[Fwd: Jupiter as AK (to Visti, Tijanaji, Nitish and v_reality)]

[Guest guest]

Om Gurave Namah

Dear Nitish,

Just look again what you`re conlusion is-Sun represents Buddhi in

eight-fold apara PRAKRITI scheme and is beyond Guna!

It seems as if you hold Buddhi to be Purusha himself. If do then what

is he doing in the eigh-fold division?

Buddhi forms Vijnanamaya Kosha that is modification of Prakriti

(Viveka Chudamani 185); Buddhi gives birth to Egoism (186) through

which he describes himself as Jiva.

" That which has been created by Buddhi and which is perceived in this

body as `I am this and that`-when that Egoism is totally destroyed

one attains Brahman. " (301)

So Egoism IS the primordial cause of everything that is preceived as

different.

Warm regards,

Tijana

 

 

sohamsa , " yeeahoo_99 " <nitish.arya wrote:

>

> || OM TAT SAT ||

> Dear Visti,

> > The Sun is not beyond the three Gunas... It is not Nir-guna. It

is

> > Sa-guna as it indeed exists in the sky. Among the three Guna it

is

>

> Nirguna doesnt' equate with non-existence but beyond Gunas.

> There is no sound basis in your statement of comparison as that

way

> you wouldnt be able to prove Brahman to a materialist.

> If Sun would be Sattvic by nature, all those workers who toil day

> and night in the Sun and receive the most energy, would be most

> Sattvic beings.

>

> > As food mixed with poison is called poison, similarly the

> > Unmanifest, which is the primordial Cause, is called egoism since

it

> > is imbued with the impressions resulting from egoism; and egoism

is

> > the impelling force (of all). It is indeed seen in the world that

> > egoism is the impelling cause behind all endeavour./

>

> Never mind dear, egoism is not a force at all, otherwise the most

> egoistic person would become the most forceful of all. Also, egoism

is

> not the primordial cause of anything except sense of egoism . As

far

> as food mixed with poison is concerned, ofcourse you are right, but

if

> you mean poison mixed with food, it is called poisoned " food " only.

> BTW, Unmanifest is not called egoism.

>

> >Cosmic intelligence exists as long as the creation exists, that

> > is why it is Hiranyagarbha. Hiranyagarbha has also been created.

> > Once there is no creation, then cosmic intelligence disappears.

>

> Ofcourse, cosmic intelligence disappears but dont tell me that God

> would use His inherent intelligence to first create cosmic

> intelligence, so it is not the created essence or Prakriti and hence

> beyond Gunas. As we see that God is more intelligent than that and

> cosmic intelligence disaapearing means, it is the last one to quit

the

> stage of creation. Thus, only God would have told you that cosmic

> intelligence is the last one to disappear and the first one to

appear

> . Right!

> The cosmic intelligence being the first, and beyond Gunas, would

not

> cease to exist or operate because it is Nir-Guna. Still, it is the

> cause of the Gunas of Prakriti.

>

> I hope you will understand that Sun is beyond three Gunas, and it

> represents Buddhi in the eight-fold apara prakriti scheme. In either

> case, i leave it to your discrimination.

>

> regards,

> nitish

>

> sohamsa , Visti Larsen <visti@> wrote:

> >

> > ??? ??? ??????

> >

> > Dear Nitish, Namaskar

> > This is my reply to your second mail. A combined response would

make it

> > easier for both of us.

> >

> > You wrote:

> > /Sun is beyond the three gunas of Prakriti - as u rightly pointed

out

> > with reference to sattvic, rajasic, and tamasic buddhi. It exists

as

> > the indestructible Cosmic intelligence aspect of God in creation

(TAT

> > - refer chapter 15) and is one of the three beings there are, the

> > destructible being (OM) and the uttermost being, Purushottama

(SAT)!/

> >

> > Visti: I didn't point this out, you misunderstood me. I was

trying to

> > justify that the context within which you were interpreting

Buddhi is

> > not justifiable from the perspective of Guna.

> > The Sun is not beyond the three Gunas... It is not Nir-guna. It

is

> > Sa-guna as it indeed exists in the sky. Among the three Guna it

is

> > Satvic by nature, but that is not a good reason for equating it

with

> > Buddhi, as Buddhi need not be satvic.

> > There is also a concept of 'Satvic ahamkara' according to

> > Shankaracharya, then where does Rahu fit in this scheme if he

cannot be

> > satvic?

> > Instead if the scheme were to be dependent on the function of the

> planet

> > in causing bondage, then we can come a long way. I.e. the Moon is

a

> > satvic graha, but the mana of many incarnates in this world is

far from

> > that. Instead we must know that the Moon causes the bondage of

having a

> > mana, as it is through the contact with our mothers womb during

> > conception that the mana begins to be aware to begin with -

> Varahamihira.

> >

> > The ahamkara existed BEFORE the mana existed, as the ahamkara

follows

> > the atma itself, and actually causes it to THINK that it is a

jeevatma.

> > Hence, Shankaracharya in his commentary describes the ahamkara

as: /By

> > ahamkara, egoism, is meant the Unmanifest, associated with

(Cosmic)

> > ignorrance. As food mixed with poison is called poison, similarly

the

> > Unmanifest, which is the primordial Cause, is called egoism since

it is

> > imbued with the impressions resulting from egoism; and egoism is

the

> > impelling force (of all). It is indeed seen in the world that

egoism is

> > the impelling cause behind all endeavour./

> > All the parenthesis' have been added by Swami Gambhirananda.

> > So, based on this commentary it seems clear that the ahamkara is

the

> > first created from the shunya/unmanifest.

> >

> > Now, this is how Shankaracharya describes Buddhi: /By buddhih,

> > intellect, is meant the principle called mahat* which is the

source of

> > egoism./

> > */Mahat means Hiranyagarbha, or Cosmic Intelligence. -

Gambhirananda./

> >

> > This is the Buddhi which I have tried to tell you about! After

all, how

> > can any aspect of /prakriti /carry a purely auspicious quality if

> > prakriti exists only in this material abode, and NOT in the

> non-material

> > abode.

> > Now, see that Shankaracharya states that Buddhi is the actual

cause of

> > the ahamkara to be created! Doesn't this sound like the veil of

Rahu

> > over the Atma?

> >

> > You wrote:

> > /In truth, there is never an eclipse for Sun because the Cosmic

> > intelligence is indestructible and hence never does it stop

> > functioning///invisible///eclipsed during a cycle of creation./

> >

> > Visti: Cosmic intelligence exists as long as the creation exists,

that

> > is why it is Hiranyagarbha. Hiranyagarbha has also been created.

Once

> > there is no creation, then cosmic intelligence disappears.

> >

> > Looking forward to your reply.

> > Yours sincerely,

> >

> > --

> > Visti Larsen - SJC Guru

> > Jaimini SJC - Denmark

> > email: visti@ <visti@>

> > For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit:

http://srigaruda.com

> > <http://srigaruda.com>

> >

> > yeeahoo_99 wrote:

> > >

> > > || OM TAT SAT ||

> > > Dear Visti,

> > > Hope you are fine. You dont seem to be replying to my mail. Is

it

> > > so badly written?

> > > My only objective was to bring out the truth for all including

> > > myself, but, in doing so, the strong and long held beliefs of

people

> > > get hurt.

> > > Am happy, that while writing these mails, i learnt much more

than

> > > what is visible, and this learning cannot happen in isolation.

The

> > > reason for my joining this list is to stay in touch.

> > > Somehow, i always felt that people dont respond to the

> > > mails/queries i send. May be it happens with everybody.

> > >

> > > Just wanted to finish with this one incomplete statement from my

> > > last mail:

> > >

> > > " Karma is the only bandhana that Gita mentions, as Sri Krishna

> > > couldn't have possibly missed/ignored the rest of the bandhanas

as it

> > > is His Apara-Prakriti.

> > >

> > > Sun is beyond the three gunas of Prakriti - as u rightly

pointed out

> > > with reference to sattvic, rajasic, and tamasic buddhi. It

exists as

> > > the indestructible Cosmic intelligence aspect of God in

creation (TAT

> > > - refer chapter 15) and is one of the three beings there are,

the

> > > destructible being (OM) and the uttermost being, Purushottama

(SAT)!

> > >

> > > For purposes of learning souls on path to self-knowledge, Sun,

in

> > > Jyotish, is seen as identified with Sattvic Guna destructible

Prakriti

> > > for the deepest reasons**, thus creating a cause for it to be

eclipsed

> > > by Tamo Guna of Rahu (Ahamkara causing bodily rebirth).

> > >

> > > In truth, there is never an eclipse for Sun because the Cosmic

> > > intelligence is indestructible and hence never does it stop

> > > functioning/invisible/eclipsed during a cycle of creation. An

eclipse

> > > of Sattva Guna of Sun can only have the deepest learning for the

> > > jeevatma as the acquisition of ultimate wisdom to go beyond the

Gunas

> > > of destructible Prakriti. "

> > >

> > > ** A sharp intelligence is a blessing of God and a privilege

given to

> > > Human, that wise use for upliftment to Godhood, mediocre use for

> > > fulfillment of their desires and ignorant use for self-

destruction.

> > >

> > > regards,

> > > nitish

> > >

> > > sohamsa <sohamsa%

40>,

> > > Visti Larsen <visti@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > -------

> > > > Re: Jupiter as AK (to Visti, Tijanaji, Nitish and

> v_reality)

> > > > Sun, 09 Sep 2007 14:41:01 -0000

> > > > csna25 <csna25@>

> > > > Visti Larsen <visti@>

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > || OM TAT SAT ||

> > > > Dear Visti,

> > > > > Visti: Why does it include those who practice the sohamsa-

mantra

> > > > yajna?

> > > > Sohamsa is the mantra of breath - initiation a soul receives

from

> > > > Sri Krishna to progress on the path to evolution. This is the

> > > > uninterrrupted only living parampara there is.

> > > >

> > > > >Visti: How can I know what Krishna meant? Thats why i cited

Adi

> > > > >Shankaras commentary, and now you are giving your own

commentary.

> > > > > Should i believe in your commentary or that of Adi Shankara?

> > > >

> > > > Chapter 6 sloka 5:

> > > > uddharedatmanatmanam natmanamavasadayet

> > > > atmaiva hyatmano bandhuratmaiva ripuratmanah -5-

> > > >

> > > > > You are equating Buddhi with a spiritual faculty, and this

is your

> > > > > basis for equating Buddhi with the Sun. Your intent is

clear in

> > > > > this. Then why didn't you equate Buddhi with Jupiter or

Ketu?

> > > > > Surely Ketu is much more spiritual than Sun.

> > > >

> > > > In eightfold-Prakriti, Jupiter represents Akash Tattwa.

> > > > Ketu is not there in the scheme of Eightfold-Apara-prakriti,

as it

> > > > would rather show a state after liberation from Prakriti.

> > > > Rahu, being the literal/zodiacal/mathematical opposite of

Ketu,

> > > > has Zero-affinity towards liberation of a being (as you

wrote, it

> > > > causes rebirth).

> > > > Sun is the only graha that performs the role of Buddhi as a

> > > > spiritual faculty.

> > > >

> > > > > Visti: Again, just because a PURE buddhi enhances ones

spiritual

> > > > > efforts, it doesn't mean it is signified by the Sun.

> > > >

> > > > In the eight-fold scheme, Sun as PURE buddhi directs spiritual

> > > > effort after Rahu has done its role of bringing the soul back

to a

> > > > physical body.

> > > >

> > > > > Again, the basis of this statement itself is doubtful, due

to

> which

> > > > > you would have to equate Ketu with Buddhi based on your

> > > > > statements. Based on what you have written how can you

classify

> > > > > Buddhi as a Bandhana?

> > > >

> > > > Karma is the only bandhana that Gita mentions.

> > > >

> > > > > Visti: I don't think my Jyotish Guru is wrong. Also how do

you

> > > > > justify that the bandhana has to be decided based on wisdom

of the

> > > > > graha? Since when do Moon and Rahu not make spiritual

efforts?

> Moon

> > > > > in eighth house makes the person meditate and perform

kundalini

> > > > > yoga, whilst Rahu in tenth makes the person go on

pilgrimages and

> > > > > visit tirthas. The Sun doesn't even meditate, he just has

> faith and

> > > > > goes to temple. Its Ketu who causes meditation, and its in

the

> > > > > junction with Jupiter that he does so through a Guru, and

its

> > > > > junction with Venus does so indendently.

> > > >

> > > > Sun forms Shiva yoga with Ketu, and is exalted in

constellation of

> > > > Ketu. Mind doesnt make any spiritual effort but needs to be

> > > > controlled (6:34).

> > > >

> > > > From KathaUpanishad (III.Up.I.2.3. -13 & 14.)

> > > > 'The Chariot of the Body': The five horses represent the five

senses

> > > > (tongue, eyes, nose, ears and skin). The rein symbolises the

mind,

> > > > the driver is the intelligence while the passenger is the

jeevatma.

> > > >

> > > > http://fixedreference.org/2006-Wikipedia-CD-

Selection/images/46/

> > > <http://fixedreference.org/2006-Wikipedia-CD-

Selection/images/46/>

> > > > 4642.jpg

> > > >

> > > > In Mahabharata war scenario, Sri Krishna as driver of Arjunas'

> > > > chariot is the guiding intelligence of the jeevatma and

> controller of

> > > > the reins of the mind. This is the most perfect example of

Guru-

> > > > Shishya relationship there is!

> > > >

> > > > regards,

> > > > Nitish

> > > >

> > > > sohamsa <sohamsa%

40>,

> > > Visti Larsen <visti@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > ??? ??? ??????

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Nitish, Namaskar

> > > > > Thank you for your reply.

> > > > >

> > > > > You wrote:

> > > > > / Gita is the commentary of Parampara of Sri Krishna -

Arjuna,

> which

> > > > > includes everybody that practices the sohamsa mantra yajna.

Thus,

> > > > you

> > > > > can benefit by reading it as it is the only living

parampara till

> > > > > date.

> > > > > /

> > > > >

> > > > > Visti: Why does it include those who practice the sohamsa-

mantra

> > > > yajna?

> > > > >

> > > > > The Gita revived the Parampara's through Adi Shankara, as

he was

> > > > the one

> > > > > who brought it to the world, and it is one of his bhasyas.

But the

> > > > Gita

> > > > > itself is not a parampara, but the cause of all the other

> > > > paramparas to

> > > > > exist. Each Shankaracharya Mutt is a Parampara in itself and

> > > > continues

> > > > > to preach the vedas.

> > > > >

> > > > > Your statement denounces the importance of these Mutts. Are

you

> > > > > practicing the Sohamsa mantra-yajna through Sri Sri Ravi

Shankar?

> > > > He was

> > > > > taught by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi and its well known that the

origin

> > > > of

> > > > > Maharishi is the Jyotirmutt, thus making your Parampara the

same.

> > > > >

> > > > > /You wrote:

> > > > > A person who isn't fit to distinguish between what he ought

or

> > > > > ought not to do; do you think he is fit to practice

spirituality?

> > > > Sri

> > > > > Krishna is not really telling arjuna to practice materiality

> > > > anyways.

> > > > > /

> > > > >

> > > > > /If you don't understand the role of buddhi from this sloka,

> Gita is

> > > > > full of slokas that talk about buddhi as a spiritual faculty

> (Sun),

> > > > > unlike Ahamkara (Rahu)./

> > > > >

> > > > > Visti: How can I know what Krishna meant? Thats why i cited

Adi

> > > > > Shankaras commentary, and now you are giving your own

commentary.

> > > > Should

> > > > > i believe in your commentary or that of Adi Shankara?

> > > > >

> > > > > You are equating Buddhi with a spiritual faculty, and this

is your

> > > > basis

> > > > > for equating Buddhi with the Sun. Your intent is clear in

this.

> > > > > Then why didn't you equate Buddhi with Jupiter or Ketu?

Surely

> Ketu

> > > > is

> > > > > much more spiritual than Sun.

> > > > >

> > > > > /Chapter 3 sloka 1:

> > > > > Arjuna asks:

> > > > > " If Buddhi is greater than karma, Janardana

> > > > > Then why give me the order to be in this intense fight? "

> > > > >

> > > > > Chapter 3 sloka 42:

> > > > > Sri Krishna replies:

> > > > > " In the body the senses are superior

> > > > > >From the senses the mind is greater

> > > > > >From the mind the intellect (buddhi) is superior and

> > > > > Beyond the intellect is the Atman as the witness " /

> > > > >

> > > > > Visti: The word used in this sloka is not 'witness' but

> 'superior'.

> > > > Also

> > > > > the word 'Atma' is not from the translation, but from

> > > > Shankaracharyas

> > > > > commentary. The Atma is superior to the intellect, and in

this

> case

> > > > it

> > > > > refers to Angirasa's definition of Antaratma, and is

called 'the

> > > > self'

> > > > > according to Shankara.

> > > > >

> > > > > /Chapter 4 sloka 5 tells that many births of mine and yours

have

> > > > > passed.

> > > > > Chapter 6 sloka 43:

> > > > >

> > > > > " Acquiring wisdom (BUDDHI-SAMYOGAM) revived from the

previous body

> > > > > thereafter he endeavors once again for perfection. " /

> > > > >

> > > > > Visti: Again, just because a PURE buddhi enhances ones

spiritual

> > > > > efforts, it doesn't mean it is signified by the Sun.

> > > > >

> > > > > /> One could just as easily justify that since the main

cause of

> > > > > > rebirth is Rahu, the stronger the bondage of Rahu, so

also the

> > > > > > stronger the bondage of Buddhi and thus the eclipse

> > > > > > of the Sun/spirituality.

> > > > >

> > > > > Do you still have doubts that Sun refers to Buddhi? Rahu

> (Ahamkara)

> > > > > and Moon (manas) don't make spiritual efforts.

> > > > > Rahu cannot be considered to be wise, in this context, that

its

> > > > > " rebirth-causing-//bondage-quality " be used to achieve

perfection

> > > > and

> > > > > liberation in this birth. It is only good at helping a

> rebirth, not

> > > > > helping to liberate - thus it is not doing the function of

> Buddhi by

> > > > > 6:43.

> > > > > /

> > > > >

> > > > > Visti: I don't think my Jyotish Guru is wrong. Also how do

you

> > > > justify

> > > > > that the bandhana has to be decided based on wisdom of the

graha?

> > > > > Since when do Moon and Rahu not make spiritual efforts?

Moon in

> > > > eighth

> > > > > house makes the person meditate and perform kundalini yoga,

whilst

> > > > Rahu

> > > > > in tenth makes the person go on pilgrimages and visit

tirthas. The

> > > > Sun

> > > > > doesn't even meditate, he just has faith and goes to

temple. Its

> > > > Ketu

> > > > > who causes meditation, and its in the junction with Jupiter

> that he

> > > > does

> > > > > so through a Guru, and its junction with Venus does so

> > > > independently.

> > > > >

> > > > > Again, the basis of this statement itself is doubtful, due

to

> which

> > > > you

> > > > > would have to equate Ketu with Buddhi based on your

statements.

> > > > Based

> > > > > on what you have written how can you classify Buddhi as a

> Bandhana?

> > > > > Rahu is extremely useful at helping liberation... In fact i

can

> > > > justify

> > > > > how each planet can help liberation, but thats not a fair

> basis for

> > > > > justifying their Bandhanas.

> > > > >

> > > > > /How many of the 6 billion people, all born due to Rahu-

bond are

> > > > > using this birth to make a spiritual effort?

> > > > > /

> > > > >

> > > > > Visti: How about Ramakrishna Paramahamsa? How about Srila

> > > > Prabhupada?

> > > > > They are the causes of the largest spiritual missions in

India and

> > > > > abroad. I think they made great spiritual effort. They have

> Rahu as

> > > > > atmakaraka!

> > > > >

> > > > > Sun on the other hand causes problems with ahamkara in the

person.

> > > > > Citing Sanjay Rath:

> <http://www.srath.com/lessons/advanced/ak2.htm

> > > <http://www.srath.com/lessons/advanced/ak2.htm>>

> > > > >

> > > > > " *Planets as ätmakäraka: *1. Sun as AK indicates the native

> > > > has to

> > > > > learn to overcome his ego and should become humble. " refer:

> > > > > http://srath.com/lessons/advanced/ak.htm

> > > <http://srath.com/lessons/advanced/ak.htm>

> > > > >

> > > > > " Ahankära refers to its independent identity and is the

false ego

> > > > (*not

> > > > > Freud's ego*). This is false because the identity is not

permanent

> > > > and

> > > > > it is an ego as it helps to identify the object and

differentiate

> > > > it

> > > > > from the other bodies/creatures of its class or family.

This is

> > > > > represented by the Sun in astrology. " refer:

> > > > > http://www.srath.com/lessons/advanced/ak2.htm

> > > <http://www.srath.com/lessons/advanced/ak2.htm>

> > > > >

> > > > > Visti: note the careful reference to /ego /not being

equated with

> > > > > Freud's understanding of Ego.

> > > > >

> > > > > /Chapter 7 verse 10:

> > > > > " O Arjuna, try to understand me as the eternal origin of all

> living

> > > > > entities. I am the (BuddhirBuddhiMataA/ /smi) intelligence

in the

> > > > > intelligent, and the brilliance of the brilliant. "

> > > > >

> > > > > Chapter 10 sloka 10:

> > > > > " One who is always united with Me (see 6:18) and who

meditates

> upon

> > > > Me

> > > > > with love -- I bestow him with buddhiyoga (meaning

stillness) by

> > > > > which, he is the one who attains Me. "

> > > > >

> > > > > Chapter 15 sloka 20:

> > > > > (Etad Buddhva Buddhimaan syat KritaKrityascha bharata)

> > > > > " Understand with your intelligence this most secret science

that I

> > > > > have explained to you and become wise, and thereupon be

successful

> > > > in

> > > > > all your duties. "

> > > > >

> > > > > Chapter 18 sloka 30:

> > > > > " One who knows engagement and withdrawal, work and work

not to be

> > > > > done, fear and non-fear, bondage and liberation -- this

type of

> > > > > (Buddhi) intellect is sattvic. "

> > > > >

> > > > > Rahu cannot be Sattvic!

> > > > > /

> > > > >

> > > > > Visti: Does that mean Sun can be tamasic? How about all

those who

> > > > don't

> > > > > have satva budhi? Are you saying they don't have a buddhi

because

> > > > its

> > > > > not satvic? Your justification doesn't hold water.

> > > > >

> > > > > /Chapter 18, sloka 57:

> > > > > " Dedicate all action to Me from the (chetasa)heart,

extinguish

> > > > > wholly, be devoted to Me, take recourse in buddhi-yoga and

> keep your

> > > > > consciousness always on Me. "

> > > > >

> > > > > 18:30, 10:10 -- there is nothing like Ahamkara Yoga, but

Buddhi-

> > > > > Yoga. With Sun as ParamAtma, one would have a yoga with him

as

> > > > Buddhi.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thus, if buddhi is all that important all along from 2nd to

18th

> > > > > chapter, in Gita, lets understand it as a function of Surya

with

> > > > > Sattvic Buddhi. /

> > > > >

> > > > > Visti: If Satvic Budhi is the Sun, then is Sun also

Tamasic/impure

> > > > > Budhi? You are only dealing with the highest aspect of

Buddhi in

> > > > these

> > > > > slokas, and not speaking of Buddhi as a bandhana.

> > > > >

> > > > > Since our entire discussion revolves around Sun, Moon and

Rahu

> > > > which are

> > > > > the causes of the eclipse, i will quote a translation of

> > > > Dakshinamurti

> > > > > Stotra:

> > > > >

> > > > > rähugrastadiväkarendusadåço mäyäsamäcchädanät sanmätraù

> > > > > karaëopasaàharaëato yo'bhütsuñuptaù pumän |

> > > > >

> > > > > prägasväpsamiti prabodhasamaye yaù pratyabhijïäyate tasmai

> > > > > çrégurumürtaye nama idaà çrédakñiëämürtaye || 6||

> > > > >

> > > > > The Sun (atma) is eclipsed when the Moon (Mana) conjoins it

> and the

> > > > Moon

> > > > > is in the latitude as the orbital plane of the earth where

the

> > > > > intersection points are the nodes (Rahu & Ketu). It is this

Rahu

> > > > that is

> > > > > said to cause the eclipse. Simiarly, the Rahu of our lives

is our

> > > > own

> > > > > desires and sice Rahu is a node of the Moon (mana), the

> desires are

> > > > the

> > > > > creation of the mind. It is the coming together or

conjunction of

> > > > the

> > > > > atma (Sun), mana (Moon) and desires (Rahu) that causes an

eclipse

> > > > or

> > > > > birth itself.

> > > > >

> > > > > Visti: The key lies in this, namely that Rahu being a node

of the

> > > > Moon

> > > > > is the cause of desires created in the mind, and very much

deals

> > > > with

> > > > > the mind.

> > > > >

> > > > > Further; ATMA means self. There are three types of atma

according

> > > > to

> > > > > Angirasa, namely: Atma, Antaratma and Paramatma. The first

is the

> > > > body

> > > > > itself and its senses. The second is the abode of the

individual

> > > > soul or

> > > > > Jeevatma, and finally the Paramatma is God.

> > > > >

> > > > > So when Parasara and other seers stated that the Sun is the

atma,

> > > > they

> > > > > also refer to the entire gamut of definitions of the self.

> Ahamkara

> > > > is a

> > > > > function of 'thinking' one is the self, and is the bondage

that

> > > > caused

> > > > > the Jeevatma to separate from the Paramatma to begin with!

This is

> > > > > defined in the cosmology where the ahamkara merged with the

> various

> > > > > Gunas to cause the bhutas, etc. to manifest.

> > > > >

> > > > > Looking forward to your reply.

> > > > > Yours sincerely,

> > > > >

> > > > > --

> > > > > Visti Larsen - SJC Guru

> > > > > Jaimini SJC - Denmark

> > > > > email: visti@ <visti@>

> > > > > For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: http://

> > > > srigaruda.com

> > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>

> > > > >

> > > > > yeeahoo_99 wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > || OM TAT SAT ||

> > > > > > Dear Visti,

> > > > > > Gita is the commentary of Parampara of Sri Krishna -

Arjuna,

> which

> > > > > > includes everybody that practices the sohamsa mantra

yajna.

> Thus,

> > > > you

> > > > > > can benefit by reading it as it is the only living

parampara

> till

> > > > > > date.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > Visti: I don't have this translation. Is this an

inference?

> > > > > > > The last two words used here are: buddhinaashaat-

praNashyati =

> > > > > > > destruction of buddhi causes one to be

lost/dissapear/vanish/

> > > > > > perish. > Did you infer that it was spirituality which

perished?

> > > > To

> > > > > > this Adi

> > > > > > > Shankara comments: /Indeed, a man continues to be

himself so

> > > > long

> > > > > > as > his mind remains fit to distinguish between what he

> ought to

> > > > and

> > > > > > > ought not to do./

> > > > > >

> > > > > > A person who isn't fit to distinguish between what he

ought or

> > > > > > ought not to do; do you think he is fit to practice

> spirituality?

> > > > Sri

> > > > > > Krishna is not really telling arjuna to practice

materiality

> > > > anyways.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If you don't understand the role of buddhi from this

sloka, Gita

> > > > is

> > > > > > full of slokas that talk about buddhi as a spiritual

faculty

> > > > (Sun),

> > > > > > unlike Ahamkara (Rahu).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Chapter 3 sloka 1:

> > > > > > Arjuna asks:

> > > > > > " If Buddhi is greater than karma, Janardana

> > > > > > Then why give me the order to be in this intense fight? "

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Chapter 3 sloka 42:

> > > > > > Sri Krishna replies:

> > > > > > " In the body the senses are superior

> > > > > > >From the senses the mind is greater

> > > > > > >From the mind the intellect (buddhi) is superior and

> > > > > > Beyond the intellect is the Atman as the witness "

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Chapter 4 sloka 5 tells that many births of mine and

yours have

> > > > > > passed.

> > > > > > Chapter 6 sloka 43:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > " Acquiring wisdom (BUDDHI-SAMYOGAM) revived from the

> previous body

> > > > > > thereafter he endeavors once again for perfection. "

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > One could just as easily justify that since the main

cause of

> > > > > > > rebirth is Rahu, the stronger the bondage of Rahu, so

also the

> > > > > > > stronger the bondage of Buddhi and thus the eclipse

> > > > > > > of the Sun/spirituality.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Do you still have doubts that Sun refers to Buddhi? Rahu

> > > > (Ahamkara)

> > > > > > and Moon (manas) don't make spiritual efforts.

> > > > > > Rahu cannot be considered to be wise, in this context,

that its

> > > > > > " rebirth-causing-bondage-quality " be used to achieve

perfection

> > > > and

> > > > > > liberation in this birth. It is only good at helping a

rebirth,

> > > > not

> > > > > > helping to liberate - thus it is not doing the function of

> Buddhi

> > > > by

> > > > > > 6:43.

> > > > > > How many of the 6 billion people, all born due to Rahu-

bond are

> > > > > > using this birth to make a spiritual effort?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Chapter 7 verse 10:

> > > > > > " O Arjuna, try to understand me as the eternal origin of

all

> > > > living

> > > > > > entities. I am the (BuddhirBuddhiMataAsmi) intelligence

in the

> > > > > > intelligent, and the brilliance of the brilliant. "

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Chapter 10 sloka 10:

> > > > > > " One who is always united with Me (see 6:18) and who

meditates

> > > > upon Me

> > > > > > with love -- I bestow him with buddhiyoga (meaning

stillness) by

> > > > > > which, he is the one who attains Me. "

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Chapter 15 sloka 20:

> > > > > > (Etad Buddhva Buddhimaan syat KritaKrityascha bharata)

> > > > > > " Understand with your intelligence this most secret

science

> that I

> > > > > > have explained to you and become wise, and thereupon be

> > > > successful in

> > > > > > all your duties. "

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Chapter 18 sloka 30:

> > > > > > " One who knows engagement and withdrawal, work and work

not

> to be

> > > > > > done, fear and non-fear, bondage and liberation -- this

type of

> > > > > > (Buddhi) intellect is sattvic. "

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Rahu cannot be Sattvic!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Chapter 18, sloka 57:

> > > > > > " Dedicate all action to Me from the (chetasa)heart,

extinguish

> > > > > > wholly, be devoted to Me, take recourse in buddhi-yoga

and keep

> > > > your

> > > > > > consciousness always on Me. "

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 18:30, 10:10 -- there is nothing like Ahamkara Yoga, but

Buddhi-

> > > > > > Yoga. With Sun as ParamAtma, one would have a yoga with

him as

> > > > Buddhi.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thus, if buddhi is all that important all along from 2nd

to 18th

> > > > > > chapter, in Gita, lets understand it as a function of

Surya with

> > > > > > Sattvic Buddhi.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > Nitish

> > > > > >

> > > > > > sohamsa

> <sohamsa%40>

> > > > <sohamsa%40>,

> > > > > > Visti Larsen <visti@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > ??? ??? ??????

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Nitish, Namaskar

> > > > > > > Thank you for your mail.

> > > > > > > You mention a Parampara below. Please provide the name

of the

> > > > > > Parampara

> > > > > > > and its commentary for our benefit so we can read more.

In

> > > > > > answering

> > > > > > > your points, i will be using the Gita's commentary by

Adi

> > > > Shankara

> > > > > > -

> > > > > > > translated by Svami Gambhirananda.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > /1.) About Buddhi:

> > > > > > > Chapter 2 sloka 52, 53 -->

> > > > > > > " When Buddhi penetrates beyond darkness of delusion,

then you

> > > > shall

> > > > > > > be indifferent about the matters heard and to-be-heard./

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > /. "

> > > > > > > " ..Buddhi becoming securely anchored in soul bliss, one

> attains

> > > > > > yoga. "

> > > > > > > /

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > /Chapter 2 sloka 62,63 -->

> > > > > > > DECAY OF BUDDHI causes ANNIHILATION of spiritual life./

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Visti: I don't have this translation. Is this an

> inference? The

> > > > > > last two

> > > > > > > words used here are: buddhinaashaat-praNashyati =

> destruction of

> > > > > > buddhi

> > > > > > > causes one to be lost/dissapear/vanish/perish. Did you

infer

> > > > that

> > > > > > it was

> > > > > > > spirituality which perished? To this Adi Shankara

comments: /

> > > > > > Indeed, a

> > > > > > > man continues to be himself so long as his mind remains

fit to

> > > > > > > distinguish between what he ought to and ought not to

do./

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > /NOTE:- Jyotish tells us that Sprituality is related to

> Sun more

> > > > > > than

> > > > > > > Rahu, as seen in those with AK in kendra to Sun.

> > > > > > > /

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Visti: All eight of the bandhanas once tightened cause

loss of

> > > > > > > spirituality, not just Buddhi. If a student has so much

> ahamkara

> > > > > > that he

> > > > > > > believes he knows everything, then he will not read

books and

> > > > again

> > > > > > > spirituality is destroyed. If a one is fully engrossed

in his/

> > > > her

> > > > > > desire

> > > > > > > for procreation then again the spirituality is ruined.

The

> > > > latter

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > explained in Chapter 2, sloka 60. So all eight bandhas

cause

> > > > this

> > > > > > > problem, and not just Buddhi.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > /Chapter 2 sloka 65 -->

> > > > > > > Buddhi of the blissful man soon becomes firmly

established (in

> > > > the

> > > > > > > self).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Chapter 5 sloka 20 -->

> > > > > > > " The Knower of spirit, abiding in Supreme being, with

STHIRA

> > > > BUDDHI,

> > > > > > > free from delusion, is thus neither jubiliant at

pleasant

> > > > > > experiences

> > > > > > > nor downcast by unpleasant experiences./ / " /

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Visti: You are very right to give Buddhi such a high

pedestal

> > > > among

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > eight bandhas, because indeed the worst Bandha is that

of

> Buddhi

> > > > > > just as

> > > > > > > Rahu is the main karaka for all Bandhana of the soul.

> Overcoming

> > > > > > this,

> > > > > > > all the other bandhas break easily. This is the reason

Rahu is

> > > > the

> > > > > > main

> > > > > > > cause of rebirth. This is why the Shiva purana

> > > > (Satirudrasamhita)

> > > > > > states

> > > > > > > that the Shiva form who is able to control the bondage

of Rahu

> > > > is

> > > > > > > Pashupati. Shiva then explains that Pashupati is

> responsible for

> > > > > > > breaking all wordly bondages (pashupAshanikR^intanaM).

> > > > > > > According to Shiva, Ishana is the form of Shiva which

controls

> > > > > > Surya.

> > > > > > > More below.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > /2.) About AHAMKARA:

> > > > > > > Chapter 2 sloka 71 -->

> > > > > > > " That person realizes peace who, relinquishing all

desires,

> > > > exists

> > > > > > > without craving and is UNIDENTIFIED WITH AHAMKARA

(mortal ego)

> > > > and

> > > > > > > its sense of mine-ness. " /

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Visti: Adi Shankara comments that this actually refers

to one

> > > > > > becoming

> > > > > > > one with Brahman i.e. enlightenment. Among the forms of

Shiva

> > > > which

> > > > > > > specifically give this enlightenment

(sandIpayajjagatsarvam -

> > > > > > enlightens

> > > > > > > the entire universe), we see that the form of Ishana is

talked

> > > > > > about.

> > > > > > > Note that the word used is /SandIpa/, and this happens

to

> be the

> > > > > > Guru of

> > > > > > > Sri Krishna (SandIpani).

> > > > > > > However, this sloka from the Gita is not strictly for

> ahamkara,

> > > > but

> > > > > > for

> > > > > > > all the eight bandhas.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > /3.) About MANAS JOINED WITH BUDDHI:

> > > > > > > Chapter 2 sloka 51:

> > > > > > > " Those whose minds are joined to wisdom (BUDDHI-

YUKTA)/ /,

> > > > having

> > > > > > > abandoned action's fruit, Freed thus from bondage to

rebirth,

> > > > they

> > > > > > > attain the state beyond sorrow. "

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Also refer Chapter 13 slokas 1 - 11:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > " ...Indifference to sense objects, And absence of

egotism

> > > > > > > (NIRHAMKARA)/ /;...Constant evenmindedness in Desired

and

> > > > undesired

> > > > > > > events...With single-minded yoga,...Constant in

knowledge

> of the

> > > > > > Self,

> > > > > > > Seeing the goal of truth-knowledge--

> > > > > > > This is said to be true knowledge.

> > > > > > > The contrary is ignorance. "

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Chapter 8 sloka 9 refers

> > > > > > > " He who meditates on the Seer, the Ruler, The ancient,

subtler

> > > > than

> > > > > > > the atom, support Of all, Whose form is inconceivable

and

> > > > RADIANT

> > > > > > > LIKE THE SUN and beyond darkness. "

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > This proves beyond doubt and questioning the central

role of

> > > > > > > BUDDHI in the spiritual growth of a devotee like

ARJUNA. Now,

> > > > this

> > > > > > > role is not played by AHAMKARA or MANAS independently.

> > > > > > > Thus, Sun as dispeller of darkness is the only correct

> > > > assignment of

> > > > > > > the role of Buddhi.

> > > > > > > /

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Visti: Your inference implies that only one of the eight

> bandhas

> > > > > > deal

> > > > > > > with spiritual growth or its lacking. One could just as

easily

> > > > > > justify

> > > > > > > that since the main cause of rebirth is Rahu, the

stronger the

> > > > > > bondage

> > > > > > > of Rahu, so also the stronger the bondage of Buddhi and

> thus the

> > > > > > eclipse

> > > > > > > of the Sun/spirituality. Thus for this reason we

worship Sri

> > > > > > > Dakshinamurti on the day of the eclipse to be released

> from this

> > > > > > > Bandhana and get enighenment. This is what the Sadhu's

> practice.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Note the word Buddhi is used in three different ways in

> the gita

> > > > > > > according to Adi Shankara and Gambhiranandas

translation, viz.

> > > > i)

> > > > > > buddhi

> > > > > > > as a bandha, ii) samatva buddhi (pure buddhi) and iii)

> buddhi as

> > > > > > > enlightenment, and cannot be mixed arbitrarily.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > /Getting back to the eightfold Prakriti, Sun (Buddhi),

Moon

> > > > (MANAS)

> > > > > > > and Rahu (Ahamkara) is the only correct version as per

the

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > GURU-SHISYA PARAMPARA

> > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > Sri Krishna-Arjuna/

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The reason why in Jyotish most associate the Sun with

Ahamkara

> > > > in

> > > > > > > general terms, is because of the story of Vivasvan and

Sanjna

> > > > > > > (memory/recollection). In the story Vivasvans rays

become so

> > > > > > bright, and

> > > > > > > he became so knowledgeable (and self absorbed) that

Sanjna

> left

> > > > and

> > > > > > only

> > > > > > > left her shadow (false recollection) behind.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > He only could reunite with Sanjna once his father in-law

> reduced

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > rays of Vivasvan, and he could himself take on a form

that

> > > > Sanjna

> > > > > > was

> > > > > > > pleased with.

> > > > > > > So the story of Vivasvan/Surya tells us about this

nature of

> > > > > > Ahamkara.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Looking forward to your reply.

> > > > > > > Yours sincerely,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > --

> > > > > > > Visti Larsen - SJC Guru

> > > > > > > Jaimini SJC - Denmark

> > > > > > > email: visti@ <visti@>

> > > > > > > For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit:

http://

> > > > > > srigaruda.com

> > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>

> > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>>

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > yeeahoo_99 wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > || OM TAT SAT||

> > > > > > > > Dear Visti,

> > > > > > > > Lets look at what Sri Krishna tells Arjuna in Gita

about

> > > > Buddhi,

> > > > > > > > Manas and Ahamkara.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 1.) About Buddhi:

> > > > > > > > Chapter 2 sloka 52, 53 -->

> > > > > > > > " When Buddhi penetrates beyond darkness of delusion,

> then you

> > > > > > shall

> > > > > > > > be indifferent about the matters heard and to-be-

heard.. "

> > > > > > > > " ..Buddhi becoming securely anchored in soul bliss,

one

> > > > attains

> > > > > > yoga. "

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Chapter 2 sloka 62,63 -->

> > > > > > > > DECAY OF BUDDHI causes ANNIHILATION of spiritual life.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > NOTE:- Jyotish tells us that Sprituality is related

to Sun

> > > > more

> > > > > > than

> > > > > > > > Rahu, as seen in those with AK in kendra to Sun.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Chapter 2 sloka 65 -->

> > > > > > > > Buddhi of the blissful man soon becomes firmly

established

> > > > (in the

> > > > > > > > self).

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Chapter 5 sloka 20 -->

> > > > > > > > " The Knower of spirit, abiding in Supreme being, with

STHIRA

> > > > > > BUDDHI,

> > > > > > > > free from delusion, is thus neither jubiliant at

pleasant

> > > > > > experiences

> > > > > > > > nor downcast by unpleasant experiences. "

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 2.) About AHAMKARA:

> > > > > > > > Chapter 2 sloka 71 -->

> > > > > > > > " That person realizes peace who, relinquishing all

desires,

> > > > exists

> > > > > > > > without craving and is UNIDENTIFIED WITH AHAMKARA

(mortal

> > > > ego) and

> > > > > > > > its sense of mine-ness. "

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 3.) About MANAS JOINED WITH BUDDHI:

> > > > > > > > Chapter 2 sloka 51:

> > > > > > > > " Those whose minds are joined to wisdom (BUDDHI-

YUKTA),

> having

> > > > > > > > abandoned action's fruit, Freed thus from bondage to

> rebirth,

> > > > they

> > > > > > > > attain the state beyond sorrow. "

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Also refer Chapter 13 slokas 1 - 11:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > " ...Indifference to sense objects, And absence of

egotism

> > > > > > > > (NIRHAMKARA);...Constant evenmindedness in Desired and

> > > > undesired

> > > > > > > > events...With single-minded yoga,...Constant in

knowledge of

> > > > the

> > > > > > Self,

> > > > > > > > Seeing the goal of truth-knowledge--

> > > > > > > > This is said to be true knowledge.

> > > > > > > > The contrary is ignorance. "

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Chapter 8 sloka 9 refers

> > > > > > > > " He who meditates on the Seer, the Ruler, The ancient,

> subtler

> > > > > > than

> > > > > > > > the atom, support Of all, Whose form is inconceivable

and

> > > > RADIANT

> > > > > > > > LIKE THE SUN and beyond darkness. "

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > This proves beyond doubt and questioning the central

role of

> > > > > > > > BUDDHI in the spiritual growth of a devotee like

ARJUNA.

> Now,

> > > > this

> > > > > > > > role is not played by AHAMKARA or MANAS independently.

> > > > > > > > Thus, Sun as dispeller of darkness is the only correct

> > > > assignment

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > the role of Buddhi.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Getting back to the eightfold Prakriti, Sun (Buddhi),

Moon

> > > > (MANAS)

> > > > > > > > and Rahu (Ahamkara) is the only correct version as

per the

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > GURU-SHISYA PARAMPARA

> > > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > Sri Krishna-Arjuna

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > > > Nitish

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > sohamsa

> > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > > <sohamsa%40>,

> > > > > > > > Visti Larsen <visti@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > ??? ??? ??????

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Dear Nitish, Namaskar

> > > > > > > > > Thank you for this mail.

> > > > > > > > > I will be answering the main points of your mail.

The main

> > > > > > points

> > > > > > > > being

> > > > > > > > > the foundation of the facts/statements you present.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > /You wrote:

> > > > > > > > > So lets begin with Eightfold-Prakriti of Krishna,

your

> > > > reference

> > > > > > > > > point itself is incorrect. Gita Chapter 7 sloka 4

> states:...

> > > > > > > > > /

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I cannot disagree, as i had wrongly written prakriti

> > > > instead of

> > > > > > > > buddhi.

> > > > > > > > > Siva purana confirms this:

> > > > > > > > > */Siva Purana, Vishvesvara Samhita,4/*

> > > > > > > > > /Prakriti /comprises of buddhi, ahamkara,

gunaatmaka and

> > > > > > > > panchatanmatra.

> > > > > > > > > All these combined are called Prakriti.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > /You wrote:

> > > > > > > > > Neither the five tattwas, Buddhi nor Manah can be

assigned

> > > > to

> > > > > > Rahu

> > > > > > > > > and thus Ahamkara is the only thing that can

logically be

> > > > > > assigned

> > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > Rahu. So the correct version of eightfold

> representation of

> > > > > > Prakriti

> > > > > > > > > is:...

> > > > > > > > > /

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Mana and Buddhi can indeed both be attributed to

Rahu, as

> > > > Rahu

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > well

> > > > > > > > > known to show the desires of the mind. Here the

Parampara

> > > > comes

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > our

> > > > > > > > > help and specifically defines Buddhi to be assigned

to

> Rahu,

> > > > > > > > whereas

> > > > > > > > > Mana and Ahamkara have been assigned to Moon and Sun

> > > > > > respectively.

> > > > > > > > So

> > > > > > > > > why does Sun represent Ahamkara?

> > > > > > > > > aham = self. kaara=causative/doer. The cause of

self in

> > > > other

> > > > > > words.

> > > > > > > > > Monier Williams translates this as:

> > > > > > > > > /m. conception of one's individuality , self-

consciousness

> > > > > > ChUp. & c.

> > > > > > > > > the making of self , thinking of self , egotism

MBh. & c./

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Where Rahu caused the desire which led to rebirth,

it is a

> > > > given

> > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > the Sun is the actual creator of everything, and

with that

> > > > > > creation

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > ahamkaara is one of the negative effects of the

same. But

> > > > this

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > just

> > > > > > > > > my justification the traditions teachings.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > /You wrote:

> > > > > > > > > There is ONLY ONE bondage and not Eight of them.

Ahamkara

> > > > > > doesn't

> > > > > > > > > cause bondage of atma as you have written, but

Karma alone

> > > > > > causes

> > > > > > > > > bondage of atma, and is not a part of eightfold-

prakriti

> > > > > > referred

> > > > > > > > > above. Refer Gita Chapter 2 verse 39 as follows:

> > > > > > > > > /

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > The sloka you qoute is right, but your inference...

Heres

> > > > what

> > > > > > Siva

> > > > > > > > > Purana says:/

> > > > > > > > > /

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > */Siva Purana, Vishvesvara Samhita,2/*

> > > > > > > > > Because of remaining in eight types of bandhana, the

> soul is

> > > > > > called

> > > > > > > > > /Jeeva/. When a person is freed from these

bondages, the

> > > > person

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > called /Mukta.

> > > > > > > > > /

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > /*Siva Purana, Vishvesvara Samhita,3*

> > > > > > > > > /Emancipation is the control of these bondages of

prakriti

> > > > etc.

> > > > > > One

> > > > > > > > > trapped in these is called /Jeeva/, and one freed

from

> them

> > > > is

> > > > > > > > called

> > > > > > > > > /Mukta./

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > */Siva Purana, Vishvesvara Samhita,4/*

> > > > > > > > > /Prakriti /comprises of buddhi, ahamkara,

gunaatmaka and

> > > > > > > > panchatanmatra.

> > > > > > > > > All these combined are called Prakriti.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > */Siva Purana, Vishvesvara Samhita,5/*

> > > > > > > > > These eight bondages are the body. The activities

of this

> > > > body

> > > > > > are

> > > > > > > > > called the /karmas/.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Later in sloka 8 Suta explains that due to karmas

the soul

> > > > is

> > > > > > bound

> > > > > > > > by

> > > > > > > > > these eight bondages. So these are indeed the

bondages and

> > > > they

> > > > > > are

> > > > > > > > > created due to Karma. The issue being that the

bondages

> > > > > > themselves

> > > > > > > > can

> > > > > > > > > lead one to recreate the same karma again and

again, just

> > > > as one

> > > > > > > > desire

> > > > > > > > > leads to a thousand more.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > /You wrote:

> > > > > > > > > ParamAtma is a collective of all the atmas. Concept

of

> Chara

> > > > > > > > > karakas is only indicative of the separate identity

> > > > (Ahamkara)

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > soul in the realm of relationships - led by the AK

as

> a king

> > > > > > leads a

> > > > > > > > > kingdom. So AK has the job of understanding the

realm of

> > > > > > > > > relationships with other atmas and thereby help the

> > > > attainment

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > individuals' understanding of ParamAtma./

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Yes, once Sun atmakaraka's understand this within

> > > > themselves,

> > > > > > they

> > > > > > > > > should teach it to others.

> > > > > > > > > Looking forward to your reply.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Yours sincerely,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > --

> > > > > > > > > Visti Larsen - SJC Guru

> > > > > > > > > Jaimini SJC - Denmark

> > > > > > > > > email: visti@ <visti@>

> > > > > > > > > For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit:

http://

> > > > > > > > srigaruda.com

> > > > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>

> > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>

> > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>

> > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>>>

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > yeeahoo_99 wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > || Om TAT SAT ||

> > > > > > > > > > Dear Visti,

> > > > > > > > > > Thanks for a good mail.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Surely Surya is not Ahamkara, thats like saying

that

> > > > Rahu is

> > > > > > > > Durga.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > How are you so sure about it? The question still

remains

> > > > > > > > unanswered

> > > > > > > > > > i.e. how do you prove that Surya represents

Ahamkara?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > The graha which 'represents' the bondage of

> ahamkara is

> > > > > > Surya.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > This brings up another question: i.e. if there is

a

> > > > bondage of

> > > > > > > > > > Ahamkara at all?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Ahamkar is referred in Gita chapter 3, verse 27 as

> > > > follows:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > " All activities are being enacted by the senses

of the

> > > > > > (Prakriti)

> > > > > > > > > > material nature without exception; but the

unrealized,

> > > > > > deluded by

> > > > > > > > > > (AhamKara) false identification of being the

body, thus

> > > > > > thinks:

> > > > > > > > " I am

> > > > > > > > > > the doer "

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Ahamkara (surya), Manas (chandra), Prakriti

(rahu),

> > > > > > > > Akasha(guru),

> > > > > > > > > > > Agni(mangala), Jala (shukra), Vayu (shani) and

Prithvi

> > > > > > (budha)

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > So lets begin with Eightfold-Prakriti of Krishna,

your

> > > > > > reference

> > > > > > > > > > point itself is incorrect. Gita Chapter 7 sloka 4

> states:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > " Earth, water, fire, air, ether, Manah, Buddhi,

and

> > > > Ahamkara;

> > > > > > thus

> > > > > > > > > > these are the eightfold divisions of my Prakriti. "

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Neither the five tattwas, Buddhi nor Manah can be

> > > > assigned to

> > > > > > Rahu

> > > > > > > > > > and thus Ahamkara is the only thing that can

> logically be

> > > > > > > > assigned to

> > > > > > > > > > Rahu. So the correct version of eightfold

representation

> > > > of

> > > > > > > > Prakriti

> > > > > > > > > > is:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Buddhi (surya), Manah (chandra), Ahamkara (rahu),

> > > > > > Akasha(guru),

> > > > > > > > > > Agni(mangala), Jala (shukra), Vayu (shani) and

Prithvi

> > > > (budha)

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Now, to overcome these eight bondages, there

are EIGHT

> > > > ways

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > look

> > > > > > > > > > > at God through which we can be freed. For the

Ahamkara

> > > > we

> > > > > > must

> > > > > > > > > > > look at God as Paramatman.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > There is ONLY ONE bondage and not Eight of them.

> Ahamkara

> > > > > > doesn't

> > > > > > > > > > cause bondage of atma as you have written, but

Karma

> alone

> > > > > > causes

> > > > > > > > > > bondage of atma, and is not a part of eightfold-

prakriti

> > > > > > referred

> > > > > > > > > > above. Refer Gita Chapter 2 verse 39 as follows:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > " O Arjuna! What has been declared to you this

spiritual

> > > > > > > > intelligence

> > > > > > > > > > (Buddhih) according to the Samkhya (the path of

> > > > knowledge).

> > > > > > Now

> > > > > > > > > > listen to the teaching of Yoga (the path of

selfless

> > > > action

> > > > > > > > combined

> > > > > > > > > > with devotion) by practising which the bondage of

> Karma is

> > > > > > > > overcome. "

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Also, Chapter 3 verse 9 verifies that Karma causes

> > > > bondage:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > " O son of Kunti! In this world all actions,

unless they

> > > > are

> > > > > > done

> > > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > > an offering to God (or as Yajna), become causes of

> > > > bondage.

> > > > > > > > > > Therefore, work for the sake of God without

personal

> > > > > > attachments. "

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Chapter 3 verse 31 cross-verfies it as follows:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > " Whoever follow this teaching of mine, with their

minds

> > > > full

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > faith

> > > > > > > > > > and free from disparagement, they also are

released from

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > bondage

> > > > > > > > > > of reactions from Actions (Karma). "

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > That liberation is attained by knowing the correct

> way of

> > > > > > acting

> > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > given in Chapter 4 verse 16:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > " What is (karma) action and what is (akarma) 'non-

> > > > action', is

> > > > > > a

> > > > > > > > > > subject regarding which even the wise are

perplexed. I

> > > > shall

> > > > > > > > > > therefore speak to you about (Karma)work, by

knowing

> which

> > > > > > one is

> > > > > > > > > > liberated from evil (or the life of bondage in

Samsara) "

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > The reason for liberation is written as Chapter 5

> verse 3:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > " It should be known, O mighty-armed one! That one

who

> > > > neither

> > > > > > > > > > disdains nor desires fruits of actions, should be

known

> > > > as one

> > > > > > > > > > established in renunciation. Certainly, that

person

> being

> > > > free

> > > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > all dualities is easily liberated from bondage. "

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > For the Ahamkara we must look at God as

Paramatman.

> > > > This is

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > remedy itself. And the specific form of Shiva

> > > > > > > > > > > who will help us realize this is Ishana for the

Sun.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Please understand that Ahamkara is not a disease

that we

> > > > look

> > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > > remedies to it. It is the eightfold prakriti of

Krishna.

> > > > > > > > Otherwise,

> > > > > > > > > > mind, buddhi, and pancha-tattwas will also need

to be

> > > > > > remedied.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > And among those born with Surya as atmakaraka

we have

> > > > > > grades of

> > > > > > > > > > > those being fully engrossed in ahamkara vs.

having

> > > > complete

> > > > > > > > control

> > > > > > > > > > > of ahamkara.

> > > > > > > > > > I am not sure what you mean by complete control of

> > > > Ahamkara,

> > > > > > > > > > because one who has complete control of his manas

> and has

> > > > > > buddhi

> > > > > > > > > > devoted to Krishna - realizes his divine nature of

> > > > > > > > " AhamBrahmaAsmi "

> > > > > > > > > > and gets freed from the bondage of Karma.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Divine souls like Vivekananda, Ramakrishna

> > > > > > > > > > > Paramahamsa and Sri Krishna being at one end of

the

> > > > scale.

> > > > > > With

> > > > > > > > > > > fellows like Donald Trump, Adolph Hitler

(exalted

> surya

> > > > > > yuti AK)

> > > > > > > > > > >and others at the other end of the scale.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Liberation is caused by the development of

> divine/demoniac

> > > > > > nature,

> > > > > > > > > > Chapter 16 Verse 5:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > " The divine nature is considered the cause of

liberation

> > > > and

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > demoniac nature the cause of bondage. Grieve not,

O

> son of

> > > > > > Pandu!

> > > > > > > > You

> > > > > > > > > > are born of the divine nature. "

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > So please don't make the equation that everyone

with

> > > > Surya

> > > > > > > > > > > atmakaraka is Paramatman. That would be quite

> delusional

> > > > > > > > indeed...

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Even as paramatman is Omnipresent, it is not

possible to

> > > > say

> > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > any mortal being is apart from paramatman,

whether it be

> > > > > > Surya AK

> > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > a specific context. In any case, no such equation

about

> > > > > > > > > > Atmakaraka and Paramatma has been made by me.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > The only question asked is about how " Surya "

represents

> > > > > > Ahamkara,

> > > > > > > > > > devoid of any Chara Karaka Status whatsoever. You

should

> > > > have

> > > > > > > > read my

> > > > > > > > > > mail more thoroughly to have not missed the point

> that was

> > > > > > being

> > > > > > > > made.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > ParamAtma is a collective of all the atmas.

Concept of

> > > > Chara

> > > > > > > > > > karakas is only indicative of the separate

identity

> > > > > > (Ahamkara) of

> > > > > > > > > > soul in the realm of relationships - led by the

AK as a

> > > > king

> > > > > > > > leads a

> > > > > > > > > > kingdom. So AK has the job of understanding the

realm of

> > > > > > > > > > relationships with other atmas and thereby help

the

> > > > > > attainment of

> > > > > > > > > > individuals' understanding of ParamAtma.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Finally, about the points you made:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > As proved earlier, Surya as representing Buddhi

of the

> > > > eight-

> > > > > > fold

> > > > > > > > > > Prakriti of Krishna - is referred to as ParamAtma

in a

> > > > chart

> > > > > > by

> > > > > > > > > > Jyotish Texts, whatever be the Chara AtmaKaraka.

That

> > > > Buddhi/

> > > > > > > > > > intelligence in creatures is Krishna is verified

by Gita

> > > > > > Chapter

> > > > > > > > 10,

> > > > > > > > > > sloka 22:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > " Of the Vedas, I am the Sama Veda; among the

Devas, I am

> > > > > > Indra; of

> > > > > > > > > > the senses, I am the mind; and in living beings,

I am

> > > > > > > > intelligence. "

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > See, the devatas reside in svarga loka and this

> > > > corresponds

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > nakshatras.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Jyotish tells that constellations are overlorded

by

> > > > luminary

> > > > > > Moon

> > > > > > > > > > and Moon derives its luminosity from Sun.

Therefore,

> as a

> > > > > > > > consequence

> > > > > > > > > > the concept of devatas associated with the swarga

of

> > > > > > > > constellations

> > > > > > > > > > is derived from the luminosity of the radiant Sun

> and any

> > > > > > > > spiritual

> > > > > > > > > > blessings obtained by worshipping devatas of

Swarga loka

> > > > are

> > > > > > > > easily

> > > > > > > > > > obtained by worshipping Sun as Paramatma.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Using that equation we could say that Aditya,

> Shiva and

> > > > > > Agni are

> > > > > > > > > > > all Surya... Taking a line from your mail we are

> > > > actually

> > > > > > saying

> > > > > > > > > > > that Vishnu being an aditya is Surya?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Yes. Surya as ParamAtma is only ONE and manifests

as

> > > > > > multitude of

> > > > > > > > > > Aditya, Shiva and Agni, depending upon the

concept you

> > > > see him

> > > > > > > > > > aligned with, i.e. signs, or nakshatra or any

other

> > > > divisions

> > > > > > > > > > respectively.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Obviously both of us know better than that.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Now we do.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > > > > > nitish

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > sohamsa

> > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>,

> > > > > > > > > > Visti Larsen <visti@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > ??? ??? ??????

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Dear Nitish, Namaskar

> > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for your reply.

> > > > > > > > > > > Surely Surya is not Ahamkara, thats like saying

that

> > > > Rahu is

> > > > > > > > Durga.

> > > > > > > > > > > Using that equation we could say that Aditya,

> Shiva and

> > > > > > Agni are

> > > > > > > > > > all

> > > > > > > > > > > Surya... Taking a line from your mail we are

actually

> > > > saying

> > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > Vishnu

> > > > > > > > > > > being an aditya is Surya? Obviously both of us

know

> > > > better

> > > > > > than

> > > > > > > > > > that.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > See, the devatas reside in svarga loka and this

> > > > corresponds

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > nakshatras. The grahas through their transit of

the

> > > > > > nakshatras

> > > > > > > > are

> > > > > > > > > > > actually eclipsing them and thus certain forms

of

> > > > devatas

> > > > > > come

> > > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > > > indicating by 1) the graha eclipsing. 2) the

nakshatra

> > > > it

> > > > > > > > eclipses.

> > > > > > > > > > > Since nakshatras are the basis of the rasi

chart,

> we can

> > > > > > find

> > > > > > > > based

> > > > > > > > > > on

> > > > > > > > > > > the state of a graha the actual devata

represented by

> > > > it.

> > > > > > But

> > > > > > > > its

> > > > > > > > > > only a

> > > > > > > > > > > representation as the Grahas themselves are not

> devatas.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > The graha which 'represents' the bondage of

> ahamkara is

> > > > > > Surya,

> > > > > > > > just

> > > > > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > > > the graha representing the bondage of the mind

is

> Moon.

> > > > And

> > > > > > > > among

> > > > > > > > > > those

> > > > > > > > > > > born with Surya as atmakaraka we have grades of

those

> > > > being

> > > > > > > > fully

> > > > > > > > > > > engrossed in ahamkara vs. having complete

control of

> > > > > > ahamkara.

> > > > > > > > > > Divine

> > > > > > > > > > > souls like Vivekananda, Ramakrishna Paramahamsa

> and Sri

> > > > > > Krishna

> > > > > > > > > > being at

> > > > > > > > > > > one end of the scale. With fellows like Donald

Trump,

> > > > Adolph

> > > > > > > > Hitler

> > > > > > > > > > > (exalted surya yuti AK) and others at the other

end of

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > scale.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Now, to overcome these eight bondages, there

are EIGHT

> > > > ways

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > look

> > > > > > > > > > at

> > > > > > > > > > > God through which we can be freed. For the

Ahamkara we

> > > > must

> > > > > > > > look at

> > > > > > > > > > God

> > > > > > > > > > > as Paramatman. This is the remedy itself. And

the

> > > > specific

> > > > > > form

> > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > Shiva

> > > > > > > > > > > who will help us realize this is Ishana for the

Sun.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > So please don't make the equation that everyone

with

> > > > Surya

> > > > > > > > > > atmakaraka is

> > > > > > > > > > > Paramatman. That would be quite delusional

indeed...

> > > > Infact

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > concept

> > > > > > > > > > > of Paramatma is the means to which the Surya

> atmakaraka

> > > > > > will be

> > > > > > > > > > freed of

> > > > > > > > > > > his/her ahamkara.

> > > > > > > > > > > Looking forward to your reply.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Yours sincerely,

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > --

> > > > > > > > > > > Visti Larsen - SJC Guru

> > > > > > > > > > > Jaimini SJC - Denmark

> > > > > > > > > > > email: visti@ <visti@>

> > > > > > > > > > > For consultations, free mp3's and articles

visit:

> http:/

> > > > /

> > > > > > > > > > srigaruda.com

> > > > > > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>

> > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>

> > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>

> > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>>

> > > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>

> > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>> <http://

> > > > srigaruda.com

> > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > yeeahoo_99 wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > || OM TAT SAT||

> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Visti,

> > > > > > > > > > > > How do you prove that Ahamkara is represented

by

> > > > Surya ?

> > > > > > > > Either

> > > > > > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > > > > > mean to say that Lord Krishna represents

Ahamkara

> > > > going by

> > > > > > > > Gita

> > > > > > > > > > > > Chapter 10 verse 21:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > " Of the tweleve adityas I am vishnu, of all

> > > > luminaries the

> > > > > > > > radiant

> > > > > > > > > > > > Sun , of the seven Maruts I am marichi, and

of the

> > > > > > > > constellations

> > > > > > > > > > I am

> > > > > > > > > > > > the Moon. "

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Are you saying that Sura/Surya group of

planets are

> > > > lead

> > > > > > by

> > > > > > > > Surya

> > > > > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > > > > Ahamkara?

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Are you saying that the Vedas adoring Surya

Narayan

> > > > as a

> > > > > > > > witness

> > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > all actions (Sakshi) is an individuality

creating

> > > > Ahamkara

> > > > > > > > > > Principle

> > > > > > > > > > > > and not an impersonal transcendental

intelligence

> > > > > > principle?

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Please explain why Surya as Ahamkara should be

> > > > referred

> > > > > > to as

> > > > > > > > > > > > Paramatma, the soul of all and `Jagadaikha

> > > > chakshusay',

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > eye

> > > > > > > > > > of the

> > > > > > > > > > > > three worlds?

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > nitish

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa

> > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>,

> > > > > > > > > > > > Visti Larsen <visti@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > ??? ??? ??????

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear List, Namaskar

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Why hasn't anyone started talking about the

eight

> > > > > > bondages

> > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > the atma?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Ahamkara (surya), Manas (chandra), Prakriti

> (rahu),

> > > > > > Akasha

> > > > > > > > > > (guru), Agni

> > > > > > > > > > > > > (mangala), Jala (shukra), Vayu (shani) and

Prithvi

> > > > > > (budha).

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > And how these eight bondages map into the

eight

> > > > spokes

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > kala

> > > > > > > > > > > > > chakra, which are simultaneously the eight

spokes

> > > > of the

> > > > > > > > > > anahata chakra.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Really any talk on the atma and its EIGHT

> karakas is

> > > > > > futile

> > > > > > > > > > without any

> > > > > > > > > > > > > of this.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Yours sincerely,

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > --

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Visti Larsen - SJC Guru

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Jaimini SJC - Denmark

> > > > > > > > > > > > > email: visti@ <visti@>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > For consultations, free mp3's and articles

visit:

> > > > > > > > > > > > http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>

> > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>

> > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>

> > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>>

> > > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>

> > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>> <http://

> > > > srigaruda.com

> > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>>> <http://

> > > > > > > > srigaruda.com

> > > > > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>

> > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>

> > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>

> > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com

<http://srigaruda.com>

> > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>

> > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>

> > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>>

> > > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>

> > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>> <http://

> > > > srigaruda.com

> > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>

> > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>

> > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>

> > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>> <http://

> > > > > > srigaruda.com

> > > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>

> > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Promila Chitkara wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello Sharat,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you not think that " serving others "

comes

> > > > naturally

> > > > > > > > only

> > > > > > > > > > to a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > handful people? There maybe people who

want to

> > > > serve

> > > > > > their

> > > > > > > > > > families;

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > however, that is not selfless service in

the

> true

> > > > > > sense of

> > > > > > > > > > the term.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because we know very well that in

happiness and

> > > > > > > > contentment

> > > > > > > > > > of our

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > families lies our happiness and growth!

So it's

> > > > purely

> > > > > > > > > > selfish.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > P

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sharat <gidoc@>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa

> > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thursday, August 30, 2007 2:23:04 AM

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Re: Re: Jupiter as AK

(to

> > > > Tijanaji,

> > > > > > > > Nitish

> > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > v_reality)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ||Namah Shivaya||

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sundeep,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Good observations, I was following this

> thread as

> > > > > > well but

> > > > > > > > > > really

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > found the ' ego ' bit coming in too

quickly.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > English words cant describe so well '

ahankar '

> > > > and '

> > > > > > > > aham'

> > > > > > > > > > which are

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > different and I agree that one cannot see

this

> > > > only in

> > > > > > > > Sun AK.

> > > > > > > > > > > > However

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > as you say, Sun AK needs to learn to serve

> others

> > > > as

> > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > does

> > > > > > > > > > not come

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > naturally to them. And you cant take '

I ' away

> > > > from

> > > > > > them

> > > > > > > > so

> > > > > > > > > > easily

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > but perhaps if one wants to merge with

> Paramatma,

> > > > then

> > > > > > > > the '

> > > > > > > > > > I '

> > > > > > > > > > > > will

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > have to merge in to ' Him '.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sharat

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > -

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** vedicastrostudent

> > > > <vedicastrostudent@>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > *To:* sohamsa@ .com

> > > > > > > > > > <sohamsa

> > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 29, 2007 8:56 PM

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Subject:* Re: Jupiter as AK (to

> > > > Tijanaji,

> > > > > > > > Nitish

> > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > v_reality)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Tijanaji and Nitish,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have been reading your exchange with

interest

> > > > in the

> > > > > > > > hope of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > learning something new, but I find myself

> > > > disagreeing

> > > > > > > > subtly

> > > > > > > > > > > > in the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > essence of what you say. In fact, deep

down

> in the

> > > > > > > > exchange I

> > > > > > > > > > find

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > this statement made by " v_reality " which

makes a

> > > > lot

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > sense

> > > > > > > > > > > > to me:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Can this also be understood at a

different

> level

> > > > as

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > effacement

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > of 'self' in a spiritual sense? " .

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here is my take - I have none of the

scriptural

> > > > > > knowledge

> > > > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > > > both

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > have, only I have seen several Sun AK

people: I

> > > > dont

> > > > > > > > think it

> > > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > fair to say that Sun AK people are

> egotistic. See,

> > > > > > English

> > > > > > > > > > > > also has

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > a lot of words which have subtly different

> > > > meanings,

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > right

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > one has to be used. An egotistic person is

> one who

> > > > > > has a

> > > > > > > > > > > > exaggerated

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > sense of self-importance. Almost everyone

in

> this

> > > > > > world

> > > > > > > > has

> > > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > (and you are fooling yourself if you deny

> it), it

> > > > is

> > > > > > plain

> > > > > > > > > > > > wrong to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > observe a person have Sun AK and

simultaneously

> > > > > > observe

> > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > > he also

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > has an exaggerated sense of self

importance and

> > > > say

> > > > > > " yes,

> > > > > > > > > > that is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > what the Sun AK does to him " . I can cite

> hundreds

> > > > of

> > > > > > > > people I

> > > > > > > > > > know

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > who are very self important and DONT have

> Sun AK,

> > > > and

> > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > only

> > > > > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > may not even have a strong Sun in their

chart.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I personally think the only statement that

> can be

> > > > > > observed

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > repeatedly with Sun AK people is that

they are

> > > > > > egocentric

> > > > > > > > i.e.

> > > > > > > > > > > > their

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > view of the world is based on the

individual

> > > > rather

> > > > > > than

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > society. They may or may not be

egotistical

> (i.e.

> > > > > > > > > > > > egocentricity does

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > not imply self importance) - the AK

simply makes

> > > > them

> > > > > > go

> > > > > > > > > > through

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > experiences in life such that their core

self is

> > > > > > tested.

> > > > > > > > How

> > > > > > > > > > they

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > respond to it depends probably on lots of

other

> > > > > > > > astrological

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > factors. The only statement I can safely

make,

> > > > based

> > > > > > on

> > > > > > > > pure

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > experience, is that Sun AK people are

guided to

> > > > > > divinity

> > > > > > > > > > through

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > experiences of the self, consequently

their view

> > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > egocentric.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I know one Sun AK woman (dont know if I

can

> share

> > > > her

> > > > > > > > data)

> > > > > > > > > > > > who was

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > molested (by her own professor) and

denied a

> > > > higher

> > > > > > degree

> > > > > > > > > > > > that she

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > worked hard for, then get married and then

> > > > divorced,

> > > > > > then

> > > > > > > > > > have her

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > mom die of cancer in a rather painful

way, then

> > > > have

> > > > > > her

> > > > > > > > > > > > brother get

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > divorced in a messy lawsuit (and then

leave her

> > > > too),

> > > > > > then

> > > > > > > > > > > > (she) get

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > married again and her husband develop

terminal

> > > > cancer

> > > > > > very

> > > > > > > > > > soon

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > afterward. Net result: she cant seem to

find a

> > > > strong

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > consistent

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > support outside of herself - she has

become self

> > > > > > reliant

> > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > only

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > finds consistent happiness in

meditation/reiki.

> > > > She is

> > > > > > > > > > probably

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > egotistical in some degree too, but not

in any

> > > > > > outstanding

> > > > > > > > > > way at

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > all, and probably much less than all the

people

> > > > around

> > > > > > > > her..

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Consequently, I really dispute the fact

that Sun

> > > > AK

> > > > > > people

> > > > > > > > > > must

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > learn to " reduce their ego " . That is

simply a

> > > > general

> > > > > > > > lesson

> > > > > > > > > > > > for all

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > of mankind. Sun AK people's AK will guide

them

> > > > towards

> > > > > > > > > > divinity

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > through experiences that make them focus

on

> > > > > > themselves and

> > > > > > > > > > search

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > for the truth: now that's the statement I

find

> > > > much

> > > > > > more

> > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > point.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Comments?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sundeep

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>, nix

nixen

> > > > > > <nix_nixen@

> > > > > > > > ..>

> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Nitish,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Only from one simple statement of

yours " It is

> > > > not

> > > > > > > > always

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > possible for me... " i read that your AK

must be

> > > > > > nothing

> > > > > > > > less

> > > > > > > > > > than

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun. Am i right? If yes, then i think i`m

on the

> > > > right

> > > > > > > > way of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > finding answers on my queries.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Warm regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tijana

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yeeahoo_99 <nitish.arya@ ...> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Tijana,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raja Yoga is the yoga of soul with

paramatma -

> > > > deep/

> > > > > > > > shallow,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > material/spiritual - all kind of things

have a

> > > > basis

> > > > > > > > only in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > paramatma. Thus, even Raja-bhanga yoga

has a

> > > > basis

> > > > > > i.e.

> > > > > > > > > > > > separation

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > soul from paramatma (which is illusory

only

> > > > though)

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > hence

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > material/spiritual loss depending on the

> kind of

> > > > > > karma

> > > > > > > > > > involved.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As the lord of a sign, a planet rules a

12th

> > > > part

> > > > > > of the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > consciousness, relatively . Thus, in

> part, it

> > > > > > becomes

> > > > > > > > its

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > responsibility to guide the affairs of

that

> > > > sign/

> > > > > > house

> > > > > > > > > > towards

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > fulfillment. You may explore it further.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is not always possible for me to

answer to

> > > > your

> > > > > > > > specific

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > queries.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hopefully, in time, you will discover

the

> truth

> > > > of

> > > > > > your

> > > > > > > > > > queries.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > best regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nitish

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>,

> > > > " tijanadamjanovic "

> > > > > > > > > > > > <nix_nixen@>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Nitish,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, all must serve. The questions

raised in

> > > > these

> > > > > > > > > > discussions

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > on Atma

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karakas were on the specific way of

serving.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If we say that Sun AK must learn

> principles of

> > > > > > artha

> > > > > > > > > > > > shastra to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > serve,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the same stands for Ma and Ju AK? How

to

> > > > > > > > differentiate? I

> > > > > > > > > > > > assume

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > are taking karakatvas of the houses

into

> > > > account

> > > > > > also

> > > > > > > > > > > > (2nd, 6th,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th)?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Sun/Raja gets service on the

throne, but

> > > > > > regarding

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > spirituality

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and Atma this is related to real Raja

yoga

> > > > whose

> > > > > > > > deepest

> > > > > > > > > > > > meaning

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > inseparable from 10th house of

indriyas

> (refer

> > > > > > > > > > Vivekananda) .

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Only in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that sense we can talk of Janaka or

the

> > > > perfect

> > > > > > King.

> > > > > > > > What

> > > > > > > > > > > > artha

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > shastra principles you had in mind?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Warm regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tijana

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>,

> > > > > > > > > > " yeeahoo_99 " <nitish.arya@ >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > || Om TAT SAT ||

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Tijana,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To fulfill ones own dharma is

what you

> > > > > > probably

> > > > > > > > had in

> > > > > > > > > > > > mind

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mentioning Gita in this context.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Context that was intended is Gita

Chapter

> > > > > > 3,sloka

> > > > > > > > 22.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All must work if the lord of the

> cosmos has

> > > > > > chosen

> > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > work.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thus,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is nothing specific that only

SUN AK

> > > > has

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > " serve " , all

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > AKs

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " serve " .

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But, are you implying that Sun AK

> gives a

> > > > > > person

> > > > > > > > akin

> > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Janaka?!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, Sun AK gives a person akin to

> Janaka -

> > > > > > > > jivanmukta -

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > provided

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > enough effort has been put in.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you determing dharma based on

this?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, Sun AK need not be 9th lord.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Will you advise Sun AK people to

take

> > > > > > > > Dhartharastra

> > > > > > > > > > as an

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > example!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The attitude of service is seen

from 6th

> > > > house.

> > > > > > Leo

> > > > > > > > > > being a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > dharma

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > trikona sign fulfills its purpose of

> service

> > > > > > through

> > > > > > > > > > 10th

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > house of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Artha, which is 6th from it. So a

Sun AK

> > > > should

> > > > > > > > learn

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > principles of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > artha shastra to serve.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, again, what Raja will hardly

ever do

> > > > is

> > > > > > > > serving.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All souls have to " Serve " only as

there is

> > > > > > nothing

> > > > > > > > else

> > > > > > > > > > > > to be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > done

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in the three worlds because Krishna

has

> > > > already

> > > > > > > > achieved

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > everything

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that is there to achieve in the

three

> > > > > > worlds(refer

> > > > > > > > > > Gita).

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those who

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > do not serve, are reborn to learn to

> serve,

> > > > > > > > whatever be

> > > > > > > > > > > > their

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > AK.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda` s Dharm bhava

> lord was

> > > > Sun

> > > > > > AK

> > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > > lagna in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dhanus

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (extraordinary combination for

unselfish

> > > > > > giving by

> > > > > > > > > > > > itself).

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But do you think it`s a

coincidence that

> > > > His

> > > > > > > > Master

> > > > > > > > > > had

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > exalted

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn in 9th

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > bhava and Rahu AK? What do you

> think, why

> > > > even

> > > > > > > > Swami

> > > > > > > > > > > > needed

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > these?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One is not re-born after exhausting

his

> > > > karma/

> > > > > > > > desires.

> > > > > > > > > > Thus,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vivekananda (Rahu PiK) came here to

> exhaust

> > > > his

> > > > > > > > > > remaining

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > karma/

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > desires with Ramakrishna (Rahu AK).

There

> > > > is no

> > > > > > more

> > > > > > > > > > > > substance

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this than a past-life karmic

> relationship of

> > > > > > the two

> > > > > > > > > > which

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > continued

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in this birth also.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NITISH

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>,

> > > > > > " tijana " <nix_nixen@>

> > > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Nitish,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your elaboration would be even

more

> > > > brilliant

> > > > > > if

> > > > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > > > had

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > just answer

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my question.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To fulfill ones own dharma is

what you

> > > > > > probably

> > > > > > > > had in

> > > > > > > > > > > > mind

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mentioning

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gita in this context. But, are you

> > > > implying

> > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > Sun

> > > > > > > > > > AK

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > gives a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > person akin to Janaka?! Are you

> determing

> > > > > > dharma

> > > > > > > > > > based on

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > this? Will

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you advise Sun AK people to take

> > > > > > Dhartharastra as

> > > > > > > > an

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > example!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, again, what Raja will hardly

ever do

> > > > is

> > > > > > > > serving.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda` s Dharm bhava

> lord was

> > > > Sun

> > > > > > AK

> > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > > lagna in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dhanus

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (extraordinary combination for

unselfish

> > > > > > giving by

> > > > > > > > > > > > itself).

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > But do

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > think it`s a coincidence that His

Master

> > > > had

> > > > > > > > exalted

> > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > in 9th

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > bhava and Rahu AK? What do you

> think, why

> > > > even

> > > > > > > > Swami

> > > > > > > > > > > > needed

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > these?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Warm regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tijana

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>,

> > > > > > > > > > " yeeahoo_99 " <nitish.arya@ >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > || Om Tat Sat ||

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Tijana,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What is the thing that Raja

will

> > > > hardly

> > > > > > ever

> > > > > > > > do?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read up Gita, arthashastra and

ancient

> > > > texts

> > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > show

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > what

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > all a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raja has to do to ensure that

his

> > > > subjects

> > > > > > are

> > > > > > > > > > protected

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > progress

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > on the upward evolutionary path.

> Look at

> > > > > > > > krishna,

> > > > > > > > > > Janaka

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ChandraGupta Maurya and you will

> > > > understand

> > > > > > > > whatever

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > that " hardly

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ever do " equates to.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Otherwise, going by your

statement, AK

> > > > > > wouldn't

> > > > > > > > do

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > anything

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > being

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the king of the horoscope and

the rest

> > > > of

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > karakas (BK,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > PiK,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Puk,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GK) i.e. his subjects will

follow the

> > > > suit!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, the mantra is " Shiva

jnane

> > > > Jiva

> > > > > > > > > > Seva " (serving

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > every

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > being as the full manifestation

of

> God)

> > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > > Narendranath

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > received

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from his Master Ramakrishna who

> had Sun

> > > > in

> > > > > > > > Aquarius.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Being Sun AK, Vivekananda had

> developed

> > > > > > peculiar

> > > > > > > > > > > > sharpness

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > perception and assimilation that

> > > > empowered

> > > > > > him

> > > > > > > > with

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > unusual power

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pick up 'the gems' from the

talks

> of his

> > > > > > Master.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With Sun in Sagittarius, he

could, as

> > > > > > compared

> > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > others,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > easily

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'see' the deep meaning in the

words of

> > > > Sri

> > > > > > > > > > Ramakrishna,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > even

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > though

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the Master told them in simple

> language

> > > > (Aq

> > > > > > > > Sun),

> > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > never as

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > preaching.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With its dispositor Jupiter in

Libra,

> > > > > > gradually

> > > > > > > > > > Swami

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vivekananda

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > started assimilating tips and

hints on

> > > > > > practical

> > > > > > > > > > Vedanta

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > could

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > benefit individual and

collective life

> > > > in

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > society.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " ...For spiritual persons Sun

as AK

> > > > > > should be

> > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter`s

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > signs

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (Shiva jnane...), otherwise

it`s

> very

> > > > hard

> > > > > > > > > > task... "

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Putting up statements like you

have

> > > > done is

> > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > > > > wise. Sri

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yukteswar

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Giri, has Sun AK placed in Aries

> and had

> > > > > > > > attained

> > > > > > > > > > > > highest

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > level

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > spirituality. Even if Sun AK is

placed

> > > > in

> > > > > > > > Libra, it

> > > > > > > > > > > > could

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > be the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > most

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > spiritual person.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AK shows the spiritual power of

a sign

> > > > over

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > rest of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > signs/

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets in the chart and this

> spiritual

> > > > > > power

> > > > > > > > > > manifests

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > through

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dispositor of AK and its sign

> placement.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NITISH

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>,

> > > > > > " tijana " <nix_nixen@>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Su,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun is the Self. Its

qualities are

> > > > those

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > Raja

> > > > > > > > > > > > (karaka

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > first house, lord of the 5th,

dig

> > > > bala in

> > > > > > > > 10th).

> > > > > > > > > > > > What is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thing

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that Raja will hardly ever

do? The

> > > > lesson

> > > > > > > > that has

> > > > > > > > > > > > to be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > learnt

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > by

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun AK is serving, in the

highest

> > > > sence it

> > > > > > > > gives

> > > > > > > > > > > > " Shiva

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > jnane

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shiva

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > seva " (service of man as God)-

the

> > > > divine

> > > > > > > > lesson

> > > > > > > > > > > > given to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > us by

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vivekananda (Sun AK). For

spiritual

> > > > > > persons

> > > > > > > > Sun

> > > > > > > > > > as AK

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > should be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter`s signs (Shiva

jnane...),

> > > > > > otherwise

> > > > > > > > it`s

> > > > > > > > > > very

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > hard task.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Warm regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tijana

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

sohamsa@ .com

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>, " v

> > > > > > > > reality " <reality_v@>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Bojan-ji

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for your reply.

Much

> > > > > > appreciated.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If I may ask another query

re Sun

> > > > AK.

> > > > > > The

> > > > > > > > lesson

> > > > > > > > > > > > to be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > learnt

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun AK,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is the reduction of ego.

Can this

> > > > also

> > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > understood

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > at a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > different level

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as the effacement of 'self'

in a

> > > > > > spiritual

> > > > > > > > > > sense?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Su

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Bojan Vidakovic

<janbovid@>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

sohamsa@

> .com

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >To:

sohamsa@ .com

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Re:

Jupiter as

> > > > AK

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Wed, 22 Aug 2007

08:33:22 -

> > > > 0700

> > > > > > (PDT)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >HARE RAMA KRISHNA

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Dear Su

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I would add that with Gu AK

> person

> > > > > > have to

> > > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > very

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > humble to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > all

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > spiritual

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >techers and natives, like

> priests,

> > > > > > gurus,

> > > > > > > > > > teachers.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > With Ma

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AK

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > person must

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >practise Ahumsa

(nonviolence) ,

> > > > with

> > > > > > Ch the

> > > > > > > > > > > > native is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > always

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > very

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > caring,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >and gives emotions but the

> problem

> > > > is

> > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > they

> > > > > > > > > > > > never

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > get

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > enough

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >themselves from other

people. The

> > > > > > person

> > > > > > > > must

> > > > > > > > > > learn

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > lessons

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >people represented with

AK. Ch /

> > > > > > mother,

> > > > > > > > Sy /

> > > > > > > > > > > > father

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > everything those

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >grahas represent.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Take few examples of

people you

> > > > know

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > see

> > > > > > > > > > it in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > praxix.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wishes,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Bojan

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Hari Om Tat Sat

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Rafal Gendarz

<starsuponme@ >

> > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hraum namah adityaya

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Su,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Person should use a lot

of glass

> > > > and

> > > > > > sing/

> > > > > > > > hum

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > melodies.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rafal Gendarz

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > email: rafal@

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jyotish pages:

www.rohinaa. com

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > v reality napisaÅ,(a):

Dear

> > > > Rafalji/

> > > > > > > > Members

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is an interesting

> discussion.

> > > > > > Could

> > > > > > > > we

> > > > > > > > > > > > discuss

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > other

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AKs

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > too. I read

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in an article that

natives with

> > > > Moon

> > > > > > as AK

> > > > > > > > > > need to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > learn

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > more

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >caring

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and loving to others. But

I know

> > > > of a

> > > > > > > > chart

> > > > > > > > > > where

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > native

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > already

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >by

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nature very caring,

loving and

> > > > > > concerned

> > > > > > > > about

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > others

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > since

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > young. So

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >what

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is the lesson to be

learnt?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Su

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Rafal Gendarz

> <starsuponme@

> > > > > > wp.pl>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

sohamsa@

> > > > .com

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >To:

sohamsa@ .com

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Re:

Jupiter

> > > > as AK

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Wed, 22 Aug 2007

10:24:14

> > > > +0200

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *hraum namah adityaya*

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Dear LN Kumar,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >With Ju AK person should

> learn to

> > > > > > respect

> > > > > > > > > > others

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > knowledge

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >tradition,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >should be ready to learn

from

> > > > others.

> > > > > > > > When Ju

> > > > > > > > > > > > is in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kendra to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AK or is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >AK

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >himself then native

thinks that

> > > > he

> > > > > > knows

> > > > > > > > > > > > everything

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > now

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can share

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >His knowledge with

everybody.

> > > > Good

> > > > > > > > teachers

> > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > course

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > comes

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >AK-Jupiter- Natives, as

this

> > > > graha

> > > > > > will

> > > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > naturally in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karakamsa.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >With MA AK person should

> learn to

> > > > > > > > catalyze

> > > > > > > > > > > > energies

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > through

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ZEN, TAI-CHI

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >or

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >other techniques, while

with JU

> > > > AK

> > > > > > person

> > > > > > > > > > should

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > learn to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > more humble

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >regarding knowledge. Of

course

> > > > person

> > > > > > > > can be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > focused on

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter-

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karakas

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >like kids, spirituality,

law,

> > > > luck

> > > > > > etc.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Mahadasa of AK brings

lesson to

> > > > us

> > > > > > so its

> > > > > > > > > > not so

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > easy

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > materially but

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >inspiring spiritually,

so if

> > > > Surya

> > > > > > is in

> > > > > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > placement

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AK

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > then it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >can

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >be not so bad as person

is

> > > > spiritual.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Rafal Gendarz

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Jyotish pages:

www.rohinaa. com

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >narender kumar napisa?

(a):

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>Dear Gurujans,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>Kindly throw some light

on

> > > > Jupiter

> > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>Atmakaraka and having

> Jupiter as

> > > > > > > > mahadasha.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>Respectful Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>LN Kumar

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>__________ __ _________

> > > > _________

> > > > > > > > _________

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________ _

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>Take the Internet to Go:

> > > > Go

> > > > > > puts

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internet in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > your

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pocket:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >mail,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>news, photos & more.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>http://mobile.

> > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>

> > > > > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>>

> > > > > > > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./> <http://mobile./

> > > <http://mobile./>>>

> > > > > > > > > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>

<http://mobile./

> > > <http://mobile./>> <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>

> > > > > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>

<http://mobile./

> > > <http://mobile./>> <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>

> > > > > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>>> <http://mobile./

> > > <http://mobile./> <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>>

> > > > > > > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./> <http://mobile./

> > > <http://mobile./>>>>>> /

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > go?refer= 1GNXIC

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >><http://mobile. <http://

> > > > mobile./

> > > > > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>>

> > > > > > > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./> <http://mobile./

> > > <http://mobile./>>>

> > > > > > > > > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>

<http://mobile./

> > > <http://mobile./>> <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>

> > > > > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>

<http://mobile./

> > > <http://mobile./>> <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>

> > > > > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>>> <http://mobile./

> > > <http://mobile./> <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>>

> > > > > > > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./> <http://mobile./

> > > <http://mobile./>>>>>> /

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > go?refer= 1GNXIC>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________

_________

> > > > > > _________

> > > > > > > > > > > > _________

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Advertisement: It's

simple! Sell

> > > > your

> > > > > > car

> > > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > > just

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > $30 at

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > CarPoint.com.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >au

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://a.ninemsn. <http://

> > > > a.ninemsn./

> > > > > > <http://a.ninemsn./ <http://a.ninemsn./>>

> > > > > > > > <http://a.ninemsn./ <http://a.ninemsn./>

> <http://a.ninemsn./

> > > <http://a.ninemsn./>>>

> > > > > > > > > > <http://a.ninemsn./ <http://a.ninemsn./>

> > > <http://a.ninemsn./ <http://a.ninemsn./>> <http://

> > > > a.ninemsn./

> > > > > > <http://a.ninemsn./ <http://a.ninemsn./>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > > > <http://a.ninemsn./ <http://a.ninemsn./>

> > > <http://a.ninemsn./ <http://a.ninemsn./>>

> > > > > > <http://a.ninemsn./ <http://a.ninemsn./>

<http://a.ninemsn./

> > > <http://a.ninemsn./>>> <http://

> > > > > > a.ninemsn./

> > > > > > > > <http://a.ninemsn./ <http://a.ninemsn./>

> <http://a.ninemsn./

> > > <http://a.ninemsn./>>>>>> com.au/b.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > aspx?URL= http%3A%2F%

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2Fsecure%

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >2Dau%2Eimrworldw ide%2Ecom%

> > > > > > 2Fcgi%2Dbin%

> > > > > > > > > > 2Fa%2Fci%

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5F450304%

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2Fet%

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5F2%

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >2Fcg%5F801459% 2Fpi%

5F1004813%

> > > > > > > > 2Fai%5F859641 &

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > _t=762955845 &

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _r=tig_AUG07 &

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_m=EXT

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Best wishes,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SJC Guru Bojan Vidakovic

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for articles and

consultations

> > > > visit

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >http://www.jataveda s.com

> > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/

> > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/> <http://www.jatavedas.com/

> > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/>

> > > > >

> > > > > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/ <http://www.jatavedas.com/>

> > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/ <http://www.jatavedas.com/>>>

> > > > > > > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/

<http://www.jatavedas.com/>

> > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/ <http://www.jatavedas.com/>>

> > > > > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/ <http://www.jatavedas.com/>

> > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/ <http://www.jatavedas.com/>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/

<http://www.jatavedas.com/>

> > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/ <http://www.jatavedas.com/>>

> > > > > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/ <http://www.jatavedas.com/>

> > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/ <http://www.jatavedas.com/>>>

> > > > > > > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/

<http://www.jatavedas.com/>

> > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/ <http://www.jatavedas.com/>>

> > > > > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/ <http://www.jatavedas.com/>

> > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/ <http://www.jatavedas.com/>>>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >----------- ---------

> --------- ---

> > > > -

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Choose the right car based

on

> your

> > > > > > needs.

> > > > > > > > > > Check out

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Autos

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > new Car

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Finder tool.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________

_________

> > > > > > _________

> > > > > > > > > > > > _________ _

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Advertisement: Make shopping

> > > > exciting.

> > > > > > Find

> > > > > > > > > > what you

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > want at

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > www.eBay.com. au

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://a.ninemsn. com.au/

<http://

> > > > > > > > > > a.ninemsn.com.au/

> > > > > > > > > > > > <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/

> <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/>

> > > <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/ <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/>>

> > > > > > <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/ <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/>

> > > <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/ <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/>>>

> > > > > > > > <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/ <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/>

> > > <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/ <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/>>

> > > > > > <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/ <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/>

> > > <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/ <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/>>>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b.aspx?URL=http% 3A%2F%2Frover%

> > > > > > 2Eebay%2Ecom%

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2Frover%2F1% 2F705%2D10129%

> > > > 2D5668%2D323%

> > > > > > > > > > 2F4%2F%3Fid%

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3D6 & _t=763807330 & _r=email_

> taglines_

> > > > > > > > EBAY & _m=EXT

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ---

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take the Internet to Go: Go puts

the

> > > > Internet

> > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > your

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > pocket: mail, news, photos & more.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> ---------------------

> > > > ----

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Be a better Globetrotter. Get better

travel

> > > > answers

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://

> > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://>

> > > > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://

> > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://>>

> > > > > > answers./

> > > > > > > >

> <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./

> > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./>

> > > > > >

<http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./

> > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./>>>

> > > > > > > > dir/

> > > > > > > > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://

> > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://>

> > > > answers./

> > > > > >

<http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./

> > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./>>

> > > > > > dir/

> > > > > > > >

> <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./

> > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./>

> > > > dir/

> > > > > >

> <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./dir/

> > >

<http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./dir/>

> > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > >

> > >

>

_ylc=X3oDMTI5MGx2aThyBF9TAzIxMTU1MDAzNTIEX3MDMzk2NTQ1MTAzBHNlYwNCQUJwa

WxsYXJfTklfMzYwBHNsawNQcm9kdWN0X3F1ZXN0aW9uX3BhZ2U-?

link=list & sid=396545469

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://

> > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://>

> > > > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://

> > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://>>

> > > > > > answers./

> > > > > > > >

> <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./

> > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./>

> > > > > >

<http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./

> > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./>>>

> > > > > > > > dir/

> > > > > > > > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://

> > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://>

> > > > answers./

> > > > > >

<http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./

> > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./>>

> > > > > > dir/

> > > > > > > >

> <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./

> > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./>

> > > > dir/

> > > > > >

> <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./dir/

> > >

<http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./dir/>

> > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > >

> > >

>

_ylc=X3oDMTI5MGx2aThyBF9TAzIxMTU1MDAzNTIEX3MDMzk2NTQ1MTAzBHNlYwNCQUJwa

WxsYXJfTklfMzYwBHNsawNQcm9kdWN0X3F1ZXN0aW9uX3BhZ2U-?

link=list & sid=396545469>>from

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > someone who knows.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Answers - Check it out.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>