Guest guest Posted December 14, 2007 Report Share Posted December 14, 2007 Hare Raama Krishna, Dear Nitish, Thank you for your comment. As far as points second and fifth are concerned I think I have already covered them in the article. To calm you down, however, I assure you that I am an open-minded person. You said that I missed the whole point of the role of trinity. Why? Isn't it Vishnu's task to give moksha? (please note that I did not say that one has to be a Vaishnava to get moksha) Well, I was taught that Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva take on different tasks. They preside over different gunas. And that Vishnu's task is granting mukti. What is wrong with that? I do not think I utterly missed the point with Ramayan. Yes, the story is much deeper and I acknowledge the fact that it was Jaya and Vijaya. However, I heard that story being told in this way to illustrate this example that you do not necessarily have to be a Vaishnava to get mukti. That is all. I wanted to stress this point in my article, so I decided to use it. Various stories have different meanings, depending on the angle from which you study. I didn't want to deprive the Ramayan of deeper insight and details, though. Besides that, as far as I know, there are five types of mukti. Well, as far as your other points are concerned I thought that not only Ketu in 12th but also in 4th gives moksha (that's from karakamsa of course). But that is not all I suppose. It is not that easy. You also have to take Punya Chakra into consideration, don't you? I thought also that the Dasa of one's departure has to have Meena or Karka Rasi involved (since Meena Rasi gives the understanding of God and Karka Rasi yields faith). I think that these points all together are very important there as well. With regards, Pablo sohamsa , " yeeahoo_99 " <nitish.arya wrote: > > || OM TAT SAT || > Dear pawel,Rafal, > The article misses the whole point of the epic ramayana and the > role of trinity: > 1. Shiva had given Sudarshan chakra to Vishnu. > 2. Now, Ganesha doesn't have Sudarshan chakra at his disposal but > grants moksha. > 3. If Ravana really got moksha through sudarshana chakra, who was born > as shishupal* to get killed at the hands of Sri Krishna? And if Ravana > would get moksha, who is going to perform the duties of gatekeeper at > vaikuntha? > 4. Definition of Ishta-devata from karakamsa is stretched too far to > the next life of the native, when Ketu would sit in 12th from his AK > in navamsa and he would aspire for moksha after finishing off his > worldly duties as a result of worshipping vishnu avatara. > 5. I hope that you don't think that only hindus get moksha because > they worship lord vishnu? > > regards, > nitish > > * In the first birth, Jaya and Vijaya were born as Hiranyakashipu and > Hiranyaksha. Vishnu incarnated as Varaha and Narasimha and killed them > both. In Treta Yuga they were born as Ravana and Kumbhakarna and were > killed by Rama. Then in Dwapara yuga, and in their final birth, Jaya > and Vijaya they were born as Shishupala and Dantavakra and killed by > Sri Krishna. After the end of three births, they returned to Vaikunta. > > sohamsa , Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@> wrote: > > > > *hare rama krsna* > > > > Dear Members , Namaskar > > > > New article about Istha Devata: > > > > http://rohinaa.com/index.php/2007/12/13/ishta-devata/ > > > > Regards, > > Rafal Gendarz > > Sri Jagannath Center Guru > > email: rafal@ > > SkypeID: jyotraff1 > > Consultations & Articles: http://rohinaa.com > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2007 Report Share Posted December 15, 2007 Hare Raama Krishna, Dear Nitish, I still would not say that it is incorrect. The whole concept of dvadakshari mantra is connected with this. Many had attained moksha in this way. It is stated in Vishnu Puran, so how can it be incorrect? I would rather say it is a complexed issue. Many factors count there. Please kindly understand that the whole concept of emancipation goes down to understanding that God is omnipresent. That is all. If you worship any form of God in this mood, you will get closer and closer to moksha. Wish you all the best, Pablo sohamsa , " yeeahoo_99 " <nitish.arya wrote: > > || OM TAT SAT || > Dear Pablo, > Apart from ravana, if you look at Rahu, he didn't get moksha even > after getting hit by the Sudarshana chakra. Thus, your primary > premise is incorrect and please dont use it as a further > justification. > > > I did not say that one has to be a Vaishnava to get moksha) Well, I was taught that > > Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva take on different tasks. They preside over > > different gunas. And that Vishnu's task is granting mukti. What is > > wrong with that? > > Since brahma,vishnu, shiva preside over different gunas, they are > worshipped accordingly to help one get over that Guna. A person bound > up with Tamas guna would have to worship shiva to go beyond it. > Since the ultimate objective of all philosophy is to achieve > nirvikalpa or objectless union with god, it doesn't matter who we > worship as far as we take care of the predominant guna. > In case of vishnu, one with tamas guna would rather worship > Sheshnaga. > > different gunas. And that Vishnu's task is granting mukti. What is > > wrong with that? > If one can directly meditate on vishnu, he will surely get > moksha, and that is all those souls in satya/brahma loka would be > doing or a few rare souls on earth. May be you are one of them? > For the rest of us, Ganesha is the correct starting point. > regards, > nitish > > sohamsa , " candrashekara " <candrashekara@> > wrote: > > > > Hare Raama Krishna, > > Dear Nitish, > > > > Thank you for your comment. As far as points second and fifth are > > concerned I think I have already covered them in the article. To > calm > > you down, however, I assure you that I am an open-minded person. You > > said that I missed the whole point of the role of trinity. Why? > Isn't > > it Vishnu's task to give moksha? (please note that I did not say > that > > one has to be a Vaishnava to get moksha) Well, I was taught that > > Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva take on different tasks. They preside over > > different gunas. And that Vishnu's task is granting mukti. What is > > wrong with that? > > > > I do not think I utterly missed the point with Ramayan. Yes, the > story > > is much deeper and I acknowledge the fact that it was Jaya and > Vijaya. > > However, I heard that story being told in this way to illustrate > this > > example that you do not necessarily have to be a Vaishnava to get > > mukti. That is all. I wanted to stress this point in my article, so > I > > decided to use it. Various stories have different meanings, > depending > > on the angle from which you study. I didn't want to deprive the > > Ramayan of deeper insight and details, though. Besides that, as far > as > > I know, there are five types of mukti. > > > > Well, as far as your other points are concerned I thought that not > > only Ketu in 12th but also in 4th gives moksha (that's from > karakamsa > > of course). But that is not all I suppose. It is not that easy. You > > also have to take Punya Chakra into consideration, don't you? I > > thought also that the Dasa of one's departure has to have Meena or > > Karka Rasi involved (since Meena Rasi gives the understanding of God > > and Karka Rasi yields faith). I think that these points all > together > > are very important there as well. > > > > With regards, > > Pablo > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2007 Report Share Posted December 15, 2007 || OM TAT SAT || Dear pablo, God is Omni-present, Omni-scient and Omni-potent - all three aspects go together. Devoid of any two of these qualifiers, we are not talking about saguna brahman, but something of our own imagination or fascination with that specific aspect of God. > this way. It is stated in Vishnu Puran, so how can it be >incorrect? I I have not questioned the correctness of dwadashakshari mantra, but the reasoning that is being given sounds irrational. All i could say that if a person has great devotion and perseverance, then all other things are taken care of. regards, nitish sohamsa , " candrashekara " <candrashekara wrote: > > Hare Raama Krishna, > Dear Nitish, > > I still would not say that it is incorrect. The whole concept of > dvadakshari mantra is connected with this. Many had attained moksha in > this way. It is stated in Vishnu Puran, so how can it be incorrect? I > would rather say it is a complexed issue. Many factors count there. > Please kindly understand that the whole concept of emancipation goes > down to understanding that God is omnipresent. That is all. If you > worship any form of God in this mood, you will get closer and closer > to moksha. > > Wish you all the best, > Pablo > > > sohamsa , " yeeahoo_99 " <nitish.arya@> wrote: > > > > || OM TAT SAT || > > Dear Pablo, > > Apart from ravana, if you look at Rahu, he didn't get moksha even > > after getting hit by the Sudarshana chakra. Thus, your primary > > premise is incorrect and please dont use it as a further > > justification. > > > > > I did not say that one has to be a Vaishnava to get moksha) Well, > I was taught that > > > Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva take on different tasks. They preside over > > > different gunas. And that Vishnu's task is granting mukti. What is > > > wrong with that? > > > > Since brahma,vishnu, shiva preside over different gunas, they are > > worshipped accordingly to help one get over that Guna. A person bound > > up with Tamas guna would have to worship shiva to go beyond it. > > Since the ultimate objective of all philosophy is to achieve > > nirvikalpa or objectless union with god, it doesn't matter who we > > worship as far as we take care of the predominant guna. > > In case of vishnu, one with tamas guna would rather worship > > Sheshnaga. > > > different gunas. And that Vishnu's task is granting mukti. What is > > > wrong with that? > > If one can directly meditate on vishnu, he will surely get > > moksha, and that is all those souls in satya/brahma loka would be > > doing or a few rare souls on earth. May be you are one of them? > > For the rest of us, Ganesha is the correct starting point. > > regards, > > nitish > > > > sohamsa , " candrashekara " <candrashekara@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Hare Raama Krishna, > > > Dear Nitish, > > > > > > Thank you for your comment. As far as points second and fifth are > > > concerned I think I have already covered them in the article. To > > calm > > > you down, however, I assure you that I am an open-minded person. You > > > said that I missed the whole point of the role of trinity. Why? > > Isn't > > > it Vishnu's task to give moksha? (please note that I did not say > > that > > > one has to be a Vaishnava to get moksha) Well, I was taught that > > > Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva take on different tasks. They preside over > > > different gunas. And that Vishnu's task is granting mukti. What is > > > wrong with that? > > > > > > I do not think I utterly missed the point with Ramayan. Yes, the > > story > > > is much deeper and I acknowledge the fact that it was Jaya and > > Vijaya. > > > However, I heard that story being told in this way to illustrate > > this > > > example that you do not necessarily have to be a Vaishnava to get > > > mukti. That is all. I wanted to stress this point in my article, so > > I > > > decided to use it. Various stories have different meanings, > > depending > > > on the angle from which you study. I didn't want to deprive the > > > Ramayan of deeper insight and details, though. Besides that, as far > > as > > > I know, there are five types of mukti. > > > > > > Well, as far as your other points are concerned I thought that not > > > only Ketu in 12th but also in 4th gives moksha (that's from > > karakamsa > > > of course). But that is not all I suppose. It is not that easy. You > > > also have to take Punya Chakra into consideration, don't you? I > > > thought also that the Dasa of one's departure has to have Meena or > > > Karka Rasi involved (since Meena Rasi gives the understanding of God > > > and Karka Rasi yields faith). I think that these points all > > together > > > are very important there as well. > > > > > > With regards, > > > Pablo > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2007 Report Share Posted December 16, 2007 Hare Raama Krishna Dear Nitish, I have not been describing God. I was describing the mood of worship. As far as 'great devotion and perseverance ' is concerned, I have not questioned that. with regards, Pablo > Dear pablo, > God is Omni-present, Omni-scient and Omni-potent - all three > aspects go together. Devoid of any two of these qualifiers, we are > not talking about saguna brahman, but something of our own > imagination or fascination with that specific aspect of God > > this way. It is stated in Vishnu Puran, so how can it be > >incorrect? I > I have not questioned the correctness of dwadashakshari mantra, > but the reasoning that is being given sounds irrational. All i could > say that if a person has great devotion and perseverance, then all > other things are taken care of. > > regards, > nitish > > sohamsa , " candrashekara " <candrashekara@> > wrote: > > > > Hare Raama Krishna, > > Dear Nitish, > > > > I still would not say that it is incorrect. The whole concept of > > dvadakshari mantra is connected with this. Many had attained moksha > in > > this way. It is stated in Vishnu Puran, so how can it be > incorrect? I > > would rather say it is a complexed issue. Many factors count there. > > Please kindly understand that the whole concept of emancipation goes > > down to understanding that God is omnipresent. That is all. If you > > worship any form of God in this mood, you will get closer and closer > > to moksha. > > > > Wish you all the best, > > Pablo > > > > > > sohamsa , " yeeahoo_99 " <nitish.arya@> wrote: > > > > > > || OM TAT SAT || > > > Dear Pablo, > > > Apart from ravana, if you look at Rahu, he didn't get moksha > even > > > after getting hit by the Sudarshana chakra. Thus, your primary > > > premise is incorrect and please dont use it as a further > > > justification. > > > > > > > I did not say that one has to be a Vaishnava to get moksha) > Well, > > I was taught that > > > > Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva take on different tasks. They preside > over > > > > different gunas. And that Vishnu's task is granting mukti. What > is > > > > wrong with that? > > > > > > Since brahma,vishnu, shiva preside over different gunas, they > are > > > worshipped accordingly to help one get over that Guna. A person > bound > > > up with Tamas guna would have to worship shiva to go beyond it. > > > Since the ultimate objective of all philosophy is to achieve > > > nirvikalpa or objectless union with god, it doesn't matter who we > > > worship as far as we take care of the predominant guna. > > > In case of vishnu, one with tamas guna would rather worship > > > Sheshnaga. > > > > different gunas. And that Vishnu's task is granting mukti. What > is > > > > wrong with that? > > > If one can directly meditate on vishnu, he will surely get > > > moksha, and that is all those souls in satya/brahma loka would be > > > doing or a few rare souls on earth. May be you are one of them? > > > For the rest of us, Ganesha is the correct starting point. > > > regards, > > > nitish > > > > > > sohamsa , " candrashekara " <candrashekara@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hare Raama Krishna, > > > > Dear Nitish, > > > > > > > > Thank you for your comment. As far as points second and fifth > are > > > > concerned I think I have already covered them in the article. > To > > > calm > > > > you down, however, I assure you that I am an open-minded > person. You > > > > said that I missed the whole point of the role of trinity. Why? > > > Isn't > > > > it Vishnu's task to give moksha? (please note that I did not > say > > > that > > > > one has to be a Vaishnava to get moksha) Well, I was taught that > > > > Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva take on different tasks. They preside > over > > > > different gunas. And that Vishnu's task is granting mukti. What > is > > > > wrong with that? > > > > > > > > I do not think I utterly missed the point with Ramayan. Yes, > the > > > story > > > > is much deeper and I acknowledge the fact that it was Jaya and > > > Vijaya. > > > > However, I heard that story being told in this way to > illustrate > > > this > > > > example that you do not necessarily have to be a Vaishnava to > get > > > > mukti. That is all. I wanted to stress this point in my > article, so > > > I > > > > decided to use it. Various stories have different meanings, > > > depending > > > > on the angle from which you study. I didn't want to deprive the > > > > Ramayan of deeper insight and details, though. Besides that, as > far > > > as > > > > I know, there are five types of mukti. > > > > > > > > Well, as far as your other points are concerned I thought that > not > > > > only Ketu in 12th but also in 4th gives moksha (that's from > > > karakamsa > > > > of course). But that is not all I suppose. It is not that easy. > You > > > > also have to take Punya Chakra into consideration, don't you? I > > > > thought also that the Dasa of one's departure has to have Meena > or > > > > Karka Rasi involved (since Meena Rasi gives the understanding > of God > > > > and Karka Rasi yields faith). I think that these points all > > > together > > > > are very important there as well. > > > > > > > > With regards, > > > > Pablo > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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