[Fwd: Jupiter as AK (to Visti, Tijanaji, Nitish and v_reality)]

[Guest guest]

|| OM TAT SAT ||

Dear Tijana,

You need to look at the mail-chains all over again, as the

discussion got forked along these two lines.

1. Sun represents buddhi in 8-fold Apara prakriti is one statement.

2. Sun is beyond Guna is another.

Also, please dont worry about the kosha as that is the third line

of discussion that i wouldnt like to get into here as am trying to

close on it with one pending mail on Karma.

 

regards,

nitish

 

 

sohamsa , " tijanadamjanovic "

<tijanadamjanovic wrote:

>

> Om Gurave Namah

> Dear Nitish,

> Just look again what you`re conlusion is-Sun represents Buddhi in

> eight-fold apara PRAKRITI scheme and is beyond Guna!

> It seems as if you hold Buddhi to be Purusha himself. If do then what

> is he doing in the eigh-fold division?

> Buddhi forms Vijnanamaya Kosha that is modification of Prakriti

> (Viveka Chudamani 185); Buddhi gives birth to Egoism (186) through

> which he describes himself as Jiva.

> " That which has been created by Buddhi and which is perceived in this

> body as `I am this and that`-when that Egoism is totally destroyed

> one attains Brahman. " (301)

> So Egoism IS the primordial cause of everything that is preceived as

> different.

> Warm regards,

> Tijana

>

>

> sohamsa , " yeeahoo_99 " <nitish.arya@> wrote:

> >

> > || OM TAT SAT ||

> > Dear Visti,

> > > The Sun is not beyond the three Gunas... It is not Nir-guna. It

> is

> > > Sa-guna as it indeed exists in the sky. Among the three Guna it

> is

> >

> > Nirguna doesnt' equate with non-existence but beyond Gunas.

> > There is no sound basis in your statement of comparison as that

> way

> > you wouldnt be able to prove Brahman to a materialist.

> > If Sun would be Sattvic by nature, all those workers who toil day

> > and night in the Sun and receive the most energy, would be most

> > Sattvic beings.

> >

> > > As food mixed with poison is called poison, similarly the

> > > Unmanifest, which is the primordial Cause, is called egoism since

> it

> > > is imbued with the impressions resulting from egoism; and egoism

> is

> > > the impelling force (of all). It is indeed seen in the world that

> > > egoism is the impelling cause behind all endeavour./

> >

> > Never mind dear, egoism is not a force at all, otherwise the most

> > egoistic person would become the most forceful of all. Also, egoism

> is

> > not the primordial cause of anything except sense of egoism . As

> far

> > as food mixed with poison is concerned, ofcourse you are right, but

> if

> > you mean poison mixed with food, it is called poisoned " food " only.

> > BTW, Unmanifest is not called egoism.

> >

> > >Cosmic intelligence exists as long as the creation exists, that

> > > is why it is Hiranyagarbha. Hiranyagarbha has also been created.

> > > Once there is no creation, then cosmic intelligence disappears.

> >

> > Ofcourse, cosmic intelligence disappears but dont tell me that God

> > would use His inherent intelligence to first create cosmic

> > intelligence, so it is not the created essence or Prakriti and hence

> > beyond Gunas. As we see that God is more intelligent than that and

> > cosmic intelligence disaapearing means, it is the last one to quit

> the

> > stage of creation. Thus, only God would have told you that cosmic

> > intelligence is the last one to disappear and the first one to

> appear

> > . Right!

> > The cosmic intelligence being the first, and beyond Gunas, would

> not

> > cease to exist or operate because it is Nir-Guna. Still, it is the

> > cause of the Gunas of Prakriti.

> >

> > I hope you will understand that Sun is beyond three Gunas, and it

> > represents Buddhi in the eight-fold apara prakriti scheme. In either

> > case, i leave it to your discrimination.

> >

> > regards,

> > nitish

> >

> > sohamsa , Visti Larsen <visti@> wrote:

> > >

> > > ??? ??? ??????

> > >

> > > Dear Nitish, Namaskar

> > > This is my reply to your second mail. A combined response would

> make it

> > > easier for both of us.

> > >

> > > You wrote:

> > > /Sun is beyond the three gunas of Prakriti - as u rightly pointed

> out

> > > with reference to sattvic, rajasic, and tamasic buddhi. It exists

> as

> > > the indestructible Cosmic intelligence aspect of God in creation

> (TAT

> > > - refer chapter 15) and is one of the three beings there are, the

> > > destructible being (OM) and the uttermost being, Purushottama

> (SAT)!/

> > >

> > > Visti: I didn't point this out, you misunderstood me. I was

> trying to

> > > justify that the context within which you were interpreting

> Buddhi is

> > > not justifiable from the perspective of Guna.

> > > The Sun is not beyond the three Gunas... It is not Nir-guna. It

> is

> > > Sa-guna as it indeed exists in the sky. Among the three Guna it

> is

> > > Satvic by nature, but that is not a good reason for equating it

> with

> > > Buddhi, as Buddhi need not be satvic.

> > > There is also a concept of 'Satvic ahamkara' according to

> > > Shankaracharya, then where does Rahu fit in this scheme if he

> cannot be

> > > satvic?

> > > Instead if the scheme were to be dependent on the function of the

> > planet

> > > in causing bondage, then we can come a long way. I.e. the Moon is

> a

> > > satvic graha, but the mana of many incarnates in this world is

> far from

> > > that. Instead we must know that the Moon causes the bondage of

> having a

> > > mana, as it is through the contact with our mothers womb during

> > > conception that the mana begins to be aware to begin with -

> > Varahamihira.

> > >

> > > The ahamkara existed BEFORE the mana existed, as the ahamkara

> follows

> > > the atma itself, and actually causes it to THINK that it is a

> jeevatma.

> > > Hence, Shankaracharya in his commentary describes the ahamkara

> as: /By

> > > ahamkara, egoism, is meant the Unmanifest, associated with

> (Cosmic)

> > > ignorrance. As food mixed with poison is called poison, similarly

> the

> > > Unmanifest, which is the primordial Cause, is called egoism since

> it is

> > > imbued with the impressions resulting from egoism; and egoism is

> the

> > > impelling force (of all). It is indeed seen in the world that

> egoism is

> > > the impelling cause behind all endeavour./

> > > All the parenthesis' have been added by Swami Gambhirananda.

> > > So, based on this commentary it seems clear that the ahamkara is

> the

> > > first created from the shunya/unmanifest.

> > >

> > > Now, this is how Shankaracharya describes Buddhi: /By buddhih,

> > > intellect, is meant the principle called mahat* which is the

> source of

> > > egoism./

> > > */Mahat means Hiranyagarbha, or Cosmic Intelligence. -

> Gambhirananda./

> > >

> > > This is the Buddhi which I have tried to tell you about! After

> all, how

> > > can any aspect of /prakriti /carry a purely auspicious quality if

> > > prakriti exists only in this material abode, and NOT in the

> > non-material

> > > abode.

> > > Now, see that Shankaracharya states that Buddhi is the actual

> cause of

> > > the ahamkara to be created! Doesn't this sound like the veil of

> Rahu

> > > over the Atma?

> > >

> > > You wrote:

> > > /In truth, there is never an eclipse for Sun because the Cosmic

> > > intelligence is indestructible and hence never does it stop

> > > functioning///invisible///eclipsed during a cycle of creation./

> > >

> > > Visti: Cosmic intelligence exists as long as the creation exists,

> that

> > > is why it is Hiranyagarbha. Hiranyagarbha has also been created.

> Once

> > > there is no creation, then cosmic intelligence disappears.

> > >

> > > Looking forward to your reply.

> > > Yours sincerely,

> > >

> > > --

> > > Visti Larsen - SJC Guru

> > > Jaimini SJC - Denmark

> > > email: visti@ <visti@>

> > > For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit:

> http://srigaruda.com

> > > <http://srigaruda.com>

> > >

> > > yeeahoo_99 wrote:

> > > >

> > > > || OM TAT SAT ||

> > > > Dear Visti,

> > > > Hope you are fine. You dont seem to be replying to my mail. Is

> it

> > > > so badly written?

> > > > My only objective was to bring out the truth for all including

> > > > myself, but, in doing so, the strong and long held beliefs of

> people

> > > > get hurt.

> > > > Am happy, that while writing these mails, i learnt much more

> than

> > > > what is visible, and this learning cannot happen in isolation.

> The

> > > > reason for my joining this list is to stay in touch.

> > > > Somehow, i always felt that people dont respond to the

> > > > mails/queries i send. May be it happens with everybody.

> > > >

> > > > Just wanted to finish with this one incomplete statement from my

> > > > last mail:

> > > >

> > > > " Karma is the only bandhana that Gita mentions, as Sri Krishna

> > > > couldn't have possibly missed/ignored the rest of the bandhanas

> as it

> > > > is His Apara-Prakriti.

> > > >

> > > > Sun is beyond the three gunas of Prakriti - as u rightly

> pointed out

> > > > with reference to sattvic, rajasic, and tamasic buddhi. It

> exists as

> > > > the indestructible Cosmic intelligence aspect of God in

> creation (TAT

> > > > - refer chapter 15) and is one of the three beings there are,

> the

> > > > destructible being (OM) and the uttermost being, Purushottama

> (SAT)!

> > > >

> > > > For purposes of learning souls on path to self-knowledge, Sun,

> in

> > > > Jyotish, is seen as identified with Sattvic Guna destructible

> Prakriti

> > > > for the deepest reasons**, thus creating a cause for it to be

> eclipsed

> > > > by Tamo Guna of Rahu (Ahamkara causing bodily rebirth).

> > > >

> > > > In truth, there is never an eclipse for Sun because the Cosmic

> > > > intelligence is indestructible and hence never does it stop

> > > > functioning/invisible/eclipsed during a cycle of creation. An

> eclipse

> > > > of Sattva Guna of Sun can only have the deepest learning for the

> > > > jeevatma as the acquisition of ultimate wisdom to go beyond the

> Gunas

> > > > of destructible Prakriti. "

> > > >

> > > > ** A sharp intelligence is a blessing of God and a privilege

> given to

> > > > Human, that wise use for upliftment to Godhood, mediocre use for

> > > > fulfillment of their desires and ignorant use for self-

> destruction.

> > > >

> > > > regards,

> > > > nitish

> > > >

> > > > sohamsa <sohamsa%

> 40>,

> > > > Visti Larsen <visti@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > -------

> > > > > Re: Jupiter as AK (to Visti, Tijanaji, Nitish and

> > v_reality)

> > > > > Sun, 09 Sep 2007 14:41:01 -0000

> > > > > csna25 <csna25@>

> > > > > Visti Larsen <visti@>

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > || OM TAT SAT ||

> > > > > Dear Visti,

> > > > > > Visti: Why does it include those who practice the sohamsa-

> mantra

> > > > > yajna?

> > > > > Sohamsa is the mantra of breath - initiation a soul receives

> from

> > > > > Sri Krishna to progress on the path to evolution. This is the

> > > > > uninterrrupted only living parampara there is.

> > > > >

> > > > > >Visti: How can I know what Krishna meant? Thats why i cited

> Adi

> > > > > >Shankaras commentary, and now you are giving your own

> commentary.

> > > > > > Should i believe in your commentary or that of Adi Shankara?

> > > > >

> > > > > Chapter 6 sloka 5:

> > > > > uddharedatmanatmanam natmanamavasadayet

> > > > > atmaiva hyatmano bandhuratmaiva ripuratmanah -5-

> > > > >

> > > > > > You are equating Buddhi with a spiritual faculty, and this

> is your

> > > > > > basis for equating Buddhi with the Sun. Your intent is

> clear in

> > > > > > this. Then why didn't you equate Buddhi with Jupiter or

> Ketu?

> > > > > > Surely Ketu is much more spiritual than Sun.

> > > > >

> > > > > In eightfold-Prakriti, Jupiter represents Akash Tattwa.

> > > > > Ketu is not there in the scheme of Eightfold-Apara-prakriti,

> as it

> > > > > would rather show a state after liberation from Prakriti.

> > > > > Rahu, being the literal/zodiacal/mathematical opposite of

> Ketu,

> > > > > has Zero-affinity towards liberation of a being (as you

> wrote, it

> > > > > causes rebirth).

> > > > > Sun is the only graha that performs the role of Buddhi as a

> > > > > spiritual faculty.

> > > > >

> > > > > > Visti: Again, just because a PURE buddhi enhances ones

> spiritual

> > > > > > efforts, it doesn't mean it is signified by the Sun.

> > > > >

> > > > > In the eight-fold scheme, Sun as PURE buddhi directs spiritual

> > > > > effort after Rahu has done its role of bringing the soul back

> to a

> > > > > physical body.

> > > > >

> > > > > > Again, the basis of this statement itself is doubtful, due

> to

> > which

> > > > > > you would have to equate Ketu with Buddhi based on your

> > > > > > statements. Based on what you have written how can you

> classify

> > > > > > Buddhi as a Bandhana?

> > > > >

> > > > > Karma is the only bandhana that Gita mentions.

> > > > >

> > > > > > Visti: I don't think my Jyotish Guru is wrong. Also how do

> you

> > > > > > justify that the bandhana has to be decided based on wisdom

> of the

> > > > > > graha? Since when do Moon and Rahu not make spiritual

> efforts?

> > Moon

> > > > > > in eighth house makes the person meditate and perform

> kundalini

> > > > > > yoga, whilst Rahu in tenth makes the person go on

> pilgrimages and

> > > > > > visit tirthas. The Sun doesn't even meditate, he just has

> > faith and

> > > > > > goes to temple. Its Ketu who causes meditation, and its in

> the

> > > > > > junction with Jupiter that he does so through a Guru, and

> its

> > > > > > junction with Venus does so indendently.

> > > > >

> > > > > Sun forms Shiva yoga with Ketu, and is exalted in

> constellation of

> > > > > Ketu. Mind doesnt make any spiritual effort but needs to be

> > > > > controlled (6:34).

> > > > >

> > > > > From KathaUpanishad (III.Up.I.2.3. -13 & 14.)

> > > > > 'The Chariot of the Body': The five horses represent the five

> senses

> > > > > (tongue, eyes, nose, ears and skin). The rein symbolises the

> mind,

> > > > > the driver is the intelligence while the passenger is the

> jeevatma.

> > > > >

> > > > > http://fixedreference.org/2006-Wikipedia-CD-

> Selection/images/46/

> > > > <http://fixedreference.org/2006-Wikipedia-CD-

> Selection/images/46/>

> > > > > 4642.jpg

> > > > >

> > > > > In Mahabharata war scenario, Sri Krishna as driver of Arjunas'

> > > > > chariot is the guiding intelligence of the jeevatma and

> > controller of

> > > > > the reins of the mind. This is the most perfect example of

> Guru-

> > > > > Shishya relationship there is!

> > > > >

> > > > > regards,

> > > > > Nitish

> > > > >

> > > > > sohamsa <sohamsa%

> 40>,

> > > > Visti Larsen <visti@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ??? ??? ??????

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Nitish, Namaskar

> > > > > > Thank you for your reply.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You wrote:

> > > > > > / Gita is the commentary of Parampara of Sri Krishna -

> Arjuna,

> > which

> > > > > > includes everybody that practices the sohamsa mantra yajna.

> Thus,

> > > > > you

> > > > > > can benefit by reading it as it is the only living

> parampara till

> > > > > > date.

> > > > > > /

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Visti: Why does it include those who practice the sohamsa-

> mantra

> > > > > yajna?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The Gita revived the Parampara's through Adi Shankara, as

> he was

> > > > > the one

> > > > > > who brought it to the world, and it is one of his bhasyas.

> But the

> > > > > Gita

> > > > > > itself is not a parampara, but the cause of all the other

> > > > > paramparas to

> > > > > > exist. Each Shankaracharya Mutt is a Parampara in itself and

> > > > > continues

> > > > > > to preach the vedas.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Your statement denounces the importance of these Mutts. Are

> you

> > > > > > practicing the Sohamsa mantra-yajna through Sri Sri Ravi

> Shankar?

> > > > > He was

> > > > > > taught by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi and its well known that the

> origin

> > > > > of

> > > > > > Maharishi is the Jyotirmutt, thus making your Parampara the

> same.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > /You wrote:

> > > > > > A person who isn't fit to distinguish between what he ought

> or

> > > > > > ought not to do; do you think he is fit to practice

> spirituality?

> > > > > Sri

> > > > > > Krishna is not really telling arjuna to practice materiality

> > > > > anyways.

> > > > > > /

> > > > > >

> > > > > > /If you don't understand the role of buddhi from this sloka,

> > Gita is

> > > > > > full of slokas that talk about buddhi as a spiritual faculty

> > (Sun),

> > > > > > unlike Ahamkara (Rahu)./

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Visti: How can I know what Krishna meant? Thats why i cited

> Adi

> > > > > > Shankaras commentary, and now you are giving your own

> commentary.

> > > > > Should

> > > > > > i believe in your commentary or that of Adi Shankara?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You are equating Buddhi with a spiritual faculty, and this

> is your

> > > > > basis

> > > > > > for equating Buddhi with the Sun. Your intent is clear in

> this.

> > > > > > Then why didn't you equate Buddhi with Jupiter or Ketu?

> Surely

> > Ketu

> > > > > is

> > > > > > much more spiritual than Sun.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > /Chapter 3 sloka 1:

> > > > > > Arjuna asks:

> > > > > > " If Buddhi is greater than karma, Janardana

> > > > > > Then why give me the order to be in this intense fight? "

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Chapter 3 sloka 42:

> > > > > > Sri Krishna replies:

> > > > > > " In the body the senses are superior

> > > > > > >From the senses the mind is greater

> > > > > > >From the mind the intellect (buddhi) is superior and

> > > > > > Beyond the intellect is the Atman as the witness " /

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Visti: The word used in this sloka is not 'witness' but

> > 'superior'.

> > > > > Also

> > > > > > the word 'Atma' is not from the translation, but from

> > > > > Shankaracharyas

> > > > > > commentary. The Atma is superior to the intellect, and in

> this

> > case

> > > > > it

> > > > > > refers to Angirasa's definition of Antaratma, and is

> called 'the

> > > > > self'

> > > > > > according to Shankara.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > /Chapter 4 sloka 5 tells that many births of mine and yours

> have

> > > > > > passed.

> > > > > > Chapter 6 sloka 43:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > " Acquiring wisdom (BUDDHI-SAMYOGAM) revived from the

> previous body

> > > > > > thereafter he endeavors once again for perfection. " /

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Visti: Again, just because a PURE buddhi enhances ones

> spiritual

> > > > > > efforts, it doesn't mean it is signified by the Sun.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > /> One could just as easily justify that since the main

> cause of

> > > > > > > rebirth is Rahu, the stronger the bondage of Rahu, so

> also the

> > > > > > > stronger the bondage of Buddhi and thus the eclipse

> > > > > > > of the Sun/spirituality.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Do you still have doubts that Sun refers to Buddhi? Rahu

> > (Ahamkara)

> > > > > > and Moon (manas) don't make spiritual efforts.

> > > > > > Rahu cannot be considered to be wise, in this context, that

> its

> > > > > > " rebirth-causing-//bondage-quality " be used to achieve

> perfection

> > > > > and

> > > > > > liberation in this birth. It is only good at helping a

> > rebirth, not

> > > > > > helping to liberate - thus it is not doing the function of

> > Buddhi by

> > > > > > 6:43.

> > > > > > /

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Visti: I don't think my Jyotish Guru is wrong. Also how do

> you

> > > > > justify

> > > > > > that the bandhana has to be decided based on wisdom of the

> graha?

> > > > > > Since when do Moon and Rahu not make spiritual efforts?

> Moon in

> > > > > eighth

> > > > > > house makes the person meditate and perform kundalini yoga,

> whilst

> > > > > Rahu

> > > > > > in tenth makes the person go on pilgrimages and visit

> tirthas. The

> > > > > Sun

> > > > > > doesn't even meditate, he just has faith and goes to

> temple. Its

> > > > > Ketu

> > > > > > who causes meditation, and its in the junction with Jupiter

> > that he

> > > > > does

> > > > > > so through a Guru, and its junction with Venus does so

> > > > > independently.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Again, the basis of this statement itself is doubtful, due

> to

> > which

> > > > > you

> > > > > > would have to equate Ketu with Buddhi based on your

> statements.

> > > > > Based

> > > > > > on what you have written how can you classify Buddhi as a

> > Bandhana?

> > > > > > Rahu is extremely useful at helping liberation... In fact i

> can

> > > > > justify

> > > > > > how each planet can help liberation, but thats not a fair

> > basis for

> > > > > > justifying their Bandhanas.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > /How many of the 6 billion people, all born due to Rahu-

> bond are

> > > > > > using this birth to make a spiritual effort?

> > > > > > /

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Visti: How about Ramakrishna Paramahamsa? How about Srila

> > > > > Prabhupada?

> > > > > > They are the causes of the largest spiritual missions in

> India and

> > > > > > abroad. I think they made great spiritual effort. They have

> > Rahu as

> > > > > > atmakaraka!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Sun on the other hand causes problems with ahamkara in the

> person.

> > > > > > Citing Sanjay Rath:

> > <http://www.srath.com/lessons/advanced/ak2.htm

> > > > <http://www.srath.com/lessons/advanced/ak2.htm>>

> > > > > >

> > > > > > " *Planets as ätmakäraka: *1. Sun as AK indicates the native

> > > > > has to

> > > > > > learn to overcome his ego and should become humble. " refer:

> > > > > > http://srath.com/lessons/advanced/ak.htm

> > > > <http://srath.com/lessons/advanced/ak.htm>

> > > > > >

> > > > > > " Ahankära refers to its independent identity and is the

> false ego

> > > > > (*not

> > > > > > Freud's ego*). This is false because the identity is not

> permanent

> > > > > and

> > > > > > it is an ego as it helps to identify the object and

> differentiate

> > > > > it

> > > > > > from the other bodies/creatures of its class or family.

> This is

> > > > > > represented by the Sun in astrology. " refer:

> > > > > > http://www.srath.com/lessons/advanced/ak2.htm

> > > > <http://www.srath.com/lessons/advanced/ak2.htm>

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Visti: note the careful reference to /ego /not being

> equated with

> > > > > > Freud's understanding of Ego.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > /Chapter 7 verse 10:

> > > > > > " O Arjuna, try to understand me as the eternal origin of all

> > living

> > > > > > entities. I am the (BuddhirBuddhiMataA/ /smi) intelligence

> in the

> > > > > > intelligent, and the brilliance of the brilliant. "

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Chapter 10 sloka 10:

> > > > > > " One who is always united with Me (see 6:18) and who

> meditates

> > upon

> > > > > Me

> > > > > > with love -- I bestow him with buddhiyoga (meaning

> stillness) by

> > > > > > which, he is the one who attains Me. "

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Chapter 15 sloka 20:

> > > > > > (Etad Buddhva Buddhimaan syat KritaKrityascha bharata)

> > > > > > " Understand with your intelligence this most secret science

> that I

> > > > > > have explained to you and become wise, and thereupon be

> successful

> > > > > in

> > > > > > all your duties. "

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Chapter 18 sloka 30:

> > > > > > " One who knows engagement and withdrawal, work and work

> not to be

> > > > > > done, fear and non-fear, bondage and liberation -- this

> type of

> > > > > > (Buddhi) intellect is sattvic. "

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Rahu cannot be Sattvic!

> > > > > > /

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Visti: Does that mean Sun can be tamasic? How about all

> those who

> > > > > don't

> > > > > > have satva budhi? Are you saying they don't have a buddhi

> because

> > > > > its

> > > > > > not satvic? Your justification doesn't hold water.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > /Chapter 18, sloka 57:

> > > > > > " Dedicate all action to Me from the (chetasa)heart,

> extinguish

> > > > > > wholly, be devoted to Me, take recourse in buddhi-yoga and

> > keep your

> > > > > > consciousness always on Me. "

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 18:30, 10:10 -- there is nothing like Ahamkara Yoga, but

> Buddhi-

> > > > > > Yoga. With Sun as ParamAtma, one would have a yoga with him

> as

> > > > > Buddhi.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thus, if buddhi is all that important all along from 2nd to

> 18th

> > > > > > chapter, in Gita, lets understand it as a function of Surya

> with

> > > > > > Sattvic Buddhi. /

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Visti: If Satvic Budhi is the Sun, then is Sun also

> Tamasic/impure

> > > > > > Budhi? You are only dealing with the highest aspect of

> Buddhi in

> > > > > these

> > > > > > slokas, and not speaking of Buddhi as a bandhana.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Since our entire discussion revolves around Sun, Moon and

> Rahu

> > > > > which are

> > > > > > the causes of the eclipse, i will quote a translation of

> > > > > Dakshinamurti

> > > > > > Stotra:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > rähugrastadiväkarendusadåço mäyäsamäcchädanät sanmätraù

> > > > > > karaëopasaàharaëato yo'bhütsuñuptaù pumän |

> > > > > >

> > > > > > prägasväpsamiti prabodhasamaye yaù pratyabhijïäyate tasmai

> > > > > > çrégurumürtaye nama idaà çrédakñiëämürtaye || 6||

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The Sun (atma) is eclipsed when the Moon (Mana) conjoins it

> > and the

> > > > > Moon

> > > > > > is in the latitude as the orbital plane of the earth where

> the

> > > > > > intersection points are the nodes (Rahu & Ketu). It is this

> Rahu

> > > > > that is

> > > > > > said to cause the eclipse. Simiarly, the Rahu of our lives

> is our

> > > > > own

> > > > > > desires and sice Rahu is a node of the Moon (mana), the

> > desires are

> > > > > the

> > > > > > creation of the mind. It is the coming together or

> conjunction of

> > > > > the

> > > > > > atma (Sun), mana (Moon) and desires (Rahu) that causes an

> eclipse

> > > > > or

> > > > > > birth itself.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Visti: The key lies in this, namely that Rahu being a node

> of the

> > > > > Moon

> > > > > > is the cause of desires created in the mind, and very much

> deals

> > > > > with

> > > > > > the mind.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Further; ATMA means self. There are three types of atma

> according

> > > > > to

> > > > > > Angirasa, namely: Atma, Antaratma and Paramatma. The first

> is the

> > > > > body

> > > > > > itself and its senses. The second is the abode of the

> individual

> > > > > soul or

> > > > > > Jeevatma, and finally the Paramatma is God.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > So when Parasara and other seers stated that the Sun is the

> atma,

> > > > > they

> > > > > > also refer to the entire gamut of definitions of the self.

> > Ahamkara

> > > > > is a

> > > > > > function of 'thinking' one is the self, and is the bondage

> that

> > > > > caused

> > > > > > the Jeevatma to separate from the Paramatma to begin with!

> This is

> > > > > > defined in the cosmology where the ahamkara merged with the

> > various

> > > > > > Gunas to cause the bhutas, etc. to manifest.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Looking forward to your reply.

> > > > > > Yours sincerely,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > --

> > > > > > Visti Larsen - SJC Guru

> > > > > > Jaimini SJC - Denmark

> > > > > > email: visti@ <visti@>

> > > > > > For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: http://

> > > > > srigaruda.com

> > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>

> > > > > >

> > > > > > yeeahoo_99 wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > || OM TAT SAT ||

> > > > > > > Dear Visti,

> > > > > > > Gita is the commentary of Parampara of Sri Krishna -

> Arjuna,

> > which

> > > > > > > includes everybody that practices the sohamsa mantra

> yajna.

> > Thus,

> > > > > you

> > > > > > > can benefit by reading it as it is the only living

> parampara

> > till

> > > > > > > date.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Visti: I don't have this translation. Is this an

> inference?

> > > > > > > > The last two words used here are: buddhinaashaat-

> praNashyati =

> > > > > > > > destruction of buddhi causes one to be

> lost/dissapear/vanish/

> > > > > > > perish. > Did you infer that it was spirituality which

> perished?

> > > > > To

> > > > > > > this Adi

> > > > > > > > Shankara comments: /Indeed, a man continues to be

> himself so

> > > > > long

> > > > > > > as > his mind remains fit to distinguish between what he

> > ought to

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > ought not to do./

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > A person who isn't fit to distinguish between what he

> ought or

> > > > > > > ought not to do; do you think he is fit to practice

> > spirituality?

> > > > > Sri

> > > > > > > Krishna is not really telling arjuna to practice

> materiality

> > > > > anyways.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > If you don't understand the role of buddhi from this

> sloka, Gita

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > full of slokas that talk about buddhi as a spiritual

> faculty

> > > > > (Sun),

> > > > > > > unlike Ahamkara (Rahu).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Chapter 3 sloka 1:

> > > > > > > Arjuna asks:

> > > > > > > " If Buddhi is greater than karma, Janardana

> > > > > > > Then why give me the order to be in this intense fight? "

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Chapter 3 sloka 42:

> > > > > > > Sri Krishna replies:

> > > > > > > " In the body the senses are superior

> > > > > > > >From the senses the mind is greater

> > > > > > > >From the mind the intellect (buddhi) is superior and

> > > > > > > Beyond the intellect is the Atman as the witness "

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Chapter 4 sloka 5 tells that many births of mine and

> yours have

> > > > > > > passed.

> > > > > > > Chapter 6 sloka 43:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > " Acquiring wisdom (BUDDHI-SAMYOGAM) revived from the

> > previous body

> > > > > > > thereafter he endeavors once again for perfection. "

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > One could just as easily justify that since the main

> cause of

> > > > > > > > rebirth is Rahu, the stronger the bondage of Rahu, so

> also the

> > > > > > > > stronger the bondage of Buddhi and thus the eclipse

> > > > > > > > of the Sun/spirituality.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Do you still have doubts that Sun refers to Buddhi? Rahu

> > > > > (Ahamkara)

> > > > > > > and Moon (manas) don't make spiritual efforts.

> > > > > > > Rahu cannot be considered to be wise, in this context,

> that its

> > > > > > > " rebirth-causing-bondage-quality " be used to achieve

> perfection

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > liberation in this birth. It is only good at helping a

> rebirth,

> > > > > not

> > > > > > > helping to liberate - thus it is not doing the function of

> > Buddhi

> > > > > by

> > > > > > > 6:43.

> > > > > > > How many of the 6 billion people, all born due to Rahu-

> bond are

> > > > > > > using this birth to make a spiritual effort?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Chapter 7 verse 10:

> > > > > > > " O Arjuna, try to understand me as the eternal origin of

> all

> > > > > living

> > > > > > > entities. I am the (BuddhirBuddhiMataAsmi) intelligence

> in the

> > > > > > > intelligent, and the brilliance of the brilliant. "

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Chapter 10 sloka 10:

> > > > > > > " One who is always united with Me (see 6:18) and who

> meditates

> > > > > upon Me

> > > > > > > with love -- I bestow him with buddhiyoga (meaning

> stillness) by

> > > > > > > which, he is the one who attains Me. "

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Chapter 15 sloka 20:

> > > > > > > (Etad Buddhva Buddhimaan syat KritaKrityascha bharata)

> > > > > > > " Understand with your intelligence this most secret

> science

> > that I

> > > > > > > have explained to you and become wise, and thereupon be

> > > > > successful in

> > > > > > > all your duties. "

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Chapter 18 sloka 30:

> > > > > > > " One who knows engagement and withdrawal, work and work

> not

> > to be

> > > > > > > done, fear and non-fear, bondage and liberation -- this

> type of

> > > > > > > (Buddhi) intellect is sattvic. "

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Rahu cannot be Sattvic!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Chapter 18, sloka 57:

> > > > > > > " Dedicate all action to Me from the (chetasa)heart,

> extinguish

> > > > > > > wholly, be devoted to Me, take recourse in buddhi-yoga

> and keep

> > > > > your

> > > > > > > consciousness always on Me. "

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 18:30, 10:10 -- there is nothing like Ahamkara Yoga, but

> Buddhi-

> > > > > > > Yoga. With Sun as ParamAtma, one would have a yoga with

> him as

> > > > > Buddhi.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thus, if buddhi is all that important all along from 2nd

> to 18th

> > > > > > > chapter, in Gita, lets understand it as a function of

> Surya with

> > > > > > > Sattvic Buddhi.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > > Nitish

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > sohamsa

> > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > <sohamsa%40>,

> > > > > > > Visti Larsen <visti@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > ??? ??? ??????

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Nitish, Namaskar

> > > > > > > > Thank you for your mail.

> > > > > > > > You mention a Parampara below. Please provide the name

> of the

> > > > > > > Parampara

> > > > > > > > and its commentary for our benefit so we can read more.

> In

> > > > > > > answering

> > > > > > > > your points, i will be using the Gita's commentary by

> Adi

> > > > > Shankara

> > > > > > > -

> > > > > > > > translated by Svami Gambhirananda.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > /1.) About Buddhi:

> > > > > > > > Chapter 2 sloka 52, 53 -->

> > > > > > > > " When Buddhi penetrates beyond darkness of delusion,

> then you

> > > > > shall

> > > > > > > > be indifferent about the matters heard and to-be-heard./

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > /. "

> > > > > > > > " ..Buddhi becoming securely anchored in soul bliss, one

> > attains

> > > > > > > yoga. "

> > > > > > > > /

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > /Chapter 2 sloka 62,63 -->

> > > > > > > > DECAY OF BUDDHI causes ANNIHILATION of spiritual life./

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Visti: I don't have this translation. Is this an

> > inference? The

> > > > > > > last two

> > > > > > > > words used here are: buddhinaashaat-praNashyati =

> > destruction of

> > > > > > > buddhi

> > > > > > > > causes one to be lost/dissapear/vanish/perish. Did you

> infer

> > > > > that

> > > > > > > it was

> > > > > > > > spirituality which perished? To this Adi Shankara

> comments: /

> > > > > > > Indeed, a

> > > > > > > > man continues to be himself so long as his mind remains

> fit to

> > > > > > > > distinguish between what he ought to and ought not to

> do./

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > /NOTE:- Jyotish tells us that Sprituality is related to

> > Sun more

> > > > > > > than

> > > > > > > > Rahu, as seen in those with AK in kendra to Sun.

> > > > > > > > /

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Visti: All eight of the bandhanas once tightened cause

> loss of

> > > > > > > > spirituality, not just Buddhi. If a student has so much

> > ahamkara

> > > > > > > that he

> > > > > > > > believes he knows everything, then he will not read

> books and

> > > > > again

> > > > > > > > spirituality is destroyed. If a one is fully engrossed

> in his/

> > > > > her

> > > > > > > desire

> > > > > > > > for procreation then again the spirituality is ruined.

> The

> > > > > latter

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > explained in Chapter 2, sloka 60. So all eight bandhas

> cause

> > > > > this

> > > > > > > > problem, and not just Buddhi.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > /Chapter 2 sloka 65 -->

> > > > > > > > Buddhi of the blissful man soon becomes firmly

> established (in

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > self).

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Chapter 5 sloka 20 -->

> > > > > > > > " The Knower of spirit, abiding in Supreme being, with

> STHIRA

> > > > > BUDDHI,

> > > > > > > > free from delusion, is thus neither jubiliant at

> pleasant

> > > > > > > experiences

> > > > > > > > nor downcast by unpleasant experiences./ / " /

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Visti: You are very right to give Buddhi such a high

> pedestal

> > > > > among

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > eight bandhas, because indeed the worst Bandha is that

> of

> > Buddhi

> > > > > > > just as

> > > > > > > > Rahu is the main karaka for all Bandhana of the soul.

> > Overcoming

> > > > > > > this,

> > > > > > > > all the other bandhas break easily. This is the reason

> Rahu is

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > main

> > > > > > > > cause of rebirth. This is why the Shiva purana

> > > > > (Satirudrasamhita)

> > > > > > > states

> > > > > > > > that the Shiva form who is able to control the bondage

> of Rahu

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > > Pashupati. Shiva then explains that Pashupati is

> > responsible for

> > > > > > > > breaking all wordly bondages (pashupAshanikR^intanaM).

> > > > > > > > According to Shiva, Ishana is the form of Shiva which

> controls

> > > > > > > Surya.

> > > > > > > > More below.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > /2.) About AHAMKARA:

> > > > > > > > Chapter 2 sloka 71 -->

> > > > > > > > " That person realizes peace who, relinquishing all

> desires,

> > > > > exists

> > > > > > > > without craving and is UNIDENTIFIED WITH AHAMKARA

> (mortal ego)

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > its sense of mine-ness. " /

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Visti: Adi Shankara comments that this actually refers

> to one

> > > > > > > becoming

> > > > > > > > one with Brahman i.e. enlightenment. Among the forms of

> Shiva

> > > > > which

> > > > > > > > specifically give this enlightenment

> (sandIpayajjagatsarvam -

> > > > > > > enlightens

> > > > > > > > the entire universe), we see that the form of Ishana is

> talked

> > > > > > > about.

> > > > > > > > Note that the word used is /SandIpa/, and this happens

> to

> > be the

> > > > > > > Guru of

> > > > > > > > Sri Krishna (SandIpani).

> > > > > > > > However, this sloka from the Gita is not strictly for

> > ahamkara,

> > > > > but

> > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > all the eight bandhas.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > /3.) About MANAS JOINED WITH BUDDHI:

> > > > > > > > Chapter 2 sloka 51:

> > > > > > > > " Those whose minds are joined to wisdom (BUDDHI-

> YUKTA)/ /,

> > > > > having

> > > > > > > > abandoned action's fruit, Freed thus from bondage to

> rebirth,

> > > > > they

> > > > > > > > attain the state beyond sorrow. "

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Also refer Chapter 13 slokas 1 - 11:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > " ...Indifference to sense objects, And absence of

> egotism

> > > > > > > > (NIRHAMKARA)/ /;...Constant evenmindedness in Desired

> and

> > > > > undesired

> > > > > > > > events...With single-minded yoga,...Constant in

> knowledge

> > of the

> > > > > > > Self,

> > > > > > > > Seeing the goal of truth-knowledge--

> > > > > > > > This is said to be true knowledge.

> > > > > > > > The contrary is ignorance. "

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Chapter 8 sloka 9 refers

> > > > > > > > " He who meditates on the Seer, the Ruler, The ancient,

> subtler

> > > > > than

> > > > > > > > the atom, support Of all, Whose form is inconceivable

> and

> > > > > RADIANT

> > > > > > > > LIKE THE SUN and beyond darkness. "

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > This proves beyond doubt and questioning the central

> role of

> > > > > > > > BUDDHI in the spiritual growth of a devotee like

> ARJUNA. Now,

> > > > > this

> > > > > > > > role is not played by AHAMKARA or MANAS independently.

> > > > > > > > Thus, Sun as dispeller of darkness is the only correct

> > > > > assignment of

> > > > > > > > the role of Buddhi.

> > > > > > > > /

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Visti: Your inference implies that only one of the eight

> > bandhas

> > > > > > > deal

> > > > > > > > with spiritual growth or its lacking. One could just as

> easily

> > > > > > > justify

> > > > > > > > that since the main cause of rebirth is Rahu, the

> stronger the

> > > > > > > bondage

> > > > > > > > of Rahu, so also the stronger the bondage of Buddhi and

> > thus the

> > > > > > > eclipse

> > > > > > > > of the Sun/spirituality. Thus for this reason we

> worship Sri

> > > > > > > > Dakshinamurti on the day of the eclipse to be released

> > from this

> > > > > > > > Bandhana and get enighenment. This is what the Sadhu's

> > practice.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Note the word Buddhi is used in three different ways in

> > the gita

> > > > > > > > according to Adi Shankara and Gambhiranandas

> translation, viz.

> > > > > i)

> > > > > > > buddhi

> > > > > > > > as a bandha, ii) samatva buddhi (pure buddhi) and iii)

> > buddhi as

> > > > > > > > enlightenment, and cannot be mixed arbitrarily.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > /Getting back to the eightfold Prakriti, Sun (Buddhi),

> Moon

> > > > > (MANAS)

> > > > > > > > and Rahu (Ahamkara) is the only correct version as per

> the

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > GURU-SHISYA PARAMPARA

> > > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > Sri Krishna-Arjuna/

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > The reason why in Jyotish most associate the Sun with

> Ahamkara

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > > general terms, is because of the story of Vivasvan and

> Sanjna

> > > > > > > > (memory/recollection). In the story Vivasvans rays

> become so

> > > > > > > bright, and

> > > > > > > > he became so knowledgeable (and self absorbed) that

> Sanjna

> > left

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > only

> > > > > > > > left her shadow (false recollection) behind.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > He only could reunite with Sanjna once his father in-law

> > reduced

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > rays of Vivasvan, and he could himself take on a form

> that

> > > > > Sanjna

> > > > > > > was

> > > > > > > > pleased with.

> > > > > > > > So the story of Vivasvan/Surya tells us about this

> nature of

> > > > > > > Ahamkara.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Looking forward to your reply.

> > > > > > > > Yours sincerely,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > --

> > > > > > > > Visti Larsen - SJC Guru

> > > > > > > > Jaimini SJC - Denmark

> > > > > > > > email: visti@ <visti@>

> > > > > > > > For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit:

> http://

> > > > > > > srigaruda.com

> > > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>

> > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>>

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > yeeahoo_99 wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > || OM TAT SAT||

> > > > > > > > > Dear Visti,

> > > > > > > > > Lets look at what Sri Krishna tells Arjuna in Gita

> about

> > > > > Buddhi,

> > > > > > > > > Manas and Ahamkara.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 1.) About Buddhi:

> > > > > > > > > Chapter 2 sloka 52, 53 -->

> > > > > > > > > " When Buddhi penetrates beyond darkness of delusion,

> > then you

> > > > > > > shall

> > > > > > > > > be indifferent about the matters heard and to-be-

> heard.. "

> > > > > > > > > " ..Buddhi becoming securely anchored in soul bliss,

> one

> > > > > attains

> > > > > > > yoga. "

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Chapter 2 sloka 62,63 -->

> > > > > > > > > DECAY OF BUDDHI causes ANNIHILATION of spiritual life.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > NOTE:- Jyotish tells us that Sprituality is related

> to Sun

> > > > > more

> > > > > > > than

> > > > > > > > > Rahu, as seen in those with AK in kendra to Sun.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Chapter 2 sloka 65 -->

> > > > > > > > > Buddhi of the blissful man soon becomes firmly

> established

> > > > > (in the

> > > > > > > > > self).

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Chapter 5 sloka 20 -->

> > > > > > > > > " The Knower of spirit, abiding in Supreme being, with

> STHIRA

> > > > > > > BUDDHI,

> > > > > > > > > free from delusion, is thus neither jubiliant at

> pleasant

> > > > > > > experiences

> > > > > > > > > nor downcast by unpleasant experiences. "

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 2.) About AHAMKARA:

> > > > > > > > > Chapter 2 sloka 71 -->

> > > > > > > > > " That person realizes peace who, relinquishing all

> desires,

> > > > > exists

> > > > > > > > > without craving and is UNIDENTIFIED WITH AHAMKARA

> (mortal

> > > > > ego) and

> > > > > > > > > its sense of mine-ness. "

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 3.) About MANAS JOINED WITH BUDDHI:

> > > > > > > > > Chapter 2 sloka 51:

> > > > > > > > > " Those whose minds are joined to wisdom (BUDDHI-

> YUKTA),

> > having

> > > > > > > > > abandoned action's fruit, Freed thus from bondage to

> > rebirth,

> > > > > they

> > > > > > > > > attain the state beyond sorrow. "

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Also refer Chapter 13 slokas 1 - 11:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > " ...Indifference to sense objects, And absence of

> egotism

> > > > > > > > > (NIRHAMKARA);...Constant evenmindedness in Desired and

> > > > > undesired

> > > > > > > > > events...With single-minded yoga,...Constant in

> knowledge of

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > Self,

> > > > > > > > > Seeing the goal of truth-knowledge--

> > > > > > > > > This is said to be true knowledge.

> > > > > > > > > The contrary is ignorance. "

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Chapter 8 sloka 9 refers

> > > > > > > > > " He who meditates on the Seer, the Ruler, The ancient,

> > subtler

> > > > > > > than

> > > > > > > > > the atom, support Of all, Whose form is inconceivable

> and

> > > > > RADIANT

> > > > > > > > > LIKE THE SUN and beyond darkness. "

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > This proves beyond doubt and questioning the central

> role of

> > > > > > > > > BUDDHI in the spiritual growth of a devotee like

> ARJUNA.

> > Now,

> > > > > this

> > > > > > > > > role is not played by AHAMKARA or MANAS independently.

> > > > > > > > > Thus, Sun as dispeller of darkness is the only correct

> > > > > assignment

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > the role of Buddhi.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Getting back to the eightfold Prakriti, Sun (Buddhi),

> Moon

> > > > > (MANAS)

> > > > > > > > > and Rahu (Ahamkara) is the only correct version as

> per the

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > GURU-SHISYA PARAMPARA

> > > > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > Sri Krishna-Arjuna

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > > > > Nitish

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > sohamsa

> > > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>,

> > > > > > > > > Visti Larsen <visti@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > ??? ??? ??????

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Dear Nitish, Namaskar

> > > > > > > > > > Thank you for this mail.

> > > > > > > > > > I will be answering the main points of your mail.

> The main

> > > > > > > points

> > > > > > > > > being

> > > > > > > > > > the foundation of the facts/statements you present.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > /You wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > So lets begin with Eightfold-Prakriti of Krishna,

> your

> > > > > reference

> > > > > > > > > > point itself is incorrect. Gita Chapter 7 sloka 4

> > states:...

> > > > > > > > > > /

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I cannot disagree, as i had wrongly written prakriti

> > > > > instead of

> > > > > > > > > buddhi.

> > > > > > > > > > Siva purana confirms this:

> > > > > > > > > > */Siva Purana, Vishvesvara Samhita,4/*

> > > > > > > > > > /Prakriti /comprises of buddhi, ahamkara,

> gunaatmaka and

> > > > > > > > > panchatanmatra.

> > > > > > > > > > All these combined are called Prakriti.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > /You wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > Neither the five tattwas, Buddhi nor Manah can be

> assigned

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > Rahu

> > > > > > > > > > and thus Ahamkara is the only thing that can

> logically be

> > > > > > > assigned

> > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > Rahu. So the correct version of eightfold

> > representation of

> > > > > > > Prakriti

> > > > > > > > > > is:...

> > > > > > > > > > /

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Mana and Buddhi can indeed both be attributed to

> Rahu, as

> > > > > Rahu

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > well

> > > > > > > > > > known to show the desires of the mind. Here the

> Parampara

> > > > > comes

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > our

> > > > > > > > > > help and specifically defines Buddhi to be assigned

> to

> > Rahu,

> > > > > > > > > whereas

> > > > > > > > > > Mana and Ahamkara have been assigned to Moon and Sun

> > > > > > > respectively.

> > > > > > > > > So

> > > > > > > > > > why does Sun represent Ahamkara?

> > > > > > > > > > aham = self. kaara=causative/doer. The cause of

> self in

> > > > > other

> > > > > > > words.

> > > > > > > > > > Monier Williams translates this as:

> > > > > > > > > > /m. conception of one's individuality , self-

> consciousness

> > > > > > > ChUp. & c.

> > > > > > > > > > the making of self , thinking of self , egotism

> MBh. & c./

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Where Rahu caused the desire which led to rebirth,

> it is a

> > > > > given

> > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > the Sun is the actual creator of everything, and

> with that

> > > > > > > creation

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > ahamkaara is one of the negative effects of the

> same. But

> > > > > this

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > just

> > > > > > > > > > my justification the traditions teachings.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > /You wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > There is ONLY ONE bondage and not Eight of them.

> Ahamkara

> > > > > > > doesn't

> > > > > > > > > > cause bondage of atma as you have written, but

> Karma alone

> > > > > > > causes

> > > > > > > > > > bondage of atma, and is not a part of eightfold-

> prakriti

> > > > > > > referred

> > > > > > > > > > above. Refer Gita Chapter 2 verse 39 as follows:

> > > > > > > > > > /

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > The sloka you qoute is right, but your inference...

> Heres

> > > > > what

> > > > > > > Siva

> > > > > > > > > > Purana says:/

> > > > > > > > > > /

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > */Siva Purana, Vishvesvara Samhita,2/*

> > > > > > > > > > Because of remaining in eight types of bandhana, the

> > soul is

> > > > > > > called

> > > > > > > > > > /Jeeva/. When a person is freed from these

> bondages, the

> > > > > person

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > called /Mukta.

> > > > > > > > > > /

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > /*Siva Purana, Vishvesvara Samhita,3*

> > > > > > > > > > /Emancipation is the control of these bondages of

> prakriti

> > > > > etc.

> > > > > > > One

> > > > > > > > > > trapped in these is called /Jeeva/, and one freed

> from

> > them

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > called

> > > > > > > > > > /Mukta./

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > */Siva Purana, Vishvesvara Samhita,4/*

> > > > > > > > > > /Prakriti /comprises of buddhi, ahamkara,

> gunaatmaka and

> > > > > > > > > panchatanmatra.

> > > > > > > > > > All these combined are called Prakriti.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > */Siva Purana, Vishvesvara Samhita,5/*

> > > > > > > > > > These eight bondages are the body. The activities

> of this

> > > > > body

> > > > > > > are

> > > > > > > > > > called the /karmas/.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Later in sloka 8 Suta explains that due to karmas

> the soul

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > bound

> > > > > > > > > by

> > > > > > > > > > these eight bondages. So these are indeed the

> bondages and

> > > > > they

> > > > > > > are

> > > > > > > > > > created due to Karma. The issue being that the

> bondages

> > > > > > > themselves

> > > > > > > > > can

> > > > > > > > > > lead one to recreate the same karma again and

> again, just

> > > > > as one

> > > > > > > > > desire

> > > > > > > > > > leads to a thousand more.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > /You wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > ParamAtma is a collective of all the atmas. Concept

> of

> > Chara

> > > > > > > > > > karakas is only indicative of the separate identity

> > > > > (Ahamkara)

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > soul in the realm of relationships - led by the AK

> as

> > a king

> > > > > > > leads a

> > > > > > > > > > kingdom. So AK has the job of understanding the

> realm of

> > > > > > > > > > relationships with other atmas and thereby help the

> > > > > attainment

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > individuals' understanding of ParamAtma./

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Yes, once Sun atmakaraka's understand this within

> > > > > themselves,

> > > > > > > they

> > > > > > > > > > should teach it to others.

> > > > > > > > > > Looking forward to your reply.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Yours sincerely,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > --

> > > > > > > > > > Visti Larsen - SJC Guru

> > > > > > > > > > Jaimini SJC - Denmark

> > > > > > > > > > email: visti@ <visti@>

> > > > > > > > > > For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit:

> http://

> > > > > > > > > srigaruda.com

> > > > > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>

> > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>

> > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>

> > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>>>

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > yeeahoo_99 wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > || Om TAT SAT ||

> > > > > > > > > > > Dear Visti,

> > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for a good mail.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Surely Surya is not Ahamkara, thats like saying

> that

> > > > > Rahu is

> > > > > > > > > Durga.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > How are you so sure about it? The question still

> remains

> > > > > > > > > unanswered

> > > > > > > > > > > i.e. how do you prove that Surya represents

> Ahamkara?

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > The graha which 'represents' the bondage of

> > ahamkara is

> > > > > > > Surya.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > This brings up another question: i.e. if there is

> a

> > > > > bondage of

> > > > > > > > > > > Ahamkara at all?

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Ahamkar is referred in Gita chapter 3, verse 27 as

> > > > > follows:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > " All activities are being enacted by the senses

> of the

> > > > > > > (Prakriti)

> > > > > > > > > > > material nature without exception; but the

> unrealized,

> > > > > > > deluded by

> > > > > > > > > > > (AhamKara) false identification of being the

> body, thus

> > > > > > > thinks:

> > > > > > > > > " I am

> > > > > > > > > > > the doer "

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Ahamkara (surya), Manas (chandra), Prakriti

> (rahu),

> > > > > > > > > Akasha(guru),

> > > > > > > > > > > > Agni(mangala), Jala (shukra), Vayu (shani) and

> Prithvi

> > > > > > > (budha)

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > So lets begin with Eightfold-Prakriti of Krishna,

> your

> > > > > > > reference

> > > > > > > > > > > point itself is incorrect. Gita Chapter 7 sloka 4

> > states:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > " Earth, water, fire, air, ether, Manah, Buddhi,

> and

> > > > > Ahamkara;

> > > > > > > thus

> > > > > > > > > > > these are the eightfold divisions of my Prakriti. "

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Neither the five tattwas, Buddhi nor Manah can be

> > > > > assigned to

> > > > > > > Rahu

> > > > > > > > > > > and thus Ahamkara is the only thing that can

> > logically be

> > > > > > > > > assigned to

> > > > > > > > > > > Rahu. So the correct version of eightfold

> representation

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > Prakriti

> > > > > > > > > > > is:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Buddhi (surya), Manah (chandra), Ahamkara (rahu),

> > > > > > > Akasha(guru),

> > > > > > > > > > > Agni(mangala), Jala (shukra), Vayu (shani) and

> Prithvi

> > > > > (budha)

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Now, to overcome these eight bondages, there

> are EIGHT

> > > > > ways

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > look

> > > > > > > > > > > > at God through which we can be freed. For the

> Ahamkara

> > > > > we

> > > > > > > must

> > > > > > > > > > > > look at God as Paramatman.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > There is ONLY ONE bondage and not Eight of them.

> > Ahamkara

> > > > > > > doesn't

> > > > > > > > > > > cause bondage of atma as you have written, but

> Karma

> > alone

> > > > > > > causes

> > > > > > > > > > > bondage of atma, and is not a part of eightfold-

> prakriti

> > > > > > > referred

> > > > > > > > > > > above. Refer Gita Chapter 2 verse 39 as follows:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > " O Arjuna! What has been declared to you this

> spiritual

> > > > > > > > > intelligence

> > > > > > > > > > > (Buddhih) according to the Samkhya (the path of

> > > > > knowledge).

> > > > > > > Now

> > > > > > > > > > > listen to the teaching of Yoga (the path of

> selfless

> > > > > action

> > > > > > > > > combined

> > > > > > > > > > > with devotion) by practising which the bondage of

> > Karma is

> > > > > > > > > overcome. "

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Also, Chapter 3 verse 9 verifies that Karma causes

> > > > > bondage:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > " O son of Kunti! In this world all actions,

> unless they

> > > > > are

> > > > > > > done

> > > > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > > > an offering to God (or as Yajna), become causes of

> > > > > bondage.

> > > > > > > > > > > Therefore, work for the sake of God without

> personal

> > > > > > > attachments. "

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Chapter 3 verse 31 cross-verfies it as follows:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > " Whoever follow this teaching of mine, with their

> minds

> > > > > full

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > faith

> > > > > > > > > > > and free from disparagement, they also are

> released from

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > bondage

> > > > > > > > > > > of reactions from Actions (Karma). "

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > That liberation is attained by knowing the correct

> > way of

> > > > > > > acting

> > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > given in Chapter 4 verse 16:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > " What is (karma) action and what is (akarma) 'non-

> > > > > action', is

> > > > > > > a

> > > > > > > > > > > subject regarding which even the wise are

> perplexed. I

> > > > > shall

> > > > > > > > > > > therefore speak to you about (Karma)work, by

> knowing

> > which

> > > > > > > one is

> > > > > > > > > > > liberated from evil (or the life of bondage in

> Samsara) "

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > The reason for liberation is written as Chapter 5

> > verse 3:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > " It should be known, O mighty-armed one! That one

> who

> > > > > neither

> > > > > > > > > > > disdains nor desires fruits of actions, should be

> known

> > > > > as one

> > > > > > > > > > > established in renunciation. Certainly, that

> person

> > being

> > > > > free

> > > > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > > all dualities is easily liberated from bondage. "

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > For the Ahamkara we must look at God as

> Paramatman.

> > > > > This is

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > remedy itself. And the specific form of Shiva

> > > > > > > > > > > > who will help us realize this is Ishana for the

> Sun.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Please understand that Ahamkara is not a disease

> that we

> > > > > look

> > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > > > remedies to it. It is the eightfold prakriti of

> Krishna.

> > > > > > > > > Otherwise,

> > > > > > > > > > > mind, buddhi, and pancha-tattwas will also need

> to be

> > > > > > > remedied.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > And among those born with Surya as atmakaraka

> we have

> > > > > > > grades of

> > > > > > > > > > > > those being fully engrossed in ahamkara vs.

> having

> > > > > complete

> > > > > > > > > control

> > > > > > > > > > > > of ahamkara.

> > > > > > > > > > > I am not sure what you mean by complete control of

> > > > > Ahamkara,

> > > > > > > > > > > because one who has complete control of his manas

> > and has

> > > > > > > buddhi

> > > > > > > > > > > devoted to Krishna - realizes his divine nature of

> > > > > > > > > " AhamBrahmaAsmi "

> > > > > > > > > > > and gets freed from the bondage of Karma.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Divine souls like Vivekananda, Ramakrishna

> > > > > > > > > > > > Paramahamsa and Sri Krishna being at one end of

> the

> > > > > scale.

> > > > > > > With

> > > > > > > > > > > > fellows like Donald Trump, Adolph Hitler

> (exalted

> > surya

> > > > > > > yuti AK)

> > > > > > > > > > > >and others at the other end of the scale.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Liberation is caused by the development of

> > divine/demoniac

> > > > > > > nature,

> > > > > > > > > > > Chapter 16 Verse 5:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > " The divine nature is considered the cause of

> liberation

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > demoniac nature the cause of bondage. Grieve not,

> O

> > son of

> > > > > > > Pandu!

> > > > > > > > > You

> > > > > > > > > > > are born of the divine nature. "

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > So please don't make the equation that everyone

> with

> > > > > Surya

> > > > > > > > > > > > atmakaraka is Paramatman. That would be quite

> > delusional

> > > > > > > > > indeed...

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Even as paramatman is Omnipresent, it is not

> possible to

> > > > > say

> > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > any mortal being is apart from paramatman,

> whether it be

> > > > > > > Surya AK

> > > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > a specific context. In any case, no such equation

> about

> > > > > > > > > > > Atmakaraka and Paramatma has been made by me.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > The only question asked is about how " Surya "

> represents

> > > > > > > Ahamkara,

> > > > > > > > > > > devoid of any Chara Karaka Status whatsoever. You

> should

> > > > > have

> > > > > > > > > read my

> > > > > > > > > > > mail more thoroughly to have not missed the point

> > that was

> > > > > > > being

> > > > > > > > > made.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > ParamAtma is a collective of all the atmas.

> Concept of

> > > > > Chara

> > > > > > > > > > > karakas is only indicative of the separate

> identity

> > > > > > > (Ahamkara) of

> > > > > > > > > > > soul in the realm of relationships - led by the

> AK as a

> > > > > king

> > > > > > > > > leads a

> > > > > > > > > > > kingdom. So AK has the job of understanding the

> realm of

> > > > > > > > > > > relationships with other atmas and thereby help

> the

> > > > > > > attainment of

> > > > > > > > > > > individuals' understanding of ParamAtma.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Finally, about the points you made:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > As proved earlier, Surya as representing Buddhi

> of the

> > > > > eight-

> > > > > > > fold

> > > > > > > > > > > Prakriti of Krishna - is referred to as ParamAtma

> in a

> > > > > chart

> > > > > > > by

> > > > > > > > > > > Jyotish Texts, whatever be the Chara AtmaKaraka.

> That

> > > > > Buddhi/

> > > > > > > > > > > intelligence in creatures is Krishna is verified

> by Gita

> > > > > > > Chapter

> > > > > > > > > 10,

> > > > > > > > > > > sloka 22:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > " Of the Vedas, I am the Sama Veda; among the

> Devas, I am

> > > > > > > Indra; of

> > > > > > > > > > > the senses, I am the mind; and in living beings,

> I am

> > > > > > > > > intelligence. "

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > See, the devatas reside in svarga loka and this

> > > > > corresponds

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > nakshatras.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Jyotish tells that constellations are overlorded

> by

> > > > > luminary

> > > > > > > Moon

> > > > > > > > > > > and Moon derives its luminosity from Sun.

> Therefore,

> > as a

> > > > > > > > > consequence

> > > > > > > > > > > the concept of devatas associated with the swarga

> of

> > > > > > > > > constellations

> > > > > > > > > > > is derived from the luminosity of the radiant Sun

> > and any

> > > > > > > > > spiritual

> > > > > > > > > > > blessings obtained by worshipping devatas of

> Swarga loka

> > > > > are

> > > > > > > > > easily

> > > > > > > > > > > obtained by worshipping Sun as Paramatma.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Using that equation we could say that Aditya,

> > Shiva and

> > > > > > > Agni are

> > > > > > > > > > > > all Surya... Taking a line from your mail we are

> > > > > actually

> > > > > > > saying

> > > > > > > > > > > > that Vishnu being an aditya is Surya?

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Yes. Surya as ParamAtma is only ONE and manifests

> as

> > > > > > > multitude of

> > > > > > > > > > > Aditya, Shiva and Agni, depending upon the

> concept you

> > > > > see him

> > > > > > > > > > > aligned with, i.e. signs, or nakshatra or any

> other

> > > > > divisions

> > > > > > > > > > > respectively.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Obviously both of us know better than that.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Now we do.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > nitish

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa

> > > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>,

> > > > > > > > > > > Visti Larsen <visti@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > ??? ??? ??????

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Nitish, Namaskar

> > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for your reply.

> > > > > > > > > > > > Surely Surya is not Ahamkara, thats like saying

> that

> > > > > Rahu is

> > > > > > > > > Durga.

> > > > > > > > > > > > Using that equation we could say that Aditya,

> > Shiva and

> > > > > > > Agni are

> > > > > > > > > > > all

> > > > > > > > > > > > Surya... Taking a line from your mail we are

> actually

> > > > > saying

> > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > Vishnu

> > > > > > > > > > > > being an aditya is Surya? Obviously both of us

> know

> > > > > better

> > > > > > > than

> > > > > > > > > > > that.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > See, the devatas reside in svarga loka and this

> > > > > corresponds

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > nakshatras. The grahas through their transit of

> the

> > > > > > > nakshatras

> > > > > > > > > are

> > > > > > > > > > > > actually eclipsing them and thus certain forms

> of

> > > > > devatas

> > > > > > > come

> > > > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > > > > indicating by 1) the graha eclipsing. 2) the

> nakshatra

> > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > eclipses.

> > > > > > > > > > > > Since nakshatras are the basis of the rasi

> chart,

> > we can

> > > > > > > find

> > > > > > > > > based

> > > > > > > > > > > on

> > > > > > > > > > > > the state of a graha the actual devata

> represented by

> > > > > it.

> > > > > > > But

> > > > > > > > > its

> > > > > > > > > > > only a

> > > > > > > > > > > > representation as the Grahas themselves are not

> > devatas.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > The graha which 'represents' the bondage of

> > ahamkara is

> > > > > > > Surya,

> > > > > > > > > just

> > > > > > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > > > > the graha representing the bondage of the mind

> is

> > Moon.

> > > > > And

> > > > > > > > > among

> > > > > > > > > > > those

> > > > > > > > > > > > born with Surya as atmakaraka we have grades of

> those

> > > > > being

> > > > > > > > > fully

> > > > > > > > > > > > engrossed in ahamkara vs. having complete

> control of

> > > > > > > ahamkara.

> > > > > > > > > > > Divine

> > > > > > > > > > > > souls like Vivekananda, Ramakrishna Paramahamsa

> > and Sri

> > > > > > > Krishna

> > > > > > > > > > > being at

> > > > > > > > > > > > one end of the scale. With fellows like Donald

> Trump,

> > > > > Adolph

> > > > > > > > > Hitler

> > > > > > > > > > > > (exalted surya yuti AK) and others at the other

> end of

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > scale.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Now, to overcome these eight bondages, there

> are EIGHT

> > > > > ways

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > look

> > > > > > > > > > > at

> > > > > > > > > > > > God through which we can be freed. For the

> Ahamkara we

> > > > > must

> > > > > > > > > look at

> > > > > > > > > > > God

> > > > > > > > > > > > as Paramatman. This is the remedy itself. And

> the

> > > > > specific

> > > > > > > form

> > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > Shiva

> > > > > > > > > > > > who will help us realize this is Ishana for the

> Sun.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > So please don't make the equation that everyone

> with

> > > > > Surya

> > > > > > > > > > > atmakaraka is

> > > > > > > > > > > > Paramatman. That would be quite delusional

> indeed...

> > > > > Infact

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > concept

> > > > > > > > > > > > of Paramatma is the means to which the Surya

> > atmakaraka

> > > > > > > will be

> > > > > > > > > > > freed of

> > > > > > > > > > > > his/her ahamkara.

> > > > > > > > > > > > Looking forward to your reply.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Yours sincerely,

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > --

> > > > > > > > > > > > Visti Larsen - SJC Guru

> > > > > > > > > > > > Jaimini SJC - Denmark

> > > > > > > > > > > > email: visti@ <visti@>

> > > > > > > > > > > > For consultations, free mp3's and articles

> visit:

> > http:/

> > > > > /

> > > > > > > > > > > srigaruda.com

> > > > > > > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>

> > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>

> > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>

> > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>>

> > > > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>

> > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>> <http://

> > > > > srigaruda.com

> > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > yeeahoo_99 wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > || OM TAT SAT||

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Visti,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you prove that Ahamkara is represented

> by

> > > > > Surya ?

> > > > > > > > > Either

> > > > > > > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > > > > > > mean to say that Lord Krishna represents

> Ahamkara

> > > > > going by

> > > > > > > > > Gita

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Chapter 10 verse 21:

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > " Of the tweleve adityas I am vishnu, of all

> > > > > luminaries the

> > > > > > > > > radiant

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun , of the seven Maruts I am marichi, and

> of the

> > > > > > > > > constellations

> > > > > > > > > > > I am

> > > > > > > > > > > > > the Moon. "

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you saying that Sura/Surya group of

> planets are

> > > > > lead

> > > > > > > by

> > > > > > > > > Surya

> > > > > > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Ahamkara?

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you saying that the Vedas adoring Surya

> Narayan

> > > > > as a

> > > > > > > > > witness

> > > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > all actions (Sakshi) is an individuality

> creating

> > > > > Ahamkara

> > > > > > > > > > > Principle

> > > > > > > > > > > > > and not an impersonal transcendental

> intelligence

> > > > > > > principle?

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Please explain why Surya as Ahamkara should be

> > > > > referred

> > > > > > > to as

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Paramatma, the soul of all and `Jagadaikha

> > > > > chakshusay',

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > eye

> > > > > > > > > > > of the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > three worlds?

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > nitish

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa

> > > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Visti Larsen <visti@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ??? ??? ??????

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear List, Namaskar

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why hasn't anyone started talking about the

> eight

> > > > > > > bondages

> > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > the atma?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ahamkara (surya), Manas (chandra), Prakriti

> > (rahu),

> > > > > > > Akasha

> > > > > > > > > > > (guru), Agni

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > (mangala), Jala (shukra), Vayu (shani) and

> Prithvi

> > > > > > > (budha).

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > And how these eight bondages map into the

> eight

> > > > > spokes

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > kala

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > chakra, which are simultaneously the eight

> spokes

> > > > > of the

> > > > > > > > > > > anahata chakra.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Really any talk on the atma and its EIGHT

> > karakas is

> > > > > > > futile

> > > > > > > > > > > without any

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > of this.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yours sincerely,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > --

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visti Larsen - SJC Guru

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jaimini SJC - Denmark

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > email: visti@ <visti@>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > For consultations, free mp3's and articles

> visit:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>

> > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>

> > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>

> > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>>

> > > > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>

> > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>> <http://

> > > > > srigaruda.com

> > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>>> <http://

> > > > > > > > > srigaruda.com

> > > > > > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>

> > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>

> > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>

> > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com

> <http://srigaruda.com>

> > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>

> > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>

> > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>>

> > > > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>

> > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>> <http://

> > > > > srigaruda.com

> > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>

> > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>

> > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>

> > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>> <http://

> > > > > > > srigaruda.com

> > > > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>

> > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Promila Chitkara wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello Sharat,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you not think that " serving others "

> comes

> > > > > naturally

> > > > > > > > > only

> > > > > > > > > > > to a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > handful people? There maybe people who

> want to

> > > > > serve

> > > > > > > their

> > > > > > > > > > > families;

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > however, that is not selfless service in

> the

> > true

> > > > > > > sense of

> > > > > > > > > > > the term.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because we know very well that in

> happiness and

> > > > > > > > > contentment

> > > > > > > > > > > of our

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > families lies our happiness and growth!

> So it's

> > > > > purely

> > > > > > > > > > > selfish.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > P

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sharat <gidoc@>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa

> > > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thursday, August 30, 2007 2:23:04 AM

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Re: Re: Jupiter as AK

> (to

> > > > > Tijanaji,

> > > > > > > > > Nitish

> > > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > v_reality)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ||Namah Shivaya||

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sundeep,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Good observations, I was following this

> > thread as

> > > > > > > well but

> > > > > > > > > > > really

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > found the ' ego ' bit coming in too

> quickly.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > English words cant describe so well '

> ahankar '

> > > > > and '

> > > > > > > > > aham'

> > > > > > > > > > > which are

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > different and I agree that one cannot see

> this

> > > > > only in

> > > > > > > > > Sun AK.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > However

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as you say, Sun AK needs to learn to serve

> > others

> > > > > as

> > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > does

> > > > > > > > > > > not come

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > naturally to them. And you cant take '

> I ' away

> > > > > from

> > > > > > > them

> > > > > > > > > so

> > > > > > > > > > > easily

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > but perhaps if one wants to merge with

> > Paramatma,

> > > > > then

> > > > > > > > > the '

> > > > > > > > > > > I '

> > > > > > > > > > > > > will

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have to merge in to ' Him '.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sharat

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** vedicastrostudent

> > > > > <vedicastrostudent@>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *To:* sohamsa@ .com

> > > > > > > > > > > <sohamsa

> > > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 29, 2007 8:56 PM

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Subject:* Re: Jupiter as AK (to

> > > > > Tijanaji,

> > > > > > > > > Nitish

> > > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > v_reality)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Tijanaji and Nitish,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have been reading your exchange with

> interest

> > > > > in the

> > > > > > > > > hope of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > learning something new, but I find myself

> > > > > disagreeing

> > > > > > > > > subtly

> > > > > > > > > > > > > in the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > essence of what you say. In fact, deep

> down

> > in the

> > > > > > > > > exchange I

> > > > > > > > > > > find

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this statement made by " v_reality " which

> makes a

> > > > > lot

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > sense

> > > > > > > > > > > > > to me:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Can this also be understood at a

> different

> > level

> > > > > as

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > effacement

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of 'self' in a spiritual sense? " .

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here is my take - I have none of the

> scriptural

> > > > > > > knowledge

> > > > > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > > > > both

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have, only I have seen several Sun AK

> people: I

> > > > > dont

> > > > > > > > > think it

> > > > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > fair to say that Sun AK people are

> > egotistic. See,

> > > > > > > English

> > > > > > > > > > > > > also has

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a lot of words which have subtly different

> > > > > meanings,

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > right

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > one has to be used. An egotistic person is

> > one who

> > > > > > > has a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > exaggerated

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sense of self-importance. Almost everyone

> in

> > this

> > > > > > > world

> > > > > > > > > has

> > > > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (and you are fooling yourself if you deny

> > it), it

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > plain

> > > > > > > > > > > > > wrong to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > observe a person have Sun AK and

> simultaneously

> > > > > > > observe

> > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > > > he also

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > has an exaggerated sense of self

> importance and

> > > > > say

> > > > > > > " yes,

> > > > > > > > > > > that is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what the Sun AK does to him " . I can cite

> > hundreds

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > people I

> > > > > > > > > > > know

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > who are very self important and DONT have

> > Sun AK,

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > only

> > > > > > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > may not even have a strong Sun in their

> chart.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I personally think the only statement that

> > can be

> > > > > > > observed

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > repeatedly with Sun AK people is that

> they are

> > > > > > > egocentric

> > > > > > > > > i.e.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > their

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > view of the world is based on the

> individual

> > > > > rather

> > > > > > > than

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > society. They may or may not be

> egotistical

> > (i.e.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > egocentricity does

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not imply self importance) - the AK

> simply makes

> > > > > them

> > > > > > > go

> > > > > > > > > > > through

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > experiences in life such that their core

> self is

> > > > > > > tested.

> > > > > > > > > How

> > > > > > > > > > > they

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > respond to it depends probably on lots of

> other

> > > > > > > > > astrological

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > factors. The only statement I can safely

> make,

> > > > > based

> > > > > > > on

> > > > > > > > > pure

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > experience, is that Sun AK people are

> guided to

> > > > > > > divinity

> > > > > > > > > > > through

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > experiences of the self, consequently

> their view

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > egocentric.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I know one Sun AK woman (dont know if I

> can

> > share

> > > > > her

> > > > > > > > > data)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > who was

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > molested (by her own professor) and

> denied a

> > > > > higher

> > > > > > > degree

> > > > > > > > > > > > > that she

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > worked hard for, then get married and then

> > > > > divorced,

> > > > > > > then

> > > > > > > > > > > have her

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mom die of cancer in a rather painful

> way, then

> > > > > have

> > > > > > > her

> > > > > > > > > > > > > brother get

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > divorced in a messy lawsuit (and then

> leave her

> > > > > too),

> > > > > > > then

> > > > > > > > > > > > > (she) get

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > married again and her husband develop

> terminal

> > > > > cancer

> > > > > > > very

> > > > > > > > > > > soon

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > afterward. Net result: she cant seem to

> find a

> > > > > strong

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > consistent

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > support outside of herself - she has

> become self

> > > > > > > reliant

> > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > only

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > finds consistent happiness in

> meditation/reiki.

> > > > > She is

> > > > > > > > > > > probably

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > egotistical in some degree too, but not

> in any

> > > > > > > outstanding

> > > > > > > > > > > way at

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > all, and probably much less than all the

> people

> > > > > around

> > > > > > > > > her..

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Consequently, I really dispute the fact

> that Sun

> > > > > AK

> > > > > > > people

> > > > > > > > > > > must

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > learn to " reduce their ego " . That is

> simply a

> > > > > general

> > > > > > > > > lesson

> > > > > > > > > > > > > for all

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of mankind. Sun AK people's AK will guide

> them

> > > > > towards

> > > > > > > > > > > divinity

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > through experiences that make them focus

> on

> > > > > > > themselves and

> > > > > > > > > > > search

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for the truth: now that's the statement I

> find

> > > > > much

> > > > > > > more

> > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > point.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Comments?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sundeep

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>, nix

> nixen

> > > > > > > <nix_nixen@

> > > > > > > > > ..>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Nitish,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Only from one simple statement of

> yours " It is

> > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > always

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > possible for me... " i read that your AK

> must be

> > > > > > > nothing

> > > > > > > > > less

> > > > > > > > > > > than

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun. Am i right? If yes, then i think i`m

> on the

> > > > > right

> > > > > > > > > way of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > finding answers on my queries.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Warm regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tijana

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yeeahoo_99 <nitish.arya@ ...> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Tijana,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raja Yoga is the yoga of soul with

> paramatma -

> > > > > deep/

> > > > > > > > > shallow,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > material/spiritual - all kind of things

> have a

> > > > > basis

> > > > > > > > > only in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > paramatma. Thus, even Raja-bhanga yoga

> has a

> > > > > basis

> > > > > > > i.e.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > separation

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > soul from paramatma (which is illusory

> only

> > > > > though)

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > hence

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > material/spiritual loss depending on the

> > kind of

> > > > > > > karma

> > > > > > > > > > > involved.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As the lord of a sign, a planet rules a

> 12th

> > > > > part

> > > > > > > of the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > consciousness, relatively . Thus, in

> > part, it

> > > > > > > becomes

> > > > > > > > > its

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > responsibility to guide the affairs of

> that

> > > > > sign/

> > > > > > > house

> > > > > > > > > > > towards

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > fulfillment. You may explore it further.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is not always possible for me to

> answer to

> > > > > your

> > > > > > > > > specific

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > queries.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hopefully, in time, you will discover

> the

> > truth

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > your

> > > > > > > > > > > queries.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > best regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nitish

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>,

> > > > > " tijanadamjanovic "

> > > > > > > > > > > > > <nix_nixen@>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Nitish,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, all must serve. The questions

> raised in

> > > > > these

> > > > > > > > > > > discussions

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > on Atma

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karakas were on the specific way of

> serving.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If we say that Sun AK must learn

> > principles of

> > > > > > > artha

> > > > > > > > > > > > > shastra to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > serve,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the same stands for Ma and Ju AK? How

> to

> > > > > > > > > differentiate? I

> > > > > > > > > > > > > assume

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > are taking karakatvas of the houses

> into

> > > > > account

> > > > > > > also

> > > > > > > > > > > > > (2nd, 6th,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th)?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Sun/Raja gets service on the

> throne, but

> > > > > > > regarding

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > spirituality

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and Atma this is related to real Raja

> yoga

> > > > > whose

> > > > > > > > > deepest

> > > > > > > > > > > > > meaning

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > inseparable from 10th house of

> indriyas

> > (refer

> > > > > > > > > > > Vivekananda) .

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Only in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that sense we can talk of Janaka or

> the

> > > > > perfect

> > > > > > > King.

> > > > > > > > > What

> > > > > > > > > > > > > artha

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > shastra principles you had in mind?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Warm regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tijana

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>,

> > > > > > > > > > > " yeeahoo_99 " <nitish.arya@ >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > || Om TAT SAT ||

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Tijana,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To fulfill ones own dharma is

> what you

> > > > > > > probably

> > > > > > > > > had in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > mind

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mentioning Gita in this context.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Context that was intended is Gita

> Chapter

> > > > > > > 3,sloka

> > > > > > > > > 22.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All must work if the lord of the

> > cosmos has

> > > > > > > chosen

> > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > work.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thus,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is nothing specific that only

> SUN AK

> > > > > has

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > " serve " , all

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AKs

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " serve " .

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But, are you implying that Sun AK

> > gives a

> > > > > > > person

> > > > > > > > > akin

> > > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Janaka?!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, Sun AK gives a person akin to

> > Janaka -

> > > > > > > > > jivanmukta -

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > provided

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > enough effort has been put in.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you determing dharma based on

> this?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, Sun AK need not be 9th lord.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Will you advise Sun AK people to

> take

> > > > > > > > > Dhartharastra

> > > > > > > > > > > as an

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > example!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The attitude of service is seen

> from 6th

> > > > > house.

> > > > > > > Leo

> > > > > > > > > > > being a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dharma

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > trikona sign fulfills its purpose of

> > service

> > > > > > > through

> > > > > > > > > > > 10th

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > house of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Artha, which is 6th from it. So a

> Sun AK

> > > > > should

> > > > > > > > > learn

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > principles of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > artha shastra to serve.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, again, what Raja will hardly

> ever do

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > serving.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All souls have to " Serve " only as

> there is

> > > > > > > nothing

> > > > > > > > > else

> > > > > > > > > > > > > to be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > done

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in the three worlds because Krishna

> has

> > > > > already

> > > > > > > > > achieved

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > everything

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that is there to achieve in the

> three

> > > > > > > worlds(refer

> > > > > > > > > > > Gita).

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those who

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > do not serve, are reborn to learn to

> > serve,

> > > > > > > > > whatever be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > their

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AK.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda` s Dharm bhava

> > lord was

> > > > > Sun

> > > > > > > AK

> > > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > lagna in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dhanus

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (extraordinary combination for

> unselfish

> > > > > > > giving by

> > > > > > > > > > > > > itself).

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But do you think it`s a

> coincidence that

> > > > > His

> > > > > > > > > Master

> > > > > > > > > > > had

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > exalted

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn in 9th

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > bhava and Rahu AK? What do you

> > think, why

> > > > > even

> > > > > > > > > Swami

> > > > > > > > > > > > > needed

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > these?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One is not re-born after exhausting

> his

> > > > > karma/

> > > > > > > > > desires.

> > > > > > > > > > > Thus,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vivekananda (Rahu PiK) came here to

> > exhaust

> > > > > his

> > > > > > > > > > > remaining

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karma/

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > desires with Ramakrishna (Rahu AK).

> There

> > > > > is no

> > > > > > > more

> > > > > > > > > > > > > substance

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this than a past-life karmic

> > relationship of

> > > > > > > the two

> > > > > > > > > > > which

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > continued

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in this birth also.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NITISH

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>,

> > > > > > > " tijana " <nix_nixen@>

> > > > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Nitish,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your elaboration would be even

> more

> > > > > brilliant

> > > > > > > if

> > > > > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > > > > had

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > just answer

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my question.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To fulfill ones own dharma is

> what you

> > > > > > > probably

> > > > > > > > > had in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > mind

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mentioning

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gita in this context. But, are you

> > > > > implying

> > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > Sun

> > > > > > > > > > > AK

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gives a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > person akin to Janaka?! Are you

> > determing

> > > > > > > dharma

> > > > > > > > > > > based on

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this? Will

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you advise Sun AK people to take

> > > > > > > Dhartharastra as

> > > > > > > > > an

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > example!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, again, what Raja will hardly

> ever do

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > serving.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda` s Dharm bhava

> > lord was

> > > > > Sun

> > > > > > > AK

> > > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > lagna in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dhanus

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (extraordinary combination for

> unselfish

> > > > > > > giving by

> > > > > > > > > > > > > itself).

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But do

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > think it`s a coincidence that His

> Master

> > > > > had

> > > > > > > > > exalted

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in 9th

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > bhava and Rahu AK? What do you

> > think, why

> > > > > even

> > > > > > > > > Swami

> > > > > > > > > > > > > needed

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > these?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Warm regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tijana

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>,

> > > > > > > > > > > " yeeahoo_99 " <nitish.arya@ >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > || Om Tat Sat ||

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Tijana,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What is the thing that Raja

> will

> > > > > hardly

> > > > > > > ever

> > > > > > > > > do?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read up Gita, arthashastra and

> ancient

> > > > > texts

> > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > show

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > all a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raja has to do to ensure that

> his

> > > > > subjects

> > > > > > > are

> > > > > > > > > > > protected

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > progress

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > on the upward evolutionary path.

> > Look at

> > > > > > > > > krishna,

> > > > > > > > > > > Janaka

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ChandraGupta Maurya and you will

> > > > > understand

> > > > > > > > > whatever

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that " hardly

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ever do " equates to.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Otherwise, going by your

> statement, AK

> > > > > > > wouldn't

> > > > > > > > > do

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > anything

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > being

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the king of the horoscope and

> the rest

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > karakas (BK,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PiK,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Puk,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GK) i.e. his subjects will

> follow the

> > > > > suit!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, the mantra is " Shiva

> jnane

> > > > > Jiva

> > > > > > > > > > > Seva " (serving

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > every

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > being as the full manifestation

> of

> > God)

> > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Narendranath

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > received

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from his Master Ramakrishna who

> > had Sun

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > Aquarius.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Being Sun AK, Vivekananda had

> > developed

> > > > > > > peculiar

> > > > > > > > > > > > > sharpness

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > perception and assimilation that

> > > > > empowered

> > > > > > > him

> > > > > > > > > with

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > unusual power

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pick up 'the gems' from the

> talks

> > of his

> > > > > > > Master.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With Sun in Sagittarius, he

> could, as

> > > > > > > compared

> > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > others,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > easily

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'see' the deep meaning in the

> words of

> > > > > Sri

> > > > > > > > > > > Ramakrishna,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > even

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > though

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the Master told them in simple

> > language

> > > > > (Aq

> > > > > > > > > Sun),

> > > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > never as

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > preaching.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With its dispositor Jupiter in

> Libra,

> > > > > > > gradually

> > > > > > > > > > > Swami

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vivekananda

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > started assimilating tips and

> hints on

> > > > > > > practical

> > > > > > > > > > > Vedanta

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > could

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > benefit individual and

> collective life

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > society.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " ...For spiritual persons Sun

> as AK

> > > > > > > should be

> > > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter`s

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > signs

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (Shiva jnane...), otherwise

> it`s

> > very

> > > > > hard

> > > > > > > > > > > task... "

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Putting up statements like you

> have

> > > > > done is

> > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > > > > > wise. Sri

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yukteswar

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Giri, has Sun AK placed in Aries

> > and had

> > > > > > > > > attained

> > > > > > > > > > > > > highest

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > level

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > spirituality. Even if Sun AK is

> placed

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > Libra, it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > could

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > be the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > most

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > spiritual person.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AK shows the spiritual power of

> a sign

> > > > > over

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > rest of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > signs/

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets in the chart and this

> > spiritual

> > > > > > > power

> > > > > > > > > > > manifests

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > through

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dispositor of AK and its sign

> > placement.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NITISH

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>,

> > > > > > > " tijana " <nix_nixen@>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Su,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun is the Self. Its

> qualities are

> > > > > those

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > Raja

> > > > > > > > > > > > > (karaka

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > first house, lord of the 5th,

> dig

> > > > > bala in

> > > > > > > > > 10th).

> > > > > > > > > > > > > What is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thing

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that Raja will hardly ever

> do? The

> > > > > lesson

> > > > > > > > > that has

> > > > > > > > > > > > > to be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > learnt

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > by

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun AK is serving, in the

> highest

> > > > > sence it

> > > > > > > > > gives

> > > > > > > > > > > > > " Shiva

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > jnane

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shiva

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > seva " (service of man as God)-

> the

> > > > > divine

> > > > > > > > > lesson

> > > > > > > > > > > > > given to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > us by

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vivekananda (Sun AK). For

> spiritual

> > > > > > > persons

> > > > > > > > > Sun

> > > > > > > > > > > as AK

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > should be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter`s signs (Shiva

> jnane...),

> > > > > > > otherwise

> > > > > > > > > it`s

> > > > > > > > > > > very

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hard task.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Warm regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tijana

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> sohamsa@ .com

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>, " v

> > > > > > > > > reality " <reality_v@>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Bojan-ji

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for your reply.

> Much

> > > > > > > appreciated.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If I may ask another query

> re Sun

> > > > > AK.

> > > > > > > The

> > > > > > > > > lesson

> > > > > > > > > > > > > to be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > learnt

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun AK,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is the reduction of ego.

> Can this

> > > > > also

> > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > > understood

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > different level

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as the effacement of 'self'

> in a

> > > > > > > spiritual

> > > > > > > > > > > sense?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Su

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Bojan Vidakovic

> <janbovid@>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> sohamsa@

> > .com

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >To:

> sohamsa@ .com

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Re:

> Jupiter as

> > > > > AK

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Wed, 22 Aug 2007

> 08:33:22 -

> > > > > 0700

> > > > > > > (PDT)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >HARE RAMA KRISHNA

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Dear Su

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I would add that with Gu AK

> > person

> > > > > > > have to

> > > > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > > very

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > humble to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > all

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > spiritual

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >techers and natives, like

> > priests,

> > > > > > > gurus,

> > > > > > > > > > > teachers.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With Ma

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AK

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > person must

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >practise Ahumsa

> (nonviolence) ,

> > > > > with

> > > > > > > Ch the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > native is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > always

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > very

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > caring,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >and gives emotions but the

> > problem

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > they

> > > > > > > > > > > > > never

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > get

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > enough

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >themselves from other

> people. The

> > > > > > > person

> > > > > > > > > must

> > > > > > > > > > > learn

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lessons

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >people represented with

> AK. Ch /

> > > > > > > mother,

> > > > > > > > > Sy /

> > > > > > > > > > > > > father

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > everything those

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >grahas represent.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Take few examples of

> people you

> > > > > know

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > see

> > > > > > > > > > > it in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > praxix.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wishes,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Bojan

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Hari Om Tat Sat

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Rafal Gendarz

> <starsuponme@ >

> > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hraum namah adityaya

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Su,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Person should use a lot

> of glass

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > sing/

> > > > > > > > > hum

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > melodies.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rafal Gendarz

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > email: rafal@

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jyotish pages:

> www.rohinaa. com

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > v reality napisaÅ,(a):

> Dear

> > > > > Rafalji/

> > > > > > > > > Members

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is an interesting

> > discussion.

> > > > > > > Could

> > > > > > > > > we

> > > > > > > > > > > > > discuss

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > other

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AKs

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > too. I read

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in an article that

> natives with

> > > > > Moon

> > > > > > > as AK

> > > > > > > > > > > need to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > learn

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > more

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >caring

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and loving to others. But

> I know

> > > > > of a

> > > > > > > > > chart

> > > > > > > > > > > where

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > native

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > already

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >by

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nature very caring,

> loving and

> > > > > > > concerned

> > > > > > > > > about

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > others

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > since

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > young. So

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >what

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is the lesson to be

> learnt?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Su

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Rafal Gendarz

> > <starsuponme@

> > > > > > > wp.pl>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> sohamsa@

> > > > > .com

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >To:

> sohamsa@ .com

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Re:

> Jupiter

> > > > > as AK

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Wed, 22 Aug 2007

> 10:24:14

> > > > > +0200

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *hraum namah adityaya*

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Dear LN Kumar,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >With Ju AK person should

> > learn to

> > > > > > > respect

> > > > > > > > > > > others

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > knowledge

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >tradition,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >should be ready to learn

> from

> > > > > others.

> > > > > > > > > When Ju

> > > > > > > > > > > > > is in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kendra to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AK or is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >AK

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >himself then native

> thinks that

> > > > > he

> > > > > > > knows

> > > > > > > > > > > > > everything

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > now

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can share

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >His knowledge with

> everybody.

> > > > > Good

> > > > > > > > > teachers

> > > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > course

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > comes

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >AK-Jupiter- Natives, as

> this

> > > > > graha

> > > > > > > will

> > > > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > naturally in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karakamsa.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >With MA AK person should

> > learn to

> > > > > > > > > catalyze

> > > > > > > > > > > > > energies

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > through

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ZEN, TAI-CHI

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >or

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >other techniques, while

> with JU

> > > > > AK

> > > > > > > person

> > > > > > > > > > > should

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > learn to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > more humble

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >regarding knowledge. Of

> course

> > > > > person

> > > > > > > > > can be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > focused on

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter-

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karakas

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >like kids, spirituality,

> law,

> > > > > luck

> > > > > > > etc.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Mahadasa of AK brings

> lesson to

> > > > > us

> > > > > > > so its

> > > > > > > > > > > not so

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > easy

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > materially but

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >inspiring spiritually,

> so if

> > > > > Surya

> > > > > > > is in

> > > > > > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > placement

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AK

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > then it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >can

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >be not so bad as person

> is

> > > > > spiritual.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Rafal Gendarz

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Jyotish pages:

> www.rohinaa. com

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >narender kumar napisa?

> (a):

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>Dear Gurujans,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>Kindly throw some light

> on

> > > > > Jupiter

> > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>Atmakaraka and having

> > Jupiter as

> > > > > > > > > mahadasha.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>Respectful Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>LN Kumar

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>__________ __ _________

> > > > > _________

> > > > > > > > > _________

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________ _

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>Take the Internet to Go:

> > > > > Go

> > > > > > > puts

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internet in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > your

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pocket:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >mail,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>news, photos & more.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>http://mobile.

> > > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>

> > > > > > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>>

> > > > > > > > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./> <http://mobile./

> > > > <http://mobile./>>>

> > > > > > > > > > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>

> <http://mobile./

> > > > <http://mobile./>> <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>

> > > > > > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>

> <http://mobile./

> > > > <http://mobile./>> <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>

> > > > > > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>>> <http://mobile./

> > > > <http://mobile./> <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>>

> > > > > > > > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./> <http://mobile./

> > > > <http://mobile./>>>>>> /

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > go?refer= 1GNXIC

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >><http://mobile. <http://

> > > > > mobile./

> > > > > > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>>

> > > > > > > > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./> <http://mobile./

> > > > <http://mobile./>>>

> > > > > > > > > > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>

> <http://mobile./

> > > > <http://mobile./>> <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>

> > > > > > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>

> <http://mobile./

> > > > <http://mobile./>> <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>

> > > > > > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>>> <http://mobile./

> > > > <http://mobile./> <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>>

> > > > > > > > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./> <http://mobile./

> > > > <http://mobile./>>>>>> /

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > go?refer= 1GNXIC>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________

> _________

> > > > > > > _________

> > > > > > > > > > > > > _________

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Advertisement: It's

> simple! Sell

> > > > > your

> > > > > > > car

> > > > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > > > just

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > $30 at

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > CarPoint.com.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >au

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://a.ninemsn. <http://

> > > > > a.ninemsn./

> > > > > > > <http://a.ninemsn./ <http://a.ninemsn./>>

> > > > > > > > > <http://a.ninemsn./ <http://a.ninemsn./>

> > <http://a.ninemsn./

> > > > <http://a.ninemsn./>>>

> > > > > > > > > > > <http://a.ninemsn./ <http://a.ninemsn./>

> > > > <http://a.ninemsn./ <http://a.ninemsn./>> <http://

> > > > > a.ninemsn./

> > > > > > > <http://a.ninemsn./ <http://a.ninemsn./>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://a.ninemsn./ <http://a.ninemsn./>

> > > > <http://a.ninemsn./ <http://a.ninemsn./>>

> > > > > > > <http://a.ninemsn./ <http://a.ninemsn./>

> <http://a.ninemsn./

> > > > <http://a.ninemsn./>>> <http://

> > > > > > > a.ninemsn./

> > > > > > > > > <http://a.ninemsn./ <http://a.ninemsn./>

> > <http://a.ninemsn./

> > > > <http://a.ninemsn./>>>>>> com.au/b.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > aspx?URL= http%3A%2F%

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2Fsecure%

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >2Dau%2Eimrworldw ide%2Ecom%

> > > > > > > 2Fcgi%2Dbin%

> > > > > > > > > > > 2Fa%2Fci%

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5F450304%

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2Fet%

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5F2%

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >2Fcg%5F801459% 2Fpi%

> 5F1004813%

> > > > > > > > > 2Fai%5F859641 &

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _t=762955845 &

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _r=tig_AUG07 &

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_m=EXT

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Best wishes,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SJC Guru Bojan Vidakovic

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for articles and

> consultations

> > > > > visit

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >http://www.jataveda s.com

> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/

> > > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/> <http://www.jatavedas.com/

> > > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/>

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/ <http://www.jatavedas.com/>

> > > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/ <http://www.jatavedas.com/>>>

> > > > > > > > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/

> <http://www.jatavedas.com/>

> > > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/ <http://www.jatavedas.com/>>

> > > > > > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/ <http://www.jatavedas.com/>

> > > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/ <http://www.jatavedas.com/>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/

> <http://www.jatavedas.com/>

> > > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/ <http://www.jatavedas.com/>>

> > > > > > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/ <http://www.jatavedas.com/>

> > > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/ <http://www.jatavedas.com/>>>

> > > > > > > > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/

> <http://www.jatavedas.com/>

> > > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/ <http://www.jatavedas.com/>>

> > > > > > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/ <http://www.jatavedas.com/>

> > > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/ <http://www.jatavedas.com/>>>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >----------- ---------

> > --------- ---

> > > > > -

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Choose the right car based

> on

> > your

> > > > > > > needs.

> > > > > > > > > > > Check out

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Autos

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > new Car

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Finder tool.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________

> _________

> > > > > > > _________

> > > > > > > > > > > > > _________ _

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Advertisement: Make shopping

> > > > > exciting.

> > > > > > > Find

> > > > > > > > > > > what you

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > want at

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > www.eBay.com. au

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://a.ninemsn. com.au/

> <http://

> > > > > > > > > > > a.ninemsn.com.au/

> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/

> > <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/>

> > > > <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/ <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/>>

> > > > > > > <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/ <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/>

> > > > <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/ <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/>>>

> > > > > > > > > <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/ <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/>

> > > > <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/ <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/>>

> > > > > > > <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/ <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/>

> > > > <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/ <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/>>>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b.aspx?URL=http% 3A%2F%2Frover%

> > > > > > > 2Eebay%2Ecom%

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2Frover%2F1% 2F705%2D10129%

> > > > > 2D5668%2D323%

> > > > > > > > > > > 2F4%2F%3Fid%

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3D6 & _t=763807330 & _r=email_

> > taglines_

> > > > > > > > > EBAY & _m=EXT

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ---

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take the Internet to Go: Go puts

> the

> > > > > Internet

> > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > your

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pocket: mail, news, photos & more.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > ---------------------

> > > > > ----

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Be a better Globetrotter. Get better

> travel

> > > > > answers

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://

> > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://>

> > > > > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://

> > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://>>

> > > > > > > answers./

> > > > > > > > >

> > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./

> > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./>

> > > > > > >

> <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./

> > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./>>>

> > > > > > > > > dir/

> > > > > > > > > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://

> > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://>

> > > > > answers./

> > > > > > >

> <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./

> > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./>>

> > > > > > > dir/

> > > > > > > > >

> > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./

> > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./>

> > > > > dir/

> > > > > > >

> > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./dir/

> > > >

> <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./dir/>

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> >

> _ylc=X3oDMTI5MGx2aThyBF9TAzIxMTU1MDAzNTIEX3MDMzk2NTQ1MTAzBHNlYwNCQUJwa

> WxsYXJfTklfMzYwBHNsawNQcm9kdWN0X3F1ZXN0aW9uX3BhZ2U-?

> link=list & sid=396545469

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://

> > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://>

> > > > > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://

> > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://>>

> > > > > > > answers./

> > > > > > > > >

> > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./

> > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./>

> > > > > > >

> <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./

> > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./>>>

> > > > > > > > > dir/

> > > > > > > > > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://

> > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://>

> > > > > answers./

> > > > > > >

> <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./

> > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./>>

> > > > > > > dir/

> > > > > > > > >

> > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./

> > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./>

> > > > > dir/

> > > > > > >

> > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./dir/

> > > >

> <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./dir/>

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> >

> _ylc=X3oDMTI5MGx2aThyBF9TAzIxMTU1MDAzNTIEX3MDMzk2NTQ1MTAzBHNlYwNCQUJwa

> WxsYXJfTklfMzYwBHNsawNQcm9kdWN0X3F1ZXN0aW9uX3BhZ2U-?

> link=list & sid=396545469>>from

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > someone who knows.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Answers - Check it out.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

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Om Gurave Namah Dear Nitish, I did look mail-chain though i didn`t have to. The conlusion shows line of thinking. And it`s absurd. I don`t worry at all about anything knowing that there are Those who knew the Truth. So why not just follow them instead confusing yourself? With the statement like-Sun is Nirguna, koshas are indeed very far. Warm regards, Tijanayeeahoo_99 <nitish.arya wrote: || OM TAT SAT ||Dear Tijana,You need to look at the

mail-chains all over again, as thediscussion got forked along these two lines.1. Sun represents buddhi in 8-fold Apara prakriti is one statement. 2. Sun is beyond Guna is another.Also, please dont worry about the kosha as that is the third lineof discussion that i wouldnt like to get into here as am trying toclose on it with one pending mail on Karma.regards,nitishsohamsa , "tijanadamjanovic"<tijanadamjanovic wrote:>> Om Gurave Namah> Dear Nitish,> Just look again what you`re conlusion is-Sun represents Buddhi in > eight-fold apara PRAKRITI scheme and is beyond Guna! > It seems as if you hold Buddhi to be Purusha himself. If do then what > is he doing in the eigh-fold division? > Buddhi forms Vijnanamaya Kosha that is modification of Prakriti > (Viveka Chudamani 185); Buddhi

gives birth to Egoism (186) through > which he describes himself as Jiva. > "That which has been created by Buddhi and which is perceived in this > body as `I am this and that`-when that Egoism is totally destroyed > one attains Brahman." (301) > So Egoism IS the primordial cause of everything that is preceived as > different.> Warm regards,> Tijana> > > sohamsa , "yeeahoo_99" <nitish.arya@> wrote:> >> > || OM TAT SAT ||> > Dear Visti,> > > The Sun is not beyond the three Gunas... It is not Nir-guna. It > is > > > Sa-guna as it indeed exists in the sky. Among the three Guna it > is > > > > Nirguna doesnt' equate with non-existence but beyond Gunas.> > There is no sound basis in your statement of comparison as that

> way> > you wouldnt be able to prove Brahman to a materialist.> > If Sun would be Sattvic by nature, all those workers who toil day> > and night in the Sun and receive the most energy, would be most> > Sattvic beings.> > > > > As food mixed with poison is called poison, similarly the > > > Unmanifest, which is the primordial Cause, is called egoism since > it> > > is imbued with the impressions resulting from egoism; and egoism > is> > > the impelling force (of all). It is indeed seen in the world that > > > egoism is the impelling cause behind all endeavour./> > > > Never mind dear, egoism is not a force at all, otherwise the most> > egoistic person would become the most forceful of all. Also, egoism > is> > not the primordial cause of anything except sense of egoism . As >

far> > as food mixed with poison is concerned, ofcourse you are right, but > if> > you mean poison mixed with food, it is called poisoned "food" only.> > BTW, Unmanifest is not called egoism.> > > > >Cosmic intelligence exists as long as the creation exists, that > > > is why it is Hiranyagarbha. Hiranyagarbha has also been created. > > > Once there is no creation, then cosmic intelligence disappears.> > > > Ofcourse, cosmic intelligence disappears but dont tell me that God> > would use His inherent intelligence to first create cosmic> > intelligence, so it is not the created essence or Prakriti and hence> > beyond Gunas. As we see that God is more intelligent than that and> > cosmic intelligence disaapearing means, it is the last one to quit > the> > stage of creation. Thus, only God would have told you that

cosmic> > intelligence is the last one to disappear and the first one to > appear> > . Right!> > The cosmic intelligence being the first, and beyond Gunas, would > not> > cease to exist or operate because it is Nir-Guna. Still, it is the> > cause of the Gunas of Prakriti.> > > > I hope you will understand that Sun is beyond three Gunas, and it> > represents Buddhi in the eight-fold apara prakriti scheme. In either> > case, i leave it to your discrimination.> > > > regards,> > nitish> > > > sohamsa , Visti Larsen <visti@> wrote:> > >> > > ??? ??? ??????> > > > > > Dear Nitish, Namaskar> > > This is my reply to your second mail. A combined response would > make it >

> > easier for both of us.> > > > > > You wrote:> > > /Sun is beyond the three gunas of Prakriti - as u rightly pointed > out> > > with reference to sattvic, rajasic, and tamasic buddhi. It exists > as> > > the indestructible Cosmic intelligence aspect of God in creation > (TAT> > > - refer chapter 15) and is one of the three beings there are, the> > > destructible being (OM) and the uttermost being, Purushottama > (SAT)!/> > > > > > Visti: I didn't point this out, you misunderstood me. I was > trying to > > > justify that the context within which you were interpreting > Buddhi is > > > not justifiable from the perspective of Guna.> > > The Sun is not beyond the three Gunas... It is not Nir-guna. It > is > > > Sa-guna as it indeed exists in the sky.

Among the three Guna it > is > > > Satvic by nature, but that is not a good reason for equating it > with > > > Buddhi, as Buddhi need not be satvic.> > > There is also a concept of 'Satvic ahamkara' according to > > > Shankaracharya, then where does Rahu fit in this scheme if he > cannot be > > > satvic?> > > Instead if the scheme were to be dependent on the function of the> > planet > > > in causing bondage, then we can come a long way. I.e. the Moon is > a > > > satvic graha, but the mana of many incarnates in this world is > far from > > > that. Instead we must know that the Moon causes the bondage of > having a > > > mana, as it is through the contact with our mothers womb during > > > conception that the mana begins to be aware to begin with -> >

Varahamihira.> > > > > > The ahamkara existed BEFORE the mana existed, as the ahamkara > follows > > > the atma itself, and actually causes it to THINK that it is a > jeevatma. > > > Hence, Shankaracharya in his commentary describes the ahamkara > as: /By > > > ahamkara, egoism, is meant the Unmanifest, associated with > (Cosmic) > > > ignorrance. As food mixed with poison is called poison, similarly > the > > > Unmanifest, which is the primordial Cause, is called egoism since > it is > > > imbued with the impressions resulting from egoism; and egoism is > the > > > impelling force (of all). It is indeed seen in the world that > egoism is > > > the impelling cause behind all endeavour./> > > All the parenthesis' have been added by Swami Gambhirananda.> > > So,

based on this commentary it seems clear that the ahamkara is > the > > > first created from the shunya/unmanifest.> > > > > > Now, this is how Shankaracharya describes Buddhi: /By buddhih, > > > intellect, is meant the principle called mahat* which is the > source of > > > egoism./> > > */Mahat means Hiranyagarbha, or Cosmic Intelligence. - > Gambhirananda./> > > > > > This is the Buddhi which I have tried to tell you about! After > all, how > > > can any aspect of /prakriti /carry a purely auspicious quality if > > > prakriti exists only in this material abode, and NOT in the> > non-material > > > abode.> > > Now, see that Shankaracharya states that Buddhi is the actual > cause of > > > the ahamkara to be created! Doesn't this sound like the veil of

> Rahu > > > over the Atma?> > > > > > You wrote:> > > /In truth, there is never an eclipse for Sun because the Cosmic> > > intelligence is indestructible and hence never does it stop> > > functioning///invisible///eclipsed during a cycle of creation./> > > > > > Visti: Cosmic intelligence exists as long as the creation exists, > that > > > is why it is Hiranyagarbha. Hiranyagarbha has also been created. > Once > > > there is no creation, then cosmic intelligence disappears.> > > > > > Looking forward to your reply.> > > Yours sincerely,> > > > > > -- > > > Visti Larsen - SJC Guru> > > Jaimini SJC - Denmark> > > email: visti@ <visti@>> > > For consultations, free mp3's and articles

visit: > http://srigaruda.com > > > <http://srigaruda.com>> > > > > > yeeahoo_99 wrote:> > > >> > > > || OM TAT SAT ||> > > > Dear Visti,> > > > Hope you are fine. You dont seem to be replying to my mail. Is > it> > > > so badly written?> > > > My only objective was to bring out the truth for all including> > > > myself, but, in doing so, the strong and long held beliefs of > people> > > > get hurt.> > > > Am happy, that while writing these mails, i learnt much more > than> > > > what is visible, and this learning cannot happen in isolation. > The> > > > reason for my joining this list is to stay in touch.> > > > Somehow, i

always felt that people dont respond to the> > > > mails/queries i send. May be it happens with everybody.> > > >> > > > Just wanted to finish with this one incomplete statement from my> > > > last mail:> > > >> > > > "Karma is the only bandhana that Gita mentions, as Sri Krishna> > > > couldn't have possibly missed/ignored the rest of the bandhanas > as it> > > > is His Apara-Prakriti.> > > >> > > > Sun is beyond the three gunas of Prakriti - as u rightly > pointed out> > > > with reference to sattvic, rajasic, and tamasic buddhi. It > exists as> > > > the indestructible Cosmic intelligence aspect of God in > creation (TAT> > > > - refer chapter 15) and is one of the three beings there are, > the> > > > destructible

being (OM) and the uttermost being, Purushottama > (SAT)!> > > >> > > > For purposes of learning souls on path to self-knowledge, Sun, > in> > > > Jyotish, is seen as identified with Sattvic Guna destructible > Prakriti> > > > for the deepest reasons**, thus creating a cause for it to be > eclipsed> > > > by Tamo Guna of Rahu (Ahamkara causing bodily rebirth).> > > >> > > > In truth, there is never an eclipse for Sun because the Cosmic> > > > intelligence is indestructible and hence never does it stop> > > > functioning/invisible/eclipsed during a cycle of creation. An > eclipse> > > > of Sattva Guna of Sun can only have the deepest learning for the> > > > jeevatma as the acquisition of ultimate wisdom to go beyond the > Gunas> > > >

of destructible Prakriti."> > > >> > > > ** A sharp intelligence is a blessing of God and a privilege > given to> > > > Human, that wise use for upliftment to Godhood, mediocre use for> > > > fulfillment of their desires and ignorant use for self-> destruction.> > > >> > > > regards,> > > > nitish> > > >> > > > sohamsa <sohamsa%> 40>, > > > > Visti Larsen <visti@> wrote:> > > > >> > > > > -------> > > > > Re: Jupiter as AK (to Visti, Tijanaji, Nitish and> > v_reality)> > > > > Sun, 09 Sep 2007 14:41:01 -0000> > > > > csna25

<csna25@>> > > > > Visti Larsen <visti@>> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > || OM TAT SAT ||> > > > > Dear Visti,> > > > > > Visti: Why does it include those who practice the sohamsa-> mantra> > > > > yajna?> > > > > Sohamsa is the mantra of breath - initiation a soul receives > from> > > > > Sri Krishna to progress on the path to evolution. This is the> > > > > uninterrrupted only living parampara there is.> > > > >> > > > > >Visti: How can I know what Krishna meant? Thats why i cited > Adi> > > > > >Shankaras commentary, and now you are giving your own > commentary.> > > > > > Should i believe in your commentary or that of Adi Shankara?> > > >

>> > > > > Chapter 6 sloka 5:> > > > > uddharedatmanatmanam natmanamavasadayet> > > > > atmaiva hyatmano bandhuratmaiva ripuratmanah -5-> > > > >> > > > > > You are equating Buddhi with a spiritual faculty, and this > is your> > > > > > basis for equating Buddhi with the Sun. Your intent is > clear in> > > > > > this. Then why didn't you equate Buddhi with Jupiter or > Ketu?> > > > > > Surely Ketu is much more spiritual than Sun.> > > > >> > > > > In eightfold-Prakriti, Jupiter represents Akash Tattwa.> > > > > Ketu is not there in the scheme of Eightfold-Apara-prakriti, > as it> > > > > would rather show a state after liberation from Prakriti.> > > > > Rahu, being the

literal/zodiacal/mathematical opposite of > Ketu,> > > > > has Zero-affinity towards liberation of a being (as you > wrote, it> > > > > causes rebirth).> > > > > Sun is the only graha that performs the role of Buddhi as a> > > > > spiritual faculty.> > > > >> > > > > > Visti: Again, just because a PURE buddhi enhances ones > spiritual> > > > > > efforts, it doesn't mean it is signified by the Sun.> > > > >> > > > > In the eight-fold scheme, Sun as PURE buddhi directs spiritual> > > > > effort after Rahu has done its role of bringing the soul back > to a> > > > > physical body.> > > > >> > > > > > Again, the basis of this statement itself is doubtful, due > to> >

which> > > > > > you would have to equate Ketu with Buddhi based on your> > > > > > statements. Based on what you have written how can you > classify> > > > > > Buddhi as a Bandhana?> > > > >> > > > > Karma is the only bandhana that Gita mentions.> > > > >> > > > > > Visti: I don't think my Jyotish Guru is wrong. Also how do > you> > > > > > justify that the bandhana has to be decided based on wisdom > of the> > > > > > graha? Since when do Moon and Rahu not make spiritual > efforts?> > Moon> > > > > > in eighth house makes the person meditate and perform > kundalini> > > > > > yoga, whilst Rahu in tenth makes the person go on > pilgrimages and> > > > > > visit tirthas.

The Sun doesn't even meditate, he just has> > faith and> > > > > > goes to temple. Its Ketu who causes meditation, and its in > the> > > > > > junction with Jupiter that he does so through a Guru, and > its> > > > > > junction with Venus does so indendently.> > > > >> > > > > Sun forms Shiva yoga with Ketu, and is exalted in > constellation of> > > > > Ketu. Mind doesnt make any spiritual effort but needs to be> > > > > controlled (6:34).> > > > >> > > > > From KathaUpanishad (III.Up.I.2.3. -13 & 14.)> > > > > 'The Chariot of the Body': The five horses represent the five > senses> > > > > (tongue, eyes, nose, ears and skin). The rein symbolises the > mind,> > > > > the driver is the

intelligence while the passenger is the > jeevatma.> > > > >> > > > > http://fixedreference.org/2006-Wikipedia-CD-> Selection/images/46/ > > > > <http://fixedreference.org/2006-Wikipedia-CD-> Selection/images/46/>> > > > > 4642.jpg> > > > >> > > > > In Mahabharata war scenario, Sri Krishna as driver of Arjunas'> > > > > chariot is the guiding intelligence of the jeevatma and> > controller of> > > > > the reins of the mind. This is the most perfect example of > Guru-> > > > > Shishya relationship there is!> > > > >> > > > > regards,> > > > >

Nitish> > > > >> > > > > sohamsa <sohamsa%> 40>, > > > > Visti Larsen <visti@> wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > ??? ??? ??????> > > > > >> > > > > > Dear Nitish, Namaskar> > > > > > Thank you for your reply.> > > > > >> > > > > > You wrote:> > > > > > / Gita is the commentary of Parampara of Sri Krishna - > Arjuna,> > which> > > > > > includes everybody that practices the sohamsa mantra yajna. > Thus,> > > > > you> > > > > > can benefit by reading it as it is the only living > parampara till> > > > > > date.>

> > > > > /> > > > > >> > > > > > Visti: Why does it include those who practice the sohamsa-> mantra> > > > > yajna?> > > > > >> > > > > > The Gita revived the Parampara's through Adi Shankara, as > he was> > > > > the one> > > > > > who brought it to the world, and it is one of his bhasyas. > But the> > > > > Gita> > > > > > itself is not a parampara, but the cause of all the other> > > > > paramparas to> > > > > > exist. Each Shankaracharya Mutt is a Parampara in itself and> > > > > continues> > > > > > to preach the vedas.> > > > > >> > > > > > Your statement denounces the importance of these Mutts. Are > you>

> > > > > practicing the Sohamsa mantra-yajna through Sri Sri Ravi > Shankar?> > > > > He was> > > > > > taught by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi and its well known that the > origin> > > > > of> > > > > > Maharishi is the Jyotirmutt, thus making your Parampara the > same.> > > > > >> > > > > > /You wrote:> > > > > > A person who isn't fit to distinguish between what he ought > or> > > > > > ought not to do; do you think he is fit to practice > spirituality?> > > > > Sri> > > > > > Krishna is not really telling arjuna to practice materiality> > > > > anyways.> > > > > > /> > > > > >> > > > > > /If you don't understand the role of buddhi from

this sloka,> > Gita is> > > > > > full of slokas that talk about buddhi as a spiritual faculty> > (Sun),> > > > > > unlike Ahamkara (Rahu)./> > > > > >> > > > > > Visti: How can I know what Krishna meant? Thats why i cited > Adi> > > > > > Shankaras commentary, and now you are giving your own > commentary.> > > > > Should> > > > > > i believe in your commentary or that of Adi Shankara?> > > > > >> > > > > > You are equating Buddhi with a spiritual faculty, and this > is your> > > > > basis> > > > > > for equating Buddhi with the Sun. Your intent is clear in > this.> > > > > > Then why didn't you equate Buddhi with Jupiter or Ketu? > Surely> > Ketu>

> > > > is> > > > > > much more spiritual than Sun.> > > > > >> > > > > > /Chapter 3 sloka 1:> > > > > > Arjuna asks:> > > > > > "If Buddhi is greater than karma, Janardana> > > > > > Then why give me the order to be in this intense fight?"> > > > > >> > > > > > Chapter 3 sloka 42:> > > > > > Sri Krishna replies:> > > > > > "In the body the senses are superior> > > > > > >From the senses the mind is greater> > > > > > >From the mind the intellect (buddhi) is superior and> > > > > > Beyond the intellect is the Atman as the witness"/> > > > > >> > > > > > Visti: The word used in this sloka is not 'witness' but> >

'superior'.> > > > > Also> > > > > > the word 'Atma' is not from the translation, but from> > > > > Shankaracharyas> > > > > > commentary. The Atma is superior to the intellect, and in > this> > case> > > > > it> > > > > > refers to Angirasa's definition of Antaratma, and is > called 'the> > > > > self'> > > > > > according to Shankara.> > > > > >> > > > > > /Chapter 4 sloka 5 tells that many births of mine and yours > have> > > > > > passed.> > > > > > Chapter 6 sloka 43:> > > > > >> > > > > > "Acquiring wisdom (BUDDHI-SAMYOGAM) revived from the > previous body> > > > > > thereafter he endeavors once again for

perfection."/> > > > > >> > > > > > Visti: Again, just because a PURE buddhi enhances ones > spiritual> > > > > > efforts, it doesn't mean it is signified by the Sun.> > > > > >> > > > > > /> One could just as easily justify that since the main > cause of> > > > > > > rebirth is Rahu, the stronger the bondage of Rahu, so > also the> > > > > > > stronger the bondage of Buddhi and thus the eclipse> > > > > > > of the Sun/spirituality.> > > > > >> > > > > > Do you still have doubts that Sun refers to Buddhi? Rahu> > (Ahamkara)> > > > > > and Moon (manas) don't make spiritual efforts.> > > > > > Rahu cannot be considered to be wise, in this context, that >

its> > > > > > "rebirth-causing-//bondage-quality" be used to achieve > perfection> > > > > and> > > > > > liberation in this birth. It is only good at helping a> > rebirth, not> > > > > > helping to liberate - thus it is not doing the function of> > Buddhi by> > > > > > 6:43.> > > > > > /> > > > > >> > > > > > Visti: I don't think my Jyotish Guru is wrong. Also how do > you> > > > > justify> > > > > > that the bandhana has to be decided based on wisdom of the > graha?> > > > > > Since when do Moon and Rahu not make spiritual efforts? > Moon in> > > > > eighth> > > > > > house makes the person meditate and perform kundalini yoga, >

whilst> > > > > Rahu> > > > > > in tenth makes the person go on pilgrimages and visit > tirthas. The> > > > > Sun> > > > > > doesn't even meditate, he just has faith and goes to > temple. Its> > > > > Ketu> > > > > > who causes meditation, and its in the junction with Jupiter> > that he> > > > > does> > > > > > so through a Guru, and its junction with Venus does so> > > > > independently.> > > > > >> > > > > > Again, the basis of this statement itself is doubtful, due > to> > which> > > > > you> > > > > > would have to equate Ketu with Buddhi based on your > statements.> > > > > Based> > > > > > on what you have written

how can you classify Buddhi as a> > Bandhana?> > > > > > Rahu is extremely useful at helping liberation... In fact i > can> > > > > justify> > > > > > how each planet can help liberation, but thats not a fair> > basis for> > > > > > justifying their Bandhanas.> > > > > >> > > > > > /How many of the 6 billion people, all born due to Rahu-> bond are> > > > > > using this birth to make a spiritual effort?> > > > > > /> > > > > >> > > > > > Visti: How about Ramakrishna Paramahamsa? How about Srila> > > > > Prabhupada?> > > > > > They are the causes of the largest spiritual missions in > India and> > > > > > abroad. I think they made great spiritual effort.

They have> > Rahu as> > > > > > atmakaraka!> > > > > >> > > > > > Sun on the other hand causes problems with ahamkara in the > person.> > > > > > Citing Sanjay Rath:> > <http://www.srath.com/lessons/advanced/ak2.htm > > > > <http://www.srath.com/lessons/advanced/ak2.htm>>> > > > > >> > > > > > "*Planets as ätmakäraka: *1. Sun as AK indicates the native> > > > > has to> > > > > > learn to overcome his ego and should become humble." refer:> > > > > > http://srath.com/lessons/advanced/ak.htm > > > >

<http://srath.com/lessons/advanced/ak.htm>> > > > > >> > > > > > "Ahankära refers to its independent identity and is the > false ego> > > > > (*not> > > > > > Freud's ego*). This is false because the identity is not > permanent> > > > > and> > > > > > it is an ego as it helps to identify the object and > differentiate> > > > > it> > > > > > from the other bodies/creatures of its class or family. > This is> > > > > > represented by the Sun in astrology." refer:> > > > > > http://www.srath.com/lessons/advanced/ak2.htm > > > > <http://www.srath.com/lessons/advanced/ak2.htm>> > > > > >> > > > > > Visti: note the careful reference to /ego /not being > equated with> > > > > > Freud's understanding of Ego.> > > > > >> > > > > > /Chapter 7 verse 10:> > > > > > "O Arjuna, try to understand me as the eternal origin of all> > living> > > > > > entities. I am the (BuddhirBuddhiMataA/ /smi) intelligence > in the> > > > > > intelligent, and the brilliance of the brilliant."> > > > > >> > > > > > Chapter 10 sloka 10:> > > > > > "One who is always united with Me (see 6:18) and who > meditates> > upon> > > > > Me> > > >

> > with love -- I bestow him with buddhiyoga (meaning > stillness) by> > > > > > which, he is the one who attains Me."> > > > > >> > > > > > Chapter 15 sloka 20:> > > > > > (Etad Buddhva Buddhimaan syat KritaKrityascha bharata)> > > > > > "Understand with your intelligence this most secret science > that I> > > > > > have explained to you and become wise, and thereupon be > successful> > > > > in> > > > > > all your duties."> > > > > >> > > > > > Chapter 18 sloka 30:> > > > > > " One who knows engagement and withdrawal, work and work > not to be> > > > > > done, fear and non-fear, bondage and liberation -- this > type of> > > > > > (Buddhi) intellect is

sattvic."> > > > > >> > > > > > Rahu cannot be Sattvic!> > > > > > /> > > > > >> > > > > > Visti: Does that mean Sun can be tamasic? How about all > those who> > > > > don't> > > > > > have satva budhi? Are you saying they don't have a buddhi > because> > > > > its> > > > > > not satvic? Your justification doesn't hold water.> > > > > >> > > > > > /Chapter 18, sloka 57:> > > > > > "Dedicate all action to Me from the (chetasa)heart, > extinguish> > > > > > wholly, be devoted to Me, take recourse in buddhi-yoga and> > keep your> > > > > > consciousness always on Me."> > > > > >> > > > > > 18:30, 10:10 --

there is nothing like Ahamkara Yoga, but > Buddhi-> > > > > > Yoga. With Sun as ParamAtma, one would have a yoga with him > as> > > > > Buddhi.> > > > > >> > > > > > Thus, if buddhi is all that important all along from 2nd to > 18th> > > > > > chapter, in Gita, lets understand it as a function of Surya > with> > > > > > Sattvic Buddhi. /> > > > > >> > > > > > Visti: If Satvic Budhi is the Sun, then is Sun also > Tamasic/impure> > > > > > Budhi? You are only dealing with the highest aspect of > Buddhi in> > > > > these> > > > > > slokas, and not speaking of Buddhi as a bandhana.> > > > > >> > > > > > Since our entire discussion revolves around Sun, Moon and

> Rahu> > > > > which are> > > > > > the causes of the eclipse, i will quote a translation of> > > > > Dakshinamurti> > > > > > Stotra:> > > > > >> > > > > > rähugrastadiväkarendusadåço mäyäsamäcchädanät sanmätraù> > > > > > karaëopasaàharaëato yo'bhütsuñuptaù pumän |> > > > > >> > > > > > prägasväpsamiti prabodhasamaye yaù pratyabhijïäyate tasmai> > > > > > çrégurumürtaye nama idaà çrédakñiëämürtaye || 6||> > > > > >> > > > > > The Sun (atma) is eclipsed when the Moon (Mana) conjoins it> > and the> > > > > Moon> > > > > > is in the latitude as the orbital plane of the earth where > the> > > > > > intersection points

are the nodes (Rahu & Ketu). It is this > Rahu> > > > > that is> > > > > > said to cause the eclipse. Simiarly, the Rahu of our lives > is our> > > > > own> > > > > > desires and sice Rahu is a node of the Moon (mana), the> > desires are> > > > > the> > > > > > creation of the mind. It is the coming together or > conjunction of> > > > > the> > > > > > atma (Sun), mana (Moon) and desires (Rahu) that causes an > eclipse> > > > > or> > > > > > birth itself.> > > > > >> > > > > > Visti: The key lies in this, namely that Rahu being a node > of the> > > > > Moon> > > > > > is the cause of desires created in the mind, and very much >

deals> > > > > with> > > > > > the mind.> > > > > >> > > > > > Further; ATMA means self. There are three types of atma > according> > > > > to> > > > > > Angirasa, namely: Atma, Antaratma and Paramatma. The first > is the> > > > > body> > > > > > itself and its senses. The second is the abode of the > individual> > > > > soul or> > > > > > Jeevatma, and finally the Paramatma is God.> > > > > >> > > > > > So when Parasara and other seers stated that the Sun is the > atma,> > > > > they> > > > > > also refer to the entire gamut of definitions of the self.> > Ahamkara> > > > > is a> > > > > > function of

'thinking' one is the self, and is the bondage > that> > > > > caused> > > > > > the Jeevatma to separate from the Paramatma to begin with! > This is> > > > > > defined in the cosmology where the ahamkara merged with the> > various> > > > > > Gunas to cause the bhutas, etc. to manifest.> > > > > >> > > > > > Looking forward to your reply.> > > > > > Yours sincerely,> > > > > >> > > > > > --> > > > > > Visti Larsen - SJC Guru> > > > > > Jaimini SJC - Denmark> > > > > > email: visti@ <visti@>> > > > > > For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: http://> > > > > srigaruda.com> > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>> > > > > >> > > > > > yeeahoo_99 wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > > || OM TAT SAT ||> > > > > > > Dear Visti,> > > > > > > Gita is the commentary of Parampara of Sri Krishna - > Arjuna,> > which> > > > > > > includes everybody that practices the sohamsa mantra > yajna.> > Thus,> > > > > you> > > > > > > can benefit by reading it as it is the only living > parampara> > till> > > > > > > date.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Visti: I don't have this translation. Is this an > inference?> > > >

> > > > The last two words used here are: buddhinaashaat-> praNashyati => > > > > > > > destruction of buddhi causes one to be > lost/dissapear/vanish/> > > > > > > perish. > Did you infer that it was spirituality which > perished?> > > > > To> > > > > > > this Adi> > > > > > > > Shankara comments: /Indeed, a man continues to be > himself so> > > > > long> > > > > > > as > his mind remains fit to distinguish between what he> > ought to> > > > > and> > > > > > > > ought not to do./> > > > > > >> > > > > > > A person who isn't fit to distinguish between what he > ought or> > > > > > > ought not to do; do you think he is

fit to practice> > spirituality?> > > > > Sri> > > > > > > Krishna is not really telling arjuna to practice > materiality> > > > > anyways.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > If you don't understand the role of buddhi from this > sloka, Gita> > > > > is> > > > > > > full of slokas that talk about buddhi as a spiritual > faculty> > > > > (Sun),> > > > > > > unlike Ahamkara (Rahu).> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Chapter 3 sloka 1:> > > > > > > Arjuna asks:> > > > > > > "If Buddhi is greater than karma, Janardana> > > > > > > Then why give me the order to be in this intense fight?"> > > > > > >> > >

> > > > Chapter 3 sloka 42:> > > > > > > Sri Krishna replies:> > > > > > > "In the body the senses are superior> > > > > > > >From the senses the mind is greater> > > > > > > >From the mind the intellect (buddhi) is superior and> > > > > > > Beyond the intellect is the Atman as the witness"> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Chapter 4 sloka 5 tells that many births of mine and > yours have> > > > > > > passed.> > > > > > > Chapter 6 sloka 43:> > > > > > >> > > > > > > "Acquiring wisdom (BUDDHI-SAMYOGAM) revived from the> > previous body> > > > > > > thereafter he endeavors once again for perfection."> > > > > > >> >

> > > > > > One could just as easily justify that since the main > cause of> > > > > > > > rebirth is Rahu, the stronger the bondage of Rahu, so > also the> > > > > > > > stronger the bondage of Buddhi and thus the eclipse> > > > > > > > of the Sun/spirituality.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Do you still have doubts that Sun refers to Buddhi? Rahu> > > > > (Ahamkara)> > > > > > > and Moon (manas) don't make spiritual efforts.> > > > > > > Rahu cannot be considered to be wise, in this context, > that its> > > > > > > "rebirth-causing-bondage-quality" be used to achieve > perfection> > > > > and> > > > > > > liberation in this birth. It is only good at helping a

> rebirth,> > > > > not> > > > > > > helping to liberate - thus it is not doing the function of> > Buddhi> > > > > by> > > > > > > 6:43.> > > > > > > How many of the 6 billion people, all born due to Rahu-> bond are> > > > > > > using this birth to make a spiritual effort?> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Chapter 7 verse 10:> > > > > > > "O Arjuna, try to understand me as the eternal origin of > all> > > > > living> > > > > > > entities. I am the (BuddhirBuddhiMataAsmi) intelligence > in the> > > > > > > intelligent, and the brilliance of the brilliant."> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Chapter 10 sloka 10:>

> > > > > > "One who is always united with Me (see 6:18) and who > meditates> > > > > upon Me> > > > > > > with love -- I bestow him with buddhiyoga (meaning > stillness) by> > > > > > > which, he is the one who attains Me."> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Chapter 15 sloka 20:> > > > > > > (Etad Buddhva Buddhimaan syat KritaKrityascha bharata)> > > > > > > "Understand with your intelligence this most secret > science> > that I> > > > > > > have explained to you and become wise, and thereupon be> > > > > successful in> > > > > > > all your duties."> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Chapter 18 sloka 30:> > > > > > > " One who knows

engagement and withdrawal, work and work > not> > to be> > > > > > > done, fear and non-fear, bondage and liberation -- this > type of> > > > > > > (Buddhi) intellect is sattvic."> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Rahu cannot be Sattvic!> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Chapter 18, sloka 57:> > > > > > > "Dedicate all action to Me from the (chetasa)heart, > extinguish> > > > > > > wholly, be devoted to Me, take recourse in buddhi-yoga > and keep> > > > > your> > > > > > > consciousness always on Me."> > > > > > >> > > > > > > 18:30, 10:10 -- there is nothing like Ahamkara Yoga, but > Buddhi-> > > > > > > Yoga. With Sun as

ParamAtma, one would have a yoga with > him as> > > > > Buddhi.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Thus, if buddhi is all that important all along from 2nd > to 18th> > > > > > > chapter, in Gita, lets understand it as a function of > Surya with> > > > > > > Sattvic Buddhi.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > regards,> > > > > > > Nitish> > > > > > >> > > > > > > sohamsa > > <sohamsa%40>> > > > > <sohamsa%40>,> > > > > > > Visti Larsen <visti@> wrote:> > > > > > > >> > > > > >

> > ??? ??? ??????> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Dear Nitish, Namaskar> > > > > > > > Thank you for your mail.> > > > > > > > You mention a Parampara below. Please provide the name > of the> > > > > > > Parampara> > > > > > > > and its commentary for our benefit so we can read more. > In> > > > > > > answering> > > > > > > > your points, i will be using the Gita's commentary by > Adi> > > > > Shankara> > > > > > > -> > > > > > > > translated by Svami Gambhirananda.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > /1.) About Buddhi:> > > > > > > > Chapter 2 sloka 52, 53 -->> > > >

> > > > "When Buddhi penetrates beyond darkness of delusion, > then you> > > > > shall> > > > > > > > be indifferent about the matters heard and to-be-heard./> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > /."> > > > > > > > "..Buddhi becoming securely anchored in soul bliss, one> > attains> > > > > > > yoga."> > > > > > > > /> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > /Chapter 2 sloka 62,63 -->> > > > > > > > DECAY OF BUDDHI causes ANNIHILATION of spiritual life./> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Visti: I don't have this translation. Is this an> > inference? The> > > > > > > last two> > > > > >

> > words used here are: buddhinaashaat-praNashyati => > destruction of> > > > > > > buddhi> > > > > > > > causes one to be lost/dissapear/vanish/perish. Did you > infer> > > > > that> > > > > > > it was> > > > > > > > spirituality which perished? To this Adi Shankara > comments: /> > > > > > > Indeed, a> > > > > > > > man continues to be himself so long as his mind remains > fit to> > > > > > > > distinguish between what he ought to and ought not to > do./> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > /NOTE:- Jyotish tells us that Sprituality is related to> > Sun more> > > > > > > than> > > > > > > > Rahu, as seen

in those with AK in kendra to Sun.> > > > > > > > /> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Visti: All eight of the bandhanas once tightened cause > loss of> > > > > > > > spirituality, not just Buddhi. If a student has so much> > ahamkara> > > > > > > that he> > > > > > > > believes he knows everything, then he will not read > books and> > > > > again> > > > > > > > spirituality is destroyed. If a one is fully engrossed > in his/> > > > > her> > > > > > > desire> > > > > > > > for procreation then again the spirituality is ruined. > The> > > > > latter> > > > > > > is> > > > > > > > explained in

Chapter 2, sloka 60. So all eight bandhas > cause> > > > > this> > > > > > > > problem, and not just Buddhi.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > /Chapter 2 sloka 65 -->> > > > > > > > Buddhi of the blissful man soon becomes firmly > established (in> > > > > the> > > > > > > > self).> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Chapter 5 sloka 20 -->> > > > > > > > "The Knower of spirit, abiding in Supreme being, with > STHIRA> > > > > BUDDHI,> > > > > > > > free from delusion, is thus neither jubiliant at > pleasant> > > > > > > experiences> > > > > > > > nor downcast by unpleasant experiences./

/"/> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Visti: You are very right to give Buddhi such a high > pedestal> > > > > among> > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > eight bandhas, because indeed the worst Bandha is that > of> > Buddhi> > > > > > > just as> > > > > > > > Rahu is the main karaka for all Bandhana of the soul.> > Overcoming> > > > > > > this,> > > > > > > > all the other bandhas break easily. This is the reason > Rahu is> > > > > the> > > > > > > main> > > > > > > > cause of rebirth. This is why the Shiva purana> > > > > (Satirudrasamhita)> > > > > > > states> > > > > > >

> that the Shiva form who is able to control the bondage > of Rahu> > > > > is> > > > > > > > Pashupati. Shiva then explains that Pashupati is> > responsible for> > > > > > > > breaking all wordly bondages (pashupAshanikR^intanaM).> > > > > > > > According to Shiva, Ishana is the form of Shiva which > controls> > > > > > > Surya.> > > > > > > > More below.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > /2.) About AHAMKARA:> > > > > > > > Chapter 2 sloka 71 -->> > > > > > > > "That person realizes peace who, relinquishing all > desires,> > > > > exists> > > > > > > > without craving and is UNIDENTIFIED WITH AHAMKARA > (mortal

ego)> > > > > and> > > > > > > > its sense of mine-ness."/> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Visti: Adi Shankara comments that this actually refers > to one> > > > > > > becoming> > > > > > > > one with Brahman i.e. enlightenment. Among the forms of > Shiva> > > > > which> > > > > > > > specifically give this enlightenment > (sandIpayajjagatsarvam -> > > > > > > enlightens> > > > > > > > the entire universe), we see that the form of Ishana is > talked> > > > > > > about.> > > > > > > > Note that the word used is /SandIpa/, and this happens > to> > be the> > > > > > > Guru of> > > >

> > > > Sri Krishna (SandIpani).> > > > > > > > However, this sloka from the Gita is not strictly for> > ahamkara,> > > > > but> > > > > > > for> > > > > > > > all the eight bandhas.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > /3.) About MANAS JOINED WITH BUDDHI:> > > > > > > > Chapter 2 sloka 51:> > > > > > > > "Those whose minds are joined to wisdom (BUDDHI-> YUKTA)/ /,> > > > > having> > > > > > > > abandoned action's fruit, Freed thus from bondage to > rebirth,> > > > > they> > > > > > > > attain the state beyond sorrow."> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Also refer Chapter 13 slokas 1 -

11:> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > "...Indifference to sense objects, And absence of > egotism> > > > > > > > (NIRHAMKARA)/ /;...Constant evenmindedness in Desired > and> > > > > undesired> > > > > > > > events...With single-minded yoga,...Constant in > knowledge> > of the> > > > > > > Self,> > > > > > > > Seeing the goal of truth-knowledge--> > > > > > > > This is said to be true knowledge.> > > > > > > > The contrary is ignorance."> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Chapter 8 sloka 9 refers> > > > > > > > "He who meditates on the Seer, the Ruler, The ancient, > subtler> > > > > than>

> > > > > > > the atom, support Of all, Whose form is inconceivable > and> > > > > RADIANT> > > > > > > > LIKE THE SUN and beyond darkness."> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > This proves beyond doubt and questioning the central > role of> > > > > > > > BUDDHI in the spiritual growth of a devotee like > ARJUNA. Now,> > > > > this> > > > > > > > role is not played by AHAMKARA or MANAS independently.> > > > > > > > Thus, Sun as dispeller of darkness is the only correct> > > > > assignment of> > > > > > > > the role of Buddhi.> > > > > > > > /> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Visti: Your inference implies that

only one of the eight> > bandhas> > > > > > > deal> > > > > > > > with spiritual growth or its lacking. One could just as > easily> > > > > > > justify> > > > > > > > that since the main cause of rebirth is Rahu, the > stronger the> > > > > > > bondage> > > > > > > > of Rahu, so also the stronger the bondage of Buddhi and> > thus the> > > > > > > eclipse> > > > > > > > of the Sun/spirituality. Thus for this reason we > worship Sri> > > > > > > > Dakshinamurti on the day of the eclipse to be released> > from this> > > > > > > > Bandhana and get enighenment. This is what the Sadhu's> > practice.> > > > > > > >> >

> > > > > > Note the word Buddhi is used in three different ways in> > the gita> > > > > > > > according to Adi Shankara and Gambhiranandas > translation, viz.> > > > > i)> > > > > > > buddhi> > > > > > > > as a bandha, ii) samatva buddhi (pure buddhi) and iii)> > buddhi as> > > > > > > > enlightenment, and cannot be mixed arbitrarily.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > /Getting back to the eightfold Prakriti, Sun (Buddhi), > Moon> > > > > (MANAS)> > > > > > > > and Rahu (Ahamkara) is the only correct version as per > the> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > GURU-SHISYA PARAMPARA> > > > > > > > from> > >

> > > > > Sri Krishna-Arjuna/> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > The reason why in Jyotish most associate the Sun with > Ahamkara> > > > > in> > > > > > > > general terms, is because of the story of Vivasvan and > Sanjna> > > > > > > > (memory/recollection). In the story Vivasvans rays > become so> > > > > > > bright, and> > > > > > > > he became so knowledgeable (and self absorbed) that > Sanjna> > left> > > > > and> > > > > > > only> > > > > > > > left her shadow (false recollection) behind.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > He only could reunite with Sanjna once his father in-law> > reduced> >

> > > > > the> > > > > > > > rays of Vivasvan, and he could himself take on a form > that> > > > > Sanjna> > > > > > > was> > > > > > > > pleased with.> > > > > > > > So the story of Vivasvan/Surya tells us about this > nature of> > > > > > > Ahamkara.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Looking forward to your reply.> > > > > > > > Yours sincerely,> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > --> > > > > > > > Visti Larsen - SJC Guru> > > > > > > > Jaimini SJC - Denmark> > > > > > > > email: visti@ <visti@>> > > > > > > > For consultations, free

mp3's and articles visit: > http://> > > > > > > srigaruda.com> > > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com> > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > yeeahoo_99 wrote:> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > || OM TAT SAT||> > > > > > > > > Dear Visti,> > > > > > > > > Lets look at what Sri Krishna tells Arjuna in Gita > about> > > > > Buddhi,> > > > > > > > > Manas and Ahamkara.> > > > > > > >

>> > > > > > > > > 1.) About Buddhi:> > > > > > > > > Chapter 2 sloka 52, 53 -->> > > > > > > > > "When Buddhi penetrates beyond darkness of delusion,> > then you> > > > > > > shall> > > > > > > > > be indifferent about the matters heard and to-be-> heard.."> > > > > > > > > "..Buddhi becoming securely anchored in soul bliss, > one> > > > > attains> > > > > > > yoga."> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Chapter 2 sloka 62,63 -->> > > > > > > > > DECAY OF BUDDHI causes ANNIHILATION of spiritual life.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > NOTE:- Jyotish tells us that

Sprituality is related > to Sun> > > > > more> > > > > > > than> > > > > > > > > Rahu, as seen in those with AK in kendra to Sun.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Chapter 2 sloka 65 -->> > > > > > > > > Buddhi of the blissful man soon becomes firmly > established> > > > > (in the> > > > > > > > > self).> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Chapter 5 sloka 20 -->> > > > > > > > > "The Knower of spirit, abiding in Supreme being, with > STHIRA> > > > > > > BUDDHI,> > > > > > > > > free from delusion, is thus neither jubiliant at > pleasant> > > > > > >

experiences> > > > > > > > > nor downcast by unpleasant experiences."> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > 2.) About AHAMKARA:> > > > > > > > > Chapter 2 sloka 71 -->> > > > > > > > > "That person realizes peace who, relinquishing all > desires,> > > > > exists> > > > > > > > > without craving and is UNIDENTIFIED WITH AHAMKARA > (mortal> > > > > ego) and> > > > > > > > > its sense of mine-ness."> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > 3.) About MANAS JOINED WITH BUDDHI:> > > > > > > > > Chapter 2 sloka 51:> > > > > > > > > "Those whose minds are joined to wisdom (BUDDHI->

YUKTA),> > having> > > > > > > > > abandoned action's fruit, Freed thus from bondage to> > rebirth,> > > > > they> > > > > > > > > attain the state beyond sorrow."> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Also refer Chapter 13 slokas 1 - 11:> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > "...Indifference to sense objects, And absence of > egotism> > > > > > > > > (NIRHAMKARA);...Constant evenmindedness in Desired and> > > > > undesired> > > > > > > > > events...With single-minded yoga,...Constant in > knowledge of> > > > > the> > > > > > > Self,> > > > > > > > > Seeing the goal of

truth-knowledge--> > > > > > > > > This is said to be true knowledge.> > > > > > > > > The contrary is ignorance."> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Chapter 8 sloka 9 refers> > > > > > > > > "He who meditates on the Seer, the Ruler, The ancient,> > subtler> > > > > > > than> > > > > > > > > the atom, support Of all, Whose form is inconceivable > and> > > > > RADIANT> > > > > > > > > LIKE THE SUN and beyond darkness."> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > This proves beyond doubt and questioning the central > role of> > > > > > > > > BUDDHI in the spiritual growth of a devotee like >

ARJUNA.> > Now,> > > > > this> > > > > > > > > role is not played by AHAMKARA or MANAS independently.> > > > > > > > > Thus, Sun as dispeller of darkness is the only correct> > > > > assignment> > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > > the role of Buddhi.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Getting back to the eightfold Prakriti, Sun (Buddhi), > Moon> > > > > (MANAS)> > > > > > > > > and Rahu (Ahamkara) is the only correct version as > per the> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > GURU-SHISYA PARAMPARA> > > > > > > > > from> > > > > > > > > Sri Krishna-Arjuna> > >

> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > regards,> > > > > > > > > Nitish> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > sohamsa > > > > <sohamsa%40>> > > > > <sohamsa%40>> > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>,> > > > > > > > > Visti Larsen <visti@> wrote:> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > ??? ??? ??????> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Dear Nitish, Namaskar> > > > > > > > > > Thank you for this mail.> >

> > > > > > > > I will be answering the main points of your mail. > The main> > > > > > > points> > > > > > > > > being> > > > > > > > > > the foundation of the facts/statements you present.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > /You wrote:> > > > > > > > > > So lets begin with Eightfold-Prakriti of Krishna, > your> > > > > reference> > > > > > > > > > point itself is incorrect. Gita Chapter 7 sloka 4> > states:...> > > > > > > > > > /> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > I cannot disagree, as i had wrongly written prakriti> > > > > instead of> > > >

> > > > > buddhi.> > > > > > > > > > Siva purana confirms this:> > > > > > > > > > */Siva Purana, Vishvesvara Samhita,4/*> > > > > > > > > > /Prakriti /comprises of buddhi, ahamkara, > gunaatmaka and> > > > > > > > > panchatanmatra.> > > > > > > > > > All these combined are called Prakriti.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > /You wrote:> > > > > > > > > > Neither the five tattwas, Buddhi nor Manah can be > assigned> > > > > to> > > > > > > Rahu> > > > > > > > > > and thus Ahamkara is the only thing that can > logically be> > > > > > > assigned> > > >

> > > > > to> > > > > > > > > > Rahu. So the correct version of eightfold> > representation of> > > > > > > Prakriti> > > > > > > > > > is:...> > > > > > > > > > /> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Mana and Buddhi can indeed both be attributed to > Rahu, as> > > > > Rahu> > > > > > > is> > > > > > > > > well> > > > > > > > > > known to show the desires of the mind. Here the > Parampara> > > > > comes> > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > > our> > > > > > > > > > help and specifically defines Buddhi to be assigned > to>

> Rahu,> > > > > > > > > whereas> > > > > > > > > > Mana and Ahamkara have been assigned to Moon and Sun> > > > > > > respectively.> > > > > > > > > So> > > > > > > > > > why does Sun represent Ahamkara?> > > > > > > > > > aham = self. kaara=causative/doer. The cause of > self in> > > > > other> > > > > > > words.> > > > > > > > > > Monier Williams translates this as:> > > > > > > > > > /m. conception of one's individuality , self-> consciousness> > > > > > > ChUp. & c.> > > > > > > > > > the making of self , thinking of self , egotism > MBh. & c./> > > > > > >

> > >> > > > > > > > > > Where Rahu caused the desire which led to rebirth, > it is a> > > > > given> > > > > > > > > that> > > > > > > > > > the Sun is the actual creator of everything, and > with that> > > > > > > creation> > > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > ahamkaara is one of the negative effects of the > same. But> > > > > this> > > > > > > is> > > > > > > > > just> > > > > > > > > > my justification the traditions teachings.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > /You wrote:> > > > > > > > > > There is ONLY ONE bondage and

not Eight of them. > Ahamkara> > > > > > > doesn't> > > > > > > > > > cause bondage of atma as you have written, but > Karma alone> > > > > > > causes> > > > > > > > > > bondage of atma, and is not a part of eightfold-> prakriti> > > > > > > referred> > > > > > > > > > above. Refer Gita Chapter 2 verse 39 as follows:> > > > > > > > > > /> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > The sloka you qoute is right, but your inference... > Heres> > > > > what> > > > > > > Siva> > > > > > > > > > Purana says:/> > > > > > > > > > /> > > > > > > >

> >> > > > > > > > > > */Siva Purana, Vishvesvara Samhita,2/*> > > > > > > > > > Because of remaining in eight types of bandhana, the> > soul is> > > > > > > called> > > > > > > > > > /Jeeva/. When a person is freed from these > bondages, the> > > > > person> > > > > > > is> > > > > > > > > > called /Mukta.> > > > > > > > > > /> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > /*Siva Purana, Vishvesvara Samhita,3*> > > > > > > > > > /Emancipation is the control of these bondages of > prakriti> > > > > etc.> > > > > > > One> > > > > > > > > >

trapped in these is called /Jeeva/, and one freed > from> > them> > > > > is> > > > > > > > > called> > > > > > > > > > /Mukta./> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > */Siva Purana, Vishvesvara Samhita,4/*> > > > > > > > > > /Prakriti /comprises of buddhi, ahamkara, > gunaatmaka and> > > > > > > > > panchatanmatra.> > > > > > > > > > All these combined are called Prakriti.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > */Siva Purana, Vishvesvara Samhita,5/*> > > > > > > > > > These eight bondages are the body. The activities > of this> > > > > body> > > > > > >

are> > > > > > > > > > called the /karmas/.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Later in sloka 8 Suta explains that due to karmas > the soul> > > > > is> > > > > > > bound> > > > > > > > > by> > > > > > > > > > these eight bondages. So these are indeed the > bondages and> > > > > they> > > > > > > are> > > > > > > > > > created due to Karma. The issue being that the > bondages> > > > > > > themselves> > > > > > > > > can> > > > > > > > > > lead one to recreate the same karma again and > again, just> > > > > as one> > > > > > >

> > desire> > > > > > > > > > leads to a thousand more.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > /You wrote:> > > > > > > > > > ParamAtma is a collective of all the atmas. Concept > of> > Chara> > > > > > > > > > karakas is only indicative of the separate identity> > > > > (Ahamkara)> > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > > > soul in the realm of relationships - led by the AK > as> > a king> > > > > > > leads a> > > > > > > > > > kingdom. So AK has the job of understanding the > realm of> > > > > > > > > > relationships with other atmas and thereby help the> > > > > attainment>

> > > > > > of> > > > > > > > > > individuals' understanding of ParamAtma./> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Yes, once Sun atmakaraka's understand this within> > > > > themselves,> > > > > > > they> > > > > > > > > > should teach it to others.> > > > > > > > > > Looking forward to your reply.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Yours sincerely,> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > --> > > > > > > > > > Visti Larsen - SJC Guru> > > > > > > > > > Jaimini SJC - Denmark> > > > > > > > > > email: visti@

<visti@>> > > > > > > > > > For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: > http://> > > > > > > > > srigaruda.com> > > > > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com> > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>> > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com> > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > >

> > > > > > yeeahoo_99 wrote:> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > || Om TAT SAT ||> > > > > > > > > > > Dear Visti,> > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for a good mail.> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Surely Surya is not Ahamkara, thats like saying > that> > > > > Rahu is> > > > > > > > > Durga.> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > How are you so sure about it? The question still > remains> > > > > > > > > unanswered> > > > > > > > > > > i.e. how do you prove that Surya represents > Ahamkara?> > >

> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > The graha which 'represents' the bondage of> > ahamkara is> > > > > > > Surya.> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > This brings up another question: i.e. if there is > a> > > > > bondage of> > > > > > > > > > > Ahamkara at all?> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Ahamkar is referred in Gita chapter 3, verse 27 as> > > > > follows:> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > "All activities are being enacted by the senses > of the> > > > > > > (Prakriti)> > > > > > > >

> > > material nature without exception; but the > unrealized,> > > > > > > deluded by> > > > > > > > > > > (AhamKara) false identification of being the > body, thus> > > > > > > thinks:> > > > > > > > > "I am> > > > > > > > > > > the doer"> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Ahamkara (surya), Manas (chandra), Prakriti > (rahu),> > > > > > > > > Akasha(guru),> > > > > > > > > > > > Agni(mangala), Jala (shukra), Vayu (shani) and > Prithvi> > > > > > > (budha)> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > So lets begin with

Eightfold-Prakriti of Krishna, > your> > > > > > > reference> > > > > > > > > > > point itself is incorrect. Gita Chapter 7 sloka 4> > states:> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > "Earth, water, fire, air, ether, Manah, Buddhi, > and> > > > > Ahamkara;> > > > > > > thus> > > > > > > > > > > these are the eightfold divisions of my Prakriti."> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Neither the five tattwas, Buddhi nor Manah can be> > > > > assigned to> > > > > > > Rahu> > > > > > > > > > > and thus Ahamkara is the only thing that can> > logically be> > >

> > > > > > assigned to> > > > > > > > > > > Rahu. So the correct version of eightfold > representation> > > > > of> > > > > > > > > Prakriti> > > > > > > > > > > is:> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Buddhi (surya), Manah (chandra), Ahamkara (rahu),> > > > > > > Akasha(guru),> > > > > > > > > > > Agni(mangala), Jala (shukra), Vayu (shani) and > Prithvi> > > > > (budha)> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Now, to overcome these eight bondages, there > are EIGHT> > > > > ways> > > > > > > to> > > >

> > > > > look> > > > > > > > > > > > at God through which we can be freed. For the > Ahamkara> > > > > we> > > > > > > must> > > > > > > > > > > > look at God as Paramatman.> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > There is ONLY ONE bondage and not Eight of them.> > Ahamkara> > > > > > > doesn't> > > > > > > > > > > cause bondage of atma as you have written, but > Karma> > alone> > > > > > > causes> > > > > > > > > > > bondage of atma, and is not a part of eightfold-> prakriti> > > > > > > referred> > > > > > > > > > > above. Refer Gita

Chapter 2 verse 39 as follows:> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > "O Arjuna! What has been declared to you this > spiritual> > > > > > > > > intelligence> > > > > > > > > > > (Buddhih) according to the Samkhya (the path of> > > > > knowledge).> > > > > > > Now> > > > > > > > > > > listen to the teaching of Yoga (the path of > selfless> > > > > action> > > > > > > > > combined> > > > > > > > > > > with devotion) by practising which the bondage of> > Karma is> > > > > > > > > overcome."> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Also,

Chapter 3 verse 9 verifies that Karma causes> > > > > bondage:> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > "O son of Kunti! In this world all actions, > unless they> > > > > are> > > > > > > done> > > > > > > > > as> > > > > > > > > > > an offering to God (or as Yajna), become causes of> > > > > bondage.> > > > > > > > > > > Therefore, work for the sake of God without > personal> > > > > > > attachments."> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Chapter 3 verse 31 cross-verfies it as follows:> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >

> "Whoever follow this teaching of mine, with their > minds> > > > > full> > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > > faith> > > > > > > > > > > and free from disparagement, they also are > released from> > > > > the> > > > > > > > > bondage> > > > > > > > > > > of reactions from Actions (Karma)."> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > That liberation is attained by knowing the correct> > way of> > > > > > > acting> > > > > > > > > is> > > > > > > > > > > given in Chapter 4 verse 16:> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >

> "What is (karma) action and what is (akarma) 'non-> > > > > action', is> > > > > > > a> > > > > > > > > > > subject regarding which even the wise are > perplexed. I> > > > > shall> > > > > > > > > > > therefore speak to you about (Karma)work, by > knowing> > which> > > > > > > one is> > > > > > > > > > > liberated from evil (or the life of bondage in > Samsara)"> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > The reason for liberation is written as Chapter 5> > verse 3:> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > "It should be known, O mighty-armed one! That one > who> > >

> > neither> > > > > > > > > > > disdains nor desires fruits of actions, should be > known> > > > > as one> > > > > > > > > > > established in renunciation. Certainly, that > person> > being> > > > > free> > > > > > > > > from> > > > > > > > > > > all dualities is easily liberated from bondage."> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > For the Ahamkara we must look at God as > Paramatman.> > > > > This is> > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > > > remedy itself. And the specific form of Shiva> > > > > > > > > > > > who will help us realize this is Ishana for the

> Sun.> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Please understand that Ahamkara is not a disease > that we> > > > > look> > > > > > > for> > > > > > > > > > > remedies to it. It is the eightfold prakriti of > Krishna.> > > > > > > > > Otherwise,> > > > > > > > > > > mind, buddhi, and pancha-tattwas will also need > to be> > > > > > > remedied.> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > And among those born with Surya as atmakaraka > we have> > > > > > > grades of> > > > > > > > > > > > those being fully engrossed in ahamkara vs. > having>

> > > > complete> > > > > > > > > control> > > > > > > > > > > > of ahamkara.> > > > > > > > > > > I am not sure what you mean by complete control of> > > > > Ahamkara,> > > > > > > > > > > because one who has complete control of his manas> > and has> > > > > > > buddhi> > > > > > > > > > > devoted to Krishna - realizes his divine nature of> > > > > > > > > "AhamBrahmaAsmi"> > > > > > > > > > > and gets freed from the bondage of Karma.> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Divine souls like Vivekananda, Ramakrishna> > > > > > > > > > > >

Paramahamsa and Sri Krishna being at one end of > the> > > > > scale.> > > > > > > With> > > > > > > > > > > > fellows like Donald Trump, Adolph Hitler > (exalted> > surya> > > > > > > yuti AK)> > > > > > > > > > > >and others at the other end of the scale.> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Liberation is caused by the development of> > divine/demoniac> > > > > > > nature,> > > > > > > > > > > Chapter 16 Verse 5:> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > "The divine nature is considered the cause of > liberation> > > > > and> > > > >

> > the> > > > > > > > > > > demoniac nature the cause of bondage. Grieve not, > O> > son of> > > > > > > Pandu!> > > > > > > > > You> > > > > > > > > > > are born of the divine nature."> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > So please don't make the equation that everyone > with> > > > > Surya> > > > > > > > > > > > atmakaraka is Paramatman. That would be quite> > delusional> > > > > > > > > indeed...> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Even as paramatman is Omnipresent, it is not > possible to> > > > > say> > > >

> > > that> > > > > > > > > > > any mortal being is apart from paramatman, > whether it be> > > > > > > Surya AK> > > > > > > > > in> > > > > > > > > > > a specific context. In any case, no such equation > about> > > > > > > > > > > Atmakaraka and Paramatma has been made by me.> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > The only question asked is about how "Surya" > represents> > > > > > > Ahamkara,> > > > > > > > > > > devoid of any Chara Karaka Status whatsoever. You > should> > > > > have> > > > > > > > > read my> > > > > > > > > > > mail more

thoroughly to have not missed the point> > that was> > > > > > > being> > > > > > > > > made.> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > ParamAtma is a collective of all the atmas. > Concept of> > > > > Chara> > > > > > > > > > > karakas is only indicative of the separate > identity> > > > > > > (Ahamkara) of> > > > > > > > > > > soul in the realm of relationships - led by the > AK as a> > > > > king> > > > > > > > > leads a> > > > > > > > > > > kingdom. So AK has the job of understanding the > realm of> > > > > > > > > > > relationships with other atmas and thereby help

> the> > > > > > > attainment of> > > > > > > > > > > individuals' understanding of ParamAtma.> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Finally, about the points you made:> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > As proved earlier, Surya as representing Buddhi > of the> > > > > eight-> > > > > > > fold> > > > > > > > > > > Prakriti of Krishna - is referred to as ParamAtma > in a> > > > > chart> > > > > > > by> > > > > > > > > > > Jyotish Texts, whatever be the Chara AtmaKaraka. > That> > > > > Buddhi/> > > > > > > > > > >

intelligence in creatures is Krishna is verified > by Gita> > > > > > > Chapter> > > > > > > > > 10,> > > > > > > > > > > sloka 22:> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > "Of the Vedas, I am the Sama Veda; among the > Devas, I am> > > > > > > Indra; of> > > > > > > > > > > the senses, I am the mind; and in living beings, > I am> > > > > > > > > intelligence."> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > See, the devatas reside in svarga loka and this> > > > > corresponds> > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > > the> > > > > >

> > > > > > nakshatras.> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Jyotish tells that constellations are overlorded > by> > > > > luminary> > > > > > > Moon> > > > > > > > > > > and Moon derives its luminosity from Sun. > Therefore,> > as a> > > > > > > > > consequence> > > > > > > > > > > the concept of devatas associated with the swarga > of> > > > > > > > > constellations> > > > > > > > > > > is derived from the luminosity of the radiant Sun> > and any> > > > > > > > > spiritual> > > > > > > > > > > blessings obtained by worshipping devatas of > Swarga

loka> > > > > are> > > > > > > > > easily> > > > > > > > > > > obtained by worshipping Sun as Paramatma.> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Using that equation we could say that Aditya,> > Shiva and> > > > > > > Agni are> > > > > > > > > > > > all Surya... Taking a line from your mail we are> > > > > actually> > > > > > > saying> > > > > > > > > > > > that Vishnu being an aditya is Surya?> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Yes. Surya as ParamAtma is only ONE and manifests > as> > > > > > > multitude of> > > > > >

> > > > > Aditya, Shiva and Agni, depending upon the > concept you> > > > > see him> > > > > > > > > > > aligned with, i.e. signs, or nakshatra or any > other> > > > > divisions> > > > > > > > > > > respectively.> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Obviously both of us know better than that.> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Now we do.> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > regards,> > > > > > > > > > > nitish> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa > > > > <sohamsa%40>> > > > > <sohamsa%40>> > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>> > > > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>,> > > > > > > > > > > Visti Larsen <visti@> wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > ??? ??? ??????> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Nitish, Namaskar> > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for your reply.> > > > > > > > > > > > Surely Surya is not Ahamkara, thats

like saying > that> > > > > Rahu is> > > > > > > > > Durga.> > > > > > > > > > > > Using that equation we could say that Aditya,> > Shiva and> > > > > > > Agni are> > > > > > > > > > > all> > > > > > > > > > > > Surya... Taking a line from your mail we are > actually> > > > > saying> > > > > > > > > that> > > > > > > > > > > Vishnu> > > > > > > > > > > > being an aditya is Surya? Obviously both of us > know> > > > > better> > > > > > > than> > > > > > > > > > > that.> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >

> > > > > > > > > See, the devatas reside in svarga loka and this> > > > > corresponds> > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > > > nakshatras. The grahas through their transit of > the> > > > > > > nakshatras> > > > > > > > > are> > > > > > > > > > > > actually eclipsing them and thus certain forms > of> > > > > devatas> > > > > > > come> > > > > > > > > as> > > > > > > > > > > > indicating by 1) the graha eclipsing. 2) the > nakshatra> > > > > it> > > > > > > > > eclipses.> > > > > > > > > > > > Since

nakshatras are the basis of the rasi > chart,> > we can> > > > > > > find> > > > > > > > > based> > > > > > > > > > > on> > > > > > > > > > > > the state of a graha the actual devata > represented by> > > > > it.> > > > > > > But> > > > > > > > > its> > > > > > > > > > > only a> > > > > > > > > > > > representation as the Grahas themselves are not> > devatas.> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > The graha which 'represents' the bondage of> > ahamkara is> > > > > > > Surya,> > > > > > > > > just> >

> > > > > > > > > as> > > > > > > > > > > > the graha representing the bondage of the mind > is> > Moon.> > > > > And> > > > > > > > > among> > > > > > > > > > > those> > > > > > > > > > > > born with Surya as atmakaraka we have grades of > those> > > > > being> > > > > > > > > fully> > > > > > > > > > > > engrossed in ahamkara vs. having complete > control of> > > > > > > ahamkara.> > > > > > > > > > > Divine> > > > > > > > > > > > souls like Vivekananda, Ramakrishna Paramahamsa> > and Sri> > > > > > > Krishna> > >

> > > > > > > > being at> > > > > > > > > > > > one end of the scale. With fellows like Donald > Trump,> > > > > Adolph> > > > > > > > > Hitler> > > > > > > > > > > > (exalted surya yuti AK) and others at the other > end of> > > > > the> > > > > > > > > scale.> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Now, to overcome these eight bondages, there > are EIGHT> > > > > ways> > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > > look> > > > > > > > > > > at> > > > > > > > > > > > God through which we can be freed. For the > Ahamkara

we> > > > > must> > > > > > > > > look at> > > > > > > > > > > God> > > > > > > > > > > > as Paramatman. This is the remedy itself. And > the> > > > > specific> > > > > > > form> > > > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > > > > Shiva> > > > > > > > > > > > who will help us realize this is Ishana for the > Sun.> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > So please don't make the equation that everyone > with> > > > > Surya> > > > > > > > > > > atmakaraka is> > > > > > > > > > > > Paramatman. That would be quite

delusional > indeed...> > > > > Infact> > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > > concept> > > > > > > > > > > > of Paramatma is the means to which the Surya> > atmakaraka> > > > > > > will be> > > > > > > > > > > freed of> > > > > > > > > > > > his/her ahamkara.> > > > > > > > > > > > Looking forward to your reply.> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Yours sincerely,> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > --> > > > > > > > > > > > Visti Larsen - SJC Guru> > > > > >

> > > > > > Jaimini SJC - Denmark> > > > > > > > > > > > email: visti@ <visti@>> > > > > > > > > > > > For consultations, free mp3's and articles > visit:> > http:/> > > > > /> > > > > > > > > > > srigaruda.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com> > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>> > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com> > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>>> > > > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com> > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>> <http://> > > > > srigaruda.com> > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > yeeahoo_99 wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >

> > > > > || OM TAT SAT||> > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Visti,> > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you prove that Ahamkara is represented > by> > > > > Surya ?> > > > > > > > > Either> > > > > > > > > > > you> > > > > > > > > > > > > mean to say that Lord Krishna represents > Ahamkara> > > > > going by> > > > > > > > > Gita> > > > > > > > > > > > > Chapter 10 verse 21:> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > "Of the tweleve adityas I am vishnu, of all> > > > > luminaries the> > > > > > > > >

radiant> > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun , of the seven Maruts I am marichi, and > of the> > > > > > > > > constellations> > > > > > > > > > > I am> > > > > > > > > > > > > the Moon."> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you saying that Sura/Surya group of > planets are> > > > > lead> > > > > > > by> > > > > > > > > Surya> > > > > > > > > > > as> > > > > > > > > > > > > Ahamkara?> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you saying that the Vedas adoring Surya

> Narayan> > > > > as a> > > > > > > > > witness> > > > > > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > > > > > > all actions (Sakshi) is an individuality > creating> > > > > Ahamkara> > > > > > > > > > > Principle> > > > > > > > > > > > > and not an impersonal transcendental > intelligence> > > > > > > principle?> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Please explain why Surya as Ahamkara should be> > > > > referred> > > > > > > to as> > > > > > > > > > > > > Paramatma, the soul of all and `Jagadaikha> > > > >

chakshusay',> > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > eye> > > > > > > > > > > of the> > > > > > > > > > > > > three worlds?> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > regards,> > > > > > > > > > > > > nitish> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa > > > > <sohamsa%40>> > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>> > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>> > > > > > >

> > <sohamsa%40>> > > > > > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>,> > > > > > > > > > > > > Visti Larsen <visti@> wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ??? ??? ??????> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear List, Namaskar> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why hasn't anyone started talking about the > eight> > > > > > > bondages> > > > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > > > > the atma?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ahamkara

(surya), Manas (chandra), Prakriti> > (rahu),> > > > > > > Akasha> > > > > > > > > > > (guru), Agni> > > > > > > > > > > > > > (mangala), Jala (shukra), Vayu (shani) and > Prithvi> > > > > > > (budha).> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > And how these eight bondages map into the > eight> > > > > spokes> > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > > kala> > > > > > > > > > > > > > chakra, which are simultaneously the eight > spokes> > > > > of the> > > > > > > > > > > anahata

chakra.> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Really any talk on the atma and its EIGHT> > karakas is> > > > > > > futile> > > > > > > > > > > without any> > > > > > > > > > > > > > of this.> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yours sincerely,> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > --> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visti Larsen - SJC Guru> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jaimini SJC - Denmark> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > email: visti@ <visti@>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > For consultations, free mp3's and articles > visit:> > > > > > > > > > > > > http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com> > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>> > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com> > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>>> > > > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com> > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>> <http://> > > > > srigaruda.com> > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>>> <http://> > > > > > > > > srigaruda.com> > > > > > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com> > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>> > > >

> > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com> > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com > <http://srigaruda.com> > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>> > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com> > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>>> > > > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com> > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>> <http://> > > > > srigaruda.com> > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com> > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>> > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com> > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>> <http://> > > > > > > srigaruda.com> > > > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com> > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Promila Chitkara wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello Sharat,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you not think that "serving others" > comes> > > > > naturally> > > > > > > > > only> > > > > > > > > > > to a> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > handful people? There maybe people who > want to> > > > > serve> > > > > > > their> > > > > > > > > > > families;> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > however, that is not selfless service in > the> > true> > > > > > > sense of> > > > >

> > > > > > the term.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because we know very well that in > happiness and> > > > > > > > > contentment> > > > > > > > > > > of our> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > families lies our happiness and growth! > So it's> > > > > purely> > > > > > > > > > > selfish.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > P> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sharat

<gidoc@>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa > > > > <sohamsa%40>> > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>> > > > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>> > > > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>> > > > > > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thursday, August 30, 2007 2:23:04 AM> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Re: Re: Jupiter as AK > (to> > > > > Tijanaji,> > > > > > > > >

Nitish> > > > > > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > v_reality)> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ||Namah Shivaya||> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sundeep,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Good observations, I was following this> > thread as> > > > > > > well but> > > > > > > > > > > really> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > found the ' ego ' bit coming in too > quickly.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > English words cant describe so well ' > ahankar '> > > > > and '>

> > > > > > > > aham'> > > > > > > > > > > which are> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > different and I agree that one cannot see > this> > > > > only in> > > > > > > > > Sun AK.> > > > > > > > > > > > > However> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as you say, Sun AK needs to learn to serve> > others> > > > > as> > > > > > > it> > > > > > > > > does> > > > > > > > > > > not come> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > naturally to them. And you cant take ' > I ' away> > > > > from> > > > > > > them> > > > >

> > > > so> > > > > > > > > > > easily> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > but perhaps if one wants to merge with> > Paramatma,> > > > > then> > > > > > > > > the '> > > > > > > > > > > I '> > > > > > > > > > > > > will> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have to merge in to ' Him '.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sharat> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** vedicastrostudent> > > > > <vedicastrostudent@>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *To:* sohamsa@ .com> > > > > > > > > > > <sohamsa > > > > <sohamsa%40>> > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>> > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>> > > > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>> > > > > > > > > >

> > > <sohamsa%40>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 29, 2007 8:56 PM> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Subject:* Re: Jupiter as AK (to> > > > > Tijanaji,> > > > > > > > > Nitish> > > > > > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > v_reality)> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Tijanaji and Nitish,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have been reading your exchange with > interest> > > > > in

the> > > > > > > > > hope of> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > learning something new, but I find myself> > > > > disagreeing> > > > > > > > > subtly> > > > > > > > > > > > > in the> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > essence of what you say. In fact, deep > down> > in the> > > > > > > > > exchange I> > > > > > > > > > > find> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this statement made by "v_reality" which > makes a> > > > > lot> > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > > sense> > > > > > > > > > > > > to me:> > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > "Can this also be understood at a > different> > level> > > > > as> > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > > > > effacement> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of 'self' in a spiritual sense?".> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here is my take - I have none of the > scriptural> > > > > > > knowledge> > > > > > > > > you> > > > > > > > > > > both> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have, only I have seen several Sun AK > people: I> > > > > dont> > > > > > > > >

think it> > > > > > > > > > > is> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > fair to say that Sun AK people are> > egotistic. See,> > > > > > > English> > > > > > > > > > > > > also has> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a lot of words which have subtly different> > > > > meanings,> > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > > right> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > one has to be used. An egotistic person is> > one who> > > > > > > has a> > > > > > > > > > > > > exaggerated> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > sense of self-importance. Almost everyone > in> > this> > > > > > > world> > > > > > > > > has> > > > > > > > > > > that> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (and you are fooling yourself if you deny> > it), it> > > > > is> > > > > > > plain> > > > > > > > > > > > > wrong to> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > observe a person have Sun AK and > simultaneously> > > > > > > observe> > > > > > > > > that> > > > > > > > > > > > > he also> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > has an exaggerated sense of self > importance and>

> > > > say> > > > > > > "yes,> > > > > > > > > > > that is> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what the Sun AK does to him". I can cite> > hundreds> > > > > of> > > > > > > > > people I> > > > > > > > > > > know> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > who are very self important and DONT have> > Sun AK,> > > > > and> > > > > > > not> > > > > > > > > only> > > > > > > > > > > > > that> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > may not even have a strong Sun in their > chart.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I personally think the only statement that> > can be> > > > > > > observed> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > repeatedly with Sun AK people is that > they are> > > > > > > egocentric> > > > > > > > > i.e.> > > > > > > > > > > > > their> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > view of the world is based on the > individual> > > > > rather> > > > > > > than> > > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > society. They may or may not be > egotistical> > (i.e.> > > > > > > > > > > > > egocentricity

does> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not imply self importance) - the AK > simply makes> > > > > them> > > > > > > go> > > > > > > > > > > through> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > experiences in life such that their core > self is> > > > > > > tested.> > > > > > > > > How> > > > > > > > > > > they> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > respond to it depends probably on lots of > other> > > > > > > > > astrological> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > factors. The only statement I can safely > make,> > > > > based> > > > > > >

on> > > > > > > > > pure> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > experience, is that Sun AK people are > guided to> > > > > > > divinity> > > > > > > > > > > through> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > experiences of the self, consequently > their view> > > > > is> > > > > > > > > > > egocentric.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I know one Sun AK woman (dont know if I > can> > share> > > > > her> > > > > > > > > data)> > > > > > > > > > > > > who was> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > molested (by her own professor) and > denied a> > > > > higher> > > > > > > degree> > > > > > > > > > > > > that she> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > worked hard for, then get married and then> > > > > divorced,> > > > > > > then> > > > > > > > > > > have her> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mom die of cancer in a rather painful > way, then> > > > > have> > > > > > > her> > > > > > > > > > > > > brother get> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > divorced in a messy lawsuit (and then > leave her> > > > > too),> > > >

> > > then> > > > > > > > > > > > > (she) get> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > married again and her husband develop > terminal> > > > > cancer> > > > > > > very> > > > > > > > > > > soon> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > afterward. Net result: she cant seem to > find a> > > > > strong> > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > > > > > > consistent> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > support outside of herself - she has > become self> > > > > > > reliant> > > > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > > > > only> > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > finds consistent happiness in > meditation/reiki.> > > > > She is> > > > > > > > > > > probably> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > egotistical in some degree too, but not > in any> > > > > > > outstanding> > > > > > > > > > > way at> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > all, and probably much less than all the > people> > > > > around> > > > > > > > > her..> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Consequently, I really dispute the fact > that Sun> > > > > AK> > > > > > > people> >

> > > > > > > > > must> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > learn to "reduce their ego". That is > simply a> > > > > general> > > > > > > > > lesson> > > > > > > > > > > > > for all> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of mankind. Sun AK people's AK will guide > them> > > > > towards> > > > > > > > > > > divinity> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > through experiences that make them focus > on> > > > > > > themselves and> > > > > > > > > > > search> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for the truth: now that's the statement I > find> > >

> > much> > > > > > > more> > > > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > point.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Comments?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sundeep> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > <sohamsa%40>, nix > nixen> > > > > > > <nix_nixen@> > > > > > > > > ..>> > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Nitish,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Only from one simple statement of > yours "It is> > > > > not> > > > > > > > > always> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > possible for me..." i read that your AK > must be> > > > > > > nothing> > >

> > > > > > less> > > > > > > > > > > than> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun. Am i right? If yes, then i think i`m > on the> > > > > right> > > > > > > > > way of> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > finding answers on my queries.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Warm regards,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tijana> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yeeahoo_99 <nitish.arya@ ...> wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Tijana,> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > Raja Yoga is the yoga of soul with > paramatma -> > > > > deep/> > > > > > > > > shallow,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > material/spiritual - all kind of things > have a> > > > > basis> > > > > > > > > only in> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > paramatma. Thus, even Raja-bhanga yoga > has a> > > > > basis> > > > > > > i.e.> > > > > > > > > > > > > separation> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > soul from paramatma (which is illusory > only> > > > > though)> > > > > > >

and> > > > > > > > > > > hence> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > material/spiritual loss depending on the> > kind of> > > > > > > karma> > > > > > > > > > > involved.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As the lord of a sign, a planet rules a > 12th> > > > > part> > > > > > > of the> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > consciousness, relatively . Thus, in> > part, it> > > > > > > becomes> > > > > > > > > its> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > responsibility to guide the affairs of

> that> > > > > sign/> > > > > > > house> > > > > > > > > > > towards> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > fulfillment. You may explore it further.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is not always possible for me to > answer to> > > > > your> > > > > > > > > specific> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > queries.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hopefully, in time, you will discover > the> > truth> > > > > of> > > > > > > your> > > > > > > > > > > queries.> >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > best regards,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nitish> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>,> > > > > "tijanadamjanovic"> > > > > > > > > > > > > <nix_nixen@>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om

Gurave Namah> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Nitish,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, all must serve. The questions > raised in> > > > > these> > > > > > > > > > > discussions> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > on Atma> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karakas were on the specific way of > serving.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If we say that Sun AK must learn> > principles of> > > > > > > artha> > > > > > > > > > > > > shastra to> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > serve,> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > the same stands for Ma and Ju AK? How > to> > > > > > > > > differentiate? I> > > > > > > > > > > > > assume> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > are taking karakatvas of the houses > into> > > > > account> > > > > > > also> > > > > > > > > > > > > (2nd, 6th,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th)?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Sun/Raja gets service on the > throne, but> > > > > > > regarding> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > spirituality>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and Atma this is related to real Raja > yoga> > > > > whose> > > > > > > > > deepest> > > > > > > > > > > > > meaning> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > inseparable from 10th house of > indriyas> > (refer> > > > > > > > > > > Vivekananda) .> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Only in> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that sense we can talk of Janaka or > the> > > > > perfect> > > > > > > King.> > > > > > > > > What> > > >

> > > > > > > > > artha> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > shastra principles you had in mind?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Warm regards,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tijana> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>,> > > > > > > > > > > "yeeahoo_99" <nitish.arya@ >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > || Om TAT SAT ||> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Tijana,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To fulfill ones own dharma is > what you> > > > > > > probably> > > > > > > > > had in> > > > > > > > > > > > > mind> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mentioning Gita in this context.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Context that was intended is Gita

> Chapter> > > > > > > 3,sloka> > > > > > > > > 22.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All must work if the lord of the> > cosmos has> > > > > > > chosen> > > > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > > > > work.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thus,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is nothing specific that only > SUN AK> > > > > has> > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > > > > > > "serve", all> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

AKs> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "serve".> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But, are you implying that Sun AK> > gives a> > > > > > > person> > > > > > > > > akin> > > > > > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Janaka?!> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, Sun AK gives a person akin to> > Janaka -> > > > > > > > > jivanmukta -> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

provided> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > enough effort has been put in.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you determing dharma based on > this?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, Sun AK need not be 9th lord.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Will you advise Sun AK people to > take> > > > > > > > > Dhartharastra> > > > > > > > > > > as an> > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > example!> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The attitude of service is seen > from 6th> > > > > house.> > > > > > > Leo> > > > > > > > > > > being a> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dharma> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > trikona sign fulfills its purpose of> > service> > > > > > > through> > > > > > > > > > > 10th> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > house of> > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Artha, which is 6th from it. So a > Sun AK> > > > > should> > > > > > > > > learn> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > principles of> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > artha shastra to serve.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, again, what Raja will hardly > ever do> > > > > is> > > > > > > > > serving.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All souls have to "Serve" only as > there

is> > > > > > > nothing> > > > > > > > > else> > > > > > > > > > > > > to be> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > done> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in the three worlds because Krishna > has> > > > > already> > > > > > > > > achieved> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > everything> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that is there to achieve in the > three> > > > > > > worlds(refer> > > > > > > > > > > Gita).> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those who> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > do not serve, are reborn to learn to> > serve,> > > > > > > > > whatever be> > > > > > > > > > > > > their> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AK.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda` s Dharm bhava> > lord was> > > > > Sun> > > > > > > AK> > > > > > > > > in> > > > > > > > > > > > > lagna in> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dhanus> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (extraordinary combination for >

unselfish> > > > > > > giving by> > > > > > > > > > > > > itself).> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But do you think it`s a > coincidence that> > > > > His> > > > > > > > > Master> > > > > > > > > > > had> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > exalted> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn in 9th> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > bhava and Rahu AK? What do you> > think, why> > > > > even> > > > > > > > > Swami> > > > > > > > > > > > > needed> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > these?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One is not re-born after exhausting > his> > > > > karma/> > > > > > > > > desires.> > > > > > > > > > > Thus,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vivekananda (Rahu PiK) came here to> > exhaust> > > > > his> > > > > > > > > > > remaining> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karma/> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > desires with Ramakrishna (Rahu AK). > There> > > > > is no> > > > > > >

more> > > > > > > > > > > > > substance> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this than a past-life karmic> > relationship of> > > > > > > the two> > > > > > > > > > > which> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > continued> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in this birth also.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NITISH> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>,> > > > > > > "tijana" <nix_nixen@>> > > > > > > > > > > wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Nitish,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your elaboration would be even > more> > > > > brilliant> > > > > > > if> > > >

> > > > > you> > > > > > > > > > > had> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > just answer> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my question.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To fulfill ones own dharma is > what you> > > > > > > probably> > > > > > > > > had in> > > > > > > > > > > > > mind> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mentioning> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gita in this context. But, are you> > > > > implying> > > > > > > that> > > > > > > > >

Sun> > > > > > > > > > > AK> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gives a> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > person akin to Janaka?! Are you> > determing> > > > > > > dharma> > > > > > > > > > > based on> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this? Will> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you advise Sun AK people to take> > > > > > > Dhartharastra as> > > > > > > > > an> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > example!> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, again, what Raja will hardly > ever do>

> > > > is> > > > > > > > > serving.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda` s Dharm bhava> > lord was> > > > > Sun> > > > > > > AK> > > > > > > > > in> > > > > > > > > > > > > lagna in> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dhanus> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (extraordinary combination for > unselfish> > > > > > > giving by> > > > > > > > > > > > > itself).> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But do> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you> >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > think it`s a coincidence that His > Master> > > > > had> > > > > > > > > exalted> > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in 9th> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > bhava and Rahu AK? What do you> > think, why> > > > > even> > > > > > > > > Swami> > > > > > > > > > > > > needed> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > these?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Warm regards,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> Tijana> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>,> > > > > > > > > > > "yeeahoo_99" <nitish.arya@ >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > || Om Tat Sat ||> > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Tijana,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What is the thing that Raja > will> > > > > hardly> > > > > > > ever> > > > > > > > > do?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read up Gita, arthashastra and > ancient> > > > > texts> > > > > > > > > that> > > > > > > > > > > show> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what> > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > all a> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raja has to do to ensure that > his> > > > > subjects> > > > > > > are> > > > > > > > > > > protected> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > progress> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > on the upward evolutionary path.> > Look at> > > > > > > > > krishna,> > > > > > > > > > > Janaka> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > ChandraGupta Maurya and you will> > > > > understand> > > > > > > > > whatever> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that "hardly> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ever do" equates to.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Otherwise, going by your > statement, AK> > > > > > > wouldn't> > > > > > > > > do> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > anything> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > being> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the king of the horoscope and > the rest> > > >

> of> > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > > > > karakas (BK,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PiK,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Puk,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GK) i.e. his subjects will > follow the> > > > > suit!> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, the mantra is "Shiva > jnane> > > > > Jiva> > > > > > > > > > > Seva" (serving> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > every> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > being as the full manifestation > of> > God)> > > > > that> > > > > > > > > > > > > Narendranath> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > received> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from his Master Ramakrishna who> > had Sun> > > > > in> > > > > > > > > Aquarius.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Being Sun AK, Vivekananda had> > developed> > > > > > > peculiar> > > > > > > > > > > > > sharpness> > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > perception and assimilation that> > > > > empowered> > > > > > > him> > > > > > > > > with> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > unusual power> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pick up 'the gems' from the > talks> > of his> > > > > > > Master.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With Sun in Sagittarius, he > could, as>

> > > > > > compared> > > > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > > > > > > others,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > easily> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'see' the deep meaning in the > words of> > > > > Sri> > > > > > > > > > > Ramakrishna,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > even> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > though> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the Master told them in simple> > language> > > > > (Aq> > > > > > > > > Sun),> > > > > > > >

> > > and> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > never as> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > preaching.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With its dispositor Jupiter in > Libra,> > > > > > > gradually> > > > > > > > > > > Swami> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vivekananda> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > started assimilating tips and > hints on> > > > > > > practical> > > > > > > > > > > Vedanta> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > that> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > could> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > benefit individual and > collective life> > > > > in> > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > > society.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "...For spiritual persons Sun > as AK> > > > > > > should be> > > > > > > > > in> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter`s> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

signs> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (Shiva jnane...), otherwise > it`s> > very> > > > > hard> > > > > > > > > > > task..."> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Putting up statements like you > have> > > > > done is> > > > > > > not> > > > > > > > > > > > > wise. Sri> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yukteswar> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Giri, has Sun AK placed in Aries> > and had> > > > > > > >

> attained> > > > > > > > > > > > > highest> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > level> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > spirituality. Even if Sun AK is > placed> > > > > in> > > > > > > > > Libra, it> > > > > > > > > > > > > could> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > be the> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > most> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > spiritual person.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AK shows the spiritual power of > a sign> > > > > over> > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > > rest of> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > signs/> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets in the chart and this> > spiritual> > > > > > > power> > > > > > > > > > > manifests> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > through> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > dispositor of AK and its sign> > placement.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NITISH> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>,> > > > > > > "tijana" <nix_nixen@>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Su,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun is the Self. Its > qualities are> > > > > those> > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > > Raja> > > > > > > > > > > > > (karaka> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > first house, lord of the 5th, >

dig> > > > > bala in> > > > > > > > > 10th).> > > > > > > > > > > > > What is> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thing> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that Raja will hardly ever > do? The> > > > > lesson> > > > > > > > > that has> > > > > > > > > > > > > to be> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > learnt> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > by> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun AK is serving, in the

> highest> > > > > sence it> > > > > > > > > gives> > > > > > > > > > > > > "Shiva> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > jnane> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shiva> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > seva" (service of man as God)-> the> > > > > divine> > > > > > > > > lesson> > > > > > > > > > > > > given to> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > us by> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Vivekananda (Sun AK). For > spiritual> > > > > > > persons> > > > > > > > > Sun> > > > > > > > > > > as AK> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > should be> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter`s signs (Shiva > jnane...),> > > > > > > otherwise> > > > > > > > > it`s> > > > > > > > > > > very> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hard task.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Warm regards,> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Tijana> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>, "v> > > > > > > > > reality" <reality_v@>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Bojan-ji> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for your reply. > Much> > > > > > > appreciated.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If I may ask another query > re Sun> > > > > AK.> > > > > > > The> > > > > > > > > lesson> > > > > > > > > > > > > to be> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > learnt> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun AK,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is the reduction of

ego. > Can this> > > > > also> > > > > > > be> > > > > > > > > > > understood> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at a> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > different level> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as the effacement of 'self' > in a> > > > > > > spiritual> > > > > > > > > > > sense?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Su> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Bojan Vidakovic > <janbovid@>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> sohamsa@> > .com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <sohamsa%40>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> sohamsa@ .com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

<sohamsa%40>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Re: > Jupiter as> > > > > AK> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Wed, 22 Aug 2007 > 08:33:22 -> > > > > 0700> > > > > > > (PDT)> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >HARE RAMA KRISHNA> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Dear Su> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I would add

that with Gu AK> > person> > > > > > > have to> > > > > > > > > be> > > > > > > > > > > very> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > humble to> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > all> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > spiritual> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >techers and natives, like> > priests,> > > > > > > gurus,> > > > > > > > > > > teachers.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With Ma> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AK> > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > person must> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >practise Ahumsa > (nonviolence) ,> > > > > with> > > > > > > Ch the> > > > > > > > > > > > > native is> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > always> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > very> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > caring,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >and gives emotions but the> > problem> > > > > is> > > > > > > that> > > > > > > >

> they> > > > > > > > > > > > > never> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > get> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > enough> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >themselves from other > people. The> > > > > > > person> > > > > > > > > must> > > > > > > > > > > learn> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lessons> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> from the> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >people represented with > AK. Ch /> > > > > > > mother,> > > > > > > > > Sy /> > > > > > > > > > > > > father> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > everything those> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >grahas represent.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Take few examples of > people you> > > > > know> > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > > see> >

> > > > > > > > > it in> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > praxix.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wishes,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Bojan> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Hari Om Tat Sat> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Rafal Gendarz > <starsuponme@ >> > > > > wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > hraum namah adityaya> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Su,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Person should use a lot > of glass> > > > > and> > > > > > > sing/> > > > > > > > > hum> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > melodies.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rafal Gendarz> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Jagannath Center Guru> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > email: rafal@> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jyotish pages: > www.rohinaa. com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > v reality napisaÅ,(a): > Dear> > > > > Rafalji/> > > > > > > > > Members> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is an interesting> > discussion.> > > > > > > Could> > > > > > > > > we> > > > > > > > > > > > > discuss> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > other> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AKs> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > too. I read> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in an article that > natives with> > > > > Moon> > > > > > > as AK> > > > > > > > > > > need to> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > learn> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to be> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > more> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >caring> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and loving to others. But > I know> > > > > of a> > > > > > > >

> chart> > > > > > > > > > > where> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > native> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > already> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >by> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nature very caring, > loving and> > > > > > > concerned> > > > > > > > > about> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > others> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > since> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > young. So> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >what> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is the lesson to be > learnt?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Su> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Rafal Gendarz> >

<starsuponme@> > > > > > > wp.pl>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> sohamsa@> > > > > .com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> sohamsa@ .com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Re: > Jupiter> > > > > as AK> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Wed, 22 Aug 2007 > 10:24:14> > > > > +0200> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > *hraum namah adityaya*> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Dear LN Kumar,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >With Ju AK person should> > learn to> > > > > > > respect> > > > > > > > > > > others> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > knowledge> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and> > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >tradition,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >should be ready to learn > from> > > > > others.> > > > > > > > > When Ju> > > > > > > > > > > > > is in> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kendra to> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AK or is> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >AK> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >himself then native > thinks that> > > > > he> >

> > > > > knows> > > > > > > > > > > > > everything> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > now> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can share> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >His knowledge with > everybody.> > > > > Good> > > > > > > > > teachers> > > > > > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > course> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > comes> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >AK-Jupiter- Natives, as > this> > > > > graha> > > > > > > will> > > > > > > > > be> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > naturally in> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karakamsa.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >With MA AK person should> > learn to> > > > > > > > > catalyze>

> > > > > > > > > > > > energies> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > through> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ZEN, TAI-CHI> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >or> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >other techniques, while > with JU> > > > > AK> > > > > > > person> > > > > > > > > > > should> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > learn to> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > be> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > more humble> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >regarding knowledge. Of > course> > > > > person> > > > > > > > > can be> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > focused on> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter-> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karakas> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >like kids, spirituality, > law,> > > > > luck> > > > > > > etc.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Mahadasa of AK brings > lesson to> > > > > us> > > > > > > so its> > > > > > > > > > > not so> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > easy> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > materially but> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >inspiring spiritually, > so if> > > > > Surya> > > > > > > is in> > > > > > > > > good> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > placement> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from> > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AK> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > then it> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >can> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >be not so bad as person > is> > > > > spiritual.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Regards,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Rafal Gendarz> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >Sri Jagannath Center Guru> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Jyotish pages: > www.rohinaa. com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >narender kumar napisa?> (a):> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >>Dear Gurujans,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>Kindly throw some light > on> > > > > Jupiter> > > > > > > as> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>Atmakaraka and having> > Jupiter as> > > > > > > > > mahadasha.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>Respectful Regards,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>LN Kumar> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>__________ __ _________> > > > > _________> > > > > > > > > _________> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________ _> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>Take the Internet to Go:> > > > > Go> > > > > > > puts> > > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internet in> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > your> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pocket:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >mail,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>news, photos & more.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>http://mobile. > > > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>> > > > > > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>>> > > > > > > > > <http://mobile./

<http://mobile./> <http://mobile./ > > > > <http://mobile./>>>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./> > <http://mobile./ > > > > <http://mobile./>> <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>> > > > > > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>

> <http://mobile./ > > > > <http://mobile./>> <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>> > > > > > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>>> <http://mobile./ > > > > <http://mobile./> <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>>> > > > > > > > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./> <http://mobile./ > > > > <http://mobile./>>>>>> /> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > go?refer= 1GNXIC> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >><http://mobile. <http://> > > > > mobile./> > > > > > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>>> > > > > > > > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./> <http://mobile./ > > > > <http://mobile./>>>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./> > <http://mobile./ > > > > <http://mobile./>> <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>> > > > > > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./> > <http://mobile./ > > > > <http://mobile./>> <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>> > > > > > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>>> <http://mobile./ > > > > <http://mobile./> <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./>>> > > > > > > > > <http://mobile./ <http://mobile./> <http://mobile./ > > > > <http://mobile./>>>>>> /> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > go?refer= 1GNXIC>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ > _________> > > > > > > _________> > > > > > > > > > > > > _________> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Advertisement: It's > simple! Sell> > > > > your> > > > > > > car> > > > > > > > > for> > >

> > > > > > > > just> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > $30 at> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > CarPoint.com.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >au> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://a.ninemsn. <http://> > > > > a.ninemsn./> > > > > > > <http://a.ninemsn./ <http://a.ninemsn./>>> > > > > > > > > <http://a.ninemsn./ <http://a.ninemsn./>> > <http://a.ninemsn./ > > > > <http://a.ninemsn./>>>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://a.ninemsn./ <http://a.ninemsn./> > > > > <http://a.ninemsn./ <http://a.ninemsn./>> <http://> > > > > a.ninemsn./> > > > > > > <http://a.ninemsn./ <http://a.ninemsn./>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://a.ninemsn./ <http://a.ninemsn./> > > > > <http://a.ninemsn./ <http://a.ninemsn./>>> > > > > > > <http://a.ninemsn./ <http://a.ninemsn./> > <http://a.ninemsn./ > > > > <http://a.ninemsn./>>> <http://> > > > > > > a.ninemsn./> > > > > > > > > <http://a.ninemsn./ <http://a.ninemsn./>> > <http://a.ninemsn./ > > > > <http://a.ninemsn./>>>>>> com.au/b.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > aspx?URL=

http%3A%2F%> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2Fsecure%> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >2Dau%2Eimrworldw ide%2Ecom%> > > > > > > 2Fcgi%2Dbin%> > > > > > > > > > > 2Fa%2Fci%> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5F450304%> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2Fet%> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5F2%> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >2Fcg%5F801459% 2Fpi%> 5F1004813%> > > > > > > > > 2Fai%5F859641 & > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> _t=762955845 & > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _r=tig_AUG07 & > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_m=EXT> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Best wishes,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SJC Guru Bojan Vidakovic> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

for articles and > consultations> > > > > visit> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >http://www.jataveda s.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/ > > > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/> <http://www.jatavedas.com/ > > > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/>> > > > > >> > > > > > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/ <http://www.jatavedas.com/> > > > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/ <http://www.jatavedas.com/>>>> > > > > > > > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/ > <http://www.jatavedas.com/> > > > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/ <http://www.jatavedas.com/>>> > > > > > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/ <http://www.jatavedas.com/> > > > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/ <http://www.jatavedas.com/>>>>> > > > > > > > > > >

<http://www.jatavedas.com/ > <http://www.jatavedas.com/> > > > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/ <http://www.jatavedas.com/>>> > > > > > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/ <http://www.jatavedas.com/> > > > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/ <http://www.jatavedas.com/>>>> > > > > > > > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/ > <http://www.jatavedas.com/> > > > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/ <http://www.jatavedas.com/>>> > > > > > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/ <http://www.jatavedas.com/> > > > > <http://www.jatavedas.com/ <http://www.jatavedas.com/>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >----------- ---------> > --------- ---> > > > > -> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Choose the

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> > > > _________> > > > > > > > > > > > > _________ _> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Advertisement: Make shopping> > > > > exciting.> > > > > > > Find> > > > > > > > > > > what you> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > want at> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > www.eBay.com. au> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://a.ninemsn. com.au/ > <http://> > > > > > > > > > > a.ninemsn.com.au/> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/> > <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/> > > > > <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/ <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/>>> > > > > > > <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/ <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/> > > > > <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/ <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/>>>> > > > > > > > > <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/ <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/> > > > > <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/ <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/>>> > > > > > > <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/ <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/> > > > > <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/ <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b.aspx?URL=http% 3A%2F%2Frover%> > > > > > > 2Eebay%2Ecom%> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2Frover%2F1% 2F705%2D10129%> > > > > 2D5668%2D323%> > > > > > > > > > > 2F4%2F%3Fid%> > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3D6 & _t=763807330 & _r=email_> > taglines_> > > > > > > > > EBAY & _m=EXT> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ---> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take the Internet to Go: Go puts > the> > > > > Internet> > > > > > > in> > > > > > > > > your> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pocket: mail, news, photos & more.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > ---------------------> > > > > ----> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Be a better Globetrotter. Get better > travel> > > > > answers> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http:// > > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://>> > > > > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http:// > > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://>>> > > > > > > answers./> > > > > > > > >> > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./ > > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./>> > > > > > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./ > > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./>>>> > > > > > > > > dir/> > > > > > > > > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http:// > > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://>> > > > > answers./> > > > > > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./ >

> > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./>>> > > > > > > dir/> > > > > > > > >> > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./ > > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./>> > > > > dir/> > > > > > >> > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./dir/ > > > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./dir/>> > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > _ylc=X3oDMTI5MGx2aThyBF9TAzIxMTU1MDAzNTIEX3MDMzk2NTQ1MTAzBHNlYwNCQUJwa> WxsYXJfTklfMzYwBHNsawNQcm9kdWN0X3F1ZXN0aW9uX3BhZ2U-?> link=list & sid=396545469> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http:// > > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://>> > > > > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http:// > > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://>>> > > > > > > answers./> > > > > > > > >> > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./ > > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./>> > > > > > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./ > > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./>>>> > > > > > > > > dir/> > > > > > > > > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http:// > > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://>> > > > > answers./> > > > > > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./ >

> > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./>>> > > > > > > dir/> > > > > > > > >> > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./ > > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./>> > > > > dir/> > > > > > >> > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./dir/ > > > > > <http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./dir/>> > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > _ylc=X3oDMTI5MGx2aThyBF9TAzIxMTU1MDAzNTIEX3MDMzk2NTQ1MTAzBHNlYwNCQUJwa> WxsYXJfTklfMzYwBHNsawNQcm9kdWN0X3F1ZXN0aW9uX3BhZ2U-?> link=list & sid=396545469>>from> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > someone who knows.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Answers - Check it out.> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> >> Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam

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