > > for

> > > > > > just

> > > > > > > > > > $30 at

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > CarPoint.com.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >au

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://a.ninemsn. <http://

a.ninemsn./

> > <http://a.ninemsn./>

> > > > <http://a.ninemsn./ <http://a.ninemsn./>>

> > > > > > <http://a.ninemsn./ <http://a.ninemsn./> <http://

a.ninemsn./

> > <http://a.ninemsn./>>>

> > > > > > > > <http://a.ninemsn./ <http://a.ninemsn./>

> > <http://a.ninemsn./ <http://a.ninemsn./>> <http://

> > a.ninemsn./

> > > > <http://a.ninemsn./ <http://a.ninemsn./>>>>> com.au/b.

> > > > > > > > > > aspx?URL= http%3A%2F%

> > > > > > > > > > > > > 2Fsecure%

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >2Dau%2Eimrworldw ide%2Ecom%

> > 2Fcgi%2Dbin%

> > > > > > 2Fa%2Fci%

> > > > > > > > > > 5F450304%

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2Fet%

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5F2%

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >2Fcg%5F801459% 2Fpi%5F1004813%

> > > > 2Fai%5F859641 &

> > > > > > > > > > _t=762955845 &

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _r=tig_AUG07 &

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_m=EXT

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Best wishes,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SJC Guru Bojan Vidakovic

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for articles and consultations

visit

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >http://www.jataveda s.com

> > > > > > > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/ <http://www.jatavedas.com/

>

> > <http://www.jatavedas.com/ <http://www.jatavedas.com/>>

> > > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/ <http://www.jatavedas.com/>

> > <http://www.jatavedas.com/ <http://www.jatavedas.com/>>>

> > > > > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/ <http://www.jatavedas.com/>

> > <http://www.jatavedas.com/ <http://www.jatavedas.com/>>

> > > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/ <http://www.jatavedas.com/>

> > <http://www.jatavedas.com/ <http://www.jatavedas.com/>>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >----------- --------- --------- ---

-

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Choose the right car based on your

> > needs.

> > > > > > Check out

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Autos

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > new Car

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Finder tool.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________

> > _________

> > > > > > > > _________ _

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Advertisement: Make shopping

exciting.

> > Find

> > > > > > what you

> > > > > > > > > > want at

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > www.eBay.com. au

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://a.ninemsn. com.au/ <http://

> > > > > > a.ninemsn.com.au/

> > > > > > > > <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/ <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/>

> > <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/ <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/>>

> > > > <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/ <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/>

> > <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/ <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/>>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b.aspx?URL=http% 3A%2F%2Frover%

> > 2Eebay%2Ecom%

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2Frover%2F1% 2F705%2D10129%

2D5668%2D323%

> > > > > > 2F4%2F%3Fid%

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3D6 & _t=763807330 & _r=email_ taglines_

> > > > EBAY & _m=EXT

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ---

> > > > > > > > > > > Take the Internet to Go: Go puts the

Internet

> > in

> > > > your

> > > > > > > > > > pocket: mail, news, photos & more.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > ---------------------

----

> > > > > > > > > > Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel

answers

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://

> > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://>

> > answers./

> > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./

> > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./>>

> > > > dir/

> > > > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://

answers./

> > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./>

> > dir/

> > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./

dir/

> > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./dir/

>>>

> > > > > >

> > > >

> >

_ylc=X3oDMTI5MGx2aThyBF9TAzIxMTU1MDAzNTIEX3MDMzk2NTQ1MTAzBHNlYwNCQUJwaWxsYXJfTklfMzYwBHNsawNQcm9kdWN0X3F1ZXN0aW9uX3BhZ2U-?link=list & sid=396545469

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://

> > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://>

> > answers./

> > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./

> > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./>>

> > > > dir/

> > > > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://

answers./

> > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./>

> > dir/

> > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./

dir/

> > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./dir/

>>>

> > > > > >

> > > >

> >

_ylc=X3oDMTI5MGx2aThyBF9TAzIxMTU1MDAzNTIEX3MDMzk2NTQ1MTAzBHNlYwNCQUJwaWxsYXJfTklfMzYwBHNsawNQcm9kdWN0X3F1ZXN0aW9uX3BhZ2U-?link=list & sid=396545469>>from

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > someone who knows.

> > > > > > > > > > Answers - Check it out.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

हरे राम कृष्ण॥

Dear Nitish, Namaskar

Don't worry, i will reply by the end of the week.

Yours sincerely,

 

 

--

 

Visti Larsen - SJC Guru

Jaimini SJC - Denmark

email: visti

For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: http://srigaruda.com

 

 

yeeahoo_99 wrote:

 

 

|| OM TAT SAT ||

Dear Visti,

Hope you are fine. You dont seem to be replying to my mail. Is it

so badly written?

My only objective was to bring out the truth for all including

myself, but, in doing so, the strong and long held beliefs of people

get hurt.

Am happy, that while writing these mails, i learnt much more than

what is visible, and this learning cannot happen in isolation. The

reason for my joining this list is to stay in touch.

Somehow, i always felt that people dont respond to the

mails/queries i send. May be it happens with everybody.

 

Just wanted to finish with this one incomplete statement from my

last mail:

 

"Karma is the only bandhana that Gita mentions, as Sri Krishna

couldn't have possibly missed/ignored the rest of the bandhanas as it

is His Apara-Prakriti.

 

Sun is beyond the three gunas of Prakriti - as u rightly pointed out

with reference to sattvic, rajasic, and tamasic buddhi. It exists as

the indestructible Cosmic intelligence aspect of God in creation (TAT

- refer chapter 15) and is one of the three beings there are, the

destructible being (OM) and the uttermost being, Purushottama (SAT)!

 

For purposes of learning souls on path to self-knowledge, Sun, in

Jyotish, is seen as identified with Sattvic Guna destructible Prakriti

for the deepest reasons**, thus creating a cause for it to be eclipsed

by Tamo Guna of Rahu (Ahamkara causing bodily rebirth).

 

In truth, there is never an eclipse for Sun because the Cosmic

intelligence is indestructible and hence never does it stop

functioning/invisible/eclipsed during a cycle of creation. An

eclipse

of Sattva Guna of Sun can only have the deepest learning for the

jeevatma as the acquisition of ultimate wisdom to go beyond the Gunas

of destructible Prakriti."

 

** A sharp intelligence is a blessing of God and a privilege given to

Human, that wise use for upliftment to Godhood, mediocre use for

fulfillment of their desires and ignorant use for self-destruction.

 

regards,

nitish

 

sohamsa ,

Visti Larsen <visti wrote:

>

> -------

> Re: Jupiter as AK (to Visti, Tijanaji, Nitish and

v_reality)

> Sun, 09 Sep 2007 14:41:01 -0000

> csna25 <csna25

> Visti Larsen <visti

>

>

> || OM TAT SAT ||

> Dear Visti,

> > Visti: Why does it include those who practice the

sohamsa-mantra

> yajna?

> Sohamsa is the mantra of breath - initiation a soul receives from

> Sri Krishna to progress on the path to evolution. This is the

> uninterrrupted only living parampara there is.

>

> >Visti: How can I know what Krishna meant? Thats why i cited

Adi

> >Shankaras commentary, and now you are giving your own

commentary.

> > Should i believe in your commentary or that of Adi Shankara?

>

> Chapter 6 sloka 5:

> uddharedatmanatmanam natmanamavasadayet

> atmaiva hyatmano bandhuratmaiva ripuratmanah -5-

>

> > You are equating Buddhi with a spiritual faculty, and this is

your

> > basis for equating Buddhi with the Sun. Your intent is clear

in

> > this. Then why didn't you equate Buddhi with Jupiter or Ketu?

 

> > Surely Ketu is much more spiritual than Sun.

>

> In eightfold-Prakriti, Jupiter represents Akash Tattwa.

> Ketu is not there in the scheme of Eightfold-Apara-prakriti,

as it

> would rather show a state after liberation from Prakriti.

> Rahu, being the literal/zodiacal/mathematical opposite of

Ketu,

> has Zero-affinity towards liberation of a being (as you wrote, it

> causes rebirth).

> Sun is the only graha that performs the role of Buddhi as a

> spiritual faculty.

>

> > Visti: Again, just because a PURE buddhi enhances ones

spiritual

> > efforts, it doesn't mean it is signified by the Sun.

>

> In the eight-fold scheme, Sun as PURE buddhi directs spiritual

> effort after Rahu has done its role of bringing the soul back to a

 

> physical body.

>

> > Again, the basis of this statement itself is doubtful, due to

which

> > you would have to equate Ketu with Buddhi based on your

> > statements. Based on what you have written how can you

classify

> > Buddhi as a Bandhana?

>

> Karma is the only bandhana that Gita mentions.

>

> > Visti: I don't think my Jyotish Guru is wrong. Also how do

you

> > justify that the bandhana has to be decided based on wisdom

of the

> > graha? Since when do Moon and Rahu not make spiritual

efforts? Moon

> > in eighth house makes the person meditate and perform

kundalini

> > yoga, whilst Rahu in tenth makes the person go on pilgrimages

and

> > visit tirthas. The Sun doesn't even meditate, he just has

faith and

> > goes to temple. Its Ketu who causes meditation, and its in

the

> > junction with Jupiter that he does so through a Guru, and its

 

> > junction with Venus does so indendently.

>

> Sun forms Shiva yoga with Ketu, and is exalted in constellation of

 

> Ketu. Mind doesnt make any spiritual effort but needs to be

> controlled (6:34).

>

> From KathaUpanishad (III.Up.I.2.3. -13 & 14.)

> 'The Chariot of the Body': The five horses represent the five

senses

> (tongue, eyes, nose, ears and skin). The rein symbolises the mind,

 

> the driver is the intelligence while the passenger is the jeevatma.

>

> http://fixedreference.org/2006-Wikipedia-CD-Selection/images/46/

> 4642.jpg

>

> In Mahabharata war scenario, Sri Krishna as driver of Arjunas'

> chariot is the guiding intelligence of the jeevatma and controller

of

> the reins of the mind. This is the most perfect example of Guru-

> Shishya relationship there is!

>

> regards,

> Nitish

>

> sohamsa ,

Visti Larsen <visti@> wrote:

> >

> > ??? ??? ??????

> >

> > Dear Nitish, Namaskar

> > Thank you for your reply.

> >

> > You wrote:

> > / Gita is the commentary of Parampara of Sri Krishna -

Arjuna, which

> > includes everybody that practices the sohamsa mantra yajna.

Thus,

> you

> > can benefit by reading it as it is the only living parampara

till

> > date.

> > /

> >

> > Visti: Why does it include those who practice the

sohamsa-mantra

> yajna?

> >

> > The Gita revived the Parampara's through Adi Shankara, as he

was

> the one

> > who brought it to the world, and it is one of his bhasyas.

But the

> Gita

> > itself is not a parampara, but the cause of all the other

> paramparas to

> > exist. Each Shankaracharya Mutt is a Parampara in itself and

> continues

> > to preach the vedas.

> >

> > Your statement denounces the importance of these Mutts. Are

you

> > practicing the Sohamsa mantra-yajna through Sri Sri Ravi

Shankar?

> He was

> > taught by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi and its well known that the

origin

> of

> > Maharishi is the Jyotirmutt, thus making your Parampara the

same.

> >

> > /You wrote:

> > A person who isn't fit to distinguish between what he ought or

> > ought not to do; do you think he is fit to practice

spirituality?

> Sri

> > Krishna is not really telling arjuna to practice materiality

> anyways.

> > /

> >

> > /If you don't understand the role of buddhi from this sloka,

Gita is

> > full of slokas that talk about buddhi as a spiritual faculty

(Sun),

> > unlike Ahamkara (Rahu)./

> >

> > Visti: How can I know what Krishna meant? Thats why i cited

Adi

> > Shankaras commentary, and now you are giving your own

commentary.

> Should

> > i believe in your commentary or that of Adi Shankara?

> >

> > You are equating Buddhi with a spiritual faculty, and this is

your

> basis

> > for equating Buddhi with the Sun. Your intent is clear in

this.

> > Then why didn't you equate Buddhi with Jupiter or Ketu?

Surely Ketu

> is

> > much more spiritual than Sun.

> >

> > /Chapter 3 sloka 1:

> > Arjuna asks:

> > "If Buddhi is greater than karma, Janardana

> > Then why give me the order to be in this intense fight?"

> >

> > Chapter 3 sloka 42:

> > Sri Krishna replies:

> > "In the body the senses are superior

> > >From the senses the mind is greater

> > >From the mind the intellect (buddhi) is superior and

> > Beyond the intellect is the Atman as the witness"/

> >

> > Visti: The word used in this sloka is not 'witness' but

'superior'.

> Also

> > the word 'Atma' is not from the translation, but from

> Shankaracharyas

> > commentary. The Atma is superior to the intellect, and in

this case

> it

> > refers to Angirasa's definition of Antaratma, and is called

'the

> self'

> > according to Shankara.

> >

> > /Chapter 4 sloka 5 tells that many births of mine and yours

have

> > passed.

> > Chapter 6 sloka 43:

> >

> > "Acquiring wisdom (BUDDHI-SAMYOGAM) revived from the previous

body

> > thereafter he endeavors once again for perfection."/

> >

> > Visti: Again, just because a PURE buddhi enhances ones

spiritual

> > efforts, it doesn't mean it is signified by the Sun.

> >

> > /> One could just as easily justify that since the main

cause of

> > > rebirth is Rahu, the stronger the bondage of Rahu, so

also the

> > > stronger the bondage of Buddhi and thus the eclipse

> > > of the Sun/spirituality.

> >

> > Do you still have doubts that Sun refers to Buddhi? Rahu

(Ahamkara)

> > and Moon (manas) don't make spiritual efforts.

> > Rahu cannot be considered to be wise, in this context, that

its

> > "rebirth-causing-//bondage-quality" be used to

achieve perfection

> and

> > liberation in this birth. It is only good at helping a

rebirth, not

> > helping to liberate - thus it is not doing the function of

Buddhi by

> > 6:43.

> > /

> >

> > Visti: I don't think my Jyotish Guru is wrong. Also how do

you

> justify

> > that the bandhana has to be decided based on wisdom of the

graha?

> > Since when do Moon and Rahu not make spiritual efforts? Moon

in

> eighth

> > house makes the person meditate and perform kundalini yoga,

whilst

> Rahu

> > in tenth makes the person go on pilgrimages and visit

tirthas. The

> Sun

> > doesn't even meditate, he just has faith and goes to temple.

Its

> Ketu

> > who causes meditation, and its in the junction with Jupiter

that he

> does

> > so through a Guru, and its junction with Venus does so

> independently.

> >

> > Again, the basis of this statement itself is doubtful, due to

which

> you

> > would have to equate Ketu with Buddhi based on your

statements.

> Based

> > on what you have written how can you classify Buddhi as a

Bandhana?

> > Rahu is extremely useful at helping liberation... In

fact i can

> justify

> > how each planet can help liberation, but thats not a fair

basis for

> > justifying their Bandhanas.

> >

> > /How many of the 6 billion people, all born due to Rahu-bond

are

> > using this birth to make a spiritual effort?

> > /

> >

> > Visti: How about Ramakrishna Paramahamsa? How about Srila

> Prabhupada?

> > They are the causes of the largest spiritual missions in

India and

> > abroad. I think they made great spiritual effort. They have

Rahu as

> > atmakaraka!

> >

> > Sun on the other hand causes problems with ahamkara in the

person.

> > Citing Sanjay Rath: <http://www.srath.com/lessons/advanced/ak2.htm>

> >

> > "*Planets as ätmakäraka: *1. Sun as AK indicates the native

> has to

> > learn to overcome his ego and should become humble." refer:

> > http://srath.com/lessons/advanced/ak.htm

> >

> > "Ahankära refers to its independent identity and is the false

ego

> (*not

> > Freud's ego*). This is false because the identity is not

permanent

> and

> > it is an ego as it helps to identify the object and

differentiate

> it

> > from the other bodies/creatures of its class or family. This

is

> > represented by the Sun in astrology." refer:

> > http://www.srath.com/lessons/advanced/ak2.htm

> >

> > Visti: note the careful reference to /ego /not being equated

with

> > Freud's understanding of Ego.

> >

> > /Chapter 7 verse 10:

> > "O Arjuna, try to understand me as the eternal origin of all

living

> > entities. I am the (BuddhirBuddhiMataA/ /smi)

intelligence in the

> > intelligent, and the brilliance of the brilliant."

> >

> > Chapter 10 sloka 10:

> > "One who is always united with Me (see 6:18) and who

meditates upon

> Me

> > with love -- I bestow him with buddhiyoga (meaning stillness)

by

> > which, he is the one who attains Me."

> >

> > Chapter 15 sloka 20:

> > (Etad Buddhva Buddhimaan syat KritaKrityascha bharata)

> > "Understand with your intelligence this most secret science

that I

> > have explained to you and become wise, and thereupon be

successful

> in

> > all your duties."

> >

> > Chapter 18 sloka 30:

> > " One who knows engagement and withdrawal, work and work not

to be

> > done, fear and non-fear, bondage and liberation -- this type

of

> > (Buddhi) intellect is sattvic."

> >

> > Rahu cannot be Sattvic!

> > /

> >

> > Visti: Does that mean Sun can be tamasic? How about all those

who

> don't

> > have satva budhi? Are you saying they don't have a buddhi

because

> its

> > not satvic? Your justification doesn't hold water.

> >

> > /Chapter 18, sloka 57:

> > "Dedicate all action to Me from the (chetasa)heart, extinguish

> > wholly, be devoted to Me, take recourse in buddhi-yoga and

keep your

> > consciousness always on Me."

> >

> > 18:30, 10:10 -- there is nothing like Ahamkara Yoga, but

Buddhi-

> > Yoga. With Sun as ParamAtma, one would have a yoga with him

as

> Buddhi.

> >

> > Thus, if buddhi is all that important all along from 2nd to

18th

> > chapter, in Gita, lets understand it as a function of Surya

with

> > Sattvic Buddhi. /

> >

> > Visti: If Satvic Budhi is the Sun, then is Sun also

Tamasic/impure

> > Budhi? You are only dealing with the highest aspect of Buddhi

in

> these

> > slokas, and not speaking of Buddhi as a bandhana.

> >

> > Since our entire discussion revolves around Sun, Moon and

Rahu

> which are

> > the causes of the eclipse, i will quote a translation of

> Dakshinamurti

> > Stotra:

> >

> > rähugrastadiväkarendusadåço mäyäsamäcchädanät

sanmätraù

> > karaëopasaàharaëato yo'bhütsuñuptaù pumän |

> >

> > prägasväpsamiti prabodhasamaye yaù pratyabhijïäyate tasmai

> > çrégurumürtaye nama idaà çrédakñiëämürtaye || 6||

> >

> > The Sun (atma) is eclipsed when the Moon (Mana) conjoins it

and the

> Moon

> > is in the latitude as the orbital plane of the earth where

the

> > intersection points are the nodes (Rahu & Ketu). It is

this Rahu

> that is

> > said to cause the eclipse. Simiarly, the Rahu of our lives is

our

> own

> > desires and sice Rahu is a node of the Moon (mana), the

desires are

> the

> > creation of the mind. It is the coming together or

conjunction of

> the

> > atma (Sun), mana (Moon) and desires (Rahu) that causes an

eclipse

> or

> > birth itself.

> >

> > Visti: The key lies in this, namely that Rahu being a node of

the

> Moon

> > is the cause of desires created in the mind, and very much

deals

> with

> > the mind.

> >

> > Further; ATMA means self. There are three types of atma

according

> to

> > Angirasa, namely: Atma, Antaratma and Paramatma. The first is

the

> body

> > itself and its senses. The second is the abode of the

individual

> soul or

> > Jeevatma, and finally the Paramatma is God.

> >

> > So when Parasara and other seers stated that the Sun is the

atma,

> they

> > also refer to the entire gamut of definitions of the self.

Ahamkara

> is a

> > function of 'thinking' one is the self, and is the bondage

that

> caused

> > the Jeevatma to separate from the Paramatma to begin with!

This is

> > defined in the cosmology where the ahamkara merged with the

various

> > Gunas to cause the bhutas, etc. to manifest.

> >

> > Looking forward to your reply.

> > Yours sincerely,

> >

> > --

> > Visti Larsen - SJC Guru

> > Jaimini SJC - Denmark

> > email: visti@ <visti@>

> > For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: http://

> srigaruda.com

> > <http://srigaruda.com>

> >

> > yeeahoo_99 wrote:

> > >

> > > || OM TAT SAT ||

> > > Dear Visti,

> > > Gita is the commentary of Parampara of Sri Krishna -

Arjuna, which

> > > includes everybody that practices the sohamsa mantra

yajna. Thus,

> you

> > > can benefit by reading it as it is the only living

parampara till

> > > date.

> > >

> > > > Visti: I don't have this translation. Is this an

inference?

> > > > The last two words used here are: buddhinaashaat-praNashyati

=

> > > > destruction of buddhi causes one to be

lost/dissapear/vanish/

> > > perish. > Did you infer that it was spirituality

which perished?

> To

> > > this Adi

> > > > Shankara comments: /Indeed, a man continues to be

himself so

> long

> > > as > his mind remains fit to distinguish between what

he ought to

> and

> > > > ought not to do./

> > >

> > > A person who isn't fit to distinguish between what he

ought or

> > > ought not to do; do you think he is fit to practice

spirituality?

> Sri

> > > Krishna is not really telling arjuna to practice

materiality

> anyways.

> > >

> > > If you don't understand the role of buddhi from this

sloka, Gita

> is

> > > full of slokas that talk about buddhi as a spiritual

faculty

> (Sun),

> > > unlike Ahamkara (Rahu).

> > >

> > > Chapter 3 sloka 1:

> > > Arjuna asks:

> > > "If Buddhi is greater than karma, Janardana

> > > Then why give me the order to be in this intense fight?"

> > >

> > > Chapter 3 sloka 42:

> > > Sri Krishna replies:

> > > "In the body the senses are superior

> > > >From the senses the mind is greater

> > > >From the mind the intellect (buddhi) is superior and

> > > Beyond the intellect is the Atman as the witness"

> > >

> > > Chapter 4 sloka 5 tells that many births of mine and

yours have

> > > passed.

> > > Chapter 6 sloka 43:

> > >

> > > "Acquiring wisdom (BUDDHI-SAMYOGAM) revived from the

previous body

> > > thereafter he endeavors once again for perfection."

> > >

> > > > One could just as easily justify that since the

main cause of

> > > > rebirth is Rahu, the stronger the bondage of Rahu,

so also the

> > > > stronger the bondage of Buddhi and thus the eclipse

> > > > of the Sun/spirituality.

> > >

> > > Do you still have doubts that Sun refers to Buddhi? Rahu

 

> (Ahamkara)

> > > and Moon (manas) don't make spiritual efforts.

> > > Rahu cannot be considered to be wise, in this context,

that its

> > > "rebirth-causing-bondage-quality" be used to

achieve perfection

> and

> > > liberation in this birth. It is only good at helping a

rebirth,

> not

> > > helping to liberate - thus it is not doing the function

of Buddhi

> by

> > > 6:43.

> > > How many of the 6 billion people, all born due to

Rahu-bond are

> > > using this birth to make a spiritual effort?

> > >

> > > Chapter 7 verse 10:

> > > "O Arjuna, try to understand me as the eternal origin of

all

> living

> > > entities. I am the (BuddhirBuddhiMataAsmi)

intelligence in the

> > > intelligent, and the brilliance of the brilliant."

> > >

> > > Chapter 10 sloka 10:

> > > "One who is always united with Me (see 6:18) and who

meditates

> upon Me

> > > with love -- I bestow him with buddhiyoga (meaning

stillness) by

> > > which, he is the one who attains Me."

> > >

> > > Chapter 15 sloka 20:

> > > (Etad Buddhva Buddhimaan syat KritaKrityascha bharata)

> > > "Understand with your intelligence this most secret

science that I

> > > have explained to you and become wise, and thereupon be

> successful in

> > > all your duties."

> > >

> > > Chapter 18 sloka 30:

> > > " One who knows engagement and withdrawal, work and work

not to be

> > > done, fear and non-fear, bondage and liberation -- this

type of

> > > (Buddhi) intellect is sattvic."

> > >

> > > Rahu cannot be Sattvic!

> > >

> > > Chapter 18, sloka 57:

> > > "Dedicate all action to Me from the (chetasa)heart,

extinguish

> > > wholly, be devoted to Me, take recourse in buddhi-yoga

and keep

> your

> > > consciousness always on Me."

> > >

> > > 18:30, 10:10 -- there is nothing like Ahamkara Yoga, but

Buddhi-

> > > Yoga. With Sun as ParamAtma, one would have a yoga with

him as

> Buddhi.

> > >

> > > Thus, if buddhi is all that important all along from 2nd

to 18th

> > > chapter, in Gita, lets understand it as a function of

Surya with

> > > Sattvic Buddhi.

> > >

> > > regards,

> > > Nitish

> > >

> > > sohamsa

 

> <sohamsa%40>,

> > > Visti Larsen <visti@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > ??? ??? ??????

> > > >

> > > > Dear Nitish, Namaskar

> > > > Thank you for your mail.

> > > > You mention a Parampara below. Please provide the

name of the

> > > Parampara

> > > > and its commentary for our benefit so we can read

more. In

> > > answering

> > > > your points, i will be using the Gita's commentary

by Adi

> Shankara

> > > -

> > > > translated by Svami Gambhirananda.

> > > >

> > > > /1.) About Buddhi:

> > > > Chapter 2 sloka 52, 53 -->

> > > > "When Buddhi penetrates beyond darkness of

delusion, then you

> shall

> > > > be indifferent about the matters heard and

to-be-heard./

> > > >

> > > > /."

> > > > "..Buddhi becoming securely anchored in soul bliss,

one attains

> > > yoga."

> > > > /

> > > >

> > > > /Chapter 2 sloka 62,63 -->

> > > > DECAY OF BUDDHI causes ANNIHILATION of spiritual

life./

> > > >

> > > > Visti: I don't have this translation. Is this an

inference? The

> > > last two

> > > > words used here are: buddhinaashaat-praNashyati

= destruction of

> > > buddhi

> > > > causes one to be lost/dissapear/vanish/perish.

Did you infer

> that

> > > it was

> > > > spirituality which perished? To this Adi Shankara

comments: /

> > > Indeed, a

> > > > man continues to be himself so long as his mind

remains fit to

> > > > distinguish between what he ought to and ought not

to do./

> > > >

> > > > /NOTE:- Jyotish tells us that Sprituality is

related to Sun more

> > > than

> > > > Rahu, as seen in those with AK in kendra to Sun.

> > > > /

> > > >

> > > > Visti: All eight of the bandhanas once tightened

cause loss of

> > > > spirituality, not just Buddhi. If a student has so

much ahamkara

> > > that he

> > > > believes he knows everything, then he will not read

books and

> again

> > > > spirituality is destroyed. If a one is fully

engrossed in his/

> her

> > > desire

> > > > for procreation then again the spirituality is

ruined. The

> latter

> > > is

> > > > explained in Chapter 2, sloka 60. So all eight

bandhas cause

> this

> > > > problem, and not just Buddhi.

> > > >

> > > > /Chapter 2 sloka 65 -->

> > > > Buddhi of the blissful man soon becomes firmly

established (in

> the

> > > > self).

> > > >

> > > > Chapter 5 sloka 20 -->

> > > > "The Knower of spirit, abiding in Supreme being,

with STHIRA

> BUDDHI,

> > > > free from delusion, is thus neither jubiliant at

pleasant

> > > experiences

> > > > nor downcast by unpleasant experiences./ /"/

> > > >

> > > > Visti: You are very right to give Buddhi such a

high pedestal

> among

> > > the

> > > > eight bandhas, because indeed the worst Bandha is

that of Buddhi

> > > just as

> > > > Rahu is the main karaka for all Bandhana of the

soul. Overcoming

> > > this,

> > > > all the other bandhas break easily. This is the

reason Rahu is

> the

> > > main

> > > > cause of rebirth. This is why the Shiva purana

> (Satirudrasamhita)

> > > states

> > > > that the Shiva form who is able to control the

bondage of Rahu

> is

> > > > Pashupati. Shiva then explains that Pashupati is

responsible for

> > > > breaking all wordly bondages (pashupAshanikR^intanaM).

> > > > According to Shiva, Ishana is the form of Shiva

which controls

> > > Surya.

> > > > More below.

> > > >

> > > > /2.) About AHAMKARA:

> > > > Chapter 2 sloka 71 -->

> > > > "That person realizes peace who, relinquishing all

desires,

> exists

> > > > without craving and is UNIDENTIFIED WITH AHAMKARA

(mortal ego)

> and

> > > > its sense of mine-ness."/

> > > >

> > > > Visti: Adi Shankara comments that this actually

refers to one

> > > becoming

> > > > one with Brahman i.e. enlightenment. Among the

forms of Shiva

> which

> > > > specifically give this enlightenment

(sandIpayajjagatsarvam -

> > > enlightens

> > > > the entire universe), we see that the form of

Ishana is talked

> > > about.

> > > > Note that the word used is /SandIpa/, and this

happens to be the

> > > Guru of

> > > > Sri Krishna (SandIpani).

> > > > However, this sloka from the Gita is not strictly

for ahamkara,

> but

> > > for

> > > > all the eight bandhas.

> > > >

> > > > /3.) About MANAS JOINED WITH BUDDHI:

> > > > Chapter 2 sloka 51:

> > > > "Those whose minds are joined to wisdom

(BUDDHI-YUKTA)/ /,

> having

> > > > abandoned action's fruit, Freed thus from bondage

to rebirth,

> they

> > > > attain the state beyond sorrow."

> > > >

> > > > Also refer Chapter 13 slokas 1 - 11:

> > > >

> > > > "...Indifference to sense objects, And absence of

egotism

> > > > (NIRHAMKARA)/ /;...Constant evenmindedness in

Desired and

> undesired

> > > > events...With single-minded yoga,...Constant in

knowledge of the

> > > Self,

> > > > Seeing the goal of truth-knowledge--

> > > > This is said to be true knowledge.

> > > > The contrary is ignorance."

> > > >

> > > > Chapter 8 sloka 9 refers

> > > > "He who meditates on the Seer, the Ruler, The

ancient, subtler

> than

> > > > the atom, support Of all, Whose form is

inconceivable and

> RADIANT

> > > > LIKE THE SUN and beyond darkness."

> > > >

> > > > This proves beyond doubt and questioning the

central role of

> > > > BUDDHI in the spiritual growth of a devotee like

ARJUNA. Now,

> this

> > > > role is not played by AHAMKARA or MANAS

independently.

> > > > Thus, Sun as dispeller of darkness is the only

correct

> assignment of

> > > > the role of Buddhi.

> > > > /

> > > >

> > > > Visti: Your inference implies that only one of the

eight bandhas

> > > deal

> > > > with spiritual growth or its lacking. One could

just as easily

> > > justify

> > > > that since the main cause of rebirth is Rahu, the

stronger the

> > > bondage

> > > > of Rahu, so also the stronger the bondage of Buddhi

and thus the

> > > eclipse

> > > > of the Sun/spirituality. Thus for this reason we

worship Sri

> > > > Dakshinamurti on the day of the eclipse to be

released from this

> > > > Bandhana and get enighenment. This is what the

Sadhu's practice.

> > > >

> > > > Note the word Buddhi is used in three different

ways in the gita

> > > > according to Adi Shankara and Gambhiranandas

translation, viz.

> i)

> > > buddhi

> > > > as a bandha, ii) samatva buddhi (pure buddhi) and

iii) buddhi as

> > > > enlightenment, and cannot be mixed arbitrarily.

> > > >

> > > > /Getting back to the eightfold Prakriti, Sun

(Buddhi), Moon

> (MANAS)

> > > > and Rahu (Ahamkara) is the only correct version as

per the

> > > >

> > > > GURU-SHISYA PARAMPARA

> > > > from

> > > > Sri Krishna-Arjuna/

> > > >

> > > > The reason why in Jyotish most associate the Sun

with Ahamkara

> in

> > > > general terms, is because of the story of Vivasvan

and Sanjna

> > > > (memory/recollection). In the story Vivasvans

rays become so

> > > bright, and

> > > > he became so knowledgeable (and self absorbed) that

Sanjna left

> and

> > > only

> > > > left her shadow (false recollection) behind.

> > > >

> > > > He only could reunite with Sanjna once his father

in-law reduced

> > > the

> > > > rays of Vivasvan, and he could himself take on a

form that

> Sanjna

> > > was

> > > > pleased with.

> > > > So the story of Vivasvan/Surya tells us about this

nature of

> > > Ahamkara.

> > > >

> > > > Looking forward to your reply.

> > > > Yours sincerely,

> > > >

> > > > --

> > > > Visti Larsen - SJC Guru

> > > > Jaimini SJC - Denmark

> > > > email: visti@ <visti@>

> > > > For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit:

http://

> > > srigaruda.com

> > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>

> > > >

> > > > yeeahoo_99 wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > || OM TAT SAT||

> > > > > Dear Visti,

> > > > > Lets look at what Sri Krishna tells Arjuna in

Gita about

> Buddhi,

> > > > > Manas and Ahamkara.

> > > > >

> > > > > 1.) About Buddhi:

> > > > > Chapter 2 sloka 52, 53 -->

> > > > > "When Buddhi penetrates beyond darkness of

delusion, then you

> > > shall

> > > > > be indifferent about the matters heard and

to-be-heard.."

> > > > > "..Buddhi becoming securely anchored in soul

bliss, one

> attains

> > > yoga."

> > > > >

> > > > > Chapter 2 sloka 62,63 -->

> > > > > DECAY OF BUDDHI causes ANNIHILATION of

spiritual life.

> > > > >

> > > > > NOTE:- Jyotish tells us that Sprituality is

related to Sun

> more

> > > than

> > > > > Rahu, as seen in those with AK in kendra to

Sun.

> > > > >

> > > > > Chapter 2 sloka 65 -->

> > > > > Buddhi of the blissful man soon becomes firmly

established

> (in the

> > > > > self).

> > > > >

> > > > > Chapter 5 sloka 20 -->

> > > > > "The Knower of spirit, abiding in Supreme

being, with STHIRA

> > > BUDDHI,

> > > > > free from delusion, is thus neither jubiliant

at pleasant

> > > experiences

> > > > > nor downcast by unpleasant experiences."

> > > > >

> > > > > 2.) About AHAMKARA:

> > > > > Chapter 2 sloka 71 -->

> > > > > "That person realizes peace who, relinquishing

all desires,

> exists

> > > > > without craving and is UNIDENTIFIED WITH

AHAMKARA (mortal

> ego) and

> > > > > its sense of mine-ness."

> > > > >

> > > > > 3.) About MANAS JOINED WITH BUDDHI:

> > > > > Chapter 2 sloka 51:

> > > > > "Those whose minds are joined to wisdom

(BUDDHI-YUKTA), having

> > > > > abandoned action's fruit, Freed thus from

bondage to rebirth,

> they

> > > > > attain the state beyond sorrow."

> > > > >

> > > > > Also refer Chapter 13 slokas 1 - 11:

> > > > >

> > > > > "...Indifference to sense objects, And absence

of egotism

> > > > > (NIRHAMKARA);...Constant evenmindedness

in Desired and

> undesired

> > > > > events...With single-minded yoga,...Constant

in knowledge of

> the

> > > Self,

> > > > > Seeing the goal of truth-knowledge--

> > > > > This is said to be true knowledge.

> > > > > The contrary is ignorance."

> > > > >

> > > > > Chapter 8 sloka 9 refers

> > > > > "He who meditates on the Seer, the Ruler, The

ancient, subtler

> > > than

> > > > > the atom, support Of all, Whose form is

inconceivable and

> RADIANT

> > > > > LIKE THE SUN and beyond darkness."

> > > > >

> > > > > This proves beyond doubt and questioning the

central role of

> > > > > BUDDHI in the spiritual growth of a devotee

like ARJUNA. Now,

> this

> > > > > role is not played by AHAMKARA or MANAS

independently.

> > > > > Thus, Sun as dispeller of darkness is the only

correct

> assignment

> > > of

> > > > > the role of Buddhi.

> > > > >

> > > > > Getting back to the eightfold Prakriti, Sun

(Buddhi), Moon

> (MANAS)

> > > > > and Rahu (Ahamkara) is the only correct

version as per the

> > > > >

> > > > > GURU-SHISYA PARAMPARA

> > > > > from

> > > > > Sri Krishna-Arjuna

> > > > >

> > > > > regards,

> > > > > Nitish

> > > > >

> > > > > sohamsa

 

> <sohamsa%40>

> > > <sohamsa%40>,

> > > > > Visti Larsen <visti@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ??? ??? ??????

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Nitish, Namaskar

> > > > > > Thank you for this mail.

> > > > > > I will be answering the main points of

your mail. The main

> > > points

> > > > > being

> > > > > > the foundation of the facts/statements

you present.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > /You wrote:

> > > > > > So lets begin with Eightfold-Prakriti of

Krishna, your

> reference

> > > > > > point itself is incorrect. Gita Chapter 7

sloka 4 states:...

> > > > > > /

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I cannot disagree, as i had wrongly

written prakriti

> instead of

> > > > > buddhi.

> > > > > > Siva purana confirms this:

> > > > > > */Siva Purana, Vishvesvara Samhita,4/*

> > > > > > /Prakriti /comprises of buddhi, ahamkara,

gunaatmaka and

> > > > > panchatanmatra.

> > > > > > All these combined are called Prakriti.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > /You wrote:

> > > > > > Neither the five tattwas, Buddhi nor

Manah can be assigned

> to

> > > Rahu

> > > > > > and thus Ahamkara is the only thing that

can logically be

> > > assigned

> > > > > to

> > > > > > Rahu. So the correct version of eightfold

representation of

> > > Prakriti

> > > > > > is:...

> > > > > > /

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Mana and Buddhi can indeed both be

attributed to Rahu, as

> Rahu

> > > is

> > > > > well

> > > > > > known to show the desires of the mind.

Here the Parampara

> comes

> > > to

> > > > > our

> > > > > > help and specifically defines Buddhi to

be assigned to Rahu,

> > > > > whereas

> > > > > > Mana and Ahamkara have been assigned to

Moon and Sun

> > > respectively.

> > > > > So

> > > > > > why does Sun represent Ahamkara?

> > > > > > aham = self. kaara=causative/doer.

The cause of self in

> other

> > > words.

> > > > > > Monier Williams translates this as:

> > > > > > /m. conception of one's individuality ,

self-consciousness

> > > ChUp. & c.

> > > > > > the making of self , thinking of self ,

egotism MBh. & c./

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Where Rahu caused the desire which led to

rebirth, it is a

> given

> > > > > that

> > > > > > the Sun is the actual creator of

everything, and with that

> > > creation

> > > > > the

> > > > > > ahamkaara is one of the negative effects

of the same. But

> this

> > > is

> > > > > just

> > > > > > my justification the traditions teachings.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > /You wrote:

> > > > > > There is ONLY ONE bondage and not Eight

of them. Ahamkara

> > > doesn't

> > > > > > cause bondage of atma as you have

written, but Karma alone

> > > causes

> > > > > > bondage of atma, and is not a part of

eightfold-prakriti

> > > referred

> > > > > > above. Refer Gita Chapter 2 verse 39 as

follows:

> > > > > > /

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The sloka you qoute is right, but your

inference... Heres

> what

> > > Siva

> > > > > > Purana says:/

> > > > > > /

> > > > > >

> > > > > > */Siva Purana, Vishvesvara Samhita,2/*

> > > > > > Because of remaining in eight types of

bandhana, the soul is

> > > called

> > > > > > /Jeeva/. When a person is freed from

these bondages, the

> person

> > > is

> > > > > > called /Mukta.

> > > > > > /

> > > > > >

> > > > > > /*Siva Purana, Vishvesvara Samhita,3*

> > > > > > /Emancipation is the control of these

bondages of prakriti

> etc.

> > > One

> > > > > > trapped in these is called /Jeeva/, and

one freed from them

> is

> > > > > called

> > > > > > /Mukta./

> > > > > >

> > > > > > */Siva Purana, Vishvesvara Samhita,4/*

> > > > > > /Prakriti /comprises of buddhi, ahamkara,

gunaatmaka and

> > > > > panchatanmatra.

> > > > > > All these combined are called Prakriti.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > */Siva Purana, Vishvesvara Samhita,5/*

> > > > > > These eight bondages are the body. The

activities of this

> body

> > > are

> > > > > > called the /karmas/.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Later in sloka 8 Suta explains that due

to karmas the soul

> is

> > > bound

> > > > > by

> > > > > > these eight bondages. So these are indeed

the bondages and

> they

> > > are

> > > > > > created due to Karma. The issue being

that the bondages

> > > themselves

> > > > > can

> > > > > > lead one to recreate the same karma again

and again, just

> as one

> > > > > desire

> > > > > > leads to a thousand more.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > /You wrote:

> > > > > > ParamAtma is a collective of all the

atmas. Concept of Chara

> > > > > > karakas is only indicative of the

separate identity

> (Ahamkara)

> > > of

> > > > > > soul in the realm of relationships - led

by the AK as a king

> > > leads a

> > > > > > kingdom. So AK has the job of

understanding the realm of

> > > > > > relationships with other atmas and

thereby help the

> attainment

> > > of

> > > > > > individuals' understanding of ParamAtma./

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Yes, once Sun atmakaraka's understand

this within

> themselves,

> > > they

> > > > > > should teach it to others.

> > > > > > Looking forward to your reply.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Yours sincerely,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > --

> > > > > > Visti Larsen - SJC Guru

> > > > > > Jaimini SJC - Denmark

> > > > > > email: visti@ <visti@>

> > > > > > For consultations, free mp3's and

articles visit: http://

> > > > > srigaruda.com

> > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>

 

> > > <http://srigaruda.com

<http://srigaruda.com>>>

> > > > > >

> > > > > > yeeahoo_99 wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > || Om TAT SAT ||

> > > > > > > Dear Visti,

> > > > > > > Thanks for a good mail.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Surely Surya is not Ahamkara,

thats like saying that

> Rahu is

> > > > > Durga.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > How are you so sure about it? The

question still remains

> > > > > unanswered

> > > > > > > i.e. how do you prove that Surya

represents Ahamkara?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > The graha which 'represents'

the bondage of ahamkara is

> > > Surya.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > This brings up another question:

i.e. if there is a

> bondage of

> > > > > > > Ahamkara at all?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Ahamkar is referred in Gita chapter

3, verse 27 as

> follows:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > "All activities are being enacted by

the senses of the

> > > (Prakriti)

> > > > > > > material nature without exception;

but the unrealized,

> > > deluded by

> > > > > > > (AhamKara) false identification of

being the body, thus

> > > thinks:

> > > > > "I am

> > > > > > > the doer"

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Ahamkara (surya), Manas

(chandra), Prakriti (rahu),

> > > > > Akasha(guru),

> > > > > > > > Agni(mangala), Jala

(shukra), Vayu (shani) and Prithvi

> > > (budha)

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > So lets begin with

Eightfold-Prakriti of Krishna, your

> > > reference

> > > > > > > point itself is incorrect. Gita

Chapter 7 sloka 4 states:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > "Earth, water, fire, air, ether,

Manah, Buddhi, and

> Ahamkara;

> > > thus

> > > > > > > these are the eightfold divisions of

my Prakriti."

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Neither the five tattwas, Buddhi nor

Manah can be

> assigned to

> > > Rahu

> > > > > > > and thus Ahamkara is the only thing

that can logically be

> > > > > assigned to

> > > > > > > Rahu. So the correct version of

eightfold representation

> of

> > > > > Prakriti

> > > > > > > is:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Buddhi (surya), Manah (chandra),

Ahamkara (rahu),

> > > Akasha(guru),

> > > > > > > Agni(mangala), Jala (shukra),

Vayu (shani) and Prithvi

> (budha)

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Now, to overcome these eight

bondages, there are EIGHT

> ways

> > > to

> > > > > look

> > > > > > > > at God through which we can be

freed. For the Ahamkara

> we

> > > must

> > > > > > > > look at God as Paramatman.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > There is ONLY ONE bondage and not

Eight of them. Ahamkara

> > > doesn't

> > > > > > > cause bondage of atma as you have

written, but Karma alone

> > > causes

> > > > > > > bondage of atma, and is not a part

of eightfold-prakriti

> > > referred

> > > > > > > above. Refer Gita Chapter 2 verse 39

as follows:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > "O Arjuna! What has been declared to

you this spiritual

> > > > > intelligence

> > > > > > > (Buddhih) according to the Samkhya

(the path of

> knowledge).

> > > Now

> > > > > > > listen to the teaching of Yoga (the

path of selfless

> action

> > > > > combined

> > > > > > > with devotion) by practising which

the bondage of Karma is

> > > > > overcome."

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Also, Chapter 3 verse 9 verifies

that Karma causes

> bondage:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > "O son of Kunti! In this world all

actions, unless they

> are

> > > done

> > > > > as

> > > > > > > an offering to God (or as Yajna),

become causes of

> bondage.

> > > > > > > Therefore, work for the sake of God

without personal

> > > attachments."

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Chapter 3 verse 31 cross-verfies it

as follows:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > "Whoever follow this teaching of

mine, with their minds

> full

> > > of

> > > > > faith

> > > > > > > and free from disparagement, they

also are released from

> the

> > > > > bondage

> > > > > > > of reactions from Actions (Karma)."

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > That liberation is attained by

knowing the correct way of

> > > acting

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > given in Chapter 4 verse 16:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > "What is (karma) action and what is

(akarma) 'non-

> action', is

> > > a

> > > > > > > subject regarding which even the

wise are perplexed. I

> shall

> > > > > > > therefore speak to you about

(Karma)work, by knowing which

> > > one is

> > > > > > > liberated from evil (or the life of

bondage in Samsara)"

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The reason for liberation is written

as Chapter 5 verse 3:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > "It should be known, O mighty-armed

one! That one who

> neither

> > > > > > > disdains nor desires fruits of

actions, should be known

> as one

> > > > > > > established in renunciation.

Certainly, that person being

> free

> > > > > from

> > > > > > > all dualities is easily liberated

from bondage."

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > For the Ahamkara we must look

at God as Paramatman.

> This is

> > > the

> > > > > > > > remedy itself. And the specific

form of Shiva

> > > > > > > > who will help us realize this

is Ishana for the Sun.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Please understand that Ahamkara is

not a disease that we

> look

> > > for

> > > > > > > remedies to it. It is the eightfold

prakriti of Krishna.

> > > > > Otherwise,

> > > > > > > mind, buddhi, and pancha-tattwas

will also need to be

> > > remedied.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > And among those born with Surya

as atmakaraka we have

> > > grades of

> > > > > > > > those being fully engrossed in

ahamkara vs. having

> complete

> > > > > control

> > > > > > > > of ahamkara.

> > > > > > > I am not sure what you mean by

complete control of

> Ahamkara,

> > > > > > > because one who has complete control

of his manas and has

> > > buddhi

> > > > > > > devoted to Krishna - realizes his

divine nature of

> > > > > "AhamBrahmaAsmi"

> > > > > > > and gets freed from the bondage of

Karma.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Divine souls like Vivekananda,

Ramakrishna

> > > > > > > > Paramahamsa and Sri Krishna

being at one end of the

> scale.

> > > With

> > > > > > > > fellows like Donald Trump,

Adolph Hitler (exalted surya

> > > yuti AK)

> > > > > > > >and others at the other end of

the scale.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Liberation is caused by the

development of divine/demoniac

> > > nature,

> > > > > > > Chapter 16 Verse 5:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > "The divine nature is considered the

cause of liberation

> and

> > > the

> > > > > > > demoniac nature the cause of

bondage. Grieve not, O son of

> > > Pandu!

> > > > > You

> > > > > > > are born of the divine nature."

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > So please don't make the

equation that everyone with

> Surya

> > > > > > > > atmakaraka is Paramatman. That

would be quite delusional

> > > > > indeed...

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Even as paramatman is Omnipresent,

it is not possible to

> say

> > > that

> > > > > > > any mortal being is apart from

paramatman, whether it be

> > > Surya AK

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > a specific context. In any case, no

such equation about

> > > > > > > Atmakaraka and Paramatma has been

made by me.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The only question asked is about how

"Surya" represents

> > > Ahamkara,

> > > > > > > devoid of any Chara Karaka Status

whatsoever. You should

> have

> > > > > read my

> > > > > > > mail more thoroughly to have not

missed the point that was

> > > being

> > > > > made.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > ParamAtma is a collective of all the

atmas. Concept of

> Chara

> > > > > > > karakas is only indicative of the

separate identity

> > > (Ahamkara) of

> > > > > > > soul in the realm of relationships -

led by the AK as a

> king

> > > > > leads a

> > > > > > > kingdom. So AK has the job of

understanding the realm of

> > > > > > > relationships with other atmas and

thereby help the

> > > attainment of

> > > > > > > individuals' understanding of

ParamAtma.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Finally, about the points you made:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > As proved earlier, Surya as

representing Buddhi of the

> eight-

> > > fold

> > > > > > > Prakriti of Krishna - is referred to

as ParamAtma in a

> chart

> > > by

> > > > > > > Jyotish Texts, whatever be the Chara

AtmaKaraka. That

> Buddhi/

> > > > > > > intelligence in creatures is Krishna

is verified by Gita

> > > Chapter

> > > > > 10,

> > > > > > > sloka 22:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > "Of the Vedas, I am the Sama Veda;

among the Devas, I am

> > > Indra; of

> > > > > > > the senses, I am the mind; and in

living beings, I am

> > > > > intelligence."

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > See, the devatas reside in

svarga loka and this

> corresponds

> > > to

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > nakshatras.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Jyotish tells that constellations

are overlorded by

> luminary

> > > Moon

> > > > > > > and Moon derives its luminosity from

Sun. Therefore, as a

> > > > > consequence

> > > > > > > the concept of devatas associated

with the swarga of

> > > > > constellations

> > > > > > > is derived from the luminosity of

the radiant Sun and any

> > > > > spiritual

> > > > > > > blessings obtained by worshipping

devatas of Swarga loka

> are

> > > > > easily

> > > > > > > obtained by worshipping Sun as

Paramatma.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Using that equation we could

say that Aditya, Shiva and

> > > Agni are

> > > > > > > > all Surya... Taking a line from

your mail we are

> actually

> > > saying

> > > > > > > > that Vishnu being an aditya is

Surya?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Yes. Surya as ParamAtma is only ONE

and manifests as

> > > multitude of

> > > > > > > Aditya, Shiva and Agni, depending

upon the concept you

> see him

> > > > > > > aligned with, i.e. signs, or

nakshatra or any other

> divisions

> > > > > > > respectively.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Obviously both of us know

better than that.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Now we do.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > > nitish

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > sohamsa

 

> <sohamsa%40>

> > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > <sohamsa%40>,

> > > > > > > Visti Larsen <visti@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > ??? ??? ??????

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Nitish, Namaskar

> > > > > > > > Thank you for your reply.

> > > > > > > > Surely Surya is not Ahamkara,

thats like saying that

> Rahu is

> > > > > Durga.

> > > > > > > > Using that equation we could

say that Aditya, Shiva and

> > > Agni are

> > > > > > > all

> > > > > > > > Surya... Taking a line from

your mail we are actually

> saying

> > > > > that

> > > > > > > Vishnu

> > > > > > > > being an aditya is Surya?

Obviously both of us know

> better

> > > than

> > > > > > > that.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > See, the devatas reside in

svarga loka and this

> corresponds

> > > to

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > nakshatras. The grahas through

their transit of the

> > > nakshatras

> > > > > are

> > > > > > > > actually eclipsing them and

thus certain forms of

> devatas

> > > come

> > > > > as

> > > > > > > > indicating by 1) the graha

eclipsing. 2) the nakshatra

> it

> > > > > eclipses.

> > > > > > > > Since nakshatras are the basis

of the rasi chart, we can

> > > find

> > > > > based

> > > > > > > on

> > > > > > > > the state of a graha the actual

devata represented by

> it.

> > > But

> > > > > its

> > > > > > > only a

> > > > > > > > representation as the Grahas

themselves are not devatas.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > The graha which 'represents'

the bondage of ahamkara is

> > > Surya,

> > > > > just

> > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > the graha representing the

bondage of the mind is Moon.

> And

> > > > > among

> > > > > > > those

> > > > > > > > born with Surya as atmakaraka

we have grades of those

> being

> > > > > fully

> > > > > > > > engrossed in ahamkara vs.

having complete control of

> > > ahamkara.

> > > > > > > Divine

> > > > > > > > souls like Vivekananda,

Ramakrishna Paramahamsa and Sri

> > > Krishna

> > > > > > > being at

> > > > > > > > one end of the scale. With

fellows like Donald Trump,

> Adolph

> > > > > Hitler

> > > > > > > > (exalted surya yuti AK) and

others at the other end of

> the

> > > > > scale.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Now, to overcome these eight

bondages, there are EIGHT

> ways

> > > to

> > > > > look

> > > > > > > at

> > > > > > > > God through which we can be

freed. For the Ahamkara we

> must

> > > > > look at

> > > > > > > God

> > > > > > > > as Paramatman. This is the

remedy itself. And the

> specific

> > > form

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > Shiva

> > > > > > > > who will help us realize this

is Ishana for the Sun.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > So please don't make the

equation that everyone with

> Surya

> > > > > > > atmakaraka is

> > > > > > > > Paramatman. That would be quite

delusional indeed...

> Infact

> > > the

> > > > > > > concept

> > > > > > > > of Paramatma is the means to

which the Surya atmakaraka

> > > will be

> > > > > > > freed of

> > > > > > > > his/her ahamkara.

> > > > > > > > Looking forward to your reply.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Yours sincerely,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > --

> > > > > > > > Visti Larsen - SJC Guru

> > > > > > > > Jaimini SJC - Denmark

> > > > > > > > email: visti@ <visti@>

> > > > > > > > For consultations, free mp3's

and articles visit: http:/

> /

> > > > > > > srigaruda.com

> > > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>

 

> > > <http://srigaruda.com

<http://srigaruda.com>>

> > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>

<http://

> srigaruda.com

> > > <http://srigaruda.com>>>>

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > yeeahoo_99 wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > || OM TAT SAT||

> > > > > > > > > Dear Visti,

> > > > > > > > > How do you prove that

Ahamkara is represented by

> Surya ?

> > > > > Either

> > > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > > mean to say that Lord

Krishna represents Ahamkara

> going by

> > > > > Gita

> > > > > > > > > Chapter 10 verse 21:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > "Of the tweleve adityas I

am vishnu, of all

> luminaries the

> > > > > radiant

> > > > > > > > > Sun , of the seven Maruts

I am marichi, and of the

> > > > > constellations

> > > > > > > I am

> > > > > > > > > the Moon."

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Are you saying that

Sura/Surya group of planets are

> lead

> > > by

> > > > > Surya

> > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > Ahamkara?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Are you saying that the

Vedas adoring Surya Narayan

> as a

> > > > > witness

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > all actions (Sakshi) is an

individuality creating

> Ahamkara

> > > > > > > Principle

> > > > > > > > > and not an impersonal

transcendental intelligence

> > > principle?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Please explain why Surya

as Ahamkara should be

> referred

> > > to as

> > > > > > > > > Paramatma, the soul of all

and `Jagadaikha

> chakshusay',

> > > the

> > > > > eye

> > > > > > > of the

> > > > > > > > > three worlds?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > > > > nitish

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > sohamsa

 

> > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>,

> > > > > > > > > Visti Larsen

<visti@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > ??? ??? ??????

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Dear List, Namaskar

> > > > > > > > > > Why hasn't anyone

started talking about the eight

> > > bondages

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > the atma?

> > > > > > > > > > Ahamkara (surya),

Manas (chandra), Prakriti (rahu),

> > > Akasha

> > > > > > > (guru), Agni

> > > > > > > > > > (mangala), Jala

(shukra), Vayu (shani) and Prithvi

> > > (budha).

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > And how these eight

bondages map into the eight

> spokes

> > > of

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > kala

> > > > > > > > > > chakra, which are

simultaneously the eight spokes

> of the

> > > > > > > anahata chakra.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Really any talk on

the atma and its EIGHT karakas is

> > > futile

> > > > > > > without any

> > > > > > > > > > of this.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Yours sincerely,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > --

> > > > > > > > > > Visti Larsen - SJC

Guru

> > > > > > > > > > Jaimini SJC - Denmark

> > > > > > > > > > email: visti@

<visti@>

> > > > > > > > > > For consultations,

free mp3's and articles visit:

> > > > > > > > > http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>

 

> > > <http://srigaruda.com

<http://srigaruda.com>>

> > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>

<http://

> srigaruda.com

> > > <http://srigaruda.com>>>

<http://

> > > > > srigaruda.com

> > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>

 

> > > <http://srigaruda.com

<http://srigaruda.com>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com

<http://srigaruda.com>

 

> > > <http://srigaruda.com

<http://srigaruda.com>>

> > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>

<http://

> srigaruda.com

> > > <http://srigaruda.com>>>

> > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>

 

> > > <http://srigaruda.com

<http://srigaruda.com>>

<http://

> > > srigaruda.com

> > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>>>>

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Promila Chitkara

wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > Hello Sharat,

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Do you not think

that "serving others" comes

> naturally

> > > > > only

> > > > > > > to a

> > > > > > > > > > > handful people?

There maybe people who want to

> serve

> > > their

> > > > > > > families;

> > > > > > > > > > > however, that is

not selfless service in the true

> > > sense of

> > > > > > > the term.

> > > > > > > > > > > Because we know

very well that in happiness and

> > > > > contentment

> > > > > > > of our

> > > > > > > > > > > families lies

our happiness and growth! So it's

> purely

> > > > > > > selfish.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > P

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original

Message ----

> > > > > > > > > > > Sharat

<gidoc@>

> > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa

 

> > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > Thursday,

August 30, 2007 2:23:04 AM

> > > > > > > > > > > Re:

Re: Jupiter as AK (to

> Tijanaji,

> > > > > Nitish

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > v_reality)

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > ||Namah Shivaya||

> > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sundeep,

> > > > > > > > > > > Good

observations, I was following this thread as

> > > well but

> > > > > > > really

> > > > > > > > > > > found the ' ego

' bit coming in too quickly.

> > > > > > > > > > > English words

cant describe so well ' ahankar '

> and '

> > > > > aham'

> > > > > > > which are

> > > > > > > > > > > different and I

agree that one cannot see this

> only in

> > > > > Sun AK.

> > > > > > > > > However

> > > > > > > > > > > as you say, Sun

AK needs to learn to serve others

> as

> > > it

> > > > > does

> > > > > > > not come

> > > > > > > > > > > naturally to

them. And you cant take ' I ' away

> from

> > > them

> > > > > so

> > > > > > > easily

> > > > > > > > > > > but perhaps if

one wants to merge with Paramatma,

> then

> > > > > the '

> > > > > > > I '

> > > > > > > > > will

> > > > > > > > > > > have to merge in

to ' Him '.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Best

> > > > > > > > > > > Sharat

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original

Message -----

> > > > > > > > > > > **

vedicastrostudent

> <vedicastrostudent@>

> > > > > > > > > > > *To:*

sohamsa@ .com

> > > > > > > <sohamsa

 

> > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>>

> > > > > > > > > > > *Sent:*

Wednesday, August 29, 2007 8:56 PM

> > > > > > > > > > > *Subject:*

Re: Jupiter as AK (to

> Tijanaji,

> > > > > Nitish

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > v_reality)

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Dear Tijanaji

and Nitish,

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I have been

reading your exchange with interest

> in the

> > > > > hope of

> > > > > > > > > > > learning

something new, but I find myself

> disagreeing

> > > > > subtly

> > > > > > > > > in the

> > > > > > > > > > > essence of what

you say. In fact, deep down in the

> > > > > exchange I

> > > > > > > find

> > > > > > > > > > > this statement

made by "v_reality" which makes a

> lot

> > > of

> > > > > sense

> > > > > > > > > to me:

> > > > > > > > > > > "Can this also

be understood at a different level

> as

> > > the

> > > > > > > > > effacement

> > > > > > > > > > > of 'self' in a

spiritual sense?".

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Here is my take

- I have none of the scriptural

> > > knowledge

> > > > > you

> > > > > > > both

> > > > > > > > > > > have, only I

have seen several Sun AK people: I

> dont

> > > > > think it

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > fair to say that

Sun AK people are egotistic. See,

> > > English

> > > > > > > > > also has

> > > > > > > > > > > a lot of words

which have subtly different

> meanings,

> > > and

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > right

> > > > > > > > > > > one has to be

used. An egotistic person is one who

> > > has a

> > > > > > > > > exaggerated

> > > > > > > > > > > sense of

self-importance. Almost everyone in this

> > > world

> > > > > has

> > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > (and you are

fooling yourself if you deny it), it

> is

> > > plain

> > > > > > > > > wrong to

> > > > > > > > > > > observe a person

have Sun AK and simultaneously

> > > observe

> > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > he also

> > > > > > > > > > > has an

exaggerated sense of self importance and

> say

> > > "yes,

> > > > > > > that is

> > > > > > > > > > > what the Sun AK

does to him". I can cite hundreds

> of

> > > > > people I

> > > > > > > know

> > > > > > > > > > > who are very

self important and DONT have Sun AK,

> and

> > > not

> > > > > only

> > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > may not even

have a strong Sun in their chart.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I personally

think the only statement that can be

> > > observed

> > > > > > > > > > > repeatedly with

Sun AK people is that they are

> > > egocentric

> > > > > i.e.

> > > > > > > > > their

> > > > > > > > > > > view of the

world is based on the individual

> rather

> > > than

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > society. They

may or may not be egotistical (i.e.

> > > > > > > > > egocentricity does

> > > > > > > > > > > not imply self

importance) - the AK simply makes

> them

> > > go

> > > > > > > through

> > > > > > > > > > > experiences in

life such that their core self is

> > > tested.

> > > > > How

> > > > > > > they

> > > > > > > > > > > respond to it

depends probably on lots of other

> > > > > astrological

> > > > > > > > > > > factors. The

only statement I can safely make,

> based

> > > on

> > > > > pure

> > > > > > > > > > > experience, is

that Sun AK people are guided to

> > > divinity

> > > > > > > through

> > > > > > > > > > > experiences of

the self, consequently their view

> is

> > > > > > > egocentric.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I know one Sun

AK woman (dont know if I can share

> her

> > > > > data)

> > > > > > > > > who was

> > > > > > > > > > > molested (by her

own professor) and denied a

> higher

> > > degree

> > > > > > > > > that she

> > > > > > > > > > > worked hard for,

then get married and then

> divorced,

> > > then

> > > > > > > have her

> > > > > > > > > > > mom die of

cancer in a rather painful way, then

> have

> > > her

> > > > > > > > > brother get

> > > > > > > > > > > divorced in a

messy lawsuit (and then leave her

> too),

> > > then

> > > > > > > > > (she) get

> > > > > > > > > > > married again

and her husband develop terminal

> cancer

> > > very

> > > > > > > soon

> > > > > > > > > > > afterward. Net

result: she cant seem to find a

> strong

> > > and

> > > > > > > > > consistent

> > > > > > > > > > > support outside

of herself - she has become self

> > > reliant

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > only

> > > > > > > > > > > finds consistent

happiness in meditation/reiki.

> She is

> > > > > > > probably

> > > > > > > > > > > egotistical in

some degree too, but not in any

> > > outstanding

> > > > > > > way at

> > > > > > > > > > > all, and

probably much less than all the people

> around

> > > > > her..

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Consequently, I

really dispute the fact that Sun

> AK

> > > people

> > > > > > > must

> > > > > > > > > > > learn to "reduce

their ego". That is simply a

> general

> > > > > lesson

> > > > > > > > > for all

> > > > > > > > > > > of mankind. Sun

AK people's AK will guide them

> towards

> > > > > > > divinity

> > > > > > > > > > > through

experiences that make them focus on

> > > themselves and

> > > > > > > search

> > > > > > > > > > > for the truth:

now that's the statement I find

> much

> > > more

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > point.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Comments?

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Thanks,

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Sundeep

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > --- In

sohamsa@ .com

> > > > > > > > > > >

<sohamsa%40>, nix nixen

> > > <nix_nixen@

> > > > > ..>

> > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave

Namah

> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Nitish,

> > > > > > > > > > > > Only from

one simple statement of yours "It is

> not

> > > > > always

> > > > > > > > > > > possible for

me..." i read that your AK must be

> > > nothing

> > > > > less

> > > > > > > than

> > > > > > > > > > > Sun. Am i right?

If yes, then i think i`m on the

> right

> > > > > way of

> > > > > > > > > > > finding answers

on my queries.

> > > > > > > > > > > > Warm

regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > Tijana

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > yeeahoo_99

<nitish.arya@ ...> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Tijana,

> > > > > > > > > > > > Raja Yoga

is the yoga of soul with paramatma -

> deep/

> > > > > shallow,

> > > > > > > > > > > >

material/spiritual - all kind of things have a

> basis

> > > > > only in

> > > > > > > > > > > > paramatma.

Thus, even Raja-bhanga yoga has a

> basis

> > > i.e.

> > > > > > > > > separation

> > > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > soul from

paramatma (which is illusory only

> though)

> > > and

> > > > > > > hence

> > > > > > > > > > > >

material/spiritual loss depending on the kind of

> > > karma

> > > > > > > involved.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > As the lord

of a sign, a planet rules a 12th

> part

> > > of the

> > > > > > > > > > > >

consciousness, relatively . Thus, in part, it

> > > becomes

> > > > > its

> > > > > > > > > > > >

responsibility to guide the affairs of that

> sign/

> > > house

> > > > > > > towards

> > > > > > > > > > > >

fulfillment. You may explore it further.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > It is not

always possible for me to answer to

> your

> > > > > specific

> > > > > > > > > > > queries.

> > > > > > > > > > > > Hopefully,

in time, you will discover the truth

> of

> > > your

> > > > > > > queries.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > best

regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > nitish

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

sohamsa@ .com

> > > > > > > > > > >

<sohamsa%40>,

> "tijanadamjanovic"

> > > > > > > > > <nix_nixen@>

> > > > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Om

Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear

Nitish,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes,

all must serve. The questions raised in

> these

> > > > > > > discussions

> > > > > > > > > > > on Atma

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

karakas were on the specific way of serving.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > If we

say that Sun AK must learn principles of

> > > artha

> > > > > > > > > shastra to

> > > > > > > > > > > serve,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > the

same stands for Ma and Ju AK? How to

> > > > > differentiate? I

> > > > > > > > > assume

> > > > > > > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > > > > > > are

taking karakatvas of the houses into

> account

> > > also

> > > > > > > > > (2nd, 6th,

> > > > > > > > > > > 10th)?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > The

Sun/Raja gets service on the throne, but

> > > regarding

> > > > > > > > > > > spirituality

> > > > > > > > > > > > > and

Atma this is related to real Raja yoga

> whose

> > > > > deepest

> > > > > > > > > meaning

> > > > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

inseparable from 10th house of indriyas (refer

> > > > > > > Vivekananda) .

> > > > > > > > > > > Only in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > that

sense we can talk of Janaka or the

> perfect

> > > King.

> > > > > What

> > > > > > > > > artha

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

shastra principles you had in mind?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Warm

regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Tijana

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

sohamsa@ .com

> > > > > > > > > > >

<sohamsa%40>,

> > > > > > > "yeeahoo_99" <nitish.arya@ >

> > > > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

|| Om TAT SAT ||

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Dear Tijana,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> To fulfill ones own dharma is what you

> > > probably

> > > > > had in

> > > > > > > > > mind

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> mentioning Gita in this context.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Context that was intended is Gita Chapter

> > > 3,sloka

> > > > > 22.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

All must work if the lord of the cosmos has

> > > chosen

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > work.

> > > > > > > > > > > Thus,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

there is nothing specific that only SUN AK

> has

> > > to

> > > > > > > > > "serve", all

> > > > > > > > > > > AKs

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

"serve".

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> But, are you implying that Sun AK gives a

> > > person

> > > > > akin

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > Janaka?!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Yes, Sun AK gives a person akin to Janaka -

> > > > > jivanmukta -

> > > > > > > > > > > provided

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

enough effort has been put in.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> Are you determing dharma based on this?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

No, Sun AK need not be 9th lord.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> Will you advise Sun AK people to take

> > > > > Dhartharastra

> > > > > > > as an

> > > > > > > > > > > example!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Yes.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

The attitude of service is seen from 6th

> house.

> > > Leo

> > > > > > > being a

> > > > > > > > > > > dharma

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

trikona sign fulfills its purpose of service

> > > through

> > > > > > > 10th

> > > > > > > > > > > house of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Artha, which is 6th from it. So a Sun AK

> should

> > > > > learn

> > > > > > > > > > > principles of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

artha shastra to serve.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> So, again, what Raja will hardly ever do

> is

> > > > > serving.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

All souls have to "Serve" only as there is

> > > nothing

> > > > > else

> > > > > > > > > to be

> > > > > > > > > > > done

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

in the three worlds because Krishna has

> already

> > > > > achieved

> > > > > > > > > > > everything

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

that is there to achieve in the three

> > > worlds(refer

> > > > > > > Gita).

> > > > > > > > > > > Those who

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

do not serve, are reborn to learn to serve,

> > > > > whatever be

> > > > > > > > > their

> > > > > > > > > > > AK.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> Swami Vivekananda` s Dharm bhava lord was

> Sun

> > > AK

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > lagna in

> > > > > > > > > > > Dhanus

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> (extraordinary combination for unselfish

> > > giving by

> > > > > > > > > itself).

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> But do you think it`s a coincidence that

> His

> > > > > Master

> > > > > > > had

> > > > > > > > > > > exalted

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Saturn in 9th

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> bhava and Rahu AK? What do you think, why

> even

> > > > > Swami

> > > > > > > > > needed

> > > > > > > > > > > these?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

One is not re-born after exhausting his

> karma/

> > > > > desires.

> > > > > > > Thus,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

vivekananda (Rahu PiK) came here to exhaust

> his

> > > > > > > remaining

> > > > > > > > > > > karma/

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

desires with Ramakrishna (Rahu AK). There

> is no

> > > more

> > > > > > > > > substance

> > > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

this than a past-life karmic relationship of

> > > the two

> > > > > > > which

> > > > > > > > > > > continued

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

in this birth also.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

NITISH

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

sohamsa@ .com

> > > > > > > > > > >

<sohamsa%40>,

> > > "tijana" <nix_nixen@>

> > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> Dear Nitish,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> Your elaboration would be even more

> brilliant

> > > if

> > > > > you

> > > > > > > had

> > > > > > > > > > > just answer

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> my question.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> To fulfill ones own dharma is what you

> > > probably

> > > > > had in

> > > > > > > > > mind

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

mentioning

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> Gita in this context. But, are you

> implying

> > > that

> > > > > Sun

> > > > > > > AK

> > > > > > > > > > > gives a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> person akin to Janaka?! Are you determing

> > > dharma

> > > > > > > based on

> > > > > > > > > > > this? Will

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> you advise Sun AK people to take

> > > Dhartharastra as

> > > > > an

> > > > > > > > > > > example!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> So, again, what Raja will hardly ever do

> is

> > > > > serving.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> Swami Vivekananda` s Dharm bhava lord was

> Sun

> > > AK

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > lagna in

> > > > > > > > > > > Dhanus

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> (extraordinary combination for unselfish

> > > giving by

> > > > > > > > > itself).

> > > > > > > > > > > But do

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

you

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> think it`s a coincidence that His Master

> had

> > > > > exalted

> > > > > > > > > Saturn

> > > > > > > > > > > in 9th

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> bhava and Rahu AK? What do you think, why

> even

> > > > > Swami

> > > > > > > > > needed

> > > > > > > > > > > these?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> Warm regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> Tijana

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> sohamsa@ .com

> > > > > > > > > > >

<sohamsa%40>,

> > > > > > > "yeeahoo_99" <nitish.arya@ >

> > > > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > || Om Tat Sat ||

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > Dear Tijana,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > What is the thing that Raja will

> hardly

> > > ever

> > > > > do?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > Read up Gita, arthashastra and ancient

> texts

> > > > > that

> > > > > > > show

> > > > > > > > > > > what

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

all a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > Raja has to do to ensure that his

> subjects

> > > are

> > > > > > > protected

> > > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

progress

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > on the upward evolutionary path. Look at

> > > > > krishna,

> > > > > > > Janaka

> > > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > ChandraGupta Maurya and you will

> understand

> > > > > whatever

> > > > > > > > > > > that "hardly

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > ever do" equates to.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > Otherwise, going by your statement, AK

> > > wouldn't

> > > > > do

> > > > > > > > > > > anything

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

being

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > the king of the horoscope and the rest

> of

> > > the

> > > > > > > > > karakas (BK,

> > > > > > > > > > > PiK,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Puk,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > GK) i.e. his subjects will follow the

> suit!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > Actually, the mantra is "Shiva jnane

> Jiva

> > > > > > > Seva" (serving

> > > > > > > > > > > every

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > being as the full manifestation of God)

> that

> > > > > > > > > Narendranath

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

received

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > from his Master Ramakrishna who had Sun

> in

> > > > > Aquarius.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > Being Sun AK, Vivekananda had developed

> > > peculiar

> > > > > > > > > sharpness

> > > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > perception and assimilation that

> empowered

> > > him

> > > > > with

> > > > > > > > > > > unusual power

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > pick up 'the gems' from the talks of his

> > > Master.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > With Sun in Sagittarius, he could, as

> > > compared

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > others,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

easily

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > 'see' the deep meaning in the words of

> Sri

> > > > > > > Ramakrishna,

> > > > > > > > > > > even

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

though

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > the Master told them in simple language

> (Aq

> > > > > Sun),

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > never as

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > preaching.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > With its dispositor Jupiter in Libra,

> > > gradually

> > > > > > > Swami

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Vivekananda

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > started assimilating tips and hints on

> > > practical

> > > > > > > Vedanta

> > > > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

could

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > benefit individual and collective life

> in

> > > the

> > > > > > > society.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > "...For spiritual persons Sun as AK

> > > should be

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter`s

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

signs

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > (Shiva jnane...), otherwise it`s very

> hard

> > > > > > > task..."

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > Putting up statements like you have

> done is

> > > not

> > > > > > > > > wise. Sri

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Yukteswar

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > Giri, has Sun AK placed in Aries and had

> > > > > attained

> > > > > > > > > highest

> > > > > > > > > > > level

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > spirituality. Even if Sun AK is placed

> in

> > > > > Libra, it

> > > > > > > > > could

> > > > > > > > > > > be the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

most

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > spiritual person.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > AK shows the spiritual power of a sign

> over

> > > the

> > > > > > > rest of

> > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

signs/

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > planets in the chart and this spiritual

> > > power

> > > > > > > manifests

> > > > > > > > > > > through

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > dispositor of AK and its sign placement.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > NITISH

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > sohamsa@ .com

> > > > > > > > > > >

<sohamsa%40>,

> > > "tijana" <nix_nixen@>

> > > > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > Dear Su,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > Sun is the Self. Its qualities are

> those

> > > of

> > > > > Raja

> > > > > > > > > (karaka

> > > > > > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > first house, lord of the 5th, dig

> bala in

> > > > > 10th).

> > > > > > > > > What is

> > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

thing

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > that Raja will hardly ever do? The

> lesson

> > > > > that has

> > > > > > > > > to be

> > > > > > > > > > > learnt

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > by

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > Sun AK is serving, in the highest

> sence it

> > > > > gives

> > > > > > > > > "Shiva

> > > > > > > > > > > jnane

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Shiva

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > seva" (service of man as God)-the

> divine

> > > > > lesson

> > > > > > > > > given to

> > > > > > > > > > > us by

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > Swami

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > Vivekananda (Sun AK). For spiritual

> > > persons

> > > > > Sun

> > > > > > > as AK

> > > > > > > > > > > should be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > Jupiter`s signs (Shiva jnane...),

> > > otherwise

> > > > > it`s

> > > > > > > very

> > > > > > > > > > > hard task.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > Warm regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > Tijana

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > sohamsa@ .com

> > > > > > > > > > >

<sohamsa%40>, "v

> > > > > reality" <reality_v@>

> > > > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > Dear Bojan-ji

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > Thank you for your reply. Much

> > > appreciated.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > If I may ask another query re Sun

> AK.

> > > The

> > > > > lesson

> > > > > > > > > to be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

learnt

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > for

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > Sun AK,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > is the reduction of ego. Can this

> also

> > > be

> > > > > > > understood

> > > > > > > > > > > at a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > different level

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > as the effacement of 'self' in a

> > > spiritual

> > > > > > > sense?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > thanks

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > Su

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >Bojan Vidakovic <janbovid@>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >sohamsa@ .com

> > > > > > > > > > >

<sohamsa%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >sohamsa@ .com

> > > > > > > > > > >

<sohamsa%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >Re: Jupiter as

> AK

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >Wed, 22 Aug 2007 08:33:22 -

> 0700

> > > (PDT)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >HARE RAMA KRISHNA

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >Dear Su

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >I would add that with Gu AK person

> > > have to

> > > > > be

> > > > > > > very

> > > > > > > > > > > humble to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

all

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > spiritual

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >techers and natives, like priests,

> > > gurus,

> > > > > > > teachers.

> > > > > > > > > > > With Ma

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > AK

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > person must

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >practise Ahumsa (nonviolence) ,

> with

> > > Ch the

> > > > > > > > > native is

> > > > > > > > > > > always

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

very

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > caring,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >and gives emotions but the problem

> is

> > > that

> > > > > they

> > > > > > > > > never

> > > > > > > > > > > get

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

enough

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > for

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >themselves from other people. The

> > > person

> > > > > must

> > > > > > > learn

> > > > > > > > > > > lessons

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

also

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > from the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >people represented with AK. Ch /

> > > mother,

> > > > > Sy /

> > > > > > > > > father

> > > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > everything those

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >grahas represent.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >Take few examples of people you

> know

> > > and

> > > > > see

> > > > > > > it in

> > > > > > > > > > > praxix.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Best

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > wishes,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >Bojan

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >Hari Om Tat Sat

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@ >

> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > hraum namah adityaya

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > Dear Su,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > Person should use a lot of glass

> and

> > > sing/

> > > > > hum

> > > > > > > > > > > melodies.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > Rafal Gendarz

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > email: rafal@

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > v reality napisaÅ,(a): Dear

> Rafalji/

> > > > > Members

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > This is an interesting discussion.

> > > Could

> > > > > we

> > > > > > > > > discuss

> > > > > > > > > > > other

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

AKs

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > too. I read

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > in an article that natives with

> Moon

> > > as AK

> > > > > > > need to

> > > > > > > > > > > learn

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

to be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > more

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >caring

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > and loving to others. But I know

> of a

> > > > > chart

> > > > > > > where

> > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

native

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > already

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >by

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > nature very caring, loving and

> > > concerned

> > > > > about

> > > > > > > > > > > others

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

since

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > young. So

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >what

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > is the lesson to be learnt?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > thanks

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > Su

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@

> > > wp.pl>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >sohamsa@

> .com

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >sohamsa@ .com

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >Re: Jupiter

> as AK

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >Wed, 22 Aug 2007 10:24:14

> +0200

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > *hraum namah adityaya*

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >Dear LN Kumar,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >With Ju AK person should learn to

> > > respect

> > > > > > > others

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

knowledge

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >tradition,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >should be ready to learn from

> others.

> > > > > When Ju

> > > > > > > > > is in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

kendra to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > AK or is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >AK

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >himself then native thinks that

> he

> > > knows

> > > > > > > > > everything

> > > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

now

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > He

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > can share

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >His knowledge with everybody.

> Good

> > > > > teachers

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > course

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

comes

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > from

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >AK-Jupiter- Natives, as this

> graha

> > > will

> > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > > naturally in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > Karakamsa.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >With MA AK person should learn to

> > > > > catalyze

> > > > > > > > > energies

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

through

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > ZEN, TAI-CHI

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >or

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >other techniques, while with JU

> AK

> > > person

> > > > > > > should

> > > > > > > > > > > learn to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > more humble

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >regarding knowledge. Of course

> person

> > > > > can be

> > > > > > > > > > > focused on

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > Jupiter-

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > karakas

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >like kids, spirituality, law,

> luck

> > > etc.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >Mahadasa of AK brings lesson to

> us

> > > so its

> > > > > > > not so

> > > > > > > > > > > easy

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > materially but

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >inspiring spiritually, so if

> Surya

> > > is in

> > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > > > placement

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

from

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > AK

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > then it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >can

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >be not so bad as person is

> spiritual.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >Rafal Gendarz

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >narender kumar napisa?(a):

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >>Dear Gurujans,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >>Kindly throw some light on

> Jupiter

> > > as

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >>Atmakaraka and having Jupiter as

> > > > > mahadasha.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >>Respectful Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >>LN Kumar

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >>__________ __ _________

> _________

> > > > > _________

> > > > > > > > > > > _________

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > _________ _

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >>Take the Internet to Go:

> Go

> > > puts

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > Internet in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

your

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > pocket:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >mail,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >>news, photos & more.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >>http://mobile. <http://mobile./

> > > <http://mobile./>

> > > > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>>

> > > > > > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>

<http://mobile./

 

> > > <http://mobile./>>>

> > > > > > > > > <http://mobile./

<http://mobile./>

<http://mobile./

 

> > > <http://mobile./>>

<http://mobile./

<http://mobile./>

> > > > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>>>>>

/

> > > > > > > > > > > go?refer= 1GNXIC

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >><http://mobile. <http://

> mobile./

> > > <http://mobile./>

> > > > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>>

> > > > > > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>

<http://mobile./

 

> > > <http://mobile./>>>

> > > > > > > > > <http://mobile./

<http://mobile./>

<http://mobile./

 

> > > <http://mobile./>>

<http://mobile./

<http://mobile./>

> > > > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>>>>>

/

> > > > > > > > > > > go?refer=

1GNXIC>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > ____________ _________ _________

> > > _________

> > > > > > > > > _________

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

_________

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > _

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > Advertisement: It's simple! Sell

> your

> > > car

> > > > > for

> > > > > > > just

> > > > > > > > > > > $30 at

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > CarPoint.com.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >au

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > http://a.ninemsn. <http://

> a.ninemsn./

> > > <http://a.ninemsn./>

> > > > > <http://a.ninemsn./ <http://a.ninemsn./>>

> > > > > > > <http://a.ninemsn./ <http://a.ninemsn./>

<http://

> a.ninemsn./

> > > <http://a.ninemsn./>>>

> > > > > > > > > <http://a.ninemsn./

<http://a.ninemsn./>

 

> > > <http://a.ninemsn./

<http://a.ninemsn./>>

<http://

> > > a.ninemsn./

> > > > > <http://a.ninemsn./ <http://a.ninemsn./>>>>>

com.au/b.

> > > > > > > > > > > aspx?URL=

http%3A%2F%

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

2Fsecure%

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >2Dau%2Eimrworldw ide%2Ecom%

> > > 2Fcgi%2Dbin%

> > > > > > > 2Fa%2Fci%

> > > > > > > > > > > 5F450304%

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > 2Fet%

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > 5F2%

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >2Fcg%5F801459% 2Fpi%5F1004813%

> > > > > 2Fai%5F859641 &

> > > > > > > > > > > _t=762955845 &

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > _r=tig_AUG07 &

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >_m=EXT

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >Best wishes,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > SJC Guru Bojan Vidakovic

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > for articles and consultations

> visit

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >http://www.jataveda s.com

> > > > > > > > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/

<http://www.jatavedas.com/

> >

> > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/

<http://www.jatavedas.com/>>

> > > > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/

<http://www.jatavedas.com/>

 

> > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/

<http://www.jatavedas.com/>>>

> > > > > > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/

<http://www.jatavedas.com/>

 

> > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/

<http://www.jatavedas.com/>>

> > > > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/

<http://www.jatavedas.com/>

 

> > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/

<http://www.jatavedas.com/>>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >----------- --------- --------- ---

> -

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >Choose the right car based on your

> > > needs.

> > > > > > > Check out

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > Autos

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > new Car

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >Finder tool.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

____________ _________ _________ _________

> > > _________

> > > > > > > > > _________ _

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > Advertisement: Make shopping

> exciting.

> > > Find

> > > > > > > what you

> > > > > > > > > > > want at

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > www.eBay.com. au

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > http://a.ninemsn.

com.au/ <http://

> > > > > > > a.ninemsn.com.au/

> > > > > > > > > <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/

<http://a.ninemsn.com.au/>

 

> > > <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/ <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/>>

> > > > > <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/ <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/>

 

> > > <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/ <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/>>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > b.aspx?URL=http% 3A%2F%2Frover%

> > > 2Eebay%2Ecom%

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > 2Frover%2F1% 2F705%2D10129%

> 2D5668%2D323%

> > > > > > > 2F4%2F%3Fid%

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > 3D6 & _t=763807330 & _r=email_ taglines_

> > > > > EBAY & _m=EXT

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

------------ --------- --------- ---

> > > > > > > > > > > > Take the

Internet to Go: Go puts the

> Internet

> > > in

> > > > > your

> > > > > > > > > > > pocket: mail,

news, photos & more.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > ---------------------

> ----

> > > > > > > > > > > Be a better

Globetrotter. Get better travel

> answers

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://

 

> > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://>

> > > answers./

> > > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./

 

> > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./>>

> > > > > dir/

> > > > > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://

> answers./

> > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./>

> > > dir/

> > > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./

> dir/

> > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./dir/

> >>>

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > >

>

_ylc=X3oDMTI5MGx2aThyBF9TAzIxMTU1MDAzNTIEX3MDMzk2NTQ1MTAzBHNlYwNCQUJwaWxsYXJfTklfMzYwBHNsawNQcm9kdWN0X3F1ZXN0aW9uX3BhZ2U-?link=list & sid=396545469

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://

 

> > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://>

> > > answers./

> > > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./

 

> > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./>>

> > > > > dir/

> > > > > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://

> answers./

> > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./>

> > > dir/

> > > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./

> dir/

> > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./dir/

> >>>

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > >

>

_ylc=X3oDMTI5MGx2aThyBF9TAzIxMTU1MDAzNTIEX3MDMzk2NTQ1MTAzBHNlYwNCQUJwaWxsYXJfTklfMzYwBHNsawNQcm9kdWN0X3F1ZXN0aW9uX3BhZ2U-?link=list & sid=396545469>>from

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > someone who

knows.

> > > > > > > > > > > Answers -

Check it out.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

हरे राम कृष्ण॥

Dear Nitish, Namaskar

Good to see your reply. My answers to your points:

 

You wrote:

 

Sohamsa is the mantra of breath - initiation a soul receives from

Sri Krishna to progress on the path to evolution. This is the

uninterrrupted only living parampara there is.

Visti: Don't think you can reach God on your own. This is the

biggest mistake that Surya and Shani Atmakaraka's make.

Get a Guru, the Guru is the one who will ensure that you are breathing

the truth and not just your own beliefs.

 

You wrote:

 

Chapter 6 sloka 5:

uddharedatmanatmanam natmanamavasadayet

atmaiva hyatmano bandhuratmaiva ripuratmanah -5-

 

Visti: The translation of this sloka is:

One should save oneself by oneself; one should not lower oneself.

For oneself is verily one's own friend; oneself is verily one's own enemy.

 

This is not an excuse or a suitable response for making your own inference or commentary of the Gita.

The last statement of this sloka is apt, as one indeed is ones own enemy, and

you can blame no-one else for your rebirth, which was caused by your own self. So how do you know

You are not making the same mistakes from your past life? This is bandhana, and i will get to this below.

 

 

 

You wrote:

 

Karma is the only bandhana that Gita mentions.

Visti: This is a very brave statement from yourself, because the

only basis you have for this is that Krishna mentions that Karma done

for the sake of material fruits causes bondage. Based on this one

statement of Krishna you have decided that there are no other bondages,

merely because he didn't mention others. Does this merit and exclusion

of the other bondages?? THEN what respect do you give Lord Shiva who is

the original composer of the Shiva Purana, who states that the Eight

bondages are caused DUE to karma, and due to which we are Jeevatmas in

this world? In other words, do you reject Shiva?

 

You wrote:

 

From KathaUpanishad (III.Up.I.2.3. -13 & 14.)

'The Chariot of the Body': The five horses represent the five senses

(tongue, eyes, nose, ears and skin). The rein symbolises the mind,

the driver is the intelligence while the passenger is the jeevatma.

Visti: So, which of the Sun or Rahu is the Jeevatma in this scheme?

 

Looking forward to your reply.

Yours sincerely,

 

 

--

 

Visti Larsen - SJC Guru

Jaimini SJC - Denmark

email: visti

For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: http://srigaruda.com

 

 

Visti Larsen wrote:

 

 

-------

 

 

 

 

Re: Jupiter as AK (to Visti, Tijanaji, Nitish and v_reality)

 

 

 

Sun, 09 Sep 2007 14:41:01 -0000

 

 

 

csna25 <csna25 >

 

 

 

Visti Larsen <visti (AT) srigaruda (DOT) com>

 

 

 

 

 

|| OM TAT SAT ||

Dear Visti,

> Visti: Why does it include those who practice the sohamsa-mantra

yajna?

Sohamsa is the mantra of breath - initiation a soul receives from

Sri Krishna to progress on the path to evolution. This is the

uninterrrupted only living parampara there is.

 

>Visti: How can I know what Krishna meant? Thats why i cited Adi

>Shankaras commentary, and now you are giving your own commentary.

> Should i believe in your commentary or that of Adi Shankara?

 

Chapter 6 sloka 5:

uddharedatmanatmanam natmanamavasadayet

atmaiva hyatmano bandhuratmaiva ripuratmanah -5-

 

> You are equating Buddhi with a spiritual faculty, and this is your

> basis for equating Buddhi with the Sun. Your intent is clear in

> this. Then why didn't you equate Buddhi with Jupiter or Ketu?

> Surely Ketu is much more spiritual than Sun.

 

In eightfold-Prakriti, Jupiter represents Akash Tattwa.

Ketu is not there in the scheme of Eightfold-Apara-prakriti, as it

would rather show a state after liberation from Prakriti.

Rahu, being the literal/zodiacal/mathematical opposite of Ketu,

has Zero-affinity towards liberation of a being (as you wrote, it

causes rebirth).

Sun is the only graha that performs the role of Buddhi as a

spiritual faculty.

 

> Visti: Again, just because a PURE buddhi enhances ones spiritual

> efforts, it doesn't mean it is signified by the Sun.

 

In the eight-fold scheme, Sun as PURE buddhi directs spiritual

effort after Rahu has done its role of bringing the soul back to a

physical body.

 

> Again, the basis of this statement itself is doubtful, due to which

> you would have to equate Ketu with Buddhi based on your

> statements. Based on what you have written how can you classify

> Buddhi as a Bandhana?

 

Karma is the only bandhana that Gita mentions.

 

> Visti: I don't think my Jyotish Guru is wrong. Also how do you

> justify that the bandhana has to be decided based on wisdom of the

> graha? Since when do Moon and Rahu not make spiritual efforts? Moon

> in eighth house makes the person meditate and perform kundalini

> yoga, whilst Rahu in tenth makes the person go on pilgrimages and

> visit tirthas. The Sun doesn't even meditate, he just has faith and

> goes to temple. Its Ketu who causes meditation, and its in the

> junction with Jupiter that he does so through a Guru, and its

> junction with Venus does so indendently.

 

Sun forms Shiva yoga with Ketu, and is exalted in constellation of

Ketu. Mind doesnt make any spiritual effort but needs to be

controlled (6:34).

 

From KathaUpanishad (III.Up.I.2.3. -13 & 14.)

'The Chariot of the Body': The five horses represent the five senses

(tongue, eyes, nose, ears and skin). The rein symbolises the mind,

the driver is the intelligence while the passenger is the jeevatma.

 

http://fixedreference.org/2006-Wikipedia-CD-Selection/images/46/

4642.jpg

 

In Mahabharata war scenario, Sri Krishna as driver of Arjunas'

chariot is the guiding intelligence of the jeevatma and controller of

the reins of the mind. This is the most perfect example of Guru-

Shishya relationship there is!

 

regards,

Nitish

 

sohamsa , Visti Larsen <visti wrote:

>

> ??? ??? ??????

>

> Dear Nitish, Namaskar

> Thank you for your reply.

>

> You wrote:

> / Gita is the commentary of Parampara of Sri Krishna - Arjuna, which

> includes everybody that practices the sohamsa mantra yajna. Thus,

you

> can benefit by reading it as it is the only living parampara till

> date.

> /

>

> Visti: Why does it include those who practice the sohamsa-mantra

yajna?

>

> The Gita revived the Parampara's through Adi Shankara, as he was

the one

> who brought it to the world, and it is one of his bhasyas. But the

Gita

> itself is not a parampara, but the cause of all the other

paramparas to

> exist. Each Shankaracharya Mutt is a Parampara in itself and

continues

> to preach the vedas.

>

> Your statement denounces the importance of these Mutts. Are you

> practicing the Sohamsa mantra-yajna through Sri Sri Ravi Shankar?

He was

> taught by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi and its well known that the origin

of

> Maharishi is the Jyotirmutt, thus making your Parampara the same.

>

> /You wrote:

> A person who isn't fit to distinguish between what he ought or

> ought not to do; do you think he is fit to practice spirituality?

Sri

> Krishna is not really telling arjuna to practice materiality

anyways.

> /

>

> /If you don't understand the role of buddhi from this sloka, Gita is

> full of slokas that talk about buddhi as a spiritual faculty (Sun),

> unlike Ahamkara (Rahu)./

>

> Visti: How can I know what Krishna meant? Thats why i cited Adi

> Shankaras commentary, and now you are giving your own commentary.

Should

> i believe in your commentary or that of Adi Shankara?

>

> You are equating Buddhi with a spiritual faculty, and this is your

basis

> for equating Buddhi with the Sun. Your intent is clear in this.

> Then why didn't you equate Buddhi with Jupiter or Ketu? Surely Ketu

is

> much more spiritual than Sun.

>

> /Chapter 3 sloka 1:

> Arjuna asks:

> "If Buddhi is greater than karma, Janardana

> Then why give me the order to be in this intense fight?"

>

> Chapter 3 sloka 42:

> Sri Krishna replies:

> "In the body the senses are superior

> >From the senses the mind is greater

> >From the mind the intellect (buddhi) is superior and

> Beyond the intellect is the Atman as the witness"/

>

> Visti: The word used in this sloka is not 'witness' but 'superior'.

Also

> the word 'Atma' is not from the translation, but from

Shankaracharyas

> commentary. The Atma is superior to the intellect, and in this case

it

> refers to Angirasa's definition of Antaratma, and is called 'the

self'

> according to Shankara.

>

> /Chapter 4 sloka 5 tells that many births of mine and yours have

> passed.

> Chapter 6 sloka 43:

>

> "Acquiring wisdom (BUDDHI-SAMYOGAM) revived from the previous body

> thereafter he endeavors once again for perfection."/

>

> Visti: Again, just because a PURE buddhi enhances ones spiritual

> efforts, it doesn't mean it is signified by the Sun.

>

> /> One could just as easily justify that since the main cause of

> > rebirth is Rahu, the stronger the bondage of Rahu, so also the

> > stronger the bondage of Buddhi and thus the eclipse

> > of the Sun/spirituality.

>

> Do you still have doubts that Sun refers to Buddhi? Rahu (Ahamkara)

> and Moon (manas) don't make spiritual efforts.

> Rahu cannot be considered to be wise, in this context, that its

> "rebirth-causing-//bondage-quality" be used to achieve perfection

and

> liberation in this birth. It is only good at helping a rebirth, not

> helping to liberate - thus it is not doing the function of Buddhi by

> 6:43.

> /

>

> Visti: I don't think my Jyotish Guru is wrong. Also how do you

justify

> that the bandhana has to be decided based on wisdom of the graha?

> Since when do Moon and Rahu not make spiritual efforts? Moon in

eighth

> house makes the person meditate and perform kundalini yoga, whilst

Rahu

> in tenth makes the person go on pilgrimages and visit tirthas. The

Sun

> doesn't even meditate, he just has faith and goes to temple. Its

Ketu

> who causes meditation, and its in the junction with Jupiter that he

does

> so through a Guru, and its junction with Venus does so

independently.

>

> Again, the basis of this statement itself is doubtful, due to which

you

> would have to equate Ketu with Buddhi based on your statements.

Based

> on what you have written how can you classify Buddhi as a Bandhana?

> Rahu is extremely useful at helping liberation... In fact i can

justify

> how each planet can help liberation, but thats not a fair basis for

> justifying their Bandhanas.

>

> /How many of the 6 billion people, all born due to Rahu-bond are

> using this birth to make a spiritual effort?

> /

>

> Visti: How about Ramakrishna Paramahamsa? How about Srila

Prabhupada?

> They are the causes of the largest spiritual missions in India and

> abroad. I think they made great spiritual effort. They have Rahu as

> atmakaraka!

>

> Sun on the other hand causes problems with ahamkara in the person.

> Citing Sanjay Rath: <http://www.srath.com/lessons/advanced/ak2.htm>

>

> "*Planets as ätmakäraka: *1. Sun as AK indicates the native

has to

> learn to overcome his ego and should become humble." refer:

> http://srath.com/lessons/advanced/ak.htm

>

> "Ahankära refers to its independent identity and is the false ego

(*not

> Freud's ego*). This is false because the identity is not permanent

and

> it is an ego as it helps to identify the object and differentiate

it

> from the other bodies/creatures of its class or family. This is

> represented by the Sun in astrology." refer:

> http://www.srath.com/lessons/advanced/ak2.htm

>

> Visti: note the careful reference to /ego /not being equated with

> Freud's understanding of Ego.

>

> /Chapter 7 verse 10:

> "O Arjuna, try to understand me as the eternal origin of all living

> entities. I am the (BuddhirBuddhiMataA/ /smi) intelligence in the

> intelligent, and the brilliance of the brilliant."

>

> Chapter 10 sloka 10:

> "One who is always united with Me (see 6:18) and who meditates upon

Me

> with love -- I bestow him with buddhiyoga (meaning stillness) by

> which, he is the one who attains Me."

>

> Chapter 15 sloka 20:

> (Etad Buddhva Buddhimaan syat KritaKrityascha bharata)

> "Understand with your intelligence this most secret science that I

> have explained to you and become wise, and thereupon be successful

in

> all your duties."

>

> Chapter 18 sloka 30:

> " One who knows engagement and withdrawal, work and work not to be

> done, fear and non-fear, bondage and liberation -- this type of

> (Buddhi) intellect is sattvic."

>

> Rahu cannot be Sattvic!

> /

>

> Visti: Does that mean Sun can be tamasic? How about all those who

don't

> have satva budhi? Are you saying they don't have a buddhi because

its

> not satvic? Your justification doesn't hold water.

>

> /Chapter 18, sloka 57:

> "Dedicate all action to Me from the (chetasa)heart, extinguish

> wholly, be devoted to Me, take recourse in buddhi-yoga and keep your

> consciousness always on Me."

>

> 18:30, 10:10 -- there is nothing like Ahamkara Yoga, but Buddhi-

> Yoga. With Sun as ParamAtma, one would have a yoga with him as

Buddhi.

>

> Thus, if buddhi is all that important all along from 2nd to 18th

> chapter, in Gita, lets understand it as a function of Surya with

> Sattvic Buddhi. /

>

> Visti: If Satvic Budhi is the Sun, then is Sun also Tamasic/impure

> Budhi? You are only dealing with the highest aspect of Buddhi in

these

> slokas, and not speaking of Buddhi as a bandhana.

>

> Since our entire discussion revolves around Sun, Moon and Rahu

which are

> the causes of the eclipse, i will quote a translation of

Dakshinamurti

> Stotra:

>

> rähugrastadiväkarendusadåço mäyäsamäcchädanät sanmätraù

> karaëopasaàharaëato yo'bhütsuñuptaù pumän |

>

> prägasväpsamiti prabodhasamaye yaù pratyabhijïäyate tasmai

> çrégurumürtaye nama idaà çrédakñiëämürtaye || 6||

>

> The Sun (atma) is eclipsed when the Moon (Mana) conjoins it and the

Moon

> is in the latitude as the orbital plane of the earth where the

> intersection points are the nodes (Rahu & Ketu). It is this Rahu

that is

> said to cause the eclipse. Simiarly, the Rahu of our lives is our

own

> desires and sice Rahu is a node of the Moon (mana), the desires are

the

> creation of the mind. It is the coming together or conjunction of

the

> atma (Sun), mana (Moon) and desires (Rahu) that causes an eclipse

or

> birth itself.

>

> Visti: The key lies in this, namely that Rahu being a node of the

Moon

> is the cause of desires created in the mind, and very much deals

with

> the mind.

>

> Further; ATMA means self. There are three types of atma according

to

> Angirasa, namely: Atma, Antaratma and Paramatma. The first is the

body

> itself and its senses. The second is the abode of the individual

soul or

> Jeevatma, and finally the Paramatma is God.

>

> So when Parasara and other seers stated that the Sun is the atma,

they

> also refer to the entire gamut of definitions of the self. Ahamkara

is a

> function of 'thinking' one is the self, and is the bondage that

caused

> the Jeevatma to separate from the Paramatma to begin with! This is

> defined in the cosmology where the ahamkara merged with the various

> Gunas to cause the bhutas, etc. to manifest.

>

> Looking forward to your reply.

> Yours sincerely,

>

> --

> Visti Larsen - SJC Guru

> Jaimini SJC - Denmark

> email: visti <visti

> For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: http://

srigaruda.com

> <http://srigaruda.com>

>

> yeeahoo_99 wrote:

> >

> > || OM TAT SAT ||

> > Dear Visti,

> > Gita is the commentary of Parampara of Sri Krishna - Arjuna, which

> > includes everybody that practices the sohamsa mantra yajna. Thus,

you

> > can benefit by reading it as it is the only living parampara till

> > date.

> >

> > > Visti: I don't have this translation. Is this an inference?

> > > The last two words used here are: buddhinaashaat-praNashyati =

> > > destruction of buddhi causes one to be lost/dissapear/vanish/

> > perish. > Did you infer that it was spirituality which perished?

To

> > this Adi

> > > Shankara comments: /Indeed, a man continues to be himself so

long

> > as > his mind remains fit to distinguish between what he ought to

and

> > > ought not to do./

> >

> > A person who isn't fit to distinguish between what he ought or

> > ought not to do; do you think he is fit to practice spirituality?

Sri

> > Krishna is not really telling arjuna to practice materiality

anyways.

> >

> > If you don't understand the role of buddhi from this sloka, Gita

is

> > full of slokas that talk about buddhi as a spiritual faculty

(Sun),

> > unlike Ahamkara (Rahu).

> >

> > Chapter 3 sloka 1:

> > Arjuna asks:

> > "If Buddhi is greater than karma, Janardana

> > Then why give me the order to be in this intense fight?"

> >

> > Chapter 3 sloka 42:

> > Sri Krishna replies:

> > "In the body the senses are superior

> > >From the senses the mind is greater

> > >From the mind the intellect (buddhi) is superior and

> > Beyond the intellect is the Atman as the witness"

> >

> > Chapter 4 sloka 5 tells that many births of mine and yours have

> > passed.

> > Chapter 6 sloka 43:

> >

> > "Acquiring wisdom (BUDDHI-SAMYOGAM) revived from the previous body

> > thereafter he endeavors once again for perfection."

> >

> > > One could just as easily justify that since the main cause of

> > > rebirth is Rahu, the stronger the bondage of Rahu, so also the

> > > stronger the bondage of Buddhi and thus the eclipse

> > > of the Sun/spirituality.

> >

> > Do you still have doubts that Sun refers to Buddhi? Rahu

(Ahamkara)

> > and Moon (manas) don't make spiritual efforts.

> > Rahu cannot be considered to be wise, in this context, that its

> > "rebirth-causing-bondage-quality" be used to achieve perfection

and

> > liberation in this birth. It is only good at helping a rebirth,

not

> > helping to liberate - thus it is not doing the function of Buddhi

by

> > 6:43.

> > How many of the 6 billion people, all born due to Rahu-bond are

> > using this birth to make a spiritual effort?

> >

> > Chapter 7 verse 10:

> > "O Arjuna, try to understand me as the eternal origin of all

living

> > entities. I am the (BuddhirBuddhiMataAsmi) intelligence in the

> > intelligent, and the brilliance of the brilliant."

> >

> > Chapter 10 sloka 10:

> > "One who is always united with Me (see 6:18) and who meditates

upon Me

> > with love -- I bestow him with buddhiyoga (meaning stillness) by

> > which, he is the one who attains Me."

> >

> > Chapter 15 sloka 20:

> > (Etad Buddhva Buddhimaan syat KritaKrityascha bharata)

> > "Understand with your intelligence this most secret science that I

> > have explained to you and become wise, and thereupon be

successful in

> > all your duties."

> >

> > Chapter 18 sloka 30:

> > " One who knows engagement and withdrawal, work and work not to be

> > done, fear and non-fear, bondage and liberation -- this type of

> > (Buddhi) intellect is sattvic."

> >

> > Rahu cannot be Sattvic!

> >

> > Chapter 18, sloka 57:

> > "Dedicate all action to Me from the (chetasa)heart, extinguish

> > wholly, be devoted to Me, take recourse in buddhi-yoga and keep

your

> > consciousness always on Me."

> >

> > 18:30, 10:10 -- there is nothing like Ahamkara Yoga, but Buddhi-

> > Yoga. With Sun as ParamAtma, one would have a yoga with him as

Buddhi.

> >

> > Thus, if buddhi is all that important all along from 2nd to 18th

> > chapter, in Gita, lets understand it as a function of Surya with

> > Sattvic Buddhi.

> >

> > regards,

> > Nitish

> >

> > sohamsa

<sohamsa%40>,

> > Visti Larsen <visti@> wrote:

> > >

> > > ??? ??? ??????

> > >

> > > Dear Nitish, Namaskar

> > > Thank you for your mail.

> > > You mention a Parampara below. Please provide the name of the

> > Parampara

> > > and its commentary for our benefit so we can read more. In

> > answering

> > > your points, i will be using the Gita's commentary by Adi

Shankara

> > -

> > > translated by Svami Gambhirananda.

> > >

> > > /1.) About Buddhi:

> > > Chapter 2 sloka 52, 53 -->

> > > "When Buddhi penetrates beyond darkness of delusion, then you

shall

> > > be indifferent about the matters heard and to-be-heard./

> > >

> > > /."

> > > "..Buddhi becoming securely anchored in soul bliss, one attains

> > yoga."

> > > /

> > >

> > > /Chapter 2 sloka 62,63 -->

> > > DECAY OF BUDDHI causes ANNIHILATION of spiritual life./

> > >

> > > Visti: I don't have this translation. Is this an inference? The

> > last two

> > > words used here are: buddhinaashaat-praNashyati = destruction of

> > buddhi

> > > causes one to be lost/dissapear/vanish/perish. Did you infer

that

> > it was

> > > spirituality which perished? To this Adi Shankara comments: /

> > Indeed, a

> > > man continues to be himself so long as his mind remains fit to

> > > distinguish between what he ought to and ought not to do./

> > >

> > > /NOTE:- Jyotish tells us that Sprituality is related to Sun more

> > than

> > > Rahu, as seen in those with AK in kendra to Sun.

> > > /

> > >

> > > Visti: All eight of the bandhanas once tightened cause loss of

> > > spirituality, not just Buddhi. If a student has so much ahamkara

> > that he

> > > believes he knows everything, then he will not read books and

again

> > > spirituality is destroyed. If a one is fully engrossed in his/

her

> > desire

> > > for procreation then again the spirituality is ruined. The

latter

> > is

> > > explained in Chapter 2, sloka 60. So all eight bandhas cause

this

> > > problem, and not just Buddhi.

> > >

> > > /Chapter 2 sloka 65 -->

> > > Buddhi of the blissful man soon becomes firmly established (in

the

> > > self).

> > >

> > > Chapter 5 sloka 20 -->

> > > "The Knower of spirit, abiding in Supreme being, with STHIRA

BUDDHI,

> > > free from delusion, is thus neither jubiliant at pleasant

> > experiences

> > > nor downcast by unpleasant experiences./ /"/

> > >

> > > Visti: You are very right to give Buddhi such a high pedestal

among

> > the

> > > eight bandhas, because indeed the worst Bandha is that of Buddhi

> > just as

> > > Rahu is the main karaka for all Bandhana of the soul. Overcoming

> > this,

> > > all the other bandhas break easily. This is the reason Rahu is

the

> > main

> > > cause of rebirth. This is why the Shiva purana

(Satirudrasamhita)

> > states

> > > that the Shiva form who is able to control the bondage of Rahu

is

> > > Pashupati. Shiva then explains that Pashupati is responsible for

> > > breaking all wordly bondages (pashupAshanikR^intanaM).

> > > According to Shiva, Ishana is the form of Shiva which controls

> > Surya.

> > > More below.

> > >

> > > /2.) About AHAMKARA:

> > > Chapter 2 sloka 71 -->

> > > "That person realizes peace who, relinquishing all desires,

exists

> > > without craving and is UNIDENTIFIED WITH AHAMKARA (mortal ego)

and

> > > its sense of mine-ness."/

> > >

> > > Visti: Adi Shankara comments that this actually refers to one

> > becoming

> > > one with Brahman i.e. enlightenment. Among the forms of Shiva

which

> > > specifically give this enlightenment (sandIpayajjagatsarvam -

> > enlightens

> > > the entire universe), we see that the form of Ishana is talked

> > about.

> > > Note that the word used is /SandIpa/, and this happens to be the

> > Guru of

> > > Sri Krishna (SandIpani).

> > > However, this sloka from the Gita is not strictly for ahamkara,

but

> > for

> > > all the eight bandhas.

> > >

> > > /3.) About MANAS JOINED WITH BUDDHI:

> > > Chapter 2 sloka 51:

> > > "Those whose minds are joined to wisdom (BUDDHI-YUKTA)/ /,

having

> > > abandoned action's fruit, Freed thus from bondage to rebirth,

they

> > > attain the state beyond sorrow."

> > >

> > > Also refer Chapter 13 slokas 1 - 11:

> > >

> > > "...Indifference to sense objects, And absence of egotism

> > > (NIRHAMKARA)/ /;...Constant evenmindedness in Desired and

undesired

> > > events...With single-minded yoga,...Constant in knowledge of the

> > Self,

> > > Seeing the goal of truth-knowledge--

> > > This is said to be true knowledge.

> > > The contrary is ignorance."

> > >

> > > Chapter 8 sloka 9 refers

> > > "He who meditates on the Seer, the Ruler, The ancient, subtler

than

> > > the atom, support Of all, Whose form is inconceivable and

RADIANT

> > > LIKE THE SUN and beyond darkness."

> > >

> > > This proves beyond doubt and questioning the central role of

> > > BUDDHI in the spiritual growth of a devotee like ARJUNA. Now,

this

> > > role is not played by AHAMKARA or MANAS independently.

> > > Thus, Sun as dispeller of darkness is the only correct

assignment of

> > > the role of Buddhi.

> > > /

> > >

> > > Visti: Your inference implies that only one of the eight bandhas

> > deal

> > > with spiritual growth or its lacking. One could just as easily

> > justify

> > > that since the main cause of rebirth is Rahu, the stronger the

> > bondage

> > > of Rahu, so also the stronger the bondage of Buddhi and thus the

> > eclipse

> > > of the Sun/spirituality. Thus for this reason we worship Sri

> > > Dakshinamurti on the day of the eclipse to be released from this

> > > Bandhana and get enighenment. This is what the Sadhu's practice.

> > >

> > > Note the word Buddhi is used in three different ways in the gita

> > > according to Adi Shankara and Gambhiranandas translation, viz.

i)

> > buddhi

> > > as a bandha, ii) samatva buddhi (pure buddhi) and iii) buddhi as

> > > enlightenment, and cannot be mixed arbitrarily.

> > >

> > > /Getting back to the eightfold Prakriti, Sun (Buddhi), Moon

(MANAS)

> > > and Rahu (Ahamkara) is the only correct version as per the

> > >

> > > GURU-SHISYA PARAMPARA

> > > from

> > > Sri Krishna-Arjuna/

> > >

> > > The reason why in Jyotish most associate the Sun with Ahamkara

in

> > > general terms, is because of the story of Vivasvan and Sanjna

> > > (memory/recollection). In the story Vivasvans rays become so

> > bright, and

> > > he became so knowledgeable (and self absorbed) that Sanjna left

and

> > only

> > > left her shadow (false recollection) behind.

> > >

> > > He only could reunite with Sanjna once his father in-law reduced

> > the

> > > rays of Vivasvan, and he could himself take on a form that

Sanjna

> > was

> > > pleased with.

> > > So the story of Vivasvan/Surya tells us about this nature of

> > Ahamkara.

> > >

> > > Looking forward to your reply.

> > > Yours sincerely,

> > >

> > > --

> > > Visti Larsen - SJC Guru

> > > Jaimini SJC - Denmark

> > > email: visti@ <visti@>

> > > For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: http://

> > srigaruda.com

> > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>

> > >

> > > yeeahoo_99 wrote:

> > > >

> > > > || OM TAT SAT||

> > > > Dear Visti,

> > > > Lets look at what Sri Krishna tells Arjuna in Gita about

Buddhi,

> > > > Manas and Ahamkara.

> > > >

> > > > 1.) About Buddhi:

> > > > Chapter 2 sloka 52, 53 -->

> > > > "When Buddhi penetrates beyond darkness of delusion, then you

> > shall

> > > > be indifferent about the matters heard and to-be-heard.."

> > > > "..Buddhi becoming securely anchored in soul bliss, one

attains

> > yoga."

> > > >

> > > > Chapter 2 sloka 62,63 -->

> > > > DECAY OF BUDDHI causes ANNIHILATION of spiritual life.

> > > >

> > > > NOTE:- Jyotish tells us that Sprituality is related to Sun

more

> > than

> > > > Rahu, as seen in those with AK in kendra to Sun.

> > > >

> > > > Chapter 2 sloka 65 -->

> > > > Buddhi of the blissful man soon becomes firmly established

(in the

> > > > self).

> > > >

> > > > Chapter 5 sloka 20 -->

> > > > "The Knower of spirit, abiding in Supreme being, with STHIRA

> > BUDDHI,

> > > > free from delusion, is thus neither jubiliant at pleasant

> > experiences

> > > > nor downcast by unpleasant experiences."

> > > >

> > > > 2.) About AHAMKARA:

> > > > Chapter 2 sloka 71 -->

> > > > "That person realizes peace who, relinquishing all desires,

exists

> > > > without craving and is UNIDENTIFIED WITH AHAMKARA (mortal

ego) and

> > > > its sense of mine-ness."

> > > >

> > > > 3.) About MANAS JOINED WITH BUDDHI:

> > > > Chapter 2 sloka 51:

> > > > "Those whose minds are joined to wisdom (BUDDHI-YUKTA), having

> > > > abandoned action's fruit, Freed thus from bondage to rebirth,

they

> > > > attain the state beyond sorrow."

> > > >

> > > > Also refer Chapter 13 slokas 1 - 11:

> > > >

> > > > "...Indifference to sense objects, And absence of egotism

> > > > (NIRHAMKARA);...Constant evenmindedness in Desired and

undesired

> > > > events...With single-minded yoga,...Constant in knowledge of

the

> > Self,

> > > > Seeing the goal of truth-knowledge--

> > > > This is said to be true knowledge.

> > > > The contrary is ignorance."

> > > >

> > > > Chapter 8 sloka 9 refers

> > > > "He who meditates on the Seer, the Ruler, The ancient, subtler

> > than

> > > > the atom, support Of all, Whose form is inconceivable and

RADIANT

> > > > LIKE THE SUN and beyond darkness."

> > > >

> > > > This proves beyond doubt and questioning the central role of

> > > > BUDDHI in the spiritual growth of a devotee like ARJUNA. Now,

this

> > > > role is not played by AHAMKARA or MANAS independently.

> > > > Thus, Sun as dispeller of darkness is the only correct

assignment

> > of

> > > > the role of Buddhi.

> > > >

> > > > Getting back to the eightfold Prakriti, Sun (Buddhi), Moon

(MANAS)

> > > > and Rahu (Ahamkara) is the only correct version as per the

> > > >

> > > > GURU-SHISYA PARAMPARA

> > > > from

> > > > Sri Krishna-Arjuna

> > > >

> > > > regards,

> > > > Nitish

> > > >

> > > > sohamsa

<sohamsa%40>

> > <sohamsa%40>,

> > > > Visti Larsen <visti@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > ??? ??? ??????

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Nitish, Namaskar

> > > > > Thank you for this mail.

> > > > > I will be answering the main points of your mail. The main

> > points

> > > > being

> > > > > the foundation of the facts/statements you present.

> > > > >

> > > > > /You wrote:

> > > > > So lets begin with Eightfold-Prakriti of Krishna, your

reference

> > > > > point itself is incorrect. Gita Chapter 7 sloka 4 states:...

> > > > > /

> > > > >

> > > > > I cannot disagree, as i had wrongly written prakriti

instead of

> > > > buddhi.

> > > > > Siva purana confirms this:

> > > > > */Siva Purana, Vishvesvara Samhita,4/*

> > > > > /Prakriti /comprises of buddhi, ahamkara, gunaatmaka and

> > > > panchatanmatra.

> > > > > All these combined are called Prakriti.

> > > > >

> > > > > /You wrote:

> > > > > Neither the five tattwas, Buddhi nor Manah can be assigned

to

> > Rahu

> > > > > and thus Ahamkara is the only thing that can logically be

> > assigned

> > > > to

> > > > > Rahu. So the correct version of eightfold representation of

> > Prakriti

> > > > > is:...

> > > > > /

> > > > >

> > > > > Mana and Buddhi can indeed both be attributed to Rahu, as

Rahu

> > is

> > > > well

> > > > > known to show the desires of the mind. Here the Parampara

comes

> > to

> > > > our

> > > > > help and specifically defines Buddhi to be assigned to Rahu,

> > > > whereas

> > > > > Mana and Ahamkara have been assigned to Moon and Sun

> > respectively.

> > > > So

> > > > > why does Sun represent Ahamkara?

> > > > > aham = self. kaara=causative/doer. The cause of self in

other

> > words.

> > > > > Monier Williams translates this as:

> > > > > /m. conception of one's individuality , self-consciousness

> > ChUp. & c.

> > > > > the making of self , thinking of self , egotism MBh. & c./

> > > > >

> > > > > Where Rahu caused the desire which led to rebirth, it is a

given

> > > > that

> > > > > the Sun is the actual creator of everything, and with that

> > creation

> > > > the

> > > > > ahamkaara is one of the negative effects of the same. But

this

> > is

> > > > just

> > > > > my justification the traditions teachings.

> > > > >

> > > > > /You wrote:

> > > > > There is ONLY ONE bondage and not Eight of them. Ahamkara

> > doesn't

> > > > > cause bondage of atma as you have written, but Karma alone

> > causes

> > > > > bondage of atma, and is not a part of eightfold-prakriti

> > referred

> > > > > above. Refer Gita Chapter 2 verse 39 as follows:

> > > > > /

> > > > >

> > > > > The sloka you qoute is right, but your inference... Heres

what

> > Siva

> > > > > Purana says:/

> > > > > /

> > > > >

> > > > > */Siva Purana, Vishvesvara Samhita,2/*

> > > > > Because of remaining in eight types of bandhana, the soul is

> > called

> > > > > /Jeeva/. When a person is freed from these bondages, the

person

> > is

> > > > > called /Mukta.

> > > > > /

> > > > >

> > > > > /*Siva Purana, Vishvesvara Samhita,3*

> > > > > /Emancipation is the control of these bondages of prakriti

etc.

> > One

> > > > > trapped in these is called /Jeeva/, and one freed from them

is

> > > > called

> > > > > /Mukta./

> > > > >

> > > > > */Siva Purana, Vishvesvara Samhita,4/*

> > > > > /Prakriti /comprises of buddhi, ahamkara, gunaatmaka and

> > > > panchatanmatra.

> > > > > All these combined are called Prakriti.

> > > > >

> > > > > */Siva Purana, Vishvesvara Samhita,5/*

> > > > > These eight bondages are the body. The activities of this

body

> > are

> > > > > called the /karmas/.

> > > > >

> > > > > Later in sloka 8 Suta explains that due to karmas the soul

is

> > bound

> > > > by

> > > > > these eight bondages. So these are indeed the bondages and

they

> > are

> > > > > created due to Karma. The issue being that the bondages

> > themselves

> > > > can

> > > > > lead one to recreate the same karma again and again, just

as one

> > > > desire

> > > > > leads to a thousand more.

> > > > >

> > > > > /You wrote:

> > > > > ParamAtma is a collective of all the atmas. Concept of Chara

> > > > > karakas is only indicative of the separate identity

(Ahamkara)

> > of

> > > > > soul in the realm of relationships - led by the AK as a king

> > leads a

> > > > > kingdom. So AK has the job of understanding the realm of

> > > > > relationships with other atmas and thereby help the

attainment

> > of

> > > > > individuals' understanding of ParamAtma./

> > > > >

> > > > > Yes, once Sun atmakaraka's understand this within

themselves,

> > they

> > > > > should teach it to others.

> > > > > Looking forward to your reply.

> > > > >

> > > > > Yours sincerely,

> > > > >

> > > > > --

> > > > > Visti Larsen - SJC Guru

> > > > > Jaimini SJC - Denmark

> > > > > email: visti@ <visti@>

> > > > > For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: http://

> > > > srigaruda.com

> > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>

> > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>>

> > > > >

> > > > > yeeahoo_99 wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > || Om TAT SAT ||

> > > > > > Dear Visti,

> > > > > > Thanks for a good mail.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > Surely Surya is not Ahamkara, thats like saying that

Rahu is

> > > > Durga.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > How are you so sure about it? The question still remains

> > > > unanswered

> > > > > > i.e. how do you prove that Surya represents Ahamkara?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > The graha which 'represents' the bondage of ahamkara is

> > Surya.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > This brings up another question: i.e. if there is a

bondage of

> > > > > > Ahamkara at all?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Ahamkar is referred in Gita chapter 3, verse 27 as

follows:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > "All activities are being enacted by the senses of the

> > (Prakriti)

> > > > > > material nature without exception; but the unrealized,

> > deluded by

> > > > > > (AhamKara) false identification of being the body, thus

> > thinks:

> > > > "I am

> > > > > > the doer"

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > Ahamkara (surya), Manas (chandra), Prakriti (rahu),

> > > > Akasha(guru),

> > > > > > > Agni(mangala), Jala (shukra), Vayu (shani) and Prithvi

> > (budha)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > So lets begin with Eightfold-Prakriti of Krishna, your

> > reference

> > > > > > point itself is incorrect. Gita Chapter 7 sloka 4 states:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > "Earth, water, fire, air, ether, Manah, Buddhi, and

Ahamkara;

> > thus

> > > > > > these are the eightfold divisions of my Prakriti."

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Neither the five tattwas, Buddhi nor Manah can be

assigned to

> > Rahu

> > > > > > and thus Ahamkara is the only thing that can logically be

> > > > assigned to

> > > > > > Rahu. So the correct version of eightfold representation

of

> > > > Prakriti

> > > > > > is:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Buddhi (surya), Manah (chandra), Ahamkara (rahu),

> > Akasha(guru),

> > > > > > Agni(mangala), Jala (shukra), Vayu (shani) and Prithvi

(budha)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > Now, to overcome these eight bondages, there are EIGHT

ways

> > to

> > > > look

> > > > > > > at God through which we can be freed. For the Ahamkara

we

> > must

> > > > > > > look at God as Paramatman.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > There is ONLY ONE bondage and not Eight of them. Ahamkara

> > doesn't

> > > > > > cause bondage of atma as you have written, but Karma alone

> > causes

> > > > > > bondage of atma, and is not a part of eightfold-prakriti

> > referred

> > > > > > above. Refer Gita Chapter 2 verse 39 as follows:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > "O Arjuna! What has been declared to you this spiritual

> > > > intelligence

> > > > > > (Buddhih) according to the Samkhya (the path of

knowledge).

> > Now

> > > > > > listen to the teaching of Yoga (the path of selfless

action

> > > > combined

> > > > > > with devotion) by practising which the bondage of Karma is

> > > > overcome."

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Also, Chapter 3 verse 9 verifies that Karma causes

bondage:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > "O son of Kunti! In this world all actions, unless they

are

> > done

> > > > as

> > > > > > an offering to God (or as Yajna), become causes of

bondage.

> > > > > > Therefore, work for the sake of God without personal

> > attachments."

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Chapter 3 verse 31 cross-verfies it as follows:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > "Whoever follow this teaching of mine, with their minds

full

> > of

> > > > faith

> > > > > > and free from disparagement, they also are released from

the

> > > > bondage

> > > > > > of reactions from Actions (Karma)."

> > > > > >

> > > > > > That liberation is attained by knowing the correct way of

> > acting

> > > > is

> > > > > > given in Chapter 4 verse 16:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > "What is (karma) action and what is (akarma) 'non-

action', is

> > a

> > > > > > subject regarding which even the wise are perplexed. I

shall

> > > > > > therefore speak to you about (Karma)work, by knowing which

> > one is

> > > > > > liberated from evil (or the life of bondage in Samsara)"

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The reason for liberation is written as Chapter 5 verse 3:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > "It should be known, O mighty-armed one! That one who

neither

> > > > > > disdains nor desires fruits of actions, should be known

as one

> > > > > > established in renunciation. Certainly, that person being

free

> > > > from

> > > > > > all dualities is easily liberated from bondage."

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > For the Ahamkara we must look at God as Paramatman.

This is

> > the

> > > > > > > remedy itself. And the specific form of Shiva

> > > > > > > who will help us realize this is Ishana for the Sun.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Please understand that Ahamkara is not a disease that we

look

> > for

> > > > > > remedies to it. It is the eightfold prakriti of Krishna.

> > > > Otherwise,

> > > > > > mind, buddhi, and pancha-tattwas will also need to be

> > remedied.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > And among those born with Surya as atmakaraka we have

> > grades of

> > > > > > > those being fully engrossed in ahamkara vs. having

complete

> > > > control

> > > > > > > of ahamkara.

> > > > > > I am not sure what you mean by complete control of

Ahamkara,

> > > > > > because one who has complete control of his manas and has

> > buddhi

> > > > > > devoted to Krishna - realizes his divine nature of

> > > > "AhamBrahmaAsmi"

> > > > > > and gets freed from the bondage of Karma.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > Divine souls like Vivekananda, Ramakrishna

> > > > > > > Paramahamsa and Sri Krishna being at one end of the

scale.

> > With

> > > > > > > fellows like Donald Trump, Adolph Hitler (exalted surya

> > yuti AK)

> > > > > > >and others at the other end of the scale.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Liberation is caused by the development of divine/demoniac

> > nature,

> > > > > > Chapter 16 Verse 5:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > "The divine nature is considered the cause of liberation

and

> > the

> > > > > > demoniac nature the cause of bondage. Grieve not, O son of

> > Pandu!

> > > > You

> > > > > > are born of the divine nature."

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > So please don't make the equation that everyone with

Surya

> > > > > > > atmakaraka is Paramatman. That would be quite delusional

> > > > indeed...

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Even as paramatman is Omnipresent, it is not possible to

say

> > that

> > > > > > any mortal being is apart from paramatman, whether it be

> > Surya AK

> > > > in

> > > > > > a specific context. In any case, no such equation about

> > > > > > Atmakaraka and Paramatma has been made by me.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The only question asked is about how "Surya" represents

> > Ahamkara,

> > > > > > devoid of any Chara Karaka Status whatsoever. You should

have

> > > > read my

> > > > > > mail more thoroughly to have not missed the point that was

> > being

> > > > made.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ParamAtma is a collective of all the atmas. Concept of

Chara

> > > > > > karakas is only indicative of the separate identity

> > (Ahamkara) of

> > > > > > soul in the realm of relationships - led by the AK as a

king

> > > > leads a

> > > > > > kingdom. So AK has the job of understanding the realm of

> > > > > > relationships with other atmas and thereby help the

> > attainment of

> > > > > > individuals' understanding of ParamAtma.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Finally, about the points you made:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > As proved earlier, Surya as representing Buddhi of the

eight-

> > fold

> > > > > > Prakriti of Krishna - is referred to as ParamAtma in a

chart

> > by

> > > > > > Jyotish Texts, whatever be the Chara AtmaKaraka. That

Buddhi/

> > > > > > intelligence in creatures is Krishna is verified by Gita

> > Chapter

> > > > 10,

> > > > > > sloka 22:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > "Of the Vedas, I am the Sama Veda; among the Devas, I am

> > Indra; of

> > > > > > the senses, I am the mind; and in living beings, I am

> > > > intelligence."

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > See, the devatas reside in svarga loka and this

corresponds

> > to

> > > > the

> > > > > > > nakshatras.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Jyotish tells that constellations are overlorded by

luminary

> > Moon

> > > > > > and Moon derives its luminosity from Sun. Therefore, as a

> > > > consequence

> > > > > > the concept of devatas associated with the swarga of

> > > > constellations

> > > > > > is derived from the luminosity of the radiant Sun and any

> > > > spiritual

> > > > > > blessings obtained by worshipping devatas of Swarga loka

are

> > > > easily

> > > > > > obtained by worshipping Sun as Paramatma.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > Using that equation we could say that Aditya, Shiva and

> > Agni are

> > > > > > > all Surya... Taking a line from your mail we are

actually

> > saying

> > > > > > > that Vishnu being an aditya is Surya?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Yes. Surya as ParamAtma is only ONE and manifests as

> > multitude of

> > > > > > Aditya, Shiva and Agni, depending upon the concept you

see him

> > > > > > aligned with, i.e. signs, or nakshatra or any other

divisions

> > > > > > respectively.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > Obviously both of us know better than that.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Now we do.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > nitish

> > > > > >

> > > > > > sohamsa

<sohamsa%40>

> > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > <sohamsa%40>,

> > > > > > Visti Larsen <visti@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > ??? ??? ??????

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Nitish, Namaskar

> > > > > > > Thank you for your reply.

> > > > > > > Surely Surya is not Ahamkara, thats like saying that

Rahu is

> > > > Durga.

> > > > > > > Using that equation we could say that Aditya, Shiva and

> > Agni are

> > > > > > all

> > > > > > > Surya... Taking a line from your mail we are actually

saying

> > > > that

> > > > > > Vishnu

> > > > > > > being an aditya is Surya? Obviously both of us know

better

> > than

> > > > > > that.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > See, the devatas reside in svarga loka and this

corresponds

> > to

> > > > the

> > > > > > > nakshatras. The grahas through their transit of the

> > nakshatras

> > > > are

> > > > > > > actually eclipsing them and thus certain forms of

devatas

> > come

> > > > as

> > > > > > > indicating by 1) the graha eclipsing. 2) the nakshatra

it

> > > > eclipses.

> > > > > > > Since nakshatras are the basis of the rasi chart, we can

> > find

> > > > based

> > > > > > on

> > > > > > > the state of a graha the actual devata represented by

it.

> > But

> > > > its

> > > > > > only a

> > > > > > > representation as the Grahas themselves are not devatas.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The graha which 'represents' the bondage of ahamkara is

> > Surya,

> > > > just

> > > > > > as

> > > > > > > the graha representing the bondage of the mind is Moon.

And

> > > > among

> > > > > > those

> > > > > > > born with Surya as atmakaraka we have grades of those

being

> > > > fully

> > > > > > > engrossed in ahamkara vs. having complete control of

> > ahamkara.

> > > > > > Divine

> > > > > > > souls like Vivekananda, Ramakrishna Paramahamsa and Sri

> > Krishna

> > > > > > being at

> > > > > > > one end of the scale. With fellows like Donald Trump,

Adolph

> > > > Hitler

> > > > > > > (exalted surya yuti AK) and others at the other end of

the

> > > > scale.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Now, to overcome these eight bondages, there are EIGHT

ways

> > to

> > > > look

> > > > > > at

> > > > > > > God through which we can be freed. For the Ahamkara we

must

> > > > look at

> > > > > > God

> > > > > > > as Paramatman. This is the remedy itself. And the

specific

> > form

> > > > of

> > > > > > Shiva

> > > > > > > who will help us realize this is Ishana for the Sun.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > So please don't make the equation that everyone with

Surya

> > > > > > atmakaraka is

> > > > > > > Paramatman. That would be quite delusional indeed...

Infact

> > the

> > > > > > concept

> > > > > > > of Paramatma is the means to which the Surya atmakaraka

> > will be

> > > > > > freed of

> > > > > > > his/her ahamkara.

> > > > > > > Looking forward to your reply.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Yours sincerely,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > --

> > > > > > > Visti Larsen - SJC Guru

> > > > > > > Jaimini SJC - Denmark

> > > > > > > email: visti@ <visti@>

> > > > > > > For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: http:/

/

> > > > > > srigaruda.com

> > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>

> > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>

> > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com> <http://

srigaruda.com

> > <http://srigaruda.com>>>>

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > yeeahoo_99 wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > || OM TAT SAT||

> > > > > > > > Dear Visti,

> > > > > > > > How do you prove that Ahamkara is represented by

Surya ?

> > > > Either

> > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > mean to say that Lord Krishna represents Ahamkara

going by

> > > > Gita

> > > > > > > > Chapter 10 verse 21:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > "Of the tweleve adityas I am vishnu, of all

luminaries the

> > > > radiant

> > > > > > > > Sun , of the seven Maruts I am marichi, and of the

> > > > constellations

> > > > > > I am

> > > > > > > > the Moon."

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Are you saying that Sura/Surya group of planets are

lead

> > by

> > > > Surya

> > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > Ahamkara?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Are you saying that the Vedas adoring Surya Narayan

as a

> > > > witness

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > all actions (Sakshi) is an individuality creating

Ahamkara

> > > > > > Principle

> > > > > > > > and not an impersonal transcendental intelligence

> > principle?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Please explain why Surya as Ahamkara should be

referred

> > to as

> > > > > > > > Paramatma, the soul of all and `Jagadaikha

chakshusay',

> > the

> > > > eye

> > > > > > of the

> > > > > > > > three worlds?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > > > nitish

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > sohamsa

> > <sohamsa%40>

> > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > > <sohamsa%40>,

> > > > > > > > Visti Larsen <visti@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > ??? ??? ??????

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Dear List, Namaskar

> > > > > > > > > Why hasn't anyone started talking about the eight

> > bondages

> > > > of

> > > > > > the atma?

> > > > > > > > > Ahamkara (surya), Manas (chandra), Prakriti (rahu),

> > Akasha

> > > > > > (guru), Agni

> > > > > > > > > (mangala), Jala (shukra), Vayu (shani) and Prithvi

> > (budha).

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > And how these eight bondages map into the eight

spokes

> > of

> > > > the

> > > > > > kala

> > > > > > > > > chakra, which are simultaneously the eight spokes

of the

> > > > > > anahata chakra.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Really any talk on the atma and its EIGHT karakas is

> > futile

> > > > > > without any

> > > > > > > > > of this.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Yours sincerely,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > --

> > > > > > > > > Visti Larsen - SJC Guru

> > > > > > > > > Jaimini SJC - Denmark

> > > > > > > > > email: visti@ <visti@>

> > > > > > > > > For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit:

> > > > > > > > http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>

> > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>

> > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com> <http://

srigaruda.com

> > <http://srigaruda.com>>> <http://

> > > > srigaruda.com

> > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>

> > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>>>

> > > > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>

> > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>

> > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com> <http://

srigaruda.com

> > <http://srigaruda.com>>>

> > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>

> > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>> <http://

> > srigaruda.com

> > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>>>>

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Promila Chitkara wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > Hello Sharat,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Do you not think that "serving others" comes

naturally

> > > > only

> > > > > > to a

> > > > > > > > > > handful people? There maybe people who want to

serve

> > their

> > > > > > families;

> > > > > > > > > > however, that is not selfless service in the true

> > sense of

> > > > > > the term.

> > > > > > > > > > Because we know very well that in happiness and

> > > > contentment

> > > > > > of our

> > > > > > > > > > families lies our happiness and growth! So it's

purely

> > > > > > selfish.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > P

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Sharat <gidoc@>

> > > > > > > > > > sohamsa

> > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > > > > > > Thursday, August 30, 2007 2:23:04 AM

> > > > > > > > > > Re: Re: Jupiter as AK (to

Tijanaji,

> > > > Nitish

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > v_reality)

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > ||Namah Shivaya||

> > > > > > > > > > Dear Sundeep,

> > > > > > > > > > Good observations, I was following this thread as

> > well but

> > > > > > really

> > > > > > > > > > found the ' ego ' bit coming in too quickly.

> > > > > > > > > > English words cant describe so well ' ahankar '

and '

> > > > aham'

> > > > > > which are

> > > > > > > > > > different and I agree that one cannot see this

only in

> > > > Sun AK.

> > > > > > > > However

> > > > > > > > > > as you say, Sun AK needs to learn to serve others

as

> > it

> > > > does

> > > > > > not come

> > > > > > > > > > naturally to them. And you cant take ' I ' away

from

> > them

> > > > so

> > > > > > easily

> > > > > > > > > > but perhaps if one wants to merge with Paramatma,

then

> > > > the '

> > > > > > I '

> > > > > > > > will

> > > > > > > > > > have to merge in to ' Him '.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Best

> > > > > > > > > > Sharat

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > -

> > > > > > > > > > ** vedicastrostudent

<vedicastrostudent@>

> > > > > > > > > > *To:* sohamsa@ .com

> > > > > > <sohamsa

> > <sohamsa%40>

> > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>>

> > > > > > > > > > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 29, 2007 8:56 PM

> > > > > > > > > > *Subject:* Re: Jupiter as AK (to

Tijanaji,

> > > > Nitish

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > v_reality)

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Dear Tijanaji and Nitish,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I have been reading your exchange with interest

in the

> > > > hope of

> > > > > > > > > > learning something new, but I find myself

disagreeing

> > > > subtly

> > > > > > > > in the

> > > > > > > > > > essence of what you say. In fact, deep down in the

> > > > exchange I

> > > > > > find

> > > > > > > > > > this statement made by "v_reality" which makes a

lot

> > of

> > > > sense

> > > > > > > > to me:

> > > > > > > > > > "Can this also be understood at a different level

as

> > the

> > > > > > > > effacement

> > > > > > > > > > of 'self' in a spiritual sense?".

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Here is my take - I have none of the scriptural

> > knowledge

> > > > you

> > > > > > both

> > > > > > > > > > have, only I have seen several Sun AK people: I

dont

> > > > think it

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > fair to say that Sun AK people are egotistic. See,

> > English

> > > > > > > > also has

> > > > > > > > > > a lot of words which have subtly different

meanings,

> > and

> > > > the

> > > > > > right

> > > > > > > > > > one has to be used. An egotistic person is one who

> > has a

> > > > > > > > exaggerated

> > > > > > > > > > sense of self-importance. Almost everyone in this

> > world

> > > > has

> > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > (and you are fooling yourself if you deny it), it

is

> > plain

> > > > > > > > wrong to

> > > > > > > > > > observe a person have Sun AK and simultaneously

> > observe

> > > > that

> > > > > > > > he also

> > > > > > > > > > has an exaggerated sense of self importance and

say

> > "yes,

> > > > > > that is

> > > > > > > > > > what the Sun AK does to him". I can cite hundreds

of

> > > > people I

> > > > > > know

> > > > > > > > > > who are very self important and DONT have Sun AK,

and

> > not

> > > > only

> > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > may not even have a strong Sun in their chart.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I personally think the only statement that can be

> > observed

> > > > > > > > > > repeatedly with Sun AK people is that they are

> > egocentric

> > > > i.e.

> > > > > > > > their

> > > > > > > > > > view of the world is based on the individual

rather

> > than

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > society. They may or may not be egotistical (i.e.

> > > > > > > > egocentricity does

> > > > > > > > > > not imply self importance) - the AK simply makes

them

> > go

> > > > > > through

> > > > > > > > > > experiences in life such that their core self is

> > tested.

> > > > How

> > > > > > they

> > > > > > > > > > respond to it depends probably on lots of other

> > > > astrological

> > > > > > > > > > factors. The only statement I can safely make,

based

> > on

> > > > pure

> > > > > > > > > > experience, is that Sun AK people are guided to

> > divinity

> > > > > > through

> > > > > > > > > > experiences of the self, consequently their view

is

> > > > > > egocentric.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I know one Sun AK woman (dont know if I can share

her

> > > > data)

> > > > > > > > who was

> > > > > > > > > > molested (by her own professor) and denied a

higher

> > degree

> > > > > > > > that she

> > > > > > > > > > worked hard for, then get married and then

divorced,

> > then

> > > > > > have her

> > > > > > > > > > mom die of cancer in a rather painful way, then

have

> > her

> > > > > > > > brother get

> > > > > > > > > > divorced in a messy lawsuit (and then leave her

too),

> > then

> > > > > > > > (she) get

> > > > > > > > > > married again and her husband develop terminal

cancer

> > very

> > > > > > soon

> > > > > > > > > > afterward. Net result: she cant seem to find a

strong

> > and

> > > > > > > > consistent

> > > > > > > > > > support outside of herself - she has become self

> > reliant

> > > > and

> > > > > > only

> > > > > > > > > > finds consistent happiness in meditation/reiki.

She is

> > > > > > probably

> > > > > > > > > > egotistical in some degree too, but not in any

> > outstanding

> > > > > > way at

> > > > > > > > > > all, and probably much less than all the people

around

> > > > her..

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Consequently, I really dispute the fact that Sun

AK

> > people

> > > > > > must

> > > > > > > > > > learn to "reduce their ego". That is simply a

general

> > > > lesson

> > > > > > > > for all

> > > > > > > > > > of mankind. Sun AK people's AK will guide them

towards

> > > > > > divinity

> > > > > > > > > > through experiences that make them focus on

> > themselves and

> > > > > > search

> > > > > > > > > > for the truth: now that's the statement I find

much

> > more

> > > > to

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > point.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Comments?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Thanks,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Sundeep

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com

> > > > > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>, nix nixen

> > <nix_nixen@

> > > > ..>

> > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > > > > Dear Nitish,

> > > > > > > > > > > Only from one simple statement of yours "It is

not

> > > > always

> > > > > > > > > > possible for me..." i read that your AK must be

> > nothing

> > > > less

> > > > > > than

> > > > > > > > > > Sun. Am i right? If yes, then i think i`m on the

right

> > > > way of

> > > > > > > > > > finding answers on my queries.

> > > > > > > > > > > Warm regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > Tijana

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > yeeahoo_99 <nitish.arya@ ...> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > Dear Tijana,

> > > > > > > > > > > Raja Yoga is the yoga of soul with paramatma -

deep/

> > > > shallow,

> > > > > > > > > > > material/spiritual - all kind of things have a

basis

> > > > only in

> > > > > > > > > > > paramatma. Thus, even Raja-bhanga yoga has a

basis

> > i.e.

> > > > > > > > separation

> > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > soul from paramatma (which is illusory only

though)

> > and

> > > > > > hence

> > > > > > > > > > > material/spiritual loss depending on the kind of

> > karma

> > > > > > involved.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > As the lord of a sign, a planet rules a 12th

part

> > of the

> > > > > > > > > > > consciousness, relatively . Thus, in part, it

> > becomes

> > > > its

> > > > > > > > > > > responsibility to guide the affairs of that

sign/

> > house

> > > > > > towards

> > > > > > > > > > > fulfillment. You may explore it further.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > It is not always possible for me to answer to

your

> > > > specific

> > > > > > > > > > queries.

> > > > > > > > > > > Hopefully, in time, you will discover the truth

of

> > your

> > > > > > queries.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > best regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > nitish

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com

> > > > > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>,

"tijanadamjanovic"

> > > > > > > > <nix_nixen@>

> > > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Nitish,

> > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, all must serve. The questions raised in

these

> > > > > > discussions

> > > > > > > > > > on Atma

> > > > > > > > > > > > karakas were on the specific way of serving.

> > > > > > > > > > > > If we say that Sun AK must learn principles of

> > artha

> > > > > > > > shastra to

> > > > > > > > > > serve,

> > > > > > > > > > > > the same stands for Ma and Ju AK? How to

> > > > differentiate? I

> > > > > > > > assume

> > > > > > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > > > > > are taking karakatvas of the houses into

account

> > also

> > > > > > > > (2nd, 6th,

> > > > > > > > > > 10th)?

> > > > > > > > > > > > The Sun/Raja gets service on the throne, but

> > regarding

> > > > > > > > > > spirituality

> > > > > > > > > > > > and Atma this is related to real Raja yoga

whose

> > > > deepest

> > > > > > > > meaning

> > > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > > inseparable from 10th house of indriyas (refer

> > > > > > Vivekananda) .

> > > > > > > > > > Only in

> > > > > > > > > > > > that sense we can talk of Janaka or the

perfect

> > King.

> > > > What

> > > > > > > > artha

> > > > > > > > > > > > shastra principles you had in mind?

> > > > > > > > > > > > Warm regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > Tijana

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com

> > > > > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>,

> > > > > > "yeeahoo_99" <nitish.arya@ >

> > > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > || Om TAT SAT ||

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Tijana,

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > To fulfill ones own dharma is what you

> > probably

> > > > had in

> > > > > > > > mind

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > mentioning Gita in this context.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Context that was intended is Gita Chapter

> > 3,sloka

> > > > 22.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > All must work if the lord of the cosmos has

> > chosen

> > > > to

> > > > > > work.

> > > > > > > > > > Thus,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > there is nothing specific that only SUN AK

has

> > to

> > > > > > > > "serve", all

> > > > > > > > > > AKs

> > > > > > > > > > > > > "serve".

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > But, are you implying that Sun AK gives a

> > person

> > > > akin

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > Janaka?!

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, Sun AK gives a person akin to Janaka -

> > > > jivanmukta -

> > > > > > > > > > provided

> > > > > > > > > > > > > enough effort has been put in.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you determing dharma based on this?

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > No, Sun AK need not be 9th lord.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Will you advise Sun AK people to take

> > > > Dhartharastra

> > > > > > as an

> > > > > > > > > > example!

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > The attitude of service is seen from 6th

house.

> > Leo

> > > > > > being a

> > > > > > > > > > dharma

> > > > > > > > > > > > > trikona sign fulfills its purpose of service

> > through

> > > > > > 10th

> > > > > > > > > > house of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Artha, which is 6th from it. So a Sun AK

should

> > > > learn

> > > > > > > > > > principles of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > artha shastra to serve.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, again, what Raja will hardly ever do

is

> > > > serving.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > All souls have to "Serve" only as there is

> > nothing

> > > > else

> > > > > > > > to be

> > > > > > > > > > done

> > > > > > > > > > > > > in the three worlds because Krishna has

already

> > > > achieved

> > > > > > > > > > everything

> > > > > > > > > > > > > that is there to achieve in the three

> > worlds(refer

> > > > > > Gita).

> > > > > > > > > > Those who

> > > > > > > > > > > > > do not serve, are reborn to learn to serve,

> > > > whatever be

> > > > > > > > their

> > > > > > > > > > AK.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda` s Dharm bhava lord was

Sun

> > AK

> > > > in

> > > > > > > > lagna in

> > > > > > > > > > Dhanus

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > (extraordinary combination for unselfish

> > giving by

> > > > > > > > itself).

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > But do you think it`s a coincidence that

His

> > > > Master

> > > > > > had

> > > > > > > > > > exalted

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn in 9th

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > bhava and Rahu AK? What do you think, why

even

> > > > Swami

> > > > > > > > needed

> > > > > > > > > > these?

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > One is not re-born after exhausting his

karma/

> > > > desires.

> > > > > > Thus,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > vivekananda (Rahu PiK) came here to exhaust

his

> > > > > > remaining

> > > > > > > > > > karma/

> > > > > > > > > > > > > desires with Ramakrishna (Rahu AK). There

is no

> > more

> > > > > > > > substance

> > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > this than a past-life karmic relationship of

> > the two

> > > > > > which

> > > > > > > > > > continued

> > > > > > > > > > > > > in this birth also.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > NITISH

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com

> > > > > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>,

> > "tijana" <nix_nixen@>

> > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Nitish,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your elaboration would be even more

brilliant

> > if

> > > > you

> > > > > > had

> > > > > > > > > > just answer

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > my question.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > To fulfill ones own dharma is what you

> > probably

> > > > had in

> > > > > > > > mind

> > > > > > > > > > > > > mentioning

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gita in this context. But, are you

implying

> > that

> > > > Sun

> > > > > > AK

> > > > > > > > > > gives a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > person akin to Janaka?! Are you determing

> > dharma

> > > > > > based on

> > > > > > > > > > this? Will

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > you advise Sun AK people to take

> > Dhartharastra as

> > > > an

> > > > > > > > > > example!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, again, what Raja will hardly ever do

is

> > > > serving.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda` s Dharm bhava lord was

Sun

> > AK

> > > > in

> > > > > > > > lagna in

> > > > > > > > > > Dhanus

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > (extraordinary combination for unselfish

> > giving by

> > > > > > > > itself).

> > > > > > > > > > But do

> > > > > > > > > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > think it`s a coincidence that His Master

had

> > > > exalted

> > > > > > > > Saturn

> > > > > > > > > > in 9th

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > bhava and Rahu AK? What do you think, why

even

> > > > Swami

> > > > > > > > needed

> > > > > > > > > > these?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Warm regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tijana

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com

> > > > > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>,

> > > > > > "yeeahoo_99" <nitish.arya@ >

> > > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > || Om Tat Sat ||

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Tijana,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What is the thing that Raja will

hardly

> > ever

> > > > do?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read up Gita, arthashastra and ancient

texts

> > > > that

> > > > > > show

> > > > > > > > > > what

> > > > > > > > > > > > > all a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raja has to do to ensure that his

subjects

> > are

> > > > > > protected

> > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > progress

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > on the upward evolutionary path. Look at

> > > > krishna,

> > > > > > Janaka

> > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ChandraGupta Maurya and you will

understand

> > > > whatever

> > > > > > > > > > that "hardly

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ever do" equates to.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Otherwise, going by your statement, AK

> > wouldn't

> > > > do

> > > > > > > > > > anything

> > > > > > > > > > > > > being

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the king of the horoscope and the rest

of

> > the

> > > > > > > > karakas (BK,

> > > > > > > > > > PiK,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Puk,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GK) i.e. his subjects will follow the

suit!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, the mantra is "Shiva jnane

Jiva

> > > > > > Seva" (serving

> > > > > > > > > > every

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > being as the full manifestation of God)

that

> > > > > > > > Narendranath

> > > > > > > > > > > > > received

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from his Master Ramakrishna who had Sun

in

> > > > Aquarius.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Being Sun AK, Vivekananda had developed

> > peculiar

> > > > > > > > sharpness

> > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > perception and assimilation that

empowered

> > him

> > > > with

> > > > > > > > > > unusual power

> > > > > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pick up 'the gems' from the talks of his

> > Master.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With Sun in Sagittarius, he could, as

> > compared

> > > > to

> > > > > > > > others,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > easily

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'see' the deep meaning in the words of

Sri

> > > > > > Ramakrishna,

> > > > > > > > > > even

> > > > > > > > > > > > > though

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the Master told them in simple language

(Aq

> > > > Sun),

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > never as

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > preaching.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With its dispositor Jupiter in Libra,

> > gradually

> > > > > > Swami

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Vivekananda

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > started assimilating tips and hints on

> > practical

> > > > > > Vedanta

> > > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > > > could

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > benefit individual and collective life

in

> > the

> > > > > > society.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "...For spiritual persons Sun as AK

> > should be

> > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > Jupiter`s

> > > > > > > > > > > > > signs

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (Shiva jnane...), otherwise it`s very

hard

> > > > > > task..."

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Putting up statements like you have

done is

> > not

> > > > > > > > wise. Sri

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Yukteswar

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Giri, has Sun AK placed in Aries and had

> > > > attained

> > > > > > > > highest

> > > > > > > > > > level

> > > > > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > spirituality. Even if Sun AK is placed

in

> > > > Libra, it

> > > > > > > > could

> > > > > > > > > > be the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > most

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > spiritual person.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AK shows the spiritual power of a sign

over

> > the

> > > > > > rest of

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > signs/

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets in the chart and this spiritual

> > power

> > > > > > manifests

> > > > > > > > > > through

> > > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dispositor of AK and its sign placement.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NITISH

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com

> > > > > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>,

> > "tijana" <nix_nixen@>

> > > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Su,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun is the Self. Its qualities are

those

> > of

> > > > Raja

> > > > > > > > (karaka

> > > > > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > first house, lord of the 5th, dig

bala in

> > > > 10th).

> > > > > > > > What is

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > thing

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that Raja will hardly ever do? The

lesson

> > > > that has

> > > > > > > > to be

> > > > > > > > > > learnt

> > > > > > > > > > > > > by

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun AK is serving, in the highest

sence it

> > > > gives

> > > > > > > > "Shiva

> > > > > > > > > > jnane

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Shiva

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > seva" (service of man as God)-the

divine

> > > > lesson

> > > > > > > > given to

> > > > > > > > > > us by

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vivekananda (Sun AK). For spiritual

> > persons

> > > > Sun

> > > > > > as AK

> > > > > > > > > > should be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter`s signs (Shiva jnane...),

> > otherwise

> > > > it`s

> > > > > > very

> > > > > > > > > > hard task.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Warm regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tijana

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com

> > > > > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>, "v

> > > > reality" <reality_v@>

> > > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Bojan-ji

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for your reply. Much

> > appreciated.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If I may ask another query re Sun

AK.

> > The

> > > > lesson

> > > > > > > > to be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > learnt

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun AK,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is the reduction of ego. Can this

also

> > be

> > > > > > understood

> > > > > > > > > > at a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > different level

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as the effacement of 'self' in a

> > spiritual

> > > > > > sense?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Su

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Bojan Vidakovic <janbovid@>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >sohamsa@ .com

> > > > > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >sohamsa@ .com

> > > > > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Re: Jupiter as

AK

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Wed, 22 Aug 2007 08:33:22 -

0700

> > (PDT)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >HARE RAMA KRISHNA

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Dear Su

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I would add that with Gu AK person

> > have to

> > > > be

> > > > > > very

> > > > > > > > > > humble to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > all

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > spiritual

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >techers and natives, like priests,

> > gurus,

> > > > > > teachers.

> > > > > > > > > > With Ma

> > > > > > > > > > > > > AK

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > person must

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >practise Ahumsa (nonviolence) ,

with

> > Ch the

> > > > > > > > native is

> > > > > > > > > > always

> > > > > > > > > > > > > very

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > caring,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >and gives emotions but the problem

is

> > that

> > > > they

> > > > > > > > never

> > > > > > > > > > get

> > > > > > > > > > > > > enough

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >themselves from other people. The

> > person

> > > > must

> > > > > > learn

> > > > > > > > > > lessons

> > > > > > > > > > > > > also

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >people represented with AK. Ch /

> > mother,

> > > > Sy /

> > > > > > > > father

> > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > everything those

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >grahas represent.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Take few examples of people you

know

> > and

> > > > see

> > > > > > it in

> > > > > > > > > > praxix.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Best

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wishes,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Bojan

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Hari Om Tat Sat

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@ >

wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hraum namah adityaya

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Su,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Person should use a lot of glass

and

> > sing/

> > > > hum

> > > > > > > > > > melodies.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rafal Gendarz

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > email: rafal@

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > v reality napisaÅ,(a): Dear

Rafalji/

> > > > Members

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is an interesting discussion.

> > Could

> > > > we

> > > > > > > > discuss

> > > > > > > > > > other

> > > > > > > > > > > > > AKs

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > too. I read

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in an article that natives with

Moon

> > as AK

> > > > > > need to

> > > > > > > > > > learn

> > > > > > > > > > > > > to be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > more

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >caring

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and loving to others. But I know

of a

> > > > chart

> > > > > > where

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > native

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > already

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >by

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nature very caring, loving and

> > concerned

> > > > about

> > > > > > > > > > others

> > > > > > > > > > > > > since

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > young. So

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >what

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is the lesson to be learnt?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Su

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@

> > wp.pl>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >sohamsa@

.com

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >sohamsa@ .com

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Re: Jupiter

as AK

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Wed, 22 Aug 2007 10:24:14

+0200

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *hraum namah adityaya*

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Dear LN Kumar,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >With Ju AK person should learn to

> > respect

> > > > > > others

> > > > > > > > > > > > > knowledge

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >tradition,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >should be ready to learn from

others.

> > > > When Ju

> > > > > > > > is in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > kendra to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AK or is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >AK

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >himself then native thinks that

he

> > knows

> > > > > > > > everything

> > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > now

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can share

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >His knowledge with everybody.

Good

> > > > teachers

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > course

> > > > > > > > > > > > > comes

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >AK-Jupiter- Natives, as this

graha

> > will

> > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > naturally in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karakamsa.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >With MA AK person should learn to

> > > > catalyze

> > > > > > > > energies

> > > > > > > > > > > > > through

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ZEN, TAI-CHI

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >or

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >other techniques, while with JU

AK

> > person

> > > > > > should

> > > > > > > > > > learn to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > more humble

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >regarding knowledge. Of course

person

> > > > can be

> > > > > > > > > > focused on

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter-

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karakas

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >like kids, spirituality, law,

luck

> > etc.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Mahadasa of AK brings lesson to

us

> > so its

> > > > > > not so

> > > > > > > > > > easy

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > materially but

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >inspiring spiritually, so if

Surya

> > is in

> > > > good

> > > > > > > > > > placement

> > > > > > > > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AK

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > then it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >can

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >be not so bad as person is

spiritual.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Rafal Gendarz

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >narender kumar napisa?(a):

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>Dear Gurujans,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>Kindly throw some light on

Jupiter

> > as

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>Atmakaraka and having Jupiter as

> > > > mahadasha.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>Respectful Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>LN Kumar

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>__________ __ _________

_________

> > > > _________

> > > > > > > > > > _________

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________ _

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>Take the Internet to Go:

Go

> > puts

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > Internet in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > your

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pocket:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >mail,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>news, photos & more.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>http://mobile. <http://mobile./

> > <http://mobile./>

> > > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>>

> > > > > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./> <http://mobile./

> > <http://mobile./>>>

> > > > > > > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./> <http://mobile./

> > <http://mobile./>> <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>

> > > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>>>>> /

> > > > > > > > > > go?refer= 1GNXIC

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >><http://mobile. <http://

mobile./

> > <http://mobile./>

> > > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>>

> > > > > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./> <http://mobile./

> > <http://mobile./>>>

> > > > > > > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./> <http://mobile./

> > <http://mobile./>> <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>

> > > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>>>>> /

> > > > > > > > > > go?refer= 1GNXIC>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________

> > _________

> > > > > > > > _________

> > > > > > > > > > > > > _________

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Advertisement: It's simple! Sell

your

> > car

> > > > for

> > > > > > just

> > > > > > > > > > $30 at

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > CarPoint.com.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >au

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://a.ninemsn. <http://

a.ninemsn./

> > <http://a.ninemsn./>

> > > > <http://a.ninemsn./ <http://a.ninemsn./>>

> > > > > > <http://a.ninemsn./ <http://a.ninemsn./> <http://

a.ninemsn./

> > <http://a.ninemsn./>>>

> > > > > > > > <http://a.ninemsn./ <http://a.ninemsn./>

> > <http://a.ninemsn./ <http://a.ninemsn./>> <http://

> > a.ninemsn./

> > > > <http://a.ninemsn./ <http://a.ninemsn./>>>>> com.au/b.

> > > > > > > > > > aspx?URL= http%3A%2F%

> > > > > > > > > > > > > 2Fsecure%

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >2Dau%2Eimrworldw ide%2Ecom%

> > 2Fcgi%2Dbin%

> > > > > > 2Fa%2Fci%

> > > > > > > > > > 5F450304%

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2Fet%

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5F2%

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >2Fcg%5F801459% 2Fpi%5F1004813%

> > > > 2Fai%5F859641 &

> > > > > > > > > > _t=762955845 &

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _r=tig_AUG07 &

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_m=EXT

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Best wishes,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SJC Guru Bojan Vidakovic

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for articles and consultations

visit

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >http://www.jataveda s.com

> > > > > > > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/ <http://www.jatavedas.com/

>

> > <http://www.jatavedas.com/ <http://www.jatavedas.com/>>

> > > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/ <http://www.jatavedas.com/>

> > <http://www.jatavedas.com/ <http://www.jatavedas.com/>>>

> > > > > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/ <http://www.jatavedas.com/>

> > <http://www.jatavedas.com/ <http://www.jatavedas.com/>>

> > > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/ <http://www.jatavedas.com/>

> > <http://www.jatavedas.com/ <http://www.jatavedas.com/>>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >----------- --------- --------- ---

-

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Choose the right car based on your

> > needs.

> > > > > > Check out

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Autos

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > new Car

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Finder tool.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________

> > _________

> > > > > > > > _________ _

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Advertisement: Make shopping

exciting.

> > Find

> > > > > > what you

> > > > > > > > > > want at

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > www.eBay.com. au

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://a.ninemsn. com.au/ <http://

> > > > > > a.ninemsn.com.au/

> > > > > > > > <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/ <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/>

> > <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/ <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/>>

> > > > <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/ <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/>

> > <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/ <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/>>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b.aspx?URL=http% 3A%2F%2Frover%

> > 2Eebay%2Ecom%

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2Frover%2F1% 2F705%2D10129%

2D5668%2D323%

> > > > > > 2F4%2F%3Fid%

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3D6 & _t=763807330 & _r=email_ taglines_

> > > > EBAY & _m=EXT

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ---

> > > > > > > > > > > Take the Internet to Go: Go puts the

Internet

> > in

> > > > your

> > > > > > > > > > pocket: mail, news, photos & more.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > ---------------------

----

> > > > > > > > > > Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel

answers

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://

> > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://>

> > answers./

> > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./

> > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./>>

> > > > dir/

> > > > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://

answers./

> > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./>

> > dir/

> > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./

dir/

> > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./dir/

>>>

> > > > > >

> > > >

> >

_ylc=X3oDMTI5MGx2aThyBF9TAzIxMTU1MDAzNTIEX3MDMzk2NTQ1MTAzBHNlYwNCQUJwaWxsYXJfTklfMzYwBHNsawNQcm9kdWN0X3F1ZXN0aW9uX3BhZ2U-?link=list & sid=396545469

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://

> > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://>

> > answers./

> > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./

> > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./>>

> > > > dir/

> > > > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://

answers./

> > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./>

> > dir/

> > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./

dir/

> > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./dir/

>>>

> > > > > >

> > > >

> >

_ylc=X3oDMTI5MGx2aThyBF9TAzIxMTU1MDAzNTIEX3MDMzk2NTQ1MTAzBHNlYwNCQUJwaWxsYXJfTklfMzYwBHNsawNQcm9kdWN0X3F1ZXN0aW9uX3BhZ2U-?link=list & sid=396545469>>from

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > someone who knows.

> > > > > > > > > > Answers - Check it out.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

हरे राम कृष्ण॥

Dear Nitish, Namaskar

This is my reply to your second mail. A combined response would make it

easier for both of us.

 

You wrote:

Sun is beyond the three gunas of Prakriti - as u rightly

pointed out

with reference to sattvic, rajasic, and tamasic buddhi. It exists as

the indestructible Cosmic intelligence aspect of God in creation (TAT

- refer chapter 15) and is one of the three beings there are, the

destructible being (OM) and the uttermost being, Purushottama (SAT)!

 

Visti: I didn't point this out, you misunderstood me. I was trying

to justify that the context within which you were interpreting Buddhi

is not justifiable from the perspective of Guna.

The Sun is not beyond the three Gunas... It is not Nir-guna. It is

Sa-guna as it indeed exists in the sky. Among the three Guna it is

Satvic by nature, but that is not a good reason for equating it with

Buddhi, as Buddhi need not be satvic.

There is also a concept of 'Satvic ahamkara' according to

Shankaracharya, then where does Rahu fit in this scheme if he cannot be

satvic?

Instead if the scheme were to be dependent on the function of the

planet in causing bondage, then we can come a long way. I.e. the Moon

is a satvic graha, but the mana of many incarnates in this world is far

from that. Instead we must know that the Moon causes the bondage of

having a mana, as it is through the contact with our mothers womb

during conception that the mana begins to be aware to begin with -

Varahamihira.

 

The ahamkara existed BEFORE the mana existed, as the ahamkara

follows the atma itself, and actually causes it to THINK that it is a

jeevatma. Hence, Shankaracharya in his commentary describes the

ahamkara as: By ahamkara, egoism, is meant the Unmanifest,

associated with (Cosmic) ignorrance. As food mixed with poison is

called poison, similarly the Unmanifest, which is the primordial Cause,

is called egoism since it is imbued with the impressions resulting from

egoism; and egoism is the impelling force (of all). It is indeed seen

in the world that egoism is the impelling cause behind all endeavour.

All the parenthesis' have been added by Swami Gambhirananda.

So, based on this commentary it seems clear that the ahamkara is the

first created from the shunya/unmanifest.

 

Now, this is how Shankaracharya describes Buddhi: By buddhih,

intellect, is meant the principle called mahat* which is the source of

egoism.

*Mahat means Hiranyagarbha, or Cosmic Intelligence. - Gambhirananda.

 

This is the Buddhi which I have tried to tell you about! After all,

how can any aspect of prakriti carry a purely auspicious

quality if prakriti exists only in this material abode, and NOT in the

non-material abode.

Now, see that Shankaracharya states that Buddhi is the actual cause of

the ahamkara to be created! Doesn't this sound like the veil of Rahu

over the Atma?

 

You wrote:

In truth, there is never an eclipse for Sun because the Cosmic

intelligence is indestructible and hence never does it stop

functioning/invisible/eclipsed

during a cycle of creation.

Visti: Cosmic intelligence exists as long as the creation exists,

that is why it is Hiranyagarbha. Hiranyagarbha has also been created.

Once there is no creation, then cosmic intelligence disappears.

 

Looking forward to your reply.

Yours sincerely,

 

 

--

 

Visti Larsen - SJC Guru

Jaimini SJC - Denmark

email: visti

For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: http://srigaruda.com

 

 

yeeahoo_99 wrote:

 

 

|| OM TAT SAT ||

Dear Visti,

Hope you are fine. You dont seem to be replying to my mail. Is it

so badly written?

My only objective was to bring out the truth for all including

myself, but, in doing so, the strong and long held beliefs of people

get hurt.

Am happy, that while writing these mails, i learnt much more than

what is visible, and this learning cannot happen in isolation. The

reason for my joining this list is to stay in touch.

Somehow, i always felt that people dont respond to the

mails/queries i send. May be it happens with everybody.

 

Just wanted to finish with this one incomplete statement from my

last mail:

 

"Karma is the only bandhana that Gita mentions, as Sri Krishna

couldn't have possibly missed/ignored the rest of the bandhanas as it

is His Apara-Prakriti.

 

Sun is beyond the three gunas of Prakriti - as u rightly pointed out

with reference to sattvic, rajasic, and tamasic buddhi. It exists as

the indestructible Cosmic intelligence aspect of God in creation (TAT

- refer chapter 15) and is one of the three beings there are, the

destructible being (OM) and the uttermost being, Purushottama (SAT)!

 

For purposes of learning souls on path to self-knowledge, Sun, in

Jyotish, is seen as identified with Sattvic Guna destructible Prakriti

for the deepest reasons**, thus creating a cause for it to be eclipsed

by Tamo Guna of Rahu (Ahamkara causing bodily rebirth).

 

In truth, there is never an eclipse for Sun because the Cosmic

intelligence is indestructible and hence never does it stop

functioning/invisible/eclipsed during a cycle of creation. An

eclipse

of Sattva Guna of Sun can only have the deepest learning for the

jeevatma as the acquisition of ultimate wisdom to go beyond the Gunas

of destructible Prakriti."

 

** A sharp intelligence is a blessing of God and a privilege given to

Human, that wise use for upliftment to Godhood, mediocre use for

fulfillment of their desires and ignorant use for self-destruction.

 

regards,

nitish

 

sohamsa ,

Visti Larsen <visti wrote:

>

> -------

> Re: Jupiter as AK (to Visti, Tijanaji, Nitish and

v_reality)

> Sun, 09 Sep 2007 14:41:01 -0000

> csna25 <csna25

> Visti Larsen <visti

>

>

> || OM TAT SAT ||

> Dear Visti,

> > Visti: Why does it include those who practice the

sohamsa-mantra

> yajna?

> Sohamsa is the mantra of breath - initiation a soul receives from

> Sri Krishna to progress on the path to evolution. This is the

> uninterrrupted only living parampara there is.

>

> >Visti: How can I know what Krishna meant? Thats why i cited

Adi

> >Shankaras commentary, and now you are giving your own

commentary.

> > Should i believe in your commentary or that of Adi Shankara?

>

> Chapter 6 sloka 5:

> uddharedatmanatmanam natmanamavasadayet

> atmaiva hyatmano bandhuratmaiva ripuratmanah -5-

>

> > You are equating Buddhi with a spiritual faculty, and this is

your

> > basis for equating Buddhi with the Sun. Your intent is clear

in

> > this. Then why didn't you equate Buddhi with Jupiter or Ketu?

 

> > Surely Ketu is much more spiritual than Sun.

>

> In eightfold-Prakriti, Jupiter represents Akash Tattwa.

> Ketu is not there in the scheme of Eightfold-Apara-prakriti,

as it

> would rather show a state after liberation from Prakriti.

> Rahu, being the literal/zodiacal/mathematical opposite of

Ketu,

> has Zero-affinity towards liberation of a being (as you wrote, it

> causes rebirth).

> Sun is the only graha that performs the role of Buddhi as a

> spiritual faculty.

>

> > Visti: Again, just because a PURE buddhi enhances ones

spiritual

> > efforts, it doesn't mean it is signified by the Sun.

>

> In the eight-fold scheme, Sun as PURE buddhi directs spiritual

> effort after Rahu has done its role of bringing the soul back to a

 

> physical body.

>

> > Again, the basis of this statement itself is doubtful, due to

which

> > you would have to equate Ketu with Buddhi based on your

> > statements. Based on what you have written how can you

classify

> > Buddhi as a Bandhana?

>

> Karma is the only bandhana that Gita mentions.

>

> > Visti: I don't think my Jyotish Guru is wrong. Also how do

you

> > justify that the bandhana has to be decided based on wisdom

of the

> > graha? Since when do Moon and Rahu not make spiritual

efforts? Moon

> > in eighth house makes the person meditate and perform

kundalini

> > yoga, whilst Rahu in tenth makes the person go on pilgrimages

and

> > visit tirthas. The Sun doesn't even meditate, he just has

faith and

> > goes to temple. Its Ketu who causes meditation, and its in

the

> > junction with Jupiter that he does so through a Guru, and its

 

> > junction with Venus does so indendently.

>

> Sun forms Shiva yoga with Ketu, and is exalted in constellation of

 

> Ketu. Mind doesnt make any spiritual effort but needs to be

> controlled (6:34).

>

> From KathaUpanishad (III.Up.I.2.3. -13 & 14.)

> 'The Chariot of the Body': The five horses represent the five

senses

> (tongue, eyes, nose, ears and skin). The rein symbolises the mind,

 

> the driver is the intelligence while the passenger is the jeevatma.

>

> http://fixedreference.org/2006-Wikipedia-CD-Selection/images/46/

> 4642.jpg

>

> In Mahabharata war scenario, Sri Krishna as driver of Arjunas'

> chariot is the guiding intelligence of the jeevatma and controller

of

> the reins of the mind. This is the most perfect example of Guru-

> Shishya relationship there is!

>

> regards,

> Nitish

>

> sohamsa ,

Visti Larsen <visti@> wrote:

> >

> > ??? ??? ??????

> >

> > Dear Nitish, Namaskar

> > Thank you for your reply.

> >

> > You wrote:

> > / Gita is the commentary of Parampara of Sri Krishna -

Arjuna, which

> > includes everybody that practices the sohamsa mantra yajna.

Thus,

> you

> > can benefit by reading it as it is the only living parampara

till

> > date.

> > /

> >

> > Visti: Why does it include those who practice the

sohamsa-mantra

> yajna?

> >

> > The Gita revived the Parampara's through Adi Shankara, as he

was

> the one

> > who brought it to the world, and it is one of his bhasyas.

But the

> Gita

> > itself is not a parampara, but the cause of all the other

> paramparas to

> > exist. Each Shankaracharya Mutt is a Parampara in itself and

> continues

> > to preach the vedas.

> >

> > Your statement denounces the importance of these Mutts. Are

you

> > practicing the Sohamsa mantra-yajna through Sri Sri Ravi

Shankar?

> He was

> > taught by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi and its well known that the

origin

> of

> > Maharishi is the Jyotirmutt, thus making your Parampara the

same.

> >

> > /You wrote:

> > A person who isn't fit to distinguish between what he ought or

> > ought not to do; do you think he is fit to practice

spirituality?

> Sri

> > Krishna is not really telling arjuna to practice materiality

> anyways.

> > /

> >

> > /If you don't understand the role of buddhi from this sloka,

Gita is

> > full of slokas that talk about buddhi as a spiritual faculty

(Sun),

> > unlike Ahamkara (Rahu)./

> >

> > Visti: How can I know what Krishna meant? Thats why i cited

Adi

> > Shankaras commentary, and now you are giving your own

commentary.

> Should

> > i believe in your commentary or that of Adi Shankara?

> >

> > You are equating Buddhi with a spiritual faculty, and this is

your

> basis

> > for equating Buddhi with the Sun. Your intent is clear in

this.

> > Then why didn't you equate Buddhi with Jupiter or Ketu?

Surely Ketu

> is

> > much more spiritual than Sun.

> >

> > /Chapter 3 sloka 1:

> > Arjuna asks:

> > "If Buddhi is greater than karma, Janardana

> > Then why give me the order to be in this intense fight?"

> >

> > Chapter 3 sloka 42:

> > Sri Krishna replies:

> > "In the body the senses are superior

> > >From the senses the mind is greater

> > >From the mind the intellect (buddhi) is superior and

> > Beyond the intellect is the Atman as the witness"/

> >

> > Visti: The word used in this sloka is not 'witness' but

'superior'.

> Also

> > the word 'Atma' is not from the translation, but from

> Shankaracharyas

> > commentary. The Atma is superior to the intellect, and in

this case

> it

> > refers to Angirasa's definition of Antaratma, and is called

'the

> self'

> > according to Shankara.

> >

> > /Chapter 4 sloka 5 tells that many births of mine and yours

have

> > passed.

> > Chapter 6 sloka 43:

> >

> > "Acquiring wisdom (BUDDHI-SAMYOGAM) revived from the previous

body

> > thereafter he endeavors once again for perfection."/

> >

> > Visti: Again, just because a PURE buddhi enhances ones

spiritual

> > efforts, it doesn't mean it is signified by the Sun.

> >

> > /> One could just as easily justify that since the main

cause of

> > > rebirth is Rahu, the stronger the bondage of Rahu, so

also the

> > > stronger the bondage of Buddhi and thus the eclipse

> > > of the Sun/spirituality.

> >

> > Do you still have doubts that Sun refers to Buddhi? Rahu

(Ahamkara)

> > and Moon (manas) don't make spiritual efforts.

> > Rahu cannot be considered to be wise, in this context, that

its

> > "rebirth-causing-//bondage-quality" be used to

achieve perfection

> and

> > liberation in this birth. It is only good at helping a

rebirth, not

> > helping to liberate - thus it is not doing the function of

Buddhi by

> > 6:43.

> > /

> >

> > Visti: I don't think my Jyotish Guru is wrong. Also how do

you

> justify

> > that the bandhana has to be decided based on wisdom of the

graha?

> > Since when do Moon and Rahu not make spiritual efforts? Moon

in

> eighth

> > house makes the person meditate and perform kundalini yoga,

whilst

> Rahu

> > in tenth makes the person go on pilgrimages and visit

tirthas. The

> Sun

> > doesn't even meditate, he just has faith and goes to temple.

Its

> Ketu

> > who causes meditation, and its in the junction with Jupiter

that he

> does

> > so through a Guru, and its junction with Venus does so

> independently.

> >

> > Again, the basis of this statement itself is doubtful, due to

which

> you

> > would have to equate Ketu with Buddhi based on your

statements.

> Based

> > on what you have written how can you classify Buddhi as a

Bandhana?

> > Rahu is extremely useful at helping liberation... In

fact i can

> justify

> > how each planet can help liberation, but thats not a fair

basis for

> > justifying their Bandhanas.

> >

> > /How many of the 6 billion people, all born due to Rahu-bond

are

> > using this birth to make a spiritual effort?

> > /

> >

> > Visti: How about Ramakrishna Paramahamsa? How about Srila

> Prabhupada?

> > They are the causes of the largest spiritual missions in

India and

> > abroad. I think they made great spiritual effort. They have

Rahu as

> > atmakaraka!

> >

> > Sun on the other hand causes problems with ahamkara in the

person.

> > Citing Sanjay Rath: <http://www.srath.com/lessons/advanced/ak2.htm>

> >

> > "*Planets as ätmakäraka: *1. Sun as AK indicates the native

> has to

> > learn to overcome his ego and should become humble." refer:

> > http://srath.com/lessons/advanced/ak.htm

> >

> > "Ahankära refers to its independent identity and is the false

ego

> (*not

> > Freud's ego*). This is false because the identity is not

permanent

> and

> > it is an ego as it helps to identify the object and

differentiate

> it

> > from the other bodies/creatures of its class or family. This

is

> > represented by the Sun in astrology." refer:

> > http://www.srath.com/lessons/advanced/ak2.htm

> >

> > Visti: note the careful reference to /ego /not being equated

with

> > Freud's understanding of Ego.

> >

> > /Chapter 7 verse 10:

> > "O Arjuna, try to understand me as the eternal origin of all

living

> > entities. I am the (BuddhirBuddhiMataA/ /smi)

intelligence in the

> > intelligent, and the brilliance of the brilliant."

> >

> > Chapter 10 sloka 10:

> > "One who is always united with Me (see 6:18) and who

meditates upon

> Me

> > with love -- I bestow him with buddhiyoga (meaning stillness)

by

> > which, he is the one who attains Me."

> >

> > Chapter 15 sloka 20:

> > (Etad Buddhva Buddhimaan syat KritaKrityascha bharata)

> > "Understand with your intelligence this most secret science

that I

> > have explained to you and become wise, and thereupon be

successful

> in

> > all your duties."

> >

> > Chapter 18 sloka 30:

> > " One who knows engagement and withdrawal, work and work not

to be

> > done, fear and non-fear, bondage and liberation -- this type

of

> > (Buddhi) intellect is sattvic."

> >

> > Rahu cannot be Sattvic!

> > /

> >

> > Visti: Does that mean Sun can be tamasic? How about all those

who

> don't

> > have satva budhi? Are you saying they don't have a buddhi

because

> its

> > not satvic? Your justification doesn't hold water.

> >

> > /Chapter 18, sloka 57:

> > "Dedicate all action to Me from the (chetasa)heart, extinguish

> > wholly, be devoted to Me, take recourse in buddhi-yoga and

keep your

> > consciousness always on Me."

> >

> > 18:30, 10:10 -- there is nothing like Ahamkara Yoga, but

Buddhi-

> > Yoga. With Sun as ParamAtma, one would have a yoga with him

as

> Buddhi.

> >

> > Thus, if buddhi is all that important all along from 2nd to

18th

> > chapter, in Gita, lets understand it as a function of Surya

with

> > Sattvic Buddhi. /

> >

> > Visti: If Satvic Budhi is the Sun, then is Sun also

Tamasic/impure

> > Budhi? You are only dealing with the highest aspect of Buddhi

in

> these

> > slokas, and not speaking of Buddhi as a bandhana.

> >

> > Since our entire discussion revolves around Sun, Moon and

Rahu

> which are

> > the causes of the eclipse, i will quote a translation of

> Dakshinamurti

> > Stotra:

> >

> > rähugrastadiväkarendusadåço mäyäsamäcchädanät

sanmätraù

> > karaëopasaàharaëato yo'bhütsuñuptaù pumän |

> >

> > prägasväpsamiti prabodhasamaye yaù pratyabhijïäyate tasmai

> > çrégurumürtaye nama idaà çrédakñiëämürtaye || 6||

> >

> > The Sun (atma) is eclipsed when the Moon (Mana) conjoins it

and the

> Moon

> > is in the latitude as the orbital plane of the earth where

the

> > intersection points are the nodes (Rahu & Ketu). It is

this Rahu

> that is

> > said to cause the eclipse. Simiarly, the Rahu of our lives is

our

> own

> > desires and sice Rahu is a node of the Moon (mana), the

desires are

> the

> > creation of the mind. It is the coming together or

conjunction of

> the

> > atma (Sun), mana (Moon) and desires (Rahu) that causes an

eclipse

> or

> > birth itself.

> >

> > Visti: The key lies in this, namely that Rahu being a node of

the

> Moon

> > is the cause of desires created in the mind, and very much

deals

> with

> > the mind.

> >

> > Further; ATMA means self. There are three types of atma

according

> to

> > Angirasa, namely: Atma, Antaratma and Paramatma. The first is

the

> body

> > itself and its senses. The second is the abode of the

individual

> soul or

> > Jeevatma, and finally the Paramatma is God.

> >

> > So when Parasara and other seers stated that the Sun is the

atma,

> they

> > also refer to the entire gamut of definitions of the self.

Ahamkara

> is a

> > function of 'thinking' one is the self, and is the bondage

that

> caused

> > the Jeevatma to separate from the Paramatma to begin with!

This is

> > defined in the cosmology where the ahamkara merged with the

various

> > Gunas to cause the bhutas, etc. to manifest.

> >

> > Looking forward to your reply.

> > Yours sincerely,

> >

> > --

> > Visti Larsen - SJC Guru

> > Jaimini SJC - Denmark

> > email: visti@ <visti@>

> > For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: http://

> srigaruda.com

> > <http://srigaruda.com>

> >

> > yeeahoo_99 wrote:

> > >

> > > || OM TAT SAT ||

> > > Dear Visti,

> > > Gita is the commentary of Parampara of Sri Krishna -

Arjuna, which

> > > includes everybody that practices the sohamsa mantra

yajna. Thus,

> you

> > > can benefit by reading it as it is the only living

parampara till

> > > date.

> > >

> > > > Visti: I don't have this translation. Is this an

inference?

> > > > The last two words used here are: buddhinaashaat-praNashyati

=

> > > > destruction of buddhi causes one to be

lost/dissapear/vanish/

> > > perish. > Did you infer that it was spirituality

which perished?

> To

> > > this Adi

> > > > Shankara comments: /Indeed, a man continues to be

himself so

> long

> > > as > his mind remains fit to distinguish between what

he ought to

> and

> > > > ought not to do./

> > >

> > > A person who isn't fit to distinguish between what he

ought or

> > > ought not to do; do you think he is fit to practice

spirituality?

> Sri

> > > Krishna is not really telling arjuna to practice

materiality

> anyways.

> > >

> > > If you don't understand the role of buddhi from this

sloka, Gita

> is

> > > full of slokas that talk about buddhi as a spiritual

faculty

> (Sun),

> > > unlike Ahamkara (Rahu).

> > >

> > > Chapter 3 sloka 1:

> > > Arjuna asks:

> > > "If Buddhi is greater than karma, Janardana

> > > Then why give me the order to be in this intense fight?"

> > >

> > > Chapter 3 sloka 42:

> > > Sri Krishna replies:

> > > "In the body the senses are superior

> > > >From the senses the mind is greater

> > > >From the mind the intellect (buddhi) is superior and

> > > Beyond the intellect is the Atman as the witness"

> > >

> > > Chapter 4 sloka 5 tells that many births of mine and

yours have

> > > passed.

> > > Chapter 6 sloka 43:

> > >

> > > "Acquiring wisdom (BUDDHI-SAMYOGAM) revived from the

previous body

> > > thereafter he endeavors once again for perfection."

> > >

> > > > One could just as easily justify that since the

main cause of

> > > > rebirth is Rahu, the stronger the bondage of Rahu,

so also the

> > > > stronger the bondage of Buddhi and thus the eclipse

> > > > of the Sun/spirituality.

> > >

> > > Do you still have doubts that Sun refers to Buddhi? Rahu

 

> (Ahamkara)

> > > and Moon (manas) don't make spiritual efforts.

> > > Rahu cannot be considered to be wise, in this context,

that its

> > > "rebirth-causing-bondage-quality" be used to

achieve perfection

> and

> > > liberation in this birth. It is only good at helping a

rebirth,

> not

> > > helping to liberate - thus it is not doing the function

of Buddhi

> by

> > > 6:43.

> > > How many of the 6 billion people, all born due to

Rahu-bond are

> > > using this birth to make a spiritual effort?

> > >

> > > Chapter 7 verse 10:

> > > "O Arjuna, try to understand me as the eternal origin of

all

> living

> > > entities. I am the (BuddhirBuddhiMataAsmi)

intelligence in the

> > > intelligent, and the brilliance of the brilliant."

> > >

> > > Chapter 10 sloka 10:

> > > "One who is always united with Me (see 6:18) and who

meditates

> upon Me

> > > with love -- I bestow him with buddhiyoga (meaning

stillness) by

> > > which, he is the one who attains Me."

> > >

> > > Chapter 15 sloka 20:

> > > (Etad Buddhva Buddhimaan syat KritaKrityascha bharata)

> > > "Understand with your intelligence this most secret

science that I

> > > have explained to you and become wise, and thereupon be

> successful in

> > > all your duties."

> > >

> > > Chapter 18 sloka 30:

> > > " One who knows engagement and withdrawal, work and work

not to be

> > > done, fear and non-fear, bondage and liberation -- this

type of

> > > (Buddhi) intellect is sattvic."

> > >

> > > Rahu cannot be Sattvic!

> > >

> > > Chapter 18, sloka 57:

> > > "Dedicate all action to Me from the (chetasa)heart,

extinguish

> > > wholly, be devoted to Me, take recourse in buddhi-yoga

and keep

> your

> > > consciousness always on Me."

> > >

> > > 18:30, 10:10 -- there is nothing like Ahamkara Yoga, but

Buddhi-

> > > Yoga. With Sun as ParamAtma, one would have a yoga with

him as

> Buddhi.

> > >

> > > Thus, if buddhi is all that important all along from 2nd

to 18th

> > > chapter, in Gita, lets understand it as a function of

Surya with

> > > Sattvic Buddhi.

> > >

> > > regards,

> > > Nitish

> > >

> > > sohamsa

 

> <sohamsa%40>,

> > > Visti Larsen <visti@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > ??? ??? ??????

> > > >

> > > > Dear Nitish, Namaskar

> > > > Thank you for your mail.

> > > > You mention a Parampara below. Please provide the

name of the

> > > Parampara

> > > > and its commentary for our benefit so we can read

more. In

> > > answering

> > > > your points, i will be using the Gita's commentary

by Adi

> Shankara

> > > -

> > > > translated by Svami Gambhirananda.

> > > >

> > > > /1.) About Buddhi:

> > > > Chapter 2 sloka 52, 53 -->

> > > > "When Buddhi penetrates beyond darkness of

delusion, then you

> shall

> > > > be indifferent about the matters heard and

to-be-heard./

> > > >

> > > > /."

> > > > "..Buddhi becoming securely anchored in soul bliss,

one attains

> > > yoga."

> > > > /

> > > >

> > > > /Chapter 2 sloka 62,63 -->

> > > > DECAY OF BUDDHI causes ANNIHILATION of spiritual

life./

> > > >

> > > > Visti: I don't have this translation. Is this an

inference? The

> > > last two

> > > > words used here are: buddhinaashaat-praNashyati

= destruction of

> > > buddhi

> > > > causes one to be lost/dissapear/vanish/perish.

Did you infer

> that

> > > it was

> > > > spirituality which perished? To this Adi Shankara

comments: /

> > > Indeed, a

> > > > man continues to be himself so long as his mind

remains fit to

> > > > distinguish between what he ought to and ought not

to do./

> > > >

> > > > /NOTE:- Jyotish tells us that Sprituality is

related to Sun more

> > > than

> > > > Rahu, as seen in those with AK in kendra to Sun.

> > > > /

> > > >

> > > > Visti: All eight of the bandhanas once tightened

cause loss of

> > > > spirituality, not just Buddhi. If a student has so

much ahamkara

> > > that he

> > > > believes he knows everything, then he will not read

books and

> again

> > > > spirituality is destroyed. If a one is fully

engrossed in his/

> her

> > > desire

> > > > for procreation then again the spirituality is

ruined. The

> latter

> > > is

> > > > explained in Chapter 2, sloka 60. So all eight

bandhas cause

> this

> > > > problem, and not just Buddhi.

> > > >

> > > > /Chapter 2 sloka 65 -->

> > > > Buddhi of the blissful man soon becomes firmly

established (in

> the

> > > > self).

> > > >

> > > > Chapter 5 sloka 20 -->

> > > > "The Knower of spirit, abiding in Supreme being,

with STHIRA

> BUDDHI,

> > > > free from delusion, is thus neither jubiliant at

pleasant

> > > experiences

> > > > nor downcast by unpleasant experiences./ /"/

> > > >

> > > > Visti: You are very right to give Buddhi such a

high pedestal

> among

> > > the

> > > > eight bandhas, because indeed the worst Bandha is

that of Buddhi

> > > just as

> > > > Rahu is the main karaka for all Bandhana of the

soul. Overcoming

> > > this,

> > > > all the other bandhas break easily. This is the

reason Rahu is

> the

> > > main

> > > > cause of rebirth. This is why the Shiva purana

> (Satirudrasamhita)

> > > states

> > > > that the Shiva form who is able to control the

bondage of Rahu

> is

> > > > Pashupati. Shiva then explains that Pashupati is

responsible for

> > > > breaking all wordly bondages (pashupAshanikR^intanaM).

> > > > According to Shiva, Ishana is the form of Shiva

which controls

> > > Surya.

> > > > More below.

> > > >

> > > > /2.) About AHAMKARA:

> > > > Chapter 2 sloka 71 -->

> > > > "That person realizes peace who, relinquishing all

desires,

> exists

> > > > without craving and is UNIDENTIFIED WITH AHAMKARA

(mortal ego)

> and

> > > > its sense of mine-ness."/

> > > >

> > > > Visti: Adi Shankara comments that this actually

refers to one

> > > becoming

> > > > one with Brahman i.e. enlightenment. Among the

forms of Shiva

> which

> > > > specifically give this enlightenment

(sandIpayajjagatsarvam -

> > > enlightens

> > > > the entire universe), we see that the form of

Ishana is talked

> > > about.

> > > > Note that the word used is /SandIpa/, and this

happens to be the

> > > Guru of

> > > > Sri Krishna (SandIpani).

> > > > However, this sloka from the Gita is not strictly

for ahamkara,

> but

> > > for

> > > > all the eight bandhas.

> > > >

> > > > /3.) About MANAS JOINED WITH BUDDHI:

> > > > Chapter 2 sloka 51:

> > > > "Those whose minds are joined to wisdom

(BUDDHI-YUKTA)/ /,

> having

> > > > abandoned action's fruit, Freed thus from bondage

to rebirth,

> they

> > > > attain the state beyond sorrow."

> > > >

> > > > Also refer Chapter 13 slokas 1 - 11:

> > > >

> > > > "...Indifference to sense objects, And absence of

egotism

> > > > (NIRHAMKARA)/ /;...Constant evenmindedness in

Desired and

> undesired

> > > > events...With single-minded yoga,...Constant in

knowledge of the

> > > Self,

> > > > Seeing the goal of truth-knowledge--

> > > > This is said to be true knowledge.

> > > > The contrary is ignorance."

> > > >

> > > > Chapter 8 sloka 9 refers

> > > > "He who meditates on the Seer, the Ruler, The

ancient, subtler

> than

> > > > the atom, support Of all, Whose form is

inconceivable and

> RADIANT

> > > > LIKE THE SUN and beyond darkness."

> > > >

> > > > This proves beyond doubt and questioning the

central role of

> > > > BUDDHI in the spiritual growth of a devotee like

ARJUNA. Now,

> this

> > > > role is not played by AHAMKARA or MANAS

independently.

> > > > Thus, Sun as dispeller of darkness is the only

correct

> assignment of

> > > > the role of Buddhi.

> > > > /

> > > >

> > > > Visti: Your inference implies that only one of the

eight bandhas

> > > deal

> > > > with spiritual growth or its lacking. One could

just as easily

> > > justify

> > > > that since the main cause of rebirth is Rahu, the

stronger the

> > > bondage

> > > > of Rahu, so also the stronger the bondage of Buddhi

and thus the

> > > eclipse

> > > > of the Sun/spirituality. Thus for this reason we

worship Sri

> > > > Dakshinamurti on the day of the eclipse to be

released from this

> > > > Bandhana and get enighenment. This is what the

Sadhu's practice.

> > > >

> > > > Note the word Buddhi is used in three different

ways in the gita

> > > > according to Adi Shankara and Gambhiranandas

translation, viz.

> i)

> > > buddhi

> > > > as a bandha, ii) samatva buddhi (pure buddhi) and

iii) buddhi as

> > > > enlightenment, and cannot be mixed arbitrarily.

> > > >

> > > > /Getting back to the eightfold Prakriti, Sun

(Buddhi), Moon

> (MANAS)

> > > > and Rahu (Ahamkara) is the only correct version as

per the

> > > >

> > > > GURU-SHISYA PARAMPARA

> > > > from

> > > > Sri Krishna-Arjuna/

> > > >

> > > > The reason why in Jyotish most associate the Sun

with Ahamkara

> in

> > > > general terms, is because of the story of Vivasvan

and Sanjna

> > > > (memory/recollection). In the story Vivasvans

rays become so

> > > bright, and

> > > > he became so knowledgeable (and self absorbed) that

Sanjna left

> and

> > > only

> > > > left her shadow (false recollection) behind.

> > > >

> > > > He only could reunite with Sanjna once his father

in-law reduced

> > > the

> > > > rays of Vivasvan, and he could himself take on a

form that

> Sanjna

> > > was

> > > > pleased with.

> > > > So the story of Vivasvan/Surya tells us about this

nature of

> > > Ahamkara.

> > > >

> > > > Looking forward to your reply.

> > > > Yours sincerely,

> > > >

> > > > --

> > > > Visti Larsen - SJC Guru

> > > > Jaimini SJC - Denmark

> > > > email: visti@ <visti@>

> > > > For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit:

http://

> > > srigaruda.com

> > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>

> > > >

> > > > yeeahoo_99 wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > || OM TAT SAT||

> > > > > Dear Visti,

> > > > > Lets look at what Sri Krishna tells Arjuna in

Gita about

> Buddhi,

> > > > > Manas and Ahamkara.

> > > > >

> > > > > 1.) About Buddhi:

> > > > > Chapter 2 sloka 52, 53 -->

> > > > > "When Buddhi penetrates beyond darkness of

delusion, then you

> > > shall

> > > > > be indifferent about the matters heard and

to-be-heard.."

> > > > > "..Buddhi becoming securely anchored in soul

bliss, one

> attains

> > > yoga."

> > > > >

> > > > > Chapter 2 sloka 62,63 -->

> > > > > DECAY OF BUDDHI causes ANNIHILATION of

spiritual life.

> > > > >

> > > > > NOTE:- Jyotish tells us that Sprituality is

related to Sun

> more

> > > than

> > > > > Rahu, as seen in those with AK in kendra to

Sun.

> > > > >

> > > > > Chapter 2 sloka 65 -->

> > > > > Buddhi of the blissful man soon becomes firmly

established

> (in the

> > > > > self).

> > > > >

> > > > > Chapter 5 sloka 20 -->

> > > > > "The Knower of spirit, abiding in Supreme

being, with STHIRA

> > > BUDDHI,

> > > > > free from delusion, is thus neither jubiliant

at pleasant

> > > experiences

> > > > > nor downcast by unpleasant experiences."

> > > > >

> > > > > 2.) About AHAMKARA:

> > > > > Chapter 2 sloka 71 -->

> > > > > "That person realizes peace who, relinquishing

all desires,

> exists

> > > > > without craving and is UNIDENTIFIED WITH

AHAMKARA (mortal

> ego) and

> > > > > its sense of mine-ness."

> > > > >

> > > > > 3.) About MANAS JOINED WITH BUDDHI:

> > > > > Chapter 2 sloka 51:

> > > > > "Those whose minds are joined to wisdom

(BUDDHI-YUKTA), having

> > > > > abandoned action's fruit, Freed thus from

bondage to rebirth,

> they

> > > > > attain the state beyond sorrow."

> > > > >

> > > > > Also refer Chapter 13 slokas 1 - 11:

> > > > >

> > > > > "...Indifference to sense objects, And absence

of egotism

> > > > > (NIRHAMKARA);...Constant evenmindedness

in Desired and

> undesired

> > > > > events...With single-minded yoga,...Constant

in knowledge of

> the

> > > Self,

> > > > > Seeing the goal of truth-knowledge--

> > > > > This is said to be true knowledge.

> > > > > The contrary is ignorance."

> > > > >

> > > > > Chapter 8 sloka 9 refers

> > > > > "He who meditates on the Seer, the Ruler, The

ancient, subtler

> > > than

> > > > > the atom, support Of all, Whose form is

inconceivable and

> RADIANT

> > > > > LIKE THE SUN and beyond darkness."

> > > > >

> > > > > This proves beyond doubt and questioning the

central role of

> > > > > BUDDHI in the spiritual growth of a devotee

like ARJUNA. Now,

> this

> > > > > role is not played by AHAMKARA or MANAS

independently.

> > > > > Thus, Sun as dispeller of darkness is the only

correct

> assignment

> > > of

> > > > > the role of Buddhi.

> > > > >

> > > > > Getting back to the eightfold Prakriti, Sun

(Buddhi), Moon

> (MANAS)

> > > > > and Rahu (Ahamkara) is the only correct

version as per the

> > > > >

> > > > > GURU-SHISYA PARAMPARA

> > > > > from

> > > > > Sri Krishna-Arjuna

> > > > >

> > > > > regards,

> > > > > Nitish

> > > > >

> > > > > sohamsa

 

> <sohamsa%40>

> > > <sohamsa%40>,

> > > > > Visti Larsen <visti@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ??? ??? ??????

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Nitish, Namaskar

> > > > > > Thank you for this mail.

> > > > > > I will be answering the main points of

your mail. The main

> > > points

> > > > > being

> > > > > > the foundation of the facts/statements

you present.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > /You wrote:

> > > > > > So lets begin with Eightfold-Prakriti of

Krishna, your

> reference

> > > > > > point itself is incorrect. Gita Chapter 7

sloka 4 states:...

> > > > > > /

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I cannot disagree, as i had wrongly

written prakriti

> instead of

> > > > > buddhi.

> > > > > > Siva purana confirms this:

> > > > > > */Siva Purana, Vishvesvara Samhita,4/*

> > > > > > /Prakriti /comprises of buddhi, ahamkara,

gunaatmaka and

> > > > > panchatanmatra.

> > > > > > All these combined are called Prakriti.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > /You wrote:

> > > > > > Neither the five tattwas, Buddhi nor

Manah can be assigned

> to

> > > Rahu

> > > > > > and thus Ahamkara is the only thing that

can logically be

> > > assigned

> > > > > to

> > > > > > Rahu. So the correct version of eightfold

representation of

> > > Prakriti

> > > > > > is:...

> > > > > > /

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Mana and Buddhi can indeed both be

attributed to Rahu, as

> Rahu

> > > is

> > > > > well

> > > > > > known to show the desires of the mind.

Here the Parampara

> comes

> > > to

> > > > > our

> > > > > > help and specifically defines Buddhi to

be assigned to Rahu,

> > > > > whereas

> > > > > > Mana and Ahamkara have been assigned to

Moon and Sun

> > > respectively.

> > > > > So

> > > > > > why does Sun represent Ahamkara?

> > > > > > aham = self. kaara=causative/doer.

The cause of self in

> other

> > > words.

> > > > > > Monier Williams translates this as:

> > > > > > /m. conception of one's individuality ,

self-consciousness

> > > ChUp. & c.

> > > > > > the making of self , thinking of self ,

egotism MBh. & c./

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Where Rahu caused the desire which led to

rebirth, it is a

> given

> > > > > that

> > > > > > the Sun is the actual creator of

everything, and with that

> > > creation

> > > > > the

> > > > > > ahamkaara is one of the negative effects

of the same. But

> this

> > > is

> > > > > just

> > > > > > my justification the traditions teachings.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > /You wrote:

> > > > > > There is ONLY ONE bondage and not Eight

of them. Ahamkara

> > > doesn't

> > > > > > cause bondage of atma as you have

written, but Karma alone

> > > causes

> > > > > > bondage of atma, and is not a part of

eightfold-prakriti

> > > referred

> > > > > > above. Refer Gita Chapter 2 verse 39 as

follows:

> > > > > > /

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The sloka you qoute is right, but your

inference... Heres

> what

> > > Siva

> > > > > > Purana says:/

> > > > > > /

> > > > > >

> > > > > > */Siva Purana, Vishvesvara Samhita,2/*

> > > > > > Because of remaining in eight types of

bandhana, the soul is

> > > called

> > > > > > /Jeeva/. When a person is freed from

these bondages, the

> person

> > > is

> > > > > > called /Mukta.

> > > > > > /

> > > > > >

> > > > > > /*Siva Purana, Vishvesvara Samhita,3*

> > > > > > /Emancipation is the control of these

bondages of prakriti

> etc.

> > > One

> > > > > > trapped in these is called /Jeeva/, and

one freed from them

> is

> > > > > called

> > > > > > /Mukta./

> > > > > >

> > > > > > */Siva Purana, Vishvesvara Samhita,4/*

> > > > > > /Prakriti /comprises of buddhi, ahamkara,

gunaatmaka and

> > > > > panchatanmatra.

> > > > > > All these combined are called Prakriti.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > */Siva Purana, Vishvesvara Samhita,5/*

> > > > > > These eight bondages are the body. The

activities of this

> body

> > > are

> > > > > > called the /karmas/.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Later in sloka 8 Suta explains that due

to karmas the soul

> is

> > > bound

> > > > > by

> > > > > > these eight bondages. So these are indeed

the bondages and

> they

> > > are

> > > > > > created due to Karma. The issue being

that the bondages

> > > themselves

> > > > > can

> > > > > > lead one to recreate the same karma again

and again, just

> as one

> > > > > desire

> > > > > > leads to a thousand more.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > /You wrote:

> > > > > > ParamAtma is a collective of all the

atmas. Concept of Chara

> > > > > > karakas is only indicative of the

separate identity

> (Ahamkara)

> > > of

> > > > > > soul in the realm of relationships - led

by the AK as a king

> > > leads a

> > > > > > kingdom. So AK has the job of

understanding the realm of

> > > > > > relationships with other atmas and

thereby help the

> attainment

> > > of

> > > > > > individuals' understanding of ParamAtma./

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Yes, once Sun atmakaraka's understand

this within

> themselves,

> > > they

> > > > > > should teach it to others.

> > > > > > Looking forward to your reply.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Yours sincerely,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > --

> > > > > > Visti Larsen - SJC Guru

> > > > > > Jaimini SJC - Denmark

> > > > > > email: visti@ <visti@>

> > > > > > For consultations, free mp3's and

articles visit: http://

> > > > > srigaruda.com

> > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>

 

> > > <http://srigaruda.com

<http://srigaruda.com>>>

> > > > > >

> > > > > > yeeahoo_99 wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > || Om TAT SAT ||

> > > > > > > Dear Visti,

> > > > > > > Thanks for a good mail.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Surely Surya is not Ahamkara,

thats like saying that

> Rahu is

> > > > > Durga.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > How are you so sure about it? The

question still remains

> > > > > unanswered

> > > > > > > i.e. how do you prove that Surya

represents Ahamkara?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > The graha which 'represents'

the bondage of ahamkara is

> > > Surya.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > This brings up another question:

i.e. if there is a

> bondage of

> > > > > > > Ahamkara at all?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Ahamkar is referred in Gita chapter

3, verse 27 as

> follows:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > "All activities are being enacted by

the senses of the

> > > (Prakriti)

> > > > > > > material nature without exception;

but the unrealized,

> > > deluded by

> > > > > > > (AhamKara) false identification of

being the body, thus

> > > thinks:

> > > > > "I am

> > > > > > > the doer"

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Ahamkara (surya), Manas

(chandra), Prakriti (rahu),

> > > > > Akasha(guru),

> > > > > > > > Agni(mangala), Jala

(shukra), Vayu (shani) and Prithvi

> > > (budha)

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > So lets begin with

Eightfold-Prakriti of Krishna, your

> > > reference

> > > > > > > point itself is incorrect. Gita

Chapter 7 sloka 4 states:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > "Earth, water, fire, air, ether,

Manah, Buddhi, and

> Ahamkara;

> > > thus

> > > > > > > these are the eightfold divisions of

my Prakriti."

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Neither the five tattwas, Buddhi nor

Manah can be

> assigned to

> > > Rahu

> > > > > > > and thus Ahamkara is the only thing

that can logically be

> > > > > assigned to

> > > > > > > Rahu. So the correct version of

eightfold representation

> of

> > > > > Prakriti

> > > > > > > is:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Buddhi (surya), Manah (chandra),

Ahamkara (rahu),

> > > Akasha(guru),

> > > > > > > Agni(mangala), Jala (shukra),

Vayu (shani) and Prithvi

> (budha)

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Now, to overcome these eight

bondages, there are EIGHT

> ways

> > > to

> > > > > look

> > > > > > > > at God through which we can be

freed. For the Ahamkara

> we

> > > must

> > > > > > > > look at God as Paramatman.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > There is ONLY ONE bondage and not

Eight of them. Ahamkara

> > > doesn't

> > > > > > > cause bondage of atma as you have

written, but Karma alone

> > > causes

> > > > > > > bondage of atma, and is not a part

of eightfold-prakriti

> > > referred

> > > > > > > above. Refer Gita Chapter 2 verse 39

as follows:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > "O Arjuna! What has been declared to

you this spiritual

> > > > > intelligence

> > > > > > > (Buddhih) according to the Samkhya

(the path of

> knowledge).

> > > Now

> > > > > > > listen to the teaching of Yoga (the

path of selfless

> action

> > > > > combined

> > > > > > > with devotion) by practising which

the bondage of Karma is

> > > > > overcome."

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Also, Chapter 3 verse 9 verifies

that Karma causes

> bondage:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > "O son of Kunti! In this world all

actions, unless they

> are

> > > done

> > > > > as

> > > > > > > an offering to God (or as Yajna),

become causes of

> bondage.

> > > > > > > Therefore, work for the sake of God

without personal

> > > attachments."

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Chapter 3 verse 31 cross-verfies it

as follows:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > "Whoever follow this teaching of

mine, with their minds

> full

> > > of

> > > > > faith

> > > > > > > and free from disparagement, they

also are released from

> the

> > > > > bondage

> > > > > > > of reactions from Actions (Karma)."

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > That liberation is attained by

knowing the correct way of

> > > acting

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > given in Chapter 4 verse 16:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > "What is (karma) action and what is

(akarma) 'non-

> action', is

> > > a

> > > > > > > subject regarding which even the

wise are perplexed. I

> shall

> > > > > > > therefore speak to you about

(Karma)work, by knowing which

> > > one is

> > > > > > > liberated from evil (or the life of

bondage in Samsara)"

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The reason for liberation is written

as Chapter 5 verse 3:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > "It should be known, O mighty-armed

one! That one who

> neither

> > > > > > > disdains nor desires fruits of

actions, should be known

> as one

> > > > > > > established in renunciation.

Certainly, that person being

> free

> > > > > from

> > > > > > > all dualities is easily liberated

from bondage."

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > For the Ahamkara we must look

at God as Paramatman.

> This is

> > > the

> > > > > > > > remedy itself. And the specific

form of Shiva

> > > > > > > > who will help us realize this

is Ishana for the Sun.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Please understand that Ahamkara is

not a disease that we

> look

> > > for

> > > > > > > remedies to it. It is the eightfold

prakriti of Krishna.

> > > > > Otherwise,

> > > > > > > mind, buddhi, and pancha-tattwas

will also need to be

> > > remedied.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > And among those born with Surya

as atmakaraka we have

> > > grades of

> > > > > > > > those being fully engrossed in

ahamkara vs. having

> complete

> > > > > control

> > > > > > > > of ahamkara.

> > > > > > > I am not sure what you mean by

complete control of

> Ahamkara,

> > > > > > > because one who has complete control

of his manas and has

> > > buddhi

> > > > > > > devoted to Krishna - realizes his

divine nature of

> > > > > "AhamBrahmaAsmi"

> > > > > > > and gets freed from the bondage of

Karma.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Divine souls like Vivekananda,

Ramakrishna

> > > > > > > > Paramahamsa and Sri Krishna

being at one end of the

> scale.

> > > With

> > > > > > > > fellows like Donald Trump,

Adolph Hitler (exalted surya

> > > yuti AK)

> > > > > > > >and others at the other end of

the scale.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Liberation is caused by the

development of divine/demoniac

> > > nature,

> > > > > > > Chapter 16 Verse 5:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > "The divine nature is considered the

cause of liberation

> and

> > > the

> > > > > > > demoniac nature the cause of

bondage. Grieve not, O son of

> > > Pandu!

> > > > > You

> > > > > > > are born of the divine nature."

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > So please don't make the

equation that everyone with

> Surya

> > > > > > > > atmakaraka is Paramatman. That

would be quite delusional

> > > > > indeed...

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Even as paramatman is Omnipresent,

it is not possible to

> say

> > > that

> > > > > > > any mortal being is apart from

paramatman, whether it be

> > > Surya AK

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > a specific context. In any case, no

such equation about

> > > > > > > Atmakaraka and Paramatma has been

made by me.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The only question asked is about how

"Surya" represents

> > > Ahamkara,

> > > > > > > devoid of any Chara Karaka Status

whatsoever. You should

> have

> > > > > read my

> > > > > > > mail more thoroughly to have not

missed the point that was

> > > being

> > > > > made.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > ParamAtma is a collective of all the

atmas. Concept of

> Chara

> > > > > > > karakas is only indicative of the

separate identity

> > > (Ahamkara) of

> > > > > > > soul in the realm of relationships -

led by the AK as a

> king

> > > > > leads a

> > > > > > > kingdom. So AK has the job of

understanding the realm of

> > > > > > > relationships with other atmas and

thereby help the

> > > attainment of

> > > > > > > individuals' understanding of

ParamAtma.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Finally, about the points you made:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > As proved earlier, Surya as

representing Buddhi of the

> eight-

> > > fold

> > > > > > > Prakriti of Krishna - is referred to

as ParamAtma in a

> chart

> > > by

> > > > > > > Jyotish Texts, whatever be the Chara

AtmaKaraka. That

> Buddhi/

> > > > > > > intelligence in creatures is Krishna

is verified by Gita

> > > Chapter

> > > > > 10,

> > > > > > > sloka 22:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > "Of the Vedas, I am the Sama Veda;

among the Devas, I am

> > > Indra; of

> > > > > > > the senses, I am the mind; and in

living beings, I am

> > > > > intelligence."

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > See, the devatas reside in

svarga loka and this

> corresponds

> > > to

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > nakshatras.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Jyotish tells that constellations

are overlorded by

> luminary

> > > Moon

> > > > > > > and Moon derives its luminosity from

Sun. Therefore, as a

> > > > > consequence

> > > > > > > the concept of devatas associated

with the swarga of

> > > > > constellations

> > > > > > > is derived from the luminosity of

the radiant Sun and any

> > > > > spiritual

> > > > > > > blessings obtained by worshipping

devatas of Swarga loka

> are

> > > > > easily

> > > > > > > obtained by worshipping Sun as

Paramatma.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Using that equation we could

say that Aditya, Shiva and

> > > Agni are

> > > > > > > > all Surya... Taking a line from

your mail we are

> actually

> > > saying

> > > > > > > > that Vishnu being an aditya is

Surya?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Yes. Surya as ParamAtma is only ONE

and manifests as

> > > multitude of

> > > > > > > Aditya, Shiva and Agni, depending

upon the concept you

> see him

> > > > > > > aligned with, i.e. signs, or

nakshatra or any other

> divisions

> > > > > > > respectively.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Obviously both of us know

better than that.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Now we do.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > > nitish

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > sohamsa

 

> <sohamsa%40>

> > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > <sohamsa%40>,

> > > > > > > Visti Larsen <visti@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > ??? ??? ??????

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Nitish, Namaskar

> > > > > > > > Thank you for your reply.

> > > > > > > > Surely Surya is not Ahamkara,

thats like saying that

> Rahu is

> > > > > Durga.

> > > > > > > > Using that equation we could

say that Aditya, Shiva and

> > > Agni are

> > > > > > > all

> > > > > > > > Surya... Taking a line from

your mail we are actually

> saying

> > > > > that

> > > > > > > Vishnu

> > > > > > > > being an aditya is Surya?

Obviously both of us know

> better

> > > than

> > > > > > > that.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > See, the devatas reside in

svarga loka and this

> corresponds

> > > to

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > nakshatras. The grahas through

their transit of the

> > > nakshatras

> > > > > are

> > > > > > > > actually eclipsing them and

thus certain forms of

> devatas

> > > come

> > > > > as

> > > > > > > > indicating by 1) the graha

eclipsing. 2) the nakshatra

> it

> > > > > eclipses.

> > > > > > > > Since nakshatras are the basis

of the rasi chart, we can

> > > find

> > > > > based

> > > > > > > on

> > > > > > > > the state of a graha the actual

devata represented by

> it.

> > > But

> > > > > its

> > > > > > > only a

> > > > > > > > representation as the Grahas

themselves are not devatas.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > The graha which 'represents'

the bondage of ahamkara is

> > > Surya,

> > > > > just

> > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > the graha representing the

bondage of the mind is Moon.

> And

> > > > > among

> > > > > > > those

> > > > > > > > born with Surya as atmakaraka

we have grades of those

> being

> > > > > fully

> > > > > > > > engrossed in ahamkara vs.

having complete control of

> > > ahamkara.

> > > > > > > Divine

> > > > > > > > souls like Vivekananda,

Ramakrishna Paramahamsa and Sri

> > > Krishna

> > > > > > > being at

> > > > > > > > one end of the scale. With

fellows like Donald Trump,

> Adolph

> > > > > Hitler

> > > > > > > > (exalted surya yuti AK) and

others at the other end of

> the

> > > > > scale.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Now, to overcome these eight

bondages, there are EIGHT

> ways

> > > to

> > > > > look

> > > > > > > at

> > > > > > > > God through which we can be

freed. For the Ahamkara we

> must

> > > > > look at

> > > > > > > God

> > > > > > > > as Paramatman. This is the

remedy itself. And the

> specific

> > > form

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > Shiva

> > > > > > > > who will help us realize this

is Ishana for the Sun.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > So please don't make the

equation that everyone with

> Surya

> > > > > > > atmakaraka is

> > > > > > > > Paramatman. That would be quite

delusional indeed...

> Infact

> > > the

> > > > > > > concept

> > > > > > > > of Paramatma is the means to

which the Surya atmakaraka

> > > will be

> > > > > > > freed of

> > > > > > > > his/her ahamkara.

> > > > > > > > Looking forward to your reply.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Yours sincerely,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > --

> > > > > > > > Visti Larsen - SJC Guru

> > > > > > > > Jaimini SJC - Denmark

> > > > > > > > email: visti@ <visti@>

> > > > > > > > For consultations, free mp3's

and articles visit: http:/

> /

> > > > > > > srigaruda.com

> > > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>

 

> > > <http://srigaruda.com

<http://srigaruda.com>>

> > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>

<http://

> srigaruda.com

> > > <http://srigaruda.com>>>>

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > yeeahoo_99 wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > || OM TAT SAT||

> > > > > > > > > Dear Visti,

> > > > > > > > > How do you prove that

Ahamkara is represented by

> Surya ?

> > > > > Either

> > > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > > mean to say that Lord

Krishna represents Ahamkara

> going by

> > > > > Gita

> > > > > > > > > Chapter 10 verse 21:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > "Of the tweleve adityas I

am vishnu, of all

> luminaries the

> > > > > radiant

> > > > > > > > > Sun , of the seven Maruts

I am marichi, and of the

> > > > > constellations

> > > > > > > I am

> > > > > > > > > the Moon."

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Are you saying that

Sura/Surya group of planets are

> lead

> > > by

> > > > > Surya

> > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > Ahamkara?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Are you saying that the

Vedas adoring Surya Narayan

> as a

> > > > > witness

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > all actions (Sakshi) is an

individuality creating

> Ahamkara

> > > > > > > Principle

> > > > > > > > > and not an impersonal

transcendental intelligence

> > > principle?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Please explain why Surya

as Ahamkara should be

> referred

> > > to as

> > > > > > > > > Paramatma, the soul of all

and `Jagadaikha

> chakshusay',

> > > the

> > > > > eye

> > > > > > > of the

> > > > > > > > > three worlds?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > > > > nitish

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > sohamsa

 

> > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>,

> > > > > > > > > Visti Larsen

<visti@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > ??? ??? ??????

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Dear List, Namaskar

> > > > > > > > > > Why hasn't anyone

started talking about the eight

> > > bondages

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > the atma?

> > > > > > > > > > Ahamkara (surya),

Manas (chandra), Prakriti (rahu),

> > > Akasha

> > > > > > > (guru), Agni

> > > > > > > > > > (mangala), Jala

(shukra), Vayu (shani) and Prithvi

> > > (budha).

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > And how these eight

bondages map into the eight

> spokes

> > > of

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > kala

> > > > > > > > > > chakra, which are

simultaneously the eight spokes

> of the

> > > > > > > anahata chakra.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Really any talk on

the atma and its EIGHT karakas is

> > > futile

> > > > > > > without any

> > > > > > > > > > of this.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Yours sincerely,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > --

> > > > > > > > > > Visti Larsen - SJC

Guru

> > > > > > > > > > Jaimini SJC - Denmark

> > > > > > > > > > email: visti@

<visti@>

> > > > > > > > > > For consultations,

free mp3's and articles visit:

> > > > > > > > > http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>

 

> > > <http://srigaruda.com

<http://srigaruda.com>>

> > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>

<http://

> srigaruda.com

> > > <http://srigaruda.com>>>

<http://

> > > > > srigaruda.com

> > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>

 

> > > <http://srigaruda.com

<http://srigaruda.com>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com

<http://srigaruda.com>

 

> > > <http://srigaruda.com

<http://srigaruda.com>>

> > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>

<http://

> srigaruda.com

> > > <http://srigaruda.com>>>

> > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>

 

> > > <http://srigaruda.com

<http://srigaruda.com>>

<http://

> > > srigaruda.com

> > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>>>>

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Promila Chitkara

wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > Hello Sharat,

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Do you not think

that "serving others" comes

> naturally

> > > > > only

> > > > > > > to a

> > > > > > > > > > > handful people?

There maybe people who want to

> serve

> > > their

> > > > > > > families;

> > > > > > > > > > > however, that is

not selfless service in the true

> > > sense of

> > > > > > > the term.

> > > > > > > > > > > Because we know

very well that in happiness and

> > > > > contentment

> > > > > > > of our

> > > > > > > > > > > families lies

our happiness and growth! So it's

> purely

> > > > > > > selfish.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > P

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original

Message ----

> > > > > > > > > > > Sharat

<gidoc@>

> > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa

 

> > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > Thursday,

August 30, 2007 2:23:04 AM

> > > > > > > > > > > Re:

Re: Jupiter as AK (to

> Tijanaji,

> > > > > Nitish

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > v_reality)

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > ||Namah Shivaya||

> > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sundeep,

> > > > > > > > > > > Good

observations, I was following this thread as

> > > well but

> > > > > > > really

> > > > > > > > > > > found the ' ego

' bit coming in too quickly.

> > > > > > > > > > > English words

cant describe so well ' ahankar '

> and '

> > > > > aham'

> > > > > > > which are

> > > > > > > > > > > different and I

agree that one cannot see this

> only in

> > > > > Sun AK.

> > > > > > > > > However

> > > > > > > > > > > as you say, Sun

AK needs to learn to serve others

> as

> > > it

> > > > > does

> > > > > > > not come

> > > > > > > > > > > naturally to

them. And you cant take ' I ' away

> from

> > > them

> > > > > so

> > > > > > > easily

> > > > > > > > > > > but perhaps if

one wants to merge with Paramatma,

> then

> > > > > the '

> > > > > > > I '

> > > > > > > > > will

> > > > > > > > > > > have to merge in

to ' Him '.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Best

> > > > > > > > > > > Sharat

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original

Message -----

> > > > > > > > > > > **

vedicastrostudent

> <vedicastrostudent@>

> > > > > > > > > > > *To:*

sohamsa@ .com

> > > > > > > <sohamsa

 

> > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>>

> > > > > > > > > > > *Sent:*

Wednesday, August 29, 2007 8:56 PM

> > > > > > > > > > > *Subject:*

Re: Jupiter as AK (to

> Tijanaji,

> > > > > Nitish

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > v_reality)

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Dear Tijanaji

and Nitish,

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I have been

reading your exchange with interest

> in the

> > > > > hope of

> > > > > > > > > > > learning

something new, but I find myself

> disagreeing

> > > > > subtly

> > > > > > > > > in the

> > > > > > > > > > > essence of what

you say. In fact, deep down in the

> > > > > exchange I

> > > > > > > find

> > > > > > > > > > > this statement

made by "v_reality" which makes a

> lot

> > > of

> > > > > sense

> > > > > > > > > to me:

> > > > > > > > > > > "Can this also

be understood at a different level

> as

> > > the

> > > > > > > > > effacement

> > > > > > > > > > > of 'self' in a

spiritual sense?".

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Here is my take

- I have none of the scriptural

> > > knowledge

> > > > > you

> > > > > > > both

> > > > > > > > > > > have, only I

have seen several Sun AK people: I

> dont

> > > > > think it

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > fair to say that

Sun AK people are egotistic. See,

> > > English

> > > > > > > > > also has

> > > > > > > > > > > a lot of words

which have subtly different

> meanings,

> > > and

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > right

> > > > > > > > > > > one has to be

used. An egotistic person is one who

> > > has a

> > > > > > > > > exaggerated

> > > > > > > > > > > sense of

self-importance. Almost everyone in this

> > > world

> > > > > has

> > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > (and you are

fooling yourself if you deny it), it

> is

> > > plain

> > > > > > > > > wrong to

> > > > > > > > > > > observe a person

have Sun AK and simultaneously

> > > observe

> > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > he also

> > > > > > > > > > > has an

exaggerated sense of self importance and

> say

> > > "yes,

> > > > > > > that is

> > > > > > > > > > > what the Sun AK

does to him". I can cite hundreds

> of

> > > > > people I

> > > > > > > know

> > > > > > > > > > > who are very

self important and DONT have Sun AK,

> and

> > > not

> > > > > only

> > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > may not even

have a strong Sun in their chart.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I personally

think the only statement that can be

> > > observed

> > > > > > > > > > > repeatedly with

Sun AK people is that they are

> > > egocentric

> > > > > i.e.

> > > > > > > > > their

> > > > > > > > > > > view of the

world is based on the individual

> rather

> > > than

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > society. They

may or may not be egotistical (i.e.

> > > > > > > > > egocentricity does

> > > > > > > > > > > not imply self

importance) - the AK simply makes

> them

> > > go

> > > > > > > through

> > > > > > > > > > > experiences in

life such that their core self is

> > > tested.

> > > > > How

> > > > > > > they

> > > > > > > > > > > respond to it

depends probably on lots of other

> > > > > astrological

> > > > > > > > > > > factors. The

only statement I can safely make,

> based

> > > on

> > > > > pure

> > > > > > > > > > > experience, is

that Sun AK people are guided to

> > > divinity

> > > > > > > through

> > > > > > > > > > > experiences of

the self, consequently their view

> is

> > > > > > > egocentric.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I know one Sun

AK woman (dont know if I can share

> her

> > > > > data)

> > > > > > > > > who was

> > > > > > > > > > > molested (by her

own professor) and denied a

> higher

> > > degree

> > > > > > > > > that she

> > > > > > > > > > > worked hard for,

then get married and then

> divorced,

> > > then

> > > > > > > have her

> > > > > > > > > > > mom die of

cancer in a rather painful way, then

> have

> > > her

> > > > > > > > > brother get

> > > > > > > > > > > divorced in a

messy lawsuit (and then leave her

> too),

> > > then

> > > > > > > > > (she) get

> > > > > > > > > > > married again

and her husband develop terminal

> cancer

> > > very

> > > > > > > soon

> > > > > > > > > > > afterward. Net

result: she cant seem to find a

> strong

> > > and

> > > > > > > > > consistent

> > > > > > > > > > > support outside

of herself - she has become self

> > > reliant

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > only

> > > > > > > > > > > finds consistent

happiness in meditation/reiki.

> She is

> > > > > > > probably

> > > > > > > > > > > egotistical in

some degree too, but not in any

> > > outstanding

> > > > > > > way at

> > > > > > > > > > > all, and

probably much less than all the people

> around

> > > > > her..

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Consequently, I

really dispute the fact that Sun

> AK

> > > people

> > > > > > > must

> > > > > > > > > > > learn to "reduce

their ego". That is simply a

> general

> > > > > lesson

> > > > > > > > > for all

> > > > > > > > > > > of mankind. Sun

AK people's AK will guide them

> towards

> > > > > > > divinity

> > > > > > > > > > > through

experiences that make them focus on

> > > themselves and

> > > > > > > search

> > > > > > > > > > > for the truth:

now that's the statement I find

> much

> > > more

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > point.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Comments?

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Thanks,

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Sundeep

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > --- In

sohamsa@ .com

> > > > > > > > > > >

<sohamsa%40>, nix nixen

> > > <nix_nixen@

> > > > > ..>

> > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave

Namah

> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Nitish,

> > > > > > > > > > > > Only from

one simple statement of yours "It is

> not

> > > > > always

> > > > > > > > > > > possible for

me..." i read that your AK must be

> > > nothing

> > > > > less

> > > > > > > than

> > > > > > > > > > > Sun. Am i right?

If yes, then i think i`m on the

> right

> > > > > way of

> > > > > > > > > > > finding answers

on my queries.

> > > > > > > > > > > > Warm

regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > Tijana

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > yeeahoo_99

<nitish.arya@ ...> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Tijana,

> > > > > > > > > > > > Raja Yoga

is the yoga of soul with paramatma -

> deep/

> > > > > shallow,

> > > > > > > > > > > >

material/spiritual - all kind of things have a

> basis

> > > > > only in

> > > > > > > > > > > > paramatma.

Thus, even Raja-bhanga yoga has a

> basis

> > > i.e.

> > > > > > > > > separation

> > > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > soul from

paramatma (which is illusory only

> though)

> > > and

> > > > > > > hence

> > > > > > > > > > > >

material/spiritual loss depending on the kind of

> > > karma

> > > > > > > involved.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > As the lord

of a sign, a planet rules a 12th

> part

> > > of the

> > > > > > > > > > > >

consciousness, relatively . Thus, in part, it

> > > becomes

> > > > > its

> > > > > > > > > > > >

responsibility to guide the affairs of that

> sign/

> > > house

> > > > > > > towards

> > > > > > > > > > > >

fulfillment. You may explore it further.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > It is not

always possible for me to answer to

> your

> > > > > specific

> > > > > > > > > > > queries.

> > > > > > > > > > > > Hopefully,

in time, you will discover the truth

> of

> > > your

> > > > > > > queries.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > best

regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > nitish

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

sohamsa@ .com

> > > > > > > > > > >

<sohamsa%40>,

> "tijanadamjanovic"

> > > > > > > > > <nix_nixen@>

> > > > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Om

Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear

Nitish,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes,

all must serve. The questions raised in

> these

> > > > > > > discussions

> > > > > > > > > > > on Atma

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

karakas were on the specific way of serving.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > If we

say that Sun AK must learn principles of

> > > artha

> > > > > > > > > shastra to

> > > > > > > > > > > serve,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > the

same stands for Ma and Ju AK? How to

> > > > > differentiate? I

> > > > > > > > > assume

> > > > > > > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > > > > > > are

taking karakatvas of the houses into

> account

> > > also

> > > > > > > > > (2nd, 6th,

> > > > > > > > > > > 10th)?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > The

Sun/Raja gets service on the throne, but

> > > regarding

> > > > > > > > > > > spirituality

> > > > > > > > > > > > > and

Atma this is related to real Raja yoga

> whose

> > > > > deepest

> > > > > > > > > meaning

> > > > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

inseparable from 10th house of indriyas (refer

> > > > > > > Vivekananda) .

> > > > > > > > > > > Only in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > that

sense we can talk of Janaka or the

> perfect

> > > King.

> > > > > What

> > > > > > > > > artha

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

shastra principles you had in mind?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Warm

regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Tijana

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

sohamsa@ .com

> > > > > > > > > > >

<sohamsa%40>,

> > > > > > > "yeeahoo_99" <nitish.arya@ >

> > > > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

|| Om TAT SAT ||

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Dear Tijana,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> To fulfill ones own dharma is what you

> > > probably

> > > > > had in

> > > > > > > > > mind

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> mentioning Gita in this context.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Context that was intended is Gita Chapter

> > > 3,sloka

> > > > > 22.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

All must work if the lord of the cosmos has

> > > chosen

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > work.

> > > > > > > > > > > Thus,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

there is nothing specific that only SUN AK

> has

> > > to

> > > > > > > > > "serve", all

> > > > > > > > > > > AKs

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

"serve".

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> But, are you implying that Sun AK gives a

> > > person

> > > > > akin

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > Janaka?!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Yes, Sun AK gives a person akin to Janaka -

> > > > > jivanmukta -

> > > > > > > > > > > provided

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

enough effort has been put in.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> Are you determing dharma based on this?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

No, Sun AK need not be 9th lord.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> Will you advise Sun AK people to take

> > > > > Dhartharastra

> > > > > > > as an

> > > > > > > > > > > example!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Yes.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

The attitude of service is seen from 6th

> house.

> > > Leo

> > > > > > > being a

> > > > > > > > > > > dharma

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

trikona sign fulfills its purpose of service

> > > through

> > > > > > > 10th

> > > > > > > > > > > house of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Artha, which is 6th from it. So a Sun AK

> should

> > > > > learn

> > > > > > > > > > > principles of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

artha shastra to serve.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> So, again, what Raja will hardly ever do

> is

> > > > > serving.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

All souls have to "Serve" only as there is

> > > nothing

> > > > > else

> > > > > > > > > to be

> > > > > > > > > > > done

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

in the three worlds because Krishna has

> already

> > > > > achieved

> > > > > > > > > > > everything

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

that is there to achieve in the three

> > > worlds(refer

> > > > > > > Gita).

> > > > > > > > > > > Those who

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

do not serve, are reborn to learn to serve,

> > > > > whatever be

> > > > > > > > > their

> > > > > > > > > > > AK.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> Swami Vivekananda` s Dharm bhava lord was

> Sun

> > > AK

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > lagna in

> > > > > > > > > > > Dhanus

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> (extraordinary combination for unselfish

> > > giving by

> > > > > > > > > itself).

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> But do you think it`s a coincidence that

> His

> > > > > Master

> > > > > > > had

> > > > > > > > > > > exalted

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Saturn in 9th

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> bhava and Rahu AK? What do you think, why

> even

> > > > > Swami

> > > > > > > > > needed

> > > > > > > > > > > these?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

One is not re-born after exhausting his

> karma/

> > > > > desires.

> > > > > > > Thus,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

vivekananda (Rahu PiK) came here to exhaust

> his

> > > > > > > remaining

> > > > > > > > > > > karma/

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

desires with Ramakrishna (Rahu AK). There

> is no

> > > more

> > > > > > > > > substance

> > > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

this than a past-life karmic relationship of

> > > the two

> > > > > > > which

> > > > > > > > > > > continued

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

in this birth also.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

NITISH

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

sohamsa@ .com

> > > > > > > > > > >

<sohamsa%40>,

> > > "tijana" <nix_nixen@>

> > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> Dear Nitish,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> Your elaboration would be even more

> brilliant

> > > if

> > > > > you

> > > > > > > had

> > > > > > > > > > > just answer

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> my question.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> To fulfill ones own dharma is what you

> > > probably

> > > > > had in

> > > > > > > > > mind

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

mentioning

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> Gita in this context. But, are you

> implying

> > > that

> > > > > Sun

> > > > > > > AK

> > > > > > > > > > > gives a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> person akin to Janaka?! Are you determing

> > > dharma

> > > > > > > based on

> > > > > > > > > > > this? Will

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> you advise Sun AK people to take

> > > Dhartharastra as

> > > > > an

> > > > > > > > > > > example!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> So, again, what Raja will hardly ever do

> is

> > > > > serving.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> Swami Vivekananda` s Dharm bhava lord was

> Sun

> > > AK

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > lagna in

> > > > > > > > > > > Dhanus

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> (extraordinary combination for unselfish

> > > giving by

> > > > > > > > > itself).

> > > > > > > > > > > But do

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

you

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> think it`s a coincidence that His Master

> had

> > > > > exalted

> > > > > > > > > Saturn

> > > > > > > > > > > in 9th

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> bhava and Rahu AK? What do you think, why

> even

> > > > > Swami

> > > > > > > > > needed

> > > > > > > > > > > these?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> Warm regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> Tijana

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> sohamsa@ .com

> > > > > > > > > > >

<sohamsa%40>,

> > > > > > > "yeeahoo_99" <nitish.arya@ >

> > > > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > || Om Tat Sat ||

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > Dear Tijana,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > What is the thing that Raja will

> hardly

> > > ever

> > > > > do?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > Read up Gita, arthashastra and ancient

> texts

> > > > > that

> > > > > > > show

> > > > > > > > > > > what

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

all a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > Raja has to do to ensure that his

> subjects

> > > are

> > > > > > > protected

> > > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

progress

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > on the upward evolutionary path. Look at

> > > > > krishna,

> > > > > > > Janaka

> > > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > ChandraGupta Maurya and you will

> understand

> > > > > whatever

> > > > > > > > > > > that "hardly

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > ever do" equates to.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > Otherwise, going by your statement, AK

> > > wouldn't

> > > > > do

> > > > > > > > > > > anything

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

being

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > the king of the horoscope and the rest

> of

> > > the

> > > > > > > > > karakas (BK,

> > > > > > > > > > > PiK,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Puk,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > GK) i.e. his subjects will follow the

> suit!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > Actually, the mantra is "Shiva jnane

> Jiva

> > > > > > > Seva" (serving

> > > > > > > > > > > every

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > being as the full manifestation of God)

> that

> > > > > > > > > Narendranath

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

received

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > from his Master Ramakrishna who had Sun

> in

> > > > > Aquarius.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > Being Sun AK, Vivekananda had developed

> > > peculiar

> > > > > > > > > sharpness

> > > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > perception and assimilation that

> empowered

> > > him

> > > > > with

> > > > > > > > > > > unusual power

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > pick up 'the gems' from the talks of his

> > > Master.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > With Sun in Sagittarius, he could, as

> > > compared

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > others,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

easily

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > 'see' the deep meaning in the words of

> Sri

> > > > > > > Ramakrishna,

> > > > > > > > > > > even

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

though

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > the Master told them in simple language

> (Aq

> > > > > Sun),

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > never as

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > preaching.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > With its dispositor Jupiter in Libra,

> > > gradually

> > > > > > > Swami

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Vivekananda

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > started assimilating tips and hints on

> > > practical

> > > > > > > Vedanta

> > > > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

could

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > benefit individual and collective life

> in

> > > the

> > > > > > > society.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > "...For spiritual persons Sun as AK

> > > should be

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter`s

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

signs

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > (Shiva jnane...), otherwise it`s very

> hard

> > > > > > > task..."

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > Putting up statements like you have

> done is

> > > not

> > > > > > > > > wise. Sri

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Yukteswar

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > Giri, has Sun AK placed in Aries and had

> > > > > attained

> > > > > > > > > highest

> > > > > > > > > > > level

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > spirituality. Even if Sun AK is placed

> in

> > > > > Libra, it

> > > > > > > > > could

> > > > > > > > > > > be the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

most

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > spiritual person.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > AK shows the spiritual power of a sign

> over

> > > the

> > > > > > > rest of

> > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

signs/

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > planets in the chart and this spiritual

> > > power

> > > > > > > manifests

> > > > > > > > > > > through

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > dispositor of AK and its sign placement.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > NITISH

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > sohamsa@ .com

> > > > > > > > > > >

<sohamsa%40>,

> > > "tijana" <nix_nixen@>

> > > > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > Dear Su,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > Sun is the Self. Its qualities are

> those

> > > of

> > > > > Raja

> > > > > > > > > (karaka

> > > > > > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > first house, lord of the 5th, dig

> bala in

> > > > > 10th).

> > > > > > > > > What is

> > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

thing

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > that Raja will hardly ever do? The

> lesson

> > > > > that has

> > > > > > > > > to be

> > > > > > > > > > > learnt

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > by

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > Sun AK is serving, in the highest

> sence it

> > > > > gives

> > > > > > > > > "Shiva

> > > > > > > > > > > jnane

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Shiva

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > seva" (service of man as God)-the

> divine

> > > > > lesson

> > > > > > > > > given to

> > > > > > > > > > > us by

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > Swami

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > Vivekananda (Sun AK). For spiritual

> > > persons

> > > > > Sun

> > > > > > > as AK

> > > > > > > > > > > should be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > Jupiter`s signs (Shiva jnane...),

> > > otherwise

> > > > > it`s

> > > > > > > very

> > > > > > > > > > > hard task.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > Warm regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > Tijana

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > sohamsa@ .com

> > > > > > > > > > >

<sohamsa%40>, "v

> > > > > reality" <reality_v@>

> > > > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > Dear Bojan-ji

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > Thank you for your reply. Much

> > > appreciated.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > If I may ask another query re Sun

> AK.

> > > The

> > > > > lesson

> > > > > > > > > to be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

learnt

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > for

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > Sun AK,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > is the reduction of ego. Can this

> also

> > > be

> > > > > > > understood

> > > > > > > > > > > at a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > different level

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > as the effacement of 'self' in a

> > > spiritual

> > > > > > > sense?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > thanks

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > Su

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >Bojan Vidakovic <janbovid@>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >sohamsa@ .com

> > > > > > > > > > >

<sohamsa%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >sohamsa@ .com

> > > > > > > > > > >

<sohamsa%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >Re: Jupiter as

> AK

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >Wed, 22 Aug 2007 08:33:22 -

> 0700

> > > (PDT)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >HARE RAMA KRISHNA

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >Dear Su

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >I would add that with Gu AK person

> > > have to

> > > > > be

> > > > > > > very

> > > > > > > > > > > humble to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

all

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > spiritual

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >techers and natives, like priests,

> > > gurus,

> > > > > > > teachers.

> > > > > > > > > > > With Ma

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > AK

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > person must

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >practise Ahumsa (nonviolence) ,

> with

> > > Ch the

> > > > > > > > > native is

> > > > > > > > > > > always

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

very

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > caring,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >and gives emotions but the problem

> is

> > > that

> > > > > they

> > > > > > > > > never

> > > > > > > > > > > get

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

enough

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > for

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >themselves from other people. The

> > > person

> > > > > must

> > > > > > > learn

> > > > > > > > > > > lessons

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

also

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > from the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >people represented with AK. Ch /

> > > mother,

> > > > > Sy /

> > > > > > > > > father

> > > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > everything those

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >grahas represent.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >Take few examples of people you

> know

> > > and

> > > > > see

> > > > > > > it in

> > > > > > > > > > > praxix.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Best

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > wishes,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >Bojan

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >Hari Om Tat Sat

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@ >

> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > hraum namah adityaya

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > Dear Su,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > Person should use a lot of glass

> and

> > > sing/

> > > > > hum

> > > > > > > > > > > melodies.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > Rafal Gendarz

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > email: rafal@

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > v reality napisaÅ,(a): Dear

> Rafalji/

> > > > > Members

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > This is an interesting discussion.

> > > Could

> > > > > we

> > > > > > > > > discuss

> > > > > > > > > > > other

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

AKs

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > too. I read

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > in an article that natives with

> Moon

> > > as AK

> > > > > > > need to

> > > > > > > > > > > learn

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

to be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > more

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >caring

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > and loving to others. But I know

> of a

> > > > > chart

> > > > > > > where

> > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

native

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > already

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >by

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > nature very caring, loving and

> > > concerned

> > > > > about

> > > > > > > > > > > others

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

since

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > young. So

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >what

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > is the lesson to be learnt?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > thanks

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > Su

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@

> > > wp.pl>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >sohamsa@

> .com

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >sohamsa@ .com

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >Re: Jupiter

> as AK

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >Wed, 22 Aug 2007 10:24:14

> +0200

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > *hraum namah adityaya*

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >Dear LN Kumar,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >With Ju AK person should learn to

> > > respect

> > > > > > > others

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

knowledge

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >tradition,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >should be ready to learn from

> others.

> > > > > When Ju

> > > > > > > > > is in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

kendra to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > AK or is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >AK

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >himself then native thinks that

> he

> > > knows

> > > > > > > > > everything

> > > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

now

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > He

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > can share

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >His knowledge with everybody.

> Good

> > > > > teachers

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > course

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

comes

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > from

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >AK-Jupiter- Natives, as this

> graha

> > > will

> > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > > naturally in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > Karakamsa.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >With MA AK person should learn to

> > > > > catalyze

> > > > > > > > > energies

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

through

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > ZEN, TAI-CHI

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >or

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >other techniques, while with JU

> AK

> > > person

> > > > > > > should

> > > > > > > > > > > learn to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > more humble

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >regarding knowledge. Of course

> person

> > > > > can be

> > > > > > > > > > > focused on

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > Jupiter-

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > karakas

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >like kids, spirituality, law,

> luck

> > > etc.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >Mahadasa of AK brings lesson to

> us

> > > so its

> > > > > > > not so

> > > > > > > > > > > easy

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > materially but

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >inspiring spiritually, so if

> Surya

> > > is in

> > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > > > placement

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

from

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > AK

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > then it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >can

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >be not so bad as person is

> spiritual.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >Rafal Gendarz

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >narender kumar napisa?(a):

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >>Dear Gurujans,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >>Kindly throw some light on

> Jupiter

> > > as

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >>Atmakaraka and having Jupiter as

> > > > > mahadasha.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >>Respectful Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >>LN Kumar

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >>__________ __ _________

> _________

> > > > > _________

> > > > > > > > > > > _________

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > _________ _

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >>Take the Internet to Go:

> Go

> > > puts

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > Internet in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

your

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > pocket:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >mail,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >>news, photos & more.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >>http://mobile. <http://mobile./

> > > <http://mobile./>

> > > > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>>

> > > > > > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>

<http://mobile./

 

> > > <http://mobile./>>>

> > > > > > > > > <http://mobile./

<http://mobile./>

<http://mobile./

 

> > > <http://mobile./>>

<http://mobile./

<http://mobile./>

> > > > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>>>>>

/

> > > > > > > > > > > go?refer= 1GNXIC

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >><http://mobile. <http://

> mobile./

> > > <http://mobile./>

> > > > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>>

> > > > > > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>

<http://mobile./

 

> > > <http://mobile./>>>

> > > > > > > > > <http://mobile./

<http://mobile./>

<http://mobile./

 

> > > <http://mobile./>>

<http://mobile./

<http://mobile./>

> > > > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>>>>>

/

> > > > > > > > > > > go?refer=

1GNXIC>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > ____________ _________ _________

> > > _________

> > > > > > > > > _________

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

_________

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > _

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > Advertisement: It's simple! Sell

> your

> > > car

> > > > > for

> > > > > > > just

> > > > > > > > > > > $30 at

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > CarPoint.com.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >au

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > http://a.ninemsn. <http://

> a.ninemsn./

> > > <http://a.ninemsn./>

> > > > > <http://a.ninemsn./ <http://a.ninemsn./>>

> > > > > > > <http://a.ninemsn./ <http://a.ninemsn./>

<http://

> a.ninemsn./

> > > <http://a.ninemsn./>>>

> > > > > > > > > <http://a.ninemsn./

<http://a.ninemsn./>

 

> > > <http://a.ninemsn./

<http://a.ninemsn./>>

<http://

> > > a.ninemsn./

> > > > > <http://a.ninemsn./ <http://a.ninemsn./>>>>>

com.au/b.

> > > > > > > > > > > aspx?URL=

http%3A%2F%

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

2Fsecure%

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >2Dau%2Eimrworldw ide%2Ecom%

> > > 2Fcgi%2Dbin%

> > > > > > > 2Fa%2Fci%

> > > > > > > > > > > 5F450304%

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > 2Fet%

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > 5F2%

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >2Fcg%5F801459% 2Fpi%5F1004813%

> > > > > 2Fai%5F859641 &

> > > > > > > > > > > _t=762955845 &

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > _r=tig_AUG07 &

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >_m=EXT

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >Best wishes,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > SJC Guru Bojan Vidakovic

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > for articles and consultations

> visit

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >http://www.jataveda s.com

> > > > > > > > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/

<http://www.jatavedas.com/

> >

> > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/

<http://www.jatavedas.com/>>

> > > > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/

<http://www.jatavedas.com/>

 

> > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/

<http://www.jatavedas.com/>>>

> > > > > > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/

<http://www.jatavedas.com/>

 

> > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/

<http://www.jatavedas.com/>>

> > > > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/

<http://www.jatavedas.com/>

 

> > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/

<http://www.jatavedas.com/>>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >----------- --------- --------- ---

> -

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >Choose the right car based on your

> > > needs.

> > > > > > > Check out

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > Autos

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > new Car

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >Finder tool.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

____________ _________ _________ _________

> > > _________

> > > > > > > > > _________ _

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > Advertisement: Make shopping

> exciting.

> > > Find

> > > > > > > what you

> > > > > > > > > > > want at

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > www.eBay.com. au

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > http://a.ninemsn.

com.au/ <http://

> > > > > > > a.ninemsn.com.au/

> > > > > > > > > <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/

<http://a.ninemsn.com.au/>

 

> > > <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/ <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/>>

> > > > > <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/ <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/>

 

> > > <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/ <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/>>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > b.aspx?URL=http% 3A%2F%2Frover%

> > > 2Eebay%2Ecom%

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > 2Frover%2F1% 2F705%2D10129%

> 2D5668%2D323%

> > > > > > > 2F4%2F%3Fid%

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > 3D6 & _t=763807330 & _r=email_ taglines_

> > > > > EBAY & _m=EXT

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

------------ --------- --------- ---

> > > > > > > > > > > > Take the

Internet to Go: Go puts the

> Internet

> > > in

> > > > > your

> > > > > > > > > > > pocket: mail,

news, photos & more.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > ---------------------

> ----

> > > > > > > > > > > Be a better

Globetrotter. Get better travel

> answers

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://

 

> > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://>

> > > answers./

> > > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./

 

> > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./>>

> > > > > dir/

> > > > > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://

> answers./

> > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./>

> > > dir/

> > > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./

> dir/

> > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./dir/

> >>>

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > >

>

_ylc=X3oDMTI5MGx2aThyBF9TAzIxMTU1MDAzNTIEX3MDMzk2NTQ1MTAzBHNlYwNCQUJwaWxsYXJfTklfMzYwBHNsawNQcm9kdWN0X3F1ZXN0aW9uX3BhZ2U-?link=list & sid=396545469

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://

 

> > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://>

> > > answers./

> > > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./

 

> > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./>>

> > > > > dir/

> > > > > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://

> answers./

> > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./>

> > > dir/

> > > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./

> dir/

> > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./dir/

> >>>

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > >

>

_ylc=X3oDMTI5MGx2aThyBF9TAzIxMTU1MDAzNTIEX3MDMzk2NTQ1MTAzBHNlYwNCQUJwaWxsYXJfTklfMzYwBHNsawNQcm9kdWN0X3F1ZXN0aW9uX3BhZ2U-?link=list & sid=396545469>>from

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > someone who

knows.

> > > > > > > > > > > Answers -

Check it out.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

हरे राम कृष्ण॥

Dear Nitish, Namaskar

Thank you for your mail.

My answers below.

 

 

You wrote:

Your understanding is incorrect about who reaches God and how. As

per Gita Chapter 7 sloka 23:

"That result of theirs who are of poor intellect is indeed limited.

The worshippers of gods go to the gods. My devotees go to Me alone."

 

Irrespective of the AK, one devoted to Sri Krishna goes to him

alone. And this devotion doesn't happen till one is granted

buddhi-yoga by Sri Krishna (Chapter 10 sloka 10) as He is the source

of gods and great sages (Chapter 10 sloka 2).

Thus, its always good to learn to respect other souls, when you are

not knowledgeable about another persons' spiritual path.

 

Visti: You are right, i don't know your spiritual path. Do let me know

for curiosities sake, are you worshiping Krishna Murali, Gopal Krishna,

Jagannath or which Sri Krishna do you understand by Krishna's statement?

 

> Get a Guru, the Guru is the one who will ensure that

you are

> breathing the truth and not just your own beliefs.

 

Thanks for a generic advice. As long as one breaths, one breaths

ones' own beliefs only as breath is dualistic - exhalation and

inhalation. Adi shankara says: "Brahma Satyam Jagat Mithya" for the

same reason as Breath creates the illusion of world in the mind of the

breather.

To get out of this state of illusion caused by upward and downward

going currents of PRANA, KevalaKumbhaka (refer patanjali) is the aim

to be achieved through yoga practice. It merges the upward and

downward going breath currents to create a single current that moves

upwards and seeks its source in the highest region of cerebrum. Thus,

stabilized Prana Shakti brings about the state of Samadhi for union of

Jeevatma with the Monotheistic God.

 

If you feel you need a Guru, then may be you should find one. In my

opinion, it is not the Guru who imparts the Gyana, but the Divine

Mother (Kundalini shakti). While Guru guides the activities of a

Sadhak in all phases of awakening in one lifetime, divine mother knows

you in Life, Death, Bondage and Liberation and at times takes the role

of a Guru.

GURU comes only when ONE Omniscient Guru sees the sincerity of the

seeker but divine mother is always there at every step one takes. How

many Men know Sri Krishna in truth (Chapter 7 sloka 3, sloka 19) that

they can serve as a Guru and follow their disciples spiritual growth

across lifetimes?

Visti: Your own mother is your first teacher, she is indeed a

Guru. If she was not necessary in teaching you your first steps in

life, then maybe you don't need a Guru to teach you how to walk on the

spiritual path.

 

If you dont want to understand that Rahu cannot do two

roles in the

scheme of things (role of rebirth causing Ahamkara, and role of buddhi

as a spiritual faculty striving for liberation) then that is your

decision indeed, neither mine nor Adi Shankaras', and is based on your

beliefs about the scriptural truth.

Your beliefs will always follow you whereever you go, and realizing

this (with Buddhi), you shouldn't degrade yourself with wrong beliefs

(Manas) as you are your own friend (Atma) and your own enemy (Ahamkara).

Visti: I agree, you shouldn't either.

 

That basis is all that is necessary and sufficient by virtue of

Chapter 10 sloka 2:

 

"Neither the gods nor the great sages know My majesty (Prabhavam).

For, in all respects, I am the source of the gods and the great sages."

Visti: This sloka doesn't merit an exclusion of the eight

bondages either.

 

 

Indian philosophical system is based on revelations of spiritual

consciousness to the attuned minds of the devotees, and not on the

materially-driven musings of disordered minds. After you attain the

spiritual merit of a worthy** disciple Arjuna , your query will get

answered in Krishna consciousness (Chapter 10, sloka 1). Till that

happens, you may read my view and understanding of the same.

 

** worthy meaning one who accepts that to be true which Kesava tells.

Certainly, neither the gods nor the demons comprehend Your glory

(refer Chapter 10, sloka 14 - Sarvam etad rtam manye yan mama vadasi

kesava)

Visti: Again, this does not merit an exclusion of the eight

bondages. This sloka instead highlights the importance of the Gita, but

still doesn't merit any exclusion of any other texts or knowledge.

 

Here is my understanding:

1. Action happens through 8-instruments of Apara-Prakriti.

 

Visti: See my answers to this statement under 'para/apara prakriti'?

 

Chapter 5 sloka 14

"The Self does not create agentship or any objects (of desire) for

anyone; nor association with the results of actions. But it is Nature

that acts."

Chapter 7 sloka 4 states:

"Earth, water, fire, air, ether, Manah, Buddhi, and Ahamkara; thus

these are the eightfold divisions of my Prakriti."

 

2. Ignorant think otherwise due to Ahamkara and get bound.

 

Visti: So now your saying that ahamkara causes bondage? This means that

prakriti also causes bondage!

Please give me a clear answer now. According to you does prakriti cause

bondages: Yes? or No?

 

chapter 3, verse 27

"While actions are being done in every way by the gunas (qualities) of

Nature, one who is deluded by egoism thinks thus: 'I am the doer.'"

Chapter 5 sloka 12

"Giving up the result of work by becoming resolute in faith, one

attains Peace arising from steadfastness. One who is lacking in

resolute faith, being attached to the result under the impulsion of

desire, becomes bound."

 

3. Wise remains unattached to the results of the actions. Thus from

the doer/cause of the actions i.e. Prakriti.

Visti: Is this a new revelation of yours, as you seem to be

agreeing now that the eight Prakriti act as bondages. Know that the

point i have repeatedly tried to make from Shiva purana is: i) karma is

the cause of bondage; ii) the bondage is manifest in the form of

prakriti.

 

> THEN what respect do you give Lord Shiva who is the

> original composer of the Shiva Purana, who states that the Eight

> bondages are caused DUE to karma, and due to which we are Jeevatmas

> in this world? In other words, do you reject Shiva?

 

If one doesnt comprehend the apparent distinctions between Gita and

Shiva Purana, then it is due to the nature of buddhi

(Sattvic,rajasic,tamasic) of the person

concerned and not to be

attributed to the scriptures. I dont see Krishna and Shiva as separate

like you are trying to project here. Such fragmented knowledge as you

have in this matter is Tamasic as per Chapter 18 verse 22:

 

yat tu krtsnawat ekasmin kArye saktam ahaitukam

atatwArthawat alpam cha tat tAmsam udAhrtam ||18.22||

Visti: Nitish, I am not the one saying that

Shiva and Krishna are

different... I am saying that the Prakrti that Krishna speaks of is the

same as that spoken by Shiva, and that when Krishna speaks of karma

being the bondage, that Shiva speaks exactly the same. BUT, Shiva ADDS

and EXPLAINS clearly that prakrti binds the native DUE to the karmas

created by the atma.

 

> /From KathaUpanishad (III.Up.I.2.//3.

-13 & 14.)

> 'The Chariot of the Body': The five horses represent the five

> senses (tongue, eyes, nose, ears and skin). The rein symbolises the

> mind, the driver is the intelligence while the passenger is the

> jeevatma./

> Visti: So, which of the Sun or Rahu is the Jeevatma in this scheme?

 

This is not a separate scheme, it shows the inter-relationship of

Apara-Prakriti and Kshetrajnya (Jeevatma). We all know that Jupiter

represents Jeevatma which is Para-Prakriti, while we are talking about

Apara-Prakriti so far.

Visti: So now Rahu is also the significator for Jeevatma? So you

feel that Parasara's statement: 'sarva-atma ca dinanatho|,' does not

include Jeeva-atma? Or how about Saravali: 'aatma raviH|'?

 

Further, this is the commentary given by Adi Shankara on the

Apara-prakrti:

'Oh mighty-armed one, iyam, this; aparaa, the inferior

(prakrti) - not the higher, (but) - the impure, the source of evil and

having the nature of wordly bondage.

 

This should end any dispute about whether or not prakrti acts as a

bondage having quoted both Shankara's commentary on the Gita and Shiva

Purana.

 

This chariot of body, one may drive well and reach

Godhead, or else

one may drive whimsically causing him to return to the cycle of birth

and death.

Sankhya tells the sequence of dissolution in Prakriti. You can

appreciate that buddhi controlling mind is same as mind becoming

one-pointed and thus dissolving in buddhi. However, in this

representation, there is nothing like ahamkara controlling buddhi,

even though buddhi dissolves in ahamkara. This is because

Jeevanmuktatma, having dissolved ahamkara in chitta and chitta in Aum,

finds buddhi as the proper place to control the lower activities of

mind and senses.

Visti: Do explain your train of thought in these lines.

 

 

regards,

nitish

Looking forward to your reply.

Yours sincerely,

 

 

--

 

Visti Larsen - SJC Guru

Jaimini SJC - Denmark

email: visti

For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: http://srigaruda.com_,_._,___

[Guest guest]

हरे राम कृष्ण॥

Dear Nitish, Namaskar

Thank you for your reply.

There are two ways of answering any spiritually-linked question, and

thus also two roles to take, namely i) the idealist; ii) the realist.

The realist sees the problem as it is, and does not comment on what

needs to be done. The idealist understands the problem that the realist

speaks of, but doesn't speak of it and instead only speaks of the way

OUT of the problems given. This has colored the other discussion going

on, and i feel may be coloring this discussion.

 

You have cited volumes of information about the 'idealist' situation

of the Buddhi's function, but the 'realist' situation is that more than

90% of beings have little or no spiritual functions of their buddhi.

As a realist i have cited Shivas statement reg. Buddhi and the other

aspects of Prakriti: prakR^ityaadyaSTabandhena baddho jiivaH sa

uchyate| prakR^ityaadyaSTabandhena nirmukto mukta uchyate||

Translation: Because of remaining in eight types of bondages (of

prakriti), the soul is called Jeeva. When a person is released from

these bondages, the person is called Mukta.

 

This statement you have repeatedly ignored in each of your mails,

and when I confronted it to you the first time, you gave a vague

answer. So please answer this again. One doesn't need to be settled in

Brahma Vidya to read this from Shiva purana.

 

My comments below.

 

You wrote:

 

Your statements seem to project the sense that you have

established

yourself in Brahma Vidya, that enables you to understand the relative

importance of Gita vis-a-vis other texts or knowledge. You wouldn't

have made such an uninformed comment if you had read Chapter 9 from

Gita - in which Sri Krishna reveals "Raja Guhya Vidya" meaning

"Sovereign Secret knowledge" and it is the most confidential of all

knowledge there is as the first sloka of this chapter says:

 

"However, to you who are not given to envy I shall speak

of this

highest secret itself, which is Knowledge (Jnana) combined with

experience (Vijnana), by realizing which one shall be free from evil."

 

Therein, sloka 28, mentions "KARMA-BANDHANAIH" AS THE SOVEREIGN

SECRET and not "Apara-prakriti bandhanaih"!

 

Visti: Fine, fine, noone is saying that Karma isn't the cause of

Bandhana! Now read:

prakR^ityaadyaSTajo deho dehajaM karma uchyate| punashca karmajo deho

janmakarma punaH punaH||

Translation: The body is formed by the eight aspects of prakriti. The

activities of the body are called karma. The process of karma

starts from the body (being or prakriti), and thus the body of karmas

starts.

 

There is no disagreement at all, except you have yet to accept that

prakriti plays any role in the karmas.

 

Your reading and inferential mistake in what i have

written and

intended. Ignorant are those who are deluded by Apara-Prakriti

because they are ignorant about their divinity (15:7). They remain

mis-guided by ego as ahankara-vimudha-atma

and perform all actions

with Ahamkara. Such actions cause attachment and bind them to the

results thereof. THERE IS NO MENTION OF AHAMKARA AS THE CAUSE OF

BONDAGE!

Visti: I think you have the wrong reference for this sloka. I

couldn't find it.

 

Your favourite, Adi Shankaracharyas' commentary says:

 

" Apara hi Avidya Sa NiraKartavya. Tadvishaye Hi Vidite Na

Kinchittatvato Viditam Syaditi." i.e. the Apara vidya constitutes

only ignorance and so is to be rejected. By knowing it the truth

doesn't become known.

 

Adi Shankara has nowhere referred to Apara-Prakriti as a bondage,

given that he had wisdom to understand what Gita refers to by "Karma-

Bandhanat" in the most confidential Sovereign Science.

 

Given that I have been referring Gita all along in my

mails, my

answers dont change like relativities of time and space. KARMA IS THE

ONLY BANDHANA FOR JEEVATMA and there is no way i or you can change

the TRUTH BEHIND THOSE WORDS FROM THE SOVEREIGN SCIENCE OF SOUL.

 

It is time for you to question those beliefs that make you

stand so

confused with the bondage causing capabilities of Apara-Prakriti? Do

you even understand the meaning of worldly bondage? What kind of

bondage is this that cannot stop a soul from leaving the body like an

old, worn out cloth at DEATH?

 

Visti: Can you explain why Shiva apparently doesn't agree with you?

Who are you citing in with such confidence? What you have said so far

hasn't convinced me reg. the Apara-prakriti. If you surely knew the

truth, then you would have no problems in convincing me.

 

There is only one bondage for jeevatma and that is karmic

bondage,

which brings the soul back to the physical plane governed by the

Apara-Prakriti, otherwise upon death the soul doesn't necessarily

come back to the physical plane having gotten rid of the "so-called"

bondages of Apara-Prakriti once and for all.

Visti: Shiva Purana, Vidyesvara Samhita, Chapter 18. You are wrong.

 

Apara-Prakriti doesnt have any power over Jeevatma to bring it back

from the astral heavens and take rebirth, but for the causation of

Karma done with the sense of doership on the physical plane, when all

the actions are done by Apara-Prakriti under the supervision of the

Supreme Cause of all (Chapter 9 sloka 10), Sri Krishna.

 

Visti: mayaa.adhyaxeNa prakR^itiH sUyate sacaraacaraM| hetunaa.anena

kaunteya jagadvipativartate||

Translation by Gambhirananada: Under me as the

supervisor, the prakriti produces (the world) of the moving and the

nonmoving things. Owing to this reason, O son of kunti, the world

revolves.

 

Which translation are you quoting? Where did you get this stuff

about '...power over jeevatma...' are you making this up?

 

Thus, there can be no bondage possible for a Jeevatma,

which is a

DIVINE SPARK, amsha of Sri Krishna (**15:7), by anything lesser than

its own Sense of Doership due to Ignorance.

Visti: Whats this? You have now quoted the same sloka twice, and

given completely different translations?!

 

 

Chapter 9:10

"Under Me as the supervisor, the Prakrti produces (the world) of the

moving and the non-moving things. Owing to this reason, O son of

Kunti, the world revolves."

 

>BUT, Shiva ADDS and EXPLAINS clearly that prakrti binds the native

>DUE to the karmas created by the atma.

 

You wouldn't have been giving me such explanations if you had read

Raja-Guhya Yoga thoroughly, when it is the most confidential

knowledge of Para Vidya. Apara-Vidya doesn't hold these answers and

shiva purana text could have been wrongly-translated to mean bondage

where ignorance was intended!

Visti: NO!

prakR^ityaadyaSTabandhena baddho jiivaH sa uchyate| prakR^ityaadyaSTabandhena

nirmukto mukta uchyate||

 

There is no mistranslation. Just see the portion marked with bold

above. Again: Shiva purana, Vidyesvara Samhita, chapter 18, sloka 2.

 

 

It is important to realize the truth about worshipping the rest of

the deities.

 

Chapter 9:23

"Even those who, being devoted to other deities and endowed with

faith, worship (them), they also, O son of Kunti, worship Me alone

(though) following the wrong method (avidhi-purvakam)

 

Chapter 9:24

"I indeed am the enjoyer as also the Lord of all sacrifices; but they

do not know Me in reality. Therefore they fall."

 

Chapter 9:25

"Votaries of the gods reach the gods; the votarites of the manes go

to the manes; the worshippers of the Beings reach the Beings; and

those who worship Me reach Me."

 

Chapter 9:28

"Thus, you will become free from bondage in the form of actions which

are productive of good and bad results. Havng your mind inbued with

the yoga of renunciation and becoming free, you will attain Me."

 

Visti: These remaining slokas aren't part of our discussion i believe.

Personally i see this description of Krishna as the Ishta Devata in the

chart.

 

### For, rest of your comments ###

 

>Further, this is the commentary given by Adi Shankara on the Apara-

>prakrti:'Oh mighty-armed one, iyam, this; aparaa, the inferior

>(prakrti) - not the higher, (but) - the impure, the source of evil

>and having the nature of wordly bondage. This should end any

dispute

>about whether or not prakrti acts as a bondage having quoted both

>Shankara's commentary on the Gita and Shiva Purana.

 

Where is worldly bondage attributed to Apara-Prakriti in this sloka

7:5? Chapter 7:5

"O mighty-armed one, this is the inferior (Prakrti). Know the other

Prakrti of Mine which, however, is higher than this, which has taken

the from of individual souls, and by which this world is upheld

(dharyate)."

 

I have already mentioned the correct version of commentary from the

Adi Shanakara above. Swami Gambhirananda is incorrect in making this

statement from his own imagination:

 

"aparaa, the inferior (prakrti) - not the higher, (but) - the impure,

the source of evil and having the nature of worldly bondage".

 

In any case, you should first see the references (Karma-Bandhanat -

Chapter 2,9...) given in the original Gita Text before jumping on the

commentaries and their translations from whos' who and making your

own inferences that go out of the bounds as far as the original text

is concerned.

 

Visti: I see your point about Adi Shankara's commentary. I will review

this again.

 

>Visti: So now Rahu is also the significator for

Jeevatma? So you

> feel that Parasara's statement: 'sarva-atma ca dinanatho|,' does

> not include Jeeva-atma? Or how about Saravali: 'aatma raviH|'?

 

If you cannot stop reading-between-the-lines,

this exchange will

remain fraught with such irrelevant questions. All mails sent by me

confirm to this Jyotish Precept: "Surya represents SarvaAtma and

Jupiter represents Jeevatma"

Visti: How can you reject these slokas by Parasara and Kalyana

Verma? Do you have proof that Jupiter is Jeevatma? Or are you

interpreting Jupiters name 'jeeva' as jeevatma?

 

Also how do you know which Atma that Kalyana Verma is referring to?

In fact you don't and your unwillingness to accept otherwise has even

made you reject the slokas i quoted as being irrelevant.

Sun represents all three of atma, antaratma (jeevatma) and paramatma.

For this reason Surya represents deha (jaimini), the jeevatma (Parasara

- karakaadhyaya) and the paramatma (parasara -

grahagunasvaruupaadhyaaya).

 

In fact looking back at your mails to Tijana, you have confirmed in

great detail that "the role of Sun as atmakaraka is to understand the

relationship of other souls in this world". This in fact is the

description of the Sun according to Shiva, where he explains that this

role is taken on by Ishana and that Ishana is represented by the

Sun/Arka.

 

Looking forward to your reply.

Yours sincerely,

 

 

--

 

Visti Larsen - SJC Guru

Jaimini SJC - Denmark

email: visti

For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: http://srigaruda.com