Simple question about exactly what Mars symbolizes

January 3, 2008

Dear Sundeep

I was interested in your question.

The aim of logic is to defeat the opponent. That is Mars simply.

Logic is not a very intelligent way to proceed in the opinioon of Mercury, who goes immediately to the answer without troubling with the pros and cons.

Jupiter just knows.

I hope that may help

Regards

Gordon

January 3, 2008

Dear Sundeep,

I think you may have misunderstood the nature of Mars. He always wins. He is always wishing to defeat an opponent and that is the nature of logical analysis. It requires a counter proposition to negate in order to arrive at its proof. Mars needs to find the enemy's weakness and defeat him. That is the process of logic. It is not really the point here that we are not always trying to defeat an opponenet, Mars can not do otherwise. Reasoning as a concept does not equate to any single planet. You have to study the planets to learn what they indicate, not try to fit them into your own framework of reference.

Sanskrit will help to understand the matters you are writing about. But Nyaya is a catch-all type of word. It comes from 'ni' meaning down or into and 'aya' from the verb 'i' to go. So the precise understanding of the word has to come more from the tradition. You could read the original Nyaya Sutras. English words like justice and judgment do not always easily translate into the actions of planets. I think it is a better way to proceed if you try to understand the classical statements in Jyotish. If you tell me what Jaimini Sutra you are referring to I might be able to help with that.

Regards

Gordon

January 3, 2008

Dear Gordon,

Thank you for your reply. Your reply gives me an important clue to

the answer. We are not always trying to defeat an opponent. So would

you agree with the more general statement - Mars rules decision

making then, i.e. the quality of being able to reach a judgement.

This would certainly make a lot of sense. Mars with Mercury would

then give a practical thinker (Mars gives the decision making part,

Mercury the reasoning). Mars with Jupiter would give a brilliant

scholar (Mars giving the conclusion making ability, Jupiter the

insight). This would also make sense then that Mars rules Nyaaya

i.e. if you interpret Nyaaya as " judging " rather than " justice "

(justice has a " fairness " component to it that " judging " doesnt

have). Also, would you agree that it is incorrect translation of the

classics to say that Mars rules logic. Logic, in my understanding of

the English word, has more to do with reasoning and less to do with

decision making. It would perhaps make more sense to translate

Jaimini's statement (I dont know Sanskrit, I am just guessing here)

as Mars in Navamsa Lagna makes one irascible but a quick decision

maker.

Thanks,

Sundeep

sohamsa , GWBrennan wrote:

>

> Dear Sundeep

>

> I was interested in your question.

>

> The aim of logic is to defeat the opponent. That is Mars

simply.

>

> Logic is not a very intelligent way to proceed in the opinioon of

Mercury,

> who goes immediately to the answer without troubling with the pros

and cons.

>

> Jupiter just knows.

>

> I hope that may help

>

> Regards

>

> Gordon

>

January 3, 2008

Dear Gordon,

I am puzzled as to exactly why you think I have misunderstood. When

you say " It is not really the point here that were are not always

trying to defeat an opponent " , what I really mean is that I am

lifting the level of abstraction from 2 people having a physical

fight, to two contradictory issues/positions fighting for dominance

in one's mind. I am not disagreeing to the opposition part which is

what seems to be your key contribution, simply generalizing the

domain in which it happens. In the first case Mars makes one of the

fighters win. In the second case Mars makes one make a judgment as

to which position to adopt. When you have to make a decision or a

judgment, it is implicit that there is at least another

contradictory position, otherwise where is the decision/judgment?

As to what is the " process of logic " , I'm afraid here we really

disagree. Logic is not really about finding winning positions - it

is about discovery through consistently applying principles, and

this is not my personal opinion at all rather the common

understanding. When you say to someone " Be logical " it means use

the principles consistently, not find the winning position. Of

course, you may find the winning position by applying the principles

consistently, but then again you may reach an impasse. Witness the

Merriam Webster definition:

Main Entry: log·ic

Pronunciation: \ & #712;lä-jik\

Function: noun

Etymology: Middle English logik, from Anglo-French, from Latin

logica, from Greek logikç, from feminine of logikos of reason, from

logos reason — more at legend

12th century

1 a (1): a science that deals with the principles and criteria of

validity of inference and demonstration : the science of the formal

principles of reasoning (2): a branch or variety of logic <modal

logic> <Boolean logic> (3): a branch of semiotic; especially :

syntactics (4): the formal principles of a branch of knowledge b

(1): a particular mode of reasoning viewed as valid or faulty (2):

relevance propriety c: interrelation or sequence of facts or events

when seen as inevitable or predictable d: the arrangement of circuit

elements (as in a computer) needed for computation; also : the

circuits themselves

2: something that forces a decision apart from or in opposition to

reason <the logic of war>

— lo·gi·cian \lô- & #712;ji-sh & #601;n\ noun

Regarding the Jaimini sutra, I'll get back to you on that..

Thanks

Sundeep

sohamsa , GWBrennan wrote:

>

> Dear Sundeep,

>

> I think you may have misunderstood the nature of Mars. He always

wins. He

> is always wishing to defeat an opponent and that is the nature of

logical

> analysis. It requires a counter proposition to negate in order

to arrive at its

> proof. Mars needs to find the enemy's weakness and defeat him.

That is the

> process of logic. It is not really the point here that we are

not always

> trying to defeat an opponenet, Mars can not do otherwise.

Reasoning as a

> concept does not equate to any single planet. You have to study

the planets to

> learn what they indicate, not try to fit them into your own

framework of

> reference.

>

> Sanskrit will help to understand the matters you are writing

about. But

> Nyaya is a catch-all type of word. It comes from 'ni' meaning

down or into and

> 'aya' from the verb 'i' to go. So the precise understanding of

the word has

> to come more from the tradition. You could read the original

Nyaya Sutras.

> English words like justice and judgment do not always easily

translate into

> the actions of planets. I think it is a better way to proceed if

you try to

> understand the classical statements in Jyotish. If you tell me

what Jaimini

> Sutra you are referring to I might be able to help with that.

>

> Regards

>

> Gordon

>

January 3, 2008

Hare Rama krsna : : Namo Narayana

Dear Sundeep , If i had to put it crudely about mars and mercury , i would simply define mars attributes to logic/intution ( empirical, rational or irrational) , it tends to make a opinion and drives one to a conclusive answer. This in some ways is called tree thinking model or the striated model of thinking, where one tries to find definite origins and ends. it tries to join two points. Mercury by nature is smooth and rhizomatic in its thinking pattern, and would always seek to find more connections , more latent patterns, that may not reach any conclusions. it is always in the 'middle' believing in the 'AND' what more like a student who is always questioning and never satiated. It may also attribute to self-organizing and elasticity in its positioning. it tries to pass through a point. Like todays networked age. The conjunction of two mars and mercury , definitely puts one in an entangle like a Mobius strip. i have LL mercury and mars in 7th house in pisces, and i do get entangled quite often. But the upside is i always am open to things and always open to take decisions. but decisions come in short notice to not only others but to myself as well ! To be honest i am always shocked by my own decisions! Nirvanika

Namah Shivaya On Jan 4, 2008 7:02 AM, vedicastrostudent <vedicastrostudent wrote: